Archie Moore said, *"ROCKY MARCIANO WAS ABOUT 15 YEARS YOUNGER THAN I WAS"* --@ Archie Moore Talks 2007TBears Archie Moore also said, *"I WAS IN MY (40's) FORTY'S VS. FLOYD PATTERSON,"* --@ Rare Archie Moore Interview The host asks Archie Moore, (@ 6:35) "why does your mother say your one age and you say another?" Archie replies, *"I DON'T DENY ANYTHING"* .. *"I NEVER DENY WHAT MY MOTHER QUOTES"* .. *"I KNOW MY AGE"* .. *"AND I'VE BEFUDDLED A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REQUIRING ABOUT MY AGE CONSTANTLY"* .. *"AND THAT KEEPS ME IN THE NEWS."* --@ Day and Night: Archie Moore, boxer *Light heavyweight Moore was easily in his 40s vs. little 184lb-cruiser Rocky and that is no longer debatable!!!*
According to Marciano himself, Muhammad Ali would have won. Rocky said three boxers in his lifetime were a bridge too far for him, a young Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, and Ali. Louis for hand speed and power, Ali for pure speed, and Liston for technical excellence and pure brute strength. --by Mike Stanton and Fight City
Peter Marciano, Rocky's younger brother, admitted Rocky retired from the ring bcz, *"losing a fight would be a tremendous embarrassment to him."* So that's why he quit, he was Terrified of Losing!!! Peter says that --@ 13:10 *ROCKY MARCIANO vs MUHAMMAD ALI - THE SUPER FIGHT | DOCUMENTARY from BBTV BOXING* It's no wonder he had no losses! He only had a mere 8yr boxing career! Louis's 19yrs is acceptable,, Walcott's 22yrs fine,, Moore's 27yrs all good,, Charles's 20yrs no problems. BUT BUT Little Mr. Midget Man only fights 8yrs then pitifully runs away from *EMBARRASSMENT!!!!* The funniest thing about this docu is they build little 184lb-cruiser Rocky up as if he were a Phenom, *but towards the end they all agree that a prime Ali would have beaten him in a real boxing match LOL!!!*
Ali actually put little 184lb-cruiser Marciano in the hospital for an entire week after their ballet choreographed sparing match. *"Rocky entered into the hospital for exhaustion, dehydration and torn bicep." --Peter Marciano* ... I've seen a lot of Getty and Fight City images. Rocky had zero muscle tone and fat was hangin everywhere. He looked *Terrible* and was only 45. That's not all. U could clearly see Ali was at least 6" taller!
When asked who was the hardest puncher he'd ever faced, Archie replied, *"CURTIS 'HATCHETMAN' SHEPPARD. I SAW SHEPPARD HIT OPPONENTS ON THE TOP OF THE HEAD, IN THE FOREHEAD, AND KNOCK THEM OUT LIKE HE DID HAVE A HATCHET IN HIS HAND. I SAW HIM HIT A GUY IN THE HEAD AND BREAK HIS COLLARBONE.”* -@ Archie Moore interview 1998 Heart of San Diego. It's kinda eerie listenin to Archie describe Curtis. Apparently 'The Hatchetman' traumatized Archie. 'The Hatchetman' is the only person to ever KO Joey Maxim. Light heavyweight Joey was flattened cold in only 0:51 seconds! Many fighters similar to Curtis Sheppard and Ted Lowry were never going get a title shot for obvious reasons. That's why they intentionally lost so many times. But hey,, they still made a decent living taking dives and padding records for $$$
Joe Lewis was sick in the end of his life and was in the hospital Marciano paid hospital bills and supported him and visited him on a regular despite emotionally crushed Marciano. Fact is Joe Lewis wanted to fight Marciano because Joe Lewis needed money.
Muhammad Ali, "Umm Marciano... Marciano, umm, phew, ooh he hit hard. He hit you so hard *unrecognizable* folks in Africa." Cosell, "But you think you could have beaten him too?" Ali, "Well it a been rough, look Howard, I don't take nothing from these fellas especially those deceased. Marciano and I were good friends, but I truly think on my best day and his best day I would have beaten him, probably not knocked him out, I been sore, I think he was better than Joe Frazier I'd put it that way. I truly think he was better than Joe Frazier. I think it be even, he may have won - it's just hard, it's just up to the imagination. Cosell, " You know you started out with so much braggadocio, now you're ending with humility." Ali, "Yea, you got the last man Marciano. Showing him last, you did the right thing. He wasn't as great as me, wasn't as beautiful everyone knows that. But I don't know if I would have beat him with his style and my style. He could've out-pointed me, could've knocked me down. Did a computer fight with him when he was an old man just pretending and my arms were so sore just for joking with him. In his heyday he may have won, he probably wouldn't... that's up for the imagination. In the end I still think I'm the greatest of all time!" Later, in part 6 Ali flips a script saying that *"a prime Louis, Walcott, Charles, and Moore would've beat Marciano."* He then goes on to his usual *"I'm the greatest"* after part 6. Why was the most important part removed?? *Ali said, "a prime Louis, Walcott, Charles, and Moore would've beat Marciano."* *This valuable information has been suppressed for 48 years!!!* Imagine all the uploaders that have been entering incorrect information for decades!!! Truth is Rocky uploaders removed 3 hours 28 minutes because it didn't align with their agenda!!! *The Fact is Ali Hated Marciano!!!* Why not just use Rocky's resume to defend him instead of hiding vital information?? Well because Rocky's resume is Horseshirt, that's why!!! Y'all can order copies *@ Muhammad Ali Archival Television Audio Inc* just go to the 3rd page to order 9889 is 90 MIN, 9889A is 30 MIN and 9890 is 90 MIN. That's 3 1/2 hours of Ali discussing Marciano Walcott Charles Moore and Louis.. *"a prime Louis, Walcott, Charles, and Moore would've beat Marciano."* - Muhammad Ali, 02/15/76 (As more proof Dave Diles explains Ali discussing Marciano Walcott Charles Moore in depth @ 0:15 or very beginning of *1976 Daytona 500 - ABC Wide World of Sports coverage* from NascarAllOut)
Louis bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky only *7* years Walcott bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Charles bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Moore bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years Savold bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky only *7* years Matthews bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky only *7* years LaStarza bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky only *7* years Cockell bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Lowry bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years 1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)* 1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)* 2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1 3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1 4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)* 1947 5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1 6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)* *1947-03-17 PROFESSIONAL Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, and March in 1948.* 1948 *(Rocky goes back to the amateurs)* 7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1 8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3 9. February George McInnis TKO-1 10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)* 11. March Fred Fischera KO 12. March George McGinnis W-3 *1948-07-12 (Rocky goes back to pro) Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano.. Don Cuoco and Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson because once Pro you cannot go back to the amateurs.* Louis fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky quit at *49* Walcott fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Charles fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49* Moore fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Savold fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Matthews fought *(103)* times...little Rocky quit at *49* LaStarza fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49* Cockell fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49* Lowry fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49* Layne fought *(70)* times............little Rocky quit at *49* Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times Layne Lost *(17)* times and was KO'd *(6)* times *Shocking isn't it? We never see these stats bcz they're always suppressed. Today's Genuine Super Heavyweights Miller Zhang Bakole Joshua Fury Ruiz Parker Kabayel Itauma Jalolov Dubois only have a combined (15) losses yet they're already being thrown under the bus for eternity but it's perfectly fine for little Rocky's little opponents to have a combined ((753)) losses!!!* *HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:* Lewis --------- *2* Holmes ------ *6* Ali -------------- *5* Vitali ----------- *2* Foreman ---- *5* Tyson -------- *6* Wladimir ---- *5* Bowe --------- *1* Liston -------- *4* Louis --------- *3* Holyfield -- *10* Frazier ------- *4* Norton ------- *7* Tunney ------ *1* Dempsey --- *6* Johnson --- *11* *"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- Lennox Lewis
Marciano beat whoever was put in front of him. Walcott was older but was Heavyweight champ for a reason, Archie Moore , Ezzard Charles weren’t pushovers 🤷♂️
The subtext here is that Joe needed money and thay was the best way for him to get paid. Joe was very patriotic. He'd invested most of his fortune into war bonds that became worthless after the war was over. It's odd because they kept his money and sunk it back into the military industrial complex. They played up the Americans vs Kraut hype when Louis fought Schmeiling. The irony is that Schmeiling had zero love for Hitler and The Third Reich. But he toed the line to protect himself and his family. Fast forward, Max's companies made money and he gave Joe enough money to sustain for the remainder of his life. Rocky was a hungry fighter but he didn't want to do Joe like that. But when that bell rings, I suppose it doesnt matter who the other guy is.
Joe Louis was up in age, he was fighting a younger boxer, we all know that was not fair😮😢,Jack Johnson and Muhammad Ali was the greatest boxer of all time and next Came Mike Tyson😊🎉
Yeah Rocky fought guys in their later years but that happens to most guys coming up hence coming up. The only difference is is that Rocky had no physical or talent advantage. 🤦
I don’t blame anything on Rocky. He fought everyone around even if they were way past their prime. Wasn’t Rockys fault but in NO way he would’ve beaten Ali IMO Size alone it would b dam near impossible
"From the beginning and all through the buildup of the Walcott vs. Louis 1 fight in 1947, the press criticized Walcott. *In no time at all, his age became a huge subject of debate. Every sports reporter claimed that Jersey Joe was at least 38 years old. Others said he was older.* Sportswriters dubbed him "Pappy," "elderly," "ancient," and "aging" were commonly used to describe Walcott. Since he was born at home and not in a hospital, he could not prove his age with a birth certificate that was filed when he was born. Walcott had to have a birth certificate for the different state boxing commission's inorder to continue boxing. Needless to say Walcott haphazardly created and filed a birth certificate in 1936 when he was in his mid 20s at the Camden Bureau of Vital Statistics." *It's all there in Walcott's biography Chapter 9 page 71. If Walcott was 38 when he fought Louis in 47 wouldn't that put him at 43 when he faced little Rocky in 52?*
It makes perfect sense when ya study Walcott's facial features and the way his legs faded around the 10th round against little Rocky. That's exactly why he got trapped against the ropes with both hands down during the unlucky 13th. As Rocky slowly shuffled towards Walcott why didn't he move to his left or right like he was previously doing? *Bcz his ring worn 40yr old senior citizen legs were washed, that's why.* Hey, it happens to us all. Nobody escapes father time!
Journeyman Joe Walcott lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end. He is only remembered for his losses, Not his wins! Who did he beat? His only respectable win came against light heavyweight Charles who factually had Lou Gehrig's disease when they fought in 51. Walcott lost to 'middleweights' Mays ,, Palmer ,, Ketchell ,, AND 'light' heavyweights Charles 'twice' ,, Fox 'twice' ,, Maxim ,, Brothers ,, Taylor. Would Journeyman Joe be a great Heavyweight today? How could he when he consistently lost to Middleweights and Light heavyweights. Walcott was never an ATG. At best he was C-LEVEL Journeyman. This is important. Walcott retired for 4 years and 4 months, during his Prime!
Who *did little 184lb-cruiser Rocky fight? He fought nobody notable until Walcott who was at least 40 if not older. Walcott never had a birth certificate, he created one in his mid 20s. It's all in his biography, Chapter 9 page 71. Then there was little LH Charles who had symptoms of Lou Gehrig's in 1951. It's all in his biography by William Dettloff. Rocky rapidly quit his very short career against another little light heavyweight, Archie Moore who was at least 42 if not older. Sad.*
Little 184lb-cruiser Marciano didn't even come close to cleaning out his division like Liston, Ali, Louis and Lennox did. *Marciano ducked Marty Marshall, Valdez, Johnson, Baker, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith, and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard.* How could he have possibly cleaned out his division when he only defended his title a measly (6) times??? Had Rocky fought only 3 more years, through 1959, he would've had to fight Johansson, Williams, Liston and Patterson. And yes those four guys had a few losses. At least they didn't have a combined 85 losses like Walcott Charles Moore Layne had! Correct? *I ASSURE YOU Johansson Williams Liston Patterson were 10x better than anything little Rocky EVER faced.* But of course we were all robbed of seeing any of those bouts bcz little Rocky was a *"'QUITTER!!!"'*
It's clear as day that Moore's 42yr old speed is shot against both Marciano and Patterson. All though ya couldn't notice it with Marciano because he was just as slow as Moore. A fighter is in his prime when he has the maturity and experience to go along with undiminished reflexes. Once his reflexes start to slide he's past-prime, simple as that. When his reflexes are gone he's a shot fighter. I can't recall seeing a fighter older than his early 30s that still had his reflexes fully intact.
Walcott was at least 40yrs old when he fought Marciano. He had already retired once before (4yrs) and was now at the very tail end of his career. Which makes perfect sense when ya study Walcott's facial features and the way his legs started wearing out around the 10th round. That's exactly why Walcott got stuck against the ropes with both hands down. As Rocky slowly shuffled towards Walcott why didn't he move to his left or right like he was previously doing? Bcz his Senior citizen legs were washed, that's why. Hey, it happens to us all. Nobody escapes father time!
*Little Rocky won his humongous Super Heavyweight title weighing a measley 184,, and there is absolutely nothing you can ever do,, or say,, to make him Bigger*
@@Robert.Levi.Miller ah you again having the time of your life commenting on everything? holy shit you must have a really dissapointing and depressive life im sure of it.....did you fail so much in your own life that you have to do this to actually feel something old man? do you have kids or do you live alone in the dark which i think will be the case........poor little creature
Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67" (1.70 meters) incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison, today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7"
Ring Magazine polled 40 boxing experts on who was the greatest Heavyweight of all-time in 1962. These are historians who were actually there when he reigned as champion and Marciano's highest ranking was 7th place. The overwhelming majority rated him lower like Nat Fleischer had him at # 10, Charley Rose and McCallum's survey of old-timers rated him at # 9. All these people were born in the late 1800s and passed away in the 1960s and 70s. Little 184lb Marciano is regarded by many as the greatest Heavyweight ever, best of the best. The question is how does he stack up with the Mount Rushmore of Heavyweights?? I don't see how his status remotely moves up with the multitude of great Heavyweights that came after him. All the professionals, trainers, managers, experts and historians who actually saw Rocky Marciano fight during the 50s and 60s thoroughly examined his career yet they barely ranked him top-10 Heavyweight, of all-time. *I trust Nat's opinion before y'all's gibberish casual diatribe.* Genius Nat Fleischer (1887-1972) was the founder, president, publisher and editor of The Ring, a monthly magazine devoted to boxing and professional wrestling. Fleischer is called Mr. Boxing, or in the cant of masters of ceremony, "Mr. Boxing, himself," an introduction uniting man and legend. Fleischer’s story in many ways is the story of boxing. His experience is unlike that of anyone else from boxing’s past and certainly no one will ever be able to make his claims in the future. In 1958 Fleischer wrote, “I have been on intimate terms with every heavyweight champion since James J. Corbett. I have seen almost every heavyweight championship bout in the past half century, and most of those in other divisions that reach across a stretch of many exciting years.” Fleischer in fact saw every heavyweight champion from Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier from ringside, most of those from the first row. Possibly no one else in history can make that claim. Fleischer’s unique perspective demands respect from those who are interested in the history of boxing. Nat tended to just report the fights as he saw it from ringside and did not editorialize too much. Nat was well known for his ability to break down and describe the styles of fighters and the action that took place in the ring. Here are some descriptions of fighters there is film on so we can compare what Nat said of them to what we know from the films. We can then know that what he said about fighters whom we have little film on is also accurate. Of Joe Louis he penned, in the April 1939 Ring, “He sails in, crashes his blows to the body and head, gives the opposition little chance to get set for a counter-attack and wards off blows with the cleverness of a Jack Johnson. Only Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey compare to Joe Louis of today in all around ability...No human body can take the punishment that Jolting Joe dishes out once he goes after his prey. That has been proved conclusively in his last few contests.” In the Mar. 1942 Ring, after Louis' destruction of the 6'6" 250 pound Buddy Baer, Nat Said that “Not even in the second fight with Max Schmeling did the Detroit Destroyer show as much as he did against Buddy. Joe had everything. He was magnificent. He was a whirlwind on attack, a master of defense, a terror with his devastating punches.” In evaluating Rocky Marciano he wrote December 1955 Ring, “Those who believe that he lacks the necessary qualifications for gaining a niche in the fistic hall of fame as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time won’t argue that as a puncher, he takes his place alongside such greats as Jeffries, Louis and Dempsey. They limit his qualifications for greatness to the category of “hitting power”, strength and durability all of which Rocky possesses to a high degree but which are *insufficient to gain for him a place among the greats of the past.”* “Despite his crudeness, he can move about the ring at a pretty fast gate and can toss more punches than any heavyweight of recent years. But misses more frequently than any champion I’ve ever seen.” *“He has faced very few real punchers during his career.* The two best, Walcott and Moore- both thirty-eight at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. *Joe Louis is not included* since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.” Besides putting out the highly regarded Ring-Fleischer has published Nat Fleischer's Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia.The Ring Record Book is the most comprehensive of all annual reference sources on boxing. Mainly in the interests of boxing, Fleischer has made 37 trips to Europe and has gone around the world six times, furiously writing all the while. He has 20 passports. Discounting entertainers, Fleischer is the most widely known U.S. private citizen abroad. He is enshrined in the Helms Hall of Fame in Los Angeles. Fleischer has refereed and judged more than 1,000 fights. All told, Fleischer has published 57 books of history, biography and instruction on boxing. Fleischer has a 268,800-word "bibliography" of boxing. Counting his articles for The Ring and serials and pieces he dashes off in an hour or so for foreign publications, it has been estimated that Fleischer has written 40 million words in his lifetime.
Rocky Marciano's record, 49-0, seeing that it looks and sounds so good. That is, until I take a peek at who he actually fought during his career. I feel, that boxing was more unskilled back then, the fighters looked so weak, and the Heavyweight division, in particular, so watered down due to many of the young American men being forced to serve in the Korean War. Marciano, though, seems to mean a lot to people, almost seeming like a symbol for some of them, and brings out some strong assumptions about his place in history. If you for one second question Marciano’s record, it’s as if you comitted some cardinal sin or something. Give me a break. He was a good fighter, but not that good. While I am fond of the Heavyweight division, I don’t really consider Marciano to be a true Heavyweight given his short stature, which, at 5’ 10” 185 lb, he would even be considered small for Cruiserweight in this day and age. However, Marciano’s good luck of fighting during the war years, which had to have had a dramatic effect on the pool of quality opponents to compete with. I mean, it hardly seems sporting that there were so few quality fighters to gauge Marciano’s talent. What’s even worse, Marciano’s career Heavyweight championship reign, a mere three years and 6 six fights, came about, luckily for him, after Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott, had aged beyond their prime, leaving Marciano free to beat up on the older warriors when they weren’t at their best. Probably, for many people, what I’m saying about Marciano, is a bitter pill to swallow, but if you look into his ring history very far, I’m sure most of you would come to the same conclusion. Marciano, at the age of 32, announced his retirement from boxing in April 1956. The announcement was a shock for many people, needless to say, for they figured that Marciano was going to hold onto the title for years to come, and had not seen a fighter Quit while at the top. Perhaps the punishment from Moore, and his two ring wars with Charles, gave him a hint that he didn’t have much longer. Or possibly, Marciano might have been hearing the footsteps of the next heavyweight champion, Floyd Patterson, who was a young up and coming contender, with a 30-1 record at the time of Marciano’s retirement. Patterson would later win the vacant heavyweight title, stopping Archie Moore in the 5th round in November 1956, the same year that Marciano retired. Personally, I feel that Marciano was tremendously overrated as a fighter. He was good, yes, but he fought his toughest fights against fighters that were beyond their best years. So, when looking at his accomplishments, one must keep that in mind, otherwise you’re seeing a warped image of how good Marciano really was. Moreover, his ring record of 49-0, was largely built on fighting 2nd and 3rd tier fighters, opponents that were essentially ring fodder and were easily knocked out by decent fighters. The fact that the vast majority of his opponents were of marginal ability, along with the old age and ring wear of the ones that were good, and you get a beautiful record of 49-0. It looks good on paper, but it hardly means that you were the best.
*EZZARD CHARLES WAS 100% FACTUALLY HANDICAPPED WITH LOU GEHRIG'S DISEASE WHEN HE FOUGHT ROCKY MARCIANO!!!* William Dettloff’s biography *'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'* documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, as early as 1951. This was 3 years before the Marciano fights, and it was also the same year he lost his title. Ezzard, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. Bert Sugar said, *"His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50's, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* --@ 35:01 ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano *(Too many reputable witnesses!!)* *(Renowned physicist Stephen Hawking lived with ALS for 55 years!!)* Read *Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life by William Dettloff.* Charles already had symptoms (1951) of Lou Gehrig's disease long before he fought Rocky in 1954. How can anyone say he didn't if u've never read Ezzard's biography? If a Rocky fan were to read a Rocky biography they'd hang on to every word as if it were the holy grail. That's not all. *Rocco Francis Marchegiano was actually African Italian.*
According to Rocky fans Rocky's *"'(0)"'* meant *Everything!!!* Without it he wouldn't even be ranked top-30. Only *"'ONE'"* loss would have destroyed his entire legacy!!! Since so much emphasis is put on the *"'Perfect Record'"* can someone explain why Charles Walcott Moore Savold Lowry Layne Cockell Wilson Shkor Walls Henri Simmons Eatman Muscato and Beshore *LOST (("'411"')) TIMES?* Charles Lost (25) times Walcott Lost (20) times Moore Lost (23) times Savold Lost (45) times Lowry Lost (68) times Layne Lost (17) times Cockell Lost (14) times Wilson Lost (27) times Shkor Lost (19) times Walls Lost (41) times Henri Lost (29) times Simmons Lost (22) times Eatman Lost (21) times Muscato Lost (23) times Beshore Lost (17) times *(and many more with double digit losses)* *IF "'0"' IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS DOESN'T THAT MEAN ROCKY'S OPPONENTS WERE HORSESHIRT BECAUSE THEY LOST?? SINCE THEY WERE HORSESHIRT DOESN'T THAT ALSO MEAN ROCKY'S 49-0 IS HORSESHIRT??* *"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES."* - Lennox Lewis *(Four hundred eleven losses and Rocky fans have the audacity to say today's Super Heavyweights are Bum's hahahaha.)*
178 to 188 lb tiny cruiser Marciano's opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire-CAREER record, not a partial record.* Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Pro boxers can easily be evaluated using grades *A, B, C, D, F* which has been used for decades: Lee Epperson career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone career record 0 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL* John Edwards career record 1 win 2 losses *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman career record 1 win 6 losses *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson career record 4 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft career record 12 wins 8 losses *F-LEVEL* James Connolly career record 12 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian career record 15 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson career record 3 wins 10 losses *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell career record 4 wins 17 losses *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron career record 4 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato career record 7 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie career record 10 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis career record 32 wins 14 losses *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons career record 9 wins 22 losses *F-LEVEL* Art Henri career record 18 wins 29 losses *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls career record 20 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry career record 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino career record 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic career record 18 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman career record 22 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate career record 12 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold career record 104 wins 45 losses *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato career record 56 wins 23 losses *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson career record 56 wins 27 losses *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor career record 31 wins 19 losses *D-LEVEL* Fred Beshore career record 35 wins 17 losses *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans 18 wins 8 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross 19 wins 5 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn 20 wins 4 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds 53 wins 13 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards 24 wins 9 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo 16 wins 2 losses looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell 66 wins 14 losses looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews 90 wins 7 losses is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight?* *Even Rocky's 5 best opponents: Charles, Moore, Walcott, Layne, LaStarza -- LOST (94) times and were KO'd (28) times!!!* There it is. Y'all are intelligent enough to make your own judgement about Rocky's *F-LEVEL* resume. Who did he fight? Walcott was 40, Moore 42, Charles had ALS and Louis was washed. To continue claiming he was the Greatest or even top 10 Greatest Heavyweight is absurd. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight *"Name one, just one 'Prime' all time great boxer Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore Louis was 'Prime' when they fought him?"*
Muhammad Ali, "Umm Marciano... Marciano, umm, phew, ooh he hit hard. He hit you so hard *unrecognizable* folks in Africa." Cosell, "But you think you could have beaten him too?" Ali, "Well it a been rough, look Howard, I don't take nothing from these fellas especially those deceased. Marciano and I were good friends, but I truly think on my best day and his best day I would have beaten him, probably not knocked him out, I been sore, I think he was better than Joe Frazier I'd put it that way. I truly think he was better than Joe Frazier. I think it be even, he may have won - it's just hard, it's just up to the imagination. Cosell, " You know you started out with so much braggadocio, now you're ending with humility." Ali, "Yea, you got the last man Marciano. Showing him last, you did the right thing. He wasn't as great as me, wasn't as beautiful everyone knows that. But I don't know if I would have beat him with his style and my style. He could've out-pointed me, could've knocked me down. Did a computer fight with him when he was an old man just pretending and my arms were so sore just for joking with him. In his heyday he may have won, he probably wouldn't... that's up for the imagination. In the end I still think I'm the greatest of all time!" Later, in part 6 Ali flips a script saying that *"a prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano."* He then goes on to his usual *"I'm the greatest"* after part 6. ((( *Why was the most important part removed?? Ali said, "a prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano"!!!* ))) ABC'S WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS {MUHAMMAD ALI VERSUS THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME; DAYTONA 500} Summary: This edition concludes the segment "Muhammad Ali versus the Greatest Heavyweight Champions of All Time" in which Howard Cosell and Muhammad Ali discuss the careers of great boxers. In this final portion, Cosell, with world heavyweight champion Ali at Ali's Deer Lake, Pa., training camp, discusses fight films involving these fighters: Joe Louis, Max Schmeling, Billy Conn, Ezzard Charles, Pat Valentino, and Jersey Joe Walcott. Dave Diles reports with a sports news update on the final lap of the Daytona 500 automobile race as Bill Flemming narrates the tape of the finish. Ali and Cosell resume their discussion of fight films involving the following fighters: Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, and Rocky Marciano. ABC February 15, 1976 Sunday 8 ½ hrs. (Dave Diles explains the entire 8 ½ hrs. coverage *@ 1976 Daytona 500 - ABC Wide World of Sports coverage* from NascarAllOut) ((( Moral of the story is so much of what Ali actually said about Rocky has been removed!!! This valuable information has been suppressed for 48 years!!! Imagine all the uploaders that have been entering incorrect information for decades!!! The honest truth is Rocky uploaders removed 3 hours 28 minutes because it didn't align with their agenda!!! *The Fact is Ali Hated Marciano!!!* Why not just use Rocky's resume to defend him instead of hiding vital information? Well, because Rocky's resume is utter Horseshirt, that's why!!! Y'all can order copies *@ Archival Television Audio Inc.* just type in Muhammad Ali. 9889 is 90 MIN, 9889A is 30 MIN and 9890 is 90 MIN. That's 3 1/2 hours of Ali discussing Marciano Walcott Charles Moore Louis Conn. *"A prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano."* - Muhammad Ali, February 15 1976 )))
Most people openly admit that the versions of Charles, Moore and Walcott that he fought were far from prime (The Joe Louis and Lee Savold fights really doesn't even deserve to be brought up). So it isn't the quality of Rocky's competition that his reputation is based on among the greats, it is that famous record 49-0. If Rocky's 49-0 record is the basis of his greatness then the fighters on that record should be the very best that were available. But by my reckoning that is the furthest thing from the truth. Infact when you look at the highest ranked fighters of the era, and then you look at his record, it's scandalous how many he didn't fight. Many of the ones he DID choose to fight are just as scandalous. Top fighters Marciano definitely should have fought that he didn't. *1)* Harold Johnson *2)* Oakland Billy Smith *3)* Yolande Pompey *4)* Curtis Hatchetman Sheppherd *5)* Clarence Henry *6)* Joey Maxim *7)* Marty Marshall *8)* Bob Satterfield *9)* Jimmy Bivins *10)* Lloyd Marshall *11)* Nino Valdes Those are just the definites, we could add many other names (like Tommy Jackson, Dan Bucceroni or even Bob Baker) that while not as good, are definitely better than some of the guys he DID fight that make up that "legendary" record. Guys like these; Lee Epperson (Career Record 0-1) Jimmy Weeks (Career Record 0-1) Gilbert Cardone (Career Record 0-3) John Edwards (Career Record 1-2) Bill Hardeman (Career Record 1-7) Humphrey Jackson (Career Record 4-3) Johnnie Pretzie (Career Record 10-14) Bob Jefferson (Career Record 3-10) Gilley Ferron (Career Record 4-13) Tommy DiGiorgio (Career Record 9-15) Artie Donato (Career Record 7-13) Harry Haft (Career Record 12-7) James Connoly (Career Record 12-9) Harry Bilazarian (Career Record 15-12) Joe Dominic (Career Record 18-12) Don Mogard (Career Record 20-16) Jimmy Walls (Career Record 21-41) Eldridge Eatman (Career Record 22-21) according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* Not only did Eldridge take a-dive vs. Rocky but he had just lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Why would a 26-0 boxer fight an F-LEVEL diver who had just lost 8 fights? It's clear as day Mafia Boss Carbo and underboss Al Weill cherry picked and padded Rocky's resume! Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 9 wins 22 losses. Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 7 wins 16 losses. *(Harold had just lost 10 fights in a row before diving against Rocky)* Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 18 wins 29 losses. Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 12 wins 16 losses. Immediately *((same day))* after 170-lb diver Eddie Ross was supposedly KO'd by Marciano he drove from Rhode Island Providence to Quebec City Quebec -- 8 hr 15 min 465.9 mi via I-93 N inorder to fight 160-lb Billy Sparks.. ( *"Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day."* --BoxRec and Providence Journal ) Inspect Eddie's resume, it's hilarious! None of these guys beat anyone of note! Many of these guys he even fought pretty far into his career when there were obviously alternatives. In light of this should this 49-0 record be as revered as it is to some?
*Nobody ever wants to discuss little Rocky's resume. I wouldn't either, have you seen it? It's no wonder so many Rocky fans are terrified to even look at it let alone discuss it. It's horrendous. Anything, and i mean anything to avoid his appalling F-LEVEL resume. I mean every champ fights their fair share of tomato cans but nobody, and i mean nobody fought as many F-LEVEL tomato can bums as he did! It's no joke, do the research:* Lee Epperson career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone career record 0 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL* John Edwards career record 1 win 2 losses *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman career record 1 win 7 losses *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson career record 4 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft career record 12 wins 7 losses *F-LEVEL* James Connolly career record 12 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian career record 15 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson career record 3 wins 10 losses *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell career record 7 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron career record 4 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato career record 7 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie career record 10 wins 14 losses *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis career record 32 wins 14 losses *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons career record 9 wins 22 losses *F-LEVEL* Art Henri career record 18 wins 29 losses *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls career record 21 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry career record 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino career record 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic career record 18 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman career record 22 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate career record 12 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold career record 104 wins 45 losses *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato career record 56 wins 23 losses *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson career record 56 wins 27 losses *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor career record 31 wins 19 losses *D-LEVEL* Fred Beshore career record 35 wins 17 losses *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans 18 wins 8 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross 19 wins 5 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn 20 wins 4 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds 53 wins 13 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards 24 wins 9 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo 16 wins 2 losses looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell 66 wins 14 losses looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews 90 wins 7 losses is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight?* Roland LaStarza *C-LEVEL.* LaStarza Refused fights with Charles, Moore, Walcott, Louis, Valdez, Satterfield, Bivins, Maxim, Henry, Baker, Johnson, Pompey, Marshall, Smith, Sheppard etc. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much! Rex Layne *C-LEVEL.* LaStarza vs. Layne reminds me of watching two midwest club fighters fighting a 4 rounder on an old ESPN card from Muncie, In. Two guys who were not well schooled, standing in front of each other acting like they were insulted if the other guy missed them with a punch. A lot of right hand leads, a lot of jabs with the rear foot leaving the canvas, little/no counter punching, just two guys willing to get hit but showing little boxing skill. Look how bad Rex Layne swings and misses. What an oaf. Joe Walcott *C-LEVEL.* Walcott's losses is what elevated his status and built up his credentials, not his wins!!! The fact that Walcott was granted (6) title attempts in a (5) year span speaks volumes about how weak the Heavyweight division was at this time!!! And (4) of these title opportunities came immediately after a Walcott loss!!! Archie Moore *A-LEVEL* MW/LH and *C-LEVEL* HW. Heck, Low Power 171/173 lb Charles beat him 3 times, 182 lb Patterson obliterated him, and 188 lb tiny cruiser Marciano smashed him. Every time Moore Stepped-Up in competition he got KO'D. Ezzard Charles *A-LEVEL* LH and *C-LEVEL* HW. William Dettloff’s biography *'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'* documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, as early as 1951. This was 3 years before the Marciano fights, and it was also the same year he lost his title. Ezzard, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. Bert Sugar said, *"His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50's, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* --@ 35:01 ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano *IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:* *TOO MANY D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN* *BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$.* *OR BEING MADE TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD* *THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET* *OF BOXING DURING THE 1950's!!!* *EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS* *CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM* *BCZ THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM.* *THE DAY AFTER HE RETIRED HE IMMEDIATELY* *ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT* *WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED* *HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS.* *CRY AND SCREAM ALL YA WANT BCZ IT* *CANNOT EVER SWEEP IT UNDER THE CARPET!!!* *IT WAS REAL AND VERY WELL DOCUMENTED SO STOP LIVING IN DENIAL.*
@@Robert.Levi.MillerWhat you have stated is true, he fought in a time frame in history where there were complete lack of quality heavyweights, the man himself never weighed more than 190 lbs give or take. I couldn’t imagine (as much as I respect Marciano) him boxing in the 70s 80s or when the megalithic giants (Lennox Lewis) hit the scene 90s the 2000s a sure no-no where there were monsters like the Klitschko brothers etc. It’s all speculation, but I couldn’t imagine Rocky beating these tall men with 81 inch in reach and tremendous power Sonny Liston, George Foreman and even the master technician Larry Holmes stood at 6’4 with an 81 inch arm reach.
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
@@bobbyzee54 Exactly but that's not what happened. Little Rocky actually went from 10th place in 1971 to 3rd place during the late 1970's. Can you believe that nonsense? All Time Great Heavyweight rankings are meaningless!!!!
@Stout_Krout-the amount of time you put into this, and the fact that I see it on almost every video about Rocky-do you have a life outside of hating on the guy? Have you ever been in a fight? Have you ever even thrown a punch? Get a life man
@@JoeSmith-dl9ok By way of comparison no°1 p4p Naoya Inoue has 67½″ reach, longer than light heavyweight Rocky's 67" reach. Inoue is 5' 5", Rocky 5' 9". Rocky fans continuously try to debate me. What's there to debate? How to magically make Rocky bigger? History cannot be changed, Charles Moore Matthews Marciano were light heavyweights, the overwhelming majority of that division was middleweights and light heavyweights moonlighting and/or masquerading as Heavyweights. It does not matter if Rocky's walking around weight was 210, bcz his average weight throughout his entire boxing career was only 178 to 186. He was light heavyweight period. I'd bet the farm on bantamweight Inoue to KO little Rocky in the 14th or 15th round.
A Rocky fan wrote, *"Rocky was not only a credit to the sport of boxing but he was a credit to the human race."* Oh really? Is that why he was dishonorably discharged for felony assault and robbery and, after he quit boxing he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousand and left them penniless. Some credit, he was a disgrace.
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES."* -- Lennox Lewis *"NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING HAS A 190 LB MAN BEAT A TOP-NOTCH SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING CHAMPION."* -- Ring Magazine Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Marciano said his best weight he ever fought at was, "186lbs." Tyson was 220lbs at his fastest & best. About 235lbs at his heaviest. Rocky didn't have the speed or footwork to keep Tyson away or the skill or technique to keep him off. And saying that Rocky was tough… well,, tough can get you killed in the ring against a super power puncher with superior skills. This fight wouldn't last 2 rounds with a prime Tyson. And a non-prime Tyson would still be heavier and stronger. Rocky never faced anyone of merit who was near their prime. You wouldn't want Tyson to be your first. Bigger, faster, stronger. With malicious intent. No way Rocky would beat a prime Iron Mike. Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Zhang weighs 287. Fury 277. Ngannou 272. Makhmudov 260. Briggs 265. Ruiz 265. Grant 265. Foreman 260. Lennox 250. Vitali 250. Peter 250. Joshua 250. *Marciano 184 with 67" flyweight reach.* The average Heavyweight today weighs 250 with 80" albatross reach! *I know, i know Rocky fans still believe he could beat every Heavyweight that ever existed bcz he was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , bcz when he walked the earth shook.* Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67" (1.70 meters) incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison, today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7". And all the PEDs in the world ain't gonna help little dwarfism-arms grow longer. *I'm not being disrespectful, only realistic. Rocky was fantastic against light heavyweights but it would have been entirely different against topnotch Super Heavyweights.* Important. Willard/Carnera were also big but circus clowns! Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Little Rocky's conditioning is another manufactured fallacy and 235 lb Ibeabuchi vs. 225 lb Tua proved it when they threw a record breaking 1,730 haymakers in only 12Rounds. Ibeabuchi and/or Tua smashes little midget man in only seconds!!! The way Rocky fans go on and on about how he's the best conditioned and most powerful fighter that ever lived is an embarrassment to boxing. Give me a break. Only 184 lbs with flyweight reach, what a Joke. *When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs. Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's.* This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two Super Heavyweight warriors stood toe to toe exhibiting exceptional heart and endurance. Both boxers threw bombs and neither took a backward step. After the fight Ibeabuchi complained of a headache and was taken to a hospital. He underwent several tests including an MRI scan but nothing abnormal was found and was immediately released. A week after the fight Tua had surgery to remove bone chips from his left elbow. And Ike's in🎃sanity had nothing to do with anything he injested lik-roids, he was too paranoid of medications to take anything illegal. Ike was an anomaly, one in a million. No heavyweight of his generation possessed more ability. He was a prodigy. He had amazing power. He had fierce determination and he had no fear of anybody, and he believed that he was the King, that nobody could beat him. He’d walk into the ring and you would almost have this vision of a bull coming at a matador with the steam coming out of the nostrils. Unfortunately, here was a very scary man both in and out of the ring. And it’s unfortunate that we’ll never know what could have been. Bob Arum: "I don’t know, but it was the Heavyweight division and people love a puncher, and while he probably couldn’t have made what Mike Tyson made, but he would have been damn close. You know, hundreds of millions of dollars, sure. But again, again, that’s life, that’s life. You have to be a person, you have to be sane, you have to comport yourself with some kind of dignity and some kind of grace in order to realize that type of reward, and he couldn’t do it." 21 months later, 245lb Ibeabuchi confirmed that he was indeed the best up-and-coming heavyweight on the planet by knocking out undefeated 26-0 quick and slick southpaw Chris Byrd. Ibeabuchi was 20-0 with 15 knockouts, only 26 years old .. and he never fought again. Byrd: "I got a little arrogant, thinking I’m unhittable. Cause I just thought, Oh man, he can’t hit me! I’m gonna slip everything. And, boom, just got caught. When I got knocked down the first time, I got, literally, the canvas woke me up. I was asleep before I hit the ground, and when I hit the canvas it woke me up. I asked the referee why he stopped the fight? What are you doing? "The bell rung!" But my bell was still ringing, that’s what was ringing, was my bell." 245lb Ike Ibeabuchi would have been the heir to Lennox Lewis throne. The Klitschko's would have been gate keepers if he was around. Ike was a Super Heavyweight with serious power, great speed, chin of iron, a boxer and a brawler, freakish stamina, threw punches in bunches and had a ridiculous work-rate with KO written all over his punches. *Little 184lb-cruiser Rocky Marciano gets flattened by the 245lb prodigy Ike Ibeabuchi 10 out of 10 times and that's not debatable!*
There's no shame for a man to cry. We men are full of emotions, it's called being human, I'm having a cry now thinking of the old boxing greats that stood up and fought for a living so they could pay the rent and put food on the table, and this music is sad. Tough men with big hearts. Just the best.
I really appreciate you for this, whoever you are. My father taught me growing up that crying doesn’t make you less of a man, but it takes a real man to be able to cry and not feel ashamed. A real man doesn’t give a shit what anyone thinks about him, as long as he’s trying to be the best person he can. The world could truly benefit if more people shared our perspective, and I try to show my honest appreciation whenever I see it.
*By way of comparison bantamweight phenom Naoya Inoue has 67 ½″ reach, longer than Rocky's 67" reach. Inoue is 5' 5", Rocky 5' 9". Rocky fans continuously try to debate me. What's there to debate? How to make little Rocky Bigger?*
*Fury is a titan amongst mere mortals. A focused Fury is boxing evolved to it's highest state ever.* Transport Fury back to little Rocky's little era and he woulda had 149 wins 0 losses with 100% KO's!!! *Seriously though, if Rocky fought Fury he would need the use of a stepladder or Fury could fight on his knees.*
Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. The last undisputed Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history. Lennox avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his losses, he said, *"It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style,"* and *"Show me a Heavyweight champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."* In my opinion Lennox Lewis is the GOAT. To hear 58 year old Lennox talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable. The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: *Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant and WBC International HW champion David Tua* [[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]] *Other notable mentions; Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson* How many prime topnotch genuine 200+lbs Heavyweight and 224+lbs Super Heavyweight Champions did little 184 lb Rocky fight? Imagine little Rocky trying to fight topnotch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 86" albatross wingspans and 30 to 100 lb weight advantages? I'm sorry Heavyweight was only 175 lbs back then bcz it sure as hell ain't today. It's no wonder Emanuel Steward, an American boxer, trainer, and proven boxing Genius who trained 41 world champion fighters throughout his career said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight *If size don't matter why hasn't there been another 184 lb Heavyweight champion since Little Rocky's Little era 4 generations ago?*
doesn’t matter the era, to be the best man out of all the men competing is a remarkable feat. tough bastards made of metal back then, too. the fact that he’s small made it all that much more impressive
William Dettloff's biography of Ezzard Charles explains how *Ezzard was ducked by champions in both the Middleweight and Light heavyweight divisions. As a result, he fought in the Heavyweight division despite never being a true Heavyweight.* In 1937, at 16, Charles began boxing as an amateur. He soon won the 1937 Ohio AAU Welterweight championship, in 1938, he again won the state AAU amateur title as a Welterweight, and in 1939 he won the Ohio state Middleweight championship, and then the National Amateur Middleweight crown. In 1940 he turned pro as a 147 to 160 lb Middleweight, and by 1941 Charles had risen, by age 19, to be the number two contender for the world Middleweight title. But William Dettloff documents how *Charles was told bluntly that Tony Zale would never give him a title shot.* So Charles, a natural 147 to 160 lb Middleweight, was *"FORCED"* into the 160 to 175 lb Light heavyweight division. As a Light heavyweight, he defeated Moore not once, not twice, but three times - and *Gus Lesnevich, the Light Heavyweight champion refused to give him a title shot.* So Charles was *"FORCED"* into the 175+lbs Heavyweight division. Low-power 182 lb Charles lost the title to Walcott by a seventh-round knockout in 1951. Ailing Charles tried to regain the Heavyweight Championship three times, losing once to Walcott in 1952 and twice to Marciano in 1954. *Charles, who, from 1951 on, was suffering from the symptoms of ALS. Charles was a spent force by that time.* - Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life by William Dettloff *“The Heavyweight version of Charles,”* Dettloff sums up, *“would get a lot of good work done. But on the best day of his life, he was no more a Heavyweight than Ray Robinson. He never would be as good there as he was at Light heavy and below.”* - Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life by William Dettloff *Post World War II for the next 15 years or so boxing was controlled by Mafia guys Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo. Both Walcott and Charles had mobbed managers, Walcott one Nick Bocchicchio and Charles a pair named Tom Tennas and Jacob Mintz. You did as they told you and you got the matches that you needed to advance into contender ranks.* - Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life by William Dettloff
Muhammad Ali, "Umm Marciano... Marciano, umm, phew, ooh he hit hard. He hit you so hard *unrecognizable* folks in Africa." Cosell, "But you think you could have beaten him too?" Ali, "Well it a been rough, look Howard, I don't take nothing from these fellas especially those deceased. Marciano and I were good friends, but I truly think on my best day and his best day I would have beaten him, probably not knocked him out, I been sore, I think he was better than Joe Frazier I'd put it that way. I truly think he was better than Joe Frazier. I think it be even, he may have won - it's just hard, it's just up to the imagination. Cosell, " You know you started out with so much braggadocio, now you're ending with humility." Ali, "Yea, you got the last man Marciano. Showing him last, you did the right thing. He wasn't as great as me, wasn't as beautiful everyone knows that. But I don't know if I would have beat him with his style and my style. He could've out-pointed me, could've knocked me down. Did a computer fight with him when he was an old man just pretending and my arms were so sore just for joking with him. In his heyday he may have won, he probably wouldn't... that's up for the imagination. In the end I still think I'm the greatest of all time!" Later, in part 6 Ali flips a script saying that *"a prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano."* He then goes on to his usual *"I'm the greatest"* after part 6. ((( *Why was the most important part removed?? Ali said, "a prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano"!!!* ))) ABC'S WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS {MUHAMMAD ALI VERSUS THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME; DAYTONA 500} Summary: This edition concludes the segment "Muhammad Ali versus the Greatest Heavyweight Champions of All Time" in which Howard Cosell and Muhammad Ali discuss the careers of great boxers. In this final portion, Cosell, with world heavyweight champion Ali at Ali's Deer Lake, Pa., training camp, discusses fight films involving these fighters: Joe Louis, Max Schmeling, Billy Conn, Ezzard Charles, Pat Valentino, and Jersey Joe Walcott. Dave Diles reports with a sports news update on the final lap of the Daytona 500 automobile race as Bill Flemming narrates the tape of the finish. Ali and Cosell resume their discussion of fight films involving the following fighters: Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, and Rocky Marciano. ABC February 15, 1976 Sunday 8 ½ hrs. ((( *Dave Diles explains the entire 8 ½ hrs. coverage @ 1976 Daytona 500 - ABC Wide World of Sports coverage from NascarAllOut* ))) ((( Moral of the story is so much of what Ali actually said about Rocky has been removed!!! *This valuable information has been suppressed for 48 years!!!* Imagine all the uploaders that have been entering incorrect information for decades!!! The honest truth is Rocky uploaders removed 3 hours 28 minutes because it didn't align with their agenda!!! *The Fact is Ali Hated Marciano!!!* Why not just use Rocky's resume to defend him instead of hiding vital information? *Well because Rocky's resume is Horseshirt, that's why!!!* Y'all can order copies *@ Archival Television Audio Inc.* just type in Muhammad Ali. 9889 is 90 MIN, 9889A is 30 MIN and 9890 is 90 MIN. That's 3 1/2 hours of Ali discussing Marciano Walcott Charles Moore Louis Conn.. *"A prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano." - Muhammad Ali, February 15 1976* )))
Most people openly admit that the versions of Charles, Moore and Walcott that he fought were far from prime (The Joe Louis and Lee Savold fights really doesn't even deserve to be brought up). So it isn't the quality of Rocky's competition that his reputation is based on among the greats, it is that famous record 49-0. If Rocky's 49-0 record is the basis of his greatness then the fighters on that record should be the very best that were available. But by my reckoning that is the furthest thing from the truth. Infact when you look at the highest ranked fighters of the era, and then you look at his record, it's scandalous how many he didn't fight. Many of the ones he DID choose to fight are just as scandalous. Top fighters Marciano definitely should have fought that he didn't. *1)* Harold Johnson *2)* Oakland Billy Smith *3)* Yolande Pompey *4)* Curtis Hatchetman Sheppherd *5)* Clarence Henry *6)* Joey Maxim *7)* Marty Marshall *8)* Bob Satterfield *9)* Jimmy Bivins *10)* Lloyd Marshall *11)* Nino Valdes Those are just the definites, we could add many other names (like Tommy Jackson, Dan Bucceroni or even Bob Baker) that while not as good, are definitely better than some of the guys he DID fight that make up that "legendary" record. Guys like these; Lee Epperson (Career Record 0-1) Jimmy Weeks (Career Record 0-1) Gilbert Cardone (Career Record 0-3) John Edwards (Career Record 1-2) Bill Hardeman (Career Record 1-7) Humphrey Jackson (Career Record 4-3) Johnnie Pretzie (Career Record 10-14) Bob Jefferson (Career Record 3-10) Gilley Ferron (Career Record 4-13) Tommy DiGiorgio (Career Record 9-15) Artie Donato (Career Record 7-13) Harry Haft (Career Record 12-7) James Connoly (Career Record 12-9) Harry Bilazarian (Career Record 15-12) Joe Dominic (Career Record 18-12) Don Mogard (Career Record 20-16) Jimmy Walls (Career Record 21-41) Eldridge Eatman (Career Record 22-21) according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* Not only did Eldridge take a-dive vs. Rocky but he had just lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Why would a 26-0 boxer fight an F-LEVEL diver who had just lost 8 fights? It's clear as day Mafia Boss Carbo and underboss Al Weill cherry picked and padded Rocky's resume! Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 9 wins 22 losses. Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 7 wins 16 losses. *(Harold had just lost 10 fights in a row before diving against Rocky)* Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 18 wins 29 losses. Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 12 wins 16 losses. Immediately *((same day))* after 170-lb diver Eddie Ross was supposedly KO'd by Marciano he drove from Rhode Island Providence to Quebec City Quebec -- 8 hr 15 min 465.9 mi via I-93 N inorder to fight 160-lb Billy Sparks.. ( *"Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day."* --BoxRec and Providence Journal ) Inspect Eddie's resume, it's hilarious! None of these guys beat anyone of note! Many of these guys he even fought pretty far into his career when there were obviously alternatives. In light of this should this 49-0 record be as revered as it is to some?
*Joe Louis said how he would fight Ali Feb.1967 Ring mag, "The kid has speed and there’s no one around to outbox him, and the opponent who tries is in his grave, especially in the middle of the ring. I’d see to it that Clay didn’t stay in ring center. No. He’d be hit into those ropes as near a corner as I could get him. If he stayed on the ropes he would get hurt. Sooner or later he’d try to bounce off, when he did he would get hurt more. I’d press him, cut down his speed, and bang him around the ribs. I’d punish the body. “Kill the body and the head will die”, Chappie use to tell me. It figures. Sooner or later he’d forget about that face of his and he would start dropping that left hand like he did against Mildenberger and Chuvalo. Those fellows got their openings by accident, and fouled it up. I would work for it and wouldn’t reckon to miss when it arrived. Cassius Clay is a nice boy and a smart fighter. But I am sure i would have licked him."*
Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was a great champion in his own era and a credit to the sport of boxing, however he boxed in a weak post war drained era where boxers from yesteryear ruled the roost. Since then, there has been so many other topnotch genuine authentic 220 to 290lb Heavyweights similar to: Zhang Fury Lewis Bowe Vitali Ibeabuchi Parker Anderson Hrgovic Sanchez Ruiz Joyce Whyte Holmes Ali Foreman Ruddock Witherspoon Grant Bruno Liston Tyson Tua Usyk Wladimir Ruiz Ortiz Dokes Lyle Thomas Weaver Briggs Morrison Cooney Wilder Joshua Usyk *I could "easily" list another Thirty!!!*
Marciano handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone who could pose much of a threat after coming so close to tasting defeat vs. LaStarza. So his next opponent was *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman who had lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Everybody knew it was a gimme fight for an undefeated fighter. Then there was *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry who had a career 71 wins 68 losses. Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 8 wins 8 losses. Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 4 wins 17 losses. Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 13 wins 14 losses. Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 11 wins 14 losses. *It's clear as day Mafia Boss Frankie Carbo & associate Al Weill padded and cherry-picked Marciano's resume his entire (but very short) career.* Lewis Watson, boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition saying: “Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition." *Who did little 184lb-cruiser Rocky fight? He fought nobody notable until Journeyman Walcott who was at least 40 if not older. Walcott never had a birth certificate, he created one in his mid 20s. It's all in his biography, Chapter 9 page 71. Then there was light heavyweight Charles who had symptoms of Lou Gehrig's disease in 1951. It's all in his biography by William Dettloff. Rocky quickly finished his very short career against light heavyweight Archie Moore who was at least 42 if not older. Some "Heavyweight" resume, sad.*
Every champ fights their fare share of tomato cans. But nobody, and i mean nobody, fought as many F-LEVEL tomato can bums as Marciano did. It's no joke, do the research. Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
178 to 188 lb tiny cruiser Marciano's opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire-CAREER record, not a partial record.* Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Pro boxers can easily be evaluated using grades *A, B, C, D, F* which has been used for decades: Lee Epperson career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone career record 0 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL* John Edwards career record 1 win 2 losses *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman career record 1 win 7 losses *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson career record 4 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft career record 12 wins 7 losses *F-LEVEL* James Connolly career record 12 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian career record 15 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson career record 3 wins 10 losses *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell career record 7 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron career record 4 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato career record 7 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie career record 10 wins 14 losses *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis career record 32 wins 14 losses *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons career record 9 wins 22 losses *F-LEVEL* Art Henri career record 18 wins 29 losses *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls career record 21 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry career record 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino career record 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic career record 18 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman career record 22 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate career record 12 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold career record 104 wins 45 losses *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato career record 56 wins 23 losses *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson career record 56 wins 27 losses *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor career record 31 wins 19 losses *D-LEVEL* Fred Beshore career record 35 wins 17 losses *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans 18 wins 8 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross 19 wins 5 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn 20 wins 4 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds 53 wins 13 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards 24 wins 9 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo 16 wins 2 losses looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell 66 wins 14 losses looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews 90 wins 7 losses is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight?* Roland LaStarza *C-LEVEL.* LaStarza Refused fights with Charles, Moore, Walcott, Louis, Valdez, Satterfield, Bivins, Maxim, Henry, Baker, Johnson, Pompey, Marshall, Smith, Sheppard etc. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much! Rex Layne *C-LEVEL.* LaStarza vs. Layne reminds me of watching two midwest club fighters fighting a 4 rounder on an old ESPN card from Muncie, In. Two guys who were not well schooled, standing in front of each other acting like they were insulted if the other guy missed them with a punch. A lot of right hand leads, a lot of jabs with the rear foot leaving the canvas, little/no counter punching, just two guys willing to get hit but showing little boxing skill. Look how bad Rex Layne swings and misses. What an oaf. Joe Walcott *C-LEVEL.* Walcott's losses is what elevated his status and built up his credentials, not his wins!!! The fact that Walcott was granted (6) title attempts in a (5) year span speaks volumes about how weak the Heavyweight division was at this time!!! And (4) of these title opportunities came immediately after a Walcott loss!!! Archie Moore *A-LEVEL* MW/LH and *C-LEVEL* HW. Heck, Low Power 171/173 lb Charles beat him 3 times, 182 lb Patterson obliterated him, and 188 lb tiny cruiser Marciano smashed him. Every time Moore Stepped-Up in competition he got KO'D. Ezzard Charles *A-LEVEL* LH and *C-LEVEL* HW. William Dettloff’s biography *'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'* documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, as early as 1951. This was 3 years before the Marciano fights, and it was also the same year he lost his title. Ezzard, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. Bert Sugar said, *"His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50's, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* --@ 35:01 ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano There it is. Y'all are intelligent enough to make your own judgement about Rocky's *F-LEVEL* resume. Who did he fight? Walcott was 38/39 if not older, Moore 41, Charles had ALS and Louis was washed. To continue claiming he was the Greatest or even top 10 Greatest Heavyweight is absurd. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight *"Name one, just one 'Prime' all time great boxer Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore Louis was 'Prime' when they fought him?"*
Louis bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky only *7* years Walcott bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Charles bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Moore bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years Savold bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky only *7* years Matthews bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky only *7* years LaStarza bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky only *7* years Cockell bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Lowry bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years 1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)* 1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)* 2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1 3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1 4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)* 1947 5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1 6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)* *1947-03-17 PROFESSIONAL Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, and March in 1948.* 1948 *(Rocky goes back to the amateurs)* 7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1 8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3 9. February George McInnis TKO-1 10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)* 11. March Fred Fischera KO 12. March George McGinnis W-3 *1948-07-12 (Rocky goes back to pro) Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano.. Don Cuoco and Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson because once Pro you cannot go back to the amateurs.* Louis fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky quit at *49* Walcott fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Charles fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49* Moore fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Savold fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Matthews fought *(103)* times...little Rocky quit at *49* LaStarza fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49* Cockell fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49* Lowry fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49* Layne fought *(70)* times............little Rocky quit at *49* Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times Layne Lost *(17)* times and was KO'd *(6)* times *Shocking isn't it? We never see these stats bcz they're always suppressed. Today's Genuine Super Heavyweights Miller Zhang Bakole Joshua Fury Ruiz Parker Kabayel Itauma Jalolov Dubois only have a combined (15) losses yet they're already being thrown under the bus for eternity but it's perfectly fine for little Rocky's little opponents to have a combined ((753)) losses!!!* *HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:* Lewis --------- *2* Holmes ------ *6* Ali -------------- *5* Vitali ----------- *2* Foreman ---- *5* Tyson -------- *6* Wladimir ---- *5* Bowe --------- *1* Liston -------- *4* Louis --------- *3* Holyfield -- *10* Frazier ------- *4* Norton ------- *7* Tunney ------ *1* Dempsey --- *6* Johnson --- *11* *"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- Lennox Lewis
Combined Walcott Charles Moore Louis already had *((409))* fights (Louis 68, Walcott 68, Charles 95, Moore 178) before facing Rocky. Those 4 Hall of Famers had already been fighting pro for a combined *((74))* years (Louis 17, Walcott 22, Charles 15, Moore 20) before they faced Rocky. Imagine all the dozens of wars aka trauma those four had already experienced. Add the 96 exhibition fights Louis had during his 4 year military service and that makes *((505))* fights not to mention Walcott and Louis came back after retiring for a combined *((6½))* years. Mathematically and scientifically those four were already ring worn and washed. As a matter of Fact all of Rocky's opponents combined lost an astonishing *((753))* times!!! Worst resume in boxing history!
Absolutely hilarious😆Who makes a commitment to defend little Rocky's honor 24/7 for their entire life? Gregory Rochette from Bevo Mill St Louis that's who. Get a life for Pete's sake smh.
1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)* 1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)* 2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1 3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1 4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)* 1947 5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1 6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)* *1947-03-17 Professional Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, March 1948.* 1948 *(Rocky's back to amateur bouts)* 7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1 8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3 9. February George McInnis TKO-1 10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)* 11. March Fred Fischera KO 12. March George McGinnis W-3 *1948-07-12 Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano. Don Cuoco & Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson bcz once Professional you cannot go back to the amateurs.* Louis Bravely fought *(17)* years...........Rocky only *(7)* years Walcott Bravely fought *(23)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years Charles Bravely fought *(20)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years Moore Bravely fought *(27)* years.........Rocky only *(7)* years Savold Bravely fought *(19)* years........Rocky only *(7)* years Matthews Bravely fought *(19)* years...Rocky only *(7)* years LaStarza Bravely fought *(14)* years.....Rocky only *(7)* years Cockell Bravely fought *(10)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years Lowry Bravely fought *(16)* years.........Rocky only *(7)* years
Ali put Rocky in the hospital for an entire week after their choreographed sparing match. *"Rocky entered the hospital for dehydration, torn bicep and exhaustion."* - Peter Marciano ... I've seen the Getty images and Rocky looked terrible! He was only 45, wearing a wig, had zero muscle tone and fat was hanging everywhere! That's not all. Y'all can clearly see Ali was at least 6" taller! Don't believe for a second that Rocky was 5' 10". Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters) according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67 inches (1.70 meters)--incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7". There is no question that little Rocky was superbly conditioned by the standards of the day; however, at his average fighting weight of 183 lbs/83 kg, between 178 and 188, he was not incredibly lean and he was not dehydrated; he was, in other words, a natural light heavyweight. He only weighed 170 when he boxed for the military. Frazier was a genuine 205 lb Heavyweight. Marciano was a genuine 184 lb tiny Cruiserweight. Usyk weighs 223 not 184. Zhang and Bakole weigh 285 not 184. Miller weighs 305 not 184. Weight matters and numbers don't lie!
Rocky Marciano was a destroyer of fighters. He overwhelmed his opponents with non-stop aggression and incredible punching power. Most fighters that stepped into the ring with Rocky were ruined or retired. Probably the most destructive fighting force under 190. Archie Moore was 39, and on a 21 fight win streak, the longest of his career, all against younger opposition. He was prime. Joe Walcott was 38 and the Heavyweight Champion. He was also prime. Charles was 33, a year and a half older, and prime. Louis was 37, but had just won 8 straight. Rocky only had four years under his belt when he faced Joe Louis. Rocky had great wins over great fighters and champions.
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
I take you never boxed before, 33+ is not prime. All those champions had alot more miles on them. Way more amateur and pro fights. Rocky only had a 8 to 9 year career. In my opinion he loses to Moore, Walcott and Louis if any was under 33.
@@Robert.Levi.Millerwell put together. It doesnt really add up untill you look at the whole picture. Marciano was very limited technically speaking. his legend grew by engaging in bloody, entertaining, battles with no longer great fighters and is rightfully considered in the lower tier of the top 10 heavywights of all time
@@michaelmcginn3136 I can easily see him being lower tier of the top 20 Super Heavyweights in another 2 or 3 generations. It's inevitable. Don't get me wrong he was a great warrior but today's Super Heavyweights average 250 lbs with 80" reach. Little Rocky only weighed 178 179 180 181 & 182 for most of his fights.
37yr old Joe Louis had already been fighting *"17yrs"* with 68 fights and 96 fights before 2 million soldiers during his 4 year military service before facing the 184 lb light heavyweight. *Joe’s speed and punching power had all but evaporated, evidenced by him scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights.* Louis was a sitting duck. By contrast, Marciano was just entering his prime. 40yr old cruiser Walcott had already been fighting *"22yrs"* with 68 fights before facing the light heavyweight. Walcott had an abysmal 44% KO's. Walcott being granted *(6)* title attempts in a *(5½)* year span (1947-12-05 to 1953-05-15) proves how shallow the so-called "Heavyweight" division was at that time. *And (5) of his title opportunities came immediately after a loss!!!* This is important. *Giant Abe Simon put Walcott into retirement for 4 years 4 months, from 1940-02-12 to 1944-06-07. It's virtually impossible that Walcott was even remotely prime when he fought the 184 lb light heavyweight Marciano. Rocky himself said Walcott was only 90% of himself @ 'The Marciano Tapes' #3.* Walcott's most notable victories include wins over LH Charles, LH Maxim and LH Johnson. LH Charles lost *(25)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times. LH Maxim lost *(29)* times. LH Johnson lost *(11)* times and was KO'd *(5)* times. C-LEVEL Journeyman Joe lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end. *Walcott lost (20) times and was KO'd (6) times.* Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles had already been fighting *"15yrs"* with 95 fights before facing the light heavyweight. Charles had the lowest ever 42% KO's. *Charles was factually showing traces of Lou Gehrig's disease against Walcott in 1951.* It's in Ezzard's biography 'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life' by William Dettloff. *Charles lost (25) times and was KO'd (7) times.* 42yr old light heavyweight Archie Moore had already been fighting *"20yrs"* with 178 fights before facing the light heavyweight. Archie said, *"Rocky Marciano was about 15 years younger than I was."* --@ Archie Moore Talks 2007TBears Wouldn't that put grandfather Archie in his mid 40's? *Moore Lost (23) times and was KO'd (7) times.* 179 lb light heavyweight Rocky Marciano only fought *"8yrs"* before he abruptly quit during his prime at only 31yrs of age. If you eliminate his secretive debut fight under the alias Rocky Mackjeanne, he actually fought *"7yrs"* bcz there was a 15 month gap between his 1st and 2nd fights. Read Mike Stanton to understand Rocky Mackjeanne vs. Les Epperson in Holyoke. Rocky Mackjeanne was shortened to Rocky Mack just before the fight. *You have to respect every competitor for stepping into the ring but after studying all of his opponents, and who they fought, my gut instinct also says light heavyweight Rocky Marciano is one of the biggest frauds in "Heavyweight" boxing history.*
Most people openly admit that the versions of Charles, Moore and Walcott that he fought were far from prime (The Joe Louis and Lee Savold fights really doesn't even deserve to be brought up). So it isn't the quality of Rocky's competition that his reputation is based on among the greats, it is that famous record 49-0. If Rocky's 49-0 record is the basis of his greatness then the fighters on that record should be the very best that were available. But by my reckoning that is the furthest thing from the truth. Infact when you look at the highest ranked fighters of the era, and then you look at his record, it's scandalous how many he didn't fight. Many of the ones he DID choose to fight are just as scandalous. Top fighters Marciano definitely should have fought that he didn't. *1)* Harold Johnson *2)* Oakland Billy Smith *3)* Yolande Pompey *4)* Curtis Hatchetman Sheppherd *5)* Clarence Henry *6)* Joey Maxim *7)* Marty Marshall *8)* Bob Satterfield *9)* Jimmy Bivins *10)* Lloyd Marshall *11)* Nino Valdes Those are just the definites, we could add many other names (like Tommy Jackson, Dan Bucceroni or even Bob Baker) that while not as good, are definitely better than some of the guys he DID fight that make up that "legendary" record. Guys like these; Lee Epperson (Career Record 0-1) Jimmy Weeks (Career Record 0-1) Gilbert Cardone (Career Record 0-3) John Edwards (Career Record 1-2) Bill Hardeman (Career Record 1-7) Humphrey Jackson (Career Record 4-3) Johnnie Pretzie (Career Record 10-14) Bob Jefferson (Career Record 3-10) Gilley Ferron (Career Record 4-13) Tommy DiGiorgio (Career Record 9-15) Artie Donato (Career Record 7-13) Harry Haft (Career Record 12-7) James Connoly (Career Record 12-9) Harry Bilazarian (Career Record 15-12) Joe Dominic (Career Record 18-12) Don Mogard (Career Record 20-16) Jimmy Walls (Career Record 21-41) Eldridge Eatman (Career Record 22-21) according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* Not only did Eldridge take a-dive vs. Rocky but he had just lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Why would a 26-0 boxer fight an F-LEVEL diver who had just lost 8 fights? It's clear as day Mafia Boss Carbo and underboss Al Weill cherry picked and padded Rocky's resume! Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 9 wins 22 losses. Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 7 wins 16 losses. *(Harold had just lost 10 fights in a row before diving against Rocky)* Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 18 wins 29 losses. Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 12 wins 16 losses. Immediately *((same day))* after 170-lb diver Eddie Ross was supposedly KO'd by Marciano he drove from Rhode Island Providence to Quebec City Quebec -- 8 hr 15 min 465.9 mi via I-93 N inorder to fight 160-lb Billy Sparks.. ( *"Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day."* --BoxRec and Providence Journal ) Inspect Eddie's resume, it's hilarious! None of these guys beat anyone of note! Many of these guys he even fought pretty far into his career when there were obviously alternatives. In light of this should this 49-0 record be as revered as it is to some?
5' 9" 184 lb Rocky's legacy is predominantly built around his endurance and punches thrown per round. *To claim his endurance and punching prowess was better than everyone else's is utter nonsense.* Super Heavyweights Ibeabuchi and Tua threw a record breaking 1,730 punches! *"6' 6" 285 lb Bakole holds the #2 and #3 spot in terms of most total punches thrown by a Heavyweight in a single round, he's thrown 147 in one round before."* -( @1:20 Combat : Bakole vs Jared from CLIMAT RDC TV ) It's incredible the way so many Rocky fans try to turn him into something that he was not. I've read hundreds of fabricated story's. *The best one being his punch was equivalent to a 44 magnum bullet. If that were true why didn't he kill all of his opponents? Everyone on planet earth can clearly see Rocky's punching power is overrated. He hits his opponents hundreds of times with little to no effect.* Many of his opponents were fighting again the next day (Ross) or only one month later. Walcott Charles Moore Layne Matthews etc were all back in training one week later.
Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. The last undisputed Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history. Lennox avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his losses, he said, *"It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style,"* and *"Show me a Heavyweight champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."* In my opinion 59 year old Lennox Lewis is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable. The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: *Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant and WBC International HW champion David Tua* [[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]] *Other notable mentions; Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson* How many prime topnotch genuine 200+lbs Heavyweight and 224+lbs Super Heavyweight Champions did little 184 lb Rocky fight? Imagine little Rocky trying to fight topnotch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 86" albatross wingspans and 30 to 100 lb weight advantages? I'm sorry Heavyweight was only 175 back then bcz it sure as hell ain't today. It's no wonder Emanuel Steward, an American boxer, trainer, and proven boxing Genius who trained 41 world champion fighters throughout his career said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight It's amazing the way Rocky fans belittle Lennox for losing twice yet they always fail to mention the *((753))* losses Rocky's opponents had? Why is that? For Pete's sake *((753))* losses is astronomical. Why so many? *"In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results-The real stumble-bums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time boxing, the less-talented fighter often gets most of the cash. He is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably and helping other fighters pad their records."* --The Ring Magazine by Andy Bowers
Rocky was not just a great champion but he came across as a stand up guy out the ring. Ring legend. Joe Louis back then was a national hero the heavyweight champion everyone knew and the great boxers admired him.
@@GrubKiller436 We overestimate legends, we like to put them on a high level in every sport. That's the magic of sport. If you take these legends and put them in the context of today's reality, I'm not sure they'd perform as well. But in our heart they are the best of the best
@@Keboomrang No, when we talk about greatness, we talk about what someone did for their time. These people more often than not paved the way for the next generations.
*A couple weeks before the bout Joe Louis was ordered to visit the white house where Franklin D. Roosevelt told him, "Joe, we need your muscles to beat Germany." Louis later admitted, "I knew i had to get Schmeling good. I had my own personal reasons and the whole damned country was depending on me."* *June 22, 1938 with 71,000 people in Yankee Stadium Joe Louis met Max Schmeling and millions of folks around the world was listening by radio in English, German, Spanish and Portuguese. Here in America factories, businesses, families, everyone huddled around radios, all of America stopped for a moment.* *Schmeling managed to throw only two punches entire fight. Joe landed blows to his head and body that could knock down a brick wall. Max screamed when Joe literally broke his back. With the world on the precipice of WWII, Louis hammered Hitler's symbol of Aryan supremacy with his 1938 destruction of Germany's Max Schmeling. It is considered among the most important moments in sports history.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat: #1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record. #2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why! #3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed. #4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol. #5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.* #7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad. *Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.* Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents. *In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
If little Rocky was *all-Powerful* why didn't he ever break any bones? *He never broke one rib, one nose, one eye-socket, one jaw or detached one retina.* He catches lightning in a bottle ONE time vs. Walcott and his fans automatically assume he's the most powerful puncher that ever lived. *Rocky's entire legacy has been built around that ONE KO!!!* Only reason Marciano's KO against Walcott was so great is bcz he caught Jersey Joe precisely on the point of his chin which snap-twisted his head around more than 90° cutting oxygen off instantaneously (one in a thousand shot). Prior to Walcott being KO'd little Rocky was being dominated by the past his prime 40yr old. Walcott was ahead on all scorecards 8-4, 7-5 and 7-4 by referee Charley Daggert. Besides that *ONE* lucky punch what other great KO's did he have? And don't mention Carmine Vingo as that story has been debunked by Rocky himself and his manager Al Weill. They both said, *"Carmine did not go unconscious until he hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring with no padding."*
*Due to Joe Louis not having the punch to bother Marciano, Joe was never in the fight. Louis was devoid of everything in his offensive arsenal. Joe’s speed and power were just a memory. His accuracy and timing were long gone and his reflexes were no longer instinctive. Joe had nothing left to neutralize Rocky. Louis was a sitting duck. By contrast, Marciano was just entering his prime.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat: #1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record. #2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why! #3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed. #4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol. #5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.* #7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad. *Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.* Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents. *In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Joe only had limited use of his right hand but it wasn't the Rock's fault. It's testament to big Joe's popularity that he remained great mates with Rocky, Max Schmeling, Tommy Farr, Billy Conn and Ezzard Charles among others. Personally I think a peak Joe Louis at 205lbs would stop the Rock
*"The Heavyweight version of Charles,”* Dettloff sums up, *“would get a lot of good work done. But on the best day of his life, he was no more a Heavyweight than Ray Robinson. He never would be as good there as he was at light heavy and below.”* -- written by William Dettloff author of "Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life" 2015 *"Ezzard was intentionally ducked by champions in both the middleweight and light heavyweight divisions. As a result, Charles was forced into the 175 lb Heavyweight division despite never being a true Heavyweight."* -- written by William Dettloff author of "Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life" 2015 Rocky fans always talk about Charles being only 33 when he fought Rocky but what they always fail to mention is that Charles was the #2 ranked middleweight in the world when he was only 19 years old. Charles had already been through numerous wars (trauma) throughout the entire 1940s. Charles fought Moore 3 times, Bivins 4 times, Maxim 5 times etcetera etc. Low-power Charles with the lowest ever 42% KOs already had 95 fights and was ring-worn by the time he faced Rocky. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Rocky had those 95 fights? 41 year old middleweight/light heavyweight Moore already had 178 fights by the time he faced Rocky. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Rocky was 41 with 178 fights? *Per family request Moore's birthdate was recently changed at Wikipedia to 1913. Moore was factual 41 when he fought Rocky!* Charles and Moore didn't even need to fight Rocky!!! They still would have entered the Hall of Fame for what they already accomplished in the middleweight and light heavyweight divisions!!! Moore fought in the middleweight division for 9 years!!! *Numbers do not lie and the numbers Prove that Rocky's era was the smallest and weakest Heavyweight division in boxing history!!!* Rocky was just lucky. Didn't fight anyone worth a damn. Then he quit after a mere 7 years when everyone else fought 15 to 25 years. *5' 9" 184 lbs with flyweight reach. Give me a break.* In today's Super Heavyweight world Rocky's 49-0 is meaningless! *"Charles lost the title to Walcott in 1951. Ailing Charles tried to regain the Heavyweight title three times, losing once to Walcott in 1952 and twice to Marciano in 1954. Charles a spent force by that time, who, from 1951 on was suffering from the symptoms of ALS."* -- written by William Dettloff author of "Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life" 2015 William Dettloff’s biography *'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'* documents that Charles first felt weakness and some numbness in his limbs as early as 1951. This was 3 years before the Marciano fights and it was also the same year he lost his title. Ezzard, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. Bert Sugar said, *"His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50's, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* --@ 35:01 ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano
Humble, polite and decent inside and outside the ring. Some sports people past and present could take a leaf out of his book. No steroids, just pure art of determination. When Joe Louis was sick in hospital and couldn't pay his bills Marciano quietly paid for it.
Emanuel Steward was an American boxer, trainer and proven boxing Genius who trained 41 world champion fighters throughout his career. What did Emanuel have to say about Marciano? He said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight
*If size don't matter why hasn't there been another 184 lb Heavyweight champion since Little Rocky's Little era 4 generations ago?* *"'BECAUSE SIZE DOES MATTER, LIKE IT OR NOT"'!!!*
*6' 3" 223 lb 78" reach genuine Heavyweight Usyk vs. little 5' 9" 184 lb 67" tiny reach Rocky. Usyk master boxer, little Rocky face first slugger. Who wins? Little Rocky vs. Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lennox, Ibeabuchi, Vitali, Joshua, Parker, Kabayel, Zhang and Bakole,, who wins?*
@bobbyd5276 at that time and at that era he was a champion. Today he'd probably be like everyone else roided to the gills and probably a champion still.maybe a few losses.
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times Louis Bravely fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky Quit at *49* Walcott Bravely fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky Quit at *49* Charles Bravely fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky Quit at *49* Moore Bravely fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky Quit at *49* Savold Bravely fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky Quit at *49* Matthews Bravely fought *(103)* times.. .little Rocky Quit at *49* LaStarza Bravely fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky Quit at *49* Cockell Bravely fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky Quit at *49* Lowry Bravely fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky Quit at *49* Louis Bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky Only *8* years Walcott Bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky Only *8* years Charles Bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky Only *8* years Moore Bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky Only *8* years Savold Bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky Only *8* years Matthews Bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky Only *8* years LaStarza Bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky Only *8* years Cockell Bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky Only *8* years Lowry Bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky Only *8* years *Shocking isn't it?? We never se these stats bcz they're always Suppressed.* Imagine if today's Heavyweights Fury & Usyk had losing records lik that?? *Heck,, they'd be thrown under the bus immediately if they only had "'ONE"' loss,, let alone 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 or even 68!!!* *((* If a fighter *today* had *((20))* losses and was KO'd *((6))* times he'd be considered an undercard *F-LEVEL* Journeyman!!! Correct?? OH,, but, but, but it's okay for Jersey Joe Walcott bcz two-faced Marciano fans say it is *))* *HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:* Lewis --------- *2* Holmes ------ *6* Ali -------------- *5* Vitali ----------- *2* Foreman ---- *5* Tyson -------- *6* Wladimir ---- *5* Bowe --------- *1* Liston -------- *4* Louis --------- *3* Holyfield -- *10* Frazier ------- *4* Norton ------- *7* Tunney ------ *1* Dempsey --- *6* Johnson --- *11* *"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- *Lennox Lewis*
@@StudentofsweetscienceWOW!!! I thought I had a wealth of boxing knowledge. You really dropped so.e knowledge here! Where did you acquire such detailed stats? Very impressive!! Check it Out! Ciao!!!
Only an idiot would call the greatest fighter in history over-rated. There has never been anyone who can compare to Marciano. No one hit harder, no one had his stamina, no one could ever hurt Marciano. The absolute GOAT.
If 178 to 184 lb tiny cruiser Rocky was *all-Powerful* why didn't he ever break any bones? *He never broke one rib, one nose, one eye-socket, one jaw or detached one retina.* If he did i assure u every Rocky fan would be talking about it!! Right? Marciano catches lightning in a bottle ONE time vs. Walcott and his fans automatically assume he's the most powerful puncher that ever lived. Rocky never had 43 KO's, half were TKO's. Count them. There's a Huge difference between KO's and TKO's. LaStarza and Cockell were still standing, correct? Rocky's entire legacy has been built around that "one" KO against a guy that was at least 40yrs of age, if not older. *Just before Walcott gets KO'd where are both of his hands? They are at waist level. Why? Bcz he's worn out and his reflexes are shot. Father time waits for no one!* Roland LaStarza with all his supposed "Broken Bones" and "Ruptured Blood Vessels" only had minor surgery to remove tiny bone chips from his elbow just like David Tua did after his fight with Ibeabuchi. Elbow arthroscopy is a minimally invasive procedure. It's a common boxing injury yet y'all act as if both his arms were decapitated. Besides, Roland said, *"I already had elbow problems before i even fought Marciano."* I have the article. Here's the newspaper article about Layne's tooth: *"Rex Layne lost a left upper tooth..the tooth broke at the gums when Marciano caught the Utahn in the mouth with a full right hand. Layne was taken immediately after the fight to a New York dentist to have the teeth X-rayed and also for treatment on a broken tooth." Layne's handlers said, "the tooth went out with the gumshield."* ...So, Rex only sustained *"ONE"* broken tooth!!! This is important. *If all Layne's front teeth were sheared off at the gum's it would have been impossible for Layne to fight Charles exactly 3 months later.* Folks break their teeth all the time skateboarding or slipping and falling on the ice. One broken tooth, what's the big deal?
My uncle was a professional boxer and in elementary school i had dreams of becoming one as well. Then by the time i hit middle school i could tell how something wasnt right with him (punch drunk) and decided to not go down that path. Sparring is enough head injury for me.
Marciano got the Holmes treatment for beating the people's idol. That is what happened. He fought the absolute best of his era. Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, and Archie Moore were not washed up. Ezzard Charles is an all time goat who managed to get a win over Joe Louis and he was always competitive with Jersey Joe Walcott; which despite Walcott's age, manage to beat a prime Charles. You don't get to do that sort of stuff if you're not the very best in your division. It is an absolutely invalid excuse to say Walcott was old. As for Archie Moore, Marciano fought him when he was 41. He was an extremely consistent fighter all the way up to age 49, only losing to the very best of the best in every moment of his career. Saying that Archie Moore was washed up when Marciano fought him is also absolutely invalid.
Ezzard Charles was shopworn and clearly past his prime. He was getting beaten by B rate fighters like Valdez. Even in the 3rd Walcott fight he gets outworked by Jersey Joe before the knockout. He was nowhere near prime when he fought Rocky. Walcott himself was nearly 40 years old, fighting his very last fights against Rocky. Moore was 40. No matter how you slice it that is ancient. Sure these guys were not washed up but they were all not remotely close to their primes. Their skills got them by. Rocky is good but that 49-0 makes him massively overrated. Would he even beat a prime Ezzard Charles or Walcott? Considering how bad they were out-boxing him despite their diminished athleticism, I don't think so.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef Except for the fact that Ezzard Charles was in his prime when he lost to Jersey Joe Walcott. That completely demolishes everything you just said. It always has. It always will. And I will keep bringing it up. Because time and time again, you have absolutely no comeback.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef Archie Moore having consistent wins till he was 49 completely destroys your attempt to make it seem like Archie Moore put up poor performances at 40. "No matter how you slice" No matter how you slice it, you use "no matter how you slice it" and "I don't need to present arguments" as your words to evade logic.
@@GrubKiller436 I said he was not washed up. I said he still had more left in the tank. I think Charles, Moore and Walcott are good wins, just not great wins.
@@GrubKiller436 It's unfortunate for you that fight footage is available and we can see he is not in his prime. Prime Charles beat Walcott twice. He had slipped out of his prime by then. Walcott was out scoring him before the knockout by a wide margin. You know, the fighter that Ezzard was consistently out pointing in the previous fights. You can go watch the second fight and compare it. He also gets beat by Valdez later on and out pointed by Harold Johnson. Is that still prime Charles to you? He starts getting loss after loss around the period he fought Marciano. He clearly didn't have much left in the tank and the onset of ALS that would paralyze and kill him certainly didn't help him when fighting. Charles's prime ended when Walcott took him out. After that he was good, but never as good. If he was, he would have beaten Walcott in their fourth fight.
Combined Walcott Charles Moore Louis already had *((409))* fights (Louis 68, Walcott 68, Charles 95, Moore 178) before facing Rocky. Those 4 Hall of Famers had already been fighting pro for a combined *((74))* years (Louis 17, Walcott 22, Charles 15, Moore 20) before they faced Rocky. Imagine all the dozens of wars aka trauma those four had already experienced. Add the 96 exhibition fights Louis had during his 4 year military service and that makes *((505))* fights not to mention Walcott and Louis came back after retiring for a combined *((6½))* years. Mathematically and scientifically those four were already ring worn and washed. As a matter of Fact all of Rocky's opponents combined lost an astonishing *((753))* times!!! Worst resume in boxing history!
@@D.B.Cooper-747 I give it to you that this was an error regarding becoming unfaithful once his career finished and tarnish his reputation. However, when we talk about the ring he was humble in that he never really talked all brash and he tried to measure his words. If you can find an interview with him speaking arrogantly regarding boxing then please share that with me.
Joe Louis was dumb for coming out of retirement for this fight. He was 37. Back then, being 37 was like being close to 50 now. Dumb decision. Unless it was solely for the payday, which I understand. But for some reason I don't believe that was his reason.....which is why it makes no sense to me.
This reminds me of Holmes v Ali. Both just did what they had to do. It was heartbreaking for both. Holmes and Marciano were both undefeated. What are they supposed to do lose? Rest in peace Marciano! Gotta do what you gotta no matter how much it hurts you.
@@highjim7778 yeah, but for me it’s about resumes. He was undefeated, idk is he supposed to lose? 20 title defenses and fought for years and years at the same level. I see your point but it’s boxing man, you sign the contract you gotta do what you gotta do. Rocky was torn up so was Larry, it’s just part of the game.
@@highjim7778 Larry homes also idolized Muhammad Ali and sparred with him for years. So I don’t see how this is any different from Rocky. Holmes majorly looked up to Ali
Louis bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky only *7* years Walcott bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Charles bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Moore bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years Savold bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky only *7* years Matthews bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky only *7* years LaStarza bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky only *7* years Cockell bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Lowry bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years 1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)* 1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)* 2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1 3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1 4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)* 1947 5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1 6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)* *1947-03-17 PROFESSIONAL Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, and March in 1948.* 1948 *(Rocky goes back to the amateurs)* 7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1 8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3 9. February George McInnis TKO-1 10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)* 11. March Fred Fischera KO 12. March George McGinnis W-3 *1948-07-12 (Rocky goes back to pro) Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano.. Don Cuoco and Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson because once Pro you cannot go back to the amateurs.* Louis fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky quit at *49* Walcott fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Charles fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49* Moore fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Savold fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Matthews fought *(103)* times...little Rocky quit at *49* LaStarza fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49* Cockell fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49* Lowry fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49* Layne fought *(70)* times............little Rocky quit at *49* Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times Layne Lost *(17)* times and was KO'd *(6)* times *Shocking isn't it? We never see these stats bcz they're always suppressed. Today's Genuine Super Heavyweights Miller Zhang Bakole Joshua Fury Ruiz Parker Kabayel Itauma Jalolov Dubois only have a combined (15) losses yet they're already being thrown under the bus for eternity but it's perfectly fine for little Rocky's little opponents to have a combined ((753)) losses!!!* *HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:* Lewis --------- *2* Holmes ------ *6* Ali -------------- *5* Vitali ----------- *2* Foreman ---- *5* Tyson -------- *6* Wladimir ---- *5* Bowe --------- *1* Liston -------- *4* Louis --------- *3* Holyfield -- *10* Frazier ------- *4* Norton ------- *7* Tunney ------ *1* Dempsey --- *6* Johnson --- *11* *"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- Lennox Lewis
I cannot believe there are people out there who thinks a 186 lbs prime Marciano would defeat 225 lbs prime Muhammad Ali! Muhammad Ali would have chopped Marciano to pieces! Ali would have destroyed Marciano with his speed!
I agree with you but have to be pedantic and say a peak Ali weight about 215lbs. Henry Cooper and Sonny Banks both weighed something similar to Rocky and managed to drop the young Ali.
*Joe Louis is widely regarded as one of the greatest and most influential boxers of all time. He reigned as the world heavyweight champion from 1937 until his temporary retirement in 1949. He was victorious in 25 consecutive title defenses, a record for all weight classes. Louis had the longest single reign as champion of any boxer in history.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat: #1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record. #2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why! #3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed. #4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol. #5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.* #7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad. *Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.* Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents. *In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67" (1.70 meters) incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison, today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7"
Little Marciano quit boxing at only 31 years of age! Larry Holmes fought till he was 52. Holmes was born in 1949. Ad 31 years to 1949 = 1980. Holmes had exactly *(39)* fights after 1980. How many fights did little LH Archie Moore have after age 31? One hundred fifty? How many fights did Louis have after the age of 31? How many fights did Walcott have after the age of 31? How many fights did Charles have after the age of 31? *Well that pretty much sums up exactly why little Rocky never lost a fight.* I find it shocking how Rocky fans cannot understand this concept. Liston fought till he was 50 (or older). Foreman fought till he was 48. Had he continued fighting like everyone else did he undoubtedly would have lost. Instead the little 184lb-cruiser avoided being embarrassed and severely punished by a younger and stronger boxer as has always happened in the history of boxing! Little Rocky's younger brother, Peter, said, *"ROCKY WAS EMBARRASSED OF LOSING"* Well for Pete's sake it's no wonder he never lost, *he was a "'QUITTER"'!!!!*
Joe Louis was the most powerful and fastest punching heavyweight boxer in ring history. His great hand speed, especially in combination, was awesome to behold. He had a powerful jab, threw every punch perfectly and with wasteless accuracy. His right cross, thrown short and straight, was sheer dynamite. The "Brown Bomber" never ducked anyone as his record 25 title defenses attests to. Of those 25 successful defenses, 21 were won by knockout, 17 of those were ten counts! 5 in the first round! He also knocked out six men who held the Heavyweight Championship of the World. From 1934 to 1949, when he first retired as champion, his record was 60-1 with 51 knockouts. He held the Heavyweight Championship for a record of nearly 12 years.
Both real men. Always come to fight. Joe wouldn't have had it any other way. Boxing is a brutal and honest sport. That's why most of us will only observe.
Rocky made only 6 defences of his title. 1. Against the man he took the title from, 38 year old Joe Walcott. 2. Two fights against former middleweight and light heavyweight Ezzard Charles, who was the first man to take Rocky the distance in a 15 round title fight. 3. Against Roland La Starza. 4. Against Don Cockell 5. And his last defence was against 41 year old former light heavyweight Archie Moore. Who were the previous 43 opponents Rocky fought to pad up his record ? Who were these guys ? This is why Muhammad Ali, in spite of his loses, has a better resume than Marciano. Because after Ali made a comeback after nearly 4 years in exile, in which he was previously undefeated, he beat Oscar Bonavena, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, George Foreman, George Chuvalo and Ernie Shavers.
*Prime for prime it’s an entirely different story. Marciano would have had to deal with Louis’s explosive and hard jab, set-up uppercuts, finishing hooks and right hands. Rocky would have carried the fight to Joe, and instead of meeting him at center ring and trading, Louis would have inched back and countered Marciano and looked to fight him on the inside with his back to the ropes. Louis needed little room to punch and could get off in tight quarters, he would have been able to punch inside and beat Marciano's round punches to the mark all night.*
@@user-hv6sb3kg9gRocky would not take advantage of Louis's left hand placement. Schmeling was a master technician counter puncher with great hand speed. Marciano was a mauler. He would never play countering games with Louis, and unlike Max, he'd try to slug it out to no avail.
Joe Louis was the most powerful and fastest punching heavyweight boxer in ring history. His great hand speed, especially in combination, was awesome to behold. He had a powerful jab, threw every punch perfectly and with wasteless accuracy. His right cross, thrown short and straight, was sheer dynamite. The "Brown Bomber" never ducked anyone as his record 25 title defenses attests to. Of those 25 successful defenses, 21 were won by knockout, 17 of those were ten counts! 5 in the first round! He also knocked out six men who held the Heavyweight Championship of the World. From 1934 to 1949, when he first retired as champion, his record was 60-1 with 51 knockouts. He held the Heavyweight Championship for a record of nearly 12 years.
*The 37yr old Brown Bomber faintly resembled the well-oiled and efficient fighting machine he was during the late 30’s. He had nothing left offensively but a semblance of his left jab. He was slow of both hand and foot and needed to have his feet set perfectly inorder to get off. His punching power had all but evaporated, evidenced by him scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat: #1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record. #2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why! #3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed. #4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol. #5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.* #7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad. *Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.* Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents. *In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
"Hey when you get in that ring, it doesn't matter how old you are, you'd better be ready, because guys like Rocky Marciano will put you on your @$$. Joe came out of retirement for what????
"Consider that in Dec. 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano finishing a distant 7th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 7th in 1962 how does he propel to the top 5, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Marciano? This is a key point. Boxing historians Herb Goldman and Charley Rose rated Marciano at # 8, "Mr. Boxing, himself," Nat Fleischer rated him at # 10 and John McCallum's Survey of Old Timers (survey of a group of historians and writers) had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Marciano in their lifetime thought he was a top 7 all time Heavyweight and 68 years have passed since Rocky retired." *Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!! How DARE you use facts, logic, common sense, and hard evidence in a discussion like this instead of talking about how you FEEL and getting upset at anyone who doesn’t affirm your feelings? That’s cheating! 😂
Charles Walcott Moore Savold Lowry Layne Cockell Wilson Shkor Walls Henri Simmons Eatman Muscato and Besore lost *(("'411'"))* times. Charles *((25))* times. Walcott *((20))* times. Moore *((23))* times. Savold *((45))* times. Lowry *((68))* times. Layne *((17))* times. Cockell *((14))* times. Wilson *((27))* times. Shkor *((19))* times. Walls *((41))* times. Henri *((29))* times. Simmons *((22))* times. Eatman *((21))* times. Muscato *((23))* times and Besore *((17))* times. *Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
*In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat: #1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record. #2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why! #3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed. #4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol. #5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.* #7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why! #8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad. *Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.* Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents. *In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Don Turner said, *"Marciano was the hardest puncher i ever seen."* Oh really, when was Don ever hit by Marciano??? Archie Moore rated Sheppard and Durelle as the hardest punchers. Emanuel Steward rated Lewis and Wladimir as the hardest punchers. 84yr old Don Turner is entitled to his opinion just as George Foreman has his opinion. Earnie Shavers also has an opinion just as Ron Lyle and Riddick Bowe have theirs. *Why wasn't trainer Don Turner out there looking for another power-punching midget to rule the Heavies??? Instead he chose 6' 7" 250-lb Michael Grant who had an incredible 86" reach!!! Think, people. Think.* Marciano had his last fight in New York 1955. Turner was born in 1939 and raised in Cincinnati. Don was only 15 years old. He had no money and was over 600 miles away. *His opinions are based on hearsay and film, in other words the same as ours!!!* Turner said, "I have no idea what my father did. We were on welfare and lived in the Cincinnati projects four blocks from Ezzard Charles." Turner explains how Charles and Marciano were always his favorites @ A Beautiful Sickness: Reflections on the Sweet Science, by Thomas Hauser, 2001- page's 72 & 74. Here's some of the top rated trainers of all time; Cus D' Amato Eddie Futch Freddie Roach Ignacio "Nacho" Beristain Lou Duva Emanuel Steward Angelo Dundee Jack Blackburn Teddy Atlas Roger Mayweather Gil Clancy Ray Arcel BUT NO DON.. WON'T SEE DON TURNER ANYWHERE!!!! Vitali fans, Wladimir fans, Fury fans, Ali fans, Foreman fans, Frazier fans, Lewis fans, Holmes fans, Tyson fans, Bowe fans, Ibeabuchi fans *NEVER* discuss Don Turner,, only Rocky fanboys ever discuss Turner's opinionated speculations and believe it as the gospel truth. Don lost all credibility when he convinced Holyfield that the cutman is "the biggest scam in boxing." Needless to say the lack of a cutman was the determining factor that cost Holyfield the Heavyweight championship against Michael Moorer. Evander Holyfield fired him. Michael Grant fired him. Everyone gave Don the-boot. Fighters only worked with him as a last resort. Emanuel Steward and other trainers despised him. Turner also said, "Charles was never the same after his first fight with Marciano." *That is 100% False!!!* He was never the same after all his wars with Walcott, Moore, Maxim, Valdez, Johnson, Bivins, etcetera. Ezzard Charles was already showing symptoms of ALS before he ever faced Marciano -@- William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life
Notice all the *'required'* Quotes from Rocky fans. Quotes are not factual. They're speculations and/or opinions. Ali doesn't have to be defended through opinionated Quotes. His resume speaks for itself. Holmes resume speaks for itself. Lennox resume speaks for itself. Klitschko resume speaks for itself. On the other hand little 184lb Rocky's resume *"'MUST BE"'* defended through quotes bcz his resume is embarrassing once ya study it. It's filled with middleweight and light heavy F-LEVEL tomato cans and ring worn has beens. What are y'all scared of? Research it!
Quotes are spec·u·la·tion /ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/ noun, and speculation is the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.. Similar: opinion, hypothesize, guess, surmise, notion, prediction, forecast, gamble, venture, risk. Just bcz Ali said, "Rocky *"'MIGHT'"* have beaten me," *does that make it true???* Might does *not* mean *would have.* It means *maybe* or *possibly.* Ali was showing respect...Or like how you would say about a kids punch...Whew that little boy can knock me out...ooo he hits hard. Holmes said, *"Rocky couldn't carry his jockstrap,"* does that make it true???
I really would have liked to have heard what Marciano and Louis had to say. I might have been able to but for that damned artsy-fartsy background music.
Marciano was not just undefeated, Marciano has the all time highest knockout percentage in the heavyweight division. Higher percentage than Wilder, Tyson, Foreman, Louis, Liston, Frazier, Lewis, Shavers, and Klitscho, just to remind of some of the assasins he led in KO percentage. His Suzy Q was so feared, his stance and technique so unorthodox, that many of the techiques he used have been widely copied. His height and weight make people dismiss him as being able to be a champion in different eras. I think that is misguided thinking. There are some TH-cam videos out there that delve into his techniques and they are fascinating. The way he dealt with larger opponents and their jabs and reach advantage was fascinating. Marciano didn't take alot of punishment. There was a reason for that and it had to do with the fear of his power and his unique inside game and unique defense. He countered with all of his weight leaning into his punches and was rarely countered himself. He should have been knocked cold, conventional thinking says, with the way he put his forward weight into nearly every punch, but Marciano was rarely in danger. He is underrated by most moden boxing pundits because of his reach and weight. These folks discount his astonishing power and ring skill.
"Consider that in Dec. 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano finishing a distant 7th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 7th in 1962 how does he propel to the top 5, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Marciano? This is a key point. Boxing historians Herb Goldman and Charley Rose rated Marciano at # 8, "Mr. Boxing, himself," Nat Fleischer rated him at # 10 and John McCallum's Survey of Old Timers (survey of a group of historians and writers) had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Marciano in their lifetime thought he was a top 7 all time Heavyweight and 68 years have passed since Rocky retired." *Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Typical Rocky Marciano formula was taking fights with older and retired boxers. The guilt may stem from defeating the fighter who once fought for national pride but in those days, more than today, if you didn't fight you didn't eat so quite helpful to older fighters after all.
A Rocky fan wrote, *"Rocky was not only a credit to the sport of boxing but he was a credit to the human race."* Oh really? Is that why he was dishonorably discharged for felony assault and robbery and, after he quit boxing he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousand and left them penniless. Some credit, he was a disgrace.
@@DylanRoberson-p9vAll of Marciano big named fighters that he fought were past their primes including Joe Walcott 36 and Archie Moore 39. He fought Ezzard Charles who already fought over 90 fights before facing Rocky he struggled to beat them. None of those fighters were in their primes.
I don’t feel sorry for Joe Lewis he thought he was going to beat Rocky and that’s why he came back and he got destroyed 😂 no one dragged him in the Ring !
Rocky Marciano was great champion there's no doubt about that true Hall of famer but he wouldn't have a chance against the big heavyweights of the 70s 80s 90s and even today's big boxers.
Every champ fights their fare share of tomato cans. But nobody, and i mean nobody, fought as many F-LEVEL tomato can bums as Marciano did. It's no joke, do the research. *Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
How could Marciano have possibly cleaned out his division when he only defended his title (6) times? Little Rocky ducked Marty Marshall, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard just to name a few. He didn't even come close to cleaning out his division like Louis, Liston, Ali and Lennox did. *Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
You have to respect every competitor for stepping into the ring but my gut instinct also says Rocky is one of the biggest frauds in boxing history. One way or another
*Marciano Ducked Marty Marshall, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard. He knew he'd have to eventually confront Cleveland Williams, Johansson, Patterson, Liston, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin and Ellis. We could've found out how Marciano would've done against all these guys had he not "UP-N-QUIT" during his Prime after a measley (7) years while everyone else was fighting (15) to (25) years!! For Pete's sake Marciano was only 31 in his last fight.*
i believe Rocky would rise to whatever challenge presented to him...thats why he was a great champion. he also had a granite chin and he was deceptively powerful. make no mistake joe louis was at the end of his career...but he was a dangerous, frightening individual. and a great champion. people saying rocky beat an old man fighting for money do not understand what these men were made of. great fighters have a competitve spirit few of us can comprehend. anyone who writes off joe louis as an old man at the time of that fight is a fool. he was an old man who could beat anyone on earth right now. these heavyweights today couldnt spar with him.
Joe and Rocky were both classy gentlemen.
Archie Moore said, *"ROCKY MARCIANO WAS ABOUT 15 YEARS YOUNGER THAN I WAS"* --@ Archie Moore Talks 2007TBears
Archie Moore also said, *"I WAS IN MY (40's) FORTY'S VS. FLOYD PATTERSON,"* --@ Rare Archie Moore Interview
The host asks Archie Moore, (@ 6:35) "why does your mother say your one age and you say another?" Archie replies, *"I DON'T DENY ANYTHING"* .. *"I NEVER DENY WHAT MY MOTHER QUOTES"* .. *"I KNOW MY AGE"* .. *"AND I'VE BEFUDDLED A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REQUIRING ABOUT MY AGE CONSTANTLY"* .. *"AND THAT KEEPS ME IN THE NEWS."* --@ Day and Night: Archie Moore, boxer
*Light heavyweight Moore was easily in his 40s vs. little 184lb-cruiser Rocky and that is no longer debatable!!!*
According to Marciano himself, Muhammad Ali would have won. Rocky said three boxers in his lifetime were a bridge too far for him, a young Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, and Ali. Louis for hand speed and power, Ali for pure speed, and Liston for technical excellence and pure brute strength. --by Mike Stanton and Fight City
Peter Marciano, Rocky's younger brother, admitted Rocky retired from the ring bcz, *"losing a fight would be a tremendous embarrassment to him."* So that's why he quit, he was Terrified of Losing!!! Peter says that --@ 13:10 *ROCKY MARCIANO vs MUHAMMAD ALI - THE SUPER FIGHT | DOCUMENTARY from BBTV BOXING*
It's no wonder he had no losses! He only had a mere 8yr boxing career! Louis's 19yrs is acceptable,, Walcott's 22yrs fine,, Moore's 27yrs all good,, Charles's 20yrs no problems. BUT BUT Little Mr. Midget Man only fights 8yrs then pitifully runs away from *EMBARRASSMENT!!!!*
The funniest thing about this docu is they build little 184lb-cruiser Rocky up as if he were a Phenom, *but towards the end they all agree that a prime Ali would have beaten him in a real boxing match LOL!!!*
Ali actually put little 184lb-cruiser Marciano in the hospital for an entire week after their ballet choreographed sparing match. *"Rocky entered into the hospital for exhaustion, dehydration and torn bicep." --Peter Marciano* ... I've seen a lot of Getty and Fight City images. Rocky had zero muscle tone and fat was hangin everywhere. He looked *Terrible* and was only 45. That's not all. U could clearly see Ali was at least 6" taller!
When asked who was the hardest puncher he'd ever faced, Archie replied, *"CURTIS 'HATCHETMAN' SHEPPARD. I SAW SHEPPARD HIT OPPONENTS ON THE TOP OF THE HEAD, IN THE FOREHEAD, AND KNOCK THEM OUT LIKE HE DID HAVE A HATCHET IN HIS HAND. I SAW HIM HIT A GUY IN THE HEAD AND BREAK HIS COLLARBONE.”* -@ Archie Moore interview 1998 Heart of San Diego.
It's kinda eerie listenin to Archie describe Curtis.
Apparently 'The Hatchetman' traumatized Archie.
'The Hatchetman' is the only person to ever KO Joey Maxim. Light heavyweight Joey was flattened cold in only 0:51 seconds!
Many fighters similar to Curtis Sheppard and Ted Lowry were never going get a title shot for obvious reasons. That's why they intentionally lost so many times. But hey,, they still made a decent living taking dives and padding records for $$$
Greatest fighter ever Rocky 💪💪💪
Two of the absolute greats
Both "Men of Class"❤
Italian americans til this very bring him up whenever there is a championship boxing match. Rocky will always be the champion of the Italian people.
Old time boxers were heroes! Today............
Joe Lewis was sick in the end of his life and was in the hospital Marciano paid hospital bills and supported him and visited him on a regular despite emotionally crushed Marciano. Fact is Joe Lewis wanted to fight Marciano because Joe Lewis needed money.
It's a shame you can not even spell Louis correctly.
Marciano never helped pay anyone's hospital bills. He abandoned his own kids and wife to sleep with thousands then and left them penniless.
Muhammad Ali, "Umm Marciano... Marciano, umm, phew, ooh he hit hard. He hit you so hard *unrecognizable* folks in Africa."
Cosell, "But you think you could have beaten him too?"
Ali, "Well it a been rough, look Howard, I don't take nothing from these fellas especially those deceased. Marciano and I were good friends, but I truly think on my best day and his best day I would have beaten him, probably not knocked him out, I been sore, I think he was better than Joe Frazier I'd put it that way. I truly think he was better than Joe Frazier. I think it be even, he may have won - it's just hard, it's just up to the imagination.
Cosell, " You know you started out with so much braggadocio, now you're ending with humility."
Ali, "Yea, you got the last man Marciano. Showing him last, you did the right thing. He wasn't as great as me, wasn't as beautiful everyone knows that. But I don't know if I would have beat him with his style and my style. He could've out-pointed me, could've knocked me down. Did a computer fight with him when he was an old man just pretending and my arms were so sore just for joking with him. In his heyday he may have won, he probably wouldn't... that's up for the imagination. In the end I still think I'm the greatest of all time!"
Later, in part 6 Ali flips a script saying that *"a prime Louis, Walcott, Charles, and Moore would've beat Marciano."* He then goes on to his usual *"I'm the greatest"* after part 6. Why was the most important part removed?? *Ali said, "a prime Louis, Walcott, Charles, and Moore would've beat Marciano."*
*This valuable information has been suppressed for 48 years!!!* Imagine all the uploaders that have been entering incorrect information for decades!!! Truth is Rocky uploaders removed 3 hours 28 minutes because it didn't align with their agenda!!! *The Fact is Ali Hated Marciano!!!* Why not just use Rocky's resume to defend him instead of hiding vital information?? Well because Rocky's resume is Horseshirt, that's why!!! Y'all can order copies *@ Muhammad Ali Archival Television Audio Inc* just go to the 3rd page to order 9889 is 90 MIN, 9889A is 30 MIN and 9890 is 90 MIN. That's 3 1/2 hours of Ali discussing Marciano Walcott Charles Moore and Louis.. *"a prime Louis, Walcott, Charles, and Moore would've beat Marciano."* - Muhammad Ali, 02/15/76
(As more proof Dave Diles explains Ali discussing Marciano Walcott Charles Moore in depth @ 0:15 or very beginning of *1976 Daytona 500 - ABC Wide World of Sports coverage* from NascarAllOut)
Miller weighs - 305
Zhang - 285
Bakole - 285
Teremoana - 285
Ruiz - 275
Briggs - 265
Grant - 265
Fury - 262
Jalolov - 253
Parker - 250
Foreman - 220/250
Vitali - 250
Peter - 250
Joshua - 250
Whyte - 250
Ibeabuchi - 245
Lennox - 245
Kabayel - 245
Wladimir - 245
Dubois - 245
Sanchez - 245
Ruddock - 245
Hrgovic - 245
Itauma - 240
Wardley - 240
Bowe - 240
Ortiz - 240
Witherspoon - 235
Tua - 235
Dokes - 235
Bruno - 230
Morrison - 230
Cooney - 230
Thomas - 225
Usyk - 223
Lyle - 220
Holmes - 218
Holyfield - 218
Tyson - 218
Wilder - 218
Ali - 218
Liston - 218
Frazier - 206
Dempsey - 187
*Moore - 175 lb Light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962.*
*Charles - 181 lb Heavyweight champion with lowest ever 42% KO's.*
*Marciano - 184 lb Heavyweight champion with 67" flyweight reach.*
Louis bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky only *7* years
Walcott bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Charles bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Moore bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years
Savold bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky only *7* years
Matthews bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky only *7* years
LaStarza bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky only *7* years
Cockell bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Lowry bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years
1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)*
1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)*
2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1
3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1
4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)*
1947
5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1
6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)*
*1947-03-17 PROFESSIONAL Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, and March in 1948.*
1948 *(Rocky goes back to the amateurs)*
7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1
8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3
9. February George McInnis TKO-1
10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)*
11. March Fred Fischera KO
12. March George McGinnis W-3
*1948-07-12 (Rocky goes back to pro) Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano.. Don Cuoco and Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson because once Pro you cannot go back to the amateurs.*
Louis fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky quit at *49*
Walcott fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Charles fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49*
Moore fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Savold fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Matthews fought *(103)* times...little Rocky quit at *49*
LaStarza fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49*
Cockell fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49*
Lowry fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49*
Layne fought *(70)* times............little Rocky quit at *49*
Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times
Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times
Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times
Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times
Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times
Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times
LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times
Layne Lost *(17)* times and was KO'd *(6)* times
*Shocking isn't it? We never see these stats bcz they're always suppressed. Today's Genuine Super Heavyweights Miller Zhang Bakole Joshua Fury Ruiz Parker Kabayel Itauma Jalolov Dubois only have a combined (15) losses yet they're already being thrown under the bus for eternity but it's perfectly fine for little Rocky's little opponents to have a combined ((753)) losses!!!*
*HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:*
Lewis --------- *2*
Holmes ------ *6*
Ali -------------- *5*
Vitali ----------- *2*
Foreman ---- *5*
Tyson -------- *6*
Wladimir ---- *5*
Bowe --------- *1*
Liston -------- *4*
Louis --------- *3*
Holyfield -- *10*
Frazier ------- *4*
Norton ------- *7*
Tunney ------ *1*
Dempsey --- *6*
Johnson --- *11*
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- Lennox Lewis
Marciano beat whoever was put in front of him. Walcott was older but was Heavyweight champ for a reason, Archie Moore , Ezzard Charles weren’t pushovers 🤷♂️
That’s what Mike Tyson did in his prime , constant relentless pressure !!!!!!
The subtext here is that Joe needed money and thay was the best way for him to get paid. Joe was very patriotic. He'd invested most of his fortune into war bonds that became worthless after the war was over. It's odd because they kept his money and sunk it back into the military industrial complex. They played up the Americans vs Kraut hype when Louis fought Schmeiling. The irony is that Schmeiling had zero love for Hitler and The Third Reich. But he toed the line to protect himself and his family. Fast forward, Max's companies made money and he gave Joe enough money to sustain for the remainder of his life.
Rocky was a hungry fighter but he didn't want to do Joe like that. But when that bell rings, I suppose it doesnt matter who the other guy is.
Macaroni fought the biggest name fighters past their prime. If he had stayed around another five years he would not have retired undefeated.
Sonny Liston wanted to get revenge for Joe, but he got incarcerated.
I think Rocky would've won bro trained like crazy
Joe Louis was up in age, he was fighting a younger boxer, we all know that was not fair😮😢,Jack Johnson and Muhammad Ali was the greatest boxer of all time and next Came Mike Tyson😊🎉
They both had a good payday
The brown bomber😿
Yeah Rocky fought guys in their later years but that happens to most guys coming up hence coming up. The only difference is is that Rocky had no physical or talent advantage. 🤦
I don’t blame anything on Rocky. He fought everyone around even if they were way past their prime. Wasn’t Rockys fault but in NO way he would’ve beaten Ali IMO Size alone it would b dam near impossible
“The Brown Bomber” and The “Brockton Blockbuster” they will never be forgotten
"From the beginning and all through the buildup of the Walcott vs. Louis 1 fight in 1947, the press criticized Walcott. *In no time at all, his age became a huge subject of debate. Every sports reporter claimed that Jersey Joe was at least 38 years old. Others said he was older.* Sportswriters dubbed him "Pappy," "elderly," "ancient," and "aging" were commonly used to describe Walcott. Since he was born at home and not in a hospital, he could not prove his age with a birth certificate that was filed when he was born. Walcott had to have a birth certificate for the different state boxing commission's inorder to continue boxing. Needless to say Walcott haphazardly created and filed a birth certificate in 1936 when he was in his mid 20s at the Camden Bureau of Vital Statistics." *It's all there in Walcott's biography Chapter 9 page 71. If Walcott was 38 when he fought Louis in 47 wouldn't that put him at 43 when he faced little Rocky in 52?*
It makes perfect sense when ya study Walcott's facial features and the way his legs faded around the 10th round against little Rocky. That's exactly why he got trapped against the ropes with both hands down during the unlucky 13th. As Rocky slowly shuffled towards Walcott why didn't he move to his left or right like he was previously doing? *Bcz his ring worn 40yr old senior citizen legs were washed, that's why.* Hey, it happens to us all. Nobody escapes father time!
Journeyman Joe Walcott lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end. He is only remembered for his losses, Not his wins! Who did he beat? His only respectable win came against light heavyweight Charles who factually had Lou Gehrig's disease when they fought in 51. Walcott lost to 'middleweights' Mays ,, Palmer ,, Ketchell ,, AND 'light' heavyweights Charles 'twice' ,, Fox 'twice' ,, Maxim ,, Brothers ,, Taylor.
Would Journeyman Joe be a great Heavyweight today?
How could he when he consistently lost to Middleweights and Light heavyweights.
Walcott was never an ATG.
At best he was C-LEVEL Journeyman.
This is important. Walcott retired for 4 years and 4 months, during his Prime!
Who *did little 184lb-cruiser Rocky fight? He fought nobody notable until Walcott who was at least 40 if not older. Walcott never had a birth certificate, he created one in his mid 20s. It's all in his biography, Chapter 9 page 71. Then there was little LH Charles who had symptoms of Lou Gehrig's in 1951. It's all in his biography by William Dettloff. Rocky rapidly quit his very short career against another little light heavyweight, Archie Moore who was at least 42 if not older. Sad.*
Little 184lb-cruiser Marciano didn't even come close to cleaning out his division like Liston, Ali, Louis and Lennox did. *Marciano ducked Marty Marshall, Valdez, Johnson, Baker, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith, and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard.* How could he have possibly cleaned out his division when he only defended his title a measly (6) times??? Had Rocky fought only 3 more years, through 1959, he would've had to fight Johansson, Williams, Liston and Patterson. And yes those four guys had a few losses. At least they didn't have a combined 85 losses like Walcott Charles Moore Layne had! Correct? *I ASSURE YOU Johansson Williams Liston Patterson were 10x better than anything little Rocky EVER faced.* But of course we were all robbed of seeing any of those bouts bcz little Rocky was a *"'QUITTER!!!"'*
"What could be better than walking down any street and knowing you are the heavyweight champ of the world." - Rocky Marciano
It's clear as day that Moore's 42yr old speed is shot against both Marciano and Patterson. All though ya couldn't notice it with Marciano because he was just as slow as Moore. A fighter is in his prime when he has the maturity and experience to go along with undiminished reflexes. Once his reflexes start to slide he's past-prime, simple as that. When his reflexes are gone he's a shot fighter. I can't recall seeing a fighter older than his early 30s that still had his reflexes fully intact.
Walcott was at least 40yrs old when he fought Marciano. He had already retired once before (4yrs) and was now at the very tail end of his career. Which makes perfect sense when ya study Walcott's facial features and the way his legs started wearing out around the 10th round. That's exactly why Walcott got stuck against the ropes with both hands down. As Rocky slowly shuffled towards Walcott why didn't he move to his left or right like he was previously doing? Bcz his Senior citizen legs were washed, that's why. Hey, it happens to us all. Nobody escapes father time!
*Little Rocky won his humongous Super Heavyweight title weighing a measley 184,, and there is absolutely nothing you can ever do,, or say,, to make him Bigger*
@@Robert.Levi.Miller ah you again having the time of your life commenting on everything? holy shit you must have a really dissapointing and depressive life im sure of it.....did you fail so much in your own life that you have to do this to actually feel something old man? do you have kids or do you live alone in the dark which i think will be the case........poor little creature
Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67" (1.70 meters) incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison, today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7"
Father time is undefeated. Louis had nothing to be ashamed about.
Indeed. It was the IRS that should be ashamed. And horsewhipped.
Fr he was forced to fight after retiring
@user-lq5et8lg7f That's right I remember hearing that. He went broke right?
Ring Magazine polled 40 boxing experts on who was the greatest Heavyweight of all-time in 1962. These are historians who were actually there when he reigned as champion and Marciano's highest ranking was 7th place. The overwhelming majority rated him lower like Nat Fleischer had him at # 10, Charley Rose and McCallum's survey of old-timers rated him at # 9. All these people were born in the late 1800s and passed away in the 1960s and 70s.
Little 184lb Marciano is regarded by many as the greatest Heavyweight ever, best of the best. The question is how does he stack up with the Mount Rushmore of Heavyweights?? I don't see how his status remotely moves up with the multitude of great Heavyweights that came after him. All the professionals, trainers, managers, experts and historians who actually saw Rocky Marciano fight during the 50s and 60s thoroughly examined his career yet they barely ranked him top-10 Heavyweight, of all-time. *I trust Nat's opinion before y'all's gibberish casual diatribe.*
Genius Nat Fleischer (1887-1972) was the founder, president, publisher and editor of The Ring, a monthly magazine devoted to boxing and professional wrestling. Fleischer is called Mr. Boxing, or in the cant of masters of ceremony, "Mr. Boxing, himself," an introduction uniting man and legend. Fleischer’s story in many ways is the story of boxing. His experience is unlike that of anyone else from boxing’s past and certainly no one will ever be able to make his claims in the future.
In 1958 Fleischer wrote, “I have been on intimate terms with every heavyweight champion since James J. Corbett. I have seen almost every heavyweight championship bout in the past half century, and most of those in other divisions that reach across a stretch of many exciting years.” Fleischer in fact saw every heavyweight champion from Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier from ringside, most of those from the first row. Possibly no one else in history can make that claim. Fleischer’s unique perspective demands respect from those who are interested in the history of boxing.
Nat tended to just report the fights as he saw it from ringside and did not editorialize too much. Nat was well known for his ability to break down and describe the styles of fighters and the action that took place in the ring. Here are some descriptions of fighters there is film on so we can compare what Nat said of them to what we know from the films. We can then know that what he said about fighters whom we have little film on is also accurate.
Of Joe Louis he penned, in the April 1939 Ring, “He sails in, crashes his blows to the body and head, gives the opposition little chance to get set for a counter-attack and wards off blows with the cleverness of a Jack Johnson. Only Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey compare to Joe Louis of today in all around ability...No human body can take the punishment that Jolting Joe dishes out once he goes after his prey. That has been proved conclusively in his last few contests.” In the Mar. 1942 Ring, after Louis' destruction of the 6'6" 250 pound Buddy Baer, Nat Said that “Not even in the second fight with Max Schmeling did the Detroit Destroyer show as much as he did against Buddy. Joe had everything. He was magnificent. He was a whirlwind on attack, a master of defense, a terror with his devastating punches.”
In evaluating Rocky Marciano he wrote December 1955 Ring, “Those who believe that he lacks the necessary qualifications for gaining a niche in the fistic hall of fame as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time won’t argue that as a puncher, he takes his place alongside such greats as Jeffries, Louis and Dempsey. They limit his qualifications for greatness to the category of “hitting power”, strength and durability all of which Rocky possesses to a high degree but which are *insufficient to gain for him a place among the greats of the past.”* “Despite his crudeness, he can move about the ring at a pretty fast gate and can toss more punches than any heavyweight of recent years. But misses more frequently than any champion I’ve ever seen.” *“He has faced very few real punchers during his career.* The two best, Walcott and Moore- both thirty-eight at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. *Joe Louis is not included* since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.”
Besides putting out the highly regarded Ring-Fleischer has published Nat Fleischer's Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia.The Ring Record Book is the most comprehensive of all annual reference sources on boxing. Mainly in the interests of boxing, Fleischer has made 37 trips to Europe and has gone around the world six times, furiously writing all the while. He has 20 passports. Discounting entertainers, Fleischer is the most widely known U.S. private citizen abroad. He is enshrined in the Helms Hall of Fame in Los Angeles. Fleischer has refereed and judged more than 1,000 fights. All told, Fleischer has published 57 books of history, biography and instruction on boxing. Fleischer has a 268,800-word "bibliography" of boxing. Counting his articles for The Ring and serials and pieces he dashes off in an hour or so for foreign publications, it has been estimated that Fleischer has written 40 million words in his lifetime.
Rocky Marciano's record, 49-0, seeing that it looks and sounds so good. That is, until I take a peek at who he actually fought during his career. I feel, that boxing was more unskilled back then, the fighters looked so weak, and the Heavyweight division, in particular, so watered down due to many of the young American men being forced to serve in the Korean War.
Marciano, though, seems to mean a lot to people, almost seeming like a symbol for some of them, and brings out some strong assumptions about his place in history. If you for one second question Marciano’s record, it’s as if you comitted some cardinal sin or something. Give me a break. He was a good fighter, but not that good.
While I am fond of the Heavyweight division, I don’t really consider Marciano to be a true Heavyweight given his short stature, which, at 5’ 10” 185 lb, he would even be considered small for Cruiserweight in this day and age. However, Marciano’s good luck of fighting during the war years, which had to have had a dramatic effect on the pool of quality opponents to compete with. I mean, it hardly seems sporting that there were so few quality fighters to gauge Marciano’s talent.
What’s even worse, Marciano’s career Heavyweight championship reign, a mere three years and 6 six fights, came about, luckily for him, after Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott, had aged beyond their prime, leaving Marciano free to beat up on the older warriors when they weren’t at their best. Probably, for many people, what I’m saying about Marciano, is a bitter pill to swallow, but if you look into his ring history very far, I’m sure most of you would come to the same conclusion.
Marciano, at the age of 32, announced his retirement from boxing in April 1956. The announcement was a shock for many people, needless to say, for they figured that Marciano was going to hold onto the title for years to come, and had not seen a fighter Quit while at the top.
Perhaps the punishment from Moore, and his two ring wars with Charles, gave him a hint that he didn’t have much longer. Or possibly, Marciano might have been hearing the footsteps of the next heavyweight champion, Floyd Patterson, who was a young up and coming contender, with a 30-1 record at the time of Marciano’s retirement. Patterson would later win the vacant heavyweight title, stopping Archie Moore in the 5th round in November 1956, the same year that Marciano retired.
Personally, I feel that Marciano was tremendously overrated as a fighter. He was good, yes, but he fought his toughest fights against fighters that were beyond their best years. So, when looking at his accomplishments, one must keep that in mind, otherwise you’re seeing a warped image of how good Marciano really was.
Moreover, his ring record of 49-0, was largely built on fighting 2nd and 3rd tier fighters, opponents that were essentially ring fodder and were easily knocked out by decent fighters. The fact that the vast majority of his opponents were of marginal ability, along with the old age and ring wear of the ones that were good, and you get a beautiful record of 49-0. It looks good on paper, but it hardly means that you were the best.
Listen to how the men speak.
Articulate, Intelligent and humble.
There is a lot to be learned from these men.
Especially nowadays so-called fighters
Exactly. Violent gentlemen with class is no more.
Doesn’t exist anymore. They speak like idiots now.
*EZZARD CHARLES WAS 100% FACTUALLY HANDICAPPED WITH LOU GEHRIG'S DISEASE WHEN HE FOUGHT ROCKY MARCIANO!!!*
William Dettloff’s biography *'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'* documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, as early as 1951. This was 3 years before the Marciano fights, and it was also the same year he lost his title. Ezzard, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. Bert Sugar said, *"His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50's, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* --@ 35:01 ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano
*(Too many reputable witnesses!!)*
*(Renowned physicist Stephen Hawking lived with ALS for 55 years!!)*
Read *Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life by William Dettloff.* Charles already had symptoms (1951) of Lou Gehrig's disease long before he fought Rocky in 1954. How can anyone say he didn't if u've never read Ezzard's biography? If a Rocky fan were to read a Rocky biography they'd hang on to every word as if it were the holy grail. That's not all. *Rocco Francis Marchegiano was actually African Italian.*
According to Rocky fans Rocky's *"'(0)"'* meant *Everything!!!* Without it he wouldn't even be ranked top-30. Only *"'ONE'"* loss would have destroyed his entire legacy!!! Since so much emphasis is put on the *"'Perfect Record'"* can someone explain why Charles Walcott Moore Savold Lowry Layne Cockell Wilson Shkor Walls Henri Simmons Eatman Muscato and Beshore *LOST (("'411"')) TIMES?*
Charles Lost (25) times
Walcott Lost (20) times
Moore Lost (23) times
Savold Lost (45) times
Lowry Lost (68) times
Layne Lost (17) times
Cockell Lost (14) times
Wilson Lost (27) times
Shkor Lost (19) times
Walls Lost (41) times
Henri Lost (29) times
Simmons Lost (22) times
Eatman Lost (21) times
Muscato Lost (23) times
Beshore Lost (17) times
*(and many more with double digit losses)*
*IF "'0"' IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS DOESN'T THAT MEAN ROCKY'S OPPONENTS WERE HORSESHIRT BECAUSE THEY LOST?? SINCE THEY WERE HORSESHIRT DOESN'T THAT ALSO MEAN ROCKY'S 49-0 IS HORSESHIRT??*
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES."* - Lennox Lewis
*(Four hundred eleven losses and Rocky fans have the audacity to say today's Super Heavyweights are Bum's hahahaha.)*
"In the ring, i never really knew fear." - Rocky Marciano
178 to 188 lb tiny cruiser Marciano's opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire-CAREER record, not a partial record.* Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Pro boxers can easily be evaluated using grades *A, B, C, D, F* which has been used for decades:
Lee Epperson career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone career record 0 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards career record 1 win 2 losses *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman career record 1 win 6 losses *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson career record 4 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft career record 12 wins 8 losses *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly career record 12 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian career record 15 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson career record 3 wins 10 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell career record 4 wins 17 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron career record 4 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato career record 7 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie career record 10 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis career record 32 wins 14 losses *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons career record 9 wins 22 losses *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri career record 18 wins 29 losses *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls career record 20 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry career record 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino career record 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic career record 18 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman career record 22 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate career record 12 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold career record 104 wins 45 losses *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato career record 56 wins 23 losses *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson career record 56 wins 27 losses *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor career record 31 wins 19 losses *D-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore career record 35 wins 17 losses *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans 18 wins 8 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross 19 wins 5 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn 20 wins 4 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds 53 wins 13 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards 24 wins 9 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo 16 wins 2 losses looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell 66 wins 14 losses looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews 90 wins 7 losses is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight?*
*Even Rocky's 5 best opponents: Charles, Moore, Walcott, Layne, LaStarza -- LOST (94) times and were KO'd (28) times!!!*
There it is. Y'all are intelligent enough to make your own judgement about Rocky's *F-LEVEL* resume. Who did he fight? Walcott was 40, Moore 42, Charles had ALS and Louis was washed. To continue claiming he was the Greatest or even top 10 Greatest Heavyweight is absurd. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight
*"Name one, just one 'Prime' all time great boxer Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore Louis was 'Prime' when they fought him?"*
Jesus Christ Kenny I wish you spent that much time analyzing something more useful like analyzing electricity usage to help fixing blackouts in places
@@KINGFAROOQ1216I wished you used punctuation.
@@KINGFAROOQ1216Hahaha. It's related though, it's boxing. More solar panels, etc. (;
@@Robert.Levi.Millerand I bet you don’t even have a job. Now do wilder
Rocky was relentless and fought with brutal fury.....a champions desire to win at all costs.....and the perfect gentleman outside of the ring.
Muhammad Ali, "Umm Marciano... Marciano, umm, phew, ooh he hit hard. He hit you so hard *unrecognizable* folks in Africa."
Cosell, "But you think you could have beaten him too?"
Ali, "Well it a been rough, look Howard, I don't take nothing from these fellas especially those deceased. Marciano and I were good friends, but I truly think on my best day and his best day I would have beaten him, probably not knocked him out, I been sore, I think he was better than Joe Frazier I'd put it that way. I truly think he was better than Joe Frazier. I think it be even, he may have won - it's just hard, it's just up to the imagination.
Cosell, " You know you started out with so much braggadocio, now you're ending with humility."
Ali, "Yea, you got the last man Marciano. Showing him last, you did the right thing. He wasn't as great as me, wasn't as beautiful everyone knows that. But I don't know if I would have beat him with his style and my style. He could've out-pointed me, could've knocked me down. Did a computer fight with him when he was an old man just pretending and my arms were so sore just for joking with him. In his heyday he may have won, he probably wouldn't... that's up for the imagination. In the end I still think I'm the greatest of all time!"
Later, in part 6 Ali flips a script saying that *"a prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano."* He then goes on to his usual *"I'm the greatest"* after part 6. ((( *Why was the most important part removed?? Ali said, "a prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano"!!!* )))
ABC'S WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS {MUHAMMAD ALI VERSUS THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME; DAYTONA 500}
Summary:
This edition concludes the segment "Muhammad Ali versus the Greatest Heavyweight Champions of All Time" in which Howard Cosell and Muhammad Ali discuss the careers of great boxers.
In this final portion, Cosell, with world heavyweight champion Ali at Ali's Deer Lake, Pa., training camp, discusses fight films involving these fighters: Joe Louis, Max Schmeling, Billy Conn, Ezzard Charles, Pat Valentino, and Jersey Joe Walcott. Dave Diles reports with a sports news update on the final lap of the Daytona 500 automobile race as Bill Flemming narrates the tape of the finish. Ali and Cosell resume their discussion of fight films involving the following fighters: Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, and Rocky Marciano.
ABC February 15, 1976 Sunday 8 ½ hrs.
(Dave Diles explains the entire 8 ½ hrs. coverage *@ 1976 Daytona 500 - ABC Wide World of Sports coverage* from NascarAllOut)
((( Moral of the story is so much of what Ali actually said about Rocky has been removed!!! This valuable information has been suppressed for 48 years!!! Imagine all the uploaders that have been entering incorrect information for decades!!! The honest truth is Rocky uploaders removed 3 hours 28 minutes because it didn't align with their agenda!!! *The Fact is Ali Hated Marciano!!!* Why not just use Rocky's resume to defend him instead of hiding vital information? Well, because Rocky's resume is utter Horseshirt, that's why!!! Y'all can order copies *@ Archival Television Audio Inc.* just type in Muhammad Ali. 9889 is 90 MIN, 9889A is 30 MIN and 9890 is 90 MIN. That's 3 1/2 hours of Ali discussing Marciano Walcott Charles Moore Louis Conn. *"A prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano."* - Muhammad Ali, February 15 1976 )))
Most people openly admit that the versions of Charles, Moore and Walcott that he fought were far from prime (The Joe Louis and Lee Savold fights really doesn't even deserve to be brought up). So it isn't the quality of Rocky's competition that his reputation is based on among the greats, it is that famous record 49-0. If Rocky's 49-0 record is the basis of his greatness then the fighters on that record should be the very best that were available. But by my reckoning that is the furthest thing from the truth. Infact when you look at the highest ranked fighters of the era, and then you look at his record, it's scandalous how many he didn't fight. Many of the ones he DID choose to fight are just as scandalous.
Top fighters Marciano definitely should have fought that he didn't.
*1)* Harold Johnson
*2)* Oakland Billy Smith
*3)* Yolande Pompey
*4)* Curtis Hatchetman Sheppherd
*5)* Clarence Henry
*6)* Joey Maxim
*7)* Marty Marshall
*8)* Bob Satterfield
*9)* Jimmy Bivins
*10)* Lloyd Marshall
*11)* Nino Valdes
Those are just the definites, we could add many other names (like Tommy Jackson, Dan Bucceroni or even Bob Baker) that while not as good, are definitely better than some of the guys he DID fight that make up that "legendary" record. Guys like these;
Lee Epperson (Career Record 0-1)
Jimmy Weeks (Career Record 0-1)
Gilbert Cardone (Career Record 0-3)
John Edwards (Career Record 1-2)
Bill Hardeman (Career Record 1-7)
Humphrey Jackson (Career Record 4-3)
Johnnie Pretzie (Career Record 10-14)
Bob Jefferson (Career Record 3-10)
Gilley Ferron (Career Record 4-13)
Tommy DiGiorgio (Career Record 9-15)
Artie Donato (Career Record 7-13)
Harry Haft (Career Record 12-7)
James Connoly (Career Record 12-9)
Harry Bilazarian (Career Record 15-12)
Joe Dominic (Career Record 18-12)
Don Mogard (Career Record 20-16)
Jimmy Walls (Career Record 21-41)
Eldridge Eatman (Career Record 22-21) according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* Not only did Eldridge take a-dive vs. Rocky but he had just lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Why would a 26-0 boxer fight an F-LEVEL diver who had just lost 8 fights? It's clear as day Mafia Boss Carbo and underboss Al Weill cherry picked and padded Rocky's resume!
Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 9 wins 22 losses.
Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 7 wins 16 losses. *(Harold had just lost 10 fights in a row before diving against Rocky)*
Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 18 wins 29 losses.
Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 12 wins 16 losses.
Immediately *((same day))* after 170-lb diver Eddie Ross was supposedly KO'd by Marciano he drove from Rhode Island Providence to Quebec City Quebec -- 8 hr 15 min 465.9 mi via I-93 N inorder to fight 160-lb Billy Sparks.. ( *"Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day."* --BoxRec and Providence Journal ) Inspect Eddie's resume, it's hilarious!
None of these guys beat anyone of note! Many of these guys he even fought pretty far into his career when there were obviously alternatives. In light of this should this 49-0 record be as revered as it is to some?
*Nobody ever wants to discuss little Rocky's resume. I wouldn't either, have you seen it? It's no wonder so many Rocky fans are terrified to even look at it let alone discuss it. It's horrendous. Anything, and i mean anything to avoid his appalling F-LEVEL resume. I mean every champ fights their fair share of tomato cans but nobody, and i mean nobody fought as many F-LEVEL tomato can bums as he did! It's no joke, do the research:* Lee Epperson career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone career record 0 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards career record 1 win 2 losses *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman career record 1 win 7 losses *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson career record 4 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft career record 12 wins 7 losses *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly career record 12 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian career record 15 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson career record 3 wins 10 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell career record 7 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron career record 4 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato career record 7 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie career record 10 wins 14 losses *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis career record 32 wins 14 losses *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons career record 9 wins 22 losses *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri career record 18 wins 29 losses *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls career record 21 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry career record 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino career record 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic career record 18 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman career record 22 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate career record 12 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold career record 104 wins 45 losses *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato career record 56 wins 23 losses *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson career record 56 wins 27 losses *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor career record 31 wins 19 losses *D-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore career record 35 wins 17 losses *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans 18 wins 8 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross 19 wins 5 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn 20 wins 4 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds 53 wins 13 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards 24 wins 9 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo 16 wins 2 losses looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell 66 wins 14 losses looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews 90 wins 7 losses is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight?*
Roland LaStarza *C-LEVEL.* LaStarza Refused fights with Charles, Moore, Walcott, Louis, Valdez, Satterfield, Bivins, Maxim, Henry, Baker, Johnson, Pompey, Marshall, Smith, Sheppard etc. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much!
Rex Layne *C-LEVEL.* LaStarza vs. Layne reminds me of watching two midwest club fighters fighting a 4 rounder on an old ESPN card from Muncie, In. Two guys who were not well schooled, standing in front of each other acting like they were insulted if the other guy missed them with a punch. A lot of right hand leads, a lot of jabs with the rear foot leaving the canvas, little/no counter punching, just two guys willing to get hit but showing little boxing skill. Look how bad Rex Layne swings and misses. What an oaf.
Joe Walcott *C-LEVEL.* Walcott's losses is what elevated his status and built up his credentials, not his wins!!! The fact that Walcott was granted (6) title attempts in a (5) year span speaks volumes about how weak the Heavyweight division was at this time!!! And (4) of these title opportunities came immediately after a Walcott loss!!!
Archie Moore *A-LEVEL* MW/LH and *C-LEVEL* HW. Heck, Low Power 171/173 lb Charles beat him 3 times, 182 lb Patterson obliterated him, and 188 lb tiny cruiser Marciano smashed him. Every time Moore Stepped-Up in competition he got KO'D.
Ezzard Charles *A-LEVEL* LH and *C-LEVEL* HW. William Dettloff’s biography *'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'* documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, as early as 1951. This was 3 years before the Marciano fights, and it was also the same year he lost his title. Ezzard, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. Bert Sugar said, *"His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50's, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* --@ 35:01 ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano
*IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:*
*TOO MANY D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN*
*BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$.*
*OR BEING MADE TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD*
*THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET*
*OF BOXING DURING THE 1950's!!!*
*EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS*
*CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM*
*BCZ THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM.*
*THE DAY AFTER HE RETIRED HE IMMEDIATELY*
*ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT*
*WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED*
*HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS.*
*CRY AND SCREAM ALL YA WANT BCZ IT*
*CANNOT EVER SWEEP IT UNDER THE CARPET!!!*
*IT WAS REAL AND VERY WELL DOCUMENTED SO STOP LIVING IN DENIAL.*
@@Robert.Levi.MillerWhat you have stated is true, he fought in a time frame in history where there were complete lack of quality heavyweights, the man himself never weighed more than 190 lbs give or take.
I couldn’t imagine (as much as I respect Marciano) him boxing in the 70s 80s or when the megalithic giants (Lennox Lewis) hit the scene 90s the 2000s a sure no-no where there were monsters like the Klitschko brothers etc.
It’s all speculation, but I couldn’t imagine Rocky beating these tall men with 81 inch in reach and tremendous power Sonny Liston, George Foreman and even the master technician Larry Holmes stood at 6’4 with an 81 inch arm reach.
@@Robert.Levi.Miller ROCKY FOUGHT WARRIORS JUST AS LARRY HOLMES DID THAT WERE AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME!
Rocky pounded you relentlessly.....endless cardio, endless fury, all champion.
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
He wouldn't be in the top 10 in 1970.
@@bobbyzee54 Exactly but that's not what happened. Little Rocky actually went from 10th place in 1971 to 3rd place during the late 1970's. Can you believe that nonsense? All Time Great Heavyweight rankings are meaningless!!!!
@Stout_Krout-the amount of time you put into this, and the fact that I see it on almost every video about Rocky-do you have a life outside of hating on the guy? Have you ever been in a fight? Have you ever even thrown a punch? Get a life man
@@JoeSmith-dl9ok By way of comparison no°1 p4p Naoya Inoue has 67½″ reach, longer than light heavyweight Rocky's 67" reach. Inoue is 5' 5", Rocky 5' 9". Rocky fans continuously try to debate me. What's there to debate? How to magically make Rocky bigger? History cannot be changed, Charles Moore Matthews Marciano were light heavyweights, the overwhelming majority of that division was middleweights and light heavyweights moonlighting and/or masquerading as Heavyweights. It does not matter if Rocky's walking around weight was 210, bcz his average weight throughout his entire boxing career was only 178 to 186. He was light heavyweight period. I'd bet the farm on bantamweight Inoue to KO little Rocky in the 14th or 15th round.
Real legends respect one another. These guys earned their respect 🙏 🫡
A Rocky fan wrote, *"Rocky was not only a credit to the sport of boxing but he was a credit to the human race."* Oh really? Is that why he was dishonorably discharged for felony assault and robbery and, after he quit boxing he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousand and left them penniless. Some credit, he was a disgrace.
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES."* -- Lennox Lewis
*"NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING HAS A 190 LB MAN BEAT A TOP-NOTCH SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING CHAMPION."* -- Ring Magazine
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Marciano said his best weight he ever fought at was, "186lbs." Tyson was 220lbs at his fastest & best. About 235lbs at his heaviest. Rocky didn't have the speed or footwork to keep Tyson away or the skill or technique to keep him off. And saying that Rocky was tough… well,, tough can get you killed in the ring against a super power puncher with superior skills. This fight wouldn't last 2 rounds with a prime Tyson. And a non-prime Tyson would still be heavier and stronger. Rocky never faced anyone of merit who was near their prime. You wouldn't want Tyson to be your first. Bigger, faster, stronger. With malicious intent. No way Rocky would beat a prime Iron Mike.
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Zhang weighs 287. Fury 277. Ngannou 272. Makhmudov 260. Briggs 265. Ruiz 265. Grant 265. Foreman 260. Lennox 250. Vitali 250. Peter 250. Joshua 250. *Marciano 184 with 67" flyweight reach.* The average Heavyweight today weighs 250 with 80" albatross reach! *I know, i know Rocky fans still believe he could beat every Heavyweight that ever existed bcz he was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , bcz when he walked the earth shook.* Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67" (1.70 meters) incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison, today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7". And all the PEDs in the world ain't gonna help little dwarfism-arms grow longer. *I'm not being disrespectful, only realistic. Rocky was fantastic against light heavyweights but it would have been entirely different against topnotch Super Heavyweights.* Important. Willard/Carnera were also big but circus clowns!
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Little Rocky's conditioning is another manufactured fallacy and 235 lb Ibeabuchi vs. 225 lb Tua proved it when they threw a record breaking 1,730 haymakers in only 12Rounds. Ibeabuchi and/or Tua smashes little midget man in only seconds!!! The way Rocky fans go on and on about how he's the best conditioned and most powerful fighter that ever lived is an embarrassment to boxing. Give me a break. Only 184 lbs with flyweight reach, what a Joke.
*When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs. Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's.*
This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two Super Heavyweight warriors stood toe to toe exhibiting exceptional heart and endurance. Both boxers threw bombs and neither took a backward step.
After the fight Ibeabuchi complained of a headache and was taken to a hospital. He underwent several tests including an MRI scan but nothing abnormal was found and was immediately released. A week after the fight Tua had surgery to remove bone chips from his left elbow.
And Ike's in🎃sanity had nothing to do with anything he injested lik-roids, he was too paranoid of medications to take anything illegal. Ike was an anomaly, one in a million.
No heavyweight of his generation possessed more ability. He was a prodigy. He had amazing power. He had fierce determination and he had no fear of anybody, and he believed that he was the King, that nobody could beat him. He’d walk into the ring and you would almost have this vision of a bull coming at a matador with the steam coming out of the nostrils. Unfortunately, here was a very scary man both in and out of the ring. And it’s unfortunate that we’ll never know what could have been.
Bob Arum: "I don’t know, but it was the Heavyweight division and people love a puncher, and while he probably couldn’t have made what Mike Tyson made, but he would have been damn close. You know, hundreds of millions of dollars, sure. But again, again, that’s life, that’s life. You have to be a person, you have to be sane, you have to comport yourself with some kind of dignity and some kind of grace in order to realize that type of reward, and he couldn’t do it."
21 months later, 245lb Ibeabuchi confirmed that he was indeed the best up-and-coming heavyweight on the planet by knocking out undefeated 26-0 quick and slick southpaw Chris Byrd. Ibeabuchi was 20-0 with 15 knockouts, only 26 years old .. and he never fought again.
Byrd: "I got a little arrogant, thinking I’m unhittable. Cause I just thought, Oh man, he can’t hit me! I’m gonna slip everything. And, boom, just got caught. When I got knocked down the first time, I got, literally, the canvas woke me up. I was asleep before I hit the ground, and when I hit the canvas it woke me up. I asked the referee why he stopped the fight? What are you doing? "The bell rung!" But my bell was still ringing, that’s what was ringing, was my bell."
245lb Ike Ibeabuchi would have been the heir to Lennox Lewis throne. The Klitschko's would have been gate keepers if he was around. Ike was a Super Heavyweight with serious power, great speed, chin of iron, a boxer and a brawler, freakish stamina, threw punches in bunches and had a ridiculous work-rate with KO written all over his punches.
*Little 184lb-cruiser Rocky Marciano gets flattened by the 245lb prodigy Ike Ibeabuchi 10 out of 10 times and that's not debatable!*
There's no shame for a man to cry. We men are full of emotions, it's called being human, I'm having a cry now thinking of the old boxing greats that stood up and fought for a living so they could pay the rent and put food on the table, and this music is sad. Tough men with big hearts. Just the best.
I really appreciate you for this, whoever you are. My father taught me growing up that crying doesn’t make you less of a man, but it takes a real man to be able to cry and not feel ashamed. A real man doesn’t give a shit what anyone thinks about him, as long as he’s trying to be the best person he can. The world could truly benefit if more people shared our perspective, and I try to show my honest appreciation whenever I see it.
*By way of comparison bantamweight phenom Naoya Inoue has 67 ½″ reach, longer than Rocky's 67" reach. Inoue is 5' 5", Rocky 5' 9". Rocky fans continuously try to debate me. What's there to debate? How to make little Rocky Bigger?*
*Fury is a titan amongst mere mortals. A focused Fury is boxing evolved to it's highest state ever.* Transport Fury back to little Rocky's little era and he woulda had 149 wins 0 losses with 100% KO's!!! *Seriously though, if Rocky fought Fury he would need the use of a stepladder or Fury could fight on his knees.*
Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. The last undisputed Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history. Lennox avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his losses, he said, *"It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style,"* and *"Show me a Heavyweight champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."*
In my opinion Lennox Lewis is the GOAT. To hear 58 year old Lennox talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable.
The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: *Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant and WBC International HW champion David Tua* [[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]] *Other notable mentions; Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson*
How many prime topnotch
genuine 200+lbs Heavyweight
and 224+lbs Super Heavyweight
Champions did little 184 lb Rocky fight?
Imagine little Rocky trying to fight topnotch
Super Heavyweights with 80" to 86" albatross
wingspans and 30 to 100 lb weight advantages?
I'm sorry Heavyweight was only 175 lbs back then bcz it sure as hell ain't today. It's no wonder Emanuel Steward, an American boxer, trainer, and proven boxing Genius who trained 41 world champion fighters throughout his career said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight
*If size don't matter why hasn't there been another 184 lb Heavyweight champion since Little Rocky's Little era 4 generations ago?*
doesn’t matter the era, to be the best man out of all the men competing is a remarkable feat. tough bastards made of metal back then, too. the fact that he’s small made it all that much more impressive
it takes two great warriors to speak good of each other
Miller weighs - 305
Zhang - 285
Bakole - 285
Teremoana - 285
Ruiz - 275
Briggs - 265
Grant - 265
Fury - 262
Jalolov - 253
Parker - 250
Foreman - 220/250
Vitali - 250
Peter - 250
Joshua - 250
Whyte - 250
Ibeabuchi - 245
Lennox - 245
Kabayel - 245
Wladimir - 245
Dubois - 245
Sanchez - 245
Ruddock - 245
Hrgovic - 245
Itauma - 240
Wardley - 240
Bowe - 240
Ortiz - 240
Witherspoon - 235
Tua - 235
Dokes - 235
Bruno - 230
Morrison - 230
Cooney - 230
Thomas - 225
Usyk - 223
Lyle - 220
Tyson - 218
Holmes - 218
Wilder - 218
Ali - 218
Liston - 218
Frazier - 206
Dempsey - 187
*Moore - 175 lb Light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962.*
*Charles - 181 lb Heavyweight champion with lowest ever 42% KO's.*
*Marciano - 184 lb Heavyweight champion with 67" flyweight reach.*
Little Marciano's era was undoubtedly the smallest and weakest Heavyweight division in boxing history and that's not even remotely debatable!
William Dettloff's biography of Ezzard Charles explains how *Ezzard was ducked by champions in both the Middleweight and Light heavyweight divisions. As a result, he fought in the Heavyweight division despite never being a true Heavyweight.*
In 1937, at 16, Charles began boxing as an amateur. He soon won the 1937 Ohio AAU Welterweight championship, in 1938, he again won the state AAU amateur title as a Welterweight, and in 1939 he won the Ohio state Middleweight championship, and then the National Amateur Middleweight crown.
In 1940 he turned pro as a 147 to 160 lb Middleweight, and by 1941 Charles had risen, by age 19, to be the number two contender for the world Middleweight title. But William Dettloff documents how *Charles was told bluntly that Tony Zale would never give him a title shot.* So Charles, a natural 147 to 160 lb Middleweight, was *"FORCED"* into the 160 to 175 lb Light heavyweight division.
As a Light heavyweight, he defeated Moore not once, not twice, but three times - and *Gus Lesnevich, the Light Heavyweight champion refused to give him a title shot.* So Charles was *"FORCED"* into the 175+lbs Heavyweight division.
Low-power 182 lb Charles lost the title to Walcott by a seventh-round knockout in 1951. Ailing Charles tried to regain the Heavyweight Championship three times, losing once to Walcott in 1952 and twice to Marciano in 1954. *Charles, who, from 1951 on, was suffering from the symptoms of ALS. Charles was a spent force by that time.* - Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life by William Dettloff
*“The Heavyweight version of Charles,”* Dettloff sums up, *“would get a lot of good work done. But on the best day of his life, he was no more a Heavyweight than Ray Robinson. He never would be as good there as he was at Light heavy and below.”* - Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life by William Dettloff
*Post World War II for the next 15 years or so boxing was controlled by Mafia guys Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo. Both Walcott and Charles had mobbed managers, Walcott one Nick Bocchicchio and Charles a pair named Tom Tennas and Jacob Mintz. You did as they told you and you got the matches that you needed to advance into contender ranks.* - Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life by William Dettloff
Muhammad Ali, "Umm Marciano... Marciano, umm, phew, ooh he hit hard. He hit you so hard *unrecognizable* folks in Africa."
Cosell, "But you think you could have beaten him too?"
Ali, "Well it a been rough, look Howard, I don't take nothing from these fellas especially those deceased. Marciano and I were good friends, but I truly think on my best day and his best day I would have beaten him, probably not knocked him out, I been sore, I think he was better than Joe Frazier I'd put it that way. I truly think he was better than Joe Frazier. I think it be even, he may have won - it's just hard, it's just up to the imagination.
Cosell, " You know you started out with so much braggadocio, now you're ending with humility."
Ali, "Yea, you got the last man Marciano. Showing him last, you did the right thing. He wasn't as great as me, wasn't as beautiful everyone knows that. But I don't know if I would have beat him with his style and my style. He could've out-pointed me, could've knocked me down. Did a computer fight with him when he was an old man just pretending and my arms were so sore just for joking with him. In his heyday he may have won, he probably wouldn't... that's up for the imagination. In the end I still think I'm the greatest of all time!"
Later, in part 6 Ali flips a script saying that *"a prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano."* He then goes on to his usual *"I'm the greatest"* after part 6. ((( *Why was the most important part removed?? Ali said, "a prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano"!!!* )))
ABC'S WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS {MUHAMMAD ALI VERSUS THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME; DAYTONA 500}
Summary: This edition concludes the segment "Muhammad Ali versus the Greatest Heavyweight Champions of All Time" in which Howard Cosell and Muhammad Ali discuss the careers of great boxers. In this final portion, Cosell, with world heavyweight champion Ali at Ali's Deer Lake, Pa., training camp, discusses fight films involving these fighters: Joe Louis, Max Schmeling, Billy Conn, Ezzard Charles, Pat Valentino, and Jersey Joe Walcott. Dave Diles reports with a sports news update on the final lap of the Daytona 500 automobile race as Bill Flemming narrates the tape of the finish. Ali and Cosell resume their discussion of fight films involving the following fighters: Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, and Rocky Marciano. ABC February 15, 1976 Sunday 8 ½ hrs. ((( *Dave Diles explains the entire 8 ½ hrs. coverage @ 1976 Daytona 500 - ABC Wide World of Sports coverage from NascarAllOut* )))
((( Moral of the story is so much of what Ali actually said about Rocky has been removed!!! *This valuable information has been suppressed for 48 years!!!* Imagine all the uploaders that have been entering incorrect information for decades!!! The honest truth is Rocky uploaders removed 3 hours 28 minutes because it didn't align with their agenda!!! *The Fact is Ali Hated Marciano!!!* Why not just use Rocky's resume to defend him instead of hiding vital information? *Well because Rocky's resume is Horseshirt, that's why!!!* Y'all can order copies *@ Archival Television Audio Inc.* just type in Muhammad Ali. 9889 is 90 MIN, 9889A is 30 MIN and 9890 is 90 MIN. That's 3 1/2 hours of Ali discussing Marciano Walcott Charles Moore Louis Conn.. *"A prime Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles would've beat Marciano." - Muhammad Ali, February 15 1976* )))
Most people openly admit that the versions of Charles, Moore and Walcott that he fought were far from prime (The Joe Louis and Lee Savold fights really doesn't even deserve to be brought up). So it isn't the quality of Rocky's competition that his reputation is based on among the greats, it is that famous record 49-0. If Rocky's 49-0 record is the basis of his greatness then the fighters on that record should be the very best that were available. But by my reckoning that is the furthest thing from the truth. Infact when you look at the highest ranked fighters of the era, and then you look at his record, it's scandalous how many he didn't fight. Many of the ones he DID choose to fight are just as scandalous.
Top fighters Marciano definitely should have fought that he didn't.
*1)* Harold Johnson
*2)* Oakland Billy Smith
*3)* Yolande Pompey
*4)* Curtis Hatchetman Sheppherd
*5)* Clarence Henry
*6)* Joey Maxim
*7)* Marty Marshall
*8)* Bob Satterfield
*9)* Jimmy Bivins
*10)* Lloyd Marshall
*11)* Nino Valdes
Those are just the definites, we could add many other names (like Tommy Jackson, Dan Bucceroni or even Bob Baker) that while not as good, are definitely better than some of the guys he DID fight that make up that "legendary" record. Guys like these;
Lee Epperson (Career Record 0-1)
Jimmy Weeks (Career Record 0-1)
Gilbert Cardone (Career Record 0-3)
John Edwards (Career Record 1-2)
Bill Hardeman (Career Record 1-7)
Humphrey Jackson (Career Record 4-3)
Johnnie Pretzie (Career Record 10-14)
Bob Jefferson (Career Record 3-10)
Gilley Ferron (Career Record 4-13)
Tommy DiGiorgio (Career Record 9-15)
Artie Donato (Career Record 7-13)
Harry Haft (Career Record 12-7)
James Connoly (Career Record 12-9)
Harry Bilazarian (Career Record 15-12)
Joe Dominic (Career Record 18-12)
Don Mogard (Career Record 20-16)
Jimmy Walls (Career Record 21-41)
Eldridge Eatman (Career Record 22-21) according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* Not only did Eldridge take a-dive vs. Rocky but he had just lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Why would a 26-0 boxer fight an F-LEVEL diver who had just lost 8 fights? It's clear as day Mafia Boss Carbo and underboss Al Weill cherry picked and padded Rocky's resume!
Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 9 wins 22 losses.
Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 7 wins 16 losses. *(Harold had just lost 10 fights in a row before diving against Rocky)*
Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 18 wins 29 losses.
Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 12 wins 16 losses.
Immediately *((same day))* after 170-lb diver Eddie Ross was supposedly KO'd by Marciano he drove from Rhode Island Providence to Quebec City Quebec -- 8 hr 15 min 465.9 mi via I-93 N inorder to fight 160-lb Billy Sparks.. ( *"Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day."* --BoxRec and Providence Journal ) Inspect Eddie's resume, it's hilarious!
None of these guys beat anyone of note! Many of these guys he even fought pretty far into his career when there were obviously alternatives. In light of this should this 49-0 record be as revered as it is to some?
@@Robert.Levi.Miller be precise in your words
*Joe Louis said how he would fight Ali Feb.1967 Ring mag, "The kid has speed and there’s no one around to outbox him, and the opponent who tries is in his grave, especially in the middle of the ring. I’d see to it that Clay didn’t stay in ring center. No. He’d be hit into those ropes as near a corner as I could get him. If he stayed on the ropes he would get hurt. Sooner or later he’d try to bounce off, when he did he would get hurt more. I’d press him, cut down his speed, and bang him around the ribs. I’d punish the body. “Kill the body and the head will die”, Chappie use to tell me. It figures. Sooner or later he’d forget about that face of his and he would start dropping that left hand like he did against Mildenberger and Chuvalo. Those fellows got their openings by accident, and fouled it up. I would work for it and wouldn’t reckon to miss when it arrived. Cassius Clay is a nice boy and a smart fighter. But I am sure i would have licked him."*
Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was a great champion in his own era and a credit to the sport of boxing, however he boxed in a weak post war drained era where boxers from yesteryear ruled the roost. Since then, there has been so many other topnotch genuine authentic 220 to 290lb Heavyweights similar to:
Zhang
Fury
Lewis
Bowe
Vitali
Ibeabuchi
Parker
Anderson
Hrgovic
Sanchez
Ruiz
Joyce
Whyte
Holmes
Ali
Foreman
Ruddock
Witherspoon
Grant
Bruno
Liston
Tyson
Tua
Usyk
Wladimir
Ruiz
Ortiz
Dokes
Lyle
Thomas
Weaver
Briggs
Morrison
Cooney
Wilder
Joshua
Usyk
*I could "easily" list another Thirty!!!*
Marciano handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone who could pose much of a threat after coming so close to tasting defeat vs. LaStarza. So his next opponent was *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman who had lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Everybody knew it was a gimme fight for an undefeated fighter.
Then there was *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry
who had a career 71 wins 68 losses.
Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons
who had a career 8 wins 8 losses.
Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell
who had a career 4 wins 17 losses.
Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri
who had a career 13 wins 14 losses.
Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate
who had a career 11 wins 14 losses.
*It's clear as day Mafia Boss Frankie Carbo & associate Al Weill padded and cherry-picked Marciano's resume his entire (but very short) career.*
Lewis Watson, boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition saying: “Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition."
*Who did little 184lb-cruiser Rocky fight? He fought nobody notable until Journeyman Walcott who was at least 40 if not older. Walcott never had a birth certificate, he created one in his mid 20s. It's all in his biography, Chapter 9 page 71. Then there was light heavyweight Charles who had symptoms of Lou Gehrig's disease in 1951. It's all in his biography by William Dettloff. Rocky quickly finished his very short career against light heavyweight Archie Moore who was at least 42 if not older. Some "Heavyweight" resume, sad.*
Every champion fights bums. Nothing new.
Every champ fights their fare share of tomato cans. But nobody, and i mean nobody, fought as many F-LEVEL tomato can bums as Marciano did. It's no joke, do the research. Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
@@Robert.Levi.Millerleft out rocky went pro at 25 and started training at 23
Wow…what an incredible thing for Joe Lewis to say about Marciano…talk about class…wow!!!
178 to 188 lb tiny cruiser Marciano's opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire-CAREER record, not a partial record.* Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Pro boxers can easily be evaluated using grades *A, B, C, D, F* which has been used for decades:
Lee Epperson career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone career record 0 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards career record 1 win 2 losses *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman career record 1 win 7 losses *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson career record 4 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft career record 12 wins 7 losses *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly career record 12 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian career record 15 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson career record 3 wins 10 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell career record 7 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron career record 4 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato career record 7 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie career record 10 wins 14 losses *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis career record 32 wins 14 losses *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons career record 9 wins 22 losses *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri career record 18 wins 29 losses *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls career record 21 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry career record 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino career record 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic career record 18 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman career record 22 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate career record 12 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold career record 104 wins 45 losses *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato career record 56 wins 23 losses *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson career record 56 wins 27 losses *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor career record 31 wins 19 losses *D-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore career record 35 wins 17 losses *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans 18 wins 8 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross 19 wins 5 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn 20 wins 4 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds 53 wins 13 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards 24 wins 9 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo 16 wins 2 losses looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell 66 wins 14 losses looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews 90 wins 7 losses is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight?*
Roland LaStarza *C-LEVEL.* LaStarza Refused fights with Charles, Moore, Walcott, Louis, Valdez, Satterfield, Bivins, Maxim, Henry, Baker, Johnson, Pompey, Marshall, Smith, Sheppard etc. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much!
Rex Layne *C-LEVEL.* LaStarza vs. Layne reminds me of watching two midwest club fighters fighting a 4 rounder on an old ESPN card from Muncie, In. Two guys who were not well schooled, standing in front of each other acting like they were insulted if the other guy missed them with a punch. A lot of right hand leads, a lot of jabs with the rear foot leaving the canvas, little/no counter punching, just two guys willing to get hit but showing little boxing skill. Look how bad Rex Layne swings and misses. What an oaf.
Joe Walcott *C-LEVEL.* Walcott's losses is what elevated his status and built up his credentials, not his wins!!! The fact that Walcott was granted (6) title attempts in a (5) year span speaks volumes about how weak the Heavyweight division was at this time!!! And (4) of these title opportunities came immediately after a Walcott loss!!!
Archie Moore *A-LEVEL* MW/LH and *C-LEVEL* HW. Heck, Low Power 171/173 lb Charles beat him 3 times, 182 lb Patterson obliterated him, and 188 lb tiny cruiser Marciano smashed him. Every time Moore Stepped-Up in competition he got KO'D.
Ezzard Charles *A-LEVEL* LH and *C-LEVEL* HW. William Dettloff’s biography *'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'* documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, as early as 1951. This was 3 years before the Marciano fights, and it was also the same year he lost his title. Ezzard, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. Bert Sugar said, *"His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50's, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* --@ 35:01 ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano
There it is. Y'all are intelligent enough to make your own judgement about Rocky's *F-LEVEL* resume. Who did he fight? Walcott was 38/39 if not older, Moore 41, Charles had ALS and Louis was washed. To continue claiming he was the Greatest or even top 10 Greatest Heavyweight is absurd. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight
*"Name one, just one 'Prime' all time great boxer Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore Louis was 'Prime' when they fought him?"*
Louis bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky only *7* years
Walcott bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Charles bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Moore bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years
Savold bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky only *7* years
Matthews bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky only *7* years
LaStarza bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky only *7* years
Cockell bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Lowry bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years
1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)*
1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)*
2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1
3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1
4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)*
1947
5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1
6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)*
*1947-03-17 PROFESSIONAL Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, and March in 1948.*
1948 *(Rocky goes back to the amateurs)*
7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1
8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3
9. February George McInnis TKO-1
10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)*
11. March Fred Fischera KO
12. March George McGinnis W-3
*1948-07-12 (Rocky goes back to pro) Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano.. Don Cuoco and Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson because once Pro you cannot go back to the amateurs.*
Louis fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky quit at *49*
Walcott fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Charles fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49*
Moore fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Savold fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Matthews fought *(103)* times...little Rocky quit at *49*
LaStarza fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49*
Cockell fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49*
Lowry fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49*
Layne fought *(70)* times............little Rocky quit at *49*
Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times
Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times
Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times
Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times
Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times
Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times
LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times
Layne Lost *(17)* times and was KO'd *(6)* times
*Shocking isn't it? We never see these stats bcz they're always suppressed. Today's Genuine Super Heavyweights Miller Zhang Bakole Joshua Fury Ruiz Parker Kabayel Itauma Jalolov Dubois only have a combined (15) losses yet they're already being thrown under the bus for eternity but it's perfectly fine for little Rocky's little opponents to have a combined ((753)) losses!!!*
*HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:*
Lewis --------- *2*
Holmes ------ *6*
Ali -------------- *5*
Vitali ----------- *2*
Foreman ---- *5*
Tyson -------- *6*
Wladimir ---- *5*
Bowe --------- *1*
Liston -------- *4*
Louis --------- *3*
Holyfield -- *10*
Frazier ------- *4*
Norton ------- *7*
Tunney ------ *1*
Dempsey --- *6*
Johnson --- *11*
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- Lennox Lewis
Combined Walcott Charles Moore Louis already had *((409))* fights (Louis 68, Walcott 68, Charles 95, Moore 178) before facing Rocky. Those 4 Hall of Famers had already been fighting pro for a combined *((74))* years (Louis 17, Walcott 22, Charles 15, Moore 20) before they faced Rocky. Imagine all the dozens of wars aka trauma those four had already experienced. Add the 96 exhibition fights Louis had during his 4 year military service and that makes *((505))* fights not to mention Walcott and Louis came back after retiring for a combined *((6½))* years. Mathematically and scientifically those four were already ring worn and washed. As a matter of Fact all of Rocky's opponents combined lost an astonishing *((753))* times!!! Worst resume in boxing history!
The Best Ever Left This World.Sad Day In Boxing History.😢
Absolutely hilarious😆Who makes a commitment to defend little Rocky's honor 24/7 for their entire life? Gregory Rochette from Bevo Mill St Louis that's who. Get a life for Pete's sake smh.
1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)*
1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)*
2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1
3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1
4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)*
1947
5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1
6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)*
*1947-03-17 Professional Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, March 1948.*
1948 *(Rocky's back to amateur bouts)*
7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1
8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3
9. February George McInnis TKO-1
10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)*
11. March Fred Fischera KO
12. March George McGinnis W-3
*1948-07-12 Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano. Don Cuoco & Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson bcz once Professional you cannot go back to the amateurs.*
Louis Bravely fought *(17)* years...........Rocky only *(7)* years
Walcott Bravely fought *(23)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years
Charles Bravely fought *(20)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years
Moore Bravely fought *(27)* years.........Rocky only *(7)* years
Savold Bravely fought *(19)* years........Rocky only *(7)* years
Matthews Bravely fought *(19)* years...Rocky only *(7)* years
LaStarza Bravely fought *(14)* years.....Rocky only *(7)* years
Cockell Bravely fought *(10)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years
Lowry Bravely fought *(16)* years.........Rocky only *(7)* years
❤ Rocky Marciano❤ le meilleur pour tous les temps .
Miller weighs - 305
Zhang - 285
Bakole - 285
Teremoana - 285
Ruiz - 275
Briggs - 265
Grant - 265
Fury - 262
Jalolov - 253
Parker - 250
Foreman - 220/250
Vitali - 250
Peter - 250
Joshua - 250
Whyte - 250
Ibeabuchi - 245
Lennox - 245
Kabayel - 245
Wladimir - 245
Dubois - 245
Sanchez - 245
Ruddock - 245
Hrgovic - 245
Itauma - 240
Wardley - 240
Bowe - 240
Ortiz - 240
Witherspoon - 235
Tua - 235
Dokes - 235
Bruno - 230
Morrison - 230
Cooney - 230
Thomas - 225
Usyk - 223
Lyle - 220
Tyson - 218
Holmes - 218
Wilder - 218
Ali - 218
Liston - 218
Frazier - 206
Dempsey - 187
*Moore - 175 lb Light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962.*
*Charles - 181 lb Heavyweight champion with lowest ever 42% KO's.*
*Marciano - 184 lb Heavyweight champion with 67" flyweight reach.*
Little Marciano's era was undoubtedly the smallest and weakest Heavyweight division in boxing history and that's not even remotely debatable!
Ali put Rocky in the hospital for an entire week after their choreographed sparing match. *"Rocky entered the hospital for dehydration, torn bicep and exhaustion."* - Peter Marciano ... I've seen the Getty images and Rocky looked terrible! He was only 45, wearing a wig, had zero muscle tone and fat was hanging everywhere!
That's not all. Y'all can clearly see Ali was at least 6" taller! Don't believe for a second that Rocky was 5' 10". Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters) according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67 inches (1.70 meters)--incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7".
There is no question that little Rocky was superbly conditioned by the standards of the day; however, at his average fighting weight of 183 lbs/83 kg, between 178 and 188, he was not incredibly lean and he was not dehydrated; he was, in other words, a natural light heavyweight. He only weighed 170 when he boxed for the military. Frazier was a genuine 205 lb Heavyweight. Marciano was a genuine 184 lb tiny Cruiserweight. Usyk weighs 223 not 184. Zhang and Bakole weigh 285 not 184. Miller weighs 305 not 184. Weight matters and numbers don't lie!
Rocky Marciano was a destroyer of fighters. He overwhelmed his opponents with non-stop aggression and incredible punching power. Most fighters that stepped into the ring with Rocky were ruined or retired. Probably the most destructive fighting force under 190.
Archie Moore was 39, and on a 21 fight win streak, the longest of his career, all against younger opposition. He was prime. Joe Walcott was 38 and the Heavyweight Champion. He was also prime. Charles was 33, a year and a half older, and prime. Louis was 37, but had just won 8 straight. Rocky only had four years under his belt when he faced Joe Louis. Rocky had great wins over great fighters and champions.
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
I take you never boxed before, 33+ is not prime. All those champions had alot more miles on them. Way more amateur and pro fights. Rocky only had a 8 to 9 year career. In my opinion he loses to Moore, Walcott and Louis if any was under 33.
@@Robert.Levi.Millerwell put together. It doesnt really add up untill you look at the whole picture. Marciano was very limited technically speaking. his legend grew by engaging in bloody, entertaining, battles with no longer great fighters and is rightfully considered in the lower tier of the top 10 heavywights of all time
@@michaelmcginn3136 I can easily see him being lower tier of the top 20 Super Heavyweights in another 2 or 3 generations. It's inevitable. Don't get me wrong he was a great warrior but today's Super Heavyweights average 250 lbs with 80" reach. Little Rocky only weighed 178 179 180 181 & 182 for most of his fights.
37yr old Joe Louis had already been fighting *"17yrs"* with 68 fights and 96 fights before 2 million soldiers during his 4 year military service before facing the 184 lb light heavyweight. *Joe’s speed and punching power had all but evaporated, evidenced by him scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights.* Louis was a sitting duck. By contrast, Marciano was just entering his prime.
40yr old cruiser Walcott had already been fighting *"22yrs"* with 68 fights before facing the light heavyweight. Walcott had an abysmal 44% KO's. Walcott being granted *(6)* title attempts in a *(5½)* year span (1947-12-05 to 1953-05-15) proves how shallow the so-called "Heavyweight" division was at that time. *And (5) of his title opportunities came immediately after a loss!!!* This is important. *Giant Abe Simon put Walcott into retirement for 4 years 4 months, from 1940-02-12 to 1944-06-07. It's virtually impossible that Walcott was even remotely prime when he fought the 184 lb light heavyweight Marciano. Rocky himself said Walcott was only 90% of himself @ 'The Marciano Tapes' #3.* Walcott's most notable victories include wins over LH Charles, LH Maxim and LH Johnson. LH Charles lost *(25)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times. LH Maxim lost *(29)* times. LH Johnson lost *(11)* times and was KO'd *(5)* times. C-LEVEL Journeyman Joe lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end.
*Walcott lost (20) times and was KO'd (6) times.*
Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles had already been fighting *"15yrs"* with 95 fights before facing the light heavyweight. Charles had the lowest ever 42% KO's. *Charles was factually showing traces of Lou Gehrig's disease against Walcott in 1951.* It's in Ezzard's biography 'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life' by William Dettloff.
*Charles lost (25) times and was KO'd (7) times.*
42yr old light heavyweight Archie Moore had already been fighting *"20yrs"* with 178 fights before facing the light heavyweight. Archie said, *"Rocky Marciano was about 15 years younger than I was."* --@ Archie Moore Talks 2007TBears
Wouldn't that put grandfather Archie in his mid 40's?
*Moore Lost (23) times and was KO'd (7) times.*
179 lb light heavyweight Rocky Marciano only fought *"8yrs"* before he abruptly quit during his prime at only 31yrs of age. If you eliminate his secretive debut fight under the alias Rocky Mackjeanne, he actually fought *"7yrs"* bcz there was a 15 month gap between his 1st and 2nd fights. Read Mike Stanton to understand Rocky Mackjeanne vs. Les Epperson in Holyoke. Rocky Mackjeanne was shortened to Rocky Mack just before the fight.
*You have to respect every competitor for stepping into the ring but after studying all of his opponents, and who they fought, my gut instinct also says light heavyweight Rocky Marciano is one of the biggest frauds in "Heavyweight" boxing history.*
Joe Louis Barrow is the greatest heavyweights throughout history. Rocky went on to become one of the great heavyweights. RIP to both LEGENDS 🙏🏽
Miller weighs - 305
Zhang - 285
Bakole - 285
Teremoana - 285
Ruiz - 275
Briggs - 265
Grant - 265
Fury - 262
Jalolov - 253
Parker - 250
Foreman - 220/250
Vitali - 250
Peter - 250
Joshua - 250
Whyte - 250
Ibeabuchi - 245
Lennox - 245
Kabayel - 245
Wladimir - 245
Dubois - 245
Sanchez - 245
Ruddock - 245
Hrgovic - 245
Itauma - 240
Wardley - 240
Bowe - 240
Ortiz - 240
Witherspoon - 235
Tua - 235
Dokes - 235
Bruno - 230
Morrison - 230
Cooney - 230
Thomas - 225
Usyk - 223
Lyle - 220
Holmes - 218
Holyfield - 218
Tyson - 218
Wilder - 218
Ali - 218
Liston - 218
Frazier - 206
Dempsey - 187
*Moore - 175 lb Light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962.*
*Charles - 181 lb Heavyweight champion with lowest ever 42% KO's.*
*Marciano - 184 lb Heavyweight champion with 67" flyweight reach.*
Most people openly admit that the versions of Charles, Moore and Walcott that he fought were far from prime (The Joe Louis and Lee Savold fights really doesn't even deserve to be brought up). So it isn't the quality of Rocky's competition that his reputation is based on among the greats, it is that famous record 49-0. If Rocky's 49-0 record is the basis of his greatness then the fighters on that record should be the very best that were available. But by my reckoning that is the furthest thing from the truth. Infact when you look at the highest ranked fighters of the era, and then you look at his record, it's scandalous how many he didn't fight. Many of the ones he DID choose to fight are just as scandalous.
Top fighters Marciano definitely should have fought that he didn't.
*1)* Harold Johnson
*2)* Oakland Billy Smith
*3)* Yolande Pompey
*4)* Curtis Hatchetman Sheppherd
*5)* Clarence Henry
*6)* Joey Maxim
*7)* Marty Marshall
*8)* Bob Satterfield
*9)* Jimmy Bivins
*10)* Lloyd Marshall
*11)* Nino Valdes
Those are just the definites, we could add many other names (like Tommy Jackson, Dan Bucceroni or even Bob Baker) that while not as good, are definitely better than some of the guys he DID fight that make up that "legendary" record. Guys like these;
Lee Epperson (Career Record 0-1)
Jimmy Weeks (Career Record 0-1)
Gilbert Cardone (Career Record 0-3)
John Edwards (Career Record 1-2)
Bill Hardeman (Career Record 1-7)
Humphrey Jackson (Career Record 4-3)
Johnnie Pretzie (Career Record 10-14)
Bob Jefferson (Career Record 3-10)
Gilley Ferron (Career Record 4-13)
Tommy DiGiorgio (Career Record 9-15)
Artie Donato (Career Record 7-13)
Harry Haft (Career Record 12-7)
James Connoly (Career Record 12-9)
Harry Bilazarian (Career Record 15-12)
Joe Dominic (Career Record 18-12)
Don Mogard (Career Record 20-16)
Jimmy Walls (Career Record 21-41)
Eldridge Eatman (Career Record 22-21) according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* Not only did Eldridge take a-dive vs. Rocky but he had just lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Why would a 26-0 boxer fight an F-LEVEL diver who had just lost 8 fights? It's clear as day Mafia Boss Carbo and underboss Al Weill cherry picked and padded Rocky's resume!
Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 9 wins 22 losses.
Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 7 wins 16 losses. *(Harold had just lost 10 fights in a row before diving against Rocky)*
Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 18 wins 29 losses.
Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 12 wins 16 losses.
Immediately *((same day))* after 170-lb diver Eddie Ross was supposedly KO'd by Marciano he drove from Rhode Island Providence to Quebec City Quebec -- 8 hr 15 min 465.9 mi via I-93 N inorder to fight 160-lb Billy Sparks.. ( *"Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day."* --BoxRec and Providence Journal ) Inspect Eddie's resume, it's hilarious!
None of these guys beat anyone of note! Many of these guys he even fought pretty far into his career when there were obviously alternatives. In light of this should this 49-0 record be as revered as it is to some?
5' 9" 184 lb Rocky's legacy is predominantly built around his endurance and punches thrown per round. *To claim his endurance and punching prowess was better than everyone else's is utter nonsense.* Super Heavyweights Ibeabuchi and Tua threw a record breaking 1,730 punches! *"6' 6" 285 lb Bakole holds the #2 and #3 spot in terms of most total punches thrown by a Heavyweight in a single round, he's thrown 147 in one round before."* -( @1:20 Combat : Bakole vs Jared from CLIMAT RDC TV )
It's incredible the way so many Rocky fans try to turn him into something that he was not. I've read hundreds of fabricated story's. *The best one being his punch was equivalent to a 44 magnum bullet. If that were true why didn't he kill all of his opponents? Everyone on planet earth can clearly see Rocky's punching power is overrated. He hits his opponents hundreds of times with little to no effect.* Many of his opponents were fighting again the next day (Ross) or only one month later. Walcott Charles Moore Layne Matthews etc were all back in training one week later.
Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. The last undisputed Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history. Lennox avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his losses, he said, *"It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style,"* and *"Show me a Heavyweight champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."*
In my opinion 59 year old Lennox Lewis is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable.
The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: *Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant and WBC International HW champion David Tua* [[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]] *Other notable mentions; Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson*
How many prime topnotch
genuine 200+lbs Heavyweight
and 224+lbs Super Heavyweight
Champions did little 184 lb Rocky fight?
Imagine little Rocky trying to fight topnotch
Super Heavyweights with 80" to 86" albatross
wingspans and 30 to 100 lb weight advantages?
I'm sorry Heavyweight was only 175 back then bcz it sure as hell ain't today. It's no wonder Emanuel Steward, an American boxer, trainer, and proven boxing Genius who trained 41 world champion fighters throughout his career said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight
It's amazing the way Rocky fans belittle Lennox for losing twice yet they always fail to mention the *((753))* losses Rocky's opponents had? Why is that? For Pete's sake *((753))* losses is astronomical. Why so many? *"In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results-The real stumble-bums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time boxing, the less-talented fighter often gets most of the cash. He is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably and helping other fighters pad their records."* --The Ring Magazine by Andy Bowers
Rocky was not just a great champion but he came across as a stand up guy out the ring. Ring legend. Joe Louis back then was a national hero the heavyweight champion everyone knew and the great boxers admired him.
Louis was like 37 years old... It was old during that time. Rocky was 9-10 years younger. The training, nutrition and techniques was not like today.
@@KeboomrangEverybody fought pretty old during that time. Archie Moore fought till what, 49?
@@GrubKiller436 We overestimate legends, we like to put them on a high level in every sport. That's the magic of sport. If you take these legends and put them in the context of today's reality, I'm not sure they'd perform as well. But in our heart they are the best of the best
@@Keboomrang No, when we talk about greatness, we talk about what someone did for their time. These people more often than not paved the way for the next generations.
@@Keboomrangnah if you put the same old boxers in today's time with the improved training and stuff, they would eat them all
*A couple weeks before the bout Joe Louis was ordered to visit the white house where Franklin D. Roosevelt told him, "Joe, we need your muscles to beat Germany." Louis later admitted, "I knew i had to get Schmeling good. I had my own personal reasons and the whole damned country was depending on me."*
*June 22, 1938 with 71,000 people in Yankee Stadium Joe Louis met Max Schmeling and millions of folks around the world was listening by radio in English, German, Spanish and Portuguese. Here in America factories, businesses, families, everyone huddled around radios, all of America stopped for a moment.*
*Schmeling managed to throw only two punches entire fight. Joe landed blows to his head and body that could knock down a brick wall. Max screamed when Joe literally broke his back. With the world on the precipice of WWII, Louis hammered Hitler's symbol of Aryan supremacy with his 1938 destruction of Germany's Max Schmeling. It is considered among the most important moments in sports history.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat:
#1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record.
#2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why!
#3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed.
#4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol.
#5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.*
#7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad.
*Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.*
Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents.
*In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Kind, respectful, gentleman, outside the ring. Savage, unstoppable beast, inside it.
If little Rocky was *all-Powerful* why didn't he ever break any bones? *He never broke one rib, one nose, one eye-socket, one jaw or detached one retina.* He catches lightning in a bottle ONE time vs. Walcott and his fans automatically assume he's the most powerful puncher that ever lived. *Rocky's entire legacy has been built around that ONE KO!!!* Only reason Marciano's KO against Walcott was so great is bcz he caught Jersey Joe precisely on the point of his chin which snap-twisted his head around more than 90° cutting oxygen off instantaneously (one in a thousand shot). Prior to Walcott being KO'd little Rocky was being dominated by the past his prime 40yr old. Walcott was ahead on all scorecards 8-4, 7-5 and 7-4 by referee Charley Daggert. Besides that *ONE* lucky punch what other great KO's did he have? And don't mention Carmine Vingo as that story has been debunked by Rocky himself and his manager Al Weill. They both said, *"Carmine did not go unconscious until he hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring with no padding."*
@Evan_49 No it didn't. That's all been debunked. Get new material🤡
*Due to Joe Louis not having the punch to bother Marciano, Joe was never in the fight. Louis was devoid of everything in his offensive arsenal. Joe’s speed and power were just a memory. His accuracy and timing were long gone and his reflexes were no longer instinctive. Joe had nothing left to neutralize Rocky. Louis was a sitting duck. By contrast, Marciano was just entering his prime.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat:
#1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record.
#2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why!
#3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed.
#4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol.
#5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.*
#7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad.
*Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.*
Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents.
*In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Joe only had limited use of his right hand but it wasn't the Rock's fault.
It's testament to big Joe's popularity that he remained great mates with Rocky, Max Schmeling, Tommy Farr, Billy Conn and Ezzard Charles among others.
Personally I think a peak Joe Louis at 205lbs would stop the Rock
True respect, for two of the greatest!
Miller weighs - 305
Zhang - 285
Bakole - 285
Teremoana - 285
Ruiz - 275
Briggs - 265
Grant - 265
Fury - 262
Jalolov - 253
Parker - 250
Foreman - 220/250
Vitali - 250
Peter - 250
Joshua - 250
Whyte - 250
Ibeabuchi - 245
Lennox - 245
Kabayel - 245
Wladimir - 245
Dubois - 245
Sanchez - 245
Ruddock - 245
Hrgovic - 245
Itauma - 240
Wardley - 240
Bowe - 240
Ortiz - 240
Witherspoon - 235
Tua - 235
Dokes - 235
Bruno - 230
Morrison - 230
Cooney - 230
Thomas - 225
Usyk - 223
Lyle - 220
Holmes - 218
Holyfield - 218
Tyson - 218
Wilder - 218
Ali - 218
Liston - 218
Frazier - 206
Dempsey - 187
*Moore - 175 lb Light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962.*
*Charles - 181 lb Heavyweight champion with lowest ever 42% KO's.*
*Marciano - 184 lb Heavyweight champion with 67" flyweight reach.*
*"The Heavyweight version of Charles,”* Dettloff sums up, *“would get a lot of good work done. But on the best day of his life, he was no more a Heavyweight than Ray Robinson. He never would be as good there as he was at light heavy and below.”* -- written by William Dettloff author of "Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life" 2015
*"Ezzard was intentionally ducked by champions in both the middleweight and light heavyweight divisions. As a result, Charles was forced into the 175 lb Heavyweight division despite never being a true Heavyweight."* -- written by William Dettloff author of "Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life" 2015
Rocky fans always talk about Charles being only 33 when he fought Rocky but what they always fail to mention is that Charles was the #2 ranked middleweight in the world when he was only 19 years old. Charles had already been through numerous wars (trauma) throughout the entire 1940s. Charles fought Moore 3 times, Bivins 4 times, Maxim 5 times etcetera etc.
Low-power Charles with the lowest ever 42% KOs already had 95 fights and was ring-worn by the time he faced Rocky. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Rocky had those 95 fights? 41 year old middleweight/light heavyweight Moore already had 178 fights by the time he faced Rocky. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Rocky was 41 with 178 fights? *Per family request Moore's birthdate was recently changed at Wikipedia to 1913. Moore was factual 41 when he fought Rocky!*
Charles and Moore didn't even need to fight Rocky!!! They still would have entered the Hall of Fame for what they already accomplished in the middleweight and light heavyweight divisions!!! Moore fought in the middleweight division for 9 years!!! *Numbers do not lie and the numbers Prove that Rocky's era was the smallest and weakest Heavyweight division in boxing history!!!*
Rocky was just lucky. Didn't fight anyone worth a damn. Then he quit after a mere 7 years when everyone else fought 15 to 25 years. *5' 9" 184 lbs with flyweight reach. Give me a break.* In today's Super Heavyweight world Rocky's 49-0 is meaningless!
*"Charles lost the title to Walcott in 1951. Ailing Charles tried to regain the Heavyweight title three times, losing once to Walcott in 1952 and twice to Marciano in 1954. Charles a spent force by that time, who, from 1951 on was suffering from the symptoms of ALS."* -- written by William Dettloff author of "Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life" 2015
William Dettloff’s biography *'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'* documents that Charles first felt weakness and some numbness in his limbs as early as 1951. This was 3 years before the Marciano fights and it was also the same year he lost his title. Ezzard, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. Bert Sugar said, *"His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50's, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* --@ 35:01 ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano
Humble, polite and decent inside and outside the ring. Some sports people past and present could take a leaf out of his book. No steroids, just pure art of determination. When Joe Louis was sick in hospital and couldn't pay his bills Marciano quietly paid for it.
Emanuel Steward was an American boxer, trainer and proven boxing Genius who trained 41 world champion fighters throughout his career. What did Emanuel have to say about Marciano? He said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight
*If size don't matter why hasn't there been another 184 lb Heavyweight champion since Little Rocky's Little era 4 generations ago?*
*"'BECAUSE SIZE DOES MATTER, LIKE IT OR NOT"'!!!*
*6' 3" 223 lb 78" reach genuine Heavyweight Usyk vs. little 5' 9" 184 lb 67" tiny reach Rocky. Usyk master boxer, little Rocky face first slugger. Who wins? Little Rocky vs. Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lennox, Ibeabuchi, Vitali, Joshua, Parker, Kabayel, Zhang and Bakole,, who wins?*
@bobbyd5276 at that time and at that era he was a champion. Today he'd probably be like everyone else roided to the gills and probably a champion still.maybe a few losses.
@bobbyd5276 everyone has an opinion. For his shortcomings no one had a tank like he did. It easy to say this and that.
The Rock didnt cry, he wept. There is a difference
THE ONLY UNDEFEATED, UNDISPUTED, PERFECT HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION IN BOXING HISTORY.
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times
Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times
Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times
Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times
Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times
Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times
LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times
Louis Bravely fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky Quit at *49*
Walcott Bravely fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky Quit at *49*
Charles Bravely fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky Quit at *49*
Moore Bravely fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky Quit at *49*
Savold Bravely fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky Quit at *49*
Matthews Bravely fought *(103)* times.. .little Rocky Quit at *49*
LaStarza Bravely fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky Quit at *49*
Cockell Bravely fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky Quit at *49*
Lowry Bravely fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky Quit at *49*
Louis Bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky Only *8* years
Walcott Bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky Only *8* years
Charles Bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky Only *8* years
Moore Bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky Only *8* years
Savold Bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky Only *8* years
Matthews Bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky Only *8* years
LaStarza Bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky Only *8* years
Cockell Bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky Only *8* years
Lowry Bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky Only *8* years
*Shocking isn't it?? We never se these stats bcz they're always Suppressed.* Imagine if today's Heavyweights Fury & Usyk had losing records lik that?? *Heck,, they'd be thrown under the bus immediately if they only had "'ONE"' loss,, let alone 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 or even 68!!!*
*((* If a fighter *today* had *((20))* losses and was KO'd *((6))* times he'd be considered an undercard *F-LEVEL* Journeyman!!! Correct?? OH,, but, but, but it's okay for Jersey Joe Walcott bcz two-faced Marciano fans say it is *))*
*HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:*
Lewis --------- *2*
Holmes ------ *6*
Ali -------------- *5*
Vitali ----------- *2*
Foreman ---- *5*
Tyson -------- *6*
Wladimir ---- *5*
Bowe --------- *1*
Liston -------- *4*
Louis --------- *3*
Holyfield -- *10*
Frazier ------- *4*
Norton ------- *7*
Tunney ------ *1*
Dempsey --- *6*
Johnson --- *11*
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- *Lennox Lewis*
@Scarlett_Grace_Monroe
@@StudentofsweetscienceWOW!!! You really dropped so.e knowledge here! Where did you acquire such detailed stats??? ! Check it Out! Ciao!!!
@@StudentofsweetscienceWOW!!! I thought I had a wealth of boxing knowledge. You really dropped so.e knowledge here! Where did you acquire such detailed stats? Very impressive!! Check it Out! Ciao!!!
Only an idiot would call the greatest fighter in history over-rated. There has never been anyone who can compare to Marciano. No one hit harder, no one had his stamina, no one could ever hurt Marciano. The absolute GOAT.
He is not the greatest fighter does not hit the hardest nor does he have the most stamina and he could be hurt nor is he the goat
sonny liston laughed it
Ali enters the chat. Plus a 100 others. Love the Rock but yeah he’s not the greatest for beating tomato cans and old fighters. Sorry…
I actually agree with you these clowns don’t have a clue maybe sonny liston might have beat him be a great fight that
If 178 to 184 lb tiny cruiser Rocky was *all-Powerful* why didn't he ever break any bones? *He never broke one rib, one nose, one eye-socket, one jaw or detached one retina.* If he did i assure u every Rocky fan would be talking about it!! Right?
Marciano catches lightning in a bottle ONE time vs. Walcott and his fans automatically assume he's the most powerful puncher that ever lived.
Rocky never had 43 KO's, half were TKO's. Count them. There's a Huge difference between KO's and TKO's. LaStarza and Cockell were still standing, correct?
Rocky's entire legacy has been built around that "one" KO against a guy that was at least 40yrs of age, if not older. *Just before Walcott gets KO'd where are both of his hands? They are at waist level. Why? Bcz he's worn out and his reflexes are shot. Father time waits for no one!*
Roland LaStarza with all his supposed "Broken Bones" and "Ruptured Blood Vessels" only had minor surgery to remove tiny bone chips from his elbow just like David Tua did after his fight with Ibeabuchi. Elbow arthroscopy is a minimally invasive procedure. It's a common boxing injury yet y'all act as if both his arms were decapitated. Besides, Roland said, *"I already had elbow problems before i even fought Marciano."* I have the article.
Here's the newspaper article about Layne's tooth: *"Rex Layne lost a left upper tooth..the tooth broke at the gums when Marciano caught the Utahn in the mouth with a full right hand. Layne was taken immediately after the fight to a New York dentist to have the teeth X-rayed and also for treatment on a broken tooth." Layne's handlers said, "the tooth went out with the gumshield."* ...So, Rex only sustained *"ONE"* broken tooth!!!
This is important. *If all Layne's front teeth were sheared off at the gum's it would have been impossible for Layne to fight Charles exactly 3 months later.* Folks break their teeth all the time skateboarding or slipping and falling on the ice. One broken tooth, what's the big deal?
My uncle was a professional boxer and in elementary school i had dreams of becoming one as well. Then by the time i hit middle school i could tell how something wasnt right with him (punch drunk) and decided to not go down that path. Sparring is enough head injury for me.
What is your dads name and how many fights did he have?
Marciano got the Holmes treatment for beating the people's idol. That is what happened.
He fought the absolute best of his era. Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, and Archie Moore were not washed up.
Ezzard Charles is an all time goat who managed to get a win over Joe Louis and he was always competitive with Jersey Joe Walcott; which despite Walcott's age, manage to beat a prime Charles. You don't get to do that sort of stuff if you're not the very best in your division. It is an absolutely invalid excuse to say Walcott was old.
As for Archie Moore, Marciano fought him when he was 41. He was an extremely consistent fighter all the way up to age 49, only losing to the very best of the best in every moment of his career. Saying that Archie Moore was washed up when Marciano fought him is also absolutely invalid.
Ezzard Charles was shopworn and clearly past his prime. He was getting beaten by B rate fighters like Valdez. Even in the 3rd Walcott fight he gets outworked by Jersey Joe before the knockout. He was nowhere near prime when he fought Rocky.
Walcott himself was nearly 40 years old, fighting his very last fights against Rocky.
Moore was 40. No matter how you slice it that is ancient.
Sure these guys were not washed up but they were all not remotely close to their primes. Their skills got them by.
Rocky is good but that 49-0 makes him massively overrated.
Would he even beat a prime Ezzard Charles or Walcott? Considering how bad they were out-boxing him despite their diminished athleticism, I don't think so.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef Except for the fact that Ezzard Charles was in his prime when he lost to Jersey Joe Walcott.
That completely demolishes everything you just said.
It always has. It always will. And I will keep bringing it up.
Because time and time again, you have absolutely no comeback.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef Archie Moore having consistent wins till he was 49 completely destroys your attempt to make it seem like Archie Moore put up poor performances at 40.
"No matter how you slice"
No matter how you slice it, you use "no matter how you slice it" and "I don't need to present arguments" as your words to evade logic.
@@GrubKiller436 I said he was not washed up. I said he still had more left in the tank.
I think Charles, Moore and Walcott are good wins, just not great wins.
@@GrubKiller436 It's unfortunate for you that fight footage is available and we can see he is not in his prime.
Prime Charles beat Walcott twice.
He had slipped out of his prime by then. Walcott was out scoring him before the knockout by a wide margin. You know, the fighter that Ezzard was consistently out pointing in the previous fights.
You can go watch the second fight and compare it.
He also gets beat by Valdez later on and out pointed by Harold Johnson. Is that still prime Charles to you?
He starts getting loss after loss around the period he fought Marciano. He clearly didn't have much left in the tank and the onset of ALS that would paralyze and kill him certainly didn't help him when fighting.
Charles's prime ended when Walcott took him out.
After that he was good, but never as good.
If he was, he would have beaten Walcott in their fourth fight.
What made Rocky great was his humility!
Is that why he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands and left them penniless
Combined Walcott Charles Moore Louis already had *((409))* fights (Louis 68, Walcott 68, Charles 95, Moore 178) before facing Rocky. Those 4 Hall of Famers had already been fighting pro for a combined *((74))* years (Louis 17, Walcott 22, Charles 15, Moore 20) before they faced Rocky. Imagine all the dozens of wars aka trauma those four had already experienced. Add the 96 exhibition fights Louis had during his 4 year military service and that makes *((505))* fights not to mention Walcott and Louis came back after retiring for a combined *((6½))* years. Mathematically and scientifically those four were already ring worn and washed. As a matter of Fact all of Rocky's opponents combined lost an astonishing *((753))* times!!! Worst resume in boxing history!
@@D.B.Cooper-747 I give it to you that this was an error regarding becoming unfaithful once his career finished and tarnish his reputation. However, when we talk about the ring he was humble in that he never really talked all brash and he tried to measure his words. If you can find an interview with him speaking arrogantly regarding boxing then please share that with me.
Joe Louis was 137 years old.....137 YEARS OLD...
to be the man, you gotta beat the man. Rocky beatem all
Joe Louis was dumb for coming out of retirement for this fight. He was 37. Back then, being 37 was like being close to 50 now. Dumb decision. Unless it was solely for the payday, which I understand. But for some reason I don't believe that was his reason.....which is why it makes no sense to me.
Lol, nonsense. 37 was not like 50 back then.
Unfortunately it was for a payday, he was very bad with finances.
@@DM-uz7lfjust a super giving man! really good guy
He would never beat a Tyson, Foreman, Frazier or Ali.
This reminds me of Holmes v Ali. Both just did what they had to do. It was heartbreaking for both. Holmes and Marciano were both undefeated. What are they supposed to do lose? Rest in peace Marciano! Gotta do what you gotta no matter how much it hurts you.
Holmes was an arrogant prick though, Rocky Idolised Louis, he was distraught backstage after the fight
@@highjim7778 yeah, but for me it’s about resumes. He was undefeated, idk is he supposed to lose? 20 title defenses and fought for years and years at the same level. I see your point but it’s boxing man, you sign the contract you gotta do what you gotta do. Rocky was torn up so was Larry, it’s just part of the game.
@@highjim7778 Larry homes also idolized Muhammad Ali and sparred with him for years. So I don’t see how this is any different from Rocky. Holmes majorly looked up to Ali
What was the age difference please 🤔
What? 😅
Lewis would if knocked rocko out in his prime easy
Nothing but class
Is that why he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands and left them penniless
Louis bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky only *7* years
Walcott bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Charles bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Moore bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years
Savold bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky only *7* years
Matthews bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky only *7* years
LaStarza bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky only *7* years
Cockell bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Lowry bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years
1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)*
1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)*
2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1
3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1
4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)*
1947
5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1
6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)*
*1947-03-17 PROFESSIONAL Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, and March in 1948.*
1948 *(Rocky goes back to the amateurs)*
7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1
8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3
9. February George McInnis TKO-1
10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)*
11. March Fred Fischera KO
12. March George McGinnis W-3
*1948-07-12 (Rocky goes back to pro) Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano.. Don Cuoco and Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson because once Pro you cannot go back to the amateurs.*
Louis fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky quit at *49*
Walcott fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Charles fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49*
Moore fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Savold fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Matthews fought *(103)* times...little Rocky quit at *49*
LaStarza fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49*
Cockell fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49*
Lowry fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49*
Layne fought *(70)* times............little Rocky quit at *49*
Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times
Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times
Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times
Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times
Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times
Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times
LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times
Layne Lost *(17)* times and was KO'd *(6)* times
*Shocking isn't it? We never see these stats bcz they're always suppressed. Today's Genuine Super Heavyweights Miller Zhang Bakole Joshua Fury Ruiz Parker Kabayel Itauma Jalolov Dubois only have a combined (15) losses yet they're already being thrown under the bus for eternity but it's perfectly fine for little Rocky's little opponents to have a combined ((753)) losses!!!*
*HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:*
Lewis --------- *2*
Holmes ------ *6*
Ali -------------- *5*
Vitali ----------- *2*
Foreman ---- *5*
Tyson -------- *6*
Wladimir ---- *5*
Bowe --------- *1*
Liston -------- *4*
Louis --------- *3*
Holyfield -- *10*
Frazier ------- *4*
Norton ------- *7*
Tunney ------ *1*
Dempsey --- *6*
Johnson --- *11*
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- Lennox Lewis
Louis had to fight because of money issues. I believe it was something to do with taxes or some other bullshit.
I cannot believe there are people out there who thinks a 186 lbs prime Marciano would defeat 225 lbs prime Muhammad Ali! Muhammad Ali would have chopped Marciano to pieces! Ali would have destroyed Marciano with his speed!
I agree with you but have to be pedantic and say a peak Ali weight about 215lbs.
Henry Cooper and Sonny Banks both weighed something similar to Rocky and managed to drop the young Ali.
*Joe Louis is widely regarded as one of the greatest and most influential boxers of all time. He reigned as the world heavyweight champion from 1937 until his temporary retirement in 1949. He was victorious in 25 consecutive title defenses, a record for all weight classes. Louis had the longest single reign as champion of any boxer in history.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat:
#1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record.
#2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why!
#3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed.
#4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol.
#5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.*
#7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad.
*Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.*
Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents.
*In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
@@Robert.Levi.Miller ah, and todays boxing is okay? no "mafia" no nothing....no doping, no nothing...yeah go back to bad boy
Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67" (1.70 meters) incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison, today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7"
Little Marciano quit boxing at only 31 years of age! Larry Holmes fought till he was 52. Holmes was born in 1949. Ad 31 years to 1949 = 1980. Holmes had exactly *(39)* fights after 1980. How many fights did little LH Archie Moore have after age 31? One hundred fifty?
How many fights did Louis have after the age of 31?
How many fights did Walcott have after the age of 31?
How many fights did Charles have after the age of 31?
*Well that pretty much sums up exactly why little Rocky never lost a fight.*
I find it shocking how Rocky fans cannot understand this concept. Liston fought till he was 50 (or older). Foreman fought till he was 48.
Had he continued fighting like everyone else did he undoubtedly would have lost. Instead the little 184lb-cruiser avoided being embarrassed and severely punished by a younger and stronger boxer as has always happened in the history of boxing!
Little Rocky's younger brother, Peter, said,
*"ROCKY WAS EMBARRASSED OF LOSING"*
Well for Pete's sake it's no wonder he never lost,
*he was a "'QUITTER"'!!!!*
Joe Louis was over the hill. If he was 10 years younger, he would've beaten Marciano
Joe Louis was the most powerful and fastest punching heavyweight boxer in ring history. His great hand speed, especially in combination, was awesome to behold. He had a powerful jab, threw every punch perfectly and with wasteless accuracy. His right cross, thrown short and straight, was sheer dynamite. The "Brown Bomber" never ducked anyone as his record 25 title defenses attests to. Of those 25 successful defenses, 21 were won by knockout, 17 of those were ten counts! 5 in the first round! He also knocked out six men who held the Heavyweight Championship of the World. From 1934 to 1949, when he first retired as champion, his record was 60-1 with 51 knockouts. He held the Heavyweight Championship for a record of nearly 12 years.
Both real men. Always come to fight. Joe wouldn't have had it any other way. Boxing is a brutal and honest sport. That's why most of us will only observe.
My head hurts just watching Marciano highlights
Jous was 137 years old at that time
He was 36 heavyweight champion today is 37
Rocky made only 6 defences of his title.
1. Against the man he took the title from, 38 year old Joe Walcott.
2. Two fights against former middleweight and light heavyweight Ezzard Charles, who was the first man to take Rocky the distance in a 15 round title fight.
3. Against Roland La Starza.
4. Against Don Cockell
5. And his last defence was against 41 year old former light heavyweight Archie Moore.
Who were the previous 43 opponents Rocky fought to pad up his record ? Who were these guys ?
This is why Muhammad Ali, in spite of his loses, has a better resume than Marciano. Because after Ali made a comeback after nearly 4 years in exile, in which he was previously undefeated, he beat Oscar Bonavena, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, George Foreman, George Chuvalo and Ernie Shavers.
*Prime for prime it’s an entirely different story. Marciano would have had to deal with Louis’s explosive and hard jab, set-up uppercuts, finishing hooks and right hands. Rocky would have carried the fight to Joe, and instead of meeting him at center ring and trading, Louis would have inched back and countered Marciano and looked to fight him on the inside with his back to the ropes. Louis needed little room to punch and could get off in tight quarters, he would have been able to punch inside and beat Marciano's round punches to the mark all night.*
By then he learned to keep that left up after jabbing too after the first Schmelling fight. Good, cause if not against Rocky 😬
@@user-hv6sb3kg9gRocky would not take advantage of Louis's left hand placement. Schmeling was a master technician counter puncher with great hand speed.
Marciano was a mauler. He would never play countering games with Louis, and unlike Max, he'd try to slug it out to no avail.
Joe Louis was the most powerful and fastest punching heavyweight boxer in ring history. His great hand speed, especially in combination, was awesome to behold. He had a powerful jab, threw every punch perfectly and with wasteless accuracy. His right cross, thrown short and straight, was sheer dynamite. The "Brown Bomber" never ducked anyone as his record 25 title defenses attests to. Of those 25 successful defenses, 21 were won by knockout, 17 of those were ten counts! 5 in the first round! He also knocked out six men who held the Heavyweight Championship of the World. From 1934 to 1949, when he first retired as champion, his record was 60-1 with 51 knockouts. He held the Heavyweight Championship for a record of nearly 12 years.
Sorry but Salvador Sanchez🇲🇽tenía el mismo o más IQ y stamina en el boxeo!Grandes los 2
*The 37yr old Brown Bomber faintly resembled the well-oiled and efficient fighting machine he was during the late 30’s. He had nothing left offensively but a semblance of his left jab. He was slow of both hand and foot and needed to have his feet set perfectly inorder to get off. His punching power had all but evaporated, evidenced by him scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat:
#1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record.
#2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why!
#3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed.
#4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol.
#5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.*
#7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad.
*Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.*
Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents.
*In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
"Hey when you get in that ring, it doesn't matter how old you are, you'd better be ready, because guys like Rocky Marciano will put you on your @$$.
Joe came out of retirement for what????
"Consider that in Dec. 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano finishing a distant 7th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 7th in 1962 how does he propel to the top 5, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Marciano? This is a key point. Boxing historians Herb Goldman and Charley Rose rated Marciano at # 8, "Mr. Boxing, himself," Nat Fleischer rated him at # 10 and John McCallum's Survey of Old Timers (survey of a group of historians and writers) had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Marciano in their lifetime thought he was a top 7 all time Heavyweight and 68 years have passed since Rocky retired."
*Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!! How DARE you use facts, logic, common sense, and hard evidence in a discussion like this instead of talking about how you FEEL and getting upset at anyone who doesn’t affirm your feelings? That’s cheating! 😂
Joe in his prime would've won. Taking nothing away from rocky
Charles Walcott Moore Savold Lowry Layne Cockell Wilson Shkor Walls Henri Simmons Eatman Muscato and Besore lost *(("'411'"))* times. Charles *((25))* times. Walcott *((20))* times. Moore *((23))* times. Savold *((45))* times. Lowry *((68))* times. Layne *((17))* times. Cockell *((14))* times. Wilson *((27))* times. Shkor *((19))* times. Walls *((41))* times. Henri *((29))* times. Simmons *((22))* times. Eatman *((21))* times. Muscato *((23))* times and Besore *((17))* times. *Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
*In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Joe Louis's 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced little 184lb-cruiser Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat:
#1) 196lb Cesar Brian (Decision) Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record.
#2) 191lb Freddie Beshore (KO) 28-10-1 ...5' 9" Freddie had an abysmal 24% KO's. Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* We all know why!
#3) 187lb Omelio Agramonte (Decision) I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles again after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked Charles bcz they knew Joe was washed.
#4) 194lb Andy Walker (TKO) 17-8-7 Andy had an abysmal 17% KO's lol. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses lol.
#5) 188lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#6) 190lb Lee Savold (KO) Savold lost 45 fights and was KO'd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." *These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.*
#7) 197lb Cesar Brian -- Decision *AGAIN* -- Why Twice? What happened to much better opponents Baker, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Matthews, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard? Where did LaStarza and Moore disappear to? Why not Charles or Walcott again? We all know why!
#8) 179lb Jimmy Bivins (Decision) 5' 9" light heavy Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Sad.
*Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the (5) decisions. A prime Joe would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.*
Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Carbo and Weill had complete control over Rocky and carefully selected his opponents.
*In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Don Turner said, *"Marciano was the hardest puncher i ever seen."* Oh really, when was Don ever hit by Marciano??? Archie Moore rated Sheppard and Durelle as the hardest punchers. Emanuel Steward rated Lewis and Wladimir as the hardest punchers. 84yr old Don Turner is entitled to his opinion just as George Foreman has his opinion. Earnie Shavers also has an opinion just as Ron Lyle and Riddick Bowe have theirs.
*Why wasn't trainer Don Turner out there looking for another power-punching midget to rule the Heavies??? Instead he chose 6' 7" 250-lb Michael Grant who had an incredible 86" reach!!! Think, people. Think.*
Marciano had his last fight in New York 1955. Turner was born in 1939 and raised in Cincinnati. Don was only 15 years old. He had no money and was over 600 miles away. *His opinions are based on hearsay and film, in other words the same as ours!!!*
Turner said, "I have no idea what my father did. We were on welfare and lived in the Cincinnati projects four blocks from Ezzard Charles." Turner explains how Charles and Marciano were always his favorites @ A Beautiful Sickness: Reflections on the Sweet Science, by Thomas Hauser, 2001- page's 72 & 74.
Here's some of the top rated trainers of all time;
Cus D' Amato
Eddie Futch
Freddie Roach
Ignacio "Nacho"
Beristain
Lou Duva
Emanuel Steward
Angelo Dundee
Jack Blackburn
Teddy Atlas
Roger Mayweather
Gil Clancy
Ray Arcel
BUT NO DON.. WON'T SEE DON TURNER ANYWHERE!!!!
Vitali fans, Wladimir fans, Fury fans, Ali fans, Foreman fans, Frazier fans, Lewis fans, Holmes fans, Tyson fans, Bowe fans, Ibeabuchi fans *NEVER* discuss Don Turner,, only Rocky fanboys ever discuss Turner's opinionated speculations and believe it as the gospel truth.
Don lost all credibility when he convinced Holyfield that the cutman is "the biggest scam in boxing." Needless to say the lack of a cutman was the determining factor that cost Holyfield the Heavyweight championship against Michael Moorer.
Evander Holyfield fired him. Michael Grant fired him. Everyone gave Don the-boot. Fighters only worked with him as a last resort. Emanuel Steward and other trainers despised him.
Turner also said, "Charles was never the same after his first fight with Marciano." *That is 100% False!!!* He was never the same after all his wars with Walcott, Moore, Maxim, Valdez, Johnson, Bivins, etcetera. Ezzard Charles was already showing symptoms of ALS before he ever faced Marciano -@- William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life
Notice all the *'required'* Quotes from Rocky fans. Quotes are not factual. They're speculations and/or opinions. Ali doesn't have to be defended through opinionated Quotes. His resume speaks for itself. Holmes resume speaks for itself. Lennox resume speaks for itself. Klitschko resume speaks for itself. On the other hand little 184lb Rocky's resume *"'MUST BE"'* defended through quotes bcz his resume is embarrassing once ya study it. It's filled with middleweight and light heavy F-LEVEL tomato cans and ring worn has beens. What are y'all scared of? Research it!
Quotes are spec·u·la·tion /ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/ noun, and speculation is the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.. Similar: opinion, hypothesize, guess, surmise, notion, prediction, forecast, gamble, venture, risk. Just bcz Ali said, "Rocky *"'MIGHT'"* have beaten me," *does that make it true???* Might does *not* mean *would have.* It means *maybe* or *possibly.* Ali was showing respect...Or like how you would say about a kids punch...Whew that little boy can knock me out...ooo he hits hard. Holmes said, *"Rocky couldn't carry his jockstrap,"* does that make it true???
I really would have liked to have heard what Marciano and Louis had to say. I might have been able to but for that damned artsy-fartsy background music.
Italian and only undefeated heavy weight CHAMP.
Marciano was not just undefeated, Marciano has the all time highest knockout percentage in the heavyweight division. Higher percentage than Wilder, Tyson, Foreman, Louis, Liston, Frazier, Lewis, Shavers, and Klitscho, just to remind of some of the assasins he led in KO percentage.
His Suzy Q was so feared, his stance and technique so unorthodox, that many of the techiques he used have been widely copied. His height and weight make people dismiss him as being able to be a champion in different eras. I think that is misguided thinking. There are some TH-cam videos out there that delve into his techniques and they are fascinating. The way he dealt with larger opponents and their jabs and reach advantage was fascinating. Marciano didn't take alot of punishment. There was a reason for that and it had to do with the fear of his power and his unique inside game and unique defense. He countered with all of his weight leaning into his punches and was rarely countered himself. He should have been knocked cold, conventional thinking says, with the way he put his forward weight into nearly every punch, but Marciano was rarely in danger. He is underrated by most moden boxing pundits because of his reach and weight. These folks discount his astonishing power and ring skill.
Rocky Marciano the greatest heavyweight ever beaten in 49 fights of his career with 43 ko.
They like to wait until great fighters get old and beat them....True cowards
"Consider that in Dec. 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano finishing a distant 7th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 7th in 1962 how does he propel to the top 5, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Marciano? This is a key point. Boxing historians Herb Goldman and Charley Rose rated Marciano at # 8, "Mr. Boxing, himself," Nat Fleischer rated him at # 10 and John McCallum's Survey of Old Timers (survey of a group of historians and writers) had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Marciano in their lifetime thought he was a top 7 all time Heavyweight and 68 years have passed since Rocky retired." *Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
Fun Fact : Joe Louis was 38 years old and had been retired for two years. Marciano was 28 years old.
The best slugger style boxer ever in History
Tyson is!
Typical Rocky Marciano formula was taking fights with older and retired boxers. The guilt may stem from defeating the fighter who once fought for national pride but in those days, more than today, if you didn't fight you didn't eat so quite helpful to older fighters after all.
Shit made me tear up
Me too😭
How would Rocky do against Tyson in his prime?
He was his hero
A Rocky fan wrote, *"Rocky was not only a credit to the sport of boxing but he was a credit to the human race."* Oh really? Is that why he was dishonorably discharged for felony assault and robbery and, after he quit boxing he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousand and left them penniless. Some credit, he was a disgrace.
This has been disproven
A peak Louis would have dispatched rocky in 5 rounds
Rocky could beat all the boxers of our history by sure !
Yall really proud of Marciano beating an old Joe Louis😂😂.
Yes Louis was older, but he was also coming off of a 8-win fight streak.
Louis still hardly lost at all in his career.
But he still was not in the best time to fight rocky marciano cause he was way to old
@@DylanRoberson-p9v Not at his best, but he was still a great fighter.
8 wins so what
I feel like rocky prolly would’ve had a harder time beating joe Louis if Louis wasn’t as old as he was
@@DylanRoberson-p9vAll of Marciano big named fighters that he fought were past their primes including Joe Walcott 36 and Archie Moore 39. He fought Ezzard Charles who already fought over 90 fights before facing Rocky he struggled to beat them. None of those fighters were in their primes.
Why do you have to use loud background music 😮
The GOAT of the heavyweights
184-lbs ain't Heavyweight
@@Robert.Levi.Miller u r thick he was heavyweight champ WTF 🤔🤔
Spoken like a true casual.
I agree Joe Lewis was and always will be.
Yes, Joe Louis is the greatest.
Marciano 27 Joe Lewis 38 years of age that about sums it up
Greatest heavy of all time, fought anyone avoided no one
I don’t feel sorry for Joe Lewis he thought he was going to beat Rocky and that’s why he came back and he got destroyed 😂 no one dragged him in the Ring !
Rocky numero uno
Il più forte di tutti in tutti i tempi ❤❤❤
Rocky was the best heavyweight ever
Rocky Marciano was great champion there's no doubt about that true Hall of famer but he wouldn't have a chance against the big heavyweights of the 70s 80s 90s and even today's big boxers.
Rocky is not in my top 100 heavies.
Your list is total shite!
Every champ fights their fare share of tomato cans. But nobody, and i mean nobody, fought as many F-LEVEL tomato can bums as Marciano did. It's no joke, do the research. *Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
He whipped a old tired Joe Louis
Not a real victory
How could Marciano have possibly cleaned out his division when he only defended his title (6) times? Little Rocky ducked Marty Marshall, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard just to name a few. He didn't even come close to cleaning out his division like Louis, Liston, Ali and Lennox did. *Little flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were *"prime"* when they fought Marciano?
You have to respect every competitor for stepping into the ring but my gut instinct also says Rocky is one of the biggest frauds in boxing history. One way or another
In my humble opinion, Marciano was a white man he was Italian not a black man that's why he was way over rated.
If Valdez would of best Archie Moore rocky and Valdez would of fought !
@@STEVEREEVES4444 What about the others???
*Marciano Ducked Marty Marshall, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard. He knew he'd have to eventually confront Cleveland Williams, Johansson, Patterson, Liston, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin and Ellis. We could've found out how Marciano would've done against all these guys had he not "UP-N-QUIT" during his Prime after a measley (7) years while everyone else was fighting (15) to (25) years!! For Pete's sake Marciano was only 31 in his last fight.*
Jeune joe louis l aurais massacre😂😂😂😂😂😂
Joe Louis was 75 years old!
Coming to America
It was true though IRS literally gave him no choice but to come out of retirement and fight again
@@DylanRoberson-p9v he fought 8 times before he lost to Marciano
Yep. And Rocky was ducking Sonny Liston I've heard. Why didn't he fight Floyd Patterson?
@@JP-rl4bc I don't think you did your research. You have the internet. Use it.
You forgot to mention he was the smallest heavyweight in history and he would still have beat them cause he beat anybody that came his way😮
Original Fight: October 26 1951
Marciano Vs Louis
Copy Of Fight: February 20 2020, October 9 2021
Fury Vs Wilder 2, 3
you compare 2 diamonds vs 2 fakes diamonds
Not comparable at all
i believe Rocky would rise to whatever challenge presented to him...thats why he was a great champion. he also had a granite chin and he was deceptively powerful.
make no mistake joe louis was at the end of his career...but he was a dangerous, frightening individual. and a great champion. people saying rocky beat an old man fighting for money do not understand what these men were made of. great fighters have a competitve spirit few of us can comprehend. anyone who writes off joe louis as an old man at the time of that fight is a fool. he was an old man who could beat anyone on earth right now. these heavyweights today couldnt spar with him.