Everybody to Harry, all the time: "You have your mother's eyes!" Filmmakers: * cast a brown-eyed woman as the mother to blue-eyed Harry * Audience: "You had ONE job!"
@@trinaq Yeah, but they could have gotten the actress playing Lily contact lenses or change her eye colour with FX in post-production. She didn't have all that many scenes, after all it would have been doable!
It still gets me when Snape says, "You've been raising him like a pig for slaughter." Alan Rickman was so masterful in that scene. You can see the disgust on his face and hear the quiet outrage in that line.
@@ben1ben2ben1 I haven't read the book, but i'm assuming you have. My question for you (and others who have read the book) is: Do you prefer the book Snape? or the movie Snape? Do you prefer the villian over the hero?
And the funny thing is, Dumbledore made sure that not only would Harry die, but he'd have the tools necessary to come back to life; the Resurrection Stone hidden in the Golden Snitch. People call Dumbledore a monster and "the real villain" but he played Voldy like a fiddle. He knew evil couldn't comprehend good and so Voldy would never suspect anything of not going according to HIS plan. Dumbledore didn't raise Harry like a pig for slaughter. He gave him every possible advantage to conquer the Dark Lord and emerge alive. The only real monster is of course Voldemort...and maybe Umbridge.
@Avankiri. Harry coming back to life during the Deathly Hallows has absolutely nothing to do with the Resurrection Stone. Nothing. In the story of the Three Brothers & the 4 loved ones Harry recalls with the Resurrection Stone are basically ghosts. They don’t have corporal forms. They don’t have bodies. They’re spirits. When Harry comes back he returns to his body. That’s because of two things. 1) Voldemort used Harry’s blood to rebuild his own body & in doing so he tethered Harry to life. The protection Lily gave Harry extended to Voldemort & lived on through Voldemort which tied Harry to life. Dumbledore explained it in the book. 2) Voldemort cast the Killing Curse at Harry with a wand who’s allegiance was to Harry. Harry had the loyalty of the Elder Wand even though Voldemort was using it. Harry was the true master of the Elder Wand & a wand will not harm it’s master. So when Voldemort used the wand that was loyal to Harry to cast a curse at Harry it didn’t work. The curse destroyed the part of Voldemort that was in Harry, not Harry himself. The Resurrection Stone played no part in Harry’s survival or his ability to return to this life.
To which Dumbledore says, "Don't tell me now that you've grown to care for the boy." And that's when Snape unleashes his patronus, and that's when it hit him. "Lili! After all this time."
Whether Snape is a Hero or Villan? I think Allan Rickman actually said it best: when asked why he always plays villains he said 'I don't play villains, I play complex characters.' I don't think Snape could ever truly fit entirely in either category. He's a man who did very bad things, and very good things.
@@StarRider253 - His past shows us him as a Death Eater. This means not only he wore that creepy mask that erased his identity, but also that he may have committed crimes, maybe he killed people, both in Magic world and in Muggle one. Maybe not even Dumbledore knew how many things he had already done. Dumbledore just knew how great Snape's skills could be, and not just magic and potions, but his deep feelings, strong, hidden and not common. He had been bad, very bad, almost a criminal. His past is full of darkness, so he DID made very bad things, indeed.
I agree, he is neither fully good or fully bad. He's like a third party with his own interests, but debts on either side. He needed Dumbledore and couldn't just leave Voldy without loosing his life. But he always followed his own agenda - Lily, or more: Revenge and repaying his debt to her. And for that he did, what he needed to do. Everything else was just colleteral damage. He's not a good man, but did good things for his own agenda. He's a mean bully, but also a hero in his own way.
@Kuningaz Well, he DID kill Dumbledore, even if Dumby asked him to do it. And he WAS a Death Eater. And as such (spy or not) he probably needed to do cruel stuff to prove his loyalty to Voldy, since Snakeface wasn't known for his trustful and forgiving nature, yes? Spying alone probably didn't do the job. It's just speculation, but not an highly imaginary one.
Yes and no, he did a great job portraying movie Snape. But is is very far off from the book Snape that has very few redeeming qualities, the movies really polished him up and took away his nasty and pettiness. Rickman is brilliant, much better then the character itself deserves.
@@TFAric I personally view the books and movies as their own seperate stories. Snape is my favourite character in the movies, but I don't like him in the books. The movies removed a lot of the more mean-spirited stuff from the books, not just in regards to Snape, but especially in his case.
I agree. Although for the upcoming reboot, I think Adam Driver would be amazing. We already know that he can play conflicted characters from his tenure as Kylo Ren, he has a similar voice, and he even has the nose.
@@Niobesnuppa That is why I think he was an awful book Snape but did the movie role well. I hope the series goes back to the childish, petty, spiteful sad little man that is book Snape.
On retrospect, it makes sense for Snape to insult Harry about James, but NEVER about Lily. You wouldn't think too fondly over someone who bullied you, but you would over someone who had been a genuine friend.
That's really interesting. Not being able to see that Harry is a combination og his parents and everything he has experienced. Like others, Snape needs Harry to represent something other than his actual self.
@@Firegen1 Precisely, nice to meet you again, Firegen1! Also, Sirius clearly views Harry as an alternative for James, which is why he proclaims "Nice one, James!" just before his death.
I find it interesting that because Snape never dealt with his anger over James/Sirius’ bullying behavior, he was so willing to project that image on to Harry. He knew Harry grew up in an abusive, neglectful environment and instead of standing back to observe Harry in the new wizarding world environment, he automatically assumes Harry is an arrogant little dick. I often wonder how much of it is for the double agent role and how much of it is actual projection.
I feel like when he says to Harry “you have your mother’s eyes” he’s not just saying goodbye to Harry, he’s saying Goodbye to Lily and is finally letting go of the struggle he’s endured his entire life
that Goodbye is heartbreaking but when harry sees Severus's memories and realizes the truth about him, I bet he felt like the biggest idiot on the planet for his stupidity and cruelty.
I think Snape saying “you have your mother’s eyes” was so impactful, especially to Harry. Everyone has told Harry that he has his mother’s eyes, but everyone else who said it was closer to his father and said it as kinda a way of saying “oh you’re just like your father but different eyes”, this was the first time someone said to Harry “You’re just like your mother and she was loved too. Not just for being James’ wife, but because she was a wonderful and impactful person who was loved.”
It dosnt mean visually. Harrys eyes looked nothing like Lillys. He looked like James down to the glasses. "You have your mothers eyes" always meant her "kindness". She was always described as " kindness in her eyes". When they tell harry he has his mothers eyes, they are telling him "you look like James, but you feel like Lilly". That's something Snape is admitting as he dies. Harry, despite thinking this man is a villain rushes to aid/comfort him as hes dying. Hes not looking at him in disgust like everyone always has except for Lilly, he looks at him with Empathy... Snape is finally able to say out loud "you have your mothers eyes".
@@spoons250 FALSE. This is down to the movies not casting actors with correct eye colors (which at the end of the day doesn't matter much, it's just fun to gripe about). In the books this is very much a literal attribute that Harry and Lilly share. They both have the same vivid green eyes. Of course, Harry is also remarked to be a lot more like his mother in the way he behaves than his father, but based on what we know about James as an adult (not at Hogwarts), there's no reason to assume he wouldn't have shown the same compassion Lilly or Harry would. The difference is that James had to mature into having that nature where Harry and Lilly had it to begin with.
I think it was a thoughtful addition and agree with you ; especially since the full sentence everyone says is "You look just like your father, except the eyes".
@@spoons250 I'm sorry, but this is completely and categorically false. In the book, when Harry is in the Pensieve after Snape's death, we read how Snape was crushed at Lily's death and Dumbledore asks him to help protect Harry, and this is shown in the movie. However, the movie omits how Dumbledore says, "he has Lily's eyes. I am sure you remember the exact shape and color of her eyes?" Having Lily's eyes is a literal thing. Of course, in the some Pensieve chapter, Dumbledore tells Snape that he sees what he expects to see in Harry (Snape was comparing Harry to James), but that his base nature was more like that of his mother, which makes your point too. I say all that to say this: Harry looks just like James except for having his mother's eyes, and his temperament is more like hers than James. No need to make these two statements exclusive. They can both be true.
Personally, I think that in those last moments, Snape FINALLY sees that everybody was right and Harry really, actually is a lot more like his mother than his father, because there is absolutely no universe where James would have done what Harry did in that moment. Kneeling there quietly while he's dying painfully and trying to help him, I think he had a sudden realization that no, this is all Lily and I've been wrong this whole time.
When I read the books, I hated Snape until the end of the last book. In the movies I felt for him, Rickman brought a whole new dimension to the character and made him so much more than just a villain.
Alan Rickman was a wonderful casting choice for Snape. Honestly, a lot of the parts were wonderfully cast. Can you imagine how hard it is the cast so many kids? Who basically have to grow into their roles.
I disagree with you. True it may he is less likeable in books than movies. But there is a lot redemption things he did in books never mentioned in movies
@@MMD_16-95 there was a lot more reading between the lines in the books that was almost too obvious in the movies. Because we could see the characters as they are rather than through Harry's perception.
Even in the books I never really cared for him, Snape feels too creepy to me - Lily never returned his interest and that lead him to have her killed, and then you have the guilt over her death, but at the same time he was absolutely monstrous to innocent kids. It's less of a redemption and more of Dumbledore finding an use for an incel...
@@tiffanysandmeier4753 Yeah. I mean in books he told Dumbledore " recently only those who i couldn't save " !!! And even called Lily. Lily potter! Not Evans .
yeah and i hate that rowling is like "why would anyone like malfoy, hes supposed to be hated!" as if there arent thousands of children in abusive households that go to school and bully other kids
@@Sputterbug I mean I never liked his character but hate is a strong word… it’s not his fault his father is an asshole. It’s hard to stand up to family
@@lunarialoonatic Is there any backstory about lucius? i have some theories about why he's such a looser trying to be accepted by Voldemort: like we know you are a pure blood, why are you trying so hard? but i've never looked for any canon info about his life.
What always gets me in the movie version pensieve memories is the part where Lily says "Harry, Mama loves you... Dada loves you..." That was the last time anyone told that kid they loved him for at least 10-13 years. The Dursleys hate him, kids don't always recognize when a friend needs to hear that in so many words, so at the earliest it might have come from Sirius or Mrs Weasley. A heartbreaking but brilliant choice by the scriptwriter.
It always touches me how Molly adopts Harry. Especially at the end of the 4th book. She gave him a love that he couldn’t remember having his whole life.
As a mom of an almost 2 year old, this part wrecks me every time. Just sobbing. I cannot fathom having to say goodbye to my child and make sure to tell him that his dad and mom love him as a last reminder. 💔
And listening to it again, I realize that to a certain extent that was also an unbreakable spell that she cast on Harry. The spell of love that caused Voldemort's curse to bounce back on him. It's the spell that every person in the world should get to hear from someone, especially when they're little: "You are loved. You are safe. You matter."
@@urja330 I think he did. I remember in the Order of Phoenix, there is a chapter where Harry went into the Pensive and saw how James and Sirius were verbally abusing him, calling him "Snivellous."
@@urja330 How did you came to this conclusion? Yes Harry's dad and his friends bullied him. In Pottermore, it's stated that Sirius and James "bullied him relentlessly" and that Snape's dad often used the belt on Snape. But even without Pottermore, the bullying is explicit in the books.
This ONE scene at the ponsieve completely redefined Dumbledore. It turned him into one of the coldest, most calculating characters in the entire series. The guy who would do ANYTHING for the greater good.
@@dohavename6775 yes but Snape had to do a lot of the legwork for this greater good… dumbledore got the praise for being the good guy and Snape had to be the worst person to achieve the greater good…
When he says, "Take it," is a great look into this character. He's dying, he can finally tell Potter everything, unburden his soul, but he does none of it. His first thought is for the mission.
@@Bennahr_Fett is that an excuse to bully children and kill Dumbledore or somehow be redeemed? Or harassing Lily and calling her a mudblood and not leaving her alone? His character makes no sense and quite awful in all honestly. He deserved to die. Fuck that guy
True but if it was just for the mission he could have cut out most of the memory, instead he wanted Harry to know all of it and how much he cared about Lilly.
One main theme of the books is Harry's heroes being flawed and wrong and having made giant mistakes. Hagrid was foolish, Sirius was impulsive and reckless and sometimes mean, James was arrogant, Lupin was week and unreliable, Dumbledore was ambitious and manipulative. Harry has to acknowledge that, and forgive them. Snape is the opposite, the perfect balance. He is someone Harry hated, he was cruel and malicious, and Harry has to also see the good things he did. He has to see Snape the abuser, as a human, who was hurt, who loved, and who was very very brave.
I cannot accept the part about Lupin (he his my favourite character and i have a soft spot for him - although i know where you're going with this), but the general thought is real good
@@acleamofhope He's one of my favorites too. I really want to state my case, but I'm going to use my little bit of self-control and not, even though it's one of my favorite monologues. Please continue to love Lupin exactly as you do. I was mainly referring to big argument and Harry being disappointed.
@@acleamofhope he did doubt Sirius, he ran away for over a decade, he tried to leave his wife and unborn son. He wasn’t perfect, he had a tendency to try and run away
@@Jellybeansatdusk yeah, that's true. But he also had an incurable illness that made his life really hard, every month over and over again. But the good thing about J.K.R. characters is that they all have their strengths and weaknesses, so of course he had some too
I totally read Dumbledore's "Please!" as kill me please in the books. He was in tremendous pain and he knows that he was about to die from drinking the potion.
Yes it was pleading, but not due to pain but because of the plan. However the book is a lot more ambiguous with the way Dumbledore pleads like this video said. In the movie there isn’t same emotional connection with the way Dumbledore is behaving, he is more in control.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 Well i found both Dumbledore and Snape being a bit out of character so i immidietely suspected something, and hoped that it was so also.
The Snape vs McGonagol battle in the films shows whose side he’s on - he never fights back, and when he knows it’s time to flee he makes sure the last deflected spells take out the death eaters behind him so that she doesn’t have to fight them too
Go back and watch the other scenes where Snape is present and children are in actual danger. Every time, Snape is protecting. He is subtle and sneaky enough to not be obvious. But he is constantly physically protecting not just Harry but all of the Hogwarts kids.
I think Snape is one of the most “real” characters… he’s villainous and also heroic. People are always a mixture of traits and behaviours - most of us are capable of being villainous and heroic.
I don't believe he's villainous, except out of necessity (well, in the movie universe - I'd need to reread the books to get a more accurate interpretation). But, yes - definitely the most real character. And what a character.
When Harry entered shapes mind there was a memory of a man screaming at a woman who looked like Snape. Then later in shapes memories lily asks Snape if his parents are still fighting.
There was a part in the books when Lily asked Snape if things were better at home... then something like "he doesn't like anything much" in response to another one of Lily's questions... he was definitely neglected, his parents seemed to be always fighting, they lived in the "poor" area of the city(?), he was really looking forward to going away...
I think at some point some limited collectors edition booksets were sold world wide, where extra chapters were introduced in each book (some books had more than others). My brother got one of those collections, and he told my that the 6th book in that collection was full of extra chapters detailing Snape's childhood, and how abusive it was
They mention too that this is why he goes by Half Blood Prince... Prince is his mother's maiden name and he resented having his abusive (muggle) father's surname. I don't think they ever explained that in the movies.
In the movie POA, Snape rushes to protect the three from Lupin when Snape thought they were in trouble, it was that moment I realized Snape was not a villain. The default behavior in times of crisis is revealing.
I feel like he did it because he felt Hogwarts was the only place he could call "home", like there wasn't any other place for him to go. Teaching was just the price to pay for having a place to be. Maybe it reminded him of Lily and wanted to be as close to her as possible?
I don't know I'd say if there was time (in books) when he was happy it was when he could bully someone. He is only described as happy when someone else is suffering and teaching kids gave him lot of opportunities.
@@jimmalou1978 I agree with him hating it, but I wouldn't say he wasn't successful. Despite his rampant cruelties, every single major character, including Neville, did well on the OWLs for potions, so at the very least, his instruction must have gotten across.
@@Vincent.E.M.Thorn.Author neville did much better at OWLs than he did with snape, harry also did much better when he only used snape's knowledge without him personally involved. I'd say this proves that reading instructions works better than listening to snape. Also problem is that his way of teaching made everyone hate subject and from personal experience I can say when you hate doing something because of teacher motivation to care for results often disappears.
Personally I think Snape is simply a great character in cinema and wouldn’t want to label him villain nor hero. Can you guys please do psychology of a hero: Captain Jack Sparrow? 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
The writing was incredible enough to almost forgive him, but the more I think about it, the more it upsets me that after all these years of tormenting Harry, the only nice thing he could say in his last living moments was still about his mom.
@@Fifi-jb3yx it doesn't make him a bad person, it was just a detail that struck a nerve for myself. I could never deny that it was tragically romantic though.
Something else worth noting: he didn’t say that in the books. There, he only says “look at me,” which implies that he only wants to see Lily’s eyes before he dies. By adding this line, I believe that it serves as evidence that Snape came to care about Harry at some point by acknowledging that Lily is a part of him.
This could be partially true, but it was definitely because he had his mothers green eyes. He was the spitting image of his father aside from the green eyes he got from Lily.
I don’t think so. He wanted to see Lily literally. They eyes do look the same. It’s not like Snape ever had an arc where he really learned to understand Harry the way we do. The only kind thing Snape really saw from Harry was that he did come to him when he was dying. Other things fit his narrative that Harry was like James (who was still a hero but not kind to Snape) Maybe it was end of life revelation to him, but I don’t think so, if it was it should be about something bigger.
Also, the patronis thing is something so important most people usually gloss over. Its pretty much saying Lilly is still, to this day, Snapes only good memory.
I don't know if you've read the books, but forgive me either way. In the books, a person's patronus changing is actually explained to be a reaction to something traumatic or having a very strong emotional feeling towards someone else and having the patronus match them in some way. It doesn't have anything to do about specific memories. For example, Tonks' patronus changes in book six because Lupin, the man she's loves, told her that they couldn't be together because of his condition and it broke her heart. Eventually of course he gives in and they get together, but for almost an entire year, Tonks is physically depressed and her patronus is in the shape of a "big wolf" from Harry's point of view. Sorry again. I like your theory though and I guess at the end of the day them both mean the same thing. Snape fucking adored her.
@@drd444You are absolutely right but I may be wrong but I think they were referring to him being able to conjure the patronus so easily not why it changed to match Lily's. But to create one I believe you have to have a powerful happy memory and Snape seemed to do it with ease.
I love how you classified Snape as both a villain AND a hero. You'd think that he's trying to thwart Harry as early as the first book/movie. But then, you realise that he's actually trying to protect him against Quirell, the REAL threat.
Remember, Snape is the ultimate covert double agent. He can’t give anything away…he HAS to be ruthless and wear the mask to be effective with both sides. The mission is the ultimate goal, regardless of who is sacrificed in the end. Dumbledore was the same, but his surface presentation was more congenial, so he played off in a different way. Think of what it must be to be CIA (or any other government’s ultra-secret operative/assassin). I fully believe Snape had a part of himself that truly was sadistic and spiteful, that he could be just as genuinely hateful and an asshole, but also could be noble and self-sacrificing, and capable of love (the only death eater who could produce a patronus). Both a hero and a villain, because he HAD to be to fulfill his chosen mission as an adult.
@@daniellemusella1594 And Dumbledore points out that killing an old man who was already dying - at his own request no less- is a mercy that may or may not weigh on the killer's soul. Not a reasoning for a teenager like Draco, but probably something a grown man can deal with.
Snape was a half blood child. His mother was from an old magical family, the Princes. A sacred 28 family. His father was an abusive muggle who hated magic. He went to muggle primary school before going to Hogwarts. His mother died when he was just a boy. Lily lived in his neighborhood.
Rickman will always be remembered for his emaculate characterization of Snape. He put his heart in this portrayal and created individual nuances and depth into a character I didn't like one bit in the books but respected in the movies and made him entirely unforgettable.
@@coolmammavaterlaus360 I think he severely underestimated how much he was loved, both by his coworkers and by fans, especially young kids. And he will continue to be loved. In a way, it's a form of immortality. Robbie Coltrane said something like that, during the cast's televised reunion special: "I won't always be here, but Hagrid will". This applies to the entire cast. Pancreatic and breast cancer stole Alan Rickman and Helen McCrory, but Severus Snape and Narcissa Malfoy will always be with us. (5/21/2022)
Honestly, I lost the love of my life at 22 years old. Alan Rickman's portrayal of the pain of finding Lily, ooon pooooint. When I found out my love had passed, I practically fell out of my car and just wept on the driveway, I couldn't even stand up. His pain feels so real in that scene.
I feel you. I was 21 when the love of my life committed suicide. I had a MASSIVE depression that lasted for a year or 2 or 3, I can't remember. I didn't have any psychological help, let alone medication. I just remember being numb and paralysed for most of the time, just sitting behind my laptop till the sun rose, wondering what would happen to my body if I jumped off my balcony or questioning what angle I'd have to stab myself in the chest to pierce my heart or how much force I needed to slit my own throat. I only found some solace in food and my body exploded with stretch marks and such. I begged for the universe to give me cancer so I could decline treatment or to just not wake up whenever I did go to bed, but I was too much of a hollow shell to do anything else. I could barely even cry most of the time. In 2 years time I tried to kill myself 3x, but I never managed, after 15 years (4 of which were after his suicide) I realised I hadn't been wanting to kill myself for quite some time. So from the age of 25, I declared myself free from dark thoughts, turning 30 this summer! I feel sorry for your loss, but I genuinely believe that, if it hasn't already, time can heal. Not cure (because that would mean erasing the problem altogether), but heal to help you process it and continue a life you want.
@@powerpuff_avenger Thank you for sharing that!! I can definitely relate. ❤️ I just turned 33 so it's been about a decade, but I can completely relate to everything you explained having gone through. I also contemplated various ways to end myself, and then once I decided I couldn't, I started purposefully putting myself in danger hoping that life would take me out itself. I even drove for work at the time, and after 6 months of being a danger on the road, I quit. It took me some time to seek therapy, and tried a few different antidepressants before admitting that wasn't the way to go. ❤️ But, lots of time, some therapy, and lots of reflection, and lots of healing, things are definitely not so horrible anymore. Life has moved on, although he's kind of just become a part of me at this point.
I wouldn't call Snape very relatable. Most people don't go from joining dangerous extremists to becoming a double agent, all the while bullying children.
I love that moment when Harry walks in on a dying Snape and instead of projecting hatred or victory, he projects pity. He sees his death as tragic and has a moment of mercy on his “enemy” and tries to halt the bleeding. Then you see the way Snape looks at Harry. In that moment, he sees Lily’s compassion alive in her son. Her ability to see the humanity in those others refuse to see. It’s a glorious marriage of acting, scoring, writing, and filmmaking.
I've always thought this... That in both the films and the books, Severus never truly cared for Harry until the last moments of his life. He knows for a fact that Harry hates him, and yet Harry impulsively rushes forward and does anything he can to try and save Severus... Because it's just who he is. It's who Lily was too, and I think in that final moment, Severus realized he'd never allowed himself to see that.
There’s a detail that even makes him more heroic: in the duel vs McGonagall, you can see how he deliberately deflects her attacks to the Carrows behind him, and before leaving, he takes their wands so they cannot hurt anyone when he leaves
Dumbledore "dont tell me the boy grow on you" Snape shows the elk Dumbledore "lilly? After all this time?" Snape " always" The always isn't to Dumbledores question on lily is about if he cares for harry that's him saying "i care for him as if he wus my own" and he did he died for harry like Harry's mom did
Snape finally seeing the Lily side of Harry is even more heart-breaking because Harry was more like her than James in the first place (kind, compassionate,etc), but Snape just couldn't get past that that was James' son.
@@teddyflowers2798 not even. It was just that Lily didn't want to put herself in the position that a relationship with Sev would have done. James was the lesser of two evils.
@@ChristopherJames1993 not really, it is said that while james was a trashy person lily really didn't care about him, but by his last year in hogwarts james had become a gentle and caring person, while snape being in slytherin began being more racist, that's why he calls lily mudblood, since then lily decided to cut ties with him, snape became more sour, and his love became a toxic obsession, snape joined the deatheaters, shared ideals with them, it is not until he loses lily that he defies voldemort, i see snape as a human character, but people crucify james for being a bully during his teenage years, ignoring his change, he grew out of that, what snape had originally was love, but after their split, it becomes apparent that snapes innocent love turned into toxic obsession
@@ChristopherJames1993 this is a big stretch. Literally everything in the books suggests that as an adult, James was a very caring and loving man, and Lily had an amazing relationship with him. They were very happy (look at literally any memory of another character of them, or the letter Lily sends Sirius). Snape, on the other hand, became a death eater, called her a mudblood, and did unspeakable things to innocent people under Voldemort's name. It's not really even comparable.
@@normanpsycho9627 this is exactly it. HP fans love to immediately forget the part where it's emphasised by multiple characters that James became a very different person after the memories in the pensive
I always thought that Snape hung on to his love for Lily not only because of her kindness but also in penance for his part in her death. I feel that the only way he could go on required him not only to remain a double agent secretly loyal to the Order, and to do it without being recognized for it (hence him telling Dumbledore not to tell anyone his role), but also by remaining faithful to Lily's memory and never allowing himself to love again.
I do feel like you're giving Dumbledore a huuuuge pass. It's more obvious to me in the books, but Dumbledore is horribly manipulative towards Snape. Yes, Dumbledore defends Snape, but it's only to the extent that he can use him. Dumbledore extracts a promise of service from Snape (in return for something Dumbledore doesn't even deliver!) and from there, Snape, together with Harry, is his strongest weapon against Voldemort. He is the only inside man in Voldemort's organisation that Dumbledore has ever had. The relationship between Snape and Dumbledore is appallingly one-sided, with Snape as a giver and Dumbledore as a taker. Dumbledore at one point explains to Harry that he didn't want to get attached to him, and with Harry Dumbledore doesn't succeed - he is too fond of Harry. With Snape he does succeed. There is no sympathy there, at all. Dumbledore and Snape have a working relationship and share an aim, and Dumbledore treats Snape like a means to an end. Snape, meanwhile, seems to genuinely care about Dumbledore (and in the books is forever angling for his approval, which he never gets). I used to adore Dumbledore, but - argh, his treatment of Snape is abominable. I loved what Alan Rickman did with what he was given in the films, but I'll forever be sad about how much Snape's character was reduced in the movies. The books have many flaws, but Snape is one of my favourite characters in all of literature. He is a person who could have turned out quite differently if he had had any kind of support, but he didn't have that: he comes from a disadvantaged background, his father was abusive, his mother wasn't strong enough to protect him, he is very badly bullied at school and neither teachers nor headmaster interfere. All he has is one friend of his own age, who can't be expected to deal with all that social and emotional baggage. He lashes out once in a moment of total humiliation and loses his only friend. For the rest of his life he just gets used, by Voldemort and by Dumbledore, and he never gets to realise his great magical potential. And then he gets killed in the line of duty before he's 40 - and thinking he has sent Lily's son to his death. Out of everyone in the story, he gets the rawest deal of all.
Masterfully put! I read the books and saw the movies last October. I loved Snape in the books, but I love Alan's magnificent portrayal of Snape in the movies the most. That's who people will always remember as the real Snape.
In the books he can be terrifying and sometimes cruel. Hurt people hurt people. He was a loyal and loving heart that was treated like garbage and beaten to the point of almost losing his life many times. His father was a raging drunk who beat and demeaned him and his mother. Then when he went to Hogwarts (which was the place he believed would save him) with his only friend, Lily, he was separated from her by the Sorting Hat. The Marauders were brutal, they were just as cruel as his father. They even developed a map where they could literally find him anywhere in the castle to go torture him some more. Dumbledore made him keep his mouth shut when Sirius actually tried to kill him by leading him to Lupin transforming in the Shrieking Shack. I believe Snape didn’t believe James tried to save him and instead was saving his own skin. I mean he would be punished and definitely be expelled with his mean friends. What would his Mommy and Daddy say to that? I am sure he was probably suicidal many times with no one to talk except Lily. I think he joined the Death Eaters because there was peer pressure in his own house to do it, and he desperately needed to learn skills to protect himself and also have some kind of support. After all the abuse (and serious PTSD) he fell into anger, and vengefulness, and a way to protect himself being in a crowd of thugs that gave him protection. But it wasn’t who he was, he did it for survival and talked himself into believing it was the only way he could protect himself and loose some of his terrible anger. He had experience much more abuse, cruelty and pain than he ever experienced light and love. When He blew it one time out of fear and frustration and called Lily a racist name, it wasn’t good. because he desperately tried to make amends with her, she didn’t have to completely cut him off. He just fell down a hole of darkness when she married James. He probably joined his fellow Death Eaters to cat around prostitutes and Knockturn Alley o find hopeless women who were lonely. I’m sure he got lots of support for that from his DE friends. But after awhile it did nothing for him. I don’t know if he would be as involved as the other DEs in attacks. He was probably a Master potioner for Voldemort instead, but must have had some time in the field with them. When Voldemort killed Lily and James, and almost killed Harry he blamed himself when it was really Peter Pettigrew who betrayed them. Thus started his arc of redemption and his working for Dumbledore. He not only saved Harry many times, but he did Draco, Ron, Hermione, even George Weasley and as many kids and people he could. Since Voldemort was a strong Legilimens, I think he had to be a bit cruel to the kids in order for Voldemort to believe that he was on Voldy’s side. The colder and meaner he was, the mor Voldemort trusted him. Dumbledore knew that too which is why he had Snape do his mercy killing of him. Snape just had to stay alive and play his part until he could get the truth and Harry to know who he really was. Snape even got that done while dying from wounds and snake venom. The only reprieve for him was that he got to see Lily’s eyes in Harry one last time. It was heartbreaking seriously. Snape was seriously emotionally damaged, but he was also unbelievably courageous and magnanimous with his protection. He really had so much to give and was so powerful, and so abused and used, and betrayed. He got his job done, to his credit, and did not die alone, thank goodness. The book is important to read because I think we get more of Harry’s and the student’s POV of Snape. And of course, if the kids saw him as that evil, he would look hideous in their eyes, which Snape used to keep Voldemort believing in him. He was a hero/anti-hero in the books. But in the movies, he was a hero, and a romantic one at that. And Alan Rickman could make you fall in love with any villain if he wanted you too. He invests so much of himself, and his training and technique in very character he does. And on top of that, he can be hysterically funny. When I’m in a funk, or the world feels like it’s falling apart, I watch these movies because hey are filled with my fictional comfort characters. Here is Snape and is great heart and courage ( he should hav been sorted into Ravenclaw or Gryffindor, but don’t tell him I said that); Dumbledore with his wise old sayings and crafty moves and care; Harry who we all adopted in our hearts; Hermione who was the girl most females could relate to and so darn smart; the Whole Weasley family and their get togethers…and more. Each character has a very carefully and fleshed out backstory. But my favorite was Severus Snape, who was made of Merlin, Heathcliff, Mr. Darcy, Hades, a prize winning strategist, healer, and Lancelot, all mixed up into one. And thank you Alan Rickman for all your work. Rest in bliss.
@@melaniejackson-cracchiolo356 OMG what a beautiful and concise analysis of Severus Snape. I agree whole heartily, but I tend to think he stayed a virgin. At least, I have no doubts he would remain celibate the rest of his life, after Lily died. I think he would believe it would be a dishonor to her memory. Besides, he didn't think he deserved anything remotely happy or pleasurable.
I agree 💯%. Dumbledore really used people for his own end, especially Harry and Snape. Like you said, he horribly neglected Snape as a student. He did nothing to protect him or support him when he was bullied and tormented by the Marauders. He did nothing for a traumatized 15 year old, after the werewolf incident. I feel Dumbledore was to blame for most of Snape's problems. Snape could have turned either way, but he possessed just enough love in him to do the right thing, giving himself entirely to his mission. I love and adore Severus and mostly his magnificent portrayal by dear sweet Alan. To me, Alan will ALWAYS be the true and only Snape
i think what sums this point up is this scene Snape (begging him) “hide them all” Dumbledore “and what will you give me in return” we are talking about protecting the only person who can defeat Voldemort. dropping that since it wasn’t certain yet he just told you that Voldemort is targeting one of your most prominent members in the order. you should be paying him his weight in gold for this information not demanding more from him to justify protecting them.
One of my dearest friends was considered the best Snape cosplayer on the east coast, and as I loved both my friend and Snape’s movie persona, it was like a punch in the gut when Alan Rickman died, followed by my friend’s losing his battle with cancer. I will never not cry when I hear Always.
That's so sad, I'm sorry you had to go through it. If you want to inflict more tears... There's a song called 'Always' by Beth Crowley that is about Lily and Snape. It's beautiful,if you we want to check it out. 🤗
One of the songs that plays is Dumbledore's farewell, another is called Lily's Theme. It plays when Snape tells Harry he has his mother's eyes. A very nice detail. Both of those pieces are absolutely beautiful and painful to listen to.
I like the fact that you mentioned the gang aspect. Snape was indoctrinated into a cult. I don’t think that gets enough attention. The reason he was so susceptible was because, like you said, no one loved him. He was bullied and abused at home and at school. Though he loved lily, the betrayal of watching her with his tormentor was just another kick to the guts. I think they show this through flashbacks in the movies as well… they certainly depict it in the books. While I don’t think that excuses what he does - we still send gang members to prison - I think a lot of people who see snape as simply evil don’t have experience with dealing with people in the grey areas of society. To me, it was clear by the end that snape had played that role - deatheater - right to the end, at a great personal cost. Who we see right before he dies shows that he wasn’t that person. And that’s the tragedy of snape to me. He spent his whole adult life playing this role, having no friends or support, no personal life that we know of, and then he dies.
But he didn't love Lily enough to give up the dark arts or his friends when she asked him to. And that was before she got with James on their seventh year.
This was the biggest lesson that HP ever taught me. I was reading the books thinking the worst of Snape after he killed Dumbledore, kind of feeling that Snape couldn’t be trusted by Dumbledore without a reason, and then when we read that Dumbledore enlisted him to help after suffering so much loss and making Snape carry the burden of the entire Order as a double (triple?) agent to protect the entire magical community from the Dark Lord. I remember sobbing into my book, tears on the pages, seeing that so many people believed the worst in him and didn’t see what he was doing. How much hurt he was carrying by himself with no one to help him. It taught me that hard lesson. You don’t know what burden someone is carrying, or what someone who is completely terrible like that has done for others. There are people out there that are outsiders or hated by others that just need someone to be on their side and save them from the worst of society’s derision. They need someone to trust and love them. That’s why I’ll always be on Snape’s side.
Broadly speaking, I don't think the HP books are particularly well-written, but the chapter The Prince's Tale has the distinction of being one of only two times a book has managed to move me to tears. (The other time was A Tale of Two Cities, which suggests that personal resonance with the subject matter had a lot to do with it, but even so.)
Well they’re not very well written if you’re not in the age group the books are specified for, but I do agree with you. I read an entire series for that small bit of emotional pay off. I believe it is what I said after I read that chapter. In my own opinion, I’d say that JK definitely wrote those books for the culmination of Snape’s story, Harry himself having very little to do with the end results of my liking the books. We collectively read an entire book series just to read Wuthering Heights fanfiction.
”My word, Severus, that I shall never reveal the best of you?” I still find that line heartbreaking, because even if Snape was deeply flawed and acted on those flaws he also agreed to live a lie about himself, knowing the truth might never come out. The scene in the last book where Harry finally tells everyone in the great hall the truth about Snape is melodramatic but also cathartic, I would have loved to have seen it in the last movie.
As Sirius So wonderfully explains it. “The world isn’t split into good people and Death Eaters. We all have light and dark with in us.” Snape, in my opinion is one of the best written characters in the books and movies. The movies definitely portray him as more sympathetic then the books for sure. But the whole debate of is he a villain or a hero is kind of moot. He is very much both at different times throughout the story. I loved this deep dive into Snape though. I’ve watched and read Harry Potter so much that I thought the sad stuff didn’t bother me much any more. But you got me to tear up with you a bit. Lol
Ah Snuffles.. he's so right. Snape is a hero imo. He's an ass - but he does do whatever it takes to bring the true BBEG down. His motives may not have been purest, but he was never evil himself. He was broken and took refuge with the broken. He still chose to forsake what he'd surrounded himself with in order to do what was right, in the end. Snape wasn't good - he was 1000% pure grade A ASS. But he wasn't evil either - and he was crucial for Harry to take down Voldy. So.. hero. In both books and movies lol. Even Harry agrees that learning Snapes story was what made the difference of being forced to fight a battle he couldn't avoid, and walking head held high into a fight he was prepared to give his all to. It made all the difference in the world
The problem with Sirius saying that is that that's exactly what Rowling split the Harry Potter universe into. All the villains either are Death Eaters or have similar beliefs to them.
Exactly, after having read all the books like 10 times and throughout various times in my live, my firm opinion is that Snape was undeniably a hero but that he also was a horrible person!
@@Xehanort10 but not really. If you think about it, how much damage did Fudge do just by refusing to act, merely because he was so afraid Dumbledore would take his place as Minister? Wouldn't he qualify as villain? And what Sirius says aplies to a lot of characters. There was Crouch Sr, who was straight laced and self-righteous as fuck, but equaly abusive and protective of his son. There was Sirius himself, who was smart and brave but also reckless, immature and living vicariously through Harry, which put them all in danger (edit: he was also quite the bully as a kid, obviously). There was Seamus and Zachary Smith, who were assholes (at times, in Seamus case) but not evil. Even Draco, who was a little shit but didn't really want to kill anyone, even when Voldemort was threatening his parents.
its a shame Snape never let his guard down with Harry, he might have had a chance to experience what everyone else said about Harry, that he had the same gift of compassion Lilly had
I think he always saw it, therefore experienced it from far. Snape was always observing Harry, and for sure could see how he interacted with others, which is why he definitely couldn’t leave his guard down, he needed to protect him from Voldemort since he had the ability to see into people’s minds…
I know what it's like to build walls around your self, to protect your self. And your Emotions . I was always "the strong one"so to speak, for everyone else who was grieving but behind my smile or sometimes cold emotionless look. If any one ever payed attention to my eyes. They would have seen the hidden pain there. Snape is the same way, though a fictional character, he is the perfect embodiment of people like me in real life not just stage films and books. People like snape really do exist in real life. Not just in stories. Any one who has suffered depression and other mental illness, that messes with you Emotions , know what I mean. (And I'm not taking about magic)
Not many people are pure evil and whether someone is a hero or a villain to me is simply a question of which has the majority, since normally people are a mix of both good and evil. The closest to pure evil in the HP universe is Umbridge.
Umbridge is probably also the most realistic evil. She is the type of evil that people may see in real life. Doing thing "by the book" without sympathy or compassion. And go beyond because the people they are dealing with are some kind of other. Other being enough for a person or people to justify not treating them as fellow human beings. To Umbridge, Harry is a liar, and a symbol if allowed to grow could threaten her or who she supports' power base. To her it is political, and he and Dumbledore are ideological opponents. She was trying to isolate Dumbledore from his supporters. Harry was just a means to an end, and the end justifies the means.
Honestly, as someone speaking with little to no first hand experience of the HP series, but has grown attached via the people around me who have been attached to it, and seeing scenes and learning about the lore and characters, I would say the matter of is Snape a hero comes down to if you believe a hero is someone who strictly, or mostly does good, because there are many definitions as to what classifies a hero, honestly I feel like Snape shares a resemblance to mythological heroes, who are rarely categorically good people, but are often hailed as heroes because they achieve something great or did one or more "good" things over the course of typically very human, imperfect, and sometimes spiteful lives. TLDR: Do I think he's a hero in the terms of how we'd describe a benevolent savior from comics? Heck no. Could he qualify to be called a hero by the metric of a heroic standard where being "good/nice" isn't a requirement? Absolutely.
And that's honestly why I like as a character. Literature has too many black and white backdrops. . .whereas Snape is very much in the moral gray zone. He does not like Harry, he was never going to like Harry. . . but he did what needed to be done anyway. It doesn't excuse his actions towards Harry at all. . . but the fact of the matter is. . .Harry wouldn't have prevailed without Snape. . and Snape (even in the books) could have done far worse. A morally 'white' hero, while enjoyable. . is fairly predictable and boring. A gray one? you get to explore moral choice and play a lot of mental 'what if' games.
@@hallaloth3112 that's exactly what i think, i think snape is rowlings greatest literary achievement, he's a fantastic, layered, controversial character and just so compelling. it's the same reason i loved boromir, or game of thrones as a whole, where every character was grey.
I see snape as tragic villain. I never agreed with the toxic obsession angle- he found love and sat with it. He didn’t try to force lily or undermine her relationship. I think we are told everyone is deserving and capable of love- and we are but that looks different for so many. As an abuse survivor I’ve worked years to love myself and feel safe in my environment, but still struggle with accepting love and friendship as those things are volatile- they depend on another person. I really do believe that some people are broken by their experiences and sometimes all someone can do is find a way to be safe. Shape was safe in his love for lily, and he didn’t find love away from her. That’s tragic, but for him it’s what he could handle.
Reading your take on Snape's love for Lily really hit home to me. He is indeed human and I definitely have felt the need to be "safe" in a certain someone's love. Because it's familiar and in a way... it gives me security. Although I became a little too dependent on *that* love (working on it now).
Something that always irks me is that Lily and James look about mid 30s when they died, when in the book they had Harry pretty much in their very early 20s, maybe 21. Making them younger would have underlined the tragedy of their deaths since they were so young. Just like Sirius was the same age when he was sentenced to Azkaban
I mean, Snape was also their same age when they died, but the casting of Alan Rickman was too perfect that the age of the actor didn't matter. But yes, if they were maybe CG'd a bit younger it would have helped.
i think they aged them so the film would be relatable to the primary younger audience, since the age of the actors would reflect the real life parents of the kids watching. and then later it became an issue of retaining the same actors in memories
Yes, may be. But they also cast a young Lilly with brown eyes. So I am not sure if they care enough for those details in the book to make it through the films.
i would hardly call him an anti hero. that gives him way too much credit. if anyone other than rickman played him, no one remotely would adore the character.
Never forget that, in the books, Snape was the one to listen in on the prophesy and relay it to Voldemort. Knowingly selling out a literally baby to be slaughtered without a care in the world. And only actually caring once he found out it was Lily's child. Even then he didnt care about the baby, he asked dumbledore to save her then Dumbledore told him that he disgusts him and only then did Snape say "hide them all then"
Well yeah, Harry was the fruit of the love between Lily and James, it’s really human of Snape to think that way for a moment. Although he said whatever he said, his actions pointed to another direction which makes him really interesting.
@@lueiza2010 I have had some people in my life that I have really, really despised. At no point would I EVER consider leaving an 18 month old baby to be murdered because they were one of those people's child. That reaction does not make make Snape "really human".
And the other part of the reason is in Spinner's End with him at the beginning of Half-Blood Prince. Amazing how Alan Rickman could pull off cold contempt masked as idle indifference with a paper flip, three words, some hesitation, and a flick of the wand. *"Run along, Wormtail"* (because you deliberately betrayed the only person I ever loved, you coward)
Part of his hate for Harry is projection about that very thing. Sure he sees James, but how can he rightfully get close to the child of the woman he loved, who he got killed. So he pushes Harry away, because he hates himself for killing Lilly and he cant let himself get close because he killed his mom by accident. So he projects his own self hate along with his hate for James onto him.
Snape begging Dumbledore to save Lily, to hide all of them from imminent death, and Dumbledore asking "What will you give me in exchange?" Dumbledore could cruel and manipulative too.
Yup! Exactly seems people miss that point. Snape is begging Dumbledore. Snape is also confronted later on by Dumbledore when Snape is upset that Harry has been led to be the sacrifice the whole time and Dumbledore questions him about still holding a flame for Lilly at which point he releases her Patronus. You can see the pain that Snape is carrying with his burden in his eyes as he looks at Harry during the death scene. This is when Harry's perspective of Snape is shaken. At the pensive Harry sees for the first time how his hero was not always for him, that Snape covered for Dumbledore multiple times, and even though he protested what Dumbledore wanted he acted out the way he was requested to. The character arch is brilliant because the viewer thinks they know Snape and that he is just a power-hungry villain. Turns out he's extremely powerful but going through personal agony that he has to keep quiet. While playing his part. Dumbledore renders him impotent to being the full Snape he could be by not allowing him to fully protect Harry as he wants to.
I don't remember Dumbledore saying that in the books. I could be wrong but I think that line was added in the film to save time. I remember Dumbledore in the book being disgusted at Snape for begging and groveling to save Lily, but not caring about saving anyone else. I remember him asking him to protect Harry because it was the right thing to do, and that he would offer Snape protection for doing so, but I don't remember Dumbledore making it about "what will you give ME in return"...
Dumbledore is speaking Snape's language. A manipulation if you like, but also communicating with Snape in a way he could understand, and finding out how far this fracture goes. If you're trying to stop a group of power hungry murderers, and there's a chance to not only turn one of them from that path, but use them to stop other deaths, you take it. Now Dumbledore using Snape's love of Lily to protect Harry, to keep him alive for the right killing, that's what I call manipulation. As Harry reflects, Dumbledore knew he would do it, because he had taken the time to know Harry & loved him, even as he steered him to this fate. Darn these were good books, so many layers
@@randomsoprano85 He did say the exchange line in the books, but I don't fault Dumbledore for it. They were at war and here was an opportunity to gain a valuable spy, so of course Dumbledore demanded that in exchange. He definitely would have protected them regardless, but he would have been a fool not to attempt to gain a double agent in the process
@Lynn Sud Yeah I totally agree, Dumbledore is no saint, he’s manipulative as hell and sometimes his tactics seem cold, but he’s doing it for good reasons
I do remember that before Rickman took the role as Snape, he had requested J.K. about all of the information of why Snape was the way he was. At first she pushed back but in the end told him under the condition that he doesn't divulge the information. And when the book finally came out where we learned that Snape had been in love with Lily after all those years, Rickman stated that he was aware of it from the beginning of the movies.
That's not true at all, after he said yes to the role and after they started filming the movies he talked to jkr and said that he didn't really know how to play the role because he didn't know were it was going. Jkr told alan a secret, that he chose not to reveal (until his dairy came out), she never imposition that to him.
Something that just struck me is the editing for the memories. When Snape says the first time, "When the time comes, the boy must die?" It then cuts to him finding Lily dead. To me, that's an intentional stream of consciousness from Snape. When he finds out Harry has to die, he thinks of that amount of loss, he doesn't think of getting back at Voldemort or anything else. It makes his criticism of raising Harry "like a pig for slaughter" that much more cohesive. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go sob in my corner.
Growing up, I had a childhood best friend. She and I were "soulmates" from the day we sat next to each other on the bus. My darling best friend was murdered at 20 years old. The 20th anniversary of the day her body was found was April 19th of this year. All day, I was stuck in flashbacks of getting the call and hearing my own voice scream crying, wailing. The pain that only those who have loved deeply and lost, know. The editing for the film captured beautifully that feeling. A lifetime of memories, years of love and pain, and knowing that love will never die, never lessen.
@@kilderok Kilderok, I am so sorry. I know that feeling all too well. Remember, your best friend would also have said the same for you. She would want you to live for the both of you. Whether you go somewhere new or to the places you used to go together, think of her. Imagine her cheering you on, telling you how proud she is of you.
I’m sorry you had to go through that 💔 I reacted that same way when I got the call about my dad. That scene hits so much harder now, and it was painfully raw to begin with. It’s a wonderfully crafted scene.
I enjoyed this episode so much! When Jonathan started explaining how an unhealthy obsession is when you try to sabotage a relationship or force someone (in this case, Lily) to make a choice, I was instantly reminded of James behavior. In Chapter 28: Snape's Worst Memory (HP and the Order of The Phoenix) he bullies Snape and uses him to force Lily to go out with him (Quote: "Go on... go out with me and I'll never lay a wand on old Snivelly again" page 597, line 24-25). I think it's a very interesting contrast considering that many people (Snape-haters especially) say that Snape had an unhealthy obsession with Lily, yet never seem to see a problem with James' behavior. If you ask me, I would say that it's James who seems to be more obsessed with Lily. When Severus lashes out at Lily and calls her a slur due to the pressure and humiliation of being turned upside down for everyone to see his underwear, he then goes to apologize to her later. And when Lily says she doesn't want to be friends with him anymore (which is fair), he backs off and never bothers her again. Which AGAIN, is a very interesting contrast to James, who doesn't leave Lily alone despite how she multiple times rejects him. I just think it's funny how no one talks about James' toxic behavior, yet have no problem bashing Snape. Just to be clear, I am not excusing any of Snape's other behaviors/problems (just as I'm not excusing James for what he has done). Neither of them are saints, and I guess that's what makes them both such interesting characters. Also, as a person interested in psychology, I am so curious about James and how he got from being a bully to becoming a decent person (if you trust what his friends say - we do not know if they're biased and/or painting James in a better light). Snape is also so interesting to analyze and he's definitely one of my favorite characters of all time!
I thought the same, it's also interesting that in the whole debate between Snape or James nobody says anything about Lily dating the bully who tortured his friend all his childhood, I always found that sick even if they justify it with the fact that James " matured as a person"
The way James is written in that scene, although I understand what she who must not be named was trying to do by gaining sympathy for Snape, just doesn't make any sense at all given what literally everyone else has said about James. He is a stalker and sexually assaults Snape and it isn't at all like Draco and Harry's rivalry its just James and Sirius bullying snape. And WHY would Lily ever go out with James? it doesn't make any sense and what Lupin and Sirius have to say about it makes no sense either. James became an animagus illegally for his friend, took in Sirius who was being abused, saved Snape from Werewolf!Lupin. These actions so not align at all with what we see in the memory. James being arrogant makes some sense as a character flaw but in that memory he is just plain nasty and not at all someone I can see Lily being friends with let alone marrying! I don't care if he was 14/15. No one changes that much especially when some of the actions I've mentioned before took place around then/ before that. It makes no sense to me and ruins the continuity for me entirely considering he died when he was just 21. Also I have sympathy for film Snape but I will never forgive him for how he treats Neville in the books.
I think though in the books and movies you are watching it through Snape's perspective so that memory is also biased in a way FOR Snape. We also know he uses dark magic on other people because Lily says so in one of his OWN memories. She even says it's not just that he lashed out at her in a moment of humiliation, it's that he bullies/hates other people like her and just makes an exception for her - so she does not appreciate his behavior as a whole. I personally think that, reading between the lines of the memory from Snape's perspective here AND in the seventh book, he WAS a bully to other people even when he was a kid - he just picks on people he thinks are weaker than him and James isn't that sort of victim. James is awful yes, and as someone who was heavily bullied I hate bullies so I wouldn't give James a free pass, but James doesn't seem evil in a way that is equivalent to Snape and his classmates and their foray into dark magic and bigotry. And honestly since we're looking at James through Snape's perspective at this point I would use the idea that "if you trust what is friends say..." to say Snape could have been heavily bullying the marauders as well - but that's certainly not going to show up if Snape think of himself as a victim in his memories. I don't trust Snape because of the behavior he shows and the behavior his friends have called him out for even in his own memories. James' friends admit their bad traits which shows at least a little more self-awareness than Snape so I do believe their assertions that James wasn't as bad and that he was a decent person. Also while the marauders escalate things for sure, Snape has initiated fights on his own without them bothering him. I can quote the specific passages below if you're interested in looking at them. I think this debate is one of the most interesting facets of the HP series and I love hearing people passionately dissect things the way we all are here.
@@mc720 How in the heck would teen Snape, who was always alone and had no support from other kids, have ever managed to bully the Marauders, who were a whole group, also knew magic, and most of them physically stronger than Severus Snape?? No. Yes, Snape's memories are subjective, but that doesnt make them false. Sirius Black's and Remus Lupin's memories of James are likewise subjective and skewed by the fact they idolized James.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog Ummm it's literally written in the books it's not my opinion so it's not really a yes or no question. He uses sectumsempra and dark magic and the marauder's weren't together all the time - it specifically says he cursed James, not everyone. Also Snape was friends with other slytherins (Mulicber, Lucius, etc.) and Lily says they gang up on people together so it's not impossible. Also Sirius and Remus clearly didn't idolize James because they call him arrogant, a jerk, annoying, and etc. throughout the books which is far more realistic and grey than the black and white views a lot of other people (including Harry mind you) seem to have.
12:55, there is some evidence from the books to justify that. In Book 5, Harry breaks into Snape’s memory and sees Snape as a child crying with his mother across the room cowering while being berated by Snape’s father.
That could be why he hates mudbloods so much, it’s a self loathing since he is one himself. Kind of like when homophobes end up being gay but terrified of it. It’s still wrong and he could have surrounded himself with better people but it is a bit more understandable.
I wish that you hadn’t ghosted over his childhood and the home life that he experienced. Snape is such a complex and intriguing character that people love to debate, but his story, while fictional, holds true for so many people who grew up to be like Snape. The trauma done to his brain in his early years, experiencing the violence in his home from a father who, at minimum verbally abused his mother and child often, and at most was so terrifying that he kept a capable and otherwise respected witch from using her magic to keep her and her child safe - that trauma changes the brain. It’s so much more than just Lily being the only person to show him kindness, or his only friend until Dumbledore - I would honestly argue that Dumbledore was never his friend, Dumbledore used and manipulated him as he did everyone. Snape endured a toxic, unhealthy, abusive home life, then came to school and endured further bullying and harassment, to the point that he was nearly murdered by a fellow student, and in response was told to keep quiet about it while his bullies received no real consequences - Sirius, at minimum, should have been expelled. Cut to Lily’s death, when he had nothing to live for but penance and revenge, forced by Dumbledore to teach in a school that he likely never wanted to step foot in again (nor honestly teach at all)? Yes, he bullies children. Ignoring the simplest of facts that bullied people become bullies, he spent the majority of his adult life in grief, rage, and despondence. He wanted the DADA position each year *because* it was cursed and it would mean he would have to leave the school. Yeah, he wasn’t nice. He was a dick. But if anyone had a reason to be, it’s him. Snape needed therapy. His parents needed therapy. Sooooo many people in the books (and movies) needed therapy. I appreciate that you addressed the fact that his love for Lily was not obsessive or unhealthy. Lily loving someone else doesn’t negate his feelings, and - as you said - he never tried to interfere in their lives or marriage. The only thing he tried to do was keep her alive - that holds true for the books and the movies. He’s a hero in both, in my opinion. Not friendly, not kind, but neither of those are required to be a hero.
Well said. For me he was a hero. I connected the dots after re-reading The Half-blood Prince for couple times, that Snape is lying to Narcisa and Bellatrix in the first chapter. He mentioned to them, that Dumbledore had injured his hand in the fuel with Voldemort. But towards the end of the book 6 we find out, Snape knew that it was a curse, that injured Dumbledore, as he was curing it straight after. I realized he wasn't Voldemort's man.
One generally unnoticed aspect of Snape is that when he casts Avada Kedavra it’s a bright blue instead of the green that it usually is. That probably means that his heart wasn’t in it and that the curse failed because as Bellatrix said “you have to mean it,” Snape couldn’t bring himself to mean it, and Dumbledore knew that.
I think what it is about Alan Rickman, is he has an amazing ability to express what needs to be said with his micro-expressions. He knows whatever his character is supposed to be thinking and feeling and it really comes through in his fleeting micros, and his dramatic well timed dramatic pauses.
Here's my thoughts on the baby Harry and Snape crying over Lily scene.... obviously, it's super sad, but what's saddest to me is not just the fact that they both lost her, but that neither one of them will be comforted. Baby Harry, because nobody's holding him and making him feel safe, and Snape because he refuses to share his grief with Harry.
Thank you for pointing that out. I've seen some people say that he should've held Harry instead of Lily, but I think this not only makes for a more powerful image, but a tragic idea as well.
Yeah, I saw that too, but then, what if had done that? Maybe his love was so big that he knew he was going to love Harry too, therefore make him weak to face Voldemort? How’s the scene played out in the book? Don’t remember…
No one understood Severus more than Alan Rickman and he talked about the character and his thoughts in an interview and that made me straight up sobbed, I reread all the books keeping Alan Rickman's image in my head and I'm telling you this, it was a experience, I recommend potterheads to do it because you'll find so many layers and perspective doing this and you'll not regret doing it
As much as the entire memory sequence in Deathly Hallows Part II makes me cry, I always cry hardest when Lily speaks to Harry in his crib. Those moments between mothers and their children are always the ones to make me the saddest, I think because I’ve always been a mama’s girl and I’ve always had a great love for children. Another example: In Downton Abbey, it was Cora’s reaction to Sybil’s death that hit me the hardest, not Tom’s.
@@michaelodonnell824 Why say that on this point, when they already said they are heavily affected by those sad scenes between mother and child? You're not even on the same topic.
Same. I wasn't happy about how they implemented the memory sequence (I'm just too much of a book nerd :P) But when Lily was like: "Harry, Mama loves you. Dada loves you." I actually cried.
I remember the moment I heard Alan Rickman had died. I was at school. I just sat there and sobbed in public. There was just something irreplaceable about him. He was incredible in everything he did. I love him as Captain Brandon in Sense and Sensibility. He was not the way the character was described but I think Jane Austen herself couldn't have picked a better actor for the role.
I would love to see you guys look at Dumbledore. I totally forgot about that part, when Snape asks him to protect the Potters, and he asks "What will you do for me in return?" That's awful. And I would love ya'lls take on it
Well, Dumbledore gave him a chance to change that horrid DeathEater-task-filled life and put it to good use. He never made Snape lick the floor or dance in his underwear (at least, not outside fanfictions) so being a teacher and protecting Harry is not an awful task. Snape had a miserable, empty life with no purpose and he was ready to take his own life sooner or later, when Lily died. Dumbledore asked him a favour, that's not a weird thing.
Snape even called Lily, Lily Potter in the books in the flashbacks, it was definitely not an unhealthy obsession, she was just the first person in his life to show him affection and he loved her for that
@@oooh19 Yeah, he WAS a bully. People can change yk. It's canon that he changed. And technically it's not weird because Snape himself was bully, not only as an adult but even in childhood. It's written that he hung out with Mulciber and Avery who bullied kids using dark magic and Snape defended them saying it was no big deal and just for fun. It's also written that he went around calling all muggleborn who weren't Lily mudbloods.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 yeah, she did. This is an excerpt from Deathly Hallows chapter 33 “…thought we were supposed to be friends,” Snape was saying. “Best friends?” “We are Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging out with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him Sev, he’s creepy! Do you know what he tried to do to Mary MacDonald the other day?” Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face. “That was nothing,” said Snape. “It was a laugh, that’s all…” “It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny…” […] "...I never meant to call you Mudblood, it just…" "Slipped out?" There was no pity in Lily's voice. "It's too late. I've made excuses for you for years. None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you. You and your precious little Death Eater friends-you see, you don't even deny it! You don't even deny that's what you're all aiming to be! You can't wait to join You-Know-Who, can you?" He opened his mouth, but closed it without speaking. "I can't pretend anymore. You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine." "No-listen, I didn't mean…" "…to call me Mudblood? But you call EVERYONE of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?"
@@anyabajaj07 This sounds like Lily having a go at Snape, not stopping Harry's father from abusing him. I'm not familiar with Harry Potter, am I wrong?
Snape is one of the most interesting characters ever written. He's an absolute jerk, abusive, vindictive and unforgiving, but he's a hero in that he sacrificed so much and put himself in danger for the benefit of others. He's not evil, he's just mean. I can't think of many other heros that are jerks without the secret "heart of gold" troupe to redeem them.
“He’s not evil, he’s just mean.” - what a perfect way to put it! He’s an abusive jerk and a hero at the same time. It doesn’t really have to be an either/or…
I ALWAYS cry with Snape's death. Alan made an amazing job in that one (in all of them but that one just breaks my heart all the time). I miss him so much
I've never read the books. My entire experience has been through the lens of the movies. That's likely why I feel so much for Snape's arc, and his confession to Harry later in the series. "Always" will forever choke me up. Here's why: I come from an abusive home, fell in love with a gorgeous redhead in my 20s, and finally earned her love in return in my 30s. We've been married now for 22 years. She is now and forever, my "Lily". Despite struggling when helping her raise her son (from a previous marriage) from behavioural issues, he and I have finally grown to respect each other. RIP, Mr. Rickman. You are missed. Always.
would love to see a hp ep where you take a look at the sorting hat and how sorting the students based on their personalities could affect their development, and how the rivalries could do the same
I was heartbroken when Snape died in the movies, but in the books it seemed that death was something he'd wanted himself, so I couldn't be too sad about it. I did have empathy for Snape, since he was bullied by Slytherins for being a half-blood, and then again by the other houses for being a Slytherin. He came from an abusive home (its canon in the books), and his clothes and appearence reflected that of a child who'd experienced neglect. So of course, he was a little possessive over the one person who never treated him any less; Lily. I abolsutely DEPLORED the Marauders, and honestly, I can't bring myself to like them at all. They were bullies - plain and simple. They sexually shamed an already abused child, and made it out as though his 'sleazy' self justified the bullying. They get up on their high-horse about using the term 'mudblood', but treated Lily as a commodity to be 'won'. Ironically, in the books there is a scene where Death-eaters bully several muggles by turning them upside down in the air, like what James did to Severus (except he also took off Snape's pants to humiliate him further). At that moment, Harry finds the Death-eaters disgusting, and yet, he forgets about it so easily when he sees it being done to Snape. In the end, Snape makes Harry look him in the eyes, so he could at least convince himself in his last moments of his horrible life, that the one person who cared about him whole-heartedly, was still there beside him. While it doesn't excuse his own abusive behaviour, I really can't bring myself to hate him. OOPS - wrote an essay.
He doesn't "forget about it so easily when he sees it being done to Snape" -- at least not in the book. He's actually extremely upset about seeing his father as a bully, and doesn't calm down for *days*. He takes a huge risk to contact Sirius and Remu to interrogate them about this, and it takes some doing for them to get him to calm down. When the scene emerges again in the Prince's Tale, Harry keeps his distance, not wishing to view the bullying again. I genuinely don't recall how it's played out in the Order of the Phoenix movie.
@@ugolomb that is true - I did hate tho how Remus and Sirius tried to brush it off in the books; in the movies, I don't think Harry interrogates them however. He just seems really uncomfortable abt it
@@O-Demi exactly - a human with a human response to trauma. Snape could've at least had a peaceful time at Hogwarts even if his home life was crap, but the Marauders didn't allow for that. It must've been hard for Snape to see the face of the man who made his life at school hell, with the eyes of the woman who was his only sanctuary.
I think Snape is neither hero or villain, he's simply human. Complex, morally grey, and prejudiced. Just a masterfully written character who, in the very end, chose to see the good in the world by seeing Lily in Harry.
This. He is probably the best written character in the series. At least in terms of what a 'real' person feels like. Few people are wholly good or wholly bad. We all have character flaws. Most of us I am sure have said hurtful things in our lives. Maybe we're not the bully at school, but how do we treat our siblings? Maybe we love our children but how do we treat our co-workers? Snape's redemption does not excuse his actions. He did however sacrifice himself in the end for the greater good. I would personally say he falls a little more on the hero side than the villain mainly because Dumbledore would have been screwed if Snape sold him out. . .
He's also a real example of what years of trauma does to a person with no help. Sometimes it leads people to make bad decisions and sometimes it leads people to make good decisions. And that's Snape.
When it came to Dumbledore’s death scene, I also thought the book version was him begging for Snape to not do it, at least until the last book was released. I’m glad that the movie went the route of “if you read all of the books, you can pick up his TRUE meaning behind the ‘please’.” It made the scene’s meaning transform when you rewatch the series.
I think it's rather beautiful what Jono said about how he hated and was mean to Harry for the whole time he was alive because he looked like James and then when he was finally going to be at peace and he didn't have to be used anymore by anyone, he finally realizes that Lily was always there too. Especially when Harry tries to help him as he's dying, even though Snape has been a jerk up until that point, Harry sees beyond (thanks to the HBP book and even the accidental look into Snape's mind about his dad's bullying) and tries to do something.
I believe that Snape is actually suffering incredibly high levels of stress, simply knowing that he can never reveal himself to Harry, the son of his lost love. Could this maybe compound the appearance of hatred - love and hate are closely related, after all; passion (isn't it said that you have to have loved someone to hate them?). I truly love the way Rickman portrayed the multifaceted character of Snape - truly exquisite, the best actor for the best role. Guys, this has probably been your best review so far.
@@Jellybeansatdusk - True, but perhaps abuse begets abuse. Maybe he simply can't help himself in that respect. I find it difficult to not rise to certain baits; something from my childhood. Let's face it, Snape is a complex character, we couldn't really have it any other way for the story. Such complexity simply adds to the narrative.
@@pw.70 yeah there is definitely a cycle of abuse and learned behaviors, but that isn’t an excuse. He still has free will, he has the ability to grow and change and be better than the people who have hurt them. It’s tempting to do the easy thing, take your anger out on someone who is helpless or reminds you of past hurt, but that doesn’t mean your actions are justified. You can understand why someone does what they do while still holding them accountable for their actions. I find this is the case with Snape. I see how his past has influenced the person he has become, but I also see all the other paths he had and did not take, the choices he made for himself and their logical consequences. He did the right thing in the end, maybe for the wrong reasons, and that is admirable to me because it shows that it’s never too late to turn your life around. Still, having one heroic moment at the end (or many unseen good deeds, as is the case with Snape) doesn’t reverse the damage from the ways you’ve harmed others.
@@Jellybeansatdusk - I agree. Sadly, it does sometimes depend on the hurt suffered, and even the strength of character as to how soon or even *if* you can overcome such abuse. 'Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man.'...
@@Jellybeansatdusk He was a double agent for two of the most powerful wizards. He told Dumbledore no one can know. Dumbledore responds not reveal the best of you Severus? He had to be cold, aloof, harsh and even mean at times to keep everyone from getting close to him. Any one close to Snape would be in danger, that had to be avoided at all costs. He couldn't even save Charity Burbage at Malfoy Manor when she was tortured and killed right in front of him, and she was more a colleague than a close friend, but even so, how horrible that must have been for him to not be able to do anything for her, without revealing his true self? That's one of the hardest things in life...to not be able to be your real and true self. Snape had to do that every single day.
The one thing that keeps Snape's issue from devolving into obsession is the fact that he NEVER ONCE tried to split up James and Lily, he allowed them to go about their lives without fucking things up for them. granted having a constant voyeuristic aspect to it is really creepy and it's actually painful to think about how he NEVER moved on....we see the shit like Fatal Attraction and Sleeping with the Enemy where the dumped lover actually tries to destroy your life just because you didn't pick them, and the fact that Snape had the resources to do so as a double agent who could have gone rogue made that a VERY dark possibility that he never once thought about taking advantage of. His behavior is still toxic, don't get me wrong. I mean hell, he was a complete asshole to Harry his entire life because he had unresolved issues with James that he never got to confront, but he takes it out on this kid who is literally sucked into an apocalyptic war that he never signed up for. He was protecting the embodiment and the offspring of the guy who relentlessly bullied him in school, and he exploited every moment he could to make sure Harry knew he's being treated this way because his dad was an asshole. He had unresolved issues that boiled over and he never got a chance to resolve them. I also think he did this because he didn't want to get too attached to Harry because in the end of all of this, it was a VERY real possibility that everyone fighting Voldemort could end up dead. In Snape's Case, that was true, which is why he made sure that in his dying moments, Harry had the resources to learn the truth, and got one last look at his "mother's eyes". In conclusion, he could have gone the way of a rejected stalker with magic and a cult of murderers at his back, but he didn't. Does that make him a hero? No, but it definitely makes sure that he cannot be called a monster. Just because someone has toxic traits, doesn't make them a bad person. Just means they need help and accountability. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Indeed. Severus Snape, in the films at the very least, was a good person who happened into a terrible life, had clear emotional issues without any way to get help with them, and ended up being groomed into a murderous cult. In spite of that, he carried hsi first love in his heart for the entirety of his life, never betraying her or her memory. He definitely mistreated Harry for being James's son, but also surely protected him and grew to care for him, as he knew deep down that he was very much like his mother, the only love Snape ever knew. Snape is a tragic character. Certainly not a pure villain or hero, but likely could be considered an anti-hero. He did terrible things, many times, but did evil for the greater good, in the end. Many heroes fall into inaction so as to not do evil deeds, since they don't generally see the ends as justification for the means. Anti-heroes like Snape certainly will consider the means being worth it for the ends. It's really painful knowing that he basically only seemed to care for 3 people, and 2 of him died directly because of him. Lily died because of him, and he had to kill the only friend he'd ever had afterward in order to protect Draco. At the very least, he got the chance to sorta redeem himself to Harry a bit in his dying moments. Alan Rickman is also a large part of why the character, at least in the movies, is so good. He absolutely *nailed* every delivery of lines and every single expression in acute detail. RIP Severus Snape, and RIP Alan Rickman. You and your character will be remembered forever.
Here's the thing though, we DON'T know that Snape didn't try to break Lily and James up. We see a collection of his memories that were selected to tell Harry Snape's story how he sees it. Lily and James got together while they were still teenagers and Snape skips from his apology about the mudblood thing to being an adult begging for Lily's life. Anything could have happened in Hogwarts including multiple scenes where he tried to split Lily and James and further the wedge in their already broken friendship. Sirius and Remus admit that James still cursed Snape after he got with Lily, it's very likely Snape tried something, got cursed for it, and then Snape ran with it to try and split them up.
Personally, the one thing that can't redeem him is his treatment of Neville in both the books and the movies. That a student's worst fear is a teacher is simply terrible
In Book 5, when Harry takes the Potions examination and is invigilated by people who aren’t Snape he’s surprised to find he does a good job because he doesn’t have Snape breathing down his neck waiting for him to fail
I wonder if part of why he mistreated Neville so much was because he could've been chosen instead. So he hated that reminder that Lily could've been saved if Voldemort had went with Neville instead of Harry.
I appreciate you separating book!Snape from movie!Snape as well as noting that Snape likely fell in with the Death Eaters for ironically the same reason he fell for Lily. While I hate making excuses for someone's bad behavior, I always feel the need to point out that student!Snape was an extremely vulnerable kid that was sorted into what was essentially a breeding ground for dark wizards even back then. - Also, on your point about how Snape wasn't obsessed with Lily since he never tried to possess her or sabotage her relationship with James, I think that's doubly true when you consider how much of a stab in the heart it had to have been for him to see her with the guy that tormented him in school.
That's part of why the Sorting kind of fascinates me. I was big into HP as a kid but never really considered myself a fan into adulthood. I revisited the books fairly recently (which was interesting in its own way because right in the middle of it some...stuff with the author happened. I'll leave it at that) and I found I had a lot of problems with the series. And a big one was that there's this sort of lukewarm admission that the Sorting is kind of bad but there's really no actual reckoning with that fact. And by the final battle the entirety of Slytherin are shuffled away because they can't be trusted. Anyway Trans rights are human rights
@@jacksonreynolds7433 I remember an HP Lego set where the Sorting Hat was basically a roulette wheel. Hits the nail on the hat if you ask me. Joking aside, I'm more in the camp of thinking the Hat wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for Slytherin being a thing and guaranteeing that 1/4 of the school are a bunch of racist bigots. - As for Rowling, I frankly try to avoid talking about her and focus purely on the merits and misses of the books themselves since just bringing her up seems to put the whole discussion in a bad light.
It's been awhile since I read the books, but from what I remember, there was little to no perspective other than Harry's. So everything we see and experience, we understand through HARRY'S perspective. Because Harry is - understandably so - very biased against Snape from the beginning, I think it makes sense that we don't see the minutiae in Snape's expressions in the books. Harry has been bullied his entire life with the Dursleys; Snape would look no different to him. The human Snape - very flawed but not evil version - is a bit harder to see in the books, because they are from the perspective of a bullied child.
Right, but Snape wasn’t just cruel to Harry because of James (which in itself isn’t excusable), he also tormented Neville and a number of other children. What purpose could that possibly serve? What past damage could possibly justify terrorizing children to the point where you are the thing they fear most in the entire world? I understand where he came from, but I would understand if any of them could not forgive him. Doing one good thing doesn’t excuse years of harassment and manipulation. I feel bad for him, of course, but mainly I feel bad for the fact that he let his pain cloud his judgement and became the cruel person he spent years trying to hide from, to even the girl he “loved” most in the world.
@@Jellybeansatdusk I agree that Snape was cruel and probably could have laid off more than he did. I've heard some theorize that he did that to maintain his image in front of the children of Death Eaters who may report any Griffindor sympathies to their parents/Voldemort. I'm not sure I'm convinced by this, though I suppose it isn't outside the realm of possibility. And I agree the children had a right to never forgive him if they so chose. The tricky thing is that we only see glimpses into his mind, so his motivations behind each individual action isn't always clear. Maybe he was being cruel to protect them from something worse, or maybe he was grasping power wherever he could find it. Who knows? Tom Riddle, Snape, and Harry are often paralleled: they all came from lonely and cruel places but took different paths in response. Riddle goes homicidal revolutionary, Snape is a guilt-ridden turncoat and a cruel teacher, and Harry, despite everything he goes through, sacrifices himself to save everyone time and again. They came out of it in completely different ways. The ones broken and twisted by their struggles are the saddest cases in "Harry Potter," I think.
@@samanthacrews620 But the only glimpses we see into Snape's mind are of his own memories so wouldn't those also be biased? There is never a situation without bias so while yes Harry is biased against him by the last few books, it's A. due to Snape's own behavior (The maruaders were never around to put those biases in his head) and B. anything we see from Snape is going to be heavily biased FOR Snape.
@@mc720 To that point, any memory we see from one person's perspective will always be biased in their own favor. How could it be anything else? I think my greatest point in this, is that Snape is a relatable character because he is flawed and multifaceted. If a person discovers the cure for cancer but cheats on their partner, are they a good or bad person? We all go through things and how we respond to those things determines who we are. Snape had a terrible childhood, and he responded to it with decisions he later regretted (namely losing Lily). He was cruel to children, but he also protected them from an arguably greater harm. In the first half of the books, we see only the bad. In the last couple, we see some of his depth as a character appear, because Harry is given a glimpse into Snape's perspective. I love Snape's character, because he doesn't fit the mold of good or evil, because he makes blatant mistakes and works to fix them in his own flawed way. This isn't to condone his behavior, just to acknowledge his character in its entirety.
@@samanthacrews620 Yes, but to your initial point, Harry didn't start biased against Snape until Snape's own actions showed his character to Harry. Harry knew nothing of Snape before Hogwarts. I personally don't that Snape is equally good and bad - he is grey but greyness is a spectrum and he veers towards really bad actions and reasoning even though he is redeemed by his positive actions, especially with the level of danger they entailed. But to say that Snape might have actually been better and we don't see him as an objective character in the books is the point I find interesting (and not something I necessarily disagree with). Just to say there would never be an objective look at him. The good things we see about Snape are from his own memories so by the same token his "flawed not evil" view could be highly exaggerated in the opposite way. I don't disagree that he is a complex, flawed character. I'm interested to see how people consume media - a lot of (other) people go the opposite route and declare Snape a hero because they may be overcorrecting and I don't disagree with your entire statement. Like I said, I personally don't think his greyness is an even split, however, for his bad actions were far worse than the equivalency you produced and his good actions not quite as shining and pure. But as someone who reads the books many times over, in answer to your question of how Snape is portrayed it's not so simple as completely biased from Harry which brings up an interesting discussion. His good moments were shown through a highly biased lens of his own making. In many ways this probably balances out the unreasonable things Harry grows to think of Snape - but it's important to note that Snape chose the path that led to Harry's hatred of him, it wasn't innate, and the things that are positively shown about him may be equally blown out of proportion.
This really changed my perspective of Snape. I grew up reading and rereading the books all the time, and couldn't understand why so many people completely forgave Snape just because he loved Lily. He was horrendous not only to Harry but Neville and anyone else he could pick on, and showed favoritism to everyone in his house. Him loving Lily never justified any of his horrible behavior to me. Watching this now, I realize I was looking so hard at the book Snape that I didn't realize how different the movie Snape was made to be, and it seems as though thats the portrayal that everyone sympathized with and forgave. Very interesting to see
Very interesting point. The films really didn't reasonated with me, but I always joke that I'll never forgive Alan Rickman for making Snape so likeable. As someone who has worked as an educator, the way book Snape treated his students (not just Harry) is absolutely inexcusable. As far as I'm concerned, he didn't truly love Lily. And I found his death scene, requesting to see "Lily's eyes" profoundly creepy.
@@user-dc4nj3bv2lIt’s true that some people have that mentality, but science tells us otherwise. How Snape treats his students is an abuse of power and child abuse. It’s much harder for a child to learn when they feel unsafe. He was a 13-year-old’s greatest fear. Do you have any actual proof of this sort of environment being better for children that isn’t anecdotal? And honestly? It doesn’t read like tough love, it reads like a grown *ss adult taking out his bitterness and resentment about his own life on innocent children. “He didn’t want his students living the same way he had to.” I’m really confused with this one. You’re saying he bullied them so that they wouldn’t be bullied? That he, an adult in a position of authority (teacher), was cruel to them so that he wouldn’t suffer the way he did when an adult in a position of authority (his father) was cruel to him? He didn’t want them to feel marginalised by their peers so he humiliated them in front of their peers, thereby both giving their peers ammunition to use against them and signalling that it’s acceptable to treat people that way? I’m sorry, but the math isn’t mathing here.
@@theEumenidesAgreed on him not loving Lily. He clearly felt something for her, but I don’t think it was love. The point about him not trying to sabotage her relationship with James was interesting, but to me it almost looks like a martyrdom thing. It might have the same end result, but the possibility that he let her go because it was ingrained in his world view that life is unfair and everyone is terrible woe is me feels more likely than “I truly love her and I want her to be happy.” Or, if I entertain the idea that he did love her for the sake of argument, what I’m left with is that his hatred for James was more important to him than his love for Lily. It’s the only way to explain how he treats Harry. And the scene where he cradles her body while Harry cries in the background? Yes, we are seeing that they both lost her. It makes sense that Snape is grieving and gutted by her death. But we’re also seeing him completely ignore a terrified, crying child and that’s always bothered me. I’ve joked that Snape’s biggest redeeming quality is being portrayed by Alan Rickman so yep on that too.
@@hbicolenna6745 word "love" can be described very different and meaning depends on who you ask. For example, i would describe (short version) that word "love" means extremely deep care about another person. And that fillings "clicks" because of my personal definition of "perfect person" + of course sexual attraction matters. And true, real love is permanent for rest of my life. No question. Of course i understand that the person that i love isn't perfect. But after that "click" it doesn't matter at all. I just want that person was save and happy. And I don't care about anything else. If ill manage to end up be with loved one, i would be happy. Of i wouldn't, ok. I would be 2 step's behind and help when i needed. But i know for sure that its impossible to "move on". I will not even try. For my own mental health, and more importantly, for another person, who can like me, or even develope deep filings (or "love" in more "standard" meaning, or in worst scenario in my definition of "love") towards me. In the end, i would just broke someone heart, coz i would never truly care about. I can imitate. And im sure that my imitation can last decades and i would be batter that majority of people, seeing and knowing how bad in relationship they are. But i would never can be able to tell from the bottom of my heart to someone "i love you" And personally i can "feel" "fake" fillings towards me. And it such bad experience. I didn't want to do it others, especially if they would have fillings towards me. So with honest look, and probably most of the people will agree, that my definition of "love" ±= "obsession". But in my case i didn't consider it bad. I fully aware of my fillings and im responsible toward all people. And this "obsession", imho, is much more batter for all, then mess around with myself and others trying "move on" like most people recommend. Definitely will not work for me.
@@hbicolenna6745 i see lots of things in Snape's actions that i would never do in his place. But if i ended up lost my loved one, i would definitely didn't care (if it's not treating their lives) about Harry or anyone else. Yeah, crying baby is not good, but what should Snape do when he find Lily dead, especially because of him? He lost only one person in his life he truly cares about. So in that moment its logical that crying Harry for him is just background noise that doesn't even bother him. I cant see that he calmly goes to Harry to calm him down. And that scene didn't mean that he is not love Lily. It shows that he is. And his love have nothing to do with Harry at that point. It may be bad towards Harry, but definitely realistic showcase. And that scene definitely isn't illustrates that he is Not loving her.
At one point, the filmmakers were trying to fit Daniel with "green contact lenses" but he was having allergic reactions, so the producers went to Rowling and said, "How important is it that he has Green eyes?" Rowling's answer was, "Well, the IMPORTANT thing is that the eyes look like his mother's, so whomever you cast as Lily, if there's a resemblance, that should be fine."
Excellent series as always. However, I would like to make the argument that Snape is an anti-hero. He did things that would be considered “for the good of the many” though not (always) the right reason. His friendship with Lily was one of the only good things he had/enjoyed. She (for the most part) brought out the good in him, however little there was in him. It is through Lily that he does good things and with the adult Snape, it started when he went to seek Dumbledore on his own to tell Dumbledore what he’d seen and it was to protect Lily. Not Harry. And definitely not James. Just Lily and whoever else happened to be collaterally saved. Nevertheless, he continued to do morally grey as well as morally bad things to serve that purpose. Saving Lily. It is to Snape’s credit that he didn’t fall off the deep end when he lost that purpose and lost Lily for good. Yes, I agree that Snape didn’t get in between James and Lily’s romance but he did try (as all kids may try by trying to convince their crush that the person they have a crush on is the worst person) but his need to belong landed him more squarely with the Deatheaters and that was what placed the rift between Snape and Lily. Again, to Snape’s credit, it was one he realised he couldn’t cross… at least not without cutting off the Deatheaters that gave him some sense of belonging in the first place. (I don’t think Lily, being as young as she was previously and also learning to grow into herself as a person, could’ve given that to Snape. They were 2 different people with completely different mindsets and goals and probably would’ve grown apart.) After Lily, it was Dumbledore’s influence that fostered that “goodness”. Dumbledore’s genuine trust and friendship gave Snape the sense of belonging he longed for and it was enough for him to cut off his “fondness” for the Deatheaters. These were 2 people who were very capable of doing what needed to be done, irregardless of it being “good” or “bad” and whose goals somewhat aligned, Dumbledore wanted to save the world from Voldemort and Snape wanted to preserve what was left of Lily, Harry, who was seen by many (including Voldemort himself) as the only one that could stop Voldermort. I believe it was as their friendship grew that Snape’s goal became more aligned with Dumbledore’s as he started to see the world as Dumbledore did, from a bird’s eye view (and vice versa, Snape taught/reminded Dumbledore to keep track of the smaller things, the individual and person rather than just their use, which explains Dumbledore’s carelessness with Harry at times). And then, whether action bred emotion or the other way round, Snape learnt to care for another person…. Draco. He did what he had to, saving Draco as well as releasing his friend from the pain of his curse and preventing Voldermort gaining another advantage against Harry, while sacrificing the last few months he could’ve had with his friend. (I do not believe that Snape, in all his years as a Deatheater or pretending to be one, has never killed or tortured another or at least participated in the act in some way and so, was used to that.) It is near the end that Snape, both having learnt to see the bigger picture and wanting to fulfil his friend’s last wishes, decided that defeating Voldermort was the end goal. Not saving Harry’s life. Not preserving the person that Lily loved AND died to protect. Nevertheless, being friends with Dumbledore didn’t magically turn him into a good person (just as good old Dumbledore is not so good himself so it turns out that Harry was both fooled by Severus AND Dumbledore) nor was he an evil person from the start. He was a person who was capable of doing morally reprehensible acts and was used to doing those acts that he saw nothing of people thinking him only capable of doing those acts and even preferred it. He wanted to still be able to play that role of villain and Deatheater because besides the “goodness” in him, there is also a part of him that is used to doing the “evil” thing and he never looked beyond himself to see the effects his actions had to others because he was focused on himself and his goals. He was to play the secret Deatheater double agent even as he was truly a triple agent for Dumbledore (and himself) and that was it. I guess, in that sense, he’s a villain through and through because he’s only aim was to do what he wanted to accomplish. It just so happened that he wanted to accomplish was to defeat Voldermort, the person attempting to terrorise the world as well as the one who killed and is kinda responsible for the early deaths of the two dearest people in Snape’s life. Thus, he becomes an anti-hero. A person who did something good for the world though he himself not embodying traits that are stereotypically heroic or morally good. Snape is not a good person. Nor, is he entirely a bad one. He is merely a human, as complex and confusing and self-contradictory as any human can be. I love how this series highlights that humans and villains are really at heart, just “human” too and carry with them all the baggage that comes with it.
Something that sticks out to me is that Snape never wanted to be a teacher. The reason he's bad at it is because he never wanted to deal with kids. He was raised by an abusive muggle father, and bullied for being sallow even by the muggles who lived around him. Then he goes to school and is viciously bullied by the Marauders because they're bored and he's a Defense Against the Dark Arts nerd. Lily, the one person who shows him human kindness is disgusted by his friends and makes they're whole friendship conditional on him not hanging out with the death eaters. That's easy for Lily who is popular and kind so sees the situation in black and white, but for Snape, he can't find acceptance anywhere else. Then once he finally breaks away from the cult he was peer pressured into joining, he is forced by Dumbledore to stay at Hogwarts, a place of deep emotional trauma for him and teach kids. A job he NEVER wanted.
God….. just….. that scene where Harry’s parents are killed and Snape just cradling lily’s body gets me sobbing every time I watch it, and now it actually hits a lot harder since my dad is now in the hospital from a brain bleed this morning, god it still hurts my heart 😭 the acting in that specific movie was just an absolute masterpiece
You know, it is too bad that they only do movies. I would love too see a deep dive like this on a few other characters from TV, like Zuko from Last Airbender.
One thing I have never been able to get over about Snape is this: he never took responsibility for his anger and hatred for James. He only ever projected it onto Harry. Imagine seeing a child -- the child of the girl you're in love with, but still a child -- who's lost his parents, his wizarding family, and the whole wizarding world on top of that, and instead of choosing to be kind, choosing to be just as cruel as his father? It's not Snape's fault he was bullied, that he has trauma, and that he has anger, but at a certain point it becomes his responsibility to work through that and to make a choice to be good. That's my only problem with Snape. I think he was a hero in both the book and film, but he was never a good man in either. He was smart, and he was definitely brave, but not good. And that's okay--that's just how some people are. Actually one of the few useful things JKR has said about the books and films since the series ended is that "Snape is all grey". You can't really pull him into one catergory without redefining the category itself.
I haven't read the books, so I can only speak for the movies. But in the pensive scene, Dumbledore says to Snape: "he must never see your good side". That can be seen as Voldemort must think you're completely on his side. But it can also be seen as talking about Harry (or both). They knew Harry and Voldemort were linked and Dumbledore knew about the horcrux in Harry. So if Snape didn't treat Harry how Voldemort would want him to treat Harry (as enemy number 1), Voldemort could find out. And even begin to find out Snape was being a double agent, as he sporadically could access Harry's mind (including Harry's thoughts on Snape). Voldemort was gone, but Dumbledore told Snape he would be back. So they had to prepare for his return all way through. Including setting up the: "yeah, I hate Harry too" narrative. Seeing Harry as a clone of James and taking that out on Harry, could be genuine... but it could also be a complete facade to fool Voldemort. (Who knew how he felt about Lily, since Snape pleaded to him to spare her. So imagine if he didn't pretend to see Harry as "all James and therefore I resent him"... what questions that would automatically bring up to Voldemort about his allegiance.) Doing such a good job at it that he fooled everyone else (except Dumbledore) too. It's a better lie because it's rooted in something that used to be true before Lily died (last time Voldemort checked, so to speak): his hatred/resentment towards James.
@@gaininsight3897 that’s an interesting take! I never really thought about it. If we go with the movies, then snape does seem less of a straight up asshole to Harry in light of that theory. However, I do still think he was incredibly bitter, for example exposing Remus as a werewolf just because he couldn’t get Sirius captured by the dementors. I know he must have hated Sirius because he thought he betrayed James and lily, but exposing Remus, playing into wizarding bigotry and hatred, and essentially casting Remus out onto the streets again, that was beyond cruel and shows he didn’t grow. I still think he wasn’t a good man because of things like that. Also, calling hermione an insufferable know it all? It was kind of funny in the movie bc Alan Rickman just does it so well, but if you stop to think about it, that’s the sort of thing teachers are supposed get into trouble for. Also it’s just straight up mean to belittle a 13 year old when you’re over 40. So yeah, small things like that.
Yes he did. “Hide her. Hide them ALL. I beg of you.” Everything he did was to protect Lily even her family, including her son. Deep down he loved Harry that was clear at the very end of his life. He lost so much. He protected Harry even after Lily was long gone. Everyone can be an a** but we can’t truly know their hearts.
If someone says me that you can only watch 1 scene from all 8 movies,then I will definitely pick Snape's memories. The scene is so well acted,edited,composed and Shot and the Cinematography is so amazing. I really liked the scene and the Importance of this scene in the entire series is really huge. Alan Rickman nailed it,no one can do it better than him. I will choose movie Snape obviously
It's possible to stay in love with someone who is either no longer in your life or just doesn't love you back. That's how I interpret Snape's undying need for Lily. You don't choose whom you fall in love with, nor how long you love them for.
I can vividly remember reading the books, hating Snape for deceiving Dumbledore and returning to The Dark Lord, then the tsunami of emotions as I read Snapes memories in the pensieve. Reading that scene, realizing he was actually a double agent, that everything he did was for Lily, Harry and Dumbledore. It changed my life, how I view challenging people, how I interact with others. It changed everything for me, completely opened my eyes to another way of thinking about bullies and people in general. This series is a true masterpiece.
It's interesting to notice that in Severus' memory in the scene of him first meeting Lily she is this vibrant colorful girl, she makes a daisy bloom and she has this red hair and colorful clothes with flowers print while Severus stands by an old dead tree dressed in black and white and makes those dead-looking willow seeds fly.
I love how Snape has a very brief look of hope and love when he gazes into Harry's eyes. Where his face relaxes and his mouth agapes in awe as he realizes Lily still lives on within Harry. Alan Rickman absolutely nailed this scene.
As someone who recently found your channel you guys are my youtube dads. Ive been going through it with uni studies. Failing test, scared but you guys help me a lot. Ive cried many times listening and watching these videos. And all i want to say is thank you.
![30 ชั่วโมงคนเดียว บนรถไฟชั้น 3 โซเวียต [Around The World Ep. 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MlE9boAVqDA/mqdefault.jpg)
Everybody to Harry, all the time: "You have your mother's eyes!" Filmmakers: * cast a brown-eyed woman as the mother to blue-eyed Harry * Audience: "You had ONE job!"
Especially since its very clear in the book that they both had green eyes.
Indeed, they tried to get Daniel to wear coloured contact lenses in the first film, but they abandoned it after he had an allergic reaction.
Which is absolutely fine, but they could have cast a blue-eyed Lily or put some contact lenses on her, since it's hammered on throughout the movies
@@trinaq Yeah, but they could have gotten the actress playing Lily contact lenses or change her eye colour with FX in post-production. She didn't have all that many scenes, after all it would have been doable!
@@gozerthegozarian9500 Yeah, that's another option! I mean the issue here isn't the method, it's the result.
It still gets me when Snape says, "You've been raising him like a pig for slaughter." Alan Rickman was so masterful in that scene. You can see the disgust on his face and hear the quiet outrage in that line.
It was stupid. The movies white washed the shit out of Snape
@@ben1ben2ben1 I haven't read the book, but i'm assuming you have. My question for you (and others who have read the book) is: Do you prefer the book Snape? or the movie Snape? Do you prefer the villian over the hero?
And the funny thing is, Dumbledore made sure that not only would Harry die, but he'd have the tools necessary to come back to life; the Resurrection Stone hidden in the Golden Snitch.
People call Dumbledore a monster and "the real villain" but he played Voldy like a fiddle. He knew evil couldn't comprehend good and so Voldy would never suspect anything of not going according to HIS plan. Dumbledore didn't raise Harry like a pig for slaughter. He gave him every possible advantage to conquer the Dark Lord and emerge alive.
The only real monster is of course Voldemort...and maybe Umbridge.
@Avankiri. Harry coming back to life during the Deathly Hallows has absolutely nothing to do with the Resurrection Stone. Nothing.
In the story of the Three Brothers & the 4 loved ones Harry recalls with the Resurrection Stone are basically ghosts. They don’t have corporal forms. They don’t have bodies. They’re spirits. When Harry comes back he returns to his body. That’s because of two things. 1) Voldemort used Harry’s blood to rebuild his own body & in doing so he tethered Harry to life.
The protection Lily gave Harry extended to Voldemort & lived on through Voldemort which tied Harry to life. Dumbledore explained it in the book.
2) Voldemort cast the Killing Curse at Harry with a wand who’s allegiance was to Harry. Harry had the loyalty of the Elder Wand even though Voldemort was using it. Harry was the true master of the Elder Wand & a wand will not harm it’s master. So when Voldemort used the wand that was loyal to Harry to cast a curse at Harry it didn’t work. The curse destroyed the part of Voldemort that was in Harry, not Harry himself.
The Resurrection Stone played no part in Harry’s survival or his ability to return to this life.
To which Dumbledore says, "Don't tell me now that you've grown to care for the boy." And that's when Snape unleashes his patronus, and that's when it hit him. "Lili! After all this time."
Whether Snape is a Hero or Villan? I think Allan Rickman actually said it best: when asked why he always plays villains he said 'I don't play villains, I play complex characters.' I don't think Snape could ever truly fit entirely in either category. He's a man who did very bad things, and very good things.
Tbh what "very bad things" did Snape do in the movies? He was more of a savage than an outright bully like in the books
@@StarRider253 - His past shows us him as a Death Eater. This means not only he wore that creepy mask that erased his identity, but also that he may have committed crimes, maybe he killed people, both in Magic world and in Muggle one. Maybe not even Dumbledore knew how many things he had already done. Dumbledore just knew how great Snape's skills could be, and not just magic and potions, but his deep feelings, strong, hidden and not common. He had been bad, very bad, almost a criminal. His past is full of darkness, so he DID made very bad things, indeed.
I agree, he is neither fully good or fully bad. He's like a third party with his own interests, but debts on either side. He needed Dumbledore and couldn't just leave Voldy without loosing his life. But he always followed his own agenda - Lily, or more: Revenge and repaying his debt to her. And for that he did, what he needed to do. Everything else was just colleteral damage. He's not a good man, but did good things for his own agenda. He's a mean bully, but also a hero in his own way.
@Kuningaz
Well, he DID kill Dumbledore, even if Dumby asked him to do it. And he WAS a Death Eater. And as such (spy or not) he probably needed to do cruel stuff to prove his loyalty to Voldy, since Snakeface wasn't known for his trustful and forgiving nature, yes? Spying alone probably didn't do the job. It's just speculation, but not an highly imaginary one.
Voldemort did both good and bad things too. He’s my favorite. ❤️❤️❤️
Alan Rickman was the *PERFECT* casting choice for Severus Snape. No other person could have portrayed the character so well.
Yes and no, he did a great job portraying movie Snape.
But is is very far off from the book Snape that has very few redeeming qualities, the movies really polished him up and took away his nasty and pettiness.
Rickman is brilliant, much better then the character itself deserves.
@@TFAric I personally view the books and movies as their own seperate stories. Snape is my favourite character in the movies, but I don't like him in the books. The movies removed a lot of the more mean-spirited stuff from the books, not just in regards to Snape, but especially in his case.
I agree. Although for the upcoming reboot, I think Adam Driver would be amazing. We already know that he can play conflicted characters from his tenure as Kylo Ren, he has a similar voice, and he even has the nose.
@@samhenley7156 I rather not have Kylo Ren in Harry Potter, that role kind of ruin Adam for me.
@@Niobesnuppa That is why I think he was an awful book Snape but did the movie role well. I hope the series goes back to the childish, petty, spiteful sad little man that is book Snape.
On retrospect, it makes sense for Snape to insult Harry about James, but NEVER about Lily. You wouldn't think too fondly over someone who bullied you, but you would over someone who had been a genuine friend.
That's really interesting. Not being able to see that Harry is a combination og his parents and everything he has experienced. Like others, Snape needs Harry to represent something other than his actual self.
@@Firegen1 Precisely, nice to meet you again, Firegen1! Also, Sirius clearly views Harry as an alternative for James, which is why he proclaims "Nice one, James!" just before his death.
@@trinaq That line is only in the movies
@@bessieburnet9816 That line was put in to represent what was described in the books
I find it interesting that because Snape never dealt with his anger over James/Sirius’ bullying behavior, he was so willing to project that image on to Harry. He knew Harry grew up in an abusive, neglectful environment and instead of standing back to observe Harry in the new wizarding world environment, he automatically assumes Harry is an arrogant little dick. I often wonder how much of it is for the double agent role and how much of it is actual projection.
I feel like when he says to Harry “you have your mother’s eyes” he’s not just saying goodbye to Harry, he’s saying Goodbye to Lily and is finally letting go of the struggle he’s endured his entire life
Love this idea 😊
Imma cry for a second, don't mind me
that Goodbye is heartbreaking but when harry sees Severus's memories and realizes the truth about him, I bet he felt like the biggest idiot on the planet for his stupidity and cruelty.
It took me ages to get that. I didn't understand at all on the first few reads.
I think by having kept Harry safe and finally having full filed his mission, he could in his last moments forgive himself.
I think Snape saying “you have your mother’s eyes” was so impactful, especially to Harry. Everyone has told Harry that he has his mother’s eyes, but everyone else who said it was closer to his father and said it as kinda a way of saying “oh you’re just like your father but different eyes”, this was the first time someone said to Harry “You’re just like your mother and she was loved too. Not just for being James’ wife, but because she was a wonderful and impactful person who was loved.”
That's beautifully put. But never forget Slughorn and Lupin (in the movies at least?), who also had beautiful scenes with Harry talking about Lily.
It dosnt mean visually. Harrys eyes looked nothing like Lillys. He looked like James down to the glasses. "You have your mothers eyes" always meant her "kindness". She was always described as " kindness in her eyes". When they tell harry he has his mothers eyes, they are telling him "you look like James, but you feel like Lilly". That's something Snape is admitting as he dies. Harry, despite thinking this man is a villain rushes to aid/comfort him as hes dying. Hes not looking at him in disgust like everyone always has except for Lilly, he looks at him with Empathy... Snape is finally able to say out loud "you have your mothers eyes".
@@spoons250 FALSE. This is down to the movies not casting actors with correct eye colors (which at the end of the day doesn't matter much, it's just fun to gripe about). In the books this is very much a literal attribute that Harry and Lilly share. They both have the same vivid green eyes. Of course, Harry is also remarked to be a lot more like his mother in the way he behaves than his father, but based on what we know about James as an adult (not at Hogwarts), there's no reason to assume he wouldn't have shown the same compassion Lilly or Harry would. The difference is that James had to mature into having that nature where Harry and Lilly had it to begin with.
I think it was a thoughtful addition and agree with you ; especially since the full sentence everyone says is "You look just like your father, except the eyes".
@@spoons250 I'm sorry, but this is completely and categorically false. In the book, when Harry is in the Pensieve after Snape's death, we read how Snape was crushed at Lily's death and Dumbledore asks him to help protect Harry, and this is shown in the movie. However, the movie omits how Dumbledore says, "he has Lily's eyes. I am sure you remember the exact shape and color of her eyes?"
Having Lily's eyes is a literal thing.
Of course, in the some Pensieve chapter, Dumbledore tells Snape that he sees what he expects to see in Harry (Snape was comparing Harry to James), but that his base nature was more like that of his mother, which makes your point too.
I say all that to say this: Harry looks just like James except for having his mother's eyes, and his temperament is more like hers than James. No need to make these two statements exclusive. They can both be true.
Personally, I think that in those last moments, Snape FINALLY sees that everybody was right and Harry really, actually is a lot more like his mother than his father, because there is absolutely no universe where James would have done what Harry did in that moment. Kneeling there quietly while he's dying painfully and trying to help him, I think he had a sudden realization that no, this is all Lily and I've been wrong this whole time.
I like that. That’s now my new head canon. Harry was never as arrogant as James.
Wholeheartedly agree
@@NotEverThanks the eyes are a window to the soul
Why do you assume that James could never have done that? He was a good man too
@@havewissmart9602Also a bully..
When I read the books, I hated Snape until the end of the last book. In the movies I felt for him, Rickman brought a whole new dimension to the character and made him so much more than just a villain.
Alan Rickman was a wonderful casting choice for Snape.
Honestly, a lot of the parts were wonderfully cast. Can you imagine how hard it is the cast so many kids? Who basically have to grow into their roles.
I disagree with you. True it may he is less likeable in books than movies. But there is a lot redemption things he did in books never mentioned in movies
@@MMD_16-95 there was a lot more reading between the lines in the books that was almost too obvious in the movies. Because we could see the characters as they are rather than through Harry's perception.
Even in the books I never really cared for him, Snape feels too creepy to me - Lily never returned his interest and that lead him to have her killed, and then you have the guilt over her death, but at the same time he was absolutely monstrous to innocent kids. It's less of a redemption and more of Dumbledore finding an use for an incel...
@@tiffanysandmeier4753
Yeah. I mean in books he told Dumbledore " recently only those who i couldn't save " !!! And even called Lily. Lily potter! Not Evans .
I think the reason Snape is so soft towards Draco is because he sees how Lucius treats him. I think he identifies a bit with him.
yeah and i hate that rowling is like "why would anyone like malfoy, hes supposed to be hated!" as if there arent thousands of children in abusive households that go to school and bully other kids
@@Sputterbug I mean I never liked his character but hate is a strong word… it’s not his fault his father is an asshole. It’s hard to stand up to family
@@lunarialoonatic especially when you're 11
@@lunarialoonatic Is there any backstory about lucius? i have some theories about why he's such a looser trying to be accepted by Voldemort: like we know you are a pure blood, why are you trying so hard? but i've never looked for any canon info about his life.
Ooohhh … good call!
What always gets me in the movie version pensieve memories is the part where Lily says "Harry, Mama loves you... Dada loves you..." That was the last time anyone told that kid they loved him for at least 10-13 years. The Dursleys hate him, kids don't always recognize when a friend needs to hear that in so many words, so at the earliest it might have come from Sirius or Mrs Weasley. A heartbreaking but brilliant choice by the scriptwriter.
It always touches me how Molly adopts Harry. Especially at the end of the 4th book. She gave him a love that he couldn’t remember having his whole life.
No wonder poor Harry was so entranced by the Mirror of Erised
As a mom of an almost 2 year old, this part wrecks me every time. Just sobbing. I cannot fathom having to say goodbye to my child and make sure to tell him that his dad and mom love him as a last reminder. 💔
Absolutely.
And listening to it again, I realize that to a certain extent that was also an unbreakable spell that she cast on Harry. The spell of love that caused Voldemort's curse to bounce back on him. It's the spell that every person in the world should get to hear from someone, especially when they're little: "You are loved. You are safe. You matter."
In the books, it is revealed that Snape did indeed come from a broken home, with a drunk as a dad.
Drunk and abusive father
Wait so harry’s dad didn’t bully him in the books?
@@urja330 No, he didn't. Him being dead and all.
@@urja330 I think he did. I remember in the Order of Phoenix, there is a chapter where Harry went into the Pensive and saw how James and Sirius were verbally abusing him, calling him "Snivellous."
@@urja330 How did you came to this conclusion? Yes Harry's dad and his friends bullied him. In Pottermore, it's stated that Sirius and James "bullied him relentlessly" and that Snape's dad often used the belt on Snape. But even without Pottermore, the bullying is explicit in the books.
This ONE scene at the ponsieve completely redefined Dumbledore. It turned him into one of the coldest, most calculating characters in the entire series. The guy who would do ANYTHING for the greater good.
On the other hand, if he didn't where would everyone end up?
@@dohavename6775 Harry Potter world would turn into Russia
Wellhis brother describes his very well
@@dohavename6775 yes but Snape had to do a lot of the legwork for this greater good… dumbledore got the praise for being the good guy and Snape had to be the worst person to achieve the greater good…
@@moonfrog9878 And couldn't allow himself to even think of being otherwise... because his own thoughts would give him away to Voldy?
When he says, "Take it," is a great look into this character. He's dying, he can finally tell Potter everything, unburden his soul, but he does none of it. His first thought is for the mission.
He’s awful
That might've had more to do with him dying. Of course the mission was most important, but he didn't have time since he died preeetty fast.
@@Error_-ct2vp He's wonderfully misunderstood.
@@Bennahr_Fett is that an excuse to bully children and kill Dumbledore or somehow be redeemed? Or harassing Lily and calling her a mudblood and not leaving her alone? His character makes no sense and quite awful in all honestly. He deserved to die. Fuck that guy
True but if it was just for the mission he could have cut out most of the memory, instead he wanted Harry to know all of it and how much he cared about Lilly.
One main theme of the books is Harry's heroes being flawed and wrong and having made giant mistakes. Hagrid was foolish, Sirius was impulsive and reckless and sometimes mean, James was arrogant, Lupin was week and unreliable, Dumbledore was ambitious and manipulative. Harry has to acknowledge that, and forgive them. Snape is the opposite, the perfect balance. He is someone Harry hated, he was cruel and malicious, and Harry has to also see the good things he did. He has to see Snape the abuser, as a human, who was hurt, who loved, and who was very very brave.
I really, really like this take!
I cannot accept the part about Lupin (he his my favourite character and i have a soft spot for him - although i know where you're going with this), but the general thought is real good
@@acleamofhope He's one of my favorites too. I really want to state my case, but I'm going to use my little bit of self-control and not, even though it's one of my favorite monologues. Please continue to love Lupin exactly as you do. I was mainly referring to big argument and Harry being disappointed.
@@acleamofhope he did doubt Sirius, he ran away for over a decade, he tried to leave his wife and unborn son. He wasn’t perfect, he had a tendency to try and run away
@@Jellybeansatdusk yeah, that's true. But he also had an incurable illness that made his life really hard, every month over and over again. But the good thing about J.K.R. characters is that they all have their strengths and weaknesses, so of course he had some too
I totally read Dumbledore's "Please!" as kill me please in the books. He was in tremendous pain and he knows that he was about to die from drinking the potion.
Yeah when i read it i had the feeling it was something more to those words.
Yes it was pleading, but not due to pain but because of the plan. However the book is a lot more ambiguous with the way Dumbledore pleads like this video said. In the movie there isn’t same emotional connection with the way Dumbledore is behaving, he is more in control.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 Well i found both Dumbledore and Snape being a bit out of character so i immidietely suspected something, and hoped that it was so also.
Movie magic
That’s how I read it too. He’s asking for Snape to end it.
The Snape vs McGonagol battle in the films shows whose side he’s on - he never fights back, and when he knows it’s time to flee he makes sure the last deflected spells take out the death eaters behind him so that she doesn’t have to fight them too
Go back and watch the other scenes where Snape is present and children are in actual danger. Every time, Snape is protecting. He is subtle and sneaky enough to not be obvious. But he is constantly physically protecting not just Harry but all of the Hogwarts kids.
Yes, he defends himself and at the same time takes out the bad guys behind him without anyone realizing he did so.
@@moniquesmith9564 5:00
And he takes the Carrows wands in the film
This is only in the movies. In the books, the Carrows are taken out by Harry and others before this scene.
I think Snape is one of the most “real” characters… he’s villainous and also heroic. People are always a mixture of traits and behaviours - most of us are capable of being villainous and heroic.
the most human way to look at it
Yes!!
Yes!!! There is light and dark in all of us.
I don't believe he's villainous, except out of necessity (well, in the movie universe - I'd need to reread the books to get a more accurate interpretation). But, yes - definitely the most real character. And what a character.
The problem is that I don't think he ever really changed. It's only that Voldemort made the deadly mistake of crossing Severus Snape.
Snape being from an abusive home is canon.
Can’t remember details but they definitely reference it.
When Harry entered shapes mind there was a memory of a man screaming at a woman who looked like Snape. Then later in shapes memories lily asks Snape if his parents are still fighting.
Also young Snape is described as neglected.
There was a part in the books when Lily asked Snape if things were better at home... then something like "he doesn't like anything much" in response to another one of Lily's questions... he was definitely neglected, his parents seemed to be always fighting, they lived in the "poor" area of the city(?), he was really looking forward to going away...
I think at some point some limited collectors edition booksets were sold world wide, where extra chapters were introduced in each book (some books had more than others). My brother got one of those collections, and he told my that the 6th book in that collection was full of extra chapters detailing Snape's childhood, and how abusive it was
They mention too that this is why he goes by Half Blood Prince... Prince is his mother's maiden name and he resented having his abusive (muggle) father's surname. I don't think they ever explained that in the movies.
In the movie POA, Snape rushes to protect the three from Lupin when Snape thought they were in trouble, it was that moment I realized Snape was not a villain. The default behavior in times of crisis is revealing.
Yeah but that didn't happen in the book.
@@melhawl3685 There is a lot missing from the book, still got JKR approval though
Eh.
@@melhawl3685*Cinema* Therapy
I've always felt that Snape was a person who never liked children but was thrusted into a teaching position.
I feel like he did it because he felt Hogwarts was the only place he could call "home", like there wasn't any other place for him to go. Teaching was just the price to pay for having a place to be. Maybe it reminded him of Lily and wanted to be as close to her as possible?
Agree. He seemed to hate teaching and really didn't seem that successful of a teacher. He was thrust into it by Dumbledore.
I don't know I'd say if there was time (in books) when he was happy it was when he could bully someone. He is only described as happy when someone else is suffering and teaching kids gave him lot of opportunities.
@@jimmalou1978 I agree with him hating it, but I wouldn't say he wasn't successful. Despite his rampant cruelties, every single major character, including Neville, did well on the OWLs for potions, so at the very least, his instruction must have gotten across.
@@Vincent.E.M.Thorn.Author neville did much better at OWLs than he did with snape, harry also did much better when he only used snape's knowledge without him personally involved. I'd say this proves that reading instructions works better than listening to snape. Also problem is that his way of teaching made everyone hate subject and from personal experience I can say when you hate doing something because of teacher motivation to care for results often disappears.
Personally I think Snape is simply a great character in cinema and wouldn’t want to label him villain nor hero. Can you guys please do psychology of a hero: Captain Jack Sparrow? 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
YES. I would love to see a pirates episode!
omg id love to see this!!
I think Jack Sparrow might be too crazy to be "therapized", but it would be fun to see them try.
@@Cabamacadaf ?? what do u mean
THIS 💯
Everybody tells Harry all the time "you have your mother's eyes", but when Snape said it, it had about ten times more meaning (and tear potential).
Every instance of someone else saying it was a build up to his. Just brilliant
The writing was incredible enough to almost forgive him, but the more I think about it, the more it upsets me that after all these years of tormenting Harry, the only nice thing he could say in his last living moments was still about his mom.
@@Jen-jg4hzwhy? it was snape's last moments, not harrys, let the man think about the love of his life before he dies lmao
@@Fifi-jb3yx it doesn't make him a bad person, it was just a detail that struck a nerve for myself. I could never deny that it was tragically romantic though.
“You have your mother’s eyes”-it was the kindness in them not their shape or color…and in Snape’s final moments he saw that.
Omg thank you! Drives me crazy that people focus on the eye color and not the fact that they just look similar!❤
Absolutely true
Something else worth noting: he didn’t say that in the books. There, he only says “look at me,” which implies that he only wants to see Lily’s eyes before he dies. By adding this line, I believe that it serves as evidence that Snape came to care about Harry at some point by acknowledging that Lily is a part of him.
This could be partially true, but it was definitely because he had his mothers green eyes. He was the spitting image of his father aside from the green eyes he got from Lily.
I don’t think so. He wanted to see Lily literally. They eyes do look the same. It’s not like Snape ever had an arc where he really learned to understand Harry the way we do. The only kind thing Snape really saw from Harry was that he did come to him when he was dying. Other things fit his narrative that Harry was like James (who was still a hero but not kind to Snape) Maybe it was end of life revelation to him, but I don’t think so, if it was it should be about something bigger.
Also, the patronis thing is something so important most people usually gloss over. Its pretty much saying Lilly is still, to this day, Snapes only good memory.
This! It doesn't even mean that he still loves her, but that she was the only good/happy thing in his life.
I don't know if you've read the books, but forgive me either way.
In the books, a person's patronus changing is actually explained to be a reaction to something traumatic or having a very strong emotional feeling towards someone else and having the patronus match them in some way.
It doesn't have anything to do about specific memories. For example, Tonks' patronus changes in book six because Lupin, the man she's loves, told her that they couldn't be together because of his condition and it broke her heart. Eventually of course he gives in and they get together, but for almost an entire year, Tonks is physically depressed and her patronus is in the shape of a "big wolf" from Harry's point of view.
Sorry again. I like your theory though and I guess at the end of the day them both mean the same thing. Snape fucking adored her.
@@drd444You are absolutely right but I may be wrong but I think they were referring to him being able to conjure the patronus so easily not why it changed to match Lily's. But to create one I believe you have to have a powerful happy memory and Snape seemed to do it with ease.
If only he had been able to look over Harry’s similarity to James and see Lily in there. But instead he chooses to live in his pathetic memories.
I know and it’s heartbreaking.
I love how you classified Snape as both a villain AND a hero. You'd think that he's trying to thwart Harry as early as the first book/movie. But then, you realise that he's actually trying to protect him against Quirell, the REAL threat.
And yet he humiliates him in his first lesson for not paying attention even though Harry wrote down what Snape just said...
@@fusel5883 Yup... Snape's got really weird teaching methods
@@fusel5883 ONLY in the Movie!!!
@@michaelodonnell824 true. In the book he humiliates him for no reason whatsoever. That's better how again?
Remember, Snape is the ultimate covert double agent. He can’t give anything away…he HAS to be ruthless and wear the mask to be effective with both sides. The mission is the ultimate goal, regardless of who is sacrificed in the end. Dumbledore was the same, but his surface presentation was more congenial, so he played off in a different way. Think of what it must be to be CIA (or any other government’s ultra-secret operative/assassin).
I fully believe Snape had a part of himself that truly was sadistic and spiteful, that he could be just as genuinely hateful and an asshole, but also could be noble and self-sacrificing, and capable of love (the only death eater who could produce a patronus). Both a hero and a villain, because he HAD to be to fulfill his chosen mission as an adult.
In the books I saw Dumbledore's "Please" more as a plea to Snape to NOT let a pupil (Draco) become a murderer.
That is exactly what I thought too
@Rhianalanthula "And my soul, Dumbledore? Mine?" (4/12/2022)
@@daniellemusella1594 And Dumbledore points out that killing an old man who was already dying - at his own request no less- is a mercy that may or may not weigh on the killer's soul.
Not a reasoning for a teenager like Draco, but probably something a grown man can deal with.
I mean, the "please" is meant to be ambiguous in both the books and the films for those who don't know the ending/Snape's secret.
Agree
Snape was a half blood child. His mother was from an old magical family, the Princes. A sacred 28 family. His father was an abusive muggle who hated magic. He went to muggle primary school before going to Hogwarts. His mother died when he was just a boy. Lily lived in his neighborhood.
'Prince' aren't part of the sacred 28.
Wait where do you have the informatioj about her death from?
Rickman was just out of this world. He's so subtle when he's reacting to what Voldemort says or does, to let us know where he's at. it's genius.
I was really sad when he passed! I still miss him!
Rickman will always be remembered for his emaculate characterization of Snape. He put his heart in this portrayal and created individual nuances and depth into a character I didn't like one bit in the books but respected in the movies and made him entirely unforgettable.
@@coolmammavaterlaus360 I think he severely underestimated how much he was loved, both by his coworkers and by fans, especially young kids. And he will continue to be loved. In a way, it's a form of immortality. Robbie Coltrane said something like that, during the cast's televised reunion special: "I won't always be here, but Hagrid will". This applies to the entire cast. Pancreatic and breast cancer stole Alan Rickman and Helen McCrory, but Severus Snape and Narcissa Malfoy will always be with us. (5/21/2022)
Honestly, I lost the love of my life at 22 years old.
Alan Rickman's portrayal of the pain of finding Lily, ooon pooooint.
When I found out my love had passed, I practically fell out of my car and just wept on the driveway, I couldn't even stand up.
His pain feels so real in that scene.
Those who have been through grief not only watch that scene, but live it. I'm very Sorry for your loss ❤️
That's heartbreaking. I'm sorry for your loss
My heart ached reading this. No one should have to experience what you did.
I feel you. I was 21 when the love of my life committed suicide. I had a MASSIVE depression that lasted for a year or 2 or 3, I can't remember. I didn't have any psychological help, let alone medication. I just remember being numb and paralysed for most of the time, just sitting behind my laptop till the sun rose, wondering what would happen to my body if I jumped off my balcony or questioning what angle I'd have to stab myself in the chest to pierce my heart or how much force I needed to slit my own throat. I only found some solace in food and my body exploded with stretch marks and such. I begged for the universe to give me cancer so I could decline treatment or to just not wake up whenever I did go to bed, but I was too much of a hollow shell to do anything else. I could barely even cry most of the time. In 2 years time I tried to kill myself 3x, but I never managed, after 15 years (4 of which were after his suicide) I realised I hadn't been wanting to kill myself for quite some time. So from the age of 25, I declared myself free from dark thoughts, turning 30 this summer! I feel sorry for your loss, but I genuinely believe that, if it hasn't already, time can heal. Not cure (because that would mean erasing the problem altogether), but heal to help you process it and continue a life you want.
@@powerpuff_avenger Thank you for sharing that!! I can definitely relate. ❤️ I just turned 33 so it's been about a decade, but I can completely relate to everything you explained having gone through. I also contemplated various ways to end myself, and then once I decided I couldn't, I started purposefully putting myself in danger hoping that life would take me out itself.
I even drove for work at the time, and after 6 months of being a danger on the road, I quit. It took me some time to seek therapy, and tried a few different antidepressants before admitting that wasn't the way to go.
❤️
But, lots of time, some therapy, and lots of reflection, and lots of healing, things are definitely not so horrible anymore. Life has moved on, although he's kind of just become a part of me at this point.
To me the fact that Snape could be both a hero and a villain makes him one of the most relatable and "human" characters of the story
On the same note though with the marauders you see that even heroes are villains in someone else's story.
@@coralhunt8532 i think i would have hated the maurauders in school too if it was me lmao
I wouldn't call Snape very relatable. Most people don't go from joining dangerous extremists to becoming a double agent, all the while bullying children.
That duel against McGonagall where deflects the spells to kill the two death eaters is genius.
I love that moment when Harry walks in on a dying Snape and instead of projecting hatred or victory, he projects pity. He sees his death as tragic and has a moment of mercy on his “enemy” and tries to halt the bleeding.
Then you see the way Snape looks at Harry. In that moment, he sees Lily’s compassion alive in her son. Her ability to see the humanity in those others refuse to see.
It’s a glorious marriage of acting, scoring, writing, and filmmaking.
I've always thought this... That in both the films and the books, Severus never truly cared for Harry until the last moments of his life.
He knows for a fact that Harry hates him, and yet Harry impulsively rushes forward and does anything he can to try and save Severus... Because it's just who he is. It's who Lily was too, and I think in that final moment, Severus realized he'd never allowed himself to see that.
I always thought this as well. Brilliantly written, by the way, I don’t have much to add 💕
There’s a detail that even makes him more heroic: in the duel vs McGonagall, you can see how he deliberately deflects her attacks to the Carrows behind him, and before leaving, he takes their wands so they cannot hurt anyone when he leaves
Dumbledore "dont tell me the boy grow on you"
Snape shows the elk
Dumbledore "lilly? After all this time?"
Snape " always"
The always isn't to Dumbledores question on lily is about if he cares for harry that's him saying "i care for him as if he wus my own" and he did he died for harry like Harry's mom did
I never noticed he takes their wands, thanks!
Snape considers Minerva his friend.
Heroic🙄
That's a cool detail I never noticed before. Thanks!
Snape finally seeing the Lily side of Harry is even more heart-breaking because Harry was more like her than James in the first place (kind, compassionate,etc), but Snape just couldn't get past that that was James' son.
I thought Harry's birth was a sign that Lily never love snape
@@teddyflowers2798 not even. It was just that Lily didn't want to put herself in the position that a relationship with Sev would have done. James was the lesser of two evils.
@@ChristopherJames1993 not really, it is said that while james was a trashy person lily really didn't care about him, but by his last year in hogwarts james had become a gentle and caring person, while snape being in slytherin began being more racist, that's why he calls lily mudblood, since then lily decided to cut ties with him, snape became more sour, and his love became a toxic obsession, snape joined the deatheaters, shared ideals with them, it is not until he loses lily that he defies voldemort, i see snape as a human character, but people crucify james for being a bully during his teenage years, ignoring his change, he grew out of that, what snape had originally was love, but after their split, it becomes apparent that snapes innocent love turned into toxic obsession
@@ChristopherJames1993 this is a big stretch. Literally everything in the books suggests that as an adult, James was a very caring and loving man, and Lily had an amazing relationship with him. They were very happy (look at literally any memory of another character of them, or the letter Lily sends Sirius). Snape, on the other hand, became a death eater, called her a mudblood, and did unspeakable things to innocent people under Voldemort's name. It's not really even comparable.
@@normanpsycho9627 this is exactly it. HP fans love to immediately forget the part where it's emphasised by multiple characters that James became a very different person after the memories in the pensive
I always thought that Snape hung on to his love for Lily not only because of her kindness but also in penance for his part in her death. I feel that the only way he could go on required him not only to remain a double agent secretly loyal to the Order, and to do it without being recognized for it (hence him telling Dumbledore not to tell anyone his role), but also by remaining faithful to Lily's memory and never allowing himself to love again.
What I'm hearing is, "Snape died a virgin."
@SinHurr Seems likely, doesn't it?
I do feel like you're giving Dumbledore a huuuuge pass. It's more obvious to me in the books, but Dumbledore is horribly manipulative towards Snape. Yes, Dumbledore defends Snape, but it's only to the extent that he can use him. Dumbledore extracts a promise of service from Snape (in return for something Dumbledore doesn't even deliver!) and from there, Snape, together with Harry, is his strongest weapon against Voldemort. He is the only inside man in Voldemort's organisation that Dumbledore has ever had. The relationship between Snape and Dumbledore is appallingly one-sided, with Snape as a giver and Dumbledore as a taker. Dumbledore at one point explains to Harry that he didn't want to get attached to him, and with Harry Dumbledore doesn't succeed - he is too fond of Harry. With Snape he does succeed. There is no sympathy there, at all. Dumbledore and Snape have a working relationship and share an aim, and Dumbledore treats Snape like a means to an end. Snape, meanwhile, seems to genuinely care about Dumbledore (and in the books is forever angling for his approval, which he never gets).
I used to adore Dumbledore, but - argh, his treatment of Snape is abominable.
I loved what Alan Rickman did with what he was given in the films, but I'll forever be sad about how much Snape's character was reduced in the movies. The books have many flaws, but Snape is one of my favourite characters in all of literature. He is a person who could have turned out quite differently if he had had any kind of support, but he didn't have that: he comes from a disadvantaged background, his father was abusive, his mother wasn't strong enough to protect him, he is very badly bullied at school and neither teachers nor headmaster interfere. All he has is one friend of his own age, who can't be expected to deal with all that social and emotional baggage. He lashes out once in a moment of total humiliation and loses his only friend. For the rest of his life he just gets used, by Voldemort and by Dumbledore, and he never gets to realise his great magical potential. And then he gets killed in the line of duty before he's 40 - and thinking he has sent Lily's son to his death. Out of everyone in the story, he gets the rawest deal of all.
Masterfully put! I read the books and saw the movies last October. I loved Snape in the books, but I love Alan's magnificent portrayal of Snape in the movies the most. That's who people will always remember as the real Snape.
In the books he can be terrifying and sometimes cruel. Hurt people hurt people. He was a loyal and loving heart that was treated like garbage and beaten to the point of almost losing his life many times. His father was a raging drunk who beat and demeaned him and his mother. Then when he went to Hogwarts (which was the place he believed would save him) with his only friend, Lily, he was separated from her by the Sorting Hat. The Marauders were brutal, they were just as cruel as his father. They even developed a map where they could literally find him anywhere in the castle to go torture him some more. Dumbledore made him keep his mouth shut when Sirius actually tried to kill him by leading him to Lupin transforming in the Shrieking Shack. I believe Snape didn’t believe James tried to save him and instead was saving his own skin. I mean he would be punished and definitely be expelled with his mean friends. What would his Mommy and Daddy say to that? I am sure he was probably suicidal many times with no one to talk except Lily. I think he joined the Death Eaters because there was peer pressure in his own house to do it, and he desperately needed to learn skills to protect himself and also have some kind of support. After all the abuse (and serious PTSD) he fell into anger, and vengefulness, and a way to protect himself being in a crowd of thugs that gave him protection. But it wasn’t who he was, he did it for survival and talked himself into believing it was the only way he could protect himself and loose some of his terrible anger. He had experience much more abuse, cruelty and pain than he ever experienced light and love. When He blew it one time out of fear and frustration and called Lily a racist name, it wasn’t good. because he desperately tried to make amends with her, she didn’t have to completely cut him off. He just fell down a hole of darkness when she married James. He probably joined his fellow Death Eaters to cat around prostitutes and Knockturn Alley o find hopeless women who were lonely. I’m sure he got lots of support for that from his DE friends. But after awhile it did nothing for him. I don’t know if he would be as involved as the other DEs in attacks. He was probably a Master potioner for Voldemort instead, but must have had some time in the field with them. When Voldemort killed Lily and James, and almost killed Harry he blamed himself when it was really Peter Pettigrew who betrayed them. Thus started his arc of redemption and his working for Dumbledore. He not only saved Harry many times, but he did Draco, Ron, Hermione, even George Weasley and as many kids and people he could. Since Voldemort was a strong Legilimens, I think he had to be a bit cruel to the kids in order for Voldemort to believe that he was on Voldy’s side. The colder and meaner he was, the mor Voldemort trusted him. Dumbledore knew that too which is why he had Snape do his mercy killing of him. Snape just had to stay alive and play his part until he could get the truth and Harry to know who he really was. Snape even got that done while dying from wounds and snake venom. The only reprieve for him was that he got to see Lily’s eyes in Harry one last time. It was heartbreaking seriously.
Snape was seriously emotionally damaged, but he was also unbelievably courageous and magnanimous with his protection. He really had so much to give and was so powerful, and so abused and used, and betrayed. He got his job done, to his credit, and did not die alone, thank goodness.
The book is important to read because I think we get more of Harry’s and the student’s POV of Snape. And of course, if the kids saw him as that evil, he would look hideous in their eyes, which Snape used to keep Voldemort believing in him. He was a hero/anti-hero in the books. But in the movies, he was a hero, and a romantic one at that. And Alan Rickman could make you fall in love with any villain if he wanted you too. He invests so much of himself, and his training and technique in very character he does. And on top of that, he can be hysterically funny.
When I’m in a funk, or the world feels like it’s falling apart, I watch these movies because hey are filled with my fictional comfort characters. Here is Snape and is great heart and courage ( he should hav been sorted into Ravenclaw or Gryffindor, but don’t tell him I said that); Dumbledore with his wise old sayings and crafty moves and care; Harry who we all adopted in our hearts; Hermione who was the girl most females could relate to and so darn smart; the Whole Weasley family and their get togethers…and more. Each character has a very carefully and fleshed out backstory.
But my favorite was Severus Snape, who was made of Merlin, Heathcliff, Mr. Darcy, Hades, a prize winning strategist, healer, and Lancelot, all mixed up into one. And thank you Alan Rickman for all your work. Rest in bliss.
@@melaniejackson-cracchiolo356 OMG what a beautiful and concise analysis of Severus Snape. I agree whole heartily, but I tend to think he stayed a virgin. At least, I have no doubts he would remain celibate the rest of his life, after Lily died. I think he would believe it would be a dishonor to her memory. Besides, he didn't think he deserved anything remotely happy or pleasurable.
I agree 💯%. Dumbledore really used people for his own end, especially Harry and Snape. Like you said, he horribly neglected Snape as a student. He did nothing to protect him or support him when he was bullied and tormented by the Marauders. He did nothing for a traumatized 15 year old, after the werewolf incident. I feel Dumbledore was to blame for most of Snape's problems. Snape could have turned either way, but he possessed just enough love in him to do the right thing, giving himself entirely to his mission. I love and adore Severus and mostly his magnificent portrayal by dear sweet Alan. To me, Alan will ALWAYS be the true and only Snape
i think what sums this point up is this scene
Snape (begging him) “hide them all”
Dumbledore “and what will you give me in return”
we are talking about protecting the only person who can defeat Voldemort. dropping that since it wasn’t certain yet he just told you that Voldemort is targeting one of your most prominent members in the order. you should be paying him his weight in gold for this information not demanding more from him to justify protecting them.
One of my dearest friends was considered the best Snape cosplayer on the east coast, and as I loved both my friend and Snape’s movie persona, it was like a punch in the gut when Alan Rickman died, followed by my friend’s losing his battle with cancer. I will never not cry when I hear Always.
That’s so sweet but sad, thank you for sharing.
Pretty sure I've met him at conventions, also a singer yes, quality human being the world's sadder without him.
This is genuinely depressing to hear. I'm sorry for your loss.
That's so sad, I'm sorry you had to go through it. If you want to inflict more tears... There's a song called 'Always' by Beth Crowley that is about Lily and Snape. It's beautiful,if you we want to check it out. 🤗
Is this friend..Vladimir snape?
One of the songs that plays is Dumbledore's farewell, another is called Lily's Theme. It plays when Snape tells Harry he has his mother's eyes. A very nice detail. Both of those pieces are absolutely beautiful and painful to listen to.
I think it's actually called Snape's Demise, but it contains parts of Lily's Theme, but it's a nice touch. Makes you cry even more!!!
I like the fact that you mentioned the gang aspect. Snape was indoctrinated into a cult. I don’t think that gets enough attention. The reason he was so susceptible was because, like you said, no one loved him. He was bullied and abused at home and at school. Though he loved lily, the betrayal of watching her with his tormentor was just another kick to the guts. I think they show this through flashbacks in the movies as well… they certainly depict it in the books. While I don’t think that excuses what he does - we still send gang members to prison - I think a lot of people who see snape as simply evil don’t have experience with dealing with people in the grey areas of society. To me, it was clear by the end that snape had played that role - deatheater - right to the end, at a great personal cost. Who we see right before he dies shows that he wasn’t that person. And that’s the tragedy of snape to me. He spent his whole adult life playing this role, having no friends or support, no personal life that we know of, and then he dies.
Any particular reason she allowed that abuse to continue?
But he didn't love Lily enough to give up the dark arts or his friends when she asked him to. And that was before she got with James on their seventh year.
The history of Snape scene has got to go down as one of the most powerful moments I’ve ever experienced in a film.
Oscar performance category ❣️❣️❣️🥇🏆🎭
You have to read the books. So, so much better.
True.. Very True
@@Augustbeauty69 I read the last book the day it came out! Amazing. As Jonathan said, book Snape and film Snape are pretty different dudes.
Pretty damn bad. Not the actor but the character
This was the biggest lesson that HP ever taught me. I was reading the books thinking the worst of Snape after he killed Dumbledore, kind of feeling that Snape couldn’t be trusted by Dumbledore without a reason, and then when we read that Dumbledore enlisted him to help after suffering so much loss and making Snape carry the burden of the entire Order as a double (triple?) agent to protect the entire magical community from the Dark Lord. I remember sobbing into my book, tears on the pages, seeing that so many people believed the worst in him and didn’t see what he was doing. How much hurt he was carrying by himself with no one to help him. It taught me that hard lesson. You don’t know what burden someone is carrying, or what someone who is completely terrible like that has done for others. There are people out there that are outsiders or hated by others that just need someone to be on their side and save them from the worst of society’s derision. They need someone to trust and love them. That’s why I’ll always be on Snape’s side.
Same here. Reading hp last books made me realise humans are complex there is no black and white
Broadly speaking, I don't think the HP books are particularly well-written, but the chapter The Prince's Tale has the distinction of being one of only two times a book has managed to move me to tears. (The other time was A Tale of Two Cities, which suggests that personal resonance with the subject matter had a lot to do with it, but even so.)
Well they’re not very well written if you’re not in the age group the books are specified for, but I do agree with you. I read an entire series for that small bit of emotional pay off. I believe it is what I said after I read that chapter. In my own opinion, I’d say that JK definitely wrote those books for the culmination of Snape’s story, Harry himself having very little to do with the end results of my liking the books. We collectively read an entire book series just to read Wuthering Heights fanfiction.
I hear you. Thanks for sharing.
”My word, Severus, that I shall never reveal the best of you?” I still find that line heartbreaking, because even if Snape was deeply flawed and acted on those flaws he also agreed to live a lie about himself, knowing the truth might never come out. The scene in the last book where Harry finally tells everyone in the great hall the truth about Snape is melodramatic but also cathartic, I would have loved to have seen it in the last movie.
As Sirius So wonderfully explains it. “The world isn’t split into good people and Death Eaters. We all have light and dark with in us.”
Snape, in my opinion is one of the best written characters in the books and movies. The movies definitely portray him as more sympathetic then the books for sure. But the whole debate of is he a villain or a hero is kind of moot. He is very much both at different times throughout the story.
I loved this deep dive into Snape though. I’ve watched and read Harry Potter so much that I thought the sad stuff didn’t bother me much any more. But you got me to tear up with you a bit. Lol
Ah Snuffles.. he's so right. Snape is a hero imo. He's an ass - but he does do whatever it takes to bring the true BBEG down. His motives may not have been purest, but he was never evil himself. He was broken and took refuge with the broken. He still chose to forsake what he'd surrounded himself with in order to do what was right, in the end.
Snape wasn't good - he was 1000% pure grade A ASS. But he wasn't evil either - and he was crucial for Harry to take down Voldy. So.. hero. In both books and movies lol.
Even Harry agrees that learning Snapes story was what made the difference of being forced to fight a battle he couldn't avoid, and walking head held high into a fight he was prepared to give his all to. It made all the difference in the world
Exactly. Snape is the character most like a real person
The problem with Sirius saying that is that that's exactly what Rowling split the Harry Potter universe into. All the villains either are Death Eaters or have similar beliefs to them.
Exactly, after having read all the books like 10 times and throughout various times in my live, my firm opinion is that Snape was undeniably a hero but that he also was a horrible person!
@@Xehanort10 but not really. If you think about it, how much damage did Fudge do just by refusing to act, merely because he was so afraid Dumbledore would take his place as Minister? Wouldn't he qualify as villain?
And what Sirius says aplies to a lot of characters. There was Crouch Sr, who was straight laced and self-righteous as fuck, but equaly abusive and protective of his son. There was Sirius himself, who was smart and brave but also reckless, immature and living vicariously through Harry, which put them all in danger (edit: he was also quite the bully as a kid, obviously). There was Seamus and Zachary Smith, who were assholes (at times, in Seamus case) but not evil. Even Draco, who was a little shit but didn't really want to kill anyone, even when Voldemort was threatening his parents.
its a shame Snape never let his guard down with Harry, he might have had a chance to experience what everyone else said about Harry, that he had the same gift of compassion Lilly had
Would not have gone over well with Voldemort
I think he always saw it, therefore experienced it from far. Snape was always observing Harry, and for sure could see how he interacted with others, which is why he definitely couldn’t leave his guard down, he needed to protect him from Voldemort since he had the ability to see into people’s minds…
I know what it's like to build walls around your self, to protect your self. And your Emotions . I was always "the strong one"so to speak, for everyone else who was grieving but behind my smile or sometimes cold emotionless look. If any one ever payed attention to my eyes. They would have seen the hidden pain there. Snape is the same way, though a fictional character, he is the perfect embodiment of people like me in real life not just stage films and books. People like snape really do exist in real life. Not just in stories. Any one who has suffered depression and other mental illness, that messes with you Emotions , know what I mean. (And I'm not taking about magic)
Not many people are pure evil and whether someone is a hero or a villain to me is simply a question of which has the majority, since normally people are a mix of both good and evil.
The closest to pure evil in the HP universe is Umbridge.
Voldemort is crying in a corner right now 😂
Umbridge is the worst. Voldemort may be the ultimate level of evil but we all know someone like umbridge. She needs her own villain therapy.
Umbridge is probably also the most realistic evil. She is the type of evil that people may see in real life. Doing thing "by the book" without sympathy or compassion. And go beyond because the people they are dealing with are some kind of other.
Other being enough for a person or people to justify not treating them as fellow human beings.
To Umbridge, Harry is a liar, and a symbol if allowed to grow could threaten her or who she supports' power base. To her it is political, and he and Dumbledore are ideological opponents. She was trying to isolate Dumbledore from his supporters. Harry was just a means to an end, and the end justifies the means.
The world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters. We've all got both light and dark inside of us. What matters is the part we choose to act on.
Lawful Evil vs Chaotic Evil
Not me tearing up at the Snape memories scene still, it just hurts more knowing Alan is gone. Just what a talent.
Honestly, as someone speaking with little to no first hand experience of the HP series, but has grown attached via the people around me who have been attached to it, and seeing scenes and learning about the lore and characters, I would say the matter of is Snape a hero comes down to if you believe a hero is someone who strictly, or mostly does good, because there are many definitions as to what classifies a hero, honestly I feel like Snape shares a resemblance to mythological heroes, who are rarely categorically good people, but are often hailed as heroes because they achieve something great or did one or more "good" things over the course of typically very human, imperfect, and sometimes spiteful lives.
TLDR: Do I think he's a hero in the terms of how we'd describe a benevolent savior from comics? Heck no.
Could he qualify to be called a hero by the metric of a heroic standard where being "good/nice" isn't a requirement? Absolutely.
Yes
Absolutely this 👍🏻 You hit the nail on the head!
And that's honestly why I like as a character. Literature has too many black and white backdrops. . .whereas Snape is very much in the moral gray zone. He does not like Harry, he was never going to like Harry. . . but he did what needed to be done anyway. It doesn't excuse his actions towards Harry at all. . . but the fact of the matter is. . .Harry wouldn't have prevailed without Snape. . and Snape (even in the books) could have done far worse.
A morally 'white' hero, while enjoyable. . is fairly predictable and boring. A gray one? you get to explore moral choice and play a lot of mental 'what if' games.
Exactly. I love characters that aren’t placed in either black or white
@@hallaloth3112 that's exactly what i think, i think snape is rowlings greatest literary achievement, he's a fantastic, layered, controversial character and just so compelling. it's the same reason i loved boromir, or game of thrones as a whole, where every character was grey.
I love that Snape is so hard to categorise and it's delightful that he can be both under Villain Therapy and Psychology of a Hero
I see snape as tragic villain.
I never agreed with the toxic obsession angle- he found love and sat with it. He didn’t try to force lily or undermine her relationship.
I think we are told everyone is deserving and capable of love- and we are but that looks different for so many.
As an abuse survivor I’ve worked years to love myself and feel safe in my environment, but still struggle with accepting love and friendship as those things are volatile- they depend on another person.
I really do believe that some people are broken by their experiences and sometimes all someone can do is find a way to be safe. Shape was safe in his love for lily, and he didn’t find love away from her. That’s tragic, but for him it’s what he could handle.
Reading your take on Snape's love for Lily really hit home to me. He is indeed human and I definitely have felt the need to be "safe" in a certain someone's love. Because it's familiar and in a way... it gives me security. Although I became a little too dependent on *that* love (working on it now).
he shouldn't have been a teacher tho
"Snape" not Shape. Please edit, your comment deserves it
@@maomi1852 but it IS bad. He is a terrible teacher and terrible human being towards his students
Something that always irks me is that Lily and James look about mid 30s when they died, when in the book they had Harry pretty much in their very early 20s, maybe 21. Making them younger would have underlined the tragedy of their deaths since they were so young. Just like Sirius was the same age when he was sentenced to Azkaban
I mean, Snape was also their same age when they died, but the casting of Alan Rickman was too perfect that the age of the actor didn't matter. But yes, if they were maybe CG'd a bit younger it would have helped.
Allegedly it was solely the casting of Alan Rickman as Snape who made them age up all of the characters
i think they aged them so the film would be relatable to the primary younger audience, since the age of the actors would reflect the real life parents of the kids watching. and then later it became an issue of retaining the same actors in memories
Yes, may be. But they also cast a young Lilly with brown eyes. So I am not sure if they care enough for those details in the book to make it through the films.
It really bugged me that they ages up all the characters, wish I could forget the films
Snape is an anti-hero in my opinion. And I adore him in both the books and movies for different reasons. But yes, Movie Snape is best Snape.
I adore characters that make them selfs the out to be bad or hated so someone else can be the hero or what ever when secretly there good
Yes, definetly
Yeah I liked Movie Snape more as well, he felt more complex to me than the book version did. Book Snape was an entertaining character though.
i would hardly call him an anti hero. that gives him way too much credit. if anyone other than rickman played him, no one remotely would adore the character.
No, he's not, he's a villain who simply helped the good guys out of guilt when the woman he was obsessed with died.
Never forget that, in the books, Snape was the one to listen in on the prophesy and relay it to Voldemort. Knowingly selling out a literally baby to be slaughtered without a care in the world. And only actually caring once he found out it was Lily's child.
Even then he didnt care about the baby, he asked dumbledore to save her then Dumbledore told him that he disgusts him and only then did Snape say "hide them all then"
Well yeah, Harry was the fruit of the love between Lily and James, it’s really human of Snape to think that way for a moment. Although he said whatever he said, his actions pointed to another direction which makes him really interesting.
@@lueiza2010 I have had some people in my life that I have really, really despised. At no point would I EVER consider leaving an 18 month old baby to be murdered because they were one of those people's child. That reaction does not make make Snape "really human".
In the book I always took the "look at me" line as "finally see me for who I really was", not the literal way it's presented in the movie.
I love this perspective
It's both.
great perspective ahh
Agreed. I did too.
I always viewed that line as snape wanting to look into Lily’s eyes one more time.
It’s even worse when you realize that Snape feels like he’s at least part of the reason Lily’s dead because he told Voldemort the prophecy
And the other part of the reason is in Spinner's End with him at the beginning of Half-Blood Prince. Amazing how Alan Rickman could pull off cold contempt masked as idle indifference with a paper flip, three words, some hesitation, and a flick of the wand.
*"Run along, Wormtail"* (because you deliberately betrayed the only person I ever loved, you coward)
Part of his hate for Harry is projection about that very thing. Sure he sees James, but how can he rightfully get close to the child of the woman he loved, who he got killed. So he pushes Harry away, because he hates himself for killing Lilly and he cant let himself get close because he killed his mom by accident. So he projects his own self hate along with his hate for James onto him.
Edit: He is punishing himself by punishing Harry. He wants to love Harry, but he can't let himself from his guilt. Snape is very complex.
He IS part of the reason Lily’s dead and he should feel guilty.
@@Victoria-ol7lh And the fact that he does makes him very human.
Snape begging Dumbledore to save Lily, to hide all of them from imminent death, and Dumbledore asking "What will you give me in exchange?" Dumbledore could cruel and manipulative too.
Yup! Exactly seems people miss that point. Snape is begging Dumbledore. Snape is also confronted later on by Dumbledore when Snape is upset that Harry has been led to be the sacrifice the whole time and Dumbledore questions him about still holding a flame for Lilly at which point he releases her Patronus. You can see the pain that Snape is carrying with his burden in his eyes as he looks at Harry during the death scene. This is when Harry's perspective of Snape is shaken. At the pensive Harry sees for the first time how his hero was not always for him, that Snape covered for Dumbledore multiple times, and even though he protested what Dumbledore wanted he acted out the way he was requested to. The character arch is brilliant because the viewer thinks they know Snape and that he is just a power-hungry villain. Turns out he's extremely powerful but going through personal agony that he has to keep quiet. While playing his part. Dumbledore renders him impotent to being the full Snape he could be by not allowing him to fully protect Harry as he wants to.
I don't remember Dumbledore saying that in the books. I could be wrong but I think that line was added in the film to save time. I remember Dumbledore in the book being disgusted at Snape for begging and groveling to save Lily, but not caring about saving anyone else. I remember him asking him to protect Harry because it was the right thing to do, and that he would offer Snape protection for doing so, but I don't remember Dumbledore making it about "what will you give ME in return"...
Dumbledore is speaking Snape's language. A manipulation if you like, but also communicating with Snape in a way he could understand, and finding out how far this fracture goes. If you're trying to stop a group of power hungry murderers, and there's a chance to not only turn one of them from that path, but use them to stop other deaths, you take it.
Now Dumbledore using Snape's love of Lily to protect Harry, to keep him alive for the right killing, that's what I call manipulation. As Harry reflects, Dumbledore knew he would do it, because he had taken the time to know Harry & loved him, even as he steered him to this fate. Darn these were good books, so many layers
@@randomsoprano85 He did say the exchange line in the books, but I don't fault Dumbledore for it. They were at war and here was an opportunity to gain a valuable spy, so of course Dumbledore demanded that in exchange. He definitely would have protected them regardless, but he would have been a fool not to attempt to gain a double agent in the process
@Lynn Sud Yeah I totally agree, Dumbledore is no saint, he’s manipulative as hell and sometimes his tactics seem cold, but he’s doing it for good reasons
I do remember that before Rickman took the role as Snape, he had requested J.K. about all of the information of why Snape was the way he was. At first she pushed back but in the end told him under the condition that he doesn't divulge the information. And when the book finally came out where we learned that Snape had been in love with Lily after all those years, Rickman stated that he was aware of it from the beginning of the movies.
That's not true at all, after he said yes to the role and after they started filming the movies he talked to jkr and said that he didn't really know how to play the role because he didn't know were it was going. Jkr told alan a secret, that he chose not to reveal (until his dairy came out), she never imposition that to him.
Something that just struck me is the editing for the memories. When Snape says the first time, "When the time comes, the boy must die?" It then cuts to him finding Lily dead. To me, that's an intentional stream of consciousness from Snape. When he finds out Harry has to die, he thinks of that amount of loss, he doesn't think of getting back at Voldemort or anything else. It makes his criticism of raising Harry "like a pig for slaughter" that much more cohesive.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go sob in my corner.
Growing up, I had a childhood best friend. She and I were "soulmates" from the day we sat next to each other on the bus. My darling best friend was murdered at 20 years old. The 20th anniversary of the day her body was found was April 19th of this year. All day, I was stuck in flashbacks of getting the call and hearing my own voice scream crying, wailing. The pain that only those who have loved deeply and lost, know.
The editing for the film captured beautifully that feeling. A lifetime of memories, years of love and pain, and knowing that love will never die, never lessen.
i can feel your pain... i'm so sorry you experienced that. i hope you're doing well, sending love ❤
@@flamingmonkeyheads You are so sweet, thank you!
My best friend since age 8 died of cancer four years ago, I wish I had died with her or in her place.
@@kilderok Kilderok, I am so sorry. I know that feeling all too well. Remember, your best friend would also have said the same for you. She would want you to live for the both of you. Whether you go somewhere new or to the places you used to go together, think of her. Imagine her cheering you on, telling you how proud she is of you.
I’m sorry you had to go through that 💔 I reacted that same way when I got the call about my dad. That scene hits so much harder now, and it was painfully raw to begin with. It’s a wonderfully crafted scene.
I enjoyed this episode so much! When Jonathan started explaining how an unhealthy obsession is when you try to sabotage a relationship or force someone (in this case, Lily) to make a choice, I was instantly reminded of James behavior. In Chapter 28: Snape's Worst Memory (HP and the Order of The Phoenix) he bullies Snape and uses him to force Lily to go out with him (Quote: "Go on... go out with me and I'll never lay a wand on old Snivelly again" page 597, line 24-25). I think it's a very interesting contrast considering that many people (Snape-haters especially) say that Snape had an unhealthy obsession with Lily, yet never seem to see a problem with James' behavior. If you ask me, I would say that it's James who seems to be more obsessed with Lily. When Severus lashes out at Lily and calls her a slur due to the pressure and humiliation of being turned upside down for everyone to see his underwear, he then goes to apologize to her later. And when Lily says she doesn't want to be friends with him anymore (which is fair), he backs off and never bothers her again. Which AGAIN, is a very interesting contrast to James, who doesn't leave Lily alone despite how she multiple times rejects him.
I just think it's funny how no one talks about James' toxic behavior, yet have no problem bashing Snape. Just to be clear, I am not excusing any of Snape's other behaviors/problems (just as I'm not excusing James for what he has done). Neither of them are saints, and I guess that's what makes them both such interesting characters. Also, as a person interested in psychology, I am so curious about James and how he got from being a bully to becoming a decent person (if you trust what his friends say - we do not know if they're biased and/or painting James in a better light). Snape is also so interesting to analyze and he's definitely one of my favorite characters of all time!
I thought the same, it's also interesting that in the whole debate between Snape or James nobody says anything about Lily dating the bully who tortured his friend all his childhood, I always found that sick even if they justify it with the fact that James " matured as a person"
The way James is written in that scene, although I understand what she who must not be named was trying to do by gaining sympathy for Snape, just doesn't make any sense at all given what literally everyone else has said about James. He is a stalker and sexually assaults Snape and it isn't at all like Draco and Harry's rivalry its just James and Sirius bullying snape. And WHY would Lily ever go out with James? it doesn't make any sense and what Lupin and Sirius have to say about it makes no sense either. James became an animagus illegally for his friend, took in Sirius who was being abused, saved Snape from Werewolf!Lupin. These actions so not align at all with what we see in the memory. James being arrogant makes some sense as a character flaw but in that memory he is just plain nasty and not at all someone I can see Lily being friends with let alone marrying! I don't care if he was 14/15. No one changes that much especially when some of the actions I've mentioned before took place around then/ before that. It makes no sense to me and ruins the continuity for me entirely considering he died when he was just 21. Also I have sympathy for film Snape but I will never forgive him for how he treats Neville in the books.
I think though in the books and movies you are watching it through Snape's perspective so that memory is also biased in a way FOR Snape. We also know he uses dark magic on other people because Lily says so in one of his OWN memories. She even says it's not just that he lashed out at her in a moment of humiliation, it's that he bullies/hates other people like her and just makes an exception for her - so she does not appreciate his behavior as a whole. I personally think that, reading between the lines of the memory from Snape's perspective here AND in the seventh book, he WAS a bully to other people even when he was a kid - he just picks on people he thinks are weaker than him and James isn't that sort of victim. James is awful yes, and as someone who was heavily bullied I hate bullies so I wouldn't give James a free pass, but James doesn't seem evil in a way that is equivalent to Snape and his classmates and their foray into dark magic and bigotry. And honestly since we're looking at James through Snape's perspective at this point I would use the idea that "if you trust what is friends say..." to say Snape could have been heavily bullying the marauders as well - but that's certainly not going to show up if Snape think of himself as a victim in his memories. I don't trust Snape because of the behavior he shows and the behavior his friends have called him out for even in his own memories. James' friends admit their bad traits which shows at least a little more self-awareness than Snape so I do believe their assertions that James wasn't as bad and that he was a decent person. Also while the marauders escalate things for sure, Snape has initiated fights on his own without them bothering him. I can quote the specific passages below if you're interested in looking at them. I think this debate is one of the most interesting facets of the HP series and I love hearing people passionately dissect things the way we all are here.
@@mc720 How in the heck would teen Snape, who was always alone and had no support from other kids, have ever managed to bully the Marauders, who were a whole group, also knew magic, and most of them physically stronger than Severus Snape?? No.
Yes, Snape's memories are subjective, but that doesnt make them false. Sirius Black's and Remus Lupin's memories of James are likewise subjective and skewed by the fact they idolized James.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog Ummm it's literally written in the books it's not my opinion so it's not really a yes or no question. He uses sectumsempra and dark magic and the marauder's weren't together all the time - it specifically says he cursed James, not everyone. Also Snape was friends with other slytherins (Mulicber, Lucius, etc.) and Lily says they gang up on people together so it's not impossible. Also Sirius and Remus clearly didn't idolize James because they call him arrogant, a jerk, annoying, and etc. throughout the books which is far more realistic and grey than the black and white views a lot of other people (including Harry mind you) seem to have.
In his very last moments, he got to look into Lily’s eyes.
And show his true self.
12:55, there is some evidence from the books to justify that. In Book 5, Harry breaks into Snape’s memory and sees Snape as a child crying with his mother across the room cowering while being berated by Snape’s father.
I was going to say something about this; that was my inference as well, that there was abuse (or at lest neglect) going on at home.
That could be why he hates mudbloods so much, it’s a self loathing since he is one himself. Kind of like when homophobes end up being gay but terrified of it. It’s still wrong and he could have surrounded himself with better people but it is a bit more understandable.
I never got to read all the books, but this makes sense to me..from my own personal experience.
I wish that you hadn’t ghosted over his childhood and the home life that he experienced.
Snape is such a complex and intriguing character that people love to debate, but his story, while fictional, holds true for so many people who grew up to be like Snape.
The trauma done to his brain in his early years, experiencing the violence in his home from a father who, at minimum verbally abused his mother and child often, and at most was so terrifying that he kept a capable and otherwise respected witch from using her magic to keep her and her child safe - that trauma changes the brain. It’s so much more than just Lily being the only person to show him kindness, or his only friend until Dumbledore - I would honestly argue that Dumbledore was never his friend, Dumbledore used and manipulated him as he did everyone.
Snape endured a toxic, unhealthy, abusive home life, then came to school and endured further bullying and harassment, to the point that he was nearly murdered by a fellow student, and in response was told to keep quiet about it while his bullies received no real consequences - Sirius, at minimum, should have been expelled.
Cut to Lily’s death, when he had nothing to live for but penance and revenge, forced by Dumbledore to teach in a school that he likely never wanted to step foot in again (nor honestly teach at all)? Yes, he bullies children. Ignoring the simplest of facts that bullied people become bullies, he spent the majority of his adult life in grief, rage, and despondence. He wanted the DADA position each year *because* it was cursed and it would mean he would have to leave the school. Yeah, he wasn’t nice. He was a dick. But if anyone had a reason to be, it’s him.
Snape needed therapy. His parents needed therapy. Sooooo many people in the books (and movies) needed therapy.
I appreciate that you addressed the fact that his love for Lily was not obsessive or unhealthy. Lily loving someone else doesn’t negate his feelings, and - as you said - he never tried to interfere in their lives or marriage. The only thing he tried to do was keep her alive - that holds true for the books and the movies. He’s a hero in both, in my opinion. Not friendly, not kind, but neither of those are required to be a hero.
this, so much this!
That comment needs more attention! Wow, so true
I wanted to say all of that too, but you wrote it. Thanks!
Thank you. Yes, this comment says it all.
Clear to the point👌
I think the last line that Harry speaks in the book says it all. "He was the bravest man I ever knew".
That is what makes him a hero.
Well said. For me he was a hero.
I connected the dots after re-reading The Half-blood Prince for couple times, that Snape is lying to Narcisa and Bellatrix in the first chapter. He mentioned to them, that Dumbledore had injured his hand in the fuel with Voldemort. But towards the end of the book 6 we find out, Snape knew that it was a curse, that injured Dumbledore, as he was curing it straight after.
I realized he wasn't Voldemort's man.
One generally unnoticed aspect of Snape is that when he casts Avada Kedavra it’s a bright blue instead of the green that it usually is.
That probably means that his heart wasn’t in it and that the curse failed because as Bellatrix said “you have to mean it,” Snape couldn’t bring himself to mean it, and Dumbledore knew that.
I think what it is about Alan Rickman, is he has an amazing ability to express what needs to be said with his micro-expressions. He knows whatever his character is supposed to be thinking and feeling and it really comes through in his fleeting micros, and his dramatic well timed dramatic pauses.
RIP 😔
Here's my thoughts on the baby Harry and Snape crying over Lily scene.... obviously, it's super sad, but what's saddest to me is not just the fact that they both lost her, but that neither one of them will be comforted. Baby Harry, because nobody's holding him and making him feel safe, and Snape because he refuses to share his grief with Harry.
Thank you for pointing that out. I've seen some people say that he should've held Harry instead of Lily, but I think this not only makes for a more powerful image, but a tragic idea as well.
Wow, that's deep. Profoundly astute.
Fanfic where Severus picks up Harry instead of Lily. One little choice. One deviation. A sprawling new world of possibilities.
Yessss!!!! Somebody please write that!
Yeah, I saw that too, but then, what if had done that? Maybe his love was so big that he knew he was going to love Harry too, therefore make him weak to face Voldemort? How’s the scene played out in the book? Don’t remember…
Honestly I would not say he is just a villain or only a hero, he is both and through Alan Rickman we see the most human version of Snape.
Movie Snape is leagues better of a human being than Book Snape, and infinitely more sympathetic. That is in no small part due to Alan Rickman.
In the movie, he's a hero. In the book, he's a villain. In both, Snape is a human doing what he thinks is right.
No one understood Severus more than Alan Rickman and he talked about the character and his thoughts in an interview and that made me straight up sobbed, I reread all the books keeping Alan Rickman's image in my head and I'm telling you this, it was a experience, I recommend potterheads to do it because you'll find so many layers and perspective doing this and you'll not regret doing it
As much as the entire memory sequence in Deathly Hallows Part II makes me cry, I always cry hardest when Lily speaks to Harry in his crib. Those moments between mothers and their children are always the ones to make me the saddest, I think because I’ve always been a mama’s girl and I’ve always had a great love for children. Another example: In Downton Abbey, it was Cora’s reaction to Sybil’s death that hit me the hardest, not Tom’s.
I know alot of kids ABUSED by their Mothers. The Mothers called their physical, verbal and emotional abuse "Love" - their kids KNOW different!
@@michaelodonnell824 Why say that on this point, when they already said they are heavily affected by those sad scenes between mother and child? You're not even on the same topic.
@Catherine Ginn same here, instant tears when I hear Lily whisper “mama loves you” 😭 ugh it hits all my weak points
Same. I wasn't happy about how they implemented the memory sequence (I'm just too much of a book nerd :P)
But when Lily was like: "Harry, Mama loves you. Dada loves you." I actually cried.
I still remember Cora in that scene.
I remember the moment I heard Alan Rickman had died. I was at school. I just sat there and sobbed in public. There was just something irreplaceable about him. He was incredible in everything he did. I love him as Captain Brandon in Sense and Sensibility. He was not the way the character was described but I think Jane Austen herself couldn't have picked a better actor for the role.
Amen!!!
All of this
I would love to see you guys look at Dumbledore. I totally forgot about that part, when Snape asks him to protect the Potters, and he asks "What will you do for me in return?" That's awful. And I would love ya'lls take on it
I second that
Its not awful because snape sold them out to voldemort in the first place and dumbeldore wanted to defeat Voldemort
Well, Dumbledore gave him a chance to change that horrid DeathEater-task-filled life and put it to good use.
He never made Snape lick the floor or dance in his underwear (at least, not outside fanfictions) so being a teacher and protecting Harry is not an awful task.
Snape had a miserable, empty life with no purpose and he was ready to take his own life sooner or later, when Lily died.
Dumbledore asked him a favour, that's not a weird thing.
Snape even called Lily, Lily Potter in the books in the flashbacks, it was definitely not an unhealthy obsession, she was just the first person in his life to show him affection and he loved her for that
then isn't it weird Lily ended up w/ James since he was a bully?
@@oooh19 Yeah, he WAS a bully. People can change yk. It's canon that he changed. And technically it's not weird because Snape himself was bully, not only as an adult but even in childhood. It's written that he hung out with Mulciber and Avery who bullied kids using dark magic and Snape defended them saying it was no big deal and just for fun. It's also written that he went around calling all muggleborn who weren't Lily mudbloods.
@@anyabajaj07 Did she ever try to stop the bullying?
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 yeah, she did.
This is an excerpt from Deathly Hallows chapter 33
“…thought we were supposed to be friends,” Snape was saying. “Best friends?”
“We are Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging out with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him Sev, he’s creepy! Do you know what he tried to do to Mary MacDonald the other day?”
Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face.
“That was nothing,” said Snape. “It was a laugh, that’s all…”
“It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny…”
[…]
"...I never meant to call you Mudblood, it just…"
"Slipped out?" There was no pity in Lily's voice. "It's too late. I've made excuses for you for years. None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you. You and your precious little Death Eater friends-you see, you don't even deny it! You don't even deny that's what you're all aiming to be! You can't wait to join You-Know-Who, can you?"
He opened his mouth, but closed it without speaking.
"I can't pretend anymore. You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine."
"No-listen, I didn't mean…"
"…to call me Mudblood? But you call EVERYONE of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?"
@@anyabajaj07 This sounds like Lily having a go at Snape, not stopping Harry's father from abusing him. I'm not familiar with Harry Potter, am I wrong?
Snape is one of the most interesting characters ever written. He's an absolute jerk, abusive, vindictive and unforgiving, but he's a hero in that he sacrificed so much and put himself in danger for the benefit of others. He's not evil, he's just mean. I can't think of many other heros that are jerks without the secret "heart of gold" troupe to redeem them.
no he is awful to someone because they look like his rival and an innocent child with insane parents thats evil.
“He’s not evil, he’s just mean.” - what a perfect way to put it! He’s an abusive jerk and a hero at the same time. It doesn’t really have to be an either/or…
I ALWAYS cry with Snape's death. Alan made an amazing job in that one (in all of them but that one just breaks my heart all the time). I miss him so much
Me too
i cried at this video just thinking about it lol
I've never read the books. My entire experience has been through the lens of the movies. That's likely why I feel so much for Snape's arc, and his confession to Harry later in the series. "Always" will forever choke me up. Here's why:
I come from an abusive home, fell in love with a gorgeous redhead in my 20s, and finally earned her love in return in my 30s. We've been married now for 22 years. She is now and forever, my "Lily". Despite struggling when helping her raise her son (from a previous marriage) from behavioural issues, he and I have finally grown to respect each other.
RIP, Mr. Rickman. You are missed. Always.
I think Alan Rickman was the one and only actor who could've not only played Snape but also made us shead a tear for him
would love to see a hp ep where you take a look at the sorting hat and how sorting the students based on their personalities could affect their development, and how the rivalries could do the same
THIS, I always felt it was royally messed up
hell, even just the act of separating students is (likely) harmful
I was heartbroken when Snape died in the movies, but in the books it seemed that death was something he'd wanted himself, so I couldn't be too sad about it. I did have empathy for Snape, since he was bullied by Slytherins for being a half-blood, and then again by the other houses for being a Slytherin. He came from an abusive home (its canon in the books), and his clothes and appearence reflected that of a child who'd experienced neglect. So of course, he was a little possessive over the one person who never treated him any less; Lily.
I abolsutely DEPLORED the Marauders, and honestly, I can't bring myself to like them at all. They were bullies - plain and simple. They sexually shamed an already abused child, and made it out as though his 'sleazy' self justified the bullying. They get up on their high-horse about using the term 'mudblood', but treated Lily as a commodity to be 'won'. Ironically, in the books there is a scene where Death-eaters bully several muggles by turning them upside down in the air, like what James did to Severus (except he also took off Snape's pants to humiliate him further). At that moment, Harry finds the Death-eaters disgusting, and yet, he forgets about it so easily when he sees it being done to Snape.
In the end, Snape makes Harry look him in the eyes, so he could at least convince himself in his last moments of his horrible life, that the one person who cared about him whole-heartedly, was still there beside him. While it doesn't excuse his own abusive behaviour, I really can't bring myself to hate him.
OOPS - wrote an essay.
A very insightful essay.
He doesn't "forget about it so easily when he sees it being done to Snape" -- at least not in the book. He's actually extremely upset about seeing his father as a bully, and doesn't calm down for *days*. He takes a huge risk to contact Sirius and Remu to interrogate them about this, and it takes some doing for them to get him to calm down. When the scene emerges again in the Prince's Tale, Harry keeps his distance, not wishing to view the bullying again. I genuinely don't recall how it's played out in the Order of the Phoenix movie.
@@ugolomb that is true - I did hate tho how Remus and Sirius tried to brush it off in the books; in the movies, I don't think Harry interrogates them however. He just seems really uncomfortable abt it
@@2degucitas hahaha glad u think so :D
@@O-Demi exactly - a human with a human response to trauma. Snape could've at least had a peaceful time at Hogwarts even if his home life was crap, but the Marauders didn't allow for that. It must've been hard for Snape to see the face of the man who made his life at school hell, with the eyes of the woman who was his only sanctuary.
I think Snape is neither hero or villain, he's simply human. Complex, morally grey, and prejudiced. Just a masterfully written character who, in the very end, chose to see the good in the world by seeing Lily in Harry.
Exactly. He's my favorite character in HP because I think, Snape, as a character, is very interesting, complex, and well-thought.
The fact people fight over whether Snape was a hero or villain is a testament to that
This. He is probably the best written character in the series. At least in terms of what a 'real' person feels like. Few people are wholly good or wholly bad. We all have character flaws. Most of us I am sure have said hurtful things in our lives. Maybe we're not the bully at school, but how do we treat our siblings? Maybe we love our children but how do we treat our co-workers? Snape's redemption does not excuse his actions. He did however sacrifice himself in the end for the greater good. I would personally say he falls a little more on the hero side than the villain mainly because Dumbledore would have been screwed if Snape sold him out. . .
He's also a real example of what years of trauma does to a person with no help. Sometimes it leads people to make bad decisions and sometimes it leads people to make good decisions. And that's Snape.
"Morally grey and prejudiced" should be a condemnation, not an excuse to handwave behavior away because someone is "simply human."
When it came to Dumbledore’s death scene, I also thought the book version was him begging for Snape to not do it, at least until the last book was released. I’m glad that the movie went the route of “if you read all of the books, you can pick up his TRUE meaning behind the ‘please’.” It made the scene’s meaning transform when you rewatch the series.
To me it felt like - in the last moments of his life Snape wanted to see Lilly. Or atleast a part of her, which is Harry's eyes.
I think it's rather beautiful what Jono said about how he hated and was mean to Harry for the whole time he was alive because he looked like James and then when he was finally going to be at peace and he didn't have to be used anymore by anyone, he finally realizes that Lily was always there too. Especially when Harry tries to help him as he's dying, even though Snape has been a jerk up until that point, Harry sees beyond (thanks to the HBP book and even the accidental look into Snape's mind about his dad's bullying) and tries to do something.
I believe that Snape is actually suffering incredibly high levels of stress, simply knowing that he can never reveal himself to Harry, the son of his lost love. Could this maybe compound the appearance of hatred - love and hate are closely related, after all; passion (isn't it said that you have to have loved someone to hate them?).
I truly love the way Rickman portrayed the multifaceted character of Snape - truly exquisite, the best actor for the best role.
Guys, this has probably been your best review so far.
But he wasn’t just awful to Harry, he was awful to most of his students. Just a bully to all these literal children and for what purpose?
@@Jellybeansatdusk - True, but perhaps abuse begets abuse. Maybe he simply can't help himself in that respect. I find it difficult to not rise to certain baits; something from my childhood. Let's face it, Snape is a complex character, we couldn't really have it any other way for the story. Such complexity simply adds to the narrative.
@@pw.70 yeah there is definitely a cycle of abuse and learned behaviors, but that isn’t an excuse. He still has free will, he has the ability to grow and change and be better than the people who have hurt them. It’s tempting to do the easy thing, take your anger out on someone who is helpless or reminds you of past hurt, but that doesn’t mean your actions are justified. You can understand why someone does what they do while still holding them accountable for their actions. I find this is the case with Snape. I see how his past has influenced the person he has become, but I also see all the other paths he had and did not take, the choices he made for himself and their logical consequences. He did the right thing in the end, maybe for the wrong reasons, and that is admirable to me because it shows that it’s never too late to turn your life around. Still, having one heroic moment at the end (or many unseen good deeds, as is the case with Snape) doesn’t reverse the damage from the ways you’ve harmed others.
@@Jellybeansatdusk - I agree. Sadly, it does sometimes depend on the hurt suffered, and even the strength of character as to how soon or even *if* you can overcome such abuse. 'Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man.'...
@@Jellybeansatdusk He was a double agent for two of the most powerful wizards. He told Dumbledore no one can know. Dumbledore responds not reveal the best of you Severus? He had to be cold, aloof, harsh and even mean at times to keep everyone from getting close to him. Any one close to Snape would be in danger, that had to be avoided at all costs. He couldn't even save Charity Burbage at Malfoy Manor when she was tortured and killed right in front of him, and she was more a colleague than a close friend, but even so, how horrible that must have been for him to not be able to do anything for her, without revealing his true self? That's one of the hardest things in life...to not be able to be your real and true self. Snape had to do that every single day.
I think “Antihero” describes snape pretty well, in the movies at least. A hero in the end, but unconventionally so and is far from moral purity.
I agree
The one thing that keeps Snape's issue from devolving into obsession is the fact that he NEVER ONCE tried to split up James and Lily, he allowed them to go about their lives without fucking things up for them. granted having a constant voyeuristic aspect to it is really creepy and it's actually painful to think about how he NEVER moved on....we see the shit like Fatal Attraction and Sleeping with the Enemy where the dumped lover actually tries to destroy your life just because you didn't pick them, and the fact that Snape had the resources to do so as a double agent who could have gone rogue made that a VERY dark possibility that he never once thought about taking advantage of. His behavior is still toxic, don't get me wrong. I mean hell, he was a complete asshole to Harry his entire life because he had unresolved issues with James that he never got to confront, but he takes it out on this kid who is literally sucked into an apocalyptic war that he never signed up for. He was protecting the embodiment and the offspring of the guy who relentlessly bullied him in school, and he exploited every moment he could to make sure Harry knew he's being treated this way because his dad was an asshole. He had unresolved issues that boiled over and he never got a chance to resolve them. I also think he did this because he didn't want to get too attached to Harry because in the end of all of this, it was a VERY real possibility that everyone fighting Voldemort could end up dead. In Snape's Case, that was true, which is why he made sure that in his dying moments, Harry had the resources to learn the truth, and got one last look at his "mother's eyes". In conclusion, he could have gone the way of a rejected stalker with magic and a cult of murderers at his back, but he didn't. Does that make him a hero? No, but it definitely makes sure that he cannot be called a monster. Just because someone has toxic traits, doesn't make them a bad person. Just means they need help and accountability. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Indeed. Severus Snape, in the films at the very least, was a good person who happened into a terrible life, had clear emotional issues without any way to get help with them, and ended up being groomed into a murderous cult.
In spite of that, he carried hsi first love in his heart for the entirety of his life, never betraying her or her memory. He definitely mistreated Harry for being James's son, but also surely protected him and grew to care for him, as he knew deep down that he was very much like his mother, the only love Snape ever knew.
Snape is a tragic character. Certainly not a pure villain or hero, but likely could be considered an anti-hero. He did terrible things, many times, but did evil for the greater good, in the end. Many heroes fall into inaction so as to not do evil deeds, since they don't generally see the ends as justification for the means. Anti-heroes like Snape certainly will consider the means being worth it for the ends.
It's really painful knowing that he basically only seemed to care for 3 people, and 2 of him died directly because of him. Lily died because of him, and he had to kill the only friend he'd ever had afterward in order to protect Draco.
At the very least, he got the chance to sorta redeem himself to Harry a bit in his dying moments.
Alan Rickman is also a large part of why the character, at least in the movies, is so good. He absolutely *nailed* every delivery of lines and every single expression in acute detail. RIP Severus Snape, and RIP Alan Rickman. You and your character will be remembered forever.
Except he led the death eaters to his family in which he hoping only Lily survives, but turn out only Harry lived.
I meant snape led D.E to james family.
Here's the thing though, we DON'T know that Snape didn't try to break Lily and James up. We see a collection of his memories that were selected to tell Harry Snape's story how he sees it. Lily and James got together while they were still teenagers and Snape skips from his apology about the mudblood thing to being an adult begging for Lily's life. Anything could have happened in Hogwarts including multiple scenes where he tried to split Lily and James and further the wedge in their already broken friendship. Sirius and Remus admit that James still cursed Snape after he got with Lily, it's very likely Snape tried something, got cursed for it, and then Snape ran with it to try and split them up.
@Stephanie Clark well has it been explained in either the book or the movie? No. What we don't know, we can't prove. I deal in facts not speculations.
Personally, the one thing that can't redeem him is his treatment of Neville in both the books and the movies. That a student's worst fear is a teacher is simply terrible
In Book 5, when Harry takes the Potions examination and is invigilated by people who aren’t Snape he’s surprised to find he does a good job because he doesn’t have Snape breathing down his neck waiting for him to fail
I wonder if part of why he mistreated Neville so much was because he could've been chosen instead. So he hated that reminder that Lily could've been saved if Voldemort had went with Neville instead of Harry.
@@margaretmclaren4685 Maybe. Though he was also mean to Hermione. “I see no difference”.
@@margaretmclaren4685 sure, I actually think that's the reason. Still evil to do mentally tourture a fricking kid
That a students worst fear is a teacher is actually pretty normal for a private British boarding school…
I appreciate you separating book!Snape from movie!Snape as well as noting that Snape likely fell in with the Death Eaters for ironically the same reason he fell for Lily. While I hate making excuses for someone's bad behavior, I always feel the need to point out that student!Snape was an extremely vulnerable kid that was sorted into what was essentially a breeding ground for dark wizards even back then.
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Also, on your point about how Snape wasn't obsessed with Lily since he never tried to possess her or sabotage her relationship with James, I think that's doubly true when you consider how much of a stab in the heart it had to have been for him to see her with the guy that tormented him in school.
That's part of why the Sorting kind of fascinates me. I was big into HP as a kid but never really considered myself a fan into adulthood. I revisited the books fairly recently (which was interesting in its own way because right in the middle of it some...stuff with the author happened. I'll leave it at that) and I found I had a lot of problems with the series. And a big one was that there's this sort of lukewarm admission that the Sorting is kind of bad but there's really no actual reckoning with that fact. And by the final battle the entirety of Slytherin are shuffled away because they can't be trusted. Anyway Trans rights are human rights
@@jacksonreynolds7433 I remember an HP Lego set where the Sorting Hat was basically a roulette wheel. Hits the nail on the hat if you ask me. Joking aside, I'm more in the camp of thinking the Hat wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for Slytherin being a thing and guaranteeing that 1/4 of the school are a bunch of racist bigots.
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As for Rowling, I frankly try to avoid talking about her and focus purely on the merits and misses of the books themselves since just bringing her up seems to put the whole discussion in a bad light.
It's been awhile since I read the books, but from what I remember, there was little to no perspective other than Harry's. So everything we see and experience, we understand through HARRY'S perspective. Because Harry is - understandably so - very biased against Snape from the beginning, I think it makes sense that we don't see the minutiae in Snape's expressions in the books. Harry has been bullied his entire life with the Dursleys; Snape would look no different to him. The human Snape - very flawed but not evil version - is a bit harder to see in the books, because they are from the perspective of a bullied child.
Right, but Snape wasn’t just cruel to Harry because of James (which in itself isn’t excusable), he also tormented Neville and a number of other children. What purpose could that possibly serve? What past damage could possibly justify terrorizing children to the point where you are the thing they fear most in the entire world? I understand where he came from, but I would understand if any of them could not forgive him. Doing one good thing doesn’t excuse years of harassment and manipulation.
I feel bad for him, of course, but mainly I feel bad for the fact that he let his pain cloud his judgement and became the cruel person he spent years trying to hide from, to even the girl he “loved” most in the world.
@@Jellybeansatdusk I agree that Snape was cruel and probably could have laid off more than he did. I've heard some theorize that he did that to maintain his image in front of the children of Death Eaters who may report any Griffindor sympathies to their parents/Voldemort. I'm not sure I'm convinced by this, though I suppose it isn't outside the realm of possibility.
And I agree the children had a right to never forgive him if they so chose. The tricky thing is that we only see glimpses into his mind, so his motivations behind each individual action isn't always clear. Maybe he was being cruel to protect them from something worse, or maybe he was grasping power wherever he could find it. Who knows?
Tom Riddle, Snape, and Harry are often paralleled: they all came from lonely and cruel places but took different paths in response. Riddle goes homicidal revolutionary, Snape is a guilt-ridden turncoat and a cruel teacher, and Harry, despite everything he goes through, sacrifices himself to save everyone time and again. They came out of it in completely different ways. The ones broken and twisted by their struggles are the saddest cases in "Harry Potter," I think.
@@samanthacrews620 But the only glimpses we see into Snape's mind are of his own memories so wouldn't those also be biased? There is never a situation without bias so while yes Harry is biased against him by the last few books, it's A. due to Snape's own behavior (The maruaders were never around to put those biases in his head) and B. anything we see from Snape is going to be heavily biased FOR Snape.
@@mc720 To that point, any memory we see from one person's perspective will always be biased in their own favor. How could it be anything else? I think my greatest point in this, is that Snape is a relatable character because he is flawed and multifaceted. If a person discovers the cure for cancer but cheats on their partner, are they a good or bad person? We all go through things and how we respond to those things determines who we are. Snape had a terrible childhood, and he responded to it with decisions he later regretted (namely losing Lily). He was cruel to children, but he also protected them from an arguably greater harm. In the first half of the books, we see only the bad. In the last couple, we see some of his depth as a character appear, because Harry is given a glimpse into Snape's perspective.
I love Snape's character, because he doesn't fit the mold of good or evil, because he makes blatant mistakes and works to fix them in his own flawed way. This isn't to condone his behavior, just to acknowledge his character in its entirety.
@@samanthacrews620 Yes, but to your initial point, Harry didn't start biased against Snape until Snape's own actions showed his character to Harry. Harry knew nothing of Snape before Hogwarts. I personally don't that Snape is equally good and bad - he is grey but greyness is a spectrum and he veers towards really bad actions and reasoning even though he is redeemed by his positive actions, especially with the level of danger they entailed. But to say that Snape might have actually been better and we don't see him as an objective character in the books is the point I find interesting (and not something I necessarily disagree with). Just to say there would never be an objective look at him. The good things we see about Snape are from his own memories so by the same token his "flawed not evil" view could be highly exaggerated in the opposite way. I don't disagree that he is a complex, flawed character. I'm interested to see how people consume media - a lot of (other) people go the opposite route and declare Snape a hero because they may be overcorrecting and I don't disagree with your entire statement. Like I said, I personally don't think his greyness is an even split, however, for his bad actions were far worse than the equivalency you produced and his good actions not quite as shining and pure. But as someone who reads the books many times over, in answer to your question of how Snape is portrayed it's not so simple as completely biased from Harry which brings up an interesting discussion. His good moments were shown through a highly biased lens of his own making. In many ways this probably balances out the unreasonable things Harry grows to think of Snape - but it's important to note that Snape chose the path that led to Harry's hatred of him, it wasn't innate, and the things that are positively shown about him may be equally blown out of proportion.
This really changed my perspective of Snape. I grew up reading and rereading the books all the time, and couldn't understand why so many people completely forgave Snape just because he loved Lily. He was horrendous not only to Harry but Neville and anyone else he could pick on, and showed favoritism to everyone in his house. Him loving Lily never justified any of his horrible behavior to me. Watching this now, I realize I was looking so hard at the book Snape that I didn't realize how different the movie Snape was made to be, and it seems as though thats the portrayal that everyone sympathized with and forgave. Very interesting to see
Very interesting point. The films really didn't reasonated with me, but I always joke that I'll never forgive Alan Rickman for making Snape so likeable.
As someone who has worked as an educator, the way book Snape treated his students (not just Harry) is absolutely inexcusable. As far as I'm concerned, he didn't truly love Lily. And I found his death scene, requesting to see "Lily's eyes" profoundly creepy.
@@user-dc4nj3bv2lIt’s true that some people have that mentality, but science tells us otherwise. How Snape treats his students is an abuse of power and child abuse. It’s much harder for a child to learn when they feel unsafe. He was a 13-year-old’s greatest fear. Do you have any actual proof of this sort of environment being better for children that isn’t anecdotal?
And honestly? It doesn’t read like tough love, it reads like a grown *ss adult taking out his bitterness and resentment about his own life on innocent children.
“He didn’t want his students living the same way he had to.” I’m really confused with this one. You’re saying he bullied them so that they wouldn’t be bullied? That he, an adult in a position of authority (teacher), was cruel to them so that he wouldn’t suffer the way he did when an adult in a position of authority (his father) was cruel to him? He didn’t want them to feel marginalised by their peers so he humiliated them in front of their peers, thereby both giving their peers ammunition to use against them and signalling that it’s acceptable to treat people that way? I’m sorry, but the math isn’t mathing here.
@@theEumenidesAgreed on him not loving Lily. He clearly felt something for her, but I don’t think it was love. The point about him not trying to sabotage her relationship with James was interesting, but to me it almost looks like a martyrdom thing. It might have the same end result, but the possibility that he let her go because it was ingrained in his world view that life is unfair and everyone is terrible woe is me feels more likely than “I truly love her and I want her to be happy.”
Or, if I entertain the idea that he did love her for the sake of argument, what I’m left with is that his hatred for James was more important to him than his love for Lily. It’s the only way to explain how he treats Harry. And the scene where he cradles her body while Harry cries in the background? Yes, we are seeing that they both lost her. It makes sense that Snape is grieving and gutted by her death. But we’re also seeing him completely ignore a terrified, crying child and that’s always bothered me.
I’ve joked that Snape’s biggest redeeming quality is being portrayed by Alan Rickman so yep on that too.
@@hbicolenna6745 word "love" can be described very different and meaning depends on who you ask. For example, i would describe (short version) that word "love" means extremely deep care about another person. And that fillings "clicks" because of my personal definition of "perfect person" + of course sexual attraction matters. And true, real love is permanent for rest of my life. No question.
Of course i understand that the person that i love isn't perfect. But after that "click" it doesn't matter at all. I just want that person was save and happy. And I don't care about anything else. If ill manage to end up be with loved one, i would be happy. Of i wouldn't, ok. I would be 2 step's behind and help when i needed. But i know for sure that its impossible to "move on". I will not even try. For my own mental health, and more importantly, for another person, who can like me, or even develope deep filings (or "love" in more "standard" meaning, or in worst scenario in my definition of "love") towards me. In the end, i would just broke someone heart, coz i would never truly care about. I can imitate. And im sure that my imitation can last decades and i would be batter that majority of people, seeing and knowing how bad in relationship they are. But i would never can be able to tell from the bottom of my heart to someone "i love you" And personally i can "feel" "fake" fillings towards me. And it such bad experience. I didn't want to do it others, especially if they would have fillings towards me.
So with honest look, and probably most of the people will agree, that my definition of "love" ±= "obsession". But in my case i didn't consider it bad. I fully aware of my fillings and im responsible toward all people. And this "obsession", imho, is much more batter for all, then mess around with myself and others trying "move on" like most people recommend. Definitely will not work for me.
@@hbicolenna6745 i see lots of things in Snape's actions that i would never do in his place. But if i ended up lost my loved one, i would definitely didn't care (if it's not treating their lives) about Harry or anyone else. Yeah, crying baby is not good, but what should Snape do when he find Lily dead, especially because of him? He lost only one person in his life he truly cares about. So in that moment its logical that crying Harry for him is just background noise that doesn't even bother him. I cant see that he calmly goes to Harry to calm him down. And that scene didn't mean that he is not love Lily. It shows that he is. And his love have nothing to do with Harry at that point. It may be bad towards Harry, but definitely realistic showcase. And that scene definitely isn't illustrates that he is Not loving her.
At one point, the filmmakers were trying to fit Daniel with "green contact lenses" but he was having allergic reactions, so the producers went to Rowling and said, "How important is it that he has Green eyes?"
Rowling's answer was, "Well, the IMPORTANT thing is that the eyes look like his mother's, so whomever you cast as Lily, if there's a resemblance, that should be fine."
And they still failed, lol
@@auguststratton4925Haha no.
@@Witchyrose2349Haha yes. They both have different eye colors in the movie. Lilly has brown eyes, and Harry has blue ones. This is a total failure.
@@_Cysticercosis_Young Lily has brown eyes, true. But adult Lily has the same color as Harry, grey.
Excellent series as always. However, I would like to make the argument that Snape is an anti-hero. He did things that would be considered “for the good of the many” though not (always) the right reason.
His friendship with Lily was one of the only good things he had/enjoyed. She (for the most part) brought out the good in him, however little there was in him. It is through Lily that he does good things and with the adult Snape, it started when he went to seek Dumbledore on his own to tell Dumbledore what he’d seen and it was to protect Lily. Not Harry. And definitely not James. Just Lily and whoever else happened to be collaterally saved. Nevertheless, he continued to do morally grey as well as morally bad things to serve that purpose. Saving Lily. It is to Snape’s credit that he didn’t fall off the deep end when he lost that purpose and lost Lily for good. Yes, I agree that Snape didn’t get in between James and Lily’s romance but he did try (as all kids may try by trying to convince their crush that the person they have a crush on is the worst person) but his need to belong landed him more squarely with the Deatheaters and that was what placed the rift between Snape and Lily. Again, to Snape’s credit, it was one he realised he couldn’t cross… at least not without cutting off the Deatheaters that gave him some sense of belonging in the first place. (I don’t think Lily, being as young as she was previously and also learning to grow into herself as a person, could’ve given that to Snape. They were 2 different people with completely different mindsets and goals and probably would’ve grown apart.)
After Lily, it was Dumbledore’s influence that fostered that “goodness”. Dumbledore’s genuine trust and friendship gave Snape the sense of belonging he longed for and it was enough for him to cut off his “fondness” for the Deatheaters. These were 2 people who were very capable of doing what needed to be done, irregardless of it being “good” or “bad” and whose goals somewhat aligned, Dumbledore wanted to save the world from Voldemort and Snape wanted to preserve what was left of Lily, Harry, who was seen by many (including Voldemort himself) as the only one that could stop Voldermort. I believe it was as their friendship grew that Snape’s goal became more aligned with Dumbledore’s as he started to see the world as Dumbledore did, from a bird’s eye view (and vice versa, Snape taught/reminded Dumbledore to keep track of the smaller things, the individual and person rather than just their use, which explains Dumbledore’s carelessness with Harry at times). And then, whether action bred emotion or the other way round, Snape learnt to care for another person…. Draco. He did what he had to, saving Draco as well as releasing his friend from the pain of his curse and preventing Voldermort gaining another advantage against Harry, while sacrificing the last few months he could’ve had with his friend. (I do not believe that Snape, in all his years as a Deatheater or pretending to be one, has never killed or tortured another or at least participated in the act in some way and so, was used to that.) It is near the end that Snape, both having learnt to see the bigger picture and wanting to fulfil his friend’s last wishes, decided that defeating Voldermort was the end goal. Not saving Harry’s life. Not preserving the person that Lily loved AND died to protect.
Nevertheless, being friends with Dumbledore didn’t magically turn him into a good person (just as good old Dumbledore is not so good himself so it turns out that Harry was both fooled by Severus AND Dumbledore) nor was he an evil person from the start. He was a person who was capable of doing morally reprehensible acts and was used to doing those acts that he saw nothing of people thinking him only capable of doing those acts and even preferred it. He wanted to still be able to play that role of villain and Deatheater because besides the “goodness” in him, there is also a part of him that is used to doing the “evil” thing and he never looked beyond himself to see the effects his actions had to others because he was focused on himself and his goals. He was to play the secret Deatheater double agent even as he was truly a triple agent for Dumbledore (and himself) and that was it.
I guess, in that sense, he’s a villain through and through because he’s only aim was to do what he wanted to accomplish. It just so happened that he wanted to accomplish was to defeat Voldermort, the person attempting to terrorise the world as well as the one who killed and is kinda responsible for the early deaths of the two dearest people in Snape’s life. Thus, he becomes an anti-hero. A person who did something good for the world though he himself not embodying traits that are stereotypically heroic or morally good.
Snape is not a good person. Nor, is he entirely a bad one. He is merely a human, as complex and confusing and self-contradictory as any human can be.
I love how this series highlights that humans and villains are really at heart, just “human” too and carry with them all the baggage that comes with it.
Awesome comment! I think we have the same view on that awesome character.
Something that sticks out to me is that Snape never wanted to be a teacher. The reason he's bad at it is because he never wanted to deal with kids. He was raised by an abusive muggle father, and bullied for being sallow even by the muggles who lived around him. Then he goes to school and is viciously bullied by the Marauders because they're bored and he's a Defense Against the Dark Arts nerd. Lily, the one person who shows him human kindness is disgusted by his friends and makes they're whole friendship conditional on him not hanging out with the death eaters. That's easy for Lily who is popular and kind so sees the situation in black and white, but for Snape, he can't find acceptance anywhere else. Then once he finally breaks away from the cult he was peer pressured into joining, he is forced by Dumbledore to stay at Hogwarts, a place of deep emotional trauma for him and teach kids. A job he NEVER wanted.
God….. just….. that scene where Harry’s parents are killed and Snape just cradling lily’s body gets me sobbing every time I watch it, and now it actually hits a lot harder since my dad is now in the hospital from a brain bleed this morning, god it still hurts my heart 😭 the acting in that specific movie was just an absolute masterpiece
You know, it is too bad that they only do movies. I would love too see a deep dive like this on a few other characters from TV, like Zuko from Last Airbender.
Or Amos Burton...
Or Stan Pines from Gravity Falls
@@coralroper6876 Ohhh.... that's a good one I never even considered before!
@@coralroper6876 That would be AMAZING!
There's a ton of good Zuko content out there, I don't even know if Jonno and Alan could add so much more to it
One thing I have never been able to get over about Snape is this: he never took responsibility for his anger and hatred for James. He only ever projected it onto Harry. Imagine seeing a child -- the child of the girl you're in love with, but still a child -- who's lost his parents, his wizarding family, and the whole wizarding world on top of that, and instead of choosing to be kind, choosing to be just as cruel as his father? It's not Snape's fault he was bullied, that he has trauma, and that he has anger, but at a certain point it becomes his responsibility to work through that and to make a choice to be good. That's my only problem with Snape. I think he was a hero in both the book and film, but he was never a good man in either. He was smart, and he was definitely brave, but not good. And that's okay--that's just how some people are. Actually one of the few useful things JKR has said about the books and films since the series ended is that "Snape is all grey". You can't really pull him into one catergory without redefining the category itself.
I haven't read the books, so I can only speak for the movies. But in the pensive scene, Dumbledore says to Snape: "he must never see your good side". That can be seen as Voldemort must think you're completely on his side. But it can also be seen as talking about Harry (or both). They knew Harry and Voldemort were linked and Dumbledore knew about the horcrux in Harry. So if Snape didn't treat Harry how Voldemort would want him to treat Harry (as enemy number 1), Voldemort could find out. And even begin to find out Snape was being a double agent, as he sporadically could access Harry's mind (including Harry's thoughts on Snape). Voldemort was gone, but Dumbledore told Snape he would be back. So they had to prepare for his return all way through. Including setting up the: "yeah, I hate Harry too" narrative.
Seeing Harry as a clone of James and taking that out on Harry, could be genuine... but it could also be a complete facade to fool Voldemort. (Who knew how he felt about Lily, since Snape pleaded to him to spare her. So imagine if he didn't pretend to see Harry as "all James and therefore I resent him"... what questions that would automatically bring up to Voldemort about his allegiance.) Doing such a good job at it that he fooled everyone else (except Dumbledore) too. It's a better lie because it's rooted in something that used to be true before Lily died (last time Voldemort checked, so to speak): his hatred/resentment towards James.
I love this
@@gaininsight3897 that’s an interesting take! I never really thought about it. If we go with the movies, then snape does seem less of a straight up asshole to Harry in light of that theory. However, I do still think he was incredibly bitter, for example exposing Remus as a werewolf just because he couldn’t get Sirius captured by the dementors. I know he must have hated Sirius because he thought he betrayed James and lily, but exposing Remus, playing into wizarding bigotry and hatred, and essentially casting Remus out onto the streets again, that was beyond cruel and shows he didn’t grow. I still think he wasn’t a good man because of things like that. Also, calling hermione an insufferable know it all? It was kind of funny in the movie bc Alan Rickman just does it so well, but if you stop to think about it, that’s the sort of thing teachers are supposed get into trouble for. Also it’s just straight up mean to belittle a 13 year old when you’re over 40. So yeah, small things like that.
@@gaininsight3897 for the movies, it might work; in the books, not at all
Yes he did. “Hide her. Hide them ALL. I beg of you.” Everything he did was to protect Lily even her family, including her son. Deep down he loved Harry that was clear at the very end of his life. He lost so much. He protected Harry even after Lily was long gone. Everyone can be an a** but we can’t truly know their hearts.
If someone says me that you can only watch 1 scene from all 8 movies,then I will definitely pick Snape's memories. The scene is so well acted,edited,composed and Shot and the Cinematography is so amazing. I really liked the scene and the Importance of this scene in the entire series is really huge. Alan Rickman nailed it,no one can do it better than him. I will choose movie Snape obviously
It's possible to stay in love with someone who is either no longer in your life or just doesn't love you back. That's how I interpret Snape's undying need for Lily. You don't choose whom you fall in love with, nor how long you love them for.
Amen.
I can vividly remember reading the books, hating Snape for deceiving Dumbledore and returning to The Dark Lord, then the tsunami of emotions as I read Snapes memories in the pensieve. Reading that scene, realizing he was actually a double agent, that everything he did was for Lily, Harry and Dumbledore. It changed my life, how I view challenging people, how I interact with others. It changed everything for me, completely opened my eyes to another way of thinking about bullies and people in general. This series is a true masterpiece.
It's interesting to notice that in Severus' memory in the scene of him first meeting Lily she is this vibrant colorful girl, she makes a daisy bloom and she has this red hair and colorful clothes with flowers print while Severus stands by an old dead tree dressed in black and white and makes those dead-looking willow seeds fly.
I love how Snape has a very brief look of hope and love when he gazes into Harry's eyes. Where his face relaxes and his mouth agapes in awe as he realizes Lily still lives on within Harry. Alan Rickman absolutely nailed this scene.
As someone who recently found your channel you guys are my youtube dads. Ive been going through it with uni studies. Failing test, scared but you guys help me a lot. Ive cried many times listening and watching these videos. And all i want to say is thank you.