This is LITERALLY two fans in one | Fan Showdown S5E1
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Been a while since we wrapped up season 4 of the fan showdown, well we are back. Today marks the start of season 5 of the fan showdown. With a new season comes changes to how we are judging the contestants. Last season we focused on just airflow, however you said you want this season to focus on static pressure. So that’s what we will do, this season the fans will have to push air through a standard 120mm AIO radiator. Fans prioritize static pressure in there design should have the upper hand this season. Oh, and the cheater came along to season 5, the cheater was undefeated in season 4 let’s see if someone can topple the champion this season.
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It's kind of funny how the "I don't know anything about aerodynamics, I just made something that looks cool" designs almost always end up at the top in terms of performance
The problem with all those "I tried to fix X" designs might be that people are over-focusing on a single aerodynamic effect.
It's the dartboard method. Fire a million darts, you're going to get a bullseye eventually.
Most of the obvious strategies have already been tried, so what's left is a mix of art, intuition, and chance.
I made the warhead! I just went to solidworks and tried to make something creative and didnt focused much if it was gonna move a lot of air. I think it turned out great tho 😅
I think the opening statement in superfastmatt's video "the aerodynamics of speed" sums it up the most. "Aerodynamics is one of those things the more you know about it the more you know, you dont know."
@@zoide1538 cool, now breed your design with the hollowman, I'd really like to see if that will perform better with your blade shape
I'd love to see all the top fans from each season put up against each other (season 1, 2, 3, and 4)
fan showdown: season 5: in paradise
and perhaps do an episode with the Phanteks thiccboi and other A12-a-likes too!
Ya I want a recap because we didn't get recaps for some of the other sessions
@@HazewinDog and the Silverstone FHP 141super thiccboi maybe. It's technically 140mm fan, but it has mounting holes for 120mm. It can also change the airflow direction without the need of physically flipping the fan.
This is the way
4:10 "Hollowman" is a REALLY interesting design, it combines BOTH regular fan blowing, but also centrifugal compression fanning too.
This can DEFINITELY be much expanded on. :D
@@Mohenjo_Daro_ I was thinking the same thing
I Completely agree
I never seen anything like this before, and I've seen a lot of weird stuff
you are right, the center part is unnecessary because it all comes from the centrifugal force pushing out the air in the blade. I made 2 designs, one without the "turbo" in the center
@sourand jaded it is mostly centrifugal force in the blades. maybe also some venturi. but the air from the center has to go somewhere..
@@Mohenjo_Daro_ you're absolutely right, this small fan has very little power. It has a little bit of force, and not as much force as shown. It would be better if this design actually had more force pushing through the center of the fan. Look at the designs of tiny fans as a comparison. They work better with more blades.
I would love to see a name plate for each fan on screen when the fan is on screen for testing. It would help if you lost focus or don't remember which fan is which just from looking at them during the smoke test.
The Hollowman is REALLY interesting! I love the designs that are only possible with additive manufacturing. I think that’s where the most room for innovation will come from.
thanks ;)
I'd like to see a couple shots of the smoke going though the radiator and into the wind tunnel
he doesn't put smoke through the radiator and tunnel. it would possibly leave residue each time which could slowly skew the tests.
You're just everywhere aren't you lol
Also. You should include the radiator in the smoke test so we can get a visual of how the air is moving.
It would have been nice to see the smoke going (or not going) through the holes in the Circumventor's box
I saw some going past the fan, but I didn't really see it get sucked into the side vents.
Possibly not enough restriction and too many inlets to really see the Venturi effect in action
Well, there was no smoke coming out of those holes. Meaning the air flow was going into them as intended. The question we are left to speculate is just how fast.
That is what we saw unfortunately. Bypass inlets rely on a bypass fan, because the environment behind them is at a higher pressure due to the main exhausts. Notice how you don't see inlet vanes on the outside of high-bypass jet engines.
no one NO ONE saw the air puncher project i put on thingverse and it's been a long time since he hasn't. made my fan
So Noctuas fan is the one to beat. How unsurprising, that it performs best in a test setup closer to the real world application.
well, if you put a fan on the exhaust, it wouldn't have to have a lot of pressure
That’s interesting-- what if the fan was exhaust, with gaskets, would the results be different???
@@formbi yes and no, actually it still would need some static pressure to overcome the resistance of the radiator
as per definition, pressure is resistance to flow, so if you only have flow but no pressure then you won't get far
theoretically, it should do better in push configuration(or intake if you will)
@@andyking05 I think @Formbi meant exhaust in a case. And as for the original comment: every season on the fan showdown so far tested a real world scenario, just different types. This one.is a static pressure focused test, in which the a12x25 excels, because it was designed to have high sp. The fan submissions in this episode were probably designed with either no particular specialization, or to have high airflow, since s4 tested pure airflow.
The Cheater should work really well as an intake or an exhaust fan in a case, since high airflow fans are the best at displacing air inside the case.. well, this is pretty much where all of the high-flow designs would land.
Static pressure on the other hand is a different story. Have you ever noticed that specialized SP fans (like the Noctua P-fans) often has larger blades, and a flatter profile compared to their airflow counterparts?
At least as far as the older fan designs went. Nowadays, advancements in fan technology has created designs that can do both airflow and static pressure very well.
That Hollow fan with the centrifugal compressor going on inside made me think of several things one of which was how aesthetically pleasing it would be to have the frame rate synced to the fan so that the fan was stationary and the smoke was moving. I understand this would be a pain in the ass because every fan is spinning at a different speed. But it would be rad.
the two-tone filament is a great way to show off the contours of the parts. good choice.
The hollow man design is just what 3D printing is all about, just about impossible to manufacture otherwise. Respect to the designer of that fan!
thanks
the amount of air actually going through the center of the hollow fan was really awesome. maybe more blades but who knows.
I would love to see an episode with top fans from ealier seasons tested with this method.
I like that the airflow past the radiator test is a good real-world application, but I really wish you could have gotten an actual pressure reading in addition to the raw airflow. Testing consumer fan designs with those two would allow for strategic fan placement for either raw airflow or radiator cooling.
That and I just wanted to see how much pressure the roots blower could actually push.
Hollowman is such a cool design! A+ for creativity!
Thanks
THAT HOLLOW BLADE ACTUALLY TOOK IN SOME AIR!! Kudos to the fella for a unique idea :)
I need that hollow man for that white noise sound, surprisingly soothing!
I’d say the low pressure caused by the blades moving and centripetal stuff forces air into the central fan and out. It’s pretty neat. Should be honored in some way because it’s so unique.
i would patent it if I had the money..
The hollowman seems to be a combination of a centrifugal and an axial fan, that's a seriously cool idea. I love it!
Heyy I'm Lucs! Thanks for reviewing my design! Happy that it works kinda well ahaha keep up the great content!
Hats off to the design concept of the hollow man. I like watching the series and conceptualizing my own approach. I never considered this solution to utilizing the dead face at the center of the fan to also move air. Pretty great to see it working. Well played sir.
I‘VW been watching and subbed ever since S1.
I’m sitting here in a Friday night in Nov of 22 and it just hit me. There are 225k people all sitting here watching fans move smoke.
What a lovely bunch of people we are. It takes a certain person to understand and enjoy what this experiment series represents, and I enjoy the company whilst here.
Is the rad going to be filled and if so could a temperature sensor be added to the loop to see how well the fans cool the loop?
For the hollow fan, I don't believe it's pulling air into the center because of the fan blades in there. I think it's more because there is a pocket of negative pressure created on the trailing edge of the outer blades, where the exits for the center duct are located, and that negative pressure is puling air into the center.
correct, the centrifugal force is forcing the air out of the blade, making a suction in the center
While I appreciate that we are now testing on something closer to real world performance, it's a shame that the rules have changed. I was working on developing something specifically to maximize the unrestricted airflow case but it would do so at the cost of handling any static pressure. Now I have to go back to the drawing board.
It would be interesting to revisit some of the compressor designs to see how well they do, since they are all about developing static pressure at the expensive of unrestricted airflow.
Hollowman did far better than I expected. When there's a huge fog on the other side that usually means it didn't push the air well enough where as all the others sent the air streaming away from the fan pretty evenly.
Looking forward to a Hollowman II
@@pctrashtalk2069 ok I'l make a new one. I also sent a version with no "turbo" . I think it needs more blades
@@marckerger It was really pulling air into the central fan wasn't it? The smoke test really shows whats happening.
@@pctrashtalk2069 yes it does. just that it is more the negative pressure sucking in the air than the Turbo fan.
Surely the fan that cools the best is... The fan that cools the best, therefore surely the way to find out which fan cools the best is to see how well it cools. With a cooler, attached to something you're trying to cool.
Great line up of fans for the new season, editing on point as always, sexy PLA and I like the new testing parameters. Nicely done.
Awesome! I like the new testing and the gaskets, great episode!
I love the hollow boi. What a cool idea!
Hollowman is something that would be quite hard to manufacture without 3D printing. Cool design.
yep. I am an AM specialist
if anything the vanes in the middle of the hollowman do nothing...it's simply the centrifugal nature of middle inlet radial outlet... 'getting a second set of blades for free'. It is nice that it allows the second (very small channel) set of blades to do work on the previously blocked center inch.
Correct
I'd love to see the fpm with this setup of the phanteks T30, the 120mm noctua industrial 3000 rpm and the 140mm version of the 3000 rpm industrial mounted with an adapter, to see if a bigger fan would make a difference with a smaller radiator.
Also a measurement, maybe just for the NF-A12, in pull and push pull configuration! 😁
*@Major Hardware*
5:03 At the end there, can you play all 4 fan-sounds together, without ANY other noise in between (and preferably a timer-loading-bar for those clips together),
so I can REALLY crank up the volume on my speakers to hear the differences, without the speakers blowing out from the speaking in between the sounds.
I love this new direction for testing!
Could you show a ranking of fpm/dB? I think that might be an interesting competition in itself.
For this it's probably best to standardize it somehow, since dB is far from linear (since it's logarithmic)
Some example standards:
* performance at 30dB
* dB at 300fpm
@@TheDoh007 Good idea. If we want to compare linear to linear units, we can convert with: linear power = 10^( dB / 20 )
@@NickCombs Oh yeah you can calculate that!
Although the equation for linear power is 10^(dB/10)
the equation you gave is for voltage
I like that some good static pressure testing good job.
The thought and appearance of the Hollow Fan is impressive.
Have been waiting for a new season!! So Fcking excited!!
Excited as always! Cannot wait to see new designs.
I absolutely LOVE the creeping montage music, then MONTAGE BABYYYY!
The hollow man might be on to something as a case fan (not a cpu cooler). the air volume should be significantly higher at the cost of static pressure in that design.
it needs more RPM for more centrifugal force
You should've shown the hollowman from a more behind angle so that we could see the smoke exiting the fan through the baldes, might've looked cool.
Its also going to be very interesting to see how designers are going to shape for both static pressure whilst maintaining good volumetric efficency with flow, it does go to show just how much research noctua put into their fans.
Why are these videos so fun to watch
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners....🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁
G'day Major,
Just wondering if each episode this season we can add one of the Top Fans from previous seasons to the 4 new ones like you did with the Cheater here?
I'd really like to see Jason's T33 MKIII & Thomas's Acceleron included as these are my 2 Favourites from the Showdowns as unlike the Cheater they fit can really be used as Case Fans.
0:46 props to the designer ~ Friggin Cool!
awesome, been waiting months for more static pressure focused showdown
If you're looking for static pressure. A lot of designs will be a centrifugal design.
The more you add, the higher your pressure.
Now we need a centrifugal thin enough that will not self destruct.
Just like a jet engine, things come in 3's. You would need a LP (low pressure) centrifugal fan that spins the air into a HP (high pressure) centrifugal. 1x LP cent. And 3x HP cent. For optimum static pressure.
Now for the calculations from diameter and RPMs.
Have the a-12-25 as a LP aft fan. Use a tri gear hub to increase the rpm of the LP intake centrifugal upto 5,000 rpm, if possible. And the intake LP fan should be around 140mm.
In-between the LP intake fan and the a-12-25 LP aft fan are three, stacked on top of each other, HP Centrifugal compressor fans (stationary).
First, i *LOVE* the fact you made a fan with a tie-dye effect! It really helps on the fluid dynamics side of things. You can see the rotation in relation to the smoke. Can see the weird drag and vortex anomalies much better.
I'm kinda wondering when they're going to introduce thermocatalytic dual-filament 3D printers that use a reaction between the contents of A and B in a pair of different filaments to produce a much better bonding structure.... technology is to the point now that we could also include a UV laser on the head to re-heat the prior surface and activate bonding...
I feel for this new season the ones that will dominate will have tight tolerances with the housing, moderately aggressive blade pitch and the more you can close the gaps between the blades the better and still allow it to scoop air will win out and it’s gonna be a balancing act with all this variables. 😊 also to add and still have a good blade surface area to “cradle” the air
Can't wait to see how this season pans out. Rock out, fan boys!
I would put the circumventor's base after the radiator. Looks like they were going for a high pressure to low pressure design, and putting the rad at the end of it would, at least in my mind, negate the effect of the low pressure zone. I could be totally wrong, but in my mind, it's a valid theory...
I’m excited for this season!
The hollow man fan looks really cool
Would love to see both airflow standard as well as you doing the airflow through the radiator
Airflow without radiator is basically just a "paper stat", like crank horsepower in a car. It adds no value to the tests and just overcomplicates it.
@@sepg5084 Some of us still use case fans to push air through our case, not everything is about radiators.
This is a MUCH better testing method. I'm definitely excited to see what season 5 has coming.
You know, I didn't think those hollow blades would work at all, but it actually pulled air into them. Pretty cool. Probably pointless, but cool.
Air will enter it, but with the diameter of the fan, the blade rotational velocity will be rather low. Such small fans need a high rpm to move air, and it is not a high thrust fan, just high airspeed.
The paths after the fan are a source of high drag as well, with erratic angles.
I would guess the pressure variation between the small fan and the trailing edge of the blades is doing more than the fan.
The small fan blades are a source of drag and slow down the fan, so in the end, it likely is, unfortunately, a less efficient fan. But maybe I'm wrong.
@@Vaterraman Yeah I was almost going to write that. The part about low pressure at the blade edge pulling air through there, but I didn't bother.
It's still fun it placed second.
ît is the centrifugal force that ejects the air aout the rear of the blades. more RPM= more force
might have been good to start off with a little explainer about what static pressure means and how it's measured, for those who don't know
The A12x25 is a great reference model but I'd also love to see some other fans you can buy regularly like the new be Quiet! Silent Wings (Pro?) 4 or also the older Noctua NF-F12.
Still funny how the fan showdown started with a sentence like "fans are basically all the same and it doesn't matter which one you buy" and Noctua sent their NF-A12x25 to disprove that. And now fans are the main topic of your channel. :D
the hllowman: its more likely the centrifugal force acting on the gas inside the blades of the fan that is creating a low pressure zone at the mounth of the smaller fan, but its brilliant
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners....🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁
Looks like you got a solid head start on no shave November 💪😏
I think the Hollowman would kick ass with two more blades😅 great work to the designer, i might use that idea with the centre fan spinning at a different or counter rotating separate speed to the outer😮 awesome!
Heck yeah new season!
that double fan is awesome
I believe the extra parts like the cheater has will make all the difference in combination with tighter clearances
The Hollowman is ingenious!
i have also never seen any similar concept using centrifugal force inside a blade
That waster cool pump from the sponsor looks AWESOME
im a fan of the fans.
static pressure really changes it. some of those looked REALLY good as straight airflow, and had good sound profiles as well. but when you gotta push through a cooler or radiator, it really changes things. thats why we suddenly see that stock Noctua at the top again. this season might be hard to dethrone the original!
My only qualm with the new format, and I think the old one come to think of it, is that you don't put the name of the fan on screen briefly when you do the switch on the smoke tests. I'm pretty tired and drunk right now though so I might be forgetting it being there in the past, but it wasn't here, and I think that would just make it a little clearer with the switches.
@@inboxontelegrmmajorhardware reported
2:30 dude you time these edits to cut your sentance off litterally perfectly
im a little surprised you haven't gotten one of the noctua industrial 120's that can run at 3000rpm as the base motor for the testing. But i love to see how this testing compares to previously and knowing the cheater straight up loses to the standard a12x25 is honestly a bit surprising i wonder if the shroud affects the static pressure because the air has more room to slow down before it hits the rad.
Thats some cool filament!
hey Major Hardware i have 2 questions,
first: can you put maybe the 2. best fan in the case of the cheater if its even better?
second: if you put 2 fans together, did they double they perfomance or is it less?
maybe you can check it with you setting :3
OK, I see the hollowman, It's almost what I would have done if I would have participated. (but I lack the software & skills)
I would have extended the center bit bit further, and probably routed the air trough the blades slightly differently.
But Now I'm very interested on how it manages, it would tell me quite well would my idea have worked.
Wow. There's something to that hollow blade design.
Loving the choice of music you use when showing the fans in action, I wonder how many people will get the reference 🎼🎵🎵😂😂😂
New season lets goo
Can you retest the noctua on each new episode so that we keep track of possible deterioration of the radiator itself? (debris, dust, etc).
Wonder if the contra rotating fan with the loud gears would have good static pressure
Hollow man was a really great idea and fun to see 👌
maybe I should make more blades. but more RPM would make more centrifugal force to the square. so more flow inside.
2:16 I was expecting a clip from the movie, "The Dictator".
That is one of my favorite commercials.
@4:06 Dave warden. He’s the guy in the commercial and has a weed related channel that bee around for ever. And one that I love (loved) he’s a cool dude. Just for those wondering about it. I no longer smoke but when I did, Dave was hilarious to watch. Watch his older stuff and you might get it. Just a fun tid bit. Every time I see that clip I’m reminded of all those high af toasty laughs me and my friends had. He’s also a really good dude too. From what I can tell
ok holy Fuck I LOVE the polychromic filament you're using here
Great ,
Thanks for the vid.
What filament was used at 3:24 ? Colors look amazing
"Are you sure about that?!" Has me absolutely rolling. Love the random shit 😂
Watching my way through the whole series and realized S4E7 isn't in the playlist lmao so I had to go find it. Needless to say I wasn't disappointed at all!
I'm actually hyped about going back to more sensible, actually usable designs instead of 50cm of stacked plastic contraptions
Cool looking fans there, little bummed to have put in designs similar to the one with the fan in the center the first couple seasons
dat filament is fuqin sick
It would be very nice if you could include m/s as well when talking about the airflow speed
What this has really gone to show is just how much time Noctuas engineers must've spent making their fan design for it to be this good in both airflow and static pressure scenarios
Where did you get the music during the fog test
that first one was really good what the
Can you set up different classes of fan sizes? Ones that fit in the 25mm normal fan space, oversized ones up to say 40-50mm, crazy ones using lots of parts or space, and then a category for artistic or creative fans that are not about performance.