ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Episode 43 - This is the first of a new Unreleased series covering canceled games for the 3DO M2. To start off, I'll be covering the history of the system then jump right into the unreleased games. This episode covers all canceled games scheduled for release on the M2 alphabetically A-D.
Follow me on twitter to keep up to date on the latest happenings concerning this channel. Also for those post containing the occasional farm animal.
/ jenovi
-Jenovi
Retro Impressions
Some of my sources for this video.
(1) My interview with Trip Hawkins
(2) Tons of various magazines and newspapers.
(Really too much to notate)
Videos Used
• バトルトライスト オープニング デモ（Bat...
• SFC7 第22戦 バトルトライスト（Bat...
• Army Men gameplay (PC ...
• Video
• D2 Game Prototype for ...
• Batman Forever (Arcade...
• Incubation Narrated pl...
• [TAS] Clayfighters 63⅓...
• DeathKeep 3DO Astral T...
• Descent - Gameplay [HD]
• BioSwarm (BattleSport ...
• Disruptor (PSX) - Map ...
• (***RETIRED***) Summer...
• 3DO M2 Tech Demo
• 3DO M2 Car demo
• Panasonic REAL 3DO Com...
::::: Hardware Breakdown ::::
-3DO
From those who worked on the M2:
My limited knowledge of the Saturn and PSX suggest that trying to
do dymanically-computed textures on them would be extraordinarily arduous.
With M2, it's a snap. This lets you easily and cheaply pull tricks like
"video feedback." In fact, one of our earlier demos had a TV set object
which was displaying the current camera view. So when you moved the
camera to point at the TV screen... It was pretty cool.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Leo L. Schwab -- D
the demo tape featuring the D&D-style
monster fight and the racing game were fakes... excuse me, simulations,
created using Alias.
The animations were based on a set of theoretical rendering speeds,
which were later shown to be tremendously optimistic when actual silicon
arrived.
Still, the numbers we did get out of BDA were pretty damn
impressive; 300K polygons/sec in a typical case (2x N64), 500K if you're
dilligent...
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Leo L. Schwab -
THOSE* demos! You mean the ones with sailboat in the lagoon
and Bossie the cow (actually a hermaphrodite; it had horns *and* an udder)
behind the cyclone fence? I had completely forgotten about those.
Yeah, those videos were generated using a software simulation of
the BDA chip. They were extremely legit, and in fact the Bossie-behind-
the-fence demo was ported to real hardware, and worked precisely as
advertised. I don't think anyone ever got around to porting the sailboat
program; the people who wrote it were immersed in more important things by
the time real silicon showed up.
You've seen the N64 controller, right? Well, the prototype M2
controller I saw looked very similar. However, it was built using
prototype plastics. For those of you who have never seen the stuff
before, it's this yellowish-white substance that isn't very pretty (it
doesn't need to be; it's for prototypes).
So here we are, looking at this yellowish-white thing with a long
central component and two smaller roundish components at one end, and it
was just completely impossible for us to keep a straight face when anyone
grabbed hold of it...
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Leo L. Schwab
All public Opera demos were run on actual hardware. The original Opera
machines were 13 boards of silicon, which were later compressed into
3 chips, but the "giant graphics engine" was the actual Opera hardware.
Some of the very early very speculative PRIVATE Opera demos were
mockups, but these were never represented as running on real hardware.
They were in fact video tapes of our guesses as to what the hardware
would eventually do.
The approach to the M2 demos was another story altogether...
--
"Stephen H. Landrum"
I remember reading about the M2 in video game magazines around 1996 and 1997, but I never knew how the far the console got in its development before it was discontinued before even being released. Good video.
It was readly to launch. A desaster. Panasonic had enough power but were frightened.
Fun fact: When Trip Hawkins founded 3DO, he wanted to collaborate with Sega on the distribution of the system. It was something discussed between Trip Hawkins and Tom Kalinsky at the time, but was kept under NDAs(Non-disclosure agreement) for 28 years. That was until Tom in an interview disclosed it recently on how Trip approached him for a collaboration joint effort to distribute it giving Sega half the profits for it. The only issue with that however was that their Japanese counterpart didn't approve of such a venture that ultimately it didn't work out. But tom did wish Trip the best of luck and they remained close then and even now!
This is my favorite series on TH-cam right now. Love it! I feel like in a lot of ways, the original D was a proof-point for what you could do on the 3DO. I think that D2 could have been a real system seller on the M2 (in its original form) and helped it stand out from the crowd in a big way. Can't wait for the next entry in this series. Keep up the great work.
I don't think people realize the struggle and expense of having a pc capable of running new games during the time which the M2 would have be on the market. Tech was smashing along at the time and it was fairly common to buy a game that wouldn't run on the hardware you owned. Top of the line was quickly obsolete just two or three years later. For me, the M2 offered stability while offering up some incredible games most folks would be hard pressed to run on their home computers. Sports games aside, the list of games in development for the system was very strong and would have most certainly satisfied the demands of late 90's gamers.
dude, i cant believe both you and @jenovi released a new video on the same day around the same time. dont spoil me now! >.
i remember those days vividly. how easy it is to forget how every pc game had an extremely specific set of requirements to run at an fps faster than a slideshow. my first two experiences with this were two pc games: Space Bunnies Must Die! (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Bunnies_Must_Die!) and Dead Reckoning (www.mobygames.com/game/windows/dead-reckoning)
i literally had to play them at a "friend's" house because his pc was newer than mine and had enough ram and processing power to handle the games at decent speeds.
having something such as the M2 was basically akin to owning a dreamcast, which was more powerful than most gaming pcs when it launched. i dont know why many people dont seem to remember this, but this was a huge thorn in the side 90s pc gaming.
Yes, D2 on M2 is awesome looking. I love the shown story elements. I love D2 on Dreamcast.
@@Tekknorg It's pre-rendered. It's obvious.
In a different timeline where things went differently we are gearing up for the release of the 3DO M5, Dreamcast 4 and Atari ... umm... Cheetah?
Yes I love the f'n 3DO! I always find M2 info interesting.
SegaCDUniverse there's a prototype games for it on the hidden palace but sadly there's no emulators for it right now
I remember reading about the M2 way back. Another good vid, man.
Thanks Jason, I appreciate the love.
funnily enough, i own the fz-35s multimedia player variant of the panasonic m2 which youve probably seen videos of floating around online. it literally wont play anything but "m2" discs (i have no idea what format they use for those discs). i managed to get the chevy kiosk disc to boot on it, and that racing game that was leaked online some years ago.
it uses the panasonic controller from the previous 3DO consoles. when i had initially acquired it, i had no idea what it was. i sort of mistook it for a dvd player. and about 5-6 years back, i realized that it had "m2 technology" in it.
i remember some guys on forums tried to get konami m2 games to boot on it (to no avail). ultimately, it's just some obscure variant of the m2 technology which is likely to be lost in the ether of the internet.
anyway, it's always neat hearing about this console, and what it could have been. i honestly think if the console came out, it would have had a short lived lifespan since things like the PS2, XBox, and Gamecube were around the corner. And let's not forget about the fate of the Dreamcast. it just shows how even having a good console is not enough to dominate the ever growing (back then) video game market.
if i had to pinpoint how powerful the m2 is/would have been, i'd say it's something like a PS1.5 or a nintendo 64 with a steroid boost (better textures and sound due to less compression). it would have been too "in between" to properly compete with any particular generation of game consoles. though, if they did include a dvd drive much like how the playstation 2 did, it may have lasted slightly longer than the dreamcast did. it's hard to even say that they would have eventually manufactured the consoles with a dvd drive in the first place though. while the multimedia variant i have (fz-35s) comes with a dvd drive, the (much rarer) console prototypes (such as the fz-21s) seem to only support cds. so, who really knows?
great content as usual, man. i cant thank you enough.
I still find it a bit wild that those are a thing. How is the racing game? I've heard good things about it.
yeah, i thought i was being trolled or something when i read that they even used the m2 technology in coffee vending machines. i guess they gotta put that $100 million they spent to good use somehow.
the racing game felt like an enhanced nintendo 64 game or a playstation game that was enhanced, then ported to the dreamcast. not quite as high poly as the average dreamcast game, but not quite low poly enough to be mistaken as a playstation 1 or original 3DO game. the multimedia player has A LOT of video outputs available, including vga, which gives it sharpness. without me knowing how the fz-21s variant would have been produced as a commercial game console, i dont know whether this sharpness would have came across as anything special.
i do think the racing game was merely a proof of concept, and the console is/was capable of much more. maybe even dreamcast levels of poly pushing, or close enough to hold its own chops.
do you think D2, the way it was made for the M2 would have done well on the dreamcast or PS2?
Chevy Kiosk and Coffee machines. It's a crazy end.
Two versions exists: One reads only M2 format and one has also a Floppy Disk Drive. Apparently for a program called Viz House, I think. There are also other applications for elderly people in Japan and surveillance, GE marketing and presention in the U.S. and driving tests for Japan, if I remember correctly.
any idea as to whether the japanese one made for elderly people was able to read M2 format?
i almost imported some of those into the states, but by the time i got around to do it, the website i found them on was gone.
I’m really loving the Unreleased series. I’m very excited to see where this is going next. The pacing in this series is awesome it just makes me want more.
Thanks Tim! Yeah, the M2 Series should last another 3 episodes at minimum. I might cover the Jag after that. I have some other ideas for additional Unreleased content down the road, but I'm trying to stay away from doing a compete series like this on larger systems such as the PSX.
The president of Universal Interactive was Mark Cerny, not Mark Carney. Great video, I'm fascinated by the M2. Someone had said graphically it would've been about halfway between the N64 and Dreamcast.
You're totally right. I didn't see it correct when copying it over from NextGen Mag.
So, I found an interview with Greg Tavares, who worked on GEX (3DO) and DISRUPTOR on the 3DO M2
He says the M2 game got as far as (very compressed) animated characters, the M2 hardware, only having 2Mb Ram, meant you were VERY limited with what you could do with textures and the System had some serious technical issues, which made it very hard to get any speed from it.
One of my favorite topics
Glad to hear. Around 3 more episodes on the way.
This console is so interesting especially in the history of the M2.
This is one of your best video’s so far
Thanks!
That controller that inspired the N64 pad! 3do is another one of those consoles that I always wanted but could never afford.
Thankfully, it's much cheaper now then when new.
Ultra 64 was first. Panasonic was inspired by Nintendo. M2 prototype controllers are 3DZero fire 3rd party pads that were upgraded by 3DO and sent to developers who had M2 development kits (Version G was $10,000 in 1996), they look reaaaally prototype almost bootleg. They work with FZ35S Players, although normal 3DO pads work also but miss the perspective option in IMSA.
the M2 is always neat to look into. it would have been interesting to get battle tryst on a console. oh well atleats konami put out a goofy fighter known as Kensei: Sacred Fist on PS1
That game wasn't well reviewed... right? Poor Konami.
yeah it was not great. not the worst fighter iv played but mediocre. also it has a dude that looks like edward from twilight so not cool XD
How did I miss this fucking video, I was at that conference in your video! I got to see the M2 prototype, we also had a demo exactly like the one in your video. We had so much hope for M2, I know it sounds ridiculous now but back then we were huge Trip fans, we had faith in the dude. IMO the M2 prototype console is one of the coolest looking consoles ever made.
The funny thing about the obviously prerendered E3 demos is that in the footage we have of the E3 conference, the camera man is just done with 3DO and goes "yeah, too bad games won't look like that."
This was a great video, the M2 is something even i didn't know very much about and you've got me wanting to do my homework
Thanks mate!
Great topic. I was one of the lucky few that had a 3do when it originally came out. I remember eagerly awaiting for the M2, and the amazing games that were coming for it. I remember there being talk of an arcade perfect port of Ultimate MK3 being developed for it as well. I was so dissapointed when I found out the 3do was dying. I ended up getting a Saturn, but I still have my original FZ-10 console. There's definitely many gems on the 3do, especially what may be my all time favorite game Studio 3do's Killing Time.
Thanks for sharing that. Two consoles what weren't sold where I live were the 3DO and Saturn. I absolutely love these systems. It's unfortunate they didn't receive more love.
I was really looking forward to Ultimate MK3 but at least we still got Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo and Samurai Showdown.
I also remember seeing Mortal Kombat being teased in a GamePro magazine when I was a teenager. I was really disappointed when it was never released. Over the years I was hoping an unreleased version would surface, allowing us to experience a portion of the game.
Such an underrated channel. Absolutely love your stuff, can't wait to see you grow in the retro community!
This M2 stuff is wonderful. Heck, the entire Unreleased Games series is amazing. I'd love to see it feature more hardware.
positive or negative
Diablo's developers were releasing a 3D football game for this at the time it bellied up.
These 10 min. raced away like nothing. Good video. At the time when I released IMSA for M2 i was in contact with some former 3DO programmers (sound, graphics, kernel). All of them were helfpul and patient. And all of them successfull today in what theyre doing. Trip Hawkings was always fair to his workers they said. One of them (the kernel guy) told me, his wife made the rendered car demo as seen in your video. It is also part of the official 3DO M2 SDK on Mac. 10 years ago the official 3DO Zone / Zero forums were very active, they are still alive. And yes, one guy said Eno said D2 M2 is lost. But this person is at the same time not trustworthy in some aspects (not a 3DO person). So, who knows? Maybe someday... By the way there are some official 3DO programmers on youtube. One is ewhac and the other gammadev. The 2nd one helped me also a lot. They play 3DO and have interesting things to say in their videos.
I’m covering IMSA in part 2. I really appreciate this post. I’ll be sure to check out the devs you mentioned. If you have Twitter, shoot me a DM. I would love to hear the story behind IMSA’s release.
I don't have twitter, only facebook. If you want, check out this old topic on 3DO Zone. I am "NikeX" and invited Mr. Werner (graphics) to talk about M2. He was the one who helped me with IMSA. The contact to him was great, always friendly and helpful: www.3do.cdinteractive.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1796
You could also try to contact him.
Got another one for you. Here is the little scandal that slowed the release of IMSA down. The person responsible is the same saying D2 is lost. 3do.cdinteractive.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1324&start=30
Thank you for this. How did you obtain IMSA? I would like to talk about it on my next video. Want to DM me on facebook? facebook.com/jenovisretroimpressions/
That Konami fighting game looks fun to try out. Also had no idea this console even existed, probably gotta look up more about that before watching the others. Good stuff, Jenovi.
Konami has never released a good fighting game. It's a shame....
Thanks for checking this out. The concept behind Battle Tryst looks interesting. It's set in a game show where you battle to the death. It also included the Belmonts from Castlevania.
Very professional, I have seen other channels with nowhere near as much professionalism as you and they seem to have more subs.. you need to ask around for some collabs.. need to get the word out there my friend.. until then.. keep up the good work.. its always nice to watch a well put together video. great stuff. Also.. just a little FYI.. people dont always watch till the end.. you need to make sure people know this is PART 1.. of a bigger series.. especially as part 2 doesnt seem to be the next video in the playlist..
Thanks for the feedback and for checking out my videos. I corrected the playlist issue and appreciate the notice. It's something that I wouldn't have caught without the heads up. I'm glad to hear when someone feels what I'm doing is quality because it's like a full-time job time wise putting these videos together.
Back in the 90s it was common for people to stack lots of TVs together to make one huge TV. Just a fun fact for you all, lol. This is similar to how we do extended screens today in windows and on Macs.
The 3DO is making a comeback, some games are worth playing.
Absolutely! Look at Starfighter, for example: Free movement like in No Man´s Sky and even leaving the planet! And it looks better than the PSX / SAT versions. Or the obscure Dr. Hauzer on 3DO. It has an optional 1st person view, and it is like an early Resident Evil / Alone in the Dark game. The soccer game Fifa in 3DO was revolutionary,
Killing Time and POed are by far my two favorite 3DO games. Both of them pushed the 3DOs limits in terms of graphics combined with massive map designs.
The 3D0 Mini?
I would have liked to see "Descent" in the M2. It's one of my favorite old-school FPS.
@The Furthest Man From Home I think the problem to port the game was the controls that surely can be messy to adapt to a controller. In the keyboard goes well but I think that in a non dual-analog controller the game controls can be tedious to convert.
I had no clue the M2 was even a thing. Great coverage!
It's crazy that it happened.... then never released.
I distinctly recall the N64 controller influencing the design of the M2 controller. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know I saw the N64 controller about a year or so before seeing the M2 controller. Mainly because I remember thinking "That looks like a dumb knockoff of Nintendo's controller."
It's really hard to say. The form factor is very close but the M2 controller had advantages. The main one being the circle around the D-pad which was an analogue control designed first and foremost for driving games.
M2 technology is more elusive than NUON.
Not interested in the 3DO but the video was very enjoyable! As a game dev myself (unrealised) games histories are always interesting so keep up with the good work 😉
Thanks! What systems do you develop games for?
thank u soo much for the video ,,,plz continue
Thanks for the love. I have at least three more for the M2.
I eagerly await part two!
It’s out.
I've used to play this when I was young.
God, I would love to see Descent on a modern system.
Me too.
Awesome video. I should across your channel looking for D2 information. I'm definitely subscribing!
Thanks!
dope. i ever seacrhed for M2 titlez. Thank you, also from Naughty Dog!
Be sure to cover the unreleased driving sim for M2, WCR, when you get a chance. It got leaked some years back, and it works on the M2 kiosk units also. Those units can output s-video and VGA both and are capable of using original 3DO gamepads. I used to have a few of them that I sold for a decent amount of cash, but I made sure to record one running that game, along with some demo shooter and a car demo disc.
th-cam.com/video/0Uq4RB23ZTI/w-d-xo.html
Thats the video I put up of the software I had running on it. Having had actual hands on experience with the unit, I can def confirm it was much more advanced then the N64 was. Visually, and speed wise, it felt more on par with a Pentium Pro paired with a Voodoo 1 running highly optimized. The frame rate in the racing game, World Championship Racing, never seemed to drop below 3ofps. If it did, it wasn't something that was obvious to me as I played. It ran at a nice high resolution, and everything, including textures, looked very crisp, given the year it was made. If you skip to the 8:50 mark in the video you will see a car in a show room, with multiple light effects taking place over a highly detailed car model. This was generated in real time by the hardware, and was not just some fmv clip.
The core hardware design was also robust enough that it supported IDE hard drives, and IDE CD-Rom and DVD-Rom drives. Two of my kiosk units actually had 10gb hard drives in them and dvd drives. I honestly think, given this system had been given a proper launch with good developer support, a decent lifespan and good sales numbers. But I also think they would have had to shoot for a more adult oriented consumer base.
Oh, I've seen this video. I'm covering IMSA in the next part... I'm assuming that's WCR?
Alright!! Thank you!
Happy to know that the M2 was the most powerful console of the 5th generation. Take that Nintendo 64!
Sanyo was sold to Panasonic in 2009
Battlesport 2, Battle Tryst, were Probably average games but could not Match up with the amount of games released for PSX. Although Psx had alot of games i personally thing most of them were either mediocre or Bad but Fortunately some of them were awesome and Timeless.
D2 on Dreamcast is a weird and Interesting game although It could not compete with Silent Hill or Resident Evil.
Army Men wasnt an RTS it was a top down shooter, there was an Army Men RTS but it was like a decade later
Digitized asses??! I’m sorry I missed that!
Kind of dumb the VPs of both companies not liking each other as I think they could have solved each other's problems, Panasonic had the hardware and Sega had the software. 3DO games weren't very strong collectively and as much as I like the DC I'd have preferred that M2 controller. ;) Still it looks like Panasonic was getting better at the software game, the M2 titles looked better than 3DO titles.
If the M2 hardware could have been released as a Sega console in 1996 instead of the Saturn in 1995, I think Sega would have been much better off. It was clear that the M2 was significantly ahead of the N64 hardware, but timing would have been of the essence... a release in 1997 for instance, would have been pushing it because that's only 4 years before the launch of the PS2, which would have blown M2 out of the water. Even the Dreamcast, I think, is significantly more powerful than the M2. So I really think 1996 was the window for that.
Branded as a Sega system probably would have helped it do WAY better, especially if you consider that had Sega waited until 1996 for their next console, they could have supported the 32X for significantly longer and lost less customer confidence because of that fact. Really, in hindsight it seems like a total win for Sega and a win for the 3DO company.
While I love my Saturn and I will never stop playing it, it's definitely intriguing to think about what could have been. M2 was clearly a decent leap forward but it needed to be timed right and I think that's the main reason why it went nowhere when Matsushita purchased it.
In childhood, wonder about opportunities with middle stick. In present, it looks like completely fail
so...nintendo not only stole the M2's controller when they "created" the n64 controller...they also stole the "dream team" (when announcing said 64, the handful of devs including rare)
I kinda wish this system came out...
Dude, I was about to say " whe is the intro catchphrase?" Ok its on 3:39
That's awesome someone noticed. It didn't really seem appropriate any earlier in the video.
imagine if 3do, atari jaguar, and sega saturn win the war of 5th gen console and n64/playstation never exist.
OMG 100 million, jesus christ...
The story of how Trip got the 100 million is really interesting. I didn’t feel it fit in the video, and I was trying to keep the history part short, so I left it out.
Now imagine the marketing costs and production of consoles. Easily 500 mio $ or more.
That controller is similar to Nintendo 64 controller.
Imagine paying 700 freedom bucks in 1993 for the 3do and then the ps1 came out in 1994 in japan and later 1995 in America with far better hardware. Then the ps1 only cost 299. Damn
Good graphics for 1998.
Sonic Adventure was released in 1998...
Nice vid!
Thank you.
С такими играми , 3DO снова потерпела бы поражение. Особенно снеговик с графикой как на snes.
👍
I will never get it, salmiac first wanted to make distupter for the psx but due thd high costly dev kit for the psx they decided to make it for the 3DO but but since that console did not sold well (and possibly the 3DO could not run that game smooth??) they somehow decided to port it to the psx all because a friend of some guy from salmiac handed over their psx dev kit to them sothat they could make the game for the psx ,why not also a pc ,N64 and saturn version of it,fuck damnit.
This is pretty average as it can get, if salmiac really wanted to make money they should had to port that game to multiple platforms not only to the fucking psx?,
BTW sony should consider theirselfes lucky that no game dev turned off them because of the high costly psx dev tool kit.
DAMNIT!!
On a very small side note, Sony saw the success 3DO was having with small developers and their games and decided to emulated that strategy around this time. Disrupter would have been the first wave of studios to benefit from these extra low-cost indie development house deals one the PSX.
What's interesting that the pre rendered Ego shooter demo shows the very same enemy that is part of Disruptor for PSX, can't remember the level, but uploaded a video years ago.
What game is at 3:05?
This could’ve been an amazing console had shit gone right
Começou a lançar o videogame no ano errado.
Ок.
Battle Tryst looks better thant Virtua Fighter 2 and tekken 2....
I've been told it's a good game by those who've played it.
Bring back 3D0 M2 SYSTEM and make it Kill XBOX ONE AND PSTATION
I feel like the M2 is one system that would listen to and execute the commands you give it.