At last, someone is brave enough to call out the hucksters on TV who peddle the myth of quick rebuilds with a nudge and a wink and smile to the camera. The Wheeler-dealer reference and the damage its done to the artisans who actually do the quality work is apt and defines for me the difference between entertainment and infotainment. I wish you well with this venture as its likely to be a master class in how to prepare and paint. Take heart from Iain Tyrrell's Classic Workshop- he started modestly and heading for 200k viewers and its addictive viewing.
A kitchen makover company informed a sole trader mate of mine he had been selected to do a job for the show. He was dead chuffed. So he drew up the design, all top quality, obviously, and they were happy with it. It was about £30K They wanted him to 'donate' this as "good advertising". He declined. Given that he had a six month waiting list for his services, he hardly needed advertising, satisfied customers, and word of mouth kept him busy.
Thanks my man. Im the owner of simmilar workshop in Ireland, my lads and me have to be fckn magicians in mechanic, welding, paintin, fitting, stripping..all that require ton of skill and patience. People simple do not understand that. Flat polishing for example.. small mistake and do it again. Or wrong angle or preasure on english wheel.. all fucked, do it again. Or broken crome stripe. Or windshield. Thanks on this, you gave me currage and support. Classic car restorer Ireland
In 1994, I helped a friend block my Triumph TR6. Not including the hardtop, the two of us were rubbing by hand for 3 days! I learned the true meaning of working my fingers to the bone and acquired a valuable insight into just how hard earned your money is!
I'm a self employed mechanic, I fix older farm machinery and also do a bit of classic car work. People expect me to work for peanuts saying that I do not have the same overheads as a main dealer and I do work cheaper, however, the overheads are there but kind of invisible eg. I do not have continuity like eight paid hours a day, I move from place to place, I spend time finding parts etc and I run a van, it all adds up and it is hard to make a good living unless you work vast hours. At the same time, I don't know how anyone can afford main dealer prices.
Hi there i own a classic car restauration co in France i have to explain everything you covered in this video to almost all of my clients especially in the last 3 years where costs have spiralled, so few people have any idea of the vast spectrum of skills needed to restore a classic properly and the lifetime investment it has taken to acquire them. I wish you all the best for the new year and only clients who truly appreciate what it takes to do what we do .
Having just about finished my second MGB, and having painted both of them, I agree. What people don't realise is the prep involved. It's not just the rubbing down , it's all the bits that have to be removed, the remedial work to the body, plus the hours of sanding and filling before you even start thinking about primer. Then you have the little areas that need filling again, then sanding. Once painted the flattening off, and in my case, 3 coats of clearcoat on top. I've done two.....that's me finished.
Hi , thanks for posting up this video.As a fellow seasoned car restorer with 40 years experience running a classic restoration workshop I am so glad you have put this video out telling it for real.Keep up the good work ,looking forward to some more real life Resto Stuff from your place
I charge 100/hour in the states plus materials, it is going to cost you 30,000 to have a car painted minimum, that is with zero panel replacement. The last one I did the customer had 20,000 in labor in welding in panels alone... he had near 50k in the paint and panel replacement. I typically tell people if the car is not worth 100k you can't afford to have me paint it.
I got Keith to do my Datsun because I wanted it done to a very high standard. Harrys car was a big factor in me choosing Keith to do mine. Car bodywork is minefield these days, cowboys everywhere. You can get it done cheaper, but if you want top work that you don’t have to go back to in 2-3yrs then be prepared to part with more cash than you originally planned for. Also don’t be afraid to travel to find the right place to do the work. It was a 150 mile round trip down to Eastbourne every time to visit the car but the finished product made it worth it. There is a lot to be said for peace of mind.
Forgot to mention Fantomworks with Dan Short. That struck me as the most realistic restoration shop on TV. The guy always went out of his way to detailing the work that was necessary and the likely costs. He didn’t try to hide anything from his prospective clients and at each step of the way kept them informed of unforeseen issues and costs. Sometimes folk either couldn’t or wouldn’t pay the extra and the corps were put on hold or the client would take the vehicle back to be self finished. At the end there was a sheaf of paperwork detailing all materials costing and labour and sometimes the final costs were eye watering and beyond the commercial value of the vehicles. But, as the owners admitted , some of the cars were like family members they had been family owned since new and they just wanted them properly restored. Yep, Fantomworks was sone of my favourite shows. We have a local VW specialist who has a good reputation in the VW fraternity. IRVS, and they do stunning work on classic VWs and Porch 956s. Eye watering prices but quality work. Good luck, the world needs more like you to succeed.
Excellent explanation of how it is in the REAL world of restoring & painting costs. I have had people's jaws drop when I tell them the price of a litre of solvent based base coats, and that's before the thinners, lacquer & hardeners etc. The prices of materials is just astronomic. Also, I have spent a whole week in the past just block wet flatting & polishing Bentley re paints. Even the cost of flatting papers & compounds etc is eye watering. Joe public really have no idea. Thanks again.
Excellent video. It's hard to believe you've only been doing this a few months. Interesting, engaging and very enlightening. I was quite surprised you only charge £65 per hour! I have quite a lot of mechanicing experience though I'm not a 'mechanic'. There's not much I haven't done to a car over the years including body repairs. I fully appreciate the skills of a proper restorer/bodyshop are next level if done correctly. Keep up the good work and all the best of luck with the channel and the business
Lovely video, Thank you. I have been in the mechanical side of automotive work for 45 years. My brother across the pond in the States has been in the accident repair business for about the same amount of time. I thoroughly agree and have seen the discrepancy in pricing between the fields, and can definitely attest to the price vs. quality aspect of the body work / paint trade. In my brother's business (being mostly paid by insurance companies), the trade has developed it's own "hours" system, where the cost per hour is half what it is in the mechanical trade, while the number of hours necessary for the repair is about double what it takes in real-time. I guess the systems just evolved that way. Love your show. For me it seems more like a Real reality show. Keep up the good work and the videos.
First of all, spot on with the so called reality shows and Mr. Brewer. Ed China has my respect as a craftsman, but is in a “reality” show, which diminishes his work, in my opinion. Another great show to watch for realistic content is RetroPower. I can certainly see how these “reality” shows are becoming the reference for many people and the reason you have to justify your pricing on a regular basis. A long but justified insight into your “world”. Glad I watched.
We do pretty much the same work as you guys. I’ve been approached by tv companies over the years on several occasions. Never done anything for them after several meetings. So that tells all you need to know.
You are spot on with these evaluations of TV shows! Anyone that has the slightest knowledge of the "trades" depicted on TV must have a really good laugh at the cost quoted, you can look at all of them from renovating a house in France, to re building a classic vehicle, there is just no possibility of getting a decent job done for the prices quoted, I really do not understand why they do it, we see 2 spivs plopping up a rust bucket with filler, spraying over the result, and giving some fictitious price , well. you get nothing for nothing. I watched a TV programme on having a swimming pool installed in France, the quoted price was 4,000 Euros! You could not even buy a rubber surface pool for that, so they must have left off a zero as 50,000 would be a more realistic cost, it does the professional trade no good giving out these ridiculous prices, the only thing I can say is that presenters look like a person who would sell a car in the rain under a street light. Stay true! Chris B.
Totally correct what you spoken. Quality work doesn’t come cheap, plus the experience to achieve this. I know this from a good friend of mine who always encounter the same expectations for nothing, like yourselves.
If you want to save some money on your restoration project, ask the shop if you can do some of the “prep”. Things like removing the interior, brightwork, etc. Then when the work is done, you put those items back on, again saving the shop time. These are things that can save you some cash.
Once again another very informative video, and on the subject of cost which as we all know is both subjective and controversial. I have known Keith for many years now and can say confidently that it is his honesty and integrity along with the fact that he is very aware of the cost implications that enabled him to remain competitive and still maintain a very high level of quality and finish.
A singularly candid and detailed description of the concerns in your field, which represents true artistic and technical skills. It's always thoroughly informative to hear an expert explain things. Please continue with the videos.
Excellent video and good to see the honesty and reality of the time & skill that goes in to bodywork and paint. One point you didn't mention is a lot of paint & body shops are not interested in classic car work as they just want a quick turn around & insurance jobs. I couldn't get any local body shops to paint my Jaguar XK OTS which was literally just a shell. Their just not interested in long term quality work they prefer quick turnover of panels off the car🤔 Cheers Dave
I totally agree. I’m 1200 hours into my resto and that is all body work and I’m still blocking. There is no way I could afford to pay someone to do this for me. Yup, wheeler dealers would have it knocked over in 53 hours and $3000 in paint. Sure…. Ya gotta love TV land.
What you have said makes perfect sense. You are probably brave making some comments. Good on you. I've worked in the motor body industry for many years and I absolutely see where you're coming from. Garry. NZ
What a brilliantly put video. I to work with classic cars as an auto electrician most of my work can't be seen but all the same I take pride in my work from rewires to repairs I'm quite lucky that I work for quite a few customers who have an understanding of what goes in to the job . There was a program on TV once with Brian Johnson of AC DC touring a super car manufacturer I forget who but all aspects were covered but once they came to the electrics it was said to be boring in was quickly brushed over . Well I'm sorry but without this your car is an expensive ornament ! Keep up your outstanding work you are a rare company in this day and age who knows there stuff 👍👍👍👍
Excellent video, we can never get away from the old addage 'you get what you pay for'. The antique shows are the same, nothing but entertainment and everyone now thinks they can walk in a shop and buy something for half the price!
Nicely thought out and communicated piece. In my experience, people will see an hourly rate and start comparing it to their full time salaries behind a keyboard in an office and then think they are being ripped off without taking into account any overhead cost or the fact you actually want to make a profit from what you are doing. You're not alone in your observations...
great video. Shaping body panels for classic cars and bike is what I do for a living. My hr rate is nowhere near 100,- but it feels like a battle every time you have to justify the number of hrs it takes to build something nice. People just don`t have a clue... how would they since they don`t have the skills themselfs. The only reference for most is tv shows. I love swinging hammers but those stupid financial / hours discussions take the joy out of my work.
Great video. I have "real" world experience with taking a solid stock 1960 Ford Falcon and through several specialists transforming it into a prize winning custom car. I used a friend's recommendation for bodywork and paint after all the mods were done. I admit this was 20 years ago, but when the guy gave me an estimate to do base coat clear coat paint it was $5000. I'm in the midwest US. I checked around and the best estimate I was able to get from well known body/paint guys was $12,000. I made the deal with the first guy and the results were fantastic....however, the final job ended up being $7500 because of items I added to the job. No one believed I got the quality of work for just that amount of money. $15,000 would have been more like it, but the two guys doing it worked for a friend of mine who ran the shop and I suspect I got the "friendly" price. I've watched lot of the car shows like wheeler dealer who give numbers, but I know better when they say how long and how much. My car was painted in 5 months, but I waited a year before they could start. The higher than expected prices for parts and materials today (Or any day) and a long wait time is typical and I suspect a reason why some cars disappear into sheds or the earth never to be seen again.
Best one at the moment is Richard Hammond, Smallest cog, let's people know what hours are involved, the cost of the business and what hourly rate should be to Keep the doors open, feel for you with rising costs. When I left the body trade we were charging £27.00 per hour for insurance and they were arguing over that😆
Ten years ago a mate had a 77 Pontiac Firebird restored and painted, needed new rear 1/4's got new door shells and some other repairs and all repainted, bill was 14K which seemed insane at the time, that'd be pretty reasonable now, saying that the car still looks amazing. I just got a classic Mini to restore, a rear Subframe used to be £150, they are now £350, my last Mini in 2008 had twin SU carbs i bought brand new for £550, the same carbs are now £1500, prices are just insane now.
Also people think that charging £65 per hour labour is a very good wage, but it isn't a 'wage' in reality. I think it is a lot to do with how we produce invoices. Consider the two examples below, and then folks may realize what really goes on in the real world.......... Parts £8000 Materials £1500 Labour £3250 (50 hours @ £65 p/h) SubTotal £12750 VAT £2550 Total £15,300 Parts £8000 Materials £1500 Wages £750 (50 hours @ £15 p/h) TAX & NI £250 Insurances £168 (£7000 per year divide by 2080 hours of a 40 hour week) Rent £1080 (45000) Rates £480 (20000) Electricity £204 (8500) Accountancy £36 (1500) Machinery &repairs £282 (11731) Sub Total £12750 VAT £2550 Total £15,300 Just an example, but much more realistic.
customer charged 65 per hour, employee earns 15. should the bill be job cost rather than some hourly rate as how does customer have any belief those hours were actually used
Just wanted to say from someone who runs four old cars (33, 26, 24 and 20 years old) and a modern car...as long as you're not being ripped off, you only get what you pay for. And, quality work on older cars is the only option, otherwise you're back again in a few years having it re-done! Owners of older cars (classic or otherwise) need to bear in mind that you're not losing anything from £400 to £1000 and month on depreciation, so maintain them, suffer the odd big bill, drive them and keep a smile on your face, because you're driving something interesting and enjoyable. Who ever got into a four year old Eurobox and said 'I'm really looking forward to this drive and I don't mind the £500 a month I'm losing in depreciation each month'? Or even worse, an EV ;-)
Totally agree with what he is saying, and especially programmes like "Wheeler dealers" I'm no expert, but even i could see that what was going on in the programme was not reflecting the true value!! I know a guy who is one of the best around here for bodywork and spraying. around 12 years ago we knew then that if someone wanted a proper job done, ie, a full respray, it would cost around the 10k mark! The same as what has been said in this video where people would expect a full respray for £800!!! I had the privilege of not only watching him work, but on the odd occasion even helping him when he broke his wrist! The man is an artist.
Really good video, you are bang on with everything you say. I know for a fact that a lot of the TV car restoration show is fake. They are just light entertainment. Like you say, Tim Shaw and Mike Brewer going round blagging free parts off everybody, I really wish that was real life, but it isn't. Some BMW and Mercedes Benz dealerships are over £180 an hour now, which is just ludicrous. I ran my own electronics service business for 40 years, nobody wanted to pay me for my skills, people don't realise how hard it is. You cannot charge for every hour you work unfortunately.
The three pillars of Project Management: Time, Cost, Quality. You can have 2 of them but you can never have all 3! Great video. Check out Metalworks in the USA. Love watching people paint cars. Thanks
Very interesting. I hope that as you become (even) better known you attract more work than you can accomodate and have the luxury of being able to turn down working for people with unrealistically low expectations as regards the cost of getting a high quality job done. Noone wants to work their socks off to find that, at the end of it, they haven't made any money. Good luck with the channel.
I have to agree totally with you, I worked in the body shop game over 40 years ago and it was the same then joe public excepted the job done for nothing, how much for a respray , it’s probably 40 hours this could easily double depending on what the customer wants to do a good repaint all the bits off and this doesn’t include welding just basic bodywork. Today parts are just unbelievable expensive and depending what paint your using huge costs, I watch Restopower Uk and there paint jobs must be 100 k sometimes given the work that goes into it. And Wheeler dealers does give a false idea of the costs never including the real labour time.
I was suprised when you said £65 an hour, that seems cheap. I have two classic Porsche restorers near me which I must admit are top of their game one who's hourly rates is over £100 an hour and one who restored my car was £80 and recently gone up £85 an hour.
If you want to have your classic repaired to a professional standard, then that is what it costs. A good repairer name will travel by word or mouth. I personally would put my trust in you.
Your so true in everything you said as a small bodyshop for 47 yrs i,ve come across so many idiots that don't understand costing . I restored an old Lambretta for a pal but made him come in every weekend and do the donkey work , it took over 12months and he realised what goes into this type off work and costs also using Novol products. The end result was lovely and still looks great 3 years down the line. Great video .
Your points are all valid, the UK is a very high-cost country as an ever-decreasing number of `Doe'rs` are paying for the `Service` industries that get more and more necessary because of legislation. I ask people what they do for a Living, and depending on their reply I can normally judge if they are going to be able to afford my services. Negotiation is not normally required, I explain the costs, offer an open book contract and as you say try to keep to the estimate. If they can't afford it, then smile and wave boys, smile and wave!
We live in a competitive world. That’s ok when comparing like for like. The problem is convincing people that what you produce is superior to the cheap guy next door. However, as you alluded to, not everyone needs show car perfection. It’s managing expectations that seems the most difficult thing to achieve.
I worked in a very expensive resto shop where the cars were "restored" in cost no object manner . I agree when you say some cars can sit for years in the shop, mostly because the owner has run out of money or wants to defer the job for some reason or other and that floor space costs money. I had a lady call in one day to see how her car was progressing...a BMW 3.0CSi. She said life had gotten in the way and she had forgotten about it .Forgotten for 23 years! It had morphed into a shelf over the years. LOL!. Electric costs are my second biggest expense and I see it happening in places all over the western world,and to me the reason appears to be,to force consumption down,thus creating less CO2 and saving the planet. there doesn't appear to be any other reason .
2:05 - 2:40 "Everythings gone up......". Another Brexit benefit!! 🤣As for re-sprays, some years back when fiddling around with cars I had an old Moggie 1000 which was ok mechanically but the paint was tired and needed attention. I couldn't afford a re-spray so decided to try a brush paint called Re-Paint made by Parsons (this was 50 years ago so I expect its another brand now). I prepped the car using grades of wet 'n dry, all by hand which was damned hard work! After the final coat had dried the result was really amazing and was always chuffed when folk asked where I'd had it re-sprayed!!
I totally concur! These TV programs are pure fiction and basically entertainment. They make a lot of money for Motor Trend and Discovery channels. I think this is one of the main reasons why Edd left Mike years ago. These TV programs do not help the classic car owner and the classic car restoration workshops.
You are absolutely making sense! I would add a deteriorating GBP (thanks to your government) which certainly doesn’t help on the parts side of things. Buying out of a country with a strong currency parts have actually become cheaper for us believe it or not.
With vintage aircraft we come up with an estimate of time & cost. Then we double one & triple the other. The last 10% of the work takes 90% of the time. :)
I celebrated 40 years this June as a sole trader . I am an Engineer running my small machine shop . I manufacture anything I can that comes through my workshop door ,over the years I have made parts ,assemblies for industrial locomotives, food factories,brick works , ceramic factories, motor industry all by hand . I served a traditional indentured apprenticeship and studied in total 7 years at technical college to achieve HNC in mechanical Engineering. Engineering is incredibly capital intensive requiring very expensive machine tools , tooling and equipment, what I have has taken me 40 years to accumulate and still there is always another piece of tooling ,equipment that you need and of course has to be replaced as things wear . Through experience over the years I have learned to avoid Joe public like the plague if I can , most people simply have no clue what so ever on how much things actually cost , given that you have to charge an hourly rate to cover all of the machinery,tooling equipment that you use , never mind the skill and knowledge. I have had more than my my fair share of people with an obsolete part for their classic car or even worse motorcycle ask you to make something and then expect payment to be a pat on the back and a £10 /£20 note for a days work . Being a sole trader is a thankless task now in this country,personally at present I wouldn’t advise it , over the years any incentive ,any advantages , have been taxed away and legislated away by successive governments no matter which colour rosette they wear . I read yesterday a very small snippet on a news site that for the first time since the industrial revolution, Britain is now out of worlds list of top ten manufacturing nations, we are now positioned twelfth ! Yes that’s right birthplace of the industrial revolution, the nation that dragged the world into the modern Industrial Age , twelfth. Is it any wonder we have a £2.3 trillion debt .
My local powder coater drives a Porsche Macan with a private plate. Even ignoring materials, people are expensive. Mortgages, kids, holidays, nice cars, etc.
You are absolutely correct!! when restoring and painting a classic car just the finishing process alone can be hundreds of hours without the bodywork before hand. It's all of the seemingly impossible deadlines that makes me laugh with theses programs. And why o why would any sane owner of a really expensive classic spend what it's worth turning it into an EV, the minute you take the engine out you destroy the value. Nis job on old Harry's jag by the way. ❤The Channel "Thanks"
Everyone knows Edd China works for 7p an hour! I do bodywork and the amount of hours behind every job is huge, people thinks it's just wheeling it in the spray booth and hey presto. Could not agree more. Most vehicles it's more than the cars worth to re-paint
Race to the bottom is what the world has turned into unfortunately. Classic car maintenance and restorations have become a pastime for the very wealthy. Mega quality work going on there for £65 ph. I hope you guys can keep the business going for years to come.
With the prices of panels and materials spiralling, and the value of the cars declining, I cannot see many people bothering to restore things like MK2 Jags in the future.
Horses for Courses I guess. Many years ago when I worked in the second hand car trade I had a guy who only worked for the trade. The guy worked at night and slept in the day. He worked in his double garage and was very cheap and used the absolute minimum of paint. The cars always came back looking great but I wouldn't have wanted to see them a couple of years down the line. These were cheap cars though - but they always sold!
A c lassic car , maybe an investment, certainly not if driven on the road and insured for that . A very rich mans hobby and have the correct car as well , thank you ...good informative real video of fact ...
Don't know if it's the skills needed or the expensive dedicated equipment, youth of today soon get to grips with the diagnostic equipment but then just change the bit the computer points to, if that dosen't fix the problem move on to the next component in the cobweb of electrical demons. Customer pays 😒 When the problem could easily be a bad earth connection sending white noise crackle around the vehicle.
Great video, I fully understand where your coming from. I'm a born fiddler. I just love tinkering and paint finishing has always fascinated me, I'll spend hours getting the right finish to the craziest of things not just car panels. It takes ages, but then most of the time I'm not sure what I'm doing! so probably reinventing the wheel 😂 Great to have things like TH-cam to point me in the right direction. PS I'm old and retired so keeps me active, I often think" I'll just do so an so" three hours later I've hardly scratched the surface of the task 😊 Keep the videos coming it's great to see true craftsman's work rather than tradesmans fixings 👍
£40.00 per hour !!!!!! So workers there have no chance to pay the rent and food and etc...keep it up islanders work hard and you too will get on .... on what?????? Good comments on video transcript ...good script ...honest reflections on reality .....
Even watching only about half of your video, I can ABSOLUTELY state that it IS EXACTLY then same in building. People ROUTINELY compare ONLY the price instead of a "apples to apples" detailed scope of the work and THE MATERIALS !! So one electrician is quoting a "romex" electrical system while the next guy is quoting a "hard conduit" system. You will get the same voltage coming out of your receptacles but those two systems are definitely NOT THE SAME !!! For one major thing, try and modify the wiring "WITHOUT OPENING UP THE WALLS" with the romex system as compared to the conduit system. Between the materials and labor, likely double the cost with the conduit system. Yet people don't even realize they are NOT comparing the same job !!! In your case, might be like comparing glued, flanged, panel repair seams VS welded, butt joined, panel seams.
Mike Brewer after selling a car they had worked on that they made a small profit, but no mention of the hours Ed China spent on it no mention of cost of running the workshop rents, rates, etc. It's more likely that the were thousands of pounds in the red. On the other hand if Ed China could do all the work he did for what they say it cost, they would be swamped with work.
Great video. Add the internet to the fantasy pedaling world. If you google the price for reupholstering a car seat you'll get an absurdly low number that any buyer will then leverage, not understanding all the variables...Al is going to make this a lot worse sadly.
We used to get people coming in and having cars resprayed yrs qgo it dont happen now its too expensive we did a vw van and the bill was 6k for a respray with various repairs to the body
I paint my own cars. Average costs me around $800. Not including panels, rust repairs: that's not painting. So if you do it yourself, out of pocket is around $800 per car, good paint, superb results if you put in the hours of course.
Classic car ownership is a pretty middle class thing, many owners are so-called professionals - lawyers, accountants, bankers and so on. Quite why they feel justified in charging hundreds of pounds per hour while they expect people, who are skilled and doing real hard work, to tend to their needs for a fraction of that has always been a mystery to me.
I am an Engineer,self employed sole trader machinist and in my 40 year of trading at 62 years old . I did a traditional indentured Engineering apprenticeship and a total of seven years at technical college 1978-1985 finally achieving my HNC in mechanical engineering. 99% of my work is industrial,manufacturing anything that comes into my workshop from industrial locomotive components , Brick works ,food industry,wind turbines , ceramics industry, car industry , I will make anything my machinery enables me to , all by hand , from a wide variety of materials. The number of times Joe public has rocked up with an obsolete,broken part and asked me if I can make it for them ,expecting a £20 job or the same cost of buying a mass produced part . Most people have absolutely no idea how long a 1 off or a few hand made parts can take ,let alone the knowledge,skill . The capital expense in Engineering is horrendous ,you are constantly needing tooling and of course wearing out your machinery . Most of the public regardless of their personal wealth expect a Saville row suit for a George at Asda price .
I find Car SOS very enjoyable, but you can clearly see cars that have featured in other episodes in the background, so much of what is shown is clearly from TV Land, not reality.
I suspect that despite your well articulated explanation, that people who are unable to discern the difference between tv entertainment & the real world will also struggle to grasp that your hourly rate isn't simply the cost of labour. Ultimately, the quality of your work will ensure that you can command a sensible return for your efforts but i fear you will always have to contend with the uneducated bargain hunters.
What people do not realise that when you do a paint job you are looking through the paint at the substrate and if you do not get your preparation right it does not matter how good a sprayer is used it will show all the imperfections and come off. I had my Triumph 2500S Accident Repaired and Restored at the same time where we found rust, it was painted in cellulose and I personally flatted all that down myself and my did it look good in White - as good if not better than it came out of the factory but it did not last and although that was in 1987 and it is now 2024 and I took it off the road in1990 it now needs a complete strip and cooked to remove all the paint because there are now holes on flat surfaces where there was no rust before. Ironically we did not paint the flitch panels and they were left as supplied by Triumph in 1976 and that is the only area that has Not Deteriorated. I want to redo it in cellulose because I do not like the poured plastic effect of 2K. I do not know what Triumph were using in the 1970's but it was not either 2k or Cellulose but I understand Acrylic. Cellulose at that time was used for refinishing. So whatever was on my car was treated to a 2K primer and then Cellulose and it has reacted and is coming off in large chunks and underneath there is rust! That was the recommendation by this restorer bodyshop who did classic work around the big local ford dealership's requirements What do you think about using Cellulose paint today please and any comments about the above would be very welcome
I have been in the motor trade since the 80s, its never been any different, the public have never had a clue about the cost of quality paint work. There has always been a race to the bottom , if you can't make a profit dont do the job. There is nothing different now, except reality tv, than was happening in the 80s.
Spot on with the estimates. Wheeler dealers, Homes Under hammer with property. All nonsense and misleading. I've seen a Victorian house restored, new bathrooms, kitchen, rewired, windows. £10k. Just nonsense.
At last, someone is brave enough to call out the hucksters on TV who peddle the myth of quick rebuilds with a nudge and a wink and smile to the camera. The Wheeler-dealer reference and the damage its done to the artisans who actually do the quality work is apt and defines for me the difference between entertainment and infotainment. I wish you well with this venture as its likely to be a master class in how to prepare and paint. Take heart from Iain Tyrrell's Classic Workshop- he started modestly and heading for 200k viewers and its addictive viewing.
Great to watch IT, but still not sure how he does million pound restoration, and doesn’t get any dirt on the floor or on his hands?
Hours spent blocking a car down is weeks, I'm doing my car at the moment. Your the first person to be bloody truthful about the tele shows! Spot on
A kitchen makover company informed a sole trader mate of mine he had been selected to do a job for the show.
He was dead chuffed.
So he drew up the design, all top quality, obviously, and they were happy with it.
It was about £30K
They wanted him to 'donate' this as "good advertising".
He declined.
Given that he had a six month waiting list for his services, he hardly needed advertising, satisfied customers, and word of mouth kept him busy.
As a business owner, with a body shop I’ll concur with every word you’ve said…. Fair play for highlighting this.👍🏻👌🏼🙏🏼
Thanks my man. Im the owner of simmilar workshop in Ireland, my lads and me have to be fckn magicians in mechanic, welding, paintin, fitting, stripping..all that require ton of skill and patience. People simple do not understand that. Flat polishing for example.. small mistake and do it again. Or wrong angle or preasure on english wheel.. all fucked, do it again. Or broken crome stripe. Or windshield. Thanks on this, you gave me currage and support. Classic car restorer Ireland
In 1994, I helped a friend block my Triumph TR6. Not including the hardtop, the two of us were rubbing by hand for 3 days! I learned the true meaning of working my fingers to the bone and acquired a valuable insight into just how hard earned your money is!
I'm a self employed mechanic, I fix older farm machinery and also do a bit of classic car work. People expect me to work for peanuts saying that I do not have the same overheads as a main dealer and I do work cheaper, however, the overheads are there but kind of invisible eg. I do not have continuity like eight paid hours a day, I move from place to place, I spend time finding parts etc and I run a van, it all adds up and it is hard to make a good living unless you work vast hours. At the same time, I don't know how anyone can afford main dealer prices.
bangers and cash restoring classics shows you the reality
I agree. That program is utter rubbish. Shouldn't be allowed to hit the screen.
Hi there i own a classic car restauration co in France i have to explain everything you covered in this video to almost all of my clients especially in the last 3 years where costs have spiralled, so few people have any idea of the vast spectrum of skills needed to restore a classic properly and the lifetime investment it has taken to acquire them. I wish you all the best for the new year and only clients who truly appreciate what it takes to do what we do .
Having just about finished my second MGB, and having painted both of them, I agree. What people don't realise is the prep involved. It's not just the rubbing down , it's all the bits that have to be removed, the remedial work to the body, plus the hours of sanding and filling before you even start thinking about primer. Then you have the little areas that need filling again, then sanding. Once painted the flattening off, and in my case, 3 coats of clearcoat on top. I've done two.....that's me finished.
Hi , thanks for posting up this video.As a fellow seasoned car restorer with 40 years experience running a classic restoration workshop I am so glad you have put this video out telling it for real.Keep up the good work ,looking forward to some more real life Resto Stuff from your place
I charge 100/hour in the states plus materials, it is going to cost you 30,000 to have a car painted minimum, that is with zero panel replacement. The last one I did the customer had 20,000 in labor in welding in panels alone... he had near 50k in the paint and panel replacement. I typically tell people if the car is not worth 100k you can't afford to have me paint it.
I got Keith to do my Datsun because I wanted it done to a very high standard. Harrys car was a big factor in me choosing Keith to do mine.
Car bodywork is minefield these days, cowboys everywhere. You can get it done cheaper, but if you want top work that you don’t have to go back to in 2-3yrs then be prepared to part with more cash than you originally planned for.
Also don’t be afraid to travel to find the right place to do the work. It was a 150 mile round trip down to Eastbourne every time to visit the car but the finished product made it worth it. There is a lot to be said for peace of mind.
Wonderful episode, great reality check.
Everything you say makes sense. Don't worry about the stupid comments, that's life. You sound very grounded and I wish you well.
Thank you for the reality check
Forgot to mention Fantomworks with Dan Short. That struck me as the most realistic restoration shop on TV. The guy always went out of his way to detailing the work that was necessary and the likely costs. He didn’t try to hide anything from his prospective clients and at each step of the way kept them informed of unforeseen issues and costs. Sometimes folk either couldn’t or wouldn’t pay the extra and the corps were put on hold or the client would take the vehicle back to be self finished. At the end there was a sheaf of paperwork detailing all materials costing and labour and sometimes the final costs were eye watering and beyond the commercial value of the vehicles. But, as the owners admitted , some of the cars were like family members they had been family owned since new and they just wanted them properly restored. Yep, Fantomworks was sone of my favourite shows. We have a local VW specialist who has a good reputation in the VW fraternity. IRVS, and they do stunning work on classic VWs and Porch 956s. Eye watering prices but quality work. Good luck, the world needs more like you to succeed.
Thank you for your kind comments sir - much appreciated.
Excellent explanation of how it is in the REAL world of restoring & painting costs.
I have had people's jaws drop when I tell them the price of a litre of solvent based base coats, and that's before the thinners, lacquer & hardeners etc.
The prices of materials is just astronomic.
Also, I have spent a whole week in the past just block wet flatting & polishing Bentley re paints.
Even the cost of flatting papers & compounds etc is eye watering.
Joe public really have no idea.
Thanks again.
Excellent video. It's hard to believe you've only been doing this a few months. Interesting, engaging and very enlightening. I was quite surprised you only charge £65 per hour! I have quite a lot of mechanicing experience though I'm not a 'mechanic'. There's not much I haven't done to a car over the years including body repairs. I fully appreciate the skills of a proper restorer/bodyshop are next level if done correctly. Keep up the good work and all the best of luck with the channel and the business
Lovely video, Thank you. I have been in the mechanical side of automotive work for 45 years. My brother across the pond in the States has been in the accident repair business for about the same amount of time. I thoroughly agree and have seen the discrepancy in pricing between the fields, and can definitely attest to the price vs. quality aspect of the body work / paint trade. In my brother's business (being mostly paid by insurance companies), the trade has developed it's own "hours" system, where the cost per hour is half what it is in the mechanical trade, while the number of hours necessary for the repair is about double what it takes in real-time. I guess the systems just evolved that way.
Love your show. For me it seems more like a Real reality show. Keep up the good work and the videos.
First of all, spot on with the so called reality shows and Mr. Brewer. Ed China has my respect as a craftsman, but is in a “reality” show, which diminishes his work, in my opinion. Another great show to watch for realistic content is RetroPower.
I can certainly see how these “reality” shows are becoming the reference for many people and the reason you have to justify your pricing on a regular basis. A long but justified insight into your “world”. Glad I watched.
We do pretty much the same work as you guys. I’ve been approached by tv companies over the years on several occasions. Never done anything for them after several meetings. So that tells all you need to know.
You are spot on with these evaluations of TV shows! Anyone that has the slightest knowledge of the "trades" depicted on TV must have a really good laugh at the cost quoted, you can look at all of them from renovating a house in France, to re building a classic vehicle, there is just no possibility of getting a decent job done for the prices quoted, I really do not understand why they do it, we see 2 spivs plopping up a rust bucket with filler, spraying over the result, and giving some fictitious price , well. you get nothing for nothing. I watched a TV programme on having a swimming pool installed in France, the quoted price was 4,000 Euros! You could not even buy a rubber surface pool for that, so they must have left off a zero as 50,000 would be a more realistic cost, it does the professional trade no good giving out these ridiculous prices, the only thing I can say is that presenters look like a person who would sell a car in the rain under a street light. Stay true! Chris B.
Totally correct what you spoken. Quality work doesn’t come cheap, plus the experience to achieve this. I know this from a good friend of mine who always encounter the same expectations for nothing, like yourselves.
If you want to save some money on your restoration project, ask the shop if you can do some of the “prep”. Things like removing the interior, brightwork, etc. Then when the work is done, you put those items back on, again saving the shop time. These are things that can save you some cash.
Once again another very informative video, and on the subject of cost which as we all know is both subjective and controversial. I have known Keith for many years now and can say confidently that it is his honesty and integrity along with the fact that he is very aware of the cost implications that enabled him to remain competitive and still maintain a very high level of quality and finish.
A singularly candid and detailed description of the concerns in your field, which represents true artistic and technical skills. It's always thoroughly informative to hear an expert explain things.
Please continue with the videos.
Excellent video and good to see the honesty and reality of the time & skill that goes in to bodywork and paint. One point you didn't mention is a lot of paint & body shops are not interested in classic car work as they just want a quick turn around & insurance jobs. I couldn't get any local body shops to paint my Jaguar XK OTS
which was literally just a shell. Their just not interested in long term quality work they prefer quick turnover of panels off the car🤔 Cheers Dave
Excellent presentation, hope all of our customers see this!!
Well done for pointing out the truth and showing up cowboys standard of workmanship and shortcuts.
Excellent accurate report I had an insurance repair on my Audi. It came to £14.000. This is real life.
I totally agree. I’m 1200 hours into my resto and that is all body work and I’m still blocking. There is no way I could afford to pay someone to do this for me. Yup, wheeler dealers would have it knocked over in 53 hours and $3000 in paint. Sure…. Ya gotta love TV land.
What you have said makes perfect sense. You are probably brave making some comments. Good on you. I've worked in the motor body industry for many years and I absolutely see where you're coming from.
Garry. NZ
Keith never let me down always exelent work keep the good work up Keith and all your lads
What a brilliantly put video. I to work with classic cars as an auto electrician most of my work can't be seen but all the same I take pride in my work from rewires to repairs I'm quite lucky that I work for quite a few customers who have an understanding of what goes in to the job . There was a program on TV once with Brian Johnson of AC DC touring a super car manufacturer I forget who but all aspects were covered but once they came to the electrics it was said to be boring in was quickly brushed over . Well I'm sorry but without this your car is an expensive ornament ! Keep up your outstanding work you are a rare company in this day and age who knows there stuff 👍👍👍👍
I think if you're a car enthusiast you know that wheeler dealer was a joke but I still watched it ! ❤
Excellent video, we can never get away from the old addage 'you get what you pay for'. The antique shows are the same, nothing but entertainment and everyone now thinks they can walk in a shop and buy something for half the price!
Nicely thought out and communicated piece. In my experience, people will see an hourly rate and start comparing it to their full time salaries behind a keyboard in an office and then think they are being ripped off without taking into account any overhead cost or the fact you actually want to make a profit from what you are doing. You're not alone in your observations...
Great video and well done- I can feel your frustration.
great video and honesty
Very valid and informative as a garage and bodyshop owner we see these issues and compromises on a daily basis, keep the videos comming
great video. Shaping body panels for classic cars and bike is what I do for a living. My hr rate is nowhere near 100,- but it feels like a battle every time you have to justify the number of hrs it takes to build something nice. People just don`t have a clue... how would they since they don`t have the skills themselfs. The only reference for most is tv shows. I love swinging hammers but those stupid financial / hours discussions take the joy out of my work.
A very nice explanation, further info on inspection, unexpected (variables), and upgrades
Great video. I have "real" world experience with taking a solid stock 1960 Ford Falcon and through several specialists transforming it into a prize winning custom car. I used a friend's recommendation for bodywork and paint after all the mods were done. I admit this was 20 years ago, but when the guy gave me an estimate to do base coat clear coat paint it was $5000. I'm in the midwest US. I checked around and the best estimate I was able to get from well known body/paint guys was $12,000. I made the deal with the first guy and the results were fantastic....however, the final job ended up being $7500 because of items I added to the job. No one believed I got the quality of work for just that amount of money. $15,000 would have been more like it, but the two guys doing it worked for a friend of mine who ran the shop and I suspect I got the "friendly" price. I've watched lot of the car shows like wheeler dealer who give numbers, but I know better when they say how long and how much. My car was painted in 5 months, but I waited a year before they could start. The higher than expected prices for parts and materials today (Or any day) and a long wait time is typical and I suspect a reason why some cars disappear into sheds or the earth never to be seen again.
In Australia it’s the same. Paint is now $2000 for a quality PPG 2K, a resto on an average 70’s car is 50K.
Very interesting and insightful video. Makes a lot of sense. Good wishes for your channel ... 🇬🇧
Best one at the moment is Richard Hammond, Smallest cog, let's people know what hours are involved, the cost of the business and what hourly rate should be to Keep the doors open, feel for you with rising costs. When I left the body trade we were charging £27.00 per hour for insurance and they were arguing over that😆
Excellent video. Really great info. Thank you
Loved the honesty, new subscriber!
Ten years ago a mate had a 77 Pontiac Firebird restored and painted, needed new rear 1/4's got new door shells and some other repairs and all repainted, bill was 14K which seemed insane at the time, that'd be pretty reasonable now, saying that the car still looks amazing. I just got a classic Mini to restore, a rear Subframe used to be £150, they are now £350, my last Mini in 2008 had twin SU carbs i bought brand new for £550, the same carbs are now £1500, prices are just insane now.
Enjoyed this Keith
Stopped watching wheeler dealers when Ed China left the series
Great video by the way.
Also people think that charging £65 per hour labour is a very good wage, but it isn't a 'wage' in reality. I think it is a lot to do with how we produce invoices. Consider the two examples below, and then folks may realize what really goes on in the real world..........
Parts £8000
Materials £1500
Labour £3250 (50 hours @ £65 p/h)
SubTotal £12750
VAT £2550
Total £15,300
Parts £8000
Materials £1500
Wages £750 (50 hours @ £15 p/h)
TAX & NI £250
Insurances £168 (£7000 per year divide by 2080 hours of a 40 hour week)
Rent £1080 (45000)
Rates £480 (20000)
Electricity £204 (8500)
Accountancy £36 (1500)
Machinery &repairs £282 (11731)
Sub Total £12750
VAT £2550
Total £15,300
Just an example, but much more realistic.
customer charged 65 per hour, employee earns 15. should the bill be job cost rather than some hourly rate as how does customer have any belief those hours were actually used
doesnt that 15300 have no profit margin ?
Just wanted to say from someone who runs four old cars (33, 26, 24 and 20 years old) and a modern car...as long as you're not being ripped off, you only get what you pay for. And, quality work on older cars is the only option, otherwise you're back again in a few years having it re-done! Owners of older cars (classic or otherwise) need to bear in mind that you're not losing anything from £400 to £1000 and month on depreciation, so maintain them, suffer the odd big bill, drive them and keep a smile on your face, because you're driving something interesting and enjoyable. Who ever got into a four year old Eurobox and said 'I'm really looking forward to this drive and I don't mind the £500 a month I'm losing in depreciation each month'? Or even worse, an EV ;-)
Excellent honest video. Thank You
Totally agree with what he is saying, and especially programmes like "Wheeler dealers" I'm no expert, but even i could see that what was going on in the programme was not reflecting the true value!! I know a guy who is one of the best around here for bodywork and spraying. around 12 years ago we knew then that if someone wanted a proper job done, ie, a full respray, it would cost around the 10k mark! The same as what has been said in this video where people would expect a full respray for £800!!! I had the privilege of not only watching him work, but on the odd occasion even helping him when he broke his wrist! The man is an artist.
Really good video, you are bang on with everything you say. I know for a fact that a lot of the TV car restoration show is fake. They are just light entertainment. Like you say, Tim Shaw and Mike Brewer going round blagging free parts off everybody, I really wish that was real life, but it isn't. Some BMW and Mercedes Benz dealerships are over £180 an hour now, which is just ludicrous. I ran my own electronics service business for 40 years, nobody wanted to pay me for my skills, people don't realise how hard it is. You cannot charge for every hour you work unfortunately.
The three pillars of Project Management: Time, Cost, Quality. You can have 2 of them but you can never have all 3! Great video. Check out Metalworks in the USA. Love watching people paint cars. Thanks
Very interesting. I hope that as you become (even) better known you attract more work than you can accomodate and have the luxury of being able to turn down working for people with unrealistically low expectations as regards the cost of getting a high quality job done. Noone wants to work their socks off to find that, at the end of it, they haven't made any money. Good luck with the channel.
Excellent video.
I have to agree totally with you, I worked in the body shop game over 40 years ago and it was the same then joe public excepted the job done for nothing, how much for a respray , it’s probably 40 hours this could easily double depending on what the customer wants to do a good repaint all the bits off and this doesn’t include welding just basic bodywork. Today parts are just unbelievable expensive and depending what paint your using huge costs, I watch Restopower Uk and there paint jobs must be 100 k sometimes given the work that goes into it. And Wheeler dealers does give a false idea of the costs never including the real labour time.
I was suprised when you said £65 an hour, that seems cheap. I have two classic Porsche restorers near me which I must admit are top of their game one who's hourly rates is over £100 an hour and one who restored my car was £80 and recently gone up £85 an hour.
If you want to have your classic repaired to a professional standard, then that is what it costs. A good repairer name will travel by word or mouth. I personally would put my trust in you.
Your so true in everything you said as a small bodyshop for 47 yrs i,ve come across so many idiots that don't understand costing . I restored an old Lambretta for a pal but made him come in every weekend and do the donkey work , it took over 12months and he realised what goes into this type off work and costs also using Novol products. The end result was lovely and still looks great 3 years down the line. Great video .
Your points are all valid, the UK is a very high-cost country as an ever-decreasing number of `Doe'rs` are paying for the `Service` industries that get more and more necessary because of legislation. I ask people what they do for a Living, and depending on their reply I can normally judge if they are going to be able to afford my services. Negotiation is not normally required, I explain the costs, offer an open book contract and as you say try to keep to the estimate. If they can't afford it, then smile and wave boys, smile and wave!
We live in a competitive world. That’s ok when comparing like for like. The problem is convincing people that what you produce is superior to the cheap guy next door. However, as you alluded to, not everyone needs show car perfection. It’s managing expectations that seems the most difficult thing to achieve.
I worked in a very expensive resto shop where the cars were "restored" in cost no object manner . I agree when you say some cars can sit for years in the shop, mostly because the owner has run out of money or wants to defer the job for some reason or other and that floor space costs money. I had a lady call in one day to see how her car was progressing...a BMW 3.0CSi. She said life had gotten in the way and she had forgotten about it .Forgotten for 23 years! It had morphed into a shelf over the years. LOL!.
Electric costs are my second biggest expense and I see it happening in places all over the western world,and to me the reason appears to be,to force consumption down,thus creating less CO2 and saving the planet. there doesn't appear to be any other reason .
I couldn't agree with you more!!!
In the 1970s there was a firm in London that did same day drive in drive out resprays for 25 quid.
Top quality then?
Great video 👍 The best thing to do is do you want the tv price or the price 😅😅😅.The what we tell people get some estimates from other panel shops.
2:05 - 2:40 "Everythings gone up......". Another Brexit benefit!! 🤣As for re-sprays, some years back when fiddling around with cars I had an old Moggie 1000 which was ok mechanically but the paint was tired and needed attention. I couldn't afford a re-spray so decided to try a brush paint called Re-Paint made by Parsons (this was 50 years ago so I expect its another brand now). I prepped the car using grades of wet 'n dry, all by hand which was damned hard work! After the final coat had dried the result was really amazing and was always chuffed when folk asked where I'd had it re-sprayed!!
I totally concur! These TV programs are pure fiction and basically entertainment. They make a lot of money for Motor Trend and Discovery channels. I think this is one of the main reasons why Edd left Mike years ago. These TV programs do not help the classic car owner and the classic car restoration workshops.
You are absolutely making sense! I would add a deteriorating GBP (thanks to your government) which certainly doesn’t help on the parts side of things. Buying out of a country with a strong currency parts have actually become cheaper for us believe it or not.
With vintage aircraft we come up with an estimate of time & cost. Then we double one & triple the other. The last 10% of the work takes 90% of the time. :)
Can you say how much an average hourly rate at a restoration shop is in the UK?
Thanks
@@papaloongie it varies from £50-120ph at the moment.
I celebrated 40 years this June as a sole trader . I am an Engineer running my small machine shop . I manufacture anything I can that comes through my workshop door ,over the years I have made parts ,assemblies for industrial locomotives, food factories,brick works , ceramic factories, motor industry all by hand . I served a traditional indentured apprenticeship and studied in total 7 years at technical college to achieve HNC in mechanical Engineering. Engineering is incredibly capital intensive requiring very expensive machine tools , tooling and equipment, what I have has taken me 40 years to accumulate and still there is always another piece of tooling ,equipment that you need and of course has to be replaced as things wear . Through experience over the years I have learned to avoid Joe public like the plague if I can , most people simply have no clue what so ever on how much things actually cost , given that you have to charge an hourly rate to cover all of the machinery,tooling equipment that you use , never mind the skill and knowledge. I have had more than my my fair share of people with an obsolete part for their classic car or even worse motorcycle ask you to make something and then expect payment to be a pat on the back and a £10 /£20 note for a days work .
Being a sole trader is a thankless task now in this country,personally at present I wouldn’t advise it , over the years any incentive ,any advantages , have been taxed away and legislated away by successive governments no matter which colour rosette they wear .
I read yesterday a very small snippet on a news site that for the first time since the industrial revolution, Britain is now out of worlds list of top ten manufacturing nations, we are now positioned twelfth ! Yes that’s right birthplace of the industrial revolution, the nation that dragged the world into the modern Industrial Age , twelfth. Is it any wonder we have a £2.3 trillion debt .
My local powder coater drives a Porsche Macan with a private plate. Even ignoring materials, people are expensive. Mortgages, kids, holidays, nice cars, etc.
You are absolutely correct!! when restoring and painting a classic car just the finishing process alone can be hundreds of hours without the bodywork before hand. It's all of the seemingly impossible deadlines that makes me laugh with theses programs. And why o why would any sane owner of a really expensive classic spend what it's worth turning it into an EV, the minute you take the engine out you destroy the value.
Nis job on old Harry's jag by the way. ❤The Channel "Thanks"
Everyone knows Edd China works for 7p an hour! I do bodywork and the amount of hours behind every job is huge, people thinks it's just wheeling it in the spray booth and hey presto. Could not agree more. Most vehicles it's more than the cars worth to re-paint
Race to the bottom is what the world has turned into unfortunately. Classic car maintenance and restorations have become a pastime for the very wealthy.
Mega quality work going on there for £65 ph. I hope you guys can keep the business going for years to come.
With the prices of panels and materials spiralling, and the value of the cars declining, I cannot see many people bothering to restore things like MK2 Jags in the future.
Horses for Courses I guess. Many years ago when I worked in the second hand car trade I had a guy who only worked for the trade. The guy worked at night and slept in the day. He worked in his double garage and was very cheap and used the absolute minimum of paint. The cars always came back looking great but I wouldn't have wanted to see them a couple of years down the line. These were cheap cars though - but they always sold!
Increase your hourly rate to £85 plus vat per hour. Mad not to.
280 hours at £80 an hour ( plus vat) is around 27k so with parts, panels and paint you would be looking at around 52k…
A c lassic car , maybe an investment, certainly not if driven on the road and insured for that . A very rich mans hobby and have the correct car as well , thank you ...good informative real video of fact ...
An interesting reality check for prospective bodywork customers. I suppose it is a case of get it done once for £5,000 or twice for £4,000 each time.
Where i work its £40 per hr for bodywork the mechanical side of things has changed with the tech in a modern car the skills needed are more than ever
Don't know if it's the skills needed or the expensive dedicated equipment, youth of today soon get to grips with the diagnostic equipment but then just change the bit the computer points to, if that dosen't fix the problem move on to the next component in the cobweb of electrical demons. Customer pays 😒 When the problem could easily be a bad earth connection sending white noise crackle around the vehicle.
Great video, I fully understand where your coming from. I'm a born fiddler. I just love tinkering and paint finishing has always fascinated me, I'll spend hours getting the right finish to the craziest of things not just car panels. It takes ages, but then most of the time I'm not sure what I'm doing! so probably reinventing the wheel 😂 Great to have things like TH-cam to point me in the right direction.
PS I'm old and retired so keeps me active, I often think" I'll just do so an so" three hours later I've hardly scratched the surface of the task 😊
Keep the videos coming it's great to see true craftsman's work rather than tradesmans fixings 👍
£40.00 per hour !!!!!! So workers there have no chance to pay the rent and food and etc...keep it up islanders work hard and you too will get on .... on what?????? Good comments on video transcript ...good script ...honest reflections on reality .....
Race to the bottom sounds familiar, I run a precision engineering company and cheap & cheerful is not sustainable
Even watching only about half of your video, I can ABSOLUTELY state that it IS EXACTLY then same in building. People ROUTINELY compare ONLY the price instead of a "apples to apples" detailed scope of the work and THE MATERIALS !! So one electrician is quoting a "romex" electrical system while the next guy is quoting a "hard conduit" system. You will get the same voltage coming out of your receptacles but those two systems are definitely NOT THE SAME !!! For one major thing, try and modify the wiring "WITHOUT OPENING UP THE WALLS" with the romex system as compared to the conduit system. Between the materials and labor, likely double the cost with the conduit system. Yet people don't even realize they are NOT comparing the same job !!!
In your case, might be like comparing glued, flanged, panel repair seams VS welded, butt joined, panel seams.
Mike Brewer after selling a car they had worked on that they made a small profit, but no mention of the hours Ed China spent on it no mention of cost of running the workshop rents, rates, etc. It's more likely that the were thousands of pounds in the red. On the other hand if Ed China could do all the work he did for what they say it cost, they would be swamped with work.
Great video. Add the internet to the fantasy pedaling world. If you google the price for reupholstering a car seat you'll get an absurdly low number that any buyer will then leverage, not understanding all the variables...Al is going to make this a lot worse sadly.
We used to get people coming in and having cars resprayed yrs qgo it dont happen now its too expensive we did a vw van and the bill was 6k for a respray with various repairs to the body
I paint my own cars. Average costs me around $800. Not including panels, rust repairs: that's not painting. So if you do it yourself, out of pocket is around $800 per car, good paint, superb results if you put in the hours of course.
Classic car ownership is a pretty middle class thing, many owners are so-called professionals - lawyers, accountants, bankers and so on. Quite why they feel justified in charging hundreds of pounds per hour while they expect people, who are skilled and doing real hard work, to tend to their needs for a fraction of that has always been a mystery to me.
I am an Engineer,self employed sole trader machinist and in my 40 year of trading at 62 years old . I did a traditional indentured Engineering apprenticeship and a total of seven years at technical college 1978-1985 finally achieving my HNC in mechanical engineering. 99% of my work is industrial,manufacturing anything that comes into my workshop from industrial locomotive components , Brick works ,food industry,wind turbines , ceramics industry, car industry , I will make anything my machinery enables me to , all by hand , from a wide variety of materials. The number of times Joe public has rocked up with an obsolete,broken part and asked me if I can make it for them ,expecting a £20 job or the same cost of buying a mass produced part . Most people have absolutely no idea how long a 1 off or a few hand made parts can take ,let alone the knowledge,skill . The capital expense in Engineering is horrendous ,you are constantly needing tooling and of course wearing out your machinery . Most of the public regardless of their personal wealth expect a Saville row suit for a George at Asda price .
I find Car SOS very enjoyable, but you can clearly see cars that have featured in other episodes in the background, so much of what is shown is clearly from TV Land, not reality.
I'm up to a 1000 hrs on my Healey ground up resto.
I suspect that despite your well articulated explanation, that people who are unable to discern the difference between tv entertainment & the real world will also struggle to grasp that your hourly rate isn't simply the cost of labour. Ultimately, the quality of your work will ensure that you can command a sensible return for your efforts but i fear you will always have to contend with the uneducated bargain hunters.
What people do not realise that when you do a paint job you are looking through the paint at the substrate and if you do not get your preparation right it does not matter how good a sprayer is used it will show all the imperfections and come off.
I had my Triumph 2500S Accident Repaired and Restored at the same time where we found rust, it was painted in cellulose and I personally flatted all that down myself and my did it look good in White - as good if not better than it came out of the factory but it did not last and although that was in 1987 and it is now 2024 and I took it off the road in1990 it now needs a complete strip and cooked to remove all the paint because there are now holes on flat surfaces where there was no rust before. Ironically we did not paint the flitch panels and they were left as supplied by Triumph in 1976 and that is the only area that has Not Deteriorated.
I want to redo it in cellulose because I do not like the poured plastic effect of 2K. I do not know what Triumph were using in the 1970's but it was not either 2k or Cellulose but I understand Acrylic. Cellulose at that time was used for refinishing. So whatever was on my car was treated to a 2K primer and then Cellulose and it has reacted and is coming off in large chunks and underneath there is rust! That was the recommendation by this restorer bodyshop who did classic work around the big local ford dealership's requirements
What do you think about using Cellulose paint today please and any comments about the above would be very welcome
I have been in the motor trade since the 80s, its never been any different, the public have never had a clue about the cost of quality paint work. There has always been a race to the bottom , if you can't make a profit dont do the job. There is nothing different now, except reality tv, than was happening in the 80s.
Spot on with the estimates. Wheeler dealers, Homes Under hammer with property. All nonsense and misleading. I've seen a Victorian house restored, new bathrooms, kitchen, rewired, windows. £10k. Just nonsense.