How Does a Fluid Coupler Work? I 3D Printed one that Uses Vegetable Oil!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.พ. 2023
- Files: drive.google.com/drive/folder...
Today, I bring you my 3D printed fluid coupler. Out of curiosity, I wanted to know if I could 3D print a working fluid coupler that works on the same principals as one you would find in a car. The fluid coupler uses vegetable oil as its fluid much like how a transmission uses transmission fluid. I explain how a fluid coupler works in case you are curious yourself.
#3dprinting #engineering - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
if you have one of those "electronic kitchen scales" you can let the output arm push on the scale and measure the weight (i.e. force / 9.8 [kgm/s2]), and then work from there (arm angle when pushing down, delta rpm). delta rpm will be input rpm as the output arm is being held by the scale top in equilibrium. this is of course assuming the arm does not break or slide over the shaft. excited for the new videos, please keep up! 😀 also maybe measure separately the transferred torque due to static friction when there is no oil in the chamber to be precise.
Thank you! That's not a bad testing method, very similar to brake dynamometry. The scale would be certainly more accurate.
This is it right here! If you use a microcontroller to capture the RPM and force measurements over a sweep of the trigger, you'd be cooking with gas!
I was gonna say the same thing 😂
Stalling is not when a fluid coupling is "locked up one to one"(Which it never is supposed to be(Without a clutch) as it works on hydrodynamic principles), stalling is when the pump is rotating but the turbine does not.
Edit : Just wanted to add that the video is quite damn cool anyway.
Thank you! My mistake, too bad TH-cam doesn't have the annotations feature anymore to address that
I just came here to say that. In the 1960s and 1970s, stall speed for the typical car was around 1200 rpm. Folks building drag strip cars would put in high stall speed torque converters, typically around 1800 rpm, but some as high as 2400 rpm. It may seem counter intuitive to have more slip, but the engine made more horsepower at a higher rpm and the torque converter took that power and converted it to shear torque to launch the car off the line.
I worked at exedy(one of the largest torque converter companies in the us) for a few years, the impeller blades has a bit more of a curve to them to make the fluid flow in a loop more efficiently, kind of like opposing fan blades
Like a more toroidal path?
@@LimabeanStudios yes, the flow is kind of like a water wiggler(google it) so that it's just a donut like circle
Yeah, these are the key part of an automatic transmission on a non-electric/hybrid car. This allows the gearbox and engine to do whatever they damn well please and still have the wheels receiving smooth torque delivery. You can start out in second gear when you have slippery conditions on the road without worrying about clutch wear because it's being operated as it would be with a normal gear change.
There have been some really cool manual designs with torque converters
@@notserpmale03 Ooh. That does sound like fun to drive
And Konsiegg said what the hell do we even need a transmission? They exclusivley use a honking big torque converter in the regara.
@@notserpmale03That would be cool. Not needing to worry about clutch ware and stuff like that. The issiue is, atleast as far as i'm aware, that the fluid coupling is Way,Way less energy efficient than a mechanical one,therefore it burns more fuel. If i'm wrong, please correct me tho.
The neat thing about fluid couplings like those found in automatic cars and trucks is that they are designed to multiply input torque before they stall and become a one-to-one coupling, making it easier to get the vehicle moving
Yes, but you need a stator for that to work
That's a really cool design. and great explanation on how it works.
One thing I'll mention about your testing with the arm and water bottle. Once the arm reaches the upwards position the weight of the water is no longer applying torque to the output shaft, rather it's just pulling down on the coupler. Something I would suggest is making a pulley wheel where the string wraps around circularly and has a constant torque.
That's not a bad idea, defiantly would save me from snapping more armatures.
Even better than a circle, make a cam profile that makes a longer moment arm as it rotates (similar to a snail shell)
Man I love this style of video, it’s not some “engineer” making a 20 minute video making something stupid and MASSIVELY overblowing simple issues, you are more like an actual engineer/mechanic you know what you’re doing and you’re confident which is very refreshing to see, and the presentation is superb, no music, no hyper energetic moron, no montages, just a man building and explaining, well done.
Thank you! I felt the design didn't need to be more than what it was to work effectively, hence why I settled for making a fluid coupler instead of a torque converter.
The first ever dude that I've witnessed to make a torque converter :D Earned a sub.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
@@CamdenBowen any chance you would hook it up to a working engine and put it into an RC car? 🔥
great video as always, really enjoying these 3d printed spinny thingy mechanisms (like car parts but not necessarily limited to stuff used on real cars). keep it up!
Thank you! They're alot of fun to make!
THIS IS AMAZING, PLEASE KEEP THIS SERIES GOING!
If you curve the veins more like torque converter to flick the oil faster you can actually get a faster speed out of the fluid coupler. I don't know if this reduces the torque slightly (I think it dose but I'm not sure).
That is a good idea, I in the future would like to experiment with using more veins, different fluids and so forth to optimize the design
I don't see how you could increase speed without loosing torque: you can't make power up
@@NicksStuff It's making power. It's transferring power more efficiently.
@@mrnlce7939
High speed, low torque.
Low speed, high torque.
Simple.
Very cool - quite impressive to have such an effective transmitter of torque with just simple 3D printed parts and hardware. I can see this design being useful for applications where the 3D printed material is at risk of breakage. A coupler that will stall before the breaking point of the material would be really helpful, the one depicted here is just *too* effective. Nice work!
This video somehow reminded me of an experiment i did as a kid where i attempted to design and build a "Non-newtonian fluid clutch" that was supposed to connect an input-shaft to an output-shaft when applying pressure to a non-newtownian fluid which in this case it was good old cornstarch and water mix aka. Oobleck. The applied pressure would then cause the non-newtonian fluid to solidify/ "stiffen up" between two "gripsurfaces"/ impellers causing them to lock up and transmit force between the two shafts. Despite all my enthusiastic effort involving few a different designs/ modifications to the clutch, the non-newtonian fluid and fluid level used inside the clutch i never got it to work properly (In my defence the only resources/ i had available at the time was a small vice, a drillpress and a dremel tool plus a few other regular handtools like hacksaw, hammers, files and screwdrivers and of course no internet. IIRC one of the first driveshafts i made was made out of a long nail)😄
I guess if it had ever been sucsessfull enough to make it to the commercial marked i could have coloured the non-newtonian fluid blue and sold it with the slogan "gets stiff and gets you moving" 😏
Thank you for explaining the concept in the very first second of the video!
Thank you! I hate watching video's where I need to skip in to figure out what the hell they're talking about, so I figured I'd save you the trouble
GREAT VIDEO! I mean, yeah, I learned a lot about the subject matter, but for only 33 videos? The video quality, sound, lighting... you look and sound GREAT! I'm impressed! New subscriber! I think I can learn a lot from you! You have clearly made a time investment on the video here!
Also you should clamp the housing down so it's not interfering with the test because it's basically a clutch in an automatic transmission
I, like you, enjoy building and creating. I have been dabbling in the arts of electric and mechanical engineering for 25 years as a hobbiest. I find your videos to be inspiring amd well made. Well done, my new subscription. Well done!
Put that together with your gas engine and make a fully (mostly) 3d printed RC car!
You can fix a torque wrench to the output and in/decrease the torque as needed
The turbulence inside the fluid coupling will generate heat. That's why most fluid couplings are made of aluminum and have fins on the back side. Aluminum is a good conductor of heat and the fins increase the surface area. I'd would be curious to see if your fluid coupling begins to distort after transmitting power for more than a few minutes.
If I had a means to spin it faster and for longer I'd love to see this thing shred apart, despite the mess
First time to see someone made a hydrodinamic clutch
This is in every automatic car you’ve ever driven
@@notserpmale03 So you've been to a torque converter factory? How many have yo sen been made before? ZERO just like the OP?
@@toolbaggers lmao that’s not what he was saying but go off lmfao
@@toolbaggerswtf??
@@notserpmale03that is quite literally exactly what OP said - “first time I have seen one”
Most have never seen a torque converter.
Awesome! 😁👍 I've seen other people put an output arm on a set of scales and measure the torque that way.
Maybe that is what I will need to try, I might have one of those hanging tension scales somewhere
Great work, keep it up 👍
Very nice video! Thank you!
Such a cool video, next step make a big ass one with the internal one way spinning turbine
really cool idea!!
Thank you!
I'm surprised the oil doesn't froth up and become less effective. Never heard of a fluid coupler before but that's amazing.
That description of the fluid is one of the things that could happen, but at higher pressures (ie higher energy) everything that can happen, will happen, and you end up with the opposite flow at the same time, so they cancel out and it really just creates high pressure at the edge.
Great content!
Thank you!
This is awesome! Do you release models anywhere so people can print their own?
Thanks! I always forget to release the files afterwards. Expect to see them in the description later today
Interesting work
Thank you!
great vid, i recommend getting a resin printer with clear resin
Very interesting......... One question, what would have if you replaced the fluid with a non-newtonian fluid?
0:16 crap😂😂😂😂 i saw many episodes of your channle but this particular video made me to subscribe .
When measuring the torque, the shaft should be horizontal, otherwise the torque applied by the bottle would be lower. Of course, it has to pass through the horizontal position anyway, but the bottle has momentum by that point
I wonder if this type fluid coupling would do for some highly geared bicycle...
Thanks for the video!
It's possible, but would make it less efficient lol
I still have no idea how it works but it's rlly cool
Wow! Awesome video!! Without your specific story telling style, I would have missed out on the surprise that it broke the arm off on the test that it did. hahaha! Thank you!!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Have you thought about adding a stator to for the torque multiplication effects prior to it hitting its stall speed?
I have, however it is very difficult at this size to have it cooperate to the system. In a much larger one it may work better
@@CamdenBowen understood, thank you.
I was always interested in torque converters so this video is great. hydraulic cylinders next?
I've wanted to try hydraulic systems. Maybe sometime down the road I will get to it.
The "a-boot" gives you away, my Canadian neighbor.
This would be cool on an rc car.
It would be cool to use the parts to create molds for metal casting, and make an rc car with strong metal parts.
You can calculate the dynamics torque if you connect a electric generator on it and measure the power output in kw ,then add the energy loses and last take the equation hp = torque/rpm and solve it for torque
Would it be possible to use this in line with an up hill flow tesla valve? To be able to get high pressure water to the top of a hill while allowing for hydo power also??
You could print a flange gasket out of TPU.
Nice high stall torque converter!
Gotta send this to the torque test channel
Buse a fish scale on the armature also fluid couplers actually multiply torque so its going to be more torque than your drill is providing. Muxh more rhan a few water bottles
You could have used an analogical or digital scale with a hook on its end. In my opinion it would have showed much detailed results.
Exceedingly amazing hair style
Exceedingly unkempt hair, I've been due for a haircut for a little while now lol
Idk precisely how much torque you can provide with your arm, but I'm quite sure it's a lot higher than like 0.3N/m (a high estimation of the torque on the axle) so I think a better way to test this would be using a heavy weight or a water dispenser bottle
Sorry for the non metric units but the logic should follow, most drills have tourque ratings in the hundreds of inch pounds. So worst case say its 100inch pounds, say the converter is only 50 percent efficient, that puts 50 inch pounds on that arm. A full water bottle is about a pound, to stop that shaft the arm would at minimum need to be 50inches long
I would be more interested in the dynamic torque produced by this. Also how efficient is the power transfer?
I am going to conduct more tests in the next video, one of these tests will measure the dynamic torque as it speeds up. The power transfer efficiency will be a lot more difficult to measure, I would need to determine the torque of the input drill and then compare it to the torque of the output. Finding the torque from the drill is difficult as I will need more test equipment
@@CamdenBowen You could try using eddy current clutches. I use them to measure torque (and power) on my 3DP-engine. I think it could work well for this coupler.
Looking forward to whatever you come up with!
Actively change fluid density with ferrofluid and electro magnets
awesome clutch! would it be possible to have a clutch optimized to work only with the steel bb's?
Thank you! Yes and no, the BB's are too large to flow the same way a fluid would and create a progressive slip. Once the pump spins to the threshold where the BB's start to migrate to the impeller they just smack the side of it and lock up immediately, like dropping a clutch in a manual car. Maybe something of smaller particles may work, like sand or flour.
@@CamdenBowen interesting
Do you know what years they started to put them in cars and if they still do?
About 1980's.
Fluid couplers like the one I presented in the video are no longer used in vehicles. Fluid couplers are only really found in industrial applications these days like in mining applications. In the 40's General Motors invented the first automatic transmission that used this type of coupler called the "Hydramatic". Chrysler followed it up with their "Powerflite" transmission. About 10 years later GM invented the "Dynaflow" transmission which used a different kind of fluid coupler called the Torque Converter. Torque converters manipulate the fluid inside to actually increase the output torque at low speeds (a little bit like how a CVT transmission works). Ever since, automatic cars have used the torque converter as it is much more efficient in the automotive industry. Hope this helps!
@@CamdenBowen can you please try to make a torque converter?
@@cenreaper9127tbf it's not a radically different thing, moreso an improved fluid coupler with some different internal geometry. The overall fundamental concept is still the same.
Also at high/cruise speeds, torque converters will often have a system that mechanically couples the two sides together for true 1:1 direct torque coupling.
Saline Teacup for the nose. Its my only legit solution for clarity in my own speech. That and not being overheated with a swollen tongue.
manual transmission vs torque converter . And which one get more efficient torque output ?
I've been wanting to make a gokart clutch like this so it would never wear out besides bearings
Fluid coupling may be an excellent solution for use with a diesel engine driving an aircraft or helicopter propeller. It could potentially be a "buffer" to reduce torque changes, to smoothen the vibration from the engine to propeller/drive system. These effects are from what I understand basically one of two challenges in using compression ignition diesel engines in aircraft.
The biggest issue with torque converters is that they can never be 100% efficient. A clutch, once it has fully grabbed, will spin with the two sides locked together. The fluid always has frictional losses of a few percent though.
But they are just so incredibly effective anyways that they can still apply very large amounts of force and they still have a very high efficiency for anything they might be compared to. Honestly, if they were cheap they might be a good way to power a bike from a SMALL engine because at low revs they wouldn't over power the brakes, but they might have a higher top speed than most bike engines do because they lack any sort of transmission.
Torque converters and turn speed into torque though and the greater the difference in speed between the two sides the greater the torque produced as the fluid imparts all of its momentum onto the vanes of the receiving turbine.
Long and short is I have wanted to put one on a bike to see how well it would work but automotive torque converters are not fit for the purpose.
Just attach a torque wrench to the end. It will tell you exactly how much it's putting out
This is how Koenigsegg regera direct drive Works very cool project 👏
How reliable have the TPU shaft seals been?
thats cool! custard instead of oil?
magnetic coupler, alternating magnet to a copper inverse magnetic field induction plate
can be also mechanically locked as a clutch
distance based clutch operating mode
fishing bob
highway
no touch magnetic friction
I think you should get an endorsement deal with JB Weld
You need to turn the whole thing upright like a top when adding the oil, you're losing half of your efficiency leaving air inside of the torque converter, it needs to be filled to the max.
What is JB weld? Im always looking for something to glue my PLA peices together, so far epoxy is the best ive found.
what I use particularly is Jb quickweld. It cures in 4 hours and is extremely tough when cured, it is a two part mixture and is available in most hardware stores or online.
@@CamdenBowen okay yeah probably similar to epoxy
Did you upload the stl files I'd love to print this and use it in a few things also in the automotive world this is called a torque converter
I will upload the files to the description. This is a fluid coupler which is different from a torque converter, torque converts have a 3rd set of blades inside called the stator which manipulates the fluid to increase torque output at low speeds. A fluid coupler simple couples two shafts using fluid dynamics.
@Camden Bowen ah ok makes sense
How can you be sure the rod isn't transmitting torque through the case, when the case is spinning?
Exactly my thoughts. There could be quite some power transmission, since there is no bearing and the friction between the shaft and case should be considerable.
Landrover Freelanders use a fluid couple for "active" 4x4..
May I make a suggestion?
Prony brake
Could you please make a 2 cylider gas engine with your 3d printer
Is this even working as a fluid coupler? It seems like the rotating seals on the outside housing might just be grabbing the other shaft by friction. Maybe you could try an empty test to check for housing to shaft friction, but the variability of plastic parts might confound that if you don't use the exact same pieces.
I had a simulated brake on one end, it required a threshold amount of torque to break the static friction. The shaft at low speed and/or without fluid would not come close too that threshold. It's not very efficient, but it foes demonstrate the principals
What would ferrofluid do? As I understand it it changes effective density and viscosity as it responds to magnetic fields,
could make an electronically controlled variable torque converter!
Would be exceptionally interesting if it included its own generator and act like a governor!
That is very interesting, at low speeds with a low viscosity prevents the engine from stalling out. But with a high viscosity it could possibly even control the stall speed of the coupler
Interesting concept
Seems like a great way to help with wear and tear of a clutch 👍
What are you planning to use it on?
Thank you! I had thoughts of mating it with an weed eater motor to see if it could drive a bike maybe. Possibly something for the future
@@CamdenBowen sounds like a great project can’t wait 😀
@@CamdenBowen could you test it as bicycle drive Instead of gearbox?
Do you publish the .stl files anywhere? Patreon maybe?
I'll add them to the description later, I tend to forget until someone reminds me lol
Use it as a torque converter for the engine attached to your transmission.
You should add this to a nitro rc car that's heavy so it simulates an actual car but small sized and not as heavy
Could be a fun experiment, load it up with mass until the coupler can't move the car
@@CamdenBowenyup
@@CamdenBowenwhen's the next video coming out just so I know and don't gotta keep checking lol
@@Matthewbarnes23 I've got a surprise video planned but it won't be for a little while. You could always turn on the bell notifications as well :)
@@CamdenBowenI have a video idea for an experiment so I came up with this idea for an infinite energy engine meaning a four stroke engine that doesn't fire and is only powered by air when the intake valve comes down lol meaning air traveling only one way through the air tank so the engine uses the air over and over again but you'll need one way valves on the air tank or bike tire sleeves and you'll have to fill up the tank first lol
Lol did u see my comment on the last video u made cuz I think I said something about making a 3d printed torque converter or something it's basically the same as fluid coupling
It was something I had already wanted to try and make at some point, but after seeing the comment I decided to give it a try!
LETS GO FIRE
just use a load cell to meassure the peak torque
Here I am now staring at my Rc car... And a Toyan Engine I have laying around🤔
Why don’t you put the arm onto a scale and measure the torque by torque=force*distance? Think that would work :)
The problem is the system has no net movement under load, so the distance would = 0. By multiplying the force by the length of the arm works in this case.
Well, you've already made a torque converter, you're more than halfway done to building an adjustable dynamometer
Комментарий в поддержку канала и ролика, а также труда мастера.
Habor freight sell digital torque meters.
Add a stator and turn that slip into extra torque
I actually know some people that build performance torque converters if you need so insight I could possibly get you in touch
"The fluid coupler should last as long as the vehicle itself." *Angry ZJ noises*
Evil genius goatee 🤣
I used to wear it squared off like Neo Cortex does from Crash Bandicoot
how about putting something non-newtonian like oobleck
what is Jbweld?
this is but it isnt how a fluid coupling works.
sure, centrifugal force flings the oil out, gives it velocity. without it, they wouldnt work.
there is no reaction or impulse effect used in transferring power.
rather, its the sheer strength of the fluid having velocity.
think of the oil exiting the tip of the pump as pins, engaging with slots on the turbine. a lovejoy coupling. a very... _squishy_ type of lovejoy coupling...
the pins strength is determined by the velocity of the oil. and its viscosity. the faster the flow, the stronger it is.
the coupling strength controlled by the number of "pins". more blades!
the oil flows in a spiral path, a vortex... much like a spring. the more turns, the harder it is to sheer that spring down its length.
the oil though, upon exiting the turbine and re-entering the pump, is flowing in the wrong direction, and the resulting flow is a chaotic turbulence. heating the oil up, wasting power.
the torque convertor is slightly different in that it still uses the sheer strength, but it also uses fluid velocity and the reaction to its change in direction in the turbine.
the oil leaving the turbine, now flowing the wrong way, is redirected by a third member to flow in the same direction as the pump, and again, there is a reaction on the pump blades, assisting them, from the fluid velocity and its change of direction.
as the fluid velocity increases, so does the sheer strength and coupling effect, combined with reaction forces, so that when the turbine is stalled, not rotating, oil velocity is at a maximum and torque is multiplied, because the power that wasnt being transferred then acts directly back on the pump and assists it in trying to transfer power to the turbine...
fluid couplings dont multiply torque, they consume it. can happily run them slipping at 2:1, but the torque transferred will be less than half, unlike a real 2:1 gearbox that would double the torque. all that power will dissipate as heat in the oil...
a torque convertor will be amplifying torque, but due to slip it will always be less than a true gearbox.
you never see small torque convertors because they dont scale down. its all about diameter and RPM to get the fluid velocity up. the bigger they are, the lower the stall speeds.
fluid couplings can be made small because generally theyre used where inefficiency doesnt matter, its about the soft squishy coupling forces, limited torque transfer, ability to withstand such conditions without failure...
go ped made one... lol.
7:19 wait a minute you put the TPU coupler on there and then do a jump cut and there’s no more TPU coupler.
Put a fish weight scale on the armature
Connect it to a torque wrench, spin away and watch
Cool beans.....
actually, it is a hydrodynamic cvt
I think you’re spinning the wrong one. If you actually look at a automobile the outer housing of the entire torque converter(fluid coupling) is mounted to the power unit(engine) externally so you should be spinning the entire housing and putting the load on the other end
It doesn't matter in this case, the reason why engines spin the housing is so the torque converter can easily be mounted to the flex plate such that the output shaft can easily slip into the transmission. Since both sides are identical Spinning either side produces similar results
@@CamdenBowen makes sense 👌 I agree with that logic
I knew it