Thanks for the video! You said that you would prefer a Fronius battery while I believe that it should be compatible with more battery makes than just BYD. Open sistems are always better since you are not obliged to get the only available option.
yes it's a big issue for me also. BYD and LG Resu Flex only for fronius gen 24. i believe it's also due to the required voltage (those are high voltage like 200V min) . But i completely agree i really don't like the closeness of the system.
One question: Can the inverter be used to charge the battery from grid? E.g. during winter months to take advantage of lower-cost overnight rates on Time-of-use tariffs? P.S. - Fantastic videos. You've pretty much convinced me to choose Fronius when I get my system next year!
Yes the GEN24 Plus can be used to charge a battery. It pairs well with BYD batteries if you are installing a new system, otherwise you can retrofit Tesla Powerwall to an existing GEN24 Plus system. Here's Mark's ultimate solar battery guide video: th-cam.com/video/lgwnzLvvaZI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=JyIK7NDHAe7SCigV
I opted for a AC coupled battery primarily because it offered flexibility and I was not limited to a single point of failure. The cost was little bit dear but I think the options it provides was worth it. I have 2 Tesla Powerwall 2 each capable of delivering 5Kw/h of energy. When the induction cooktop is in action and AC/Heating is running, I easily go over the 5KW/h that one battery is capable of generating, that means if I were to run any other energy heavy equipment, the other powerwall battery will be able to handle it hence I won't need any power from the grid to supplement the spike.
We love the Powerwall too. Mark created a comparison review about the Tesla Powerwall versus the BYD Batttery: th-cam.com/video/MJJexnop6Xw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rVOlTVHsBnZBjbgQ
90s changeover isn't too bad. If you worry about your computers you should have a UPS, in which case most UPSs will run at least 90 seconds (even a small/cheap one). In the scheme of things, another $500 on your install will add a UPS to your computer room.
Just had one of these installed in Spain with a BYD HVM battery. Only two weeks but working well so far. Even in winter as we are now it is producing above expectations. Is that demonstrating the efficiency of the MPPT trackers? Wish the blackout changeover was a UPS like 30ms at this price point though. App is average to be polite, hope the new one is a big improvement!
Hi Adam, I'd like to give credit to the MPPT, but i would say the estimate is just conservative. I don't use the app much, I just jump on solarweb.com - even on my phone.
what is the medium changeover backup time? 1sec? 2 sec? 700ms? i know it is nont an Ups but an Eps (where E standa for emergency) but i would just undersand if it takes long time like 5...13 seconds or as low as one or two seconds
@@realista182 I still do not have the backup option as its currently not allowed in Spain :-( But I have been told it is about 30s from losing power to restoring power and running from solar/battery alone. Not sure if the switch over back to grid tied is seamless or not though when power is restored. Its not great and hopefully that time can come down with updates.
@@adamcole4808 thank u. however i suppose the changeover time only happens during day then you are not using battery. if a blackout happens at 23:00pm i suppose therr will be 0ms changeover time because in theory you ALREADY ARE using the battery....so in my opinion even during blackout the response time does not even exists. but these are only suppositions
So there is no display for monitoring. How do i monitor the system if the grid is offline, so no internet, and i am using the black out power outlet. How do i know then how much i can use?
Great video - thanks. A question on battery charging. I'm in the UK where we're starting to get variable electricity tariffs (e.g. Octopus Agile which changes every 30mins so it's very expensive at peak times, but very cheap otherwise). In winter I use way more electricity than I generate (10kW roof, in December often only 5kWh per day). With some systems it's possible to program a controller with an app to charge the battery from the grid at cheap times, then to avoid using energy from the grid from 5pm to 7pm when it's very expensive. Is this possible with the Fronius Gen24 plus with a 10kWh battery? (BTW I'm in your bracket of people with a good FIT and heavy electricity use).
Just found you. Great videos. Going thru the mind boggling selection from 3 installers supplied via Solar Quotes. I found your videos on the Enphase & Fronius Inverter comparison so interesting…… ‘snakes and ladders’ for me. Back to square one for me. More questions Can you drop the ‘lift music’ - so not needed.
Great review! Question - You mention the importance of cooling the electronics and as a retired Electrical Engineer I understand this. I have recently had a Sungrow SG10RT (with 18 Canadian panels) installed and during peak output I cannot keep my hand on the top surfaces of the inverter. Is this normal or should I be considering some external fan assist? Thanks for the channel.
@@mcelectrical Thanks Mark for that. I have already taken a Case Cooling Fan from an old PC with the 12V power supply too. I will run this through a thermal switch, say 40°C, and see how that works before looking for something more permanent.
The video is very interesting but I would like to know the continuous output to the battery as you comment that I have current and voltage output since the battery,It seems to be as you comment that that output can be activated,The test would be to try to see what output in voltage and intensity can be controlled through the canbus,Then an interesting test would be to activate the output and see the output pulse train( PWM SIGNAL CAN ).And its correlation with the output voltage and intensity with which we could use any type of battery controlling this with a good one with an external bms.And always obviously not for end customers but as an experiment try to connect some batteries pb opz or pylontech litium Perfect, I especially love the analysis you make of microinverters and I follow your channel.Greetings from Andalusia Spain
i cannot see the Problem with a 2 or even 3-string setup, you can run 2 parallel Strings on MPPT1 and a single String on MPPT2. fx 2*13 panels east/west and 10 north (south here in Europe ;))
Wait, are you saying this Inverter will operate Off Grid if you use your existing Off grid system to AC couple it and use to simulate grid In connection ? Or there is two separate AC inputs?
Hi Mark thanks and as usual this was a great vlog from a while ago. My question is more 2023s, I read that Fronius now also supplies the Gen24 as a future hybrid after a firmware update one can buy, how does that work?
I've preordered Cyber Truck and its supposed to have by directional electrical flow capabilities to and from the 110 & 220 V outlets in the bed of the truck. What's a chance this inverter would work? I know its a very long shot :)
Hi, is it possible to install a Tesla model 3 battery pack or 1 or 2 battery modules into the gen 24 inverter? Voltage would be 400V if a complete Tesla battery pack or 96/100V if the tesla battery modules are connected in parallel.
I am designing a hybrid solar PV project, and I am interested in Fronius Symo Gen24 10.0 Plus as an inverter model and brand. I have a question about this product. How many Fronius Symo Gen24 10.0 Plus can be connected in parallel? What is the maximum number of units that can be connected in parallel? I am hoping for your response. I am also willing to learn more about this product.
Sir, please I am looking on technical info supporting the suggestion that solar feed in has become a problem needing infrastructure upgrades. Do you have any detail or comment. My initial thought is funny business by power Mongers is going on but I'm happy to be shown otherwise.
hello, if i'm right this inverter (i have it a home) cannot adjust power by phase, mean if you have a 3-phases system it cannot put more power on one phase and less on another. usecase : you draw 2KW on L1, to compensate you need ton inject 2kW on all phases ! so if you don't have 6kW you cannot. it's sad ! Also the limitation on BYD or LG CHEM FLEX only is annoying ...
Hi Guanglier. If you are running it off grid, it can run out of balance. 3.68kw each phase max on any size gen 24. But, if you are on grid, it will be balanced. However you should have a polyphase electricity meter that will net out your consumption. Eg if you are using 2kw on phase A&B and sending back 4kW on phase C then you will not be charged by the retailer. (Unless you are not in Australia and your metering is really outdated with seperate meters for each phase).
@@mcelectrical Hi MC, thanks for your reply ! sadly yes i'll be charged... counters for consumption and counters for production are different (linky) in France, one for each phase. i injet 2 x 200W on phase A & B, and drain 100W onC, the counter says 100W consumption C, 0 consumption A&B. So you lost 2/3 of your production. If you wants to sell your electricity and have injection counters active: cannot sell if panels are on floor or garden (sic !) you need to have them on roof !. if they are on roof you need to make them installed by certified installer (cannot make yourself !) the installer kills your rentability with the price... And even when you sell it : i buy it at 24 cent/kWh and in auto consumption i can cell it at only 10 cent / kwh.. again kills your rentability. So in anyway everything is done to kill your rentability. And even when selling, the price to sell is very bad. It would have been so much better to get power adaptation by phase on the inverter.
Mark, I'm interested in the Fronius gen 24 plus 10kW 3 Phase hybrid but i'm really worried about the noise of the thing. I'll be installing it on the west side of my home (quite well shaded) with a double brick wall to the inside of my home (daughters bedroom) is this thing going to be too noisy?
Hi Emmet, the fan in the Gen24 is significantly quieter than the older snap inverters, but since it's back to back with your daughters bedroom, I would recommend getting your installer to show you the fan running. That way if it's louder than you'd like, you can look to have it installed in a different location.
so i currently have a fronius primo 5kw with 6.6kw of solar on it im thinking ill add the 6kw gen24 with 8kw of panels. now would the fronis primo 5kw work when there is a power outage aswell as i have the power meter? and this would allow for higher demand and or charging of the batteries
for what i know, NO. if u stack a gen24 with a non hybrid symo u can add both power but the symo will make the conversion from dc to ac, then entern into the gen24, and that inverter will convert ac to dc inside battery. so it's like to have an ac battery.... for the slave inverter, while the master inverter gen24 will be THE ONLY ONE to keep alive the solar panel string and be able to charge and discharge the BYD battery connected to gen 24. so if u will have 5kw plus 8kw u will have 13kw in normal condition but only 8kw during a power outage.
Hello, i'm running in the same issue : if it injects 1kW on one phase, it needs to inject 1kw on the other.. so always balancing currents between phases. yes you loose up to 2/3 of your produced power. sadly cannot imbalance the injected power ...
I got one. Big mistake. Looks good on paper but it's NOT what it claims to be. You cannot use it full time off grid, you will void the warranty if you do. Mine is connected to BYD batteries, another massive fail there. After six month the whole system is still playing up, shutting down and dropping out. There are NO user adjustable settings and the WiFi is very basic. If you want the fronius premium data you have to pay by the month. Rip off. My advice ? Don't touch this set up with a ten foot pole. And as for installers. Bunch of incompetent shark's.
Yes the installers do sound incompetent if they installed it off grid. No wonder you are having issues! It's a great system on grid, and in blackout situations it's good in comparison, but yes the fact that the end user can't adjust some setting like dod is a bit average. That's getting fixed though.
No music would be nice
Thanks for the video! You said that you would prefer a Fronius battery while I believe that it should be compatible with more battery makes than just BYD. Open sistems are always better since you are not obliged to get the only available option.
yes it's a big issue for me also. BYD and LG Resu Flex only for fronius gen 24. i believe it's also due to the required voltage (those are high voltage like 200V min) . But i completely agree i really don't like the closeness of the system.
One question: Can the inverter be used to charge the battery from grid? E.g. during winter months to take advantage of lower-cost overnight rates on Time-of-use tariffs?
P.S. - Fantastic videos. You've pretty much convinced me to choose Fronius when I get my system next year!
Yes the GEN24 Plus can be used to charge a battery. It pairs well with BYD batteries if you are installing a new system, otherwise you can retrofit Tesla Powerwall to an existing GEN24 Plus system. Here's Mark's ultimate solar battery guide video: th-cam.com/video/lgwnzLvvaZI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=JyIK7NDHAe7SCigV
I opted for a AC coupled battery primarily because it offered flexibility and I was not limited to a single point of failure. The cost was little bit dear but I think the options it provides was worth it. I have 2 Tesla Powerwall 2 each capable of delivering 5Kw/h of energy. When the induction cooktop is in action and AC/Heating is running, I easily go over the 5KW/h that one battery is capable of generating, that means if I were to run any other energy heavy equipment, the other powerwall battery will be able to handle it hence I won't need any power from the grid to supplement the spike.
We love the Powerwall too. Mark created a comparison review about the Tesla Powerwall versus the BYD Batttery: th-cam.com/video/MJJexnop6Xw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rVOlTVHsBnZBjbgQ
Would be keen to see a head to head with the sungrow 3 phase hybrid. Some really good pros and cons on both units.
can u tell here some pros of the sungrow?
Why not to add a facts table for the reviewed device to summarise it, including the price. The battery table was already good.
Thanks for the video.
90s changeover isn't too bad. If you worry about your computers you should have a UPS, in which case most UPSs will run at least 90 seconds (even a small/cheap one). In the scheme of things, another $500 on your install will add a UPS to your computer room.
wtf 90 seconds? powerwall 2 is rated max 5 seconds....and generally i read it s about 1 or 2 secons. why more than one MINUTE with fronius?
My victron takes less than a second. Lights flicker a tiny bit but computers do not go off.
Should of shown a video of it running to see if it’s as loud as the older fronius
Just had one of these installed in Spain with a BYD HVM battery. Only two weeks but working well so far. Even in winter as we are now it is producing above expectations. Is that demonstrating the efficiency of the MPPT trackers? Wish the blackout changeover was a UPS like 30ms at this price point though. App is average to be polite, hope the new one is a big improvement!
Hi Adam, I'd like to give credit to the MPPT, but i would say the estimate is just conservative. I don't use the app much, I just jump on solarweb.com - even on my phone.
Fronius is working hard to iron up the App, but I also prefer SolarWeb for monitoring.
what is the medium changeover backup time? 1sec? 2 sec? 700ms? i know it is nont an Ups but an Eps (where E standa for emergency) but i would just undersand if it takes long time like 5...13 seconds or as low as one or two seconds
@@realista182 I still do not have the backup option as its currently not allowed in Spain :-( But I have been told it is about 30s from losing power to restoring power and running from solar/battery alone. Not sure if the switch over back to grid tied is seamless or not though when power is restored. Its not great and hopefully that time can come down with updates.
@@adamcole4808 thank u. however i suppose the changeover time only happens during day then you are not using battery. if a blackout happens at 23:00pm i suppose therr will be 0ms changeover time because in theory you ALREADY ARE using the battery....so in my opinion even during blackout the response time does not even exists. but these are only suppositions
So there is no display for monitoring.
How do i monitor the system if the grid is offline, so no internet, and i am using the black out power outlet.
How do i know then how much i can use?
Great video - thanks.
A question on battery charging. I'm in the UK where we're starting to get variable electricity tariffs (e.g. Octopus Agile which changes every 30mins so it's very expensive at peak times, but very cheap otherwise). In winter I use way more electricity than I generate (10kW roof, in December often only 5kWh per day). With some systems it's possible to program a controller with an app to charge the battery from the grid at cheap times, then to avoid using energy from the grid from 5pm to 7pm when it's very expensive. Is this possible with the Fronius Gen24 plus with a 10kWh battery? (BTW I'm in your bracket of people with a good FIT and heavy electricity use).
Just found you. Great videos.
Going thru the mind boggling selection from 3 installers supplied via Solar Quotes.
I found your videos on the Enphase & Fronius Inverter comparison so interesting…… ‘snakes and ladders’ for me. Back to square one for me. More questions
Can you drop the ‘lift music’ - so not needed.
Why thy do not allow any type of battery to use. So you can do your own battery bank? On Victron it does not matter
agree, captive solutions ..
Great review! Question - You mention the importance of cooling the electronics and as a retired Electrical Engineer I understand this. I have recently had a Sungrow SG10RT (with 18 Canadian panels) installed and during peak output I cannot keep my hand on the top surfaces of the inverter. Is this normal or should I be considering some external fan assist? Thanks for the channel.
Hi Stan, yes Sugrow runs pretty hot. I probably would go to the effort of external fan cooling, but allowing for ventilation is a good idea.
@@mcelectrical Thanks Mark for that. I have already taken a Case Cooling Fan from an old PC with the 12V power supply too. I will run this through a thermal switch, say 40°C, and see how that works before looking for something more permanent.
The video is very interesting but I would like to know the continuous output to the battery as you comment that I have current and voltage output since the battery,It seems to be as you comment that that output can be activated,The test would be to try to see what output in voltage and intensity can be controlled through the canbus,Then an interesting test would be to activate the output and see the output pulse train( PWM SIGNAL CAN ).And its correlation with the output voltage and intensity with which we could use any type of battery controlling this with a good one with an external bms.And always obviously not for end customers but as an experiment try to connect some batteries pb opz or pylontech litium
Perfect, I especially love the analysis you make of microinverters and I follow your channel.Greetings from Andalusia Spain
Does the pvpoint operates when you have no sun or more correctly when you have no power on your grid ?
Is there an unbalance load function on the fronius? I think thats the most important feauture on any hybrid inverter 3ph
A 3 phase inverter can run out of balance off Grid - 3.68kW per phase.
@@mcelectrical what about unbalance load on-Grid, is this supported by Fronius Symo GEN24 ?
i cannot see the Problem with a 2 or even 3-string setup, you can run 2 parallel Strings on MPPT1 and a single String on MPPT2. fx 2*13 panels east/west and 10 north (south here in Europe ;))
Wait, are you saying this Inverter will operate Off Grid if you use your existing Off grid system to AC couple it and use to simulate grid In connection ? Or there is two separate AC inputs?
Hi Mark thanks and as usual this was a great vlog from a while ago. My question is more 2023s, I read that Fronius now also supplies the Gen24 as a future hybrid after a firmware update one can buy, how does that work?
Simple. It’s an over the air update. Your installer will organise it when they install the battery and it will cost you about $800 to upgrade. Mark.
@@mcelectrical Thanks
I've preordered Cyber Truck and its supposed to have by directional electrical flow capabilities to and from the 110 & 220 V outlets in the bed of the truck. What's a chance this inverter would work? I know its a very long shot :)
I am in the same position and am wanting to know more info...like what amount of power will the Cybertruck power outlet provide.
Hi, is it possible to install a Tesla model 3 battery pack or 1 or 2 battery modules into the gen 24 inverter? Voltage would be 400V if a complete Tesla battery pack or 96/100V if the tesla battery modules are connected in parallel.
I am designing a hybrid solar PV project, and I am interested in Fronius Symo Gen24 10.0 Plus as an inverter model and brand. I have a question about this product.
How many Fronius Symo Gen24 10.0 Plus can be connected in parallel? What is the maximum number of units that can be connected in parallel?
I am hoping for your response. I am also willing to learn more about this product.
Is there an option you’d recommend for fully off grid in NSW, been looking at selectronic or victron. Unsure what other options are suitable
Sir, please I am looking on technical info supporting the suggestion that solar feed in has become a problem needing infrastructure upgrades. Do you have any detail or comment. My initial thought is funny business by power Mongers is going on but I'm happy to be shown otherwise.
How does this compare to the LG ESS HOME 8 inverter?
hello, if i'm right this inverter (i have it a home) cannot adjust power by phase, mean if you have a 3-phases system it cannot put more power on one phase and less on another. usecase : you draw 2KW on L1, to compensate you need ton inject 2kW on all phases ! so if you don't have 6kW you cannot. it's sad !
Also the limitation on BYD or LG CHEM FLEX only is annoying ...
Hi Guanglier. If you are running it off grid, it can run out of balance. 3.68kw each phase max on any size gen 24. But, if you are on grid, it will be balanced. However you should have a polyphase electricity meter that will net out your consumption. Eg if you are using 2kw on phase A&B and sending back 4kW on phase C then you will not be charged by the retailer. (Unless you are not in Australia and your metering is really outdated with seperate meters for each phase).
@@mcelectrical Hi MC, thanks for your reply ! sadly yes i'll be charged... counters for consumption and counters for production are different (linky) in France, one for each phase. i injet 2 x 200W on phase A & B, and drain 100W onC, the counter says 100W consumption C, 0 consumption A&B. So you lost 2/3 of your production. If you wants to sell your electricity and have injection counters active: cannot sell if panels are on floor or garden (sic !) you need to have them on roof !. if they are on roof you need to make them installed by certified installer (cannot make yourself !) the installer kills your rentability with the price... And even when you sell it : i buy it at 24 cent/kWh and in auto consumption i can cell it at only 10 cent / kwh.. again kills your rentability.
So in anyway everything is done to kill your rentability. And even when selling, the price to sell is very bad.
It would have been so much better to get power adaptation by phase on the inverter.
wgat type of transformer is inside? its seems light weight?
how about AC coupling with Victron? I have 3phase SymoGen24Plus and want to make a Offgrid system with 48V battery...
Hi Edijis,
The Gen24 is not designed as an offgrid inverter, so its only warranted to run off grid for 20 percent of it's life.
Mark, I'm interested in the Fronius gen 24 plus 10kW 3 Phase hybrid but i'm really worried about the noise of the thing. I'll be installing it on the west side of my home (quite well shaded) with a double brick wall to the inside of my home (daughters bedroom) is this thing going to be too noisy?
Hi Emmet, the fan in the Gen24 is significantly quieter than the older snap inverters, but since it's back to back with your daughters bedroom, I would recommend getting your installer to show you the fan running. That way if it's louder than you'd like, you can look to have it installed in a different location.
@@mcelectrical hello i understand that is it possible to force the FAN working ?
so i currently have a fronius primo 5kw with 6.6kw of solar on it im thinking ill add the 6kw gen24 with 8kw of panels. now would the fronis primo 5kw work when there is a power outage aswell as i have the power meter? and this would allow for higher demand and or charging of the batteries
for what i know, NO. if u stack a gen24 with a non hybrid symo u can add both power but the symo will make the conversion from dc to ac, then entern into the gen24, and that inverter will convert ac to dc inside battery. so it's like to have an ac battery.... for the slave inverter, while the master inverter gen24 will be THE ONLY ONE to keep alive the solar panel string and be able to charge and discharge the BYD battery connected to gen 24. so if u will have 5kw plus 8kw u will have 13kw in normal condition but only 8kw during a power outage.
is this supporting unbalanced power loads? example: can this deliver 6kwh as follows: L1: 4kwh, L2: 1kwh, L3: 1kwh ?
Hi Bogdan, this might help answer your question . www.mcelectrical.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/byd-blackout-sizing-guide-v5.x64370.png
Hello, i'm running in the same issue : if it injects 1kW on one phase, it needs to inject 1kw on the other.. so always balancing currents between phases. yes you loose up to 2/3 of your produced power. sadly cannot imbalance the injected power ...
Please , it's so hard to understand while the music is distracting .
Noted, thanks for your feedback.
Is this single phase.
Its a shame it can't do the whole house, but only one GPO
see carbon lead battery (ultra battery).
Can you use this off grid?
Its fine to run it in blackout mode for about 20 percent of it's life. But it is not designed as a permanent off grid inverter.
I got one. Big mistake. Looks good on paper but it's NOT what it claims to be. You cannot use it full time off grid, you will void the warranty if you do.
Mine is connected to BYD batteries, another massive fail there. After six month the whole system is still playing up, shutting down and dropping out.
There are NO user adjustable settings and the WiFi is very basic. If you want the fronius premium data you have to pay by the month. Rip off.
My advice ? Don't touch this set up with a ten foot pole. And as for installers. Bunch of incompetent shark's.
Yes the installers do sound incompetent if they installed it off grid. No wonder you are having issues! It's a great system on grid, and in blackout situations it's good in comparison, but yes the fact that the end user can't adjust some setting like dod is a bit average. That's getting fixed though.