Not saying he'd beat Drago (his psychic powers are probably gonna be too much for anyone) but Asterion Moloc of The Minotaurs gave a custodes pause when confronting him during The High lords attempted coup against Roboute. A custodes thinking to himself "can I take this guy?" Is one hell of a compliment to his prowess and Aura as a warrior. Thulsa Kane of The Executioners is also a baller, there isn't much lore on him (or his chapter really) but what is there basically paints them as "The Space Wolves, but actually cool." When Huron called upon his oath to aid The Astral Claws, Thulsa Kane went himself to honor it (might be misremembering but I think it's said somewhere he abdicated his position as chapter master before going to The Maelstrom in order to prevent his chapter being declared traitors) And as soon as The Astral Claws proved themselves unworthy of loyalty, our Man Kane wreaked a swift and brutal vengeance upon them, literally on the spot killed all The Astral Claws present and left without a word. Seriously big dick energy IMO.
Azrael gets done dirty. Have one of the most successful masterships of the dark angels chapter AND he beats Karn the betrayer in a fight only to end up in b tier cause GW wrote him to be powned. Should be an A tier tactician considering his success against the black legion, ghazgul, among other campaigns
It really brings to light what an absolute mess the lore and powerlevels are. Kinnda makes one wish for a soft reboot in the lore that follows its own rules and logic.
Tu'Shan, while being "an exemplar of the chapter" as a salamander. the man is a beast. Leading the 1st company The Fire Drakes. He was praised by Commander Dante during the second war of Armageddon after defending the Last Bridge of the River Stygies against 1000 Ork Speed Freaks for 3 days and 4 nights. was respected by Yarrick. and especially humiliated Captain Vinyard of the Marines Malevolent after destroying an entire refugee camp by raking the dirt with him. Despite The Salamanders being my favorite chapter, Tu'Shan is not the best. But he is more than just a Salamander. He is badass.
Tu'Shan of the Salamanders is respected by Dante, and there is a nice little story about the Blood Angel & Salamander conference. He was praised by Commander Dante during the Second War for Armageddon after his stoic and marathon defence of the Last Bridge of the River Stygies against 1000 Ork Speed Freaks for 3 days and 4 nights. The famed Commissar Yarrick heaped praise upon him too. Further, he humiliated Captain Vinyard of the Marines Malevolent after destroying an entire refugee camp by raking the dirt with him. The Salamanders are simply a stoic chapter, who does what they have to do, and don't have the advantage of the Ultramarine "gloss" that GW has. I personally think that his judgement that Primaris Marines are not ready to be "full Salamanders", so putting them in the 7th (Scout) company was genius. For that reason, and that the Salamanders being a non-standard chapter, he deserves to be respected at least. He is far more than a carbon copy Salamander, he is the ultimate Salamander. Compassionate, but when roused to anger, he burns with all the fire of an Ancient High Dragon, rather like Ancalagon the Black! I apreciate that you put him in C, but I do think he simply suffers from lack of "screen time". If Matt Ward wrote him, he would be at least A tier. Dante SHOULD be top tier, and I agree Drago is written as Insanely good. But I do think, for my own personal Pride, that he deserves not to be be capped by CALGAR who simply has the advantage of being constantly pumped by GW. I agree that the writing can be abysmal.
Chapter MATERS ? 😃 No surprise from me Helbrecht is my main man, he took down a Deamon Prince with just his combat blade ! ! ! And generalship ? Helbrecht is not only a general, he is an Admiral of an entire "legion" that spans an entire galaxy ! ! !
Even though I read more crime/horror 40k books, and I'm not well-versed in horus heresy; I enjoy these "free form" videos -without a script. I like hearing your thoughts off the cuff.
Tyberos is dope, but his size has been vastly overstated by the community, he's according to the text itself "a head taller" than other marines, and that is in his custom terminator armor. We see marines from The Sons of Anteous and Black Dragons chapters who are bigger than that in normal Mark 7 armor in the deathwatch books. Tyberos being primarch sized is a myth spawned by the community. Asterion Molech is bigger and he's in the same book as Tyberos lol.
Ngl I didn’t remember moloch being bigger than him. Size wise I remember tibby being quite tall and broad compared to normal marines. That said he is in modified terminator armor so if he is compared to that with his size then he’s pretty big. I gather he’s nearly the size of a blocky boy dread.
@@Arceolis 40k theories did a pretty good video on Tyberos' size recently, he's not that big. He pretty much went through the text and compared it to scale with other stuff.
@@intergalacticimperialist9670 I’ll have to go check that out. I knew he wasn’t as big as people overindulge on just knew he was quite big. Did they compare him to the primaris marines by any chance?
@@Arceolis As for Asterion Moloch the only good indication of his size we have is his encounter with a custodes, whom the chapter master dwarfed. I could be mistaken about him being "bigger' but they are at least comparable. There are some interesting theories people have about The Minotaurs, some lore tidbits potentially imply they're some form of stable Thunder Warrior. Obviously that's not canon or confirmed in any way but it would certainly explain their disposition among other things.
One note I’d like to make about Dante is that space marines age and as they age they gradually lose more and more of their physical strength. Sigismund (the greatest astartes warrior to ever live) was far past his prime when he lost his duel agaisnt Abaddon. Dante is VERY far past his prime and even then he is still one of the best astartes warriors in the setting. Kinda makes you wonder what he was like as a warrior in his youth. Becoming a primaris has restored a bit of his youth but not much he is still very VERY old.
Does Carab Culln the Risen still count as a chapter master after they stuck him in a leviathan? Probably gives him a significant boost when it comes to combat lol
@@MrTumnus1987 I'm sure they just handle the paperwork and admin because Culln cant do it with his massive claw-hand, I bet he is still the true chapter master though lol
Asterion mawloc of the minotaurs, is bonkers, a named custodian was not sure if he could take mawloc. Mawloc has a spear with a melta on the end, a storm shield, is in modified TARTAROS terminator armour and has unmatched speed for an Astartes. The minotaurs were made during the 21st cursed founding. Mawloc seems to die and come back a lot (it's up to speculation whether this guy is a custodes, something experimental, or his memories are saved somehow, and uploaded to the next Astartes when mawloc dies) , His chapter are the personal lap dogs of the high lords, with thought to be iron warriors gene seed. Mawloc could take Tyberos, 6-7/10 times,9/10 times, kill anyone else on this list, and would fight Kaldor Dreigo to a standstill. Mawloc is also ancient and has TONs of experience.
In defence of the "bad generalship" entries - it's much easier to be at least decent commander if there's a lot of institutional knowledge that is passed down while you're still a butterbar as well as having entire library of training manuals in one book - yes, I'm talking about Ultramarines and their training pipeline. As for Gabriel Seth, while he's not a great strategist, he has good grasp on political side of warfare, which he uses side by side operational skills to achieve three goals - first, position his troops where they are most effective, second - manoeuvre in a way that causes the least casualties and third - conduct engagements in a way that causes least amount of backlash due to friendly fire incidents. It's not ideal, but he tries to play the best with shit cards in his hand.
The thing about Draigo vs Guilliman is...doesn't the fact that Mortarion is a daemon give Draigo the upper hand? Not his actual combat skill alone, but his skill coupled with the fact that he is an Emperor's-geneseed anti-daemon weapon in the flesh. So I'm not sure you can translate that one-to-one into a fight against Guilliman, because Draigo wouldn't be getting any sort of anti-daemon buffs against Guilliman in that fight. Your thoughts?
James Workshop should lean on the chapter masters who font have a lot of lore behind em, such as Dessian and Jubal, and say they’re grand strategists who don’t necessarily lead from the front but they bring something unique to their chapter in terms of leadership. That way we get less ‘chaptermasterism’ and also expand their lore. Well or i guess give some lore. Itd be nice
Giving my boy Calgar Some extra credit for combat, he did rip the head off a lord of skulls in his “comic book” after dropping an epic 90’s one liner 😂
Could you do custom chapters reviews and help on lore and writing ? I have a full custom chapter of salamander and would love some help on how to write them. Thks !
Howdy North, what about Captain General Trajann Valoris? And before you start, yes the Custodes are space marines. They are better made and more refined. But space marine none the less.
They aren’t space marines. Literally it’s written into their lore they aren’t space marines….they don’t have the organs & literally aren’t space marines….
There’s a lot one can say about this but the biggest thing is the lore needs to be tweaked so characters like kaldor draigo get toned down and we get more information about other chapter masters. In terms of Draigo…. listen i’m a Grey Knights fanboy so of course I think he should be the best chapter master. Problem is Matt Ward being Matt Ward. The average Grey Knight is (or at least should be) better than the average marine so it stands to reason their chapter master should be able to take out every other chapter master (bar maybe specific characters in a fight and give some of them a run for their money in terms of strategy (these guys are designed to go up against daemons of Tzeentch). Now something I want to say that will be very controversial is that I think Draigo beating a primarch isn’t necessarily a bad idea in theory. There need to be a few stipulations though. The primarch shouldn’t be ascended/be a daemon primarch and the primarch in question should one that’s weaker in a fight. So him beating Lorgar, Alpharius, Omegon, and the like if they weren’t daemon primarchs/ascended (going on a hypothetical here). Him beating daemon primarch Mortarion no that’s bs. Reason I say this is sure Grey Knights are stronger than the other marines but because I like to think that the noble shard of Magnus is passed down somehow from one supreme grand master to the next which gives said marine the ability to go toe to toe with a primarch. this is definitely my bias showing but I like it. And at this point I don’t think there’s any prinarch around that he’d be able to take down without a ton of help.
Cool video bud. I just wish GW left the Carcharodons alone to FW. Read the IA Badab Books and leave the Red Tithe etc in the bin. Don't know where the size thing came from for Tyberos. They are cold and caluclating, the end justify the means. Also, biggest marine I think fluff wise is Silas Alberec, who is ogryn size.
I would put my custom chapter's chapter master in C tier. Combat ability is good enough for an experienced captain and generalship is questionable, considering the entire chapter is a bit off the deep end and I don't have a whole lot of lore for him, yet. They're the kind of guys who hear "Exterminatus" and ready their melta guns and drop pods.
Not saying he'd beat Drago (his psychic powers are probably gonna be too much for anyone) but Asterion Moloc of The Minotaurs gave a custodes pause when confronting him during The High lords attempted coup against Roboute. A custodes thinking to himself "can I take this guy?" Is one hell of a compliment to his prowess and Aura as a warrior. Thulsa Kane of The Executioners is also a baller, there isn't much lore on him (or his chapter really) but what is there basically paints them as "The Space Wolves, but actually cool." When Huron called upon his oath to aid The Astral Claws, Thulsa Kane went himself to honor it (might be misremembering but I think it's said somewhere he abdicated his position as chapter master before going to The Maelstrom in order to prevent his chapter being declared traitors) And as soon as The Astral Claws proved themselves unworthy of loyalty, our Man Kane wreaked a swift and brutal vengeance upon them, literally on the spot killed all The Astral Claws present and left without a word. Seriously big dick energy IMO.
The custodes vs minotaur pause writing wise was dogshit
The Space Wolves used to be cool, 2nd/3rd edition they were fine. The thunder wolf cav and sleigh are utterly cheestastic.
Azrael gets done dirty. Have one of the most successful masterships of the dark angels chapter AND he beats Karn the betrayer in a fight only to end up in b tier cause GW wrote him to be powned. Should be an A tier tactician considering his success against the black legion, ghazgul, among other campaigns
It really brings to light what an absolute mess the lore and powerlevels are. Kinnda makes one wish for a soft reboot in the lore that follows its own rules and logic.
Tu'Shan, while being "an exemplar of the chapter" as a salamander. the man is a beast. Leading the 1st company The Fire Drakes. He was praised by Commander Dante during the second war of Armageddon after defending the Last Bridge of the River Stygies against 1000 Ork Speed Freaks for 3 days and 4 nights. was respected by Yarrick. and especially humiliated Captain Vinyard of the Marines Malevolent after destroying an entire refugee camp by raking the dirt with him.
Despite The Salamanders being my favorite chapter, Tu'Shan is not the best. But he is more than just a Salamander. He is badass.
Tu'Shan of the Salamanders is respected by Dante, and there is a nice little story about the Blood Angel & Salamander conference. He was praised by Commander Dante during the Second War for Armageddon after his stoic and marathon defence of the Last Bridge of the River Stygies against 1000 Ork Speed Freaks for 3 days and 4 nights. The famed Commissar Yarrick heaped praise upon him too. Further, he humiliated Captain Vinyard of the Marines Malevolent after destroying an entire refugee camp by raking the dirt with him.
The Salamanders are simply a stoic chapter, who does what they have to do, and don't have the advantage of the Ultramarine "gloss" that GW has. I personally think that his judgement that Primaris Marines are not ready to be "full Salamanders", so putting them in the 7th (Scout) company was genius. For that reason, and that the Salamanders being a non-standard chapter, he deserves to be respected at least. He is far more than a carbon copy Salamander, he is the ultimate Salamander. Compassionate, but when roused to anger, he burns with all the fire of an Ancient High Dragon, rather like Ancalagon the Black!
I apreciate that you put him in C, but I do think he simply suffers from lack of "screen time". If Matt Ward wrote him, he would be at least A tier. Dante SHOULD be top tier, and I agree Drago is written as Insanely good. But I do think, for my own personal Pride, that he deserves not to be be capped by CALGAR who simply has the advantage of being constantly pumped by GW.
I agree that the writing can be abysmal.
Chapter MATERS ? 😃
No surprise from me Helbrecht is my main man, he took down a Deamon Prince with just his combat blade ! ! !
And generalship ? Helbrecht is not only a general, he is an Admiral of an entire "legion" that spans an entire galaxy ! ! !
Even though I read more crime/horror 40k books, and I'm not well-versed in horus heresy; I enjoy these "free form" videos -without a script. I like hearing your thoughts off the cuff.
Tyberos is dope, but his size has been vastly overstated by the community, he's according to the text itself "a head taller" than other marines, and that is in his custom terminator armor. We see marines from The Sons of Anteous and Black Dragons chapters who are bigger than that in normal Mark 7 armor in the deathwatch books. Tyberos being primarch sized is a myth spawned by the community. Asterion Molech is bigger and he's in the same book as Tyberos lol.
Ngl I didn’t remember moloch being bigger than him. Size wise I remember tibby being quite tall and broad compared to normal marines. That said he is in modified terminator armor so if he is compared to that with his size then he’s pretty big. I gather he’s nearly the size of a blocky boy dread.
@@Arceolis 40k theories did a pretty good video on Tyberos' size recently, he's not that big. He pretty much went through the text and compared it to scale with other stuff.
@@intergalacticimperialist9670 I’ll have to go check that out. I knew he wasn’t as big as people overindulge on just knew he was quite big. Did they compare him to the primaris marines by any chance?
@@Arceolis As for Asterion Moloch the only good indication of his size we have is his encounter with a custodes, whom the chapter master dwarfed. I could be mistaken about him being "bigger' but they are at least comparable. There are some interesting theories people have about The Minotaurs, some lore tidbits potentially imply they're some form of stable Thunder Warrior. Obviously that's not canon or confirmed in any way but it would certainly explain their disposition among other things.
@@Arceolis Yeah I have to rewatch it myself but I believe he did
Love these videos keep up the great work. You should do a tier list of games Games Workshop make haha.
One note I’d like to make about Dante is that space marines age and as they age they gradually lose more and more of their physical strength. Sigismund (the greatest astartes warrior to ever live) was far past his prime when he lost his duel agaisnt Abaddon.
Dante is VERY far past his prime and even then he is still one of the best astartes warriors in the setting. Kinda makes you wonder what he was like as a warrior in his youth. Becoming a primaris has restored a bit of his youth but not much he is still very VERY old.
Does Carab Culln the Risen still count as a chapter master after they stuck him in a leviathan? Probably gives him a significant boost when it comes to combat lol
No, Casan Sabius and Sirae Karagon have shared duties of leading the chapter after Culln’s fall and interment into the dreadnought chassis.
@@MrTumnus1987 I'm sure they just handle the paperwork and admin because Culln cant do it with his massive claw-hand, I bet he is still the true chapter master though lol
Asterion mawloc of the minotaurs, is bonkers, a named custodian was not sure if he could take mawloc. Mawloc has a spear with a melta on the end, a storm shield, is in modified TARTAROS terminator armour and has unmatched speed for an Astartes. The minotaurs were made during the 21st cursed founding. Mawloc seems to die and come back a lot (it's up to speculation whether this guy is a custodes, something experimental, or his memories are saved somehow, and uploaded to the next Astartes when mawloc dies) , His chapter are the personal lap dogs of the high lords, with thought to be iron warriors gene seed.
Mawloc could take Tyberos, 6-7/10 times,9/10 times, kill anyone else on this list, and would fight Kaldor Dreigo to a standstill.
Mawloc is also ancient and has TONs of experience.
In defence of the "bad generalship" entries - it's much easier to be at least decent commander if there's a lot of institutional knowledge that is passed down while you're still a butterbar as well as having entire library of training manuals in one book - yes, I'm talking about Ultramarines and their training pipeline.
As for Gabriel Seth, while he's not a great strategist, he has good grasp on political side of warfare, which he uses side by side operational skills to achieve three goals - first, position his troops where they are most effective, second - manoeuvre in a way that causes the least casualties and third - conduct engagements in a way that causes least amount of backlash due to friendly fire incidents. It's not ideal, but he tries to play the best with shit cards in his hand.
lol, valrak wont be happy 😂 great show again north👍
The thing about Draigo vs Guilliman is...doesn't the fact that Mortarion is a daemon give Draigo the upper hand? Not his actual combat skill alone, but his skill coupled with the fact that he is an Emperor's-geneseed anti-daemon weapon in the flesh. So I'm not sure you can translate that one-to-one into a fight against Guilliman, because Draigo wouldn't be getting any sort of anti-daemon buffs against Guilliman in that fight. Your thoughts?
James Workshop should lean on the chapter masters who font have a lot of lore behind em, such as Dessian and Jubal, and say they’re grand strategists who don’t necessarily lead from the front but they bring something unique to their chapter in terms of leadership. That way we get less ‘chaptermasterism’ and also expand their lore.
Well or i guess give some lore. Itd be nice
Giving my boy Calgar Some extra credit for combat, he did rip the head off a lord of skulls in his “comic book” after dropping an epic 90’s one liner 😂
Could you do custom chapters reviews and help on lore and writing ? I have a full custom chapter of salamander and would love some help on how to write them. Thks !
Also is it possible in the lore to have a dreadnought chapelain ?
One faction id like to see you talk about in some form of way would definitely be the exorcists really cool faction in so many ways
Gabriel Angelos
Problem with Dante is he nearly had the whole of the Blood Angels destroyed.
You should do a part two with the ones that were still at the bottom of the screen.
Howdy North, what about Captain General Trajann Valoris? And before you start, yes the Custodes are space marines. They are better made and more refined. But space marine none the less.
They aren’t space marines. Literally it’s written into their lore they aren’t space marines….they don’t have the organs & literally aren’t space marines….
There’s a lot one can say about this but the biggest thing is the lore needs to be tweaked so characters like kaldor draigo get toned down and we get more information about other chapter masters.
In terms of Draigo…. listen i’m a Grey Knights fanboy so of course I think he should be the best chapter master. Problem is Matt Ward being Matt Ward. The average Grey Knight is (or at least should be) better than the average marine so it stands to reason their chapter master should be able to take out every other chapter master (bar maybe specific characters in a fight and give some of them a run for their money in terms of strategy (these guys are designed to go up against daemons of Tzeentch). Now something I want to say that will be very controversial is that I think Draigo beating a primarch isn’t necessarily a bad idea in theory. There need to be a few stipulations though. The primarch shouldn’t be ascended/be a daemon primarch and the primarch in question should one that’s weaker in a fight. So him beating Lorgar, Alpharius, Omegon, and the like if they weren’t daemon primarchs/ascended (going on a hypothetical here). Him beating daemon primarch Mortarion no that’s bs. Reason I say this is sure Grey Knights are stronger than the other marines but because I like to think that the noble shard of Magnus is passed down somehow from one supreme grand master to the next which gives said marine the ability to go toe to toe with a primarch. this is definitely my bias showing but I like it. And at this point I don’t think there’s any prinarch around that he’d be able to take down without a ton of help.
Cool video bud.
I just wish GW left the Carcharodons alone to FW. Read the IA Badab Books and leave the Red Tithe etc in the bin.
Don't know where the size thing came from for Tyberos. They are cold and caluclating, the end justify the means. Also, biggest marine I think fluff wise is Silas Alberec, who is ogryn size.
I would put my custom chapter's chapter master in C tier. Combat ability is good enough for an experienced captain and generalship is questionable, considering the entire chapter is a bit off the deep end and I don't have a whole lot of lore for him, yet.
They're the kind of guys who hear "Exterminatus" and ready their melta guns and drop pods.
In my unbiased opinion, imperial fists are the best chapter.
Chapter Maters 👀 NNNNANI?
The answer is Dark Angels
Preach!
Yeah! Go High Marshal!
No info on Shrike? I am very dissappinted...
1Tyberos 2 molok 3 Gabriel
Rank fists based on Tor Garadon
Yessss carcharodons!
What, you don't like Logan "Look at me, I'm Logan" Grimnar?
Does the Deathwatch not count as a Chapter?
Doesn’t have a Chapter Master
Really disappointed there is no celestial lions, chapter master.
Beware of ork snipers.
So you rate Tyberos higher than Grimnar…..*dr evil voice* Riiiiiiiiiight….
“I’ve only read two SW books”…..yeah we can tell. 😂
Watch Master's 😢
HELBRECHT
😂 your dark angels insignia is not prominent enough