I was watching a regatta on the Chesapeake rounding sting ray point near Deltaville. It was a blustery day and most of the hunter’s, Catalina’s and Beneteau’s were close hauled practically sailing on their sides. The crew of these various boats were hanging on for dear life!! There was one island packet in the group and although he wasn’t in the lead, the boat was upright and the crew looked very relaxed. I turned to my wife and said, “honey, that’s why we own an island packet.”
@Rendezvous With The Ramey Family my guess for the expense variation will revolve around the keel and extra labour intensive features? the way they laminate ..which engines. i love both as well as shannon & halberg rassy... looking at resale values alone is how i have arrived here. and they just so happen to be all class.
I have an IP 350. It has a lead ballast, and is integral to the keel. I especially like the keel and rudder skeg- I accidently ran over a telephone pole-like tree and it rolled completely under me causing no damage. A spade rudder design may have had a different outcome. I also like the "old school" shaft (as opposed to the sail drive) and the close proximity of the rudder to the prop. It handles just fine in the marina and a little shot of power makes the rudder effective. I can handle the sails entirely from the cockpit, and the deck is great for going forward. Overall I think it is one of the finest cruiser type sailboats on the market- but I will concede I am biased.
How does it do maneuvering in a marina? How about reversing at slow speeds? My wife and I are thinking of buying an IP, the maneuverability concerns me a bit but I haven't had any experience sailing full keel boats, only fin keel.
We are full time cruisers on Island Packet 40.The amount of time actually underway opposed to living aboard is less than 5 percent which means the comfort and stoutness in a seaway FAR outweighs the “slow” argument. We have passed many fin keels that were deeply reefed on a blustery day. At anchor everyone comes to our spacious boat for sundowners.
@@fairwind8222 hi, we are in the process of purchasing an IP420 here in the UK. We are a mature, ( read old) couple who are returning to sailing and intend to document our travels. We hope to give an insight into sailing in retirement years, to include boat and travel tips and observations. Advise on anchorage’s, and marinas, ( suitability, what they have to offer and in the case of marinas, costs). And yes, the negative points as well. Our aim is, first and foremost to have FUN, and hopefully we can bring a smile or two along the way. We are a couple of months away, and of course where we go to first depends on current restrictions. But hopefully Norway or the Baltic this summer. We hope you come along for the journey.
I had the opportunity of delivering an Island Packet 27 from Seattle to San Diego a few years back and I was very impressed. This is the roomiest, best equipped boat I have ever seen in 27 feet. The boat is amazingly comfortable in a seaway and even in pretty foul stuff up around Moro Bay it was a great sail. I would say this is absolutely one of the best small cruisers out there.
Great video, thanks for taking the time to make it! I agree 100% with your advice to viewers to decide what kind of keel they want early in the boat selection process. I made the decision to go with full keel for the sake of sea kindliness and ruggedness. I wound up in an Island Packet 38 and have never regretted the decision, esp when in rough weather. I've traded off about 1/2 knot of speed. 10 degrees of pointing to weather, and have zero maneuverability around the docks in a marina - it's worth it when you're offshore and get caught in a surprise gale. If I had to do it again, and didn't sail any more than an hour from land, I might buy a less expensive boat. Potential cruisers who are starting out would do well to look at the Island Packet 31 - a go-anywhere offshore boat at a relatively affordable price.
Here is another reason why you never want to go to sea with a fin keeled boat. Ever since containers became the easiest shipping method, and container ships were built bigger and bigger, they have a nasty propensity for losing containers overboard in heavy weather. To give you an actual number; in a recent container loss during a storm, 750 containers went overboard from just one ship. The containers that sink pose no problem to navigation, but many containers contain things that float; i.e., the containers may be barely floating around on ocean currents for years. Nobody knows where they are located. There are no GPS coordinates available for individual containers. They are not noted on Notice to Mariners. They have become floating mid-ocean reefs. Suppose you are crossing the Atlantic, or Pacific (both are loaded with lost containers). Deadly traps for cruising sailors. It is 2 AM in a light drizzle. Your visibility is poor. You are sailing along at about 5 to 5.5 knots. Out in front of you is such a semi-floating container, and MURPHY has located the container so that you are going to hit it. The container mass is not moving. You hit a solid wall doing 5.5 knots. Your bow easily rides over the semi-sunken container's top ledge allowing your fin keel to take the full force of the impact. Your fin keel, being the weakest part of your boat, breaks a hole in the bottom of the hull; your boat flops on its side and water starts pouring in through the hole in the hull and through the companionway. Now what?
I sailed a 1990 Island Packet 32 this past week. While not a pretty boat, the space down below was incredible for the size of boat. We sailed in 10-11 knots and 50 degrees was the sweet spot for pointing and a beam reach was a good place to be as well. The engine was the yanmar 3GM30F and it felt underpowered but we were dealing with currents. The engine enclosure muffled engine noise considerably despite not having any sound insulation at all. I did not like the older helm set-up with a lowered wheel and controls in the cockpit - not very comfortable at the helm. I would not choose this boat based on that alone. The full keel certainly created a comfortable sail but it turned like a large truck in tight spaces. I am shopping and am considering this boat in a longer version but an absolute is to have bow jet thrusters or a bow thruster - otherwise it would be near impossible to dock alone. I do like the cutter rig idea and the ability to handle heavier winds and rougher seas. It's on the short list for me as a potential future cruiser. I would want something newer with the 316L chainplates.
Thanks for the review. I have a 1990 IP 35 SeaEagle and love the boat. All designs are floating compromises and important questions must be answered before purchasing any cruising sailboat. I give the IP 35 five stars as a great overall cruiser. Safety, comfort, and value rule the day!
Packets are GREAT blue water cruising boats, definitely worth the money, I'd put them on a par with Pacific Seacraft/Westsail and your Swedish brands like Hallberg Rassy and Najad, I'd be inclined to include Hans Christian and the Perry designed Ta Shing/Chiao's and all other boats built by the Ta Shing yard in Taiwan, that includes a lot of very highly regarded cruising boats eg Mason's. I'd definitely put the Packets in the cutaway foot long keel integrated rudder mould as opposed to full keel. Definitely a candidate for bow and stern thrusters, and most definitely a true blue water boat that won't let you down
They have a new design, I took a factory tour 4 months ago and they were so nice and decided to include me and Kathy on the watch build, which are a small group of new incoming IP owners, the company is very excited about their new boat, I got emails from the build with photos every month just like it was my boat, they started building on it back in March and for weeks ago we received a video invite to fly back down for sea trials, but unfortunately I could not get off work, but Hull #1 of the new IP is in the water with some super serious improvements your gonna be amazed!
Spot on, Tim. IP is the top of our liveaboard cruisers wish list... the price tag hurts a bit, but you're absolutely right - they appear to be worth it and I have yet to read anything negative about them other than some groups call them the "old folks boat" because they are a bit slower. That's okay, I'll be an "old folk" by the time I get to have one. LOL IP has been at the top of our liveaboard cruiser list for some time. I can't see many other boats taking that place with everything you get from IP for the liveaboard cruising lifestyle - particularly for island sailing. Not sure we'll be able to afford one, but we'll sure have to try!
I've never owned one so I don't think I am biased. But several people I respect think that the best sailboat is an older Hinckley. Right now there is a Hinckley 42 Ketch for sale for $85,000; a Hinckley Bermuda 40 Yawl for $169,000; and a Hinckley 41 Sloop for $98,000. Hinckley boats are very well made and well designed. Also look at the Pacific Seacraft sailboats.
Yes to this! I have a Pacific Seacraft 37 Cutter and love it! Some day (soon I hope) I will pull the trigger on either a Shannon 43 or a Valiant 42. Either way, a winner in their own way!
@@markettrader911 I’ve looked up the definition of yacht and there’s plenty of them. I was kinda hoping my Ericsson 27 was one but it didn’t qualify unless I spent a shitload making the interior a palace instead of a live aboard
I run the coast 4-600 miles off shore and I blow by boats in my IP. LOVE my boat and to echo another comment below, people always end up in my boat at the end of the day. This was great. Thank you!
Loosing a couple of knots during cruise is not an issue, comfort and safety are. beside the great points you mentioned, Island Packet's hull is made of solid glass and the stringers are molded to it, just like Mason sail boats. Thanks for the honest opinion...
You said "IPs won't be winning any races." True for running the buoys in a harbor, but they do quite well in long distance blue water races... especially single handed races.
Thank you, I am going to buy a boat this year. I can not afford to buy a catamaran. I can afford to by a well built well cared for monohull. I plan to sail the west coast and down to baja and into the sea of cortez to start. Thanks for your information.
I can only comment on the Island p's of the mid 80's but iI think they used steel for ballast and used only about 5 layers of fiberglass on their hull as opposed to Cape Dory which used one piece of molded lead and about 10+ layers of glass, I had in my hand both cut-outs from thru hulls, you could count the layers..
That was a really well-balanced overview and I agree that keel choice needs to be determined at the beginning of boat shopping. I have to admit that I am a full keel fan. The ease at which a full keel boat can heave to in heavy weather is an extra measure of safety that I find compelling.
Great historical information on the birth of the Island Packet and yes, it was like the Bermuda sailing go to boat but the best cruising boat made is the Exploration series from Garcia, specifically the Exploration 52. They're a go anywhere boat, that's not a GRP. The Exploration concept is a result of the influence of a long-distance navigator, Jimmy Cornell, his expertise, passion of the Garcia Yachts team and one of the greatest French naval architects with them Olivier Racoupeau.
Just discovered your vlog. Love it! Your knowledge of sailing and sailboats is amazing. I'm learning and I've sailed for years. I subscribed and look forward to following you.
While also being able to go in shallow water, full keels are a lot better when they do actually hit the bottom as well. We've ran aground a number of times aboard my parents Cape Dory 36, but I've heard many stories of fin keels snapping right off after hitting bottom.
I agree. They are extremely well designed and made. Well they are not racy but they are not the slowest boat around. Btw they do have a sister boat call Blue Jacket. These are built to the same stand with a finn keel. I seriously looked at getting one.
A very thorough and comprehensive review. Exemplary review! I'm looking at yachts, and occasionally sailing with friends at BYC Newport Beach. I am infatuated with shoal draft, blue water cruisers, which are very uncommon in Southern California. Thank you, so much for making this video. I am liking and subscribing without reviewing anything else. Fair winds and following seas, my friend.
Very cool! I learned something....thanks. If I wasn’t a trawler guy I would definitely put one of these on my list. Love the history and solid nature of the boat. For what it’s worth you look good....healthy. Don’t lose that new girl of yours....she is good for you 😝.
Good job on your research and a lot more deeper than I did. All said I love the quilty of the vessel and the craftsmanship, speed is not my thing I'm built for comfort not speed, I was a long range trawler person because of the world economy I'm looking for comfort and economy . Thanks for your time and information God bless stay safe on your travels
I see the frequency of the word "Quality" is used to describe the IP. Quality in design, finish, space, practicality and "usability' (use). Simply, quality, will always sell & sell well. Was hoping to see a comment or comparison on survivability of a grounding or "bottom bump & rub" as a factor of positive or negative choice for the typical IP's. The use of steel as ballast has me wondering if there are any boats with a solid steel billet as it's ballast & keel bottom plate?
The United States Naval Academy and Michigan are the two best Naval Architecture Schools and the Webb Institute for Ocean Engineering. A Naval Architect works on naval vessel design, quality control, maintenance, and construction. No other profession exposes an architect to such a broad range of advances. The Naval Architecture Cadre provides a good opportunity to stay current with shipbuilding technologies. Just FYI.
I have the first 36’ Island Packet Craft Express twin screw power boat made in 2002 . “Flying Star” Such quality although they only made 25 of them very lucky to have one.
I am looking for a world cruiser and Island Packet is at the top of the list. However, as a fan of Sailing La Vagabond, I can see the argument for a catamaran too. It's going to be a really tough decision. In the meantime I'm just sailing my 2009 Hunter 38 off the Southern California coast and to the various Channel Islands and learning.
1st, I appreciate your informed opinions and excellent videos. I am the proud owner of a 1979 CSY 44 cutter, shoal draft walk-over. I am probably bias, but Wind Gypsy is an amazing boat. Extremely strong, safe and seaworthy, simple to operate. Also well appointed: 400 gal fresh water, 100 gal diesel, 85 hp Perkins that sips fuel and move a 35k boat at 6 knots easily. Are you familiar with CSY story?
Great video. I've been looking at a lot of Island Packet videos lately and love the build quality and features. Thanks for sharing the backsrory and discussing Keel designs.
I am a former owner of a Irwin 45 and some of the lines of both boats seem to connect, i learned something new. I enjoyed this video. You produce some very good videos. 😁🛫
Long vs. fin is an age old(well at least since the 1960s) discussion. But there is another type. The long fin keel with a separate rudder / skeg combination. This type of keel offers the advantages of shallower draft and good tracking and the better performance that comes from less wetted surface. If mated to a hull design with slacker bilges and garboards it can also be very sea kindly something rarely talked about these days.
I bought an IP38 in 1986 and I was very, very happy with it. It was strong, capable, comfortable, and yes, FAST. I would not consider another cruising boat. Island Packet was also a great company under Bob Johnson. I am not familiar with the new owners.
@@tonyoreilly7196 I have decided to wait and do more research. I was seriously looking at an IP 485. But now I'm thinking possibly at something a bit smaller after seeing a few of your videos. We are interested in space and comfort not speed. Previously you had suggested a smaller IP, so...........
As a boatbuilder/sailer I've worked on a number of Ip's through the yard. Whilst I agree the boat is generally well found and far superior in build quality to many of the lightweight yachts built over here in Europe they do have issues to be aware of. My No1 gripe is the sterngland, in fact the one you squatted down next to at the beginning of your video is a classic example. Not a good design, very weak sterntube fit with a long unsupported distance between the stern tube and the gearbox coupling. The glass at the exit point is not very thick, the two bolts holding the stern tube in place are fully threaded and should be shouldered and the small inadequate internal washers should be discarded and replaced with a suitable backing plate. I also dislike the idea of using ss bolts through the hull for such an important fitting due to the risk of crevis corrosion. I urge any owners to really inspect the sterntube fitting as this is a potential serious leak point. No2 the ballast is cast Iron and is encapsulated with GRP. This is ok until water gets into the deep bilge where the cast iron rusts, expands and can then burst through the grp. No3 The through deck chainplates can and do leak over time, water runs down to the chainplates and follow the chainplate bolts into the plywood bulkheads and as some of these are again encapsulated in GRP, the water has nowhere to go. As a result the bulkhead will rot out over time. The grp will look ok on the outside but inside I have seen the chainplate attachment points turn to mush.
I live in the NE USA - iron in an encapsulated keel experiences expansion and contraction when you are pulling the boat and having winter on the hard! The Cold warm cold warm of air can make separations of the iron from the glass. Some of the Alberg 30's in my neighborhood have this and experience as weeping keel. I am headed towards the Bristol 27 - LEAD! Keel bolts for me are just a source of paranoia and anxiety!
Also met an IP awaiting new chain plates. I asked the owner what material were they made from as I did not expect this on a relatively new IP. The reply of 409 SS was a surprise, exactly the wrong decision on the part of IP.
Some Island Packets do have chainplate issues, however no Island Packets have chain plates fibreglassed to plywood. None. And the Chainplates were originally 304.
@@joannshuttleworth6359 Island Packet originally used 304 SS for their chainplates, they moved to 316 SS in the mid 1990's when they introduced the 3 number series. If an IP owner thinks they have 409 SS they are mistaken, and Edward Finn on the comment above is 100% correct, there is no IP with chainplates mounted to plywood, they are fully encapsulated in the hull. Does this make them difficult to replace? It sure does! Which is why we are having Garhauer make our replacements for our 1994 IP 35 out of 6/4 Titanium for our chainplate refit next year. Personally, I think the factory should ditch SS for their chainplates as well, TI is not a significant increase in cost at this point, but, I only get to make those decisions on my boat. The original comment on this thread by Mike Pickles brings up a good point about the stern tube. We pulled ours last year when replacing the cutlass bearing and were not too thrilled about the backing washers. We fashioned a backing pate for our through bolts, which we also replaced at the time. I disagree on the glass though, at least on the 35, there is plenty of hull thickness where the stern tube mounts.
@@edwardfinn4141 I have seen that some bulkheads are sheathed with grp and the chainplate bolted through, on top of the grp. However the bolt holes allow access to moisture running between the chainplate and the bulkhead and then follows the thread into the wood.
Agree with many of the comments regarding these well researched, high quality videos. Thanks Tim. Another candidate ... Shannon Yachts in Bristol, RI. Great cruising boats (think Beth Leonard, Evans Starzinger and Silk) and good brokerage market prices. Owner, iconic Walt Schultz, and the company story are also interesting.
Self-tacking jibs are Much less work to sail & easier when you are short handed or tired. Perfect for cruising and for storm sails. Doesn’t work for Genoa’s BC the track must be forward of the mast, so only smaller sails will work
Another great video Tim. You're really hitting it out of the park while living "on the hard". Never heard of this brand before but after watching this video I wouldn't hesitate to buy one(if I could afford it). Please keep up the good work and look forward to seeing more from you in the future. After viewing this I checked out their web site and wish I hadn't seen the IP525 !!! What a beast that thing is. If I win the lottery I'm buying one and you get free passage on it when you want. Best wishes.
This was very fair. I have owned two IP boats. A 29 and a 320. the 29:was the best boat I have ever owned I loved it. ( I have owned 14 sailboats) The 320 was also a great boat but the 29 was more fun to sail. Yes some say the IP’s are slow, Duh, they are a cruising boat. What do you expect? If you want a fast boat buy a POS production boat. That is my take on it.
Keep up these videos of sailboats! My wife and I are planning on selling (or giving away, who knows...) our Catalina 25 (SV Yemoja) in about 5 years and buy an old liveaboard cruiser. We have been looking at Island Packet, Catalina, Pearson, and a few more. Especially from the years of well-built tanks (like Late 60's Pearsons). These videos have helped get us some good info. Great work!
I have been sailing in both a pogo and an RM and think that flat bottom with hard chine is just as comfortable in a passage and probably even more. As soon as you get up on a plane the rides easy. Not sure why cruisers types shy from them because they have so much beam they make fantastic cruisers..
I am wondering... On an Island Packet. Where do you sleep when on a passage? The forward and rear berths usually have weird shapes that look unusable when heeled.
I remember someone saying, "A boat with a fin keel is ment to outrun the storm, but a boat with a full keel is ment to endure the storm." I've been looking to get a boat for some time and I hear most everyone saying that if I want a cruiser that tough, sturdy and safe get one with a full keel, something along the lines of an Alberg 35.
Re Alberg 35’s . Funny coincidence , I just purchased one. And I had a IP 35. The Alberg is a very solid blue water cruiser. Some fibreglass issues on the deck, but a very solid, seaworthy hull.
Good video - well considered and presented. I'm looking for a 36-40' boat to build my sailing skills up to doing some blue water crossings. In a few days I'm going to look at a couple of Island Packets. So your video is really helpful. (I looked at a Marlow Hunter 40 that I think is inside a 34 footer. The frunk on my Tesla has more headroom than the aft cabin (shelf?)) I'm also coming at this from an odd direction, I've drunk the multihull Kool-aid, have a cat ordered that won't be ready for two more years. So I thought why not get a mono-hull in the meantime. Do a ton of sailing, maybe get a captain's license before I go pick up my cat. (You know - if you never date the sister there'll be all those family events where you wonder if you married the wrong sibling.... ) But the Island Packer seems to be kind of a mono-hull's mono-hull. Definitely old school (Joshua Slocum would probably be nervous on anything else.) But if it's a comfy as you say, why not give it a go? I'll look to see if you have other videos on other boats that might work for me.
I like the IP as an abstract concept, but if you want a full keel cruiser with internal ballast, Cabo Ricos are so much prettier (at least in my opinion).
Big IP fan. They are heavy, but very stable boats. Speed definitely isn't their thing and I do wish they were a bit faster, but I probably wouldn't trade the other great characteristics for a little bit of speed. I'll be interested to charter a BlueJacket when they're available.
Great video, the ip full keel ! Would you consider making a video about a Wing keel? My favorite. A really wide one, at that. I would just love to hear your opinion on it though. Thanks much!!
One reasons wing keels are not popular in FL & the ICW is BC if (when) you run around, the wing gets sucked into the mud & is very hard to pull it back out.
We own a 2006 IP440 and it is hands down the most complete, well thought out, well built cruiser out there. Safety, security and comfort are priceless anywhere in the world. Good video Tim
The word BEST is an opinion. I have seen a couple of IPs on the slips. Big boats they appeared to be. I am like so many people with limited money and limited time to maintain my boat. Anything with to much timber is either a problem now or in the future. Full length keel does not impress me. Better more efficient options. Lighter options are not necessarily less strong. lighter so you can sail faster with smaller rigs and less weight in the rigging and keels so you have the same righting moment as heavies. Rigs with very wide spreaders and chain plates through the top edge of the hull and twin backstays and inner forestays. Lots of great modern yachts out there. Its not initial cost i think about but maintenance to keep them in great shape. There is NO best yacht just one that most suits your pocket and you and how you want to live.
Great info as always! We have a 7' draft Catalina 380 with the fin keel. They come in either fin or wing, but ours was raced so it has a deep fin. Curious, you said you had a modified fin keel? How did that process go was it just cut to reduce draft? Someday, we will cruise in shallow waters and will want a shoal depth keel, but damn it if we don't love our boat, maybe we would modify too instead of getting a new boat if the process isn't too bad. Let me know what you think! We are only in our 2nd year of sailing.
I was watching a regatta on the Chesapeake rounding sting ray point near Deltaville. It was a blustery day and most of the hunter’s, Catalina’s and Beneteau’s were close hauled practically sailing on their sides. The crew of these various boats were hanging on for dear life!! There was one island packet in the group and although he wasn’t in the lead, the boat was upright and the crew looked very relaxed. I turned to my wife and said, “honey, that’s why we own an island packet.”
I love this comment! Just shared it with my wife too :))
Ps: We are on IP 32 out of DVL too
@Rendezvous With The Ramey Family my guess for the expense variation will revolve around the keel and extra labour intensive features? the way they laminate ..which engines. i love both as well as shannon & halberg rassy... looking at resale values alone is how i have arrived here. and they just so happen to be all class.
That literally doesn’t mean a thing
Comfortabel sailing boat 😊🎉❤
I worked for island packet building interiors way back. Top notch skilled workers that take lots of pride in their work for sure.
I have an IP 350. It has a lead ballast, and is integral to the keel. I especially like the keel and rudder skeg- I accidently ran over a telephone pole-like tree and it rolled completely under me causing no damage. A spade rudder design may have had a different outcome. I also like the "old school" shaft (as opposed to the sail drive) and the close proximity of the rudder to the prop. It handles just fine in the marina and a little shot of power makes the rudder effective. I can handle the sails entirely from the cockpit, and the deck is great for going forward. Overall I think it is one of the finest cruiser type sailboats on the market- but I will concede I am biased.
How does it do maneuvering in a marina? How about reversing at slow speeds? My wife and I are thinking of buying an IP, the maneuverability concerns me a bit but I haven't had any experience sailing full keel boats, only fin keel.
We are full time cruisers on Island Packet 40.The amount of time actually underway opposed to living aboard is less than 5 percent which means the comfort and stoutness in a seaway FAR outweighs the “slow” argument.
We have passed many fin keels that were deeply reefed on a blustery day.
At anchor everyone comes to our spacious boat for sundowners.
T Knox how about putting some videos up, or if you do link us
@@fairwind8222 hi, we are in the process of purchasing an IP420 here in the UK. We are a mature, ( read old) couple who are returning to sailing and intend to document our travels. We hope to give an insight into sailing in retirement years, to include boat and travel tips and observations. Advise on anchorage’s, and marinas, ( suitability, what they have to offer and in the case of marinas, costs). And yes, the negative points as well. Our aim is, first and foremost to have FUN, and hopefully we can bring a smile or two along the way. We are a couple of months away, and of course where we go to first depends on current restrictions. But hopefully Norway or the Baltic this summer. We hope you come along for the journey.
That’s great, we will be with you from our living room!
Your big boat? My Baltic 67 is a big boat lol
@Jason B. I’m rich too
I had the opportunity of delivering an Island Packet 27 from Seattle to San Diego a few years back and I was very impressed. This is the roomiest, best equipped boat I have ever seen in 27 feet. The boat is amazingly comfortable in a seaway and even in pretty foul stuff up around Moro Bay it was a great sail. I would say this is absolutely one of the best small cruisers out there.
I grew up on a IP 26 MkII. Great boat. Made it easy to learn to sail. My dad and I took it all over the Chesapeake Bay and never had any issues.
Great video, thanks for taking the time to make it! I agree 100% with your advice to viewers to decide what kind of keel they want early in the boat selection process. I made the decision to go with full keel for the sake of sea kindliness and ruggedness. I wound up in an Island Packet 38 and have never regretted the decision, esp when in rough weather. I've traded off about 1/2 knot of speed. 10 degrees of pointing to weather, and have zero maneuverability around the docks in a marina - it's worth it when you're offshore and get caught in a surprise gale.
If I had to do it again, and didn't sail any more than an hour from land, I might buy a less expensive boat. Potential cruisers who are starting out would do well to look at the Island Packet 31 - a go-anywhere offshore boat at a relatively affordable price.
Here is another reason why you never want to go to sea with a fin keeled boat. Ever since containers became the easiest shipping method, and container ships were built bigger and bigger, they have a nasty propensity for losing containers overboard in heavy weather. To give you an actual number; in a recent container loss during a storm, 750 containers went overboard from just one ship. The containers that sink pose no problem to navigation, but many containers contain things that float; i.e., the containers may be barely floating around on ocean currents for years. Nobody knows where they are located. There are no GPS coordinates available for individual containers. They are not noted on Notice to Mariners. They have become floating mid-ocean reefs. Suppose you are crossing the Atlantic, or Pacific (both are loaded with lost containers). Deadly traps for cruising sailors. It is 2 AM in a light drizzle. Your visibility is poor. You are sailing along at about 5 to 5.5 knots. Out in front of you is such a semi-floating container, and MURPHY has located the container so that you are going to hit it. The container mass is not moving. You hit a solid wall doing 5.5 knots. Your bow easily rides over the semi-sunken container's top ledge allowing your fin keel to take the full force of the impact. Your fin keel, being the weakest part of your boat, breaks a hole in the bottom of the hull; your boat flops on its side and water starts pouring in through the hole in the hull and through the companionway.
Now what?
I sailed a 1990 Island Packet 32 this past week. While not a pretty boat, the space down below was incredible for the size of boat. We sailed in 10-11 knots and 50 degrees was the sweet spot for pointing and a beam reach was a good place to be as well. The engine was the yanmar 3GM30F and it felt underpowered but we were dealing with currents. The engine enclosure muffled engine noise considerably despite not having any sound insulation at all. I did not like the older helm set-up with a lowered wheel and controls in the cockpit - not very comfortable at the helm. I would not choose this boat based on that alone. The full keel certainly created a comfortable sail but it turned like a large truck in tight spaces. I am shopping and am considering this boat in a longer version but an absolute is to have bow jet thrusters or a bow thruster - otherwise it would be near impossible to dock alone. I do like the cutter rig idea and the ability to handle heavier winds and rougher seas. It's on the short list for me as a potential future cruiser. I would want something newer with the 316L chainplates.
thanks for the info. U left out another plus of full keel, protects the rudder. knocking ur rudder off is no fun
Thanks for the review. I have a 1990 IP 35 SeaEagle and love the boat. All designs are floating compromises and important questions must be answered before purchasing any cruising sailboat. I give the IP 35 five stars as a great overall cruiser. Safety, comfort, and value rule the day!
Savety, quality and comfortable that counts for me. My choice always be IP. Thanks for all your videos.
Packets are GREAT blue water cruising boats, definitely worth the money, I'd put them on a par with Pacific Seacraft/Westsail and your Swedish brands like Hallberg Rassy and Najad, I'd be inclined to include Hans Christian and the Perry designed Ta Shing/Chiao's and all other boats built by the Ta Shing yard in Taiwan, that includes a lot of very highly regarded cruising boats eg Mason's. I'd definitely put the Packets in the cutaway foot long keel integrated rudder mould as opposed to full keel.
Definitely a candidate for bow and stern thrusters, and most definitely a true blue water boat that won't let you down
They have a new design, I took a factory tour 4 months ago and they were so nice and decided to include me and Kathy on the watch build, which are a small group of new incoming IP owners, the company is very excited about their new boat, I got emails from the build with photos every month just like it was my boat, they started building on it back in March and for weeks ago we received a video invite to fly back down for sea trials, but unfortunately I could not get off work, but Hull #1 of the new IP is in the water with some super serious improvements your gonna be amazed!
Spot on, Tim. IP is the top of our liveaboard cruisers wish list... the price tag hurts a bit, but you're absolutely right - they appear to be worth it and I have yet to read anything negative about them other than some groups call them the "old folks boat" because they are a bit slower. That's okay, I'll be an "old folk" by the time I get to have one. LOL IP has been at the top of our liveaboard cruiser list for some time. I can't see many other boats taking that place with everything you get from IP for the liveaboard cruising lifestyle - particularly for island sailing. Not sure we'll be able to afford one, but we'll sure have to try!
Love my Bombay Clipper 31 down here in FL.
YES, they are the best, but stop telling people, I haven't bought mine yet!
Same!!
Ditto. Motorsailer for me. Love that foredeck. Love that kitchen.
Haha love this comment 😂🙏⛵️
Love our IP 485, oh and I've flown that F-15C (83-026) that you showed at the beginning!
Yea right !@!@
@@Hello_ok_bye_mk There's not many F-15Cs and I flew them for 10 years so I've probably flown it if it's a recent picture. Why the yea right?
Always looking at/for a 485 just a big step in life right now
I've never owned one so I don't think I am biased. But several people I respect think that the best sailboat is an older Hinckley. Right now there is a Hinckley 42 Ketch for sale for $85,000; a Hinckley Bermuda 40 Yawl for $169,000; and a Hinckley 41 Sloop for $98,000. Hinckley boats are very well made and well designed. Also look at the Pacific Seacraft sailboats.
Yes to this! I have a Pacific Seacraft 37 Cutter and love it! Some day (soon I hope) I will pull the trigger on either a Shannon 43 or a Valiant 42. Either way, a winner in their own way!
I sailed the IP27 from 1991 to 2001, what a great yacht.
27 is not a yacht by definition. 50 feet buddy
@@markettrader911 I’ve looked up the definition of yacht and there’s plenty of them.
I was kinda hoping my Ericsson 27 was one but it didn’t qualify unless I spent a shitload making the interior a palace instead of a live aboard
I run the coast 4-600 miles off shore and I blow by boats in my IP. LOVE my boat and to echo another comment below, people always end up in my boat at the end of the day. This was great. Thank you!
Loosing a couple of knots during cruise is not an issue, comfort and safety are. beside the great points you mentioned, Island Packet's hull is made of solid glass and the stringers are molded to it, just like Mason sail boats. Thanks for the honest opinion...
You said "IPs won't be winning any races." True for running the buoys in a harbor, but they do quite well in long distance blue water races... especially single handed races.
Thank you, I am going to buy a boat this year. I can not afford to buy a catamaran. I can afford to by a well built well cared for monohull. I plan to sail the west coast and down to baja and into the sea of cortez to start. Thanks for your information.
Negative - glassed in chain plates. They just debuted the new 439. Looks great.
I can only comment on the Island p's of the mid 80's but iI think they used steel for ballast and used only about 5 layers of fiberglass on their hull as opposed to Cape Dory which used one piece of molded lead and about 10+ layers of glass, I had in my hand both cut-outs from thru hulls, you could count the layers..
That was a really well-balanced overview and I agree that keel choice needs to be determined at the beginning of boat shopping. I have to admit that I am a full keel fan. The ease at which a full keel boat can heave to in heavy weather is an extra measure of safety that I find compelling.
Great historical information on the birth of the Island Packet and yes, it was like the Bermuda sailing go to boat but the best cruising boat made is the Exploration series from Garcia, specifically the Exploration 52. They're a go anywhere boat, that's not a GRP. The Exploration concept is a result of the influence of a long-distance navigator, Jimmy Cornell, his expertise, passion of the Garcia Yachts team and one of the greatest French naval architects with them Olivier Racoupeau.
Just discovered your vlog. Love it! Your knowledge of sailing and sailboats is amazing. I'm learning and I've sailed for years. I subscribed and look forward to following you.
Excellent video. I always appreciate someone who can remain unbiased in their review!
I always liked them.. great reputation
While also being able to go in shallow water, full keels are a lot better when they do actually hit the bottom as well. We've ran aground a number of times aboard my parents Cape Dory 36, but I've heard many stories of fin keels snapping right off after hitting bottom.
I agree. They are extremely well designed and made. Well they are not racy but they are not the slowest boat around. Btw they do have a sister boat call Blue Jacket. These are built to the same stand with a finn keel. I seriously looked at getting one.
A very thorough and comprehensive review. Exemplary review! I'm looking at yachts, and occasionally sailing with friends at BYC Newport Beach. I am infatuated with shoal draft, blue water cruisers, which are very uncommon in Southern California. Thank you, so much for making this video. I am liking and subscribing without reviewing anything else. Fair winds and following seas, my friend.
What to say thanks for helping me decide that the Island Packet is the boat for me. Great channel!
great discussion. Thanks for the food for thought
Very cool! I learned something....thanks. If I wasn’t a trawler guy I would definitely put one of these on my list. Love the history and solid nature of the boat. For what it’s worth you look good....healthy. Don’t lose that new girl of yours....she is good for you 😝.
I love watching your stuff, and I can't wait to see you get back out there!
Great episode Tim. Very well researched and presented.
Looking to buy my first boat and use it as a live aboard/cruiser. This boat caught my eye from the beggining. Great info as always!
😀 Very good presentation on the Island Packet✌
I own a 31' Bombay Clipper fully keel, it's not the fastest boat, but it does have LOT'S of space, and it's built very well
I asked about this vessel a couple of weeks ago my research very cool blue water
Good job on your research and a lot more deeper than I did. All said I love the quilty of the vessel and the craftsmanship, speed is not my thing I'm built for comfort not speed, I was a long range trawler person because of the world economy I'm looking for comfort and economy . Thanks for your time and information God bless stay safe on your travels
Thanks for the honest review. What's coming first on board is safety. Therefore IP is my choice. Fair winds.
I see the frequency of the word "Quality" is used to describe the IP. Quality in design, finish, space, practicality and "usability' (use). Simply, quality, will always sell & sell well. Was hoping to see a comment or comparison on survivability of a grounding or "bottom bump & rub" as a factor of positive or negative choice for the typical IP's. The use of steel as ballast has me wondering if there are any boats with a solid steel billet as it's ballast & keel bottom plate?
The United States Naval Academy and Michigan are the two best Naval Architecture Schools and the Webb Institute for Ocean Engineering. A Naval Architect works on naval vessel design, quality control, maintenance, and construction. No other profession exposes an architect to such a broad range of advances. The Naval Architecture Cadre provides a good opportunity to stay current with shipbuilding technologies. Just FYI.
I have the first 36’ Island Packet Craft Express twin screw power boat made in 2002 . “Flying Star”
Such quality although they only made 25 of them very lucky to have one.
Excellent video. I love Island Packets
I am looking for a world cruiser and Island Packet is at the top of the list. However, as a fan of Sailing La Vagabond, I can see the argument for a catamaran too. It's going to be a really tough decision. In the meantime I'm just sailing my 2009 Hunter 38 off the Southern California coast and to the various Channel Islands and learning.
1st, I appreciate your informed opinions and excellent videos. I am the proud owner of a 1979 CSY 44 cutter, shoal draft walk-over. I am probably bias, but Wind Gypsy is an amazing boat. Extremely strong, safe and seaworthy, simple to operate. Also well appointed: 400 gal fresh water, 100 gal diesel, 85 hp Perkins that sips fuel and move a 35k boat at 6 knots easily. Are you familiar with CSY story?
Great video. I've been looking at a lot of Island Packet videos lately and love the build quality and features. Thanks for sharing the backsrory and discussing Keel designs.
I am a former owner of a Irwin 45 and some of the lines of both boats seem to connect, i learned something new. I enjoyed this video.
You produce some very good videos. 😁🛫
Another great video. I like how the theme song played straight through while you did the intro. Good work.
So glad you finally posted a video on Island Packet Sailboats. I plan on purchasing an Island Packet in the near future 🇺🇸👍😎😍
Long vs. fin is an age old(well at least since the 1960s) discussion. But there is another type. The long fin keel with a separate rudder / skeg combination. This type of keel offers the advantages of shallower draft and good tracking and the better performance that comes from less wetted surface. If mated to a hull design with slacker bilges and garboards it can also be very sea kindly something rarely talked about these days.
I bought an IP38 in 1986 and I was very, very happy with it. It was strong, capable, comfortable, and yes, FAST. I would not consider another cruising boat. Island Packet was also a great company under Bob Johnson. I am not familiar with the new owners.
Very good overview on these models of the this great design boat.
Appreciate the overview.
Plethora of information Kudos!!!!
Thank you so very much for this content, you have assisted me with my boat purchase!
What did you get may I ask?
@@tonyoreilly7196 I have decided to wait and do more research. I was seriously looking at an IP 485. But now I'm thinking possibly at something a bit smaller after seeing a few of your videos. We are interested in space and comfort not speed. Previously you had suggested a smaller IP, so...........
Thanks Tim. Enjoyed this take.
As a boatbuilder/sailer I've worked on a number of Ip's through the yard.
Whilst I agree the boat is generally well found and far superior in build quality to many of the lightweight yachts built over here in Europe they do have issues to be aware of.
My No1 gripe is the sterngland, in fact the one you squatted down next to at the beginning of your video is a classic example.
Not a good design, very weak sterntube fit with a long unsupported distance between the stern tube and the gearbox coupling.
The glass at the exit point is not very thick, the two bolts holding the stern tube in place are fully threaded and should be shouldered and the small inadequate internal washers should be discarded and replaced with a suitable backing plate.
I also dislike the idea of using ss bolts through the hull for such an important fitting due to the risk of crevis corrosion.
I urge any owners to really inspect the sterntube fitting as this is a potential serious leak point.
No2 the ballast is cast Iron and is encapsulated with GRP. This is ok until water gets into the deep bilge where the cast iron rusts, expands and can then burst through the grp.
No3 The through deck chainplates can and do leak over time, water runs down to the chainplates and follow the chainplate bolts into the plywood bulkheads and as some of these are again encapsulated in GRP, the water has nowhere to go. As a result the bulkhead will rot out over time. The grp will look ok on the outside but inside I have seen the chainplate attachment points turn to mush.
I live in the NE USA - iron in an encapsulated keel experiences expansion and contraction when you are pulling the boat and having winter on the hard! The Cold warm cold warm of air can make separations of the iron from the glass. Some of the Alberg 30's in my neighborhood have this and experience as weeping keel. I am headed towards the Bristol 27 - LEAD! Keel bolts for me are just a source of paranoia and anxiety!
Also met an IP awaiting new chain plates. I asked the owner what material were they made from as I did not expect this on a relatively new IP. The reply of 409 SS was a surprise, exactly the wrong decision on the part of IP.
Some Island Packets do have chainplate issues, however no Island Packets have chain plates fibreglassed to plywood. None.
And the Chainplates were originally 304.
@@joannshuttleworth6359 Island Packet originally used 304 SS for their chainplates, they moved to 316 SS in the mid 1990's when they introduced the 3 number series. If an IP owner thinks they have 409 SS they are mistaken, and Edward Finn on the comment above is 100% correct, there is no IP with chainplates mounted to plywood, they are fully encapsulated in the hull.
Does this make them difficult to replace? It sure does! Which is why we are having Garhauer make our replacements for our 1994 IP 35 out of 6/4 Titanium for our chainplate refit next year. Personally, I think the factory should ditch SS for their chainplates as well, TI is not a significant increase in cost at this point, but, I only get to make those decisions on my boat.
The original comment on this thread by Mike Pickles brings up a good point about the stern tube. We pulled ours last year when replacing the cutlass bearing and were not too thrilled about the backing washers. We fashioned a backing pate for our through bolts, which we also replaced at the time. I disagree on the glass though, at least on the 35, there is plenty of hull thickness where the stern tube mounts.
@@edwardfinn4141 I have seen that some bulkheads are sheathed with grp and the chainplate bolted through, on top of the grp.
However the bolt holes allow access to moisture running between the chainplate and the bulkhead and then follows the thread into the wood.
Agree with many of the comments regarding these well researched, high quality videos. Thanks Tim.
Another candidate ... Shannon Yachts in Bristol, RI. Great cruising boats (think Beth Leonard, Evans Starzinger and Silk) and good brokerage market prices. Owner, iconic Walt Schultz, and the company story are also interesting.
Love the channel ! One thing I was hoping was explaining the self tacking jib
Self-tacking jibs are Much less work to sail & easier when you are short handed or tired. Perfect for cruising and for storm sails. Doesn’t work for Genoa’s BC the track must be forward of the mast, so only smaller sails will work
Now you have to do Pacific Seacraft
Very informative video. Thanks for sharing.
Another great video Tim. You're really hitting it out of the park while living "on the hard". Never heard of this brand before but after watching this video I wouldn't hesitate to buy one(if I could afford it). Please keep up the good work and look forward to seeing more from you in the future. After viewing this I checked out their web site and wish I hadn't seen the IP525 !!! What a beast that thing is. If I win the lottery I'm buying one and you get free passage on it when you want.
Best wishes.
Looking forward you hearing talking about Hans. Christian yachts one say. Particular the 48T
Thanks for doing the Island Packet review. Good Job.
This was very fair. I have owned two IP boats. A 29 and a 320. the 29:was the best boat I have ever owned I loved it. ( I have owned 14 sailboats) The 320 was also a great boat but the 29 was more fun to sail. Yes some say the IP’s are slow, Duh, they are a cruising boat. What do you expect? If you want a fast boat buy a POS production boat. That is my take on it.
Keep up these videos of sailboats! My wife and I are planning on selling (or giving away, who knows...) our Catalina 25 (SV Yemoja) in about 5 years and buy an old liveaboard cruiser. We have been looking at Island Packet, Catalina, Pearson, and a few more. Especially from the years of well-built tanks (like Late 60's Pearsons). These videos have helped get us some good info. Great work!
Hey Tim do a show on the Bayfield. Very interesting boat and history.
Amen brother, IP 31 , 1989 design sailing on the Chesapeake bay, people ask us if its 'brand new"
Question for you? Is an island packet 32 too small to sail across the Atlantic?
What's the rush?!!!! Thank you my bro, excellent information and insights. Comprendo totalmente. Lots of kindness from Puerto Rico. 👍🌴😎
Thanks for sharing!!!
Top notch info. Really like the channel
Great review thanks
I have been sailing in both a pogo and an RM and think that flat bottom with hard chine is just as comfortable in a passage and probably even more. As soon as you get up on a plane the rides easy. Not sure why cruisers types shy from them because they have so much beam they make fantastic cruisers..
I am wondering... On an Island Packet. Where do you sleep when on a passage? The forward and rear berths usually have weird shapes that look unusable when heeled.
I remember someone saying,
"A boat with a fin keel is ment to outrun the storm, but a boat with a full keel is ment to endure the storm."
I've been looking to get a boat for some time and I hear most everyone saying that if I want a cruiser that tough, sturdy and safe get one with a full keel, something along the lines of an Alberg 35.
You might want to look at used Calibers also.
Re Alberg 35’s . Funny coincidence , I just purchased one. And I had a IP 35.
The Alberg is a very solid blue water cruiser. Some fibreglass issues on the deck, but a very solid, seaworthy hull.
Thank you for videos
Good video - well considered and presented. I'm looking for a 36-40' boat to build my sailing skills up to doing some blue water crossings. In a few days I'm going to look at a couple of Island Packets. So your video is really helpful. (I looked at a Marlow Hunter 40 that I think is inside a 34 footer. The frunk on my Tesla has more headroom than the aft cabin (shelf?))
I'm also coming at this from an odd direction, I've drunk the multihull Kool-aid, have a cat ordered that won't be ready for two more years. So I thought why not get a mono-hull in the meantime. Do a ton of sailing, maybe get a captain's license before I go pick up my cat. (You know - if you never date the sister there'll be all those family events where you wonder if you married the wrong sibling.... ) But the Island Packer seems to be kind of a mono-hull's mono-hull. Definitely old school (Joshua Slocum would probably be nervous on anything else.) But if it's a comfy as you say, why not give it a go? I'll look to see if you have other videos on other boats that might work for me.
I like the IP as an abstract concept, but if you want a full keel cruiser with internal ballast, Cabo Ricos are so much prettier (at least in my opinion).
Excellent research and presentation! Top notch!
Any chance you could cover Nonsuch next, please?
Cheers from Toronto!
Def on the list!
Nonsuch is a great boat, but not really bluewater cruiser.
I would love to see a video on Ericson Yachts. I loved the C&C video, the Alberg and Hunter videos, as well as this installment on Island Packets
That hull looks very similar to the Bristol channel pilot cutter, What I believe to be the ultimate speed/seaworthiness design.
Big IP fan. They are heavy, but very stable boats. Speed definitely isn't their thing and I do wish they were a bit faster, but I probably wouldn't trade the other great characteristics for a little bit of speed. I'll be interested to charter a BlueJacket when they're available.
Great video, the ip full keel !
Would you consider making a video about a Wing keel? My favorite. A really wide one, at that.
I would just love to hear your opinion on it though.
Thanks much!!
One reasons wing keels are not popular in FL & the ICW is BC if (when) you run around, the wing gets sucked into the mud & is very hard to pull it back out.
good job 👏 👍
Hey Tim, I'm really enjoying this series of videos. Would you do a video on Gulf Star?
We own a 2006 IP440 and it is hands down the most complete, well thought out, well built cruiser out there. Safety, security and comfort are priceless anywhere in the world. Good video Tim
I’d love an Island Packet Estero 36 of PSC 37❤️❤️❤️!
Well done.
Take a look at the Bristol 35, designed by Ted Hood, called by some the American Swan.
The word BEST is an opinion. I have seen a couple of IPs on the slips. Big boats they appeared to be. I am like so many people with limited money and limited time to maintain my boat. Anything with to much timber is either a problem now or in the future. Full length keel does not impress me. Better more efficient options. Lighter options are not necessarily less strong. lighter so you can sail faster with smaller rigs and less weight in the rigging and keels so you have the same righting moment as heavies. Rigs with very wide spreaders and chain plates through the top edge of the hull and twin backstays and inner forestays. Lots of great modern yachts out there. Its not initial cost i think about but maintenance to keep them in great shape. There is NO best yacht just one that most suits your pocket and you and how you want to live.
The word best was used in a question. Not a fact or statement. And TH-cam videos are all opinions 🤷🏼♂️
What are your thoughts on a 27 foot center board model? How sea worthy are they?
Great info as always! We have a 7' draft Catalina 380 with the fin keel. They come in either fin or wing, but ours was raced so it has a deep fin. Curious, you said you had a modified fin keel? How did that process go was it just cut to reduce draft? Someday, we will cruise in shallow waters and will want a shoal depth keel, but damn it if we don't love our boat, maybe we would modify too instead of getting a new boat if the process isn't too bad. Let me know what you think! We are only in our 2nd year of sailing.
Island packet great sailing boat ❤🎉😊.