For most of us, the question arises when contemplating the purchase of a C2 or C3 corvette. In what condition is the birdcage? Any pointers about what to look for when inspecting one to buy? Other than a good look at the kick-ups, door hinge areas, rocker panels, and windshield frame? Obviously, lots of outfits from Art Morrison to Corvette Correction are manufacturing frames, but without taking the body apart, there doesn't seem to be any sure fire way to avoid a rusty birdcage (except the old "door lift" method) especially if the seller has gone out of his way to hide it. Great and informative video, sir.
Thanks Steven and that’s a great question. So I have bought a few cars where the seller said one thing and after I had it under really close investigation I found that some of the things were lies. Like “perfect floors” “quarters were never replaced”. Those were on steel cars. So when looking at a car I would almost treat the car like it’s guilty until proven innocent. So assume the birdcage has issues. Then look for evidence to say that it doesn’t. The door lift is a good one. I would open and close the doors a few times. Really watch the doors. See if the striker pulls them up or pushes them down. They are old cars but you shouldn’t have to slam them. I would look for any bubbling of paint. Look at all the door gaps to make sure it’s not sagging. Check the core support and the frame. If the frame is really really pitted then the bird cage is probably soft. Most cars are probably decent but be aware that bad rust could be lurking below lol
Hi Mitch.... I'm new to your channel. I have a '70 convertible, but I'm very interested in acquiring a C2 project for a build. So your channel is really interesting to me. I too have a channel, so I know a thing or two about youtube. Your vids are very, very good. You "come across" well: Intelligent, articulate, and intriguing. A delight to watch. I'll be binge-ing your channel for some days now, LOL... Take care, Dr. Lee
Thank you I appreciate that a lot! I will have to check out your channel. You have quite the following! My channel is slowly growing. 70’s are nice. I like those cars. I come across C2 projects from time to time. Are you looking for anything in particular? You can email me at midyearmitch@gmail.com
that must be a Pretty energetic Owner of the Car to be a Amuteur and have stripped off so much of the .bodyfromthe Birdcage !that’s Impressive for the average Backyard Mechanic or Weekend Warrior to take on and stay onTrack my Dad collected Corvettes for many years and i always thought the Birdcages were way more metal that surrounded and protected the Passenger Compartment way more i’m a fan of the C3 body styles and always gave my Dad greif for liking the C4 s mainly because whenChevy switched to that model in 84 they had so many issues with reliability from the Electronics and the Computers they didn’t workout from the Factory i knew a guy that waited for the 84 a couple of extra years because Chevy kept saying it was going to be the AmericanSupercar with all those Gadgets like the AntiTheft System and Computerized Ride Control ,DigitalDashboard guages etc that freind of mine when he did get the new car it wouldn’t start on most day in his Driveway and the car needed to be Flat beddded to the Dealership on a Rollback Truck that weren’t that common in the mid 80s as most Tow Truck Companies still used the Rubber Slings for MetalBumpered Cars and you had to wait extra for them to send the Rollback to your location !My Freind wound up getting a 4 Door Citation as the Dealer Loaner car and wasn’t the happiest guy about driving one of the Ugliest cars of the era when he paid for a brand new Corvette that was the last Corvette he ever bought
Really loving the channel as I am just building a repo C2 so need lots of help .Do you know the dimension from underside of frame to bottom of door so I can do a check Thanks
The C3 coupe has a bit more than that. I have owned five C3 coupes, and currently have a 1975. Original southern AZ car and completely rust free. Be very careful when buying a 1976 or later model, as they also have steel floors which are highly prone to rust.
Good call. The birdcage still serves the same purpose in the C2 and C3. It holds the glass, doors, fiberglass, and controls. That’s the main job. That’s all I was getting across.
@@MidYearMitch Yes it does. But when buying a used car, birdcage and windshield frame rust can be almost impossible to find. You can get a pretty good look at the frame and suspension parts under the car, but the birdcage is hidden. All my cars (over a 20+ year period) were original AZ cars and I never found any serious rust.
@@paulmoss7940 Yes the '77 was an oddball, but I have owned 2 of them without significant problems. It depends on the condition of the car. If everything is ok, it should be alright. If you buy a project car that will need a lot of parts, those parts can be very expensive and sometimes impossible to find. It also depends on whether you want the car factory perfect, or are willing to accept a few modifications to make everything fit and work.
Check out Ecklers Corvette, they make all kinds of stuff for repairing bad sections of the birdcage and also their fiberglass body parts are second to none.
Careful with ecklers. Last time I ordered from them my credit card was stolen shortly after. I use corvette world or zip. They share a lot the parts anyways.
@@MidYearMitch Any businesses system can be hacked, it could just as easily happen to Corvette World as Ecklers, that's just an unfortunate reality of the way things work in this day and age.
C2 and C3 bird cages are different although they serve the same purpose and look very similar. The C3 bird cage actually sits lower on the frame. The windshield is laid back more, the door openings are different sizes. There are a lot of differences but they still follow the same principle.
That frame wasn’t really that bad. It had a couple soft spots but overall it was nice. It’s the original frame to the car. Also new frames are 5-7 grand. My buddy is on a budget so I helped him out. I got the frame and suspension for the misfit basically for free from the 78 vs being 5k + suspension in the hole. Also I make videos on fixing things for everyone’s entertainment. I can’t make a video on buying a new frame. Where’s the fun in that? I’m the kind of person who likes to fix what he has not throw it away and start fresh.
There isn’t any hood fitment issues with the split window. The hood wasn’t latched in those shots. I don’t latch it when I park the car in the garage and I didn’t have it latched when I was driving at Carlisle because I was driving 5 minutes. I have a battery disconnect switch in there. I leave it open for quick access to that.
@@raycoutu9554 its a mechanical hood release.... its not like he's afraid that fully latching it on a dead battery will make it a PITA to open. its just convenience to eliminate a step when he wants to turn the battery switch on an off. the customer can latch the hood however they want.
Unfortunately the assembly manual doesn’t give any details on the birdcage. It gives frame details but that’s it. The official birdcage measurements are a mystery.
A lot of people think just because the cars are fiberglass they don't rust
Oh yeah absolutely. When in reality there are quite a few out there that are real rusty.
For most of us, the question arises when contemplating the purchase of a C2 or C3 corvette. In what condition is the birdcage? Any pointers about what to look for when inspecting one to buy? Other than a good look at the kick-ups, door hinge areas, rocker panels, and windshield frame? Obviously, lots of outfits from Art Morrison to Corvette Correction are manufacturing frames, but without taking the body apart, there doesn't seem to be any sure fire way to avoid a rusty birdcage (except the old "door lift" method) especially if the seller has gone out of his way to hide it. Great and informative video, sir.
Thanks Steven and that’s a great question. So I have bought a few cars where the seller said one thing and after I had it under really close investigation I found that some of the things were lies. Like “perfect floors” “quarters were never replaced”. Those were on steel cars. So when looking at a car I would almost treat the car like it’s guilty until proven innocent. So assume the birdcage has issues. Then look for evidence to say that it doesn’t. The door lift is a good one. I would open and close the doors a few times. Really watch the doors. See if the striker pulls them up or pushes them down.
They are old cars but you shouldn’t have to slam them. I would look for any bubbling of paint. Look at all the door gaps to make sure it’s not sagging. Check the core support and the frame. If the frame is really really pitted then the bird cage is probably soft. Most cars are probably decent but be aware that bad rust could be lurking below lol
Excellent post
Hi Mitch.... I'm new to your channel. I have a '70 convertible, but I'm very interested in acquiring a C2 project for a build. So your channel is really interesting to me. I too have a channel, so I know a thing or two about youtube. Your vids are very, very good. You "come across" well: Intelligent, articulate, and intriguing. A delight to watch. I'll be binge-ing your channel for some days now, LOL... Take care, Dr. Lee
Thank you I appreciate that a lot! I will have to check out your channel. You have quite the following! My channel is slowly growing. 70’s are nice. I like those cars. I come across C2 projects from time to time. Are you looking for anything in particular? You can email me at midyearmitch@gmail.com
that must be a Pretty energetic Owner of the Car to be a Amuteur and have stripped off so much of the .bodyfromthe Birdcage !that’s Impressive for the average Backyard Mechanic or Weekend Warrior to take on and stay onTrack my Dad collected Corvettes for many years and i always thought the Birdcages were way more metal that surrounded and protected the Passenger Compartment way more i’m a fan of the C3 body styles and always gave my Dad greif for liking the C4 s mainly because whenChevy switched to that model in 84 they had so many issues with reliability from the Electronics and the Computers they didn’t workout from the Factory i knew a guy that waited for the 84 a couple of extra years because Chevy kept saying it was going to be the AmericanSupercar with all those Gadgets like the AntiTheft System and Computerized Ride Control ,DigitalDashboard guages etc that freind of mine when he did get the new car it wouldn’t start on most day in his Driveway and the car needed to be Flat beddded to the Dealership on a Rollback Truck that weren’t that common in the mid 80s as most Tow Truck Companies still used the Rubber Slings for MetalBumpered Cars and you had to wait extra for them to send the Rollback to your location !My Freind wound up getting a 4 Door Citation as the Dealer Loaner car and wasn’t the happiest guy about driving one of the Ugliest cars of the era when he paid for a brand new Corvette that was the last Corvette he ever bought
Great job helping Hunter, he has a great story too. I have some rear hinge parts if you need them.
Yes he does have a great story. Thanks for the help! That will help get this cage get turned back into a car!
Awesome car. Just Subscribed! I make some videos about my C3.
Thanks man! I’ll check out your channel. I just bought a burnt 78 to use as a donor car for my race car C2 build.
@@MidYearMitch Nice, I'm excited to see it come along!
Really loving the channel as I am just building a repo C2 so need lots of help .Do you know the dimension from underside of frame to bottom of door so I can do a check
Thanks
The C3 coupe has a bit more than that. I have owned five C3 coupes, and currently have a 1975. Original southern AZ car and completely rust free. Be very careful when buying a 1976 or later model, as they also have steel floors which are highly prone to rust.
Good call. The birdcage still serves the same purpose in the C2 and C3. It holds the glass, doors, fiberglass, and controls. That’s the main job. That’s all I was getting across.
And the 77, which has many one year interior parts.
@@MidYearMitch Yes it does. But when buying a used car, birdcage and windshield frame rust can be almost impossible to find. You can get a pretty good look at the frame and suspension parts under the car, but the birdcage is hidden. All my cars (over a 20+ year period) were original AZ cars and I never found any serious rust.
@@paulmoss7940 Yes the '77 was an oddball, but I have owned 2 of them without significant problems. It depends on the condition of the car. If everything is ok, it should be alright. If you buy a project car that will need a lot of parts, those parts can be very expensive and sometimes impossible to find. It also depends on whether you want the car factory perfect, or are willing to accept a few modifications to make everything fit and work.
Hello Mitch, do you or anyone else sell C3 replacement rocker channels?
Did Chevrolet make the bird cage or out source it ??
They made them in house. There's a good documentary on TH-cam you can watch. Corvette: Story of a Sports Car
Where did the word rocker come from and why is it applied to parts of the birdcage?
Do they manufacture steel replacement parts for the birdcage...
Check out Ecklers Corvette, they make all kinds of stuff for repairing bad sections of the birdcage and also their fiberglass body parts are second to none.
@@dukecraig2402
Thanks for responding...
Careful with ecklers. Last time I ordered from them my credit card was stolen shortly after. I use corvette world or zip. They share a lot the parts anyways.
@@MidYearMitch
Any businesses system can be hacked, it could just as easily happen to Corvette World as Ecklers, that's just an unfortunate reality of the way things work in this day and age.
Is the serial # on drivers side rear rail visible with car on chassis and is it embossed ?.Does it match the full Vin #
This was a friends car. The frame was a bit pitted so I couldn't see the number. I would assume it matches. It was parked for a long time.
Is a 68 the same?
C2 and C3 bird cages are different although they serve the same purpose and look very similar. The C3 bird cage actually sits lower on the frame. The windshield is laid back more, the door openings are different sizes. There are a lot of differences but they still follow the same principle.
Why not buy an aftermarket frame?
That frame wasn’t really that bad. It had a couple soft spots but overall it was nice. It’s the original frame to the car. Also new frames are 5-7 grand. My buddy is on a budget so I helped him out. I got the frame and suspension for the misfit basically for free from the 78 vs being 5k + suspension in the hole. Also I make videos on fixing things for everyone’s entertainment. I can’t make a video on buying a new frame. Where’s the fun in that? I’m the kind of person who likes to fix what he has not throw it away and start fresh.
What is wrong with the hood fit on the red car?
There isn’t any hood fitment issues with the split window. The hood wasn’t latched in those shots. I don’t latch it when I park the car in the garage and I didn’t have it latched when I was driving at Carlisle because I was driving 5 minutes. I have a battery disconnect switch in there. I leave it open for quick access to that.
All that work, and your afraid to lacth the hood, do you tell customer to leave the hood open if you drive less than five minutes,
@@raycoutu9554 its a mechanical hood release.... its not like he's afraid that fully latching it on a dead battery will make it a PITA to open. its just convenience to eliminate a step when he wants to turn the battery switch on an off. the customer can latch the hood however they want.
TRUMP 2024
All the measurements are in assy. man. You can take it to a frame shop to get it tramed.
Unfortunately the assembly manual doesn’t give any details on the birdcage. It gives frame details but that’s it. The official birdcage measurements are a mystery.