Deconstructing Lot in Sodom | Was Lot a Righteous Man?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- Did God destroy an entire city because of "homosexuality"? Did Lot's wife long to go back to Sodom? Was Lot spared because he was a "righteous man"?
Let's deconstruct the story of Lot in Sodom through our former evangelical/fundamentalist lens and see if we come to the same conclusions they wanted us to in Sunday School.
Please keep in mind that all everything I say here is my subjective opinion, and is intended to deconstruct fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative Christian ideologies from an ex christian perspective
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Outro Music | "Pixels" by Jeff Kaale
tags | Ex christian, deconstructing christianity, exvangelical, former fundie, leaving christianity, gospels, jesus, bible, god, christian, evangelism, apologist, atheist vs christian, agnostic, recovering from religion
Lot says " Hey... we're cookin' some T- bones tonight...go scrape some salt offa you're mother to season the meat..."
💀💀💀
😄
I recently heard a podcaster joke that the words of a particular biblical literalist should be taken “with a grain of Lot’s wife”.
I mean they didn’t have freezers so it was salt and underground back then for long term storage…..plus they wanted to give a “storyline” to go along with all the pillars of salt in the area. Whatcha gonna do?
😂😂😂
It's amazing how Bible stories come across quite differently when you re-read them with your eyes open.
Yeah, you realize that there's some really sick shit in that bible.
@@JBone400
I thought, I was sick!
Exactly! All you have to do is read it without shutting off your brain and use common sense.
@@JBone400 The core concept of the bible is sick. "Obey these people who claim to speak for a supernatural being or be tortured forever" is sick and twisted. Teaching that to children is child abuse.
God is the bad guy in most of the Bible stories. In a more favorable light, God is _merely_ an asshole.
When I was religious, I was told that I wasn’t supposed to look at god/religion logically, since there were things we couldn’t possibly understand. What a wonderful thought stopping technique that was. That one, combined with, “The Bible is the perfect word of god” made me never question the Bible or what I was told… so, if I was told that Lot was righteous, then it MUST be true…. Looking at the story now as an atheist, it is absolutely horrific. Lot is horrible, and his daughters aren’t much better.
Yes! I have a video coming up on those thought-terminating cliches they love to use. It's so nice to have the freedom to think for ourselves! 🫶
@jezebelvibes Lot did not know that he had sex with his daughters? I find this impossible to believe. He nows what his organ is doing! It is a sweating experience!
"When I was religious, I was told that I wasn’t supposed to look at god/religion logically, since there were things we couldn’t possibly understand. "
It is amazing how that is still used. But then common sense has no place in religious understanding of the bible.
I keep saying
faith is not fact
belief is not evidence
the bible is not a self-proving document.
I always got the 'God works in mysterious ways...' line. One of their Catch 22s. If by mysterious they meant 'incomprehensible'.
@@Polyphemus47 "God loves you", or "God's wrath", or something. "God is this" and "God is that", fundamentalists know all about God's character and His intentions. But the moment God does something totally immoral by any reasonable standard, suddenly it's "God works in mysterious ways". He always gets a free pass for being evil.
This story was actually my first big step out of Christianity. I was never taught this story by any pastor. I was a bit of a social outcast in my youth group, so instead of paying attention to the youth pastor I would simply... read my bible. I'd just open it to any random page and read what I found. I remember getting to the part with Lot offering up his daughters and just reading it over and over again in bafflement, thinking "This can't possibly mean what it seems to mean... can it?" But it was so clearly a passage about a man offering up his daughters for gang rape. There was literally no other way to take it, and his behavior is not challenged in any way. It was a catalyst for me to start questioning whether God was actually all good, and it all fell apart over the next few years until I realized I no longer believed any of it.
Exactly my story too! I loved reading everything! When I came across this I was shocked. Who can read this and be okay with a knowing god who allows child/ group rape.
I read about it in that Heinlein novel "Stranger in a Strange Land"
@@regger099 I read "Stranger in a Strange Land" and thought: another book written by a man about a wonderful reality where women are only there to serve men. Like the Islamic version of paradise.
The trick to Christianity is NEVER read the Bible, just listen to the pastor.😊
So you're going to question _God_ for something that _Lot_ did, without any instruction from God that he should do it? The Bible faithfully records what happened, including many of the sins of those in the Bible stories, but saying what happened should not be taken as an endorsement for all of those actions.
As a gay man people don’t understand how much harm these stories have done to us. A lot many of us killed, dead, bullied, judged and discriminated for centuries. I am a very hardworking and compassionate man. We are the most peaceful minority, we won our rights in very non violent way. I wish homophobes and religious fanatics (mostly Christians and Muslims) would just stop. We are your equals.
I have a lot of my gay friends who haven’t spoken to to their homophobic parents for years. Families broken and childhood destroyed is the result. Many take this trauma for whole life.
Thanks Kristi, I hope some doubting Christians watching your videos will change their hearts.
So much harm done from these stories and ideologies 😔 we are seeing a major drop in overall church attendance across the nation right now- I hope it brings with it inclusion and equality.
Thanks so much for your support! 🥰 I really appreciate it!
So sorry of your experience. As a former Bible believer I regret I once had to have the feeling to hate LGBT. When I saw one story of a gay couple who raised an abandoned child from a parent who is male and female, I realized ANY HUMAN with heart should never be labeled BAD. The gay couple had raised this boy from baby, even had him enter college. The picture of the 3 were so nice, the boy who was raised by them was saying they are my great good parents. It’s actually a shame those male and female parent had abandoned that child, he was found in the train alone wrapped. Since my awakening from indoctrination I also wish any LGBT will have good life.
And the worst part is, Sodom and Gomorrah is not about consensual LGBT relationships. It's about sexual assault, and not just any kind, but human on angel, which is a double whammy. Any other interpretation of it is inserting their own authoritarianism and hatred into the text where it simply does not exist.
Fr.
How many times have we heard preachers, Christians, our own family refer to this story when they claim the world today is ending because of the LGBTQ….
That hurts us in so many ways.
We don't hate (refuse) the people but the act. And our wish is that the people come to the understanding handed to us from previous generations who served GOD.
The point is that being gay is condemned by GOD not men first, if being gay was the best plan of GOD for mankind, GOD didn't need to create them Male and Female. He could simply create them Male and Male.
And thinking of how the world would be if GOD created two men to make them a family 😊.
What leads us to such acts is not the desire to see life be transmitted but to see our own feelings be satisfied as much as we can, the same goes for a lot of things considered sin that men do.
That (desire) is not even genuine for a better world because we see the outcome. Two men would never procreate. You can show love to your friends without having xx with them, so love is not the point of being gay...
Being gay is the will to satisfy one's sexual desire but not willing to give life or procreate. It's similar to masturbation and sodomy which are also condemned.
Once there's a will to satisfy one's sexual desire through a means that is contrary to the natural way of transmission of life (procreation), it becomes unlawful. _So, even if the desire is there, we can still overcome it. It's like you are willing to drink some water, but you're told it's poisoned, I am pretty sure you're not gonna drink it just because you are thirsty._
I pray GOD that you come to know the Truth to be set free. Because fulfilling such a desire and not willing to change is not better than condemning oneself before GOD.
This story is very disturbing. I feel sorry for Lot's daughters. I am trying to imagine what must have gone through their minds when they heard their father say that the rapists outside his house could have his daughters. Were they angry? Or... Were they indoctrinated into believing that the value placed on them by their father was in fact noble? The drunken incest account is also disconcerting.
So sad. The most disturbing story yet imo
It is disturbing. Nobody is THAT drunk.
@@QueenBoadicea Yeah. Lot would have to be really out of it to not realize what was happening. I have never been drunk before. Can people lose that much of their awareness while under the influence?
and lets keep in mind that his daughters were most likely. very young still ,as they would marry them off very early ,,after their first periods which would be around 13 or 14... If this was a true story , these girls (not women) would be traumatized for life being gang rped by the town,, If they even lived thro such a horrific crime... so apparently the god (men) who wrote the scripts were also pedo 's.... and yet these script writers always demonize the female as a whote and harlet but the men are considered innocent victims to these "jezebells" .
@@themusespeakstome4467 You can, people "black out" all of the time, especially when they drink consistently. The story is likely all bullshit though so it probably never even happened regardless of which way you want to interpret the part about them getting pregnant by their father.
Lot's wife looking back at her city is the Hebrew parallel of the Greek myth of Orpheus looking back at Eurydice. It's all mythology meant for that time and place.
I realized that our pastor used to leave the last part of the daughters and father out of the story.It was until later I realized why he never mentioned it. So glad I’m out of that religion.
Yep, they only address what is convenient. I once asked a priest “if god can do anything, can he make a rock so big that even HE can’t lift it?” (I was probably 11, but even though I hadn’t thought this question up on my own, I thought it was a legitimate question) anyway, the priest said “Good little boys don’t question god’s authority”….. it’s an old argument that an apologist will answer quite readily today, but not so much back in the day!
@@homespuncovers89 The weird thing is that you probably weren't even trying to question anyone's authority. More like a comic book fan trying to figure out if Superman is strong enough to lift the planet--that kind of thing. Like, what a fan-boy does. Its sad that preachers are so paranoid about anyone figuring their god out that he couldn't respond to your question in a more "fan-like" way. Of course it wouldn't be a serious conversation, it would just be banter with a child. But these so called "child protectors" I think, know nothing of children.
The bit about the incest is really a separate story and needs a sermon all to itself.
Lot was righteous though. When he gave up his daughters, I do believe that was a horrible decision (sin) on Lot's part. Even the prophets had their moments. But, he was still a righteous man. King David also had some great sins that were documented. Doesn't mean those men were hellbound.
Please re-read what you just typed. A righteous man would not even think about giving up his daughters. He would have probably barred the door and found a safe way for everyone to escape. I will not excuse this as a simple mistake or bad moment. It was extremely and obviously wrong and you know it. Stop making excuses for this stuff. If you were in the same situation, would you offer up your children and play it off later as, "Oops, I had a bad moment."? Or, how would you feel if your spouse offered up your children in such a situation? Would you consider them a righteous person who had a bad moment or a sinful coward who would not do the right thing and protect their family? Be honest, after all, you know "God" hates lying.@@danielvargas9100
This is the third video of Kristi's I've watched now. Kristi's pov = therapy. I also appreciate her pointing out how the bible/god treats women as garbage who must obey men.
Thanks for watching ☺️
It's not really that much different now.
Just look at the non problem of abortion.
No business of the church, or the appendix called the supreme Court, but they made it their business.
Made their demands and rulings not truly to protect the child to be, but to protect the sperm that has entered the woman's body.
That's the reason they want to also stop the sale of the pregnancy prevention pills.😮
There is absolutely no respect for women and their needs and health.
That is the normal handout from religion and church.
A moral fable used by the delusional to lead the deluded over what -2500 years?- past Jesus past the Age of Enlightenment to our day: What hope for humanity?
Well… pointing it out is just speaking the truth… I wouldn’t call that therapy, since these stories just scrape at those wounds. It’s what we do after exposing this shit that determines the recovery process.
@@davidk7529 I'd say truth is therapy. Especially when you've been maliciously and manipulatively lied to all your life. Agree that it isn't the whole thing, but without it, you can't get to the whole thing.
I cry every time I move remembering all the memories I had there. I can't imagine being told to flee right now and being told not to look back. Yep, we women are just evil for feeling human emotions.
That does seem to be one of the major themes of the bible.
Your take on it is right. I can't believe how so many of us sat in churches and over the decades and heard the preachers quoting this story and we didn't bat an eye at the part about him offering his virgin daughter to a bunch of rapists! We all FOCUSED on the part about Lot's WIFE being disobedient to god by looking back! (But that was the POINT of the gaslighting we were all subjected to. !)
Exactly, I wonder why did I pushed aside the ridiculous stories in this book, especially this one! What a shame believing it for years and was even going door to door introducing that this book is beneficial to read and believe😅
Well, see, in god's eyes it was holy of Lot to offer his daughters up like that. In fact his "hospitality" was so great that god decided to spare him. Its not like he ever did anything god said not to do. But looking back when god said not to is of course unforgivable.
Bet after the city was destroyed, there was a hell of a shortage of caves in the area. Lot and his daughters were very lucky to have got one.
@@indricotherium4802 They went on to do cave paintings of a pillars of salt. And then the daughters said incest is best , lets go for it.
The "wife" of Lot is still alive as the constellation Virgo. She is still holding the palm frond/branch in her right hand and a bundle of grain in her left hand. See Isaiah 9.14-14, where Israel (summer) is described as four constellations of stars aka Leo thru Scorpio.
it’s weird to me that Lot approached the visitors in that way. maybe it’s a cultural thing. Also I never noticed that it said “the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man”. I always thought it was a small group but the whole dang city was there! You’re telling me brothers, fathers, grandfathers, uncles and cousins were at Lot’s house and he was gonna give his daughters to all the men in the city? But it’s his wife that gets punished in the end? I also don’t understand why Gomorrah is included if it was the men of Sodom who attacked Lot and the angels.
I'm also confused about how Gomorrah fits in. I'm assuming that because they were neighboring cities, they were just being lumped in as all the same?
@@jezebelvibestalk about stereotyping!! I mean we know what sodomy is but what is Gomorrah known for?
@@homespuncovers89 " but what is Gomorrah known for?"
Shenanigans ?
I heard somewhere that the Bible never says why those two cities were destroyed. The Christians point to it and say this is why God hates homosexuals, but the Bible never says those two cities were destroyed b/c of homosexuality.
@@jezebelvibes Collateral damage
I'm glad I found your channel.
Even as a child, the Sodom and Gomorrah really disturbed me.
This story provides us a good example of how the bible writers lied.
Well this should scare you a little more...
m.th-cam.com/video/SDiYb20iAsM/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUbcHJvb2Ygb2Ygc29kb20gYW5kIGdvbW9ycmFo
Bruh just wait til you hear about earth Then XD
@@harveywabbit9541about what?
@@erenjaeger1738
28 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:
3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.
4 The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock-the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
5 Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed.
6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.
7 The Lord will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven.
8 The Lord will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The Lord your God will bless you in the land he is giving you.
9 The Lord will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the Lord your God and walk in obedience to him. 10 Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they will fear you. 11 The Lord will grant you abundant prosperity-in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your ground-in the land he swore to your ancestors to give you.
12 The Lord will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. 13 The Lord will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the Lord your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom. 14 Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them.
Curses for Disobedience
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:
16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.
25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.
36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you.
38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.
43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.
45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.
49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.
53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you-so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot-will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.
58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name-the Lord your God- 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.
64 Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods-gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known. 65 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the Lord will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. 66 You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life. 67 In the morning you will say, “If only it were evening!” and in the evening, “If only it were morning!”-because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see. 68 The Lord will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.
Let me get this straight, not only is it okay, but encouraged, for a child in Florida to read a book ie the Bible containing war, sexual assault, incest, genocide, destruction and a talking snake, but "God" forbid he/she reads a book that has a gay character in it. As a Canadian watching this, Americans never ceases to amaze me.
You must live in a different part of Canada than I do.
@@Sparkypumps I'm in Alberta.
@@TheCount991 Isn't Alberta like the "Texas" of Canada? It might be that your experience is a lot different than that of most Canadians.
@@havable Yup, that sums up Alberta. I'm just pointing out that Canada isn't immune to this stuff, as much as I wish it was. It's not like Florida is the average state either.
@davidvainqueur2482
As an American, it never ceases to amaze _me._
I always looked at Lot's wife looking back not at The Cities of Soddom and Gohmorrah but at their home and all their possessions She could've hated living in those cities but could've been SAD about losing their home and possessions IT'S ONLY HUMAN!!!!!
The bible persistently condemns people for just being human.
I always felt the same way. That it's not ok to look back.
@@jezebelvibes
Not really, whenever God condemns ppl, its for a very very good reason, they deserved it. Plain and simple.
@@aheartonfire7191like when he killed Uzzah for touching a piece of wood and then 70 other people for looking at it? Or when it killed *all firstborns* in Egypt for the terrible sin of having a bad pharaoh? Sure buddy.
@@lilafeldman8630 You mean that it is ok to look back
I knew I was bisexual at a very young age, but unfortunately I was raised in Southeast Georgia and was forced to go to a Southern Baptist church and I remember this story very well. Fast forward to present day, I'm 37 and finally out of the closet and have no contact with my Fundamentalist mother. It sucks to lose my family, but your videos are incredibly validating and have made my path much more peaceful. 🖤
I loved women from a young age. Had to learn how to pick one and be faithful.... Our personal impulses from our youth aren't always correct... I am still learning to fight dark impulses from my youth.
@@danielvargas9100 I see your impulses to comment on my personal life are still pretty intact. I wish you all the ease in learning to fight that impulse too. If you further comment on my life I'll not be acknowledging it. Have a nice night.
It’s a public forum.
@@danielvargas9100can you name a single reason that her being attracted to women is a “dark impulse”;
Other than “god said so”?
I mean if that’s all you got cool but some of us care about having actual reasons to call something wrong.
@@Wrestleroftheyear We humans have a lot of impulses that "if" aren't put under control, can lead to destruction. For example.... Pedophiles have strong impulses to sexualize children. Those personal impulses are there in them... If they aren't controlled, it can lead to them raping children. For many men, they have strong impulses to sexualize women... If not controlled, it leads to men being man whores, or adulterers. Just giving some examples. In the case of someone having impulses of attraction for the same sex, they should be aware of the truth, that we are NOT supposed to engage in that type of relationship, because it's not natural.. Let me ask you this... Do you think it's a good impulse for a man to dwell on sticking his d*** in another man's a**? Would that be a good impulse or a dark impulse?
Grew up in church, no longer religious: I think the part about Lot’s wife was included to explain some geographic feature, naturally occurring, in the part of the world the story comes from.
I think so, too!
As I understand it, it's an explanation for the many salt pillars found in the region that occur naturally. So as with other myths, this is an explanatory story for a natural phenomenon.
That is my understand as well.
There is one called Lot’s wife. Never underestimate the creativity the tourist dollar can create. She evidently was a giant, the formation is 20 m high.
@@dantallman5345 now that's some 65-foot Amazonian goddess right there.
Along with everything you've said, i find it funny that Lot was complaining about going to the hills (for fear of being caught up in the disaster despite trusting the men so far) and BEGGED the men to go to a NEARBY city called Zoar, only to later flee from it to go to the hills....like they told him to do in the first place.
Lol! Just the usual ridiculousness of the bible
imo the author just tried to make up a story about why the city was called "Zoar," so he had to make the main character flee there :3
This is the one that started my deconstruction. I don’t remember many sermons from when I was a kid but I remembered that apparently the two cities were just doing all kinds of “wickedness” and I never read the story for myself until I was a lot older. At the end when the daughters “lie with him without his knowing” like that’s so disgusting on top of everything else and he had just offered those same daughters up to the wicked men of the city! Like that’s mind blowing to me. He offers them up, and then without his knowing they assault him and get pregnant.
Assault him and get pregnant - twice....
Exactly, you're the first commenter I've come across that caught the irony. He offers his virgin daughters up to be raped, and in the end, they lose their virginity raping him. In my whole life, I never noticed that until watching this video.
Hey, guys, wake up. Kristi uploaded a new video.
📣📣📣
@@jezebelvibesYour channel has more irrational thinkers I've ever seen. 😂😂😂😂 It's sad they can never answer my questions.
@jezebelvibes Hey Kristi did you ever see that video I sent you where my pastor talked about The Book of Malachai last week?
Preyz The Lord 😆👸
@@thing1thing2themediamaniac43 I'll do a sermon on that one too
I figured out a lot of the problems of this story at quite a young age. 'please use my daughters for whatever you want just stop being gay' seemed like a massive overreaction. Turning the wife to salt was totally uncalled for. I'd look back, even if only to watch the show. And then his daughters decide to, erm, take matters into their own hand, to say it nicely.
I think it's much more likely that Lot raped his own daughters then made up a story about how it was okay. I mean, think about it, unless they'd been groomed to think that giving him sex was the only way they could survive, that he'd be fine with casting them out if they didn't, why would daughters want to have sex with a father? Espeically after that father had been fine with giving them (or maybe their sisters) over to a gang of people to be brutally raped: clearly they couldn't expect him to be a father who would support and love them, they had to pay for being kept.
@@sundayoliver3147 not impossible, but in actual discussions I feel it is needlessly antagonistic to tag different interpretations on. This story, and the bible as a whole, are bad enough already, no need for a reinterpretation anyway.
Even three years after deconstructing, i never truly re-examine the actual moral story being conveyed by Lot story if we were to take it literally. Thank you for pointing this out. This is the best kind of bible study that i ever participated in.
☺️
Deconstructing is a process.
Alternate story line:
Lot lurked at the city gate. When he saw two good looking guys, he got the urge to bring them home.
The city folk, who knew of Lot and his leanings, went to his door to warn the two guests to leave, as
else; Lot might do things to them. Lot, in his fervour, did not want to lose out on his imagined night
with his two guests, and offered his daughters to get the city folk to leave.
That would have made more sense. Interesting take.
Head canon
That actually makes more sense!
That makes much more sense
at 8 years old I was kicked out of church because I asked 'too many questions' and was 'lead by satan'. All because during that story (I was an unhinged kid) I gasped loudly; "Why his daughters? are they even intrested in women?" and then kept asking my very religious aunt questions like; "but isn't it... a sin to sleep with your father?" or ;"Would you also sacrifice me for some two weird men?", since then she is convinced I am lead by satan and is holding a cross in front of her every time she talks to me) it's been 7 years, now I'm 15 and an atheist (since some time). She refused to live with us after fleeing ukraine because 'I'm evil' and she would rather die than share a house with 'satan's daughter' :/
So you’re lead by Satan bc you’re a critical thinker?! I’m so sorry this happened to you!
Your aunt is an asshole. Don’t let her get under your skin. 🙏🏻♥️
In the JW organization a person at the age of eight does not get kicked out of the congregation for asking too many questions. The parents are the ones responsible for their children not the JW organization. If the child is a baptized member [ hopefully not at 8] the elders can take action for wrongdoing but only with the parents present. The parents are still the legal guardian and are required to care for their minor child until they reach legal age.
Please do the book of job next. That story always bugged me even as a child. Like here is a man that is devoted to god and god acknowledges that and then Satan asks god for a bet to test job (weird that they were hanging out) and god just agrees and kills his kids???? Anyway love you ❤
god made a guy suffer and lose everything to win a bet, what a benevolent god! 😊
My Christian mom learned I was deconstructing recently and suggested I read Job as it was helpful for her faith. I didn't have the heart to give my thoughts on it.
@joyndamukunda8717 My daughter told me I was the ONLY one whoever felt like this about the book of Job -but YOU have EXACTLY expressed what i have ALWAYS felt about it! Another one that really always bugged me was the story of how Abraham was told to murder his son issac and then at the last minute God basically said "Psych! I was just testing you!" Can you imagine if that story had been true-that poor kid was probably terrified to turn his back on his father!
If God is all knowing there would have been no need to test Job as he would have already known the end result.
re - weird that they were just hanging out.
In the old testament, Free Will is a gift that God gives to humans. ONLY to humans. Angels don't have free will. So, according to the bible, Satan is utterly incapable of rebelling against God. Satan is and was a loyal and faithful servant of God. According to the Old Testament, Satan serves as an 'Accuser,' a sort of testing-agent, to test the faith of God's chosen. They're not enemies, they're not friends. Satan is merely a servant of God, serving in his capacity of testing the faith of Lot.
So when Christians and muslims say that Satan is the devil, that he rebelled against God, etc... it's all fan-fiction. None of it is canonical (treating the Old Testament as canon, that is). So, if we agree (with theists, that is) that the Old Testament is all fiction, then Christianity has no basis and is therefore ALSO fictional. However, if we pretend that the Old Testament is true/ real/ accurate, then we have to agree that the New Testament is fan-fiction and that Christianity is a false religion. The whole 'Satan' thing isn't the only whoopsie, either. There are a number of places where Christianity is non-biblical. For example, Jesus doesn't actually fulfil the prophecies he's supposed to have fulfilled. He also doesn't satisfy the requirements of the Messiah. According to the bible, Jesus is NOT the messiah, because he failed to unite the world under Judaism, as well we a few other things... Also, according to the biblical definition of False Prophet (one who draws worship away from God), then Jesus IS a False Prophet.
So, again, if we pretend that the Old Testament is true, then we have to also agree that Christianity is a false religion.
Now, I know that you're not a Christian, but I kinda got stuck on this tangent, so I felt that I had to pursue it. Hopefully, though, you can use these ideas in your own arguments against theists, next time you have a Christian telling you how much Jesus loves you.
I've always had issues with this story but the fundamentalists always find a way to normalize it.
So you prefer it if the God of the Bible were just some kind of pacifist who never gets angry, never judges anyone and never punishes people? What kind of judge would just let people off the hook for breaking the law? What kind of judge would just let people do whatever they want regardless of the rule of law? Next time someone hurts you, or you see someone get hurt and no one does anything about it ask yourself the same question.
@@SimonPeterSutherland
If a god existed, and was responsible for everything else that existed, harmful options would not have to exist. We can't be invisible, or walk through walls, so a god could make it so that we wouldn't be able to do harmful things. According to the christian bible, the god created evil, so anything evil that happens is _its_ fault, not ours.
@@SimonPeterSutherlandNext time you read the in christian genocide manual, aka the bible, that your brutal, barbaric, bloodthirsty god commanded the copious savage slaughter of babies, infants and little children, ask yourself the same question.
@@SimonPeterSutherlandthe character God is not written as a just character.
@@YY4Me133What makes you think God created evil and is responsible for everything that happens? I’m not a determinist Calvinistic so I don’t see the God of the Bible as responsible for everything that happens in this world.
I remember a TV adaptation of this story. I saw it as a child back in the 1970s. They skipped the "rape my daughters" part. They skipped the "sex with our father" part. They didn't skip Lot's wife becoming a "pillar of salt" but I remember Lot trying to stop her from looking.
FACTS💯💯💯
Lot wants to turn over his two daughters.... no repercussions. Lot's wife turns around... Pillar of salt. Sounds totally fair.
Yeah sounds like he was way more willing to let these men Grape his daughters then the two men cause at least then it wouldn’t be gay🤷🏻♀️
Lots wife loved the life style in the perverted cities and she was warned not to. Her daughters heeded the message.
@@warrior-xd2xn Actually, she turned around just to enjoy watching the destruction of her prison. Good riddance!
Hey, if you can just make shit up, so can I.
@@warrior-xd2xn where in the text does it state this? And respectfully how is it appropriate that a father hand over his daughters to rapists? Just so they possibly “won’t be gay.” And why was it acceptable for his daughters to become impregnated through him, did they not know Abraham had family and there were other people in lands beyond which weren’t destroyed. Think, behind them is destruction but ahead of them are many lands that they see aren’t being destroyed.
@@bhavinmehta1490 If you read Genesis 19:30 They went out of Zoar and dwelt in the cave and he was afraid. It's possible his daughters were also fearful of leaving the mountain. They believe that no man would come to mountain and marry them.
"Blasphemy is a human right."
"Heresy is a human right."
"Apostasy is a human right."
I think these sentences would be good on shirts. I would buy one.
Would you buy a t- shirt that says “I’m on the way to hell and I don’t care”?
I agree and me too!
Burning the pride flag is the human right.
@@Justas399 If people like you are in heaven, then I would buy that shirt too.
I'll make them
"And both of Lot's wives looked back, one became a pillar of salt & the other became a large metal tube with AAA upon it. Why did you kill my wives? Cried Lot. Actually it's only assault and battery God replied."
i thought of all those things when spoken about in bible study, but felt that there might be something wrong with me so I kept my thoughts to myself. Can't believe how gullible I have been.
The times, they are a changin’ 🎶 hang in there like the rest of us. It’s a journey
I asked those questions in Wednesday "Sunday" School, for teens. The youth pastor had no answers so they sent me to the elders, who thought I was being smarty pants. I wasn't. I just wanted to know the Why's about situations like this. I mean, the bible from so long ago can't cover every possible situation and I wanted to be a moral being and to make the right decisions in life. But I didn't know how to do that if I couldn't figure out the basis of Why. In the end, they actually kicked me out of their church, because *they* didn't have the answers. That was my first step toward atheism.
@@Sparkypumps I stopped feeling ashamed about it when I realized they had 2,000 years of experience grooming children before my three year old self ever set foot in a Sunday School. They didn't just wake up before me, they'd perfected their mind control strategies long ago.
All of us who have broken free from the lies feel your pain. I don't blame my parents for teaching me this 💩 because they didn't know any better, but I DO blame priests and pastors that make a living spewing Biblical sewage. If they know it's not true, they're just corrupt con-men; If they don't realize it's not true, they're grossly incompetent at their job.
@@SparkypumpsYou never really believed. Once you know something is true, you can't "unbelieve".That would be like saying I saying I saw the Golden Gate bridge then moving to Georgia and some one convinced me it didn't exist and I believed it.
I am curious about where Lot's wife was in the line as they are leaving. If she was trailing them then they never knew what happened to her because they would have to look back to see it. If she was ahead of them then was she looking back at the city? She could just as easily have been looking back to see where they were and maybe grab a hand to help her husband or daughter to climb over some tough terrain or something. Sounds likely. If she was in the back, then the whole pillar of salt thing could just be her being overtaken by whatever the calamity was. A wave of volcanic ash, or a massive dust storm. Who knows for sure, but either would make you look like a pillar of salt.
"maybe grab a hand to help her husband or daughter to climb over some tough terrain"
Her failure to trust that the genocidal maniac blowing up the city behind her would provide a safe path for her children was a sin, apparently.
there is No way a woman is leading her husband in those days
@@Jabulani926 But Lot is a righteous man. He can't look back so the righteous thing to do would be to herd them from behind, or to hold their hand and drag them along.
@joestalin926 Imagine a husband leading his family from danger and he doesn't even look back
Just another example of the recurring theme… “I swear I brought her along! She _must_ have looked back, there’s no other way we could have lost her…”
Just blame her for Lot’s negligence.
You are a gem. Thank you sincerely for doing what needs to be done in a most charming way.
I find that whenever you run across the rare honest Christian, he or she will admit that the idea of a man being too drunk to not know that he was sleeping with his daughters but not too drunk to be able to perform, a definite bridge too far.
I've also wondered how that can work?
@@ilsevanlegos7529 I can’t think of any conceivable way. If this story really took place then Lot knew full well what was taking place. IMO.
@SPL0869 I just checked this part of the story for an esoteric literary technique I picked up on last week.
I said earlier this morning or last night that
Lot had come in this circumstance to represent the fatherland... or remnant
of a nation... so I suggested that
Abraham and Ishmael/Melchizedek
were Egyptians... traitors, deceivers,
usurpers... that they killed everyone they
Encountered while ransacking the northern citizens of Egypt.
Except for the virgin girls they took
as "breeders" hence "The Lord's"
promise to Abraham that he would
make his descendants as numerous
as the sands of the sea.
Abraham was also called Abram,
until Melchizedek changed his name
to Abraham... which I can interpret
potentially as the
"The Steward of Ra(Amun)contained" (hem)
Or father
" The Steward of the exalted one."
or father
"The Steward of the hidden/forbidden"
"The Keeper of the Harem"
I was interpreting them getting him drunk
and going in unto him different nights
as, they were sharing the concubines..
So I decided to search out the Hebrew
pronunciation of wine...
it was a short video with a man having a glass and saying a few wine associated
words... wine... didn't sound interesting,
but vineyard sounds like,
ye'Kave....
so I looked up Hebrew for
cave...
mearah : a cave.
Well, well... harem
Those guys easily reached an age of 800 years, so what could be the problem to get a boner while intoxicated?
Supposedly...
"It provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance." - William Shakespearre
One question I have always had for biblical literalists concerning this story is... how were there enough people on earth at that time to create CITIES? We weren't that far past when the entire place was flooded
Not big cities , I will assume like village or so.
Genesis 9:1
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
This is the exact same command that was given to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
If Adam and Eve could produce enough people to replenish the earth, I'm sure Noah's 3 sons
and their 3 wives could certainly do the same.
@@Avendalethat “if” is doing some HEAVY lifting
@@Avendale I wonder how his descendants turned into Chinese people, and Indian people, and aboriginal Australians and Zulus and Swedes and Irish and Navajo and Aztec and Incas. As they spread across the earth they changed a lot really fast. And of course, they all brought with them these early Bible stories, because it was their heritage. Oh, wait. Most of them didn't. Actually… None of them did.
@@AvendaleWith a whole Lotta incest...yeah probably
Thanks for being on this journey with me! I’ve done all of this on my own but it’s not the same as feeling like I’m talking to you about the absurdity of what we were taught growing up! I can’t believe I almost spent my like not questioning this book. So glad I did.
I saw a funny cartoon. Lot was sitting at the dinner table with his family when one of his daughters asked, “Please pass the Mom and pepper.”
😆
😛
Running for your lives, can’t forget the wine. Had to be dragged out of that city because they enjoyed the place. Lot was the one who requested to go to a cave to be alone with his daughters. He led them to believe he was the last man on earth and it was on them to repopulate the earth. He tricked them.
👀
Haha. Not far from the truth... His daughters where... well... "Abraham" took credit for all the good things Lot did,
Lot got credit for all atrocious deeds of Abraham. Abraham was Lot's father, but kind of his uncle because it was a "Levirate Marriage "... his father died before his new wife could conceive.. Abraham probably killed him.
Then he eventually married a couple of his own daughters. Lot's half-sisters, of which marriage to the eldest was his birthright...
The younger one died, then later Abraham killed the eldest. She had been duped into fooling Lot,
getting him drunk and abducting him to take to Abraham.
Then Abraham impaled/crucified him on the wall of a city...
to make a burnt offering of him. She took a javelin and mercy killed him.. this angered
Abraham so much he had her killed a few months later... The daughters Lot impregnated
were a bunch of virgin girls that Abraham's men had spared when he invaded and slaughtered lower Egypt and put
Everyone the met to the sword except for the virgins he took as "breeders" ...
Abraham and his General were Lot's daughters, Lot was the virgin girls....
Lot was Tutankhamun....
Switch Abraham to Abimelech/Melchizedek/Ishmael here...
I know this is true
Repopulate the earth... seems I heard this from the story of Noah's Ark.
Do we know whether or not these two were the same two virgin daughters that Lot offered to the townsfolk just a few days earlier ?
When Abraham bargains with God to not destroy Sodom is attributed to him as compassion- when Lot’s wife simply looks back while doing what she was told, it’s disobedient
It is also worth noting that there were undoubtedly plenty of innocent children in Sodom and Gomorrah who were flat out murdered by God, and plenty of pregnant women with their sacred fetuses who didn't get an opportunity to get born.
The Bible is most certainly a piece of dung.
Please won't somebody think of the children!😂
This is really reaching even for you.
@@signposts6189 God murders plenty of children in the Bible, Christians murdered plenty more.
Yay, a new video! I recently found you, and have been really enjoying your videos. You keep helping me deconstruct stuff I didn’t even realize I needed to deconstruct. Thanks for all your time and effort!
Thanks for the support ☺️ happy you're here
Meanwhile in Christian newspapers “why are young people leaving Church, must be college” yes because college has to teach that sexual assault is wrong due to the law. And the bible wont.
Not sure what College has to do with it. Sexual assault has always been morally wrong and embedded in our consciences regardless of what God's word the bible teaches. The fact is the world's religions have done a poor job teaching people the truth of God's word the bible.
16:21 "Well, that's a Lot to unpack, huh?" Fittingly, that's also what both of Lot's daughters said that night.
what an awesome human you are. i hope you appreciate the incredible and important work you are doing by sharing your story of educating yourself in such an elegante and easy to understand manor. thank you.
🥹 thanks!
I like how "Lot's wife" doesn't even have a name.
Why would a man's possession be referenced to by a name? His daughters were merely his daughters, no names, just girls who happened to be his property that he could allocate to an angry mob to be raped, they are certainly not the property of his wife, and in no way are either their own person. Tsk, people on here not knowing that women should know where they sit within the biblical the pecking order 😅
😂😂😂
Enjoying reading this comment section before the cognitive dissonance comments flood in and tell you you’re misinterpreting this! I always hated this story, it always showed that God picks his favorites and makes them main characters and everyone else in their story is expendable like Lot’s daughters.
I noticed that too. It's always the "it's out of context" Christians after the video has been out for about a month and you go back to look at the new comments 😂
I just recently found your channel and I’m thoroughly enjoying it. I’m a bit older than you, but I, too, grew up in an Evangelical, Fundamentalist church environment but removed myself from that negativity and mythology once I was able to think for myself. I raised my sons to think for themselves and, unfortunately, that pretty much ostracized us from my family. It’s strange, though; while we TRY not to antagonize them at all, they constantly bombard us with Christian texts, memes, messages, videos, etc. When obtained a degree in Philosophy and Religious Studies, my mother was outraged. As a woman, I shouldn’t have been studying that, firstly, and secondly, I was questioning the Word and studying other religions. I’ve been threatened by the Rapture monthly, especially in 1989 (as a teenager, that was kind of nuts!). I don’t think people realize how seriously Evangelicals take every sentence of the Bible only to not take any of it seriously. You do an amazing job with your channel! I will be supporting you!
Kristi, Much respect and appreciation for your specifying that this video is through the eyes of the ‘fundamental evangelical sect’ that insists upon a completely literal interpretation of the Bible. That is important for all to know as the majority of Christians do not see it through that lease. I also realize many do.
Peace to all!
Kristi, I still do believe in a Higher Power. And I still do believe in a God that rules over the universe. But I just wanna tell u that ur videos are helping me deconstruct and I thank you for that. This journey has been super scary but I feel so relieved at the same time. Thank you.
So happy my videos can resonate 🫶
I'm in the same position -- I know there is something infinite and huge that created and keeps creating all matter. What I find helpful about deconstructing is, I was programmed to believe that that something could be squished into the form of an abusive bullying male who demands obedience or else. It's such a PETTY god. A disempowering god.
Kristi, TOPIC IDEA: How about talking about the "doctrine" of the "Age of accountability." The Bible says absolutely NOTHING about it, yet evangelicals (and others) everywhere subscribe to the fact that children are protected from Hell until they're old enough to know better. Yet there's nothing in the Bible that supports this in any way! AND it directly CONTRADICTS the doctrine of Original Sin. We are conceived in sin, and are sinful from that moment on! And obviously, God has no problem killing innocent people, right? Noah's Ark anyone? So why would he protect children in this way, especially when this concept directly contradicts the Bible?
Great idea! I'll put this on my list. It would make for a great video!
That reminds me of the story of Elisha and the Two Bears. I know some apologists will say that the "little children" translation is wrong. They say it meant more like older, dangerous, teen age thugs. They of course, do this to make Elisha not look so bad cursing them (bear attack) That they try to soften stories with children is quite telling.
God can "kill" anyone He wants, He owns all life since it's His own creation
Love this series Kristi! Reading it through different eyes. Thank you ❤
What gets me is that all through out the Bible, God tells Christians to be cautious and aware of false prophets and people who claim to be from him. At the same time, they're punished for doing just that.
Thanks for your input on the story of Lot. I think you’re right that most pastors spin the myth to preach that Christians must believe whatever a man of god says or suffer the horrible consequences.
your videos have helped me through so many thoughts i’ve had while deconstructing, i have more peace now than i ever did as a christian and much of that credit is to you
Woman looks back at city: god turns her to salt
A bunch of Germans plan a mass genocide: "nah, god doesnt interfere with free will."
Remember, homosexuality is bad but incest (having sex with your daughters AFTER your wife has been turned to a pillar of salt and getting them pregnant) is A-OK.
The hypocrisy I can't lol also to someone who offers his daughters to get raped. The morality seems so gray here
@@r1v3r74 Yes there is no morality. Strange how Christians always says that God gave us the Bible to teach us morality. In any case, the Christians I've dealt with...
I know the story, I’ve read the story, yet I hear it and it raises my hackles every time lol I will not offer my daughters. I will allow angels to take care of themselves when I know one can slaughter 180k soldiers in a single night. In this example, there were two angels. But take my daughters? What in the actual f*ck
Hello. I live in the UK, I'm in atheist, but my partner is a Christian. And we get along perfectly well. We seem to have a bit less of extreme Christianity, mostly, in this country. For example, in her local church, the pastor as you would call them (vicar in the U.K.) is female, and the church warden is in an open same-sex relationship with her partner. Nobody bats an eyelid. That's not to say that there are more fundamental based churches, but it seems that the majority operate on a live and let live policy. And I really enjoyed your presentation, and as a new subscriber, I look forward to more. Best wishes from London. David. PS no one expects to be raptured any time soon!!!!😂😂😂😂😂
Yes, I scroll through comments looking for rapture mentions for entertainment. Grown adults expecting to be whisked away right before all the bad stuff really happens. It’s a cool story when you hear it at age 8 or so. Luckily I figured it out in my 30’s haha.
The UK is a different animal. I've lived in the US evangelical subculture before returning and it's really weird and scarily self-assured and beyond criticism. I left the USA and Christianity (20 years ago)...
As seth andrews says " things become much clearer when we take our God glasses off"
Thank you Kristi for making these videos. You are making more of a difference than you will ever know.
That was a brilliant deconstruction, Kristi. I really do not know how christians can live with themselves.
what you do is so necessary and needed kristi
Totally fantastic video as usual, Kristi. Thank you!
Thanks so much!
Kristi's videos will be so good for the thousands of thousands struggling to escape from the fundamentalist prisons they are in. Please share them.
It's been many years since I thought much about the myths and parables I was inundated with in my childhood. I'm really enjoying your take on all this stuff. Growing up gay, I was tortured by all the hate being slung around, knowing I was doomed to Hell. In my late teens, I trashed the whole bathwater, AND the baby. It wasn't easy, at first, dealing with the '...but what if?' business, but I persevered. Oddly, I got much less negativity for coming out as gay than I did for coming out as an atheist. One of my coworkers said, "I thought I liked you." But, y'know? So what?
I got a question. If Lot was knocked out from wine, how did he not wake up when his daughters were having sex with him? How much wine did dude drink? And if Lot was supposed to be asleep, how was his daughters supposed to freak him? Is this why we're not supposed to "question the Bible"? Because it all starts falling apart when we do?
Probably the wine was very strong. It had a high alcohol content.
I had a man tell me that there is absolutely no way, he could get so drunk that he would NOT know that he was having sex with his daughter
....and whiskey d*ck is a thing, LOL
Never been black out drunk I take it?
You'd be surprised what you can do and have no memory of.
And even if that was the case, how would he get erect when he's sleeping, during the REM phase?
It's crazy how different these stories become without the blinders of confirmation bias clouding your judgement and the realizations of how morally inept they are
Certainly, my Sunday School teacher left out some of these verses. Or maybe not, and I just don't remember. I was a young man when I stopped believing. I can't believe that I would not have questioned God if I had read this entire story of Lot in Sodom.
A believer just told me We must SEEK Jesus genuinely from heart to be labeled righteous through his eyes. But my jaw dropped thinking why should I SEEK Jesus who acknowledged Lot is RIGHTEOUS in the New Testament😅, a disgusted Father who willingly wanted his daughters to be raped and even had 。。。with them in the cave😮Something is extremely wrong with this book God’s mind, allowed to be written that Lot is Righteous in NT too😅
Born and raised in USA I've been afraid to think out-of-the-box. I knew one day Generations like yours would catch on. I Love what you're posting
🫶
Phil Collins: I don't care anymore. That's how I feel about Christianity.😎
I “accepted the call” to ministry in 1991. I didn’t fully deconvert until 2016. I had this uncanny ability to note the hits while ignoring the misses.
Some young college grad would get up and “testify” that “God” answered his prayer and he now had a job working in the field that he had went to college to study for. Hallelujah!
But then the young lady with breast cancer that we had laid hands on multiple times and she still died anyway, “oh god must have needed her more than her two young children.”
Yeesh! I can’t believe that I ever bought into this nonsense. A god that would turn a woman into a pillar of salt for looking back at her home burning but does nothing to stop pedophile priests from harming children. Yeah how can anyone worship a monster like that?
You should have stayed out of the "ministry". I don't know what you were called to but it wasn't the God of heaven.
@garystapp1656 I think that's what he was getting at... hence the,
"accepted the call"...
@@garystapp1656 I now know that I wasn’t “called” to anything and I doubt that anyone else is either.
And if the “god of heaven” is the same as the “god of the Bible” then my question as to how can you or anyone else check your morality at the door and worship such a monster, still stands.
How can you do it Gary? Fear? Yep definitely fear.
@@Highspergamy thanks. I suppose that being butt hurt over someone else coming to the realization that they wasted a considerable amount of their life believing BS, has caused Gary here to only read what he wants to read in my post.
@@SPL0869 Totally your opinion. Not fear here Bud. Sorry if you were driven by fear, not me though.
JUDGE TO DEFENDANT: Judge- "Before I rule on child support payments and since we have determined that the child is in deed you child, do you have anything to say for yourself?" Defendant- "Yes your honor. I am not guilty. That night she made me drink wine. Then she lay with me. I did not know she lay with me or when she arose." Judge- "Well, why didn't you tell me that to begin with. That changes everything. Lady, you get nothing. Case dismissed."
Thank you so much for addressing this one. It always bothered the shit out of me for the exact reasons you touched on.
I'll be honest: whenever I tried back in the day to read the Bible cover to cover, I never could, because the first few books always made me so angry. Women are always blamed for everything, God is an asshole, and nothing makes sense. I was never able to finish any of it. Even when I tried to skip around and try to do the New Testament, I had the same issue. Hell, even the few times Jesus tries to stand up for his Jewish sisters, his advice gets ignored because Paul is a misogynist.
I am actually so glad I was never raised in one particular church. I was allowed to find the divine for myself. I still believe in a higher power, but the Christian interpretation is not it.
I felt and still feel the same way, people ban books all the time but they also forgot how r18 and cruel “story lines” in the Bible are.
Feeling validated & seeing mental health professionals in my 20s was how I only truly learned about how respect, boundaries & consent look like to each individual… coz grown ups my in my life including church community failed to teach me since young.
My questions were often getting shamed for, and their answers were not even logical. They kept showing me Bible verse but they often failed to notice those verses with context and situations at the time were very toxic.
@@christophergibson7155 You are a liar.
Please go away.
@@christophergibson7155
Her “always” came from frustration, we shouldn’t use “always” or “never” when it comes to expressing our feelings. Just like how you said “you don’t care” with your own frustration also.
We’re sorry for saying “always”, it’s not always… but it’s very often I must say.
We know that a lot of women in the Bible are honoured too, but we can’t ignore there are also many who are blamed and ignored.
For example, even Mother Mary’s rights to consider and consent were not being considered by our mighty God when our Lord sent angels to tell her she’s gonna be pregnant. We honour her, but we didn’t respect her time, her body autonomy and her simple human rights. But I guess coz “God said so” so it makes it ok and very just(?).
@@christophergibson7155Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 2:11-14
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 KJV
Sure sounds like women are getting the crap end of the stick from God
@@christophergibson7155I’d rather burn forever than suffer you fools in heaven
My Question is who look back to see that she turned back and turned back and wrote it.😂😂😂😂😂😂
I see why you're watching this channel and not turning the other cheek back and forth on the granite hard pews where God wants you... *tut..tut
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I’m a Christian Catholic, and I started reading the Bible. When I got to the flood story, my blood boiled and was so enraged at how horrific and monstrous God is. In this story, the Sodom and Gamora, the part that greatly disturbes me is when the angels come down the men in the house wanted to sleep with them. However, the fact that he was willing to allow his daughters to literally be rapped disgusts me to no end. I don’t remember what the church taught at the moment, other than being against homosexuality as well.
This is one of many examples of just how little bronze age near Asian morality can have in common with modern European norms. It's something most Christians avoid thinking about as much as possible. Expelling your daughter to be raped by a voracious mob is clearly the only solution in this scenario as doing otherwise would violate your sacred duty to your house guests. The ancient tradition regarding this tale is that the cities in question were condemned primarily for their lack of hospitality, charity, and Lot confirmed himself as a moral paragon by behaving as the ultimate host.
Other fine examples would include, but be not limited to, the obvious joys of dashing babies against rocks, cutting your daughter into pieces as obligated in order to message nearby populations, and murdering people for gathering firewood on Saturday.
"Near Asian"?
Also known as Near Eastern, Middle Eastern, etc @@whatwecalllife7034
Lot was offering his daughters to the mob so they would at least be STRAIGHT rapists, and not gay rapists. He was attempting to lessen their sin in God's eyes... he was doing a noble thing
What I want to know.
If they were in a cave, were did the daughters get the wine?
I guess the Lord said to those daughters, when you face disaster it’s not water you need to take, it’s WINE😂I have a PLAN for you three😮😅
Maybe they picked it up in Zoar? It also doesn't say how long they were living in the middle of nowhere before the, uhh, thing, happened. So maybe they had planted their own vinyard by this point?
But I must say, the image of the whole family dragging carts full of wine away from Sodom is much more amusing. Gotta find something to laugh at in this horrific abomination of a story.
My pet joke theory is that Jesus went back in time after the wedding of Cana. He needed the Israelites to have some close blood rivals to put down. "Eww! You're from incest babies!"
Kristi, thank you so much for producing such excellent videos, all done with such great humility and humour and honesty, you will never know how much these videos will impact peoples lives in a positive way and help set people free from religion. well done !
I think you forgot a few things about this story: In Genesis 18, God thinks of hiding from Abraham what is is planning to do to Sodom and Gomorrah, then he says something like “the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great… that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry”, so, the omniscient God needs to go in person to check out the outcry from … who?. Then he bargains with Abraham about not doing it if there is at least 10 righteous people (Lot + Wife + Daughters + Fiancées of the Daughters = 6, wasn’t there another 4, really?). The Angels make it to Sodom, somehow God doesn’t make it and they never go to Gomorrah, yet both cities get destroyed. Finally, the Daughters sleep with their Dad because “there are no man around” … but they had just left Zoar!
It’s not only mythology, is extremely badly written, I can’t believe there are Churches that take the book of Genesis serious.
Facts. And there are so many times in the biblical narrative of this 3 Omni god walking around not knowing things he should know or not being as powerful as he should be.
Yes. And the other thing is... if there are 10 righteous people in Sodom, suddenly all the stuff the wicked people are doing is okay and doesn't need to be wiped out? And, can't god just beam out all the righteous people, or just make all the wicked ones drop dead?
Poorly written and misleading poor humans had to through gods anger and rage.
it's literal history but ok
Edit you were right it says ten but I'm not 100% sure that the women count in that story.
Edit 2
God said he would not destroy the city if ten were found. They didn't find ten so God destroyed the city.
10?
I will have to recheck but I thought it got down to 1.
As in only the men counted.
i.e. Lot.
Growing up Evangelical-Fundamentalist, this part of the story was never covered. We were taught the bible is the word of God and that all parts of the bible were good for instruction, yet our church would pick and choose what to believe.
Well said. Lott's wife didn't turn to salt, she hid behind a tree till everyone was out of sight then took off. No one turn to see the pillar of salt, smart lady.
I don’t know how else to put it- You’re doing the lords work! 😂 Thank you! Love your videos!
😊
You know what I hate about your videos? I get part way through it and feel like you missed something and I’m going to write a comment. And then you nail it. Every time.
Fine. I’ll subscribe. Happy now? See what you made me do?
Kristi - The Thunderstealer!
@@Polyphemus47 right? How dare her arguments be well thought out, thorough and complete. Who does that?
It’s so hard to find analysis of these stories unbiasedly. This was very helpful for research
These are better than therapy.
It's therapy for me too 😅
I check this channel every day and every day she has hundreds of new subscribers ❤️👍
😊
Its weird what Christians focused on in this story. Instead of condemning Lot for offering up his daughters to be raped and condemning incest. They use the story to justify homophobia.
There's even more issues you missed:
1. Wife is nameless... so are the daughters -- why does only Lot have a name?
2. Lot SHOULD have offered HIMSELF to be raped... before his daughters... if he were righteous. No excuse for that.
3. Lot ARGUED with the commands of these angels, even answering them with "No" -- to a command of God? Why wasn't he turned into Salt for that?
4. Men so drunk they don't remember, aren't physiologically capable of sex... Was this another Miracle of God intervention to allow this sex to happen?
5. The descendents of Lot was the Ammorites/etc -- those whom Moses/Joshua commanded Genocide against as they took the "promised land". Why did God do all this to preserve a lineage of people to occupy lands so that they can just be slaughtered by the Jews?
There is also no commandment against rape! Women were property! 😢
Lot's wife thinks about her neighbors who she used to spend many hours with every week, turns back when she realizes what is probably happening to them right then.
God: "Salt!"
Excellent job as always! This one warped story could take hours to expound. Thank you again!
We should deconstruct the idea of Hell and Eternal Conscious Torment.
I appreciated the acknowledgement early in this video that stories like this aren't originally Christian/that they've been essentially appropriated by Christianity in a way that often (as tends to happen with this story) twists it in ways that add and/or remove meanings (e.g. in this case, adding emphasis on homosexuality and removing/reducing emphasis on Lot's own yickiness). Thank you for doing your best to look at what the story itself says and doesn't say!
I believe that this story was the authors fever dream of having sex with his daughters. And he thought to himself, how could I get rid of my wife and then have my daughters look to me for sex? And he came up with this ridiculous story as a way to act out his desires without actually killing his wife and raping his daughters.
Yeah, there is also that part.
"Lot, what happened to your wife? I thought you were married?"
"Oh, she, um, was turned into a pillar of salt."
So add to it, Lot is a drunken child molester who murdered his wife, and this story is just his spin to make himself look not so bad.
Yup, and "oh I didn't force myself on them, they seduced meee!"
@@sthorne8936 A line you will hear from child-rapers to this day.
The argument “well, back then…” is sooo annoying. Like, EXACTLY so let’s do away with it all lol.
I love how it’s another example of humans willing to do whatever it takes to defend entities with FULL ABILITY to protect themselves with supernatural powers, just like the good lord themselves.
My pastor said if Lot was the righteous man in the city, imagine how bad everyone else was!
😅 I've definitely heard the exact same
There does not seem to be a good role model.
I’ve heard many preachers condemn Lot’s actions; they explain that his standards became increasingly compromised the longer he lived among the unrighteous, and they turn the story into a warning about immersing yourself in a surrounding culture that’s vile. Lie with dogs and arise with fleas, and all that.
I was pretty young when I realized that obedience is the most important virtue of the bible, but it's something to be applied warily in real life.
Like many other virtues, it can cut both ways. Nazi soldiers were obedient when they committed genocide. Almost every other classical and theological virtue is the same: Fortitude, what if you're being strong for a hurtful goal? Prudence, bank robbers sometimes employ very good practical wisdom. Justice is closer to being a universal good, but what about mercy? Temperance same, but sometimes we need all things in moderation including moderation! Is faith in dumb ideas a good thing? What if we hope for something bad or something that never happens? Charity/love is also close to a universal good, but what if we love the wrong person or an immoral ideal? You get the picture.
Thanks for your videos. They help crystalize all the ethical thoughts going around in my head!
I''ve recently discovered you after Ray Comfort covered one og your vids. I'm now working through your back cataloge to watch all yor content. I'm a lifelong atheist, but always heartened when I hear someone has escaped religion. Hearing how they did it often surprises me. Thanks for taking the time to tell your story.
So happy ray is sending people my way 😄
@@jezebelvibes He could have helped by leaving a link to your video, but Ray does his best to misrepresent others and to make it difficult for folk to see what actually gets said by them quite often, but luckily I heard you mention your own first name, I popped that in with 'atheist' I quickly found you 😆