Another part of a video series from Wordonfire.org. Bishop Barron will be commenting on subjects from modern day culture. For more visit www.wordonfire....
Oh come on. The Catholic Church has never embraced the "sola fide" principle, but rather has enthusiastically embraced reason. Read any two pages of Thomas Aquinas and tell me that Catholic theology relies "100% on faith alone."
But friend, what are you doing right now but judging me?! If you don't think James Cameron was making a vigorous theological argument in his movie, you're naive. And why should I, in a free country, not have the right to contest him?
@witchwild To be a person is to be endowed with intellect, will, and freedom. It doesn't necessarily imply embodiment. God, who is a spirit, is not living in a "place;" so it would be difficult to "hang out" with him. I might recommend, however, prayer.
I wouldn't disagree with the good sister entirely. But I would suggest that the symbol system of Avatar is much closer to New Age mysticism than to orthodox Christianity.
That doesn't make any sense! "Avatar" and "Star Wars" do indeed exhibit a fundamentally pagan style spirituality. And I'm talking about general tendencies and trajectories, which I think are on clear display.
@Darusdei What I'm arguing is that contingency has to be grounded, finally, in some reality which is radically non-contingent, unconditioned. This is what I mean by "God." I'm not pulling God into the discussion arbitrarily; I'm arguing for his existence on logical grounds.
@Ebuverthebicepcurler Does a good parent give his child absolutely everything he asks for? And doesn't a good parent sometimes prevent his child from over-indulging in certain joys? Jesus consistently called God "father." If you stay with that analogy, a lot of your questions will be answered.
@pisumalu God has infinite love and knowledge, but God can't suspend our free will, unless he wants us to be puppets. Despite all of a parent's loving concern, her child could, in principle, reject that love. To reject the divine love, from the deepest center of one's being, is to enter the state designated by the symbolic language of Hell.
@gtoure How does it defy common use? A person is someone endowed with intellect, will, and freedom. What do you think a person is? And in point of fact, I'm not "individualizing" God if by that you mean that I'm turning God into a particular being. God is not one being among many; but rather the sheer act of to-be itself. Now the sheer act of to-be itself must be possessed of every ontological perfection, and that means he is a person.
@witchwild The classical definition was proposed by Boethius: a person is an instance of a rational nature. So there are indeed human persons, since human nature is rational, but there are spiritual persons as well, endowed with rationality but not embodied.
@gtoure I'm operating out of Boethius's definition of person as "an instance of a rational nature." On this reading, humans are indeed persons, but they don't exhaust the category, for there are spiritual persons as well. When I speak of God as pure act, I don't imply any change in God. I mean that he is utterly actualized, perfect in being.
@cheetah100 The question to ask is "where did that Beauty and that Majesty come from?" We know that the universe is not self-explanatory, for it is marked in every detail by contingency. So who endowed it with such impressive qualities?
@witchwild Well, I gathered as much! What you're describing I would characterize as a mystical communion with nature. When I speak of prayer, I always mean a communion of persons, a contact between a human being and the God who knows us better than we know ourselves.
@GooglyBee23 No! Creatures are not, in any sense, "extensions" of God. They exist in radical distinction from their creator, even as they depend upon God every moment.
@Olufff I said so. My line, I think, was "even more than Lord of the Rings, Avatar is a fully realized imaginative world." That assumes that the Lord of the Rings was indeed such a world. I just thought that Avatar was more so.
@GooglyBee23 The true God is indeed immanent to the world, but he is not reducible to it. His immanence is in tension with his radical transcendence to what he has made. The tradition catches this by referring to God as ipsum esse subsistens, the sheer act of to-be itself.
I felt extremely grateful to the Avatar film because it reached people in a way that no amount of statistics can do. I saw people go in for an action flick & leave discussing the real challenges faced by people in the Amazon, Borneo, or even here in the USA. Art can be transformative, &even the director admited, he made the film for money, but wound up having his eyes opened to the needs of many around the world. To me, that is at the heart of the spiritual practice facilitated via the film.
Nature is a reflection of the glory of God, as you affirmed in the video. Reflection of God, i.e., its intelligibility, beauty, truth, meaning, etc. And God is indeed omnipresent in His creation, as you affirm in other videos. My only criticism here is that you were a little too critical of pantheism. We can point out to pantheists that God is everywhere in creation, as pantheists also believe. But He's also greater than creation itself. Thank you for all the amazing work you do. Big fan!
@joanswitches Oh come on! There is a massive difference between casual religious remarks in a film and central spiritual thematics. I mean, Dirty Harry might have said, "Oh my God" once in a while, but that hardly means that the film was endorsing Christianity! But "may the Force be with you" is reflective of the organizing philosophy of Star Wars.
@Darusdei Whether it's always been there is beside the point. What matters is that it is nothing but a congeries of contingent things--and hence it needs an explanation. The universe is non-self-sufficient.
the religion of the characters in the movie sounds a lot like the "new age" religion that has become trendy at the moment. But like all trends and fads, including the "new atheism", it wall pass away. Much like the hippie movement in the 60s. But Catholicism has been around for nearly 2000 years, and has been tested every step of the way. Just on that fact alone makes the claim that Catholicism is true more trustworthy, because the Catholic faith is not a temporary trend it is the truth.
Really enjoyed the insight and distinction between the general spirituality presented in the film and our specific relationship with God. Really helpful!
Bishop Baron, So fun to find this old review on Avatar. I really love you and your love of film and your ability to discern different films so honestly from a Kingdom perspective! I completely agree with your review (and assessment of Hollywood). I’m delighted you enjoyed and love this film for those reasons given as I do (beauty, 3D, garden of Eden like, spiritual!). One aspect and thread through the movie perhaps you missed, or didn’t discuss here, is the conversion and the amazing soul healing and spiritual transformation of Jake, the marine receives. His transformation upon becoming Na'vi is very much like being born again. Jake is a very broken man, both figuratively and literally. The symbolism is really remarkable and I think that’s really all God here, not James Cameron who provides this. Everything changes in Jake’s heart (and body). The Avater is born in water and so Jake sort of goes through a sort of baptism upon first entering the new body, he is born of spirit. (Upon our conversion, eventually over time, as Jesus heals our souls, we are healed and our vision is transformed for the Kingdom) We literally become a warrior for God and The Kingdom of Heaven, not unlike Jake becomes a warrior for the Na'vi. It’s really transformational, even the warfare he goes through with the attack of the humans against the Na'vi and many of the Na'vi don’t believe in him. So much to unpack in this film. Bishop Baron, I was raised Catholic and I no longer call myself Catholic, simply Christian. However, I don’t think this is important. You are such a wonderful priest, prophet (A prophet always disrupts and you do that beautifully) and in many ways a very good king. Thank you for your leadership, your goodness and kindness. Bless you father!!
@jayreiacira Well first, friend, I'm hardly "promoting" it; I was sharply critical of it in my review. And second, I'm not sure which scene you're referring to. I didn't see anything particularly "pornographic" in Avatar.
You know, I think you and I had this conversation before! Calling someone's observations "unhelpful and lacking" is, anyway you want to slice it, a judgment. Again, I don't condemn you for this; but I'm impatient with your double standard: I can't judge, but you, apparently, can judge all you want.
I am United Methodist, yet consistently listen to his commentary on many issues and learn a great deal of things. It is priest such as Fr. Barron that I proudly confess in the apostolic "I believe in the catholic (universal) church."
@gtoure Oh brother! God's personhood is a function of God's ontological perfection. It means that he's possessed of intellect and will. And if you think this means he "coddles" human beings, I would recommend a thorough reading of the Bible!
@pint047 I know; I know: we religious types have such a tough time being rational. Take a look at my video on Zeitgeist, which has been up for about a year.
If I may try to make your statement a little differently: The religion of manifestation makes no claims upon us, it's simply there for us to acknowledge or ignore as we wish. The religion of proclamation makes very clear claims and demands (!) upon us, right from the beginning. We humans naturally gravitate towards the former, and eschew the latter.
@joanswitches Oh come on! Mel Gibson independently produced "The Passion of the Christ," which became one of the biggest grossing movies in history. And now Hollywood is beginning to appreciate the Christian audience. Name for me the "Jesus movies" that mainstream Hollywood has "churned out" in the past 25 years!
Now you offer both judgment and sarcasm! How inclusive and non-violent of you! I'm teasing you because I think you've backed yourself unnecessarily into a corner. The kind of judgment that Jesus speaks of is not intellectual disagreement (heck, take a look at his rather energetic disagreements with the scribes and Pharisees), but rather the sort of move that de-humanizes and objectifies one's opponents. I'm as against that as you are, I think.
This is a very good insight. Today, a tele-evangelist commenting on technology's destractions from interpersonal relationships, was familiar with youth texting each other in the same room. There was a failure to notice a logical connection between the biblical premise of scripture alone, and continuity with reading, information exchange and electronic communications. Texting might as well be the secular equivalent of God texting man through the Bible alone.
@GooglyBee23 All of that is fine, as long as you stress, with equal emphasis, the radical otherness of God. God is both immanent and transcendent. False spiritualities and theologies give us an either/or in this regard.
My point is that, as our culture is mostly Christian, the majority of Hollywood movies display a fundamentally Christian style spirituality. So if you are going to argue that "May the force be with you" is a promotion of non-Christian religions, then at the same token, you have to argue that any movie that has people saying "God bless you" or "Jesus Christ" or "Oh God" is an endorsement of Judaic/Christian concepts of spirituality.
"Accessible but nonthreatening" in reference to Avatar's sort of spirituality was the best insight in my opinion. Although I am an inexperienced Christian, a similar mind state and consciousness that is presented in Avatar and The Alchemist has opened my eyes to a lot of things and what I feel are truths that I did not notice while still being a Christian. In your opinion, does it conflict with a person's Christianity to also hold this sort of spirituality?
I never see this cause i'm afraid of the colors. Nothing least. I LOVE all your videos thank you Mommy Mary! I understand the feelings. I pass many times don't knowing nothing member. Thank you Jesús Christ! Thank you Bishop Barron!
Thank you, Father, for this commentary! I've been telling my friends ever since I saw this when it came out that it's a great movie despite all the talk against it. As long as you aren't easily fooled by the anti-Catholic concepts, it's quite possible to be very entertained by this highly visually stimulating movie.
Yeah, I've noticed a lot of new-age spiritual people say "the universe" or "energy" when I would say "God." "The universe is responsive." Something like that. I think it is a little less threatening to some people than the idea of a personal God. The universe may simply respond to your thoughts and wishes, but a God may actually want something of you, and as a person have his own will. I think people often think of "the universe" as a huge vending machine. That's how it's "responsive."
Exactly! Nobody will ever fear the "force," in the Biblical sense. And the "force" will never draw anybody in a personal sense. Haven't seen the film but interested in what you think of the heavy "transhumanist" theme throughout?
And it's a love story :), good verses evil, a tree of Life, garden setting, Good prevails over evil. Man having domain over the other creatures. Love your commentary Fr Barron :)
Interesting insight, as usual. I agree with much of it, including the idea that Hollywood finds spiritual traditions of this sort less threatening. I don't think it's a theological preference: rather, they are are shilling to as wide an audience as possible, for economic reasons. I would guess it's non-threatening in part because they know that most Christians are unable to see "nature-based" religions as a serious threat to their own "personal" faith. Have you read Joseph Campbell?
Being skeptical should be a trait which is praised not one which should be equated to "bad guys." Also religions in movies routinely manifest themselves in a testable and repeatable way unlike the Christian faith which relies 100% on faith alone.
Some movies have a theme strung into them. A Man Called Horse, Dancing with Wolfs, and now Avatar are, I think, have a anti materialsm theme. Or materialsim = civilization.
After listening to the erudite priest I'll never see another movie the same way again. I was like a wide-eyed boy throwing popcorn in my mouth looking at the splendiferous world of Pandora in wonderment and awe.
no they didn't, avatar is a word thats been around for a long time, had they called it the last air bender avatar or anything linked to the nickelodeon universe of avatar then they can sue, you can't copyright a word unless the word is a brand like youtube, nick (for tv airings) ect
Fr. I think you are limiting what God is 'The Holy Spirit the giver of life' God is not only the creator of the universe, he is 'the word' that you speak of in the form of Jesus and he is also the avatar nature spirituality in the form of the Holy Spirit . God not only created the Universe, he is an integral part of it. God is the beginning and end of all things.
i would have to disagree their goddes eywa is somekind of a person that cares about them "eywa has heard you" was said at one moment in the movie , so its not really just up to them will they "use the force" , but it depends on independant authority called eywa.
Lets not try the trick of guilt through association. Yes, Pantheist belief is popular in Hollywood; but it was also the belief of the Stoics. I have genuine awe for the universe; I don't know anyone who can look out on a star filled night contemplating the vast distances and vast size of the universe without being struck by the beauty and Majesty of the universe. Let's not try to borrow that feeling to support a personal god with exactly zero evidence.
I was so glad to hear a more open-minded and objective opinion about the "spirituality" displayed in Avatar. There are many religious people on TH-cam, saying the most absurd and pushy things to people. They are almost vile while speaking of God, because they act like they're speaking for God. lol. I'm an agnostic. This means, I'm spiritual, but I really can't choose any religion to follow. And, I'm glad about that. Say aliens came to Earth and they knew the absolute truth. Would we listen?
You said that God chooses people right, well in a small scene don't the seeds of one of the spirit tree cover Jake's body and that tell Nytriri that their nature god has a plan for Jake. Then when he tries to pray to her she answers by having all of the plant's wild life help them in the battle. All I am saying is that Star War and Avatar kind of show how to relate to religion in an interesting illustration.
What's funny is that James Cameron wasn't trying to be controversial, he was trying to have mass appeal and be un-controversial. If the Navi were Catholic there would be protests in the streets. Hollywood loves "spirituality" but dislikes Christianity.
a friend of mine commented on how even in the film, the Na'vi religion is reduced to scientific examination, and how the humans dismiss any greater power.
@metalahhhhhhhhhhhh I don't think being connected with nature is a bad thing as long as you don't start worshipping it like the Navi in the movie. IT may be powerful but is still is a created force. It is a system not a being itself worthy of worship.
@wordonfirevideo Beauty and that Majesty is a judgment we make. It is like asking where numbers come from. It was I who endowed it with Majesty because it was my judgment, The question is "why do you feel you know the answer?"
They go "prove god, show me god", then when someone says "here it is", then why dont accept it? nobody ever wants to accept it. Just like a child asks his mother "who's my father?", and the mother says "HE is your father", wont you believe your mother? The nature is the mother. The golden mean proportion, its all around you, in all forms, phi, that is intelligence.. I think it's time to grow up and just look at the facts. Quantum physics.
Also i think it shows maybe the ancient vs the recent. I sometimes think theres this view that ancient people were stupid or dumb. And its like no they weren't. African people wore barely any clothing because where they live its very hot. Certain Native Americans didn't farm the land because they didn't need to they got all their resources from nuts, fruits, and animals. Also shown is a mirror of history and how this story has happened many times in the past.
Well I can appreciate this point of view as an agnostic myself. The way i see it tho is very for nature. See I think the Navi represent nature, people always like to say what u have that natures on Earth but god created the whole universe. Well the whole universe is nature. Stars, suprenovas, asteriods, comets,etc... thats all nature. I think this move shows the power of nature and how eas it is for nature to react to forces. Also it shows that people maybe should be more connected with nature.
Yes, so if we know that immoral and morally questionable actions have been committed by some members of the Church at some point in time, what makes that institution infallible or more trustworthy than one's own conscience (to which God speaks directly)? I repeat my previous question: "How do you know when the Church is wrong?" The only sensible approach it seems to me is TO DO GOOD. Not to teach it, not to preach it, but to do it. If it is indeed good, than its example alone will teach.
I too would suggest seeing it in theaters, because outside of that stunning theatrical experience that only Avatar can provide, this movie simply has no substance- except, of course, the heavy-handed Green Radicalism (I guess whether that's good or bad depends on your personal experience...) Here's hoping the sequel is more balanced!
Its true fantasy stories (or alternate world sci-fi) tend towards simplistic mysticism or pantheons reminiscent of Greek myth but I would suggest that its mostly used as a way to duck out of causing offense without being as conspicuous as leaving out religion entirely from a culture. Is Mr. Barron really suggesting that he would have been more pleased by seeing a fictional religion centered on a different charismatic prophet?
Alright then. My question to you is this: If I were faced with a 500 character limit, and and I wished to debate you without having to limit the amount of words used to throughly make a point, where would I go? There. The question has been asked. Let's see if you can answer it.
Didn't the Navi, in the movie, worship a conscious entity that was within the interconnected neurological root system of the trees on the planet Pandora? I don't remember what they called their 'God' but didn't they believe it could answer prayers, and in fact did during the final, epic battle of the movie? Sounds more like an active conscious, living entity then merely a 'forces/energies of nature' spiritual concept you seem to believe the movie was meant to convey.
@JRserver One historical observation is that native American cultures like the Incas and Aztecs were overwhelmed by technologically superior european powers at the time. An important consequences of this was that European religion came to dominate over indigenous religion. The religions of our native cultures are really just accidents of history and Christianity is no exception. Perhaps if the Mayans had been ahead of us and colonized Europe we would all now be worshiping Queztacotal, who knows.
Simple question: Will the Christian Resurrection and Beatific Vision have a better resolution than High Definition technology and computer generated imagery?
Christianity is essentially the Incarnation of the divine in time & space as a human being. The Avatar technology enables consciousness to be transported from human body to alien, genetically engineered body. When Sully died , his body- rather than resurrected to new life- is "transmigrated" into a different life on Pandora through the powers of the mother goddess. Avatar flirts with the Incarnational and Resurrectional aspects of Christianity, leaning more toward Eastern spirituality and monism
@zkmplayer Hello. You are correct when you say God is not a person in our way of meaning, and also when nobody will ever know all of God's nature (for He is infinite, thus nobody can fully know Him except Himself). But it does not logically follow that there is no way to tell which religion is better. If God chose to reveal Himself and His nature in a way humans can understand, in Moses, the prophets, or Jesus Christ, then we can tell which religion is "better." God bless you.
10 for the visuals; 2 for the theology.
Oh come on. The Catholic Church has never embraced the "sola fide" principle, but rather has enthusiastically embraced reason. Read any two pages of Thomas Aquinas and tell me that Catholic theology relies "100% on faith alone."
@migo53333 So priests can't have opinions about movies???
But friend, what are you doing right now but judging me?! If you don't think James Cameron was making a vigorous theological argument in his movie, you're naive. And why should I, in a free country, not have the right to contest him?
@witchwild To be a person is to be endowed with intellect, will, and freedom. It doesn't necessarily imply embodiment. God, who is a spirit, is not living in a "place;" so it would be difficult to "hang out" with him. I might recommend, however, prayer.
I wouldn't disagree with the good sister entirely. But I would suggest that the symbol system of Avatar is much closer to New Age mysticism than to orthodox Christianity.
God bless you, Fr. Barron, you are so clear and concise and yet, so profound. Let the Holy Ghost continues to enlighten your mind to spread His word.
That doesn't make any sense! "Avatar" and "Star Wars" do indeed exhibit a fundamentally pagan style spirituality. And I'm talking about general tendencies and trajectories, which I think are on clear display.
Yes, and that's the point: we can't reduce the divine to a purely immanent expression.
@Darusdei What I'm arguing is that contingency has to be grounded, finally, in some reality which is radically non-contingent, unconditioned. This is what I mean by "God." I'm not pulling God into the discussion arbitrarily; I'm arguing for his existence on logical grounds.
@Ebuverthebicepcurler Does a good parent give his child absolutely everything he asks for? And doesn't a good parent sometimes prevent his child from over-indulging in certain joys? Jesus consistently called God "father." If you stay with that analogy, a lot of your questions will be answered.
@pisumalu God has infinite love and knowledge, but God can't suspend our free will, unless he wants us to be puppets. Despite all of a parent's loving concern, her child could, in principle, reject that love. To reject the divine love, from the deepest center of one's being, is to enter the state designated by the symbolic language of Hell.
@gtoure How does it defy common use? A person is someone endowed with intellect, will, and freedom. What do you think a person is? And in point of fact, I'm not "individualizing" God if by that you mean that I'm turning God into a particular being. God is not one being among many; but rather the sheer act of to-be itself. Now the sheer act of to-be itself must be possessed of every ontological perfection, and that means he is a person.
I like Fr Barron...
And I Don´t speak english... but i can read the english fluently
alexsolis962 I like his comments in spanish. I´m from Monterrey, Mexico.
me too
@witchwild The classical definition was proposed by Boethius: a person is an instance of a rational nature. So there are indeed human persons, since human nature is rational, but there are spiritual persons as well, endowed with rationality but not embodied.
@gtoure I'm operating out of Boethius's definition of person as "an instance of a rational nature." On this reading, humans are indeed persons, but they don't exhaust the category, for there are spiritual persons as well. When I speak of God as pure act, I don't imply any change in God. I mean that he is utterly actualized, perfect in being.
@cheetah100 The question to ask is "where did that Beauty and that Majesty come from?" We know that the universe is not self-explanatory, for it is marked in every detail by contingency. So who endowed it with such impressive qualities?
@jontv I read a lot of Campbell years ago. He could have been the "theologian" of Avatar, as he clearly was of the Star Wars movies.
@witchwild Well, I gathered as much! What you're describing I would characterize as a mystical communion with nature. When I speak of prayer, I always mean a communion of persons, a contact between a human being and the God who knows us better than we know ourselves.
What Dreams May Come. Please review and share with us. Thank you
@GooglyBee23 No! Creatures are not, in any sense, "extensions" of God. They exist in radical distinction from their creator, even as they depend upon God every moment.
@Ebuverthebicepcurler Well what precisely would you prefer: that we have no freedom? That we don't exist at all?
@3rosesred No, I usually just wear street clothes when I see movies.
@Olufff I said so. My line, I think, was "even more than Lord of the Rings, Avatar is a fully realized imaginative world." That assumes that the Lord of the Rings was indeed such a world. I just thought that Avatar was more so.
@GooglyBee23 The true God is indeed immanent to the world, but he is not reducible to it. His immanence is in tension with his radical transcendence to what he has made. The tradition catches this by referring to God as ipsum esse subsistens, the sheer act of to-be itself.
I felt extremely grateful to the Avatar film because it reached people in a way that no amount of statistics can do. I saw people go in for an action flick & leave discussing the real challenges faced by people in the Amazon, Borneo, or even here in the USA. Art can be transformative, &even the director admited, he made the film for money, but wound up having his eyes opened to the needs of many around the world. To me, that is at the heart of the spiritual practice facilitated via the film.
I've got a better idea: why don't you just stop watching my videos?
i have question for you padre, what do you have against pantheism? Einstein was also pantheist.
Nature is a reflection of the glory of God, as you affirmed in the video. Reflection of God, i.e., its intelligibility, beauty, truth, meaning, etc. And God is indeed omnipresent in His creation, as you affirm in other videos. My only criticism here is that you were a little too critical of pantheism. We can point out to pantheists that God is everywhere in creation, as pantheists also believe. But He's also greater than creation itself. Thank you for all the amazing work you do. Big fan!
Don't Bishop i'm Chapa from danger force she never leaves you
@joanswitches Oh come on! There is a massive difference between casual religious remarks in a film and central spiritual thematics. I mean, Dirty Harry might have said, "Oh my God" once in a while, but that hardly means that the film was endorsing Christianity! But "may the Force be with you" is reflective of the organizing philosophy of Star Wars.
@Darusdei Whether it's always been there is beside the point. What matters is that it is nothing but a congeries of contingent things--and hence it needs an explanation. The universe is non-self-sufficient.
@1r1shCath0l1c I'm afraid not. Whatever that "energy" is, it's a creature because it's contingent.
the religion of the characters in the movie sounds a lot like the "new age" religion that has become trendy at the moment. But like all trends and fads, including the "new atheism", it wall pass away. Much like the hippie movement in the 60s. But Catholicism has been around for nearly 2000 years, and has been tested every step of the way. Just on that fact alone makes the claim that Catholicism is true more trustworthy, because the Catholic faith is not a temporary trend it is the truth.
Really enjoyed the insight and distinction between the general spirituality presented in the film and our specific relationship with God. Really helpful!
I am a protestant and I likeFr. Barron and his views!
Bishop Baron, So fun to find this old review on Avatar. I really love you and your love of film and your ability to discern different films so honestly from a Kingdom perspective! I completely agree with your review (and assessment of Hollywood). I’m delighted you enjoyed and love this film for those reasons given as I do (beauty, 3D, garden of Eden like, spiritual!). One aspect and thread through the movie perhaps you missed, or didn’t discuss here, is the conversion and the amazing soul healing and spiritual transformation of Jake, the marine receives. His transformation upon becoming Na'vi is very much like being born again. Jake is a very broken man, both figuratively and literally. The symbolism is really remarkable and I think that’s really all God here, not James Cameron who provides this. Everything changes in Jake’s heart (and body). The Avater is born in water and so Jake sort of goes through a sort of baptism upon first entering the new body, he is born of spirit. (Upon our conversion, eventually over time, as Jesus heals our souls, we are healed and our vision is transformed for the Kingdom) We literally become a warrior for God and The Kingdom of Heaven, not unlike Jake becomes a warrior for the Na'vi. It’s really transformational, even the warfare he goes through with the attack of the humans against the Na'vi and many of the Na'vi don’t believe in him. So much to unpack in this film. Bishop Baron, I was raised Catholic and I no longer call myself Catholic, simply Christian. However, I don’t think this is important. You are such a wonderful priest, prophet (A prophet always disrupts and you do that beautifully) and in many ways a very good king. Thank you for your leadership, your goodness and kindness. Bless you father!!
@witchwild But why in the world would you "pray" to an impersonal force? I mean, you might try to effect some sort of communion with it, but prayer?
@jayreiacira Well first, friend, I'm hardly "promoting" it; I was sharply critical of it in my review. And second, I'm not sure which scene you're referring to. I didn't see anything particularly "pornographic" in Avatar.
You know, I think you and I had this conversation before! Calling someone's observations "unhelpful and lacking" is, anyway you want to slice it, a judgment. Again, I don't condemn you for this; but I'm impatient with your double standard: I can't judge, but you, apparently, can judge all you want.
I am United Methodist, yet consistently listen to his commentary on many issues and learn a great deal of things. It is priest such as Fr. Barron that I proudly confess in the apostolic "I believe in the catholic (universal) church."
@LukeLovesRose Paganism is essentially a form of nature worship. The true God is the creator of Nature but not reducible to it.
@gtoure Oh brother! God's personhood is a function of God's ontological perfection. It means that he's possessed of intellect and will. And if you think this means he "coddles" human beings, I would recommend a thorough reading of the Bible!
Excellent commentary By Fr. Baron on Avatar. I had the same view of the movie after watching it in 3D.
oh my goodness, that music is so amazing
Wow, absolutely loving your videos ! God bless!
@pint047 I know; I know: we religious types have such a tough time being rational. Take a look at my video on Zeitgeist, which has been up for about a year.
If I may try to make your statement a little differently: The religion of manifestation makes no claims upon us, it's simply there for us to acknowledge or ignore as we wish. The religion of proclamation makes very clear claims and demands (!) upon us, right from the beginning. We humans naturally gravitate towards the former, and eschew the latter.
@joanswitches Oh come on! Mel Gibson independently produced "The Passion of the Christ," which became one of the biggest grossing movies in history. And now Hollywood is beginning to appreciate the Christian audience. Name for me the "Jesus movies" that mainstream Hollywood has "churned out" in the past 25 years!
@tdurran Tell me why, precisely.
Now you offer both judgment and sarcasm! How inclusive and non-violent of you! I'm teasing you because I think you've backed yourself unnecessarily into a corner. The kind of judgment that Jesus speaks of is not intellectual disagreement (heck, take a look at his rather energetic disagreements with the scribes and Pharisees), but rather the sort of move that de-humanizes and objectifies one's opponents. I'm as against that as you are, I think.
This is a very good insight. Today, a tele-evangelist commenting on technology's destractions from interpersonal relationships, was familiar with youth texting each other in the same room. There was a failure to notice a logical connection between the biblical premise of scripture alone, and continuity with reading, information exchange and electronic communications. Texting might as well be the secular equivalent of God texting man through the Bible alone.
@ETworldjone I'm atheist and I like Fr Barron but I don't agree on his views, but it's still enjoyable to listen to him talking.
@GooglyBee23 All of that is fine, as long as you stress, with equal emphasis, the radical otherness of God. God is both immanent and transcendent. False spiritualities and theologies give us an either/or in this regard.
My point is that, as our culture is mostly Christian, the majority of Hollywood movies display a fundamentally Christian style spirituality. So if you are going to argue that "May the force be with you" is a promotion of non-Christian religions, then at the same token, you have to argue that any movie that has people saying "God bless you" or "Jesus Christ" or "Oh God" is an endorsement of Judaic/Christian concepts of spirituality.
"Accessible but nonthreatening" in reference to Avatar's sort of spirituality was the best insight in my opinion. Although I am an inexperienced Christian, a similar mind state and consciousness that is presented in Avatar and The Alchemist has opened my eyes to a lot of things and what I feel are truths that I did not notice while still being a Christian. In your opinion, does it conflict with a person's Christianity to also hold this sort of spirituality?
@YawnGod What strictness? I just invited you to ask me any question you want.
I never see this cause i'm afraid of the colors. Nothing least. I LOVE all your videos thank you Mommy Mary! I understand the feelings. I pass many times don't knowing nothing member. Thank you Jesús Christ! Thank you Bishop Barron!
THANK YOU!
Thank you, Father, for this commentary! I've been telling my friends ever since I saw this when it came out that it's a great movie despite all the talk against it. As long as you aren't easily fooled by the anti-Catholic concepts, it's quite possible to be very entertained by this highly visually stimulating movie.
Yeah, I've noticed a lot of new-age spiritual people say "the universe" or "energy" when I would say "God."
"The universe is responsive." Something like that. I think it is a little less threatening to some people than the idea of a personal God. The universe may simply respond to your thoughts and wishes, but a God may actually want something of you, and as a person have his own will.
I think people often think of "the universe" as a huge vending machine. That's how it's "responsive."
Exactly! Nobody will ever fear the "force," in the Biblical sense. And the "force" will never draw anybody in a personal sense. Haven't seen the film but interested in what you think of the heavy "transhumanist" theme throughout?
Fantastic!
It's Paul Ricoeur.
And it's a love story :), good verses evil, a tree of Life, garden setting, Good prevails over evil. Man having domain over the other creatures. Love your commentary Fr Barron :)
Interesting insight, as usual. I agree with much of it, including the idea that Hollywood finds spiritual traditions of this sort less threatening. I don't think it's a theological preference: rather, they are are shilling to as wide an audience as possible, for economic reasons. I would guess it's non-threatening in part because they know that most Christians are unable to see "nature-based" religions as a serious threat to their own "personal" faith.
Have you read Joseph Campbell?
Being skeptical should be a trait which is praised not one which should be equated to "bad guys." Also religions in movies routinely manifest themselves in a testable and repeatable way unlike the Christian faith which relies 100% on faith alone.
Some movies have a theme strung into them. A Man Called Horse, Dancing with Wolfs, and now Avatar are, I think, have a anti materialsm theme. Or materialsim = civilization.
After listening to the erudite priest I'll never see another movie the same way again. I was like a wide-eyed boy throwing popcorn in my mouth looking at the splendiferous world of Pandora in wonderment and awe.
Well, did Jesus think that his perspective was superior to that of the scribes and Pharisess?
Nickelodeon should sue then they stole the name avatar
no they didn't, avatar is a word thats been around for a long time, had they called it the last air bender avatar or anything linked to the nickelodeon universe of avatar then they can sue, you can't copyright a word unless the word is a brand like youtube, nick (for tv airings) ect
Fr. I think you are limiting what God is 'The Holy Spirit the giver of life' God is not only the creator of the universe, he is 'the word' that you speak of in the form of Jesus and he is also the avatar nature spirituality in the form of the Holy Spirit . God not only created the Universe, he is an integral part of it. God is the beginning and end of all things.
i would have to disagree
their goddes eywa is somekind of a person that cares about them
"eywa has heard you" was said at one moment in the movie , so its not really just up to them will they "use the force" , but it depends on independant authority called eywa.
Lets not try the trick of guilt through association. Yes, Pantheist belief is popular in Hollywood; but it was also the belief of the Stoics. I have genuine awe for the universe; I don't know anyone who can look out on a star filled night contemplating the vast distances and vast size of the universe without being struck by the beauty and Majesty of the universe. Let's not try to borrow that feeling to support a personal god with exactly zero evidence.
@YawnGod Well if you want to, you can pose a question on my TH-cam home page.
I was so glad to hear a more open-minded and objective opinion about the "spirituality" displayed in Avatar. There are many religious people on TH-cam, saying the most absurd and pushy things to people. They are almost vile while speaking of God, because they act like they're speaking for God. lol. I'm an agnostic. This means, I'm spiritual, but I really can't choose any religion to follow. And, I'm glad about that.
Say aliens came to Earth and they knew the absolute truth. Would we listen?
You said that God chooses people right, well in a small scene don't the seeds of one of the spirit tree cover Jake's body and that tell Nytriri that their nature god has a plan for Jake. Then when he tries to pray to her she answers by having all of the plant's wild life help them in the battle. All I am saying is that Star War and Avatar kind of show how to relate to religion in an interesting illustration.
What's funny is that James Cameron wasn't trying to be controversial, he was trying to have mass appeal and be un-controversial. If the Navi were Catholic there would be protests in the streets. Hollywood loves "spirituality" but dislikes Christianity.
a friend of mine commented on how even in the film, the Na'vi religion is reduced to scientific examination, and how the humans dismiss any greater power.
@metalahhhhhhhhhhhh I don't think being connected with nature is a bad thing as long as you don't start worshipping it like the Navi in the movie. IT may be powerful but is still is a created force. It is a system not a being itself worthy of worship.
@SmokiSounds It's coming!
@EMovroydis1 To understand why, take a look at Mark 6:20.
When the Bible says that humans are special, it means as compared to mountains and molds and manitees and such.
Mountains and manatees are pretty special if you ask me.
@wordonfirevideo Beauty and that Majesty is a judgment we make. It is like asking where numbers come from. It was I who endowed it with Majesty because it was my judgment, The question is "why do you feel you know the answer?"
They go "prove god, show me god", then when someone says "here it is", then why dont accept it? nobody ever wants to accept it. Just like a child asks his mother "who's my father?", and the mother says "HE is your father", wont you believe your mother? The nature is the mother. The golden mean proportion, its all around you, in all forms, phi, that is intelligence.. I think it's time to grow up and just look at the facts. Quantum physics.
@benabaxter and what makes you think that the universe we call reality hasn't always been there?
Also i think it shows maybe the ancient vs the recent. I sometimes think theres this view that ancient people were stupid or dumb. And its like no they weren't. African people wore barely any clothing because where they live its very hot. Certain Native Americans didn't farm the land because they didn't need to they got all their resources from nuts, fruits, and animals. Also shown is a mirror of history and how this story has happened many times in the past.
You are apart of nature. And, with any system there must be balance.
Well I can appreciate this point of view as an agnostic myself. The way i see it tho is very for nature. See I think the Navi represent nature, people always like to say what u have that natures on Earth but god created the whole universe. Well the whole universe is nature. Stars, suprenovas, asteriods, comets,etc... thats all nature. I think this move shows the power of nature and how eas it is for nature to react to forces. Also it shows that people maybe should be more connected with nature.
Yes, so if we know that immoral and morally questionable actions have been committed by some members of the Church at some point in time, what makes that institution infallible or more trustworthy than one's own conscience (to which God speaks directly)? I repeat my previous question: "How do you know when the Church is wrong?"
The only sensible approach it seems to me is TO DO GOOD. Not to teach it, not to preach it, but to do it. If it is indeed good, than its example alone will teach.
I too would suggest seeing it in theaters, because outside of that stunning theatrical experience that only Avatar can provide, this movie simply has no substance- except, of course, the heavy-handed Green Radicalism (I guess whether that's good or bad depends on your personal experience...)
Here's hoping the sequel is more balanced!
Its true fantasy stories (or alternate world sci-fi) tend towards simplistic mysticism or pantheons reminiscent of Greek myth but I would suggest that its mostly used as a way to duck out of causing offense without being as conspicuous as leaving out religion entirely from a culture.
Is Mr. Barron really suggesting that he would have been more pleased by seeing a fictional religion centered on a different charismatic prophet?
Dances with Smurfs
So the tools made the art, rather than the artist? Heaven forefend!
@YawnGod
Anytime you want to.
Alright then. My question to you is this: If I were faced with a 500 character limit, and and I wished to debate you without having to limit the amount of words used to throughly make a point, where would I go?
There. The question has been asked. Let's see if you can answer it.
However, I do believe there is a Christian action film (I know, right?) coming out called 'The Book of Eli.'
Should make for a unique experience, no?
Didn't the Navi, in the movie, worship a conscious entity that was within the interconnected neurological root system of the trees on the planet Pandora?
I don't remember what they called their 'God' but didn't they believe it could answer prayers, and in fact did during the final, epic battle of the movie? Sounds more like an active conscious, living entity then merely a 'forces/energies of nature' spiritual concept you seem to believe the movie was meant to convey.
@JRserver One historical observation is that native American cultures like the Incas and Aztecs were overwhelmed by technologically superior european powers at the time. An important consequences of this was that European religion came to dominate over indigenous religion. The religions of our native cultures are really just accidents of history and Christianity is no exception. Perhaps if the Mayans had been ahead of us and colonized Europe we would all now be worshiping Queztacotal, who knows.
Simple question: Will the Christian Resurrection and Beatific Vision have a better resolution than High Definition technology and computer generated imagery?
Christianity is essentially the Incarnation of the divine in time & space as a human being. The Avatar technology enables consciousness to be transported from human body to alien, genetically engineered body. When Sully died , his body- rather than resurrected to new life- is "transmigrated" into a different life on Pandora through the powers of the mother goddess. Avatar flirts with the Incarnational and Resurrectional aspects of Christianity, leaning more toward Eastern spirituality and monism
It seems like it's partly based on Native culture of long ago, greed, war, technology and probably some old philosophy.
How might the Resurrection and Beatific not look like Pandora?
@zkmplayer Hello. You are correct when you say God is not a person in our way of meaning, and also when nobody will ever know all of God's nature (for He is infinite, thus nobody can fully know Him except Himself). But it does not logically follow that there is no way to tell which religion is better. If God chose to reveal Himself and His nature in a way humans can understand, in Moses, the prophets, or Jesus Christ, then we can tell which religion is "better." God bless you.