At the Source: Wicked, The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West by Gregory Maguire
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- So much happened before Dorothy dropped in that didn't make it into the stage version.
Thank you to our top-level Patreon Supporters!
Black Butler: Parody of the Phantomhives
/ @lj7117
/ xlj7117x
The Saga-Song of Beaglesaurus
bit.ly/2PzZR6u
Visit Musical Hell at:
MusicalHell.com
Support me on Patreon and Ko-Fi!
www.patreon.com...
ko-fi.com/musi...
Follow me!
@MusicalHell
musicalhell.tumblr.com
divasmusicalhell
For more reviews, commentary, and general awesomeness of every kind, visit:
thebrokeninfitie.com
rtgomer.com
We should also keep in mind that "Life and Times" is largely told from Elphaba's fractured and nihilistic perspective, while the "Wicked" musical is overtly told as a kind of bubbly eulogy by Glinda.
That...is a very valid point.
@@MusicalHell Can you do a few next At The Sources on(whichever order is fine with me):
1. The Secret Garden
2. Doctor Zhivago
(both are by composer Lucy Simon)
3. The Baker's Wife(which is based on a french film of the same name)
4. Spring Awakening(which is based on a play of the same name by Frank Wedekind)
5. Zorba(which is based on both the novel and the Anthony Quinn film of the same name)
6. Giant(based on the novel of the same name. Plus, the musical is by Michael John LaChiusa, the same composer of Hello Again)
7. Mary Poppins(perhaps a play by play between the books, the Disney film, AND the Disney Stage Musical developed by Cameron Mackintosh)
8. Dear Evan Hansen The Junior Novel
9. 13
(which are bit of reversals, with a junior novel being developed after the original source material premiered on stage)
10. Candide
(maybe do it as a show that constantly changes with each iteration(like with Rags, Chess, etc.)
11. The King and I(based on the highly fictitious(and borderline colonialist) memoirs by Anna Leonowens)
12. Flower Drum Song(from the novel to the first iteration from 1958, to the new version by Chinese American playwright David Henry Hwang(who also co wrote the libretto for Adia, wrote the full libretto for Tarzan the Musical, AND wrote the script and lyrics of the "Play with a Musical" Soft Power with composer(and additional lyricist) Jeanine Tesori(Fun Home, Caroline or Change, Violet, Shrek the Musical, etc.)
13. Pacific Overtures(based on Commodore Perry's exhibition to Japan, presented as "Japanese playwright's version of an American musical" through kabuki theatre)(which also describes the "musical" portion of Soft Power, being a Chinese musical from 50 years in the future that retells today's American history with the 2016 election through a cracked lens)
14. Miss Saigon(based on the Opera Madame Butterfly)
(maybe all five of these as perhaps a discussion of portrayals of Asian history and culture in American/British theatre, with an emphasis on how the quality of the writing and the narratives either disband or reinforce societally conceived notions of Asian racial stereotypes(Miss Saigon(from it's conception to the changes made to 25th Anniversary Revival) being one of the biggest contender for tense(albeit "controversial") discussions on the matter, in my opinion)
Sorry if this sounds to overbearing(regardless of how much time you actually have being at home with the pandemic and all), but I really like these analysis you make, and I thought I shoot SOME ideas. :)
Bonus ideas(though these are plays not musicals):
1. The Curious Incident of The Dog and The Nighttime(which I saw in London, and which stars a character I truly resinated with as someone who is high functionally autistic)
2. Frankenstein, adaptation by Nick Dear(which(by telling the story from the Creature's perspective, rather than Victor's) fundamentally inverts the themes of Mary Shelly's book, about the dangers of toying with nature, into those of the consequences of avoiding nurturing and loving you're creation(children) from birth(and yes, this is the version that stars Benedict Cumberbatch and Jonny Lee Miller, who alternated the roles of Victor and The Creature on different nights)
“Bubbly eulogy” I see what you did there
@@michaelwilliamybarra2409 Diva already covered Miss Saigon. I would have suggested Chicago and the real life trial behind it.
I legit had an epiphany the other day when I realized that, when Glinda shows the audience the circumstances around Elphaba's conception, it's information only SHE was privy to, as we learn towards the end of the show. So your comment is definitely on point!
Also, I read the books surrounding the musical's creation and one of my favorite parts is Maguire noting he had no problem with the novel's story being so heavily altered as long as the core themes of morality remain in there. The REASON he's so cool with the changes? It more or less boils down to "The novel is literally just dark Wizard of Oz fanfiction, I have no room to judge you guys for changing stuff!" (no those aren't his actual words, he was more philosophical about it, but this is basically a summarized version)
I find it funny for two reasons: One, he's delightfully self-aware, and two, so many people whine about how the musical is different and then it turns out the author's cool with the differences.
I liked both the book and the musical for the entities they were. The only issue I had with the musical was chiefly to do with the musical's book writers wanting to be cute about merging two of the characters from the story in with the scarecrow and the tin woodsman, but even that issue has more to do with the lack of synchronicity of the timing of this story and the story that Dorothy is living in parallel in Act II. But it's minor enough that I can almost ignore it. Almost. :)
It's one of the rare cases where the author is fine with the changes to their story
The half page describing Elphaba's pubes scarred me as a twelve year old
The books got weirder and squickier than that.
Yeah, it doesn't seem like a book you wanna read if you're going through puberty.
God, I'm glad that I'm not the only one who was disturbed by this aaha.
Imagine if Sondheim did actually make a version of Wicked. I'd watch that.
Oh god
I would as well.
Yes. Where are my tickets.
The Witch from Into the Woods and Elphaba are basically the same character anyways
@@Quackervoltz I don’t know about that. Elphaba seems different from that witch.
Something my mom said after we saw the musical together after having read the book “The musical is as if Glinda was telling the sequence of events, the book is as if Elphaba described them.”
No kidding it would make sense that glinda would cut out all the gory details of her former friends life story
I read Wicked when I was twelve, before I saw the musical and I was totally mesmerized by it. Then I saw the musical.... talk about a 360.
You mean 180 right?
Same I read the book because my mom wouldn't take me to see it when it was performed near our home town and then when she came back she said, "Yeah, I should have taken you." So essentially I read the book out of spite when I was far too young to read it and finally saw the musical (on Broadway which was awesome!) and it was soooo different.
Baal, God of Rain Yes
I read the book when I was 11 and mostly I was confused
I couldn’t even finish the book. I won a copy while I was waiting in line for tickets to the musical.
I remember trying to talk about the book with my friends who had only seen the musical and them like ostracizing me for a week because "I didn't get it", meanwhile I'm over here suffering through Turtledove. Turtleheart?
Personally I agree with Lindsay Ellis’s take on the franchise: i like the book more in concept, i like the musical more in practice
Same
Dom Elaineous Me too.
Dom Elaineous yep
Loved the musical, couldn’t stand the book. I’m an avid reader & this book was so bad I could only get halfway thru it.
@@deanacollins3508 Omg, I feel you. I only read the whole thing because I used to be one of those people who felt obligated to finish a book once I started it. I found the writing really pretentious and condescending, like the author was using big words just to show he knows what they mean, not to add to the story. I also found the constant refrain of Elphaba being an enigma super annoying and sexist.
I read the entire wicked series and am a major Gregory Maguire fan. When the musical first opened he was asked how he felt about the changes made between the book and musical. His answer was that he completely reimagined The Wizard Of Oz, so how could he be upset with someone reimagining his work? I also met him at a book signing and discussion for the third book in the series, and he is very entertaining and very approachable.
That is my view too. Honestly, the MGM movie changed the Wizard of Oz book too and that's for most people the default version (for some people the most recognizable story on Earth). And the earlier attempts to adapt Oz to the stage or screen were even more divergent from both the Wizard of Oz than even Wicked is from its book.
I like hearing that was his response-- I like when artists are humble.
The Book: We don't care for happy endings around here.
The Musical: Love conquers all.
*gay love conquers all
Yeah because the musical’s ending is totally happy what with a miserable woman who felt alone getting murdered so a government can catch her sister, the wizard realizing he killed his one and only daughter and like the video joke will kill himself, Glinda think her best friend is dead because of her and her actions, and Elphaba and Fiyero having to forever leave their homeland unless they want to risk death.
@@ihvojd If you read a little more closely, you'll see that I didn't say that the musical has a happy ending. But compared to the source book, the musical does end more happily.
Or in the musical version: never judge a book by it’s cover.
@@willlyon7129 More like, don't judge a book by its musical.
I remember reading the book when I was 14 (and NOT ready for it). Then that Thanksgiving, my uncle was talking about how much my 10 year old cousin loved seeing "Wicked" and wanted to read the book, and I screamed "NO!" across the table
That was an appropriate reaction. I'm 15 and just finished the book yesterday and, sure I loved it, but I wasn't ready for the Philosophy Club!
If you're ever curious, check out the original outline of the musical from 1998. Some great scenes were cut, and it was definitely darker.
Can't find it anywhere. Have a link?
Yes, please share!
Please do!
sebastian banguis I thought it’d be online! Check out my Twitter feed @Meaghandances I just posted it.
Grace Wenzel it’s on my Twitter feed now @Meaghandances it was in the Stephen Schwartz biography I read.
I actually was introduced to the sequel “Son of a Witch” and oh boy, that would be that would be just as complicated to adapt if they were gonna cut the more darker elements.
*gets out her Wicked Grimmerie* So you're saying that Derrick Wiliams (a Black actor who got cast as Fiyero) was more book-accurate than Norbert Leo Butz?! This is something I wish I told Teen Me.
He's described as having shit colored skin 🤷🏾♂️
@@princeorii7815 that's
a choice
@@princeorii7815 yeah by the racist white people
Book Fiyero seems to be Native American or Polynesian. Musical Fiyero is Book Avaric, who's implied as white
Low-key he was better too
Fun fact Elphaba’s name came from the author of the Oz books, L. Frank Baum. L-FrAnk-BAum
And than there's people like me who first read the book and ended up blindsided by how much was changed for the musical.
This is exactly what I was thinking in response to the "show of hands" question haha. I'm glad someone else thought the same thing.
0:40 I KNEW I WASN'T THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT THE PHILOSOPHY CLUB SCENE WAS NUTS!
Biggest plot hole probably ever: in the first part of the book Elphaba as a baby sees the hot air balloon crash... as a baby. She’s been born. So then how is the wizard her father?????
I guess Maguire just forgot
I love both the book and the musical, so this was a real treat.
When i used to go off the middle half of the book and the idea of the musical itself, I used to think Wicked was basically Wizard Of Oz: College AU
I read the book before the musical came out, and I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the musical, but there's no denying they kind of disney-fied it.
The book is amazing! I remember it being tricky to get through in the beginning, and I'm so glad I kept with it!
There are so many great insights into our world's political landscape, racism, bigotry, oppression, & big topics that many don't like to even look at. It gives a way to see these topics from a non (or less) charged place (removed from many of our own taught & modeled bias), while still highlighting some of the pitfalls & ugliness of tribalism (us vs them).
The musical for me hits the key points of Elphaba's journey. I love knowing the deeper story (that's what I look into in every musical & movie), because it gives insights into the creators & the landscape of the world we were living in at the time of its birth. Its a snapshot of our experience in time.
Interesting how we moved to this place since then. Almost like people didn't read the book so don't understand that giving unlimited power to someone just because they say what makes you feel good (even though its a blatant lie), gets us to dictatorship... 🤷🏾♀️🧙🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️ That's just me though. I tend to see the bigger picture, even when its uncomfortable.
Personally the musical sets music to some of the anthems & shifts in my life, especially Elphaba's songs. As she finds her way through a world who doesn't like her & judges (narratives & misconceptions) her for her skin color. As she expresses her dreams for a future where she is empowered. As she chooses a new role/path in the world that has little place for her or wants her to harm others for the increased power of another. For me these songs resonate deeper, even & especially now that the world is having the bigger conversations.
Could do a video on Heathers? I know I already asked but I meant that for this segment and not the other series.
I read the book as a child before the musical. I stoped reading after the human tiger threesome (just one of the things going on in the philosophy club scene Diva mentioned)
I've never seen the musical but I distinctly remember my older sister buying the book and talking about the musical. Fast forward to my senior yr of hs and I read the book and LOVE it! Still have yet to watch the musical, and maybe this is just nostalgia speaking, but I really did enjoy the first book. It's been like 4-5 yrs since I read it tho
I remember reading somewhere that Schwartz decided he was going to adapt the book before he'd actually read it (he liked the concept) this may be another reason why it's so different.
Once I read the book, I had no desire to see it in musical form since I didn't see how it could be so much fun and carry such heavy themes properly. Weird to know they decided to scrap so much of it for something different anyway.
I must be the only person in the world who read the book first, loved it and has never seen the musical. I've heard the soundtrack album though.
I tried reading the book once, but I think I was a bit too young (yikes, philosophy club). I should probably give it another try, It might just be the weird type of thing I enjoy.
I would love to see the musical if it ever plays near me.
I understood why things got changed for the musical, but whitewashing Fiyero (at least in the racial sense) was a bad move. I know we've had actors of color portray him since, but original cast precedent still holds and it's a bit eyeroll-worthy.
Let's hope the film adaptation casts a non-white actor in the role.
@@EHH246 there will be a film adaptation!?
@@heynae2016 It's in development hell at the moment.
@@EHH246 And has been for years. :(
Personally speaking, I saw the musical with a black Fiero and I thought it was an intentional brilliant move. (I found out later he was understudy to a white guy) How he and Elphaba related to each other made a little more sense, I can’t really describe it but I definitely appreciated the performance.
I skimmed the book in high school just for lulz (by that point, I was already SUPER into the musical), and I eventually reached a moment between Elphaba and Fiyero that had me all like "Whew...it's gettin' a little steamy in here..."
I read the book my senior year as high school and saw the show for my 20th birthday and so excited for the musical's film version (while praying its still good)
I read the book in seventh grade because it was on my English teacher’s shelf of books to borrow. Knowing my community, I’m fairly certain she hadn’t read it, and was going just by the musical. Her husband, the high school choir teacher, censored the unwed pregnancy subplot from Grease when we performed it a few years later. I’ve never read the later books, but as a major fan of Baum’s original series I keep thinking I should eventually
Censoring an unwed pregnancy in a story, that's....really silly of him.
J'acob Albers Especially when we had done Footloose a few years before, which has a whole number called “The Girl Gets morning Around.” At that point I think he was overly careful as the year before the local Christian radio station had said our choir was singing about booze when the song was about blues
@@nolanmcbride5653 That is so stupid.
Gregory Maguire's writing and I just do not seem to get along. I've tried (and tried, and tried) to read his reimaginings of Oz and various fairy tales, but... I can't get in to them. He populates his world with characters I cannot stand, he does weird for the sake of weird (a trait I barely tolerate in creators whos work I actually enjoy), and everything is just so bitter. If I want to be depressed, I'll watch the news.
Me too, too true. I tried-I read Wicked, I read Lost, I read Son of A Witch. I should've learned. I bought his Nutcracker and After Alice books and I haven't really read them, but I regret getting them. Part of me wonders about the Snow White book, Mirror Mirror, but no!
A lot of his characters do act as if they're suffering from depression.
He was originally going to write a non-fiction biography on a historical figure (Stalin? I think?) before he switched gears and wrote Wicked. Make of that what you will
I had read the book back when I was 12/13 since I thought it was just going to be a story about the Wicked Witch before she met Dorothy. I sure wasn’t expecting the topics and adultness of it at all.
Then I found the musical soundtrack and loved it! I want to see the show so much the next time I’m in New York (couldn’t the last time since it was just a day trip on a Christmas vacation with my mother and she didn’t want to see a show)
I haven't read Wicked over ten years, so maybe it will make more thematic sense to me if I reread it, but I never got the choice of the whole years long fugue state thing. It just really messed with my enjoyment of the whole book. Also there is some oddness for oddness sake going on sometimes idek. I remember having a similar problem with the treatment of Candle in Son of a Witch...anyways I remember liking Confessions of an Ugly Step Sister better; I think Hallmark made a movie version of it but I can't remember if it was anything like the book. I bet it was rather different like the musical of Wicked was...
It was disney/abc who adapted Confessions.
Agree.
Confessions is his best, most enjoyable book imo.
The Snow white one was impossibly dry with random Italian (i think?) thrown in. Wicked was up and down. I have the rest of the series but have had no desire to read them. Personally, I love what the musical did.
plus one star Maguire once said he wrote the novel to "deepen her [the Witch's] mystery." So her life is so mysterious, even she doesn't know exactly what happened in it.
that trivia about unlimited and somewhere over the rainbow is phenomenal...i will never listen to either melody the same way again. amazing how completely you can transform a melody while keeping the exact same sequence of notes.
This gives me flashbacks to my friend/musical geek buddy and I reading this together in middle school. Boy was 13-year-old me not ready for this book! Now thanks to this video maybe adult me can finally admit she's ready to give it another shot
Today was certainly a fascinating episode! I had a feeling, looking at the book cover of Wicked on my mom's bed right when the musical was starting to take off, it sounded like something dark from the beginning! Boy, I could never have foreseen just how much so!
I was once on a Gregory Maguire discussion group where I posted my theory that the Scarecrow was Turtle Heart, (SPOILERS) given the manner in which he was sacrificed by the Munchkinlanders. The reaction I got was: "FOR THE LAST TIME, IT'S NOT THE MUSICAL! THE SCARECROW ISN'T FIYERO AND HE ISN'T ANYONE ELSE! GRRRRRRRR!"
that doesn't seem to line up with his attitude toward the musical at all
@@QuikVidGuy The response I got was not from Maguire himself, but from multiple fans on a discussion group devoted to his work.
Can we hear the theory?
@@Quackervoltz There wasn't much to it other than that. (SPOILERS for the book.) Elphaba's parents were in a polyamorous relationship with Turtle Heart when she was a baby. He was a glass blower and created a ball in which baby Elphaba saw the future and the shoes (the not-ruby slippers) that are later enchanted to help Nessarose walk. He is sacrificed by the superstitious Munchkinlanders in a manner that makes him resemble a scarecrow. Turtle Heart was a Quadling and this leads Elphaba to spend her childhood on a religious mission to Quadling Country. Near the end, when Elphaba sees the Scarecrow approaching the castle in Dorothy's group, she assumes he's Fiyero back from the dead and is disappointed that he's not. I thought it would be interesting if the Scarecrow was really a different significant figure from her past, but she didn't realize it. A lot of stuff in the novel is left deliberately ambiguous.
The book is really weird and off kilter. But then so are the original OZ books. I will agree that Wicked and its sequels are pretty dark but I was rather intrigued by the vision of OZ has a nightmare, sometimes totalitarian place. Obviously the author was going after political satire here of the black comic sort. Not for everyone. I saw the musical. Light mindless cotton candy, forgotten almost has quickly.
What if "Wicked" gets adapted into a musical series (like "Glee")? That way they can keep stuff from the musical while adding stuff that was only in the book
Funnily enough, Baum himself wrote a musical of The Wizard of Oz after it got popular. He even dedicated the second Oz book to the actors who portrayed the Scarecrow and Tin Man. And the musical was absolutely nothing like the original novel, despite having the same author. For example, Dorothy is aged up in order to be played by an adult soprano, and she gets multiple marriage proposals in the play. One of her suitors is the Wizard. Yikes.
Bro what?
Still haven't seen the musical, but I read the book because I received a review copy of The Wizard of Oz as American Myth by Alissa Burger. I was having trouble understanding how some of her comments on WICKED could be so (such as how Elphaba could be pregnant and give birth without knowing it). The book version was interesting, but since it ignored the fact that the Winkies remained long-nosed and green-skinned after the Wicked Witch of the West was killed in the MGM movie (suggesting that the Witch's looks were normal there), I'd have to consider it an alternate universe version.
I love the books, especially the last one. I don't really compare it to the musical though; I like them both for what they are. (My dad's cousin's stepson played Boq in the original Broadway production run though)
CHRISTOPHER FUCKING FITZGERALD???
Funny enough I read wicked before listening to the musical. I own the book now, I love the book, and the musical is also really good we just kinda forget about all that sex... Lots and lots of sex.... My god so much sex.
You have to admit, Turttleheart is quite the lover from the description we get.
Yeah.... that philosophy club scene still haunts me to this day. The book is great tho
You mentioned The Scene. The Philosophy Club. We do not speak of The Scene. The council shall decide your fate.
0:40 Is "that scene" the one with the lion cub? That's all I'll give, barely spoils the scene.
*Correction it's not that AT ALL! It appears I've repressed that scene entirely.
Yeah, the Lion cub is dark enough, but the one with the Tiger and the whip and the... Ozma cosplayer... yeah, that scar remains after I've forgotten ninety percent of the plot.
So I was one of those theater nerds who read the book in high school immediately after listening to the cast recording because I just wanted more Wicked content. After finishing it I would brag to anyone who would listen about having read it. Looking back, the act of reading the book wasn't good...like at all. I wasn't having fun, I wasn't sucked in, I wasn't truly intrigued and in general I didn't enjoy the expereince nor did it really stick with me. Im starting to think the book suffers something that a musical cant really suffer: an overabundance of world building. Im willing to bet money that whether or not they can articulate it, what most people enjoy about the musical is that it is largely character based and driven. Why should we care about the scarcrows true origin? Or the wizards identity? or the wicked witch of the east? or even Glinda who was largely a plot device in the film? Because Elphaba cares and she is our point of view character. Thats still technically true in the book but I remember reading long stretches of world building and thinking Ddo I really need to know this right now? Because Elphaba doesnt or isnt doing anything abut it right now."
I read this book a while ago and loved it this writer has flair. It reminded me of my father's other daughter but this young lady became a apprentice-she did a dirty deed that dosed her permanently green. Later, she liked a fjord and he was of another spices-they shock hands and carried out with no strings attached. There's more but until tomorrow.
I was a weird opposite. I got the book when it was new because my mother saw it in a book store and thought it would be to my tastes. It was years later that the musical came out and I thought the musical was MUCH better.
Glinda sent Dorothy on a murder spree for political power. Change my mind.
The musical version of Wicked feels much more true to the Oz I read as a kid, so it feels more like home, although I'm not blind to its problems (whitewashing Fiyero, etc.). The book version made me want to never read anything Oz-related again, although I can acknowledge its objective merits.
I have the book Wicked! I got it a while ago and I haven’t quite been able to read it but I plan on it and plan on continuing the series when I get the chance. I’m a huge fan of Wicked!! Both book and show!
It's a real shame that since that 30's movie, the entire Oz franchise has to be compared to, or rely on said movie. There's at least 2 cartoon series directly inspired by the movie. The short lived and freaking weird 1990's DIC show and then there's some sort of kiddyfied thing that aired on Boomerang that unmistakably uses "Over the Rainbow" as the theme tune.
there was also an animated Wizard of Oz TV show with a cubist looking art style in the 60's
That's a little more divorced from that source material and seems to be its own thing. There's also an "Oz Kids" show, but I have only heard of it and it sounds like it borrows from the books for the most part. I'm just saying, there's way too much of the franchise fixated on being the 30's movie. I want to see more things that are based off the original books and do their own thing as a result.
I can't help but agree.
*Return to Oz: delightfully weird mashing-together of the second and third books, but Disney actually paid for the rights for the Ruby Slippers to connect it back to 1939.
*Tin Man: Sci-fi reimagining of the book that turns into an epic adventure? Sure! Still feels the need to characterize Kansas in black-and-white, with the Gales' house number being 39 to boot.
*Muppet Wizard of Oz: Let's be real, there was no saving MWoO. But it still made jokes that relied on having seen the 1939 film/known about its legacy.
Just about the only iteration that is (as far as I can think) completely divorced from depending on the Garland movie is The Wiz, but that still gets compared to it all the time.
That lousy Muppets adaption seemed to borrow from every previously known version. The Flying Monkeys as a biker gang was from the Wiz. Supposedly it even has things from the original novels as well. But overall, just... worst Muppet movie ever. The characters barely shine though the lousy American Idol tie in it was meant to be when Fox was producing it. We lost a GREAT Hamlet parody with music by Robert Lopez for a cheap familiar tie in. And frankly, the original Muppet Movie WAS basically a reference to Wizard of Oz to begin with, and a far better one.
@@SpamEggSausage I watched that as a child. It was attached to a live-action kiddie show. The cartoons were produced by Videocraft, which became Rankin-Bass.
th-cam.com/video/brqnui9dV9o/w-d-xo.html
Apart from whitewashing Fiyero, I think the musical was a MASSIVE improvement over the actual book. The book was convoluted, was all over the place, the characters aren't engaging, and is just a terrible book. That being said, can we PLEASE have a brown man in the role of Fiyero in the movie and in the stage musical from now on? My choices for Fiyero in the movie are Jordan Fisher and Corbin Bleu.
I agree about the musical being better then the book. I read it years before I saw the musical and it was a tedious slog. After seeing the musical, I felt bad the next time I saw Glinda and the Wicked Witch interact in The Wizard of Oz, watching these two former best friends be on opposite sides.
jordan fisher as fiyero would be perfection
Can we also talk about how Fiyero turns into the scarecrow, and Boq into the tin woodman in the musical? It doesn't really dovetail with when and how Dorothy meets the scarecrow, the tin woodsman, and the cowardly lion in the original story, and also considering that the scarecrow in Wizard of Oz would never have left Dorothy's side. IIRC, none of that happens in the book... The Scarecrow and Tin Man in the book are completely different characters. I like that the creators of the musical wanted to create the link between the original Wizard of Oz and Dorothy's journey and this story, but the timing is all wrong for trying to merge those characters here.
I agree. None of the book characters are relatable
There has been poc actors as Fiyero. Look it up and don’t always assume the worst.
I tried to read the book years ago and was thrown for such a loop. I've got to get back to it at some point.
I read the book first and hearing friends play the soundtrack made me do a double take wondering if it they were two different things with the same name
I liked Wicked the first time I saw it and tried to read the book, but couldn't get through it. As another commenter said, sometimes it just felt like weirdness for weirdness sake. I think I stopped reading around the part where she was living at Fiyero's with his widow. I've seen the musical since then and now that I'm older it doesn't really do much for me, either. In concept I like a lot of the ideas, but the book is too weird and depressing and the show is too over the top and shallow.
That's how it was meant to be. The book is Elphaba narrating her journey and the Musical is Glinda's perception hence the disparity. Superb really
I was in a writing club in Boston back when Maguire first published "Wicked," and one of our writing teachers was friends with Maguire, so we read the book when it first came out, and got to talk to him about writing. When it was announced that a musical was coming out based on the book, I couldn't understand how it'd translate, but I do love the musical for what it does, even if it's a really edited version of the book.
Middle school me truly was shocked when reading the original book
The musical had the right idea. The Wizard of Oz is silly and upbeat and vibrant, so they might as well go all out with it. Playing up these qualities makes a perspective flip work, where it wouldn't otherwise. It's how it works where Maleficent was a cringey flop.
The novel was rather dry and downbeat. Not musical material without the major changes.
I wonder if they’ll combine some elements of both the novel and musical for it’s cinematic adaptation.
I read the book back in secondary school, it was a bit more difficult than I was expecting it to be but loved it nonetheless. The musical on the other hand was just way too disneyfied, sure 'Defying Gravity' is brilliant and all, but other than that, it was just too sugary. I remember that both a direct film adaptation of the book and another for the musical version were in development but neither came into fruition. Edit: A Stephen Sondheim musical adaptation would have been so much better.
"Who got blindsided" considering I read the book first, nope
I've only seen fragments and unofficial recordings of "Wicked", but have listened to the soundtrack more times than is probably healthy. I only recently discovered the play and books, and have to say, the play feels like a good adaptation of the book; the play has nice homages to the book, like The Clock of the Time Dragon and Fiyero being the Scarecrow being the most prominent.
Honestly the changes are pretty fitting
The Wizard of Oz book was dark and gritty, but the movie is mostly lighthearted and magical, with a few dark moments.
So it's fitting that Wicked would be the exact same way.
I don't remember the book being gritty at all
@@h193013The series was pretty intense as a whole, but maybe not the first book as much. It gets cut out in some versions, but the tin man dismembers an entire pack of wolves. There's a lot of Baum's politics in the later books as well
i always wanted to see wicked to learn more about the wicked witched and glinda. honestly when i got older and rewatched the original wisard of os i never liked glinda seriously putting dorothy through all that trauma just to finally tell her oh by the way you can go home any time you just head to click your heels three times. if i were dorothy i would have said before i go there is one more witch i have to kill. sorry for any spelling errors one of my keys doesn't work.
I read the book a long time before the musical. Lol
I read the book after i saw the play, my parents got it for me because I loved the show, and lemme tell you, 13 year old me was not prepared. I still don’t know what the hell the philosophy club was supposed to mean but It definitely made an impression. That and the part where they have sex for the first (?) time: “blue diamonds on a green field”
It’s one of my Favorite Books of all time !
"When the forest sends us..." I see what you did. Well played! 😸
You know what’s funny. The book was published the year I was born and the music premiered a few years later in October 30th, my birthday and this is my favorite musical.
I remember my parents giving me the book Wicked for my 13th birthday since they knew how much I'd liked Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister and the original Oz books. It was...A LOT for a young teen, but it quickly became and still is my favorite book. I also enjoy the sequels.
I'm glad I read the book before seeing the musical. I'll happily admit that Wicked's my favorite musical, but I view it as almost fanfic of the book.
I’m glad they adapted the book to Broadway and it was that Marc Platt and Stephen Schwartz were able to do it to bring an audience to see something fresh and brand new on a stage to attract a live audience that would be something magical and gorgeous costumes and lightning design and terrific singing and dancing. Now in the 2020s they will be adapting the show into movie musical. Before the creators of South Park made Book of Mormon and before Lin Manuel Miranda made In the Heights and Hamilton on Broadway that’s how we established pop culture on what it is and right now today. Because Broadway had a long with Ziegfeld, Al Jolson, George Gershwin, Rogers and Hammerstein and Stephen Sondheim and Hal Prince and James Lapine and Jerry Herman to Jonathan Larson to Walt Disney theatrical productions
What is the philosophy club scene? Is it like an x-rated version of the "As long as your mine" scene?
It's like if Willy Wonka ran a burlesque show.
NSFW READ AT OWN RISK
.
,
.
,
.
,
.
.
Beastiality. I think one of the male characters ended up drugged and was raped a tiger. Said character later dies of an illness that sounds like AIDS. :/
@@CrystalDragen Oh my god, I remember now! I might have actually repressed it from my memory.
Oooooh my 16 year old mind was blown away after reading the book. I read it first before seeing the musical. It really threw me off. Both before seeing the musical and after. XD
In the chapter geographys of the seen and unseen he used the word ticktokism as a religion. this book came out years before tick tock
I'm one of those who actually read the book before listening to the soundtrack (still haven't seen it on stage). Both are enjoyable, but yeah, the different media make for very different takes on the same story. But really, isn't that true when you throw in the movie musical and the original Baum tale as well? Same basic story from different perspectives, which when you get down to it, was what Maguire was after in the first place.
omg wicked is my favorite musical, i just subscribed to you, I own a copy of wicked (the book) BUT I haven't read it don't want to be spoiled :( guess no new musical hell video for me
But at the end of the stage show doesn’t elphaba live and run off with fiyero
Maybe in some way this is a sanitized child friendly version of elphabas life story told by Glinda where she cuts out all the dark morbid stuff out of her former friends life story but if elphaba was the 1 telling her own life's story she probably would've told her entire lifes story including all the gory detail
I didn't enjoy the book Wicked bc it mixed the oz books with the movie, which was disappointing bc I like the books and think they don't get enough love - plus it was just...so very heavy. I got depressed reading it. Never seen the musical, don't know it's plot, but what I have seen is quite different from both its book and the oz books.
I had a copy of Son of a Witch at one point but I never finished it. I should really get back on it AND I should read this too
I was just talking about this with some friends. The best way to describe it; someone read the book, and thought; I could write it better
Honestly, I think the problem with the book, in my opinion, is a bit too boring, and dose a list of obvious foreshadowing that dosn’t go anywhere
One of the rare instances where the musical is much better than the source material.
It happens sometimes.
I wonder if the movie version of Wicked is going to follow the novel more closely but giving Glinda a bigger part like the musical. The movie is 2 parts so I have a feeling we are going to get way more stuff from the novel that was left out of the musical.
I read the book in high school after I saw the musical when I was 17. I should reread it because most of it was quite complicated and I feel like I would get it more now that I'm in my mid twenties. I read the rest of the trilogy as well and they're pretty interesting.
Everytime I hear someone mention the novel Wicked, I always hope that they noticed that Elphaba is implied to be intersex, and I think you're the first one I've heard mention it.
well i'm offically shocked
I red the book and not really seen the musical but I also read the musical story on Wikipedia and I got to tell you the musical is nothing like the book at all
When I heard Wicked was first a book made into a musical, I decided to check it out, but I liked the musical more than the book because the book was too long!
my dad tried reading this to me when I was 12. we didn't last a chapter
How about "At The Source: The Once And Future King"? It's interesting to note that in the musical Camelot, Lancelot is quite full of himself at the start--as you said, "a more principled version of Gaston". He's also very handsome. Whereas in TOAFK, Lancelot is full of self-loathing and self-doubt, overdoing his piety because he believes himself to be inherently sinful and wicked. This may stem from the fact that T.H. White's Lancelot is quite ugly...he seems to believe he was born this way as some sort of punishment. That's where he gets his epithet, "The Ill-Made Knight", which in its original French could also be taken to mean "The Cursed Knight."
Cool.
My mother let her 13 year old son read this book
I just wanted fiyero to have the blue hair like he does in the book for the musical. 🤷🏻♀️
I love both but separately bc the source and musical are vastly different. I still need to buy and read the last installment 🙃.
Blue hair?
A very cringey adult novel
I bought the book on impulse and soldiered my way through the first 1/3 or so, before I found the Elfaba character drawn (deliberately?) too repulsive to hold my interest or sympathies; at which point I put the book down, for my niece to pick it up years later. Just a matter of taste, I guess...
The book need a flim adaption