I've owned a Catalina 42 MKII (2 cabin, pullman berth) for 5 years now (and, as others have pointed out, it's a keel stepped mast). I agree with much of what you say. In other videos, you've made clear that you really like these boats, and they do offer many benefits, particularly for the money. It's a dream to sail, and the large cockpit is wonderful for larger crews. A couple areas where I don't necessarily agree with you are the "floating condo" description and the dismissal of the benefits of 2 heads. We like to bring guests cruising (Great Lakes), and the extra head w/ its extra holding tank is a feature that, in shopping for a boat, was of no interest to me but, having sailed it for several years, would now be difficult to be without. So nice for guests to have their own, and we can do more extended trips without visiting marinas thanks to the extra tank. But my one big gripe about this boat is the salon layout. The curved settees look very comfortable, but are incredibly impractical. Sleeping on a curved "bed" is essentially impossible. Needing to lift the table, replace the legs, reattach the table, put on a cushion that can't be stored anywhere, then reversing the procedure in the morning (often with the table legs now stuck in place) is no fun. My previous boat was an old Islander 36 that could sleep a crew more easily. The prior owner described the boat as "sails 8, sleeps 2". A few tweaks to the interior would make this so much more practical of a boat!
I’ve been a fulltime live aboard on a Catalina 42Mk2 for going on 4 years. Btw-the C42 is KEEL STEPPED. Lead Keel too. It’s a solid, simple vessel that’s easy to work on, affordable to own & makes an excellent home. She also sails very well & is an “A” rated offshore boat. I also have 2 teenage daughters & can personally attest that having 2 heads is essential in my case. I work on boats all day & both are very nice, well built boats.
May I pester you with a question: How's the headroom. As a guy who is considering a liveaboard lifestyle, I think my list of boats to consider could be dramatically reduced by throwing out all those that don't have at least 6'7" of headroom in the cabin. I'm a 6'6" guy and while I understand one spends more time sitting or lying down below, but it's still important to me to be able to stand up to cook, or to be able to run from one end of the boat to the other without having to be hunched over. The C42Mk2 seems very appealing to me, but I haven't had a chance to step on one yet. How's the headroom in her, any chance it's at least 6'7" in the majority of common areas?
@@zackhowell9047 Does "plenty" mean another 4" of clearance throughout most of the boat? I'm curious what year. I saw somewhere, not sure if accurate, that at some point in time the mfg made a change and the headroom dropped a few inches. Thanks for the input, folks!
@@tedvz Not sure exactly how muchroom is above my head but I would guess maybe 6 or 7 inches in the saloon and maybe a little less in the foreward stateroom. 3 cabin with foreward pullman.
Battleship. All the way! I spent $8000 in flights, haul-outs and failed surveys. Every Hunter, Catalina and Freedom had serious issues at survey. Deck damage, hull damage, deck damage, cracked keel, deck damage. As I was about to give up, my broker recommended an Island Packet….. which I now own! Surveyors exact words “she’s built like a battleship”! I care not about knots, I have comfort at sea and anchor with all the space I need!
Aren't you brilliant. Maybe get a real surveyor to look at that "Piglet's" chain plates-... Let us know how that battleship is going to sail without rigging. Many owners simply drill through the hull sides and add new ones on the exterior. Classy.
@@genesmith4019 I find it interesting that you could have any idea of the quality of surveyor that I hired. Your childish comment does little to change my opinion.
@@paulhicks1168 Of course it doesn't. Guys like you know it all. Don't think about those chain plates and what's involved in inspecting them correctly. You've got a survey Lol.
@@genesmith4019 Another petulant assumption, this time about me. So, I do have a survey which states”Due to fiberglassing of the chainplates to the hull, visual examination by remote fiber scope was limited to the upper portion of the internal chain plate. Radiographic examination of the fiberglassed potion showed no material loss due to Intergranular Corrosion and no structural concerns due to Stress Corrosion Cracking.” So, yet another childish comment does not change my opinion. Perhaps Tik-Tok would serve your teenage emotion state better.
Loved this episode. I am reeling with choices! I am finding that choosing the right boat is never ending, meaning that just as you make your mind up, another choice comes along!!
Yes, every boat - every one of them, is a compromise in some way or another price, size (to big, too small), features, or lack there of a "ready to go boat" or a fixer upper, etc...
Great Choice. We own a Catalina 42 MK1, 3 cabin pullman. A pretty special 42Mk1. It was Gerry Douglas's and his family's personal boat until about 4 years ago when he offered to let us buy it. He truly did keep her spotless. I'd always liked the lines of the 42, and this one is checked with a lot special items. In boom Schaeffer furling, Diesel heat, On-demand propane fired hot water, Custom Tables, Oversize Windlass, Watertight bulkhead, Gori Prop, Flir, Etc., Etc., Etc. We have sailed her quite a bit and spend a lot of time on Catalina Island. She's fast, extremely comfortable, and we are prepping her for the Baja Haha next year. She placed in the Newport to Ensenada a few times, and has been in Sail magazine, etc. While I like the Island Packet, The Catalina is a lot more maneuverable in tight quarters and easier to board. You are totally correct. We are not planning on rounding the Horn. But for our usage (Pacific coast and Mexico) she's perfect. I'm not sure about the 42 Mk2, but our mast is Keel Stepped. Love your video's. Keep them coming!!
I got stuck somewhere in between and purchased a 1987 Moody 422 , relatively fast and relatively safe with good accomodations. Don't see these boats offered much in NA , I am very happy with it. Your comparison is definitely a good guide for the novice boat shopper , the more experienced sailor knows the compromises. Any sailboat choice is always a compromise.
Very informative. You are right that the the Catalina will get into the harbor 1 hour earlier so you might think it will get a better anchorage, but it needs 2 feet more water than the Island Packet.
C42 with wing keel draws 4’ 10”. I’m not sure of the ratio, but I think the shallow draft (wing keel) outsold the performance keel by a large margin. Granted, it’s still a spade rudder and every crab pot scares the bejeezus out of you (or it should😎).
From an old cruising sailor: The ocean hasn't changed. Once you are out there, you are at the mercy of whatever the wind and ocean throw at you. Old sailboats have long keels; keel stepped masts; shrouds that fasten to the edge of the hulo, leaving decks - your working areas - free of shrouds that the racers demand; 7 degree sheeting angles. If I have to learn to play a harp before I can carry a box of beer bottle down my deck, I want no part of that boat. If you want a party boat - 30 feet long that sleeps 6 - where do you store their clothes? ... food to feed them all? .... can they all stand up in the cabin at the same time? .... A good sailboat has to be a very elegant trade-off between boat requirements for being a safe and efficient sailer under all conditions, and adequate storage requirements for food, crew, and boat equipment. I must have a keel stepped mast, and be a long keel vessel. I want no spade rudders or propellers hanging out there waiting to catch a lobster trap warp, or fish net. Believe me, it will happen, and according to MURPHY' Law at the worst time possible. Boat design fashions change - the sea doesn't change
I am very glad you wrote this peirce, you have confirmed to me that I will buy a full keel heavy cruiser. Choi Lee, Hans Christian. ?? Help me out. Thanks for your time, Dean.
Apples and oranges. I owned a Catalina 34 for 5 years before I went to the dark side with a trawler. Lots of miles in the ICW so decided to get out of the cockpit and up on a fly bridge. Island Packets are a niche boat for sailors that dream of going offshore, blue water., and maybe don’t. These are the same people who'd would buy a Range Rover for his one day a year he’s going to drive off paved roads, vs getting a 4WD Subaru.
Agree with your basic idea of 'what suits you best?". I love Island Packets. They look like what a sailboat should look like. But I'm on my second Catalina and I'm all in. For the money it checks the boxes. I'm not crossing oceans and instead I need the floating condo and comfort to suit my lifestyle. Catalinas are all about comfort in a coastal cruising context on a budget.
Great video! We own a 2005 Island Packet and love it. Your analysis was fair and accurate. Yes the other boats would get to the anchorages a little faster and have first choice for the select spots. However, one point you may have over looked. Our Island Packet sailboat has a shoal draft of 4' 4". So yes the Catalina will get there a few minutes earlier but when we get there we can sneak around most sailboats and get closer to shore for the best and most protected anchorages. 😉
I see a lot of people crossing the Atlantic in production sailboats. Their goal is more than crossing from east to west or west to east. The end result is island hopping, the Caribbean, or locations hopping, the Med. I wonder what boat might be the best compromise boat, as close t bulletproof as possible and still a near condo on the water. People might just like to hear your opinion.
I met a floatilla of cruisers all with Island packets (One Cheoy Lee) and at the bar one night they all agreed that they wish they had spent less on the boat and had more money to travel. You also pay a ton for the Island Packet and resale is not that easy. There are other choices aside from catalina. Deals are to be had out there outside the battle ship or the clorox bottle.
For the type of sailing I’m looking to do (and it seems to be very similar to your goals) I have to admit that the spade rudder on the Cat concerns me. The skeg hung rudder on the IP seems to be more ready to weather the inevitable grounding that the Gulf Coast/Caribbean is subject to.
I agree. That is a failing point in the design. Lady K I think is best of both. Modified fin and a skeg. I'll try to find a model that does that design to talk about too.
When I think about sailing around South Florida and the Bahamas, I always get concerned with grounding. I know it will happen, I just don't know when, and I don't know how bad it will be. For that reason, and that reason alone, I want to avoid bolted on fin keels. IPs are designed for this kind of sailing. Shoal keel that is sometimes bolted, depending on the IP, but is always encapsulated. They almost seem designed to take an occasional hard grounding.
I love your insight and knowledge. One thing I think many people miss is how the boat was treated. I am currently in S. Carolina tied up next to two Cabo Ricos that look like death. My 36 Catalina (freshwater boat for 40 years) is going places. She fills all my needs 6 for cocktails, 4 for dinner, and 2 for sleeping. While repeating 8 knots on passages. Why have a battleship when Destroyers are an option.
ALL CAPS COMMENT!!! As always you provide pragmatic and transparent thoughts on some (very) "religious" topics. Well done, sir. Well done, indeed. Look for me joining your Patreon once I clean up my existing commitments. Thanks for what you do here.
IP-380 'LoonaTech' owner here... I was pleasently surprised to see my boat's pictures used here. I've had her since 2008 where I bought her on Lake Erie from a retiring IP sailor. Sailing on a lake that never gives up its dead made our boat buying decision real easy... that and she's a 100% freshwater boat!
I just bought my live aboard.i bought a Malo 96/34 not very common boat. But it got the essentials I want. Integrated long fin keel, small skeg to protect the rudder, high quality built and some insulation with balsa coor in hull and superstructure
Great video! Your right about the Island Packet. It’s a tank and very slow Island Packets are made in Largo Florida and a few miles away was the Catalina factory which burned down. Your right on the money with your video! And your thee o Lu one that has ever talked about meeting a shipping container in the water. It’s amazing how many fall off ships every year!
great comparison! Thank you. We learned to sail on a Catalina 22, then a 30 years ago. We have been drooling over the IPY, but I totally agree on all of your points. Battleship vs Condo.
It's so good to see you I used to watch your original Lady K videos and I saw the last one shortly after your breakup . And then you disappeared and now I see you again I have a lot of catching up to do I don't know how you disappeared on my feed. I am more of a power boater than a sailor, although I've done both and I've also raced. When I think of a Catalina I think of the powerboat counterpart being something like a Bayliner it is low quality looks decent it's not going to last and it's fragile if that's a good way to put it. I have been out on island packets and they are like a Bertram or a Hatteras. A Kia SUV or a GMC Yukon
To each their own. For me I want ocean crossing in a tank and the wilder the seas the better. But that’s me I spent most of my adult life driving semi on ice roads and hilly back roads so scared crapless is excitement to me. Good luck tonight. See you next week🍻
Great video as usual! I have a 1994 IP40 I bought June 2021 so she's still new to me and I have lots of plans for upgrades. Just had a set back due to a knee issue and a couple of other things, but hoping to get back to her in a few weeks. Mine as you probably know does not have a queen v-berth. She has a nice sized head then just going aft is a pretty much a queen sized berth. I have not had her out in the open ocean or in an anchorage to see how she sleeps, but at the marina that berth is just fine. I plan on sleeping in the saloon on passage though. Mine does have two heads. Thinking about putting a washing machine in the forward head at some point. Daewoo makes one that can mount to the wall so I should still be able to use the head if needed. It's a manual head where the aft head is electrical and the one we use, but it't nice to have a back-up I guess. However, I recently thought about removing it to add a mini fridge/freezer combo because I already have one in storage, but I don't think it will fit quite the way I want. I think I would have to make an extended base for more support. Anyhow, I just feel it would also take less energy than the fridge/freezer that came with the boat. Crap, I'm rambling, I forgot where I was going other than to say yes mine is a battleship, but I'm happy with it. I'll see if I can find you on Patreon. It would be cool to pick your brain or even have you down for a sail. My boat is in Kemah, Tx just south of Houston.
Rather than a washing machine, i’d get a “plunger” to use in a 5gallon bucket and then a spin dryer to get 99% of the water out, and the a final line drying. Much more efficient if you’re off grid. I bought a Nauticat 44 in galveston. It’s getting a bottom job done now, but i plan on keeping it in kemah.
@@jasonmcintosh2632 Interesting idea Jason. Some washing machines have a pretty good spinning function and then hang them out to dry. Your idea may be more efficient though. Where are you planning on keeping your boat? I'm at Waterford Marina.
amazon has some cheap portable washing machines 2ith wheels, you can plumb to the forward head sink, run it off the inverter, easy install, maybe bungy it to the wall somehow for rought weather, much easier on the back than using a plunger.
I have bounced back and forth on this very issue and what tends to sway me away from the 'condo' is the Capsize Ratios; they're almost always above 2.0 for those types of boats, especially under 40'. Does capsize ratio matter much in the Caribbean? If my boat capsizes, I want there to be a very high likelihood that it will re-right...otherwise I think our family would likely drown. Is it worth taking the chance?
I owned a Catalina 380. The guy next to me owned an IP 38. I always invited him to go with me on my day sails. He got a serious case of boat envy for the size of my cockpit and bimini. His was tiny while I routinely had 8 guests comfortably enjoying a sail. I came to the boatyard one say and found his bimini in the dumpster. He scrapped the whole thing and had a new bigger one designed. Still wasn't as big as mine. I only used my boat for daysailing, but it was very comfortable.
damn good points. I have a Spencer 35. Mk1. Heave to and ride out a hurricane. No problem. Still, with a 9'6" beam the "battleship" may be The survival boat, but nothing is comfortable!
Perfect segue for the series. We’re looking for the same boat. Especially the sugar scoop. No need for unnecessary lifting. Also I have a centerboard high on my list. Thank you
The Catalina with the fold up bikes on the port life lines my wife and I just bought it. Lol it has a keel stepped mast and is a pretty solid vessel.( we didn't pay the price in the add) wing keel 4'11
The reality check you talk about here is spot on! What are you really going to do? I’ve contemplated blue water, and maybe someday I’ll do it, but in reality we will do long weekends with day sails, and a few coastal trips of 3-5 days. Reality check says condo. In the newer 30-35’ range the comparison flips from the IP/Catalina, to Beneteau/Catalina and now it’s light+faster apartment vs heavier + bigger condo. I’m settling on the condo. Thanks for a well spoken reality check: When/if I blue water, it’ll be on someone else’s boat.
Well done! I agree and we came to the same conclusions. Financially we were able to go for the Hunter 430. It's a bit older, but mucy like the Catalina. Its fast and comfortable.
Thanks! good episode. things you talk about are what I considered when buying a boat. a main feature was weight so as the wife would feel more comfortable. I looked at the IP and the Cat. settled on a Tartan 4300
Tartan 4300 is in a completely different category of these two!! The Tartan is head and shoulders better then the other two in every single category! No comparison at all!! Well done!!
My experience is going to be 50% small boat and 50% armchair wishing but my dream boat would be a modernized Prout Quest 33. I learned to sail on a Pearson 26 when I lived on it in Baltimore and loved sailing the Chesapeake while I was there. Ended up having to sell it when I got a job in San Francisco and couldn't take it with me. Since then I've been looking at other boats that would be equally happy going from the shallow areas of the Chesapeake down to island hopping the Caribbean. Crossing oceans really hasn't been on the list of things I'd want to do with this boat.
Yeah those island packets are great boats but not swift . It’s that blunt Bow they have and that full keel . One thing you have to watch out for are the chain plates on older ones , they are susceptible to crevice corrosion as on all boats but are very hard to change and require cutting the interior fibreglass bulkheads to reach the bolts .
Another great video, seems you can't keep the facts out even in an opinion piece. I have to say that I agree 100% with the importance of the liveaboard comfort factor, so I went for a condo built inside a battleship. I also don't particularly give a flying fig about upwind sail performance because I'm getting older and an 88hp yanmar takes care of upwind travel quite admirably at 7kts for 6lts an hour. I'll stand by for the barrage of naysayers bagging the motorsailer driver but the fact is I don't care, for me the travel is the goal and comfort is the primary requirement.
@@deerfootnz Don't get me wrong it will sail upwind I just don't want to tack every 5 minutes if I can do a trip in two or three long tacks I'll probably do it, as for engine troubles the anchors 2 @ 75lb will hold her while I change a fuel filter. Engine issues don't happen they are caused and if you have to anchor on a lee shore you didn't plan very well
Basically I agree that you should first decide what type of sailing you are going to do and then find the best sailboat (features and cost) that fits I have owned a few sailboat and all where good for the stage in live I was at. Being 67and sailing on Lake Erie I bought a Watkins 27 because 1. Wide with a large cockpit so I could invite friends 2. 6 foot headroom 3. Shallow draft 4. Good directional stability so I could balance the boat and use bungee cords to self steer. Each year I solo sail 100 miles and this allows me to relax and pretend I am sailing across an ocean. Speed is slow but not a issue because I normally just sail to nowhere and back. As a bonus she come with a westerbeke 20B Two diesel that is self priming making changing the fuel filter easier. The engine also gives her lots of power just in case I need it.
Depends on experience. If you're new then a small production boat for coastal sailing is just fine. With experience you might want to cross oceans and go circumnavigation, in which case blue-water is preferable. If you've the funds, some vessels can do both. Like the HR, Najad, Amel, the French alu boats etc. If you've serious cash, cruising cats are becoming reliable with carbon. And they've lots of space inside. French and South Africa cats are good quality.
Love the video. However, I love the Caribbean island hoping but I also want to Europe and sail all the way to the black sea. Then what? which blue water-capable boat can I get without going over 70k? Beneteau Oceanis?
Loving your boat comparisons. Not sure what you would compare an Islander Freeport 41 to, but would love to see your research. We found ours in 2019 and love it. We call this our floating condo. We’re a ketch cutter rig. We have four sails plus a spinnaker. We are planning to sail east, from Michigan, in 2023 and out to the Bahamas. We’ll follow your path. We may never come back! At 34,000 pounds, our girl “Dauntless” is a beast, with 200 gallons of fresh water and 200 gallons of diesel to feed our 75 hp Yanmar engine. What do you think? Should we do it?
I just saw a comment on a Project Atticus episode about their ocean crossing that these kids actually do not like sailing, they only sail just to get to places and stay there (it was their first time ocean crossing from Bermuda to Azores and the woman is pregnant, sea sick most of the time). That made me think about what people want when buying sailboat. I am yet to experience salt water sailing but I thought to myself I would go for ocean crossing and just be out there in those large open spaces for from everything. But I see cruisers spend most of their time at anchor or in marinas living on the boat and having fun on land. I have seen some channels where passages were considered a necessary bad thing you have to do to get to another cool place. From what I see, sailing an IP for island hopping would be like driving a Land Rover from caravan park to caravan park. It doesn't make sense but you can do it if that is your quirk.
I've had the fortune of being crew on those two boats and I'm into island hoping too, and for that, the Catalina does better. That extra beam does make a difference. Some people have removed the self tacking jib (for a fixed furler) on the IP because, I guess tacking is less of a chore crossing and ocean than island hoping. Excellent video. Your videos about the thousands dollar boats are great, but maintenance and fees grow exponentially as you move up.
Interesting comparison. I would have to agree if your plans are 95% at anchor the Catalina is the better choice. However; how often do our plans not work out? In addition I would add one more factor, are there kids on board? With children it is the IP even at 95% at anchor. The reason is the IP is safer. Also the IP has a better ride in all conditions. Isn't nice we have so many choices. The most important factor is go sailing! Be happy, be safe
As a long-term sailor myself I can say you did a really good job the only thing missed is the the handling in a tight situation I can tell you from personal experience the IP is a PIA. There are certain situations in winds and room that the IP can't be coxed into turning around if a bail out is needed
Now if you want a boat FAR better than either for IP used price. Or Catalena, Look at the Kelly Peterson 46. Very well built, very fast, very seaworthy. I have crossed oceans on my 44. I say 46 because they are a few years newer and are even faster with more waterline. In my 44 I made 200 mile days. It is cutter rigged, it has the tankage that IP doesn’t (a weak point for IP.). I still see a lot of them down island with jerry jugs all over the decks. For comfort at sea and at anchor/dock, you can’t beat a center cocpit. She is not an all out racer but will sail rings around an IP and out sail the Catalena in all but super hard on the wind. Or super light. And in heavy seas would do better even hard on the wind the KP has 4’ more waterline than the Catalena and 7 feet more than the IP. Fuel on IP is a pitiful 56 gal and 38 on the Catalena! KP is 156 fuel and 200 water. As a “cruiser” should be. Under body is an extended fin with large meaty skeg. Another is the Halberg Rassy 382 or 43. Same price range. Of course on any of these boats you need a good survey. And avoid teak decks if they are screwed down.
I keep finding my tastes in sailboats evolving the boats I would like I probably will never be able to afford I would like to be crossing oceans more but I have to liveaboard and work when I'm broke so I'm kinda leaning towards the same opinion as you
Good video - I love getting my head around this stuff. I'm starting to think "More normal conditions," means 'likely more than 95% of the time,' making the fin keeled Catalina not only faster than the Island Packet but more practical. Cape Horn? Sure the Island Packet every time (Actually I would go in whatever John Kretschmer was sailing because I'm not sure I'd want to try it with anyone else.) But how many times could you cross the Atlantic, cruise the Caribbean or cross the Pacific before you'd run into a situation where you wish you'd not sailed the Catalina? I don't know that much, but the way most people sail, avoiding hurricane season, use regular weather updates to avoid anything bad.... Maybe you won't ever really need the Island Packet? (I admit I don't have the experience to say for sure.) PHRP #s for the Hunter 456 I'm about to buy is 99 - good as the Catalina, but also 3 feet longer. How does that translate to _Performance Cat Thinking?_ The current owner says the asymmetric in 5 - 7 knots of wind will do 3-4 knots. The engine of course will do 6 knots. Right now I'm thinking that unless I'm in a hurry, the 3 - 4 knots will be enough. (Everybody loves a big sail up front. That's another plus.) If instead I just keep turning on that engine - - then 99 wasn't high enough. What is _Performance Cat Thinking?_ : those boats are advertised by the top speeds (that they can't sustain) but they're purchased by people who want to sail efficiently, want to sail upwind, and in 5-8 knots of wind using a spinnaker will do 4-7 knots without turning on that noisy engine (and cats have lots of windows and room.)
@@LadyKSailing Ouch. I know enough to see the situation - but not enough experience to actually know what I'll do. But you do. So that's the challenge: figure out the minimum wind required to get 5kn with sails...or learn to eally really relax, until I get the cat then it'll be easier.
Enjoyable comparison. I do wish that you'd used an Island Packet 42 VS the Catalina 42, to make the comparison fairer. In general, the volume of a sailboat DOUBLES for every four feet of length - which explains the more spacious Catalina interior. One other thing: HITTING A REEF. Most of the popular mass-produced boats feature narrow keels bolted to grids inside the hulls - hitting a reef (even lightly) can cause catastrophic damage (I recommend watching the early episodes of EXPEDTION EVANS, a young couple who buy a "totaled" Beneteau 49 with a damaged keel and the work they had to do to repair it). The full keel boats are indeed slower, but can usually survive an accidental reef/whale/container collision. I sailed in the South Pacific for two years and witnessed many groundings and reef encounters among the cruisers - and groundings while at anchor were the MOST common. So even if one spends most of their time at anchor, there is always a risk of hitting something - or being hit by another boat which is dragging anchor.
We own an Island Packet 485. It’s a center cockpit, take you anywhere tank! Lots of interior space - 3 cabins and 2 heads. The boat comes alive at wind speeds other boats are reefing or heading home. Check it out or any of the IPs.
Interesting that you should put together this video. I am currently torn between a Catalina 385/375/387 and an Island Packet 370/380 (in that order) or perhaps a 350. Both IP and Catalina have the interior space and features that I want for living aboard.
It's too bad the Catalina 42 MK2 wasn't built with twin Helms I think that would be my ideal boat. I know they make a 40 but that boat just for some reason is it in all the boxes what's your thought on the Catalina 40 twin Helms?
I own a Catalina 42 and love it, Regret is the Pullman berth, get the forward! Super sucks to be woken up or have to wake up to pee!! Other than that it’s perfect
She’s going to be awake when you flush anyway (and probably pass you on the way out as she decides it’s her turn 😇) The full shower on the Pullman was our deciding factor. Not having a “wet head” combo head/shower, to us, makes up for the “I’m gonna check the anchor” nature calls as I gracefully crawl over, if needed.
Question... But first, GREAT VIDEO!! ...especially since I'm trying to choose between an IP380 and a Catalina 380 or 387. I understand all your points and might go the Catalina route. I get pretty impatient with boats that are pig-ish about sailing to weather. (IP) The Catalinas do that much better. I like sailing around cans...but I also enjoy cruising. So, Catalina seems the better choice...we seem to agree on all that. However, I live on the Florida Atlantic coast (skinny waters in the ICW and inlets), and I want to cruise the Bahamas. Getting a shoal draft Catalina (wing keel) would seem to be the solution, but when those wings ground, they can be hard (some say impossible) to get off. A BoatUS or SeaTow membership would be a solution in Florida, but I understand there is no similar solution for that in the Bahamas....and it can cost an arm and leg for getting towed off over there. The IP would seem to get the nod on that front. Shallow draft, and then easier to kedge off too...hard to heel a wing keel to get off a grounding. BTW, I have a friend who recently sank his C380 in Sapelo sound in Georgia...he bounced a few times on a shoal, lost the rudder...then a few more times and the wing keel was driven through the bottom of the boat. His next ride was on a USCG helo. (Everyone was OK except the boat.) Long setup, but do you have any thoughts on that that aspect of cruising in shallow waters and bays while still wanting some better performance, especially between these 2 types of boats? Thanks! Great work!
I think, don't let one horror story scare you. Every kind of boat has those. As for grounded a wing, I wouldn't bat an eye at it. Just respect what you have and act accordingly. Go slower. Double check charts and use navionics. If and when you ground, if you can't back up, use the dinghy to spin the boat 180. Then full steam ahead while rocking the rudder. It'll get free.
How's it going haven't been on for awhile lots of health issues put me behind schedule on getting another sailboat since I last mine from hurricane IDA. You seem to be doing good and I've always enjoyed your videos. As soon as I get better I'll get back to being a patreon again. I'm glad your still on. Talk soon
I've noticed that the majority of sailing channels I watch that do ocean crossings, use or did use Beneteaus, yet many say they are not for blue water, I'm not boat shopping got a Yankee 38 and trying to get it to pass a shakedown.
The most boat I can fit on a small light trailer. Also, the boat should be dry inside while it's wet outside. A huge storm? Bring it on. Nothing should break.
Ok I stumbled upon your channel by good fortune. So what about a choice for a guy that knows nothing about sailing BUT is looking for something that is affordable, go anywhere, and is easy to handle for 1? I forsee short sails to begin with, destinations like the keys, Caribbean, etc. However once education and experience is gained I Invision a trip across the Atlantic and bounce around through the Mediterranean
It is good that you do not express your opinion often because it clouds your judgement and facts. C42 is keel stepped, Island packet is a production boat. I might give you the stay sail but there are a lot of C42's that have added an inner stay to give them some more options.
Best video yet. Please share more “opinions”, they’re right on the mark. You left the door open there at the end. So, what are your dream cruising boat?
good day, i am looking for a liveaboard boat to move to the carribeans / panama , i found for pretty much the same price , same shape , same equipment , a 75 whitby 42 and a 74 morgan out island 41 . wich one would you choose? do i roll the dices ? please let me know . thank you sir.
This sounds like a, "Do I need a bluewater boat" conversation. Since I'm island hopping, the answer for me is no. Of course -- I'm sailing what I can charter. I do think some of the "island hopping" boats could do with something besides a bolt on keel. Hope you did well in the races. :D
Hey!..hello...like your videos. Tks a lot. I have a question. What do you think about Nauticat 385, year 2005-7 ? Im looking for a pilothouse yacht, and they are very expensive. Love the concept. Its true that this shipyard really changed these designs for ones with more seaworthy capabilities or not? There is very little information. I plan to go around the planet several times. They seemed to me very capable sailboats on paper. I would like to know your opinion, and understand if this hypothetical "renewed" model according to the finns, really improved its sailing capabilities? Greetings and thanks for everything. ✌️💥⛵️ PD: I saw the Episode 137, but your talking about the old models. Right?
I've owned a Catalina 42 MKII (2 cabin, pullman berth) for 5 years now (and, as others have pointed out, it's a keel stepped mast). I agree with much of what you say. In other videos, you've made clear that you really like these boats, and they do offer many benefits, particularly for the money. It's a dream to sail, and the large cockpit is wonderful for larger crews. A couple areas where I don't necessarily agree with you are the "floating condo" description and the dismissal of the benefits of 2 heads. We like to bring guests cruising (Great Lakes), and the extra head w/ its extra holding tank is a feature that, in shopping for a boat, was of no interest to me but, having sailed it for several years, would now be difficult to be without. So nice for guests to have their own, and we can do more extended trips without visiting marinas thanks to the extra tank. But my one big gripe about this boat is the salon layout. The curved settees look very comfortable, but are incredibly impractical. Sleeping on a curved "bed" is essentially impossible. Needing to lift the table, replace the legs, reattach the table, put on a cushion that can't be stored anywhere, then reversing the procedure in the morning (often with the table legs now stuck in place) is no fun. My previous boat was an old Islander 36 that could sleep a crew more easily. The prior owner described the boat as "sails 8, sleeps 2". A few tweaks to the interior would make this so much more practical of a boat!
I’ve been a fulltime live aboard on a Catalina 42Mk2 for going on 4 years. Btw-the C42 is KEEL STEPPED. Lead Keel too. It’s a solid, simple vessel that’s easy to work on, affordable to own & makes an excellent home. She also sails very well & is an “A” rated offshore boat. I also have 2 teenage daughters & can personally attest that having 2 heads is essential in my case. I work on boats all day & both are very nice, well built boats.
May I pester you with a question: How's the headroom. As a guy who is considering a liveaboard lifestyle, I think my list of boats to consider could be dramatically reduced by throwing out all those that don't have at least 6'7" of headroom in the cabin. I'm a 6'6" guy and while I understand one spends more time sitting or lying down below, but it's still important to me to be able to stand up to cook, or to be able to run from one end of the boat to the other without having to be hunched over. The C42Mk2 seems very appealing to me, but I haven't had a chance to step on one yet. How's the headroom in her, any chance it's at least 6'7" in the majority of common areas?
@@tedvz Hola~hard pressed to find big headroom with a Monohull. I’m 6’1” and it’s great, but for you check out the 470.
@@tedvz I also have an C42mkii. Headroom is good. I'm 6'4" and have plenty of headroom.
@@zackhowell9047 Does "plenty" mean another 4" of clearance throughout most of the boat? I'm curious what year. I saw somewhere, not sure if accurate, that at some point in time the mfg made a change and the headroom dropped a few inches. Thanks for the input, folks!
@@tedvz Not sure exactly how muchroom is above my head but I would guess maybe 6 or 7 inches in the saloon and maybe a little less in the foreward stateroom. 3 cabin with foreward pullman.
Battleship. All the way! I spent $8000 in flights, haul-outs and failed surveys. Every Hunter, Catalina and Freedom had serious issues at survey. Deck damage, hull damage, deck damage, cracked keel, deck damage. As I was about to give up, my broker recommended an Island Packet….. which I now own! Surveyors exact words “she’s built like a battleship”! I care not about knots, I have comfort at sea and anchor with all the space I need!
I had a similar experience and went with an Island Packet as well. It was the first boat in my budget that just felt right everywhere.
Aren't you brilliant. Maybe get a real surveyor to look at that "Piglet's" chain plates-... Let us know how that battleship is going to sail without rigging. Many owners simply drill through the hull sides and add new ones on the exterior. Classy.
@@genesmith4019 I find it interesting that you could have any idea of the quality of surveyor that I hired. Your childish comment does little to change my opinion.
@@paulhicks1168 Of course it doesn't. Guys like you know it all. Don't think about those chain plates and what's involved in inspecting them correctly. You've got a survey Lol.
@@genesmith4019 Another petulant assumption, this time about me. So, I do have a survey which states”Due to fiberglassing of the chainplates to the hull, visual examination by remote fiber scope was limited to the upper portion of the internal chain plate. Radiographic examination of the fiberglassed potion showed no material loss due to Intergranular Corrosion and no structural concerns due to Stress Corrosion Cracking.” So, yet another childish comment does not change my opinion. Perhaps Tik-Tok would serve your teenage emotion state better.
So thankful for channels like this, real sailing. No sugarcoating, rainbow, or sunshine. Just give to them straight brother
Loved this episode. I am reeling with choices! I am finding that choosing the right boat is never ending, meaning that just as you make your mind up, another choice comes along!!
Yes, every boat - every one of them, is a compromise in some way or another price, size (to big, too small), features, or lack there of a "ready to go boat" or a fixer upper, etc...
Great Choice. We own a Catalina 42 MK1, 3 cabin pullman. A pretty special 42Mk1. It was Gerry Douglas's and his family's personal boat until about 4 years ago when he offered to let us buy it. He truly did keep her spotless. I'd always liked the lines of the 42, and this one is checked with a lot special items. In boom Schaeffer furling, Diesel heat, On-demand propane fired hot water, Custom Tables, Oversize Windlass, Watertight bulkhead, Gori Prop, Flir, Etc., Etc., Etc. We have sailed her quite a bit and spend a lot of time on Catalina Island. She's fast, extremely comfortable, and we are prepping her for the Baja Haha next year. She placed in the Newport to Ensenada a few times, and has been in Sail magazine, etc. While I like the Island Packet, The Catalina is a lot more maneuverable in tight quarters and easier to board. You are totally correct. We are not planning on rounding the Horn. But for our usage (Pacific coast and Mexico) she's perfect. I'm not sure about the 42 Mk2, but our mast is Keel Stepped.
Love your video's. Keep them coming!!
I got stuck somewhere in between and purchased a 1987 Moody 422 , relatively fast and relatively safe with good accomodations.
Don't see these boats offered much in NA , I am very happy with it.
Your comparison is definitely a good guide for the novice boat shopper , the more experienced sailor knows the compromises.
Any sailboat choice is always a compromise.
Very informative. You are right that the the Catalina will get into the harbor 1 hour earlier so you might think it will get a better anchorage, but it needs 2 feet more water than the Island Packet.
C42 with wing keel draws 4’ 10”. I’m not sure of the ratio, but I think the shallow draft (wing keel) outsold the performance keel by a large margin.
Granted, it’s still a spade rudder and every crab pot scares the bejeezus out of you (or it should😎).
From an old cruising sailor: The ocean hasn't changed. Once you are out there, you are at the mercy of whatever the wind and ocean throw at you.
Old sailboats have long keels; keel stepped masts; shrouds that fasten to the edge of the hulo, leaving decks - your working areas - free of shrouds that the racers demand; 7 degree sheeting angles. If I have to learn to play a harp before I can carry a box of beer bottle down my deck, I want no part of that boat.
If you want a party boat - 30 feet long that sleeps 6 - where do you store their clothes? ... food to feed them all? .... can they all stand up in the cabin at the same time? ....
A good sailboat has to be a very elegant trade-off between boat requirements for being a safe and efficient sailer under all conditions, and adequate storage requirements for food, crew, and boat equipment.
I must have a keel stepped mast, and be a long keel vessel. I want no spade rudders or propellers hanging out there waiting to catch a lobster trap warp, or fish net. Believe me, it will happen, and according to MURPHY' Law at the worst time possible. Boat design fashions change - the sea doesn't change
I am very glad you wrote this peirce, you have confirmed to me that I will buy a full keel heavy cruiser. Choi Lee, Hans Christian. ?? Help me out. Thanks for your time, Dean.
Apples and oranges. I owned a Catalina 34 for 5 years before I went to the dark side with a trawler. Lots of miles in the ICW so decided to get out of the cockpit and up on a fly bridge. Island Packets are a niche boat for sailors that dream of going offshore, blue water., and maybe don’t. These are the same people who'd would buy a Range Rover for his one day a year he’s going to drive off paved roads, vs getting a 4WD Subaru.
I really appreciate your honest approach. Tnx again great channel and very interesting
Agree with your basic idea of 'what suits you best?". I love Island Packets. They look like what a sailboat should look like. But I'm on my second Catalina and I'm all in. For the money it checks the boxes. I'm not crossing oceans and instead I need the floating condo and comfort to suit my lifestyle. Catalinas are all about comfort in a coastal cruising context on a budget.
Great video! We own a 2005 Island Packet and love it. Your analysis was fair and accurate. Yes the other boats would get to the anchorages a little faster and have first choice for the select spots. However, one point you may have over looked. Our Island Packet sailboat has a shoal draft of 4' 4". So yes the Catalina will get there a few minutes earlier but when we get there we can sneak around most sailboats and get closer to shore for the best and most protected anchorages. 😉
That's good to know as I am a first timer looking
I see a lot of people crossing the Atlantic in production sailboats. Their goal is more than crossing from east to west or west to east. The end result is island hopping, the Caribbean, or locations hopping, the Med. I wonder what boat might be the best compromise boat, as close t bulletproof as possible and still a near condo on the water. People might just like to hear your opinion.
I met a floatilla of cruisers all with Island packets (One Cheoy Lee) and at the bar one night they all agreed that they wish they had spent less on the boat and had more money to travel. You also pay a ton for the Island Packet and resale is not that easy. There are other choices aside from catalina. Deals are to be had out there outside the battle ship or the clorox bottle.
For the type of sailing I’m looking to do (and it seems to be very similar to your goals) I have to admit that the spade rudder on the Cat concerns me. The skeg hung rudder on the IP seems to be more ready to weather the inevitable grounding that the Gulf Coast/Caribbean is subject to.
I agree. That is a failing point in the design. Lady K I think is best of both. Modified fin and a skeg. I'll try to find a model that does that design to talk about too.
When I think about sailing around South Florida and the Bahamas, I always get concerned with grounding. I know it will happen, I just don't know when, and I don't know how bad it will be. For that reason, and that reason alone, I want to avoid bolted on fin keels. IPs are designed for this kind of sailing. Shoal keel that is sometimes bolted, depending on the IP, but is always encapsulated. They almost seem designed to take an occasional hard grounding.
I agree with your sentiments - those full keels are much more likely to survive a reef "hit" than the narrow keels bolted onto internal grids.
Funny you should mention. My friend grounded his IP this weekend and it took an armada to pull him off the sand bar 😂 anyway something to think about.
I love your insight and knowledge. One thing I think many people miss is how the boat was treated. I am currently in S. Carolina tied up next to two Cabo Ricos that look like death. My 36 Catalina (freshwater boat for 40 years) is going places. She fills all my needs 6 for cocktails, 4 for dinner, and 2 for sleeping. While repeating 8 knots on passages. Why have a battleship when Destroyers are an option.
ALL CAPS COMMENT!!!
As always you provide pragmatic and transparent thoughts on some (very) "religious" topics. Well done, sir. Well done, indeed.
Look for me joining your Patreon once I clean up my existing commitments.
Thanks for what you do here.
Hahaha thanks! And thanks for watching :)
IP-380 'LoonaTech' owner here... I was pleasently surprised to see my boat's pictures used here. I've had her since 2008 where I bought her on Lake Erie from a retiring IP sailor. Sailing on a lake that never gives up its dead made our boat buying decision real easy... that and she's a 100% freshwater boat!
I just bought my live aboard.i bought a Malo 96/34 not very common boat. But it got the essentials I want. Integrated long fin keel, small skeg to protect the rudder, high quality built and some insulation with balsa coor in hull and superstructure
Great video! Your right about the Island Packet. It’s a tank and very slow
Island Packets are made in Largo Florida and a few miles away was the Catalina factory which burned down.
Your right on the money with your video!
And your thee o Lu one that has ever talked about meeting a shipping container in the water. It’s amazing how many fall off ships every year!
Excellent video and guidance. This is such a good channel. Thank you 🙏👍⛵️
The Catalina 42 is KEEL STEPPED and very solid.
Yea but it's not an Island packet
great comparison! Thank you. We learned to sail on a Catalina 22, then a 30 years ago. We have been drooling over the IPY, but I totally agree on all of your points. Battleship vs Condo.
It's so good to see you I used to watch your original Lady K videos and I saw the last one shortly after your breakup . And then you disappeared and now I see you again I have a lot of catching up to do I don't know how you disappeared on my feed. I am more of a power boater than a sailor, although I've done both and I've also raced.
When I think of a Catalina I think of the powerboat counterpart being something like a Bayliner it is low quality looks decent it's not going to last and it's fragile if that's a good way to put it.
I have been out on island packets and they are like a Bertram or a Hatteras.
A Kia SUV or a GMC Yukon
Terrific video! Thank you. Your opinion is always well considered, and always well appreciated!
To each their own. For me I want ocean crossing in a tank and the wilder the seas the better. But that’s me I spent most of my adult life driving semi on ice roads and hilly back roads so scared crapless is excitement to me. Good luck tonight. See you next week🍻
Is there any chance you can setup a super thanks for those who can’t do weekly patron support?
Sounds like the prelude to an exciting new TH-cam channel 🤔
Great video as usual! I have a 1994 IP40 I bought June 2021 so she's still new to me and I have lots of plans for upgrades. Just had a set back due to a knee issue and a couple of other things, but hoping to get back to her in a few weeks. Mine as you probably know does not have a queen v-berth. She has a nice sized head then just going aft is a pretty much a queen sized berth. I have not had her out in the open ocean or in an anchorage to see how she sleeps, but at the marina that berth is just fine. I plan on sleeping in the saloon on passage though. Mine does have two heads. Thinking about putting a washing machine in the forward head at some point. Daewoo makes one that can mount to the wall so I should still be able to use the head if needed. It's a manual head where the aft head is electrical and the one we use, but it't nice to have a back-up I guess. However, I recently thought about removing it to add a mini fridge/freezer combo because I already have one in storage, but I don't think it will fit quite the way I want. I think I would have to make an extended base for more support. Anyhow, I just feel it would also take less energy than the fridge/freezer that came with the boat. Crap, I'm rambling, I forgot where I was going other than to say yes mine is a battleship, but I'm happy with it. I'll see if I can find you on Patreon. It would be cool to pick your brain or even have you down for a sail. My boat is in Kemah, Tx just south of Houston.
Rather than a washing machine, i’d get a “plunger” to use in a 5gallon bucket and then a spin dryer to get 99% of the water out, and the a final line drying. Much more efficient if you’re off grid. I bought a Nauticat 44 in galveston. It’s getting a bottom job done now, but i plan on keeping it in kemah.
@@jasonmcintosh2632 Interesting idea Jason. Some washing machines have a pretty good spinning function and then hang them out to dry. Your idea may be more efficient though. Where are you planning on keeping your boat? I'm at Waterford Marina.
amazon has some cheap portable washing machines 2ith wheels, you can plumb to the forward head sink, run it off the inverter, easy install, maybe bungy it to the wall somehow for rought weather, much easier on the back than using a plunger.
I have bounced back and forth on this very issue and what tends to sway me away from the 'condo' is the Capsize Ratios; they're almost always above 2.0 for those types of boats, especially under 40'. Does capsize ratio matter much in the Caribbean? If my boat capsizes, I want there to be a very high likelihood that it will re-right...otherwise I think our family would likely drown. Is it worth taking the chance?
I owned a Catalina 380. The guy next to me owned an IP 38. I always invited him to go with me on my day sails. He got a serious case of boat envy for the size of my cockpit and bimini. His was tiny while I routinely had 8 guests comfortably enjoying a sail. I came to the boatyard one say and found his bimini in the dumpster. He scrapped the whole thing and had a new bigger one designed. Still wasn't as big as mine. I only used my boat for daysailing, but it was very comfortable.
damn good points. I have a Spencer 35. Mk1. Heave to and ride out a hurricane. No problem. Still, with a 9'6" beam the "battleship" may be The survival boat, but nothing is comfortable!
Great video. For what I would do with it Condo would be my pick.
Thanks I bought a sailboat a 25 oday your info helped me
Perfect segue for the series. We’re looking for the same boat. Especially the sugar scoop. No need for unnecessary lifting. Also I have a centerboard high on my list. Thank you
The Catalina with the fold up bikes on the port life lines my wife and I just bought it. Lol it has a keel stepped mast and is a pretty solid vessel.( we didn't pay the price in the add) wing keel 4'11
The reality check you talk about here is spot on! What are you really going to do? I’ve contemplated blue water, and maybe someday I’ll do it, but in reality we will do long weekends with day sails, and a few coastal trips of 3-5 days. Reality check says condo.
In the newer 30-35’ range the comparison flips from the IP/Catalina, to Beneteau/Catalina and now it’s light+faster apartment vs heavier + bigger condo. I’m settling on the condo.
Thanks for a well spoken reality check: When/if I blue water, it’ll be on someone else’s boat.
Well done! I agree and we came to the same conclusions. Financially we were able to go for the Hunter 430. It's a bit older, but mucy like the Catalina. Its fast and comfortable.
What an excelent summary.
TH-cam suits me best. I can live vicariously on both for the same price on the same day😊
Thanks! good episode. things you talk about are what I considered when buying a boat. a main feature was weight so as the wife would feel more comfortable. I looked at the IP and the Cat. settled on a Tartan 4300
Heyyy nice boat though!!!
Tartan 4300 is in a completely different category of these two!!
The Tartan is head and shoulders better then the other two in every single category! No comparison at all!! Well done!!
@@svgitana2499 Thanks
My experience is going to be 50% small boat and 50% armchair wishing but my dream boat would be a modernized Prout Quest 33. I learned to sail on a Pearson 26 when I lived on it in Baltimore and loved sailing the Chesapeake while I was there. Ended up having to sell it when I got a job in San Francisco and couldn't take it with me. Since then I've been looking at other boats that would be equally happy going from the shallow areas of the Chesapeake down to island hopping the Caribbean. Crossing oceans really hasn't been on the list of things I'd want to do with this boat.
I like this style of video too, thank you! And oh baby, can’t wait for that $100k boat showdown!
Yeah those island packets are great boats but not swift . It’s that blunt Bow they have and that full keel . One thing you have to watch out for are the chain plates on older ones , they are susceptible to crevice corrosion as on all boats but are very hard to change and require cutting the interior fibreglass bulkheads to reach the bolts .
Great stuff, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Awesome point of views thx for sharing ure knowledge
Another great video, seems you can't keep the facts out even in an opinion piece. I have to say that I agree 100% with the importance of the liveaboard comfort factor, so I went for a condo built inside a battleship. I also don't particularly give a flying fig about upwind sail performance because I'm getting older and an 88hp yanmar takes care of upwind travel quite admirably at 7kts for 6lts an hour. I'll stand by for the barrage of naysayers bagging the motorsailer driver but the fact is I don't care, for me the travel is the goal and comfort is the primary requirement.
@@deerfootnz Don't get me wrong it will sail upwind I just don't want to tack every 5 minutes if I can do a trip in two or three long tacks I'll probably do it, as for engine troubles the anchors 2 @ 75lb will hold her while I change a fuel filter. Engine issues don't happen they are caused and if you have to anchor on a lee shore you didn't plan very well
Basically I agree that you should first decide what type of sailing you are going to do and then find the best sailboat (features and cost) that fits
I have owned a few sailboat and all where good for the stage in live I was at.
Being 67and sailing on Lake Erie I bought a Watkins 27 because
1. Wide with a large cockpit so I could invite friends
2. 6 foot headroom
3. Shallow draft
4. Good directional stability so I could balance the boat and use bungee cords to self steer.
Each year I solo sail 100 miles and this allows me to relax and pretend I am sailing across an ocean.
Speed is slow but not a issue because I normally just sail to nowhere and back.
As a bonus she come with a westerbeke 20B Two diesel that is self priming making changing the fuel filter easier.
The engine also gives her lots of power just in case I need it.
Depends on experience. If you're new then a small production boat for coastal sailing is just fine. With experience you might want to cross oceans and go circumnavigation, in which case blue-water is preferable. If you've the funds, some vessels can do both. Like the HR, Najad, Amel, the French alu boats etc. If you've serious cash, cruising cats are becoming reliable with carbon. And they've lots of space inside. French and South Africa cats are good quality.
French no.
@@willyum1208 French boats are very well made. Likely too costly for the Freedom Fries set...
Love the video. However, I love the Caribbean island hoping but I also want to Europe and sail all the way to the black sea. Then what? which blue water-capable boat can I get without going over 70k? Beneteau Oceanis?
Gold mate thank you very much
You have a good answer for both , but my boat would be The Hans Christiansen 48 T CC now that’s a battle ship . 👍🏻
Really good option.🙏👍
Nice - balanced - discussion. Always enjoy your videos.
Loving your boat comparisons. Not sure what you would compare an Islander Freeport 41 to, but would love to see your research. We found ours in 2019 and love it. We call this our floating condo. We’re a ketch cutter rig. We have four sails plus a spinnaker. We are planning to sail east, from Michigan, in 2023 and out to the Bahamas. We’ll follow your path. We may never come back!
At 34,000 pounds, our girl “Dauntless” is a beast, with 200 gallons of fresh water and 200 gallons of diesel to feed our 75 hp Yanmar engine.
What do you think? Should we do it?
I just saw a comment on a Project Atticus episode about their ocean crossing that these kids actually do not like sailing, they only sail just to get to places and stay there (it was their first time ocean crossing from Bermuda to Azores and the woman is pregnant, sea sick most of the time). That made me think about what people want when buying sailboat. I am yet to experience salt water sailing but I thought to myself I would go for ocean crossing and just be out there in those large open spaces for from everything. But I see cruisers spend most of their time at anchor or in marinas living on the boat and having fun on land. I have seen some channels where passages were considered a necessary bad thing you have to do to get to another cool place. From what I see, sailing an IP for island hopping would be like driving a Land Rover from caravan park to caravan park. It doesn't make sense but you can do it if that is your quirk.
they crossed on a 40 foot PSC, built for one purpose, to cross oceans, I was surprised at how beat up they got.
Good episode. Have been considering an IP. One concern. . .a bit sluggish and not being able to point upwind. Decisions, decisions.
I've had the fortune of being crew on those two boats and I'm into island hoping too, and for that, the Catalina does better. That extra beam does make a difference. Some people have removed the self tacking jib (for a fixed furler) on the IP because, I guess tacking is less of a chore crossing and ocean than island hoping. Excellent video. Your videos about the thousands dollar boats are great, but maintenance and fees grow exponentially as you move up.
Good points Tim!
Good balanced thought provoking advice 👍
I had to watch this one twice revisited it after a couple months
Interesting comparison. I would have to agree if your plans are 95% at anchor the Catalina is the better choice. However; how often do our plans not work out? In addition I would add one more factor, are there kids on board? With children it is the IP even at 95% at anchor. The reason is the IP is safer. Also the IP has a better ride in all conditions. Isn't nice we have so many choices.
The most important factor is go sailing! Be happy, be safe
As a long-term sailor myself I can say you did a really good job the only thing missed is the the handling in a tight situation I can tell you from personal experience the IP is a PIA. There are certain situations in winds and room that the IP can't be coxed into turning around if a bail out is needed
I think this was just awesome! I appreciate you opinion!
Now if you want a boat FAR better than either for IP used price. Or Catalena, Look at the Kelly Peterson 46. Very well built, very fast, very seaworthy. I have crossed oceans on my 44. I say 46 because they are a few years newer and are even faster with more waterline. In my 44 I made 200 mile days. It is cutter rigged, it has the tankage that IP doesn’t (a weak point for IP.). I still see a lot of them down island with jerry jugs all over the decks. For comfort at sea and at anchor/dock, you can’t beat a center cocpit. She is not an all out racer but will sail rings around an IP and out sail the Catalena in all but super hard on the wind. Or super light. And in heavy seas would do better even hard on the wind the KP has 4’ more waterline than the Catalena and 7 feet more than the IP. Fuel on IP is a pitiful 56 gal and 38 on the Catalena! KP is 156 fuel and 200 water. As a “cruiser” should be. Under body is an extended fin with large meaty skeg. Another is the Halberg Rassy 382 or 43. Same price range. Of course on any of these boats you need a good survey. And avoid teak decks if they are screwed down.
I keep finding my tastes in sailboats evolving the boats I would like I probably will never be able to afford I would like to be crossing oceans more but I have to liveaboard and work when I'm broke so I'm kinda leaning towards the same opinion as you
I never considered a Catalina until your last few videos. I might take a closer look…
My dream boats/brands are Sirius DS and Seawind Catamaran.
you are great. thanks
Nicely done!
Would you say an Island Packet 40 of 1996 is as good as the 380 you speak about?
Thank you
Good video - I love getting my head around this stuff. I'm starting to think "More normal conditions," means 'likely more than 95% of the time,' making the fin keeled Catalina not only faster than the Island Packet but more practical. Cape Horn? Sure the Island Packet every time (Actually I would go in whatever John Kretschmer was sailing because I'm not sure I'd want to try it with anyone else.) But how many times could you cross the Atlantic, cruise the Caribbean or cross the Pacific before you'd run into a situation where you wish you'd not sailed the Catalina? I don't know that much, but the way most people sail, avoiding hurricane season, use regular weather updates to avoid anything bad.... Maybe you won't ever really need the Island Packet? (I admit I don't have the experience to say for sure.)
PHRP #s for the Hunter 456 I'm about to buy is 99 - good as the Catalina, but also 3 feet longer. How does that translate to _Performance Cat Thinking?_ The current owner says the asymmetric in 5 - 7 knots of wind will do 3-4 knots. The engine of course will do 6 knots. Right now I'm thinking that unless I'm in a hurry, the 3 - 4 knots will be enough. (Everybody loves a big sail up front. That's another plus.) If instead I just keep turning on that engine - - then 99 wasn't high enough. What is _Performance Cat Thinking?_ : those boats are advertised by the top speeds (that they can't sustain) but they're purchased by people who want to sail efficiently, want to sail upwind, and in 5-8 knots of wind using a spinnaker will do 4-7 knots without turning on that noisy engine (and cats have lots of windows and room.)
If I had a choice I'd take the cat lol. But most people find while cruising that if you can't make at least 5kn progress, you'll be motoring.
@@LadyKSailing Ouch. I know enough to see the situation - but not enough experience to actually know what I'll do. But you do. So that's the challenge: figure out the minimum wind required to get 5kn with sails...or learn to eally really relax, until I get the cat then it'll be easier.
Enjoyable comparison. I do wish that you'd used an Island Packet 42 VS the Catalina 42, to make the comparison fairer. In general, the volume of a sailboat DOUBLES for every four feet of length - which explains the more spacious Catalina interior. One other thing: HITTING A REEF. Most of the popular mass-produced boats feature narrow keels bolted to grids inside the hulls - hitting a reef (even lightly) can cause catastrophic damage (I recommend watching the early episodes of EXPEDTION EVANS, a young couple who buy a "totaled" Beneteau 49 with a damaged keel and the work they had to do to repair it). The full keel boats are indeed slower, but can usually survive an accidental reef/whale/container collision. I sailed in the South Pacific for two years and witnessed many groundings and reef encounters among the cruisers - and groundings while at anchor were the MOST common. So even if one spends most of their time at anchor, there is always a risk of hitting something - or being hit by another boat which is dragging anchor.
I agree. It was the price that made these compare for me. The IP is that much better that you have to go smaller to compare.
Thanks for the Episode! Hope one day you will do same for affordable Center Cockpit Battleship vs affordable Center Cockpit Condo :) Thanks again!)
We own an Island Packet 485. It’s a center cockpit, take you anywhere tank! Lots of interior space - 3 cabins and 2 heads. The boat comes alive at wind speeds other boats are reefing or heading home. Check it out or any of the IPs.
Hey Tim, we tune in for your opinion and perspective. Please share more! it's more educated/experienced than anything found on forums and such
Interesting that you should put together this video. I am currently torn between a Catalina 385/375/387 and an Island Packet 370/380 (in that order) or perhaps a 350. Both IP and Catalina have the interior space and features that I want for living aboard.
Ah interesting. I guess it depends on what you'll use it for.
Love my Catalina 30 for lake ontario sailing
It's too bad the Catalina 42 MK2 wasn't built with twin Helms I think that would be my ideal boat. I know they make a 40 but that boat just for some reason is it in all the boxes what's your thought on the Catalina 40 twin Helms?
I own a Catalina 42 and love it, Regret is the Pullman berth, get the forward! Super sucks to be woken up or have to wake up to pee!! Other than that it’s perfect
I saw the Pullman! I like the cabin layout better in it but yeah, I'd rather have the forward center line too
She’s going to be awake when you flush anyway (and probably pass you on the way out as she decides it’s her turn 😇)
The full shower on the Pullman was our deciding factor. Not having a “wet head” combo head/shower, to us, makes up for the “I’m gonna check the anchor” nature calls as I gracefully crawl over, if needed.
Question... But first, GREAT VIDEO!! ...especially since I'm trying to choose between an IP380 and a Catalina 380 or 387. I understand all your points and might go the Catalina route. I get pretty impatient with boats that are pig-ish about sailing to weather. (IP) The Catalinas do that much better. I like sailing around cans...but I also enjoy cruising. So, Catalina seems the better choice...we seem to agree on all that. However, I live on the Florida Atlantic coast (skinny waters in the ICW and inlets), and I want to cruise the Bahamas. Getting a shoal draft Catalina (wing keel) would seem to be the solution, but when those wings ground, they can be hard (some say impossible) to get off. A BoatUS or SeaTow membership would be a solution in Florida, but I understand there is no similar solution for that in the Bahamas....and it can cost an arm and leg for getting towed off over there. The IP would seem to get the nod on that front. Shallow draft, and then easier to kedge off too...hard to heel a wing keel to get off a grounding. BTW, I have a friend who recently sank his C380 in Sapelo sound in Georgia...he bounced a few times on a shoal, lost the rudder...then a few more times and the wing keel was driven through the bottom of the boat. His next ride was on a USCG helo. (Everyone was OK except the boat.) Long setup, but do you have any thoughts on that that aspect of cruising in shallow waters and bays while still wanting some better performance, especially between these 2 types of boats? Thanks! Great work!
I think, don't let one horror story scare you. Every kind of boat has those. As for grounded a wing, I wouldn't bat an eye at it. Just respect what you have and act accordingly. Go slower. Double check charts and use navionics. If and when you ground, if you can't back up, use the dinghy to spin the boat 180. Then full steam ahead while rocking the rudder. It'll get free.
How's it going haven't been on for awhile lots of health issues put me behind schedule on getting another sailboat since I last mine from hurricane IDA. You seem to be doing good and I've always enjoyed your videos. As soon as I get better I'll get back to being a patreon again. I'm glad your still on. Talk soon
Hey Lawrence. Hope things are going well. Miss you around here 🙂
I've noticed that the majority of sailing channels I watch that do ocean crossings, use or did use Beneteaus, yet many say they are not for blue water, I'm not boat shopping got a Yankee 38 and trying to get it to pass a shakedown.
Beneteaus cross oceans.
I am at Perry's monument in my Catalina 34 which I love.
The most boat I can fit on a small light trailer. Also, the boat should be dry inside while it's wet outside. A huge storm? Bring it on. Nothing should break.
Ok I stumbled upon your channel by good fortune. So what about a choice for a guy that knows nothing about sailing BUT is looking for something that is affordable, go anywhere, and is easy to handle for 1? I forsee short sails to begin with, destinations like the keys, Caribbean, etc. However once education and experience is gained I Invision a trip across the Atlantic and bounce around through the Mediterranean
.. Cheers to you.
I want to hear more about the sailboat convoy. How did you find it?
How many degrees higher could the catalina point (estimated)?
What are your thoughts on a Catalina/Morgan 440 which has moved up on my short list? Lead keel, raised salon and solid glass hull. Thanks in advance.
I was interested in one and after survey I decided to walk away. Blisters and termites were the main reason.
@@marcoslusso2163 Thank you, blisters can be a major issue and $$
Catalina 42 is my dream boat.
U can buy mine when I'm done in a couple years
It is good that you do not express your opinion often because it clouds your judgement and facts. C42 is keel stepped, Island packet is a production boat. I might give you the stay sail but there are a lot of C42's that have added an inner stay to give them some more options.
Would like to hear your thoughts on the Catalina 425.
Island Packet anywhere in any weather?.... yeah as long as it's at least 15 knots or above.
Are all Catalina’s 42 MKII with deck stepped mast? I believe that I saw some that are keel stepped. Is it true? Does it depend on the year?
All Catalina 42’s are keel stepped.
Yes keel stepped. I made the mistake.
@@LadyKSailing does it make your preference tilt even more towards the Catalina?
Best video yet. Please share more “opinions”, they’re right on the mark.
You left the door open there at the end. So, what are your dream cruising boat?
Haha loaded question 😂
good day, i am looking for a liveaboard boat to move to the carribeans / panama , i found for pretty much the same price , same shape , same equipment , a 75 whitby 42 and a 74 morgan out island 41 . wich one would you choose? do i roll the dices ? please let me know . thank you sir.
Hey. Nice boats. A lot of people like those centre cockpit boats. I'd have to walk inside each one before I chose. They're so similar.
This sounds like a, "Do I need a bluewater boat" conversation. Since I'm island hopping, the answer for me is no. Of course -- I'm sailing what I can charter. I do think some of the "island hopping" boats could do with something besides a bolt on keel. Hope you did well in the races. :D
another great episode
Hey!..hello...like your videos. Tks a lot. I have a question. What do you think about Nauticat 385, year 2005-7 ?
Im looking for a pilothouse yacht, and they are very expensive. Love the concept. Its true that this shipyard really changed these designs for ones with more seaworthy capabilities or not? There is very little information. I plan to go around the planet several times. They seemed to me very capable sailboats on paper. I would like to know your opinion, and understand if this hypothetical "renewed" model according to the finns, really improved its sailing capabilities?
Greetings and thanks for everything. ✌️💥⛵️
PD: I saw the Episode 137, but your talking about the old models. Right?
I like opinions. 👍