Subscribe to our clips channel: th-cam.com/channels/5fdyC4LxyyYv8Am6nDrkmg.html Timestamps I think you’ll love: (00:10:59) Should people who resistance train eat 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (2.2 g/kg)? (00:12:39) Are there benefits to consuming more than 1.2-1.6 g/kg of protein? (00:14:58) Should you alter your protein intake when dieting for weight loss? (00:20:59) Why anabolic resistance could be the result of reduced physical activity (00:22:45) How to calculate your protein requirement if you’re overweight (00:33:05) Whether consuming one large dose of protein (e.g., 100g) is the same as consuming several smaller doses (e.g., 20g) throughout the day (00:44:41) Tips for gaining muscle mass while practicing time-restricted eating (00:47:07) Should you consume protein before or after resistance training? (00:56:14) Which is better for stimulating muscle protein synthesis: casein or whey protein? (01:05:15) Why animal protein is more effective for hypertrophy - and what to do if you’re eating a plant-based diet (01:08:15) Why vegans and vegetarians should consider supplementing with a combination of plant-based protein powders, such as pea and rice (01:11:47) Which is a better protein supplement: whey protein isolate or concentrate? (01:39:18) How to possibly minimize the detrimental effects of cold water immersion on muscle strength (01:58:57) Does collagen supplementation benefit the skin? Full list of timestamps is in the description. Hope you enjoyed this one :)
I am sorry this has to be said.... WE had in the past media saying things like vitamins just did nothing to the adverse impact on many, to my opinions. Protein? Really you have everyone here thinking low protein or no attention to protein is necessary. Do you not know this conflicts with others you have interviewed. Many of your viewers are probably elderly or close to. Yes protein if you are not exercising does not matter. Did you push him on wether the nitrogen studies were done on heavily exercising subjects? You did quary him on body weight, they were normal weight peoples. Read your comments most think are taking away it does not matter. Take my word on it me in my seventies it matters. Attia is right Philip is right the RDA's are low end. Protein assimilation declines past a certain age which is somewhat variable. You probably did not intend this result but the comments show what it is. Your get protein from your regular diet doctor McDougal just died at the relatively early age of 76. People who live beyond 65 in america their life expectancy is 80 plus, so he died early. The guy had a stroke once before, but it was a congenital thing which occurred more than 50 years prior to his death and had likely not a thing to do with his death.. Know what else he had...a broken leg prior from a fall in a bath. In the bath...know what they means, you know. Sarcopenia and osteopetrosis absent certain things like medical bed rest or other illness they occur both together. Look at him before his death, that is enough. I at the same age as him fell from a ladder working on the second floor roof of a building. Know how many broken bones.....zero. F, all can be like that. I fell in the gym two months ago, as I do balance things, fell to the floor a hard hit...what happened nothing not even any pain. WE can our elderly all be like that I am not a genetic marvel. Low protein is not the way to that. It is so sad they can be fully functional. I am vegan and do protein from plant sourced things. All they need to know is how. Who is next for you Dr Greger? No push back to him as well I guess? Sad
I will add I do vegan for thought ethical reasons not diet. But found in the past you omitted vegan algae sourced equilivent to fish oil. Maybe you changed on that now I have not checked. I do think for strict performance and longevity I think a mediteranian diet model basis is best. I have always felt a little meat is probably best. But for other reasons I will not do that. But collagen. There are no vegan supplements which approximate collagen. But to my study certain aminos and other items may serve a equal purpose when consumed. Reserch it yourself or not. Probably not is my guess as you did not bother to do that for fish oil including algae derived oil.. Yes flax and similar things do not suffice for most. People like me which means almost all the vegans in the Uk are not going to take collagen. So a small bunch but still a bunch would benefit. Yes its benefits seem present. I will not elaborate why bother. I am about full with you fitness and diet influencers as I think many are becoming.
### Key Insights: 1. Protein Requirements and Adaptation: - The body constantly renews muscle tissue at a rate of 1-2% per day. - Traditional protein requirements (0.8g/kg body weight) may not be optimal for everyone. - The body can adapt to different protein intakes, but higher intakes may be beneficial for muscle growth. 2. Muscle Protein Synthesis and Accretion: - Muscle protein synthesis increases after exercise and with higher protein intake. - For resistance training, 1.2-1.6g of protein per kg of body weight can lead to greater muscle mass and strength gains. - Maintaining consistent protein intake is crucial, especially during weight loss periods. 3. Anabolic Resistance and Physical Activity: - Older adults may require higher protein intake due to anabolic resistance. - Physical activity significantly increases sensitivity to food intake and can help overcome anabolic resistance. 4. Protein Distribution and Timing: - Distributing protein intake throughout the day is important for muscle growth. - Each main meal should contain 20-25g of protein for consistent anabolic stimulation. - Pre-sleep protein intake can be beneficial for muscle growth. 5. Exercise and Muscle Growth: - Physical activity is crucial for maintaining lean mass, even more so than protein intake alone. - Two resistance training sessions per week are more important than focusing solely on protein intake. - Exercise increases the body's sensitivity to amino acids, leading to greater protein utilization. 6. Protein Sources and Quality: - While there may be slight differences between whole food protein sources and protein shakes, these differences are likely minimal for overall muscle growth. - Plant-based proteins can be effective when consumed in sufficient quantities and combined to create a complete amino acid profile. 7. Leucine and Muscle Protein Synthesis: - Leucine plays a crucial role in stimulating muscle protein synthesis. - About 2.5g of leucine (found in approximately 20g of protein) triggers a significant increase in muscle protein synthesis. 8. Cold Water Immersion and Muscle Growth: - Cold water immersion immediately after resistance training may hinder muscle growth. - It might be better suited for recovery days or endurance training sessions. 9. Collagen Supplementation: - Collagen supplementation may benefit connective tissues but does not increase muscle protein synthesis. - More research is needed to confirm its effects on skin, joints, and bone health. Conclusion: Dr. Luc Van Loon's insights provide a comprehensive understanding of protein intake, muscle growth, and exercise. While protein intake is crucial for muscle growth, the importance of physical activity cannot be overstated. Optimal protein intake, proper distribution throughout the day, and regular resistance training are key factors in maximizing muscle growth and overall health. However, individual needs may vary, and factors such as age, activity level, and specific health conditions should be considered when determining optimal protein intake and exercise routines. As research in this field continues to evolve, it's clear that a balanced approach combining adequate protein intake, regular exercise, and overall healthy lifestyle habits is essential for maintaining and improving muscle mass and overall health.
Except maybe. “So if someone is trying to limit fat, is wpi or wpc better”? Really? Given the make up of both? Apart from that, great clip. Oh. Also, what was missed re cold therapy was if cold therapy PRIOR to training has any impact, positive or negative.
Without question, the most informative interview on protein I have ever seen. Dr. Van Loon certainly inspires confidence. Most knowledgeable expert I've seen. Thanks!
Peter Attia may overstate the necessary amount of protein for maintaining muscle mass as you age, but it was reading his book Outlive that made me aware of the importance of protein. I am a healthy 71 year old that exercises pretty religiously but I had trouble adding any muscle mass. After reading Outlive I started paying attention to how much protein I was consuming. On average it was probably around 60 grams (I weigh 79 kg). This is where I take exception to Loon's comment that if you are energy balanced you are probably consuming enough protein. I definitely wasn't so I do think you need to pay attention to what you eat and not just assume that if you are in energy balance you are eating enough protein.
"if you are energy balanced you are probably consuming enough protein" - you can obtain energy balance through different macronutrient ratios. I weigh 78 kg and my intake varies between 80 and 100 g/day, without supplements; in caloric balance. This is possible due to regulary consuming legumes (peas, lentils, beans of various types) - at least one such meal a day, containing 250-300 g of cooked legumes. I eat meat 2-3 times a week. There were years when I only ate meat once a week (not recommending it).
I am in the same age range and weight train do HIT and aerobics at least once a week on average working out five or four days per week. I found a problem with apparent muscle mass despite exercise about around 65. I researched it added protein and my response was as if I was on steroids. No hanging skin the muscle again filled it out. This is the real of it from a simple AI search. I could elaborate as I have studied the issue and much exists to substantiate this.. " According to the National Academy of Medicine, the RDA for adults aged 65 and older is approximately 0.45 to 0.55 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily. This translates to about 68 to 83 grams of protein per day for a 150-pound person. Despite this recommendation, research shows that roughly 50% of women and 30% of men over the age of 71 fall short of this RDA, often consuming less than 54 grams per day. If you do not exercise which now is simply not done, all elderly have to exercise I expect his comment is true. WE all have to exercise it is widely seen by study as the one most important factor affecting longevity. It may be daily activity if you live in a more natural environment walking gardening large plots carrying water fishing and such. Most of us simply do not live those type places so we must exercise. And those protein amounts do not suffice to maintain muscle mass. I hear these things stated and think this is almost criminal. Sarcopenia and osteoporosis run hand and hand and if a fall causes a broken hip, your life expectancy has suddenly immediately instantly declined. It is absolutely necessary to maintain muscle mass as much as possible.
Wait. Isn't Peter Attia's docet 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram or 1 gram per pound? In your case, that would be 174 grams daily or slightly more if your goal is to increase muscle mass, sir.
This is such an insightful conversation, thank you!. Dr Van Loon is so clear in explanations, so detailed and so passionate, I am grateful he is open for being a guests in the podcasts, having access to his mind and knowledge is a privilege.
Appreciated this interview on protein Rhonda. Meal prepping without being able to tolerate pea, rice source of protein mix has required a reset of thinking for 60+ diet to incorporating hydrolysed collagen. Great conversation and many thanks to Dr Luc Van Loon for being so candid. 😊😊😊
Awesome interview. The first time I heard a leading protein researcher bridge the gap between high protein advocates and Valter Longo. Deserves a lot more attention because they both can be right.
Dr. Patrick thank you very much! I am very grateful I found you. Your videos and contents continue to inspire me to spread the importance of ongoing quest for knowledge for health span and life span. Health is wealth. I listened and watched Dr. Loon but didn’t hear anything about the amount of protein necessary for bone metabolism. I have osteoporosis, have been reversing it through diet and exercise. There are lots of conflicting information out there on how much protein we need to increase bone mineral density and improve bone quality. Thank you! I tell everyone interested about you !
This is a wonderful interview. A voice of sanity in an insane world focused on cramped manliness and self-declared 'athletes'. It largely brings me back to what I learned in med school, 45 years ago.
It's very clear. We are all uniquely different and will not have the same experience. It's also clear that just because I was a athlete long ago doesn't mean I can expect to get back to that condition anytime soon staring with my curent metabolic health, poor sleep, hormone and thyroid issues and age.
I liked it very much! Doing OMAD and training almost every day looks possible without loosing muscle. Many others preach right now, that Keto, OMAD is not good and we should have 3-4 meals with protein, but this studies show, that it is not the case.
One of the things I didn’t see in this video was how excess protein, specifically branch chain amino acids, contributes to methylation. Methylation of DNA at promoter regions and cpg islands deactivates genes. Androgenic genes are under regulation of a methylation promoter. When methylated, androgenic genes and androgenic signaling is down regulated. I recently stopped consuming bcaa’s and whey protein and focusing much more on meat, eggs and cottage cheese, food which are lower in bcaas. Based off the idea that excess bcaas can contribute to methylation and turn off androgenic genes. I have gotten great results and this is inline with Dr Luc Van Loons statement that muscles can still grow on .8 grams of protein/ Gram of body weight per day. If anyone has anything to add I would like to hear your insight
Wow, questions I always wanted to ask someone like Dr Luc, and the corresponding comprehensive answers. So much, for me, new information!!! Just awesome!
Excellent interview. Dr van Loon is always very informative. I think finally this interviews settles for me the issue of protein intake.N=1 experiment: I went from a very restrictive WFPB diet for 5 years (reference: 50F , 169cm, 53Kg on WFPB vegan diet 40-50g /day protein, change made due to address OA which, of course, led me to drastically reduce exercise due to chronic pain and restrictions) to a WFPB diet more flexible meaning eating animal product 2-4 small portions per week ( 60-80g/day ) for the past 2 years. But I also exercise much more now ( new hip!) for the past 2 years and it seems to me that the biggest difference in strength and muscle definition has been provided to me by exercise. In summary, exercise triumph all the protein obsessions in the world.
To get optimal muscle mass increase or retention necessary amounts of protein must be consumed. Our protein assimilation capability declines with age. Exercise is great and helps all things but best is best necessary protein provides a best response to it. I am vegan have been for around 35 years but supplement vegan Lucien and pay attention to protein amounts as I am in my seventies
This is one of the best guests Rhonda has interviewed and there’s a lot of meaningful content here. I’ll say she really wants to believe cold water immersion is a miracle treatment. Seems like there are many other things we could prioritize before cold water immersion that offer greater benefits.
Good interview/talk. In essence Dr. Luc Van Loon confirmes, regular training is waaaay more important than hormones and proteins. In contrast, consuming more protein makes your body "addicted" to it or be inefficient with it. I recently reread the last few chapters of "how not to age" where the theme of a little less protein is actually good for healthspan is thematised in depth.
Sarcopenia was not recognized until fairly recently the last five years or so in study to be a very real limiter to lifespan. Most of the high protein being bad for you was related to the IGF-1 findings on higher protein amounts stimulated it, and then providing incitement for some hormone dependent cancers. Which is fact. But what is also fact is those IGF=1 longevity studies were performed on Uk peoples the very largest one on american peoples. Guess what........... they have results based upon animal proteins as statistically few americans and Uk peoples get their protein by any majority from plants. Animal protein in higher amounts has been shown in multiple studies to be a limiter to longevity. Plant protein no. Even soy. Higher plant protein amounts has not been found to be a longevity limiter by any peer reviewed published study. Animal protein certainly.
A minor note but have you not noticed everyone ages despite all anyone may do and as well all die. Point is you are being sold a impossible thing by title. Which may lead people to question this, or not. Are we so used to being lied to we do not even notice anymore?
@@ronhumphreys3762 Good points, but Dr. Michael Greger is generally a advocate for plant based. So in essence eat mainly plants and get your protein from them is baseline. Also, its way easier to not overeat on plant protein in the first place. (Like you said ;) ) Sorry, but your second comment, I do not agree at all. Most of the longevity Scientists tend to communicate some form of: You have to die, get old and be miserable is a backwards and old way of thinking. Much like back then cigarettes were healthy, or milk etc. Just look at the "Dont die" movement started by Bryan Johnson. In a lifespan affected by a lot of unhealthy habits, you can die from cancer as soon as 40. On the other hand, you can make it to 100< and still be able to do "all" of your choires on your own, still live your Ikigai and love life. Please leave behind the "you have to die" way of thinking. Certainly, everyone can and likely will die. But you have soo many more great and marvelous years in front of you. The human is so much more than 20-30 young years of life.
@@ronhumphreys3762 On your first comment I agree. That is what Dr. Michael Greger communicated to the public. And thats what I wrote. On the second I completely disagree. Everyone has to die "and that is good" is a obsolete way of thinking. There are a lot of movements, like the "Dont die" movement of Bryan Johnson. Many leading scientists and communicators like David Sinclair are also going in that direction. What is "natural" gets challanged every now and then. Dont cling to something that was. At some point smoking was healthy, and to some extent animal or rather cows milk still is claimed healthy etc. Find your Ikigai. With meaning you dont want to die before 100. There are many good years to come.
Those observational studies don't measure the quality of the food. Luc points out that it's the excess consumption that exercise would burn that leads to health issues that affect longevity. Regions with the most centenarians eat mostly plants, but they nearly all include small amounts of meat and seafood. The people in those regions are active all day long. They eat less meat because they are poorer. There is no study I know of where the animal eaten was pure red meat with no fat or marbling, like buffalo meat, so we don't yet have enough data to say it's the plant-only diet that's responsible for the longevity. A plant-based diet is often a lower-calorie diet that, combined with exercise, may be the main catalyst for nurtured longevity, whether it be plant or meat-based.
It's interesting how I have been living by the principle of antifragility, adaptation, after reading Nassim Taleb book, but as Taleb wrote, it is possible to understand a principle but the sometimes overlook applying it to particularities. I totally did this when it came to the amount of protein, never applying that also the mechanism of muscle repair and building also adapts to higher/lower protein intake. This interview has been very helpful.
Ronda when are you going to address the intermittent fasting critique. You are strong proponent of this diet. Time to meet the critique in regards to heart problems etc.
I would be happy to watch a detailed video about Inositol. There are few videos about this supplement. I have been using this supplement to help with my sleep and I am really impressed with its effectiveness. But I would like to know about its use for long periods and its real safety.
Wow...I though you can will make another video on protein that will top the interview with Dr Stuart Philip. This one is up there. Thanks you both for sharing your knowledge. I will rerun this soon.
Philip by my read seems to directly contradict many of this fellows claims. My money is on Philip. This guy is just off base... "According to the National Academy of Medicine, the RDA for adults aged 65 and older is approximately 0.45 to 0.55 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily. This translates to about 68 to 83 grams of protein per day for a 150-pound person. Despite this recommendation, research shows that roughly 50% of women and 30% of men over the age of 71 fall short of this RDA, often consuming less than 54 grams per day." Sound like they are getting enough from their regular diet? Or All the recommendations are to high then? Multiple studies provided that answer.
Progressive resistance training at a high enough load is necessary for hypertrophy. The one thing they're not hitting on in this conversation is the different types of proteins animal compared to plant compared to essential amino acids. Each person based on their individual genetic type is enabled to digest and break down and utilize different types of proteins and they need different types of proteins.
There aren't any studies that have looked at cold exposure before resistance training on gains in strength or muscle mass. I would hesitate to say that doing it before hand would have the same negative effects, but I can't say for certain. However, cold exposure prior to exercise may have benefits related to alertness or performance. We have an entire page dedicated to cold exposure on our website that you might find useful! www.foundmyfitness.com/topics/cold-exposure-therapy
@@FoundMyFitnessthanks for the reply. There’s a theory that it can increase testosterone levels doing it this way and also, the hypoxic effect of at least the initial part of the training, where the muscle isn’t getting the nutrients it usually would but then overcompensates once it catches up. Much like the bands that are used in gyms to restrict blood flow while training specific body parts. Would be a great test to do I think. 🙏
I would be very happy to see a video of yours about Inositol. There is still very little information available about this supplement on TH-cam. I am using it and it seems to be helping my sleep both in duration and quality. However, I would like to know the safety profile of this supplement and the correct dosage. Thanks!
Great video, very interesting. Many thanks. I practice restricting time eating (eating 2 meals a day: 13.30 and 19:00). I am struggling, with 2 meals a day, to reach the protein intake requirement needed considering that I exercise every day. I would like to avoid supplements. Any suggestion? Many thanks in advance.
Hello,I am 42 years old, 60 kg (11% bodyfat) and I do regular 4-5 weekly resistance training and eat about 2,2g/kg protein (mainly high quality) in 3-4 meals (4 is ideal to me). As I am "only" 60 kg it is about 135 g protein and with 4 meals it is "only" 30-35g (and I count it from all protein sources). Even with high quality protein it barely reaches 2,5g leucine trashold. Should I worry and eat protein only 3 times for 40-45g? I still eat lot of protein if I ate 1,6g/kg this question would be even more relevant. I can eat more protein (and sometimes it reaches 170-180g) but wanted to make it more flexible (keep it balanced meal) but dont want to miss all my MPS with that distribution - especially in my muscle gain phase. Dr. Luc speaks about only 20g to reach trashold but other Doctors said 2,5-3g leucine which is much more.
Great discussion. My only suggestion coming from a 70'ish year old fart and who lifts 5 hours a week along with about 2.5 hours of cardio, I would be interested in discussing nutrient absorption including the energy demand used in digestion., In other words, as I get older it takes more energy to digest a high protein breakfast and will take away from the energy I need to use working out. I have found through trial and error that I can drink about 8 oz or raw milk and eat about 2 oz of mixed nuts for breakfast and then have my larger recovery meal after my workout, I find my energy better with a lower food load several hours before workout, and my recovery much better with a larger high protein dinner afterward. I don't know if other old folks have this same experience.
As another old fart, I’ve found that I have to wait longer to workout after a high protein breakfast than I used to or my performance will suffer. I still have the high protein breakfast first but it seems that I should try what you are doing.
I am in my seventies and find I feel recovered better with a protein sourced meal after my work out. Before never. It leaves me sluggish and unable to perform. I can have a carb meal or snack pretty close to work out time, a hour or so before. A higher protein meal no, has to be more like three hours. Anything closer in than a hour seems bad for performance as well protein or carbs. For me that means a no caloric drink such as green tea unsweetened, which I even consume between exercises. But any calories while working out I think is a negative. Part of the exercise effect I think is caloric deprivation and energy source from internal mechanism not eaten or drank things. .It sort of provides a fasting type effect.
I’m another old fart - I like to eat high protein about 2 to 1.5hours before and then some carbs - like bananas, toast and peanut butter - within an hour of my training. Afterwards I’m starving within 30 minutes and eat a balance of protein, fats and carbs
I think as people get older notwithstanding infirmity or or diseases or things that cannot be helped, an older person becomes less inspired and we also think that his or her use is limited, not so much nowadays but I think that was more of the case in “yesteryear “people thought well I’m 50 years old my usefulness is going to diminish and it slowly gets worse and worse so I think one of the main things to have is a goal whether it be call Mark painting, or sculpture or just simply even being abused to others in the community I think that keeps a person young and inspired to live longer and the more Inspired life
"people can adapt to a lower protein diet" HA, sure they can, but what will the consequence be? Will the consequence be more fat on the body from now being more hungry and snacking on more sugers? Will the consequence be losing muscle mass? Being more tired? What does it mean to "adapt" ?
Great video, but a bit ignorant when it came to the vegan conversation. No vegan tries getting their protein from potatoes and lettuce 🤣 they don’t even use beans. They use tofu, seitan, tempeh, edamame. I was vegan for 5 years and ate 200g of protein most days with the help of 3 cereal bars and a shake for 50g of those 200z
Curious what the impact of cold would be prior to resistance training. Presumably with core temperature recovered for exercise, would the cold have the same blunting effect?
Should've asked this explicitly, but I think overall the likelihood of a negative impact from an MPS standpoint is greatly reduced in the scenario based on the mechanisms likely at play.
Is this based on studies on men or women or both? Listened to the latest Huberman and learned that there is a big difference between in what’s optimal for men and women
Longevity study related to protein consumption is typically related to maintaining of muscle mass when one ages. Yes women tend less muscle mass . So optimal protein consumption amounts vary. It does all depend upon exercising or not. No protein amounts are not the same for everyone regardless of muscle mass. No body builders as a one example, grows or maintains muscle on a low protein diet. More muscle requires more protein to be maintained. Saying that would be like saying steroids just don't work it is all placebo. Steroids work and higher protein consumption with higher muscle mass is necessary for Maintenace of amount. Not exercising or not very active it probably is not a issue how much protein you eat. Women by study seem also to consume (american women) less protein as they age. Many being below the recommended amounts after age 65.
What if you take a cold shower or ice bath before strength training? Let's say a couple of hours before. Then you do a couple of hours of training. Would that have the same negative effect?
I think it’s surprises people that protein has been broken down and being rebuilt because psychologically they see outside of their bodies the breaking down of things like buildings and structures and so on and they equate that with something bad or negative but actually breaking something down as in the bodies proteins and cells is a positive thing because it actually provides energy and nutrition for a future growth, just my opinion
While I didn't invite him to speculate on this, it really does seem to follow from what he says the biggest problem is blunting the MPS in response to training (e.g. after) and that by adding some separation your odds of it having a meaningful impact are reduced.
Additionally, please clarify: The podcast has conflicting information. Is the correct protein consumption measurement being discussed grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight, or grams of protein per pound of bodyweight?
Saunas seem to stimulate human growth hormone production which would assist in muscle growth. Cold is a negative directly after training, not proven a deficit before training if the muscles are allowed to warm up to a natural degree first before exercising.
Would either of you good people be able to help my son who is suffering from hyperammonemia? He is currently taking high doses of supplements to control the ammonia, but a LOW protein diet is necessary in order to preserve his brain. We are reaching out to multiple doctors this week as we have been battling this for nearly 2 years. He turns 20 tomorrow and could use some hope.
Some experts say one should eat 2.2 grams per kilogram of body weight (or 1 gram per pound) if their goal is to increase body mass. How is then 0.8 or 1.2 enough?
Why is he talking about 0.8 g protein per kg bodyweight when physiologist state the requirement as essential amino acids per kg lean body weight or better still per unit of metabolizable energy for maintenance, growth or performance. Some of the early studies measuring nitrogen balance were done with closed respiration calorimeters that balanced all forms of nitrogen and energy and the values calculated in humans match those for the pig which is the medical model of the human.
I clearly heard this guy in discussion most are getting the necessary amount of protein even when elderly..... And my red flag signal went off. So I did a double check... " According to the National Academy of Medicine, the RDA for adults aged 65 and older is approximately 0.45 to 0.55 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily. This translates to about 68 to 83 grams of protein per day for a 150-pound person. Despite this recommendation, research shows that roughly 50% of women and 30% of men over the age of 71 fall short of this RDA, often consuming less than 54 grams per day." F if the guy does not know this what does he know? This is a pretty well known fact which has its roots in many studies and observational data. Protein synthesis he seems to be needlessly complicating it with organ turnover and such. That fact and knowledge decreases protein requirements? It does nothing, it is but a interesting fact with no relevance to the issue. I appreciate Rhondas interviews and body of work which is excellent, but statements like he made need to have push back. Keep in mind those are studies with Americans that produced that data set who globally are probably getting far more than the global norm. World wide protein, meats dairy and such, are many times to expensive and hard to get when elderly. And plant protein....well it lacks a comparable assimilation quality soy excepted. It is quite likely globally elderly do not come close to our protein consumptive pattern. Honestly I did not listen to the rest of the interview as there is no point. It has been proven in multiple studies and meta analysis, optimal considered amounts of protein among the elderly acts to retain muscle mass and prevent sarcopenia.
Last month Dr. Patrick made the claim that people will lose muscle if they eat less than 1.6 g/kg (maybe she misspoke). Hopefully she's on her way to learning you don't need 2.2 g/kg to gain muscle and there could be negative health consequences to eating extreme amounts of protein. You need to do resistance training in old age to prevent sarcopenia, not eat extreme amounts of protein.
2g of protein per kg of bodyweight is not an extreme amount, especially when doing resistance training with proper intensity. Is it more than you absolutely need? Maybe, depends on your goals, but I would hesitate to ascribe negative health consequences to that.
If I said that, it was phrased poorly or I misspoke. 1.6g/kg may be on the upper end of what might be consider optimal for someone training and looking to actively build muscle. It’s a good target in those circumstances. On the other hand, unless you’re eating a very low amount of protein (e.g. the RDA), the performance of resistance training is the most important stimulus. This is something covered again and again now across multiple interviews, including this one with Dr. Luc van Loon and my prior one with Dr. Stuart Phillips.
@@NikoHL For someone weighing 75kg, half a kg of chicken breast would meet the protein of 2g/kg bodyweight. Portion those out over the course of the day. Nothing too crazy imo. But as said in the interview, the main thing is resistance training to have the muscle primed for the protein. I think if you meet ~1g of high quality protein per kg of bodyweight, (like whey isolate, steak, chicken breast etc) you're giving your body enough protein to maintain and grow muscle, unless you're training very hard, like a bodybuilder for competition. Add some carbs in to limit muscle protein breakdown and you're good.
What are the actual practical things coming out of this whole discussion? He just downplays protein and then says all exercise is person dependent and basically nothing of real value I can implement. So vague
I love, love, love Dr. Rhonda, and her podcasts are always awesome, but this one seems to be more suitable for the Captain Obvious channel. There is very little new here, and it's mostly just common sense. This advice and analysis has been around for years already...
I won't take any criticism on plant based when your making a strawman argument of potatoes a plant based source of protein which no1 in the world uses for u to get 100g of protein from beef your need around 800g - 1kg as they are 20-25% protein by weight, yet ignore green protein sources like spirulina 60-70% protein by weight which is a complete essential amino acid profile plus minerals, vitamins, essential fatty acids etc. Your never going to get that with whey or casien protein ever
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Timestamps I think you’ll love:
(00:10:59) Should people who resistance train eat 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (2.2 g/kg)?
(00:12:39) Are there benefits to consuming more than 1.2-1.6 g/kg of protein?
(00:14:58) Should you alter your protein intake when dieting for weight loss?
(00:20:59) Why anabolic resistance could be the result of reduced physical activity
(00:22:45) How to calculate your protein requirement if you’re overweight
(00:33:05) Whether consuming one large dose of protein (e.g., 100g) is the same as consuming several smaller doses (e.g., 20g) throughout the day
(00:44:41) Tips for gaining muscle mass while practicing time-restricted eating
(00:47:07) Should you consume protein before or after resistance training?
(00:56:14) Which is better for stimulating muscle protein synthesis: casein or whey protein?
(01:05:15) Why animal protein is more effective for hypertrophy - and what to do if you’re eating a plant-based diet
(01:08:15) Why vegans and vegetarians should consider supplementing with a combination of plant-based protein powders, such as pea and rice
(01:11:47) Which is a better protein supplement: whey protein isolate or concentrate?
(01:39:18) How to possibly minimize the detrimental effects of cold water immersion on muscle strength
(01:58:57) Does collagen supplementation benefit the skin?
Full list of timestamps is in the description. Hope you enjoyed this one :)
This is an incredible resource, thank you!
I am sorry this has to be said....
WE had in the past media saying things like vitamins just did nothing to the adverse impact on many, to my opinions.
Protein? Really you have everyone here thinking low protein or no attention to protein is necessary. Do you not know this conflicts with others you have interviewed.
Many of your viewers are probably elderly or close to.
Yes protein if you are not exercising does not matter. Did you push him on wether the nitrogen studies were done on heavily exercising subjects? You did quary him on body weight, they were normal weight peoples.
Read your comments most think are taking away it does not matter.
Take my word on it me in my seventies it matters. Attia is right Philip is right the RDA's are low end. Protein assimilation declines past a certain age which is somewhat variable.
You probably did not intend this result but the comments show what it is.
Your get protein from your regular diet doctor McDougal just died at the relatively early age of 76. People who live beyond 65 in america their life expectancy is 80 plus, so he died early.
The guy had a stroke once before, but it was a congenital thing which occurred more than 50 years prior to his death and had likely not a thing to do with his death..
Know what else he had...a broken leg prior from a fall in a bath.
In the bath...know what they means, you know. Sarcopenia and osteopetrosis absent certain things like medical bed rest or other illness they occur both together.
Look at him before his death, that is enough.
I at the same age as him fell from a ladder working on the second floor roof of a building. Know how many broken bones.....zero.
F, all can be like that. I fell in the gym two months ago, as I do balance things, fell to the floor a hard hit...what happened nothing not even any pain.
WE can our elderly all be like that I am not a genetic marvel. Low protein is not the way to that.
It is so sad they can be fully functional. I am vegan and do protein from plant sourced things. All they need to know is how.
Who is next for you Dr Greger? No push back to him as well I guess?
Sad
I will add I do vegan for thought ethical reasons not diet. But found in the past you omitted vegan algae sourced equilivent to fish oil. Maybe you changed on that now I have not checked.
I do think for strict performance and longevity I think a mediteranian diet model basis is best. I have always felt a little meat is probably best. But for other reasons I will not do that.
But collagen. There are no vegan supplements which approximate collagen. But to my study certain aminos and other items may serve a equal purpose when consumed.
Reserch it yourself or not. Probably not is my guess as you did not bother to do that for fish oil including algae derived oil.. Yes flax and similar things do not suffice for most.
People like me which means almost all the vegans in the Uk are not going to take collagen.
So a small bunch but still a bunch would benefit. Yes its benefits seem present.
I will not elaborate why bother. I am about full with you fitness and diet influencers as I think many are becoming.
### Key Insights:
1. Protein Requirements and Adaptation:
- The body constantly renews muscle tissue at a rate of 1-2% per day.
- Traditional protein requirements (0.8g/kg body weight) may not be optimal for everyone.
- The body can adapt to different protein intakes, but higher intakes may be beneficial for muscle growth.
2. Muscle Protein Synthesis and Accretion:
- Muscle protein synthesis increases after exercise and with higher protein intake.
- For resistance training, 1.2-1.6g of protein per kg of body weight can lead to greater muscle mass and strength gains.
- Maintaining consistent protein intake is crucial, especially during weight loss periods.
3. Anabolic Resistance and Physical Activity:
- Older adults may require higher protein intake due to anabolic resistance.
- Physical activity significantly increases sensitivity to food intake and can help overcome anabolic resistance.
4. Protein Distribution and Timing:
- Distributing protein intake throughout the day is important for muscle growth.
- Each main meal should contain 20-25g of protein for consistent anabolic stimulation.
- Pre-sleep protein intake can be beneficial for muscle growth.
5. Exercise and Muscle Growth:
- Physical activity is crucial for maintaining lean mass, even more so than protein intake alone.
- Two resistance training sessions per week are more important than focusing solely on protein intake.
- Exercise increases the body's sensitivity to amino acids, leading to greater protein utilization.
6. Protein Sources and Quality:
- While there may be slight differences between whole food protein sources and protein shakes, these differences are likely minimal for overall muscle growth.
- Plant-based proteins can be effective when consumed in sufficient quantities and combined to create a complete amino acid profile.
7. Leucine and Muscle Protein Synthesis:
- Leucine plays a crucial role in stimulating muscle protein synthesis.
- About 2.5g of leucine (found in approximately 20g of protein) triggers a significant increase in muscle protein synthesis.
8. Cold Water Immersion and Muscle Growth:
- Cold water immersion immediately after resistance training may hinder muscle growth.
- It might be better suited for recovery days or endurance training sessions.
9. Collagen Supplementation:
- Collagen supplementation may benefit connective tissues but does not increase muscle protein synthesis.
- More research is needed to confirm its effects on skin, joints, and bone health.
Conclusion:
Dr. Luc Van Loon's insights provide a comprehensive understanding of protein intake, muscle growth, and exercise. While protein intake is crucial for muscle growth, the importance of physical activity cannot be overstated. Optimal protein intake, proper distribution throughout the day, and regular resistance training are key factors in maximizing muscle growth and overall health. However, individual needs may vary, and factors such as age, activity level, and specific health conditions should be considered when determining optimal protein intake and exercise routines. As research in this field continues to evolve, it's clear that a balanced approach combining adequate protein intake, regular exercise, and overall healthy lifestyle habits is essential for maintaining and improving muscle mass and overall health.
This is the most informative discussion on protein I've ever listened to. Great questions and logical, useful/practical answers.
💯
Most influencers have all the right answers, but only Rhonda has all the right questions.
So real and true
Not for me, many influencers are just kooks trying to get attention and make money for themselves.
Except maybe. “So if someone is trying to limit fat, is wpi or wpc better”? Really? Given the make up of both? Apart from that, great clip. Oh. Also, what was missed re cold therapy was if cold therapy PRIOR to training has any impact, positive or negative.
True... great questions
Without question, the most informative interview on protein I have ever seen. Dr. Van Loon certainly inspires confidence. Most knowledgeable expert I've seen. Thanks!
Absolutely excellent questions, Absolutely excellent answers. Scientific dialogue at its best. Thank you Dr Rhonda Patrick and Dr Luc Van Loon.
Been riding with Rhonda since her first podcast with Rogan many years ago! Rhonda you’re amazing. Thank you for everything you do. 🙏🏼
Peter Attia may overstate the necessary amount of protein for maintaining muscle mass as you age, but it was reading his book Outlive that made me aware of the importance of protein. I am a healthy 71 year old that exercises pretty religiously but I had trouble adding any muscle mass. After reading Outlive I started paying attention to how much protein I was consuming. On average it was probably around 60 grams (I weigh 79 kg). This is where I take exception to Loon's comment that if you are energy balanced you are probably consuming enough protein. I definitely wasn't so I do think you need to pay attention to what you eat and not just assume that if you are in energy balance you are eating enough protein.
"if you are energy balanced you are probably consuming enough protein" - you can obtain energy balance through different macronutrient ratios.
I weigh 78 kg and my intake varies between 80 and 100 g/day, without supplements; in caloric balance.
This is possible due to regulary consuming legumes (peas, lentils, beans of various types) - at least one such meal a day, containing 250-300 g of cooked legumes. I eat meat 2-3 times a week. There were years when I only ate meat once a week (not recommending it).
I am in the same age range and weight train do HIT and aerobics at least once a week on average working out five or four days per week.
I found a problem with apparent muscle mass despite exercise about around 65.
I researched it added protein and my response was as if I was on steroids. No hanging skin the muscle again filled it out.
This is the real of it from a simple AI search. I could elaborate as I have studied the issue and much exists to substantiate this..
"
According to the National Academy of Medicine, the RDA for adults aged 65 and older is approximately 0.45 to 0.55 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily. This translates to about 68 to 83 grams of protein per day for a 150-pound person. Despite this recommendation, research shows that roughly 50% of women and 30% of men over the age of 71 fall short of this RDA, often consuming less than 54 grams per day.
If you do not exercise which now is simply not done, all elderly have to exercise I expect his comment is true.
WE all have to exercise it is widely seen by study as the one most important factor affecting longevity. It may be daily activity if you live in a more natural environment walking gardening large plots carrying water fishing and such. Most of us simply do not live those type places so we must exercise. And those protein amounts do not suffice to maintain muscle mass.
I hear these things stated and think this is almost criminal. Sarcopenia and osteoporosis run hand and hand and if a fall causes a broken hip, your life expectancy has suddenly immediately instantly declined. It is absolutely necessary to maintain muscle mass as much as possible.
Wait. Isn't Peter Attia's docet 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram or 1 gram per pound? In your case, that would be 174 grams daily or slightly more if your goal is to increase muscle mass, sir.
@@ronhumphreys3762 how much protein do you take?
Never skip a Rhonda podcast episode
This is such an insightful conversation, thank you!. Dr Van Loon is so clear in explanations, so detailed and so passionate, I am grateful he is open for being a guests in the podcasts, having access to his mind and knowledge is a privilege.
Appreciated this interview on protein Rhonda. Meal prepping without being able to tolerate pea, rice source of protein mix has required a reset of thinking for 60+ diet to incorporating hydrolysed collagen. Great conversation and many thanks to Dr Luc Van Loon for being so candid. 😊😊😊
Awesome interview. The first time I heard a leading protein researcher bridge the gap between high protein advocates and Valter Longo. Deserves a lot more attention because they both can be right.
Great great questions... thanks host... very smart questions and helpful for many people...❤❤❤🎉🎉
Insanely good video, clarified everything I wanted to know about protein.
That's awesome! Glad you enjoyed it.
Dr. Patrick thank you very much! I am very grateful I found you. Your videos and contents continue to inspire me to spread the importance of ongoing quest for knowledge for health span and life span. Health is wealth. I listened and watched Dr. Loon but didn’t hear anything about the amount of protein necessary for bone metabolism. I have osteoporosis, have been reversing it through diet and exercise. There are lots of conflicting information out there on how much protein we need to increase bone mineral density and improve bone quality. Thank you! I tell everyone interested about you !
Ps. He answered lots of questions I’ve been wondering about. You both are brilliant and wonderful
Luc is brilliant. Thanks Rhonda
Thank you for this presentation.
Fantastic interview and I'll add Dr. Luc Van Loon to my resources for good health.
This is a wonderful interview. A voice of sanity in an insane world focused on cramped manliness and self-declared 'athletes'. It largely brings me back to what I learned in med school, 45 years ago.
It's very clear. We are all uniquely different and will not have the same experience. It's also clear that just because I was a athlete long ago doesn't mean I can expect to get back to that condition anytime soon staring with my curent metabolic health, poor sleep, hormone and thyroid issues and age.
I liked it very much! Doing OMAD and training almost every day looks possible without loosing muscle. Many others preach right now, that Keto, OMAD is not good and we should have 3-4 meals with protein, but this studies show, that it is not the case.
One of the things I didn’t see in this video was how excess protein, specifically branch chain amino acids, contributes to methylation. Methylation of DNA at promoter regions and cpg islands deactivates genes. Androgenic genes are under regulation of a methylation promoter. When methylated, androgenic genes and androgenic signaling is down regulated. I recently stopped consuming bcaa’s and whey protein and focusing much more on meat, eggs and cottage cheese, food which are lower in bcaas. Based off the idea that excess bcaas can contribute to methylation and turn off androgenic genes. I have gotten great results and this is inline with Dr Luc Van Loons statement that muscles can still grow on .8 grams of protein/ Gram of body weight per day. If anyone has anything to add I would like to hear your insight
Very interesting point you bring up. Thanks so much.
Wow, questions I always wanted to ask someone like Dr Luc, and the corresponding comprehensive answers. So much, for me, new information!!! Just awesome!
Excellent interview. Dr van Loon is always very informative. I think finally this interviews settles for me the issue of protein intake.N=1 experiment: I went from a very restrictive WFPB diet for 5 years (reference: 50F , 169cm, 53Kg on WFPB vegan diet 40-50g /day protein, change made due to address OA which, of course, led me to drastically reduce exercise due to chronic pain and restrictions) to a WFPB diet more flexible meaning eating animal product 2-4 small portions per week ( 60-80g/day ) for the past 2 years. But I also exercise much more now ( new hip!) for the past 2 years and it seems to me that the biggest difference in strength and muscle definition has been provided to me by exercise. In summary, exercise triumph all the protein obsessions in the world.
To get optimal muscle mass increase or retention necessary amounts of protein must be consumed. Our protein assimilation capability declines with age.
Exercise is great and helps all things but best is best necessary protein provides a best response to it.
I am vegan have been for around 35 years but supplement vegan Lucien and pay attention to protein amounts as I am in my seventies
Wonderful interview! Wonderful questions! We're getting answers to everything we've been wondering about. Thank you!
What a fantastic interview. Thank you!
This is one of the best guests Rhonda has interviewed and there’s a lot of meaningful content here. I’ll say she really wants to believe cold water immersion is a miracle treatment. Seems like there are many other things we could prioritize before cold water immersion that offer greater benefits.
Good interview/talk. In essence Dr. Luc Van Loon confirmes, regular training is waaaay more important than hormones and proteins. In contrast, consuming more protein makes your body "addicted" to it or be inefficient with it. I recently reread the last few chapters of "how not to age" where the theme of a little less protein is actually good for healthspan is thematised in depth.
Sarcopenia was not recognized until fairly recently the last five years or so in study to be a very real limiter to lifespan.
Most of the high protein being bad for you was related to the IGF-1 findings on higher protein amounts stimulated it, and then providing incitement for some hormone dependent cancers.
Which is fact. But what is also fact is those IGF=1 longevity studies were performed on Uk peoples the very largest one on american peoples.
Guess what........... they have results based upon animal proteins as statistically few americans and Uk peoples get their protein by any majority from plants.
Animal protein in higher amounts has been shown in multiple studies to be a limiter to longevity. Plant protein no.
Even soy.
Higher plant protein amounts has not been found to be a longevity limiter by any peer reviewed published study.
Animal protein certainly.
A minor note but have you not noticed everyone ages despite all anyone may do and as well all die.
Point is you are being sold a impossible thing by title.
Which may lead people to question this, or not. Are we so used to being lied to we do not even notice anymore?
@@ronhumphreys3762 Good points, but Dr. Michael Greger is generally a advocate for plant based. So in essence eat mainly plants and get your protein from them is baseline. Also, its way easier to not overeat on plant protein in the first place. (Like you said ;) )
Sorry, but your second comment, I do not agree at all. Most of the longevity Scientists tend to communicate some form of: You have to die, get old and be miserable is a backwards and old way of thinking. Much like back then cigarettes were healthy, or milk etc. Just look at the "Dont die" movement started by Bryan Johnson. In a lifespan affected by a lot of unhealthy habits, you can die from cancer as soon as 40. On the other hand, you can make it to 100< and still be able to do "all" of your choires on your own, still live your Ikigai and love life. Please leave behind the "you have to die" way of thinking. Certainly, everyone can and likely will die. But you have soo many more great and marvelous years in front of you. The human is so much more than 20-30 young years of life.
@@ronhumphreys3762 On your first comment I agree. That is what Dr. Michael Greger communicated to the public. And thats what I wrote.
On the second I completely disagree. Everyone has to die "and that is good" is a obsolete way of thinking. There are a lot of movements, like the "Dont die" movement of Bryan Johnson. Many leading scientists and communicators like David Sinclair are also going in that direction. What is "natural" gets challanged every now and then. Dont cling to something that was. At some point smoking was healthy, and to some extent animal or rather cows milk still is claimed healthy etc. Find your Ikigai. With meaning you dont want to die before 100. There are many good years to come.
Those observational studies don't measure the quality of the food. Luc points out that it's the excess consumption that exercise would burn that leads to health issues that affect longevity. Regions with the most centenarians eat mostly plants, but they nearly all include small amounts of meat and seafood. The people in those regions are active all day long. They eat less meat because they are poorer. There is no study I know of where the animal eaten was pure red meat with no fat or marbling, like buffalo meat, so we don't yet have enough data to say it's the plant-only diet that's responsible for the longevity. A plant-based diet is often a lower-calorie diet that, combined with exercise, may be the main catalyst for nurtured longevity, whether it be plant or meat-based.
It's interesting how I have been living by the principle of antifragility, adaptation, after reading Nassim Taleb book, but as Taleb wrote, it is possible to understand a principle but the sometimes overlook applying it to particularities.
I totally did this when it came to the amount of protein, never applying that also the mechanism of muscle repair and building also adapts to higher/lower protein intake. This interview has been very helpful.
Ronda when are you going to address the intermittent fasting critique. You are strong proponent of this diet. Time to meet the critique in regards to heart problems etc.
It's becoming CLEAR.....THAT....ALL....OF OUR Chronic Diseases..."Metabolic" in Origin.
Healthy Mitochondria....Happy Life.
I would be happy to watch a detailed video about Inositol. There are few videos about this supplement. I have been using this supplement to help with my sleep and I am really impressed with its effectiveness. But I would like to know about its use for long periods and its real safety.
Based on his findings, it seems like the ideal is to do high intensity muscle work in the evening followed by 40g of protein before bed.
Wow...I though you can will make another video on protein that will top the interview with Dr Stuart Philip. This one is up there. Thanks you both for sharing your knowledge. I will rerun this soon.
Philip by my read seems to directly contradict many of this fellows claims.
My money is on Philip.
This guy is just off base...
"According to the National Academy of Medicine, the RDA for adults aged 65 and older is approximately 0.45 to 0.55 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily. This translates to about 68 to 83 grams of protein per day for a 150-pound person. Despite this recommendation, research shows that roughly 50% of women and 30% of men over the age of 71 fall short of this RDA, often consuming less than 54 grams per day."
Sound like they are getting enough from their regular diet?
Or All the recommendations are to high then?
Multiple studies provided that answer.
Progressive resistance training at a high enough load is necessary for hypertrophy. The one thing they're not hitting on in this conversation is the different types of proteins animal compared to plant compared to essential amino acids. Each person based on their individual genetic type is enabled to digest and break down and utilize different types of proteins and they need different types of proteins.
Fascinating conversation, thank you both!🇨🇦💪
Re cold therapy, what about using it PRIOR to training? What if anything is the impact, positive or negative, around that?
There aren't any studies that have looked at cold exposure before resistance training on gains in strength or muscle mass. I would hesitate to say that doing it before hand would have the same negative effects, but I can't say for certain. However, cold exposure prior to exercise may have benefits related to alertness or performance. We have an entire page dedicated to cold exposure on our website that you might find useful! www.foundmyfitness.com/topics/cold-exposure-therapy
@@FoundMyFitnessthanks for the reply. There’s a theory that it can increase testosterone levels doing it this way and also, the hypoxic effect of at least the initial part of the training, where the muscle isn’t getting the nutrients it usually would but then overcompensates once it catches up. Much like the bands that are used in gyms to restrict blood flow while training specific body parts. Would be a great test to do I think. 🙏
I would be very happy to see a video of yours about Inositol. There is still very little information available about this supplement on TH-cam. I am using it and it seems to be helping my sleep both in duration and quality. However, I would like to know the safety profile of this supplement and the correct dosage. Thanks!
Excellent discussion! Thank you.
Can you do a video on Ashwagandha? The negative effects after you stop taking it? Great video!
Great video, very interesting. Many thanks.
I practice restricting time eating (eating 2 meals a day: 13.30 and 19:00). I am struggling, with 2 meals a day, to reach the protein intake requirement needed considering that I exercise every day. I would like to avoid supplements.
Any suggestion? Many thanks in advance.
Dr. Luc has a John Malcovich vibe ,does anyone see that? [ thanks for these interviews Rhonda, supa cool work btw ]
Hello,I am 42 years old, 60 kg (11% bodyfat) and I do regular 4-5 weekly resistance training and eat about 2,2g/kg protein (mainly high quality) in 3-4 meals (4 is ideal to me). As I am "only" 60 kg it is about 135 g protein and with 4 meals it is "only" 30-35g (and I count it from all protein sources). Even with high quality protein it barely reaches 2,5g leucine trashold.
Should I worry and eat protein only 3 times for 40-45g?
I still eat lot of protein if I ate 1,6g/kg this question would be even more relevant. I can eat more protein (and sometimes it reaches 170-180g) but wanted to make it more flexible (keep it balanced meal) but dont want to miss all my MPS with that distribution - especially in my muscle gain phase.
Dr. Luc speaks about only 20g to reach trashold but other Doctors said 2,5-3g leucine which is much more.
thank you, both
Two beautiful brains.❤️
So much useful info!! Thank you both ❤
Well done brilliant information
Would love to have you on our podcast! How can we make that happen?
Thank you, God bless you.
Great discussion. My only suggestion coming from a 70'ish year old fart and who lifts 5 hours a week along with about 2.5 hours of cardio, I would be interested in discussing nutrient absorption including the energy demand used in digestion., In other words, as I get older it takes more energy to digest a high protein breakfast and will take away from the energy I need to use working out. I have found through trial and error that I can drink about 8 oz or raw milk and eat about 2 oz of mixed nuts for breakfast and then have my larger recovery meal after my workout, I find my energy better with a lower food load several hours before workout, and my recovery much better with a larger high protein dinner afterward. I don't know if other old folks have this same experience.
Good advice from another old fart 😊
As another old fart, I’ve found that I have to wait longer to workout after a high protein breakfast than I used to or my performance will suffer. I still have the high protein breakfast first but it seems that I should try what you are doing.
I am in my seventies and find I feel recovered better with a protein sourced meal after my work out. Before never.
It leaves me sluggish and unable to perform.
I can have a carb meal or snack pretty close to work out time, a hour or so before. A higher protein meal no, has to be more like three hours.
Anything closer in than a hour seems bad for performance as well protein or carbs.
For me that means a no caloric drink such as green tea unsweetened, which I even consume between exercises.
But any calories while working out I think is a negative. Part of the exercise effect I think is caloric deprivation and energy source from internal mechanism not eaten or drank things. .It sort of provides a fasting type effect.
I’m another old fart - I like to eat high protein about 2 to 1.5hours before and then some carbs - like bananas, toast and peanut butter - within an hour of my training. Afterwards I’m starving within 30 minutes and eat a balance of protein, fats and carbs
Very good INFO passed forward here...
Awesome info! Thanks!
Hi, what about the ratio of mother's milk for baby. Between LCHF diet. Ketone protein fat.
I think as people get older notwithstanding infirmity or or diseases or things that cannot be helped, an older person becomes less inspired and we also think that his or her use is limited, not so much nowadays but I think that was more of the case in “yesteryear “people thought well I’m 50 years old my usefulness is going to diminish and it slowly gets worse and worse so I think one of the main things to have is a goal whether it be call Mark painting, or sculpture or just simply even being abused to others in the community I think that keeps a person young and inspired to live longer and the more Inspired life
"people can adapt to a lower protein diet" HA, sure they can, but what will the consequence be?
Will the consequence be more fat on the body from now being more hungry and snacking on more sugers?
Will the consequence be losing muscle mass? Being more tired?
What does it mean to "adapt" ?
Really good info, thank you 👌🙏
Great video, but a bit ignorant when it came to the vegan conversation. No vegan tries getting their protein from potatoes and lettuce 🤣 they don’t even use beans. They use tofu, seitan, tempeh, edamame. I was vegan for 5 years and ate 200g of protein most days with the help of 3 cereal bars and a shake for 50g of those 200z
amazing!
Thanks!
Curious what the impact of cold would be prior to resistance training. Presumably with core temperature recovered for exercise, would the cold have the same blunting effect?
Should've asked this explicitly, but I think overall the likelihood of a negative impact from an MPS standpoint is greatly reduced in the scenario based on the mechanisms likely at play.
Is this based on studies on men or women or both? Listened to the latest Huberman and learned that there is a big difference between in what’s optimal for men and women
Longevity study related to protein consumption is typically related to maintaining of muscle mass when one ages.
Yes women tend less muscle mass . So optimal protein consumption amounts vary. It does all depend upon exercising or not. No protein amounts are not the same for everyone regardless of muscle mass.
No body builders as a one example, grows or maintains muscle on a low protein diet. More muscle requires more protein to be maintained.
Saying that would be like saying steroids just don't work it is all placebo. Steroids work and higher protein consumption with higher muscle mass is necessary for Maintenace of amount.
Not exercising or not very active it probably is not a issue how much protein you eat.
Women by study seem also to consume (american women) less protein as they age.
Many being below the recommended amounts after age 65.
TRE is beneficial for a variety of reasons not related to weight loss
What if you take a cold shower or ice bath before strength training? Let's say a couple of hours before. Then you do a couple of hours of training. Would that have the same negative effect?
there is only a few Influencers that I go too for evidence-based information and that is Peter Attia, Andy Galpin and Rhonda Patrick.
I think there were great questions. However, maybe due to some style of answering, it may have been hard to fish the response. 😅
I think it’s surprises people that protein has been broken down and being rebuilt because psychologically they see outside of their bodies the breaking down of things like buildings and structures and so on and they equate that with something bad or negative but actually breaking something down as in the bodies proteins and cells is a positive thing because it actually provides energy and nutrition for a future growth, just my opinion
I have only one stupid question : if a body adapts, what’s the point?
What are the pros and cons of cold water immersion BEFORE a workout?
While I didn't invite him to speculate on this, it really does seem to follow from what he says the biggest problem is blunting the MPS in response to training (e.g. after) and that by adding some separation your odds of it having a meaningful impact are reduced.
Additionally, please clarify: The podcast has conflicting information. Is the correct protein consumption measurement being discussed grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight, or grams of protein per pound of bodyweight?
If cold therapy adversely affects muscle growth, could the opposite be true for saunas, which could stimulate muscle growth?
Saunas seem to stimulate human growth hormone production which would assist in muscle growth.
Cold is a negative directly after training, not proven a deficit before training if the muscles are allowed to warm up to a natural degree first before exercising.
Are his studies done only on men? I wish you would look into this. Stacy Sims disagrees with these points for women.
Exactly! Women are not small men. Women in different reproductive stages have different needs, too.
All the studies done included women?
ofcourse
I’m so surprised he didn't mention soy isolate it has all amino acid
2010s Rhonda: Sulforaphane, curcumin, vit D, magnesium, EPA/DHA
2024 Rhonda: i crave flesh
Except he never said that. He said whey is the most effective at protein synthesis but plant based proteins are good. What matters more is exercise.
😂
59:15 "the differences are not that important" The differences are important for my wallet tho :)
So workout and eat protein
So then, it is in coming to a nurse to always make sure that we get nutrient dense food as opposed to just caloric intake
Would either of you good people be able to help my son who is suffering from hyperammonemia? He is currently taking high doses of supplements to control the ammonia, but a LOW protein diet is necessary in order to preserve his brain. We are reaching out to multiple doctors this week as we have been battling this for nearly 2 years. He turns 20 tomorrow and could use some hope.
You should reach out to the True Noth Health Center in California. They are good at figuring out health issues.
@@ScoutFX Thank you for the lead.
Some experts say one should eat 2.2 grams per kilogram of body weight (or 1 gram per pound) if their goal is to increase body mass. How is then 0.8 or 1.2 enough?
If I want to decrease blood sugars, eat more protein
Why is he talking about 0.8 g protein per kg bodyweight when physiologist state the requirement as essential amino acids per kg lean body weight or better still per unit of metabolizable energy for maintenance, growth or performance. Some of the early studies measuring nitrogen balance were done with closed respiration calorimeters that balanced all forms of nitrogen and energy and the values calculated in humans match those for the pig which is the medical model of the human.
Based gurl
I clearly heard this guy in discussion most are getting the necessary amount of protein even when elderly.....
And my red flag signal went off.
So I did a double check...
" According to the National Academy of Medicine, the RDA for adults aged 65 and older is approximately 0.45 to 0.55 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily. This translates to about 68 to 83 grams of protein per day for a 150-pound person. Despite this recommendation, research shows that roughly 50% of women and 30% of men over the age of 71 fall short of this RDA, often consuming less than 54 grams per day."
F if the guy does not know this what does he know? This is a pretty well known fact which has its roots in many studies and observational data.
Protein synthesis he seems to be needlessly complicating it with organ turnover and such. That fact and knowledge decreases protein requirements? It does nothing, it is but a interesting fact with no relevance to the issue.
I appreciate Rhondas interviews and body of work which is excellent, but statements like he made need to have push back.
Keep in mind those are studies with Americans that produced that data set who globally are probably getting far more than the global norm. World wide protein, meats dairy and such, are many times to expensive and hard to get when elderly. And plant protein....well it lacks a comparable assimilation quality soy excepted. It is quite likely globally elderly do not come close to our protein consumptive pattern.
Honestly I did not listen to the rest of the interview as there is no point.
It has been proven in multiple studies and meta analysis, optimal considered amounts of protein among the elderly acts to retain muscle mass and prevent sarcopenia.
Me 2 seconds in: "...Hmmm, is this a Dutch bloke?" 🤔
Eggs suck. Sad, old gymrat stuff, oh here we go with Rocky!!! All makes sense...
Last month Dr. Patrick made the claim that people will lose muscle if they eat less than 1.6 g/kg (maybe she misspoke). Hopefully she's on her way to learning you don't need 2.2 g/kg to gain muscle and there could be negative health consequences to eating extreme amounts of protein. You need to do resistance training in old age to prevent sarcopenia, not eat extreme amounts of protein.
2g of protein per kg of bodyweight is not an extreme amount, especially when doing resistance training with proper intensity.
Is it more than you absolutely need? Maybe, depends on your goals, but I would hesitate to ascribe negative health consequences to that.
If I said that, it was phrased poorly or I misspoke. 1.6g/kg may be on the upper end of what might be consider optimal for someone training and looking to actively build muscle. It’s a good target in those circumstances. On the other hand, unless you’re eating a very low amount of protein (e.g. the RDA), the performance of resistance training is the most important stimulus. This is something covered again and again now across multiple interviews, including this one with Dr. Luc van Loon and my prior one with Dr. Stuart Phillips.
I have just started going to the gym with a PT.. I'm 62! In reasonable health.. 3 weeks in and I'm getting stronger... This is very interesting...
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@@dvkevin I'd love to be able to eat that much protein but I can't... How do you do it ?
@@NikoHL For someone weighing 75kg, half a kg of chicken breast would meet the protein of 2g/kg bodyweight. Portion those out over the course of the day. Nothing too crazy imo. But as said in the interview, the main thing is resistance training to have the muscle primed for the protein. I think if you meet ~1g of high quality protein per kg of bodyweight, (like whey isolate, steak, chicken breast etc) you're giving your body enough protein to maintain and grow muscle, unless you're training very hard, like a bodybuilder for competition. Add some carbs in to limit muscle protein breakdown and you're good.
What are the actual practical things coming out of this whole discussion? He just downplays protein and then says all exercise is person dependent and basically nothing of real value I can implement. So vague
Listening, but...
But...?
@@mmehysteria But...??
Optimise protein - is fat and low in muscle mass
I love, love, love Dr. Rhonda, and her podcasts are always awesome, but this one seems to be more suitable for the Captain Obvious channel. There is very little new here, and it's mostly just common sense. This advice and analysis has been around for years already...
There is always someone new learning out there. Don't be that dude.
Some things have huge bodies of research around them lol
@@rosysulla As long as I'm not your kind of dude, I'm fine. Btw, it's not too late to re-enroll in 3rd grade...
@@BrikBeans That's right, and some things have been covered ad nauseam at this point... Novel research is more interesting - to me at least.
@@jontpt You're so cool, dude. Go back to third grade. However will I recover from such a burn lol
How many have to die?
Before you have Bret Weinstein on ?
But is it the same for women on menopause?
I won't take any criticism on plant based when your making a strawman argument of potatoes a plant based source of protein which no1 in the world uses for u to get 100g of protein from beef your need around 800g - 1kg as they are 20-25% protein by weight, yet ignore green protein sources like spirulina 60-70% protein by weight which is a complete essential amino acid profile plus minerals, vitamins, essential fatty acids etc. Your never going to get that with whey or casien protein ever
Thanks!
Hi, what about the ratio of mother's milk for baby. Between LCHF diet. Ketone protein fat.