Do you agree that it’s the racing that makes pro cycling dangerous, not the riding? 🤔Do you feel there have been more crashes this year? What can be done to reduce them? Let us know your opinions in the comments! 👇
The least controversial change would be to make the handling less jittery. Minimum bar width relative to shoulder width, maximum stem length, no turn-in of brake levers.
As an organiser of club races we are getting loads of crashes over the past 3 years as well. We were discussing at are monthly meeting and some of the guys have put it down to people training on zwift instead of actually riding a bike, so they have the fitness to be fast but not the bike handling. Personally I have noticed that the guys who rode CX and XC over winter tend to be less accident prone than those who sit on zwift for months. I also think the raise of indoor training among the common cyclists has made people faster than ever, as Cat D club races are nearly as fast as Cat2 races 8 or so years ago, so more speed means more injuries and more crashes. Obviously pros are a totally different level all together but the above could still be a factor.
Hmm, perhaps a couple of (mandatory?) early season non-race bunch rides for everyone to blow out the winter cobwebs? Also an opportunity for club members to reconnect socially.
Hi, watched this last weekend and then went for a ride... oh dear had an accident and broke collar bone again! Previously broken some 13 years ago and mostly held together with Mecanno! However turned 60 yesterday and drinking coffee and watching GCN videos to inspire and cheer me up!!! Thanks to all at GCN!!! ❤️❤️❤️👏👏👏🖖😙
No rain, race split to pieces earlier so fewer riders squeezing into the same rut, fatter tyres with lower pressures. By contrast, some other races have more riders squeezing into same piece of road as fewer riders dropped on normal roads
@@gcn U-turns! Defenitely need more U-turns in races. (I'm half joking, I feel like it kinda ruined the shot into arenberg but if it's safer for riders I'm all for it.)
Speed highly correlates to the severity of the injures. And the severity of injuries imo is what’s making it seem that crashes are more and worse than ever. The entire peloton could fail to clip out at a traffic light and all fall over, no one would be having the discussion is there’s more crashes lately.
Interestingly I was once present when a you woman failed to clip out , fell sideways stationary and broke her forearm, 80 degree angle, bloody awful, fortunately I was cycling with a doctor!
If the whole peloton fails to unclip and falls over at lights, we will certainly be talking about it! 🤣 You make a good point though, speed will have a big affect on crashes 💨
Exactly. Recalling 'A' level physics from 1972. Kinetic energy = 0.5mv(2). From 50kph to 70 kph that's 2,500 : 4900 ratio - almost double the energy involved in an impact for 40% increase in velocity. And it is velocity, not simply speed. Velocity has a dimension of direction with mass providing inertia against turning. You can scrub speed by hitting brakes but there's still residual inertia pushing you forward or resisting turning. Oddly, my three worst crashes were at slow speed. Diesel patch on knobbly tar on the filter of what is now Royal Mint Court and East Smithfield at Tower Bridge took me straight down in a millisecond - painful and bloody! Testing how far I could lean and flip round a corner on a Look carbon fibre bike at Earls Court Cycle Show maybe 20 years ago - the little test track was on polished concrete. Again, went down in a millisecond and detached my shoulder blade - painful! 1989, just moved into new house, on bike, left house, turned right into next road, tiny sandy gravel like ball bearings, down in a millisecond - painful, still have scars on right elbow and rear gear hangar bent so had to change rear mech to one that bolted through the hanger rather than onto it (Simplex from Campag 980 and still have both mechs in a box)
Two thoughts… 1. My own worst recent crash when I was hit by a rider who is mainly triathlete - lack of experience riding in a group? 2. Disks allow/encourage later braking - less margin for error
Agreed on discs. I'll also say that I feel that some riders on discs are way too heavy on the pull, and end up over the bars, bringing down a bunch of people around them
Road disc + race tires = lock up crashes. IYKYK. Ive been racing road since 1997. Ive never seen so many crashes in local races, bunches, training etc as now.
Good main talking point. What strikes me is that just a few years ago, the peloton was going fast in a spearhead shape where more riders could see what‘s ahead. Now the peloton is going fast as a rectangular block and in sprint stages it‘s like two sports happening at once with the GC teams trying to get past the 3k mark and the sprinter teams doing their boxing match.
There have always been those battles within battles during road racing, it's interesting that you feel it's getting bigger 👀 What can be done to make the sport safer?
i raced as a second and first cat in the 80s and 90s and have just returned to doing a bit more cycling as my son has taken up the sport. I have noticed that there is less communication between the riders. Years ago as a spectator you could here the peloton coming some times before you saw them now i feel that they tend to be less communication going on. It could also be because my hearing is not as good as it used to be....
What happened to the giant, face covering, awkward looking microphones? Happy to see Si and Dan’s happy faces again. The sound seems as good as ever.And why didn’t they appear in any of the other shows. Perhaps the two oldest presenters have failing voices. Cheers guys. Keep up the great work. Loved the show for many years now.
Here’s my theory. They eat more carbs to go faster, and by the time there’s 20km left, the combo of mental and muscular fatigue to maintain that speed, plus possible carb crash from all the food, leads to more mistakes. Sports science has increased over the years but the human body takes centuries to evolve, it’s not like reaction time and dexterity has increased across the board in the peloton.
Does the increase follow the use of disc brakes? More confidence in braking quicker stopping times, less time to react for the group with a quick touch.
@@gcn Possibly allow riders to be better when on their own, flipping around bends, changing speed and direction like a fly but... no so good in a group
I'm listening to you both talk about, "Why are there so many crashes now?" Really simple answer. You. YOU. A week ago you were excitedly cycling the 'cobbled hell of the north' and, e.g. looking at a corner where a 10 m wide road drops down to a 2.5 m wide lane. And say, "Hi!" to volunteers repairing missing cobbles. And then you come on here and wail, "What has gone wrong?" You.
I think it’s a combination of higher speeds, more riders surviving further into the race, most of all bikes have become stiffer, the slightest bump in a corner the bike jumps and loses grip
Dan I am looking forward to your new series of videos. I am starting to be more focused on my health and fitness while still managing a family and nursing career. I very recently got my first road bike (Trek Domane), I’ve ridden mountain bikes for years). I hope you’ll provide me with some inspiration and tips. I’m over 50 and wanting to shed some weight, build endurance and strength.
Higher speed descents and later braking due to disc brakes if you look most crashes are when they loose the front!!. Until abs is developed it won't stop.
Dan that is a BRILLIANT idea to cap the team rider numbers, youd have to make certain there are no "partner teams" owned by the same rich investor where team xyz ends up basically just being a support solely for team zxy.
Grabby disc brakes?!? Disc brakes’ modulation can vary if the rotors are cold or hot. IMO that variance and the ability to apply a lot of braking force with very little effort can make misjudgment a distinct possibility, especially when fatigue is present.
Perhaps another avenue to prevent crashes is limiting external distractions for riders ... team radios would be a place to start. Have "dark zones" where radio silence is required other than emergencies when the course gets tougher so riders can focus.
On swimming. Our children did it with son a butterfly specialist. Far more serious training for children than cycling. Ours didn't do the ten sessions a week that the really serious ones did. Top swimmers have a body shape: long torso, short legs, long arms, big hands and feet, hyper flex ankles to get feet working like a diver's flippers, and be big, preferably really big as the 'aero' difference between a small person's head and shoulders is not much greater than for a big person's head and shoulders. No matter how much you train, you cannot exceed your body shape limitations whereas cycling has different types of event for different types of bodies. The hours of training give a feel for the water and efficiency that most of us can't match. One particular feature of swimming - it's far more sociable than cycling as you're with friends in a noisy environment while waiting for your (usually) short event. More sociable than football too - children turn up, coach rants at them, play match while parents rant at them, go home - barely any interaction socially at all and everyone is a rival for a place in the team. Granddaughter is loving Rugby Tots but, so far, doesn't like swimming, much to son's disappointment. The boys are autistic which might help with cycling (as in pre-boom era attitudes) but still too locked in to get them started. Also, because they live in relatively remote area, there's nowhere for children to ride with abandon
Here's what (free) ChatGPT had to say about it: "Reducing crashes in professional cycling races requires a multi-faceted approach addressing various factors contributing to accidents. Here are some plausible solutions: 1. **Improved Infrastructure and Course Design:** - Ensuring race routes are designed with safety in mind, avoiding hazardous road conditions, tight corners, and dangerous descents. - Implementing better road surface maintenance to minimize risks of crashes due to potholes, uneven surfaces, or debris. 2. **Safety Regulations and Enforcement:** - Enforcing strict regulations regarding race conduct, such as penalizing dangerous riding behaviors like sudden swerving or blocking. - Implementing stricter controls on the use of certain equipment or tactics that may increase crash risk, such as disc brakes or overly aggressive riding styles. 3. **Rider Education and Training:** - Providing comprehensive safety training for riders, including techniques for safe descending, group riding, and navigating challenging road conditions. - Emphasizing the importance of respecting fellow riders and adhering to race rules and regulations. 4. **Technology and Innovation:** - Incorporating advanced safety technologies into bicycles and equipment, such as collision detection systems or improved helmet designs. - Developing better communication systems between riders and race officials to quickly relay safety warnings or course updates. 5. **Medical Support and Emergency Preparedness:** - Ensuring adequate medical personnel and resources are available at races to promptly respond to accidents and provide necessary care. - Implementing protocols for quick and efficient evacuation of injured riders from the race course. 6. **Increased Focus on Rider Welfare:** - Prioritizing rider welfare over competitive pressure, including provisions for adequate rest periods, reduced race distances in extreme weather conditions, and regular health screenings. - Encouraging a culture of transparency where riders feel comfortable reporting unsafe conditions or concerns about their own well-being. 7. **Collaboration with Stakeholders:** - Collaboration between race organizers, teams, riders, and governing bodies to collectively address safety issues and implement effective solutions. - Soliciting feedback from riders and teams to identify specific areas for improvement and adapting race policies accordingly. By implementing a combination of these measures, it's possible to significantly reduce the frequency and severity of crashes in professional cycling races, creating a safer environment for riders while maintaining the excitement and competitiveness of the sport."
Pertaining to crashing, i was thinking about NASCAR and how there is limit to how much of a problem you can have with your car and still be allowed to race, so in cycling there could be increased incentives not to crash since you would be more likely to be pulled from the race instead of just getting a new bike resuming. Perhaps a no bike change rule? Or automatic DQ if you crash. I know it would be harsh but may be a new necessary understanding of the phrase“that’s just racing”.
I think something as simple as you can't draft cars. It blows my mind how you can crash, get a draft of your team car, then draft support cars. They aren't in the race. They aren't part of the race. No rider should be able to draft a car. Actually like your idea of no bike change for classics. They should go back to fully unsupported. Have people on the side of the road if needed, a medic car and commisere and cameras. Thats it. Make it a true classic. Heck even no radios. That said...what happens when you crash with a spectator?
Most crashes seem to happen in the peloton; restrict drafting to a single pace line or restrict the number of riders across the road (with further reductions for narrow road widths).
Caption comment: “When you mix cycling, adrenaline, and a dash of chaos, you get the post-race aftermath: a cyclist who looks like they just survived a wild Coke and Mentos experiment! 🚴♂️💥🥤”
I got into road cycling from mtb after being inspired by Martyn’s road bike party. Therefor I was hugely focussed on bike handling/ tricks etc…. As I’ve gone on to focus on riding and racing I can’t count the number of times I’ve avoided crashes that were inevitable for most others. This isn’t a brag, it was luck that was my path and I’m no where near the rider I was 10 years ago, I’ve also never been fast! But bike handling is the absolute most important thing for being safe. Even for casual riders, if you can hop a kerb without thinking about it, you’ll be so so so much safer. This probably applies even more to casual riders than pro’s as you’re avoiding cars not just riders!
@GCN TH-cam Channel Peter Attia MD did a video about footwear and the specialist guest said that the highest correlation between muscle strength and life expectancy is toes. She said that toes are main helpers of balance so avoiding falling. I heard elsewhere that the most common serious injury for the elderly in Finland is falling at home and breaking the hip bones. In Finland the average life expectancy of the elderly with broken hips is only one year. I guess you cannot move and lose strength fast when you have a broken hip.
The Keirin riders wear body armour funnily enough. Their uniforms look so clean and simple. Though, they also seem to allow elbow and shoulder bumping each other, so idk if they're the highest example of safety, lol.
MVDP has only done less "road" racing this year than any previous Paris Roubaix winner but he has done a fair amount of CX racing and defended his world championship.
Professional golf also limited head size and golf ball design to prevent pros from hitting balls too far and needing to increase course length to compensate. So working on bike design to slow peloton down would work
This year's falls have also been the subject of many times in the Estonian media. One possible solution was proposed by Jaan Kirsipuu to give up radio communication. Because now the team manager tells the radio when to be in position and the mindless search for position begins. It is possible that if the competitor himself had to read the progress of the competition, he would not act so thoughtlessly.
Watching the discussion about safety, I really saw you covering each and every point I wanted to mention here in the comments and my arguments slipping away, but I think you've forgotten route choice and track safety. These routes sure are scouted and test-ridden but we still have corners where you slide of the road and end up in a concrete block just by the side of it - or you just make races 100% hillclimbs, that could work, too! Not saying they should do silly things like the Arenberg forest corner in every race but there is room for improvement.
@@gcnI find it odd that every traffic sign gets padded but you can totally drop 100 feet off a mountain or a bridge when you misjudge a single corner on a descent.
I think distraction can be a great factor of crashes. The UCI should have the riders do at least one event every season where head units and earphones are prohibited, with team cars reduced to minimum assistance. Then analyse the data, and see if it's beneficial or not. From a racing standpoint, it should be interesting, and from a safety perspective, we should have riders more focused on what's directly ahead of their eyes and wheels.
#captioncompetition Dan is obviously this weeks winner. Such style and grace displayed in his quick-witted caption. Obviously with no preparation what so ever.
Take power meters, Garmins and radios of all pro riders to stop screen staring and verbal distractions. This would have a positive safety effect and go back to rim brakes as disc braking racers are braking later and harder into corners.
The modern peloton seems to be more tightly packed than “back in the day”. I recently watched a video of the 1989 Tour de France and the riders appeared to give each other more space, which probably resulted in fewer touched wheels and clashed handlebars. Perhaps the modern peloton just needs to spread out a bit!
I'm glad you did not mentioning doping as a reason for faster speed as a reason for the increasing trend in accidents, because this would be plainly ridiculous to imagine...
Speed increase can also be aligned to technology. Aero everything, including helmets and clothing. But descending, with disc brakes and better tyres, people can descend quicker
Late to the party, but I think Simon and Dan hit on the factors. Speed is undoubtedly a major contributing factor to crash frequency and severity. To slow the speed, set a minimum bar width, maximum wheel depth, restrictions on helmet size/shape, maximum stack height etc. More climbing early in races to break up the peloton. Reduce the field sizes by reducing the number of riders and/or the number of teams. As far as experience, set a minimum number of UCI racing days a domestic pro rider has to have to be able to race at a pro-continental level and another minimum of pro-continental racing days to be able to race world tour. A similar system is used in the US to move from Cat 5 to 4 for exactly the same reason - lack of skill but lots of fitness is a disaster. All of these things are very doable, it just takes political will.
Caption competition: People would try anything to get their bike on holiday. However, after some laxatives, this was the best finde during a rectal search by security.
To slow the peleton down, just outfit every bike with that Airhub front wheel that Andre Greipel used to promote to be able to cycle with his less fit/fast family members. Instant speed reduction.
it's not only higher speed, but that combined with so many riders on the front row in dangerous descents. Then, somebody will be sucker who has to take the wrong line going in for the apex. Look back at the big crash in Bask country last week; one is losing grip and goes off the road, and a dozen more go off the road also instead of holding the corner...
If you are descending in a fast Peleton around corners there are always going to be some riders not in the optimum riding line for those corners....ie no space to move.
Based on my wife's experience, for swimmers is mostly the fact that you never see the sun. 4am morning practice before the sun rises, and not getting home until it's pitch black and having to avoid coyotes or sleep in the car due to said coyotes.
Am I the only one who is distracted from the two "googly eyes" rings from the tattooed guy in the caption competition foto? Plus: great caption Mr. Lloyd
#CaptionCompetition Gut check: While recognized as a pioneer for optimizing his gut health for cycling, Jenthe Biermans wondered if they couldn’t fit that bike into a gel cap for easier insertion.
To make racing safer, require kids’ training wheels to be attached to the back wheel. The bikes would not be as tippy or likely to topple over. More importantly, the space the training wheels adds would increase the distance between riders resulting in less riders being able to fit side by side across the road. Surely this would lead to less crashes.
I'd love this discussion on the GCN Racing channel. 12+ minutes talking about racing seems lengthy for a topic that doesn't apply to most of your audience. Enjoy your racing from the comfort of your seats in your home.
HI guys. Your comment with regard to riders taking responsibility for their own safety and level of competence is something I have to agree with. I remember hearing David Millar say that there are some incredible bike-acrobats in the pro-peloton, but there just happen to also be quite a lot of complete muppets. I also read that Lance Armstrong in his early pro days would crash quite a lot, until he stopped racing for a while went away and practiced his bike handling skills. After that, he didn't crash nearly as much. Makes sense.
A good approach could be rising weight limit and forcing teams to install cameras and sensors for the media feeds, as in F1 but adapted and at scale. That would make bikes heavier and would make it somewhat safer
Thanks for all you do GCN! By the way, the Pakgo EX looks amazing. That's something I have been searching for months now. I think that's my answer to my travel and cycle overseas goals. Cheers!
Whilst I want to believe it, I’ve heard the justification of “why is everyone going so fast now?” Several times before… nutrition, training, intensity, tech. Unfortunately every time before it’s usually ended up in “someone figured out how to cheat the doping tests”
I'd be interested to see the data on the number and gravity of incidents since disc brakes. The number of crashes involving locking up wheels seems likely to me. I'm not anti-disc before the avalanche of criticism begins!!!!
regarding the possible increase in crashs' it could well be due to the narrow bars, certainly the adopted time trial position & the sheer increase in the peloton speed, so in order to keep up they are all tucked in as much as poss due to the high intensity leaving no room for error, even our own home town races the speed has increased so the pro elite peloton must be like a train, overall speed has certainly increased.
The crash in the tour de flanders, may not be possible to prevent BUT just filling the dish with some hay, would have reduces the injuries massively. And I think this is the way to go, prevent all crash will possibly make the sport less interesting. Preventing severe injuries is the way to go.
A couple of thoughts on speed and crashes. In the old days there was a "Patron" who kept things clam and decided when they could race. Obviously that lead to slower races because they would take it easy for the first 150km! Speed might not make crashes more likely but the consequences, in terms of injury, could be worse. I've noticed that riders are still riding on pavements/verges where the spectators belong so the risk of "3rd party" craashes is increased. Afew years ago the UCI tried to ban it but the riders seeem to have returned to their evil ways. If the UCI got tough over that then some crashes might be avoided. Only chucking offenders off the race would be effective though as any fines are insignificant in the millions of (pick a currency) involved. Dan, when you ride too much you can "bunny hop" the pot-holes. Dan Dan, get fit yes but please please don't do a James Hunt, we can't bear to lose you.
Just from experience, in the pack in the last part of the race becomes let's say a bit nasty, elbows, pushing & shoving, and with the amount of money involved and team orders the stakes are higher.
Increased pack size. road furniture forced to ride in horrible weather. Racers forced to ride on dangerous downhill at a break neck pace no Union for the racers riders are being forced to ride when they’re already injured the result is or crashes and more severe injuries. It’s not a mystery.
I've been enjoying listening to the show on Spotify and I'm constantly getting looks as I am always laughing! And then I want to see the visuals, so watch on TH-cam as well!
it is quite interesting that the same topic was huge in alpine skiing this winter, as there also had been crashes of many big names... is there something that can relate this? big changes in technic and equipment too there...
Did anyone see the video of the lady throwing her hat ar Van der Poel's wheels during Paris-RoubIx? It appeared to be an attempt to cause him to crash or to have a mechanical failure.
I wonder if disc breaks are playing a part in this. When an incident starts, a panic snatch of the front break easily locks the wheel and takes you down. Rim breaks didn’t do this as easily. Love the channel.
Do you agree that it’s the racing that makes pro cycling dangerous, not the riding? 🤔Do you feel there have been more crashes this year? What can be done to reduce them? Let us know your opinions in the comments! 👇
I have no comments for that. I just woke up.
@homerdummy5639 I don't understand how that would help.
The least controversial change would be to make the handling less jittery. Minimum bar width relative to shoulder width, maximum stem length, no turn-in of brake levers.
Number plates??
If the general cycling public isn’t having more crashes year over year, then that’s your answer that it’s racing, not riding
As an organiser of club races we are getting loads of crashes over the past 3 years as well. We were discussing at are monthly meeting and some of the guys have put it down to people training on zwift instead of actually riding a bike, so they have the fitness to be fast but not the bike handling.
Personally I have noticed that the guys who rode CX and XC over winter tend to be less accident prone than those who sit on zwift for months. I also think the raise of indoor training among the common cyclists has made people faster than ever, as Cat D club races are nearly as fast as Cat2 races 8 or so years ago, so more speed means more injuries and more crashes.
Obviously pros are a totally different level all together but the above could still be a factor.
Yeah, I think that is becoming more relevant; riders being fitter, faster than ever, but the skills haven't kept up.....
Relevant point.....however, explain how Wout, Remco, Jonas, and Primoz crashed out? Some of the best handlers in the sport listed there.
I cycle off road , bridle Lane stuff , and indoor cycle , and it definitely takes riding a couple of times a week outdoors to get my confidence up
This is the reason I am avoiding fondos. To many riders with zero bunch skills but are strong.
Hmm, perhaps a couple of (mandatory?) early season non-race bunch rides for everyone to blow out the winter cobwebs? Also an opportunity for club members to reconnect socially.
Hi, watched this last weekend and then went for a ride... oh dear had an accident and broke collar bone again! Previously broken some 13 years ago and mostly held together with Mecanno! However turned 60 yesterday and drinking coffee and watching GCN videos to inspire and cheer me up!!! Thanks to all at GCN!!! ❤️❤️❤️👏👏👏🖖😙
The irony is that Paris-Roubaix was probably the least crashy in history. Yet on regular roads, no-one can seem to stay rubber side down
There was certainly less crashes this year 👀 Why do you think that is?
@@gcn No rain and wet cobblestones like on Flanders.
No rain, race split to pieces earlier so fewer riders squeezing into the same rut, fatter tyres with lower pressures. By contrast, some other races have more riders squeezing into same piece of road as fewer riders dropped on normal roads
@@gcnstarted using oversized mics, and everyone starts crashing, the mics go away and the races become crash free... coincidence? 🤔🤔🤔
@@gcn U-turns! Defenitely need more U-turns in races. (I'm half joking, I feel like it kinda ruined the shot into arenberg but if it's safer for riders I'm all for it.)
Audio is wonderful this week, whole production just seems way, way, better... somehow. :)
Glad you enjoyed it! We're always looking to improve 🙌
@@gcn - Using an overhead, now? It doesn't sound like a 416. Rode?
Speed highly correlates to the severity of the injures. And the severity of injuries imo is what’s making it seem that crashes are more and worse than ever. The entire peloton could fail to clip out at a traffic light and all fall over, no one would be having the discussion is there’s more crashes lately.
Ok that mental image made my day haha
Interestingly I was once present when a you woman failed to clip out , fell sideways stationary and broke her forearm, 80 degree angle, bloody awful, fortunately I was cycling with a doctor!
If the whole peloton fails to unclip and falls over at lights, we will certainly be talking about it! 🤣 You make a good point though, speed will have a big affect on crashes 💨
we would solve that easily - remove the traffic lights from races ;)
Exactly. Recalling 'A' level physics from 1972. Kinetic energy = 0.5mv(2). From 50kph to 70 kph that's 2,500 : 4900 ratio - almost double the energy involved in an impact for 40% increase in velocity. And it is velocity, not simply speed. Velocity has a dimension of direction with mass providing inertia against turning. You can scrub speed by hitting brakes but there's still residual inertia pushing you forward or resisting turning.
Oddly, my three worst crashes were at slow speed. Diesel patch on knobbly tar on the filter of what is now Royal Mint Court and East Smithfield at Tower Bridge took me straight down in a millisecond - painful and bloody! Testing how far I could lean and flip round a corner on a Look carbon fibre bike at Earls Court Cycle Show maybe 20 years ago - the little test track was on polished concrete. Again, went down in a millisecond and detached my shoulder blade - painful! 1989, just moved into new house, on bike, left house, turned right into next road, tiny sandy gravel like ball bearings, down in a millisecond - painful, still have scars on right elbow and rear gear hangar bent so had to change rear mech to one that bolted through the hanger rather than onto it (Simplex from Campag 980 and still have both mechs in a box)
Two thoughts…
1. My own worst recent crash when I was hit by a rider who is mainly triathlete - lack of experience riding in a group?
2. Disks allow/encourage later braking - less margin for error
Could be a good point about disks. Also wider grippier tyres allow later braking
Agreed on discs. I'll also say that I feel that some riders on discs are way too heavy on the pull, and end up over the bars, bringing down a bunch of people around them
I like what Sepp Kuss said, "Maybe after this scare, people will give more space and more respect and race in a safer way."
No. They won't - beyond a race or two
1. Safer race courses (runouts on sharp corners, e.g.)
2. Smaller peloton
3. Stricter rules and/or harsher punishments of rider to rider interactions on course
Thank you so much for ditching the distracting microphones!!! I can still hear you loud and clear with great definition!!
We listened 🙌 Thanks for all the feedback, It's good to try new things
Bring the microphones back
I feel like Dan deserves the waterbottle for that one
Exactly... There cannot be said norhing funnier 😂
Road disc + race tires = lock up crashes. IYKYK.
Ive been racing road since 1997. Ive never seen so many crashes in local races, bunches, training etc as now.
Good main talking point. What strikes me is that just a few years ago, the peloton was going fast in a spearhead shape where more riders could see what‘s ahead. Now the peloton is going fast as a rectangular block and in sprint stages it‘s like two sports happening at once with the GC teams trying to get past the 3k mark and the sprinter teams doing their boxing match.
There have always been those battles within battles during road racing, it's interesting that you feel it's getting bigger 👀 What can be done to make the sport safer?
i raced as a second and first cat in the 80s and 90s and have just returned to doing a bit more cycling as my son has taken up the sport. I have noticed that there is less communication between the riders. Years ago as a spectator you could here the peloton coming some times before you saw them now i feel that they tend to be less communication going on. It could also be because my hearing is not as good as it used to be....
Just to say a big thank you to all GCN. The GCN show is one those weekly gems I always look forward to.
Loving the sound of Dan’s new series 👍❤️
What happened to the giant, face covering, awkward looking microphones? Happy to see Si and Dan’s happy faces again. The sound seems as good as ever.And why didn’t they appear in any of the other shows. Perhaps the two oldest presenters have failing voices. Cheers guys. Keep up the great work. Loved the show for many years now.
Caption competition "Maybe 120g of carbs an hour was a bit much after all"
YES!!!! NO MICROPHONES!!!!
The people have spoken 🤣
Here’s my theory. They eat more carbs to go faster, and by the time there’s 20km left, the combo of mental and muscular fatigue to maintain that speed, plus possible carb crash from all the food, leads to more mistakes. Sports science has increased over the years but the human body takes centuries to evolve, it’s not like reaction time and dexterity has increased across the board in the peloton.
Does the increase follow the use of disc brakes? More confidence in braking quicker stopping times, less time to react for the group with a quick touch.
Interesting! Have disc bakes made us worse bike handlers? 👀
@@gcn Possibly allow riders to be better when on their own, flipping around bends, changing speed and direction like a fly but... no so good in a group
@@gcn instinctively snatching the brakes could be more of a problem with discs?
Comment competition . What a comment from Dan 😂💪👍
I'm listening to you both talk about, "Why are there so many crashes now?" Really simple answer. You. YOU.
A week ago you were excitedly cycling the 'cobbled hell of the north' and, e.g. looking at a corner where a 10 m wide road drops down to a 2.5 m wide lane. And say, "Hi!" to volunteers repairing missing cobbles. And then you come on here and wail, "What has gone wrong?" You.
I think it’s a combination of higher speeds, more riders surviving further into the race, most of all bikes have become stiffer, the slightest bump in a corner the bike jumps and loses grip
Surely the obvious solution is to limit chainring size, still keep the aero gains but make pushing downhill and on the flat less quick.
That's not going to be a popular choice 👀
Dan I am looking forward to your new series of videos. I am starting to be more focused on my health and fitness while still managing a family and nursing career. I very recently got my first road bike (Trek Domane), I’ve ridden mountain bikes for years). I hope you’ll provide me with some inspiration and tips. I’m over 50 and wanting to shed some weight, build endurance and strength.
Higher speed descents and later braking due to disc brakes if you look most crashes are when they loose the front!!. Until abs is developed it won't stop.
Do you think ABS is coming to bikes?
@gcn yes I think it has 2 its a sure fire way of preventing front wheel lock ups!!
Dan that is a BRILLIANT idea to cap the team rider numbers, youd have to make certain there are no "partner teams" owned by the same rich investor where team xyz ends up basically just being a support solely for team zxy.
Just don't have more teams to keep the total number of riders the same.
Grabby disc brakes?!?
Disc brakes’ modulation can vary if the rotors are cold or hot. IMO that variance and the ability to apply a lot of braking force with very little effort can make misjudgment a distinct possibility, especially when fatigue is present.
What about faster braking due to discs? That would further reduce time to react.
😅
Disc brakes have smaller brake surface, is that causing problems at the limit?
Perhaps another avenue to prevent crashes is limiting external distractions for riders ... team radios would be a place to start. Have "dark zones" where radio silence is required other than emergencies when the course gets tougher so riders can focus.
Thank you for listening to feedback and removing those mics, sounds and looks so much better.
We're always listening to the fans. We love moving forward but we want to do it in the right way. Great to hear you stuck with us 🙌
Sadly it is much more difficult to watch all these great races this year so hard to answer the question of more crashes! Bring back GCN+.
We miss GCN+ too. We hope you are still finding a way to watch the racing though 👀
On swimming. Our children did it with son a butterfly specialist. Far more serious training for children than cycling. Ours didn't do the ten sessions a week that the really serious ones did. Top swimmers have a body shape: long torso, short legs, long arms, big hands and feet, hyper flex ankles to get feet working like a diver's flippers, and be big, preferably really big as the 'aero' difference between a small person's head and shoulders is not much greater than for a big person's head and shoulders. No matter how much you train, you cannot exceed your body shape limitations whereas cycling has different types of event for different types of bodies. The hours of training give a feel for the water and efficiency that most of us can't match. One particular feature of swimming - it's far more sociable than cycling as you're with friends in a noisy environment while waiting for your (usually) short event. More sociable than football too - children turn up, coach rants at them, play match while parents rant at them, go home - barely any interaction socially at all and everyone is a rival for a place in the team. Granddaughter is loving Rugby Tots but, so far, doesn't like swimming, much to son's disappointment. The boys are autistic which might help with cycling (as in pre-boom era attitudes) but still too locked in to get them started. Also, because they live in relatively remote area, there's nowhere for children to ride with abandon
Here is an idea for stopping the crashes- get rid of the pockets on jersey so that means they can’t go as hard because you would run out of energy 👍
....and also stop the reaching back so being in _total_ control of bike more often.
Here's what (free) ChatGPT had to say about it:
"Reducing crashes in professional cycling races requires a multi-faceted approach addressing various factors contributing to accidents. Here are some plausible solutions:
1. **Improved Infrastructure and Course Design:**
- Ensuring race routes are designed with safety in mind, avoiding hazardous road conditions, tight corners, and dangerous descents.
- Implementing better road surface maintenance to minimize risks of crashes due to potholes, uneven surfaces, or debris.
2. **Safety Regulations and Enforcement:**
- Enforcing strict regulations regarding race conduct, such as penalizing dangerous riding behaviors like sudden swerving or blocking.
- Implementing stricter controls on the use of certain equipment or tactics that may increase crash risk, such as disc brakes or overly aggressive riding styles.
3. **Rider Education and Training:**
- Providing comprehensive safety training for riders, including techniques for safe descending, group riding, and navigating challenging road conditions.
- Emphasizing the importance of respecting fellow riders and adhering to race rules and regulations.
4. **Technology and Innovation:**
- Incorporating advanced safety technologies into bicycles and equipment, such as collision detection systems or improved helmet designs.
- Developing better communication systems between riders and race officials to quickly relay safety warnings or course updates.
5. **Medical Support and Emergency Preparedness:**
- Ensuring adequate medical personnel and resources are available at races to promptly respond to accidents and provide necessary care.
- Implementing protocols for quick and efficient evacuation of injured riders from the race course.
6. **Increased Focus on Rider Welfare:**
- Prioritizing rider welfare over competitive pressure, including provisions for adequate rest periods, reduced race distances in extreme weather conditions, and regular health screenings.
- Encouraging a culture of transparency where riders feel comfortable reporting unsafe conditions or concerns about their own well-being.
7. **Collaboration with Stakeholders:**
- Collaboration between race organizers, teams, riders, and governing bodies to collectively address safety issues and implement effective solutions.
- Soliciting feedback from riders and teams to identify specific areas for improvement and adapting race policies accordingly.
By implementing a combination of these measures, it's possible to significantly reduce the frequency and severity of crashes in professional cycling races, creating a safer environment for riders while maintaining the excitement and competitiveness of the sport."
Pertaining to crashing, i was thinking about NASCAR and how there is limit to how much of a problem you can have with your car and still be allowed to race, so in cycling there could be increased incentives not to crash since you would be more likely to be pulled from the race instead of just getting a new bike resuming. Perhaps a no bike change rule? Or automatic DQ if you crash. I know it would be harsh but may be a new necessary understanding of the phrase“that’s just racing”.
interesting...
I think something as simple as you can't draft cars. It blows my mind how you can crash, get a draft of your team car, then draft support cars. They aren't in the race. They aren't part of the race. No rider should be able to draft a car.
Actually like your idea of no bike change for classics. They should go back to fully unsupported. Have people on the side of the road if needed, a medic car and commisere and cameras. Thats it.
Make it a true classic. Heck even no radios.
That said...what happens when you crash with a spectator?
Most crashes seem to happen in the peloton; restrict drafting to a single pace line or restrict the number of riders across the road (with further reductions for narrow road widths).
It took me 34:28 to finally notice that the huge mics disappeared! I guess I wouldn't get the scout's perceptivity batch 😂
Ah-ha, so they weren't that obvious before after all!
Caption comment: “When you mix cycling, adrenaline, and a dash of chaos, you get the post-race aftermath: a cyclist who looks like they just survived a wild Coke and Mentos experiment! 🚴♂️💥🥤”
I got into road cycling from mtb after being inspired by Martyn’s road bike party. Therefor I was hugely focussed on bike handling/ tricks etc…. As I’ve gone on to focus on riding and racing I can’t count the number of times I’ve avoided crashes that were inevitable for most others. This isn’t a brag, it was luck that was my path and I’m no where near the rider I was 10 years ago, I’ve also never been fast! But bike handling is the absolute most important thing for being safe. Even for casual riders, if you can hop a kerb without thinking about it, you’ll be so so so much safer. This probably applies even more to casual riders than pro’s as you’re avoiding cars not just riders!
@GCN TH-cam Channel Peter Attia MD did a video about footwear and the specialist guest said that the highest correlation between muscle strength and life expectancy is toes. She said that toes are main helpers of balance so avoiding falling. I heard elsewhere that the most common serious injury for the elderly in Finland is falling at home and breaking the hip bones. In Finland the average life expectancy of the elderly with broken hips is only one year. I guess you cannot move and lose strength fast when you have a broken hip.
It’s a great day! The mics have gone 🎉 so much more interaction. Great show as always!
We listened and responded! We appreciate all the feedback we've had on the mics 🙌
The Keirin riders wear body armour funnily enough. Their uniforms look so clean and simple. Though, they also seem to allow elbow and shoulder bumping each other, so idk if they're the highest example of safety, lol.
Caption: "DOCTOR, I JUST GAVE BIRTH TO A BIKE" "Congrats, it's a Trek"
But it identifies as a Colnago!!!
Actually Arkea have Bianchi bikes
Thanks for removing the mics!
MVDP has only done less "road" racing this year than any previous Paris Roubaix winner but he has done a fair amount of CX racing and defended his world championship.
Professional golf also limited head size and golf ball design to prevent pros from hitting balls too far and needing to increase course length to compensate. So working on bike design to slow peloton down would work
This year's falls have also been the subject of many times in the Estonian media. One possible solution was proposed by Jaan Kirsipuu to give up radio communication. Because now the team manager tells the radio when to be in position and the mindless search for position begins. It is possible that if the competitor himself had to read the progress of the competition, he would not act so thoughtlessly.
Watching the discussion about safety, I really saw you covering each and every point I wanted to mention here in the comments and my arguments slipping away, but I think you've forgotten route choice and track safety. These routes sure are scouted and test-ridden but we still have corners where you slide of the road and end up in a concrete block just by the side of it - or you just make races 100% hillclimbs, that could work, too! Not saying they should do silly things like the Arenberg forest corner in every race but there is room for improvement.
We can certainly make the sport a bit safer, route choice plays a big factor in this 👀
@@gcnI find it odd that every traffic sign gets padded but you can totally drop 100 feet off a mountain or a bridge when you misjudge a single corner on a descent.
A bike is ridden with balance. The balance is in your ear. Putting people 6'4" tall (Phinney) on a 54cm bike is insanity.
I'm afraid, Dan's comment on this week pic is unbeatable 😂
UCI World Tour should be rebranded to Formula Eurobike. Everyone should use Eurobikes in basic specification. It will reduce both: speed and costs ;)
Also, give us mere mortals an actual comparison of our capabilities to the ones of the pros 😅
@@dtsybulskyi no dont lol...currently i think the only thing holding me back from being a pro is a 25k setup ;-) Dont ruin my delusion
Hahahaha don't tell them about the magic of the eurobike shhhh 🤫
I think distraction can be a great factor of crashes. The UCI should have the riders do at least one event every season where head units and earphones are prohibited, with team cars reduced to minimum assistance. Then analyse the data, and see if it's beneficial or not. From a racing standpoint, it should be interesting, and from a safety perspective, we should have riders more focused on what's directly ahead of their eyes and wheels.
hi! thanks for the comment. That would certainly bring a bit more spontaneity into racing!
#captioncompetition Dan is obviously this weeks winner. Such style and grace displayed in his quick-witted caption. Obviously with no preparation what so ever.
Take power meters, Garmins and radios of all pro riders to stop screen staring and verbal distractions. This would have a positive safety effect and go back to rim brakes as disc braking racers are braking later and harder into corners.
It'll be hard to take numbers away now 👀
Dan’s caption is the best yet!!! 🤙🏾🤙🏾🤙🏾
More crashes? It's the adoption of disk brakes, I tell ya! hahaha
It is _many factorial_ my friend.....although at the pro level with higher speeds it is more of a factor for sure.
The modern peloton seems to be more tightly packed than “back in the day”. I recently watched a video of the 1989 Tour de France and the riders appeared to give each other more space, which probably resulted in fewer touched wheels and clashed handlebars. Perhaps the modern peloton just needs to spread out a bit!
I'm glad you did not mentioning doping as a reason for faster speed as a reason for the increasing trend in accidents, because this would be plainly ridiculous to imagine...
Speed increase can also be aligned to technology. Aero everything, including helmets and clothing. But descending, with disc brakes and better tyres, people can descend quicker
Late to the party, but I think Simon and Dan hit on the factors. Speed is undoubtedly a major contributing factor to crash frequency and severity. To slow the speed, set a minimum bar width, maximum wheel depth, restrictions on helmet size/shape, maximum stack height etc.
More climbing early in races to break up the peloton.
Reduce the field sizes by reducing the number of riders and/or the number of teams.
As far as experience, set a minimum number of UCI racing days a domestic pro rider has to have to be able to race at a pro-continental level and another minimum of pro-continental racing days to be able to race world tour. A similar system is used in the US to move from Cat 5 to 4 for exactly the same reason - lack of skill but lots of fitness is a disaster.
All of these things are very doable, it just takes political will.
Caption competition: People would try anything to get their bike on holiday. However, after some laxatives, this was the best finde during a rectal search by security.
To slow the peleton down, just outfit every bike with that Airhub front wheel that Andre Greipel used to promote to be able to cycle with his less fit/fast family members. Instant speed reduction.
it's not only higher speed, but that combined with so many riders on the front row in dangerous descents. Then, somebody will be sucker who has to take the wrong line going in for the apex. Look back at the big crash in Bask country last week; one is losing grip and goes off the road, and a dozen more go off the road also instead of holding the corner...
If you are descending in a fast Peleton around corners there are always going to be some riders not in the optimum riding line for those corners....ie no space to move.
No mics, yaaay! Brings out your natural beauty;). Seriously, way better look, I like the T-Shirt Dan :). Very good cycling-metal combo ;)
Based on my wife's experience, for swimmers is mostly the fact that you never see the sun. 4am morning practice before the sun rises, and not getting home until it's pitch black and having to avoid coyotes or sleep in the car due to said coyotes.
Am I the only one who is distracted from the two "googly eyes" rings from the tattooed guy in the caption competition foto?
Plus: great caption Mr. Lloyd
#CaptionCompetition Gut check: While recognized as a pioneer for optimizing his gut health for cycling, Jenthe Biermans wondered if they couldn’t fit that bike into a gel cap for easier insertion.
To make racing safer, require kids’ training wheels to be attached to the back wheel. The bikes would not be as tippy or likely to topple over. More importantly, the space the training wheels adds would increase the distance between riders resulting in less riders being able to fit side by side across the road. Surely this would lead to less crashes.
I think is because of the slick tires
I'd love this discussion on the GCN Racing channel. 12+ minutes talking about racing seems lengthy for a topic that doesn't apply to most of your audience. Enjoy your racing from the comfort of your seats in your home.
Love the zip tie hack. Speaking of things hitting the crank, my lace up shoes require the lace being tucked in to avoid the annoying noise.
#captioncompetition: I know we promised a “GCN” water bottle but this will have to do.
HI guys. Your comment with regard to riders taking responsibility for their own safety and level of competence is something I have to agree with. I remember hearing David Millar say that there are some incredible bike-acrobats in the pro-peloton, but there just happen to also be quite a lot of complete muppets. I also read that Lance Armstrong in his early pro days would crash quite a lot, until he stopped racing for a while went away and practiced his bike handling skills. After that, he didn't crash nearly as much. Makes sense.
A good approach could be rising weight limit and forcing teams to install cameras and sensors for the media feeds, as in F1 but adapted and at scale. That would make bikes heavier and would make it somewhat safer
Most injuries are upper body, especially clavicles, ribs, etc. Could there be a connection to clips not releasing quickly enough during a crash?
Thanks for all you do GCN! By the way, the Pakgo EX looks amazing. That's something I have been searching for months now. I think that's my answer to my travel and cycle overseas goals. Cheers!
Our pleasure!
Whilst I want to believe it, I’ve heard the justification of “why is everyone going so fast now?” Several times before… nutrition, training, intensity, tech.
Unfortunately every time before it’s usually ended up in “someone figured out how to cheat the doping tests”
I'd be interested to see the data on the number and gravity of incidents since disc brakes. The number of crashes involving locking up wheels seems likely to me. I'm not anti-disc before the avalanche of criticism begins!!!!
Durian Rider blames disc brakes.
Dan ‘cruising past van der Poel’ is something I’d love to see 😅
regarding the possible increase in crashs' it could well be due to the narrow bars, certainly the adopted time trial position & the sheer increase in the peloton speed, so in order to keep up they are all tucked in as much as poss due to the high intensity leaving no room for error, even our own home town races the speed has increased so the pro elite peloton must be like a train, overall speed has certainly increased.
The crash in the tour de flanders, may not be possible to prevent BUT just filling the dish with some hay, would have reduces the injuries massively. And I think this is the way to go, prevent all crash will possibly make the sport less interesting. Preventing severe injuries is the way to go.
Limit wheel depth. Deep wheels are twitchy in the wind.
My 1978 Falcon road bike had 38cm handlebars (c/c).
#caption . "no thanks , i`ll wait for my GCN bottle".
no need to modify the frame to fit the red shift post. the red shift post can easily be bonded to the domanes seat post mast.
A couple of thoughts on speed and crashes. In the old days there was a "Patron" who kept things clam and decided when they could race. Obviously that lead to slower races because they would take it easy for the first 150km!
Speed might not make crashes more likely but the consequences, in terms of injury, could be worse.
I've noticed that riders are still riding on pavements/verges where the spectators belong so the risk of "3rd party" craashes is increased. Afew years ago the UCI tried to ban it but the riders seeem to have returned to their evil ways. If the UCI got tough over that then some crashes might be avoided. Only chucking offenders off the race would be effective though as any fines are insignificant in the millions of (pick a currency) involved.
Dan, when you ride too much you can "bunny hop" the pot-holes.
Dan Dan, get fit yes but please please don't do a James Hunt, we can't bear to lose you.
32:06 holy crap its Prepotente!
Wondering which race the caption competition photo is from? It says Dwars Door Vlaanderen on his lanyard badge!
Just from experience, in the pack in the last part of the race becomes let's say a bit nasty, elbows, pushing & shoving, and with the amount of money involved and team orders the stakes are higher.
To start, the width of handle bar needs to be limited to how narrow it can be…may not slow the race but should improve the stability or control.
Caption competition: It’s the end of 3D printing as human gives birth to a saddle….what next?
Increased pack size. road furniture forced to ride in horrible weather. Racers forced to ride on dangerous downhill at a break neck pace no Union for the racers riders are being forced to ride when they’re already injured the result is or crashes and more severe injuries. It’s not a mystery.
I've been enjoying listening to the show on Spotify and I'm constantly getting looks as I am always laughing! And then I want to see the visuals, so watch on TH-cam as well!
Front wheel abs and no more crashes
If you can’t brake without ABS that’s a skill issue a rider needs to address.
@@Ryan.T89 agreed,but the speeds are getting higher than the conventional braking system can cope
Rim brakes effectively have ABS built in.....I personally always use both front and rear brakes at the same time but some riders don't.
it is quite interesting that the same topic was huge in alpine skiing this winter, as there also had been crashes of many big names... is there something that can relate this? big changes in technic and equipment too there...
Did anyone see the video of the lady throwing her hat ar Van der Poel's wheels during Paris-RoubIx? It appeared to be an attempt to cause him to crash or to have a mechanical failure.
Hi, we have an update on this at globalcyclintnetwork.com 👍👍
@@gcn This link doesn't work. Maybe a lady has just thrown a hat over it
Start the first minute easier than you think you need and don't increase the pace until your heart has a chance to catch up
I wonder if disc breaks are playing a part in this. When an incident starts, a panic snatch of the front break easily locks the wheel and takes you down. Rim breaks didn’t do this as easily. Love the channel.
thanks for the love! Disc brakes are certainly being mentioned a fair bit in the comments here 🤔