BOLTR: Musical Reeds to measure RPM
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- This old tachometer uses music box type reeds to measure motor RPM without electricity. It's more useful than a digital Tach because it shows you resonant frequencies and can be used to check hammer and reciprocal speeds too. Thanks for helping me make more movies, I appreciate your help. Early access here: / ave
Resonant frequencies, I can set my fiddle on top of my piano and hit an A note on the piano and watch the A string vibrate on the violin.
Try to put the piano on a skill saw and see what key vibrates
EagleKeeper makes sense, that’s a pretty neat trick though
cool
@Bob Bobbertson They're literally the same instrument so I'm not sure what you mean.
@Bob Bobbertson yeah it is lol its a southern american name for it
Forrest Addy, who besides being an amazing keeper of machinist lore is also an opera singer, told me a story about a giant machine whose purpose I can't remember, but had started shaking around the shop floor. It had a dozen internal places where something could have gone wrong, all of which would be a week of heavy work to dismantle the machine to inspect.
Forrest had the brainwave to bring in his tuning forks. By holding each of them up against the machine he discovered that the machine made the A fork sing. 440 hz. He figured that 440 had to be a harmonic of the problem vibration - they looked through the drawings and found a 110 tooth gear. Opened the machine up and found the gear with two teeth broken.
that's the problem, it should have been 432hz
@@mikowai 432 is a very unpleasant tuning in my opinion, you can’t go down more than one octave easily.
I used one of those back in the 80s at a Cadillac dealership to diagnose Driveline vibrations
Was just gonna ask if it would work for ICE.
I used on in the 90's for the same thing. Sometimes worked better than the new EVA "Electra vibration analizer"
briggs and stratton 19200
@@transdimensionalist my boss at the A-1 Air Cooled small engine shop had one that had a long wirery lead off of it. Cool beans.
@@pegtooth2006 That's a Sirometer.
"Myrtle if you're out there, I hope you're enjoying your retirement." 😂
I saw we find myrtle
I just picked one up at a boot sale - "inspected by 55" - so Myrtle's best friend then?
Had an old generator with one of these to show the line frequency. After it warmed up, you would fine tune the throttle until you got 60hz.
f = (N*P)/120
Drooling over that, now off to fabricate one with three rows and tritium paint
Tritium ❤
All this talk about vibrating and not a single inuendo..everything okay AVE?
I have one of these for sale. It has two rows of teeth. What is is worth I'm 65 and don't work anymore.
@@paulpulliam2913 -- It's worth what you can get for it. Total junk to some people, a hidden treasure to others.
@@TlalocTemporal I'd love to sell mine I'm not going to be changing any boat propellers any more. It really shines for that. I have zero experience selling anything on Ebay,, but My rural doesn't have too any chief engineers.
They automatically tune reeds with laser in harmonica manufacturing nowadays, so wouldn't be too expensive once the tooling is made. Still probably more expensive than slapping together a bunch of SMD components on a PCB.
You and your harmonica manufacturing!
@@ShainAndrews Big Harmonica strikes again
Lasers are used to 'tune' SMD components like resistors also. Just a fun fact. 😁
Harmonicas are good .
Correct, could definitely be automated
They still make them! Sticht 9281 Compact Vibrating Reed Tachometer 2500 to 6500 RPM for a cool $323.60 USD.
'Batteries not included'
Crap I was just looking on amazon hoping to have one delivered tomorrow for $29 😢
Yep I use these very often to measure natural frequencies of the machines I design for my job. Not even lying here, I design vibratory equipment. We normally use reed tachs in the 400 to 1200 and 1200 to 2500
Next time you knock the dust off the missus, keep it close by to count the hammer blows per minute.
Let us know how it works.
It would never work. The sampling period is too short.
😅😅😅👍👍 Brilliant
@@BLenz-114 😅😅
Such a simple tool it almost hertz that I didn’t come up with it myself!
I can harmonize with you, it happens to me with much frequency.
@@arduinoversusevil2025 I just thought I'd _Note_ that the _Scale_ of your comment struck a _Chord._ I'm going over the _Bridge_ and right to the _Bar_ to work-off a _Fifth_ for _Scale._
@@arduinoversusevil2025 It's a real nice item Fourier toolbox.
AC come, AC go
I come from former USSR and remember seeing very similar instrument long long time ago. It had the same springy metal flaps, but it was used, and I may be wrong, to show the frequency of the power supply network.
Correct, vibrating reed frequency meters work on the same principle. They have an electric exciter coil in the case to energise the reeds which are spring steel.
@@rayg9069 Yeah, I figured that it would have some sort of mass that is pushed around by the alternating magnetic field.
I wonder if the twisted pieces are to stop interference from standing waves inside the sealed casing ?
They are cool bits of kit.
I love how the Frahm logo shows how the instrument works (shows vibrating reeds with the A vibrating the most).
Mine goes from 4000 - 8000 RPM in two rows.
The top row indicates 4000 - 6000 and the bottom row indicates 6000 - 8000.
Fuckin cool instrument, the simplicity is damn near beautiful.
So cool.
I custom tune and re-build harmonicas, so I can appreciate the hand work that goes into those extended reeds.
R. Akers did you buy a house in hgtv 😂😂😂😂 (Jab jab)
@@sharksshark6212 lmfao
Then you sir are a wizard. I play harps and regard them as black magic , instruments of the devil.
@@tinman7781 google Richard Sleigh / hotrod harmonica and Brendan Power
I found them by accident when I inhereted 50 old harps, and got hooked on the hobby.
Sane players just use the tricks to do maintenance, since all of the custom tunings are now available at Sydel
I suspect the two people that disliked this video did so because they have nothing to put in the vise.
Joseph DESTAUBIN 😂 it’s 2019 one of em probably has something 😂
@@sharksshark6212 Yes, that's true, but as you implied, there's no telling what that something might be
Exactly 😂
Joseph DESTAUBIN they’re not “gentlemans” anymore
Tactical Ultimatum omfg 😂😂😂😂
My thoughts: "Wait.... are those prongs tuned to resonant frequency?!?!?!" ("Tines", I learned a new English word.) I've never seen one of those, thanks for showing, I love simple mechanical/analogue stuff like that!!
If you've ever used a fork, you've been eating off tines! Lol
Robert Lee I would’ve called them prongs, before. Tines are thin, (often) tapered prongs, right?
FloppyHares apparently they are nearly interchangeable but tines can be blunt or sharp. Forks and combs, however, have tines rather than prongs.
@@tsloth1390 Ah, OK, thanks for the explanation!
I love "old school" tools and devices. That thing is skoocum as frig!!!
These are still available, maybe not as tachometers, but they are used as frequency indicators on AC switchboards.
Cole-Parmer still sells them as tachometers. They're a bit pricy at about $500 a pop, though, with an additional $140 for NIST Calibration. (edit) I take that back. A quick search tells me that reasonable digital vibration tachometers go for around $400 to $800, so $640 for an analog tach that will essentially never die is well worth the money.
It's basically the same thing, except it has an electromagnet underneath them.
@@ke6gwf different range of frequencies, though - the ac frequency meters are set up to measure only a bit above and below 50Hz (or 60 if you are in an area with a 60Hz system)
It's like a Fourier Transform for mechanical vibration. I like it.
And now for friggs snacks, I need one. Connecticut swamp Yankee impulseski buy.
Early radio control systems used this principal. When a solenoid vibrated the Reed bank the one that resonated completed an electrical circuit....
Not 10 doll hairs just checked eBay 150 to 400 doll hairs
Up to 950 for other models
You missed him saying garage sale.
@@lukeoforcas that was a steal at $10. Yard sales can often yield great treasures.
Some of our power carts for aircraft still have these. They show 350-450hz. 400hz systems
Awesome! We used to have these on our old aircraft power generators, I never knew how they worked. So cool.
I gotta set me one of these up on the old bed post and see what she shakes at. :P thanks for another good one uncle B
It's a Reed tachometer, and we actually still use them for a secondary tach when doing turbine overspeed trip tests at my refinery.
0:50 probably is running about ~1500rpm because ~4500 isn't a harmonic of ~3100 but both are a harmonic of ~1500. Could also be 750rpm, or actually be running at 3000rpm and have a 2/3 gear ratio in there, who knows!
Cool stuff. Might be interesting to play around with a speaker and a frequency sweep.
That is really cool! Did you pre-order your $1200 Festool grinder? They have them at the Valley of the Lee store here in Coquitlam now. Ought to be an interesting BOLTR.
OK, I feel old. Reed Tachs were/are great little boxes. You had to be a little careful in that you might have a harmonic that was actually higher than the running speed, so you had to have an idea of what the speed was or you could get thrown off. But, they were great for watching variable speed machine spin up and had faster "updating" than some of the digital readouts back in the 1970s and 80s. And, not having to get something to trigger a tach off of on a running machine (shiny tape or key) made them really desirable at times.
Quality content as always! This would be a great teaching aid to have in a science classroom.
I remember years ago when I farted directly above the tapered metal coil spring within a mattress.
I must have hit the resonant frequency because there was both amplification and a metallic edge to the sound.
I have a SIR 4 'cello hanging above my couch. When I clear my throat it sometimes will resonate with me at "G".
Another type of ingenious and simple measurement device is the Eriez vibration displacement sticker. It is a paper sticker with a steep V printed on it . It is applied to the side of a vibratory feeder. When the feeder is vibrating the lines of the V will appear to cross at a point on the V which is equal to the vibration displacement. It is used to adjust the feeder to correct operation.
These are definitely still manufactured and in use. I use one ever y day at work to monitor the output frequency of a diesel generator.
A quick google of "vibrating reed tachometer" will net you a few manufacturers.
Seen these before on older ground power units for aircraft for gauging engine rpm to reach a certain generator frequency before closing the contact.
The version on my friends boat gen panel read from 50 to 70 hz. Allowing the governor to be adjusted on and of the 3 gen sets. 5kw, 25kw, 35kw.
I have a couple Treysit, Made in Germany, Sirometer vibrotachs. Not nearly as cool, but they work by the same principle, and must have been much cheaper to manufacture. The other upside is that their frequency range is quite a bit larger. 14 Hz to 800 Hz (800 RPM to 50,000 RPM indicated).
I think you can get one on Amazon for about $25 USD.
On a vibrating test bed where the test satellites and space craft etc, they have similar devices but much bigger bolted to the shake table, these tables are 3-4 inches thick, 40 feet in diameter,,, it's insane, blew my mind to see it in operation.
I've learned something interesting today. Thanks man
Wait when he says focus you fuck is he talking to us...damn must be my vision that goes blurry but that phrase just fixes it.
Had these on the old tugboats at Great Lakes Towing. IIRC they used them for rpm on some, and freq on others.
Too many beers ago. Memory is a bit fuzzy.
Lots of old tech survives in that fresh water! Heard a steamer on the Great Lakes still running an atmospheric condenser.
5 Tachometers disliked the video XD
What, no peak hold? haha Early tv remotes had a lil set of 'chimes' that would ring at different freqs to decode into different commands. But you prolly knew that. Love your channel sir.
That's why even today some people call a TV remote the "Clicker".
We still use these in the shop - quite common. They aren't cheap but you can buy them from Cole-Parmer Instrument Company LLC. `Vibrating Reed Tachometers`
There are some apps for your phone that do a similiar thing. Not as elegantly though. Let alone accurately. I mostly gave up :S
Super cool old school! Used them on some of our old steam turbines. They really well worked well!
Kinda same idea as a old mechanic I worked under had....
A "Treysit sirometer" 2cycle tach.
So simple it seems like FM (*#!ing Magic)
I brought a Treysit from a Briggs & Stratton parts catalogue a few years relatively accurate or good enough for tuning lawnmowers
Good grief, it's a mechanical spectrum analyzer!
had the same thought
Absolutely brilliant! Thanks for bringing finds like these forward AvE!
I hope you put that rod back into the exact holes it came from or it's gonna be outta tune.
Still made by stitchco. Still extremely expensive
Not all weeble wobble is bad
That shit is pure magic and you won't convince me otherwise!
Used these in the 90's on Detroit powered Hobart aircraft gen set's to get diesel rpm right for the 400hz requirement.
Diodesgonewild has one but his is an actual frequency meter with wires and stuff.
I think he even rewound the friggin thing to suit his home countries electrical stuff.
His came out of an airplane.
60$ last month - 400$ now. Thanks AvE!
Also Tecumseh makes a similar tool for small engines where you adjust the length of the wire to determine RPM, not as cool as this but same thought
When I bought mine in the late '80s, it was a Treysit Sirometer, made in West Germany. Tecumseh and Briggs both sold them through the parts department with their logos on the case, but sourced them through the same company.
AVE, love the videos, always a bright spot in my day. Thanks man.
I want.
To build one.
So I will. That is an awesome devise, do you have any detailed pictures to save the town some time in their odd hobbies?
Wow, I knew I've seen one of those before! I'm from PA and my father used to do the photography for Biddle Instruments in their catalogs. They were a client of his for many years and I have been out at their facility a few times to help him on location shoots for some of their bigger products. My father used to have a lot of their smaller things in his studio for up close shoots with proper lighting. I sort of remember handling one of those but I didn't really understand its purpose at the time. Thanks for the flashback.
I just received my 3 t'sharts for Fathersday. Thanks AvE. That is one cool tool.
They're still around every -60 power cart I've used has this for the Hz display
STICHT still sells them for schist and gaggles.
Our power supply for the Hercules aircraft use those! Glad you showed us the inside. Cool tech, always wondered. Thanks!
I have an old 800W honda generator with exactly the same thing for the hertz 50/60
You can find some on ebay for nearly 500CDN$ (vibrating reed tachometer).
Can get new ones around that price too. www.stichtco.com/vr_tachs.htm
And ebay is selling out or bids are going to be insane..... Already just got mine 😎
I used to have to catalog those things. They were tuned by musicians and came in a few ranges. We used them to check RPM for aircraft turbines and airframe vibrations. The P-3 Orion's had them in their special gear list. Getting them calibrated was a PITA, but the cal was good for like 5 years.
Always did love those. I worked on USAF generators that had them. Generators had to do 3-phase AC, 120 AND 240 volt, 396-404 Hz as read on the vibrating-reed gauge, from no load to full 7200KW and back to no load. 4-71 Detroit diesels with no turbo. If you were good, like me, you had them at 2 Hz fluctuation load/no load/load. Those reed gauges are range-limited but damned accurate and important for that level of tuning.
Get your freaking indicator out of the chips or I'm going to take a short drive North and smack you!!!!
“Whacks per minute” ~AvE 2019
My cars tach went out so I just use a bunch of tuning forks so I know how many vtecs im at.
There was also versions with electomagnet so you can measure voltage frequency.
MFW I see a new BOLTR uploaded 6 seconds ago, only to see week-old comments: :|
Patreons could see it already a week befor everyone else
almost seems like paying patreon gets you early access... i wonder if he's consudered doing that.
That thing rings a bell with me.......... got this odd feeling I've seen it before I just can't remember where?
That's going to bug me, damn it memory !! why you do this to me!!!
Listen to AvE talk and then listen to Negen (TWD) and tell me what you think.
Bingo!
I had a guitar tuner in the 70s that worked on the same principle. Sympathetic vibration.
Disney is advertising on your channel. Finally sold your soul for monetization?
Mechanical Surface Contact Tachometer. Sold on McMaster Carr for $355.38 (USA) 1000-4000 RPM. Catalog number 1419T3
Just FYI....
Check out the Briggs & Stratton 19200... same idea but adjustable 800hz-25khz. $24 on Amazon
I think that they used to use those for adjusting the RPM's on small engines also. A very brilliant idea. This goes to show the genus of Nikola Tesla, who in my mind is the father of anything to do with frequency, sound and vibration. And also electricity, if he had been successful and had his way there would be no power cables or phone wires cluttering up the skys EVERYTHING would have been wireless.
That is indeed brilliantly simple!
there is a retro video from something like bell labs or att, that had a mechanical wave visualizer. It was more or less a two sided one of these. I cant find it :( posting this so maybe someone else can place the name of it to find it for ya
Bored road trip kid fact: you can tell what speed you are going by putting a harmonica against your teeth and breathing through your nose. 👍 😁
Genuinely never seen one before! Now I know what to go raid in the old guards retirement box!
You know, it wouldn't be power-free, but you could pretty easily replicate this by replacing each reed with a band-pass LC filter, feeding into a dedicated "detector". The detector could be anything from a single diode & micro-amp relay controlling a lamp, to a single LED & an inductor (so long as the input power was low enough), to a Cray controlling a single lamp, per reed.
Could be anywhere from $10 per unit, to $10,000,000.
Just need a microphone input, and to replace each reed with a LC bandpass, feeding into it's own detector.
Just found one in my father's tool box. It is ranged from 7,000 to 11,000 RPM.
Still made Sticht Co $650 on Amazon. Herman H. Sticht Company. 45 Main Street, Brooklyn NY. I have used them many times to check concrete vibrators.
Doesn't work on my Lexus V8...
Cuz the fuel pump died.
Got three of the freak meters two still original military packaging . Use the third one my 45 year old Generac genset. In view of the rarity - especially with the 50 - 60 Hz readout, usable in those places in moose country where Hydro may take 60 Hz as a "suggestion", I'd donate one for protection of the Haas, if I only knew the location of Uncle B's identity protecting dropbox.....
...probably wouldn't work for my VW engine, considering that has...well...four bangers, and therefore four things that'd be vibrating. Though I wouldn't dare take it much higher than that 5, at least without knowing which crankshaft it has...
Searched the Gargle machine with the Jazz Hands for "Patent 186345" and came up with results for an improved spark arrester. WTH did I do wrong?
At 0:50 how do you know that the 4500 is a harmonic and the 3100-3200 is the fundamental frequency? From what I understand you know that 4500 isn't the primary because you don't have harmonics lower than the fundamental, but how do you know that the fundamental frequency wasn't somewhere below the reading range of the gauge (Besides reading the spec label on your machine)? Because we all know formulating expectations for a measurement almost always skews what we're willing to accept from a measuring instrument....
Yuppers. Ones on fleabay - various ranges - $350-400.00 Yankee greenbacks. Listed as "new". Yikes!
WTF? Over.
In your first measurement, both the 3200 and 4500 are harmonics. The base frequency is probably about 750Hz, which can be heard in the video. 750 is roughly a common divider of both.
Briggs & Stratton has sold a tool called a “Vibratach” for decades now. It’s used to set max rippums on small engines. It doesn’t use reeds, but works on the same resonance principle. I’ve used them many times. Still available AFAIK....
Very similar to a magnetic reed Hz meter, as used for generator output frequency checking/adjustment. (I guess you could call that a Huz freqe meter?). Lovely, old, cool, reliable, unconstiplicated devices with no electromagicaltronic gizmology to get busticated and letcher down!
Another piece of old electrical black magic are ferro resonant power supplies, not a semiconductor or piece of electronic wizardry anywhere, but they will maintain a fixed output voltage (say 200 VAC) for a very wide range of input voltages from about 50% to 150% of rated output. It's all done with leaky transformers, chokes, and resonant capacitors.
Those old engineers were real hoopy froods that knew where their towel was.
"$10? It'd be interesting to stick it to a bass, or maybe figure out wall resonances, or other fun... Oh, $159 on EBay..? Oh well."