Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, And sorry I could not travel both ... Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. Well, looks like Robert Frost solved this one for us, Bill!
@@BenNS1971 On a standard curb regulator, the entire spring is lengthened or shortened (slower/faster). On the Spirate System, a ' flexible blade' attached to the end of the silicon that can be adjusted using a snail cam for very fine tuning. The "limited" is based on the flexibility of the 'blade' and not the whole spring. Very clever and indeed allowing for curb regulation.
@@watchartsci thanks for the explication, I really appreciated it. Based on its functionality and results I have no doubt that it is a regulator, though the technique may be a little different, but that’s innovation and innovation has always been one of the main goals of great watchmaking.
haha sillicon! the final full story from you. Great in depth on this trend in watchmaking. Before watching your videos i never knew that the classic way is what we need. ❤ keep it up bill.great stuff
Don't try to like a watch or brand. If it comes, then you'll know it. There's nothing I like less than someone trying to force their tastes on me, Michael. Take care, Bill
Silicon hairsprings are better in mechanical watches in every way, but one. They require less craftsmanship and thus don't fit the romantic ideal of a handmade luxury product. That said, you need to go pretty high end to actually get craftsmanship in any meaningful way with some exceptions.
@@ricardoronaldo837 for me, silicon can make sense in the midrange. There is very little craftsmanship involved in most Omegas, Rolexes or Longinesses. I do, however, appreciate mechanical watches in many price ranges and an escapement made of vibrating carbon nanotubes or something has got to be cool. =D The there are brands like Nomos, who make almost everything inhouse even though they are really budget friendly!
Olli, Lyrique has started working on our third watch with Agenhor-all hand-made ... all around top craftsmanship from bespoke movement, to the Voutilainen & Cattin case to the Metalem and Comblémine dials... high craftsmanship without the insane costs associated with a watch from a Boutique or AD. Take care, Bill
@@ollik8192 To be on the list for Étude N° 4, please contact: Dr. Abdul Rahman Abdel Razek watchesdoctor@gmail.com Provide Abdul with the following information: Full Name: Email address: WhatsApp number (if you have one): Country where watch will be shipped:
HI Bill, Thanks for another very fine video. I like silicon very much so that's my bias. I now have a Horage K1 which they claim has a silicon balance spring which is normally regulated, that is with a conventional adjustable "racket" with two pins to adjust the working length of the balance spring. Most silicon balance springs are free sprung, not because they are brittle but because their isochrony requires the full operating length, free of pins. The down side is that the adjustment is in the balance wheel and any difference between the two weight positions is doing to result in a vertical position error. For example 5 micros grams of imbalance on a 5mm diameter balance is 10 seconds of vertical position variation. The Patek Philippe Balance adjustment is far more sensitive and accurate than the ETA Powermatic 80 and enables much better adjustment especially when done for the owner. The ETA and the PAtek are about the same in rate stability but much different in position rate uniformity, except for an occasional accidental gem.
Tell me Dr. Jon that the lack of curb regulators is not because silicon hairsprings are too brittle to adjust. Generally, in purely mechanical watches, George Daniels believed that free sprung balances were far superior because of the fine weight balance adjustments could be made. Curb regulators just made it easier to adjust. (Even I can do that.) Of course Danieles eschewed the use of the keyless works in watches, much preferring key-wound. Take care, Bill
I really enjoyed this video Bill. Being true to form you set out the case for both silicon hairsprings and traditional metal hairsprings without bias, leaving it up to the individual to decide for themselves whether or not they prefer one over the other. Personally, I'm on team traditional metal. Best regards, Brian
Hi Brian, that's exactly right. For me personally, it's a matter of what's more interesting, and cloned perfection just isn't. In part, it's why I have trouble warming up to Seiko. They're excellent watches...every single one. Take care, Bill
Great reference video Bill. ❤ Small correction: Precision Engineering makes about 200,000 and not 50k hairsprings per year. I saw this in an interview given by E Meylan. That is a lot of ‘Moser Inside’ watches in the market! Stay safe all. ❤
Thanks for the update, Ardi. When I interviewed Edouard Meylan right before the Pandemic, I think it was around 50k, but 200k is certainly great news! Take care, Bill
Moser Streamliner Perpetual Calendar Smoked Salmon... such technical prowess! Best perpetual calendar movement, and in a package that can't take a bad picture!
Hi Bill. I think silicon will be taken up by all the major brands as it will save costs for the lifetime of a watch from production to servicing. This opens up the question for collectors are they pro-silicon or against. My own thoughts are the independent watch makers will become a lot more popular for those against silicon. I believe putting silicon into a watch is just poor watch making for the sake of profits and mass production.
Phillip, I don't think that the watch companies really care too much about what collectors like we think...otherwise we'd have more interesting ways to keep a constant force in a mechanical watch. You're not wrong about profits and production. Take care, Bill
Since 2018, the Baumatic movement uses a silicon hairspring. From Baume and Mercier; “The new hairspring is endowed with the TWINSPIR technology: a composite structure, combining two cores of silicon, alternately set at a 45 degree angle and bound by a silicon dioxide layer that also plays a roles in ensuring thermocompensation. Combined with a newly shaped variable inertia balance wheel, it delivers the following benefits: Improved accuracy of the movement in various positions and over the long run / Reduced sensitivity to magnetism / Greater resistant to small impacts and repeated vibrations.”
Only for a while Stephen. ValFleurier did make a silicon Balmatic movement but then had to pull it because of a legal beef with CSEM. To wit, "In 2019 it was revealed that CSEM had threatened legal action to prevent further use of Twinspir and the product was rapidly withdrawn from the market." However, Stephen, if you could find a Baume and Mercier with a Baumatic movement made between around 2018 and 2019 with a silicon hairspring, it would be a cool one to have. Take care, Bill
Great video Bill, definitely efficiency and mass production of silicone hairaprings is a step forward in the sense of machinery and service but backward for the watchmaking aspect. I think metal alloys will be a suitable alternative. Thanks Bill 👍🏽
Correction on the CSEM: the point is this: Switzerland has great universities, such as the EPFL, and the ETHZ, who do basic research in the pure sciences (including fundamental engineering problems). And they have companies such as Swatch and Nestle, who have great products, but Switzerland has little that bridges the enormous gap between basic research and product development. Bridging that enormous gap is the mission of the CSEM.
Hey Kiss, thanks for that info. A similar partnership was developed between Columbia University and the Firehouse development of a silicon hairspring. Take care, Bill
Thank you for sharing this video. Bill, this makes a huge difference in my choice for my next watch. a question I’ve been wrestling with, however, is whether or not the founders of some of these brands would’ve used silicon if the technology was available at the time. For example, would Breguet himself use silicone if it were available to him ? I really don’t know what the answer is. Clearly some founders would have, and some would not. What are your thoughts? Steve
With the technology today, we really don't need any of the mechanical watch tech developed by the likes of Breguet and Harrison. I set my watch by my iPhone or computer ... or my wife's Apple Watch. What would the point be? Instead, we have the great fortune to understand and use an archaic technology that's been long surpassed. Take care, Bill
Nice walk through … 👍 Quite a bit of Grey Area the some Brands like stay hush about 😮. The Third Tine in the Fork I think . “ When you come to a fork in the road , take it .”, Yogi Berra . 😁
@@AliReza-do5myit seems i cant because youtube keeps deleting my comments. Silicon hairspring fatigue is a subject widely discussed online tho. Its easy to find sources.
Great educational video! it seems watch makers are going to use silicone for mass market watches with relative lower price and for more fancier and expensive one use other hairsprings. Like Rolex that uses the silicone for Tudor but in its own watches use the blue one. Although Patek and Breguet seem to be anomalies
I think there will continue to be a fissure between the silicon and traditional ... want an accurate watch? Get an Apple Watch... or just go back to Quartz watches.😉
Hi Bill! Is the story a newbie such as myself has heard on the Internet (so of course it’s true) that silicone hairsprings eventually turn so brittle with age that they disintegrate , spreading silicone pieces/dust throughout the movement resulting in quite a mess. Is all this somehow connected to the almost unforgivable move by the Swatch Group which of course is the death a fabulous movement, the ETA 2824-2 via castration of a 4 hertz movement into a 21,600 VPH movement. The incessant corporate propaganda about the famed “Power Matic 89” and how great it is to have an un-regulated (no more user ability to regulate your 3 hertz movement ) movement because your hairspring has had the balance wheel regulator cock removed ……uh because….uh,….WAY more 💰💰💰 in having the watch shipped back to Switzerland ? I will NEVER buy another PM-80 . The one Tissot uses literally has a PLASTIC palette fork, not ceramic, not polymer….old Coke bottles, I guess. Bill, thank you for running such a superb channel..
Hi Bob...I don't think tuning a 4Hz to a 3Hz is a bad thing ... especially since I favor the lower Hz and frequencies (18,000 semi-oscillations/hr is my favorite) Check the top watchmakers, and they too all favor the lower frequencies-most under 4Hz ... same with most of the Grand Prix winners. I too wonder about the deterioration rate of silicon stressed by the oscillation of the hairspring. Now for Tissot watches...I still love the Tissot Heritage Petite Seconde with the ETA-6498-1 movement. A great buy for an honest movement that you can regulate! Take care, Bill
Right you are Andrei. One of their movements (Caliber ZO 342) has a silicon single-piece oscillator that replaces the traditional hairspring/balance wheel assembly operating at 108,000 so/hr (15Hz). I don't know if they still use it, but somehow they didn't get sued by CSEM. Take care, Bill
Silicon goes in tradition goes out. It's just a cheap way to get accuracy. Very delicate unrepairable, just parts replacers not true watch makers required for balance service. That's the reason Rolex used it for the 1908 if the watch falls out of +- 2sd dealers can swap out balance assembly and no long waiting due to sending watch out. Who knows maybe they did a study of complaints pertaining to service waiting time?
My iPhone and computer have lots of silicon and accurate clocks. I really don't need silicon stuffed in my mechanical watches Dom. Besides with your help, I was able to make a resonance movement. Take care, Bill
@watchartsci I'm with you, Bill, enough silicon in our elections they need to stay out of our quality watches. We need watches that have somewhat of a heart and sole for lack of better words, not high-tech plastic like cookie cutter junk. Thank you and take care Bill
And then you get Tissot with their Palstic pallet fork and escapement wheel and double down claiming it as HIGH-TECH ESCAPEMENT printed on the rotor 😢😮 WTF
Muhle Glashutte - nice backside, ugly face. Wearing it the other way round is actually a good idea with this one. Mine Terrasport kept impeckable time so the woodpecker regulator is definitely not just a gimick.
Pay attention, John. I said in most of their watches they still use Parachrom hairsprings, but in one of their men's watches (the 1908) they used silicon and in their women's Pearl Master. Think before you open your mouth, next time ... and every time. Take care, Bill
You never gave a credit to Nomos who developed their hairsprings in conjunction with Dresden University, a true in-house hairspring .
Velviaman, I never knew they did that, but thank you for that information! Take care, Bill
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
...
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Well, looks like Robert Frost solved this one for us, Bill!
And I thank you for the elegant solution, Abdul! If not already, the non-silicon group will be the road less traveled. Take care, Bill
Hi Bill , Thank you for solving the great hairspring mystery. Great presentation and very usefull. Your best video yet.
Happy it was helpful, Don. Take care, Bill
Omega developed the Spirate system that allows you to regulate a silicon hairspring.
Yes they did, Ben. Limited, but sort of like a regulator. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Hi bill, can you elaborate on that? Why is it “limited” and “sort of like” a regulator?
@@BenNS1971 On a standard curb regulator, the entire spring is lengthened or shortened (slower/faster). On the Spirate System, a ' flexible blade' attached to the end of the silicon that can be adjusted using a snail cam for very fine tuning. The "limited" is based on the flexibility of the 'blade' and not the whole spring. Very clever and indeed allowing for curb regulation.
@@watchartsci thanks for the explication, I really appreciated it. Based on its functionality and results I have no doubt that it is a regulator, though the technique may be a little different, but that’s innovation and innovation has always been one of the main goals of great watchmaking.
haha sillicon! the final full story from you. Great in depth on this trend in watchmaking. Before watching your videos i never knew that the classic way is what we need. ❤ keep it up bill.great stuff
Much appreciated Bobbe! Take care, Bill
I really want to like the Moser, but it is an acquired taste.
Don't try to like a watch or brand. If it comes, then you'll know it. There's nothing I like less than someone trying to force their tastes on me, Michael. Take care, Bill
Silicon hairsprings are better in mechanical watches in every way, but one. They require less craftsmanship and thus don't fit the romantic ideal of a handmade luxury product. That said, you need to go pretty high end to actually get craftsmanship in any meaningful way with some exceptions.
Agreed, it seems like you shouldn’t forfeit technology and convenience for traditional making up untill a certain point.
@@ricardoronaldo837 for me, silicon can make sense in the midrange. There is very little craftsmanship involved in most Omegas, Rolexes or Longinesses.
I do, however, appreciate mechanical watches in many price ranges and an escapement made of vibrating carbon nanotubes or something has got to be cool. =D
The there are brands like Nomos, who make almost everything inhouse even though they are really budget friendly!
Olli, Lyrique has started working on our third watch with Agenhor-all hand-made ... all around top craftsmanship from bespoke movement, to the Voutilainen & Cattin case to the Metalem and Comblémine dials... high craftsmanship without the insane costs associated with a watch from a Boutique or AD. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci I may jump on the fourth timepiece.
@@ollik8192 To be on the list for Étude N° 4, please contact:
Dr. Abdul Rahman Abdel Razek
watchesdoctor@gmail.com
Provide Abdul with the following information:
Full Name:
Email address:
WhatsApp number (if you have one):
Country where watch will be shipped:
HI Bill, Thanks for another very fine video.
I like silicon very much so that's my bias. I now have a Horage K1 which they claim has a silicon balance spring which is normally regulated, that is with a conventional adjustable "racket" with two pins to adjust the working length of the balance spring.
Most silicon balance springs are free sprung, not because they are brittle but because their isochrony requires the full operating length, free of pins. The down side is that the adjustment is in the balance wheel and any difference between the two weight positions is doing to result in a vertical position error.
For example 5 micros grams of imbalance on a 5mm diameter balance is 10 seconds of vertical position variation.
The Patek Philippe Balance adjustment is far more sensitive and accurate than the ETA Powermatic 80 and enables much better adjustment especially when done for the owner. The ETA and the PAtek are about the same in rate stability but much different in position rate uniformity, except for an occasional accidental gem.
Tell me Dr. Jon that the lack of curb regulators is not because silicon hairsprings are too brittle to adjust. Generally, in purely mechanical watches, George Daniels believed that free sprung balances were far superior because of the fine weight balance adjustments could be made. Curb regulators just made it easier to adjust. (Even I can do that.) Of course Danieles eschewed the use of the keyless works in watches, much preferring key-wound. Take care, Bill
I really enjoyed this video Bill. Being true to form you set out the case for both silicon hairsprings and traditional metal hairsprings without bias, leaving it up to the individual to decide for themselves whether or not they prefer one over the other. Personally, I'm on team traditional metal.
Best regards, Brian
Hi Brian, that's exactly right. For me personally, it's a matter of what's more interesting, and cloned perfection just isn't. In part, it's why I have trouble warming up to Seiko. They're excellent watches...every single one. Take care, Bill
Thank you for condensing this info into a video, i think this will be a valuable resource for a lot of people
I hope so Adam! Thanks man. Take care, Bill
Very informative, Bill, thank you for the explanation and great lesson on the hairspring debate.
Glad it was helpful Thomas. Take care, Bill
Great reference video Bill. ❤
Small correction: Precision Engineering makes about 200,000 and not 50k hairsprings per year. I saw this in an interview given by E Meylan. That is a lot of ‘Moser Inside’ watches in the market!
Stay safe all. ❤
Thanks for the update, Ardi. When I interviewed Edouard Meylan right before the Pandemic, I think it was around 50k, but 200k is certainly great news! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci yes Bill! Moser is in a good place in the 2020s.
Moser Streamliner Perpetual Calendar Smoked Salmon... such technical prowess! Best perpetual calendar movement, and in a package that can't take a bad picture!
My sentiments exactly Skwerl! Take care, Bill
Hi Bill. I think silicon will be taken up by all the major brands as it will save costs for the lifetime of a watch from production to servicing. This opens up the question for collectors are they pro-silicon or against. My own thoughts are the independent watch makers will become a lot more popular for those against silicon. I believe putting silicon into a watch is just poor watch making for the sake of profits and mass production.
Phillip, I don't think that the watch companies really care too much about what collectors like we think...otherwise we'd have more interesting ways to keep a constant force in a mechanical watch. You're not wrong about profits and production. Take care, Bill
Since 2018, the Baumatic movement uses a silicon hairspring. From Baume and Mercier; “The new hairspring is endowed with the TWINSPIR technology: a composite structure, combining two cores of silicon, alternately set at a 45 degree angle and bound by a silicon dioxide layer that also plays a roles in ensuring thermocompensation.
Combined with a newly shaped variable inertia balance wheel, it delivers the following benefits: Improved accuracy of the movement in various positions and over the long run / Reduced sensitivity to magnetism / Greater resistant to small impacts and repeated vibrations.”
Only for a while Stephen. ValFleurier did make a silicon Balmatic movement but then had to pull it because of a legal beef with CSEM. To wit, "In 2019 it was revealed that CSEM had threatened legal action to prevent further use of Twinspir and the product was rapidly withdrawn from the market." However, Stephen, if you could find a Baume and Mercier with a Baumatic movement made between around 2018 and 2019 with a silicon hairspring, it would be a cool one to have. Take care, Bill
Great video Bill, definitely efficiency and mass production of silicone hairaprings is a step forward in the sense of machinery and service but backward for the watchmaking aspect. I think metal alloys will be a suitable alternative. Thanks Bill 👍🏽
Well said, Abdul! You caught my drift, exactly. Take care, Bill
Correction on the CSEM: the point is this: Switzerland has great universities, such as the EPFL, and the ETHZ, who do basic research in the pure sciences (including fundamental engineering problems).
And they have companies such as Swatch and Nestle, who have great products, but Switzerland has little that bridges the enormous gap between basic research and product development.
Bridging that enormous gap is the mission of the CSEM.
Hey Kiss, thanks for that info. A similar partnership was developed between Columbia University and the Firehouse development of a silicon hairspring. Take care, Bill
Thank you for sharing this video. Bill, this makes a huge difference in my choice for my next watch. a question I’ve been wrestling with, however, is whether or not the founders of some of these brands would’ve used silicon if the technology was available at the time. For example, would Breguet himself use silicone if it were available to him ? I really don’t know what the answer is. Clearly some founders would have, and some would not. What are your thoughts?
Steve
With the technology today, we really don't need any of the mechanical watch tech developed by the likes of Breguet and Harrison. I set my watch by my iPhone or computer ... or my wife's Apple Watch. What would the point be? Instead, we have the great fortune to understand and use an archaic technology that's been long surpassed. Take care, Bill
Hey Bill, same debate quartz created - trade between cheap repeatable accuracy and craftsmanship - with price being the denominator. Regards, Ed
Yep, Ed. Take care, Bill
Thank you for this information, Bill.
My pleasure, Kofi! Take care, Bill
Nice walk through … 👍
Quite a bit of Grey Area the some Brands like stay
hush about 😮. The Third Tine in the Fork I think .
“ When you come to a fork in the road , take it .”,
Yogi Berra . 😁
😁 Yogi has the wisdom of ages, Nemo! However, the fork I like is the more interesting one-whatever the foot traffic. Take care, Bill
There are alot of scientific papers / patents which highlight fatigue and micro fractures in silicon hairsprings. Far from a perfect material
Can you cite them?
@@AliReza-do5mygoogle "silicon hairspring fatigue" there multiple papers on the subject
@@AliReza-do5mysearch with the term "silicon hairspring fatigue"
@@AliReza-do5mytried to comment three times but TH-cam keeps deleting my reply. They can easily be found on google; silicon hairspring fatigue
@@AliReza-do5myit seems i cant because youtube keeps deleting my comments. Silicon hairspring fatigue is a subject widely discussed online tho. Its easy to find sources.
Great educational video! it seems watch makers are going to use silicone for mass market watches with relative lower price and for more fancier and expensive one use other hairsprings. Like Rolex that uses the silicone for Tudor but in its own watches use the blue one. Although Patek and Breguet seem to be anomalies
This does seem to be the current direction so I wouldn’t be surprised to see the lower tier Richemont or LVMH brands switching to silicon in time.
Ed, I don't know about LVMH as a whole, but TAG Heuer is doing a lot of work with carbon hairspring development...who knows?
I think there will continue to be a fissure between the silicon and traditional ... want an accurate watch? Get an Apple Watch... or just go back to Quartz watches.😉
Fishbone hairsprings are a lost art...
You mean they stopped making them Dompret? Take care, Bill
Hi Bill! Is the story a newbie such as myself has heard on the Internet (so of course it’s true) that silicone hairsprings eventually turn so brittle with age that they disintegrate , spreading silicone pieces/dust throughout the movement resulting in quite a mess. Is all this somehow connected to the almost unforgivable move by the Swatch Group which of course is the death a fabulous movement, the ETA 2824-2 via castration of a 4 hertz movement into a 21,600 VPH movement. The incessant corporate propaganda about the famed “Power Matic 89” and how great it is to have an un-regulated (no more user ability to regulate your 3 hertz movement ) movement because your hairspring has had the balance wheel regulator cock removed ……uh because….uh,….WAY more 💰💰💰 in having the watch shipped back to Switzerland ? I will NEVER buy another PM-80 . The one Tissot uses literally has a PLASTIC palette fork, not ceramic, not polymer….old Coke bottles, I guess. Bill, thank you for running such a superb channel..
If what you’re saying is true,
I would stay away from anything having to do with silicone in a watch .
Hi Bob...I don't think tuning a 4Hz to a 3Hz is a bad thing ... especially since I favor the lower Hz and frequencies (18,000 semi-oscillations/hr is my favorite) Check the top watchmakers, and they too all favor the lower frequencies-most under 4Hz ... same with most of the Grand Prix winners. I too wonder about the deterioration rate of silicon stressed by the oscillation of the hairspring. Now for Tissot watches...I still love the Tissot Heritage Petite Seconde with the ETA-6498-1 movement. A great buy for an honest movement that you can regulate! Take care, Bill
i believe Zenith does use silicon
Right you are Andrei. One of their movements (Caliber ZO 342) has a silicon single-piece oscillator that replaces the traditional hairspring/balance wheel assembly operating at 108,000 so/hr (15Hz). I don't know if they still use it, but somehow they didn't get sued by CSEM. Take care, Bill
Silicon goes in tradition goes out. It's just a cheap way to get accuracy. Very delicate unrepairable, just parts replacers not true watch makers required for balance service. That's the reason Rolex used it for the 1908 if the watch falls out of +- 2sd dealers can swap out balance assembly and no long waiting due to sending watch out. Who knows maybe they did a study of complaints pertaining to service waiting time?
My iPhone and computer have lots of silicon and accurate clocks. I really don't need silicon stuffed in my mechanical watches Dom. Besides with your help, I was able to make a resonance movement. Take care, Bill
@watchartsci I'm with you, Bill, enough silicon in our elections they need to stay out of our quality watches. We need watches that have somewhat of a heart and sole for lack of better words, not high-tech plastic like cookie cutter junk. Thank you and take care Bill
Great information on silicon hairsprings Dr.!
Haaaa Veeeee! Thanks man! Take care, Bill
Bill….is Nomos silicon? Thank you.
No Mike, it is not....now at least. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Thank you.
No, they make their own.
And then you get Tissot with their Palstic pallet fork and escapement wheel and double down claiming it as HIGH-TECH ESCAPEMENT printed on the rotor 😢😮 WTF
Gimme the old Tissot Heritage Grande Seconde with the ETA-6498-1-real mechanical works without the junk. Take care, Bill
Greetings from Canada….upvoted😊
Thanks Canada! Take care, Bill
You touched upon a few non Swiss brands but why did you not discuss Seiko, Grand Seiko and citizen group which are huge? Thank you 🙂
Good point Delboy. Take care, Bill
Muhle Glashutte - nice backside, ugly face. Wearing it the other way round is actually a good idea with this one. Mine Terrasport kept impeckable time so the woodpecker regulator is definitely not just a gimick.
Not at all, the Woodpecker is a fine adjustment element of Muhle Glashütte watch BlackClock. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Works great, like I said, but the dial looks awful in the real life.
Cool, now put the pics out there for copying & saving.
Ok Mark ... ah, which pics of watches are you talking about? Take care, Bill🤔
Rolex uses silicon, don’t know what you‘re talking about. They introduced it first in small sizes and there’s no end in sight
Pay attention, John. I said in most of their watches they still use Parachrom hairsprings, but in one of their men's watches (the 1908) they used silicon and in their women's Pearl Master. Think before you open your mouth, next time ... and every time. Take care, Bill