So happy to see such an amazing response after how hard i worked on this video, a subject that really needed to be addressed directly. If you enjoy my work dont forget to let TH-cam know by liking and subscribing and help me be able to do this fulltime 🫡
I just wanted to give you feedback, as you content creators think about this stuff. I clicked the video initially because the caps in the title emphasized what it was about. Ie the WOMEN, instead of something negative. I'm real tired of that, even if I know it's the meta when it comes to popping out. Great analysis btw and I'm really glad I gave it a click.
Awesome video! And now I have to go watch Atomic Blonde. I'd probably recommend not using the "r" word, though, as my understanding is it's generally considered a slur now.
Reminds me of Mulan, animated vs live action. The animated Mulan overcomes her weaknesses with dedication, cleverness, and making friends she can rely on. The live-action Mulan "has a large amount of ki and thus succeeds at everything she ever wants to do ever because girlboss in drag lol."
I never got that complaint, in the live action there is at least a reason why she's stronger then the men. In the animated version she becomes stronger than the men in a single training montage which doesn't make any sense.
@@SailorGreen I'm glad you got it. 👍 Oh yeah sure she outrun every single men at the end of the song with the heavy bags on the stick by being clever 😉
@@gadio16 No she doesn't. She never becomes physically superior in the animated film, she uses her wits to survive pretty much. The whole point was she brought a different perspective that saved the day, not that she was a super awesome uberwoman
Spider-Mans... Iron man... Any Male Hero you'd see gets hurt... Even SUPERMAN was hurt and was killed and he is the strongest Superhero in the cinema history... 😐
i feel like the wicks actually do this to such an extreme that it swings too heavily in the other direction and it starts to become unbelievable that he could ever continue on with how much damage we see him take, but at that point i just turn my brain off and enjoy the action ;)
I think another phenomenal thing about that fight in Atomic Blonde is also the technicality of it. Lorraine knows that she's disadvantaged against those men, and you can see her using the momentum of their attacks to gain some advantage (dodging an incoming first but using it to throw the enemy out of balance). It's very well done.
thats the thing...the female characters in most modern movies are not female at all - they are male characters in a female body: I think every viewer understands intuitively that our female friends and siblings were able to kick our ass until we were about 13 years old at which point we became stronger, taller, heavier - not smarter though i'm afraid...make her a fighter and give her more technical skill, make her a superhero even? that won't change the fact that the men will be heavier and taller..they just bullrush you and then what? a female has to outclass a man by an enormous degree to be able to fight in close combat - that skill has to be attained by working much harder and even then you'd do well to use your skill to keep distance and employ tactical superiority so the weight advantage gets mitigated simply put: if you want a 'kick-ass' female you have to work a lot harder as a writer to make it believable because a woman just isn't a superior fighter by nature and claiming she is runs counter to everything we see in the real world - if you're lazy the character won't be believable with a male character you could just cast a strong burly fellow who got into bar fights early in life and you'd have a believable semi-kick-ass dude, that just doesn't work with female characters because the strength differential is too big
@@johnkirk1772facts. i had to train speed and so much god damned counter punching and defense to continue sparring my homies. its not for the weak. strats all day theres no simple brawlin it out for me
@@johnkirk1772 You're right that you have to work a lot harder to write a female character who can defeat male characters in physical combat. But boy, when you are able to do it right, the payoff is great. I initially wrote off Atomic Blonde as being another cliche girl power movie with unsatisfying fight scenes, but after seeing what was covered in this video, I'm going to really have to give it a watch. Because damn, that fight scene was...brutal...and epic...and just really good. A character like her with that much grit earns so much more respect from me than someone like Carol Danvers or whatever Echo's name is. You CAN write female characters beating male characters. It just takes some more work to make it work.
@@SunshineTheLover And even then, you'd probably need a lot of luck on your side to be able to even hope to keep up with one of the homies in a real fight. That's just the realities of the disparity in physical strength.
And you're biased to then scrutinize female characters a lot more so we can't have stoic or simple women. They have to appeal to y'all, so Captain Marvel gets mocked even tho she acts like a typical male action hero lol
I have been saying this about "woke" characters for a long time, they are poorly written, 2 dimensional, just there to be a diversity representative. There is no story arc.
I've always wondered how utterly *insane* must that Atomic Blonde combat have been to shoot... and the amazing thing is: it's mostly believable. She has two opponents? Tries to separate them. They're both men and can leverage a weight disparity? Tries to prevent them from thinking straight. But combat is a messy thing, so even being the better planner and executor in a fight, she is still fighting more than one heavier opponent and that means taking hits. That fight feels earned, to me.
It's because the director and choreographer are trained fighters and stuntmen so know how to shoot action. They are actually part of the same group that made the John Wick movies not to mention that Charlize worked her butt off training the same way Keanu trained for John Wick. She did the majority of the fight scenes herself which helps make it look more realistic.
@@rosetereziewasilewska371 A world where underground assassins trade around gold and shoot silencers in the middle of a subway station without attracting attention is unbelievable? Gee I really am surprised
My biggest pet peeve with action movies where we see women fight is that they don't take into account the weight disparity. They cast women who are so light and thin for these characters that are supposed to throw around men who are twice or thrice their weight. It's totally unbelievable! I'd like to see fight choreography that shows a woman's skill in fighting using speed and agility, rather than trying to go toe to toe with strength vs a man. That's not realistic. It would be so amazing to watch a woman fight targeting a man's weak points (groin, throat, eyes, ears) rather than whatever shit we see on films today. Finally, if they're going to show a woman manhandling a man, they better make sure she has the build for it. At least cast someone who has the weight and muscles for it. Not someone who is so frail they'd be blown away by a gust of wind.
On the weight disparity, this doesn't involve a female character, but it made me think of the film The Raid. One of the bad guys, Mad Dog, is significantly shorter than most of the other character. But let's just say that his name is pretty descriptive of how he fights. When a larger character throws him, he just rolls with it and keeps attacking. He attacks fast and gets in close, and you can tell that he's better than most of the other characters at grappling, where their size advantage. I also like the speed and agility, but sometimes the way their choreograph women fighting gets absurd, all sorts of complicated gymnastics that would be really risky to do in an actual fight situation. And in the Raid, even though we've got a clear hero, he really has to struggle with multiple attackers and has to use his environment, and in a few situations, actually runs. The fight from atomic blonde here I think is great because it gets messy, and the bad guys don't just go down. Too many movies provide goons that just go down with a few hits. These guys get stabbed or shot and keep at it. It's not all perfect technique and clean hits.
@l6zn3xv9vshe is an amazing actress period. Brie cheeze or Disney Ridley could easily be replaced by a cartboard photo and nobody will notice any diffrence.
Like Matt in the hallway fight in the first season of Daredevil. Leaning on walls just for a moment whenever he can. Because he's just human. Sure he has the "sonar", but no super strenght or stamina. Nobody does it similairly. Even John Wick struggles in lengthy fights. I love to see it.
I know what you meanbut look at this. Sorry, excuse for a character. She has stamina like she is a super Saiyan from the dragon ball show. I've been deployed multiple times and I can tell you from experience a 5 minute fight. If that's providing that you are in shape unlike this thing that makes Yo u wanna throw up every time I see her?
If the character doesn't have to struggle to win, then it's probably not fun to watch them win. If the character is superhumanly powerful then they need to face equally superhuman enemies, capable of hurting them.
The worst part is, she's supposed to be so naturally and flawlessly skilled at fighting & killing bc of the power her comic book version actually has of being able to do anything she sees someone do and retain the information and skills. Mind you, this was an ability the show never uses this. Not even once.
@@AreUReady2007 tactile sign language exists and has been in use since the 1800s, just saying. How do you think Helen Keller (who is deafblind) communicated?Not to speak of Haben Girma, the first deafblind person to graduate from Harvard, who uses a combination of tactile sign language and technology to communicate. Furthermore, deaf people can learn to speak (most of them do), and blind people can sign, as long they do have hands to do that with. Moreover, text to speech programs exist nowadays.
In that Blonde movie, she also shoots that guy and he *KEEPS FIGHTING.* Incredible respect to the filmmakers there. Being shot doesn't always put you down, and a woman taking on a man who is wounded is still really tough for her. She comes out above it by some luck and a lot of perseverance and training. She doesn't throw them around like they she's super powered because she isn't. It makes a more interesting fight, and a more interesting character.
it's great dude gets shot and shock and adrenaline keep him going she actually attacks their joins and weak points fight is tense and then... black widow going through hammer industries.... one hitting guards and leaving them on the ground...
Oh we miss the good old days of well written bad ass chick's. Outside of the women from ANDOR, the chick's in Disney shows are like wafers, absolutely no substance to them.
Endurance. If a female wants to win in a fight against a man, they must be able to outlast them. Endure more pain, and train their muscles for endurance.
The last time I recall them writing a good female character was Tangled. She was more competent than Flynn in a lot of situations but she was charming, likable and feminine while still being a “strong female character” and Flynn still felt like a masculine charming guy despite being incredibly flawed.
Agree, and her weakness being that she still young and naive (although that could be a strength, because no way Flynn gonna befriend the men in the bar lol). While mother Gothel (?) weakness being her overconfident at the final scene, which gave Flynn the opportunity to cut Rapunzel's hair
As a woman with long hair and got called Rapunzel a lot, I hated tangled. It made no sense why she had to cut her hair that short or why it had to change colour either.
@Ironica82 fair enough for the colour - I only watched it once a very long time ago, so probably forgot that plot point. But Rapunzel ending up with short hair is just weird. I could understand if it was still long but at a manageable length but they just decided "nope let's ditch the long hair completely for a character known for her long hair"
Mulan cutting her hair in the animation was powerful because she did it herself. Flynn was the one who cut Rapunzel's hair to save her, it doesn't speak anything of her being a strong character here, she was just there and didn't mind. Any woman woulda kicked the guy's ass for chopping her hair off after being grateful for the save. But this is classic Disney, always trying to empower the female characters wrongly into being men.
The fact they didn't blindfold Echo is what really made me genuinely give up, I tried. You're telling me a kidnapping team is totally fine just showing their face to someone they are planning on releasing? Freaking brilliant writing that.
@@francreeps4509 cause they had no idea how to make her escape such a situation in a cool way. After all, the writers were doing their best to avoid having the characters beauty be destroyed by injuries, dirt or anything.
@@francreeps4509 You don't need to communicate nonstop and you can do other things to cover your identities in the moments yuo do that. It's just a rookie mistake.
It would have been a good character moment. She can't hear. Now she can't see. Maybe that would have given her anxiety? Forcing her to speak or find a solution?
The scene in T2 where Sarah Connor escapes the mental institute is so good. It focuses on showing how smart she is, and how desperate she is to get to John. Not just “she’s a badass that does badass things”.
And that bravado turned to absolute fear the moment T800 stepped into the scene. Her whole demeanor changed once her ultimate fear came back to vision.
And also it’s a continuation of Sarah Connor’s development from the first movie, where she was scared and mousy in the beginning, but more experienced by the end.
can i just say people dont give jessica jones (season 1) enough credit. Shes well writen, troubled, damaged, and feels real despite being superpowered. even season 2 at the start the way people treat her for being superpowered in the real world feels real.
I love Season 2 because it actually justifies heroes being HEROIC. We get her mom who is a disturbed woman - not evil, not cackling, just mentally ill and unstable. And she's TERRIFYING. Because when someone who is mentally unstable can literally rip your spine out through your stomach and you're not sure what she's going to do... that's bad. It drove home the Spiderman thing we always here - great power without great responsibility can turn you into a monster. Meanwhile Jessica just wants a mom who loves her. The start was slow as sin, but man the back half of Season 2 was a banger.
Jessica Jones season 1 was so good. Netflix was loyal to the characters and source material. But I also don’t know if it could get made today under Disney.
Atomic Blonde was directed by David Leitch, who is one of the creators of the John Wick franchise and the JW stunt team worked on it. Leitch was not only a stunt- performer & coordinator, but also a competitive Kickboxer, he knows how it feels when you get punched in the face. He and Chad Stahelski ( the director of the JW movies, also a former stunt guy & martial arts expert, trained by grandmaster Dan Inosanto, Bruce Lee's student) are also huge fans of Asian action cinema and learned how to choreograph fights, from Yuen Woo-ping, while working on the Matrix trilogy. Yuen Woo-Ping is a legendary action director from Hong Kong, who worked on more movies I can count here, incl. Matrix, Kill Bill, Crouching Tiger, tons of Jet Li/ Donnie Yen/ Jackie Chan movies etc. Also, Charlize Theron put in some serious work for that movie, she did the same training like Keanu did for the JW movies and she did most of the fight scenes herself. Theron trained with Heidi Moneymaker ( she´s a veteran stunt woman, that doubles S. Johanson in the MCU) & Daniel Bernhardt ( another veteran stunt guy, who has been in tons of movies/ shows and trained Bob Odenkirk for "Nobody", he also appears in Atomic Blonde as a KGB henchman). According to Leitch, they only doubled her for a couple of scenes, that were deemed too dangerous for her. It´s not rocket science, if you put in the work and have people who know what they´re doing, you get great results. If you let diversity hires, who are absolute hacks, do it... you get garbage like Echo.
I'm glad Atomic Blonde is getting some love and recognition these days, I still remember how excited I left the theater after seeing this movie, I loved it.
You know, the _idea_ of Echo is amazing. This hitwoman who worked for the Kingpin for years killing him in revenge and then making it her mission to take down his whole operation is a great plot - but it needs two things: One, it needs to be made clear that it's an insane thing to do, and two, it needs to be DIFFICULT. I have no problem with her being a great fighter, but it has to be challenging. Show her beating down some mobster to extract information, only to be surprised by his repertoire of goons storming the place, requiring her escape. Show her struggling to exfiltrate from a compound on high alert, as she keeps getting ambushed due to a lack of recon. Show her needing to patch herself up in a secure location. Show her being ambushed at said secure location because she used it too many times. Show her escaping from capture because everyone needs to sleep, but the goons can do that in shifts. Additionally, show her almost self-destructive desire for vengeance that brings her back to the brink of death over and over again, understandable because the Kingpin _murdered her father,_ but eventually it crosses from retribution into obsession. And most importantly, when she has succeeded in her mission, show that it didn't really help her move on at all, and that all she has to show for it are scars and cold apathy.
The complications that you list in your middle paragraph have the potential to be so interesting, and they'd feel completely natural for a story in which somebody embarks on a campaign like Echo's. That paragraph also gave me flashbacks to my days of playing Long War 2. The tactical depth of that game is incredible, and it makes most cinematic action sequences feel so dull and forced by comparison.
Kinda gives the same vibes as Daredevil but in a good way. In Daredevil, you dont see the hero being all-powerful and handling the vigilante job as easy peasy. He's not always able to keep up his strong stoic facade. He cries. He breaks down. But most importantly, he gets back up. Echo, along with tons of other new character in the MCU phase 4 nowadays, just feel like "look at me, im a quirky/serious badass and im the replacement for the heroes you once know and love and theres nothing you can do about it" **cough** riri **cough**
Also she doesn’t hear! Shows how ambushing is something people will use against her over and over again cause they have her info and show how she build tactics against it over the years.
I read a very old BL manga about a similar situation as Echo , “ Banana Boat “ Not in the deaf impaired people. But a similar kingpin protege/ future heir plot with a diversity cast . Main was gay . But you didn’t have it thrown to your face every 2 lines . Not had explicit sex scenes . Plot was closer to John Wick than Echo . Echo trying to get out from Kingpin could had been a very interesting story. But too many Mary Sue and plot armor make one lose interest in rooting for her success.
I've never seen Atomic Blonde, but when you were breaking down the fight scene from that film, I was so engrossed in that that I forgot what the video was even about. Bringing it back to Echo for the comparison was a very, very rude awakening, lol. Excellent video. I need to go watch Atomic Blonde.
Dang, that is so badass. I've never seen Atomic Blonde but even just seeing the sequential clips had me hooked. Beyond the incredible tenacity of her character, that sort of stunt choreography requires HARD work as well as a willingness to still get hurt, as someone inevitably will with such tight fighting. Totally different vibe with Maya. She isn't challenged, she shows no emotion, and because her circumstances were too good for her to get hurt, there's no fear or suspense around whether or not she'll make it out. Absolute props to Charlize and I love her even more now!
Another thing i really liked about that movie was how super consistent the sountrack is, how its used and how relevant it is. I hate almost all german music, but they obviously put so much care into even that, and i do like those.
The more I learn about the amount of her own stunts/ fighting/ driving she does, the intense training she does for all her roles and how many times she is injured on set and keeps going, she has mad props from me, This is a woman who nearly broke her neck filming Aeon Flux back when she was in her 20s and was in hospital paralyzed for a week, finished the movie and continues to do her own stunts at almost 50, she even dislocated her shoulder doing the fights in Old Guard and in a recent interview she said she still has no desire to stop doing her own stunts/fights as long as she is able.
Kate Bishop is one of the few recent Marvel female heroes I like. She did sports and learned skills all her life because she admired Hawkeye, but quickly learns she’s in way over her head. It’s only through Hawkeye mentoring her that she becomes better throughout the show and in the end takes up the mantle
Yes, and in episode one, she messes up and is saved by Hawkeye In the second episode, she tries to save him, screws up and gets caught as well. This is why the Critical Drinker didn't review Hawkeye, he couldn't pull his 'wah a female lead" crap on it.
Yeah, Kate Bishop is much better written than a lot of the new mcu ladies, but her taking up the mantel and also almost replacing Black Widow as Hawkeye's close friend happened waaaaaaaay too fast. It should have taken two seasons at least.
Your thumbnail worried me. I came half expecting a rag on Atomic Blonde, and I must say I am exceedingly happy not only with the acknowledgment of the Brilliance of the film, but the blow by blow analysis of the care taken to deliver such a fantastic and believable female badass. You not only called up Atomic Blonde, but a plethora of other fantastic examples of female heroines that worked! Another of my favorites is The Long Kiss Goodnight, a very strongly written, directed and acted film that also shows the toll such action takes on a human being, let alone a woman having to constantly punch up just to to stand a chance. Thank you for a great video. You've earned this sub.
So, you have a character with Deafness, and a missing limb. You think the first thing you would do is think up situations that use those premises so that you can insert them into the story. Missing information because it is said in a crowded room (hearing aid users struggle to understand people in crowds). Perhaps dropping a flash-bang in a room, and showing everyone else affected by the sound except her. Kicking someone and having the leg fly off. Having someone unaware of her leg shoot her in it, or hit it with a bar. etc etc
The problem (in my opinion, which coincidently is from a disabled person xD) isn't even their lack of good ideas when it comes to this topic, its their incredibly restrictive world view. I believe that, in the minds of at least some directors/movie makers nowadays, its actually important to NOT show any of the specific situations that would only work with specific disabilities, because that would imply that there IS a difference between a disabled character and and a character who is not. Which is something that apparently is no longer something that is "safe" to acknowledge. Its really strange to me that people want to push the idea that there isn't any difference between people with different characteristics (race,sex, disability/lack thereof, age...), yet at the same time, the whole idea that there are groups that need special protection or rights heavily implies that there IS a difference. Or, to put it into one single sentence: If disabled people are just as capable as non-disabled people, then why cant we show them failing, loosing, and being evil just as much?
One thing I liked about matt fractions hawkeye run is that it showed how hawkeyes deafness affected his everyday interactions as well as his fighting. His deafness wasn’t just there for no reason but visibly impacted the story. Echo could’ve taken inspiration from that. I want to see how being deaf results in challenges for her and how that affects her character.
@@random.3665exactly it makes no sense I saw a story the other day where a director had a character that was in a device that was similar to a wheelchair (and I looked into it it’s not even remotely similar) and since that character is a villain they decided to portray him as walking instead😂 because I guess wheelchair users can’t be villains???? It was the craziest take I’d seen in awhile
One of the major reasons why older films' main characters are so well received is because the are flawed and have weaknesses. They're interesting and even relatable. Today's tv and movie "heroes" are just dull, unstoppable machines with no emotion.
I dislike people using examples from 30-40 years ago of strong female characters. There's plenty of modern ones to draw the comparison to instead. Mizu and Akemi from Blue Eye Samurai, Katara from Avatar, any woman from Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, Furiosa from Mad Max and Jessica Jones just from the top of my head. Using old example like Ripley or Sarah Connor just fuels the idea that there are *no* well written strong women in modern media which is just wrong. The badly written ones just get much more attention from idiots online.
@@tortoiseoflegends4466 You've touched on something that's part of the problem: these examples of well-written women _have_ been around for 30-40 years, but the current iteration of "stunning and brave" likes to pretend that they never existed prior to _this_ moment (I'm looking at you, "first female action hero" Jennifer Lawrence).
@@tortoiseoflegends4466 The badly written ones get much more attention from idiots - Feminists, Disney, and allies - as those are their ideal women. These horrible women are the reason so many "idiots online" critique them. Using "old" yet widely known examples allows his point to reach a wider general audience; using "modern" examples that are younger than a pregnancy, ie Blue Eye - well sh*t son, no one knows what you're talking about.
Xena, The Warrior Princess, and Gabrielle are some of the great characters. Xena won and lost, and her story arc makes sense. Even the way men within her story treated her, to me, was as an equal warrior, whether she was good or bad. It was all about her capabilities as a warlord. She was not a survivor of sexual assault; she was bad, and she excelled at it until she finally came to her senses and saw the consequences of her actions. She decided that she needed to do good now, every day, as much as she could
I don’t recall who , but they once asked a famous author how he wrote such strong and compelling female characters . He said “ I don’t write female characters , I write good characters some of which happen to be female “. Most guys especially sci fi and comic nerds love strong kick ass females, look at the sales of those products . What we don’t like is bad writing , one dimensional Mary sues who are not interesting or compelling as characters.
For example the role Sigourrney Weaver had in Alien was initially written to be played by a man. I don't remember why but we ended up for the god with Ellen Ripley
To me it looks like the Expanse really took that to heart, pretty much all their characters, including the women characters were just well written believeable people. And when I see believeable obviously I mean in the world of the Expanse, it's still Scifi ofcourse.
Neil Gaiman, writer of the Sandman comics said that. And I do agree with him to a certain extent. You can get some great characters by just treating them all the same. However, I do believe you can add layers and depth to a character by writing from particular perspectives. For instance, we all seem to agree that a woman’s physical strength disadvantage can make her a more interesting fighter character. What Neil described is basically step one after “write stereotypes of women as background characters.” Step two would be “how does this character’s background as female, black, blind, gay, etc. impact how they experience and react to this situation?”
JJ Abrams “I don’t try and write strong female characters or strong male characters, I just try and write, hopefully, strong characters and sometimes they happen to be female”
I don't even mind unrealistic fight scenes in action movies, that's expected but these no flaw-perfect-cant do anything wrong characters are so annoying that i can't fathom what these writers are thinking.
The writer and director might be amateur from wattpad. They didn't understand anything and Just told to direct because they are activist. Go watch their interview, they keep talking giving opportunity to mute and deaf people but they never tall about the writing and directing
Those "writers " are usually just incompetent political activists aligned with the company agenda, who use multimillion dollars budget to create their own power fantasies.
There’s an entire genre of story with characters who don’t do any wrong, those types of protagonists we call “aspirational heroes”. A lot of people find them boring, but I enjoy them. “What would Clark do,” and , “What would Steve do,” are questions I use to ground myself morally because they’re literally pinnacles of virtues that I strive to uphold. They’re both characters who would put themselves on the line to save others even without powers.
I had the luck to see an advanced screening for Atomic Blonde and had a lot of fun but was said to see people not talk about it more. Nice to see it brought up after so long
I remember when Steve Rogers was chosen for the Supersoldier program, it wasn't because he was your archetypical soldier who followed orders without question and was already a bulldozer in the battlefield, it was because he was an intelligent, resourceful man with a well-attuned moral compass, which was what he would need to wield such power. I wish we could see this for female characters. Instead all we got was "I was already awesome but now with more fireworks".
@@LadyVenVen He could solve the problem of the flag on the pole while his companions struggled, he's also quite the strategist in the battlefield and for that you need to have brains. That he can be sometimes a bit naïve doesn't mean he's stupid. The fandon flanderized him quite a bit.
@@LadyVenVenOh i don’t know.. Maybe because he is from the world war 2 era and suddenly wakes up in the modern world? Of course he isn’t bright when he has to adapt to an era he doesn’t belong in with futuristic shit.
In Daredevil throughout the whole show, he gets tossed around and beat up. Matt fights with some brilliant strategy (shutting the lights out, using the surroundings and his sling). He meets his match countless times (the ninjas who move without sound, kingpin who just shrugs everything off with brute strength, Pointdexter/Bulleye who fights from range) and we see him overcome all this. The Daredevil team deserved much more 😭 They were the best
Wow so surprised this channel only has 43K subs! What a well-put and thought-provoking video! I agree and felt a lot of what you were saying but I couldn't spell it out in my mind until watching your video.
For me I enjoy seeing a woman physically be outmatched in an fight since it’s a chance to show the audience the woman’s skill with weapons, grappling, striking or even how resourceful she can be by quickly improvising and using the environment as an advantage. A great example of this is the original Mulan animation where despite being in a male army she doesn’t directly fight anyone but instead outwits them and uses her intelligence to be an asset. Thats how to make a female fighter interesting
Terminator was this way. absolute clinic on how to have badass women characters Sarah connor starts out mousey and frail and terrified, neurotically grasping to normalcy and gradually becomes tough by almost dying repeatedly.... she gets kidnapped by an insane badass killer maniac who saves her life, and what does she do...fall instantly in love of course. trauma bond 100% even still she gets institutionalized, and they show her working out in her cell, trying to hide her emotions and failing...linda hamilton herself got STACKED. she barely looks feminine anymore, you can totally believe she is dangerous....and what happens? she still gets whooped by fat bob the guard until she takes his nightstick, then uses a syringe and a hostage instead of fighting multiple guards. that scene of her trotting down the hallway with a nightstick, looking scary dangerous and yet vulnerable and scared...is a masterwork of visual storytelling and craft by the third she is surviving because she is calm and driven, and has made friends...not because she beats dudes in fistfights. she knows who she is, what she cannot do and doesnt give a damn if the whole world thinks shes crazy.
Tho when she go hand to hand with a man and get punched in the face she would’ve gotten knocked out she took lots of clean hit from the bad guys. Realistically she would gotten killed in real life same with a man💀.
Again brilliantly done! The scene was also an example of how the creators don’t know deaf people. I have a few deaf friends and they are the noisiest people that I know. It makes sense. Deaf people do not do stealth very well. That would be like expecting fashion sense from a blind person.
It's far worse than that. To get the full 'deaf representation' deaf writers were also included. That unawareness of how loud they are and how important sound was went straight from the writing table to the finished product.
Excuse me! Most deaf people are noisy but not strong female characters. They are perfect. She can sense how noisy she is by the vibrations in the air or whatever. You need to check yourself. 😂
No this review isn't flawless its fundamentally wrong comparing a movie aiming for realism to a comic book movie is stupid not all art has to conform to the same standards
there is a korean series in netflix called "My Name" that is very similar to Echo. A protagonist that in order to get revenge turns into a dark path that involves a new sort of father like figure that encourages her quest for vengance but soon her finds a chance of letting that past behind her and finally live a honorable normal life. The thing is, unlike Echo, the protagonist actually suffers through a lot and the people around her also suffer. Her relationships are tested and there are real consequences. Trust is broken and mistakes are made that threaten to eat the protagonist alive and, even if she succeeds at the end, there are things that cannot be undone. Also, the protagonist, just like echo, becomes a fighter that, unlike Maya actually struggles and gets her ass kicked. And in the fight scenes you can really belive that she can defeat the people she defeats and you also see her training and gaining experience.
Yeah, and in My name in one of the first series female lead beat up bunch of boxers, who was trained for years, when she was trained for couple of months, with bare hands, and she took the first place in their fight. It was very stupid scene
The fights of the atomic blonde, really hurts by seeing it. There is always the stake, she would not make it. Really well done! The echo-"fights" are just a snore-feast.
on one hand i agree, on the other hand it annoys me how female characters will ALWAYS be under more scrutiny and receive more criticism than their male counterparts ever will. disney doesn’t have many good male characters anymore either, and the gary stu/male power fantasy has been a cornerstone of action movies since the beginning. i hate that these writers and directors do these female characters such a massive disservice, not only because it sucks from a narrative and entertainment perspective, but it also encourages rabid anger from fans that inevitably leads to misogynistic rhetoric and even backlash against the innocent actors.
I always point to Atomic Blonde when I discuss female action in movies with people. What makes it more believable is her reliance on weapons, Judo, elbows, and teeps. Her fight style matches her size. Also, she takes a lot of damage. Obviously it still isn't realistic, but they at least make the attempt to seem plausible.
I don't think It matters if they struggle or not, fights scenes can be more things than realistic, like Jackie chan movies the only struggle or tension comes before he gets a hold of a chair, or a table, or a couch, or stairs, or a fridge then they become comedic or more about the stuntwork, and there's more ways to write fight scenes like a western duel, most of the duels are written by revealing information building tension until it goes off and the only action is the climax, what It should matter is the character work that go behind it, because it's easy to come up with whatever justification for an outcome in a fight, It is more difficult for it to actually be relevant and matter to the characters and the story
Wait, how was she able to do that stealth sequence so well? She's Deaf, right? I know that when one of your senses goes out, your other senses are enhanced but being able to hear yourself and your surroundings is a big part of stealth. They made a whole movie about it.
Not to mention that she shot out the lights... Y'know, the thing providing you with the ability to see. The thing others might overcome by relying on their hearing, something she can't do. Seriously, what the heck???
They didn't turn them not into women-shaped men but into killbots. Even the Superman who is overpowered by definition has problems, personal struggles, private life, sentiments and fears and can fail. But this "strong female characters" are just "enter the room, clear the room (looking like Tyson fighting vs kindergartners), go to next room, maybe say meaningless stuff while going to the next room".
I haven't seen Atomic Blonde, but I'd like to throw in my two cents and bring up another great movie that highlights character strengths and weaknesses and how you can have a female hero that still has her flaws. In Dredd 2012, Judge Dredd is charged with showing a new Judge, Anderson, the ropes. She's scored low on most of her entry tests, but she's a powerful telepath and is a great asset to the Judges. So Dredd takes her out and it's his say whether she passes or fails. As the movie progresses, we see Anderson is competent, but she's insecure and unsure of how to handle the dark and gritty aspects of the job. But there is a scene where they have to interrogate a hostage, and that's when we get a first glimpse of her potential. The hostage, a gangster they captured after an ambush, doesn't respond to Dredd's physical abuse and yelling. So Anderson gets in his head and mentally tortures him and gets what they need in only a few seconds. Then there's a scene where Dredd and Anderson are separated and there's a team of corrupt Judges trying to kill them. One of them corners Anderson and pretends to be a friend, but Anderson quickly catches the lie and doesn't hesitate to shoot them in the head. Then she comes in and actually saves Dredd's life after he's injured and runs out of ammo. By the end of the movie it's obvious how much Anderson has grown through her experience with Dredd. She respects her teacher, she knows what Judges have to do to maintain order, and she's confident in her abilities as a psychic and as a lawwoman. Anyone can relate to a person who struggles and overcomes their flaws and learns how to use their strengths. That's what make people love fictional characters. No one can relate to a character who is super badass and excels at everything and always has to have the spotlight on how awesome they are.
Another great part about dredd is there are multiple scenes where dredd asks her for her perspective on the situation then asks her what they should do and why. He then tells her why she is wrong and why and she learns from that. I love dredd partially because karl urban is a GOAT.
Such a great film. I think Anderson's growth as a character is one of the main reasons I like it so much, aside from Urban chewing up scenery as Dredd.
> "ANNA" is another good female hitman fighter movie. The female playing the lead is (in real life) a 110 lb. model which is kinda hot. But she shows in the movie that since she is much smaller than the henchmen she fights, is often at a disadvantage, and is resourceful in using her other tactics to beat them.
I love how you compare poorly written works like "Echo" to more well-thought-out media such as "Atomic Blonde." It’s a great way to highlight the flaws and pinpoint where they fall short in comparison to other pieces of media that actually know what they’re doing.
Atomic Blonde if just much better choreographed, shot and performed. It's still as bad otherwise. How do you make a small but well trained woman take out a mob of large men? Well you just make the men do everything dumb and wrong and you make the heroine unbreakable.
@@brendo7363 The fact you think a guy could have survived that either is funny. That's called being a movie. Seriously IRL if you put the best spec ops soldier that ever lived against that many people, odds are they don't make it
Yeah irl. One shot is all it takes. There is only so much blood that can pour out before dying but in movies. No matter the sex. The main character always has an endless supply of blood flowing haha. It doesn't take much to read about that. But nowadays movies gotta be super duper koull and girl bossy. Since 2022, movies AND people have gone soft.
Atomic Blonde is an amazing movie ... I was wondering why I don't see more people talking about it. It's one of the few if not the only movie with a female lead where I see proportional strength to her size, where the punches land with the necessary resistance. I'm no film maker so I dunno if this make sense, but the movie understands physics, and that's something I've always wished for on my female leads. And of course the plot is awesome. I didn't know it was by one of the creators of John Wick until recently, but it makes sense. A simple plot, perfectly executed.
@@Ava-nf2qq Well, the character in Atomic Blonde is not a superhero. Also, the issue I have is not about the characters bu about the direction and the actors. Many actresses don't have the musculature to make any stunt look realistic (they don't need to be jacked. Charlize does a great job in AB and she's fairly thin). Ps: I also hate it when male actors can't make stunts look realistic
@@Ava-nf2qq if you have to use superheroes as a comparison to explain why girlboss action heroes are constantly perfect in every fight, maybe you should stop and reconsider if it's worth defending.
I liked the movie but thought the first half was too slow, but the action that we got in the 2nd half was soo good. Story was easily the weakest point, that twist was kinda ridiculous lol.
@@Ava-nf2qqIt’s obvious you didn’t watch the video at all considering even OP said numerous times that Lorraine is a normal human and is realistic when it comes to her battles and vulnerability. These are the characters people want and don’t have a problem with. Not that hard to understand.
In Atomic Blonde, Theron's character swings wider to try and deliver a heavier hit which makes sense cause of her smaller body frame. The goons don't even faze that much with 1 strike from and she has to either strike multiple times for them to get hurt or fight dirty and hit points that would do a lot of damage like the throat. She even uses throws that use the enemies' own momentum against them. It's just way more believable than a smaller fighter just casually throwing another fighter twice their size. Also if you want a good movie about a deaf protagonist in a fight for their life situation, I recommend Hush. It really showcased how disadvantageous it would be if you were deaf in a fight for your life scenario and when the protag made mistakes, there were brutal consequences for those mistakes. It's not a perfect movie but it's better than Echo imo.
Another problem I personally had with Echo was that they had whole scenes where everyone would speak using only sign language and they wouldn’t bother to give us subtitles. So there are occasionally huge swaths of episodes where I had no idea what was going on. This was especially bad in the woodpecker flashback. I mean, I don’t know why Maya shot the bird and then took it to her mother, nothing, all because they didn’t bother making it accessible for those of us that don’t know that language. Very weird.
@@alansargent9158 at the time, I tried that on multiple (3) devices but to no avail. It still left those parts untranslated. At this point, I could really care less though, so this is a problem for technicians.
As much as I love these feminine-fighters, we also need compelling-characters who don't rely solely on violence. Elle Woods from Legally Blonde. She's a brilliant lawyer, not a fighter. Daria Morgendorffer, who is a smart-person in a world that rewards dumbness. Marta Cabrera from Knives Out, the good and honest nurse.
For any viewer Its to pull in male viewers. A good action scene is always a good idea. Unless you make her significantly funny or stand out, an Elle woods in the MCU will never make it.
the expanse has a glut of brilliant smart tough women. chrisjen, carmina, Anna just to name a few. Carmina can fight but she chooses her battles, Chrisjen is the ultimate politician who ends up making change through words rather than going out and beating someone up. Anna is the same, she got the leader of the UN elected just from a single well written speech then during the ring crisis goes on live and convinces whole ship loads of terrified people to make the right choice. think the only violent thing you see her do is smash someone on the back to stop them killing another person. The expanse is a great example of well written female characters, hell the main male character actually is kinda eclipsed by all the others on the ship,who had fantastic back stories well written story and some of the best line. he isn't that man, I am. shivers. bar the pilot who turned out to be a scumbag in real life.
Atomic Blonde is criminally underrated. People usually throw that phrase around but in this case, it really flew under the radar when it should have exploded the way the first John Wick did. From the gritty, realistic choreography to the kickass 80s soundtrack it was a perfect film with a perfect protagonist. To this day I'm bitter about the fact that there's no talk of a sequel. Wtf.
Honestly, I hate that the movie didn't get all the love it deserved, but that ensured it went down as a standalone legend, no chances of a sequel ruining it
Honestly, they did native americans dirty by making such a bad movie. Like, native americans could have had a movie that they could point to as being a great product of their culture, but instead, they just have a movie that no one liked as a movie itself. A native american version of Daredevil could've been so sick, and even the sequence at 0:32 was sick but a movie is more than just its action scenes.
I will never get tired of hearing you say in each of your videos: "But why is it well written? & "But why is it terribly written?" They're officially your iconic quotes, man.
As The Critical Drinker pointed out, one reason why modern movies are bad is: they are written by children. (Well, by people who have the mentality and writing skills of the average child.) Not to insult children, but patience, perspective and good judgment are qualities associated with maturity, and they are important ingredients for writing realistic stories.
That and hopefully you’ve seen Mad Max if not then do so please. Charlize Theron’s range in portraying strong, well-written women is greatly admirable.
oh yes.... i toldmy dad how kickass it was and he doubted it, later he walked out of his office space and toldme that was the baddest woman to have ever kicked ass since lucy lawless as xena
17:35 lets compare that to John Wick, who’s stealth in the Red Circle is broken by him being spotted and failing to take out the spotter quickly and quitely, ultimately breaking through a window.
I totally agree, and it applies also to men protagonists, i personnaly always prefered a protagonist with flaws/weaknesses to overcome rather than hacking and slashing through hords of baddies like butter.
Agreed, they just make for more interesting characters to watch, as well as, root for. It shows they're just as human as all of us; which it seems a lot of writers in Hollywood forget to do, show the character's humanity.
Except it’s believable for a lot of really strong men to hack and slash like Prime Arnold for example. In Disney, you have 130lb women that can throw 200lb men
@@Anon-qp3ktSo then get muscular women to play roles. Beauty standards are women have to be built like some twigs who've never picked up or even looked at a dumbbell in their lives yet can pick up an entire truck. It's the male gaze bleeding into strong women when in reality you're just giving sexism exactly what it wants
I feel like stating it that way misses the point. They can't write men any better either, i feel. It's what happens if you are too focused on the myriad things that you DON'T want to write to avoid criticism (all sorts off, this isn't a "but woke culture" complaint particularly). It's characters by committee, a mishmash of compromise avoiding the consequences of writing a proper person.
You know, this makes a lot of sense to why the writers strike wanted quotas on how many writers would be in the room per TV show/movie. They wanted like 20 writers! That's exactly what you said, a committee, and they're writing these characters like that. Now we know why they're so...boring and inoffensive.
@@KaosKrusher I disagree with 1). Just because we are entirely used to it with male characters while the other is now an issue of "writing female characters different than before" doesn't mean it "shows" more. And re 2) strong female characters, not strong writing of female characters. The "strong females" are now as badly written as the strong men. For the same reason. My point is making that distinction clouds the underlying problem. Which is half in the expectation, and half what it means to write "for the mass market".
This highlights a issue in the mcu that was present even before Phase 4; the fight choreography especially with the villain's security guards/goons/minions. The fight choreographers make most or all of them stupid that there are so many instances in the MCU where goons just run at the main character just to be taken down in one or two hits. Or sometimes they have a gun but they either heavily delay the firing or and don't shoot at all. Or some of them just stand there stunned like they're in a video game. That's probably why one on one fights tend to be better because they have more care put into them
It's like... Netflix Daredevil series (Long single-take fight scenes, clearly illuminated) versus Iron Fist (Five jump cuts to throw one punch, everything's in the dark and close up, you have no idea what's going on). At this point I'm fairly sure an AI image generate and ChatGPT could squeeze out a narrated slideshow of a new Marvel series and it would be better than what we're seeing here.
Fight scenes were better and more thought out in early MCU. The elevator scene in captain America is still one of the best fight scenes in the MCU. The goons nearly got cap beat.
To be fair that original daredevil hallway fight had badguys just shooting around and over matt head. They tried it make it look like recoil and it just looks bad.
Thats a flaw of all action that isn't intended to be ultra realistic though. The only thing that has really fooled me was Wick 1, which is ultra grounded ultra serious
@@yeayohaha -- I loved that scene when I watched it the first time, but (as Ryan George points out in the Pitch Meeting), shouldn't the Hydra agents have had more lethal weapons with them, given that it was a coordinated plan to kill a super-soldier?
"How can you have stakes if you know they will never fail. There is nothing to be gained from a perfect character." Although I've rewrote part of one of the last things you've said in this, I think that it has a great lesson for any storyteller. I think just hearing it will be something to help me in my own writing. Though I had an understanding of it before, I think your words solidified it better.
You know… watching Charlize Theron’s fight scene in Atomic Blonde with their attention to detail on showing her quick wit, bruised and battered body, and how much fighting is actually taking a toll on her, reminds me of another action movie: The Long Kiss Goodnight with Geena Davis and Samuel L. Jackson. Geena Davis’s character was also a well trained spy but she wasn’t unreasonably strong. In multiple fight scenes, she appeared to be just two steps away from actually dying despite coming out on top. There is even a scene after a particularly brutal fight where she just… stops and drops. Despite knowing she’s supposed to be the protagonist… there is a moment where you think she’s going to die and when she does get up… she doesn’t suddenly seem better despite the obvious beating she took; she limps, can’t see out of one eye, barely can move her hands and fingers. The lead female protagonists of these movies are exactly what audiences want to see, particularly women. We don’t want to see them not struggle despite the odds that are stacked against them, we don’t want to see them remain picture perfect no matter how long you know a fight took, and even when they are well trained fighters, it is nice when they are still portrayed as human beings who can be hurt! Do they really believe audiences is going to buy a young woman who looks barely out of her late teens who’s supposedly blind and deaf (glad to know that they refused to actually show how she worked around those disabilities) beat down grown men twice her age without really getting a beat down? Come on Hollywood… you used to actually care about how characters were written. Sure, sometimes you gave us really bad characters… but we’ve had some memorable ones too. Is it that hard to actually write women?
Daredevil Choreography was actually GOAT, because you can feel the impact of hits both from Matt and the goons. Everyone has an actual stamina bar where they become slower and more tired the longer a fight goes on. Atomic Blonde was this but ten fold. Beautiful is what its fight choreography can be called.
Never seen the movie, but from this scene alone I fucking love atomic blonde gunning for the joints to make the fight easier for her and to even out the playing field. Also, her and her opponents also taking damage is fucking impressive to see because you can see the desperation and tenacity the two sides have and actually makes you worry for the mc
Also at 7:10 you can see that when a grown man gets shot in the eye he dies. This is known as common sense, echo writers could learn a thing or two from that.
Not as uncommon as you think. There are stories of people getting shot in the head and calling 9-11. One guy got shot in between the eyes and posted a selfie. Another guy got shot in the head with an ak47 and posted it on Facebook live.
This happened in the comics and King Pin survived and was blinded for a bit while recover. Not defending anybody, but that's just what happened in the source material they're adapting. It's still a comic book show after all.
Kate Bishop was good in Hawkeye I think, pretty on point for her comic iteration. Definitely with her I liked that despite a lot of Kate’s training she still made a lot of mistakes. And that some of those mistakes even came from the fact that shes a rich kid. Even in the final fight with Kingpin she was losing and getting her ass kicked because Kingpin is huge and only survived by setting off all her arrows. Oh! And setting off the arrows with the move we watch her learn from Clint earlier too. And I liked that she had cuts and bruises and obvious pains to deal with.
For every woman that these movies and shows get wrong there's at least one they get right. Doesn't stop clout farming weirdos from framing countless videos as if Disney can't write great female characters. And for all of the noise a lot of people don't realize everything isn't written specifically for them
That you do these side-by-side comparisons are what makes your videos so great - you don't simply show/tell us what was wrong, but also how someone else did it right, thus not only making it easier for folks to understand, but also more difficult for them to defend the bad version - keep up the great work!
3:49 You earned my thumbs-up when I spotted the first glimpse of THAT one fight scene in Atomic Blonde, knowing you would praise it. It's the best fight scene I've ever watched in television! It's gritty, it looks painful, people are grunting and get exhausted and discoordinated from their wounds and pounding skulls. It's legitimately Perfection. It's also a little unfair to pick that particular scene because everything else WILL look lackluster in comparison lol Anyways, enjoy my thumbs-up :)
Great comparison. Another good example is from the movie "Peppermint", with Jennifer Garner. In that movie she trained in MMA, weapons and tactics, the whole shebang, in order to avenge the murder of her family... The movie is well grounded when it came down to having her fight 1 on 1 against a guy, pretty solid in that department. Even with her knowledge, she struggled to fight of just one guy, so she had rely on cunning instead, to compensate. Too bad that movie flew under the radar.
Jennifer Garner also had 5 seasons in Alias as a spy so knows her way around an action scene. Speaking of Alias, that's another great example of a well written female led character who relies on her training, her allies, and her intelligence to overcome her opponents, and a lot of the time she loses.
@@ab-gail Oh, I searched that and yeah, apparently they're talking about making a second one due to the fact that the movie is getting a lot of views on Netflix all of a sudden. Nice!
Thank god people are talking about Atomic Blonde. I saw that movie day one and it's in my top 10 favorites. THAT'S how you do a female lead action film. Love Charlize, did her own stunts, too.
I met the main henchmen/stuntman from Atomic Blonde because he’s a customer at my cafe, and he talks so highly of Charlize Theron and that fight specifically ❤
That's the kind of quality fight choreography 80 million bucks buys you these days... Inflation... Anywho, I've actually seen worse! There was some kind of very cheaply made B grade horror movie I watched decades ago where the monsters were very visibly made out of papier-mache, and where one of the monsters just died and fell to the ground mid assault, just as it was lunging towards the protagonist. I paused it on my VCR and stepped through it frame by frame to see what hit it, and there was nothing. Not even a leather jacket slap. It just died. In defense of that movie it can't have cost more than 80 bucks to make.
It has been one of the stranger things in my experience of media watching opinion on Atomic Blonde transform over time. When it came out, it was shredded for being unrealistic and ridiculous. But now, in the era of DIsney's perpetually unending bullshit, suddenly Atomic Blonde no longer looks bad, it looks like a paragon of the material it was presenting. What the fuck is happening to this world
woke politics and writers who just don't care for what they are writing for. Compare this to one piece or the expanse and its start just how bad modern writers are.
This is because Atomic Blonde was compared to all the other action movies that came along during its time and where most, if not all, action movies had male leads in them. Now that we have more action movies with women leads in them thanks to Disney, it's (Atomic Blonde) being compared to them now. In this regard, we can thank Disney for making such low standards in women action movies that action movies like Atomic Blonde now shine.
It's always happened. People change their mind. Everyone spat on the Prequels for Star Wars, and now that they've seen the sequels, they think that the Prequels aren't so bad after all 😅😂 also, those too young to voice their opinion then are doing it now
@@gregorturner9421 Bullshit, you weirdos just celebrate anything that's old enough to not be current. Then you turn around and tell everyone how great things no one liked at the time are. The same thing is happening in Star Wars. You're never going to convince anyone who didn't get a fucking lobotomy that the prequels were good.
The large henchwoman's inclusion is so transparent as a mechanic to allow Maya's escape, and yet it STILL doesn't add up. She sees Maya's detached foot and appears confused/disgusted..? So she then decides to... give it back to Maya, instead of I don't know, throwing it away if she finds it so pathetic, or leaving it right there on the rink, or even destroying it in front of Maya. But no... they characterize her as being ableist just to add to her reprehensibility as a kidnapper (okay..), but then they don't even follow through with that. She's so dumb she takes an action that outright contradicts essentially the only thing we know about her perspective; she aids the person she's belittling. And that's all paired with the other two nappers deciding to lock the notorious hitwoman in a tool shed. And not shooting her in the head as she approaches them threateningly.
The Atomic Blonde stairway fight is one of my favorite cinematic fight scenes of all time. Second only to the Shu Lien vs Jen Yu fight in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. It's cinematography, adherence to realism, acting and pacing are all top-notch. It's visceral in the same way that the fights in the original Bourne Identity were. Easily one of Charlize Theron's best (and most underappreciated) physical roles aside from Fury Road. And the choice to make it a "one-take" was very smart. It reminds me a great deal of Tony Jaa's fight on the pagoda stairs in The Protector...only going down instead of up.
I also like the fact that if that debris had not been on the floor, from which she picked up a nail or something, she probably would have succumbed to suffocation from having her neck squeezed. Despite all her skill and effort, luck also played a hand.
I was really suprised seeing the scene from Daredevil in the beggining and bursted out in laughter after I saw the Echo fight, I would love to see you talk about it some more
I didn't watch the show, but I have watched the entire scene when Echo fights DD in her show. It is sooo bad. Like awkward, bad. I feel bad for Charlie Cox having to be in this poor excuse of a show.
There’s also a conversation about the decline of stunt and fight choreography. Atomic Blonde was directed by a professional stuntman. I’d be curious about your thoughts on ‘Fall Guy’ which is the latest film directed by him and hear what you thought of the fights :)
I like that Atomic Blonde shows that hitmen who likely have a higher pain tolerance, who know they're bleeding out, might not just go down right away. After that gut shot and those stab wounds, each man knew he was going to die. And while now drastically weakened, this was now evidently personal enough that they decided she was going down with them if they could help it. Netflix's Daredevil has a similar philosophy, even with less severe injuries. Often in Daredevil, even after beating the living hell out of his opponents, they get back up. They don't just go to sleep upon being lightly tapped on the head. While usually visibly weakened from their injuries, criminal henchmen in Daredevil demonstrate a huge issue with fighting multiple opponents. Often you're so preoccupied with just not getting hit that it can be hard to deal decisive blows. And even if you stun someone or knock them over, if you have to spend the next 10-20 seconds fighting the rest of their gang instead of knocking them out, guess what, that henchman is standing back up and coming back to hit you again. Also, bigger opponents won't just let you knock them over by lightly nudging them with your shoulder, or take slow swipes out you. In fights, bigger opponents know their bulk is an asset and they use it often by grappling you, which if you are smaller and weaker is extremely difficult to break out of and if you're fighting multiple opponents, means they can now attack you unopposed. Season 1 of Daredevil does the best job of this imo, because it makes it clear that Matt is getting seriously hurt in most of his big fights, even if he wins. That's why upon realising Kingpin has a tailor who can use a material to deflects a knife slash with ease, Daredevil goes to the guy hoping to get a full outfit made from the stuff. Until then, his vigilante costume was from random stuff he bought on eBay. I'm not just saying that because it was tacky, Daredevil literally tells someone he got most of his first Season 1 outfit from eBay. He's not one of those common comic millionaire vigilantes who can have a custom made flexible Kevlar things they always supposedly wear. He instead gets lucky and realises a millionaire he's investigating DOES have access to that sort of equipment and takes advantage.
Also they show daredevil's disability being a double edged sword. He conveniently fights in the cover of night were he would have the advantage. But smart apponents like the punisher and bullseye take advantage of his weakness. In echo the hearing disability and amputated leg is treated as normal.
In the comics she has a great explanation about why she is a badass fighter. To compensate for the loss of hearing she has amazing vision and can memorize anything she sees. She has spent her life memorizing the moves of the most amazing fighters in history. Can't believe they turned that into some magic power at the end, instead of it being the reason she is a badass.
I think what many (for eg. Disney) don't seem to understand when it comes to writing/directing a fight scene that it not only should be cool to look at but also have ALL the involved characters make smart decisions in the fight, sure there can be a bad choice made but it has the consequence of getting hurt or even killed
Disney do understand what it takes to make great characters, they've been doing it for decades, but recently they've lost their way, you have to wonder what changed?
Look at the box office gross numbers. Disney is in 22nd place with its highest grossing movie, Soul, bringing in just $17,467 yesterday. Disney had huge clout that no actor would dare speak against last year. It was Harvey Mousestein's casting couch or nothing. That glory is gone.
A lot of directors have complained about super hero fatigue and the death of the art of cinema, actors don’t really complain about it though because these films pay well, and unlike directors, they usually can’t create their own multi million dollar film
@@phabiorules A good superhero movie will still draw an audience. The difference now is that you can't just expect people to turn up for bad superhero movies.
@@roarbertbearatheon8565 you stay silent and the whole ship is gonna go down and your career with it. But sure, I guess it’s better to die on your knees than die standing.
man, 25min flew by and I hope you take it as a compliment that it is. Compelling arguments that are hard to refute but the scene to scene comparison that you did- describing how good characters are written respecting their limitations but shown to smartly adapt to overcome the same was what makes this a mindful full-bodied critique. I mean..Whoever heard of people loving and rooting for the Underdog, right? Or, loving a complex character that keeps battling their demons with sheer will; falls down, loses, learns, gets up and keeps going... That's some serious gourmet shit. Really well put together video!
Atomic Blonde demonstrates what a great actor can do, and Charlize Theron is arguably the most talented actress Hollywood has ever had. Pay close attention to the look on her face just before the car goes into the river, she looks out of it, like she's trapped in some nightmare and barely keeping it together. She's also slim woman in life but for the movie she actually tones up to add a layer of realism to her part, unlike Alaqua Cox who is clearly out of shape and spends the entire series walking around with the same expression. As I've been saying all the long, it's not just the writing that's terrible, it's also the acting. If you pay peanuts you'll get monkeys. Disney should spend less on marketing and more on talent.
I think they are both bad, with Theron being slightly better (in terms of action, acting wise obviously Theron is much better) The fact of the matter is we won't get a good female fight scenes for a long time because the women simply have no idea hot to throw a punch and you need to suspend too much disbelief to accept that a twig of a woman like Theron would be able to take on all these men. You'd need an actor that has been training combat sports for many years and understands the art of it to get a good fight scene. Otherwise you get what you have in Atomic blonde, which is obviously fake fights that (for me) take you out of the movie, the choreography is great, the execution is terrible. Even male actors struggle with making action good, women have no chance, maybe in 10-20 years things will have improved enough, but for now...nah. All this shit just makes me appreciate Jackie Chan so much more, he and his team were simply way better than anyone even now.
i really would love if you did a breakdown and deep dive of blue eye samurai. i think that’s another fantastic example of a well written female character that isn’t just one-note “strong” but is complex and flawed
YESSS! A review on my favourite lady spy character and her movie! Although the action scenes are always overly packed with some plot armor here and there, the brutality is just soo well made! I wish a second movie was in the makings...
I've always said the best action heroes are NOT the ones that shoot constantly and always hit their targets, dodging fire. No, it's the ones that can take a blow, get messed up and keep going. From Mad Max to Hardcore Henry to Netflix's own Daredevil.. that's what made it great. John Wick gets this - he gets the crap knocked out of him in those films and that's why he's awesome and not just another shooty guy.
Invincible bullet dodging is the thing the bad guys do to make it more impressive when the almost normal human beats them. Even the later Resident Evil games knew that much.
Gina Carano has a pretty good fight scene in Haywire. She’s fighting a guy in a hotel room, but she’s just about managing to fend him off while she’s desperately looking around for an edge. Very tense and believable.
Shame on Disney and all of Hollywood they cancelled her all because Gina didn't want to put her pronouns in her Twitter/X bio and had a completely different political opinion. Gina is tough but also a kind and down to Earth gal.
Gina Carano is also a former MMA fighter and built like an F150, so she’s one of the few actresses who can actually look convincing beating up a 6-foot, 200-pound guy.
@@liamphibiaI think it was more that she compared liberals to Nazis, and republicans to the victims of the holocaust than not wanting to put pronouns in her bio…
@@phabiorules That's bullshit. The quote said nothing about Republicans and Democrats, but only that the holocaust didn't start with camps, but with people allowing others to tell them who to hate. The fact that Democrats identified themselves with the Nazis in that situation says more about them than it does about Gina Carano.
15:02 Correct me if I’m wrong but, in the comics she can read body language and lips perfectly, right? So she doesn’t need to sign or be signed at because she can just read someone’s lips. So the only reason that someone has to sign at her or she signs back is basically just for representation sake because irl deaf people use sign language. Because someone waving their arms around to sign is gonna be wayyyy more noticeable when you’re trying to secretly communicate than just mouthing the words
this is modern marvel writers we're talking about here they refuse to acknowledge crucial details like that and just make the characters much worse than they needed to be
![[Warframe] Ember solo lvl cap void cascade fissure](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0dhQGNYOlhQ/mqdefault.jpg)
So happy to see such an amazing response after how hard i worked on this video, a subject that really needed to be addressed directly.
If you enjoy my work dont forget to let TH-cam know by liking and subscribing and help me be able to do this fulltime 🫡
Thank you! Well said 150% on point
I just wanted to give you feedback, as you content creators think about this stuff. I clicked the video initially because the caps in the title emphasized what it was about. Ie the WOMEN, instead of something negative. I'm real tired of that, even if I know it's the meta when it comes to popping out. Great analysis btw and I'm really glad I gave it a click.
You earned my sub. Solid work dude.
Good analysis, but try to ease off on your misogynist language of heavy set women (e.g., “big chungus,” “hot pie,” ect.”)
Awesome video! And now I have to go watch Atomic Blonde.
I'd probably recommend not using the "r" word, though, as my understanding is it's generally considered a slur now.
Reminds me of Mulan, animated vs live action. The animated Mulan overcomes her weaknesses with dedication, cleverness, and making friends she can rely on. The live-action Mulan "has a large amount of ki and thus succeeds at everything she ever wants to do ever because girlboss in drag lol."
I never got that complaint, in the live action there is at least a reason why she's stronger then the men. In the animated version she becomes stronger than the men in a single training montage which doesn't make any sense.
@gadio16 Because "having more ki" makes more sense 😂 Also, she's never depicted as stronger than the men, she's more clever :)
@@SailorGreen I'm glad you got it. 👍
Oh yeah sure she outrun every single men at the end of the song with the heavy bags on the stick by being clever 😉
@@gadio16 No she doesn't. She never becomes physically superior in the animated film, she uses her wits to survive pretty much.
The whole point was she brought a different perspective that saved the day, not that she was a super awesome uberwoman
@@BlazingOwnager denial is not only a river in Egypt.
I love when Heroes ACTUALLY TAKE DAMAGE during fights with other people. Its why i loved the Wick films and Nobody
and daredevil. seeing the nurse constantly patching him up just shows how much punishment he takes.
Spider-Mans... Iron man... Any Male Hero you'd see gets hurt...
Even SUPERMAN was hurt and was killed and he is the strongest Superhero in the cinema history... 😐
Exactly
Watch the old Jackie Chan movies.
Police story
Who am i?
The drunken master
Best action/martial arts movies you will see.
i feel like the wicks actually do this to such an extreme that it swings too heavily in the other direction and it starts to become unbelievable that he could ever continue on with how much damage we see him take, but at that point i just turn my brain off and enjoy the action ;)
I think another phenomenal thing about that fight in Atomic Blonde is also the technicality of it. Lorraine knows that she's disadvantaged against those men, and you can see her using the momentum of their attacks to gain some advantage (dodging an incoming first but using it to throw the enemy out of balance). It's very well done.
thats the thing...the female characters in most modern movies are not female at all - they are male characters in a female body: I think every viewer understands intuitively that our female friends and siblings were able to kick our ass until we were about 13 years old at which point we became stronger, taller, heavier - not smarter though i'm afraid...make her a fighter and give her more technical skill, make her a superhero even? that won't change the fact that the men will be heavier and taller..they just bullrush you and then what? a female has to outclass a man by an enormous degree to be able to fight in close combat - that skill has to be attained by working much harder and even then you'd do well to use your skill to keep distance and employ tactical superiority so the weight advantage gets mitigated
simply put: if you want a 'kick-ass' female you have to work a lot harder as a writer to make it believable because a woman just isn't a superior fighter by nature and claiming she is runs counter to everything we see in the real world - if you're lazy the character won't be believable
with a male character you could just cast a strong burly fellow who got into bar fights early in life and you'd have a believable semi-kick-ass dude, that just doesn't work with female characters because the strength differential is too big
We see that in the corkscrew scene quite well. The man is holding her down with just 1 arm and she can't overpower him, so she gets crafty.
@@johnkirk1772facts. i had to train speed and so much god damned counter punching and defense to continue sparring my homies. its not for the weak. strats all day theres no simple brawlin it out for me
@@johnkirk1772 You're right that you have to work a lot harder to write a female character who can defeat male characters in physical combat. But boy, when you are able to do it right, the payoff is great. I initially wrote off Atomic Blonde as being another cliche girl power movie with unsatisfying fight scenes, but after seeing what was covered in this video, I'm going to really have to give it a watch. Because damn, that fight scene was...brutal...and epic...and just really good. A character like her with that much grit earns so much more respect from me than someone like Carol Danvers or whatever Echo's name is.
You CAN write female characters beating male characters. It just takes some more work to make it work.
@@SunshineTheLover And even then, you'd probably need a lot of luck on your side to be able to even hope to keep up with one of the homies in a real fight. That's just the realities of the disparity in physical strength.
Audiences don't hate female characters, they hate badly written ones.
And they hate the writers even more when they're refusing to do better because they're too scared that it'd go against the agenda
And you're biased to then scrutinize female characters a lot more so we can't have stoic or simple women. They have to appeal to y'all, so Captain Marvel gets mocked even tho she acts like a typical male action hero lol
@nailinthefashion no. She doesn't. If a male hero did the same we would mock him. Get over yourself
@@nailinthefashion that high horse. Get off it now.
I have been saying this about "woke" characters for a long time, they are poorly written, 2 dimensional, just there to be a diversity representative. There is no story arc.
I've always wondered how utterly *insane* must that Atomic Blonde combat have been to shoot... and the amazing thing is: it's mostly believable.
She has two opponents? Tries to separate them.
They're both men and can leverage a weight disparity? Tries to prevent them from thinking straight.
But combat is a messy thing, so even being the better planner and executor in a fight, she is still fighting more than one heavier opponent and that means taking hits.
That fight feels earned, to me.
It's because the director and choreographer are trained fighters and stuntmen so know how to shoot action. They are actually part of the same group that made the John Wick movies not to mention that Charlize worked her butt off training the same way Keanu trained for John Wick. She did the majority of the fight scenes herself which helps make it look more realistic.
@@CazRaXnow, that makes sense!
John Wick is less believable and the sounds are terrible. It's not perfect
@@rosetereziewasilewska371 A world where underground assassins trade around gold and shoot silencers in the middle of a subway station without attracting attention is unbelievable?
Gee I really am surprised
@@CazRaX love that so much. You can totally tell Charlize put everything into that fighting! Amazing payoff.
My biggest pet peeve with action movies where we see women fight is that they don't take into account the weight disparity. They cast women who are so light and thin for these characters that are supposed to throw around men who are twice or thrice their weight. It's totally unbelievable!
I'd like to see fight choreography that shows a woman's skill in fighting using speed and agility, rather than trying to go toe to toe with strength vs a man. That's not realistic. It would be so amazing to watch a woman fight targeting a man's weak points (groin, throat, eyes, ears) rather than whatever shit we see on films today.
Finally, if they're going to show a woman manhandling a man, they better make sure she has the build for it. At least cast someone who has the weight and muscles for it. Not someone who is so frail they'd be blown away by a gust of wind.
On the weight disparity, this doesn't involve a female character, but it made me think of the film The Raid. One of the bad guys, Mad Dog, is significantly shorter than most of the other character. But let's just say that his name is pretty descriptive of how he fights. When a larger character throws him, he just rolls with it and keeps attacking. He attacks fast and gets in close, and you can tell that he's better than most of the other characters at grappling, where their size advantage.
I also like the speed and agility, but sometimes the way their choreograph women fighting gets absurd, all sorts of complicated gymnastics that would be really risky to do in an actual fight situation.
And in the Raid, even though we've got a clear hero, he really has to struggle with multiple attackers and has to use his environment, and in a few situations, actually runs.
The fight from atomic blonde here I think is great because it gets messy, and the bad guys don't just go down. Too many movies provide goons that just go down with a few hits. These guys get stabbed or shot and keep at it. It's not all perfect technique and clean hits.
Atomic Blonde was so excellently choreographed, Charlise Theron really knocked it out of the park.
so true...
Theron is really good action star.
Action hero C.T. is not something I expected to see, but I love this era of her career
@l6zn3xv9vshe is an amazing actress period. Brie cheeze or Disney Ridley could easily be replaced by a cartboard photo and nobody will notice any diffrence.
I never saw it, but the choreography looks amazing, the fights seem so visceral, and HOLY HELL props to the sound department!!
One thing worth noting in atomic blonde is that later into the fight, Lorraine is visibly exhausted from fighting
Like Matt in the hallway fight in the first season of Daredevil. Leaning on walls just for a moment whenever he can.
Because he's just human. Sure he has the "sonar", but no super strenght or stamina.
Nobody does it similairly. Even John Wick struggles in lengthy fights.
I love to see it.
@@GingerZombie29 but that's what you don't know when you lose a foot and can't hear body compensates with super human abilities, clearly science man.
I know what you meanbut look at this. Sorry, excuse for a character. She has stamina like she is a super Saiyan from the dragon ball show. I've been deployed multiple times and I can tell you from experience a 5 minute fight. If that's providing that you are in shape unlike this thing that makes Yo
u wanna throw up every time I see her?
Exhausted, scarred, and bloodied... Reflecting reality...
If the character doesn't have to struggle to win, then it's probably not fun to watch them win. If the character is superhumanly powerful then they need to face equally superhuman enemies, capable of hurting them.
The worst part is, she's supposed to be so naturally and flawlessly skilled at fighting & killing bc of the power her comic book version actually has of being able to do anything she sees someone do and retain the information and skills. Mind you, this was an ability the show never uses this. Not even once.
@@IhorEleven pretty much, without the memory loss side effect
see this power actually makes it make sense why she's called Echo
Wait isn't that also Taskmaster's ability too?
@turtato2155 yes, it is
So Marvel stole that from DC’s Orphan (3rd batgirl) Cassandra Cain.
ah yes, the show writers who didn't know how Daredevil (the blind) could communicate with Echo (the mute) until the actor raised question
that is hilarious.
Echo is deaf, not mute, LOL
@@asyabellia6791thanks for the correction but they still can't communicate, just saying.
@@AreUReady2007 tactile sign language exists and has been in use since the 1800s, just saying. How do you think Helen Keller (who is deafblind) communicated?Not to speak of Haben Girma, the first deafblind person to graduate from Harvard, who uses a combination of tactile sign language and technology to communicate. Furthermore, deaf people can learn to speak (most of them do), and blind people can sign, as long they do have hands to do that with. Moreover, text to speech programs exist nowadays.
@@asyabellia6791 thanks,cool info.
In that Blonde movie, she also shoots that guy and he *KEEPS FIGHTING.* Incredible respect to the filmmakers there. Being shot doesn't always put you down, and a woman taking on a man who is wounded is still really tough for her. She comes out above it by some luck and a lot of perseverance and training. She doesn't throw them around like they she's super powered because she isn't. It makes a more interesting fight, and a more interesting character.
And it creates a lot of tension for you to root for the protagonist. She really could lose here. These villains are actually a threat to her.
it's great
dude gets shot and shock and adrenaline keep him going
she actually attacks their joins and weak points
fight is tense
and then... black widow going through hammer industries.... one hitting guards and leaving them on the ground...
Oh we miss the good old days of well written bad ass chick's. Outside of the women from ANDOR, the chick's in Disney shows are like wafers, absolutely no substance to them.
Endurance. If a female wants to win in a fight against a man, they must be able to outlast them. Endure more pain, and train their muscles for endurance.
The only people I've seen still kicking around after being shot are crack fiends or high on something. 😂
The last time I recall them writing a good female character was Tangled. She was more competent than Flynn in a lot of situations but she was charming, likable and feminine while still being a “strong female character” and Flynn still felt like a masculine charming guy despite being incredibly flawed.
Agree, and her weakness being that she still young and naive (although that could be a strength, because no way Flynn gonna befriend the men in the bar lol). While mother Gothel (?) weakness being her overconfident at the final scene, which gave Flynn the opportunity to cut Rapunzel's hair
As a woman with long hair and got called Rapunzel a lot, I hated tangled. It made no sense why she had to cut her hair that short or why it had to change colour either.
@@insomniCat16 It tells you in the movie why and shows you as well. The only reason why her hair was golden was due to the magic of the flower.
@Ironica82 fair enough for the colour - I only watched it once a very long time ago, so probably forgot that plot point. But Rapunzel ending up with short hair is just weird. I could understand if it was still long but at a manageable length but they just decided "nope let's ditch the long hair completely for a character known for her long hair"
Mulan cutting her hair in the animation was powerful because she did it herself. Flynn was the one who cut Rapunzel's hair to save her, it doesn't speak anything of her being a strong character here, she was just there and didn't mind. Any woman woulda kicked the guy's ass for chopping her hair off after being grateful for the save. But this is classic Disney, always trying to empower the female characters wrongly into being men.
The fact they didn't blindfold Echo is what really made me genuinely give up, I tried. You're telling me a kidnapping team is totally fine just showing their face to someone they are planning on releasing? Freaking brilliant writing that.
blindfolding her would also negate her ability to communicate so i also don't understand why they did not do that
@@francreeps4509 cause they had no idea how to make her escape such a situation in a cool way. After all, the writers were doing their best to avoid having the characters beauty be destroyed by injuries, dirt or anything.
@@francreeps4509 You don't need to communicate nonstop and you can do other things to cover your identities in the moments yuo do that. It's just a rookie mistake.
It would have been a good character moment. She can't hear. Now she can't see. Maybe that would have given her anxiety? Forcing her to speak or find a solution?
@@RiesenWuschel are you mental? Echo is deaf, if they blindfold her she now has no hearing or sight to get her bearings, that's pretty debilitating.
The scene in T2 where Sarah Connor escapes the mental institute is so good. It focuses on showing how smart she is, and how desperate she is to get to John. Not just “she’s a badass that does badass things”.
I'm getting bored with "badass females".
And that bravado turned to absolute fear the moment T800 stepped into the scene. Her whole demeanor changed once her ultimate fear came back to vision.
They show us how tough she is before that, which makes the fear all the more potent to the viewer.@@FINETUNEDGAMING
And also it’s a continuation of Sarah Connor’s development from the first movie, where she was scared and mousy in the beginning, but more experienced by the end.
Sarah Connor's whole arc is a masterclass in badass lady character development
can i just say people dont give jessica jones (season 1) enough credit.
Shes well writen, troubled, damaged, and feels real despite being superpowered.
even season 2 at the start the way people treat her for being superpowered in the real world feels real.
I love Season 2 because it actually justifies heroes being HEROIC. We get her mom who is a disturbed woman - not evil, not cackling, just mentally ill and unstable. And she's TERRIFYING. Because when someone who is mentally unstable can literally rip your spine out through your stomach and you're not sure what she's going to do... that's bad. It drove home the Spiderman thing we always here - great power without great responsibility can turn you into a monster. Meanwhile Jessica just wants a mom who loves her.
The start was slow as sin, but man the back half of Season 2 was a banger.
Jessica Jones season 1 was so good. Netflix was loyal to the characters and source material. But I also don’t know if it could get made today under Disney.
Jessica Jones is also superpowered but not omnipotent/perfect. A more interesting version of a Superman character.
Omg I LOVED the Jessica Jones series especially as someone going in totally blind to the story
@@sai600Deadpool happened. So jessica jones could absolutely happen
Atomic Blonde was directed by David Leitch, who is one of the creators of the John Wick franchise and the JW stunt team worked on it. Leitch was not only a stunt- performer & coordinator, but also a competitive Kickboxer, he knows how it feels when you get punched in the face. He and Chad Stahelski ( the director of the JW movies, also a former stunt guy & martial arts expert, trained by grandmaster Dan Inosanto, Bruce Lee's student) are also huge fans of Asian action cinema and learned how to choreograph fights, from Yuen Woo-ping, while working on the Matrix trilogy. Yuen Woo-Ping is a legendary action director from Hong Kong, who worked on more movies I can count here, incl. Matrix, Kill Bill, Crouching Tiger, tons of Jet Li/ Donnie Yen/ Jackie Chan movies etc.
Also, Charlize Theron put in some serious work for that movie, she did the same training like Keanu did for the JW movies and she did most of the fight scenes herself. Theron trained with Heidi Moneymaker ( she´s a veteran stunt woman, that doubles S. Johanson in the MCU) & Daniel Bernhardt ( another veteran stunt guy, who has been in tons of movies/ shows and trained Bob Odenkirk for "Nobody", he also appears in Atomic Blonde as a KGB henchman).
According to Leitch, they only doubled her for a couple of scenes, that were deemed too dangerous for her.
It´s not rocket science, if you put in the work and have people who know what they´re doing, you get great results. If you let diversity hires, who are absolute hacks, do it... you get garbage like Echo.
I'm glad Atomic Blonde is getting some love and recognition these days, I still remember how excited I left the theater after seeing this movie, I loved it.
Also, Daniel Bernhardt is an accomplished martial artist and martial arts actor...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodsport_II%3A_The_Next_Kumite?wprov=sfla1
That's a neat bit of info.
Leitch has said he'd love to do an Atomic Blonde/John Wick crossover. I say bring it on.
@@gelchert That would be AWESOME!
You know, the _idea_ of Echo is amazing.
This hitwoman who worked for the Kingpin for years killing him in revenge and then making it her mission to take down his whole operation is a great plot - but it needs two things: One, it needs to be made clear that it's an insane thing to do, and two, it needs to be DIFFICULT. I have no problem with her being a great fighter, but it has to be challenging.
Show her beating down some mobster to extract information, only to be surprised by his repertoire of goons storming the place, requiring her escape. Show her struggling to exfiltrate from a compound on high alert, as she keeps getting ambushed due to a lack of recon. Show her needing to patch herself up in a secure location. Show her being ambushed at said secure location because she used it too many times. Show her escaping from capture because everyone needs to sleep, but the goons can do that in shifts.
Additionally, show her almost self-destructive desire for vengeance that brings her back to the brink of death over and over again, understandable because the Kingpin _murdered her father,_ but eventually it crosses from retribution into obsession.
And most importantly, when she has succeeded in her mission, show that it didn't really help her move on at all, and that all she has to show for it are scars and cold apathy.
The complications that you list in your middle paragraph have the potential to be so interesting, and they'd feel completely natural for a story in which somebody embarks on a campaign like Echo's.
That paragraph also gave me flashbacks to my days of playing Long War 2. The tactical depth of that game is incredible, and it makes most cinematic action sequences feel so dull and forced by comparison.
Kinda gives the same vibes as Daredevil but in a good way. In Daredevil, you dont see the hero being all-powerful and handling the vigilante job as easy peasy. He's not always able to keep up his strong stoic facade. He cries. He breaks down. But most importantly, he gets back up. Echo, along with tons of other new character in the MCU phase 4 nowadays, just feel like "look at me, im a quirky/serious badass and im the replacement for the heroes you once know and love and theres nothing you can do about it" **cough** riri **cough**
Also she doesn’t hear! Shows how ambushing is something people will use against her over and over again cause they have her info and show how she build tactics against it over the years.
I read a very old BL manga about a similar situation as Echo , “ Banana Boat “ Not in the deaf impaired people. But a similar kingpin protege/ future heir plot with a diversity cast .
Main was gay . But you didn’t have it thrown to your face every 2 lines . Not had explicit sex scenes . Plot was closer to John Wick than Echo .
Echo trying to get out from Kingpin could had been a very interesting story. But too many Mary Sue and plot armor make one lose interest in rooting for her success.
My man did a better summary and plot that people that are paid to do that.
I've never seen Atomic Blonde, but when you were breaking down the fight scene from that film, I was so engrossed in that that I forgot what the video was even about. Bringing it back to Echo for the comparison was a very, very rude awakening, lol. Excellent video. I need to go watch Atomic Blonde.
Dang, that is so badass. I've never seen Atomic Blonde but even just seeing the sequential clips had me hooked. Beyond the incredible tenacity of her character, that sort of stunt choreography requires HARD work as well as a willingness to still get hurt, as someone inevitably will with such tight fighting. Totally different vibe with Maya. She isn't challenged, she shows no emotion, and because her circumstances were too good for her to get hurt, there's no fear or suspense around whether or not she'll make it out.
Absolute props to Charlize and I love her even more now!
Every part of Atomic Blonde lives up to those clips. Highly recommended you watch it.
Another thing i really liked about that movie was how super consistent the sountrack is, how its used and how relevant it is. I hate almost all german music, but they obviously put so much care into even that, and i do like those.
just wait til you see that they shot this sentence in complete longshot. Best fightscene of the decade.
It's John wick 1 level of good except Lorraine is an actually interesting character. You should check it out.
The more I learn about the amount of her own stunts/ fighting/ driving she does, the intense training she does for all her roles and how many times she is injured on set and keeps going, she has mad props from me, This is a woman who nearly broke her neck filming Aeon Flux back when she was in her 20s and was in hospital paralyzed for a week, finished the movie and continues to do her own stunts at almost 50, she even dislocated her shoulder doing the fights in Old Guard and in a recent interview she said she still has no desire to stop doing her own stunts/fights as long as she is able.
Kate Bishop is one of the few recent Marvel female heroes I like. She did sports and learned skills all her life because she admired Hawkeye, but quickly learns she’s in way over her head. It’s only through Hawkeye mentoring her that she becomes better throughout the show and in the end takes up the mantle
Hawkeye and Wonda Vision were some of the only things to come out of this phase which felt like they read the assignments
Yes, and in episode one, she messes up and is saved by Hawkeye
In the second episode, she tries to save him, screws up and gets caught as well.
This is why the Critical Drinker didn't review Hawkeye, he couldn't pull his 'wah a female lead" crap on it.
@@theblackflame4002 sounds like he'd be an unironically Adam fan if he reacted to Hazbin Hotel
Yeah, Kate Bishop is much better written than a lot of the new mcu ladies, but her taking up the mantel and also almost replacing Black Widow as Hawkeye's close friend happened waaaaaaaay too fast. It should have taken two seasons at least.
@theblackflame4002 Imagine watching that lunatic
Your thumbnail worried me. I came half expecting a rag on Atomic Blonde, and I must say I am exceedingly happy not only with the acknowledgment of the Brilliance of the film, but the blow by blow analysis of the care taken to deliver such a fantastic and believable female badass. You not only called up Atomic Blonde, but a plethora of other fantastic examples of female heroines that worked! Another of my favorites is The Long Kiss Goodnight, a very strongly written, directed and acted film that also shows the toll such action takes on a human being, let alone a woman having to constantly punch up just to to stand a chance. Thank you for a great video. You've earned this sub.
I mean even without watching atomic Blonde, I already knew it wasn't that, the MCU has gone down hill with their writing to be honest.
So, you have a character with Deafness, and a missing limb. You think the first thing you would do is think up situations that use those premises so that you can insert them into the story. Missing information because it is said in a crowded room (hearing aid users struggle to understand people in crowds). Perhaps dropping a flash-bang in a room, and showing everyone else affected by the sound except her. Kicking someone and having the leg fly off. Having someone unaware of her leg shoot her in it, or hit it with a bar. etc etc
or you could do like the lady in the kingsman did and turn her artificial legs into weapons.
That is so great, gahh why can't they just brainstorm for a bit on these stories?? I would still be watching!
The problem (in my opinion, which coincidently is from a disabled person xD) isn't even their lack of good ideas when it comes to this topic, its their incredibly restrictive world view.
I believe that, in the minds of at least some directors/movie makers nowadays, its actually important to NOT show any of the specific situations that would only work with specific disabilities, because that would imply that there IS a difference between a disabled character and and a character who is not.
Which is something that apparently is no longer something that is "safe" to acknowledge.
Its really strange to me that people want to push the idea that there isn't any difference between people with different characteristics (race,sex, disability/lack thereof, age...), yet at the same time, the whole idea that there are groups that need special protection or rights heavily implies that there IS a difference.
Or, to put it into one single sentence: If disabled people are just as capable as non-disabled people, then why cant we show them failing, loosing, and being evil just as much?
One thing I liked about matt fractions hawkeye run is that it showed how hawkeyes deafness affected his everyday interactions as well as his fighting. His deafness wasn’t just there for no reason but visibly impacted the story. Echo could’ve taken inspiration from that. I want to see how being deaf results in challenges for her and how that affects her character.
@@random.3665exactly it makes no sense I saw a story the other day where a director had a character that was in a device that was similar to a wheelchair (and I looked into it it’s not even remotely similar) and since that character is a villain they decided to portray him as walking instead😂 because I guess wheelchair users can’t be villains???? It was the craziest take I’d seen in awhile
One of the major reasons why older films' main characters are so well received is because the are flawed and have weaknesses. They're interesting and even relatable. Today's tv and movie "heroes" are just dull, unstoppable machines with no emotion.
The Terminator was a superb villain because it was an unstoppable, emotionless machine. Somewhere along the way, the signals got crossed.
basically whats problem with character like Captain Marvel
I dislike people using examples from 30-40 years ago of strong female characters. There's plenty of modern ones to draw the comparison to instead.
Mizu and Akemi from Blue Eye Samurai, Katara from Avatar, any woman from Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, Furiosa from Mad Max and Jessica Jones just from the top of my head.
Using old example like Ripley or Sarah Connor just fuels the idea that there are *no* well written strong women in modern media which is just wrong. The badly written ones just get much more attention from idiots online.
@@tortoiseoflegends4466 You've touched on something that's part of the problem: these examples of well-written women _have_ been around for 30-40 years, but the current iteration of "stunning and brave" likes to pretend that they never existed prior to _this_ moment (I'm looking at you, "first female action hero" Jennifer Lawrence).
@@tortoiseoflegends4466 The badly written ones get much more attention from idiots - Feminists, Disney, and allies - as those are their ideal women. These horrible women are the reason so many "idiots online" critique them.
Using "old" yet widely known examples allows his point to reach a wider general audience; using "modern" examples that are younger than a pregnancy, ie Blue Eye - well sh*t son, no one knows what you're talking about.
Xena, The Warrior Princess, and Gabrielle are some of the great characters. Xena won and lost, and her story arc makes sense. Even the way men within her story treated her, to me, was as an equal warrior, whether she was good or bad. It was all about her capabilities as a warlord. She was not a survivor of sexual assault; she was bad, and she excelled at it until she finally came to her senses and saw the consequences of her actions. She decided that she needed to do good now, every day, as much as she could
I don’t recall who , but they once asked a famous author how he wrote such strong and compelling female characters . He said “ I don’t write female characters , I write good characters some of which happen to be female “. Most guys especially sci fi and comic nerds love strong kick ass females, look at the sales of those products . What we don’t like is bad writing , one dimensional Mary sues who are not interesting or compelling as characters.
Pretty sure it was George R R Martin
For example the role Sigourrney Weaver had in Alien was initially written to be played by a man. I don't remember why but we ended up for the god with Ellen Ripley
To me it looks like the Expanse really took that to heart, pretty much all their characters, including the women characters were just well written believeable people. And when I see believeable obviously I mean in the world of the Expanse, it's still Scifi ofcourse.
Neil Gaiman, writer of the Sandman comics said that. And I do agree with him to a certain extent. You can get some great characters by just treating them all the same. However, I do believe you can add layers and depth to a character by writing from particular perspectives. For instance, we all seem to agree that a woman’s physical strength disadvantage can make her a more interesting fighter character. What Neil described is basically step one after “write stereotypes of women as background characters.” Step two would be “how does this character’s background as female, black, blind, gay, etc. impact how they experience and react to this situation?”
JJ Abrams “I don’t try and write strong female characters or strong male characters, I just try and write, hopefully, strong characters and sometimes they happen to be female”
I don't even mind unrealistic fight scenes in action movies, that's expected but these no flaw-perfect-cant do anything wrong characters are so annoying that i can't fathom what these writers are thinking.
The writer and director might be amateur from wattpad. They didn't understand anything and Just told to direct because they are activist. Go watch their interview, they keep talking giving opportunity to mute and deaf people but they never tall about the writing and directing
Would be believable if it was iron man thor or someone else with super powers but does she even have super powers or just disabilities?
@@marving.8868 what are you trying to say.?
Those "writers " are usually just incompetent political activists aligned with the company agenda, who use multimillion dollars budget to create their own power fantasies.
There’s an entire genre of story with characters who don’t do any wrong, those types of protagonists we call “aspirational heroes”. A lot of people find them boring, but I enjoy them. “What would Clark do,” and , “What would Steve do,” are questions I use to ground myself morally because they’re literally pinnacles of virtues that I strive to uphold. They’re both characters who would put themselves on the line to save others even without powers.
I had the luck to see an advanced screening for Atomic Blonde and had a lot of fun but was said to see people not talk about it more. Nice to see it brought up after so long
I remember when Steve Rogers was chosen for the Supersoldier program, it wasn't because he was your archetypical soldier who followed orders without question and was already a bulldozer in the battlefield, it was because he was an intelligent, resourceful man with a well-attuned moral compass, which was what he would need to wield such power.
I wish we could see this for female characters. Instead all we got was "I was already awesome but now with more fireworks".
This, folks. This.
Well he wasn’t intelligent. Just has a heart of gold. He’s not very bright.
@@LadyVenVen He could solve the problem of the flag on the pole while his companions struggled, he's also quite the strategist in the battlefield and for that you need to have brains. That he can be sometimes a bit naïve doesn't mean he's stupid. The fandon flanderized him quite a bit.
@@LadyVenVenOh i don’t know..
Maybe because he is from the world war 2 era and suddenly wakes up in the modern world?
Of course he isn’t bright when he has to adapt to an era he doesn’t belong in with futuristic shit.
@@Robin503 I didn’t think he was bright in ww2 era either but ok
In Daredevil throughout the whole show, he gets tossed around and beat up.
Matt fights with some brilliant strategy (shutting the lights out, using the surroundings and his sling). He meets his match countless times (the ninjas who move without sound, kingpin who just shrugs everything off with brute strength, Pointdexter/Bulleye who fights from range) and we see him overcome all this.
The Daredevil team deserved much more 😭
They were the best
Wow so surprised this channel only has 43K subs! What a well-put and thought-provoking video! I agree and felt a lot of what you were saying but I couldn't spell it out in my mind until watching your video.
For me I enjoy seeing a woman physically be outmatched in an fight since it’s a chance to show the audience the woman’s skill with weapons, grappling, striking or even how resourceful she can be by quickly improvising and using the environment as an advantage. A great example of this is the original Mulan animation where despite being in a male army she doesn’t directly fight anyone but instead outwits them and uses her intelligence to be an asset. Thats how to make a female fighter interesting
Terminator was this way. absolute clinic on how to have badass women characters
Sarah connor starts out mousey and frail and terrified, neurotically grasping to normalcy and gradually becomes tough by almost dying repeatedly....
she gets kidnapped by an insane badass killer maniac who saves her life, and what does she do...fall instantly in love of course. trauma bond 100%
even still she gets institutionalized, and they show her working out in her cell, trying to hide her emotions and failing...linda hamilton herself got STACKED. she barely looks feminine anymore, you can totally believe she is dangerous....and what happens? she still gets whooped by fat bob the guard until she takes his nightstick, then uses a syringe and a hostage instead of fighting multiple guards.
that scene of her trotting down the hallway with a nightstick, looking scary dangerous and yet vulnerable and scared...is a masterwork of visual storytelling and craft
by the third she is surviving because she is calm and driven, and has made friends...not because she beats dudes in fistfights.
she knows who she is, what she cannot do and doesnt give a damn if the whole world thinks shes crazy.
100% the same way we root for Jackie Chan fighting the goons as he's quick-witted, smaller than them so the underdog, and its FUN to watch.
Tho when she go hand to hand with a man and get punched in the face she would’ve gotten knocked out she took lots of clean hit from the bad guys.
Realistically she would gotten killed in real life same with a man💀.
I also enjoy seeing a woman kick some ass once in a while.
Xena.
She outsmarted a lot of people, including gods.
Again brilliantly done! The scene was also an example of how the creators don’t know deaf people. I have a few deaf friends and they are the noisiest people that I know. It makes sense. Deaf people do not do stealth very well. That would be like expecting fashion sense from a blind person.
in b4 the accusations of ableism
It's far worse than that. To get the full 'deaf representation' deaf writers were also included. That unawareness of how loud they are and how important sound was went straight from the writing table to the finished product.
Excuse me! Most deaf people are noisy but not strong female characters. They are perfect. She can sense how noisy she is by the vibrations in the air or whatever. You need to check yourself. 😂
@justin
🤣
@justinsmutek8541 “Vibrations in the air” 🤣 🤣 🤣
I had to pause this video midpoint to comment your breakdown is SO FLAWLESS & DETAILED. Nicely done 👍🏾.
No this review isn't flawless its fundamentally wrong comparing a movie aiming for realism to a comic book movie is stupid not all art has to conform to the same standards
there is a korean series in netflix called "My Name" that is very similar to Echo. A protagonist that in order to get revenge turns into a dark path that involves a new sort of father like figure that encourages her quest for vengance but soon her finds a chance of letting that past behind her and finally live a honorable normal life.
The thing is, unlike Echo, the protagonist actually suffers through a lot and the people around her also suffer. Her relationships are tested and there are real consequences. Trust is broken and mistakes are made that threaten to eat the protagonist alive and, even if she succeeds at the end, there are things that cannot be undone.
Also, the protagonist, just like echo, becomes a fighter that, unlike Maya actually struggles and gets her ass kicked. And in the fight scenes you can really belive that she can defeat the people she defeats and you also see her training and gaining experience.
just wrote that the plot reminded me a lot of Echo, but without the stakes the kdrama had
My name was such a masterpiece
I love my name
Yeah, and in My name in one of the first series female lead beat up bunch of boxers, who was trained for years, when she was trained for couple of months, with bare hands, and she took the first place in their fight. It was very stupid scene
@@shivaniarunkumar1248 indeed
The fights of the atomic blonde, really hurts by seeing it. There is always the stake, she would not make it. Really well done! The echo-"fights" are just a snore-feast.
Watching her hit the doors made me flinch
on one hand i agree, on the other hand it annoys me how female characters will ALWAYS be under more scrutiny and receive more criticism than their male counterparts ever will. disney doesn’t have many good male characters anymore either, and the gary stu/male power fantasy has been a cornerstone of action movies since the beginning. i hate that these writers and directors do these female characters such a massive disservice, not only because it sucks from a narrative and entertainment perspective, but it also encourages rabid anger from fans that inevitably leads to misogynistic rhetoric and even backlash against the innocent actors.
I always point to Atomic Blonde when I discuss female action in movies with people. What makes it more believable is her reliance on weapons, Judo, elbows, and teeps. Her fight style matches her size. Also, she takes a lot of damage. Obviously it still isn't realistic, but they at least make the attempt to seem plausible.
Not to mention: most of the fights starts with her landing a surprise hit first from ambushes.
Compared to the black widow hallway fight in one of the avengers movies … not a hair out of place and her makeup was perfect
@@weswolever7477 Anna is another example.
I don't think It matters if they struggle or not, fights scenes can be more things than realistic, like Jackie chan movies the only struggle or tension comes before he gets a hold of a chair, or a table, or a couch, or stairs, or a fridge then they become comedic or more about the stuntwork, and there's more ways to write fight scenes like a western duel, most of the duels are written by revealing information building tension until it goes off and the only action is the climax, what It should matter is the character work that go behind it, because it's easy to come up with whatever justification for an outcome in a fight, It is more difficult for it to actually be relevant and matter to the characters and the story
Wait, how was she able to do that stealth sequence so well? She's Deaf, right? I know that when one of your senses goes out, your other senses are enhanced but being able to hear yourself and your surroundings is a big part of stealth. They made a whole movie about it.
What's the name of the movie you're talking about ?
@@sebastiancastellanospinpinecho I imagine
Not to mention that she shot out the lights... Y'know, the thing providing you with the ability to see. The thing others might overcome by relying on their hearing, something she can't do. Seriously, what the heck???
Usually deaf people don't understand how loud they are.
@@sebastiancastellanospinpin Probably A Quiet Place.
Audiences don't hate female leads/characters. Too many of these writers do, which is why they keep turning them into women-shaped men.
They didn't turn them not into women-shaped men but into killbots. Even the Superman who is overpowered by definition has problems, personal struggles, private life, sentiments and fears and can fail. But this "strong female characters" are just "enter the room, clear the room (looking like Tyson fighting vs kindergartners), go to next room, maybe say meaningless stuff while going to the next room".
I haven't seen Atomic Blonde, but I'd like to throw in my two cents and bring up another great movie that highlights character strengths and weaknesses and how you can have a female hero that still has her flaws.
In Dredd 2012, Judge Dredd is charged with showing a new Judge, Anderson, the ropes. She's scored low on most of her entry tests, but she's a powerful telepath and is a great asset to the Judges. So Dredd takes her out and it's his say whether she passes or fails.
As the movie progresses, we see Anderson is competent, but she's insecure and unsure of how to handle the dark and gritty aspects of the job. But there is a scene where they have to interrogate a hostage, and that's when we get a first glimpse of her potential. The hostage, a gangster they captured after an ambush, doesn't respond to Dredd's physical abuse and yelling. So Anderson gets in his head and mentally tortures him and gets what they need in only a few seconds.
Then there's a scene where Dredd and Anderson are separated and there's a team of corrupt Judges trying to kill them. One of them corners Anderson and pretends to be a friend, but Anderson quickly catches the lie and doesn't hesitate to shoot them in the head. Then she comes in and actually saves Dredd's life after he's injured and runs out of ammo.
By the end of the movie it's obvious how much Anderson has grown through her experience with Dredd. She respects her teacher, she knows what Judges have to do to maintain order, and she's confident in her abilities as a psychic and as a lawwoman.
Anyone can relate to a person who struggles and overcomes their flaws and learns how to use their strengths. That's what make people love fictional characters. No one can relate to a character who is super badass and excels at everything and always has to have the spotlight on how awesome they are.
Literally just re-watched it. Agree it shows a female fights differently to a male and the toll it takes.
Another great part about dredd is there are multiple scenes where dredd asks her for her perspective on the situation then asks her what they should do and why. He then tells her why she is wrong and why and she learns from that. I love dredd partially because karl urban is a GOAT.
Such a great film. I think Anderson's growth as a character is one of the main reasons I like it so much, aside from Urban chewing up scenery as Dredd.
> "ANNA" is another good female hitman fighter movie. The female playing the lead is (in real life) a 110 lb. model which is kinda hot. But she shows in the movie that since she is much smaller than the henchmen she fights, is often at a disadvantage, and is resourceful in using her other tactics to beat them.
Dredd. What a banger of a movie. I have to rewatch it.
I love how you compare poorly written works like "Echo" to more well-thought-out media such as "Atomic Blonde." It’s a great way to highlight the flaws and pinpoint where they fall short in comparison to other pieces of media that actually know what they’re doing.
Atomic Blonde if just much better choreographed, shot and performed. It's still as bad otherwise. How do you make a small but well trained woman take out a mob of large men? Well you just make the men do everything dumb and wrong and you make the heroine unbreakable.
"well-thought-out media such as "Atomic Blonde.""
good one. xD
@@brendo7363 The fact you think a guy could have survived that either is funny. That's called being a movie.
Seriously IRL if you put the best spec ops soldier that ever lived against that many people, odds are they don't make it
Yeah irl. One shot is all it takes. There is only so much blood that can pour out before dying but in movies. No matter the sex. The main character always has an endless supply of blood flowing haha. It doesn't take much to read about that. But nowadays movies gotta be super duper koull and girl bossy. Since 2022, movies AND people have gone soft.
@@brendo7363str8 masc male fragility of ego lol. Of course they're gonna prefer Atomic Blonde that caters and panders to their assthetic AND ideals
Thanks for a fabulous video! One can only hope that a few executives in Hollywood watch it and self reflect...
Just subbed. The breakdown of the fight scene was absolutely comical
“I guess he died of eternal bleeding”
Maybe or maybe not dead, but front kicks do hurt.
I think it was internal bleeding.
@@REMY.C. it definitely was lol
@@damefame8921 cause I checked with doctors and you can't just bleed eternally, it has to stop one day 😂
Atomic Blonde is an amazing movie ... I was wondering why I don't see more people talking about it. It's one of the few if not the only movie with a female lead where I see proportional strength to her size, where the punches land with the necessary resistance. I'm no film maker so I dunno if this make sense, but the movie understands physics, and that's something I've always wished for on my female leads. And of course the plot is awesome. I didn't know it was by one of the creators of John Wick until recently, but it makes sense. A simple plot, perfectly executed.
this is kind of stupid because there are men super heroes who defy physics all the time, why is it only a problem when women do it?
@@Ava-nf2qq Well, the character in Atomic Blonde is not a superhero. Also, the issue I have is not about the characters bu about the direction and the actors. Many actresses don't have the musculature to make any stunt look realistic (they don't need to be jacked. Charlize does a great job in AB and she's fairly thin).
Ps: I also hate it when male actors can't make stunts look realistic
@@Ava-nf2qq if you have to use superheroes as a comparison to explain why girlboss action heroes are constantly perfect in every fight, maybe you should stop and reconsider if it's worth defending.
I liked the movie but thought the first half was too slow, but the action that we got in the 2nd half was soo good. Story was easily the weakest point, that twist was kinda ridiculous lol.
@@Ava-nf2qqIt’s obvious you didn’t watch the video at all considering even OP said numerous times that Lorraine is a normal human and is realistic when it comes to her battles and vulnerability. These are the characters people want and don’t have a problem with. Not that hard to understand.
In Atomic Blonde, Theron's character swings wider to try and deliver a heavier hit which makes sense cause of her smaller body frame. The goons don't even faze that much with 1 strike from and she has to either strike multiple times for them to get hurt or fight dirty and hit points that would do a lot of damage like the throat. She even uses throws that use the enemies' own momentum against them. It's just way more believable than a smaller fighter just casually throwing another fighter twice their size. Also if you want a good movie about a deaf protagonist in a fight for their life situation, I recommend Hush. It really showcased how disadvantageous it would be if you were deaf in a fight for your life scenario and when the protag made mistakes, there were brutal consequences for those mistakes. It's not a perfect movie but it's better than Echo imo.
Another problem I personally had with Echo was that they had whole scenes where everyone would speak using only sign language and they wouldn’t bother to give us subtitles. So there are occasionally huge swaths of episodes where I had no idea what was going on. This was especially bad in the woodpecker flashback. I mean, I don’t know why Maya shot the bird and then took it to her mother, nothing, all because they didn’t bother making it accessible for those of us that don’t know that language. Very weird.
talk about inclusivity to these soymilk sipping vegan writers lol
what a disgusting shit that they did that
Something wrong with your subtitle settings. Turn on CC English and you get subs for the signs.
@@alansargent9158 at the time, I tried that on multiple (3) devices but to no avail. It still left those parts untranslated. At this point, I could really care less though, so this is a problem for technicians.
I have no idea why it didn't work for you, but those parts were subtitled when I watched the show on Disney Plus. @@craiglee3048
Damn, imagine if this happened to you in real life, every day...
As much as I love these feminine-fighters, we also need compelling-characters who don't rely solely on violence.
Elle Woods from Legally Blonde. She's a brilliant lawyer, not a fighter.
Daria Morgendorffer, who is a smart-person in a world that rewards dumbness.
Marta Cabrera from Knives Out, the good and honest nurse.
Do you know how much effort it would take to make She-Hulk a good lawyer?
Because Disney doesn't
For any viewer Its to pull in male viewers. A good action scene is always a good idea.
Unless you make her significantly funny or stand out, an Elle woods in the MCU will never make it.
@@lol-ot4pn so she'd make it just fine.
the expanse has a glut of brilliant smart tough women. chrisjen, carmina, Anna just to name a few. Carmina can fight but she chooses her battles, Chrisjen is the ultimate politician who ends up making change through words rather than going out and beating someone up. Anna is the same, she got the leader of the UN elected just from a single well written speech then during the ring crisis goes on live and convinces whole ship loads of terrified people to make the right choice. think the only violent thing you see her do is smash someone on the back to stop them killing another person. The expanse is a great example of well written female characters, hell the main male character actually is kinda eclipsed by all the others on the ship,who had fantastic back stories well written story and some of the best line. he isn't that man, I am. shivers. bar the pilot who turned out to be a scumbag in real life.
Yeah seems like Sci - fi writers respect women more.
This comparison is just amazing. Good job with video, love it.
Atomic Blonde is criminally underrated. People usually throw that phrase around but in this case, it really flew under the radar when it should have exploded the way the first John Wick did. From the gritty, realistic choreography to the kickass 80s soundtrack it was a perfect film with a perfect protagonist. To this day I'm bitter about the fact that there's no talk of a sequel. Wtf.
OMG same! I fully expected to be its own action series. A true pity.
@@fatalblue Yes! They totally set it up to be a series and yet nothing. It's been 84 years :(
It’s the perfect movie.
Me too. Atomic Blonde 2 would be something I’d watch. At least there’s The Old Guard 2 upcoming.
Honestly, I hate that the movie didn't get all the love it deserved, but that ensured it went down as a standalone legend, no chances of a sequel ruining it
‘Unstoppable emotionless assholes.’
I love that. Great video.
Honestly, they did native americans dirty by making such a bad movie. Like, native americans could have had a movie that they could point to as being a great product of their culture, but instead, they just have a movie that no one liked as a movie itself. A native american version of Daredevil could've been so sick, and even the sequence at 0:32 was sick but a movie is more than just its action scenes.
I will never get tired of hearing you say in each of your videos:
"But why is it well written?
&
"But why is it terribly written?"
They're officially your iconic quotes, man.
As The Critical Drinker pointed out, one reason why modern movies are bad is: they are written by children. (Well, by people who have the mentality and writing skills of the average child.) Not to insult children, but patience, perspective and good judgment are qualities associated with maturity, and they are important ingredients for writing realistic stories.
Wow.
I wanna see Atomic Blonde now.
Looks like a damn good film. Bummer I didn't get to see it on theaters.
That and hopefully you’ve seen Mad Max if not then do so please. Charlize Theron’s range in portraying strong, well-written women is greatly admirable.
oh yes.... i toldmy dad how kickass it was and he doubted it, later he walked out of his office space and toldme that was the baddest woman to have ever kicked ass since lucy lawless as xena
17:35 lets compare that to John Wick, who’s stealth in the Red Circle is broken by him being spotted and failing to take out the spotter quickly and quitely, ultimately breaking through a window.
I totally agree, and it applies also to men protagonists, i personnaly always prefered a protagonist with flaws/weaknesses to overcome rather than hacking and slashing through hords of baddies like butter.
Agreed, they just make for more interesting characters to watch, as well as, root for. It shows they're just as human as all of us; which it seems a lot of writers in Hollywood forget to do, show the character's humanity.
Except it’s believable for a lot of really strong men to hack and slash like Prime Arnold for example. In Disney, you have 130lb women that can throw 200lb men
@@Anon-qp3ktSo then get muscular women to play roles. Beauty standards are women have to be built like some twigs who've never picked up or even looked at a dumbbell in their lives yet can pick up an entire truck. It's the male gaze bleeding into strong women when in reality you're just giving sexism exactly what it wants
@@Anon-qp3ktthis is biased, theres shit like bones, you need a sword from MGRR to do that effortlessly
Now I know why Echo made me mad, I really tried to like it but it so bad.
I feel like stating it that way misses the point. They can't write men any better either, i feel. It's what happens if you are too focused on the myriad things that you DON'T want to write to avoid criticism (all sorts off, this isn't a "but woke culture" complaint particularly). It's characters by committee, a mishmash of compromise avoiding the consequences of writing a proper person.
Maybe because it’s disney and they don’t even try with the writing and just shit out a quota for these shows..
You know, this makes a lot of sense to why the writers strike wanted quotas on how many writers would be in the room per TV show/movie. They wanted like 20 writers! That's exactly what you said, a committee, and they're writing these characters like that.
Now we know why they're so...boring and inoffensive.
It's not art or entertainment Anymore it's just propoganda now
you're (sadly) right
but
1) it shows more with female characters
2) they literally sell their shit on that "strong female character"
@@KaosKrusher I disagree with 1). Just because we are entirely used to it with male characters while the other is now an issue of "writing female characters different than before" doesn't mean it "shows" more. And re 2) strong female characters, not strong writing of female characters. The "strong females" are now as badly written as the strong men. For the same reason. My point is making that distinction clouds the underlying problem. Which is half in the expectation, and half what it means to write "for the mass market".
Thanks, really enjoyed your scene analysis!
This highlights a issue in the mcu that was present even before Phase 4; the fight choreography especially with the villain's security guards/goons/minions. The fight choreographers make most or all of them stupid that there are so many instances in the MCU where goons just run at the main character just to be taken down in one or two hits. Or sometimes they have a gun but they either heavily delay the firing or and don't shoot at all. Or some of them just stand there stunned like they're in a video game. That's probably why one on one fights tend to be better because they have more care put into them
It's like... Netflix Daredevil series (Long single-take fight scenes, clearly illuminated) versus Iron Fist (Five jump cuts to throw one punch, everything's in the dark and close up, you have no idea what's going on).
At this point I'm fairly sure an AI image generate and ChatGPT could squeeze out a narrated slideshow of a new Marvel series and it would be better than what we're seeing here.
Fight scenes were better and more thought out in early MCU. The elevator scene in captain America is still one of the best fight scenes in the MCU. The goons nearly got cap beat.
To be fair that original daredevil hallway fight had badguys just shooting around and over matt head. They tried it make it look like recoil and it just looks bad.
Thats a flaw of all action that isn't intended to be ultra realistic though. The only thing that has really fooled me was Wick 1, which is ultra grounded ultra serious
@@yeayohaha -- I loved that scene when I watched it the first time, but (as Ryan George points out in the Pitch Meeting), shouldn't the Hydra agents have had more lethal weapons with them, given that it was a coordinated plan to kill a super-soldier?
"How can you have stakes if you know they will never fail. There is nothing to be gained from a perfect character."
Although I've rewrote part of one of the last things you've said in this, I think that it has a great lesson for any storyteller. I think just hearing it will be something to help me in my own writing. Though I had an understanding of it before, I think your words solidified it better.
You know… watching Charlize Theron’s fight scene in Atomic Blonde with their attention to detail on showing her quick wit, bruised and battered body, and how much fighting is actually taking a toll on her, reminds me of another action movie: The Long Kiss Goodnight with Geena Davis and Samuel L. Jackson. Geena Davis’s character was also a well trained spy but she wasn’t unreasonably strong. In multiple fight scenes, she appeared to be just two steps away from actually dying despite coming out on top. There is even a scene after a particularly brutal fight where she just… stops and drops. Despite knowing she’s supposed to be the protagonist… there is a moment where you think she’s going to die and when she does get up… she doesn’t suddenly seem better despite the obvious beating she took; she limps, can’t see out of one eye, barely can move her hands and fingers.
The lead female protagonists of these movies are exactly what audiences want to see, particularly women. We don’t want to see them not struggle despite the odds that are stacked against them, we don’t want to see them remain picture perfect no matter how long you know a fight took, and even when they are well trained fighters, it is nice when they are still portrayed as human beings who can be hurt! Do they really believe audiences is going to buy a young woman who looks barely out of her late teens who’s supposedly blind and deaf (glad to know that they refused to actually show how she worked around those disabilities) beat down grown men twice her age without really getting a beat down? Come on Hollywood… you used to actually care about how characters were written. Sure, sometimes you gave us really bad characters… but we’ve had some memorable ones too. Is it that hard to actually write women?
Daredevil Choreography was actually GOAT, because you can feel the impact of hits both from Matt and the goons. Everyone has an actual stamina bar where they become slower and more tired the longer a fight goes on. Atomic Blonde was this but ten fold. Beautiful is what its fight choreography can be called.
I knew Disney could not maintain how good Daredevil was.
The Old Boy homage scene in Daredevil is the scene that absolutely hooked me on the show. Well that and the door slamming scene..
they look the same they just dont make you care about maya at all
@@ryank9782 naur
@@ryank9782 lmao what. they are not even in the same universe let alone looking the same
"The latest batch of eye cancer" had me dying 🤣 Thanks for watching these so we don't have to! Hope to see you on the open bar again soon!!
Never seen the movie, but from this scene alone I fucking love atomic blonde gunning for the joints to make the fight easier for her and to even out the playing field. Also, her and her opponents also taking damage is fucking impressive to see because you can see the desperation and tenacity the two sides have and actually makes you worry for the mc
Also at 7:10 you can see that when a grown man gets shot in the eye he dies.
This is known as common sense, echo writers could learn a thing or two from that.
lmaoooo
Not as uncommon as you think.
There are stories of people getting shot in the head and calling 9-11.
One guy got shot in between the eyes and posted a selfie. Another guy got shot in the head with an ak47 and posted it on Facebook live.
😂....yo the way I was so dissappointed when kingpin was still alive after being shot in the face.
This happened in the comics and King Pin survived and was blinded for a bit while recover.
Not defending anybody, but that's just what happened in the source material they're adapting.
It's still a comic book show after all.
@@toyoseries I just want him to be unalived already. Man is getting on my nerves since Daredevil season one.
Kate Bishop was good in Hawkeye I think, pretty on point for her comic iteration. Definitely with her I liked that despite a lot of Kate’s training she still made a lot of mistakes. And that some of those mistakes even came from the fact that shes a rich kid. Even in the final fight with Kingpin she was losing and getting her ass kicked because Kingpin is huge and only survived by setting off all her arrows. Oh! And setting off the arrows with the move we watch her learn from Clint earlier too. And I liked that she had cuts and bruises and obvious pains to deal with.
For every woman that these movies and shows get wrong there's at least one they get right. Doesn't stop clout farming weirdos from framing countless videos as if Disney can't write great female characters. And for all of the noise a lot of people don't realize everything isn't written specifically for them
I love watching your videos. They are a fun and entertaining way to learn what not to do when writing.
That you do these side-by-side comparisons are what makes your videos so great - you don't simply show/tell us what was wrong, but also how someone else did it right, thus not only making it easier for folks to understand, but also more difficult for them to defend the bad version - keep up the great work!
I love how Marvel hires actresses with 1 facial expression then blames the criticism of their acting on sexism.
THIS
Given the rest of the issues with the series, I'd place more blame on bad direction; even the best actors can suck under a clueless director.
@@MsIvalane True, but is it too much to ask for them to suck with more than 1 expression?
And that 1 facial expression is usually angry 😂
@@bararobberbaron859
This is largely how I felt about Sasha Calle in The Flash.
3:49 You earned my thumbs-up when I spotted the first glimpse of THAT one fight scene in Atomic Blonde, knowing you would praise it. It's the best fight scene I've ever watched in television! It's gritty, it looks painful, people are grunting and get exhausted and discoordinated from their wounds and pounding skulls. It's legitimately Perfection. It's also a little unfair to pick that particular scene because everything else WILL look lackluster in comparison lol Anyways, enjoy my thumbs-up :)
Great comparison. Another good example is from the movie "Peppermint", with Jennifer Garner. In that movie she trained in MMA, weapons and tactics, the whole shebang, in order to avenge the murder of her family... The movie is well grounded when it came down to having her fight 1 on 1 against a guy, pretty solid in that department. Even with her knowledge, she struggled to fight of just one guy, so she had rely on cunning instead, to compensate. Too bad that movie flew under the radar.
I’ll have to check it out along with Atomic Blonde! I actually heard they’re making a Peppermint 2.
Hell yeah 👍
Jennifer Garner also had 5 seasons in Alias as a spy so knows her way around an action scene. Speaking of Alias, that's another great example of a well written female led character who relies on her training, her allies, and her intelligence to overcome her opponents, and a lot of the time she loses.
@@ab-gail Oh, I searched that and yeah, apparently they're talking about making a second one due to the fact that the movie is getting a lot of views on Netflix all of a sudden. Nice!
@@txinterceptor8428 That show was really good, along with Dark Angel, with Jessica Alba.
Thank god people are talking about Atomic Blonde. I saw that movie day one and it's in my top 10 favorites. THAT'S how you do a female lead action film. Love Charlize, did her own stunts, too.
I met the main henchmen/stuntman from Atomic Blonde because he’s a customer at my cafe, and he talks so highly of Charlize Theron and that fight specifically ❤
the guy who played as the man who tanked 6 stabs?
The worst of that "fight" scene was dying by a leather jacket slap ;p
That's the kind of quality fight choreography 80 million bucks buys you these days... Inflation...
Anywho, I've actually seen worse! There was some kind of very cheaply made B grade horror movie I watched decades ago where the monsters were very visibly made out of papier-mache, and where one of the monsters just died and fell to the ground mid assault, just as it was lunging towards the protagonist. I paused it on my VCR and stepped through it frame by frame to see what hit it, and there was nothing. Not even a leather jacket slap. It just died.
In defense of that movie it can't have cost more than 80 bucks to make.
@@mikael.wilhelm That reminds me of the "sweded Jurassic Park" video, in which the dinosaurs were cardboard cutouts.
This was an incredibly well thought out comparison. Outstanding. This channel doesn't get nearly enough recognition.
I didn't expect to actually finish all 25 minutes, well done.
It has been one of the stranger things in my experience of media watching opinion on Atomic Blonde transform over time. When it came out, it was shredded for being unrealistic and ridiculous.
But now, in the era of DIsney's perpetually unending bullshit, suddenly Atomic Blonde no longer looks bad, it looks like a paragon of the material it was presenting.
What the fuck is happening to this world
woke politics and writers who just don't care for what they are writing for. Compare this to one piece or the expanse and its start just how bad modern writers are.
This is because Atomic Blonde was compared to all the other action movies that came along during its time and where most, if not all, action movies had male leads in them.
Now that we have more action movies with women leads in them thanks to Disney, it's (Atomic Blonde) being compared to them now.
In this regard, we can thank Disney for making such low standards in women action movies that action movies like Atomic Blonde now shine.
It's always happened. People change their mind. Everyone spat on the Prequels for Star Wars, and now that they've seen the sequels, they think that the Prequels aren't so bad after all 😅😂 also, those too young to voice their opinion then are doing it now
@@gregorturner9421 Bullshit, you weirdos just celebrate anything that's old enough to not be current. Then you turn around and tell everyone how great things no one liked at the time are. The same thing is happening in Star Wars. You're never going to convince anyone who didn't get a fucking lobotomy that the prequels were good.
Opinions changing on films over time is not a new thing at all
The large henchwoman's inclusion is so transparent as a mechanic to allow Maya's escape, and yet it STILL doesn't add up. She sees Maya's detached foot and appears confused/disgusted..? So she then decides to... give it back to Maya, instead of I don't know, throwing it away if she finds it so pathetic, or leaving it right there on the rink, or even destroying it in front of Maya. But no... they characterize her as being ableist just to add to her reprehensibility as a kidnapper (okay..), but then they don't even follow through with that. She's so dumb she takes an action that outright contradicts essentially the only thing we know about her perspective; she aids the person she's belittling.
And that's all paired with the other two nappers deciding to lock the notorious hitwoman in a tool shed. And not shooting her in the head as she approaches them threateningly.
Ableist is that what those woke people are going for 🙄
well despite they tell her she is needed to be alive in the process.
i think its stupid to return the leg
Some really great points made in this one
The Atomic Blonde stairway fight is one of my favorite cinematic fight scenes of all time. Second only to the Shu Lien vs Jen Yu fight in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. It's cinematography, adherence to realism, acting and pacing are all top-notch. It's visceral in the same way that the fights in the original Bourne Identity were. Easily one of Charlize Theron's best (and most underappreciated) physical roles aside from Fury Road.
And the choice to make it a "one-take" was very smart.
It reminds me a great deal of Tony Jaa's fight on the pagoda stairs in The Protector...only going down instead of up.
I also like the fact that if that debris had not been on the floor, from which she picked up a nail or something, she probably would have succumbed to suffocation from having her neck squeezed. Despite all her skill and effort, luck also played a hand.
I was really suprised seeing the scene from Daredevil in the beggining and bursted out in laughter after I saw the Echo fight, I would love to see you talk about it some more
I didn't watch the show, but I have watched the entire scene when Echo fights DD in her show. It is sooo bad. Like awkward, bad. I feel bad for Charlie Cox having to be in this poor excuse of a show.
It wasn't even that bad.
No need to be that exaggerated.
There’s also a conversation about the decline of stunt and fight choreography. Atomic Blonde was directed by a professional stuntman.
I’d be curious about your thoughts on ‘Fall Guy’ which is the latest film directed by him and hear what you thought of the fights :)
I like that Atomic Blonde shows that hitmen who likely have a higher pain tolerance, who know they're bleeding out, might not just go down right away. After that gut shot and those stab wounds, each man knew he was going to die. And while now drastically weakened, this was now evidently personal enough that they decided she was going down with them if they could help it.
Netflix's Daredevil has a similar philosophy, even with less severe injuries. Often in Daredevil, even after beating the living hell out of his opponents, they get back up. They don't just go to sleep upon being lightly tapped on the head. While usually visibly weakened from their injuries, criminal henchmen in Daredevil demonstrate a huge issue with fighting multiple opponents. Often you're so preoccupied with just not getting hit that it can be hard to deal decisive blows. And even if you stun someone or knock them over, if you have to spend the next 10-20 seconds fighting the rest of their gang instead of knocking them out, guess what, that henchman is standing back up and coming back to hit you again. Also, bigger opponents won't just let you knock them over by lightly nudging them with your shoulder, or take slow swipes out you. In fights, bigger opponents know their bulk is an asset and they use it often by grappling you, which if you are smaller and weaker is extremely difficult to break out of and if you're fighting multiple opponents, means they can now attack you unopposed.
Season 1 of Daredevil does the best job of this imo, because it makes it clear that Matt is getting seriously hurt in most of his big fights, even if he wins. That's why upon realising Kingpin has a tailor who can use a material to deflects a knife slash with ease, Daredevil goes to the guy hoping to get a full outfit made from the stuff. Until then, his vigilante costume was from random stuff he bought on eBay. I'm not just saying that because it was tacky, Daredevil literally tells someone he got most of his first Season 1 outfit from eBay. He's not one of those common comic millionaire vigilantes who can have a custom made flexible Kevlar things they always supposedly wear. He instead gets lucky and realises a millionaire he's investigating DOES have access to that sort of equipment and takes advantage.
Also they show daredevil's disability being a double edged sword. He conveniently fights in the cover of night were he would have the advantage. But smart apponents like the punisher and bullseye take advantage of his weakness. In echo the hearing disability and amputated leg is treated as normal.
In the comics she has a great explanation about why she is a badass fighter. To compensate for the loss of hearing she has amazing vision and can memorize anything she sees. She has spent her life memorizing the moves of the most amazing fighters in history. Can't believe they turned that into some magic power at the end, instead of it being the reason she is a badass.
Very awesome video! Thanks!
I think what many (for eg. Disney) don't seem to understand when it comes to writing/directing a fight scene that it not only should be cool to look at but also have ALL the involved characters make smart decisions in the fight, sure there can be a bad choice made but it has the consequence of getting hurt or even killed
Disney do understand what it takes to make great characters, they've been doing it for decades, but recently they've lost their way, you have to wonder what changed?
They need more of the actors to speak out against this tripe.
And lose their career like Katherine Hiegl who spoke out against the bad writing she was getting? Sure
Look at the box office gross numbers. Disney is in 22nd place with its highest grossing movie, Soul, bringing in just $17,467 yesterday. Disney had huge clout that no actor would dare speak against last year. It was Harvey Mousestein's casting couch or nothing. That glory is gone.
A lot of directors have complained about super hero fatigue and the death of the art of cinema, actors don’t really complain about it though because these films pay well, and unlike directors, they usually can’t create their own multi million dollar film
@@phabiorules
A good superhero movie will still draw an audience.
The difference now is that you can't just expect people to turn up for bad superhero movies.
@@roarbertbearatheon8565 you stay silent and the whole ship is gonna go down and your career with it. But sure, I guess it’s better to die on your knees than die standing.
Maya is like Player with cheat code on easy mode
man, 25min flew by and I hope you take it as a compliment that it is. Compelling arguments that are hard to refute but the scene to scene comparison that you did- describing how good characters are written respecting their limitations but shown to smartly adapt to overcome the same was what makes this a mindful full-bodied critique. I mean..Whoever heard of people loving and rooting for the Underdog, right? Or, loving a complex character that keeps battling their demons with sheer will; falls down, loses, learns, gets up and keeps going... That's some serious gourmet shit. Really well put together video!
Atomic Blonde demonstrates what a great actor can do, and Charlize Theron is arguably the most talented actress Hollywood has ever had. Pay close attention to the look on her face just before the car goes into the river, she looks out of it, like she's trapped in some nightmare and barely keeping it together. She's also slim woman in life but for the movie she actually tones up to add a layer of realism to her part, unlike Alaqua Cox who is clearly out of shape and spends the entire series walking around with the same expression. As I've been saying all the long, it's not just the writing that's terrible, it's also the acting. If you pay peanuts you'll get monkeys. Disney should spend less on marketing and more on talent.
Theron is the most talented actress Hollywood ever had 😂😂😂😂😂 I'm dying 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think they are both bad, with Theron being slightly better (in terms of action, acting wise obviously Theron is much better) The fact of the matter is we won't get a good female fight scenes for a long time because the women simply have no idea hot to throw a punch and you need to suspend too much disbelief to accept that a twig of a woman like Theron would be able to take on all these men. You'd need an actor that has been training combat sports for many years and understands the art of it to get a good fight scene. Otherwise you get what you have in Atomic blonde, which is obviously fake fights that (for me) take you out of the movie, the choreography is great, the execution is terrible. Even male actors struggle with making action good, women have no chance, maybe in 10-20 years things will have improved enough, but for now...nah. All this shit just makes me appreciate Jackie Chan so much more, he and his team were simply way better than anyone even now.
@XekTOr89 Gena Carano would be much more believable. Problem is that the woman who can fight can't act 😂
@@thepool3974you seen her in monster?
Diversity Inclusion Stupidity Neutered EverYthing.
Completely agree, Disney writers should take some pointers from blue eye samurai writers, they know how to write a compelling story and characters.
i really would love if you did a breakdown and deep dive of blue eye samurai. i think that’s another fantastic example of a well written female character that isn’t just one-note “strong” but is complex and flawed
No.. Blue Eyed Sam - she takes WAY too much damage to still function.
YESSS! A review on my favourite lady spy character and her movie! Although the action scenes are always overly packed with some plot armor here and there, the brutality is just soo well made! I wish a second movie was in the makings...
Brilliant video. It’s so great to see someone talk about how fantastic Atomic Blonde is.
I've always said the best action heroes are NOT the ones that shoot constantly and always hit their targets, dodging fire. No, it's the ones that can take a blow, get messed up and keep going. From Mad Max to Hardcore Henry to Netflix's own Daredevil.. that's what made it great. John Wick gets this - he gets the crap knocked out of him in those films and that's why he's awesome and not just another shooty guy.
Invincible bullet dodging is the thing the bad guys do to make it more impressive when the almost normal human beats them.
Even the later Resident Evil games knew that much.
Thanks for cluing me in on "Atomic Blonde"!
24:47 THANK YOU for this gabi is such a compelling chrctrs yet the fandom hates to acknowledge it
Gina Carano has a pretty good fight scene in Haywire. She’s fighting a guy in a hotel room, but she’s just about managing to fend him off while she’s desperately looking around for an edge. Very tense and believable.
Shame on Disney and all of Hollywood they cancelled her all because Gina didn't want to put her pronouns in her Twitter/X bio and had a completely different political opinion. Gina is tough but also a kind and down to Earth gal.
@@liamphibia No, it was because she trivialized the Holocaust, actually.
Gina Carano is also a former MMA fighter and built like an F150, so she’s one of the few actresses who can actually look convincing beating up a 6-foot, 200-pound guy.
@@liamphibiaI think it was more that she compared liberals to Nazis, and republicans to the victims of the holocaust than not wanting to put pronouns in her bio…
@@phabiorules
That's bullshit.
The quote said nothing about Republicans and Democrats, but only that the holocaust didn't start with camps, but with people allowing others to tell them who to hate.
The fact that Democrats identified themselves with the Nazis in that situation says more about them than it does about Gina Carano.
15:02 Correct me if I’m wrong but, in the comics she can read body language and lips perfectly, right? So she doesn’t need to sign or be signed at because she can just read someone’s lips. So the only reason that someone has to sign at her or she signs back is basically just for representation sake because irl deaf people use sign language. Because someone waving their arms around to sign is gonna be wayyyy more noticeable when you’re trying to secretly communicate than just mouthing the words
this is modern marvel writers we're talking about here
they refuse to acknowledge crucial details like that and just make the characters much worse than they needed to be
This is not just female characters. Badly choreographed fights, concealed by darkness and flashing lights, are just becoming the norm.