Great discussion thanks. One of the reasons I didn't go with Octopus offer was that on one occasion they suggested volumieser for my 14 radiator 4 bedroom house but final design had a Daikin 9 kW with buffer. I instead paid for an independent Heat Loss survey and then used a local company (Heat Geek associated) and a Mitsubishi 8 kW unit. However, the Mitsubishi has a pre-plumbed cylinder with hydraulic separation by Low Loss Header. Same argument against LLH as buffer tank is it? Or is less of an issue? I'd prefer if possible to remove it but I guess the warranty would go too!
Correct on the wall mount I believe mine is transferring some noise but not a lot in my case. It's the circulation pumps that I find hum. Also pipework running through walls needs sleeving and insulation from inside to outside which mine isn't. Could be part of my noise issue And primary pipes inside the house using rubber lined clips helps again some of mine aren't. Circulation pumps can make noise so avoid a buffer if you can I also have this problem 😂 I have a low hum coming from the lofts circulation pump and a louder hum coming from the airing cupboard whilst heating is running this is the main issue. The heat pump itself outside isn't loud at all really. In the process of trying to get the installer to sort it all out. My journey is on the forum if your interested The good the bad and not that great
Thanks Burtis. And I agree about the hum of distribution pumps. Here’s Burtis’ journey: renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/the-good-bad-and-the-not-that-great/paged/4#post-35498
My water is set to 53 deg c and to me because we do not have a dish washer or the space to fit one, I wash by hand. I can easily hold my hand in our water my problem is it is too cold by the time I finish the washing up. Other than that I love my ASHP.
I have nothing against heat pumps, in fact quite the reverse. It's just that I don't want to see or hear a big heat pump in my relatively small front or rear garden, & nor do my neighbours. The only place I would want to site a HP on my property is down the side of my house in a 1m wide walkway (house one side & neighbours fence the other). The problem is that most HP manufacturers minimum airflow & installation clearance requirements would not allow this type of location because the fence would be too close & promote recirculation of of the discharge air. Since 1m walkways down the side of houses are very common in the UK what is needed is a HP with a top discharge or an angled fan, like the Octopus Cosy6, which directs the discharge air vertically away from the unit which would allow it to be installed in a more restricted space. Ironically I have a 4kW A2A split system high wall HP outdoor unit serving our conservatory (mainly for heating) down the side of our walkway & that works just fine. I would also want a neat & tidy installation with all external pipework & wiring enclosed in trunking. So often I see pipework, lagging & wiring exposed to the elements that looks just plain ugly. R290 HP's also have additional restrictions in terms of where they cannot be located e.g. under opening windows or next to open drains which further restricts their installation locations. For these reasons I am still not convinced that switching to a HP is an aesthetically pleasing option vs my 5 year HE boiler which is out of sight in a kitchen cupboard. BTW I'm a retired HVAC engineer / product manager & have been working with all types of Heat Pumps for over 48 years.
My gas boiler was louder and my fridge is louder than my Aerotherm Plus. And the app says it’s charging my 70c SunAmp (so far…) at over 400% output efficiency.
Group51, I'm getting tired of seeing this 300, 400% efficiency. Did nobody do physics in school? No device is 100% efficent, the energy that powers is is always more than the energy out or work done. If it were true perpetual motion would be reality.
An informative but very one sided views put forward by people who install heat pumps!! I have installed central heating systems for years using gas and in my own house today (3/10/24)I have used 25 pence worth of gas and 64 pence of electricity so how can a £7000 heat pump save me money? I do not need hot water except for a shower and shave!! If it gets cold at night I switch the combi boiler on and it uses about £1.00 for 5 hours (at 45 degrees). 3 bed detached . No logical or financial reason to install a heat pump. I have a smart meter so these figures are from that.
I’d just like correct your opening point. It’s a one-sided view from highly competent installers. Some of the best in the country. That’s the point we’re trying to make. The myths stem from work done by poor quality installers.
Thanks for your reply - I maybe was expecting a 'pros and cons' view from heat pump specialists who did not mention that heat pumps cannot be installed in every house or flat but I agree that in some circumstances they may save money in the long run. I await your next video!!
The math ain't mathing, running a heat pump 24hrs a day 7 days a week vs running a boiler a few hours a day. With the heat pump being cheaper. Run the boiler day 6hrs a day with energy costs being the same the heat pump would need to be 4x more efficient just to break even. But gas is cheaper as old matey pointed out around 3x cheaper. So a heat pump would need to be 1200% efficient to break even, let alone be cheaper.
Love these! Thanks!
Glad you like them!
How is the hvo boiler going ? You might do a video !!
Great discussion thanks. One of the reasons I didn't go with Octopus offer was that on one occasion they suggested volumieser for my 14 radiator 4 bedroom house but final design had a Daikin 9 kW with buffer. I instead paid for an independent Heat Loss survey and then used a local company (Heat Geek associated) and a Mitsubishi 8 kW unit. However, the Mitsubishi has a pre-plumbed cylinder with hydraulic separation by Low Loss Header. Same argument against LLH as buffer tank is it? Or is less of an issue? I'd prefer if possible to remove it but I guess the warranty would go too!
Correct on the wall mount I believe mine is transferring some noise but not a lot in my case.
It's the circulation pumps that I find hum.
Also pipework running through walls needs sleeving and insulation from inside to outside which mine isn't. Could be part of my noise issue
And primary pipes inside the house using rubber lined clips helps again some of mine aren't.
Circulation pumps can make noise so avoid a buffer if you can I also have this problem 😂
I have a low hum coming from the lofts circulation pump and a louder hum coming from the airing cupboard whilst heating is running this is the main issue.
The heat pump itself outside isn't loud at all really.
In the process of trying to get the installer to sort it all out.
My journey is on the forum if your interested
The good the bad and not that great
Thanks Burtis. And I agree about the hum of distribution pumps. Here’s Burtis’ journey: renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/the-good-bad-and-the-not-that-great/paged/4#post-35498
My water is set to 53 deg c and to me because we do not have a dish washer or the space to fit one, I wash by hand. I can easily hold my hand in our water my problem is it is too cold by the time I finish the washing up.
Other than that I love my ASHP.
I have nothing against heat pumps, in fact quite the reverse. It's just that I don't want to see or hear a big heat pump in my relatively small front or rear garden, & nor do my neighbours. The only place I would want to site a HP on my property is down the side of my house in a 1m wide walkway (house one side & neighbours fence the other). The problem is that most HP manufacturers minimum airflow & installation clearance requirements would not allow this type of location because the fence would be too close & promote recirculation of of the discharge air. Since 1m walkways down the side of houses are very common in the UK what is needed is a HP with a top discharge or an angled fan, like the Octopus Cosy6, which directs the discharge air vertically away from the unit which would allow it to be installed in a more restricted space. Ironically I have a 4kW A2A split system high wall HP outdoor unit serving our conservatory (mainly for heating) down the side of our walkway & that works just fine.
I would also want a neat & tidy installation with all external pipework & wiring enclosed in trunking. So often I see pipework, lagging & wiring exposed to the elements that looks just plain ugly. R290 HP's also have additional restrictions in terms of where they cannot be located e.g. under opening windows or next to open drains which further restricts their installation locations.
For these reasons I am still not convinced that switching to a HP is an aesthetically pleasing option vs my 5 year HE boiler which is out of sight in a kitchen cupboard. BTW I'm a retired HVAC engineer / product manager & have been working with all types of Heat Pumps for over 48 years.
Look at for instance Nilan heat pumps. That might be yours ;)
My gas boiler was louder and my fridge is louder than my Aerotherm Plus. And the app says it’s charging my 70c SunAmp (so far…) at over 400% output efficiency.
Group51,
I'm getting tired of seeing this 300, 400% efficiency. Did nobody do physics in school? No device is 100% efficent, the energy that powers is is always more than the energy out or work done.
If it were true perpetual motion would be reality.
So design the system for flow temp 40C at -3C air temp.
An informative but very one sided views put forward by people who install heat pumps!! I have installed central heating systems for years using gas and in my own house today (3/10/24)I have used 25 pence worth of gas and 64 pence of electricity so how can a £7000 heat pump save me money? I do not need hot water except for a shower and shave!! If it gets cold at night I switch the combi boiler on and it uses about £1.00 for 5 hours (at 45 degrees). 3 bed detached . No logical or financial reason to install a heat pump. I have a smart meter so these figures are from that.
I’d just like correct your opening point. It’s a one-sided view from highly competent installers. Some of the best in the country. That’s the point we’re trying to make. The myths stem from work done by poor quality installers.
Thanks for your reply - I maybe was expecting a 'pros and cons' view from heat pump specialists who did not mention that heat pumps cannot be installed in every house or flat but I agree that in some circumstances they may save money in the long run.
I await your next video!!
The math ain't mathing, running a heat pump 24hrs a day 7 days a week vs running a boiler a few hours a day.
With the heat pump being cheaper.
Run the boiler day 6hrs a day with energy costs being the same the heat pump would need to be 4x more efficient just to break even.
But gas is cheaper as old matey pointed out around 3x cheaper.
So a heat pump would need to be 1200% efficient to break even, let alone be cheaper.
You’re not doing the maths right.
Another great episode