Do bikers steal stuff? Securing your stuff... and is this really a problem?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2021
- A viewer recently asked how to secure his seat on his bike to avoid theft, and it made me think, is this a problem? We need to keep the honest dudes honest and secure easy to walk away valuable items, but is theft a problem? We're gonna talk a but about coolers and generators, but also a quick chat about securing your @harleydavidson quick-release parts on your bike. Links to the power bank, quick release locks below.
Also, don't forget to join us tonight (July 7th, 2021) at 8pm Eastern on the @VeteranBiker channel to talk about his Sturgis plans.
Locking quick release latches: www.amazon.com/dp/B078W4NS9L/...
Suparee Power Station (Discount Code is monkeysave20): suparee.com/?ref=portable-pow...
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#UltraLimited
#TourPack
#ElectraGlide
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#QuickRelease
#Daytona
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My dad used to say, "If someone wants to steal, they will find a way to steal it. We lock things up to keep the honest man honest".
At a small local bike rally here where I’m from, we had a guy younger gentleman that tried stealing stuff out of tents. The club putting on the party caught him, but didn’t do what we all thought they would do to him. What they did was made him return all of the stuff in apologize to everyone individually. I think that might’ve been worse than a beating.
DAMN!!!!
Then give him a beating one at a time from each of them with a
bolo paddle in his hands
Caught a hobo stealing from garages in SWDetroit. After a few networking phone calls the posse showed up .We held him for the PD , meanwhile he faced some serious retribution. Slow PD response. I told him show us where you stashed the stuff , give it back and your on your way before going to jail .He couldn't or wouldn't find it all . Got a very serious education and jumped into the squad when it got there.
At a club related event years ago a brother had WAAAAAAAY to much to drink. Stealing saved his life. We stole his plug wires.
THERE YOU GO!
True story, we still laugh about 30 years later. This man kicked this Shovelhead, and kicked, and kicked, and kicked. Finally just passed out on the ground. We quietly put his plug wires on in the middle of the night, he fired it up in the morning and rode away.
Still 1 of the funniest things to happen in my life.
T.S. RACING
Ha ha ha!!!! Boosted that is frieking hilarious!!! Brings back good memories , because back in 1984 we had a HUGE GROUP that would go to Pismo Dunes to camp and ride ( all three wheelers , mostly 250r's ) and one of the fellas had Way to Much To Drink before we were going out on our afternoon ride out on the Dunes, Sooooo one of us distracted him and another one of us took his plug wire off , and when it came time to fire up the trikes and head out , that dude was kicking his 250r a hundred times , and cause hewas so drunk he never one time even looked down to check anything , he just kept on kicking . He finally threw his hands in the air and went and sat down in his chair . So like you said , that was one time that Stealing was completely justified!!!
"Keeping honest people honest" That's the world we live in.
Sad ain't it?😒
Just one more reason why I have always kept my distance from humans.
I live in mortal fear of what they might make me do to them.
I see what you did there.
Theft didn't used to be a problem at biker events. Sadly, that's changed since the '90s. Can't leave your helmet, jacket and gloves on your bike anymore. We've even had bikes stolen from rallies. Sad, but true. Ride smart
My biggest fear is someone stealing my helmet. It's just a rwgulat canadian tire special, but I have a comms system on it to talk to my wife, listen to music... I take the comms off when ever I leave my helmet and the bike has a lock but if me and my woman are out, only one helmet will fit. Has to be mine cause she doesn't have her M. Crack heads and assholes are doubling in population all the time so be safe and lock up.
Dude… you have become my favourite TH-camr out there. Love your style and communication nuances. You’re hilarious and informative. Haven’t done Sturgis but 2023 here we come
I really appreciate that!
You know - maybe it is a generation thing. 30 yrs ago - it was drunk student night at the waterhole. One guy grabbed the Sheep skin off a bike. He thought it was a funny thing to do. Word has it that the students were given a message - put it back on the bike next week. It did show up that night. This was back in the day of kick starters. I watched as a little guy - maybe 110 lbs - jumped up and down on that starter for 20 minutes. When he started it - all the cabbies cheers for him. I have never lost anything of my bikes.
Had a vintage buco helmet stolen at a bar. Sad thing is it had to be someone I knew.
You can't stop a thief, you can only hope to slow them down!!!
Or just make it more trouble than it's worth.
Or catch them when they do and give them a limp for life..
In Texas we slow them down with southern hospitality!
Lock yours and a lazy thief will move on to the unlocked stuff nearby.
The working from home bit and what day it is - on point.
Few years ago, I went to my usual bar, took my chaps off, rolled them up and stuck them in my saddlebag. It was November,, in Oklahoma, so a little nippy...Came back later, chaps were gone then found someone trying to sell them at a local swap meet the next week. Good thing I had my name on the inside lol
"I don't like no one touching my stuff. So just keep your meathooks off. " -Private Francis 'psycho' Sawyer
"Calm down Francis " Sgt Hulka
A Lock is for an Honest man!
I have been burned too many times, I No Longer Trust Anyone.
I ride an old goldwing. Nobody wants to steal goldwing parts. Also I lock my helmet jacket and gloves in the bags and trunk. It's an '89 if anyone was interested.
The HD locks were 2 for 80$, after looking at them before walking to the counter it dawned on me that they were just blocking the shaft from moving to 'open'. I drilled and tapped the OEM lock and installed a set screw. To remove mine now take an allen wrench. Not 'quick release' anymore but more secure. Cost 3$.
You need to do a video of your set up showing that lock. 👌🤙
Once upon a time I was camping with my wife and kids and a guy walked up and asked if we had jumper cables he could borrow. That's the last time I saw those cables
My husband bought me a $400 helmet, when we were dating, I take it with me everywhere when I'm not on the bike.
I took street glide bags up too room one night locals were so sketchy freaking me out. Usually I use bag locks made by marine gentleman ..god bless u all
Had a buddy get his whole bike stolen up at Sturgis around ‘95 or so. Had our bikes parked on Main Street one evening while we were walking around. Got back to the bikes a couple hours later and his was the only one gone. Just like it vanished into thin air. He was pretty upset which is understandable. He ended up flying back to Kansas where he lived at the time.
I attended Daytona bike week in 1992, went out to Swaptona and the cops were at the front gate doing a theft report. A guy parked his bike next to the gate and several people drove up with a truck and loaded his bike and left......... while the idiot security guard stood there and watched them do it. Needless to say the bike's owner was extremely pissed.
Ordering the locking hardware from Amazon tonight. Thanks! Don’t know why someone stealing my quick release stuff never occurred to me.
Glad to help
In my experience, bikers don't steal from other bikers generally.... Vendors on the other hand, better keep there eyes on everything that isnt bolted down
I randomly found your channel. I'm already aware of most of the things you talk about. I'm still here because I enjoy your stories and you're a good speaker. Good entertainment man. Rubber side down. Unless you're hitting booters or up on one, of course.
Thank you!
We use our Safty chains from our bike trailer with a lock. This will be our 6th Rally. And never had anything taken.
In California, you lock everything then say a prayer. Most decent helmets are in the $500 range, so mine gets locked in the tour pack along with gloves and jacket.
Thanks! I’m gonna get a set of those locking latches for my Road King as I have a detachable passenger backrest and a detachable luggage rack. Especially since it is an ‘07 and some of the parts for the older Harleys are no longer available and I’m pretty sure the newer detachable stuff won’t fit. Since I’m an old guy I’ll probably hang on to this bike until I’m too decrepit to ride so I’d kinda like to keep the detachable stuff from walking!
Again more useful info. I tend to take what I can inside or with me at rally’s. Been riding since 1993 and never had anything stolen, but I don’t tend to leave stuff out and about as a temptation.
I did have a brain fart weeks back at a location during the MB rally. Walked away from my bike and left my phone sitting in the holder on the handle bars. Came back a few hours later and it was still there. Wife and I were both elated.
Heading to Biketoberfest in Daytona in October. Let’s hope I don’t break my good luck chain.
I left my keys in the ignition on a trip into Safeway a couple weeks ago. I'm pretty sure that's the biggest bitch out I ever gave myself! lol. Bike was still there!
I zoned out when I went to Americade and left my gopro on my helmet. Came back about 3 hours later, stuff was still there. 😅
A go pro fer sure. I now use a lock with a cable to lock my full face helmet to the bike. I honestly didn't care until I got the cardo..All of a sudden the helmet becomes a 600 dollar loss. Still looking forward to a go pro in the future!
I've always thought of bikers as a relatively more honorable group of people than average. But we are still a group of people and I can't always tell which of us are which. However, for those who seem to feel free with other peoples stuff, I wouldn't advise stealing from a biker. That is much more dangerous than average.
Most bikers have respect for each other and their bikes. Thieves usually aren't an issue in crowds because like you stated someone is always around and watching.
I had prescription sunglasses, a Garmin Nav., and inexpensive digital camera stolen from by T-Bag in front of the Alex Johnson Hotel in Rapid City.........and it was my fault. There was always a crowd of people around their MC's at all hours of the day & night, so when I came back from Sturgis at midnight, I thought all the stuff would be safe because it was right in front of the hotel entrance............wrong. Of course I was an idiot. Always stow your gear in your hotel, RV or tent.
The only other time I had something stolen off my bike was when my wife and I were in Salt Lake City visiting the Mormon Square. Came back from the tour and my windbreaker was gone.........How ironic!
Generally, I've always felt that people are respectful (afraid?) of a traveling motorcyclist with gear knowing that they would be helpless without it. Times have changed in the last 40 years and I would think twice about parking my MC in any urban area unattended.
good stuff Monkey, great livestream and I am always picking up ideas from your advice
I was on Route 66 in Arizona with group. I locked my bags and tour pack. Others didn’t. They came out to find all their rain gear and jackets gone. I was ok due to locking thing up.
I love the look of that latch
My favorite part about my magnetic tank bag is that the zipper is lockable. I thought that was a comical feature.
That's hilarious!!!!
Great advice on the quick release stuff! Thanks
Every year I do a 4+ day tour of FLA (SFL, CFL, Keys, Panhabdle). Most places I stay are in sketchy areas due to the cheap prices, (just there to sleep/shower). One particular place that comes to mind is Motel 6 in Dania Beach. In the 3x's I've stayed there (different years) always ask for a handicapped room on the first floor, works out great - with the oversized door can ride right into the room, park the bike (FLHTK) with no need to unpack. The place has fake wood floors and I put a towel down for the kickstand. On my 2nd stay, housekeeping came in since I overslept - didn't skip a beat - she said wasn't the first time she'd seen a bike in a room & if she rode would do the same given the clientele. So long as you're not an Asshat about it, most bargin motels would rather have a bike in the room vs a meth-lab.
I’ve run quick release stuff since 99 and never had an issue but thanks for the info I honestly have never seen those lockable ones. Definitely going to order them. Been to sturgis many times never had anything stolen or anyone in the many groups I’ve went with. Same goes for other more local rallies.
I have been to Daytona and other parts of Florida numerous times and never had a concern of theft and have never had anything stolen. With the new Road Glide I think I will get the lockable latches as a just in case, since my tour pack is quick release and I dropped nearly $1k on it all.
I was a impound/repo man for years, there's nothing you can do. Its kind of like the saying, you can run but you'll just die tired.
Definitely true.
For years at Laughlin, never had an issue. REALLY hope it's on for '22!!!
I’ve had my right bag lid stollen twice in the 26 years I owned my 80 FLT, both times it was stollen was at a rally, even though they locked it only takes a screwdriver to pry it off.
Put a detachable tour pack kit on my ultra limited. I didn’t even consider locks until I saw your video. They’ll be here on Tuesday.
That's right keeping good people honest, very good show
I pretty much follow the same course as you do.
Good video.
Thanks!
i've heard of generators disappearing at night as well as parts off bikes, camp chairs and canopies coolers ect. we chain the gen to the rv, and don't leave anything out that's very valuable. my buddy and i are doing the same thing with the QD locks, ordered a set and 1 on his tour pack and the other on my sissy bar
Great information and content thanks for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
Went to spring break in Panama City FL and took my beloved 04 Fatboy along with 3 other buddies bikes 2 harleys and 1 was a a Honda Shadow I guess thieves ran out of room on their trailer because they left the Shadow
Ive never had an issue at any rally's. Did sturgis in 2019 and just made sure no valuables left in tent, kept most valuable stuff in one saddle bag (2017 king so hard bags) and locked it if I wasn't near the bike. Had a padlock for the tent zipper (thieves are looking for an easy score so even though its mostly useless its enough to deter most) And also just made great friends with the people camping around us so we always had someone trustworthy around the tent that would do something if anyone tried anything. I did take all my quick detaches off (mostly just because I dont like to have them on unless I am using them because I think the bike looks better without anyways). And most importantly I rode my bike into the concert area at the chip so it was with me and I had a seat for the concert lol. but for real, Yes there are bad apples but I never felt safer in regards to my shit than I did at Sturgis. The people were just too good
3 cheers for Road Kings that have quick detach everything. I have learned the everything can be stolen, the key is slowing them down. Why do you 2 locks per bike? I did not know these existed. Thanks for the knowledge.
The Harley branded locks come keyed the same, but you can only put them on one side due to an indent for the washer and screw.
Also they keys are different lengths and the long key will not work without modification to the key on a tourpak.
3 trips to Sturgis and I never really worried about theft. I really don't travel with anything that valuable. I could always replace a stolen item from 100 different vendors. Would be more upset about the inconvenience than the replacement cost. Money & cards stay on my body at all times. I tent camped twice and stayed at Hotels one year. The hotel was the only time I was a little concerned about the bike. But I would just park my 2008 Heritage near a bunch of pretty baggers. Figure chances of someone messing with my bike decreased significantly. This year I'm riding with a more expensive modular helmet. If I going to be more than 30 seconds from my bike I'll lock it up. To easy for someone to grab real quick. I just use a cheap cable lock through the crash bar.
No worries brother I've got all my CNBC cut gripes/ pegs/hand controls/engine guard/ durby cover from Amazon and it didn't cost my a fortune .
Want a nice set of clears that are inexpensive but comfortable. The Milwaukee safety glasses. Fit nice (me at least) and hold up.
Under normal circumstances these people wouldn’t steal but desperate people do desperate things. You just never know who that may be.
My BIL and another guy, in his LEMC, had both their bikes taking outside of their hotel at a rally in Cali. Gone forever.
Thanks for the info.
This will be my 19th Sturgis and never had a problem or any other Rally. Non-Rally can be an issue.
Just Imagine the guy, which gave you a hard time for your sissy bar, is a subscriber today and remembers the moment! 🤣🤣🤣
Let's imagine he's here, own your shit!
Perfectly put...
Lock your stuff up or lose it. Some people got sticky fingers and I just can't help themselves like an addiction. Out of sight out of mind locked up probably better off. I know there's people on here on TH-cam that's making videos and their shops gotten tools stolen out of it one person got up bicycle stolen off the back of their RV twice so just lock it up .
I went to Sturgis last year (2020 during "the plague") and someone walked off with my Road King license plate! Not sure where it happened but they bent the bracket about 20 times and tore about half the bracket off with the plate still attached, probably because I used one-way bolts on the plates. Stupid me, I didn't even realize it until I got home about a week later. $60 from Harley for a new bracket and about $10 to the DMV for replacement plates and all is well again. But it still pisses me off -- the DMV charged me more money!
Why would someone want your plate??? That's so freaking weird!!!
@@ProfessionalMonkey My plate may have been stolen for the tags that were just updated for another 12-months. My best guess is some poor biker or dumb criminal wanted it so the cops wouldn't have a reason to stop them. I mean, thieves are generally pretty stupid. Then again, it might have been some drunk guy sitting in the gutter behind my bike and now has a license plate to go with his "show bike." It's hard to say.
Keeping honest people honest, was master locks original slogan..😂.. Lol. I'm kidding but damn wouldn't that be a bad ass slogan? Of course some one would get offended for whatever reason. I didn't know you could get these with barrel locks. Thanks for the info
The solution is to make your stuff just a little bit harder to steal than the others that may be around you…So far, I’ve been fortunate, but I do take the time to lock my bags, secure small items, and depending on where I am, even lock my helmet to my bike.
Man, I appreciate you
I've had 2 saddleman step up seats stolen at bike events. Talk about ruining your day. The second one only happened because the seat showed up before the locking seat nut. Now that shits locked up tight
I always worry about my custom painted helmet but boy does it look badass sittin on my back seat or hanging from my bars..lol
Good ideas for preventing opportunistic theft. I need reminding that sometimes good people make bad decisions, I am terrible about leaving my shit out and forgetting that those things can walk!! And yes the drinkie-drink can make people do dumb stuff with other people’s stuff haha.
It goes both ways. Ive got drunk and passed out waking up in astonishment that all the valuables I left out all night are still there. I guess my Gardian Angel didn't sleep those nights :)
The reason I got my Sportster was because the previous owner was in a bar on the other coast and when he came out of the bar somebody quickly detached all of his quickly detachable and here it is I'm thinking it would have been easier just to push the bike down the road needless to say he traded it in at the toy store on a Corvette or a boat add I got the bike it was a year old and I've had it 20 years plus and 350,000 Mi on her and she may be the rattiest bike in my collection but like all of my bike she runs good
I have never had an issue but funny ish storey of a friend. He rides a gold wing that has helmet locks. Him and his wife locked there helmets on there bike. Came back and they were missing. Someone had cut the straps and taken the helmets. Now they are no good to anyone. They then got pulled over riding to somewhere to get helmets ( I live in Canada) when he showed the cop what happened the cop followed them to the nearest bike shop so they could get new ones. No ticket
Sumbitches!
You got me again! Now I'm buying it.
I like these.
I have a backrest on my bike that was installed at the dealer I bought the bike from, as well as a luggage rack. It's a locking deal that I have 2 keys for. They had to drill the holes in the body panels to install it. Which they didn't charge me for to install. All I paid for was parts. It was a 21' Vulcan Vaquero 1700.
Used to leave Helmets and other things unsecured, now that I have better stuff I’m a fan of locking stuff.
It takes a very dumb person to steal from someone’s bike at a rally but it can happen. A good friend of mine is going to Sturgis with me this year and is very worried about theft from his tent, bike, Tour pack being stolen. He asked what I do and I don’t let it get to me because no real valuables will be in the tent unless I’m there. I lock everything my bike that can lock, as for my detachable tour pack goes. I’ve never thought anyone would take it. When traveling my bike isn’t very far from me and theft is planned before hand much of the time. I think a bike being taken is easier that robbing the parts unless it’s something real easy to take.
2005 sturgeons rally, came back from watching the fights at the broken spike to find all my 100th anniversary parts off my bike, literally everything except the tank emblems. Had to scour the swap meet just so I could get back to the campground. Sad
that is sad, as another 100 year owner. yeah, the logos are cool, but not cool enough to put on a bike that isnt an 03 anniversary,
My key fits two of my buds locks. Don't tell anybody. Lol
Ok, so my thoughts of stealing is that people that does it need to get their ass handed to them.
If you dont have what you want, buy it.
If you cant afford to buy it, save money.
If you cant save money cuz you dont have any, get a job.
If you cant get a job , try harder.
This is what we all have to do and that is why it sucks so hard when it gets stolen, we work for ours.
Found your channel yesterday and now you keep popping up everywhere, and i cant stop watching 🤣 i dont even ride mc yet, but you talk in a way that i like 👍
Keep up the good work
Kind regards all the way from Sweden
I've never been to Sturgis, but I do go to Daytona.
This past rally more than 20 bikes were reported stolen, along with several trailers.
In Daytona you lock everything up..
KARMA!! When I was young and dumb my 1st road bike had some motor issues so it was parked in my dads detached garage winter was coming I dropped the insurance. Bike was stolen and sold in parts the a- hole was caught but I got nothing but I hope you enjoyed the f---- I just gave you. Karma bite and this lovely person ends up crashing a bike at a RR crossing hitting his lower extremities on the RR sign thus sliding 150’ or so ending up in a ditch. Now karma I was a Career Firefighter EMT for a small town in Indiana guess who was called to piece him back together yep me it did me good to know this guy was going to limp around and hurt every time it rained or got cold! Karma arrives in many different forms!
Did same as you did ordered the 2 pack from Amazon one to lock the aftermarket tour pack to my SG & the other one for a flat rack on same bike worked great
They're really well made also.
@@ProfessionalMonkey they were & the tourpack is Advanblack great product. Will be doing there center console on my Ultra in the future after watching your video on that
In my trade, apprentices start at 24$ ish/hr plus double time after an 8 hour day... (50% of a journeyman)
You'd think that would be enough but we get people stealing tools, food and random shit sometimes. The punishments are harsh and the pay is more than enough to buy what you need so I'll never get it.
This is interesting to me. Ive always been riding an off brand and dont worry too much. This summer a hotel clerk told me not to worry plenty of security... I told him I wasnt worried. No one wants to steal a weird italian bike.
Now that I have added an HD, I will need to be a bit more concerned I guess. The ignition system and locking system on the 2000 glide seems pretty cheezy to me.
You got that right. They get defeated all the time.
Good topic!
Thanks!
Have you ever done a video on how to change the factory security code to start HD motorcycles without the fob? I'm from Chicago and have heard of bikes being stolen at Toys for Tots. Not sure if that's how they were all done, but in the spirit of "keeping honest people honest..."
There’s a bunch of videos on TH-cam about that. It’s called the security pin. When you buy a bike brand new from Harley they set a pin code but it’s all the same so someone who knows that will try activating the pin on motorcycles and it’s possible it can be stolen if that person knows how to put the pin in without the fob and they know the code.
All my kids had convertibles to start out driving. Always told them to keep everything locked in trunk and doors unlocked. If someone wants in they’re going to get in. So make it easy do they don’t destroy your convertible top.
I've heard that also. They will cut that sucker before they even try the door and tops are expensive!
Neighbor one time told me how he witnessed his motorcycle get stolen.He was on 3 floor of a beach club outdoor and witnessed a truck with 5 big dudes jump out and literally lifted his motorcycle and put it in bed before he could get downstairs and stop them.During Thunder beach this past year several reports of motorcycles getting stolen.He never found his motorcycle
Change out the quick release hardware on your saddlebags to something that screws in. It'll save the heartache of having them fall off due to harley's bad design (which happened to me) and theft of saddlebags. It is a thing and I have read on may forums that it can take less than 1 minute to grab both bags if you have the old harley latches.
I've heard about this. Why I'm doing my own mods for a quick release set up. Key set up with the touring fender.
Lol a bobber with bags is gonna be funny.
Orale, never even think of it.. I'm to busy having fun homie..
Right on. Same here!
We were at CVMA Nationals up in Sheridan Wyoming and had a few seats taken as well as a couple tour packs...and one brother had the bag lid speakers taken. Yeah...he forgot to lock yhe bags and next morning the lids were gone!!
Like your channel. My JD lawn tractor and my Lance RV both have universal keys on them. I can go next door and drive away with his JD mower. Like wise I can use my RV compartment key and unlock my daughters RV compartment doors with my key. So how secure are you. WTF. Keep up the good info
Unfortunately people do steal and that Includes any place where there are people, I was missing pins that were placed on my bike and rumor has it that saddlebags have gone missing too
A buddy of mine was at a bar, got to drunk to ride home and left the bike overnight. He went the next morning to get it, bike was there but no seat. Still riding it with no seat. Lol.
Seats can be extremely expensive so I could see a seat or two going missing. Super easy to do and where there are venders that sell them most wouldn't think anything of it when someone is carrying it around.
i never knew they made those, thats pretty cool
Yes. The sissy bar / luggage rack and windscreen are a snap to steal off of my m8 heritage. It takes seconds and yes it’s a concern.
You said thieving trapeze artists and I suddenly had this amazing mental picture! LOL!
Only one time where We have had something stolen off a bike and that was in La Paz, MX on a day trip. Helmet got stolen and it was a bit of a PITA, as Mexico is a must have helmet when riding.
OMG YES I GOT MINE AS SOON AS I PUT MY QUICK RELEASE ON I PUT ON BOTH , IT CAN BE DONE SO IT TAKES JUST A LITTLE LONGER TO TAKE SOMETHING
I bought a tour pak from Harley when I purchased my 21 street glide cost me 1800.00 That is complete pad, bracket, chrome luggage rack,.
Someone stole the eagle on the back of my buddies sissy bar. I met someone at a HD dealership who had his tour pack stolen.
Can you tell me the brand of those locks for detachable items? Love the site man
The Bol do’r ( a 24 hour race at Paul Ricard south of France)used to attract organised gangs who would strip bikes left unattended and you could buy back your fairing panels and anything else you were missing in the second hand parts market that was at the race. The French police didn’t do a lot to stop it. With rallies though you shouldn’t have to locking things away to avoid leaving temptation in view is always the best thing to do.I have never had a problem at a rally big bits of bike are hard to pinch it is small stuff that normally goes missing.
@Peter No at the time.e it was the French with help from Albanians.