Foot Knights have been part of Bretonnian lore, even after the ye olden days of 3rd Edition. They were mentioned in the Knights of Bretonnia Omnibus, and specifically it was cited that they'd be the ones manning castle walls during sieges, bellowing orders to the Men-At-Arms and maintaining their morale. They're still an exceedingly rare sight in most parts of Bretonnia, but the Dukedom of Montfort still made use of them, as Foot Knights had an easier time navigating the Grey Mountains than their mounted counterparts would. So I don't mind Foot Knights being a unit in the Old World. But yes, the lack of diverse heraldry is concerning, since the bright colorful and dare I say, diverse livery is a major appeal to Bretonnia, showing off that they're not just soldiers in uniform (like what's commonly seen in the Empire), but rather a gathering of noble warriors, each one a special character in his own right.
Knights will have their own heraldry for common use, but in large battles will don the heraldry of their liege for ease of identification on the battlefield. Side note; part of heraldry for lesser nobility included reference to whom the noble served, so it would actually make sense for a Knight of Brionne to have black and red fields on his heraldry - they would just be in different patterns with different blazons for the different nobles. More specifically, Questing Knights WOULDN'T have their own heraldry as they set aside their family claims as part of their Quest for the Lady (it's happened a couple times where a noble son was forbidden from taking the Questing Vow because it would leave his family heirless and his lands leaderless) so they'd all be forced to wear the Lord's colors (or none at all). Grail Knights could take up their own heraldry, or a completely different one, I feel like out of all the types of Knight, Grail Knights wouldn't give a flying frell what heraldry they wear. If anyone in a Bretonnian army would have mismatched heraldry, it'd be the Grail Knights. The others... are they really "Special Characters"? REEEALLY?
The concept of a foot knight in itself is really dumb. If you're wealthy enough to walk around in plate armor you're wealthy enough to own a horse lol. They're really just a knight whose dismounted for reasons or another. It's not like they're glued to their horses lol
@@Acesahn Foot knights were also something for the Siege rules if I remember right where they were, essentially, a discounted version of some of the other knights. Mainly because you were expected to dump the freed up points on other things to fortify with. The foot knights being part of it seems like it might put the siege rules into the main rules for Old World.
What do you think of the new miniature design? For me their proportions seems off, chest look way to wide, the foot looks too big and they seems to be mix gendered, but the female head on that body looks very dumb. But why even have female heads, female knights should be exception not norm. I have no faith in the new model lines.
i still get confused why they released two very good video games, vermintide and total war warhammer AFTER axing the setting because those two games gave warhammer fantasy a huge boost into the public brain space that it never really had before. i swear had GW waited a few years old warhammer fantasy wouldn't have to go
They gave lore justifications for having both uniform and individual heraldry for Bretonnian knights. Essentially, the knights can either show fealty to their duke by wearing his heraldry or display their own colours. The new lore suggests that crusading armies will have a mix of knights from across Bretonnia, and therefor have a mix of colours for that reason. Of course, the real reason is for creating a valid option for those that find it too difficult to paint mixed heraldry.
I quite like that explanation, actually. I’m currently working on a (real world) Holy Roman Empire army, and doing each of my knights and their retinue in unique colors is quite fun to me. However, I can easily see why lots of people who don’t have 10 years of experience would find that quite frustrating to try to do. Plus, I think it makes some sense- if I recall, real knights did sometimes use heraldry from a house or higher ranking noble they owed allegiance to I believe, so the explanation is perfectly passable.
@@lordvarrax5060 Yes, having each knight and retinue in different colors is all nica and dandy. Up to the point where you want to bring a larger army of say 50 Knights. And you realize, that the standard Heraldic color choices will only go so far. Then you start putting on the different emblems by freehand, as there are not stickers for them any more. Oh, the memories...
I mean, im of the opinion that they dont care at all and because there are enough people who are willing to pay way to much for their stuff, they have no respect at all for their "Pay Pigs". The whole reason of the End Times and Age of Sigmar was: We want to make more Profit. How can we make People buy everything new from scratch? Because they killed the Old world and handled the change from 1 Setting to the other with no care. Then they recognized that not enough People took the bait and bringing the Old World back is also handled with the Question: How can we make everyone buy everything new and not invest much effort into it. Answer: Re-Release the old stuff with some changes and dont care much if it fits the setting of that faction. Also, the trend to make bigger Models and put more Details on it: Bigger Model and more stuff = can ask more money for the Model.
Good will? My brother in Christ, they were the ones that mismanaged the hell out of Fantasy and killed it outright instead of fixing the issues they caused. If anything, much of TOW feels like it falls somewhere between a cynical cash-in on Fantasy's dogged relevance in the wider cultural consciousness, and a spiteful attempt to force Fantasy into a second and final grave.
If they were smart, they would've reintroduced the old world along with Total Warhammer. They could've reintroduced each army as it came out in the games. They didn't even need to hire competent writers, they could've just reintroduced the armies and have done very well.
In my opinion, Bretonia and Tomb Kings were chosen for this as they do not exist in AoS. They want the game to have its own identity, and probably don't want to pull the minis they have spent years replacing back out of storage to compete with the AoS ones.
I highly suspect that if we ever get Araby they won't be a faction of absolutely decadent Sultans with enormous harems of lolis and a thriving slavetrade of Pygmies from the Southlands. And this worries me for the future of the franchise.
There's no way they'd reintroduce the Pygmies without new sculpts and lots of self-flagellating regardless. I don't think they're keen on pulling the pin on that particular grenade though.
@@BlueSatoshi I'd be fine with taking inspiration from European myths about far flung lands. Like instead of just pygmies that there would be heavily deformed men further south. Humans that have no head above their torso, mouths on the stomach, or walking on their hands. But no seriously the Pygmies were a fun idea with their tamed gorillas. And how they aren't actually halflings and are indeed fully human. I'd also be fine with an Ethiopian inspired civilization somewhere (not Wakanda though) as long as the primitives like the pygmies remained too.
@@darken2417I've heard that a lot of sub-Saharan African mythology apparently revolves around their gods abandoning them, so maybe that could be reflected via the Old Ones somehow. They were originally sorta paired with the Lizardmen, plus the Southlands at the moment are basically Lustria but in not-Africa. On that note, I read somewhere that the ingredients of southern Araby are described as having jet black skin, without them elaborating much further, so that would be another interesting avenue to take: Arabyan Pygmies and Southland Pygmies. Could be one way to make that part of the Warhammer world more unique.
@@darken2417 No amount of lore justification will ever make the pygmies come back. The political landscape has changed and they are way too obvious with their r*cist origin. Seriously, the fat pink lips and dark skin with barbarian clothing makes it a bomb.
One of the first units announced for TOW was crazy immersion breaking, the Kislev ice guard. They not only forgot that that Kislev already had a 'monarch's bodyguard' unit, but for some reason they are also one of the only mortal races with magic weapons.
GW actually adressed iconography issue in Bretonnia. They claim that they changed it because people felt overwhelmed with creating unique colors for each knight.
Bretonnia was one of the worst selling armies in WHFB. That's why they never got updates after 2003. I can see the color issue (although I will paint mine individually).
I beg your pardon, but GW did feature Bretonnian armies with knights taking on the heraldry of their baron/duke back in the old days, while providing supporting lore captions for this sometimes practice. I will of course buy the new box, gleeful with a multiplicity of different heraldry ideas to paint on each knight.
so they blew up the world i cared about, tried to sell me other crap and upped the price on that crap, and now they are crawling back... with the models even more expensive, and showing a lack of knowledge in why i liked the bretonnians? sod off, GW...
Less them crawling back and them getting one last cash grab. They do not at all seem repentant over destroying WHFB. Their mainlines in 40k and AoS are making them too much money to care.
The problem is... both were (from my experience), 'C Tier' factions that didn't have too many fans. They strike me as odd choices for luring in new players. A great place to start could have been Vampire Counts or Orcs Vs Empire or Dwarves... they themselves say that the battle of Hel Fen has just taken place (Empire and Dwarves Vs Undead), but use it as an excuse to write the Vamps out of the setting, and Greenskins are always a threat.
Foot Knights lorewise make perfect sense as a unit to me as something that’s just realistic, of course you’d have knights on foot, they’re expert melee fighters who’ve been trained from birth, and if they refuse to fight on foot, that must make sieges, mountain fighting and frankly any difficult terrain an interesting prospect. But don’t call them Foot Knights, call them Dismounted Knights.
foot squires, man-at-arms. household troops, knight's retinue. a lot of things that could fill this niche of knights on foot that would have a historical connection and would fit in with bretonnia. feels like the historians who wrote fantasy have been kicked out for and replaced with Current-Year writers.
@@nickvanachthoven7252 Ah yes, I remember the Historical accuracy when the Bretonnian Vs Lizardmen box came out in 5th edition: Foot Knights were literally BEGGED for by actual bret players for years: We're sick of literal potato sack retards on foot and the idea of a full Knightly Army without needing to be all Cavalary WAS WANTED.
not so mutch even in our history they almost never dismounted, Knigts where always heavy Cav, that was there thing since was it Carl the greate? king of France and English Knights, also German Knights and Most Knight Orders like Knights templar and the Ordo Teutonicus (german Knight order) where almost only on Horseback, only Dismounting if they where forced to do so. or when they where in a Siege and there Horses of no use. House Guards where most of the Time Lower Nobles, not Knights. Knight was not a Job or a Discription it was a Title, a title with land you had to take Care of, Houseguards where Trained Common soldier veterans or as said Low Born Nobles with Plate Armor and mostly Polearms.
What I genuinely don't understand about old world is that GW set it inbetween Magnus the Pious and Karl Franz, meaning that most characters that got a boost of popularity through Total War won't be there, and no Magnus or Asavar Kul for people who know the old lore. EDIT : checked again it's BEFORE Magnus, my bad, still my point is the same
It is set before Magnus the Pious became emperor. They hinted in their latest article that Magnus will get a model and rules in the future. The same with Asavar Kul.
I also wouldn't be shocked if there was some strange copyright conflict against their own previous IP. Either something due to Totalwar, or some other contract oddity. I guess it also helps them get away from some of the old name characters (esp with the human factions like Bretonnia) that are obvious knock-offs of real world history and mythology and so harder to copyright.@@RevanR
I know the skeletons werent an issue for you, but i would like to call attention thier scaling problem. These models still have the massive bulky bones that dont jive with the more modern renditions of the undead. As an example, a skeletons head in this package is as big as a bretonian knights head with its helmet on. It wouldnt of taken too much tweaking from GW to fix the scaling. But instead, they just whipped out the old printing trays with no changes and said "here, just print this again. Theyll love it!". Just seems lazy.
In the Knights of the Grail book for WFRP they mentioned that knights can become part of another knight or lords household. That's when they wear their colours instead of their own. There's even art from way back when showing knights in matching colours. So it's a choice of if you want the variety of knights of the realm or a uniform household knight force, which would denote a very powerful lord or baron with many knights sworn to him personally.
I forsaw the death of warhammer when the Empire's magic item selection went from around 34 to about 9. It became clear they wanted to spend less time and money on old world via streamlining it. And while I will say the AOS models are high quality, I think they lack identity. Back in the day, if I saw a Warhammer fantasy model, I could tell that it was a warhammer model. Now the models lack a general setting tone, and the individual armies lack coherent themes. Wood elves now have half tree dudes that wear insects like jet packs. High elves now have kangaroo-lizard cavalry. The orks, sorry "urruks" look like they've all been redesigned to look like the white orc from The Hobbit movies.
@@frankfrankerson782 Uh, making new mounts like kangeroos for a faction is the exact opposite of generic. Let alone the Steampunk dwarves, reviving Einherjar, Avatar-like elves. In fact, AoS is far less generic than WHFB since the latter is just a copy of Tolkien concepts; except a little meaner, or advanced. Whether you like that or not is a different question, but by your own metric; WHFB is just lazy slop compared to AoS
@@stephenjenkins7971. Yeah, nah. It's still the lazy recycling of tropes. The older models at least have a history and reason for being part of the world, which FB had, unlike AOS which is literally nothing but a MOBA arena pretending to be a universe. Making crappy pokemon tier creatures doesn't stop it from being generic. They're not reinventing fantasy conventions or tropes, it's the same crap.
@@frankfrankerson782 I repeat; your argument applies far more to WHFB than AoS. The latter actually makes changes to the standard fantasy formula, while WHFB runs with the standard. This isn't a bad thing, but your logic is contradictory. And how isn't WHFB also a MOBA anyway? It's a child's war game. Let's be honest.
Warhammer Fantasy. A grounded world... We ARE talking about the same world with a billions-strong civilization of atompunk cannibal ratmen living in the underworld who haven't yet conquered anything because they are such fuckups that Starscream from the Transformers would turn his nose up at them? The world where armies of orcs & goblins roam literally every bloody where with infinite resources and numbers despite having less social skills than a Stone Age human tribe? The world where the elves live on a literal shattered island only kept stable and above the water by epic-level magic? The world where lizardmen with stone weapons can cut a steel-armored knight AND his horse in half with one stroke? The world where tooth decay may legitimately be due to parasitic worms living in your mouth? The world with swamp-dwelling giant octopuses and leeches the size of anacondas? The world where dwarfs build beer-powered gyrocopters and can create volcanic eruptions by banging on a rune-encrusted anvil? The world where ancient frogs the size of small ogres are the last living remnants of a time when god-like beings shaped the world? Warhammer Fantasy was NEVER low fantasy. The EMPIRE was low fantasy. The rest of the world was high fantasy as (censored)!
The dismpunted knights are not that bad, i know lore wose the knight and the mount are almost one , but the knights of Bretonnia are not stupid, they know in situations such as a tunnel, or inside a house they will have to fight ok foot, so if a battlefield demands it, they wont let their pride go against the better judgment of their commander who they are swore to obey
He's simply talking from sheer stupidity and his lack of ability to read anything beyond a wikipedia entry. Bretonnian Knights have zero qualms about fighting on foot, They even went with the correct thing and made sure it's *Knights of the Realm* who are on foot, the Knightly group sworn to defend the lands most. Questing Knights would be far too busy roaming on horseback and Knights Errant are far too young and level headed to understand the practicality of fighting on foot.
@@grimnir8872 Knights on Foot are more or less unrealistic, look at it From our history, GW back in the 80. anyway just used ctrl + c and then strl + v. Most Knights where never on Foot, super rare and uncommon, as shown in the 100 Years war most Knigts where always on horseback also most Knight orders only Fought on horseback, what we Call "Foot Knigts" where normaly not Knigts because Knigt is a Title not a job, House Guards where Low rank nobles or Veteran soldiers in the best gear some one could by, knights almost Never Fought on foot only if forced to or if they had no other choice, pure Historicly spoken, Sure knights will jump off and fight in foot but only if they had to never from the beginning. they should just had called them House guard instead of Foot knights
they should of been house hold troops / man at arms medival armies have semi professionals soldiers' to occupancy their lord. this like stepp warriors going on foot advantages mout soldier gives makes them to valuable to risk in shock infantry exscaley knights are very expensive society without naturals horse riders.
@@TEXASAXE Oh look, someone who knows absolutely fuck all about history; The 100 years war has dozens of examples of knights very specifically dismounting before battle because tactically, Horses are a finite resource, and losing a dozen horses would basically deny you your cavalry for later battles. It's also quoted at Agincourt, both English and French knights went on foot to "and always a great number of gentlemen did so in order that the common soldiers might be reassured and fight better" Which is EXACTLY what the foot knights of the realm do.
@@grimnir8872 Depending what you call "Battle" the 100 Year war where mostly fought on Skirmishes as far as i know, and the 100 Year war was long, big battles where not as common mostly sieges and Raids and Small scale Battles, most things i know are from german Sorces like the German Knight Order and German States who used there Heavy Cav To Greate extend, and many many years Knights where in the Heavy cav role to Flank or crush enemy lines, that is what they used to do, dismounting ment giving up speed, i would like some sorces so i can read my self in to it, the 100 Year war is not my nr 1 expert area it is more Germany and the German Knight Order who almost only Fought on Horse back there entire Order Tactics was Based on horse Tactics like most knightly orders, i know that the 100 Year war the heavy cav became less and less usefull and the end Because Pike Formation where a Thing at the end, and i know that the French lost a lot of knights against long bow Formation but that is what i know
Yes and no. Yes the heraldy makes no sense as it was always portrayed as a big mixture of everything and it made sense. No as Engllish do used some foot knights in battles. Remember Bretonne is a mixture of 100 years war France and England. Thats why You get now a twohanded footknights. Also as someone from Poland I can assure You also the Winged Hussars fought on foot when needed. Not with lance but rather with musket and whatever weapon was suitable at the moment, On top of this in Warhammer siege we had foot knights even in the past editions of WHFB. The rant is unnescesary.
On one hand it does feel nice to see the Old World back again, but at the same time there’s still a sour taste in people’s mouths from the End Times happening and until that event gets removed from existence I don’t see many people coming back even with this.
GW: "Actually the Age of Myth refers to another dimension where Sigmar came from and its fall was just chaos propaganda." r/Sigmarxism: "How could they do this to our franchise?!"
@@SirBrasstion 1) Sigmarxism is too tiny to care about. 2) AoS is way too profitable for GW to risk pissing off. If anything, GW has doubled down and consistently called the Old World the "World of Legends" or some crap.
Isn't this set like 400 years before the previous old world? A lot can change in that time. Maybe it was cool to wear the Barons colours for young knights, maybe poorer knights fought on foot, or knights that decided to lead the infantry? As far as I'm aware Knights of the Realm will still be core, you can still do an entire army of mounted Knights... so they aren't an off-brand Empire.
GW still wants too much for every box. 3D printers are so cheap now, they can cost the same as a GW box and sometimes do. It makes no sense at all to me to even contemplate buying their product.
i have been 3d printing since july. GW just cant compete against it. there are leman russ proxies in every tank imaginable for €15 per file. print 5 tanks, the money you saved on the tanks already paid for the printer
They should make digital files that are not the same as the boxed ones and sell both. Seems like a good compromise and savvy business sense. But nah, full steam ahead.
@@grinningtiki220 Mantic Games started doing that, especially with their newer stuff. I haven't bought any, but I don't understand why GW isn't. Aside from the obvious.
That drab colour scheme makes the Bretonnians look more like an Imperial Knightly Order than the chevaliers of The Lady. Even if you're putting the knights in a common colour scheme (to represent allegiance to a common liege lord perhaps), at least individualise them with their heraldry. And the paint scheme on those Pegasus Knights does not do those charming old models justice. Pegusi in dove grey. That's what comes of hiring fans of the product, rather than people with a hinterland beyond it.
As a former TK/Bret (only) player, GW waited way too long to ever lure me back in. They were so insistent for so long that AoS was the one and only fantasy setting that I eventually came around to take them at their word. I got over it, and have no desire to go back. The massive price hike makes it even more certain that I'll never collect again.
Slight counterpoint, this is clearly not a siege. Your argument would be better if there was some terrain included, but this appears to be an open field battle. And yes, they use foot knight in sieges. I've read that. But they are extremely rare, and they'd rather keep them mounted in 99% of situations. Which he touches on, actually.
@@numbere329 We have accounts in literally every war that Knights would regularly fight on foot to preserve their mounts. You and Arch are historically illiterate.
@grimnir8872 That's a complete strawman, and you know it. No one has made the argument that real knights didn't fight on foot at any point in history. The entire argument is that in Warhammer fantasy (key word being "fantasy" meaning "not real"), these specific knights don't usually fight on foot. Please debate what I actually said, and don't just resort to insults. It's unbecoming.
@@numbere329 Oh fuck off, I am not here to coddle a bunch of simps for a wikipedia reading idiot. Arch himself tries to apply the "Muh history" analogy in his own video. and besides, Bretonnians have never been "100% mounted knights all the time" because their entire range had foot knights apart from ONE EDITION.
They acknowledge the heraldry issue in the very recent interview. TL;DR They know about the background of each KOTR, but this is just easier to paint. Doesn't meant it's a good thing, but the rest of the interview talks about how they plan to do things in the Age of Legends, especially issues like gunpowder tech, exiled Bretonnians, etc.
ah bretonia, it's an army of horses. you have a bunch of hoity toity nobles in the heaviest armory just so they get that sweet sweet 2+ save and then have the horses beat the ever loving crap out of everything from chaos knights to dragons. while the knights with all their lances do precisely jack.
Sadly I wanted a 9th edition that retconned out the awful end times. Can't see myself buying models and getting invested in the setting as long as End Times still happens.
Why? Things end. You will die. The world will end. Are you not gonna live just because you know you will die? Are you not going to get invested in a relationship because you know they will die. Things are finite. Get used to it.
@@RealmDesigner ... because I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars and dozens of hours assembling an army to a dead setting that will most likely not have that big of a playerbase to play with, because it's a dead setting
Its simple math. If it sells it gets retconed. You dont buy it then its a dead game soon enough. People bitched when they killed it. People bitch when they bring it back. People like to bitch. It was never going to be the same as thoes people aren't with the company anymore. Other people have different ideas.
You know that nobody forces you to adopt any other setting than the one you love, right? It's like D&D players complaining about new editions while they still have material for years and years to play with. It's the same with WH. With the previous editions (and i include novels and other canon sources) you still have years and years to play. Just don't buy new editions. You and your own head are creating issues. GW is just doing what every big IP / company should do : making money.
Instead of foot knights why didnt they just buff the men at arms give them better models and then have units of levy spearmen and levy militia?. Also one of those foot knights is defintly a women sculpt
i painted an army of bretonnians using fireforge models. after 30 knights, some repetition in the paint schemes will start to happen. and a lot of heraldry that contains coat of arms are a bitch to paint free-handing. there is some merit to that argument, especially for people starting on the hobby
GW said the Grail Knights will still be painted by as each having their own colours and heraldry. Also, you don't have to copy the 'Eavy Metal team guys.
Knights quite frequently fought dismounted in real life- either because of the terrain (sieges, especially, and maybe broken terrain like forests or mountains). Plus the English, who made strategies around their longbows, liked to fight dismounted so they could stick closer to them and protect them. I don’t see any problem whatsoever with Foot Knights, even though they weren’t in the game previously (and honestly, I always thought they should be as a concession to realism). The color scheme thing also is perfectly believable- knights did sometimes use the heraldry of a higher ranking lord or house. Plus, apparently they said it was fine to paint them in individual color schemes, so I’m fine with that. What bugs me is the Skeleton Dragon... the Tomb Kings aren’t Necromancers! They don’t awaken the spirit of just any being and bring it back to its body, only the souls of fallen Nehekharan warriors (which they bind to their bodies or stone statues like Ushabti). Plus, skeleton dragons just seem really off-brand from an aesthetics point- they’re supposed to be undead Egyptians, dragons just seem like an insert from the Vampire Counts because GW wanted something new couldn’t be bothered to stay true to the lore. Should have given us an updated, newly kitted out, plastic Tomb Scorpion instead. I don’t mind the changes to the Bretonnians, but I’m still quite skeptical about this whole project. I’ll reserve final judgement for now though.
No knights dit not fight on foot commonly, not at all, ok depending on the time and age, when we talk 100 years war then no, when we talk Viking age then yes. Knights where always heavy cav, that was there job. Wasting knights to protect archers something man at arms could to or levys is just a waste. I talk big massive battles. Back in the day there where 3 main battle types. Skirmishes, the most common small scale battles, yea there is was more common to dismount when the terrain said no or other factors limited the use of horses, and why dismount? Even spearwalls had no chance against heavy cav, that is why they later on used pikes. Then there are field battles the less common battles. Mostly those happens because the enemy held an important position, and there knights dit only dismount if there horse died OR the terrain said no again. And sieges, yeah horses are super useless a group of pikes would destroy knights on horses that is why polearms or two handed swords where used something big atleast, not sword and shield, swords where backup weapon or duel weapon, most knights used hammer and pole weapons. Also proven by reports of the Ordo Teutonicus (German knights) and knights Templar, order reports stated there extensive use of horses and horse tactics, the Teutonic knights even had there own men at arms to fill the und role for them
While I do like uniform coloring schemes, I can see both your and Arch's points as being true. The vassal patron(or vassal senior?) system can be complicated. And it's basically, do as you like. Maybe Brionne requires such way of color coding? We haven't seen Couronne or Carcassonne or what have you yet. And I have nothing against it. Now, TKs? Yeah, this frightens me. Even the Bone Giant was a bridge too far imo. Bone Dragon? What is this? TKs are NOT Necromancers! And Settra isn't that utilitarian anyhow. He's so arrogant, egoist and proud that he simply wants to conquer or defeat you. You dead? You stay dead. Mortuary Cult shenanigans are only for the privileged ones. Why would enemies have any privileges? And if they give Necromancy spells to TKs ... INSTANT OUCH! Why? What's the full name of TOW TKs? Tomb Kings of Khemri, yes? And Khemri(and its defacto ruler, Settra) remember Nagash very well. Remember, instead of the glorious Golden Afterlife(or some such) that they were working towards(Khatep in specific), Nagash instead woke them up as bunch of skelly boys. Not to mention Nagash's antics way back when. Overall, I am ... I need to get more info before I pass my judgment, but it's not looking good.
@@RambleOn07 do you have a sorce on that? not that i dont Trust you, i like to learn something new, Because MOST knights where Horse only entire Knight orders fought only on horse back
I'm not a Fantasy lore nerd, and don't know what any of those are, but I do know GE has said they're setting this relaunch just before Magnus's reign as emperor(with plans for him to get a model?), so if that means anything to you, judge that.
Knights of the Realm are NOT major nobility. They are minor nobles who form the lowest rung of Bretonnia's landed nobility. Their domains are very small (rarely having more than just a single village to lord over) and they serve the titled lords of Bretonnia's high nobility (barons, counts, dukes etc.) who rule much larger domains. So while they technically are lords (and do have their own heraldry, as rightfully pointed out), they aren't really lords of much. They are minor nobility, not major ones. Knights Errant are generally younger members of Bretonnia's nobility who have yet to proof themselves. Unlike the Knights of the Realm, they are not a seperate class or rank of nobility. Both members of major and minor noble families will be expected to serve as Knight Errant at some point in their life. The son of a duke and the son of a simple landed knight will both be Knights Errant despite being from families with very different feudal ranks. Both Knights Errant and Knights of the Realm are generally in service to a higher-ranking knight or a titled lord. Even lords themselves often serve greater lords all the way up the feudal pyramid until you get to the Royarch, who himself serves the Lady of the Lake.
This always bothered me with the multicolored heraldry on both sides of the spectrum. Youre telling me this army with lets say 32 knights of the realm all 32 of them come from different small villages and have no connection or training with each other can ride in perfect formation with each other. You're also telling me this Grail Knight or Duke has no family or knights under his command who bear his colors in a feudel society where family and climbing the social ladder by serving a great lord or being born in a noble house is so important. And it also doesn't really let you do the whole family house thing which is one of the big appeals of these medieval fantasy setting like with ASOIF.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 He implied they were all major landholders. I'm not arguing about the heraldry, though if I remember correcting it wasn't unusual for knights from the same area to have some things in common with one another. Certainly, they didn't all wear the same things.
Huge Bretonnian fanboy here. I don't think the Knights being uniform is all *that* big of a deal because you could just handwave it away as them being a Bretonnian order of crusaders. But on the other hand, the varied knights of many beautiful colors are the centerpiece of Bretonnian identity, so I get your gripe there. While I am more irritated by the foot knights, that's still not really as big of an issue for me, seeing as there are more situations besides being unhorsed when a knight might have to accept fighting afoot. On top of that, there was the Vow of Humility in the old rulebook that let a knight fight on foot, but there werent really any models to represent that. That said, it would certainly have been better if GW had made some models of the Foot Squires that appeared in the Total War game. Much more appropriate tbh. My main real complaint is that the big Enchantress model is astride her horse like some wanton Wood Elf harlot rather than sidesaddle like a trueborn noble lady. Regarding the book you mentioned bringing in 21st century politics, I know its being written by Graham McNeil, so I was already not really planning on checking it out. Having heard what you said about it, I am definitely not reading that shit.
Foot Squires is an awful unit from the lore perspective. Bretonnian knights don't have squires, and often mock knights of the Empire for such an inglorious career start
The heavy infantry should just be Mercenaries or bastard sons of nobility. I think that would solve the lore issue here, like they need to earn their horse in battle to become recognized and accepted in Bertonnian noble society. Not sure if that would fly because I wasn’t that big into them and I started WHFB right before they blew it up.
They have always had foot knights, they served a roll of carrying heavy weapons. They were hardly ever used and just seemed a knockoff of empire greatswords.
@@wmdragonj Well first, Arch is a notorious wiki reader and actually engages with books very rarely. Secondly, Foot Knights have existed in Bretonnia far longer than they didn't exist, which is to say exactly one battle tome, 6th edition. The same edition that just so happened to make the lance formation not a wedge but a weird square, but I don't see Arch crying about that.
Interesting. I want to start by saying, yes, you are right about the Knights of the Realm are supposed to have their own heraldry as they are all lords of some renown. On the other hand, I did not follow that philosophy for my own Bretonnian army. I made my Knights Errant and Knights of the Realm of the same heraldry for 2 reasons. 1) The color design and colors of the heraldry I chose for my core knight units was very cool. I made it a simplified version my General's Heraldry. The lore I chose was that these were especially beholden to my General due to the core (not all of my Knights of the Realm btw) were recruited from peasantry and earned their positions through being squires, then mounted squires, then Knights Errant, and finally Knights of the Realm. I did have Knights of the Realm with normal Bretonnian lore heraldry join the army as needed for that scenario. All my Questing and Grail Knights had their unique Heraldry, as per normal lore. 2) I was new to the hobby, and wanted a color scheme and design I could somewhat assembly-line. Although I appreciate the skill and art of panting figures, I really never enjoyed it. I found it boring and a chore. So, if I could find a quick fix by bending the lore a little for my particular units, I was happy to do so. As for foot Knights. I wanted a unit of foot knights for two reasons. First, I wanted them on foot to handle scenarios when they were on castle walls or fighting inside buildings. These situations do arise at times depending on scenario. A friend of mine had a wonderful castle model. And it was a great and fun time having my Bretonnian army defend that castle. Second, I had in mind a Hero character that was a great leader of the people, and would, at times, directly lead a unit of men-at-arms from their front rank, on foot. Just a unique character concept.
The article they posted today actually said in no uncertain terms that the order of operations was that GW wanted to remove Skaven from the game, as well as VC, and then chose a time period they felt facilitated that goal. Their priority, though, was to remove Skaven from the game. In addition, it's also worth noting when they posted an article talking about how they're "changing who can be a knight" and then have women everywhere in the knight units, and today's article with "actually there were always tons of Steam Tanks, all the people from the setting you like were just really stupid and dumb...and by the way, have you seen the far bigger and better Primaris(tm) Steam Tank?!?" Edit: Got to the end of the video and he acknowledged the second of my three points, but the other two are still quite significant.
It's insane that these companies are so obsessed with hiring people that want to drive them out of business. The VC, especially under Vlad, are my favorite faction.
@@diggytablet I assume the Skaven might be over them not wanting an army that doubles in both OW and AoS, and they want you buying a whole new army? but then Vampire Counts don't make sense since the AoS equivalent are radically different and thus require a diffrent model line with little overlap...
Old world's going to be a sacrifice to the left cultists. "What could go wrong?" thinks GW, "It's an IP we're not making money on. Give them an inch, I'm sure they won't take a mile". 😂
I don’t like some of the looks of the new models. I think AoS could very well bleed into the Old World models. Biggest reason being Cities of Sigmar and how the OG Empire/Dark Elf/ and whatever is left of the High and Wood Elf lines.
The uniform heraldry was used historicaly for an order, so it is plausible to have those regiments too. But on a big campain of a King or so, they would have looked more diverse. So both is historicaly rooted and should be an option for the player to decide.... regarding the foot knights, England was known for their knights on foot fighting style. So historicaly plausible.... no problem here
They probably went with Bretonnia and Tomb Kings because they (especially Bretonnia) got massively shafted in Age of Skub... Sigmar Now... consider this - starter army for a "new" old system, and you get Bretonnia, which, considering each knight's unique heraldry would be excessively difficult to paint. And an excessively difficult to paint starter army is something... not desirable. That is probably the actual reason why the lore bit states that the Knights may present themselves in colour of the lord the are gathered under - which, honestly is not the worst idea from a newbie painter perspective and it appears lore friendly enough (I even have a faint memory of something similar being a thing in the old Warhammer) - though perhaps introduction of simple orders of chivalry would be better. Or the bug with Bretonnian Knights being unicolor somehow magicked its way from Warhammer Total War 3 into the real world.
I hope when the Bretonnia book drops, it's like that scene at the end of GoT where the small council is deciding what to do now that the Queen is dead; someone proposes a representative democracy, and everyone collectively laughs before getting back to the actual business of running the realm.
Horus Heresy 2.0 was an excellent release and great game, and im hoping that old world is as well done. My only bugbear is them re using ancient models and likely charging a bloody fortune for them
with the Brets what if the uniformity could be like a Crusades thing? got a feeling with the tomb kings being the opposing faction got a feeling the Brets are on a Crusade kinda taking up the cross sort of thing
It's the opposite, The Crusade lists would be dozens of individual knights fighting for their own glory. The uniformed armies are an Army united under a particular Lord for a singular purpose, considering the time period, it could be a thing to do with the False Grail.
@@grimnir8872 possibly aye am not too clued in to the deep lore on fantasy when I started getting serious in to fantasy was during a time shortly before the "event" that spawned age of sigmar lets just say at the time I was only ever able to get hold of a damsel on foot and a paladin with a banner before they all gotten yeeted Arch has made a few good points however I been hearing crusades and crusaders floating about with these 2 boxes, that's the only thing I can think of for the uniformity however when I get that Bret box am just gonna paint them how I want lol
the article released today stated you can still paint them the old way and that there will be rules for crusading knights as well, this video was most likely recorded before the article was out
Yeah, I got into the hobby after they hit the ol’ exterminatus to Fantasy so the idea that they dredge up the still decomposing corpse from the depths is absolutely bananas. How terrible is Sigmar doing if this is even a consideration?
Sigmar's doing pretty good actually. I'm assuming the sole reason they're bringing the old world back is because of total war. I've heard a lot of people say total war got them interested in the fantasy/gw setting to only have sigmar available. I never got the chance to play fantasy as I started my warriors of chaos army half way through the end times books. So I let most of that army quietly rest unassembled in a box. Glad I did as I don't have to swap as many bases. I'm genuinely excited at a chance to try fantasy as I've gotten more and more into the lore and books of the setting since I started to collect.
@@frederickflores8152 100%. Anyone who thinks they've dug TOW up because AoS is performing poorly is consuming copium. They've dug it up because there has been a Renaissance for WHF lore since the late 2010s in the form of video games. They are leaving money on the table by letting this IP rot when this Renaissance is still ongoing.
While at least Fantasy is returning to some extent I still don't like that they veered towards a prequel when they could have just brought back regular fantasy by just retconning that shit stain called the end times, maybe it's just me but I don't feel like the old world will have much longevity, like why should I care about this prequel when I already know that the end times are still canon and it all means nothing? I can understand how someone who likes the tabletop would be excited but as someone who's only interested in the books, games and lore I see the old world as more of a missed opportunity then anything. Also the Skaven are the undisputed best race, not making them a launch race is a big mistake Yes-yes.
I agree with Arch gor the most part, except, in the old lore, Katarin was not the singular Lore of Ice caster. Kislev had 2 lores of magic: the Lore of Ice and the lore of Hags. All Kislevite women who drew the winds of magic to them would would have been cloistered and taught to be frost maidens and later ice witches. All male would-be mages were to be killed.
I have to disagree on the foot knights take, Bretonnia as a faction was incredibly stagnant with what you could build an army with simply because knights were the only real hitter and were used the same no matter the army composition and player, having a single solid infantry option is all too welcome and honestly feels like something that shouldve been kept from early additions moving forward. Noone wants Bret to start adopting firearms, but it always felt like the faction was left behind due to not having new units added, even if they could make it make sense within the faction it never happened. Foot knights just need a "vow of empathy" label slapped on them and now they are knights who think that empathy just means walking on the same ground peasants do is showing compassion for them, or they are defenders of the temples and to do this they have forgone their horse, because its was always really silly that Brett apparently brings its horses inside houses when fighting. I wholey agree with the color scheme though, thats a big part of the faction aesthetic and is a pretty major oversight.
I was recomended a 7 year old vid by arch about betonians, are we in a ring story telling arch? Bretonians vs tomb kings is a bit odd but I remember one box set was bretonians and lizardmen, so stone age lizards and the more backwards humans who live across oceans who are not known for adventuring too far. Tomb kinds and brets are regions away, like france is to egypt but its a bit more feasable. I assumed the grail quests were more local, but does lady of the lake send knights on quests and crusades all around the world? "the grail is in the tomb of amkapatakan"
Agree on the uniform heraldry. Somewhat disagree on foot knights, I think there should be the option to take "dismounted knights" primarily for sieges, maybe somehow limit the number you can take or something. Definetely do not like the fact that some of the new knights are women. I'm guessing the price for these 6th edition models (im convinced that except the foot knights and the characters they are all the same as back then) will be enough to pay a years worth of bills. Some people have mentioned 3d printing but there are other companies that have hard plastic fantasy, I mean you only need GW minis if you intend to play at an official GW location.
I dug up my old fantasy models; prolly going to have to rebase them and find a place to play in time. Kinda also want to pick up some Wood Elves and make a small force with them to go with this old treeman I found in my boxes of extra mini's once those come out. Biggest issue my elves have is going to be that I have no idea what I'm doing and since I have a batallion sized set of spearmen/archers I'm going to be annoyed by the lack of a 5 man frontline for those units. Wonder if I can find like... 4 spearmen, 4 archers somewhere. >_>;
The old world is based on Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melinbone. In those novels, a similar ending took place, and a new world emerged from Chaos engulfing the world.
I have to push back here a little bit but you can't seriously tell me that AoS isn't a massive financial success. You can even make the strong case that currently AoS offers the best GW rule system next to Lord of the Rings.
I'm going to financially support it because I want to see more of it. If you like WHFB, might be well served to do the same. If not, then don't. The prices are going to be fair if you care about quality. They will be too much if you think a $60 box of knights is a hardship (and I sympathize). GW lost money on Fantasy and is once bitten, twice shy. I just hope that they give us more of the goodness we've seen lately. I'm pretty optimistic, boys lads boys.
On your Bretonia rant, its called changes and tweaks to the lore, and in my opinion a welcome one, makes them more interesting, easier to batch paint and opens up more possibilities
Peasants having ideas on feudalism: "We don't have a lord." "What? "I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week." Which, to be fair, would be more in line with old school, original GW Fantasy.
There being other ice witches than the Tzarina was already a thing in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. The lack of them on the tabletop was just due to Kislev not existing much on the tabletop in the first place, just as a very bare-bones supplement for allied contingents, not a proper army book in its own right. You're right though that having entire units where the rank and file has magical weapons is just jumping the shark. The only unit that ever had that in the old Warhammer Fantasy Battles were chaos knights, who were as elite as it gets without being characters in an already highly elite army, and who have a perfect in-lore reason to have better access to magical weapons than anyone else, as the favoured of the Chaos gods.
I never got the chance to play Fantasy since I got in after the End Times with AoS. I am excited for The Old World (I have an Empire Army and a High Elf army mostly ready to go). Yes hearing this stuff does concern me but what concerns me more is that they are releasing two boxes one for the Bretonnians and one for the Tomb Kings each worth almost as much if not more than the starter boxes for their other games which have two factions so you can split the box with a friend and not pay as much. The saving grace is each box contains more than 1k points of each army so that’s nice. I do want this game to do well and I think it will but I do have my concerns
-hero- on -giant mount- was always a thing. Dreadlord on Black Dragon, Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon, etc. Not sure why you'd put a support caster on the bone dragon, but they did suggest replacing the liche priest with a tomb king on your bone dragon so that's fine.
In defence of lack of individuality of Knights, gw did say at that point in the setting, it wasn't there for the Knights. Foot Knights makes sense for the mountainous baronys and dutchys like in the pale sisters and Montfort its stated horses aren't optimal and some of those Knights are poor in some source books. I am excited but at the same time wasn't in the hobby when fantasy was around, so not used to the expectations of the past.
Since GW don't care about the lore anyway, I'm going to pretend this is set in the post-end times where the ordertide won and now the Old World worry about the Empire's expansionist zeitgeist. Bretonnia, Tilea and Dwarven Holds were part of Sigmar's realm since ancient times.
i mean bretonia has always been the we do cavalry faction. grail knights, knights of the realm Pegasus knights, questing knights, yeomen horsemen, knights errant are all still there so as far as i can see they are keeping that identity. With the new flee from combat system allowing units to break but not flee having a heavily armoured decent leadership option isnt actually a bad thing. lore friendly or not the foot knights are sign of gw actually thinking about the game mechanics which i would put priority on over trying to brute force an all in just cav faction for sake of but "Bretonia only does horse things"
I can’t believe Arch would use his skaven slaves so callously. What did they do to deserve such a treatment aside from being made/born slaves and not being mean enough and big enough to become storm vermin.
Really disappointed with the Tomb Kings box. It's going to be $290 US for 93 models that are mostly old enough to drink( in the case of the horses, old enough to see their kids off to Middle School). That bone dragon centerpiece monstrosity is something I'm never going to want to have to transport ever. It was also completely unnecessary as anybody interested in Tomb Kings wanted a Necrosphinx or Heirotitan. I'm glad we're getting the Necrosphinx. But if they're going to design a new model, we've been waiting 10 years for a Heirotitan. What the hell, james.
re: 16:00 - Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! What I want from Old World is Total War: Warhammer armies that I can paint. Let GW contort themselves all they like, as long as we reach that end state, I don't care how they justify it within the lore.
It reminds me of how I went to see a play here in Arizona at the university. It was supposed to be "Excalibur" and King Arthur was apparently a great king because he really wanted socialism (no, I'm not kidding). Somehow it still managed to follow the plot of the movie more or less. At any rate, if they are going to go full progressive, I wonder if they will introduce the idea of transgender Orks, and how their society will just just have all of these Orks who randomly decide that they resemble men, but some of them suddenly feel these feminine urges by finding other genders among other species. Or how they will realize they are Aesexual and go into berserker rampages over having that mislabeled by other factions. Just imagine their sourcebook with a giant cross dressing warboss, and two orcs hugging each other, while a poetry slam is going on in the background under a banner that reads "Don't label us". The preamble can all be about breaking stereotypes. Oh sure, I won't buy it, but I will laugh at it. Never did much Warhammer Fantasy, but my army was The High Elves, I think it might have been 2nd edition back when the minis were still metal, they transitioned them to plastic a bit after I got into it, which was a big part of why I quit as I found that annoying.
War hammer gate keeping was never successful- the only wall you had was the PRICE. I’ve been thinking for a while now, since I fled my hobbies and took up war hammer, the infection vector will be the books…. I think I am right.
Foot Knights have been part of Bretonnian lore, even after the ye olden days of 3rd Edition. They were mentioned in the Knights of Bretonnia Omnibus, and specifically it was cited that they'd be the ones manning castle walls during sieges, bellowing orders to the Men-At-Arms and maintaining their morale. They're still an exceedingly rare sight in most parts of Bretonnia, but the Dukedom of Montfort still made use of them, as Foot Knights had an easier time navigating the Grey Mountains than their mounted counterparts would. So I don't mind Foot Knights being a unit in the Old World.
But yes, the lack of diverse heraldry is concerning, since the bright colorful and dare I say, diverse livery is a major appeal to Bretonnia, showing off that they're not just soldiers in uniform (like what's commonly seen in the Empire), but rather a gathering of noble warriors, each one a special character in his own right.
And that old metal miniature of the Grail Knight on foot with his hammer raised mid-swing was an absolute classic piece back in the day.
Knights will have their own heraldry for common use, but in large battles will don the heraldry of their liege for ease of identification on the battlefield. Side note; part of heraldry for lesser nobility included reference to whom the noble served, so it would actually make sense for a Knight of Brionne to have black and red fields on his heraldry - they would just be in different patterns with different blazons for the different nobles. More specifically, Questing Knights WOULDN'T have their own heraldry as they set aside their family claims as part of their Quest for the Lady (it's happened a couple times where a noble son was forbidden from taking the Questing Vow because it would leave his family heirless and his lands leaderless) so they'd all be forced to wear the Lord's colors (or none at all). Grail Knights could take up their own heraldry, or a completely different one, I feel like out of all the types of Knight, Grail Knights wouldn't give a flying frell what heraldry they wear. If anyone in a Bretonnian army would have mismatched heraldry, it'd be the Grail Knights. The others... are they really "Special Characters"? REEEALLY?
The concept of a foot knight in itself is really dumb. If you're wealthy enough to walk around in plate armor you're wealthy enough to own a horse lol. They're really just a knight whose dismounted for reasons or another. It's not like they're glued to their horses lol
@@Acesahn Foot knights were also something for the Siege rules if I remember right where they were, essentially, a discounted version of some of the other knights. Mainly because you were expected to dump the freed up points on other things to fortify with.
The foot knights being part of it seems like it might put the siege rules into the main rules for Old World.
What do you think of the new miniature design? For me their proportions seems off, chest look way to wide, the foot looks too big and they seems to be mix gendered, but the female head on that body looks very dumb. But why even have female heads, female knights should be exception not norm. I have no faith in the new model lines.
Killing off warhammer fantasy was painful. God i loved that setting. I'll never forgive GW for the end times.
To me this half hearted attempt by GW, is like a scolded child that has to do something they didn't want to do.
i still get confused why they released two very good video games, vermintide and total war warhammer AFTER axing the setting because those two games gave warhammer fantasy a huge boost into the public brain space that it never really had before. i swear had GW waited a few years old warhammer fantasy wouldn't have to go
They gave lore justifications for having both uniform and individual heraldry for Bretonnian knights. Essentially, the knights can either show fealty to their duke by wearing his heraldry or display their own colours. The new lore suggests that crusading armies will have a mix of knights from across Bretonnia, and therefor have a mix of colours for that reason.
Of course, the real reason is for creating a valid option for those that find it too difficult to paint mixed heraldry.
I quite like that explanation, actually. I’m currently working on a (real world) Holy Roman Empire army, and doing each of my knights and their retinue in unique colors is quite fun to me. However, I can easily see why lots of people who don’t have 10 years of experience would find that quite frustrating to try to do. Plus, I think it makes some sense- if I recall, real knights did sometimes use heraldry from a house or higher ranking noble they owed allegiance to I believe, so the explanation is perfectly passable.
@@lordvarrax5060my guess it's corporate saying "just get it out the door"
@@lordvarrax5060 Yes, having each knight and retinue in different colors is all nica and dandy. Up to the point where you want to bring a larger army of say 50 Knights. And you realize, that the standard Heraldic color choices will only go so far. Then you start putting on the different emblems by freehand, as there are not stickers for them any more. Oh, the memories...
I can’t wait for the insane prices of the re-released old fantasy kits.
The good news is that theses are releases, time to make a quest to eBay, hurrah! ! !
@@stevenmcgrath5114ha ha, or find a friendly chinaman with a 3D printer.
@@stevenmcgrath5114 GW: Re-releases old minis.
Narrator: "The OOP scalpers market will remember that."
They are indeed rather insane in the land of aus the tomb kings box is $490
@@Bryanchaos3 holy shidd,
In one hand I do appreciate their good will of reviving old IP, in other hand its how GW take care their IP worrying me how it will fare in the future
I mean, im of the opinion that they dont care at all and because there are enough people who are willing to pay way to much for their stuff, they have no respect at all for their "Pay Pigs".
The whole reason of the End Times and Age of Sigmar was: We want to make more Profit. How can we make People buy everything new from scratch?
Because they killed the Old world and handled the change from 1 Setting to the other with no care.
Then they recognized that not enough People took the bait and bringing the Old World back is also handled with the Question: How can we make everyone buy everything new and not invest much effort into it.
Answer: Re-Release the old stuff with some changes and dont care much if it fits the setting of that faction.
Also, the trend to make bigger Models and put more Details on it: Bigger Model and more stuff = can ask more money for the Model.
i mean sigmar is rubbish 40k is the same now. cant stand what they have become gw only good ip is heresy an fasntasy
Good will? My brother in Christ, they were the ones that mismanaged the hell out of Fantasy and killed it outright instead of fixing the issues they caused. If anything, much of TOW feels like it falls somewhere between a cynical cash-in on Fantasy's dogged relevance in the wider cultural consciousness, and a spiteful attempt to force Fantasy into a second and final grave.
If they were smart, they would've reintroduced the old world along with Total Warhammer. They could've reintroduced each army as it came out in the games. They didn't even need to hire competent writers, they could've just reintroduced the armies and have done very well.
Dude used good will and gw at same sentence, what a brave individual.
In my opinion, Bretonia and Tomb Kings were chosen for this as they do not exist in AoS. They want the game to have its own identity, and probably don't want to pull the minis they have spent years replacing back out of storage to compete with the AoS ones.
I highly suspect that if we ever get Araby they won't be a faction of absolutely decadent Sultans with enormous harems of lolis and a thriving slavetrade of Pygmies from the Southlands.
And this worries me for the future of the franchise.
There's no way they'd reintroduce the Pygmies without new sculpts and lots of self-flagellating regardless. I don't think they're keen on pulling the pin on that particular grenade though.
@@BlueSatoshi
I'd be fine with taking inspiration from European myths about far flung lands.
Like instead of just pygmies that there would be heavily deformed men further south.
Humans that have no head above their torso, mouths on the stomach, or walking on their hands.
But no seriously the Pygmies were a fun idea with their tamed gorillas. And how they aren't actually halflings and are indeed fully human.
I'd also be fine with an Ethiopian inspired civilization somewhere (not Wakanda though) as long as the primitives like the pygmies remained too.
I hope you're joking, otherwise this is one of the biggest neckbeard takes I've ever seen. Advocating pedophillia in Warhammer? Are you for real?
@@darken2417I've heard that a lot of sub-Saharan African mythology apparently revolves around their gods abandoning them, so maybe that could be reflected via the Old Ones somehow. They were originally sorta paired with the Lizardmen, plus the Southlands at the moment are basically Lustria but in not-Africa.
On that note, I read somewhere that the ingredients of southern Araby are described as having jet black skin, without them elaborating much further, so that would be another interesting avenue to take: Arabyan Pygmies and Southland Pygmies. Could be one way to make that part of the Warhammer world more unique.
@@darken2417 No amount of lore justification will ever make the pygmies come back. The political landscape has changed and they are way too obvious with their r*cist origin. Seriously, the fat pink lips and dark skin with barbarian clothing makes it a bomb.
One of the first units announced for TOW was crazy immersion breaking, the Kislev ice guard. They not only forgot that that Kislev already had a 'monarch's bodyguard' unit, but for some reason they are also one of the only mortal races with magic weapons.
If they release the ice sleds pulled by polar bears from TWW I swear to God...
@@Itisoverthere-rw then what? You gonna insta buy them?
But yeah. I am kinda worried by all these additions. Bone Dragons, Ice Guard etc etc.
@@goransekulic3671 Only if they come with Santa Claus.
GW actually adressed iconography issue in Bretonnia. They claim that they changed it because people felt overwhelmed with creating unique colors for each knight.
That was my thought but it sucks nonetheless.
Even CA cared to fix the bug when all the heraldries were the same lol
Nothing to stop people from painting them with different heraldry.
@@chriscongemi2109 That's not the point though
Bretonnia was one of the worst selling armies in WHFB. That's why they never got updates after 2003. I can see the color issue (although I will paint mine individually).
The Rock Fetish is GW Channeling Commander Riker's habit of Putting his leg up on anything
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I beg your pardon, but GW did feature Bretonnian armies with knights taking on the heraldry of their baron/duke back in the old days, while providing supporting lore captions for this sometimes practice.
I will of course buy the new box, gleeful with a multiplicity of different heraldry ideas to paint on each knight.
so they blew up the world i cared about, tried to sell me other crap and upped the price on that crap, and now they are crawling back... with the models even more expensive, and showing a lack of knowledge in why i liked the bretonnians? sod off, GW...
Less them crawling back and them getting one last cash grab. They do not at all seem repentant over destroying WHFB. Their mainlines in 40k and AoS are making them too much money to care.
@@stephenjenkins7971 yeah, even if it's supported, i already know it's going to be half hearted and they will forget the details i cared for.
Brettonia and Tomb Kings were great firsts since they didn’t really have Age of Sigmar equivalents
The problem is... both were (from my experience), 'C Tier' factions that didn't have too many fans. They strike me as odd choices for luring in new players. A great place to start could have been Vampire Counts or Orcs Vs Empire or Dwarves... they themselves say that the battle of Hel Fen has just taken place (Empire and Dwarves Vs Undead), but use it as an excuse to write the Vamps out of the setting, and Greenskins are always a threat.
Foot Knights lorewise make perfect sense as a unit to me as something that’s just realistic, of course you’d have knights on foot, they’re expert melee fighters who’ve been trained from birth, and if they refuse to fight on foot, that must make sieges, mountain fighting and frankly any difficult terrain an interesting prospect. But don’t call them Foot Knights, call them Dismounted Knights.
foot squires, man-at-arms. household troops, knight's retinue.
a lot of things that could fill this niche of knights on foot that would have a historical connection and would fit in with bretonnia.
feels like the historians who wrote fantasy have been kicked out for and replaced with Current-Year writers.
@@nickvanachthoven7252 Ah yes, I remember the Historical accuracy when the Bretonnian Vs Lizardmen box came out in 5th edition: Foot Knights were literally BEGGED for by actual bret players for years: We're sick of literal potato sack retards on foot and the idea of a full Knightly Army without needing to be all Cavalary WAS WANTED.
not so mutch even in our history they almost never dismounted, Knigts where always heavy Cav, that was there thing since was it Carl the greate? king of France and English Knights, also German Knights and Most Knight Orders like Knights templar and the Ordo Teutonicus (german Knight order) where almost only on Horseback, only Dismounting if they where forced to do so. or when they where in a Siege and there Horses of no use. House Guards where most of the Time Lower Nobles, not Knights. Knight was not a Job or a Discription it was a Title, a title with land you had to take Care of, Houseguards where Trained Common soldier veterans or as said Low Born Nobles with Plate Armor and mostly Polearms.
@TEXASAXE not to be that guy, but the title of Knight was the lowest rung of nobility.
How about ... Squires? Like in Total Warhammer.
0:33 Arch, Bretonia it is France, but with humans, remember the lore..
What I genuinely don't understand about old world is that GW set it inbetween Magnus the Pious and Karl Franz, meaning that most characters that got a boost of popularity through Total War won't be there, and no Magnus or Asavar Kul for people who know the old lore.
EDIT : checked again it's BEFORE Magnus, my bad, still my point is the same
What I do get from this, is that GW want fresh start with filling blank slate rather than "retelling" old lore
It is set before Magnus the Pious became emperor. They hinted in their latest article that Magnus will get a model and rules in the future. The same with Asavar Kul.
@@LordEsel88 Yup, rechecked and corrected myself in edit, did not know about the latest article and the hints either, I take my L.
@@victoriencharnot555 No need to take any letters. You corrected yourself and all's fine.
I also wouldn't be shocked if there was some strange copyright conflict against their own previous IP. Either something due to Totalwar, or some other contract oddity. I guess it also helps them get away from some of the old name characters (esp with the human factions like Bretonnia) that are obvious knock-offs of real world history and mythology and so harder to copyright.@@RevanR
I know the skeletons werent an issue for you, but i would like to call attention thier scaling problem. These models still have the massive bulky bones that dont jive with the more modern renditions of the undead. As an example, a skeletons head in this package is as big as a bretonian knights head with its helmet on. It wouldnt of taken too much tweaking from GW to fix the scaling. But instead, they just whipped out the old printing trays with no changes and said "here, just print this again. Theyll love it!". Just seems lazy.
Idk, I watched the ToW batrep on Warhammer tv and the armies looked fine together.
In the Knights of the Grail book for WFRP they mentioned that knights can become part of another knight or lords household. That's when they wear their colours instead of their own. There's even art from way back when showing knights in matching colours.
So it's a choice of if you want the variety of knights of the realm or a uniform household knight force, which would denote a very powerful lord or baron with many knights sworn to him personally.
I forsaw the death of warhammer when the Empire's magic item selection went from around 34 to about 9. It became clear they wanted to spend less time and money on old world via streamlining it.
And while I will say the AOS models are high quality, I think they lack identity. Back in the day, if I saw a Warhammer fantasy model, I could tell that it was a warhammer model. Now the models lack a general setting tone, and the individual armies lack coherent themes. Wood elves now have half tree dudes that wear insects like jet packs. High elves now have kangaroo-lizard cavalry. The orks, sorry "urruks" look like they've all been redesigned to look like the white orc from The Hobbit movies.
They became more generic by... being less generic?
@@grimnir8872. If you consider really lazy high fantasy slop remixes as less generic, then yes.
@@frankfrankerson782 Uh, making new mounts like kangeroos for a faction is the exact opposite of generic. Let alone the Steampunk dwarves, reviving Einherjar, Avatar-like elves. In fact, AoS is far less generic than WHFB since the latter is just a copy of Tolkien concepts; except a little meaner, or advanced.
Whether you like that or not is a different question, but by your own metric; WHFB is just lazy slop compared to AoS
@@stephenjenkins7971. Yeah, nah. It's still the lazy recycling of tropes. The older models at least have a history and reason for being part of the world, which FB had, unlike AOS which is literally nothing but a MOBA arena pretending to be a universe. Making crappy pokemon tier creatures doesn't stop it from being generic. They're not reinventing fantasy conventions or tropes, it's the same crap.
@@frankfrankerson782 I repeat; your argument applies far more to WHFB than AoS. The latter actually makes changes to the standard fantasy formula, while WHFB runs with the standard. This isn't a bad thing, but your logic is contradictory.
And how isn't WHFB also a MOBA anyway? It's a child's war game. Let's be honest.
Warhammer Fantasy. A grounded world... We ARE talking about the same world with a billions-strong civilization of atompunk cannibal ratmen living in the underworld who haven't yet conquered anything because they are such fuckups that Starscream from the Transformers would turn his nose up at them? The world where armies of orcs & goblins roam literally every bloody where with infinite resources and numbers despite having less social skills than a Stone Age human tribe? The world where the elves live on a literal shattered island only kept stable and above the water by epic-level magic? The world where lizardmen with stone weapons can cut a steel-armored knight AND his horse in half with one stroke? The world where tooth decay may legitimately be due to parasitic worms living in your mouth? The world with swamp-dwelling giant octopuses and leeches the size of anacondas? The world where dwarfs build beer-powered gyrocopters and can create volcanic eruptions by banging on a rune-encrusted anvil? The world where ancient frogs the size of small ogres are the last living remnants of a time when god-like beings shaped the world? Warhammer Fantasy was NEVER low fantasy. The EMPIRE was low fantasy. The rest of the world was high fantasy as (censored)!
GW: "we screw over our customers and don't ever fix an issue with the game/faction. Why does no one buy it? "
The dismpunted knights are not that bad, i know lore wose the knight and the mount are almost one , but the knights of Bretonnia are not stupid, they know in situations such as a tunnel, or inside a house they will have to fight ok foot, so if a battlefield demands it, they wont let their pride go against the better judgment of their commander who they are swore to obey
He's simply talking from sheer stupidity and his lack of ability to read anything beyond a wikipedia entry. Bretonnian Knights have zero qualms about fighting on foot, They even went with the correct thing and made sure it's *Knights of the Realm* who are on foot, the Knightly group sworn to defend the lands most. Questing Knights would be far too busy roaming on horseback and Knights Errant are far too young and level headed to understand the practicality of fighting on foot.
@@grimnir8872 Knights on Foot are more or less unrealistic, look at it From our history, GW back in the 80. anyway just used ctrl + c and then strl + v. Most Knights where never on Foot, super rare and uncommon, as shown in the 100 Years war most Knigts where always on horseback also most Knight orders only Fought on horseback, what we Call "Foot Knigts" where normaly not Knigts because Knigt is a Title not a job, House Guards where Low rank nobles or Veteran soldiers in the best gear some one could by, knights almost Never Fought on foot only if forced to or if they had no other choice, pure Historicly spoken, Sure knights will jump off and fight in foot but only if they had to never from the beginning. they should just had called them House guard instead of Foot knights
they should of been house hold troops / man at arms medival armies have semi professionals soldiers' to occupancy their lord.
this like stepp warriors going on foot advantages mout soldier gives makes them to valuable to risk in shock infantry exscaley knights are very expensive society without naturals horse riders.
@@TEXASAXE Oh look, someone who knows absolutely fuck all about history; The 100 years war has dozens of examples of knights very specifically dismounting before battle because tactically, Horses are a finite resource, and losing a dozen horses would basically deny you your cavalry for later battles. It's also quoted at Agincourt, both English and French knights went on foot to "and always a great number of gentlemen did so in order that the common soldiers might be reassured and fight better" Which is EXACTLY what the foot knights of the realm do.
@@grimnir8872 Depending what you call "Battle" the 100 Year war where mostly fought on Skirmishes as far as i know, and the 100 Year war was long, big battles where not as common mostly sieges and Raids and Small scale Battles, most things i know are from german Sorces like the German Knight Order and German States who used there Heavy Cav To Greate extend, and many many years Knights where in the Heavy cav role to Flank or crush enemy lines, that is what they used to do, dismounting ment giving up speed, i would like some sorces so i can read my self in to it, the 100 Year war is not my nr 1 expert area it is more Germany and the German Knight Order who almost only Fought on Horse back there entire Order Tactics was Based on horse Tactics like most knightly orders, i know that the 100 Year war the heavy cav became less and less usefull and the end Because Pike Formation where a Thing at the end, and i know that the French lost a lot of knights against long bow Formation but that is what i know
As far as I can see/know. This is another resurrected corpse of an IP that we all love/care about.
But if it's not supported or purchased they'll double down on the AoS tripe.
Who expects GW to completely bomb the Old World?
Yes and no. Yes the heraldy makes no sense as it was always portrayed as a big mixture of everything and it made sense. No as Engllish do used some foot knights in battles. Remember Bretonne is a mixture of 100 years war France and England. Thats why You get now a twohanded footknights. Also as someone from Poland I can assure You also the Winged Hussars fought on foot when needed. Not with lance but rather with musket and whatever weapon was suitable at the moment, On top of this in Warhammer siege we had foot knights even in the past editions of WHFB. The rant is unnescesary.
On one hand it does feel nice to see the Old World back again, but at the same time there’s still a sour taste in people’s mouths from the End Times happening and until that event gets removed from existence I don’t see many people coming back even with this.
They're not gunna drop AoS just because they brought back Fantasy
GW: "Actually the Age of Myth refers to another dimension where Sigmar came from and its fall was just chaos propaganda."
r/Sigmarxism: "How could they do this to our franchise?!"
In short: Waaaaah I read a wikipedia entry and I am mad.
@@SirBrasstionand we care about a bunch of tourists because?
@@SirBrasstion 1) Sigmarxism is too tiny to care about.
2) AoS is way too profitable for GW to risk pissing off. If anything, GW has doubled down and consistently called the Old World the "World of Legends" or some crap.
Isn't this set like 400 years before the previous old world? A lot can change in that time. Maybe it was cool to wear the Barons colours for young knights, maybe poorer knights fought on foot, or knights that decided to lead the infantry?
As far as I'm aware Knights of the Realm will still be core, you can still do an entire army of mounted Knights... so they aren't an off-brand Empire.
One of the main themes of bretonnia is that they don't change much.
@@matthiuskoenig3378but now they got democracy and progressive views
The VC player in me is happy. Then I remember its GW. Oh well, some of the hobby stores will have this stuff in a year or two.
GW still wants too much for every box. 3D printers are so cheap now, they can cost the same as a GW box and sometimes do. It makes no sense at all to me to even contemplate buying their product.
i have been 3d printing since july. GW just cant compete against it.
there are leman russ proxies in every tank imaginable for €15 per file. print 5 tanks, the money you saved on the tanks already paid for the printer
They should make digital files that are not the same as the boxed ones and sell both. Seems like a good compromise and savvy business sense. But nah, full steam ahead.
It literally costs GW more to print the boxes than to manufacture the model kits themselves, to give an idea of how insane their markup is.
@@grinningtiki220 Mantic Games started doing that, especially with their newer stuff. I haven't bought any, but I don't understand why GW isn't. Aside from the obvious.
That drab colour scheme makes the Bretonnians look more like an Imperial Knightly Order than the chevaliers of The Lady. Even if you're putting the knights in a common colour scheme (to represent allegiance to a common liege lord perhaps), at least individualise them with their heraldry. And the paint scheme on those Pegasus Knights does not do those charming old models justice. Pegusi in dove grey.
That's what comes of hiring fans of the product, rather than people with a hinterland beyond it.
As a former TK/Bret (only) player, GW waited way too long to ever lure me back in. They were so insistent for so long that AoS was the one and only fantasy setting that I eventually came around to take them at their word. I got over it, and have no desire to go back. The massive price hike makes it even more certain that I'll never collect again.
Maybe you can play with your old minis? Just use a tray to accommodate for the larger bases
You believed them? I knew it was only a matter of time vwcore they announced the Old World.
8:08 WAIT? What if the bretonian knights are in a siege? Surly they don't try to fight on horseback on the ramparts.
They don't. It's just Arch not knowing what the fuck he is talking about.
Slight counterpoint, this is clearly not a siege. Your argument would be better if there was some terrain included, but this appears to be an open field battle. And yes, they use foot knight in sieges. I've read that. But they are extremely rare, and they'd rather keep them mounted in 99% of situations. Which he touches on, actually.
@@numbere329 We have accounts in literally every war that Knights would regularly fight on foot to preserve their mounts. You and Arch are historically illiterate.
@grimnir8872 That's a complete strawman, and you know it. No one has made the argument that real knights didn't fight on foot at any point in history. The entire argument is that in Warhammer fantasy (key word being "fantasy" meaning "not real"), these specific knights don't usually fight on foot. Please debate what I actually said, and don't just resort to insults. It's unbecoming.
@@numbere329 Oh fuck off, I am not here to coddle a bunch of simps for a wikipedia reading idiot. Arch himself tries to apply the "Muh history" analogy in his own video. and besides, Bretonnians have never been "100% mounted knights all the time" because their entire range had foot knights apart from ONE EDITION.
They acknowledge the heraldry issue in the very recent interview. TL;DR They know about the background of each KOTR, but this is just easier to paint. Doesn't meant it's a good thing, but the rest of the interview talks about how they plan to do things in the Age of Legends, especially issues like gunpowder tech, exiled Bretonnians, etc.
ah bretonia, it's an army of horses. you have a bunch of hoity toity nobles in the heaviest armory just so they get that sweet sweet 2+ save and then have the horses beat the ever loving crap out of everything from chaos knights to dragons. while the knights with all their lances do precisely jack.
Sadly I wanted a 9th edition that retconned out the awful end times. Can't see myself buying models and getting invested in the setting as long as End Times still happens.
Why? Things end. You will die. The world will end. Are you not gonna live just because you know you will die? Are you not going to get invested in a relationship because you know they will die. Things are finite. Get used to it.
@@RealmDesigner ... because I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars and dozens of hours assembling an army to a dead setting that will most likely not have that big of a playerbase to play with, because it's a dead setting
We made them bring it back. With enough volition and luck, we can make them sideline the Endtimes. Nobody sane likes those anyhow.
Its simple math. If it sells it gets retconed. You dont buy it then its a dead game soon enough. People bitched when they killed it. People bitch when they bring it back. People like to bitch. It was never going to be the same as thoes people aren't with the company anymore. Other people have different ideas.
You know that nobody forces you to adopt any other setting than the one you love, right? It's like D&D players complaining about new editions while they still have material for years and years to play with. It's the same with WH. With the previous editions (and i include novels and other canon sources) you still have years and years to play. Just don't buy new editions. You and your own head are creating issues. GW is just doing what every big IP / company should do : making money.
Instead of foot knights why didnt they just buff the men at arms give them better models and then have units of levy spearmen and levy militia?.
Also one of those foot knights is defintly a women sculpt
I never understood the "multi colored Bretonnians are hard to paint". Is it that hard to put new colors on your palette?
i painted an army of bretonnians using fireforge models. after 30 knights, some repetition in the paint schemes will start to happen.
and a lot of heraldry that contains coat of arms are a bitch to paint free-handing.
there is some merit to that argument, especially for people starting on the hobby
If your buying their paint any slight color change gets pricey I'd assume.
Almost broke my wrist trying one time
GW said the Grail Knights will still be painted by as each having their own colours and heraldry. Also, you don't have to copy the 'Eavy Metal team guys.
I just don't understands GW hate-on for Skaven. Their one truly original faction lol.
Skaven supposed to get a range refresh with the new edition of AOS.
From what I can see, this Old World game is all the models that didn't make it over to AoS. Skaven, though diminished, is still available in AoS.
From what I've seen they're actually ripped pretty directly from Fritz Leiber's _The Swords of Lankhmar._
Dead games should stay dead.
Not being reanimated into a zombie for extra cash.
Knights quite frequently fought dismounted in real life- either because of the terrain (sieges, especially, and maybe broken terrain like forests or mountains). Plus the English, who made strategies around their longbows, liked to fight dismounted so they could stick closer to them and protect them. I don’t see any problem whatsoever with Foot Knights, even though they weren’t in the game previously (and honestly, I always thought they should be as a concession to realism).
The color scheme thing also is perfectly believable- knights did sometimes use the heraldry of a higher ranking lord or house. Plus, apparently they said it was fine to paint them in individual color schemes, so I’m fine with that.
What bugs me is the Skeleton Dragon... the Tomb Kings aren’t Necromancers! They don’t awaken the spirit of just any being and bring it back to its body, only the souls of fallen Nehekharan warriors (which they bind to their bodies or stone statues like Ushabti). Plus, skeleton dragons just seem really off-brand from an aesthetics point- they’re supposed to be undead Egyptians, dragons just seem like an insert from the Vampire Counts because GW wanted something new couldn’t be bothered to stay true to the lore. Should have given us an updated, newly kitted out, plastic Tomb Scorpion instead.
I don’t mind the changes to the Bretonnians, but I’m still quite skeptical about this whole project. I’ll reserve final judgement for now though.
No knights dit not fight on foot commonly, not at all, ok depending on the time and age, when we talk 100 years war then no, when we talk Viking age then yes. Knights where always heavy cav, that was there job. Wasting knights to protect archers something man at arms could to or levys is just a waste. I talk big massive battles. Back in the day there where 3 main battle types. Skirmishes, the most common small scale battles, yea there is was more common to dismount when the terrain said no or other factors limited the use of horses, and why dismount? Even spearwalls had no chance against heavy cav, that is why they later on used pikes. Then there are field battles the less common battles. Mostly those happens because the enemy held an important position, and there knights dit only dismount if there horse died OR the terrain said no again. And sieges, yeah horses are super useless a group of pikes would destroy knights on horses that is why polearms or two handed swords where used something big atleast, not sword and shield, swords where backup weapon or duel weapon, most knights used hammer and pole weapons. Also proven by reports of the Ordo Teutonicus (German knights) and knights Templar, order reports stated there extensive use of horses and horse tactics, the Teutonic knights even had there own men at arms to fill the und role for them
@@TEXASAXEthe English, in particular, were famous for their foot knights. Their armor was, in fact, specifically different for that role.
Its not irl though is it its WHF, I don't care what the English did I care what bretonnians do.
While I do like uniform coloring schemes, I can see both your and Arch's points as being true. The vassal patron(or vassal senior?) system can be complicated. And it's basically, do as you like. Maybe Brionne requires such way of color coding? We haven't seen Couronne or Carcassonne or what have you yet. And I have nothing against it.
Now, TKs? Yeah, this frightens me. Even the Bone Giant was a bridge too far imo. Bone Dragon? What is this? TKs are NOT Necromancers! And Settra isn't that utilitarian anyhow. He's so arrogant, egoist and proud that he simply wants to conquer or defeat you. You dead? You stay dead. Mortuary Cult shenanigans are only for the privileged ones. Why would enemies have any privileges? And if they give Necromancy spells to TKs ... INSTANT OUCH! Why? What's the full name of TOW TKs? Tomb Kings of Khemri, yes? And Khemri(and its defacto ruler, Settra) remember Nagash very well. Remember, instead of the glorious Golden Afterlife(or some such) that they were working towards(Khatep in specific), Nagash instead woke them up as bunch of skelly boys. Not to mention Nagash's antics way back when.
Overall, I am ... I need to get more info before I pass my judgment, but it's not looking good.
@@RambleOn07 do you have a sorce on that? not that i dont Trust you, i like to learn something new, Because MOST knights where Horse only entire Knight orders fought only on horse back
If it doesn't recognise bloodbath at orcs drift, terror of the leichmaster and the magnificent sven I'm not interested
I'm not a Fantasy lore nerd, and don't know what any of those are, but I do know GE has said they're setting this relaunch just before Magnus's reign as emperor(with plans for him to get a model?), so if that means anything to you, judge that.
Good times...
Want the Old World feel simple Kings of War and OPR Regiments.
Mantic are struggling, big time.
Knights of the Realm are NOT major nobility. They are minor nobles who form the lowest rung of Bretonnia's landed nobility. Their domains are very small (rarely having more than just a single village to lord over) and they serve the titled lords of Bretonnia's high nobility (barons, counts, dukes etc.) who rule much larger domains. So while they technically are lords (and do have their own heraldry, as rightfully pointed out), they aren't really lords of much. They are minor nobility, not major ones.
Knights Errant are generally younger members of Bretonnia's nobility who have yet to proof themselves. Unlike the Knights of the Realm, they are not a seperate class or rank of nobility. Both members of major and minor noble families will be expected to serve as Knight Errant at some point in their life. The son of a duke and the son of a simple landed knight will both be Knights Errant despite being from families with very different feudal ranks.
Both Knights Errant and Knights of the Realm are generally in service to a higher-ranking knight or a titled lord. Even lords themselves often serve greater lords all the way up the feudal pyramid until you get to the Royarch, who himself serves the Lady of the Lake.
This always bothered me with the multicolored heraldry on both sides of the spectrum. Youre telling me this army with lets say 32 knights of the realm all 32 of them come from different small villages and have no connection or training with each other can ride in perfect formation with each other. You're also telling me this Grail Knight or Duke has no family or knights under his command who bear his colors in a feudel society where family and climbing the social ladder by serving a great lord or being born in a noble house is so important. And it also doesn't really let you do the whole family house thing which is one of the big appeals of these medieval fantasy setting like with ASOIF.
Knights aren't necessarily MAJOR lords. Most of them only rule small villages.
And? The same is true if real knights yet they each had their own heraldry
@@matthiuskoenig3378 He implied they were all major landholders. I'm not arguing about the heraldry, though if I remember correcting it wasn't unusual for knights from the same area to have some things in common with one another. Certainly, they didn't all wear the same things.
Huge Bretonnian fanboy here. I don't think the Knights being uniform is all *that* big of a deal because you could just handwave it away as them being a Bretonnian order of crusaders. But on the other hand, the varied knights of many beautiful colors are the centerpiece of Bretonnian identity, so I get your gripe there. While I am more irritated by the foot knights, that's still not really as big of an issue for me, seeing as there are more situations besides being unhorsed when a knight might have to accept fighting afoot. On top of that, there was the Vow of Humility in the old rulebook that let a knight fight on foot, but there werent really any models to represent that. That said, it would certainly have been better if GW had made some models of the Foot Squires that appeared in the Total War game. Much more appropriate tbh. My main real complaint is that the big Enchantress model is astride her horse like some wanton Wood Elf harlot rather than sidesaddle like a trueborn noble lady.
Regarding the book you mentioned bringing in 21st century politics, I know its being written by Graham McNeil, so I was already not really planning on checking it out. Having heard what you said about it, I am definitely not reading that shit.
Foot Squires is an awful unit from the lore perspective. Bretonnian knights don't have squires, and often mock knights of the Empire for such an inglorious career start
Wait what's up with Graham McNeil? Ive completely stop following 40k since the beginning of covid so i dont know alot about the novel situation
@@marcusflutist1230 Yes they do. Please for the love of god actually take a look at their old army books.
You will notice they have squires as a unit.
@@joshwenn989 uh-huh, and in even older books Bretonnia had corrupt, pre-Revolution France-like nobility. And cannons in Man o'War
The heavy infantry should just be Mercenaries or bastard sons of nobility. I think that would solve the lore issue here, like they need to earn their horse in battle to become recognized and accepted in Bertonnian noble society. Not sure if that would fly because I wasn’t that big into them and I started WHFB right before they blew it up.
There isn't a lore issue though, Arch is just misinformed like always.
@@grimnir8872 care to explain then?
They have always had foot knights, they served a roll of carrying heavy weapons. They were hardly ever used and just seemed a knockoff of empire greatswords.
@@wmdragonj Well first, Arch is a notorious wiki reader and actually engages with books very rarely. Secondly, Foot Knights have existed in Bretonnia far longer than they didn't exist, which is to say exactly one battle tome, 6th edition. The same edition that just so happened to make the lance formation not a wedge but a weird square, but I don't see Arch crying about that.
Interesting.
I want to start by saying, yes, you are right about the Knights of the Realm are supposed to have their own heraldry as they are all lords of some renown. On the other hand, I did not follow that philosophy for my own Bretonnian army. I made my Knights Errant and Knights of the Realm of the same heraldry for 2 reasons. 1) The color design and colors of the heraldry I chose for my core knight units was very cool. I made it a simplified version my General's Heraldry. The lore I chose was that these were especially beholden to my General due to the core (not all of my Knights of the Realm btw) were recruited from peasantry and earned their positions through being squires, then mounted squires, then Knights Errant, and finally Knights of the Realm. I did have Knights of the Realm with normal Bretonnian lore heraldry join the army as needed for that scenario. All my Questing and Grail Knights had their unique Heraldry, as per normal lore. 2) I was new to the hobby, and wanted a color scheme and design I could somewhat assembly-line. Although I appreciate the skill and art of panting figures, I really never enjoyed it. I found it boring and a chore. So, if I could find a quick fix by bending the lore a little for my particular units, I was happy to do so.
As for foot Knights. I wanted a unit of foot knights for two reasons. First, I wanted them on foot to handle scenarios when they were on castle walls or fighting inside buildings. These situations do arise at times depending on scenario. A friend of mine had a wonderful castle model. And it was a great and fun time having my Bretonnian army defend that castle. Second, I had in mind a Hero character that was a great leader of the people, and would, at times, directly lead a unit of men-at-arms from their front rank, on foot. Just a unique character concept.
The article they posted today actually said in no uncertain terms that the order of operations was that GW wanted to remove Skaven from the game, as well as VC, and then chose a time period they felt facilitated that goal. Their priority, though, was to remove Skaven from the game.
In addition, it's also worth noting when they posted an article talking about how they're "changing who can be a knight" and then have women everywhere in the knight units, and today's article with "actually there were always tons of Steam Tanks, all the people from the setting you like were just really stupid and dumb...and by the way, have you seen the far bigger and better Primaris(tm) Steam Tank?!?"
Edit: Got to the end of the video and he acknowledged the second of my three points, but the other two are still quite significant.
If you just said they were going to “current year” the setting, it would’ve gotten the point across quicker.
And just like that, any hope I may have had is snuffed before it ever even got to make its case.
Why would they want to remove Skav and VC? Those would sell as they're fairly popular
It's insane that these companies are so obsessed with hiring people that want to drive them out of business. The VC, especially under Vlad, are my favorite faction.
@@diggytablet I assume the Skaven might be over them not wanting an army that doubles in both OW and AoS, and they want you buying a whole new army?
but then Vampire Counts don't make sense since the AoS equivalent are radically different and thus require a diffrent model line with little overlap...
I always painted my bret peasants to match the livery of specific knights in my army
Old world's going to be a sacrifice to the left cultists. "What could go wrong?" thinks GW, "It's an IP we're not making money on. Give them an inch, I'm sure they won't take a mile". 😂
I don’t like some of the looks of the new models. I think AoS could very well bleed into the Old World models. Biggest reason being Cities of Sigmar and how the OG Empire/Dark Elf/ and whatever is left of the High and Wood Elf lines.
The uniform heraldry was used historicaly for an order, so it is plausible to have those regiments too. But on a big campain of a King or so, they would have looked more diverse.
So both is historicaly rooted and should be an option for the player to decide....
regarding the foot knights, England was known for their knights on foot fighting style. So historicaly plausible.... no problem here
They probably went with Bretonnia and Tomb Kings because they (especially Bretonnia) got massively shafted in Age of Skub... Sigmar
Now... consider this - starter army for a "new" old system, and you get Bretonnia, which, considering each knight's unique heraldry would be excessively difficult to paint.
And an excessively difficult to paint starter army is something... not desirable.
That is probably the actual reason why the lore bit states that the Knights may present themselves in colour of the lord the are gathered under - which, honestly is not the worst idea from a newbie painter perspective and it appears lore friendly enough (I even have a faint memory of something similar being a thing in the old Warhammer) - though perhaps introduction of simple orders of chivalry would be better.
Or the bug with Bretonnian Knights being unicolor somehow magicked its way from Warhammer Total War 3 into the real world.
I hope when the Bretonnia book drops, it's like that scene at the end of GoT where the small council is deciding what to do now that the Queen is dead; someone proposes a representative democracy, and everyone collectively laughs before getting back to the actual business of running the realm.
Blessings be to you archwarhammer.
Horus Heresy 2.0 was an excellent release and great game, and im hoping that old world is as well done. My only bugbear is them re using ancient models and likely charging a bloody fortune for them
HH 2.0 is a lazy zero-effort disaster that is much worse than the previous edition it replaced.
@@BittermanAndy you obviously haven't played it and are just parroting others.
with the Brets what if the uniformity could be like a Crusades thing? got a feeling with the tomb kings being the opposing faction got a feeling the Brets are on a Crusade kinda taking up the cross sort of thing
It's the opposite, The Crusade lists would be dozens of individual knights fighting for their own glory. The uniformed armies are an Army united under a particular Lord for a singular purpose, considering the time period, it could be a thing to do with the False Grail.
@@grimnir8872 possibly aye am not too clued in to the deep lore on fantasy when I started getting serious in to fantasy was during a time shortly before the "event" that spawned age of sigmar lets just say at the time I was only ever able to get hold of a damsel on foot and a paladin with a banner before they all gotten yeeted Arch has made a few good points however I been hearing crusades and crusaders floating about with these 2 boxes, that's the only thing I can think of for the uniformity however when I get that Bret box am just gonna paint them how I want lol
the article released today stated you can still paint them the old way and that there will be rules for crusading knights as well, this video was most likely recorded before the article was out
@@DraronFury yee that's what am thinking too not gonna lie am actually buzzing about the crusading knights rules to see what they are like lol
Yeah, I got into the hobby after they hit the ol’ exterminatus to Fantasy so the idea that they dredge up the still decomposing corpse from the depths is absolutely bananas. How terrible is Sigmar doing if this is even a consideration?
Sigmar's doing pretty good actually. I'm assuming the sole reason they're bringing the old world back is because of total war. I've heard a lot of people say total war got them interested in the fantasy/gw setting to only have sigmar available. I never got the chance to play fantasy as I started my warriors of chaos army half way through the end times books. So I let most of that army quietly rest unassembled in a box. Glad I did as I don't have to swap as many bases. I'm genuinely excited at a chance to try fantasy as I've gotten more and more into the lore and books of the setting since I started to collect.
@@frederickflores8152
100%. Anyone who thinks they've dug TOW up because AoS is performing poorly is consuming copium. They've dug it up because there has been a Renaissance for WHF lore since the late 2010s in the form of video games. They are leaving money on the table by letting this IP rot when this Renaissance is still ongoing.
While at least Fantasy is returning to some extent I still don't like that they veered towards a prequel when they could have just brought back regular fantasy by just retconning that shit stain called the end times, maybe it's just me but I don't feel like the old world will have much longevity, like why should I care about this prequel when I already know that the end times are still canon and it all means nothing? I can understand how someone who likes the tabletop would be excited but as someone who's only interested in the books, games and lore I see the old world as more of a missed opportunity then anything.
Also the Skaven are the undisputed best race, not making them a launch race is a big mistake Yes-yes.
I agree with Arch gor the most part, except, in the old lore, Katarin was not the singular Lore of Ice caster. Kislev had 2 lores of magic: the Lore of Ice and the lore of Hags. All Kislevite women who drew the winds of magic to them would would have been cloistered and taught to be frost maidens and later ice witches. All male would-be mages were to be killed.
I have to disagree on the foot knights take, Bretonnia as a faction was incredibly stagnant with what you could build an army with simply because knights were the only real hitter and were used the same no matter the army composition and player, having a single solid infantry option is all too welcome and honestly feels like something that shouldve been kept from early additions moving forward. Noone wants Bret to start adopting firearms, but it always felt like the faction was left behind due to not having new units added, even if they could make it make sense within the faction it never happened. Foot knights just need a "vow of empathy" label slapped on them and now they are knights who think that empathy just means walking on the same ground peasants do is showing compassion for them, or they are defenders of the temples and to do this they have forgone their horse, because its was always really silly that Brett apparently brings its horses inside houses when fighting.
I wholey agree with the color scheme though, thats a big part of the faction aesthetic and is a pretty major oversight.
I was recomended a 7 year old vid by arch about betonians, are we in a ring story telling arch?
Bretonians vs tomb kings is a bit odd but I remember one box set was bretonians and lizardmen, so stone age lizards and the more backwards humans who live across oceans who are not known for adventuring too far. Tomb kinds and brets are regions away, like france is to egypt but its a bit more feasable.
I assumed the grail quests were more local, but does lady of the lake send knights on quests and crusades all around the world? "the grail is in the tomb of amkapatakan"
I'm curious if they'll start releasing rebooted lore novels, and if so what will they do with it?
Foot knights are a must for siege warfare game, at least until somebody figures out how to train war horses to fight on walls and climb ladders. ⚔
That's why they have trebuchets to get those nasty walls out of the way of the cavalry.
The foot knights just need coconuts
Arch once again outing himself as a true lorelet with that foot knight rant
Just give me a book about Imrik's trip to Cathay where he totally didn't meet his Dragon waifu...
Agree on the uniform heraldry.
Somewhat disagree on foot knights, I think there should be the option to take "dismounted knights" primarily for sieges, maybe somehow limit the number you can take or something.
Definetely do not like the fact that some of the new knights are women.
I'm guessing the price for these 6th edition models (im convinced that except the foot knights and the characters they are all the same as back then) will be enough to pay a years worth of bills.
Some people have mentioned 3d printing but there are other companies that have hard plastic fantasy, I mean you only need GW minis if you intend to play at an official GW location.
I dug up my old fantasy models; prolly going to have to rebase them and find a place to play in time. Kinda also want to pick up some Wood Elves and make a small force with them to go with this old treeman I found in my boxes of extra mini's once those come out. Biggest issue my elves have is going to be that I have no idea what I'm doing and since I have a batallion sized set of spearmen/archers I'm going to be annoyed by the lack of a 5 man frontline for those units. Wonder if I can find like... 4 spearmen, 4 archers somewhere. >_>;
End Times still happen. I'm not interested until that is thrown out and an apology is given.
The old world is based on Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melinbone. In those novels, a similar ending took place, and a new world emerged from Chaos engulfing the world.
I’m just happy to be able to buy Bretonians again without paying the absurd to eBay prices
On dismounted knights I have three words:
Crecy, Poitiers, Agincourt.
As Bretonnia is HYW era France it will include the Angevin empire.
I have to push back here a little bit but you can't seriously tell me that AoS isn't a massive financial success. You can even make the strong case that currently AoS offers the best GW rule system next to Lord of the Rings.
isn't the night lords and ultramarines just a problem with them not knowing roman numerals?
Me and my friend play skaven and vampire counts….why are they not in this!!!!!! 🤦🏻♂️
I'm going to financially support it because I want to see more of it. If you like WHFB, might be well served to do the same. If not, then don't. The prices are going to be fair if you care about quality. They will be too much if you think a $60 box of knights is a hardship (and I sympathize).
GW lost money on Fantasy and is once bitten, twice shy. I just hope that they give us more of the goodness we've seen lately. I'm pretty optimistic, boys lads boys.
aaaaaaaaand the first Old World novel has a whole bunch of female Bretonnian knights, abandon the ship
On your Bretonia rant, its called changes and tweaks to the lore, and in my opinion a welcome one, makes them more interesting, easier to batch paint and opens up more possibilities
Peasants having ideas on feudalism:
"We don't have a lord."
"What?
"I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week."
Which, to be fair, would be more in line with old school, original GW Fantasy.
There being other ice witches than the Tzarina was already a thing in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. The lack of them on the tabletop was just due to Kislev not existing much on the tabletop in the first place, just as a very bare-bones supplement for allied contingents, not a proper army book in its own right. You're right though that having entire units where the rank and file has magical weapons is just jumping the shark. The only unit that ever had that in the old Warhammer Fantasy Battles were chaos knights, who were as elite as it gets without being characters in an already highly elite army, and who have a perfect in-lore reason to have better access to magical weapons than anyone else, as the favoured of the Chaos gods.
That Bretonnian cavalry squad must all be brothers from the same parents, that's why they share their heraldry.
The sounds of Chaos Dwarf boots in the distance.
I never got the chance to play Fantasy since I got in after the End Times with AoS. I am excited for The Old World (I have an Empire Army and a High Elf army mostly ready to go). Yes hearing this stuff does concern me but what concerns me more is that they are releasing two boxes one for the Bretonnians and one for the Tomb Kings each worth almost as much if not more than the starter boxes for their other games which have two factions so you can split the box with a friend and not pay as much. The saving grace is each box contains more than 1k points of each army so that’s nice.
I do want this game to do well and I think it will but I do have my concerns
I for one am excited for foot knights.
Bashing greatswords/chaos warriors with halberds whilst hon hon honing will be amazing.
-hero- on -giant mount- was always a thing. Dreadlord on Black Dragon, Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon, etc.
Not sure why you'd put a support caster on the bone dragon, but they did suggest replacing the liche priest with a tomb king on your bone dragon so that's fine.
In defence of lack of individuality of Knights, gw did say at that point in the setting, it wasn't there for the Knights. Foot Knights makes sense for the mountainous baronys and dutchys like in the pale sisters and Montfort its stated horses aren't optimal and some of those Knights are poor in some source books. I am excited but at the same time wasn't in the hobby when fantasy was around, so not used to the expectations of the past.
I like the undead kitty that cames with the bone dragon :D
I could see Grail Knights being uniform. Once they take up the Grail Vow, they give up their heraldry until they complete their vow.
I used to paint my Grail Knights all in white except the devices. Really made them stand out on the table.
You have mastered penitent, you can master breath of fresh air.
Since GW don't care about the lore anyway, I'm going to pretend this is set in the post-end times where the ordertide won and now the Old World worry about the Empire's expansionist zeitgeist. Bretonnia, Tilea and Dwarven Holds were part of Sigmar's realm since ancient times.
i mean bretonia has always been the we do cavalry faction. grail knights, knights of the realm Pegasus knights, questing knights, yeomen horsemen, knights errant are all still there so as far as i can see they are keeping that identity. With the new flee from combat system allowing units to break but not flee having a heavily armoured decent leadership option isnt actually a bad thing. lore friendly or not the foot knights are sign of gw actually thinking about the game mechanics which i would put priority on over trying to brute force an all in just cav faction for sake of but "Bretonia only does horse things"
I mean it’s an easy mistake to make with the Ultramarines. Anyone can confuse the violent street gang in your area with the local Boy Scout troop
I can’t believe Arch would use his skaven slaves so callously. What did they do to deserve such a treatment aside from being made/born slaves and not being mean enough and big enough to become storm vermin.
Really disappointed with the Tomb Kings box. It's going to be $290 US for 93 models that are mostly old enough to drink( in the case of the horses, old enough to see their kids off to Middle School). That bone dragon centerpiece monstrosity is something I'm never going to want to have to transport ever. It was also completely unnecessary as anybody interested in Tomb Kings wanted a Necrosphinx or Heirotitan. I'm glad we're getting the Necrosphinx. But if they're going to design a new model, we've been waiting 10 years for a Heirotitan. What the hell, james.
re: 16:00 - Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!
What I want from Old World is Total War: Warhammer armies that I can paint. Let GW contort themselves all they like, as long as we reach that end state, I don't care how they justify it within the lore.
You are right about the knight's painting...
They might also be testing the water to see if support would have equalled more profitability for warhammer fantasy.
It reminds me of how I went to see a play here in Arizona at the university. It was supposed to be "Excalibur" and King Arthur was apparently a great king because he really wanted socialism (no, I'm not kidding). Somehow it still managed to follow the plot of the movie more or less.
At any rate, if they are going to go full progressive, I wonder if they will introduce the idea of transgender Orks, and how their society will just just have all of these Orks who randomly decide that they resemble men, but some of them suddenly feel these feminine urges by finding other genders among other species. Or how they will realize they are Aesexual and go into berserker rampages over having that mislabeled by other factions. Just imagine their sourcebook with a giant cross dressing warboss, and two orcs hugging each other, while a poetry slam is going on in the background under a banner that reads "Don't label us". The preamble can all be about breaking stereotypes.
Oh sure, I won't buy it, but I will laugh at it.
Never did much Warhammer Fantasy, but my army was The High Elves, I think it might have been 2nd edition back when the minis were still metal, they transitioned them to plastic a bit after I got into it, which was a big part of why I quit as I found that annoying.
War hammer gate keeping was never successful- the only wall you had was the PRICE. I’ve been thinking for a while now, since I fled my hobbies and took up war hammer, the infection vector will be the books…. I think I am right.