Hey guys, please watch the video and hear the concerns before you jump to conclusions 👋 I think it's very easy to get caught up in all this initial hype and miss genuine potential issues Edit: 20:25 is an editing mistake 😅 I should have put a mualani team on screen when showing a team where Xilonen could lose the scroll artifact set. Ignore navia
You should put "C0 R0 ONLY evaluation" in the title. Since you didn't take into account C2 R1 at all. C2 R1 is where most of the hype is BUT I think it is good to put out a video like this to warn people not to expect too much from C0 R0.
@@THESocialJusticeWarriorInstead of C2 R1 xilonen you can get a C3 R1 Neuvilette or Mualani and at that investment they are already destroying everything
Thank you for well balanced and rational approach, that’s what i like in your videos! I personally think that she will perform greatest for casual and mobile players who is not able to do tight rotations and waste several seconds of VV/kazuha buff uptime getting staggered, doing suboptimal rotations etc. Also in her advantage, is worth to mention she work nice in multivalve content, because you do not need to reapply her skills to get res shred, this might be quite useful, depending on content and investment level.
I think we get so many main DPS that it's worth celebrating getting a very good competent support because we only have so many of those, like my friend has a problem where he has 7 main dps characters because he likes them, but they all use Bennet as BIS >.
Hoyo also just releases so many more main DPSes and almost every team is built 1 on-fielder + 3 off-fielder such that the bar for a support that’s worth pulling is so much lower. You can easily find good teams to play your 10th-best support while your 10th-best on fielder might see no play.
the problem is not only the lack of supps, it's that most units use the same ones. How many strong teams have you seen that run yunjin for example? Or lynette? More so than more and more busted supps that just push old ones away from the meta I think we need more specialized, niche supps like faruzan and chevy so that teams can have actual variety
@@irinapanova7577 The problem with niche supports is that almost no teams use TWO of them, so niche supports are almost always played with the same old "general" supports in the other 2 off-field slots in a team. Even when you use niche supports you use them in teams where the other slots are characters like Bennett or Furina, or Kazuha (e.g. Chev teams almost always have Bennett too). We don't *just* need niche supports. We need more generalist supports too.
I'm not celebrating because they decided to put a good support kit on probably my least favorite character design and concept, at least among characters I've seen released.
beign real, Kazuha is 4% better when using VV than Xilonen with her crowned skill, that and the grouping or healing are the only changes at C0, at C2 Xilonen is broken af and thas it
Good video overall with some relevant points to keep in mind. Xilonen is very hyped right now and may appear overrated in some circles or calcs, but she is simultaneously indisputably powerful. Odds are good the top three staple 5-stars (Furina, Kazuha, Nahida) will become the top four with her release. That said, I think you're underrating a few things here: - Xilonen's buff uptime, especially in multi-wave content - Vertical investment on Xilonen, which buffs all her teams - Value and versatility of essentially having two Kazuhas in a game where the hardest content requires two teams of four - A bit more nitpicky: worst-case assumptions for Xilonen pitted against best-case assumptions for alternatives
@@BluecoreG such a weird thing to say. Yes, obviously removing one of his traits makes him not the best. That's like removing Xilonen's healing, which would make her synergy with Furina non-existent
Did it? She really isn't as gamebreaking as people paint her. Check his newest video, though. The one in which he actually tests her out, not this "first impressions" video where he clearly states that he is speculating
Your perspective focuses too much on single team performance, and completely ignores the fact that you need two teams in abyss. Xilonen doesn’t need to be a Kazuha upgrade to be extremely useful. She could be a side grade or even modest downgrade (which I don’t think she is); she only needs to be the best option for many teams when Kazuha is unavailable to be very valuable to an account. Also if you’re going to analyze vertical investment, you should do the same for Xilonen. How valuable is C2 Xilonen? Neuv’s weapon is good on Neuv, but does it have the same account value as cons on Xilonen? Etc.
this makes sense for his channel and public, because his analysis are more focused on the speedrun community, so evaluating her on individual teams happens to make more sense, as normally you speedrun only one side of the abyss.
I very much agree with you, but you also miss the fact that Sucrose and even Zhongli fill that gap already. More options are good tho, even more so because she might be better than those and Kazuha in some situations.
He is also primarily a speed runner so thats what seems to leak into this without him either realizing it or just not saying it cause if he just said this for speed run perspective only then 0 issue with anything tbh. I mean he is forgetting casual player not doing stuff as optimally as him so kazuha loses with that in mind too.(most people do not do double swirl correctly at all for example)
@@Merquitarika They dont fill the gap because they are not healers, Xilonen allow you to run Furina with her, also she has better investment potential than Zhongli or Sucrose, so over time you should get her C2R1 and that is a huge upgrade. She will replace Charlotte on many teams (Nevu and freeze teams) for example and its a huge upgarde. This also opens a Shenhe spot in freeze teams that didnt exist before. She will just open more possibilities and let us customize the teams better, Kazuha for more AoE situations and Xilonen for more single target ones for example.
Hello, king Wrio glazer here I do think your tune will change slightly when you see her setup time and ease of use. You said it yourself, the burst just seems to heal. You can't glaze Kazuha too hard for his fast field time without burst usage without mentioning her fast field time without burst usage. If we have an abyss again with three single target bosses, she's just uncontestably the best for many of the meta teams. If anything i think mentioning her "long animation burst time" is silly because the answer is "just dont use it lol". Your scrolls point is good and people should keep that in mind. I also do see a future (re: mauvika) where she could be an XL upgrade who uses scrolls, which makes Xilo scrolls awkward. On the same vein, I don't think it's too crazy to think they'll release a new set for her too specifically because of this. I don't like your point regarding cons; as you've said, you're not looking at leaks, so it's silly to bring up vertical con investment on DPS without factoring in vertical con investment on Xilo. You mention it as an afterthought at the end, but you may as well remove the entire section(s) regarding cons. Neuv, Mualani and Furina have disgusting C1/C2s... but so will Xilo, on a support who is much more generic. It's like not knowing what Furina C1/C2 do and making an argument Neuv C1 is better because it does a lot. Kazuha C2 doesn't even do anything for a lot of teams since you don't burst, but I have to imagine Xilo C2 as a new unit does :) I don't think Zhongli is a fair comparison. When people say "Xilonen is Kazuha" they're referring to Res Shred + Buff, which is the same as Kazuha Buff + Res Shred. One provides grouping and one provides healing. I know you touched on that in this video, but you can't make a point that she can't be compared to Kazuha because hes a "the premium grouper first and then a buffer second" while instead comparing her to Zhongli who is a "shield first and a buffer second". On any content that does not require grouping or is grouping agnostic, Kazuha and Xilo are basically identical units except one can do double swirl tech and the other has longer res shred uptime. For a more casual perspective, you can now run a top+bottom half Xilo Neuv team and a Kazuha Clorinde team. That's already massive for the vast majority of the playerbase and makes her a exceptionally value pull. I think this fact alone makes her unable to be "overrated". It would be like calling Kazuha overrated in 2024 because Sucrose exists. I don't think she power creeps too much, but she adds another universal support shredder to the roster which was desperately needed, while opening up Geo (and double geo as a result) to more teams. Regardless of my disagreements here, I think you bring up some good points (especially on the Navia front). However, you forgot the best DPS in the game, Wriothesley, so this video is incomplete.
hi evolutez thanks for the comment! my point about not wanting to comparing her to kazuha can make more sense when you look at all the different team ideas I looked at and how very few of them you are deciding whether to play kazuha or xilonen. most of the time, her slot in the team was replacing a different type of teammate. to me, them both having dmg% and shred doesn't mean much.
Well lets go through all of the top teams to see where she can replace either Kazuha or Bennett. Arlecchino - Somewhat compatible in place of Zhongli on certain teams, cannot replace Bennett. Neuvillette - Incompatible, cannot replace Kazuha for vape teams due to grouping needs, and cannot replace Kazuha in bloom teams because she doesn't react with Dendro. Childe - Incompatible, cannot replace Kazuha or Bennett due to grouping and vaping needs. Clorinde - Somewhat compatible, but only in place of Jean on an Electro Charged team. Kinich - Incompatible since she doesn't react with Dendro, Bennett still needed for burning. Lyney - Incompatible, cannot replace Kazuha or Bennett due to mono-element teams and the need for grouping. Mualani - Compatible, can easily replace Zhongli and buff most of her teams. Navia - Somewhat compatible, can mostly replace Zhongli and buff most of her teams, but cannot replace Bennett. Wriothesley - Compatible, can easily replace Zhongli on Burning->Melt teams, but cannot replace Bennett. We're seeing a very clear pattern here where Xilonen can very rarely replace Bennett or Kazuha on teams, but typically pretty easily replaces Zhongli on teams. Though it's completely possible that people will still want to stick to Zhongli for those teams, as he's primarily there to make the game easier, not to significantly buff the team's damage in any way.
I have to argue with the neuvi one - the only reason neuvi bloom teams are a thing is bc ppl use baizhu for healing and moderate shielding in a neuvi/furina/kazuha setup. In such a team, blooms are mostly a by-product of just doing your rotations, and kazuha is not even used in relation to them. That is not to say that i think he can be replaced by xilonen there, but rather that she would take the place of baizhu. Sure, you'd recieve less survivability, but the buffing will increase. And i know that the more you stack res shred the less significant the effect becomes, but in this situation i would still argue that xilonen would be an upgrade. That is not to say that i disagree with some of your other examples, like childe teams, because kazuha's grouping is still highly valuable in those. I'm just saying that your neuv argument lacks some consideration. And also i do not think that the op mentioned anything about xilonen being a bennet replacement, so theres that.
@@thearchitect5405 i think you ONLY considered multi target scenarios she doesnt have to reapply vv shred, so if you kill a wave too fast, you can still finish your rotation she does NOT have to replace benny, since they provide lowkey too different buffs (as he provides one of the base stats, atk) while she provides dmg bonus AND resistance shred (what kazuha is used for, many times) when it comes to grouping, she might not be better, but these days, abyss has been too much single target focused, with many waves. also, using her in lynney teams, replacing kazuha would still make it for a mono-team. the thing is, if she is more comparable to zhongli, then kazuha should too also, being able to use her with furina might be the cherry on top, as bennett cannot heal above 70%, therefore not being able to trigger Furina's passive
Xianlings ICD doesnt matter because you have a 1s team wide icd regardless for crystalize if you slow down the footage you can clearly see you got the same amount of shots on every single team, including Furinas. The only problem I'd have with Xilonen and Navia is exactly this, if I start rotation with Navias burst its completely possible that Navias burst steals the crystalize during Xilonens field time and I manage to not proc the scroll set.
I can see myself having a reply to this comment but cant actually see it so ill post it again and delete in case yt stops being weird. You simply dont burst at the start; you apply the element, crystalize with Xilo then set up normally something along the line of: Xiangling E Xilo QEn2 Navia Q Bennett QE Xiangling Q Navia combo This way you buff both XL and Navia bursts(both snapshot *edit:Navia actually doesnt snapshot*) and dont get in the way of Navia's Q uptime and get a little more stack generation for her E
@@razor5694 what do you mean? If Xiangling uses pyronado on a c6 bennet burst she keeps the full +15% pyro damage even if bennett's burst ends, pretty sure thats the same for almost every dmg buff
Got her, done a decent amount of testing so far, wasn't overrating her at all haha. If anything her Navia teams have performed slightly better than I expected.
The video is reasonable except for one thing, I don't get comparing characters constellations to whole new support cuz by that argument no support is worth pulling for since you can technically replace kazuha and zhongli with sucrose and Kachina then pull for c1 on neuvillette/mualani. Just because a constellation might be a bigger upgrade that doesn't take from the fact that she's bis for that team. That's a valid criticism for supports in general and has nothing to do with xilonen's kit. Also how are you the most positive about mualani when her and neuvillette have the exact same criticism? 😅
@@alaadawood5876 i think his point is more that this is a recent phenomenon. It wasn't an universal thing with older characters, like Klee would much rather have Kazuha than her own C1 but over the past year we've gotten weapons and cons that are on average significantly stronger than they used to be, so the value of supports over vertical investment isn't the same as it was two or three years ago
Agreed. The kind of player who cares about meta, vertical investment, and wants to play Neuvillette more likely than not have his C1R1 already. In which case Xilonen is a strict upgrade over Zhongli/Baizhu. He's pushing her as the horizontal investment option when it's the other way around.
This exactly! Plus Xilonen can be obtained in a couple weeks, whereas waiting for your main DPS to get a rerun could take months, even over a year in some cases. The idea of constellations vs BiS support doesn't really work as a comparison unless you know that both banners are coming up soon.
@@epicdarkraifournineone8006 only if you are early game lmao. Endgame players like me have alr good enough teams. I dont need meta chars anymore and for sure not a buffer that buffs my team only marginally
Very disingenuous to say that a huge part of her value is scroll and that it’s a reason for her being overrated. That’s a huge part of any natlan character’s value. It’s like saying that Kazuha is overrated because he relies on VV. Or that all anemo characters are overrated bc vv exists. It’s a BONUS, not a detraction. Mavuika and future natlan chsracters likely won’t have Xilonen’s kit. And her kit is what puts her above other characters like Kachina as a support. And it’s also plain false. Xilonen’s biggest contribution is the 36% res shred inherent in her kit that doesn’t have to be swirled, is inherent to the team on all nearby enemies rather than being on individual enemies that lose it when one wave dies, and lasts longer than VV buffs for more flexibility in teams.
The difference is that you aren't likely to play 2 anemo supports or sub dps together in a team doing swirl element dmg. There's not really a reason to run say, Kazuha and Jean together, outside of Faruzan comps which don't care about VV. Partially precisely because VV exists and anemos were built with that in mind. The same can't be said for Natlan characters. It's not unreasonable to predict that there'll be at least one support or subdps coming in 5.x, that can hold Scroll and who you would like to play with Xilonen, but can't because it doesn't stack
@@tracer4b why is xilonen locked to the scroll set in the first place? archaic petra exists as an alternative if you already have a scroll set user on the team. at worst she can use the clam set for some extra off field damage. yall are so dramatic
There's a reason you're not playing two anemo supports on vape team. It's because vv set does not stack. The same way there will be no reason to play two natlan supports on the same team because the scroll set does not stack. Xilonen has no competition right now since she's the first support to be released. So of course she looks good :) why do you think hoyo put her in 5.1 and not 5.4+ ? Because once any pyro support that can carry the scroll set is out, bye bye :)
Of course the scroll is a huge part of xilonen kit and not just a bonus, xilonen without the set has worse buffing capabilities than kachina with it so the viability of xilonen of ACTUALLY being able to use the set and proc enough reactions to get the buff is important as fuck
20:20 I see it as, if Xilonen uses scroll then Mavuika doesn't need to use it and can go for a dps set. It's like deepwood with dendro DPS characters, if you have a support who uses deepwood then you can go for other dps sets on the dps. Also, petra exists so you can put that on xilonen if you want scroll on mavuika. 22:10 Xilonen's burst is only needed for healing. Her actual buffing is with E and 2 NAs which takes a very small amount of time. I don't blame you since it's very hard to get this just looking at her kit and not at leaks
@@steakholder117 and pretty sure we'll get another Artifacts set in 5.3, from some "sus" leaks its for Xilonen and Citali sets. And Mavuika BiS is still Scroll set.
Only characters released with a new artifact set and who didnt use it are Ayaka and Xianyun. And Xianyun can still use SoDP. Ayaka doesnt use emblem/shime. If mavuika releases in 5.3 with new set, shes using it. Hero seems to be xilonen oriented set.
Yeah it's starting to seem like Mavuika will actually use a different set from the Cinders one. And I'm betting that it will be offense-oriented, rather than supportive, similar to Furina.
It's interesting how this is the first time I see anyone talk about crystallize generation for Navia teams. It's a point I always bring up when discussing her teams, but most people don't seem to consider it at all That and double crystallise setups being awkward are the two biggest nitpicks I've had with people saying she'll be the strongest possible support for most teams
@@irinapanova7577 yeah that's also true. I never thought I'd see a day where kazuha of all characters was underrated, but I've seen more and more people dismissing cc completely over the past year, even before Xilonen. I get that Neuvillette doesn't care about cc because he's very unbalanced, but that's just one character 😅
Navia never needed second geo for crystalize , you usually use her either with chiori or zhongli and they barerly do anything for her in this regard. Her burst is all she needs
Your take on Neuvillette team is a bit strange to me 1) why do we even need any supports? Can't i just pull for c6 Neuvillette then? If in your opinion xilo is worse than c1 Neuv then i can skip Furina and Kazuha too and just pull for c6. Same with Arle, like i can skip Kazuha and Bennet and just pull c6. You can say this about any dps 2) what if i already have c1 Neuvillette😂? 3) xilonen banner is starting in a few days while Neuvillette banner is not, so why should i skip xilo now and wait to pull for Neuv cons? 4) we have 2 halfs in abyss, even if xilo isn't better than c1 you can use her with other characters. C1 Neuv buffs only his own damage, xilo gives buffs to many other characters 5) xilo buffs not only Neuv damage but Furina's too so i don't know if c1 Neuv team damage will be higher than c0+xilo team damage 6) I don't really understand your point on "your own account". Xilo buffing c0 Neuv team is a fact, it's objective that this team will do more damage than Zhongli team
His takes are more speedrun -focused rather than the casual/meta side. For instance, Kazuha's main problem for most players is his uptime. And Xilonen fixes that. That said, Kazuha's downtime doesn't affect most speedruns especially for people with his C1. This is why takes on Xilonen varies, speedrunners like Jamie are less enthusiastic or may not see the value in her while Meta TCs praise her lot.
@@schubert9613 Just to add to this, Jamie's the owner of an EN speedrunning community discord and has a lot of personal experience with optimizing speedruns. He also does Viewer Abyss clears for people who are struggling. 1) Taken logically, yes, that is correct, c6 neuv or c6 mua or c6 arle results in much faster clear times than investing in supports. I'm a speedrunner myself, and I can confirm even just c1 Arlecchino can reduce clear time by as much as 30 seconds, absolutely massive since their "c0" clear time is around 80-90s. If you go all the way to c6 you start clearing in 10s. That is such a huge boost, imagine being 50% faster just from c1. By contrast, the "performance bump" you can gain from switching from kazuha -> xilonen is very marginal and it may even slow down your clear time because kazuha is just better for Arle. 2) If you "already" have c1 neuvillette there is c2 neuvillette and all the way up to c6 neuvillete. Xilonen does diversify your account (she can be used for teams other than neuv) so its a question of vertical vs horizontal investment...some ppl prefer horizontal and some prefer vertical. 3) It's definitely something that people can do yes 4) The "two halves" argument was valid 2 years ago with a more limited unit roster. These days, there are more than 80 units available (soon to be 90), there are just so many units that a long time player should never have trouble picking out absolute best-in-slots for both sides, and have no room for "less optimal but can make do" picks. Especially when there's top tier behemoth teams like Mualani who don't use any "power units" and want Sucrose or Candace. 5) If you've seen Neuv c1 speedruns you can immediately see there is a massive gain from his c1 vs Neuv c0 speedruns. 6) Damage isnt the only story its a complete package. Most players, especially non-speedrunners, need the IR that zhongli provides. The players that CAN play neuv shieldless are like Jamie and me, and people like us would rather play Vape Neuv instead because of its higher ceiling. So once its "tryhard" scenarios Xilonen is not just competing with Zhongli anymore she is competing with a whole multiplicative reaction.
@@schubert9613 But in the same breath he talks about Zhongli's comfort not being replaceable and the value of his shield for C0 Neuvillette when it's plain fact that Xilonen is a damage upgrade and so should clear faster in speed runs. The truth is he flip flops between casual and speed run when it suits his argument.
@@mf2854100%. Some of his arguments make sense, but he fails to give proper context. What is worse is the click-bait title and thumbnail, which don’t specify anything, whether focus on casual or speed-run.
@@leedevee Yeah. I agree we shouldnt overhype at everything. But see these comment make me wonder is he try to calm community or blackmailed Xilonen? Also as speedruuner perspective? Dude, how many players from 4.5 millions daily mobile player is speedrunner? Im not disrespect speedrunner player, but put that on video title if this from speedrunner POV, not casual. Because yeah i feel clickbaited by the title & surprise when watch the video.
Yes, vertical investment in new dps is worth it but keep in mind that you need 2 teams to clear the abyss… and don’t even get me started on imaginarium where you need 20 something characters AND you are restricted by elements. I am the type of player that actually pulls for cons and weapons for the characters i like but i would not skip an universal support like xilonen, having many characters is now more valuable than ever.
20:25 probably the worst example for your point here because mavuika wouldnt be able to use cinder for navia becasue the wearer has to trigger the reaction and a pyro character cant trigger crystalize.
yep 20:25 is an editing mistake 😅 I should have put a mualani team on screen when showing a team where Xilonen could lose the scroll artifact set. Ignore navia but you get my point with other teams
No wriothesley mentioned? Sorry. Mavuika with Xilonen can still hold Archaic Petra by just taking the crystal generated by Xilonen who herself holds Cinder City.
Good vid, i do want to point something out, regarding the Neuv C1 and signature example, im saying this for both casual and speedrunning, yea pulling stuff like C1 and signature weapon over supports for certain dps characters might give you a bit more dmg for said character, but the thing about this is that dps characters get powercreep way easier and faster, maybe eventually we get a stronger Neuv and maybe you stop using him, or maybe the new abyss lineup does't favor said dps character. therefore his C1/weapon become useless, meanwhile the support character can be used with that new stronger character or in that new abyss, i don't think is worth lossing a strong general suport just to get let's say 10% more dmg for only one character. I mean you can get cons and signature, most these days are pretty good, but if i have to chose i whould always prioritize a good suport over weapon/cons, even if they get you a bit more dmg.
Your Chiori being c1 seem to be the reason why you have consistent shard generation. my Chiori is c0 and she gives my Navia only 1 more shard compare to my solo geo team, for only like 50% of the time at best. so between Chiori and Xilonen, I think Xilonen is a strict upgrade to Navia team, especially if her role is hypercarry.
This is a comment i left under someone else assuming c0 Chiori: "Navia's burst is a big part in skill stacking because it creates both crystals(general 1s cooldown) and stacks(2.4s cooldown) so assuming the burst hits 2 times in 3s that means 4 stacks; chiori attacks on 3.6s intervals so she generates a crystal every time she hits UNLESS either Navia's E, geoNA or Q has already hit within the 1s cooldown. Generally, when Navia takes the field for her combo she has max stacks regardless of allies off field presence and after her first E use, while NAing, while Q is hitting the probability of an off-fielder hitting and creating crystals for her is kinda low, it might very well be a 1 or 2 at most crystals created while on field and for an already 4+ stacked skill" Effectively the shard/stacks generation might be a problem only for the 3rd skill ""tech"" when her Q uptime has ended
@@Danipazz16 Now after rewatching Jamie's run, I even think that your theory does apply to Chiori c1 as well. The "maxed out" charged shot when Jamie plays Navia w/ Chiori only has 1 shard more than when he plays her w/ Zhongli. The geo application really doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to pick Chiori over other dedicated buffer for Navia. I have both Zhongli and Chiori and I pick Chiori only because her personal dps can compensate my lack of decent build on my Navia, plus I play Zhongli with black tassel. If I have choices, I'd pick Xilonen over her at any situation, either for try hard or for comfort
@@thucancook2090 yeah, that might be actually true; i assumed the best situation where if one doll cant crystalize because of shard cooldown, the other can and creates a crystal, but only the first one might be the one "applying" the element(i dont have that deep knowledge in terms of icd cooldowns and rng for geo)
@@Danipazz16 not just the elemental application icd, the in-game limit of 3 crystals on-field at any given time, plus Navia's low downtime between each skill use, all hinder the effectiveness of using any off-field applicator to maximise the shard generation. If someone choose a geo unit solely based on this factor, I think they might have a much better result running a second geo on-fielder for quickswap, or dual-carry play style w/ extended rotation
Hot takes, yeah. I actually agree that she isn't gamebreaking when you have today top meta support lol Just from my feelscrafting, she is Zhongli 4AP or Kachina 4Scroll pro max, but only excel at buffing. No gamebreaking mechanics like Kazuha with his CC, Furina with HP drain, or Zhongli thick shield+geo shield breaker, Xiangyun with plunge. She is 100% pure buff, until you pulling her cons for IR. She is irreplaceable for buffing someone like Noelle C6 or Cyno, but in other comps, pretty sure she is totally replaceable with
Although I don't agree that vertical investments are better than pulling a brand new unit, especially when IT needs 20 characters to enter the highest difficulty and values alot on off-fielder and buffer than on-field dmg dealer But overall, she is still great universal buffer for horizontal investments, but I do agree that people is overrating her alot if we are talking about BiS
I try to understand you and let me just say i appreciate you for trying to set our expectations, but... First, You're comparing mualani cons to a whole character without consideration of what xilonen brings outside of mualani, plus there are two abyss halfs... is you're op mualani gonna jump over to the other??? and you miss the fact that the op mualani teams usually lack a sustain, which is something non-speedrunners aka 90% of players aren't gonna attempt.
19:42 mavuika is definitely releasing in 5.3, and we always get new artifact sets in the x.3 versions, so it's likely that she is getting a signature set for herself!
How can you be so sure? Baizhu was released in 3.6 and guess what? both of new artifacts we got this patch isn't for him. Yes, there's a chance that the new one in 5.3 will suit her but it can also be not, and past archon's signature set is always .0 ones. Also, leakers said 5.3 will have two 5 stars. They may release a new artifact set for one of these 5 stars only, and one set for already release characters.
@Kaminari2211 I mean, she's an archon they tend to get preferential treatment. Baizhu was probably the least hyped or desired character I've ever seen.
Jamie thank you as usual for your insight but I’m at min 5 and I wanted to quickly address a problem with the crystallise showcase in Navia teams. With Kachina you used hold E at the start absorbing nearby shards, probably more than necessary, while with Chiori you used tap E at the beginning meaning that you saved more shards for later, making building up stacks for the 2nd E faster. With Zhongli, I’m fairly sure a shard wasn’t even sucked up because the bosses moved away and still the performance seemed similar if not identical to Kachina. I agree that with a 2nd geo applying geo off field you are more likely to get one or two shards more during Navia’s on field time but because of crystallise ICD it’s really a matter of timings and considering most geo characters have very awful geo application (Kachina, Zhongli, Albedo) it’s not unlikely that their ICD lines up making some geo app wasted , I did some testing with Kachina the other day and I was getting somewhat inconsistent results likely because of that but I didn’t investigate further. Anyway I mainly wanted to mention the hold E thing because it made the demonstration much less convincing.
Oh while I’m at it I’m not familiar at all with Chiori, I don’t have her and I have no idea of how her application works, when I said one or maybe two shards more I was thinking about the other geo companions I mentioned.
@@jamiekb9voh btw I just realised Kachina used her Q only, you have her C1 so the construct stays on field for a bit but she only gets 20 Nightsoul points like that, if you use her skill instead she fills her Nightsoul bar and the construct if I remember correctly hits 6 times applying geo every other time.
The only true powercreep is how much you like the character that you are willing to invest on him/her over the others. Xilonen: - I find the burst to be a bit underwhelming especially if it only heals the onfield character. - I hope she works with Itto or the mono geo team because it's the team that really needs a good geo buffer the most, unless they made her work best with teams who doesn't need her the most. - Good points on the video about kazuha able to swirl 2 elements as far as info goes she can only shred 1 element if they have 2 of that element type on the team. She can shred 2 if the other one was Geo because she always have the geo up. - as an example cinder city doesn't work well on a raiden team because it will only buff which ever was involve in the reaction that being the case of crystalize Geo & X element. - as for people saying " not all people are that good with kazuha to swirl 2 elements" well that's really on them and people who wants or already have kazuha shouldn't really be discourage to pull him or be force to pull xilonen( and win the 50/50) because a lot of people say "Neuvi & arle top dmg must pull" when a lot of people even with having them can't clear the abyss with full stars due to when you get hit so hard with arle you are force to ult or restart same with Nuevi getting interrupted but if thats the case why not pull Zhongli? Has a shield because arle can't heal and has anti interruption. - she is "versatile" kinda, a lot of supports/buffers are versatile but what makes her a "must pull". Example C0 Chevreuse is already good on overload a C0 4 star vs an expensive star and chev res shred is always up for both pyro and electro on overload. Vs Kazuha: - a lot of enemies on the abyss doesn't need groupings. - this goes for both xilonen and kazuha if you invest on the DPS constellation and signature weapon like Nuevi or arle they clear so fast that you don't really need grouping or buffing that much unless you want that Big wow dmg. Sucrose or Kachina is just enough. - Cinder city buff are a lot easier to get than farming for EM artifacts on kazuha not to mention the Def stats is a lot more common. - Xilonen res shred is a lot more reliable than the swirl reaction. - not everyone's best in slot is bennett so you cant guarantee that pyro swirl all the time unless youre that good. - Both Xilonen and kazuha are not the best to get on a Dendro team a C0/C2 nahida is much better especially she is on Phase 2 banner. As for kazuha on aggravate clorinde not really due to clorinde's clunk it's much more easier for most to use Zhongli because if Clorinde got interrupted that means no dps is 0 dps. vs Zhongli: I will probably just say the positives because there is not much to say lmao he is a really old character. - the best shield in the game no contest. - Good for mental health you get that anti interruption, imagine playing on touchscreen plus the Lagfest galore that primo spent on him will be worth it. Good video a lot of people won't appreciate it that much, but as for me I like it. Gives people to contrast with when there is already a lot of content saying her good/best part.
Did it? She really isn't as gamebreaking as people painted her. Check his newest video, though. The one in which he actually tests her out, not this "first impressions" video where he clearly states that he was speculating
@@Quasar634 name a better more universal support im waiting, also one that has such insane constellations and weapon these tc's should know best calcs dont translate directly into gameplay
@@Quasar634 L take literally best in slot for neuvi and mualani an upgrade for for navia teams despite what this video claimed All with amazing vertical investmement potential to make her future proof. literally buffed some of the best cores in the game like yelan furina double hydro and created a new universal core for hypercarries neuv furina xilo. so yeaaaah aged like fine milk
@@Mana-qp4uw?? Shes literally a kazuha sidegrade, and upgrade on certain teams. With much better Vertical investment. A universal Top meta support. What are you talking about
@@maxwu4145that's exactly why the video was right, because people overrated Xilonen as sme kind of meta changing character but she is not, she is just good, normally good, nothing else. Did you watch the video?
@@Mana-qp4uwI wouldn’t say just “normally good”, Kuzuha is an SS tier support and so is Xilonen. What’s better than one kazuha is two. More team compositions etc as a whole now
@@aSweetSummerSolstice keep in mind overrated doesn't equal bad. Jamie made this vid because alot of players were saying she would 'powercreep' kazuha or change the meta which wasn't true. She can be broken and overrated, it's not either or.
I get what your saying but I feel like her main strength is being able to be played in a team with kazuha unlike all the other vv healers we have, 80shred 80 bonus will be crazy no healer can do that
No point in 25 minutes of speculation when you don't know the value of her res shred, signature wep, or cons. Her kit could be -100% all res for all you know if you are avoiding leaks (or pretending to for the sake of your partnership). Most of what you said just goes out the window depending on her tuning.
18:19 I think double buff was always intended for Kaz, as it is even easier to double swirl electro charge. The devs should have tested, known that was possible, and decided to keep it in.
@@aerohydra3849 thats just the res shred aka debuff, sure all anemo characters can do it with vv set. But not all of them can give dmg bonus like kazuha, em sharing like sucrose, or flat plunge dmg bonus like xianyun in their base kit. Some of them can give a liiiittle bit of buff, yeah, but i dont think they are even worth your consideration since the 3 examples i mentioned give actual significant dmg buff
While a lot of the points are valid, these feel like real nitpicks. Almost as if you're going out of your way to discredit her before you even know her full kit. It's even stranger when you take into account a lot of people hyping her have more information than you as you avoid leaks. Even the strongest characters in the game have weaknesses we can all point out if we tried, Kazuha included. A few of the takes seemed like reaches such as stating her burst is going to delay set up time for Mualani, her burst is used for healing, why the hell would you use it in set up? Also the double swirl thing on electro and hydro? she has geo infusion and all those characters in the Raiden team have off field app, you'd spam NAs for 2 seconds and be good most of the time. In case of Mavuika using the scrolls set she still has petra to fall back on. Also when comparing to Zhongli, petra can only buff one element at a time which is fine for Neuvillette teams, but most other places you're probably running tenacity, which is a significantly worse buff. Those are just a few flaws in your arguments.
Characters cost too much time, resin, primogems or money so people will always nitpick to avoid getting them. I did that all the time too. But half the time I was right and it saved me a lot of frustration while the other half, there are reruns for that reason.
Furina isn't an upgrade for neuvillete and hu tao ? Are you sure you aren't just looking at things from speedrunning perspective and comparing it to cringe VV setups ? Because it doesn't seem like we are playing the same game. Also, most of these points are just nitpicks, like saying furina doesn't have xingqiu's res to interruption, yet no one uses xingqiu anymore these days aside from zajeff. I haven't used kazuha in months, and haven't felt the need for grouping because i just delete groupable enemies in 1-2 clicks. Scroll set being used by mavuika can also apply to kazuha and VV. Crystal issues with navia apply to zhongli too, because his pillar is just a myth. If you can play navia with zhongli, you can play her with xilonen. Some of the points are valid, but at the end of the day, those are just specific scenarios. If people get to choose between 15-20s buff window, and 8-10s buff window, not many will chose 8-10 just because you get to group hilichurls.
"Furina isn't an upgrade for neuvillete and hu tao?" that wasn't what the video says. it was about her not guaranteed to always be an upgrade for everyone's account situation due to various factors and their investment in ht and neuvillette. please watch that full video before jumping to conclusions
@@jamiekb9v You are the one who's used the title of your video to make a point bro, i'm just responding to what you said. At the end of the day, if people are watching videos on character analysis, their characters probably aren't bricked to the point where xingqui will outperform furina.
People can play same game and have different builds. Although honestly I never follow any content creator advices cos they often just contradict to my playstyle. If your goal is just for Spiral Abyss and IT someone who cleared with 8 mins 30 seconds should not mock the player who did it one minute slower, you still receive 800 Primogems so I won't say any character is good or bad 🤣🤣
Good video. I think it's important to keep a reasonable level of expectation with a character. At the end of the day, she isn't even out yet. Don't go along with the flow and get the new "must pull meta character" only for them to feel worse to play than your Zhongli.
the thing about Kazuah's grouping tho is that you don't really need it with Neuvillette for example, some floor also are easy to group by doing some quick movement, and seeing the upcoming Abyss, there's little grouping needed, I feel like they're kinda pulling a Venti on him
xianyun wasn't underwhelming though. She's a huge buff for hu tao, xiao, diluc, gaming, bennet dps. She was best in slot in for 4 characters and a sidegrade to the whole cast. She made any dps be able to clear by using her plunge multipliers thats a cool and worthwhile gimmick. She easily surpasses every other 5 star support shy of the top 3 of furina, nahida and kazuha. Arle was strong but she wasn't overpowered either. Her usage rate fell off heavy after her debut patch when characters like neuvi overcentralises the whole meta around him. I think jamie just has awful takes and to act like u were right with them is crazy delusional.
I think he have a scewed perspective becuase he look at everything as a speedrunner and he absoltuly underrate Xianyun, but in the same time he have good points and observations as well.
no offense taken its all good! besides, when xianyun reruns i think u will be suprised how many content creators have changed their minds and cooled off on xianyun hype over time.
100% agree with this, xianyun isnt even “niche” or “underwhelming” considering she makes every dogshit character have a team they can shine in and some characters get new bis teams like xiao, and arle living in a neuvilette world is her biggest downside 🤣
@@jamiekb9v hmm i don't think i will because I predict that xilonen will be very powerful and take most of xianyuns most prominant sidegrades. Rn though and all the time up on till xilonen releases she is still a powerful and worthwhile unit.
If you have nahida in team, she applies so much dendro that kazuha can't swirl electro anymore until enemy dies or nahida skill ends, xilonen can bypass this restriction
While it’s true that nahida erases electro aura alot, once you get used to the rotations, it’s the easiest thing ever. It’s just about knowing what skills apply enough electro and paying attention to auras. For example, you can swirl electro right after using oz bc it applies alot of electro. Xilonen would be great in aggravate still but kazuha is still way better here bc of grouping, and usually aggravate teams don’t require a healer. Most of the electros used in aggravate are quickswap so you don’t have to worry about wave content and buff uptime either. Tldr: aggravate teams aren’t a good example of teams xilonen will improve.
I mean, if Kazuha can't swirl electro due to Nahida, then Xilonen also can't crystallize electro due to Nahida. If Xilonen can bypass with her long duration buffs from her first crystallize, then Kazuha also can bypass it with his infused burst. Also, like the other replies, CC is much valuable in Aggravate comp
With how mostly everyone focuses on her skills/Res shred + use of the Natlan support set, it's understandable how many can dismiss the other aspects of her kit compared to others. Kazuha's grouping and DMG, Zhongli's Shield+Geo shield breaking, even Crystalize generation for Navia which hadn't crossed my mind along on how future characters MAY be better with the support set. Kinda gives me a new perspective and a good reason to wait and see how she turns out. Looking forward to see details on the sig weapon banner, I've been wondering if Albedo (I like the character) can benefit from either sword.
Albedo definitely benefits from both swords, Chiori weapon just about out damages cinabar spindle and Xilonin weapon will still let albedo deal decent damage while also buffing his teammates.
As someone who hasn't pulled a geo 5* since zhong in 1.5 and IT wanting us to diversify our rosters more (coming from a vertical inverstor), she's a dream for me, especially given she is an upagrade over Zhong in Neuv Hyper who is one of my mains
I'm still pulling since I don't own either Chiori or Zhongli for my Navia. I'm definitely not building my c0 Kachina to 90. Xilonen and Chiori will share a banner, but I'd bet that C0 vs C0, Xilonen wins for Navia. In terms of overall teams, I agree with your stance that Xilonen isn't going to replace Kazuha. Although, any team where they can be played together will have extremely satisfying results. We'll know by next week.
I think xilonen can be a good 4th slot for a cyno quickbloom team Considering her buffs last 15 seconds and more, cyno can benefit a lot compared to a vv shredder Shes also a geo character with no offield presence so she wont interact with dendro and mess up your reactions. In a furina team she can be the healer instead of baizhu, although the fanfare stacks would be harder to maintain so youd probably get around half of the fanfare buffs Plus she can hold the scrolls artifact set which can buff either furina or cyno. I tried a furina nahida cyno team with zhongli as xilonen temporarily and furina can clear nahidas dendro app initially to allow her (zhongli) to crystalize hydro. Baizhu is probably gonna be a more consistent 4th slot for multiwave content and better survivability but for a boss fight i feel like xilonen will buff cyno more
I've been thinking about Cyno aggravate with her more tbh (Fischl Nahida Xilonen) She solves the issue of short duration buffs that units like Kazuha and Sucrose have and has role consolidation seen as she fills in for a defensive unit One of the teams I'm looking forward to trying bc i feel it'll genuinely be a Cyno team that performs well without any sort of Hyperbloom shenanigans , especially in single target as you won't have to worry about reapplying Nahida's mark (which is still the biggest weakness this team has)
@@internetontheperson7550 thats true too and with an aggravate team, you dont have to struggle with swirling electro But i just generally prefer quickbloom for cyno and to be fair, the hyperbloom damage is still cyno’s damage but yeah hyperbloom is too op that it feels like cheating sometimes
I think you just need put a *disclaimer* at the beginning of your videos that your channel is directed towards min-maxers, speedrunners, whales, etc. not F2P players or beginners. But if we ARE opening the conversation to general account value, then you've lost your marbles if you don't acknowledge how cracked Xilonen is! She offers the highest innate Res Shred in the game at C0. And it's not that Xilonen makes a specific team the strongest of all, it's that she raises the floor for so many units that have few other options to increase their damage (similar to what happened during Furina's realease.) She's less conditional and easier to build than Kazuha, she can work WITH Kazuha (and Furina), and in many cases, match's Kazuha's utility. I don't think what you're saying is wrong, it's just the perspective of a vertical investor. --still much love and respect, Jamie P.S. Xianyun was another "Generalist Upgrade". She could take a useless unit and make playable just because of her kit-mechanic and corresponding buff. Is plunge Barbara meta? NO, but now you're actually using Barbara.
then every content creator would have to put disclaimers that they are focused on new players, or casual players, f2p, whales and so on. my perspective is not the only wierd perspective. there's nothing objectively correct about other channels that only focus on new players or beginners and don't know more sweaty stuff. every channel has different interests. still thanks for the support as always! 👍
@@jamiekb9v Most ppl do put disclaimers. Zajeff, for example used to catch hell because he was very unapologetic about units he doesn't like or think is meta. Now, he intentionally dedicates time and effort to F2P players because he understands as a popular theory crafter, a LOT of ppl of all different levels come to him for advice. Ppl who use crappy characters and wanna know how to help them clear the abyss, ppl wanna know what units make general improvements to otherwise weak teams. So on and so forth.
@@jamiekb9vThat’s a childish answer and you know it. In your video you aren’t clearly distinguishing between those two extremes either, sometimes going very niche and sometimes talking about whether to first go for your dps’s C1, which seems very much oriented towards newer players. What I take most offense with is the generic and clickbait title and thumbnail. I really wonder why you didn’t just go for a fair analysis, pointing out both pros and cons. Can’t help but think it’s because you wanted to be edgy and go against the hype?
She seems like a jack of all trades very good at all of them , not better than niche supports but almost as good. I do think she will be future proof since they can keep doing things like mualani where there's a very specific setup that cant use kazuha . One thing I haven't seen people mention is that natlan characters are buffed by other natlan characters, right now she is the only support but they could just do something like neuvilette where the third stack of the natlan passive is super OP. Personally I'm not a fan of them deciding to make a good general support from the least reactive element, it takes away all the cool interactions of swirls / specific reactions like bloom and overload and it's just "big numbers go brrr", sadly this seems like the direction of 5.0 with the same thing happening to burning.
This speculation seems kinda pointless since mr streamer doesn't look leaks and we are getting official info on everything once creator server videos will be live.
yeah I feel like this conversation is old as someone who follows leaks as people have already calced her teams and numbers for weeks. 😭 I do agree she isn’t complete kazuha powercreep because he has utility that she doesn’t that could be more useful in certain teams but having a strong 5* like her even being comparable to someone like kazuha says enough. + abyss needs two teams anyway.
Yep, I think Alhaitham teams still have room for a Spread support to avoid you swapping out if you still have mirrors in multi wave AOE. (A bit like how Chevreuse helps avoid some swap outs to reapply buffs/debuffs in Raiden teams.) I’d like a 5 star Electro shielder for it
doesnt really need anything, but if i had to ask for something maybe a better electro off fielder for his spread teams, C6 Fischl is what i use and am reluctant to pull on Yae just for one role
I guess one of things we need to consider is whether pyro archon will actually use the Scroll set or she will get a new set just for her. Especially considering hoyo track record for bringing new sets in X.3 though they also had a track record for archons in X.2....
in this situation she's a huge improvement for your account, as besides his concerns, she will be a sidegrade for most of team comparasions he mentionated
Doesnt read leaks ---- trys to rate the character without knowing numbers and how many particles she generates + buff uptime + character stat scaling. Meanwhile me who reads leaks --- she is broken da broken
For Navia, I'm waiting for a video about it now, I really want to know if I can just skip Xilonen without being wrong. The poor crystalization for Navia makes me wait, plus I don't like Xilonen design at all. I saw a video (deleted :/) comparing Chiori and Xilonen, and it seemed that Chiori was better in the end for a Navia team after C2, because even if xilonen buff are huge, the dmg input of chiori are so good that it surpass the benefit of improving navia alone.
Him: Over analyzing everything down to the smallest details to try to explain why Xilonen is not as good as some people think she is. Me: Pulling for Xilonen because she can scale mountains while skating.
22:00 yes the setup for this team is totally awesome, but if you want comfort, obviously you're trading dps for that, you can just ignore the Xilonen burst when you feel safe, also succrose sets up fast but doesnt heal and its buffs are short duration and single wave, again its a tradeoff and i think most of the cases Xilonen would be better, but yeah it depends on what future abysses would be.
@@james-bx4wr Was he specifically talking about speed running though? I think he has a point about Furina not being a guaranteed buff to Hu Tao for every player because playing that team to its full potential take a lot of mechanical skill to get the most out of it but I don’t see how the same thing applies to Neuv considering she’s plug and play for his teams and he stacks fanfare very quickly As for Xianyun she is only a BiS support for a few units but she’s not exactly niche. Aside from her utility as an anemo healer she has plenty of relevant teams like plunge Navia, Raiden, and Gaming in addition to the obvious ones like Xiao, Diluc, and Hu Tao. I don’t see how Hu Tao isn’t a somewhat close comparison to Arle either. Obviously they have the differences but their damage profiles and team comps are very similar There’s truth in what he’s saying I just think his takes are a little extreme
So I'll wait and see because I was thinking about Navia, but I rarely use her outside of geo-elemental control where Zhongli will always be the best. Regarding Mualani or Neuvillette, I think it depends, but some players won't get constellations or weapons for characters that aren't their favorites (myself included), but will have flexible enough support for them and the other characters might be interesting. About the overhyped, I would say yes, but what's funny is that some players think that now Kazuha will no longer be relevant, trash and impossible to clear the abyss with him because Xilonen exists. I've seen some players insist that they shouldn't pull Kazuha if they hope getting 36 stars. It is just ridiculous.
Interesting video for sure, I appreciate the discussion. Definitely still going for her, I'm currently running Navia/Zhongli/Furina/Xianyun as my main Navia team because Bennett is busy and I wasn't able to get Chiori, and I'm confident Xilonen will unlock enough better options overall to be worth.
Based on genshin noir calcs and gcsim clorinde is one of the highest dps units. Surpassing navia and basically wriothesley as well but not arle, hu tao or lyney. Also kinich and mualani. But she is equal with neuv. Of course neuv is better. But clorinde doesn't need any more buffers imo.
@@putent9623 this only shows (once again) how absurd it is to bring gcsim into consideration. I did actually pull c0 Clorinde myself, and unfortunately she's one of my most regretted units.
@@michael_bones she is pretty good at c0 tho once u get used to of her rotations, her nahida aggravate team is really good if you have all characters built properly even at c0 I felt it was a waste too at time of her banner but now I can defo say she is a great unit
@@singhoda for me her skill uptime is a huge issue. Got hit? You just lost a 3rd of your dmg. Need to run to a different wave? It'll end exactly when you get there. PMA decides to fly up? Well sucks to be you. And even if everything aligns perfectly, her clear time is just okay. I mean she clears the abyss, dont get me wrong, but of all the abysses we had since her release, she was never among the fastest options for me. Sometimes Nilou, sometimes Arle, sometimes even Raiden. Never her. EDIT: All that to say, I also hope (and expect) Mavuika to improve her overload team, which is a good thing.
You're not accounting for global crysttalize icd in the Navia section; even worse geo app doesn't necessarily mean less crystallize, and even 0 geo app gets you >3 shrapnel on Navia which is what you need for talent scaling increase, whereas 3-6 only give dmg%. It's not clear if Xilonen will be a big upgrade and Kachina is free, but she definitely is an upgrade and the concerns brought up aren't super sound
But you can trigger Vaporize and I bet buffing Furina+Mauvka damage is better anyway even if Navia is on the team as the onfielder. If she even is a pyro off fielder, nowadays I have doubts.
Ultimately it depends on the acc. As for me Xilonen will be a massive upgrade to me because i need more survivability other than grouping in all my teams because most of the time the grouping is useless to me thats why ihv been hesitant to pull for Kazuha. And the fact that she heals massively is even better to me due to having furina as well as her buffs lasting a really long time which zhongli wouldn't help me with
I think i will go for Nahida. I play dendro so much and Nahida is just THE dendro. No other option even comes close to her. She can also even be used on other teams like cryo teams or vape teams. I have a guaranteed this time radish kid isnt gonna escape me this time
Yeah Nahida is irreplaceable, probably the most valuable 5* in the game. Characters like Furina, Xilonen and Kazuha make teams stronger, Nahida makes teams work.
Dont do prerelease without leaks. Also, you literally showed Navia getting… most of her stacks. And Xilo fieldtime is 1.27s, 0.27s longer than swap cd, rly that bad for speedruns? Most low cost Mualanis need to refresh VV for next wave, Xilo wont need to.
A classic case of "Wait for actual teseting before pulling." Still, this video has brought me back to reality, if I can say that. It convinced me to wait for testing to judge if Xilonen is a good pull.
TL:DR 1. Xilonen might not generate enough Geo to produce Crystallized Shards (ICD) for Navia 2. Xilonen might lose Scroll value if Pyro Archon uses it. So Xilonen can lose half her value 3. Xionen won't help your Dendro teams or your Overload teams (Chevy). 4. New DPS's cons are too strong.
Hmm. I haven't watched the whole video yet, but going by this, it's not really enough to call Xilonen overrated. She might not be comfortable on a mono geo team with crystallize steals, but Navia is just one of many dpses in the game. Her not helping completely different archetypes like dendro or Chev overload is also an unusual nitpick, since those teams are completely fine on their own. Comparing her to dps cons is just... weird. Such a universal support will also benefit a lot from constellations, like Furina, so where's the fair comparison? I'll still watch the whole video, but my first impressions of it based on this summary is pretty bad. It just screams "uhm, akshually" just to be different from other content creators' opinions.
Lol 😂😂😂😂 1. Navia ER cost its only 60, just need another geo lol 😅 2. On what basis do you say she will lose value when she can be a healer and buffer with the special Natlan kit that Natlan characters need? 3. Did you think kazuha will help in chevy team? 😅 Bro forgot cheuvy only need pyro amd electro. 4. Cons support give you more power for your c0 dps. For example my hydro team C4 furina fastering , c0 yelan twilight, c0 kokomi proto amber, flex. 😅 Or Raiden c0, sara C6, kazu c0, bennet c6. Or Xiao c0, faruzan c6, xianyun c0, furina c4. See..? 😂😂😂😂😂
@@R_Batavia I don't know if you don't speak English or something, but I am not jamie. Also you have completely misunderstood what he said. 1. He is talking about Geo aura not Geo particles. 2. Scroll doesn't stack. Read the 4pc effect. 3. That's not what he said. He means you won't be able to fit Xilonen or Kazuha in a Chevy team. No idea how you got that confused. 4. Do you not know the word "NEW"? You should just watch the video since you are that dumb.
No you are wrong Navia burst is sufficient to generate her stacks just use xilonen E then Navia Q then benett E Q then Navia E that's it and in the mean time furina will help in generating stacks
the video was spot on. Xilonen is pretty much Upgrade over Zhongli in Neuv team, not even an upgrade for Mualani team, and for other team she is either sidegrade or just worse than Kazuha/Sucrose
I think ppl like to compare her with Kazuha because of the similar level of res shred, can't shred anemo, dendro or phys like Zhongli, only Geo as plus and the new set is 40% damage bonus like Kazuha's kit (not sure if she can't proc it? she doesn't have off field damage iirc). Yeah I agree pretty much people overvalues her for Navia and maybe Hu Tao? but double swirl setups are very hard for the average player, specially for Arlecchino AND melt setups, her debuff last longer and is multiwave friendly. and she allows to use and offensive fouth slot, since Kazuha doesn't have defesive utility.
every day i come back to see the newest comments. and it seems the consensus is that in fact she isnt overrated. perhaps a post-release analysis is in order addressing the very valid concerns now that we have gotten to play her (zajef style)
I think your points are good but honestly moving the end of the video to the beginning to explain that you don't think she's bad, just not meta defining, better than kazuha level would help a lot in terms of getting people to understand what your actual take on her is and come off as a lot less confrontational. I was planning on pulling xilonen but as a late game player I realized after watching that it's not like I need her to clear the content and so cons may be better if I'm looking to improve the teams I like
She can be good on some team, but you are absolutely right about Nuevilete Furina Kazuha Xilonen team. This is my current best team Nuevilete c1r1, Furina c2, Kazuha c0r1 and c0 xilonen with favonius is enough
I think people are just hyped (not overhyped) for a new support character as the past couple patches, it's all been purely DPS or sub-DPS 5-star chars. And the last 5-star support character we got was a bit underwhelming i.e. sigewinne. I do get the point though that everyone should not expect xilonen to be this "broken powercreep support" as I've seen some CC's putting those words in their thumbnail/title to bait some clicks. But telling everyone to not be hyped for a new promising character is like telling a sport fan to shut up and not cheer for their new favorite team.
Dude literally starts off his argument by saying she isn't comparable to Kazuha when (with the ideal artifact set) they both give a large percent damage boost and a large resistance shred which works for PEHC elements. Like, sure, there's distinctions like grouping vs healing and Xilonen can get shred on geo, plus two elements is easier to do, but considering the reason most people extol anemo supports is the additional VV shred, why would you dismiss a character who shreds 36% to the exact same elements as not being like Kazuha?
because there's doesn't seem to be many team slots where you're deciding whether to play either kazuha or xilonen. I see far more situations where she competes with someone like zhongli for a teamslot.
People are talking about benching Zhongli in neuvillette teams (which personally I think it would be an upgrade), but.... if you wants zhongli, what about just switching kazuha??? Neuvi don't tends to need grouping, and you gain geo resonance and better uptime on buffs from Xilonen herself and Furina with the healing.
What are your thoughts on replacing kazuha in ayaka freeze? Ayaka can use both Shenhe and Furina (to an extent) while slotting in a res shredder, buffer, and a healer.
while Mavuika may utilize the Scroll set, i believe Mavuika will get her own specific niche set because that's the trend going on every x.3 and x.6 patches for me personally, what Xilonen is great about is its debuffing prowess, in kazuha teams you have to do proper setups is not always practical (specially to majority are casuals), you can do showcase "setup" because everything is aligned at first, but in actual combat situation where multiple factors comes to play, this is where xilonen capabilities shows up, specially in multi-wave and to those dps that uses lot of field time, the shred do not require to hit when already active and has longer duration = more flexible rotation, unlike in swirl if you miss you lose it, one reason why chevruse even at c0 offers competitive result than traditional hypercarry teams (raiden and arlec) scroll is just bonus for xilonen (and to any natlan chars), her shred mechanic is what makes her a good unit, apart from sustain healing, she can also be played differently at c0, which is becoming a thing now and its good, i remember furina wanters frustrations when others want on-field at c2 but swapped to c6, and majority of traditional characters alternate playstyle are locked behind cons majority at c6 well we'll see once she's officially released
Everything is okaish in takes but Mavuika even if she replace XL in NAvia team she will not trigger geo buff from scroll set because there is no GEO aura on regular enemies so she cant make pyro to geo reaction for Geo+Pyro buff and Xilo can do Geo to Pyro reaction for Geo+Pyro buff
Overrating ? No people are giving her the exact attention you'd expect a Kazuha sidegrade that can be better in a lot teams or even work with him. She is by far the most usefull units since Furina, and arguably the most usefull non archon character since Yelan. That's a lot more exciting that our tenth pyro on fielder. Grouping is also so overhyped. Abyss has often very heavy mobs/bosses. And when it has mobs that can be CCed, they are usually extremely easy to kill, like the shroom in this abyss. Like there's a reason Venti is useless beyond floor 11. You play Kazuha for his buff, and elemental swirls. The cc is just a nice bonus that doesn't work half the time.
Out of the last 10 abysses, Kazuha grouping was very useful in like 8 of them and lowers your clear times much more than slight dps increases for most units. There are boss chambers, but those chambers are also almost always the easy chambers. For non-boss enemies that can't be Kazuha grouped, I can think of 1 of those enemies in Fontaine and 0 in Natlan.
@@farius8506 It's way too rare, and they are also largely increasing mobs hp next abyss. So they are likely going to cut down massively on the very numerous waves we got at the end of Fontaine. And even in those numerous waves, they are often full of stuff like the giant fontaine mech, the ruin grad or the wolves. That are not exactly mobs you cc.
the current abyss has a lot of light mobs where Kazuha's CC have been a lot useful to me though like of course if the DPS has large enough AOE it won't really matter but a lot of DPS also have small AOE that can still benefit from his grouping
@@hayate0254 This abyss is not the one to represent how good cc is. The shroom get one shot, the samourai group themselves on you fairly easily. The local legend fatui can very easily be grouped by just getting the fire fatui to do his jump. It might help give you a few seconds maybe ? But honestly it's not that needed. Hyperbloom or Al haitham or navia teams have managed to be really good with no grouping. Sure if we get one of these abyss with like 5 Abyss knights at the same time it will be super usefull, but that's fairly rare. And half or more than half of the abyss is single target heavy.
its actually the opposite, bosses are the easiest while fatui/desert mobs especially those wind and cryo operatives can be alleviated by CC even if just for a second since positioning is everything in abyss
I like how you explain in the video. I just felt that a lot of content creators really overhyping new characters without really involving the overall gameplay and trying it in other team for wide range of players without really going through every aspect value of the character.
Well, having a character like her in the current scenario where we have an endgame such as IT is definitely advantageous. Mainly when you're not allowed to pick an anemo character.
I want to say I really appreciate you making this video. I've shared similar concerns to how overhyped she's been, and I'm actually going to take it a step further - for f2p/low spenders that care a lot about meta value, I would highly recommend waiting until she reruns to pull for her. There's a chance she ends up being extremely replaceable and being hard to slot into teams in the future. There's two main reasons for this that you briefly touched on, but I want to expand with my own thoughts: 1.) It's not nearly talked about enough how much half her value is tied to 4p cinder city, because she's actually not a great user of it. In teams where Xilonen is the only geo character, the geo buff side of 4p cinder city is being wasted, and in reaction based teams like vape, you would need to crystallize both elements separately, which is going to take time and feel clunky. If Mavuika also uses cinder city, she would instantly trigger the buffs to both pyro and hydro instantly off a single vape, making it much smoother and quicker to play. 2.) Somewhat related to the first point, but something I think is important to highlight. While Xilonen will not be able to stack with future users of 4p cinder city, Kazuha can. This is going to make him potentially far more valuable than her in teams where the reaction trigger can also hold 4p cinder city. For instance, if Citlali is a cryo support that uses 4p cinder city, then Kazuha isn't going anywhere in a freeze or melt comp. If Mavuika can enable Neuvillette to forward vape, then she would replace Xilonen, not Kazuha. Its why I think this idea that Xilonen replaces Kazuha is extremely overstated. While generally I also don't recommend trying to predict the future, I think Xilonen's kind of a unique situation where it's hard not to. Xilonen carries the most future risk of replaceability of any character that I can remember. I actually think Xilonen's saving grace is something that I don't see being talked about a lot - she should be the best user of 4p petra that we've ever gotten, since she would generate the shard while still performing her rotation, which will make it much smoother than who we currently have.
i do agree with a few points you made hmm from what i have seen people were calling her geo kazuha because of the res shred incorporated into her kit ...but i see where you are coming from , its unfortunate how people are childishly hating on you when we all could be having a meaningful exchange of opinions 😅 anyways we will have to wait and see how she turns out in action... personally i will be pulling her ...meta or not i don't really care
haven't watched yet but the fact that xilonen is bad with anemo and dendro kills her for me. most of my current and future teams involve dendro and all of those teams have supports that they would rather have besides xilonen. she wouldn't be great with my wanderer either.
I live you thoughts on over hyped pre release characters. I think you are the balancing part of the Genshin community since every single content creators were hyping Xilonen.
My personal thoughts on Support Xilonen is that when we get another character who can run the scroll set Like possibly the Pyro Archon Using Song of days past on Xilonen will be the way to go and will bring up her relevancy in those teams.
this is really insightful, thank you for sharing this. I don’t have navia but it was interesting to see how much she is affected by another geo character’s application (as in the frequency). I also appreciate you pointing out kazuha’s utility in quicken (well really aggravate) teams. I think in sheer flexibility, kazuha can be played in more teams, and also more unique teams (such as tf kazuha with venti, baizhu, and fischl). what I’m really hoping for is the pyro archon to make my kinich team better, and also I’d be interested if she can replace kazuha or xiangling in a lyney team.
He clearly states that this was speculation, how is that misleading. Besides, he was right. Xilonen was being overhyped as a Kazuha powercreep (she isn't btw). Which isn't the same as calling her bad, she is "whatever number of S's you like tier" but she didn't break the meta. It's nice to have 2 kazuhas now, though
Hey guys, please watch the video and hear the concerns before you jump to conclusions 👋 I think it's very easy to get caught up in all this initial hype and miss genuine potential issues
Edit: 20:25 is an editing mistake 😅 I should have put a mualani team on screen when showing a team where Xilonen could lose the scroll artifact set. Ignore navia
❤
do you think she will be a QOL upgrade for Neuvillette vape?
You should put "C0 R0 ONLY evaluation" in the title. Since you didn't take into account C2 R1 at all. C2 R1 is where most of the hype is BUT I think it is good to put out a video like this to warn people not to expect too much from C0 R0.
@@THESocialJusticeWarriorInstead of C2 R1 xilonen you can get a C3 R1 Neuvilette or Mualani and at that investment they are already destroying everything
Thank you for well balanced and rational approach, that’s what i like in your videos! I personally think that she will perform greatest for casual and mobile players who is not able to do tight rotations and waste several seconds of VV/kazuha buff uptime getting staggered, doing suboptimal rotations etc. Also in her advantage, is worth to mention she work nice in multivalve content, because you do not need to reapply her skills to get res shred, this might be quite useful, depending on content and investment level.
I think we get so many main DPS that it's worth celebrating getting a very good competent support because we only have so many of those, like my friend has a problem where he has 7 main dps characters because he likes them, but they all use Bennet as BIS >.
Hoyo also just releases so many more main DPSes and almost every team is built 1 on-fielder + 3 off-fielder such that the bar for a support that’s worth pulling is so much lower. You can easily find good teams to play your 10th-best support while your 10th-best on fielder might see no play.
the problem is not only the lack of supps, it's that most units use the same ones. How many strong teams have you seen that run yunjin for example? Or lynette? More so than more and more busted supps that just push old ones away from the meta I think we need more specialized, niche supps like faruzan and chevy so that teams can have actual variety
@@irinapanova7577I agree
@@irinapanova7577 The problem with niche supports is that almost no teams use TWO of them, so niche supports are almost always played with the same old "general" supports in the other 2 off-field slots in a team. Even when you use niche supports you use them in teams where the other slots are characters like Bennett or Furina, or Kazuha (e.g. Chev teams almost always have Bennett too).
We don't *just* need niche supports. We need more generalist supports too.
I'm not celebrating because they decided to put a good support kit on probably my least favorite character design and concept, at least among characters I've seen released.
Saying Xilonen relies on Scroll is like saying Kazuha relies on VV. It sounds like bias.
it really is....
Tbf there are other characters that want scroll in teams as well. If U play Xilonen in a team that prevents any other characters from using it
@@ilikenewmeta9717 ? There are other anemo characters that can use VV other than Kazuha too. What is the argument here?
beign real, Kazuha is 4% better when using VV than Xilonen with her crowned skill, that and the grouping or healing are the only changes at C0, at C2 Xilonen is broken af and thas it
@@stelingard8203 on paper sure, but her buff lasts longer and you dont have to swap to her to reapply it, which is major in practice
Good video overall with some relevant points to keep in mind. Xilonen is very hyped right now and may appear overrated in some circles or calcs, but she is simultaneously indisputably powerful. Odds are good the top three staple 5-stars (Furina, Kazuha, Nahida) will become the top four with her release. That said, I think you're underrating a few things here:
- Xilonen's buff uptime, especially in multi-wave content
- Vertical investment on Xilonen, which buffs all her teams
- Value and versatility of essentially having two Kazuhas in a game where the hardest content requires two teams of four
- A bit more nitpicky: worst-case assumptions for Xilonen pitted against best-case assumptions for alternatives
I have a really hard time imagining Kazuha would still be in the 'top three' if he didn't have grouping
@@BluecoreGgrouping is kinda overrated rn. Every abyss has a "boss side".
@@brunopecAgreed, people never say this
@@BluecoreGGood thing Xilonen is more than just Kazuha with no grouping then.
@@BluecoreG such a weird thing to say. Yes, obviously removing one of his traits makes him not the best. That's like removing Xilonen's healing, which would make her synergy with Furina non-existent
aged like milk
Did it? She really isn't as gamebreaking as people paint her. Check his newest video, though. The one in which he actually tests her out, not this "first impressions" video where he clearly states that he is speculating
Your perspective focuses too much on single team performance, and completely ignores the fact that you need two teams in abyss.
Xilonen doesn’t need to be a Kazuha upgrade to be extremely useful. She could be a side grade or even modest downgrade (which I don’t think she is); she only needs to be the best option for many teams when Kazuha is unavailable to be very valuable to an account.
Also if you’re going to analyze vertical investment, you should do the same for Xilonen. How valuable is C2 Xilonen? Neuv’s weapon is good on Neuv, but does it have the same account value as cons on Xilonen? Etc.
this makes sense for his channel and public, because his analysis are more focused on the speedrun community, so evaluating her on individual teams happens to make more sense, as normally you speedrun only one side of the abyss.
I very much agree with you, but you also miss the fact that Sucrose and even Zhongli fill that gap already. More options are good tho, even more so because she might be better than those and Kazuha in some situations.
He is also primarily a speed runner so thats what seems to leak into this without him either realizing it or just not saying it cause if he just said this for speed run perspective only then 0 issue with anything tbh.
I mean he is forgetting casual player not doing stuff as optimally as him so kazuha loses with that in mind too.(most people do not do double swirl correctly at all for example)
But that’s only if you need a second kazuha.
@@Merquitarika They dont fill the gap because they are not healers, Xilonen allow you to run Furina with her, also she has better investment potential than Zhongli or Sucrose, so over time you should get her C2R1 and that is a huge upgrade.
She will replace Charlotte on many teams (Nevu and freeze teams) for example and its a huge upgarde. This also opens a Shenhe spot in freeze teams that didnt exist before.
She will just open more possibilities and let us customize the teams better, Kazuha for more AoE situations and Xilonen for more single target ones for example.
Hello, king Wrio glazer here
I do think your tune will change slightly when you see her setup time and ease of use. You said it yourself, the burst just seems to heal. You can't glaze Kazuha too hard for his fast field time without burst usage without mentioning her fast field time without burst usage. If we have an abyss again with three single target bosses, she's just uncontestably the best for many of the meta teams. If anything i think mentioning her "long animation burst time" is silly because the answer is "just dont use it lol".
Your scrolls point is good and people should keep that in mind. I also do see a future (re: mauvika) where she could be an XL upgrade who uses scrolls, which makes Xilo scrolls awkward. On the same vein, I don't think it's too crazy to think they'll release a new set for her too specifically because of this.
I don't like your point regarding cons; as you've said, you're not looking at leaks, so it's silly to bring up vertical con investment on DPS without factoring in vertical con investment on Xilo. You mention it as an afterthought at the end, but you may as well remove the entire section(s) regarding cons. Neuv, Mualani and Furina have disgusting C1/C2s... but so will Xilo, on a support who is much more generic. It's like not knowing what Furina C1/C2 do and making an argument Neuv C1 is better because it does a lot. Kazuha C2 doesn't even do anything for a lot of teams since you don't burst, but I have to imagine Xilo C2 as a new unit does :)
I don't think Zhongli is a fair comparison. When people say "Xilonen is Kazuha" they're referring to Res Shred + Buff, which is the same as Kazuha Buff + Res Shred. One provides grouping and one provides healing. I know you touched on that in this video, but you can't make a point that she can't be compared to Kazuha because hes a "the premium grouper first and then a buffer second" while instead comparing her to Zhongli who is a "shield first and a buffer second". On any content that does not require grouping or is grouping agnostic, Kazuha and Xilo are basically identical units except one can do double swirl tech and the other has longer res shred uptime.
For a more casual perspective, you can now run a top+bottom half Xilo Neuv team and a Kazuha Clorinde team. That's already massive for the vast majority of the playerbase and makes her a exceptionally value pull. I think this fact alone makes her unable to be "overrated". It would be like calling Kazuha overrated in 2024 because Sucrose exists.
I don't think she power creeps too much, but she adds another universal support shredder to the roster which was desperately needed, while opening up Geo (and double geo as a result) to more teams.
Regardless of my disagreements here, I think you bring up some good points (especially on the Navia front). However, you forgot the best DPS in the game, Wriothesley, so this video is incomplete.
Ok weirdo
hi evolutez thanks for the comment! my point about not wanting to comparing her to kazuha can make more sense when you look at all the different team ideas I looked at and how very few of them you are deciding whether to play kazuha or xilonen. most of the time, her slot in the team was replacing a different type of teammate. to me, them both having dmg% and shred doesn't mean much.
Well lets go through all of the top teams to see where she can replace either Kazuha or Bennett.
Arlecchino - Somewhat compatible in place of Zhongli on certain teams, cannot replace Bennett.
Neuvillette - Incompatible, cannot replace Kazuha for vape teams due to grouping needs, and cannot replace Kazuha in bloom teams because she doesn't react with Dendro.
Childe - Incompatible, cannot replace Kazuha or Bennett due to grouping and vaping needs.
Clorinde - Somewhat compatible, but only in place of Jean on an Electro Charged team.
Kinich - Incompatible since she doesn't react with Dendro, Bennett still needed for burning.
Lyney - Incompatible, cannot replace Kazuha or Bennett due to mono-element teams and the need for grouping.
Mualani - Compatible, can easily replace Zhongli and buff most of her teams.
Navia - Somewhat compatible, can mostly replace Zhongli and buff most of her teams, but cannot replace Bennett.
Wriothesley - Compatible, can easily replace Zhongli on Burning->Melt teams, but cannot replace Bennett.
We're seeing a very clear pattern here where Xilonen can very rarely replace Bennett or Kazuha on teams, but typically pretty easily replaces Zhongli on teams. Though it's completely possible that people will still want to stick to Zhongli for those teams, as he's primarily there to make the game easier, not to significantly buff the team's damage in any way.
I have to argue with the neuvi one - the only reason neuvi bloom teams are a thing is bc ppl use baizhu for healing and moderate shielding in a neuvi/furina/kazuha setup. In such a team, blooms are mostly a by-product of just doing your rotations, and kazuha is not even used in relation to them.
That is not to say that i think he can be replaced by xilonen there, but rather that she would take the place of baizhu. Sure, you'd recieve less survivability, but the buffing will increase. And i know that the more you stack res shred the less significant the effect becomes, but in this situation i would still argue that xilonen would be an upgrade.
That is not to say that i disagree with some of your other examples, like childe teams, because kazuha's grouping is still highly valuable in those. I'm just saying that your neuv argument lacks some consideration.
And also i do not think that the op mentioned anything about xilonen being a bennet replacement, so theres that.
@@thearchitect5405 i think you ONLY considered multi target scenarios
she doesnt have to reapply vv shred, so if you kill a wave too fast, you can still finish your rotation
she does NOT have to replace benny, since they provide lowkey too different buffs (as he provides one of the base stats, atk) while she provides dmg bonus AND resistance shred (what kazuha is used for, many times)
when it comes to grouping, she might not be better, but these days, abyss has been too much single target focused, with many waves.
also, using her in lynney teams, replacing kazuha would still make it for a mono-team.
the thing is, if she is more comparable to zhongli, then kazuha should too
also, being able to use her with furina might be the cherry on top, as bennett cannot heal above 70%, therefore not being able to trigger Furina's passive
Xianlings ICD doesnt matter because you have a 1s team wide icd regardless for crystalize
if you slow down the footage you can clearly see you got the same amount of shots on every single team, including Furinas.
The only problem I'd have with Xilonen and Navia is exactly this, if I start rotation with Navias burst its completely possible that Navias burst steals the crystalize during Xilonens field time and I manage to not proc the scroll set.
I can see myself having a reply to this comment but cant actually see it so ill post it again and delete in case yt stops being weird.
You simply dont burst at the start; you apply the element, crystalize with Xilo then set up normally something along the line of: Xiangling E Xilo QEn2 Navia Q Bennett QE Xiangling Q Navia combo
This way you buff both XL and Navia bursts(both snapshot *edit:Navia actually doesnt snapshot*) and dont get in the way of Navia's Q uptime and get a little more stack generation for her E
@@Danipazz16 Dmg% buffs don't snapshot...
@@razor5694 what do you mean? If Xiangling uses pyronado on a c6 bennet burst she keeps the full +15% pyro damage even if bennett's burst ends, pretty sure thats the same for almost every dmg buff
@Danipazz16 Sorry my bad, I got mixed up with snapshots that change numbers on stat page. For some reason I thought dmg% didn't change on stat pages
@@Danipazz16 Navia Burst don't snapshot tho :v
Got her, done a decent amount of testing so far, wasn't overrating her at all haha. If anything her Navia teams have performed slightly better than I expected.
The video is reasonable except for one thing, I don't get comparing characters constellations to whole new support cuz by that argument no support is worth pulling for since you can technically replace kazuha and zhongli with sucrose and Kachina then pull for c1 on neuvillette/mualani. Just because a constellation might be a bigger upgrade that doesn't take from the fact that she's bis for that team. That's a valid criticism for supports in general and has nothing to do with xilonen's kit. Also how are you the most positive about mualani when her and neuvillette have the exact same criticism? 😅
@@alaadawood5876 i think his point is more that this is a recent phenomenon. It wasn't an universal thing with older characters, like Klee would much rather have Kazuha than her own C1 but over the past year we've gotten weapons and cons that are on average significantly stronger than they used to be, so the value of supports over vertical investment isn't the same as it was two or three years ago
Agreed. The kind of player who cares about meta, vertical investment, and wants to play Neuvillette more likely than not have his C1R1 already. In which case Xilonen is a strict upgrade over Zhongli/Baizhu. He's pushing her as the horizontal investment option when it's the other way around.
This exactly! Plus Xilonen can be obtained in a couple weeks, whereas waiting for your main DPS to get a rerun could take months, even over a year in some cases. The idea of constellations vs BiS support doesn't really work as a comparison unless you know that both banners are coming up soon.
He's talking about existing accounts that already have the best supports currently and want to improve what they already have.
@@epicdarkraifournineone8006 only if you are early game lmao. Endgame players like me have alr good enough teams. I dont need meta chars anymore and for sure not a buffer that buffs my team only marginally
Very disingenuous to say that a huge part of her value is scroll and that it’s a reason for her being overrated. That’s a huge part of any natlan character’s value. It’s like saying that Kazuha is overrated because he relies on VV. Or that all anemo characters are overrated bc vv exists. It’s a BONUS, not a detraction.
Mavuika and future natlan chsracters likely won’t have Xilonen’s kit. And her kit is what puts her above other characters like Kachina as a support.
And it’s also plain false. Xilonen’s biggest contribution is the 36% res shred inherent in her kit that doesn’t have to be swirled, is inherent to the team on all nearby enemies rather than being on individual enemies that lose it when one wave dies, and lasts longer than VV buffs for more flexibility in teams.
The difference is that you aren't likely to play 2 anemo supports or sub dps together in a team doing swirl element dmg. There's not really a reason to run say, Kazuha and Jean together, outside of Faruzan comps which don't care about VV. Partially precisely because VV exists and anemos were built with that in mind.
The same can't be said for Natlan characters. It's not unreasonable to predict that there'll be at least one support or subdps coming in 5.x, that can hold Scroll and who you would like to play with Xilonen, but can't because it doesn't stack
Also about being disingenuous, at the start he said that those videos ended up being true, like really only the cloud retainer was
@@tracer4b why is xilonen locked to the scroll set in the first place? archaic petra exists as an alternative if you already have a scroll set user on the team. at worst she can use the clam set for some extra off field damage. yall are so dramatic
There's a reason you're not playing two anemo supports on vape team. It's because vv set does not stack.
The same way there will be no reason to play two natlan supports on the same team because the scroll set does not stack.
Xilonen has no competition right now since she's the first support to be released. So of course she looks good :) why do you think hoyo put her in 5.1 and not 5.4+ ? Because once any pyro support that can carry the scroll set is out, bye bye :)
Of course the scroll is a huge part of xilonen kit and not just a bonus, xilonen without the set has worse buffing capabilities than kachina with it so the viability of xilonen of ACTUALLY being able to use the set and proc enough reactions to get the buff is important as fuck
20:20 I see it as, if Xilonen uses scroll then Mavuika doesn't need to use it and can go for a dps set. It's like deepwood with dendro DPS characters, if you have a support who uses deepwood then you can go for other dps sets on the dps. Also, petra exists so you can put that on xilonen if you want scroll on mavuika.
22:10 Xilonen's burst is only needed for healing. Her actual buffing is with E and 2 NAs which takes a very small amount of time. I don't blame you since it's very hard to get this just looking at her kit and not at leaks
@@steakholder117 and pretty sure we'll get another Artifacts set in 5.3, from some "sus" leaks its for Xilonen and Citali sets. And Mavuika BiS is still Scroll set.
Why is the xilonen set two patches later@@cruLife-morningSTAR
Only characters released with a new artifact set and who didnt use it are Ayaka and Xianyun. And Xianyun can still use SoDP. Ayaka doesnt use emblem/shime. If mavuika releases in 5.3 with new set, shes using it. Hero seems to be xilonen oriented set.
Also in the abyss Xilonen and Mavuika could each use the set on different teams
Yeah it's starting to seem like Mavuika will actually use a different set from the Cinders one. And I'm betting that it will be offense-oriented, rather than supportive, similar to Furina.
It's interesting how this is the first time I see anyone talk about crystallize generation for Navia teams. It's a point I always bring up when discussing her teams, but most people don't seem to consider it at all
That and double crystallise setups being awkward are the two biggest nitpicks I've had with people saying she'll be the strongest possible support for most teams
All of what you said and people genuinely just undervalue cc a ton.
@@irinapanova7577 yeah that's also true. I never thought I'd see a day where kazuha of all characters was underrated, but I've seen more and more people dismissing cc completely over the past year, even before Xilonen.
I get that Neuvillette doesn't care about cc because he's very unbalanced, but that's just one character 😅
Navia never needed second geo for crystalize , you usually use her either with chiori or zhongli and they barerly do anything for her in this regard. Her burst is all she needs
@@PabloRodriguezreal chiori significantly helps with crystallises, what do you mean?
Navia's burst alone is enough to generate crystalized shards for herself. Xilonen will most definitely be best in slot on her teams.
Your take on Neuvillette team is a bit strange to me
1) why do we even need any supports? Can't i just pull for c6 Neuvillette then? If in your opinion xilo is worse than c1 Neuv then i can skip Furina and Kazuha too and just pull for c6. Same with Arle, like i can skip Kazuha and Bennet and just pull c6. You can say this about any dps
2) what if i already have c1 Neuvillette😂?
3) xilonen banner is starting in a few days while Neuvillette banner is not, so why should i skip xilo now and wait to pull for Neuv cons?
4) we have 2 halfs in abyss, even if xilo isn't better than c1 you can use her with other characters. C1 Neuv buffs only his own damage, xilo gives buffs to many other characters
5) xilo buffs not only Neuv damage but Furina's too so i don't know if c1 Neuv team damage will be higher than c0+xilo team damage
6) I don't really understand your point on "your own account". Xilo buffing c0 Neuv team is a fact, it's objective that this team will do more damage than Zhongli team
His takes are more speedrun -focused rather than the casual/meta side. For instance, Kazuha's main problem for most players is his uptime. And Xilonen fixes that. That said, Kazuha's downtime doesn't affect most speedruns especially for people with his C1. This is why takes on Xilonen varies, speedrunners like Jamie are less enthusiastic or may not see the value in her while Meta TCs praise her lot.
@@schubert9613 Just to add to this, Jamie's the owner of an EN speedrunning community discord and has a lot of personal experience with optimizing speedruns. He also does Viewer Abyss clears for people who are struggling.
1) Taken logically, yes, that is correct, c6 neuv or c6 mua or c6 arle results in much faster clear times than investing in supports. I'm a speedrunner myself, and I can confirm even just c1 Arlecchino can reduce clear time by as much as 30 seconds, absolutely massive since their "c0" clear time is around 80-90s. If you go all the way to c6 you start clearing in 10s. That is such a huge boost, imagine being 50% faster just from c1. By contrast, the "performance bump" you can gain from switching from kazuha -> xilonen is very marginal and it may even slow down your clear time because kazuha is just better for Arle.
2) If you "already" have c1 neuvillette there is c2 neuvillette and all the way up to c6 neuvillete. Xilonen does diversify your account (she can be used for teams other than neuv) so its a question of vertical vs horizontal investment...some ppl prefer horizontal and some prefer vertical.
3) It's definitely something that people can do yes
4) The "two halves" argument was valid 2 years ago with a more limited unit roster. These days, there are more than 80 units available (soon to be 90), there are just so many units that a long time player should never have trouble picking out absolute best-in-slots for both sides, and have no room for "less optimal but can make do" picks. Especially when there's top tier behemoth teams like Mualani who don't use any "power units" and want Sucrose or Candace.
5) If you've seen Neuv c1 speedruns you can immediately see there is a massive gain from his c1 vs Neuv c0 speedruns.
6) Damage isnt the only story its a complete package. Most players, especially non-speedrunners, need the IR that zhongli provides. The players that CAN play neuv shieldless are like Jamie and me, and people like us would rather play Vape Neuv instead because of its higher ceiling. So once its "tryhard" scenarios Xilonen is not just competing with Zhongli anymore she is competing with a whole multiplicative reaction.
@@schubert9613 But in the same breath he talks about Zhongli's comfort not being replaceable and the value of his shield for C0 Neuvillette when it's plain fact that Xilonen is a damage upgrade and so should clear faster in speed runs. The truth is he flip flops between casual and speed run when it suits his argument.
@@mf2854100%. Some of his arguments make sense, but he fails to give proper context. What is worse is the click-bait title and thumbnail, which don’t specify anything, whether focus on casual or speed-run.
@@leedevee Yeah. I agree we shouldnt overhype at everything. But see these comment make me wonder is he try to calm community or blackmailed Xilonen? Also as speedruuner perspective? Dude, how many players from 4.5 millions daily mobile player is speedrunner? Im not disrespect speedrunner player, but put that on video title if this from speedrunner POV, not casual. Because yeah i feel clickbaited by the title & surprise when watch the video.
well this aged like milk
Yes, vertical investment in new dps is worth it but keep in mind that you need 2 teams to clear the abyss… and don’t even get me started on imaginarium where you need 20 something characters AND you are restricted by elements.
I am the type of player that actually pulls for cons and weapons for the characters i like but i would not skip an universal support like xilonen, having many characters is now more valuable than ever.
20:25 probably the worst example for your point here because mavuika wouldnt be able to use cinder for navia becasue the wearer has to trigger the reaction and a pyro character cant trigger crystalize.
yep 20:25 is an editing mistake 😅 I should have put a mualani team on screen when showing a team where Xilonen could lose the scroll artifact set. Ignore navia but you get my point with other teams
No wriothesley mentioned?
Sorry. Mavuika with Xilonen can still hold Archaic Petra by just taking the crystal generated by Xilonen who herself holds Cinder City.
Good vid, i do want to point something out, regarding the Neuv C1 and signature example, im saying this for both casual and speedrunning, yea pulling stuff like C1 and signature weapon over supports for certain dps characters might give you a bit more dmg for said character, but the thing about this is that dps characters get powercreep way easier and faster, maybe eventually we get a stronger Neuv and maybe you stop using him, or maybe the new abyss lineup does't favor said dps character. therefore his C1/weapon become useless, meanwhile the support character can be used with that new stronger character or in that new abyss, i don't think is worth lossing a strong general suport just to get let's say 10% more dmg for only one character.
I mean you can get cons and signature, most these days are pretty good, but if i have to chose i whould always prioritize a good suport over weapon/cons, even if they get you a bit more dmg.
Your Chiori being c1 seem to be the reason why you have consistent shard generation. my Chiori is c0 and she gives my Navia only 1 more shard compare to my solo geo team, for only like 50% of the time at best. so between Chiori and Xilonen, I think Xilonen is a strict upgrade to Navia team, especially if her role is hypercarry.
This is a comment i left under someone else assuming c0 Chiori:
"Navia's burst is a big part in skill stacking because it creates both crystals(general 1s cooldown) and stacks(2.4s cooldown) so assuming the burst hits 2 times in 3s that means 4 stacks; chiori attacks on 3.6s intervals so she generates a crystal every time she hits UNLESS either Navia's E, geoNA or Q has already hit within the 1s cooldown. Generally, when Navia takes the field for her combo she has max stacks regardless of allies off field presence and after her first E use, while NAing, while Q is hitting the probability of an off-fielder hitting and creating crystals for her is kinda low, it might very well be a 1 or 2 at most crystals created while on field and for an already 4+ stacked skill"
Effectively the shard/stacks generation might be a problem only for the 3rd skill ""tech"" when her Q uptime has ended
@@Danipazz16 Now after rewatching Jamie's run, I even think that your theory does apply to Chiori c1 as well. The "maxed out" charged shot when Jamie plays Navia w/ Chiori only has 1 shard more than when he plays her w/ Zhongli. The geo application really doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to pick Chiori over other dedicated buffer for Navia.
I have both Zhongli and Chiori and I pick Chiori only because her personal dps can compensate my lack of decent build on my Navia, plus I play Zhongli with black tassel. If I have choices, I'd pick Xilonen over her at any situation, either for try hard or for comfort
@@thucancook2090 yeah, that might be actually true; i assumed the best situation where if one doll cant crystalize because of shard cooldown, the other can and creates a crystal, but only the first one might be the one "applying" the element(i dont have that deep knowledge in terms of icd cooldowns and rng for geo)
@@Danipazz16 not just the elemental application icd, the in-game limit of 3 crystals on-field at any given time, plus Navia's low downtime between each skill use, all hinder the effectiveness of using any off-field applicator to maximise the shard generation.
If someone choose a geo unit solely based on this factor, I think they might have a much better result running a second geo on-fielder for quickswap, or dual-carry play style w/ extended rotation
@@thucancook2090 true, i completely forgot about the crystals limit
Aged like milk lmao
this aged like dogwater lmao
Hot takes, yeah. I actually agree that she isn't gamebreaking when you have today top meta support lol
Just from my feelscrafting, she is Zhongli 4AP or Kachina 4Scroll pro max, but only excel at buffing. No gamebreaking mechanics like Kazuha with his CC, Furina with HP drain, or Zhongli thick shield+geo shield breaker, Xiangyun with plunge. She is 100% pure buff, until you pulling her cons for IR.
She is irreplaceable for buffing someone like Noelle C6 or Cyno, but in other comps, pretty sure she is totally replaceable with
Although I don't agree that vertical investments are better than pulling a brand new unit, especially when IT needs 20 characters to enter the highest difficulty and values alot on off-fielder and buffer than on-field dmg dealer
But overall, she is still great universal buffer for horizontal investments, but I do agree that people is overrating her alot if we are talking about BiS
I try to understand you and let me just say i appreciate you for trying to set our expectations, but... First, You're comparing mualani cons to a whole character without consideration of what xilonen brings outside of mualani, plus there are two abyss halfs... is you're op mualani gonna jump over to the other??? and you miss the fact that the op mualani teams usually lack a sustain, which is something non-speedrunners aka 90% of players aren't gonna attempt.
On second side you play international like a normal human being ?
inter who?
@@kdodkoeofofekfe3121 No normal human uses internat
19:42 mavuika is definitely releasing in 5.3, and we always get new artifact sets in the x.3 versions, so it's likely that she is getting a signature set for herself!
How can you be so sure? Baizhu was released in 3.6 and guess what? both of new artifacts we got this patch isn't for him. Yes, there's a chance that the new one in 5.3 will suit her but it can also be not, and past archon's signature set is always .0 ones.
Also, leakers said 5.3 will have two 5 stars. They may release a new artifact set for one of these 5 stars only, and one set for already release characters.
@@Kaminari2211 well yeah, u do have a point.
its hard to imagine a set better than scroll tho
@Kaminari2211 I mean, she's an archon they tend to get preferential treatment. Baizhu was probably the least hyped or desired character I've ever seen.
reminder that archons have never used the X.3 artifact sets.
Jamie thank you as usual for your insight but I’m at min 5 and I wanted to quickly address a problem with the crystallise showcase in Navia teams. With Kachina you used hold E at the start absorbing nearby shards, probably more than necessary, while with Chiori you used tap E at the beginning meaning that you saved more shards for later, making building up stacks for the 2nd E faster. With Zhongli, I’m fairly sure a shard wasn’t even sucked up because the bosses moved away and still the performance seemed similar if not identical to Kachina. I agree that with a 2nd geo applying geo off field you are more likely to get one or two shards more during Navia’s on field time but because of crystallise ICD it’s really a matter of timings and considering most geo characters have very awful geo application (Kachina, Zhongli, Albedo) it’s not unlikely that their ICD lines up making some geo app wasted , I did some testing with Kachina the other day and I was getting somewhat inconsistent results likely because of that but I didn’t investigate further. Anyway I mainly wanted to mention the hold E thing because it made the demonstration much less convincing.
Oh while I’m at it I’m not familiar at all with Chiori, I don’t have her and I have no idea of how her application works, when I said one or maybe two shards more I was thinking about the other geo companions I mentioned.
thats not kachina's hold e, thats her burst
i think you're mistaken, I don't use kachinas hold E in the entire 3:47 clip
@@jamiekb9v my bad for the phrasing. I meant that in the Kachina example Navia used hold E.
Eheh, sorry
@@jamiekb9voh btw I just realised Kachina used her Q only, you have her C1 so the construct stays on field for a bit but she only gets 20 Nightsoul points like that, if you use her skill instead she fills her Nightsoul bar and the construct if I remember correctly hits 6 times applying geo every other time.
The only true powercreep is how much you like the character that you are willing to invest on him/her over the others.
Xilonen:
- I find the burst to be a bit underwhelming especially if it only heals the onfield character.
- I hope she works with Itto or the mono geo team because it's the team that really needs a good geo buffer the most, unless they made her work best with teams who doesn't need her the most.
- Good points on the video about kazuha able to swirl 2 elements as far as info goes she can only shred 1 element if they have 2 of that element type on the team. She can shred 2 if the other one was Geo because she always have the geo up.
- as an example cinder city doesn't work well on a raiden team because it will only buff which ever was involve in the reaction that being the case of crystalize Geo & X element.
- as for people saying " not all people are that good with kazuha to swirl 2 elements" well that's really on them and people who wants or already have kazuha shouldn't really be discourage to pull him or be force to pull xilonen( and win the 50/50) because a lot of people say "Neuvi & arle top dmg must pull" when a lot of people even with having them can't clear the abyss with full stars due to when you get hit so hard with arle you are force to ult or restart same with Nuevi getting interrupted but if thats the case why not pull Zhongli? Has a shield because arle can't heal and has anti interruption.
- she is "versatile" kinda, a lot of supports/buffers are versatile but what makes her a "must pull". Example C0 Chevreuse is already good on overload a C0 4 star vs an expensive star and chev res shred is always up for both pyro and electro on overload.
Vs Kazuha:
- a lot of enemies on the abyss doesn't need groupings.
- this goes for both xilonen and kazuha if you invest on the DPS constellation and signature weapon like Nuevi or arle they clear so fast that you don't really need grouping or buffing that much unless you want that Big wow dmg. Sucrose or Kachina is just enough.
- Cinder city buff are a lot easier to get than farming for EM artifacts on kazuha not to mention the Def stats is a lot more common.
- Xilonen res shred is a lot more reliable than the swirl reaction.
- not everyone's best in slot is bennett so you cant guarantee that pyro swirl all the time unless youre that good.
- Both Xilonen and kazuha are not the best to get on a Dendro team a C0/C2 nahida is much better especially she is on Phase 2 banner. As for kazuha on aggravate clorinde not really due to clorinde's clunk it's much more easier for most to use Zhongli because if Clorinde got interrupted that means no dps is 0 dps.
vs Zhongli:
I will probably just say the positives because there is not much to say lmao he is a really old character.
- the best shield in the game no contest.
- Good for mental health you get that anti interruption, imagine playing on touchscreen plus the Lagfest galore that primo spent on him will be worth it.
Good video a lot of people won't appreciate it that much, but as for me I like it. Gives people to contrast with when there is already a lot of content saying her good/best part.
Aged like milk , she's insanely amazing
for real
I was gonnasay that
Did it? She really isn't as gamebreaking as people painted her. Check his newest video, though. The one in which he actually tests her out, not this "first impressions" video where he clearly states that he was speculating
@@Quasar634 name a better more universal support im waiting, also one that has such insane constellations and weapon these tc's should know best calcs dont translate directly into gameplay
@@Quasar634 L take literally best in slot for neuvi and mualani an upgrade for for navia teams despite what this video claimed All with amazing vertical investmement potential to make her future proof. literally buffed some of the best cores in the game like yelan furina double hydro and created a new universal core for hypercarries neuv furina xilo. so yeaaaah aged like fine milk
well this didnt age well 💀
it aged extremely well as people realised she really is just Zhongli upgrade in Neuv team and nothing else
@@Mana-qp4uw?? Shes literally a kazuha sidegrade, and upgrade on certain teams. With much better Vertical investment. A universal Top meta support. What are you talking about
@@maxwu4145that's exactly why the video was right, because people overrated Xilonen as sme kind of meta changing character but she is not, she is just good, normally good, nothing else. Did you watch the video?
@@Mana-qp4uwI wouldn’t say just “normally good”, Kuzuha is an SS tier support and so is Xilonen. What’s better than one kazuha is two. More team compositions etc as a whole now
@@aSweetSummerSolstice keep in mind overrated doesn't equal bad. Jamie made this vid because alot of players were saying she would 'powercreep' kazuha or change the meta which wasn't true. She can be broken and overrated, it's not either or.
I get what your saying but I feel like her main strength is being able to be played in a team with kazuha unlike all the other vv healers we have, 80shred 80 bonus will be crazy no healer can do that
No point in 25 minutes of speculation when you don't know the value of her res shred, signature wep, or cons. Her kit could be -100% all res for all you know if you are avoiding leaks (or pretending to for the sake of your partnership). Most of what you said just goes out the window depending on her tuning.
18:19
I think double buff was always intended for Kaz, as it is even easier to double swirl electro charge. The devs should have tested, known that was possible, and decided to keep it in.
I mean any anemo user can do it
@@beachbaal9060 no
@@Wreckedandruinedand Any anemo user can shred both hydro and electro res if both are on the enemy right
@@aerohydra3849 thats just the res shred aka debuff, sure all anemo characters can do it with vv set. But not all of them can give dmg bonus like kazuha, em sharing like sucrose, or flat plunge dmg bonus like xianyun in their base kit. Some of them can give a liiiittle bit of buff, yeah, but i dont think they are even worth your consideration since the 3 examples i mentioned give actual significant dmg buff
While a lot of the points are valid, these feel like real nitpicks. Almost as if you're going out of your way to discredit her before you even know her full kit. It's even stranger when you take into account a lot of people hyping her have more information than you as you avoid leaks. Even the strongest characters in the game have weaknesses we can all point out if we tried, Kazuha included.
A few of the takes seemed like reaches such as stating her burst is going to delay set up time for Mualani, her burst is used for healing, why the hell would you use it in set up? Also the double swirl thing on electro and hydro? she has geo infusion and all those characters in the Raiden team have off field app, you'd spam NAs for 2 seconds and be good most of the time. In case of Mavuika using the scrolls set she still has petra to fall back on. Also when comparing to Zhongli, petra can only buff one element at a time which is fine for Neuvillette teams, but most other places you're probably running tenacity, which is a significantly worse buff. Those are just a few flaws in your arguments.
Characters cost too much time, resin, primogems or money so people will always nitpick to avoid getting them. I did that all the time too. But half the time I was right and it saved me a lot of frustration while the other half, there are reruns for that reason.
I just pulled for xilonen and she is meeting expectations just saying...
Furina isn't an upgrade for neuvillete and hu tao ? Are you sure you aren't just looking at things from speedrunning perspective and comparing it to cringe VV setups ? Because it doesn't seem like we are playing the same game.
Also, most of these points are just nitpicks, like saying furina doesn't have xingqiu's res to interruption, yet no one uses xingqiu anymore these days aside from zajeff. I haven't used kazuha in months, and haven't felt the need for grouping because i just delete groupable enemies in 1-2 clicks. Scroll set being used by mavuika can also apply to kazuha and VV.
Crystal issues with navia apply to zhongli too, because his pillar is just a myth. If you can play navia with zhongli, you can play her with xilonen.
Some of the points are valid, but at the end of the day, those are just specific scenarios. If people get to choose between 15-20s buff window, and 8-10s buff window, not many will chose 8-10 just because you get to group hilichurls.
Also no mention of innate synergy with furina, completely removing the dead healer slot.
No one uses Xingqiu anymore nowadays?
"Furina isn't an upgrade for neuvillete and hu tao?" that wasn't what the video says. it was about her not guaranteed to always be an upgrade for everyone's account situation due to various factors and their investment in ht and neuvillette. please watch that full video before jumping to conclusions
@@jamiekb9v You are the one who's used the title of your video to make a point bro, i'm just responding to what you said. At the end of the day, if people are watching videos on character analysis, their characters probably aren't bricked to the point where xingqui will outperform furina.
People can play same game and have different builds. Although honestly I never follow any content creator advices cos they often just contradict to my playstyle. If your goal is just for Spiral Abyss and IT someone who cleared with 8 mins 30 seconds should not mock the player who did it one minute slower, you still receive 800 Primogems so I won't say any character is good or bad 🤣🤣
Good video. I think it's important to keep a reasonable level of expectation with a character. At the end of the day, she isn't even out yet. Don't go along with the flow and get the new "must pull meta character" only for them to feel worse to play than your Zhongli.
the thing about Kazuah's grouping tho is that you don't really need it with Neuvillette for example, some floor also are easy to group by doing some quick movement, and seeing the upcoming Abyss, there's little grouping needed, I feel like they're kinda pulling a Venti on him
xianyun wasn't underwhelming though. She's a huge buff for hu tao, xiao, diluc, gaming, bennet dps. She was best in slot in for 4 characters and a sidegrade to the whole cast. She made any dps be able to clear by using her plunge multipliers thats a cool and worthwhile gimmick. She easily surpasses every other 5 star support shy of the top 3 of furina, nahida and kazuha. Arle was strong but she wasn't overpowered either. Her usage rate fell off heavy after her debut patch when characters like neuvi overcentralises the whole meta around him. I think jamie just has awful takes and to act like u were right with them is crazy delusional.
I think he have a scewed perspective becuase he look at everything as a speedrunner and he absoltuly underrate Xianyun, but in the same time he have good points and observations as well.
no offense taken its all good! besides, when xianyun reruns i think u will be suprised how many content creators have changed their minds and cooled off on xianyun hype over time.
100% agree with this, xianyun isnt even “niche” or “underwhelming” considering she makes every dogshit character have a team they can shine in and some characters get new bis teams like xiao, and arle living in a neuvilette world is her biggest downside 🤣
This is just not true until Xianyun c2
@@jamiekb9v hmm i don't think i will because I predict that xilonen will be very powerful and take most of xianyuns most prominant sidegrades. Rn though and all the time up on till xilonen releases she is still a powerful and worthwhile unit.
If you have nahida in team, she applies so much dendro that kazuha can't swirl electro anymore until enemy dies or nahida skill ends, xilonen can bypass this restriction
While it’s true that nahida erases electro aura alot, once you get used to the rotations, it’s the easiest thing ever. It’s just about knowing what skills apply enough electro and paying attention to auras. For example, you can swirl electro right after using oz bc it applies alot of electro. Xilonen would be great in aggravate still but kazuha is still way better here bc of grouping, and usually aggravate teams don’t require a healer. Most of the electros used in aggravate are quickswap so you don’t have to worry about wave content and buff uptime either. Tldr: aggravate teams aren’t a good example of teams xilonen will improve.
I mean, if Kazuha can't swirl electro due to Nahida, then Xilonen also can't crystallize electro due to Nahida. If Xilonen can bypass with her long duration buffs from her first crystallize, then Kazuha also can bypass it with his infused burst.
Also, like the other replies, CC is much valuable in Aggravate comp
With how mostly everyone focuses on her skills/Res shred + use of the Natlan support set, it's understandable how many can dismiss the other aspects of her kit compared to others. Kazuha's grouping and DMG, Zhongli's Shield+Geo shield breaking, even Crystalize generation for Navia which hadn't crossed my mind along on how future characters MAY be better with the support set.
Kinda gives me a new perspective and a good reason to wait and see how she turns out.
Looking forward to see details on the sig weapon banner, I've been wondering if Albedo (I like the character) can benefit from either sword.
Albedo definitely benefits from both swords, Chiori weapon just about out damages cinabar spindle and Xilonin weapon will still let albedo deal decent damage while also buffing his teammates.
As someone who hasn't pulled a geo 5* since zhong in 1.5 and IT wanting us to diversify our rosters more (coming from a vertical inverstor), she's a dream for me, especially given she is an upagrade over Zhong in Neuv Hyper who is one of my mains
Ever since you talked about the fact that MH is not efficient to farm for Lyney, I've been excited to hear your hot takes haha
I'm still pulling since I don't own either Chiori or Zhongli for my Navia. I'm definitely not building my c0 Kachina to 90. Xilonen and Chiori will share a banner, but I'd bet that C0 vs C0, Xilonen wins for Navia.
In terms of overall teams, I agree with your stance that Xilonen isn't going to replace Kazuha. Although, any team where they can be played together will have extremely satisfying results. We'll know by next week.
You can left your Kachina to level 20 and she works great both in Navia and Mualani teams, but at this point i guess Xilonen buffs are just stronger
L video lmao
Xianyun was probably my favorite characetr to come out in the 4.X patches and her strength is solid
I think xilonen can be a good 4th slot for a cyno quickbloom team
Considering her buffs last 15 seconds and more, cyno can benefit a lot compared to a vv shredder
Shes also a geo character with no offield presence so she wont interact with dendro and mess up your reactions.
In a furina team she can be the healer instead of baizhu, although the fanfare stacks would be harder to maintain so youd probably get around half of the fanfare buffs
Plus she can hold the scrolls artifact set which can buff either furina or cyno.
I tried a furina nahida cyno team with zhongli as xilonen temporarily and furina can clear nahidas dendro app initially to allow her (zhongli) to crystalize hydro.
Baizhu is probably gonna be a more consistent 4th slot for multiwave content and better survivability but for a boss fight i feel like xilonen will buff cyno more
I've been thinking about Cyno aggravate with her more tbh (Fischl Nahida Xilonen)
She solves the issue of short duration buffs that units like Kazuha and Sucrose have and has role consolidation seen as she fills in for a defensive unit
One of the teams I'm looking forward to trying bc i feel it'll genuinely be a Cyno team that performs well without any sort of Hyperbloom shenanigans , especially in single target as you won't have to worry about reapplying Nahida's mark (which is still the biggest weakness this team has)
Yeah now you say it she looks promising with Cyno.
People will skip her and then regret next patch when they realize how good she is. It's the kazuha skippers problem all over again.
@@internetontheperson7550 thats true too and with an aggravate team, you dont have to struggle with swirling electro
But i just generally prefer quickbloom for cyno and to be fair, the hyperbloom damage is still cyno’s damage but yeah hyperbloom is too op that it feels like cheating sometimes
I agree....Reapplying dendro is the main issue in multiwaves scenario which xilonen doesn't fix... Else in boss chambers cyno is already very good...
1:32 "let me cook" then proceeds to waffle the whole vid. xilonen is one of the best supports of all time, the hype is justified
8:53 “Now check this out!” I loved how you said that
I mean that geo energy drain is just awesome. Making the comparison to other geo characters looks ridiculous
@@Wreckedandruinedand I played Zhongli’s ost in my head
First time I'm ever jealous of Zhongli havers
I think you just need put a *disclaimer* at the beginning of your videos that your channel is directed towards min-maxers, speedrunners, whales, etc. not F2P players or beginners. But if we ARE opening the conversation to general account value, then you've lost your marbles if you don't acknowledge how cracked Xilonen is! She offers the highest innate Res Shred in the game at C0. And it's not that Xilonen makes a specific team the strongest of all, it's that she raises the floor for so many units that have few other options to increase their damage (similar to what happened during Furina's realease.) She's less conditional and easier to build than Kazuha, she can work WITH Kazuha (and Furina), and in many cases, match's Kazuha's utility. I don't think what you're saying is wrong, it's just the perspective of a vertical investor. --still much love and respect, Jamie
P.S. Xianyun was another "Generalist Upgrade". She could take a useless unit and make playable just because of her kit-mechanic and corresponding buff. Is plunge Barbara meta? NO, but now you're actually using Barbara.
then every content creator would have to put disclaimers that they are focused on new players, or casual players, f2p, whales and so on. my perspective is not the only wierd perspective. there's nothing objectively correct about other channels that only focus on new players or beginners and don't know more sweaty stuff. every channel has different interests. still thanks for the support as always! 👍
@@jamiekb9v Most ppl do put disclaimers. Zajeff, for example used to catch hell because he was very unapologetic about units he doesn't like or think is meta. Now, he intentionally dedicates time and effort to F2P players because he understands as a popular theory crafter, a LOT of ppl of all different levels come to him for advice. Ppl who use crappy characters and wanna know how to help them clear the abyss, ppl wanna know what units make general improvements to otherwise weak teams. So on and so forth.
@@jamiekb9vThat’s a childish answer and you know it. In your video you aren’t clearly distinguishing between those two extremes either, sometimes going very niche and sometimes talking about whether to first go for your dps’s C1, which seems very much oriented towards newer players. What I take most offense with is the generic and clickbait title and thumbnail. I really wonder why you didn’t just go for a fair analysis, pointing out both pros and cons. Can’t help but think it’s because you wanted to be edgy and go against the hype?
She seems like a jack of all trades very good at all of them , not better than niche supports but almost as good. I do think she will be future proof since they can keep doing things like mualani where there's a very specific setup that cant use kazuha .
One thing I haven't seen people mention is that natlan characters are buffed by other natlan characters, right now she is the only support but they could just do something like neuvilette where the third stack of the natlan passive is super OP.
Personally I'm not a fan of them deciding to make a good general support from the least reactive element, it takes away all the cool interactions of swirls / specific reactions like bloom and overload and it's just "big numbers go brrr", sadly this seems like the direction of 5.0 with the same thing happening to burning.
Such a weird take lmao
*bad take
This speculation seems kinda pointless since mr streamer doesn't look leaks and we are getting official info on everything once creator server videos will be live.
yeah I feel like this conversation is old as someone who follows leaks as people have already calced her teams and numbers for weeks. 😭 I do agree she isn’t complete kazuha powercreep because he has utility that she doesn’t that could be more useful in certain teams but having a strong 5* like her even being comparable to someone like kazuha says enough. + abyss needs two teams anyway.
Spot on.
Me waiting for a new support/buffer for dendro team (for alhaitham)
He really doesn't need any. Dendro teams are already quite broken.
Yep, I think Alhaitham teams still have room for a Spread support to avoid you swapping out if you still have mirrors in multi wave AOE. (A bit like how Chevreuse helps avoid some swap outs to reapply buffs/debuffs in Raiden teams.)
I’d like a 5 star Electro shielder for it
Kinich on an ER Cinder set.
Alhaitham's best constellation is Nahida C2
doesnt really need anything, but if i had to ask for something maybe a better electro off fielder for his spread teams, C6 Fischl is what i use and am reluctant to pull on Yae just for one role
number of casualties in this video:
1 kongamato the mountain king
1 arithmetic enhancer mek
2 assault specialist mek
2 suppression specialist mek
1 eremite stone enchanter
1 eremite gale hunter
1 kairagi (fiery might)
3 nobushi (kikouban)
1 maguu kenki (lone gale)
1 maguu kenki (mask of terror)
1 maguu kenki (galloping frost)
1 nemesis of coppelius
2 fatui skirmisher (cryogunner legionnaire)
1 eremite daythunder
I guess one of things we need to consider is whether pyro archon will actually use the Scroll set or she will get a new set just for her. Especially considering hoyo track record for bringing new sets in X.3 though they also had a track record for archons in X.2....
1. she cool
2. I don't have Kazuha
3. I don't have Zhongli
:)
so that's about how many thoughts I've spent on wheter or not I wanna get her
in this situation she's a huge improvement for your account, as besides his concerns, she will be a sidegrade for most of team comparasions he mentionated
Doesnt read leaks ---- trys to rate the character without knowing numbers and how many particles she generates + buff uptime + character stat scaling.
Meanwhile me who reads leaks --- she is broken da broken
i think he does read the leaks but just dont want to talk in the video
For Navia, I'm waiting for a video about it now, I really want to know if I can just skip Xilonen without being wrong. The poor crystalization for Navia makes me wait, plus I don't like Xilonen design at all. I saw a video (deleted :/) comparing Chiori and Xilonen, and it seemed that Chiori was better in the end for a Navia team after C2, because even if xilonen buff are huge, the dmg input of chiori are so good that it surpass the benefit of improving navia alone.
Him: Over analyzing everything down to the smallest details to try to explain why Xilonen is not as good as some people think she is.
Me: Pulling for Xilonen because she can scale mountains while skating.
Only in Natlan tho, if she is anything like Kachina.
Overanalyzing 🤓
@@angelblu2066 I know... But my autocorrect was hellbent on correcting me!
22:00 yes the setup for this team is totally awesome, but if you want comfort, obviously you're trading dps for that, you can just ignore the Xilonen burst when you feel safe, also succrose sets up fast but doesnt heal and its buffs are short duration and single wave, again its a tradeoff and i think most of the cases Xilonen would be better, but yeah it depends on what future abysses would be.
0:15 Idk other than the “Arle is OP” vid those takes all still seem a bit exaggerated
They were all accurate tho. Esp the first one when it comes to speedrunning perspective
@@james-bx4wr Was he specifically talking about speed running though? I think he has a point about Furina not being a guaranteed buff to Hu Tao for every player because playing that team to its full potential take a lot of mechanical skill to get the most out of it but I don’t see how the same thing applies to Neuv considering she’s plug and play for his teams and he stacks fanfare very quickly
As for Xianyun she is only a BiS support for a few units but she’s not exactly niche. Aside from her utility as an anemo healer she has plenty of relevant teams like plunge Navia, Raiden, and Gaming in addition to the obvious ones like Xiao, Diluc, and Hu Tao.
I don’t see how Hu Tao isn’t a somewhat close comparison to Arle either. Obviously they have the differences but their damage profiles and team comps are very similar
There’s truth in what he’s saying I just think his takes are a little extreme
So I'll wait and see because I was thinking about Navia, but I rarely use her outside of geo-elemental control where Zhongli will always be the best.
Regarding Mualani or Neuvillette, I think it depends, but some players won't get constellations or weapons for characters that aren't their favorites (myself included), but will have flexible enough support for them and the other characters might be interesting.
About the overhyped, I would say yes, but what's funny is that some players think that now Kazuha will no longer be relevant, trash and impossible to clear the abyss with him because Xilonen exists.
I've seen some players insist that they shouldn't pull Kazuha if they hope getting 36 stars. It is just ridiculous.
Interesting video for sure, I appreciate the discussion. Definitely still going for her, I'm currently running Navia/Zhongli/Furina/Xianyun as my main Navia team because Bennett is busy and I wasn't able to get Chiori, and I'm confident Xilonen will unlock enough better options overall to be worth.
update after Xilonen release, this is exactly what happened. Navia/Xilonen/Furina/Yelan and Navia/Xilonen/Furina/Mona are both performing well
I'm hoping for something that makes Clorinde even better. Maybe it will be Mauvika for her overoad comp.
Based on genshin noir calcs and gcsim clorinde is one of the highest dps units. Surpassing navia and basically wriothesley as well but not arle, hu tao or lyney. Also kinich and mualani. But she is equal with neuv. Of course neuv is better. But clorinde doesn't need any more buffers imo.
she is equal with nuvi? which weed are you taking?@@putent9623
@@putent9623 this only shows (once again) how absurd it is to bring gcsim into consideration. I did actually pull c0 Clorinde myself, and unfortunately she's one of my most regretted units.
@@michael_bones she is pretty good at c0 tho once u get used to of her rotations, her nahida aggravate team is really good if you have all characters built properly even at c0
I felt it was a waste too at time of her banner but now I can defo say she is a great unit
@@singhoda for me her skill uptime is a huge issue. Got hit? You just lost a 3rd of your dmg. Need to run to a different wave? It'll end exactly when you get there. PMA decides to fly up? Well sucks to be you. And even if everything aligns perfectly, her clear time is just okay. I mean she clears the abyss, dont get me wrong, but of all the abysses we had since her release, she was never among the fastest options for me. Sometimes Nilou, sometimes Arle, sometimes even Raiden. Never her.
EDIT: All that to say, I also hope (and expect) Mavuika to improve her overload team, which is a good thing.
You're not accounting for global crysttalize icd in the Navia section; even worse geo app doesn't necessarily mean less crystallize, and even 0 geo app gets you >3 shrapnel on Navia which is what you need for talent scaling increase, whereas 3-6 only give dmg%. It's not clear if Xilonen will be a big upgrade and Kachina is free, but she definitely is an upgrade and the concerns brought up aren't super sound
20:30 ..... Uhhh, you can't trigger crystallize with a Pyro character?? So on a Navia team Mavuika can't proc Scrolls set, only Xilonen can.
yeah my editing mistake 😅 i should have put a mualani team as the comparison
But you can trigger Vaporize and I bet buffing Furina+Mauvka damage is better anyway even if Navia is on the team as the onfielder.
If she even is a pyro off fielder, nowadays I have doubts.
Ultimately it depends on the acc. As for me Xilonen will be a massive upgrade to me because i need more survivability other than grouping in all my teams because most of the time the grouping is useless to me thats why ihv been hesitant to pull for Kazuha. And the fact that she heals massively is even better to me due to having furina as well as her buffs lasting a really long time which zhongli wouldn't help me with
great rage bait kappa
I think i will go for Nahida. I play dendro so much and Nahida is just THE dendro. No other option even comes close to her. She can also even be used on other teams like cryo teams or vape teams. I have a guaranteed this time radish kid isnt gonna escape me this time
Yeah Nahida is irreplaceable, probably the most valuable 5* in the game. Characters like Furina, Xilonen and Kazuha make teams stronger, Nahida makes teams work.
Dont do prerelease without leaks. Also, you literally showed Navia getting… most of her stacks. And Xilo fieldtime is 1.27s, 0.27s longer than swap cd, rly that bad for speedruns? Most low cost Mualanis need to refresh VV for next wave, Xilo wont need to.
A classic case of "Wait for actual teseting before pulling." Still, this video has brought me back to reality, if I can say that. It convinced me to wait for testing to judge if Xilonen is a good pull.
TL:DR
1. Xilonen might not generate enough Geo to produce Crystallized Shards (ICD) for Navia
2. Xilonen might lose Scroll value if Pyro Archon uses it. So Xilonen can lose half her value
3. Xionen won't help your Dendro teams or your Overload teams (Chevy).
4. New DPS's cons are too strong.
Hmm. I haven't watched the whole video yet, but going by this, it's not really enough to call Xilonen overrated. She might not be comfortable on a mono geo team with crystallize steals, but Navia is just one of many dpses in the game. Her not helping completely different archetypes like dendro or Chev overload is also an unusual nitpick, since those teams are completely fine on their own. Comparing her to dps cons is just... weird. Such a universal support will also benefit a lot from constellations, like Furina, so where's the fair comparison?
I'll still watch the whole video, but my first impressions of it based on this summary is pretty bad. It just screams "uhm, akshually" just to be different from other content creators' opinions.
It’s helpful though because I’m still not 100% certain I want Xilonen so I need more information as possible from both sides
Lol 😂😂😂😂
1. Navia ER cost its only 60, just need another geo lol 😅
2. On what basis do you say she will lose value when she can be a healer and buffer with the special Natlan kit that Natlan characters need?
3. Did you think kazuha will help in chevy team? 😅 Bro forgot cheuvy only need pyro amd electro.
4. Cons support give you more power for your c0 dps. For example my hydro team C4 furina fastering , c0 yelan twilight, c0 kokomi proto amber, flex. 😅 Or Raiden c0, sara C6, kazu c0, bennet c6. Or Xiao c0, faruzan c6, xianyun c0, furina c4. See..? 😂😂😂😂😂
@@R_Batavia I don't know if you don't speak English or something, but I am not jamie. Also you have completely misunderstood what he said.
1. He is talking about Geo aura not Geo particles.
2. Scroll doesn't stack. Read the 4pc effect.
3. That's not what he said. He means you won't be able to fit Xilonen or Kazuha in a Chevy team. No idea how you got that confused.
4. Do you not know the word "NEW"?
You should just watch the video since you are that dumb.
No you are wrong Navia burst is sufficient to generate her stacks just use xilonen E then Navia Q then benett E Q then Navia E that's it and in the mean time furina will help in generating stacks
Well now that Xilonen is here, this video aged so poorly.
Just stop with these type of ragebait video next time bro.
Can explain why this aged poorly? I think his main criticisms is pretty spot on
the video was spot on. Xilonen is pretty much Upgrade over Zhongli in Neuv team, not even an upgrade for Mualani team, and for other team she is either sidegrade or just worse than Kazuha/Sucrose
I think ppl like to compare her with Kazuha because of the similar level of res shred, can't shred anemo, dendro or phys like Zhongli, only Geo as plus and the new set is 40% damage bonus like Kazuha's kit (not sure if she can't proc it? she doesn't have off field damage iirc). Yeah I agree pretty much people overvalues her for Navia and maybe Hu Tao? but double swirl setups are very hard for the average player, specially for Arlecchino AND melt setups, her debuff last longer and is multiwave friendly. and she allows to use and offensive fouth slot, since Kazuha doesn't have defesive utility.
Xilonen would have been great to have during feast of the departed warriors event
every day i come back to see the newest comments. and it seems the consensus is that in fact she isnt overrated. perhaps a post-release analysis is in order addressing the very valid concerns now that we have gotten to play her (zajef style)
Broken or not, Meta or not, Powerful or not....
I'm still pulling for atleast 1 copy...
I luv Pucci Cats (or whatever kind a cat she is)
I think your points are good but honestly moving the end of the video to the beginning to explain that you don't think she's bad, just not meta defining, better than kazuha level would help a lot in terms of getting people to understand what your actual take on her is and come off as a lot less confrontational.
I was planning on pulling xilonen but as a late game player I realized after watching that it's not like I need her to clear the content and so cons may be better if I'm looking to improve the teams I like
She can be good on some team, but you are absolutely right about Nuevilete Furina Kazuha Xilonen team.
This is my current best team Nuevilete c1r1, Furina c2, Kazuha c0r1 and c0 xilonen with favonius is enough
I think people are just hyped (not overhyped) for a new support character as the past couple patches, it's all been purely DPS or sub-DPS 5-star chars. And the last 5-star support character we got was a bit underwhelming i.e. sigewinne.
I do get the point though that everyone should not expect xilonen to be this "broken powercreep support" as I've seen some CC's putting those words in their thumbnail/title to bait some clicks.
But telling everyone to not be hyped for a new promising character is like telling a sport fan to shut up and not cheer for their new favorite team.
Dude literally starts off his argument by saying she isn't comparable to Kazuha when (with the ideal artifact set) they both give a large percent damage boost and a large resistance shred which works for PEHC elements. Like, sure, there's distinctions like grouping vs healing and Xilonen can get shred on geo, plus two elements is easier to do, but considering the reason most people extol anemo supports is the additional VV shred, why would you dismiss a character who shreds 36% to the exact same elements as not being like Kazuha?
because there's doesn't seem to be many team slots where you're deciding whether to play either kazuha or xilonen. I see far more situations where she competes with someone like zhongli for a teamslot.
Going to age like old Kazuha criticisms
People are talking about benching Zhongli in neuvillette teams (which personally I think it would be an upgrade), but.... if you wants zhongli, what about just switching kazuha??? Neuvi don't tends to need grouping, and you gain geo resonance and better uptime on buffs from Xilonen herself and Furina with the healing.
Now you needa make a video on "Why You're Probably Overrating Xiangling" cuz damn near everyone that mentions her acts as if she has no flaws
Nah, lots of people dislikw her. Everybody thinks she’s super clunky and hard to use.
I'm tired of Xianling, I want a new off field pyro
What are your thoughts on replacing kazuha in ayaka freeze? Ayaka can use both Shenhe and Furina (to an extent) while slotting in a res shredder, buffer, and a healer.
@@briecarla556 it’s an idea for bosses. but generally factoring in AOE too, going without good grouping for ayaka is unfortunately a bad time 😅
while Mavuika may utilize the Scroll set, i believe Mavuika will get her own specific niche set because that's the trend going on every x.3 and x.6 patches
for me personally, what Xilonen is great about is its debuffing prowess, in kazuha teams you have to do proper setups is not always practical (specially to majority are casuals), you can do showcase "setup" because everything is aligned at first, but in actual combat situation where multiple factors comes to play, this is where xilonen capabilities shows up, specially in multi-wave and to those dps that uses lot of field time, the shred do not require to hit when already active and has longer duration = more flexible rotation, unlike in swirl if you miss you lose it, one reason why chevruse even at c0 offers competitive result than traditional hypercarry teams (raiden and arlec)
scroll is just bonus for xilonen (and to any natlan chars), her shred mechanic is what makes her a good unit, apart from sustain healing, she can also be played differently at c0, which is becoming a thing now and its good, i remember furina wanters frustrations when others want on-field at c2 but swapped to c6, and majority of traditional characters alternate playstyle are locked behind cons majority at c6
well we'll see once she's officially released
Everything is okaish in takes but Mavuika even if she replace XL in NAvia team she will not trigger geo buff from scroll set because there is no GEO aura on regular enemies so she cant make pyro to geo reaction for Geo+Pyro buff and Xilo can do Geo to Pyro reaction for Geo+Pyro buff
Overrating ? No people are giving her the exact attention you'd expect a Kazuha sidegrade that can be better in a lot teams or even work with him.
She is by far the most usefull units since Furina, and arguably the most usefull non archon character since Yelan. That's a lot more exciting that our tenth pyro on fielder.
Grouping is also so overhyped. Abyss has often very heavy mobs/bosses. And when it has mobs that can be CCed, they are usually extremely easy to kill, like the shroom in this abyss.
Like there's a reason Venti is useless beyond floor 11. You play Kazuha for his buff, and elemental swirls. The cc is just a nice bonus that doesn't work half the time.
Out of the last 10 abysses, Kazuha grouping was very useful in like 8 of them and lowers your clear times much more than slight dps increases for most units. There are boss chambers, but those chambers are also almost always the easy chambers. For non-boss enemies that can't be Kazuha grouped, I can think of 1 of those enemies in Fontaine and 0 in Natlan.
@@farius8506 It's way too rare, and they are also largely increasing mobs hp next abyss. So they are likely going to cut down massively on the very numerous waves we got at the end of Fontaine.
And even in those numerous waves, they are often full of stuff like the giant fontaine mech, the ruin grad or the wolves. That are not exactly mobs you cc.
the current abyss has a lot of light mobs where Kazuha's CC have been a lot useful to me though
like of course if the DPS has large enough AOE it won't really matter but a lot of DPS also have small AOE that can still benefit from his grouping
@@hayate0254 This abyss is not the one to represent how good cc is. The shroom get one shot, the samourai group themselves on you fairly easily.
The local legend fatui can very easily be grouped by just getting the fire fatui to do his jump.
It might help give you a few seconds maybe ? But honestly it's not that needed.
Hyperbloom or Al haitham or navia teams have managed to be really good with no grouping.
Sure if we get one of these abyss with like 5 Abyss knights at the same time it will be super usefull, but that's fairly rare. And half or more than half of the abyss is single target heavy.
its actually the opposite, bosses are the easiest while fatui/desert mobs especially those wind and cryo operatives can be alleviated by CC even if just for a second since positioning is everything in abyss
I like how you explain in the video. I just felt that a lot of content creators really overhyping new characters without really involving the overall gameplay and trying it in other team for wide range of players without really going through every aspect value of the character.
Well, having a character like her in the current scenario where we have an endgame such as IT is definitely advantageous. Mainly when you're not allowed to pick an anemo character.
I want to say I really appreciate you making this video. I've shared similar concerns to how overhyped she's been, and I'm actually going to take it a step further - for f2p/low spenders that care a lot about meta value, I would highly recommend waiting until she reruns to pull for her. There's a chance she ends up being extremely replaceable and being hard to slot into teams in the future. There's two main reasons for this that you briefly touched on, but I want to expand with my own thoughts:
1.) It's not nearly talked about enough how much half her value is tied to 4p cinder city, because she's actually not a great user of it. In teams where Xilonen is the only geo character, the geo buff side of 4p cinder city is being wasted, and in reaction based teams like vape, you would need to crystallize both elements separately, which is going to take time and feel clunky. If Mavuika also uses cinder city, she would instantly trigger the buffs to both pyro and hydro instantly off a single vape, making it much smoother and quicker to play.
2.) Somewhat related to the first point, but something I think is important to highlight. While Xilonen will not be able to stack with future users of 4p cinder city, Kazuha can. This is going to make him potentially far more valuable than her in teams where the reaction trigger can also hold 4p cinder city. For instance, if Citlali is a cryo support that uses 4p cinder city, then Kazuha isn't going anywhere in a freeze or melt comp. If Mavuika can enable Neuvillette to forward vape, then she would replace Xilonen, not Kazuha. Its why I think this idea that Xilonen replaces Kazuha is extremely overstated.
While generally I also don't recommend trying to predict the future, I think Xilonen's kind of a unique situation where it's hard not to. Xilonen carries the most future risk of replaceability of any character that I can remember. I actually think Xilonen's saving grace is something that I don't see being talked about a lot - she should be the best user of 4p petra that we've ever gotten, since she would generate the shard while still performing her rotation, which will make it much smoother than who we currently have.
And there's me : bro I can do roller on a wall with a fckn sick bad girl !
Always played solo Navia without anorher geo partner, shes more than capable of making enough stacks herself lol
i do agree with a few points you made hmm from what i have seen people were calling her geo kazuha because of the res shred incorporated into her kit ...but i see where you are coming from , its unfortunate how people are childishly hating on you when we all could be having a meaningful exchange of opinions 😅 anyways we will have to wait and see how she turns out in action... personally i will be pulling her ...meta or not i don't really care
haven't watched yet but the fact that xilonen is bad with anemo and dendro kills her for me. most of my current and future teams involve dendro and all of those teams have supports that they would rather have besides xilonen. she wouldn't be great with my wanderer either.
I live you thoughts on over hyped pre release characters. I think you are the balancing part of the Genshin community since every single content creators were hyping Xilonen.
My personal thoughts on Support Xilonen is that when we get another character who can run the scroll set Like possibly the Pyro Archon Using Song of days past on Xilonen will be the way to go and will bring up her relevancy in those teams.
this is really insightful, thank you for sharing this. I don’t have navia but it was interesting to see how much she is affected by another geo character’s application (as in the frequency). I also appreciate you pointing out kazuha’s utility in quicken (well really aggravate) teams. I think in sheer flexibility, kazuha can be played in more teams, and also more unique teams (such as tf kazuha with venti, baizhu, and fischl).
what I’m really hoping for is the pyro archon to make my kinich team better, and also I’d be interested if she can replace kazuha or xiangling in a lyney team.
19:42 kazuha relies on vv tho
Yeah lmao , she's simply a better kazuha similar on terms of kit but can heal too and has better cons
They should charge your for misleading information 😂😂
He clearly states that this was speculation, how is that misleading. Besides, he was right. Xilonen was being overhyped as a Kazuha powercreep (she isn't btw).
Which isn't the same as calling her bad, she is "whatever number of S's you like tier" but she didn't break the meta. It's nice to have 2 kazuhas now, though
@@Quasar634 its still misleading and he didnt correct himself. wow you are in every comment glazing him its kinda funny