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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ย. 2024
- In this 3 part series, we drive all 6 generations of M3 to experience the evolution of BMW's iconic sports coupe/sedan, and we'll find out which one is the best driver's car. In part 2, let's take a closer look at the fifth gen F80 and fourth gen E90.
Part 1: • BMW E30 and E46 - M3 G...
Part 3: • BMW E36 and G80 - M3 G...
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Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed driving my e90. I think those Hotkis big sway bars is one of the best mods you can do to help manage her weight over the e46. I sold my e46 for the e90 and while I love both I agree the e46 is the better drivers car but the e90 is the better overall car. Thank you for all the love on the old girl. Also forgot to mention the redline on mine was about 8800.
Yea and you can get it with 4 doors.
Hey boo
Salute to you for choosing the 4 doors, sir!
Wow 8800? GTM3 lol. Real nice car. I’ll have to checkout your recommendation for the sway bars and more
@1ROCKY89 bmw set the revs lower for prolonged life but its well within its abilities stock. I think I've only reved it out that far once or twice.
I’m so fortunate to have both an e92 m3 comp and an e46 m3 (modded with ohlins R&T, rogue SSK, Alcon 6pot BBK and eventuri Intake). Whenever I start getting hairbrained ideas to sell my e92, I take that for a drive and am immediately reminded that the s65 is not only the best engine to be in an m car, it’s a special engine over many cars.
I had both e46 and e90 m3s bought new at the time. Also drove my cousin’s f80 m3 when it first came our. The E90’s steering is by far the best feedback, a true OG BMW steering feel. E46 steering was plagued by the light steering feel due to e36 women drivers complaining the hell out of it to bmw how heavy the steering was in their cars. Thus BMW changed the system in the e46. But my E46 felt special to me more than the e90 since it was my first car bought new and it was so so good to own and look at. I always looked back and parked miles away to avoid any dings. But if I have to do it all over again e90/e92 would be my choice. It was just a bit better ultimate driving machine. I don’t even consider F80s as a BMW M cars after I drove it. It was synthetic, disconnected, and numb were my experience. Good comparison videos
I love your comparison vids! E90 will always be my favorite M5 😉
Rude...
I wish I never went back and drove hydraulic steering, for some of us, you cannot get past how great hydraulic steering is….not just BMW, all cars, new cars just do not have good steering feel.
Porsche, Ferrari and Honda have good EPS. And you can get a GTS steering tune, throw on some coilovers, get lightweight forged wheels and if you have the $$$, get carbon ceramics and you will vastly increase the steering feel of a F80 M3.
Great comparison. I am a bit biased as I own a E92 M3 uncorked. You buy it for the S65 and then you take the GT car out of it. It's hard to beat the S65 throttle response when you pair it with a light flywheel along with a carbon driveshaft then on top you throw a 4.44 BMW GT4 final drive into the diff. Also it's most likely close to 400lbs lighter than the E90 you drove. The stock car besides the engine is a bit underwhelming and needs some work to make it feel more special. I agree the DCT is much more suited to the S65, and the stock shifter plus the clutch aren't the best either. All of the shortcomings of the E9X M3 platform can be solved for the most part, but it won't match the F8X or the G8X for straight line speed. I do agree with the build quality having owned F87 and a E92. The E92 feels better build and the materials seem higher quality.
If you want to go fast then F8X is no brainer. The S55 makes so much more torque which combined with the longer wheelbase of the F80 or F82 makes it less peaky compared to the F87 M2. I also owned a N55 M2 which sounded okay, but like you said the steering is non existent, and throttle response is dull not even close to the V8. It always felt like the F87 chassis just cannot contain the torque which makes it fun on the road, but extremely frustrating to drive on the track along with the diff. I then drove my friends F82 M4 which was tuned and it was a blast. Yeah, it doesn't sound great, and steering is terrible, but you could control the car at the limit much better than the F87 chassis.
Who makes your lightweight flywheel and carbon driveshaft for your E92? Would be really curious to see your full mod list. My future mod list gets longer everyday lol.
@@MrPTManning Flywheel is from TTV RACING and driveshaft is from YFCM! Just some MCS 2 way remote coils, and full SPL arms along with solid rear subframe, poly diff bushings along with stiffer engine and transmission mounts.
Ok shut the phuck up about it though. I'm on the market for one and the prices have been hot and cold thanks to comments like these making them even more desired. I wish people would just enjoy things and keep the fuck quiet.
All M3s should come in yas marina blue
Yaaasss
More like yas queen blue 💅🏻
It is such a tragedy that the F8x M cars steering missed the mark so bad. There isn't a better looking sedan in existence, and the coupe is sexy af too...
The GTS steering flash is a big improvement
Yea these cars need to be tuned and then it turns into the best car you’ve ever driven
Love my F80 and E46 but I think peak M car is probably a E36 with a S54 swap. Kinda breaking the rules tho :)
I agree! the E46 is just a lovely looking classic!
The later E36 M3 Euro spec cars are basically that same thing. The S50B32 has pretty much all the S54 goodness with ITBs and dual vanos, plus a cable throttle instead of DBW. That's a dream car of mine
Agreed. Best of both worlds - the E36's lightness and nimble feeling and the E46's power. There's a guy running a fully prepped aero time attack E36 M3 with an S54 swap around some tracks right now in the US and he's shattering records
Watching all three parts of the comparison feels like the overarching theme was hyper focused on driver feel , engine sound , and overall engagement driving the car . If that was the premise of the comparison I suppose it’s spot on . However , items the F80 and G80 provide such as practically , comfortability, and daily drivability were somewhat discounted which is surprising given Zygrene’s choice to purchase a new Integra Type S to daily drive and track versus getting another S2000 or sticking with the BRZ as a daily drivable track car. Just funny how he seems to be very critical on driving dynamics and practicality (both spirited driving/ daily driving) when he’s actually having to buy a car which is clear in what he chooses to highlight in his Type S vids .
E46 and E90/92 both win!
Nice to see that E90 with Curtis's WTF Motorsports frame.
Mr WTF and I are good buddies and go way back.
The aftermarket PS4S tires cause the F80 to have poor feel and uncertain handling in my experience. Original, star-marked tires don’t exhibit this and feel much better, especially the star-marked Cup 2’s. Coilovers (in my case Bilstein PSS10) also dramatically improve steering feel on the F80. These two changes would go a long way to improving both the steering feel as well as the predictability of the handling on the F80.
With the F80 and E9X, DCT is the correct choice for gearbox. I’ve owned a manual F87 M2C and did not like it; my DCT F80 is much more enjoyable. Also, adding monoball lower control bushings helped with steering feel; GTS steering flash also does but haven’t done that yet.
I’ve owned multiple E9X, one E46, F87, and now F80. The F80 is the best all-around car, but E9X is heavenly when you get past the ridiculous maintenance requirements. It’s so easy to drive fast, and the S65 sounds so good.
Nah the dct is never the right choice
@@frankchoi7 when your wife can’t drive manual, it’s the only choice as a shared vehicle. Best of both worlds for a daily.
GTS steering tune is only part of improving steering feel. You also need lightweight forged wheels, some better tires (Cup 2), coilovers, and if you have the money...carbon ceramic brakes. Do all of these and you will significantly improve steering feel on any F8x chassis. There is a reason why everyone is praising the steering feel of the M2 CS. It comes with all of these besides the GTS steering tune. Lightweight wheels, carbon ceramics, Cup 2 tires, same steering tune as the Comp.
@@Unicornpirate It´s just a proper Suspension with a good alignment and some Uniball bushings and you are done. The Cup2s optionally give it the rest with the stiff side walls.
Zygrene type s spotted in Livermore!
F80 or E90 as a manual transmission daily driver performance sedan?
E90
Excellent video, covered every detail. Btw would you think e92 dct or manual is best, i hear the dct was designed alongside the engine and suits the ratios best but i love manual
Awesome video! I live in NC and before I saw the plate I could tell this was NC 😂
i dont love the e9x chassis but i agree s65 is one of bmws greatest motors. always thought it would be cool to build a hommage to the e46 m3GTR using the s65 as the powerplant.
You will have 100k subs by the end of the year
Thank you for not saying the obvious
He should but unfortunately it seems the audience for informed commentary on the greatest driver's cars from the modern era is quite small. I say this as a long-time subscriber.
@@verdict1163he should put out a few daily vlog “WAZZUP BOIS LETS GET IT TODAY WERE GUNNA DO A RUN TO STARBUCKS AND DO SOME HIGHWAY PULLZ ON THE KILL MAP FILMED IN MEXICO” style videos to get a bunch of quick subs it would be hilarious
@@verdict1163 it should stay that way.
Funny because your description of the f80 is how i feel the s2k ap1 is like. The EPS just kills the drivability of it. Very difficult to drive near the limit.
I'm curious, what made you choose to drive all of the generations in a non linear way?
Scheduling with the owners. It took us around 7 hours to film everything (M3s, M5s, and a few others) and people couldn't stick around the entire time.
Trust me, he and Kevin would have obviously preferred to drive them all back to back chronologically. But simply getting all twelve cars to show up on the same day was virtually an impossible feat. We luckily had a couple backups for some of the cars which we ended up needing. The fact that we managed to get every single M3 and M5 parked in chronological order next to each other at the same time was a hallelujah moment considering we’re not an organization with any sort of pull. We (shout out to my amazing co-host, Stephen Jo) were just a couple of random old dudes scrambling to find local folks with these cars who were available to come out and willing to let these complete strangers drive their cars unsupervised. It was an absolute miracle that we managed to pull this off at all. Ultimately, like Fenton said, a lot of these generous folks had other obligations and couldn’t stick around all day so we did our best with the schedule to get all the cars driven before the owners had to leave. I can’t thank everyone enough who helped and participated with the event. And thank you again, Fenton & Kevin, for coming to visit us little people in Raleigh, trusting us to provide you with some worthy cars, and producing these wonderful videos. This is what it’s all about.
Hey bro. Great video like always. Can you do a video in c6z06? See how you liked it
It's interesting how nobody really acknowledges the E93 M3 and it shows in their listings. Also the E9X M3 and E60 M5 are literally siblings.
F80 is equivalent to the 996 porche generation and the E90 is like the 993 GT.. quality and feel.. the sound from air cooled to water and V8 to Turbo powered 6 is similar in the let down as well.. not always do the generations get it right.. the new G80 has many good things except steering feel and weight..but amazing engine eve in the B58 M340. The V8 S65 sounds better mated with a 6 speed manual.
My only hesitation about the comparison with the E90 is that it is fairly modified, so not an exact apples to apples.
Yes its modified but nothing really beyond what many normal m car owners do. Lowered, engine tune, trans tune, sway bars and more aggressive pads. The carbon drive shaft really is the equivalent to a lightweight flywheel. Just slightly elevated the platform to something more responsive but staying true to its more GT sports car feel. I still agree the e46 is a better overall drivers car. But the E9x is a better overall platform.
3500 lbs just weighed mine
Came here to say the same thing 😂
God I hope he doesn't decimate the e36 review, I love mine, hate when it gets pooped on by others
So stock E46 is a better driver's car than modified E9x
Would you say an M2 competition is better than all of the 3s?
In my personal opinion only: E46 = E90 = 1er M Coupe > M2 Comp > M2 > All other M3s
Hard to say. M2C is very well rounded but there are plenty of things that the various M3 generations do better
@@big-R For me its 1M Coupe with a S65 and 6MT > All other M cars
@@Unicornpiratetotally agree with that and I'm of the same opinion, although that's not an original engine option in that car so I wasn't comparing all the possible builds out there
1M has the best chassis/steering/size, it is shorter and lighter than E46, just needs an exhaust and seats.
Agreed. E90 interior > F80 interior all day!
E90 is proper.
Echi echi echi 😂
Absolutely agree that the F80 interior feels much cheaper. I have an E90 m3 and I sat in a F80 and was really shocked at the difference. Everything you look at and touch feels inferior to the E90. One example is the center console armrest that is spring loaded in the E90 (I have the single piece armrest) and comes up on its own when you open it whereas the one in the F80 needs to be pulled up with your hand and does not have a button to open it because there's only a cheap plastic tab to keep it closed. Door panels also look cheap in the F80 as there is much less leather on the door and more plastic. The dashboard also looks like a mess, with a ton of cut lines and angles that give an economy car vibe. Even though the E90 is slower than the F80, the whole driving experience is just superior. Steering feel, engine sound and the way the car engages with you and makes you part of the experience is unmatched for the price and better than many much pricier cars. I love my e90 and will keep it forever, that S65 is a masterpiece.
Granted, I've never driven an automatic in manual mode, but to me, that "super agressive" shift in the E90 sounds like there's 1+ second delay between a paddle pull and a shift - so to me, it sounds super slow and unacceptable. I know a manual shift is slower than that, but as a user, I expect the shift to happen the very instance I send a command, not 1 second after. Imagine moving the stick, releasing the clutch, and then 1 second later getting the actual shift. This is what this feels like, at least watching it. Granted, it's faster than the manual, but looks like a more frustrating endeavour.
Too much camber from the factory
The F80 engine is not underrated and you should know better than to make such claims. Dyno it first. And then think about what Peak horsepower means, and then think about what turbos do in relation to Peak horsepower. Hint: they move it down the rev range, making it more accessible... which makes it feel more powerful when you're at 3000 RPM because the turbo one is at its peak power power, while the NA engine needs to get to 6k to be there. Geez, why do I have to educate people who MAKE A LIVING reviewing cars?
From the perspective of a luxury V8 GT car, im curious what your thoughts and comparisons are of the E92 DCT to the LC500. While the E92 may have a more "special" engine, the chassis fails to be a pure GT car nor a pure drivers/sports car, rather a 3 series first. Somewhat in between the LC500 and an SS 1LE per se, unmodded. However as a V8 GT car, curious how it compares to the LC500, unable to find any answers online, and unsure if i'm the only one crossshopping. They're at least one generation apart and priced differently (not accounting for work needed on an E92 to get it well sorted).
In the market for this, and the reliability* and still stellar chassis, engine and interior of the LC i think take the cake. Already have a put together FRS that may set the E92 as redundant. Getting older, have other issues and I don't want to get into modifying and fixing cars like before which the E92 would demand over the LC.
Great work as always. Much love from Canada.
I'm reviewing an LC500 soon. If you repost this comment once that video's out, I'll do my best to answer.
What an interesting cross shop 👏
The DCT in the E92 is more responsive than the auto in the LC500. Also the S65 has a much more motorsports feel. It's way more of a drivers car than a LC500. LC500 is a better long distance gran tourer though. And obviously more reliable. But less practical as well. You get a bigger trunk, bigger back seat room and more cupholders in a E92. I bet the iDrive in the E92 is better and more intuitive than Lexus's infotainment as well. You should watch Savagegeese's videos on all 3. He's done extensive videos of the E92 M3, LC500, and Camaro SS 1LE
@@Unicornpirate Well said, I think that's what I'd expect between the two. IRL I prefer the engine, transmission and look of the E92 more. The savagegeese takes are great. He's made many comments on the E92 not being a "true" sports car as-is, while not exactly built as a GT car either. M cars do this in general.
I recall his ZL1 review, however don't think they've done one on the SS, nonetheless not a car I'd consider.
While the LC may be a better GT car objectively. I'm curious how else they compare head to head.
The E92 appears to be the closest BMW to the LC, albeit very different. They're both special in their own ways.
@@UCMtouch The LC makes more torque than a E92 M3 but weighs about 300-400lbs more. So there is that. The M3 is way more of a sports car/drivers car than the LC. That's why you them at your local track day/HPDE/autocross event. It's a better driving chassis. Not to mention it comes in a stick...something the LC doesn't offer. Again the LC is if you want a really good looking reliable long distance cruiser.
The Camaro SS 1LE/ZL1 1LE is a better sports car than a E92 M3 IMO. Those things are built for handling and make much more power and torque than the S65.
The M3 and LC may seem similar on paper but are 2 totally different cars. I'd rather compare the M3 to a ISF as Lexus made that a competitor to the M3. It's an actual F product as opposed to the LC.