I know that I know just enough to get by but still be an idiot when it comes to building computers. I use to build them, but it's been 15 years since I build one as I moved over to a laptop for convenience. Now that I want a desktop one, the tech has really changed so I'm kinda lost. I'm glad there are tech guys like Jay that can help me do it right the first time so I don't have to pull things out a do it again.
paaahaaahaaaaaaa. your comment is hilarious... you mean misinterpreting the words re written over a thousand years in a tacky novel by many different people and religions to suit there own needs..........
@@defsoul641 This comment told us in a funny and elegant way it is NOT a generation problem, but the mis-interpreting problem has been around for 2000 years. Different interpretation´of original information (of Jesus) has been already started by the apostles within the same generation back then (pun intended). And up to today you can find spin doctors fighting wars about semantics. Using this for generation bashing is unfair. (EDIT replaced flame phrase).
3 years later and for my first AIO install I installed it tubes top. Watched Steves video and imediatly changed it to tubes bottom. The man is brilliant and when it comes to this type if thing I dont know anyone better to take advice from.
Yeah I have a coupled dirt cheap ebay used 120mm AIOs that are definitely 6+ years old now and they still operate fine. One of them a Corsair H50 (converted to H55 for AMD) I used to this day to cool my R5 3600. It's as good as the Wraith Prism (an already overkill air-cooler for a R5 3600) I was using set to High without the loud noise that it brought. Only thing I modified was replacing the Corsair 120mm fan with a Thermaltake ToughFan 12 so there was zero fan vibration noise.
@@Stephain Yeah it's definitely still holding up today. With most modern games it's actually my graphics card that's the bottle neck (GTX 960). But I will have to wait to replace that one until the whole market has calmed down again.
@@joeybergeron376 well you can post pics of your build just show the out side of the case only that is completly closed up so no one can see inside of it lol
@@markking3755 No, because then someone would say, "Why did you buy that case idiot? Don't you know that so and so said it's not a good case for this or that"
jay just keeps spewing nonsense. i'm a marine engineer. fluid dynamics and thermodynamics are, literally, my favourite topics outside of pure physics. and i did got my degree in the past millennia but physics of those hasn't changed from the big bang so i bet you my knowledge is still usable. tubes on the top are bad because air gets trapped in the entrance of the radiator so there is lower flux of thermal energy. that causes building of heat in the pump, translation of that heat to gasses in the connector of the radiator. gasses expand more readily in the heat then liquids so bubbles get thrown about the circulatory system and air gets logged in the radiator and the pump. heated gasses get more permiation from tubes that introduces more gas in the system. more gas gets in the radiator and the pump. you want the thermal isolator (air) in the end of the system and not at the choke, flux or critical point of ingress like the radiator connector. we build literal traps for gasses above connectors of critical systems to avoid anything but perfect transition of maximum flow calculated by bernoulli equation. i just couldn't watch the "you think this or that" attitude and then going on some tangent. either get on the topic or don't make the video, jay.
@@sakatababa How would air bubbles in the barb (hose) end of the radiator impact dissipation of heat? Unless the high point of the loop is @ the pump/ water block, there will be little if any impact to flow volume. The downside of having a radiator mounted vertically with the hoses at the top is that air bubbles gather by the two tanks the barbs connect to and can lead to water trickling sounds and what some customers might confuse for pump whine. The most important thing to avoid with a closed loop setup is having the water block/pump at a higher level than the top of the radiator. This can cause a big enough air bubble that the pump can't move water at all (or enough to cool the system). If the impeller isn't a magnetic levitation style, it can also destroy the pump if it's not getting water for lubrication. Closed loop AIO coolers for desktop PCs don't deal with the coolant temperatures or pressures you may be familiar with. Water temps over 50° C are pretty rare.
@@faceplants2 if you remember your bernoulli equation for flow dynamics, reduced diameter to pipe introduces buffeting that introduces cavitation that introduces more bubbles. also, reduces pressure past choke poin, increases pressure before choke point. turbulent flow is bad, very very bad. ever heard your water pipes vibrate when you turn the faucet too hard. yeah, that thing. air is thermal isolator. bad for conducting. no bueno. should be avoided in critical ingress points. creating a pocket of hot liquid coming from conductive point (the hottest point in the system) before it gets to the radiator (the cooling element) is superb sabotage. it traps heat in an isolator (plastic pipe) and just keeps piling on, changes flow dynamics (in and of itself, that is secondary to the choke) and reduces thermal conductivity of the plate (like plugging exhaust in the car engine, same thing). while i did work on systems from -40C to +320C most of my experience is with 10C-70C. and 24 years of building pc's tells me it is in the right ball park. just because i have an egineering degree does not mean i don't have extensive knowledge of computer systems. on the contrary, i currently work a cushy job as unix engineer in devops role for a major cable company. better pay, flexible hours, i get to live with my family and not some15 other guys for months at a time on a floating can. it is a water/glycol mixture. it does change some physical properties of the liquid (like surface lubrication, thermal expansion, etc). and temperature over 50C isn't rare. non-idle cpu goes readily over that mark. and liquid needs to heat up to transfer that heat away from the cpu to the radiator to, well, radiate it in ambient air. system works not with introducing cold liquid but with taking heat away. i should've been more verbose the first time and just get it over. heck, a copy/paste would suffice...
@@sakatababa I couldn't make it through your entire post. I would appreciate some brevity in the future. The phenomenon you're describing is water hammer. I'm still dubious as to whether you are as well versed in this subject as you propose to be because you are emphasizing things that are of trivial nature in the context of closed loop desktop, PC liquid cooling solutions. Whatever systems you were familiar with working on, surely you acknowledge that context, constraints and application are key
best way cus top is the exost port and back so ur heting it up a little i say in front for cool air intake but up side down so air is on top and liwied and hose on bottom and if u payed over 200 to 300 and ur pump cant pump a foot up then its trash cus i deal with pumps all time and depending on size thay all ment to pump up but some like small one only ment to pump a foot up for like a small water founting or somthing like that or even a aio
I do kind of wish the music was cut for this part, too. I'm wondering if that's a consequence of this video possibly being edited with headphones. Considering they've been pumping out a video a day, with a 3 man crew, for this whole month I'm not going to sweat it
@@Ragnorok64 Then why not use headphones for that part 😋. I'm just being facetious lol as it's 3 am here although it was audible over speakers - it was just barely at the volume on my mini amp at the lowest setting (PC, TH-cam and Browser volume at 100%). The sound also depends on the quality of the headphones too so if a person has crappy headphones they won't have much luck. It'd be best for Phil to just cut out the music for similiar scenarios in the future.
When some of Tech Jesus disciples start spreading stuff again that they haven't even understood 50% of, Tech Godfather has to pimp slap them once in a while.
@@ValkyrieTiara the comment isnt about tech jesus, its about tech jesus followers, so your comment makes little sense, but people will like it, because crapping on religion is really popular right now. Gg.
@@imagineaworld Uh.... yeah, dude. That's the Joke. I'm specifically saying that Jesus' RL followers go around preaching without actually understanding anything Jesus said. Jesus' message was specifically about honoring God by loving your fellow man and putting others before yourself without judgement, but you have people shouting from the hilltops about how he hates gays and muslims. Cry more.
Thanks for this video Jay! I built my first PC in 2005, my next in 2014, and now my third in 2023(but 1st water-cooled cpu). I'm a DIYer who likes to consider all possibilities and understand them so that I can 'get it right' for my application. So, I read a bunch of articles & watched many videos on AIO water cooler positioning. Yours was the best combination of science, fabrication, & practical application that I came across. My main take-away: A radiator mounted to the top of the case is best. It keeps any 'system air' in a shallow layer which is less likely to impede liquid flow and continues to allow maximum heat dispersion. (IF my case didn't allow it, I'd do a front or side mount ... ensuring the hose & pump remain lower than the highest point of the radiator. Good to understand the pros, cons, and key factors in this option.)
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ue I'm not sure why you think anyone is saying that. It doesn't stop permeation but it does help prevent abrasion causing a critical failure. It also serves as a minor heat shield
@@SepticFuddy well true but it's like the braided stainless steel rubber hose lines they have on the water lines at work and the boss is like there steel lines how can they leak like that and I have to tell him the steel braiding only stops the line from snapping off when it ruptures but it's not water proof so when the rubber line inside ruptures it still leaks so there are people that think the braiding should stop leakage when it does not it does help with abrasion but that is about it
Steve : "don't have your pump on top of the loop, and if your tubes go up the air will settle on top and you'll hear a slight gurgle" Internet : "ok so if my tubes go up my house will burn down"
Building my first AIO cooled computer, and this is the first I've ever heard about proper orientation. You've saved my computer before I've even built it. Thanks for the education!
@@alpha_th0t It went fine. Ended up realizing that even with the large case I have that there wouldn't be enough room for a side mounted AIO and a beefy GPU, so we went with a top mounted system. Still waiting for those GPU's to fall to a reasonable price, but other than that, it's done.
@@tyywitdalocs Don't I know it. But at least China has banned bitcoin mining, and the bottom has fallen out of the market. Card prices are starting to drop, and the GPU manufacturers are getting ready to launch the next generation. So supply will be booming!
Same applies to custom water cooling, i placed my pump unit in the basement of the case, sits lower than all the other components, this also helps with feeding it, i recommend people to get a large reservoir if you can, gravity helps a lot with feeding the pump instead of having the pump potentially having to suck liquid. Been using the same D5 pump unit for almost a decade, hardly has to do any work at all to move the coolant around my big tower with a triple rad on top.
@@emjayel206 Such an ignorant comment. You've been out of school for ages so how the hell do you know what they teach? Everyone should know that the system has pretty much stayed relatively the same.
@@earthphoenix5226 "Considering you to have been" ??? Jesus, I guess the school system has actually gotten worse since I left. They are even skipping basic grammar to teach liberal nonsense.
I think the confusion can be about how much force a pump needs to overcome the rising air. Especially when viewing videos about filling custom water loops and seeing the air being pulled through the loop.
This video's still going strong after a year, awesome. One thing I noticed with my 240 AIO, since I could monitor liquid temperature, is that having it as top mounted exhaust- my Asus TUF 3080 was heating up the air so much before it got pulled into the rad that during gaming.. my water would heat up 10-15 degrees, and the cpu temp would creep up to match. Moving the rad to the front alleviated that, and only increased the gpu temp a few degrees (since the TUF has insane cooling, it was a worthwhile tradeoff). I've since upgraded to a Lian Li Galahad 360 (and a 4080) and while I can squeeeeeze it into the front of my Fractal Meshify 2... barely, and not with the hoses down. I have it top mounted now, but depending on the heat next summer.. I might have to rethink that. TL:DR - Generally mounting your rad on the front helps with cpu temp, and mounting on the top helps with gpu temp. If you have a FE or blower style cooler though, it's probably not enough of difference to be concerned with they blast most of the hot air out the back of the card as opposed to in the case... but if you have an aib card definitely check your temps. I noticed a much more significant difference in temps vs even when Jay himself did a video about it
so you would generally reccomend mounting the aio to the front where possible? or is that more for specific coolers and cpu+GPU setups? in my case im running an amd ryzen 5950x with a stock cooler and an evga 1080ti. Had bought a 240mm aio to replace the stock cooler, which after testing is keeping cpu temp at around 70c maxed out and a couple extra fans blowing out the top, but discovered it wouldnt work for my setup as the top of the case lacks sufficient clearance and the front isnt compatible with it due to having drive bays for 2.5"SSD/3.5"HDD and disk readers. planning on getting a new case sometime in january, I think I've settled on a thermaltake view 71 series full tower case, which will have more than enough space for a 240mm aio, as well a new huge ass 40 series gpu when the time comes for that.
@@AtrociousAK47 I guess it really depends on how your case and components all interact together. Front fan intake and top aio exhaust will always favor the video card, at the expense of CPU temps-and vice versa. Most of the time the differences are in degrees, and cpus under gaming load generally have more headroom to run a bit warmer.
@@markallen3856 Yeah there's lots of room. I have the Gigabyte Gaming OC, which is one of the bigger 4080s. It's about 14 inches long which leaves just over 4 inches between the back of the card and the front of the fans.
@@shawn2780 Most of my fans are at the front (cause Corsair 4000X things) and it actually manages to build up enough cool air in that area to reach my RAM, so I think the 3 fans at the front should be enough for my PC temps to be balanced throughout.
There is no confusion, there is missinformation mate :) Because they skipped the video, or copied what other said, did you just skip this video yourself ? :P
This is a common problem with his videos. Twice longer as they should be. He should hire someone who edit his scripts, and rewrite in more accesible/shorter way. Like Jay here explain same thing with a lot less talking. People don't wanna watch 30 minutes video, for things which can be explained in 5 minutes. I personally stop watching his channel because of it.
I just purchased a 360 AIO, been sitting, scratching my head for an hour unable to fit it tubes down... this video just saved my day. This channel has saved the day several times now actually. Thanks!
It's still a bad idea as the air pocket at the top of the radiator limits water flow into the outlet of the radiator. You still shouldn't leave the tubes up. As the AIO gets older there will be a point the water level is too low and where air will start getting into the pump yet. It's still best to leave the AIO on the top of the case for the best life span.
@@Skylancer727 you didn't watch the video. The air pocket will be trapped in the inlet side. There is no physical way it can get back to the pump once it's trapped in the inlet of the radiator. Unless the bubble is so large that the radiator is almost empty.
Very clear and direct explanation thank you! Makes sense. I like the radiator on top also because heat rises and better to blow the hot air out from the top. Also keeps the radiator and hoses away from the graphics card. The radiator on the front does look cooler with RGB LEDs as long as the radiator high point is above the pump.
I thought the heat rising thing was important myself, but from what I've since heard about PC cases and heat is that the effect of heat rising is negligible in the presence of case fans.
@@charlesurias yes this is a good comment here, because there are different type of fans, push/pull, static or pressure, etc., and if the fans are moving the air towards the exhaust fan point then exactly it's negligible because pressure is created for the air to move to that point. But, if OP for instance only has the AIO as the exhaust point, and air is oscillating inside the case, then yeah OP's set up would prove more effective. Really comes down to how the fans are set up. for me for instance, I have an NZXT H1 V2, I flipped the fan and radiator so that air is coming from the outside in, and I made fan mods for additional exhaust out. So, I have no other air besides the CPU air being pushed into the case, or from the GPU, while all my other fans are exhaust out (5 total, 3x 40mm, 1x 40mm, 1x 80mm). So far creating this dynamic I have seen reduction in CPU temps, and little to no change from advised 7900XT temps. My radiator is also configured as push rather than pull.
@@laurikuusisto5580 I respect the hard work they do, but I wait for other youtubers like jay or linus to explain the stuff they say because I understand nothing from their long and boring (to me) videos
@@Seif_Morsi I usually watch all of the above mentioned channels. Jay for fun and easy, Linus for the normie version and GN for the detailed version with lots of numbers. And then there is the matter of Buildzoid on AHOC... That's the real shit. Like deep. But ranty and without numbers. Like this comment. Where was I going with this? Well whatever. Love them all but for different reasons ❤👍
I stuffed up. I had asked Corsair if it can go in front in the front (a 240 in a 750D), and they replied with Bison saying YES!. I didn't think it was right though because the pump was a little above. Fortunately, I didn't use the system that much because of board issues until I replaced it. I hope I haven't damaged it. I put the rad back on the top again where I originally had it.
Maybe they are new to the idea of liquid cooling pumps in computers. I built computers for 20 years, but stopped in 2007 and water cooling your system was in it's infancy so I knew what it was, but had only seen pictures of hard-line systems. AIOs didn't exist at the time.
Blows my mind more that people don't realize that if you put the tubes to the bottom, then air WILL get trapped in the pump. In that position the rad and pump make a 'V' where both the pump and the tubeless side of the rad are at high points and both will collect air...
@@Joreel I totally agree with that. Honestly, if I hadn't seen Beve's video it may not have occurred to me either. I was more referring to people who have watched the tutorial and aren't quite grasping the concept yet.
This was immensely helpful. I wanted to mount a 360mm AIO on top as an exhaust cuz I wanted cool air for my GPU, but I was confused by all the discussion out there and thought the top might be bad. Turns out it's the best and I can move on with my build. Thanks Jay!
top mounted also cools the gpu, but get a little hotter because of it, for more cpu cooling you can mount it in the front or side with the tubes on the bottom. but ive mounted mine on the top aswell, so thats completely valid and a perfect spot
If I recall, Steve also attacked NZXT and others for front mounting (tubes up) with the pump still below the barbs in marketing material and photos - and I think this added to the confusion. We made a video about this as well and walked through that section of his video.
This is seriously the kind of thing that gets my gears grinding. If you have to worry about that or shit starts leaking, you don't deserve to be in business. It's literally that fucking simple and i will start class actions against dickheads who think they can get away with scamming their customers like this. Seriously. This shit is /not/ even in the manual. Do NOT try to use it to dodge responsibility when your product damages other shit.
That's because people who bought and still are buying prebuilds doesn't have the same knowledge as us. They don't know that they have to make sure to lead the air towards the radiator, so it won't get trapped in the pump. NZXT didn't provide any manual or guide regarding this matter and therefore getting attacked by Steve, which he explicitly said in his video.
@@e47kz Yeah if he would take an ATX motherboard and showed the offset of the processor where it is on the motherboard, that would be better. I have a case with 2 HD cages in the topfront. Then the radiator goes under that. Then you do get the situation that the processor is the highest point of the loop. But with cases without anything in the front, then the 360 radiator is just fine upside down in there.
Ok, so small add. Pump is not working harder with air. It's working easier. And that's the problem. Any pump has a range of viscosity of what it is meant to pump. When it pumps something that is easier to propulse, than what it's made for - it starts revving up cause it doesn't have enough resistance. Which does lead to overheating, bearing ware cause of overclocking basically and ofcource the valve failure inside of the pump. This pumps are puny, so it doesn't damage THAT fast. But for drainage pumps, sewage submersive pumps, even for your kitchen's garbage disposal unit - it just can't go dry unless you want to almost instantly break it. This is why you should always have things like air separators and flow sensors.
Jay I love the fact that you and Steve are more than willing to quote, reference, and refer to each other on a regular basis. Just goes to show that you both have the bigger picture at heart 💜
I've had numerous people tell me that I was doing it wrong, I've always mounted facing above because liquid is denser than air... But apparently even simple things like that float above their heads, thanks for the videos, recently found your channel learning lots and touching up lots of information, I've been out of the tech game for 4 years, but I'm back!
you can mount it that way, its just not the best solution, its the "i cant install the aio any other way" solution corsair for example explicitly states that in their aio faq, pump never highest point, but if possible tubes always on the bottom or the aio top mounted
What a great explanation!!!!!! Not only did you give me peace of mind about my build (first one using an AIO), you also educated me quite a bit on the mechanics of liquid cooling.
Mad respect for Jay not only defending another youtuber but also scolding his own viewers who probably went and spread misinformation, hes like a father who makes us a better person in the end. Hes daddy Jay
@@MVicarious Exactly, Even if Steve is wrong its still a shitty situation for your viewers to go off and bother another youtuber on your behalf, thats how you become hated in a community and invite drama.
You’ll only understand if you’ve seen the other videos saying how not to use you inter cooler. There videos say not to do it so he’s mimicking the videos
@Vinicius no, he said not to mount the AIO so that the highest point in the loop is the pump. just take solace in the fact that if you mount your AIO with the hoses down they likely wont be long enough for your misunderstanding to cause a problem. i.e allow you to mount the pump higher than the highest point of the radiator.
@Vinicius he just says that air bubbles may occasionally enter the pump but they will cycle through and not get stuck there. Depending on how much fluid is left it may cause a little bit of noise or thermal degradation but didn’t have any data to support that.
@Vinicius better take a look at Steve's revisit video because what you are saying is wrong. So long as the pump isn't the highest point in the loop, you are good to go. Air is less dense than water, so it will always end up floating on top of the water. If any part of the radiator is higher than the pump, thats where it will accumulate instead of the pump. Where the barbs and hoses are doesnt change that one bit.
Ahhhhhhhhhh maybe not Enermax. Three generations of the same AIO and still can't get them to last longer than 6 months before complete failure. Pretty sure they got their engineers from some low income housing projects slum lord where they don't necessarily operate under any best practices or safety regulations, or functionality, whatsoever. Buying something from Enermax is more of a lease, with a specified end date. You get an AIO for as long as the warranty lasts and not much more.
I legit was going to change out my AIO and it def helped that you used the same one that i have currently. I thought something was wrong with it and turns out that the sound (of an old drain) that im hearing is probablly just air staying in the top. Very clear and easy explation, thank you.
saved this years ago and revisted when i got hold of a system with an aio. super quick and easy explanation; just couldn't remember which way around it went. thanks much Jay
You can't have no air in the system whatsoever, its the same as completely filling a gearbox with oil or a bearing with grease, it will lock as there is no give in the system. It actually needs a small amount of air else the impeller will lock. Thanks for the tip on hoses, its 2:30am, typically I think of this now but I'll check my builds tomorrow.
'So what are you doing for New Years Eve?' 'I'm remounting my AIO because it's been fitted the wrong way for over 2 years and it's suddenly causing me major anxiety'. 'Uhuh...'
With tubes bottom vertical mount if you were to inject air into the tube (or pump) the path "up" would actually be into the pump, not down against buoyancy to the bottom of the rad. Assuming the permeation happened only in the radiator that wouldn't be an issue, but I have to assume it would mostly occur in the tubes or fittings not so much the rad. A rad leak would be just that, an actual leak (just like a car) My assumption is the rate that it happens is so slow that just the flow can carry that very small amount of air (not enough to break a vacuum across the cross section of the tubing) thru the loop until it decides to join another mass of air where natural displacement is more likely to occur (the natural highest point in the entire loop where a vacuum could not exist). There is a certain delta of force, pressure, etc that would have the air move thru the system just like you would see when trying to siphon with a hose. So I am not disagreeing that the tubes down might be the best, but in a vertical mount situation I think I would go tubes up with the pump as low down as possible by comparison to eliminate the possibility of the pump ever being the highest point relative to any connection or position within the loop. This is my I.T. Engineer brain at work, but obviously I have not tested the theory in a real life situation, but could easily recreate this test and show the results as outlined above in a theoretical situation.
I don't recommend AIO's to my less tech-savvy peers, for they are usually not better in cooling performance than a good Aircooler, more things can go wrong, and they are more expensive. A good Aircooler can be just as quiet as well.
Talk to any motorcycle rider or mechanic and they talk with sounds like that. We understand certain things make sounds like that. Helps diagnose issues
Man, I'm so glad you made this video. I know I'm late to the party but, I watched your Sup-01 build a few days ago, then today I watched Steve's AIO video and I was like, 'did Jay install his cooler wrong?' 'Does the Sup-01 not support a properly installed AIO?' Who's right? LOl I had more questions than answers after watching Steve's video. So thank you for this!!!
That is what suddenly gave me the idea of propping up the font end of my case by about 1/4 inch. It could hear the "bubble noise" at startup after about 6 weeks after purchase. It would go away after about 3 minutes tho. So i put a level on my case and found that my desk on carpet was not level but allowed the tube end of the radiator to be a touch higher. Haven't had the sound since I did this.
GN is the best channel of its kind in my opinion, but it's certainly a lot more techie and data oriented, resulting in long video run times. I have no trouble watching Steve's videos from start to finish, but it's annoying (yet understandable) to see how eager people are to skip over large sections in them and go straight to the conclusions. JayZ's last 30 seconds of this video was a genius conclusion.
@@Tekel-Upharsin Steve is kind of a special character IMO. He is extremely knowledgeable, incredibly methodical in his testing approach, and very much focused on the details. I can totally understand though, why some people think that he comes off as condescending, even if he isn't. And, as you said, I think it's at least understandable why people would skip through his content. It's just the reality of how audiences function and that can't be ignored, which is why Videos like these are important.
@@DamnZodiak yep I think you nailed it. Steve and Jay seem to get along very well so maybe in an unexpected way their channels compliment each other - one for data, data, and more data and the other to make said data more "accessible" to the less tech savvy and/or "goldfish" (lol) audiences.
Steve EXPLICITLY in his video says, that even if the pump is several inches lower than the top of the tank you can get more pump noise because bubbles accumulating by the barbs will get sucked through the tubes with the coolant. Section starts at 18:34 and goes to 19:44.
The take-away from this video is, though, that as long as your pump is just a bit below the rad you're fine. You will not destroy your pump. Worst case, you might get a bit of noise, but that's ok since it would be caused by air in your rad, not in your pump.
It's the product of that plexi contraption. Once the loop is settled bubbles cannot get sucked all the way down the radiator and back up again to the radiator outlet.
Thank you! I literally just saw Steve’s in depth video last night and did like you said skipped to the end and thought I had my aio mounted wrong. I was dreading the work involved with reorienting my radiator. Thanks for clearing this up!
As someone who worked on an aircraft carrier as a mechanic, the intuition of fluid systems isn't something electrical/electronic folks get by applying their own logic lmao. Thanks for the explanation, I felt bad after watching Steve's video, but this makes so much more sense with what I understand!
Wow, I want to give massive credit to steve at GN, Becuase he does a ton of hardwork and diligence. But I did not easily understand what he was communicating. Thanks for taking the time to have that Radiator and move it around to make it more clear to me. it would be interesting to see a collab custom build with you two, instead of always at competition (which I also enjoy watching) Happy New Year!
4 years later, i just saw this. i got a 240 AIO together from cyberpower pc and they put it in front with the cpu being higher than the radiator. been running the i7 9700k since 2018 at 4.7Ghz and never stopped. heard those noise, specially at start but always thought it was common. 6 years working heavily, will update this when i get home
"Idiot's guide", you say?
You have my attention...
@Ziv Zulander I am offended, but also very much so agree.
But only briefly
I am an idiot when it comes to computers, so this is the perfect guide for me 👌👌
I know that I know just enough to get by but still be an idiot when it comes to building computers. I use to build them, but it's been 15 years since I build one as I moved over to a laptop for convenience. Now that I want a desktop one, the tech has really changed so I'm kinda lost. I'm glad there are tech guys like Jay that can help me do it right the first time so I don't have to pull things out a do it again.
He called us an idiot and we still watched the video.. we in a cult now 🤣
Jay - Can you hear the motor humm ?
Editor - Fuck this, let's play music in the background
So true 😔
came to say the exact same thing.
That’s exactly what I was thinking
how dare you disrespect Phil like that.
I actually thought I had something else playing in the back ground I was so confused
Misinterpreting the words of Jesus, sounds like an age old problem. *sigh*
Truly is.
You can give someone the exact lifepath to success, and they can still somehow misinterpret your instructions.
This! This is literally the only comment required to describe ANYTHING about this generation on the internet.
paaahaaahaaaaaaa. your comment is hilarious... you mean misinterpreting the words re written over a thousand years in a tacky novel by many different people and religions to suit there own needs..........
@@defsoul641 This comment told us in a funny and elegant way it is NOT a generation problem, but the mis-interpreting problem has been around for 2000 years. Different interpretation´of original information (of Jesus) has been already started by the apostles within the same generation back then (pun intended). And up to today you can find spin doctors fighting wars about semantics. Using this for generation bashing is unfair. (EDIT replaced flame phrase).
@@Thund3rstone Yea its been around for a long time but I said on the internet and on the internet it is 2000 times worse than 2000 years ago
3 years later and for my first AIO install I installed it tubes top. Watched Steves video and imediatly changed it to tubes bottom. The man is brilliant and when it comes to this type if thing I dont know anyone better to take advice from.
Same, I went from top mounted to side mounted with tubes up and I started getting this slight pump noise and it got progressively louder over time.
16:11 You're welcome.
lol thanks
Steve: Watch the entire video!
Johan: ...
Just got my loop yesterday was still wondering...until this! Thanks Johan!
a man for the people
KING
Me learning about evaporation in AIO's, while looking down at my AIO that's in use since 2011...
Which aio you have? Its is running fine since a decade, and its fine?
@@sMv-Afjal It's the stock AIO that came with my processor, the AMD FX 8150.
Yeah I have a coupled dirt cheap ebay used 120mm AIOs that are definitely 6+ years old now and they still operate fine. One of them a Corsair H50 (converted to H55 for AMD) I used to this day to cool my R5 3600. It's as good as the Wraith Prism (an already overkill air-cooler for a R5 3600) I was using set to High without the loud noise that it brought. Only thing I modified was replacing the Corsair 120mm fan with a Thermaltake ToughFan 12 so there was zero fan vibration noise.
Thanks, here I was thinking aio are not reliable at all.
@@Stephain Yeah it's definitely still holding up today. With most modern games it's actually my graphics card that's the bottle neck (GTX 960). But I will have to wait to replace that one until the whole market has calmed down again.
The teachings of Tech Jesus is beyond the comprehension of many people.
We needed a Tech Mesiah to understand his teachings
these people live with the curse of Babel, they dont understand the holy tech scriptures that he preaches
@@Supplice4 but jesus is the Messiah
So Jay is the Tech Pope? 🤭
Just like the real jesus
16:09 This is what you here for.
thank you
u r a hero
Lmao thank you 😂
THX!!!!
Thank you! For someone saying that someone else's video was too long, he should have watched this before uploading it.
the short short version
“air rises”
No it doesn't, fuuuuuu 😂👍
My butt
My D- in physics says otherwise
Nah, it's water that drops.
But Steve said
Jay needs to make a Shirt that reads "Steve can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
YES!
Yes
YES
@@FcoEnriquePerez you ruined the yes chain you bodacious barbarian
Yes!
i have found the safest thing for me is to never post photos online of anything i have built.
Lol
@@joeybergeron376 well you can post pics of your build just show the out side of the case only that is completly closed up so no one can see inside of it lol
Danger DOOM though.
@@markking3755 No, because then someone would say, "Why did you buy that case idiot? Don't you know that so and so said it's not a good case for this or that"
@@snowman22ism Thats true af bro
Video too long, instructions not clear. Cooler now pregnant.
Glad I'm not the only one that got my cooler pregnant
Pregananat!?!?
You must have used the wrong thermal compound. Use an anti static matt and latex gloves. Remember not to cross the streams. That would be bad.
@@kellyjackson1451 shit that's why then. Well the Cooler ended up leaving me and sued me for child support. 2024 getting wild
hw is aio pregrt?
"Lets talk about orientation."
I'm straight, Jay.
@Joshua Steele Hell id do it for a 3080
@Joshua Steele Deal
I'm straight too. But if there is a really hot girl that just so happen to have a D, I don't think I would mind.
The radiator obviously swings both ways.
@@fourtwenty5986 Lady Sylvia enthusiast
So now everyone is going to link this video after someone links Steve’s video
Someone will link this video, on Steve's video. ;)
epic
This one and Salazar video both
Steve wasn’t a wrong this even jayztwocents admits this he just wants to tell people it’s not that serious
I pooped
Steve:*explains thoroughly the science and process for ‘standard’ AIOs and positioning*
Jay: PAY ATTENTION, CHILDREN!!
This the one :D lol. Gotta love going to Daddy Jay lmao
jay just keeps spewing nonsense.
i'm a marine engineer. fluid dynamics and thermodynamics are, literally, my favourite topics outside of pure physics. and i did got my degree in the past millennia but physics of those hasn't changed from the big bang so i bet you my knowledge is still usable.
tubes on the top are bad because air gets trapped in the entrance of the radiator so there is lower flux of thermal energy. that causes building of heat in the pump, translation of that heat to gasses in the connector of the radiator. gasses expand more readily in the heat then liquids so bubbles get thrown about the circulatory system and air gets logged in the radiator and the pump. heated gasses get more permiation from tubes that introduces more gas in the system. more gas gets in the radiator and the pump.
you want the thermal isolator (air) in the end of the system and not at the choke, flux or critical point of ingress like the radiator connector. we build literal traps for gasses above connectors of critical systems to avoid anything but perfect transition of maximum flow calculated by bernoulli equation.
i just couldn't watch the "you think this or that" attitude and then going on some tangent. either get on the topic or don't make the video, jay.
@@sakatababa How would air bubbles in the barb (hose) end of the radiator impact dissipation of heat?
Unless the high point of the loop is @ the pump/ water block, there will be little if any impact to flow volume.
The downside of having a radiator mounted vertically with the hoses at the top is that air bubbles gather by the two tanks the barbs connect to and can lead to water trickling sounds and what some customers might confuse for pump whine.
The most important thing to avoid with a closed loop setup is having the water block/pump at a higher level than the top of the radiator. This can cause a big enough air bubble that the pump can't move water at all (or enough to cool the system). If the impeller isn't a magnetic levitation style, it can also destroy the pump if it's not getting water for lubrication.
Closed loop AIO coolers for desktop PCs don't deal with the coolant temperatures or pressures you may be familiar with.
Water temps over 50° C are pretty rare.
@@faceplants2 if you remember your bernoulli equation for flow dynamics, reduced diameter to pipe introduces buffeting that introduces cavitation that introduces more bubbles. also, reduces pressure past choke poin, increases pressure before choke point. turbulent flow is bad, very very bad. ever heard your water pipes vibrate when you turn the faucet too hard. yeah, that thing.
air is thermal isolator. bad for conducting. no bueno. should be avoided in critical ingress points. creating a pocket of hot liquid coming from conductive point (the hottest point in the system) before it gets to the radiator (the cooling element) is superb sabotage. it traps heat in an isolator (plastic pipe) and just keeps piling on, changes flow dynamics (in and of itself, that is secondary to the choke) and reduces thermal conductivity of the plate (like plugging exhaust in the car engine, same thing).
while i did work on systems from -40C to +320C most of my experience is with 10C-70C. and 24 years of building pc's tells me it is in the right ball park. just because i have an egineering degree does not mean i don't have extensive knowledge of computer systems. on the contrary, i currently work a cushy job as unix engineer in devops role for a major cable company. better pay, flexible hours, i get to live with my family and not some15 other guys for months at a time on a floating can.
it is a water/glycol mixture. it does change some physical properties of the liquid (like surface lubrication, thermal expansion, etc). and temperature over 50C isn't rare. non-idle cpu goes readily over that mark. and liquid needs to heat up to transfer that heat away from the cpu to the radiator to, well, radiate it in ambient air. system works not with introducing cold liquid but with taking heat away.
i should've been more verbose the first time and just get it over. heck, a copy/paste would suffice...
@@sakatababa I couldn't make it through your entire post. I would appreciate some brevity in the future. The phenomenon you're describing is water hammer.
I'm still dubious as to whether you are as well versed in this subject as you propose to be because you are emphasizing things that are of trivial nature in the context of closed loop desktop, PC liquid cooling solutions.
Whatever systems you were familiar with working on, surely you acknowledge that context, constraints and application are key
I just bought my first AIO for my next build and this was IMMENSLY helpful! Thanks for laying this out so well! :) 👍
same here
me too
best way cus top is the exost port and back so ur heting it up a little i say in front for cool air intake but up side down so air is on top and liwied and hose on bottom and if u payed over 200 to 300 and ur pump cant pump a foot up then its trash cus i deal with pumps all time and depending on size thay all ment to pump up but some like small one only ment to pump a foot up for like a small water founting or somthing like that or even a aio
Same here.
Yeah I just fitted my first AIO in the last 2 days and even though it's at the top with an inlet pump I wanted to watch this again.
8:18 - You hear motor humm? No, I hear 80's hip hop beat.
I wish the music cut out when that happened.
I do kind of wish the music was cut for this part, too. I'm wondering if that's a consequence of this video possibly being edited with headphones.
Considering they've been pumping out a video a day, with a 3 man crew, for this whole month I'm not going to sweat it
Thank you! I was literally about to comment and ask why they would put music during a part where they want us to hear a difference in sounds.
@@Ragnorok64 Then why not use headphones for that part 😋. I'm just being facetious lol as it's 3 am here although it was audible over speakers - it was just barely at the volume on my mini amp at the lowest setting (PC, TH-cam and Browser volume at 100%). The sound also depends on the quality of the headphones too so if a person has crappy headphones they won't have much luck. It'd be best for Phil to just cut out the music for similiar scenarios in the future.
Same.. going to get my eyes tested tomorrow
When some of Tech Jesus disciples start spreading stuff again that they haven't even understood 50% of, Tech Godfather has to pimp slap them once in a while.
Huh. Just like regular Jesus.
th-cam.com/video/U5d1K0JcgIs/w-d-xo.html
And that is to absolutely no fault of steves. You give them the info, and they still cant be bothered to learn.
They dont even have to google it lol.
@@ValkyrieTiara the comment isnt about tech jesus, its about tech jesus followers, so your comment makes little sense, but people will like it, because crapping on religion is really popular right now. Gg.
@@imagineaworld Uh.... yeah, dude. That's the Joke. I'm specifically saying that Jesus' RL followers go around preaching without actually understanding anything Jesus said. Jesus' message was specifically about honoring God by loving your fellow man and putting others before yourself without judgement, but you have people shouting from the hilltops about how he hates gays and muslims. Cry more.
I want Jay to read toxic comments with his derpy voice. Then respond thoroughly on how they are wrong. I think it’ll provide for great content
I agree 😀@
JayzTwoCents
i want him to read all the comments with his derpy voice. news too. normal conversations too.
Yes!
LOL, sorta like Jimmy Kimmel's mean tweets.
Thanks for this video Jay! I built my first PC in 2005, my next in 2014, and now my third in 2023(but 1st water-cooled cpu). I'm a DIYer who likes to consider all possibilities and understand them so that I can 'get it right' for my application. So, I read a bunch of articles & watched many videos on AIO water cooler positioning. Yours was the best combination of science, fabrication, & practical application that I came across.
My main take-away:
A radiator mounted to the top of the case is best. It keeps any 'system air' in a shallow layer which is less likely to impede liquid flow and continues to allow maximum heat dispersion. (IF my case didn't allow it, I'd do a front or side mount ... ensuring the hose & pump remain lower than the highest point of the radiator. Good to understand the pros, cons, and key factors in this option.)
the sleeve does not stop permeation from the lines at all from happening💀💀
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ue I'm not sure why you think anyone is saying that. It doesn't stop permeation but it does help prevent abrasion causing a critical failure. It also serves as a minor heat shield
@@SepticFuddy well true but it's like the braided stainless steel rubber hose lines they have on the water lines at work and the boss is like there steel lines how can they leak like that and I have to tell him the steel braiding only stops the line from snapping off when it ruptures but it's not water proof so when the rubber line inside ruptures it still leaks so there are people that think the braiding should stop leakage when it does not it does help with abrasion but that is about it
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ue Yeah it's a bit silly that you have to explain that a braided material doesn't stop fluid lol
08:20 listen carefully!
background music still playing....
bruh.
That's the sound of this specific pump
You really didnt hear?
Steve : "don't have your pump on top of the loop, and if your tubes go up the air will settle on top and you'll hear a slight gurgle"
Internet : "ok so if my tubes go up my house will burn down"
Naaah, it won't burn. But it is gonna flood instead, because the air goes up, and the water seeps out at the bottom :P
Building my first AIO cooled computer, and this is the first I've ever heard about proper orientation. You've saved my computer before I've even built it. Thanks for the education!
So with 2 months of hindsight, how did the build go?
yeah, forward some link to pictures.. im curious too.!
@@alpha_th0t It went fine. Ended up realizing that even with the large case I have that there wouldn't be enough room for a side mounted AIO and a beefy GPU, so we went with a top mounted system. Still waiting for those GPU's to fall to a reasonable price, but other than that, it's done.
@@bizzarojerry probably going to be waiting for a LONGGG time
@@tyywitdalocs Don't I know it. But at least China has banned bitcoin mining, and the bottom has fallen out of the market. Card prices are starting to drop, and the GPU manufacturers are getting ready to launch the next generation. So supply will be booming!
Same applies to custom water cooling, i placed my pump unit in the basement of the case, sits lower than all the other components, this also helps with feeding it, i recommend people to get a large reservoir if you can, gravity helps a lot with feeding the pump instead of having the pump potentially having to suck liquid. Been using the same D5 pump unit for almost a decade, hardly has to do any work at all to move the coolant around my big tower with a triple rad on top.
"i put my mic near it so you guys can hear it" "do you hear that" - yes i hear background music...
Yeah, I feel like the editor needs a break. I can't remember his name ATM because I'm dead tired yet can't sleep
I want to say phil
@@CreativityNull bro, I'm also here unable to sleep.. what a coincidence 😴 night Phil
I think my noise filter filtered it
I have bad news for you. I even heard the humming with speakers. :D
Wish I had an AIO play some smooth background music in those orientations.
**Laughs in air cooled PC**
Edit: Welp, looks like I started a war.
Same
Laughs in 5800x and my friends ryzen stock cooler
*Laughs in peltier*
I used a NOCTUAH 12S air CPU cooler with 5600x
Noctua NH-U12A with 5900X
Are public schools these days not teaching “air rises” to kids anymore? I mean seriously
Nah they are to busy teaching to be "woke", never the fundamentals
@@emjayel206 Such an ignorant comment. You've been out of school for ages so how the hell do you know what they teach? Everyone should know that the system has pretty much stayed relatively the same.
@@earthphoenix5226 "Considering you to have been" ???
Jesus, I guess the school system has actually gotten worse since I left. They are even skipping basic grammar to teach liberal nonsense.
no
I think the confusion can be about how much force a pump needs to overcome the rising air. Especially when viewing videos about filling custom water loops and seeing the air being pulled through the loop.
This video's still going strong after a year, awesome. One thing I noticed with my 240 AIO, since I could monitor liquid temperature, is that having it as top mounted exhaust- my Asus TUF 3080 was heating up the air so much before it got pulled into the rad that during gaming.. my water would heat up 10-15 degrees, and the cpu temp would creep up to match. Moving the rad to the front alleviated that, and only increased the gpu temp a few degrees (since the TUF has insane cooling, it was a worthwhile tradeoff). I've since upgraded to a Lian Li Galahad 360 (and a 4080) and while I can squeeeeeze it into the front of my Fractal Meshify 2... barely, and not with the hoses down. I have it top mounted now, but depending on the heat next summer.. I might have to rethink that.
TL:DR - Generally mounting your rad on the front helps with cpu temp, and mounting on the top helps with gpu temp. If you have a FE or blower style cooler though, it's probably not enough of difference to be concerned with they blast most of the hot air out the back of the card as opposed to in the case... but if you have an aib card definitely check your temps. I noticed a much more significant difference in temps vs even when Jay himself did a video about it
so you would generally reccomend mounting the aio to the front where possible? or is that more for specific coolers and cpu+GPU setups? in my case im running an amd ryzen 5950x with a stock cooler and an evga 1080ti. Had bought a 240mm aio to replace the stock cooler, which after testing is keeping cpu temp at around 70c maxed out and a couple extra fans blowing out the top, but discovered it wouldnt work for my setup as the top of the case lacks sufficient clearance and the front isnt compatible with it due to having drive bays for 2.5"SSD/3.5"HDD and disk readers. planning on getting a new case sometime in january, I think I've settled on a thermaltake view 71 series full tower case, which will have more than enough space for a 240mm aio, as well a new huge ass 40 series gpu when the time comes for that.
@@AtrociousAK47 I guess it really depends on how your case and components all interact together. Front fan intake and top aio exhaust will always favor the video card, at the expense of CPU temps-and vice versa. Most of the time the differences are in degrees, and cpus under gaming load generally have more headroom to run a bit warmer.
Just so Im clear you got the 4080 in your Fractal Meshify 2 case? Rad at the top and fans in the front? I have the same case and want to keep it.
@@markallen3856 Yeah there's lots of room. I have the Gigabyte Gaming OC, which is one of the bigger 4080s. It's about 14 inches long which leaves just over 4 inches between the back of the card and the front of the fans.
@@shawn2780 Most of my fans are at the front (cause Corsair 4000X things) and it actually manages to build up enough cool air in that area to reach my RAM, so I think the 3 fans at the front should be enough for my PC temps to be balanced throughout.
Steve explained this perfectly in 375 hours of detailed analysis..don’t see where the confusion is coming from 😂
There is no confusion, there is missinformation mate :)
Because they skipped the video, or copied what other said, did you just skip this video yourself ? :P
he makes his videos too long winded and boring and it is extremely tempting to skip parts of them.
@@valdezapg not his fault that you skipped? If you skipped then sounds like his contents not for you, but again not his problem
This is a common problem with his videos.
Twice longer as they should be.
He should hire someone who edit his scripts, and rewrite in more accesible/shorter way. Like Jay here explain same thing with a lot less talking.
People don't wanna watch 30 minutes video, for things which can be explained in 5 minutes.
I personally stop watching his channel because of it.
My sediments exactly.
Can't wait for someone else to do a TL;DW for this video, for the world's craziest telephone game.
In a couple of years the conclusion will be that the bottom spot is the best
itll become a meme at that point. then comes the meta tiers...
Content leaching is youtubes best game for second tier creators
*paging Linus*
I nominate Linus, then Kyle needs to do a TL:DW of the TL:DW of the TL:DW.
Instructions unclear. Radiator is now full of urine.
Going to flame other tech tubers with "ur doing it wrong, watch JayZ"
I was going to say the same thing, LOL
roflmao 😗...
I just purchased a 360 AIO, been sitting, scratching my head for an hour unable to fit it tubes down... this video just saved my day. This channel has saved the day several times now actually. Thanks!
Music plays in the background...
Jay: Do you hear the motor humm?
Lol I was thinking the same thing. The editor should have qued in there
Just raise the volume. You can hear it clearly
I can hear it clearly while Jay is screaming in my ear. They should have killed the music. I shouldn't have to crank the volume.
Thanks a lot Jay! 🙏🏼 These people are so annoying to "correct" me over and over again, because "Steve said this is wrong, you idiot"...
It's still a bad idea as the air pocket at the top of the radiator limits water flow into the outlet of the radiator. You still shouldn't leave the tubes up. As the AIO gets older there will be a point the water level is too low and where air will start getting into the pump yet. It's still best to leave the AIO on the top of the case for the best life span.
@@Skylancer727 Sure, but sometimes that's just not possible, for example in some NZXT cases (H210i, H510 Elite etc.).
@@Skylancer727 you didn't watch the video. The air pocket will be trapped in the inlet side. There is no physical way it can get back to the pump once it's trapped in the inlet of the radiator. Unless the bubble is so large that the radiator is almost empty.
My h100i pro actually did that when I ran into placement issues in my meshify c.
@@ITRaidDE then get better cases lmao.
So, I take it folks missed Steve's line about tubes up being mostly an acoustic problem huh?
Yep, I think the takeaway was tubes up = bad for a lot of people. Listening is so hard...
Yeah, I was wondering that myself
Not acoustic it can affect the pump too though but not as much but can
@@viperlife914 it’s almost like you didn’t watch this video
@@viperlife914 you're replying on every comment like you know it but basing from your responses you still didnt understand.
Very clear and direct explanation thank you! Makes sense. I like the radiator on top also because heat rises and better to blow the hot air out from the top. Also keeps the radiator and hoses away from the graphics card. The radiator on the front does look cooler with RGB LEDs as long as the radiator high point is above the pump.
I thought the heat rising thing was important myself, but from what I've since heard about PC cases and heat is that the effect of heat rising is negligible in the presence of case fans.
@@charlesurias yes this is a good comment here, because there are different type of fans, push/pull, static or pressure, etc., and if the fans are moving the air towards the exhaust fan point then exactly it's negligible because pressure is created for the air to move to that point. But, if OP for instance only has the AIO as the exhaust point, and air is oscillating inside the case, then yeah OP's set up would prove more effective. Really comes down to how the fans are set up. for me for instance, I have an NZXT H1 V2, I flipped the fan and radiator so that air is coming from the outside in, and I made fan mods for additional exhaust out. So, I have no other air besides the CPU air being pushed into the case, or from the GPU, while all my other fans are exhaust out (5 total, 3x 40mm, 1x 40mm, 1x 80mm). So far creating this dynamic I have seen reduction in CPU temps, and little to no change from advised 7900XT temps. My radiator is also configured as push rather than pull.
People put the rad in the front so that it gets the cool air from outside the case. Top mount would suck all the hot air from the gpu and.
Heat does not rise in a PC case with fans. Only in a completely passively cooled case, which an AIO would never be in.
If you put the radiator on the top, you are getting air that's ran through by gpu, thus hotter air
A case of “I can explain it to you but I can’t make you understand it”
The way you used the most essential details and fully explained them, leaving nothing out but without making it too complicated, was super well done.
Jay needs to start a channel called 'gamers nexus simply explained'
GamersNexus for dummies
@@laurikuusisto5580 I respect the hard work they do, but I wait for other youtubers like jay or linus to explain the stuff they say because I understand nothing from their long and boring (to me) videos
@@Seif_Morsi I usually watch all of the above mentioned channels. Jay for fun and easy, Linus for the normie version and GN for the detailed version with lots of numbers. And then there is the matter of Buildzoid on AHOC... That's the real shit. Like deep. But ranty and without numbers. Like this comment. Where was I going with this? Well whatever. Love them all but for different reasons ❤👍
GamerNexus Redux
@@laurikuusisto5580 I was gonna call it the same thing
Me wondering “who tf is Steve?”
Me wondering the video I watched a few video before this was the “steve” that the community been referred to rather than Minecraft's Steve
tl;dr: Is your pump the highest point in youre AIO's fluid loop?
No -> You're good.
Yes -> You stuffed up.
But what if the tubing is above the pump and radiator? 🤔
@@FuckedUpGenius Doesn't matter
Wouldn't it be tl;dw ?
I stuffed up. I had asked Corsair if it can go in front in the front (a 240 in a 750D), and they replied with Bison saying YES!. I didn't think it was right though because the pump was a little above. Fortunately, I didn't use the system that much because of board issues until I replaced it. I hope I haven't damaged it. I put the rad back on the top again where I originally had it.
Half the noobs will be like: Where the frikkin feck is the pump. Can't see it!
It blows my mind how people aren't comprehending this. Don't have your pump be the highest point in the loop. It's really not complicated.
Maybe they are new to the idea of liquid cooling pumps in computers. I built computers for 20 years, but stopped in 2007 and water cooling your system was in it's infancy so I knew what it was, but had only seen pictures of hard-line systems. AIOs didn't exist at the time.
Welcome to the new world where people don't actually learn anything, they just regurgitate stuff they see online.
@@coolhwhip86 its so true.. i made ram appear!!!!
Blows my mind more that people don't realize that if you put the tubes to the bottom, then air WILL get trapped in the pump.
In that position the rad and pump make a 'V' where both the pump and the tubeless side of the rad are at high points and both will collect air...
@@Joreel I totally agree with that. Honestly, if I hadn't seen Beve's video it may not have occurred to me either. I was more referring to people who have watched the tutorial and aren't quite grasping the concept yet.
Would be nice if they turned off the little background music when they're trying to emphasize low-level sounds made by the unit
Heard it just fine. Turn up your volume, open your ears.
@@Witcher21 woosh
@@BigShawarma woosh
@@ssccoottiinnoo 🗿🤡
@@BigShawarma woosh
This was immensely helpful. I wanted to mount a 360mm AIO on top as an exhaust cuz I wanted cool air for my GPU, but I was confused by all the discussion out there and thought the top might be bad. Turns out it's the best and I can move on with my build. Thanks Jay!
top mounted also cools the gpu, but get a little hotter because of it, for more cpu cooling you can mount it in the front or side with the tubes on the bottom.
but ive mounted mine on the top aswell, so thats completely valid and a perfect spot
If I recall, Steve also attacked NZXT and others for front mounting (tubes up) with the pump still below the barbs in marketing material and photos - and I think this added to the confusion. We made a video about this as well and walked through that section of his video.
Well hey, Greg. Didn't expect to see you here, lol. Love your channel, too
This is seriously the kind of thing that gets my gears grinding. If you have to worry about that or shit starts leaking, you don't deserve to be in business. It's literally that fucking simple and i will start class actions against dickheads who think they can get away with scamming their customers like this.
Seriously.
This shit is /not/ even in the manual.
Do NOT try to use it to dodge responsibility when your product damages other shit.
That's because people who bought and still are buying prebuilds doesn't have the same knowledge as us.
They don't know that they have to make sure to lead the air towards the radiator, so it won't get trapped in the pump.
NZXT didn't provide any manual or guide regarding this matter and therefore getting attacked by Steve, which he explicitly said in his video.
casually promoting your own video under his video...not a nice move tho
@@mathiaseichenseer9047 Ion think he was promoting, rather I believe he was stating
Jay: People skipped to the end of GN's video and aren't informed
Me: Skips to 16:09
Jay: To recap, do this
Me: Thanks daaaaaaaad
I would love for Jay to be my dad
jesus, why doesn't he just show it against a motherboard. He's flipping it everywhere lol
thanx bro
@@e47kz Yeah if he would take an ATX motherboard and showed the offset of the processor where it is on the motherboard, that would be better. I have a case with 2 HD cages in the topfront. Then the radiator goes under that. Then you do get the situation that the processor is the highest point of the loop. But with cases without anything in the front, then the 360 radiator is just fine upside down in there.
thanks Lone Wolf Ex hahahah
this saved me time... Jay always talks too much (maybe for the content length)...
I keep saying to people, "thanks for incorrecting me."
Ok, so small add. Pump is not working harder with air. It's working easier. And that's the problem. Any pump has a range of viscosity of what it is meant to pump. When it pumps something that is easier to propulse, than what it's made for - it starts revving up cause it doesn't have enough resistance. Which does lead to overheating, bearing ware cause of overclocking basically and ofcource the valve failure inside of the pump. This pumps are puny, so it doesn't damage THAT fast. But for drainage pumps, sewage submersive pumps, even for your kitchen's garbage disposal unit - it just can't go dry unless you want to almost instantly break it. This is why you should always have things like air separators and flow sensors.
"do you hear that"
BGM continues to play
so true.... i heard nothing and i was trying to turn off my music for some reason (which was his BGM video XD)
:D
Jay I love the fact that you and Steve are more than willing to quote, reference, and refer to each other on a regular basis. Just goes to show that you both have the bigger picture at heart 💜
8:13
Jay: you can hear the pump
me: no stop the fucking music
I've had numerous people tell me that I was doing it wrong, I've always mounted facing above because liquid is denser than air... But apparently even simple things like that float above their heads, thanks for the videos, recently found your channel learning lots and touching up lots of information, I've been out of the tech game for 4 years, but I'm back!
you can mount it that way, its just not the best solution, its the "i cant install the aio any other way" solution
corsair for example explicitly states that in their aio faq, pump never highest point, but if possible tubes always on the bottom or the aio top mounted
What a great explanation!!!!!! Not only did you give me peace of mind about my build (first one using an AIO), you also educated me quite a bit on the mechanics of liquid cooling.
Mad respect for Jay not only defending another youtuber but also scolding his own viewers who probably went and spread misinformation, hes like a father who makes us a better person in the end. Hes daddy Jay
Sure, except if you watched both, Jay actually kinda disagrees with Steve and is scolding viewers for accurately interpreting what Steve showed.
@@MVicarious Exactly, Even if Steve is wrong its still a shitty situation for your viewers to go off and bother another youtuber on your behalf, thats how you become hated in a community and invite drama.
Man... That last sentence was cringe.
@@bobos245 ye its suppose to be 😂
Jay spreads misinformation my friend XD not only i this video too
Title: Stop doing this
Thumbnail: This is fine
Me: *visible confusion*
You’ll only understand if you’ve seen the other videos saying how not to use you inter cooler. There videos say not to do it so he’s mimicking the videos
@@TempEdits Or he's saying don't "be a dick, (especially one that's wrong)"
He's saying to stop telling people they're doing it wrong because it's fine to have the aio oriented the way he's demonstrating.
Was this a joke?
theres like a “this is fine” comment.
Just found your channel. This is extremely helpful having just bought my first AIO. The only thing I don't understand is: Who is Steve? Not kidding.
The 22 people who disliked this video are the same people he was talking about.
Absolutely right 👍
They're probably the guys who shared Steve's video and claimed he did it wrong. (It's 61 now)
Truee...🤣🤣🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@rmarca8306
101 now
I work on pumps for a living, I dislike the video because thats not what I am worried about. Pump cavitation is what we are worried about.
Whenever a video starts with the phrase "idiots guide" it immediately feels like this content is for me
It's... it's almost like the engineers that designed the AIO's went to school, and learned how to engineer things like this.
@Vinicius no, he said not to mount the AIO so that the highest point in the loop is the pump. just take solace in the fact that if you mount your AIO with the hoses down they likely wont be long enough for your misunderstanding to cause a problem. i.e allow you to mount the pump higher than the highest point of the radiator.
@Vinicius he just says that air bubbles may occasionally enter the pump but they will cycle through and not get stuck there. Depending on how much fluid is left it may cause a little bit of noise or thermal degradation but didn’t have any data to support that.
@Vinicius better take a look at Steve's revisit video because what you are saying is wrong. So long as the pump isn't the highest point in the loop, you are good to go.
Air is less dense than water, so it will always end up floating on top of the water. If any part of the radiator is higher than the pump, thats where it will accumulate instead of the pump. Where the barbs and hoses are doesnt change that one bit.
Ahhhhhhhhhh maybe not Enermax. Three generations of the same AIO and still can't get them to last longer than 6 months before complete failure.
Pretty sure they got their engineers from some low income housing projects slum lord where they don't necessarily operate under any best practices or safety regulations, or functionality, whatsoever.
Buying something from Enermax is more of a lease, with a specified end date. You get an AIO for as long as the warranty lasts and not much more.
@Vinicius owned
I legit was going to change out my AIO and it def helped that you used the same one that i have currently. I thought something was wrong with it and turns out that the sound (of an old drain) that im hearing is probablly just air staying in the top. Very clear and easy explation, thank you.
Angry Jay is one of the best Jays
Explained it perfectly!!!! kudos Jay!!!
What does your name mean?
@@augustbiernbaum4841 I think it means "Do you know this?"
@@augustbiernbaum4841 yeah that is right. that's a tagalog question that means "Do you know this?"
tama
@Travis Clark looks cool 😎 and stays cool 😎 rad on top ftw
I need a poster of Jay delivering the line "The salt is warranted."
Don´t forget the T-Shirt and Hoodie merch. "Righteous Salt" would be fine too.
saved this years ago and revisted when i got hold of a system with an aio.
super quick and easy explanation; just couldn't remember which way around it went.
thanks much Jay
08:14 so you guys can hear it.. listen
me: oh nice the pump makes background music
Lmao
You can't have no air in the system whatsoever, its the same as completely filling a gearbox with oil or a bearing with grease, it will lock as there is no give in the system. It actually needs a small amount of air else the impeller will lock. Thanks for the tip on hoses, its 2:30am, typically I think of this now but I'll check my builds tomorrow.
'So what are you doing for New Years Eve?'
'I'm remounting my AIO because it's been fitted the wrong way for over 2 years and it's suddenly causing me major anxiety'.
'Uhuh...'
Its too late now. Continue...
With tubes bottom vertical mount if you were to inject air into the tube (or pump) the path "up" would actually be into the pump, not down against buoyancy to the bottom of the rad.
Assuming the permeation happened only in the radiator that wouldn't be an issue, but I have to assume it would mostly occur in the tubes or fittings not so much the rad.
A rad leak would be just that, an actual leak (just like a car)
My assumption is the rate that it happens is so slow that just the flow can carry that very small amount of air (not enough to break a vacuum across the cross section of the tubing) thru the loop until it decides to join another mass of air where natural displacement is more likely to occur (the natural highest point in the entire loop where a vacuum could not exist).
There is a certain delta of force, pressure, etc that would have the air move thru the system just like you would see when trying to siphon with a hose.
So I am not disagreeing that the tubes down might be the best, but in a vertical mount situation I think I would go tubes up with the pump as low down as possible by comparison to eliminate the possibility of the pump ever being the highest point relative to any connection or position within the loop.
This is my I.T. Engineer brain at work, but obviously I have not tested the theory in a real life situation, but could easily recreate this test and show the results as outlined above in a theoretical situation.
Me, an intellectual: Air coolers have been using air for years, you have nothing to worry about.
Air don't like u
You have to mount the fan below the air cooler so the air can rise!
@@mostlypeacefulrowan8747 You can mount the fan wrong and it happens quite often from what I hear. :)
There are many people who don't know the orientation of their fans :) obviously the arrows don't help
I don't recommend AIO's to my less tech-savvy peers, for they are usually not better in cooling performance than a good Aircooler, more things can go wrong, and they are more expensive. A good Aircooler can be just as quiet as well.
"can you hear this really quiet noise" - video with background music
Yea its annoying
Bl**dy infuriating I'd say: Please MUTE THE BACKGROUND MUSIC when you're trying to get something quiet across to us! Useful video apart from that.
Thanks for your input on this Jay! So many people argue and be confused about this topic! Happy New Year!
That’s genz for you with there nzxt cases with 1 hole on the top
@@exo-zaddy4886 Before anything else I clicked on your YT display picture :(
Right? Super good
Ppm for air measurement...I think
@@mperry2384 nah, air is measured volumetrically. It would be cc's
Just got my first AIO, and while this doesn't really apply to me since I'm mounting it on the top, it's still good info to have. Thanks!
"Bubble goes Blalalalalalaaa..."
- Jayz 2020
after watching GN people became AIO experts
after watching jay people are now AIO masters
Jay is like a disappointed parent scolding their idiot child this whole video and I love it.
That’s gen-z for u lmao
Thanks a lot that was very clear...
*Jay tries to convey important information*
Also Jay: The AIO goes blululululu
I mean how else can you convey such a sound?
He needs to get down to a level where the targeted audience can still follow!
@@Krydolph well I definitely understood what he meant
Talk to any motorcycle rider or mechanic and they talk with sounds like that. We understand certain things make sounds like that. Helps diagnose issues
@@pcracer2 make sense. Certain parts and mechanics would make different sound depending if I spins, has a fluid etc.
So what was the final outcome .... I didn't watch the whole video.
Use air cooler.
😂😂😂
Make sure your pump is at least 2 feet higher than the radiator.
Lol good one
I didn't watch the whole video either. kinda rambled for awhile repeating himself and trying to express pump above radiator bad.
i love how the background music kept playing while we're trying to listen to minute sound changes in something that's hard to hear....
buy better headphones
@@Kaygoooo It has nothing to do with his headphones, it's just annoying when there is background music when you're trying to hear the pump
@@Kaygoooo give them the money
Man, I'm so glad you made this video. I know I'm late to the party but, I watched your Sup-01 build a few days ago, then today I watched Steve's AIO video and I was like, 'did Jay install his cooler wrong?' 'Does the Sup-01 not support a properly installed AIO?' Who's right? LOl I had more questions than answers after watching Steve's video. So thank you for this!!!
Recap, 16:09
Only for AIOs with pump mounted on the CPU
Is there any other kind?
@@schm147 the kind where the the pump is in the radiator or the tube
@@razi1992 I have ordered a MSI CoreLiquid 240R, what are optimal mounting options...?
@@walidkhan8780 Upside down. This model is only for the Australian market.
"The bubble's moving in there like a bubble level you would see in...ah..in a level"
I want that on a t-shirt because that's freaking awesome.
That is what suddenly gave me the idea of propping up the font end of my case by about 1/4 inch. It could hear the "bubble noise" at startup after about 6 weeks after purchase. It would go away after about 3 minutes tho. So i put a level on my case and found that my desk on carpet was not level but allowed the tube end of the radiator to be a touch higher. Haven't had the sound since I did this.
Best solution for pump hum, have kids you'll never hear it over them 😂
I've had my cpu AIO mounted "wrong" for 5+ years. Overclocked and never had a single issue lmao. Calm down people.
Not many people know of Jay's side gig, where he translates GN Technobabble into Plebian.
GN is the best channel of its kind in my opinion, but it's certainly a lot more techie and data oriented, resulting in long video run times. I have no trouble watching Steve's videos from start to finish, but it's annoying (yet understandable) to see how eager people are to skip over large sections in them and go straight to the conclusions. JayZ's last 30 seconds of this video was a genius conclusion.
@@Tekel-Upharsin Steve is kind of a special character IMO. He is extremely knowledgeable, incredibly methodical in his testing approach, and very much focused on the details. I can totally understand though, why some people think that he comes off as condescending, even if he isn't. And, as you said, I think it's at least understandable why people would skip through his content. It's just the reality of how audiences function and that can't be ignored, which is why Videos like these are important.
@@DamnZodiak yep I think you nailed it. Steve and Jay seem to get along very well so maybe in an unexpected way their channels compliment each other - one for data, data, and more data and the other to make said data more "accessible" to the less tech savvy and/or "goldfish" (lol) audiences.
Now for months of "Well Jay said it isn't the best way, so you're wrong."
But he is right, it is basic physics. You may need a reminder that it applies here too (duh), but in the end it is just basic physics.
Super cool that it is 100% identical to automotive cooling systems (minus the thernostat) and made it easier for me to understand.
What about graphics cards? My hybrid is mounted with the pipes on the bottom. Should I flip it around?
3 biggest problems in the world: corona, climate change and aio mounting.
*4: weebs
@@ryck0272 on you asss
and 4 finding a GPU at retail price lol
@@twistedflapjack9738 Right :D
Steve EXPLICITLY in his video says, that even if the pump is several inches lower than the top of the tank you can get more pump noise because bubbles accumulating by the barbs will get sucked through the tubes with the coolant. Section starts at 18:34 and goes to 19:44.
The take-away from this video is, though, that as long as your pump is just a bit below the rad you're fine. You will not destroy your pump. Worst case, you might get a bit of noise, but that's ok since it would be caused by air in your rad, not in your pump.
It's the product of that plexi contraption. Once the loop is settled bubbles cannot get sucked all the way down the radiator and back up again to the radiator outlet.
Jay: "Jay's touch"
Me: Trembles with excitement.
When you have already removed your pants before you realize its just going to be a AIO
@@tomr3422 jokes on you, I'm into that shit
go to horny jail
Thank you! I literally just saw Steve’s in depth video last night and did like you said skipped to the end and thought I had my aio mounted wrong. I was dreading the work involved with reorienting my radiator. Thanks for clearing this up!
Now we have to tell people who are telling people to watch Steve’s video to watch Jay’s video lol.
Me laughing in Wraith Stealth air cooler.
The fact that you even had to make this video to explain that air rises.
Air does not rise, everything else sinks first.
@@wuestenfuchsxy not everything, just things denser than air
@@XX-pp3bx true
"You're doing it wrong!"
Jay: "Watch my basic physics video."
We need another video to suppliment this one
This was the best tech video I've seen in my life. Very straight forward, informative and not boring at all. Not once had I the urge to fast forward.
As someone who worked on an aircraft carrier as a mechanic, the intuition of fluid systems isn't something electrical/electronic folks get by applying their own logic lmao. Thanks for the explanation, I felt bad after watching Steve's video, but this makes so much more sense with what I understand!
same here. i work in sewage and water... half of what steve said... its said he never hired any engineers on his staff... (as of written zero)
Wow, I want to give massive credit to steve at GN, Becuase he does a ton of hardwork and diligence.
But I did not easily understand what he was communicating.
Thanks for taking the time to have that Radiator and move it around to make it more clear to me.
it would be interesting to see a collab custom build with you two, instead of always at competition (which I also enjoy watching)
Happy New Year!
same
Thumbnail: this is fine
Title: stop doing this!!
4 years later, i just saw this. i got a 240 AIO together from cyberpower pc and they put it in front with the cpu being higher than the radiator. been running the i7 9700k since 2018 at 4.7Ghz and never stopped. heard those noise, specially at start but always thought it was common. 6 years working heavily, will update this when i get home