The real weakness of Tobirama is that he was "born to soon". Of course Naruto/Kabuto/Minato's techniques are stronger. But that's only because those jutsus have had decades to evolve. Tobirama invented all of them, played with them for a few years, and then died. Compare this with the clone-jutsu which has been refined by countless ninjas through history. Tobirama is basically a caveman with a piece of flintstone. Naruto is a special-force soldier with a tactical stainless steel knife. Of course it's better, but it only exist because that caveman invented the flint knife first. You can't really compare 2 points on the same line...
good points.. plus tobirama had to live in an era of multiple wars. inventing justsus, and using them at the same time.. no time to practice during peaceful moments.. the generations after them, were given time to grow and learn and eventually be given light to moderate missions until they beccome full grown adults
I’m a Sasuke stan lol but I never thought of this before. It was right in my face and I didn’t see it. That’s a really really really big mention. How strong are these ninja if you buff them to the standards of more of their modern shinobi😮💨😮💨😮💨
Although, tobirama and hashirama are only, like, 3-4 generations older than narutos group. The show made it seem like they were so much older, like hundreds of years older than narutos group. The amount of evolution in the refinement of justu in narutos Era was refine by real geniuses for then to have come as far as they did in such a short amount of time. Tobirama is at most 150 years older than naruto. Assuming, Minato and kushina were roughly 18-20 when they had naruto and if Minatos parents were jiraya and tsunade, like a nice theory proposed, and they were 50 when naruto was 13. Then Hashirama is tsunades grandpa giving another 50 years between them then the warring states period of narutos world ended max 150 years before naruto was born. They aren't nearly as ancient as the show makes them seem
Nobody talks about Tobirama knowing about Kagutsuchi. When Naruto and Sasuke fire attacks at the 10 tails, Tobirama sees Sasuke's Kagutsuchi arrow and says, "I don't recall seeing Kagutsuchi of such magnitude". Implying that either Izuna or another Uchiha that Tobirama fought/took out, used Kagutsuchi (which would mean they have Amaterasu as well) and that says a lot about Tobirama's power.
Since itachi had it and sasuke had it, that might mean black flames of some kind could be genetic. Imagine tobirama killed sasuke & itachi’s great grandpa 😂
@@general6killer bro tsunade is really weak(I am not including 100 healings) I mean in part 1 she literally lose to kabuto And tobirama is strong still underestimate that he can't beat orochimaru, jiraya etc
@@ishmaelpierson7681 1 eyed revived Madara was also way stronger than Sasuke so your point doesn't really stand Edit:this comment is invalid since it talks about another edited comment.
There is just not enough information to know if second hokage could beat perfect susanoo. Sasuke had perfect susanoo before he got his 6 tomei rinnegan
@@itsmesteve1081 as others have said, tobirama has two options to beat perfect susano. The paper tags(used with shadow clones) which evaporated the deity gates which can restrain the ten tails and whatever water jutsu that cut the god tree's roots. THe latter cuts through sasuke unarguably as well. If tobirama touches sasuke beefore he uses susanoo, the susanoo is irrevelant since its not connected to sasuke and tobirama flat out has shown better speed than any sasuke pre-rinnegan, so who is to say he doesn't touch susano, warp it away, then neg sasuke?.
Alive tobirama uses mutually multiplying explosive tags as well. Tobirama stated it was his first time using the jutsu with his own body. While tobirama was alive he would summon corpses and use those bodies to perform the jutsu. It's just a common misconception he can't use the jutsu while alive.
@@ohboi9578 That doesnt make any sense. The moment the jutsu is activated, the Shadow Clone isnt needed. The shadow clone is only there to set it off. They can pop, and the jutsu will still go.
@@dungeon-wn4gw it needs to MOVE to a moving target. Thats why tobirama never used it with a clone. Papaer bombs need TIME to replicate themselves enough that it would make a significant damage. It is not an instaneous that's why you need a moving body to follow the target until the jutsu actually has enough fire power. Every other shinobi apart from six paths dudes would've run away the second they saw the paperbombs, it's literally common sense.
gaara pulled madara out of his susano using sand under his feet, which means the susano is an armor that is not attached to the persons body who is using it. so that means if tobirama makes physical contact with the susano he should be able to teleport it away to another location, or seperate them from it. Secondly, tobirama created his paperbomb jutsu for the edo tensei , its possible that the reason for orochimaru & kabuto bettering the jutsu could be because of how dark and wicked they were, to even want to attempt to to develop a jutsu that requires human sacrifice. this does not mean tobirama isn't smart enough to perfect it. he could have also been the one who made it a forbidden jutsu and discontinued it. so we should assume its apart of his jutsu arsenal & that he will use it if the reason is extremely important, such as protecting the leaf village by reviving a weakened person he could have killed . he should be able to summon an edo , activate the paperbomb jutsu and teleport away to avoid him self from being injured.
idk about that, they woulda showned it in the anime . Also susanoo is supposed to be a spirit armor meaning the caster can summon it anytime, i don't know if you can teleport it away. Even still, just to entertain your logic, it would be pointless as the uchiha in question could simply summon another susanoo armour
That version of susanoo was not the perfect form. Perfect susanoo is as big as Godzilla earth and has no openings like the version of susanoo you are talking about.
if he puts a mark on sasuke he can just teleport inside his susanoo and kill him since its defensive capabilities are only on the outside. hiraishin is just a broken jutsu that makes diferences in strength or abilities nearly meaningless.
@@smileyent.3055 yea but then they get speed get clapped as you force them to bring up the armor so save their asses and as it is about to hit the Sussanoo sorry you lost your amor good luck with this ninja nuke bye bye
@@thegreatestever913Bee didn't need to be saved at all in that fight 😂 the closest thing to saved he got was using his abilities as a perfect jinchuriki to get out of genjutsu
Tobirama is the back bone of Naruto. Even if you take away the jutsus and ninja related contributions he still has an insane impact on the story, culture and world of Naruto
Idk personally I put Tobirama above base Madara/ Hashirama. He consistently is faster than the two and has the AP to kill both (tandem paper bombs would kill either of the two being protected by their strongest defenses and severing waves is enough to bisect either outside of those). OTHER people would die use TPB, Tobirama teleports away. I think that statement is just a general “nobody can survive this,” but Tobirama isn’t a nobody The version of Madara who who disrespected Tobirama was amped above his alive self (I’m not counting Rinnegan since he only obtained the rinnegan before he died). Sasuke was also disrespected by Madara and it’s not like he was a weakened edo. I don’t want to go into scaling specific feats to compare the two because there’s no space for that but my impression is that Tobirama wins against basically most versions of Sasuke, save for everything past his sage/ rinnegan amps. What amps has Tobirama ever gotten from being a special child? Side note though: the finger flex between him and Hashirama isn’t really to show the difference in power between the two, I think it’s meant to show that Hashirama is the dominant one between the two as he was (1) 1st hokage, (2) leader of the clan (3) older brother. Hashirama IS stronger, but Tobirama was casually flexing chakra whereas Hashirama was shown to be spiking his rather seriously to control Tobirama. In either case, both of them could likely spike their chakra even further than what was shown, and Sasuke’s reaction wasn’t just from pissing off one more than the other, it’s that he was pissing off both and once Hashi did it he realized he had to check himself because two of the biggest badasses to have ever done it where threatening him and overall just showing how superior they were compared to everyone else in the room. Tobirama has insane levels of chakra, it’s just that Naruto and Hashirama has more. I’d suspect he had at least as much as Madara given how Madara needed Kyuubi to match Hashi’s level of chakra.
Its an interesting take, but i feel that narratively its not backed up at all. Izuna sort of implies his below madara "theres someone stronger than you older brother?" when he met hashirama, and the fact that it was always those 2 fighting one another, and never either against the older sibling. The fact madara keeps praising hashirama and doesnt praise tobirama (excluding the speed part, which is contentious) and the fact that when madara activates his perfect susano, tobirama is literally shook and as far as we know never tried to fight him whilst his brother was alive. ive always viewed it as SM Hashirama > Base Hashirama >~ EMS Madara > Tobirama, and maybe in speed tobirama exceeds both of them.
@@GeorgeMMA narratively Tobirama can’t kill any pre-rinne Sasuke or he isn’t stronger than base Hashi/ Madara? As far as physical feats go, he was on par with Hashi as edo in their fight against Hiruzen (actually, I think he has a stronger showing. Hashi mostly just used wood to immobilize Hiruzen while Tobi gave him the hands). Whether that’s stats or taijutsu ability is debatable. There’s nothing to suggest Hashi is more durable, just that he has massive regen which isn’t quite the same as durability. Hashirama is way stronger than Madara in sage mode and the only alive version of Madara that competes is rinne Madara. In base I don’t think there’s any wood jutsu Tobirama can’t cut through given his showing against the god tree and his severing wave was like a hot knife through butter (suggesting it would take something much more durable to even come close to stopping his jutsu). Also a single FTG seal on anyone would mean he could teleport paper bombs onto their bodies instantly. He has the speed necessary to do this and if his physical stats are in the ballpark (even if lower), they shouldn’t be killing him outright with taijutsu. I don’t see base Madara or Hashirama doing the things Tobirama did to any Juubi character. They all clearly became stronger from the time Izuna was killed, but if the potential is similar between the four, the only thing that separated them were EMS and Hashi getting sage mode meaning Tobirama should be comparable in base because of linear comparison and should be above in base based on feats. Madara needed all sorts of amps in the war without access to the kyuubi to do what he did to an edo Tobirama. And he only competed with Hashi before because of the kyuubi. Madara is also not a competent narrator when it comes to judging the power of other people because he has a bias for Hashirama. The only person who impressed him was Guy and he didn’t even say he was better than Hashirama, just that he was the best at taijutsu and that was having better showings against an even stronger version of him. There’s no way Madara would ever admit anybody is stronger than Hashirama, and his opinions are zero sum. If you’re not Hashirama you’re nothing. It’s just very dismissive and not really a reliable way to say how far or below someone is comparatively
@@GodKiller97 this was a good response and you actually really made me think about the edo fight against hiruzen, because even though they were both nerfed to shit, they were still relative with one another. again though for physical, does hiruzen not also say hashirama still has that "mighty strength" when nothing is said of tobirama? it seems to me the implication is that physically hashirama is much stronger. Yes and i agree 1000 percent about sage hashirama being stronger than any non amp version of madara (six and swag in the past have said ems madara scales over him which is absurd) while tobirama can cut through the god tree, it was still less of a scale than what hashirama normally uses. even though it regenerated, it was a smaller portion, while hashirama will shoot out significantly more wooden tendril things like with deep forest emergance, plus im curious as to how tobirama counters the poisonous flower, whilst fending off multiple tendrils, as well as golems, etc which have large destructive capabilities which realistically could kill tobirama, if a squadron of kinkaku/ginkaku and their men could (not saying its an anti feat, i just dont believe their dc or ap scales to anything hashirama has). Madara is bias for hashirama yes, but that bias and appreciation stems from the fact he admires his abilities so much, not just that they were friends. he constantly praises his abilities, ultimate shinobi, etc etc it goes on and on. he says nothing, literally nothing about tobirama, and even if you argue "its just because he hates him" there were parts he also hated hashirama yet still praised him constantly. also, he constantly praises other people like naruto and sasuke too, its not just hashirama. the fact tobirama also constantly obeys his brother and always backs down whenever he gets pushed, implies in the fight against juubito he needs him there at times (though it could be about his hax). if youre saying the ems and sage mode amp seperate them, then i obviously agree, but i dont consider ems a completely seperate form, its still base madara (unless you mean without sharingan lol)
@@GeorgeMMA Madara compliments Sasuke’s eyes but not Sasuke specifically, and I don’t think he said anything about Naruto that was complimentary at all but I’m not going to die on that hill because I need to reread the fight to be sure about that. In any case, Madara hates Tobirama and even after death as an edo states that he’s been wanting to stab him for a long time and said it was too bad he wasn’t alive. His whole ultimatum involved Hashi killing Tobirama. And no I don’t think Tobirama could deal with wood spam but we only see that really from sage Hashi. Sage Hashi wins, but Tobirama should be able to deal with the pollen by burning it (I think the data books mention he’s mastered all 5 basic nature transformations and he has chakra on the scale of Madara to create large enough fire balls to probably do it). Hiruzen does mention Hashi’s strength so it probably suggests he’s physical stronger but most of the beat down was still given by Tobi, so maybe Tobi is a better fighter? It’s hard to draw too much from the fight in that regard, but I don’t Hashi is as strong as Tsunade given how Tsunade punched a giant hole in Madara and if Hashi were on her scale, the only way Madara survived battles with Hashi means that Madara either severely outclasses Hashi in taijutsu or Hashi didn’t possess the strength in life to one shot Madara like Tsunade does. He’s probably strong but not THAT strong since I don’t see him being so behind in taijutsu behind Madara that he can’t even hit him. Edo Ginkaku and Kinkaku also fought an entire division of the alliance and were defeated by sage weapons and questionable writing. Also Darui scales really well, it’s just not talked about. Tobirama fought stronger versions plus a heap full of other ninja. I don’t really consider his death here as an anti-feat. And yeah by base I mean regular mangekyou. Uchiha don’t really fight without activating it but it’s nebulous trying to argue what base is for an EMS user. We just suggest what we might think the amp is from mangekyou to EMS and Tobirama falls somewhere within that gap. Hot take but if alive Madara needed Kyuubi to even fight a Hashirama, I don’t think non-Kyuubi EMS Madara is really scaling that high against Tobirama. If Tobirama had full Kyuubi, where are we placing him? People already scale Tobirama to orange mask Obito. I don’t think alive EMS Madara is really that far above Orange Mask
@@GodKiller97 i believe Madara said (when Naruto destroyed the Deep Forest Emergence with his Odama Rasengan barrage. {I do want to point out this was in the anime and I can't be a 100% sure but I believe it was after the meteor fell since the Tsuchikage was very injured and wasn't being healed by Tsunade}) to Kabuto "You were right, he's quite the guy" or something like that
Sasuke needed help in the war with itachi vs sage kabuto. Jugo gave him sage power and Naruto gave them a cloak. Wtf get the scaling right. Sasuke was clearly shown not to be on Narutos level in chakra mode when he made clones to fight the war, bijuu mode when juubito appeared then bijuu sage mode when Sasuke got heated just watching but NAWL in your opinion they even. Smh
That was KF-EMS who needed help, after that he gets fighting amps, maybe a hatred amp, and is just stronger overall. The Sage Power was to damage Juubito, and even so the Curse Mark is inferior to the SM Amp Naruto has, yet SEMS and BSM are still relative. I agreee EMS loses to BSM but to say KCM2 destroys him is just wrong. They are equal or I’d give it to Sasuke if its his Post-Juubito Fight Variant.
@@noyesno1899 id argue kcm2 naruto dookies on sasuke i think ems is somewhere between kcm1 and kcm2 but i feel like kcm2 is too much of a powerhouse for him to do anything. hashirama stated kcm2 naruto was rivaling his chakra reserves and just through hashirama flexing he not only scared the sh!t out sasuke but also easily undid orochimarus control over him whereas edo itachi (who id argue might be able to beat ems sasuke) couldn’t and had to use kotoamatsukami to break free. he’s def stronger than kcm1 but kcm2 claps his cheeks inside and out
@@davidhall3894 The issue is your prolly thinking of his Early/Mid War Arc variant. Post-Juubito Fight EMS is insane, being relative or superior to Blind SM Madara, a weaker Madara blitzed SM Naruto, with a Senjutsu amp fought equally with BSM Naruto, take away the Senjutsu amps and he’s relative to KCM2. Its worse if I argue that EMS Sasuke had the PS at the end of the Juubito-Fight, the thing likely needed to push him to EMS Madara’s level.
@@gameuniverse5973 no he’s not. Tobirama said he “could surpass madara”, meaning EMS sasuke still hasn’t reached madara level. No way is he relative to obito, BSM naruto carried that fight.
Short Answer : Tobirama beats almost every version of sasuke outside of Rinnegan teen sasuke , adult rinnegan sasuke and adult no rinnegan sasuke ( he still has lightning cloak without rinnegan)
Tobirama so slept on he’ll always be one of my favorites. I’m still on the side that EMS Sasuke still doesn’t take it, his Susanoo was not perfect either lol it was semi-perfect
Alive Tobirama could win. His FTG makes it impossible for Uchiha to react to him as shown when he killed Izuna. Also, he just needs to touch Sasuke once and he’ll be able to teleport into the Susano. Sasuke’s only defense is Amaterasu, which Tobirama could very well react to considering he was the fastest shinobi of his time. Tobirama has actually kept up with and, on one occasion, surpassed Minato in terms of reaction speed when they were both Edo Tensei. He could always use the Tandem Paper Bomb to tie with Sasuke as well, if not he may have an Edo that could be used as well.
@@bobjohnson1633 I never said the 2nd was equal to Minato in ftg. I said he could keep up with Minato’s ftg. Meaning that even though Minato is faster Tobirama isn’t much slower. Of course at their level of speed even a slight difference can put you on a whole other level. As for his flying thunder god slash you just admitted he can prevent his attack from being seen. If Sasuke can’t see the attack coming then he won’t be able to take advantage of the Sharigan’s visual prowess. Sasuke has never fought someone who could actually use the technique so it’s unlikely he’d be able to react to it in time. Also you never addressed the possibility of alive or Edo Tobirama using the tandem paper bomb.
Yeah so when ems sasuke got blitzed by imperfect juubito and then Tobirama blitzed that juubito with paper bombs and his ftg seal, and then saved naruto and sasuke from dying twice. Such a good fight dog… really competitive
@@АртиКотов-х8й he placed 6 tags on juubito whil juubito can hit him once, sure he got half his body destroyed because of juubito’s power not his speed the speed was in Tobirama’s favor
tobirama has a mental amp in this fight. Sure, we have seen how strong he is when fighting uchihas, but when fighting with the guy that killed Itachi? Tobirama gon go crazyy
I mean sasuke prolly gets a mental amp as well. His ambition + tobirama being at least part responsible for the torment all the uchiha’s had to go through def gotta get him a rage amp
@@ddl3718 Tobirama wasnt responsible for the shitty treatment of the uchihas and he actually treated them well, the problem was Madara (who the whole clan hated for good reason) and later danzo who took advantage of the mess madara created (nine tails)
We also have to consider who Tobirama would edotensei in a fight. Depending on the summon it would give him a large advantage over Sasuke. He would have 2 shadow clones and an edtensei ally to fight Sasuke. Eventually Sasuke would get overwhelmed by the amount of enemies he is facing.
To be honest? I think Tobirama was the best hokage. I know that's a stretch, but think. Hashirama created the basic structure, like a wooden outline (pun intented) to a full on house. Tobirama built on that drastically and made the foundations for a village that would survive 3 ninja wars and rebuild after being destroyed twice. He could create water out of air. AIR! He had one of the most legendary swords out there only behind the 7 ninja swordsmen's weapons and *maybe* the kusanagi. He created the Flying Thunder God and the Impure World Ressurection. Tobirama was the best hokage, hands down.
Impure World Ressurection caused so many problems(See War Arc), I would argue that’s really not a good thing. Besides, without Tobirama, Konoha wouldn’t be near the level of “Strongest Village” but, without Hashirama, Konoha wouldn’t exist and Naruto would still be in the Warring States Era. Who’s going to establish the Village with the Uchiha? The “Racist Hokage”?
@@actuallyreallybored That's a bad take, sure the Edo Tensei was a jutsu that shouldn't have been created or shared with other. But Tobirama did give the Uchiha the Police force so that they would have a big role to play when it came to the village, it was Danzo that literally separated them from the rest of the Village.
@@lipe9039 I'm not saying Tobirama is a shit Kage or Danzo isn't basically responsible for half of Konoha's Problems. But Tobirama making peace with Madara is just silly. Plus Tobirama created the PF as a way to keep the Uchiha's emotions in check, not of good faith.
@@actuallyreallybored nope, he literally had the strongest uchiha at the time (besides Madara), kagami uchiha along side him protecting him why would he not trust them and then place the strongest in the village as his 2nd right hand
@@lipe9039 That only happened cause Hashirama and Madara actually created peace and made the village. Tobirama didn't even know Kagami until Post-WSE. Hashirama and Madara was the literal only remotely positive relationship between Senju and Uchiha before the Village was made. Kagami is also explicitly stated to be one of the *few* Uchiha Tobirama believed in.
The biggest issue I have with vs battles especially Naruto battles in particular is lack of info on characters we don’t know how strong prime hiruzen is we just him as a fossil we don’t know how hashirama died. And even for tobirama yeah he lost but we don’t know exactly how or even what state he was in. Also the fact that tactics and strategy seem to be less important than part 1 and early part 2 makes these less exciting
Yea, and all things considered, wasnt the kinkaku and Ginkaku squad made of 20 S-class shinobi......................That quite literally means Tobirama went down fighting a squad of basically 20 low to mid tier Akatsuki level fighters, all with their own unique jutsu and individual levels of strength and skill not to mention 2 of which who quite literally have version 2 nine tails cloaks to fight with as well as the sage of 6 paths weapons.................There's barely 10 people in the entire series who can survive this situation, not to mention the brothers we see fighting against Darui are nerfed by the edo tensei and are probably drastically stronger back then
You kind of missed that sasuke got a buff from naruto before they even fought in control jubito. But tobirama just doesn't have answers for most of sasuke's justus so ems beats him outright
Name some justu that he has that can kill tobirama before he got rinnegan blaze release is not touching him kirin need’s prep time susanno is not touching him sasuke would run out of chakra tobirama would kill that form of sasuke
I will never understand how someone can say “Tobirama created the tandem paper bombs to use with the edo tensei” and then continue to restrict alive tobirama from using it😭 makes absolutely no sense. He can use it while alive, he just doesn’t perform the jutsu with his own body. He sends some unnamed edo to do it for him.
@@headshotmaster138 you dint think ems Sasuke won't see the shadow clone with bunch of paper tags covering it when with a base Sharigan he saw micro bombs
How are you gonna just graze over his speed and bringer of darkness like He didn’t use one of them To kill a uchiha who was suppose to match madaras power… Tobirama would literally either blitz him or use bringer of darkness. Lol
@@doctorfloppa2021 you cant just say you doubt it would work, and considering sasuke as far as we know has no idea what it is that would make it more effective. i agree though i dont see how he gets through the susanoo
Tobirama has only fought against a uchiha with regular mangekyo I assume you speaking of Izuna as madara's equal that he killed Both izuna and madara had basic mangekyo Sasuke has EMS when he meets tobirama
MS Sasuke fought and won against Unruly Ay, who's movement speed was comparable to Minato, who is faster then Tobirama. MS Sasuke was reacting to Ay even when his Lightning Armour was amp to Bijuu level, according to Karin, and would have killed Ay with Amatarasu had Gaara not saved him. The same Ay who heard that Kinkaku and Ginkaku were reanimated and was ready to go into the battlefield with only one arm. The Silver and Gold brothers were the ones responsible for killing Tobirama. MS Sasuke also fought Danzo, a student of Tobirama, and outsmarted him. Tobirama fought Uchiha's most of his life, yet he passed on that knowledge to Danzo, but Danzo knows more about the Uchiha's than Tobirama because of the fact he was spying on them for years. If MS Sasuke won his fight against Danzo by outsmarting him, then I have no reason to believe Sasuke wouldn't be able to outsmart someone less knowledgeable then Danzo. EMS Sasuke has reacted to Juubito's attack, saved MasteredKCM1 Naruto from a TruthSeekingOrb, that not even KCM Minato reacted fast enough to save his son himself. I don't see Tobirama winning this fight, KCM1 Naruto tanked the Cataclysm attack from the Juubi and EMS Sasuke is casually above that. His Susano'o tanked the TruthSeekingOrb attack from Juubito when Tobirama's tandem paper bomb explosions couldn't even destroy a TruthSeekingOrb. The say I see it is that Sasuke has Speed feats, Reaction feats, Attack Power feats, Durability feats, Tactical Intelligence feats.
@@SpiegelsSolipsism not only that, people also forget that Sasuke is a tactician too. In universe characters praise people like Shikamaru for his intellect, Tobirama and his inventions, Itachi and his talent, yet Sasuke isn't praised for his genius but he shows us. They talk the talk, but Sasuke walks the walk.
Why do versus battles always take Edo Tensei away from Tobirama? He used it enough in life that the revived Kage during the war thought he was the summoner initially. And everyone needs prep to perform it, including Kabuto. So I think alive Tobirama should have two states: one with Edo Tensei prep and one without.
Tobirama is my second favorite character next to hashirama I think his hate of the uchiha clan is completely valid losing multiple brothers in the war will do that to u I think he was insanely powerful and i also wish we would’ve seen more of both of them
It seem like every other video six got a different interpretation of the Sakura saying she finally caught up to Naruto and Sasuke , I just pointed this out on the Sakura vs Hinata video where he said she isn't relative to them in power and it was just a resolve the he dropped this and proved my point 🤦
he picks and chooses what feats he wants to use or dispute to bolster his points and then whenever someone calls out the nonsensical logic he claims you don’t understand and are interpreting wrong😂
Not to disagree with you just my 2 takes on that sakura statement. In power meaning destructive damage obviously are you gonna argue that sakura has the same level of iq as sasuke or that sakura has the same level of stamina as naruto she doesn't that statement means she is relative to them in destructive damage and even then naruto had more damage potential than sakura.
I always saw Tobirama as more of a creative rather than power for the sake of power kind of Shinobi. He INVENTED a wide array of jutsu that many of the strongest characters to come out of Naruto use as their calling card. Minato, Orochimaru being two key examples. No doubt most people’s fav shinobi could take him down. But he was the forerunner for ALOT of characters that came after. That’s where my respect for him is
EMS Sasuke takes this with the lower end of Hard Diff: - Water Style Jutsus are getting evaded, or not hitting precisely enough to down Sasuke. Sasuke dodged Killer Bee’s V1 and Danzo’s Wind Style Air Bullet (from behind I might add). - IF Tobirama were to get caught in Genjutsu it’s a GG for Tobirama… - FTG is only viable if they can mark you (Chidori Stream counters only with good timing) or their Kunai is within range. All Sasuke has to do is gauge the distance a thrown Kunai would have, then he literally counters with Susanoo Arrows. EMS has no problem spamming those arrows for days. Tobirama COULD lay out a mass of Kunai on the area to teleport / dodge but all Sasuke would need to do is Enton the field. Without FTG, Sasuke’s Sharingan will literally precog Tobirama’s movements and auto aim those arrows to his heart. - Tandem Paper Bomb is EXTREMELY slow… The target would need to be held down, as the Jutsu needs time to replicate the bombs over and over. The AP on this Jutsu is HUGE to be fair, but if Sasuke was able to BULLSHIT his way out of Deidara’s Suicide Jutsu, then there’s absolutely no chance that Sasuke is getting caught with this move. Though by no means is it an easy win for Sasuke as both contestants have well above average Battle IQ which could result in being the variable for this fight. Even so, Sasuke takes this fight hands down. Itachi Vs Tobirama would have been a fairer comparison but I could see people already yelling “Totsuka Blade” so I won’t get into it.
Probably the worst thing about Naruto is random plot power ups. And I'm not talking about Naruto using the 9 tail, sage made, kcm. I'm talking about base forms randomly getting way more powerful. Basically training is useless because they get more powerful just because they mad. Obviously 13 year old Narutos base will go up naturally but look at Kakashi. Gut was 26 in P1 and he was zabuza level and he had the sharingan since 13. And he's known for it so clearly he uses it. But 13 years after getting the sharingan he can only use it for 1 fight and then being koed for days after and then in shippuden (2 years later) he mastered it. And then used his MS and went from being in the hospital for months after using it a few times to dying from using it too much to the war arc. They say by the time someone fully upgrades their susanoo they go blind. So plot said Kakashi can master his kamui long before going blind
I really wanna see Sasuke use a modified version of his all around move set like an encased armor infernal style covering the Susuno or lighting covering it
I think any form of second hokage could wreck any form of sasuke if he doesn't have perfect susanoo. Like you said there just isn't enough information about the second hokage to know if he could beat the perfect susanoo
@@uteriel282 sasuke is more than capable of avoiding being tagged. he was keeping up w/ juubito and bsm naruto. and tobirama himself admitted that he was inferior to base minato in terms of ftg
I mean, Tobirama made EMS Sasuke sht himself just by lifting his finger and *flexing his reiatsu* , but EMS Sasuke is a different beast in the war. He's keeping up with Juubito and scales to BSM Naruto with curse mark amps from Jugo.
In terms of Sasuke shitting himself I don’t think that was really the case, I see people bringing this up constantly but if you look at the panel it looks more like he was getting ready to fight or was just surprised by the sudden increase in his chakra, I mean he obviously didn’t feel too threatened because he didn’t even activate his sharingan but idk Sasuke probably would have lost at the point in time tbh so its kinda up for interpretation
Ems Sasuke got a mental amp with his Sharigan since it actually stated in the datebook that it can happen that why he stronger in the juubito fight also no Tobirama does not have better speed feats than ems Sasuke he was reacting too stable juubito while Tobirama reacted too unstable juubito
I always find it interesting that these god tier fully grown adult fighters are close in strength to a teenager who's not even the main character. I.e Full potential fighter vs Mid potential fighter.
Some additional Tobirama hype. Water slicing wave could cut through the Susanoo, at any phase short of Rinnegan Sasuke. Maybe, majestic attire couldCutting through the God Tree is absolutely cracked, and he did it while simultaneously being drained of chakra. Even Minato wasn't able to do anything there. The god tree tanked the combined explosion of 4 Juubibombs simultaneously, while being trapped inside a barrier, unscathed. To me that is crazy AP, and you could argue it even higher if you want to scale Hiruzen above the godtree, since he also smashed through portions of it with his staff. This is due to cutting straight through alive Hiruzens giant mud wall like it wasn't even there. Its contentious, but its worth also mentioning that Earth style is water styles better on the elemental chakra wheel. You can also scale Tobirama and Base Hashirama's durability being above Hiruzens fire-style jutsu as they just stood in the flame wave for a few moments before countering. That, or you may also consider it a speed feat, because these fights happen at higher speeds anyway. And you could imply this was intended to be interpreted as him itercepting the flames just a moment before they started taking damage in the manga. In the anime, they definitely just stood there for a minute. Of course, all of these last two are dependent on where you actually put Hiruzen. Tobirama could feasibly use Tandem Paper Bomb while alive with FTG, but I absolutely agree with not using it in debates. That, "I've never used this" statement is too strong of evidence to refute. That being said, I absolutely agree that this is his highest DC, and its pretty busted. Infinite slice is slept on, and I don't know why it isn't talked about more in these. Functionally, I think its the best ftg offensive technique. Minato could definitely perform it, if he evet learned it, and now imagine eating his rasengan an implied infinite, probably just unquantifiable, number of times, in one teleport. That's not to say that either translate to truly infinite AP. One would just need the durability to tank it no matter what, and its still gonna sting. Now to debunk some overhyped things. Tobirama's sensory ability is good, but nothing special. He appears to have to focus, and its move of a spacial awareness thing. So its not like it gives him pre-cognition once the fight begins. The other thing is Kenjutsu. You MIGHT be able to argue Tobirama's would outclass Sasuke's to a degree, but Sasuke is better with advanced shuriken jutsu. So I believe they balance out. Lightning style kenjutsu is a wash, since they can both reasonably use it. The only thing I'll call cap on, is Sasuke being equal to Naruto. He is, at best, equal to a Naruto that had given out 3x Kakashi chakra to 1000's of ninja once, and each 1 of those has the durability to tank the Ten Tails Cataclysm. Then later gave up an even greater amount of chakra than that, per cloak, to everyone again, including Sasuke. Using the Majestic Attire doesn't prove equal alone, It just proves that Sasuke can now use majestic attire. Sasuke's able to balance the amaterasu with Naruto's wind style, not because they're using the same abount of chakra, but because they both have good chakra control. The way wind-style and fire style interact, in general, would mean that even if Sasuke could match the chakra density of the rasenshuriken with amaterasu, he'd still have to hold it back. To me, before you can say EMS Sasuke and BSM/KCM2 Naruto were truly equals, you would have to objectively prove that those two chakra hand outs were negligible. And that EMS Sasuke would be able to do the same, and still be able to accomplish everything else he did after, but before the Hagoromo heal. That doesn't really affect your conclusions, because I its not like I think Tobirama has that much chakra either. I just wanted to put it out there. That's more than enough from me though. Still agreat video, and its nice to see that the community has evolved from the Tobirama
When Sasuke mentioned if he wanted to exact revenge on the leaf, Tobirama had the 'evil uchiha' slur in his hot keys. Lol he was about to do more with that finger than the Thousand years of death jutsu.
The problem with Tobirama is that he has a vast array of jutsu but he doesn’t have any jutsu that deals massive damage. He’s very similar to Hiruzen in my eyes. He solos non-ototsuki ninjas.
His chakra is large, dont forget a younger tobi defeated a younger mangekyo izuna. Many years would have passed. Tobirama is a creative fighter, he can defeat sauske. Its not like amaterasu or susano arrow is gonna touch him. 👍
I thought you were gonna be done with vs battles a couple months ago? Edit:don’t stop btw I still somehow love them but I thought you said you didn’t like doing them
Itachi and Nagato vs Hashirama would be interesting I think. Or even Hashirama vs the rest of the edo tensei, could he beat them all or could a specific team cause him problems
Edo itachi was on a league of his own. Itachi only problem was his stamina , durability and chakra which were fully amplified due to his edo version as you will not run out of chakra and Itachi susano is really something very powerful. So yes edo Itachi along with edo nagato will slam edo Hashirama
no, tobirama is no where near madara’s level at all. Sasuke has the ems which gives him an amp that separates him from everybody. To suggest tobirama is stronger than an ems user even tho it’s known he’s weaker than madara just doesn’t make sense if he couldn’t fight ems madara how can he fight ems sasuke? He gets stomped.
@@xvingar6318 what ARE You saying brother? EMS Sasuke stronger than ems MADARA? When? How? What in the world? You smoked some really weird Shit DUDE Tobirama yes he wins every version of Sasuke But Rinnegan Sasuke
just cause we didn't much of izuna, does not mean he is weaker than sasuke. He is compared to madara more or less obviously, and you gotta remember these guys grew up during war, it was common everyday for them. they trained all their life till their deaths.
@@sixfromtokyo imagine how I feel. 🤔 6 is half of 12. I am literally a second born left handed leo abandoned my former life where everything I believed was a lie. Sasuke is more relatable altho Obi is the goat and I appreciate your video and responses. Makes you seem more real to me too
Going ems Sasuke he way too versatile with Amaterasu than just shooting it and both have juubito speed scaling so no you can't just use that too say Tobirama wins
Ayo six. Do you work at chase bank? I know it’s a weird question but I lost my debit card and needed help getting a new one sent in. I swear it was you who answered the phone. Thanks for the help family.
Okay, there was a lot of analysis in this video. But you skimmed right over the fact that Tobirama should be faster AND have more chakra/endurance than all of Sasuke's forms. That is a huge deal. In all of your guys's videos you hype up and Minato mostly for his speed, saying he could simply blitz anyone he's faster than. I don't see how you couldn't even address this argument, if Tobirma is positively faster (I know you said that's if you take the madara statement to be true, but I mean yeah.. he also blitzes juubito and dodges a point blank attack from sage mode Madara). Like, c'mon bruh. Also, you keep bringing up the fight with Edo tensei Tobi versus old hiruzen. This was a very unrefined Edo tensei, orochimaru States so himself when he later creates a way better one, backed up by Kabuto who refines it even more after that. These guys were at very low power compared to their alive versions, and yes I do think it's realistic for hashirama and tobirama to be that far above the third hokage in power, they were war children just like Madara. That being said, a very nerfed Tobirama doing good against old hiruzen is far more impressive than Sasuke v Kabuto.
I just simply don't see EMS Sasuke beating Tobirama. Sasuke got blitzed and experienced the most humbling experience when blind Madara made him look like a fly trapped in a spider's web, while Tobirama while weakened by edo tensei got a couple dodges from that same Madara a couple seconds prior. To further prove my point, the EMS Sasuke you're using in the Juubito fight was on par to edo Tobirama but Sasuke was also buffed by both Kurama's chakra and Jugo's sage chakra, and according to Kakashi, Kurama's chakra is a 3x amp(I think it is, I don't remember Kakashi's exact line). The fact that EMS Sasuke buffed by Kurama and Jugo is equal to edo Tobirama shows that solo EMS Sasuke would be inferior to edo Tobirama, let alone Tobirama in his prime, not by a large margin though(for edo, I can see prime Tobirama mid diff EMS Sasuke). To top that argument off, both Naruto and Sasuke only managed to perform so well in the early stages of the battle because Tobirama and Minato were enabling them with their flying raijin seals. I also think Tobirama's as fast as Minato, the former praises Minato's prowess in flicker, not specifically the flying raijin. How can Minato be faster in the flying raijin if both of them are a teleport? You can't be faster than the other if the both are instantaneous, Minato just developed the seal more I guess. Going back to Juubito here, we see Juubito have the capabilities to clash and keep up with Sasuke and Naruto, while Tobirama and Minato were constantly perception blitzing Juubito with ease, and I'm positive Juubito's reaction time should be higher than EMS Sasuke's. To end things off I personally think Tobirama's chakra finger flex is a valid argument her. Tobirama flexing one finger worth of chakra managed to dirty the entirety of Taka's underwear, including Sasuke and forced Orochimaru to prepare the control seal. Sure Hashirama boasted more power than Tobirama in that moment, but one finger was able to humble Sasuke to the point where he actually started stressing out(the drop of sweat). In conclusion, I see any form of Tobirama low-mid diffing MS Sasuke, edo Tobirama would high diff Sasuke and prime Tobirama would easily mid diff EMS Sasuke all because he has a fairly developed susano'o.
But tobirama got absolutely destroyed by 1 Rinnegan madara without limbo, a weaker version of this madara was able to blitz sage mode naruto yet was comparable in taijutsu to sasuke. Sasuke only got killed because of Limbo which is the same technique that took out all the tailed beasts
@@christianramirez3754 Sasuke’s taijutsu was nowhere near Madara’s. He didn’t even spar with Madara, he just frozen in the air then stabbed. Tobirama actually contested against Madara for a couple seconds.
I think a prime tobirama waxes sasuke .. when I say prime I mean prime tobirama vs sasuke prime (no six path) since tobirama didn’t get any amps from the sage it’s only fair .. sasuke would fold no question .. it took 20 s rank akatski like members to kill tobirama & 2 out of those 20 ninjas had kurama chakra beast forms (4 tail form like Naruto vs orochimaru)
Ems vs tobirama is the closest. Only hope he has is ftg. However I doubt tobirama has anything beside his paper tandem bomb to do anything to the susanoo. Even then, he would only use that as an edo. The battle favors ems sasuke heavily. You could also say, since he knows that tobirama did the clan dirty he would have a hate/ms amp while fighting him.
Also ninja storm 4 does a good job of showing the character progression in the character selection. Showing a distinct difference between ms nd 5 kage summit sasuke. In fact Karin mentioned his chakra 3 times during the 5 kage summit vs the one time for ms.
SO wild thought. Indra and Asura were brothers, so their decedents should also be related. SO Naruto and Sasuke were related, just like Madara and Hashiyama. Also, Naruto married a distant cousin. WILD!!!
Sasuke doesnt have sage mode and is much slower than tobirama and will lose to any virsion of tobirama unless talking about rinnegan sasuke: 2 forms of proof: 1) madara only dodged tobirama due to sage mode, even if sasuke is wary he cannot dodge because unless you know where they will appear from the data book states youre dead. 2) this one is the most impressive speed feat tobirama has over sasuke and can even suggest that he could take him down with ease. When obito was about to blow everyone up with his truth seeker orb sasuke tried to form the ribcage before it even formed tobiramas clone, came in, stood for a second, took the orb went away and teleported obito and the orb away before the ribcage could form (obviously when he teleported back it was formed) whats so special about this is that IT WAS A CLONE THAT DID THAT. In the pannel where minato and tobirama were combining their attacks with naruto and sasuke. Tobirama proceeds to state that his "clones are slower at using flying raijin" so it was the origional that was apart of the attack. The fact that a clone was that fast just means that the origional would blitz sasuke before he can even use his susanoo to defend him. Sage mode on madara was the only reason the war didnt end early multiple times lol (because really if hashirama didnt beat his ass tobirama would have 1 shot him) There is 0 chance that anything less than rinnegan/ 6 paths sasuke would give tobirama a challange. Ap dont matter if your heads not attached to your neck
Sasuke is capable of fighting along side kcm 1.5 Naruto. This Naruto is compared in speed to minato which means sasuke with his ems on has relativistic speed. Datebook statements like that are exaggerated and take a different meaning most the time. Tobirama using a clone to stop a truth seeking orb from blowing up isn’t a impressive speed feat as everyone was ready for it including sasuke being able to put up his susanoo ribcage fully before it almost blew up. Sasuke wins.
JOIN THE DISCORD SERVER: discord.gg/era6
I got banned for no reason
Six if you don’t do pain v itachi for your 50k im pulling up 😭😭😭😭😭
Un ban me
@@Heistjdj1337 ikr, nigga makes an server, invite u, then ban u for no reason 😭
@@MultiAssassin31 he thinks Itachi win…he said it on stream multiple times with Seth
Sasuke: I'm gonna destroy the Hidden Leaf Village!
Tobirama: And I took that personally.
the only reason he lost to gold and silver is because they aren't uchiha.
he doesn't have his 20x boost
Lmao
Racism amp lmfao
*unintelligible gurgling*
WHAT DID YOU SAY UCHIHA???
Tobirama dint have his will of fire boost as well
@@Sayojen OH YEAH! YOU WAS TALKING ALL THAT GOOD SHIT A SECOND AGO; THEN YO WHOLE CLAN GOT WIPED OUT! YOU REINCARNATE INDRA, YOU REINCARNATE!
The real weakness of Tobirama is that he was "born to soon". Of course Naruto/Kabuto/Minato's techniques are stronger. But that's only because those jutsus have had decades to evolve. Tobirama invented all of them, played with them for a few years, and then died. Compare this with the clone-jutsu which has been refined by countless ninjas through history. Tobirama is basically a caveman with a piece of flintstone. Naruto is a special-force soldier with a tactical stainless steel knife. Of course it's better, but it only exist because that caveman invented the flint knife first. You can't really compare 2 points on the same line...
good points.. plus tobirama had to live in an era of multiple wars. inventing justsus, and using them at the same time.. no time to practice during peaceful moments.. the generations after them, were given time to grow and learn and eventually be given light to moderate missions until they beccome full grown adults
I’m a Sasuke stan lol but I never thought of this before. It was right in my face and I didn’t see it. That’s a really really really big mention. How strong are these ninja if you buff them to the standards of more of their modern shinobi😮💨😮💨😮💨
you are right
This is an amazing take.
Although, tobirama and hashirama are only, like, 3-4 generations older than narutos group. The show made it seem like they were so much older, like hundreds of years older than narutos group. The amount of evolution in the refinement of justu in narutos Era was refine by real geniuses for then to have come as far as they did in such a short amount of time. Tobirama is at most 150 years older than naruto. Assuming, Minato and kushina were roughly 18-20 when they had naruto and if Minatos parents were jiraya and tsunade, like a nice theory proposed, and they were 50 when naruto was 13. Then Hashirama is tsunades grandpa giving another 50 years between them then the warring states period of narutos world ended max 150 years before naruto was born. They aren't nearly as ancient as the show makes them seem
"Those who break the rules are scum,
but those darn Uchiha are even worse than scum."
-Legendary Tobiarama
😂😂😂😂
Nobody talks about Tobirama knowing about Kagutsuchi. When Naruto and Sasuke fire attacks at the 10 tails, Tobirama sees Sasuke's Kagutsuchi arrow and says, "I don't recall seeing Kagutsuchi of such magnitude". Implying that either Izuna or another Uchiha that Tobirama fought/took out, used Kagutsuchi (which would mean they have Amaterasu as well) and that says a lot about Tobirama's power.
Since itachi had it and sasuke had it, that might mean black flames of some kind could be genetic. Imagine tobirama killed sasuke & itachi’s great grandpa 😂
Sasuke and Itachi are far beyond most Uchiha, even those that had mangekyo.
@@bobjohnson1633so?
@@bobjohnson1633 "Even those that had Mangekyo". I don't know bud, there's some real stiff competition.
@@bobjohnson1633 Source?
I wish tobirama had more on screen feats. Definitely the most underrated hokage in my opinion.
I disagree with him being the most underrated hokage, that definitely have to go to Tsunade still.
@@general6killer true
@@general6killer atleast she got more screen time and is recognised more but many people forget that tobirama is strong to begin with
@@sasookex say that to hiruzen the old man not even have a screen fight in his prime
(Him has to be the most underrate hokage)
@@general6killer bro tsunade is really weak(I am not including 100 healings) I mean in part 1 she literally lose to kabuto
And tobirama is strong still underestimate that he can't beat orochimaru, jiraya etc
Remember, Tobirama gets the racism amp when fighting Uchiha, giving him 20x chakra reserves, 10x AP, 10x DP, and 10x speed/reaction time.
damn... that racism amp do be strong
Bro ngl if I gotta be racist to get that amp then so be it
Tobirama: So, we meet again, Izuna.
Sasuke: Izu-who?
Tobirama : Exactly.
i love this thread
Sasuke was lucky Tobirama had already went to the afterlife when he declared a Revolution.
Fuck was tobirama gonna do 💀
@@thanos8914 I mean he couldn't touch revived 1 eyed madara. rinnegan Sasuke would do tobirama so dirty
@@ishmaelpierson7681 1 eyed revived Madara was also way stronger than Sasuke so your point doesn't really stand
Edit:this comment is invalid since it talks about another edited comment.
@@skittles664 thats before sasuke had his rinnegan lol... Your out of context...
@@alexandremartin660 probably
This fight is never close. Before rinnegan it's all Tobirama and after its all Sasuke
The Hiruzen and Tobirama disrespect is crazy
There is just not enough information to know if second hokage could beat perfect susanoo. Sasuke had perfect susanoo before he got his 6 tomei rinnegan
@@itsmesteve1081 no he had full susano not perfect susano.. he got perfect susano after getting the rinnegan and sosp amp
@@itsmesteve1081 as others have said, tobirama has two options to beat perfect susano. The paper tags(used with shadow clones) which evaporated the deity gates which can restrain the ten tails and whatever water jutsu that cut the god tree's roots. THe latter cuts through sasuke unarguably as well. If tobirama touches sasuke beefore he uses susanoo, the susanoo is irrevelant since its not connected to sasuke and tobirama flat out has shown better speed than any sasuke pre-rinnegan, so who is to say he doesn't touch susano, warp it away, then neg sasuke?.
I think you mean before EMS.
Alive tobirama uses mutually multiplying explosive tags as well. Tobirama stated it was his first time using the jutsu with his own body. While tobirama was alive he would summon corpses and use those bodies to perform the jutsu. It's just a common misconception he can't use the jutsu while alive.
Not only this- nothings stopping him from using it with a shadow clone 😉
@@dungeon-wn4gw exact
@@dungeon-wn4gw it won't work. The shadow clone will just get blown away. He needs an indestructible body aka any edo tensei
@@ohboi9578
That doesnt make any sense. The moment the jutsu is activated, the Shadow Clone isnt needed. The shadow clone is only there to set it off. They can pop, and the jutsu will still go.
@@dungeon-wn4gw it needs to MOVE to a moving target. Thats why tobirama never used it with a clone. Papaer bombs need TIME to replicate themselves enough that it would make a significant damage. It is not an instaneous that's why you need a moving body to follow the target until the jutsu actually has enough fire power. Every other shinobi apart from six paths dudes would've run away the second they saw the paperbombs, it's literally common sense.
gaara pulled madara out of his susano using sand under his feet, which means the susano is an armor that is not attached to the persons body who is using it. so that means if tobirama makes physical contact with the susano he should be able to teleport it away to another location, or seperate them from it. Secondly, tobirama created his paperbomb jutsu for the edo tensei , its possible that the reason for orochimaru & kabuto bettering the jutsu could be because of how dark and wicked they were, to even want to attempt to to develop a jutsu that requires human sacrifice. this does not mean tobirama isn't smart enough to perfect it. he could have also been the one who made it a forbidden jutsu and discontinued it. so we should assume its apart of his jutsu arsenal & that he will use it if the reason is extremely important, such as protecting the leaf village by reviving a weakened person he could have killed . he should be able to summon an edo , activate the paperbomb jutsu and teleport away to avoid him self from being injured.
idk about that, they woulda showned it in the anime . Also susanoo is supposed to be a spirit armor meaning the caster can summon it anytime, i don't know if you can teleport it away. Even still, just to entertain your logic, it would be pointless as the uchiha in question could simply summon another susanoo armour
That version of susanoo was not the perfect form. Perfect susanoo is as big as Godzilla earth and has no openings like the version of susanoo you are talking about.
if he puts a mark on sasuke he can just teleport inside his susanoo and kill him since its defensive capabilities are only on the outside.
hiraishin is just a broken jutsu that makes diferences in strength or abilities nearly meaningless.
@@smileyent.3055 yea but then they get speed get clapped as you force them to bring up the armor so save their asses and as it is about to hit the Sussanoo sorry you lost your amor good luck with this ninja nuke bye bye
@3rd Way sasuke could definitely catch tobirama in foot speed but teleportation is too broken… but it’s not as useful in combat as it would be let on
You forgot to mention that he has the coolest character design
This result isn't too surprising, but still a great video. Cool scenario, pretty underrated topic, and great research as always. Keep it up
Wake up babe six uploaded a new vs battle
I’m still laughing at sasuke vs killer bee his ass died mid fight twice
Bee needed to be saved multiple times
I've been watch that scene so many times, it is really satisfying😂
@@thegreatestever913Bee didn't need to be saved at all in that fight 😂 the closest thing to saved he got was using his abilities as a perfect jinchuriki to get out of genjutsu
@@fourthhokage1686 you're coping
@@thegreatestever913 sure bud whatever you need to hear
enjoyed the video as always Six, thanks! - LeKage
Tobirama is the back bone of Naruto. Even if you take away the jutsus and ninja related contributions he still has an insane impact on the story, culture and world of Naruto
Idk personally I put Tobirama above base Madara/ Hashirama. He consistently is faster than the two and has the AP to kill both (tandem paper bombs would kill either of the two being protected by their strongest defenses and severing waves is enough to bisect either outside of those). OTHER people would die use TPB, Tobirama teleports away. I think that statement is just a general “nobody can survive this,” but Tobirama isn’t a nobody
The version of Madara who who disrespected Tobirama was amped above his alive self (I’m not counting Rinnegan since he only obtained the rinnegan before he died). Sasuke was also disrespected by Madara and it’s not like he was a weakened edo.
I don’t want to go into scaling specific feats to compare the two because there’s no space for that but my impression is that Tobirama wins against basically most versions of Sasuke, save for everything past his sage/ rinnegan amps. What amps has Tobirama ever gotten from being a special child?
Side note though: the finger flex between him and Hashirama isn’t really to show the difference in power between the two, I think it’s meant to show that Hashirama is the dominant one between the two as he was (1) 1st hokage, (2) leader of the clan (3) older brother. Hashirama IS stronger, but Tobirama was casually flexing chakra whereas Hashirama was shown to be spiking his rather seriously to control Tobirama. In either case, both of them could likely spike their chakra even further than what was shown, and Sasuke’s reaction wasn’t just from pissing off one more than the other, it’s that he was pissing off both and once Hashi did it he realized he had to check himself because two of the biggest badasses to have ever done it where threatening him and overall just showing how superior they were compared to everyone else in the room. Tobirama has insane levels of chakra, it’s just that Naruto and Hashirama has more. I’d suspect he had at least as much as Madara given how Madara needed Kyuubi to match Hashi’s level of chakra.
Its an interesting take, but i feel that narratively its not backed up at all. Izuna sort of implies his below madara "theres someone stronger than you older brother?" when he met hashirama, and the fact that it was always those 2 fighting one another, and never either against the older sibling. The fact madara keeps praising hashirama and doesnt praise tobirama (excluding the speed part, which is contentious) and the fact that when madara activates his perfect susano, tobirama is literally shook and as far as we know never tried to fight him whilst his brother was alive.
ive always viewed it as SM Hashirama > Base Hashirama >~ EMS Madara > Tobirama, and maybe in speed tobirama exceeds both of them.
@@GeorgeMMA narratively Tobirama can’t kill any pre-rinne Sasuke or he isn’t stronger than base Hashi/ Madara?
As far as physical feats go, he was on par with Hashi as edo in their fight against Hiruzen (actually, I think he has a stronger showing. Hashi mostly just used wood to immobilize Hiruzen while Tobi gave him the hands). Whether that’s stats or taijutsu ability is debatable. There’s nothing to suggest Hashi is more durable, just that he has massive regen which isn’t quite the same as durability.
Hashirama is way stronger than Madara in sage mode and the only alive version of Madara that competes is rinne Madara. In base I don’t think there’s any wood jutsu Tobirama can’t cut through given his showing against the god tree and his severing wave was like a hot knife through butter (suggesting it would take something much more durable to even come close to stopping his jutsu). Also a single FTG seal on anyone would mean he could teleport paper bombs onto their bodies instantly. He has the speed necessary to do this and if his physical stats are in the ballpark (even if lower), they shouldn’t be killing him outright with taijutsu. I don’t see base Madara or Hashirama doing the things Tobirama did to any Juubi character. They all clearly became stronger from the time Izuna was killed, but if the potential is similar between the four, the only thing that separated them were EMS and Hashi getting sage mode meaning Tobirama should be comparable in base because of linear comparison and should be above in base based on feats. Madara needed all sorts of amps in the war without access to the kyuubi to do what he did to an edo Tobirama. And he only competed with Hashi before because of the kyuubi.
Madara is also not a competent narrator when it comes to judging the power of other people because he has a bias for Hashirama. The only person who impressed him was Guy and he didn’t even say he was better than Hashirama, just that he was the best at taijutsu and that was having better showings against an even stronger version of him. There’s no way Madara would ever admit anybody is stronger than Hashirama, and his opinions are zero sum. If you’re not Hashirama you’re nothing. It’s just very dismissive and not really a reliable way to say how far or below someone is comparatively
@@GodKiller97 this was a good response and you actually really made me think about the edo fight against hiruzen, because even though they were both nerfed to shit, they were still relative with one another.
again though for physical, does hiruzen not also say hashirama still has that "mighty strength" when nothing is said of tobirama? it seems to me the implication is that physically hashirama is much stronger.
Yes and i agree 1000 percent about sage hashirama being stronger than any non amp version of madara (six and swag in the past have said ems madara scales over him which is absurd)
while tobirama can cut through the god tree, it was still less of a scale than what hashirama normally uses. even though it regenerated, it was a smaller portion, while hashirama will shoot out significantly more wooden tendril things like with deep forest emergance, plus im curious as to how tobirama counters the poisonous flower, whilst fending off multiple tendrils, as well as golems, etc which have large destructive capabilities which realistically could kill tobirama, if a squadron of kinkaku/ginkaku and their men could (not saying its an anti feat, i just dont believe their dc or ap scales to anything hashirama has).
Madara is bias for hashirama yes, but that bias and appreciation stems from the fact he admires his abilities so much, not just that they were friends. he constantly praises his abilities, ultimate shinobi, etc etc it goes on and on. he says nothing, literally nothing about tobirama, and even if you argue "its just because he hates him" there were parts he also hated hashirama yet still praised him constantly. also, he constantly praises other people like naruto and sasuke too, its not just hashirama. the fact tobirama also constantly obeys his brother and always backs down whenever he gets pushed, implies in the fight against juubito he needs him there at times (though it could be about his hax). if youre saying the ems and sage mode amp seperate them, then i obviously agree, but i dont consider ems a completely seperate form, its still base madara (unless you mean without sharingan lol)
@@GeorgeMMA Madara compliments Sasuke’s eyes but not Sasuke specifically, and I don’t think he said anything about Naruto that was complimentary at all but I’m not going to die on that hill because I need to reread the fight to be sure about that. In any case, Madara hates Tobirama and even after death as an edo states that he’s been wanting to stab him for a long time and said it was too bad he wasn’t alive. His whole ultimatum involved Hashi killing Tobirama.
And no I don’t think Tobirama could deal with wood spam but we only see that really from sage Hashi. Sage Hashi wins, but Tobirama should be able to deal with the pollen by burning it (I think the data books mention he’s mastered all 5 basic nature transformations and he has chakra on the scale of Madara to create large enough fire balls to probably do it). Hiruzen does mention Hashi’s strength so it probably suggests he’s physical stronger but most of the beat down was still given by Tobi, so maybe Tobi is a better fighter? It’s hard to draw too much from the fight in that regard, but I don’t Hashi is as strong as Tsunade given how Tsunade punched a giant hole in Madara and if Hashi were on her scale, the only way Madara survived battles with Hashi means that Madara either severely outclasses Hashi in taijutsu or Hashi didn’t possess the strength in life to one shot Madara like Tsunade does. He’s probably strong but not THAT strong since I don’t see him being so behind in taijutsu behind Madara that he can’t even hit him.
Edo Ginkaku and Kinkaku also fought an entire division of the alliance and were defeated by sage weapons and questionable writing. Also Darui scales really well, it’s just not talked about. Tobirama fought stronger versions plus a heap full of other ninja. I don’t really consider his death here as an anti-feat.
And yeah by base I mean regular mangekyou. Uchiha don’t really fight without activating it but it’s nebulous trying to argue what base is for an EMS user. We just suggest what we might think the amp is from mangekyou to EMS and Tobirama falls somewhere within that gap. Hot take but if alive Madara needed Kyuubi to even fight a Hashirama, I don’t think non-Kyuubi EMS Madara is really scaling that high against Tobirama. If Tobirama had full Kyuubi, where are we placing him? People already scale Tobirama to orange mask Obito. I don’t think alive EMS Madara is really that far above Orange Mask
@@GodKiller97 i believe Madara said (when Naruto destroyed the Deep Forest Emergence with his Odama Rasengan barrage. {I do want to point out this was in the anime and I can't be a 100% sure but I believe it was after the meteor fell since the Tsuchikage was very injured and wasn't being healed by Tsunade}) to Kabuto "You were right, he's quite the guy" or something like that
Sasuke needed help in the war with itachi vs sage kabuto. Jugo gave him sage power and Naruto gave them a cloak. Wtf get the scaling right. Sasuke was clearly shown not to be on Narutos level in chakra mode when he made clones to fight the war, bijuu mode when juubito appeared then bijuu sage mode when Sasuke got heated just watching but NAWL in your opinion they even. Smh
That was KF-EMS who needed help, after that he gets fighting amps, maybe a hatred amp, and is just stronger overall.
The Sage Power was to damage Juubito, and even so the Curse Mark is inferior to the SM Amp Naruto has, yet SEMS and BSM are still relative.
I agreee EMS loses to BSM but to say KCM2 destroys him is just wrong. They are equal or I’d give it to Sasuke if its his Post-Juubito Fight Variant.
@@noyesno1899 id argue kcm2 naruto dookies on sasuke i think ems is somewhere between kcm1 and kcm2 but i feel like kcm2 is too much of a powerhouse for him to do anything. hashirama stated kcm2 naruto was rivaling his chakra reserves and just through hashirama flexing he not only scared the sh!t out sasuke but also easily undid orochimarus control over him whereas edo itachi (who id argue might be able to beat ems sasuke) couldn’t and had to use kotoamatsukami to break free. he’s def stronger than kcm1 but kcm2 claps his cheeks inside and out
@@davidhall3894 The issue is your prolly thinking of his Early/Mid War Arc variant.
Post-Juubito Fight EMS is insane, being relative or superior to Blind SM Madara, a weaker Madara blitzed SM Naruto, with a Senjutsu amp fought equally with BSM Naruto, take away the Senjutsu amps and he’s relative to KCM2.
Its worse if I argue that EMS Sasuke had the PS at the end of the Juubito-Fight, the thing likely needed to push him to EMS Madara’s level.
Even tho i hate it ems Sasuke was clearly relative too juubito somehow
@@gameuniverse5973 no he’s not. Tobirama
said he “could surpass madara”, meaning EMS sasuke still hasn’t reached madara
level. No way is he relative to obito, BSM naruto carried that fight.
vs battles what we want and need bro. keep up the good work
Before I continue, I knew I was locked in before the intro was started man. Looking forward to a great video🙌🏾
Imagine Tobirama meeting Tobi.
He did
@@damaritodd2180 not Obito,Tobi,the goofy one
Short Answer : Tobirama beats almost every version of sasuke outside of Rinnegan teen sasuke , adult rinnegan sasuke and adult no rinnegan sasuke ( he still has lightning cloak without rinnegan)
Ems definitely wins keep coping
@@Alexmasonciaantij00he won't bro got scared of tobirama when they got reanimated
@@MonicaHolly143that’s not even near peak ems sasuke
@@Yorch_TV we are tlking about the sasuke that is in the shrine not peak use ur head
@@MonicaHolly143 oh ok then u re right
"behind Danzo, of course" LMFAO! GOLD
Entertaining as always. Keep it up.
Would have been really cool to see the Edo paperbomb combo. It's the one thing that can lay pressure on given the regen of Edo's
Part of why Sasuke started going darker in personality was because his guts were replaced by Juugo's guts(because Killer B mortally wounded him).
Love the video six!
Tobirama so slept on he’ll always be one of my favorites. I’m still on the side that EMS Sasuke still doesn’t take it, his Susanoo was not perfect either lol it was semi-perfect
With the Majestic Attire it was a Perfect Susanoo wrapped around the Kurama Avatar.
@@Kcinthasun wasn't sasuke buffed by jugo to do that as well as kurama chakra cloak?
Alive Tobirama could win. His FTG makes it impossible for Uchiha to react to him as shown when he killed Izuna. Also, he just needs to touch Sasuke once and he’ll be able to teleport into the Susano. Sasuke’s only defense is Amaterasu, which Tobirama could very well react to considering he was the fastest shinobi of his time. Tobirama has actually kept up with and, on one occasion, surpassed Minato in terms of reaction speed when they were both Edo Tensei.
He could always use the Tandem Paper Bomb to tie with Sasuke as well, if not he may have an Edo that could be used as well.
WRONG. His ftg is not equal to 4ths ftg. He simply teleported a short distance with a melee attack, which prevented his attack being able to be seen.
@@bobjohnson1633 I never said the 2nd was equal to Minato in ftg. I said he could keep up with Minato’s ftg. Meaning that even though Minato is faster Tobirama isn’t much slower. Of course at their level of speed even a slight difference can put you on a whole other level.
As for his flying thunder god slash you just admitted he can prevent his attack from being seen. If Sasuke can’t see the attack coming then he won’t be able to take advantage of the Sharigan’s visual prowess. Sasuke has never fought someone who could actually use the technique so it’s unlikely he’d be able to react to it in time.
Also you never addressed the possibility of alive or Edo Tobirama using the tandem paper bomb.
@@bobjohnson1633FTG is not shunshin. He said Minato shunshin is better not FTG. How can you teleport faster since it happens instantly?
@@TienNguyen-ky4dx Thank you!
This Minatotards immediately cry when their Minato God is compared to Tobirama HAHAHAHAH they're like onions@@bobjohnson1633
Yeah so when ems sasuke got blitzed by imperfect juubito and then Tobirama blitzed that juubito with paper bombs and his ftg seal, and then saved naruto and sasuke from dying twice. Such a good fight dog… really competitive
You mean Tobirama got blitzed too and horrible lose half of his body in order to set the trap? Really good achievement
@@АртиКотов-х8й he placed 6 tags on juubito whil juubito can hit him once, sure he got half his body destroyed because of juubito’s power not his speed the speed was in Tobirama’s favor
Noodles please make a tobirama vs akatsuki video
sasuke stomps tobirama no diff. you guys are delusional fanboys
@@tylerberman7527 feats say otherwise .
tobirama has a mental amp in this fight. Sure, we have seen how strong he is when fighting uchihas, but when fighting with the guy that killed Itachi? Tobirama gon go crazyy
I mean sasuke prolly gets a mental amp as well. His ambition + tobirama being at least part responsible for the torment all the uchiha’s had to go through def gotta get him a rage amp
@@ddl3718 Tobirama wasnt responsible for the shitty treatment of the uchihas and he actually treated them well, the problem was Madara (who the whole clan hated for good reason) and later danzo who took advantage of the mess madara created (nine tails)
@@GeorgeMMA you think ems Sasuke cares
We also have to consider who Tobirama would edotensei in a fight. Depending on the summon it would give him a large advantage over Sasuke. He would have 2 shadow clones and an edtensei ally to fight Sasuke. Eventually Sasuke would get overwhelmed by the amount of enemies he is facing.
Sasuke: I’n going to destroy the village!
Tobirama: Watch me murder an Uchiha!
To be honest? I think Tobirama was the best hokage. I know that's a stretch, but think. Hashirama created the basic structure, like a wooden outline (pun intented) to a full on house. Tobirama built on that drastically and made the foundations for a village that would survive 3 ninja wars and rebuild after being destroyed twice. He could create water out of air. AIR! He had one of the most legendary swords out there only behind the 7 ninja swordsmen's weapons and *maybe* the kusanagi. He created the Flying Thunder God and the Impure World Ressurection. Tobirama was the best hokage, hands down.
Impure World Ressurection caused so many problems(See War Arc), I would argue that’s really not a good thing.
Besides, without Tobirama, Konoha wouldn’t be near the level of “Strongest Village” but, without Hashirama, Konoha wouldn’t exist and Naruto would still be in the Warring States Era. Who’s going to establish the Village with the Uchiha? The “Racist Hokage”?
@@actuallyreallybored That's a bad take, sure the Edo Tensei was a jutsu that shouldn't have been created or shared with other.
But Tobirama did give the Uchiha the Police force so that they would have a big role to play when it came to the village, it was Danzo that literally separated them from the rest of the Village.
@@lipe9039 I'm not saying Tobirama is a shit Kage or Danzo isn't basically responsible for half of Konoha's Problems.
But Tobirama making peace with Madara is just silly.
Plus Tobirama created the PF as a way to keep the Uchiha's emotions in check, not of good faith.
@@actuallyreallybored nope, he literally had the strongest uchiha at the time (besides Madara), kagami uchiha along side him protecting him why would he not trust them and then place the strongest in the village as his 2nd right hand
@@lipe9039 That only happened cause Hashirama and Madara actually created peace and made the village.
Tobirama didn't even know Kagami until Post-WSE. Hashirama and Madara was the literal only remotely positive relationship between Senju and Uchiha before the Village was made.
Kagami is also explicitly stated to be one of the *few* Uchiha Tobirama believed in.
The biggest issue I have with vs battles especially Naruto battles in particular is lack of info on characters we don’t know how strong prime hiruzen is we just him as a fossil we don’t know how hashirama died. And even for tobirama yeah he lost but we don’t know exactly how or even what state he was in. Also the fact that tactics and strategy seem to be less important than part 1 and early part 2 makes these less exciting
Yea, and all things considered, wasnt the kinkaku and Ginkaku squad made of 20 S-class shinobi......................That quite literally means Tobirama went down fighting a squad of basically 20 low to mid tier Akatsuki level fighters, all with their own unique jutsu and individual levels of strength and skill not to mention 2 of which who quite literally have version 2 nine tails cloaks to fight with as well as the sage of 6 paths weapons.................There's barely 10 people in the entire series who can survive this situation, not to mention the brothers we see fighting against Darui are nerfed by the edo tensei and are probably drastically stronger back then
W what a banger W takes
Finally a good analysis of Tobirama, loved the video
3:52… Sasuke wasnt able to use Perfect Susano until he got a rinnegan though lol.
The ps is shown when he wraps the kyuubi avatar with the diamond from the ps there
@@gameuniverse5973 perfect susanoo has wings and u always at the top in the diamond shape
You kind of missed that sasuke got a buff from naruto before they even fought in control jubito. But tobirama just doesn't have answers for most of sasuke's justus so ems beats him outright
Name some justu that he has that can kill tobirama before he got rinnegan blaze release is not touching him kirin need’s prep time susanno is not touching him sasuke would run out of chakra tobirama would kill that form of sasuke
I will never understand how someone can say “Tobirama created the tandem paper bombs to use with the edo tensei” and then continue to restrict alive tobirama from using it😭 makes absolutely no sense. He can use it while alive, he just doesn’t perform the jutsu with his own body. He sends some unnamed edo to do it for him.
Or a Shadow clone if possible.
@@headshotmaster138 you dint think ems Sasuke won't see the shadow clone with bunch of paper tags covering it when with a base Sharigan he saw micro bombs
@@gameuniverse5973
Seeing it and dodging it are two totally different things my guy. Remember how well he saw Bee's swords yet still got clapped?
@@grandempress1947 Bee is as fast as it gets without a Shunshin no Jutsu, Bee is an exception
How are you gonna just graze over his speed and bringer of darkness like
He didn’t use one of them
To kill a uchiha who was suppose to match madaras power…
Tobirama would literally either blitz him or use bringer of darkness. Lol
doubt bringer of darkness would work and sasuke could prolly beat him if he uses his susanoo
@@doctorfloppa2021 you cant just say you doubt it would work, and considering sasuke as far as we know has no idea what it is that would make it more effective. i agree though i dont see how he gets through the susanoo
Tobirama has only fought against a uchiha with regular mangekyo
I assume you speaking of Izuna as madara's equal that he killed
Both izuna and madara had basic mangekyo
Sasuke has EMS when he meets tobirama
@@GeorgeMMA it won't work when itachi can't genjustu early ems Sasuke with tsukoyimi wtf is bringer of darkness doing
@@gameuniverse5973 When did itachi use tsukoyomi on ems sasuke what??
Tandem paper bomb is used on people Tobirama animate as well right,
so he should be able to use the jutsu when alive
Ftg away from the explosion
Bro these are the verses we need the obscure fights we forgot could’ve popped off
This man needs a million subs
MS Sasuke fought and won against Unruly Ay, who's movement speed was comparable to Minato, who is faster then Tobirama. MS Sasuke was reacting to Ay even when his Lightning Armour was amp to Bijuu level, according to Karin, and would have killed Ay with Amatarasu had Gaara not saved him. The same Ay who heard that Kinkaku and Ginkaku were reanimated and was ready to go into the battlefield with only one arm. The Silver and Gold brothers were the ones responsible for killing Tobirama.
MS Sasuke also fought Danzo, a student of Tobirama, and outsmarted him. Tobirama fought Uchiha's most of his life, yet he passed on that knowledge to Danzo, but Danzo knows more about the Uchiha's than Tobirama because of the fact he was spying on them for years. If MS Sasuke won his fight against Danzo by outsmarting him, then I have no reason to believe Sasuke wouldn't be able to outsmart someone less knowledgeable then Danzo.
EMS Sasuke has reacted to Juubito's attack, saved MasteredKCM1 Naruto from a TruthSeekingOrb, that not even KCM Minato reacted fast enough to save his son himself.
I don't see Tobirama winning this fight, KCM1 Naruto tanked the Cataclysm attack from the Juubi and EMS Sasuke is casually above that. His Susano'o tanked the TruthSeekingOrb attack from Juubito when Tobirama's tandem paper bomb explosions couldn't even destroy a TruthSeekingOrb.
The say I see it is that Sasuke has Speed feats, Reaction feats, Attack Power feats, Durability feats, Tactical Intelligence feats.
People think “Tobirama’s fast” but they’re forgetting that Sasuke’s also fast as fuck
@@SpiegelsSolipsism not only that, people also forget that Sasuke is a tactician too. In universe characters praise people like Shikamaru for his intellect, Tobirama and his inventions, Itachi and his talent, yet Sasuke isn't praised for his genius but he shows us. They talk the talk, but Sasuke walks the walk.
Danzo may have been a little more knowledgable about uchias, but danzo lacked the power & speed, Literally 👍
@@kelvinallen9327 agreed
@@kelvinallen9327i think Danzo is stronger than given credit for, he has hashirama cells which Amp stats
Why do versus battles always take Edo Tensei away from Tobirama? He used it enough in life that the revived Kage during the war thought he was the summoner initially. And everyone needs prep to perform it, including Kabuto. So I think alive Tobirama should have two states: one with Edo Tensei prep and one without.
Tobirama is my second favorite character next to hashirama I think his hate of the uchiha clan is completely valid losing multiple brothers in the war will do that to u I think he was insanely powerful and i also wish we would’ve seen more of both of them
It seem like every other video six got a different interpretation of the Sakura saying she finally caught up to Naruto and Sasuke , I just pointed this out on the Sakura vs Hinata video where he said she isn't relative to them in power and it was just a resolve the he dropped this and proved my point 🤦
he picks and chooses what feats he wants to use or dispute to bolster his points and then whenever someone calls out the nonsensical logic he claims you don’t understand and are interpreting wrong😂
Not to disagree with you just my 2 takes on that sakura statement.
In power meaning destructive damage obviously are you gonna argue that sakura has the same level of iq as sasuke or that sakura has the same level of stamina as naruto she doesn't that statement means she is relative to them in destructive damage and even then naruto had more damage potential than sakura.
Thank you I've been saying this🤦🏾♂️
I always saw Tobirama as more of a creative rather than power for the sake of power kind of Shinobi.
He INVENTED a wide array of jutsu that many of the strongest characters to come out of Naruto use as their calling card. Minato, Orochimaru being two key examples. No doubt most people’s fav shinobi could take him down. But he was the forerunner for ALOT of characters that came after. That’s where my respect for him is
EMS Sasuke takes this with the lower end of Hard Diff:
- Water Style Jutsus are getting evaded, or not hitting precisely enough to down Sasuke. Sasuke dodged Killer Bee’s V1 and Danzo’s Wind Style Air Bullet (from behind I might add).
- IF Tobirama were to get caught in Genjutsu it’s a GG for Tobirama…
- FTG is only viable if they can mark you (Chidori Stream counters only with good timing) or their Kunai is within range. All Sasuke has to do is gauge the distance a thrown Kunai would have, then he literally counters with Susanoo Arrows. EMS has no problem spamming those arrows for days. Tobirama COULD lay out a mass of Kunai on the area to teleport / dodge but all Sasuke would need to do is Enton the field. Without FTG, Sasuke’s Sharingan will literally precog Tobirama’s movements and auto aim those arrows to his heart.
- Tandem Paper Bomb is EXTREMELY slow… The target would need to be held down, as the Jutsu needs time to replicate the bombs over and over. The AP on this Jutsu is HUGE to be fair, but if Sasuke was able to BULLSHIT his way out of Deidara’s Suicide Jutsu, then there’s absolutely no chance that Sasuke is getting caught with this move.
Though by no means is it an easy win for Sasuke as both contestants have well above average Battle IQ which could result in being the variable for this fight. Even so, Sasuke takes this fight hands down. Itachi Vs Tobirama would have been a fairer comparison but I could see people already yelling “Totsuka Blade” so I won’t get into it.
Well said
Itachi is stronger than Tobirama anyways
0:22 Tobirama has baby hands. 🤣
Tobirama's like, seems like Itachi missed one.
Probably the worst thing about Naruto is random plot power ups. And I'm not talking about Naruto using the 9 tail, sage made, kcm. I'm talking about base forms randomly getting way more powerful. Basically training is useless because they get more powerful just because they mad. Obviously 13 year old Narutos base will go up naturally but look at Kakashi. Gut was 26 in P1 and he was zabuza level and he had the sharingan since 13. And he's known for it so clearly he uses it. But 13 years after getting the sharingan he can only use it for 1 fight and then being koed for days after and then in shippuden (2 years later) he mastered it. And then used his MS and went from being in the hospital for months after using it a few times to dying from using it too much to the war arc. They say by the time someone fully upgrades their susanoo they go blind. So plot said Kakashi can master his kamui long before going blind
FINALLY some respect for toibrama!
I really wanna see Sasuke use a modified version of his all around move set like an encased armor infernal style covering the Susuno or lighting covering it
6:46 it just came to my mind that this technipue is why madara said: " the original point the reanimation jutsu is to take people down with you
I think any form of second hokage could wreck any form of sasuke if he doesn't have perfect susanoo. Like you said there just isn't enough information about the second hokage to know if he could beat the perfect susanoo
What are you saying 😐
hiraishin beats pretty much anything as long as the caster marked his target.
susanoo cant protect sasuke when tobirama simply teleports inside it.
@@uteriel282 sasuke is more than capable of avoiding being tagged. he was keeping up w/ juubito and bsm naruto. and tobirama himself admitted that he was inferior to base minato in terms of ftg
As a Tobirama Stan. I’ll take it
If its natural Mangekyou Sasuke, without amps from Itachi's eyes or 6 path chakra gift, then Tobirama stomps.
I mean, Tobirama made EMS Sasuke sht himself just by lifting his finger and *flexing his reiatsu* , but EMS Sasuke is a different beast in the war. He's keeping up with Juubito and scales to BSM Naruto with curse mark amps from Jugo.
In terms of Sasuke shitting himself I don’t think that was really the case, I see people bringing this up constantly but if you look at the panel it looks more like he was getting ready to fight or was just surprised by the sudden increase in his chakra, I mean he obviously didn’t feel too threatened because he didn’t even activate his sharingan but idk Sasuke probably would have lost at the point in time tbh so its kinda up for interpretation
You’re wrong, but saying it in the comments won’t help you, join the server
@@TrippyfromKonoha tobirama has better speed feats against juubito imo
@@Yu-dp5hp I’m not saying Sasuke would beat Tobirama at that point in time but I definitely don’t think he was scared of him like everyone says
Ems Sasuke got a mental amp with his Sharigan since it actually stated in the datebook that it can happen that why he stronger in the juubito fight also no Tobirama does not have better speed feats than ems Sasuke he was reacting too stable juubito while Tobirama reacted too unstable juubito
I always find it interesting that these god tier fully grown adult fighters are close in strength to a teenager who's not even the main character. I.e Full potential fighter vs Mid potential fighter.
your doing great six
What's stopping Tobirama from using the Tandem Explosive Tags then leaving with FTG?
The jutsu description says it means certain death for the user meaning that's probably not possible
@@sixfromtokyo he uses edo tensei then dips
@@teeheeteeeheeididit6379 you need hella prep for that you need a living sacrifice as well as a body to summon
Some additional Tobirama hype. Water slicing wave could cut through the Susanoo, at any phase short of Rinnegan Sasuke. Maybe, majestic attire couldCutting through the God Tree is absolutely cracked, and he did it while simultaneously being drained of chakra. Even Minato wasn't able to do anything there. The god tree tanked the combined explosion of 4 Juubibombs simultaneously, while being trapped inside a barrier, unscathed.
To me that is crazy AP, and you could argue it even higher if you want to scale Hiruzen above the godtree, since he also smashed through portions of it with his staff. This is due to cutting straight through alive Hiruzens giant mud wall like it wasn't even there. Its contentious, but its worth also mentioning that Earth style is water styles better on the elemental chakra wheel.
You can also scale Tobirama and Base Hashirama's durability being above Hiruzens fire-style jutsu as they just stood in the flame wave for a few moments before countering. That, or you may also consider it a speed feat, because these fights happen at higher speeds anyway. And you could imply this was intended to be interpreted as him itercepting the flames just a moment before they started taking damage in the manga. In the anime, they definitely just stood there for a minute. Of course, all of these last two are dependent on where you actually put Hiruzen.
Tobirama could feasibly use Tandem Paper Bomb while alive with FTG, but I absolutely agree with not using it in debates. That, "I've never used this" statement is too strong of evidence to refute. That being said, I absolutely agree that this is his highest DC, and its pretty busted.
Infinite slice is slept on, and I don't know why it isn't talked about more in these. Functionally, I think its the best ftg offensive technique. Minato could definitely perform it, if he evet learned it, and now imagine eating his rasengan an implied infinite, probably just unquantifiable, number of times, in one teleport. That's not to say that either translate to truly infinite AP. One would just need the durability to tank it no matter what, and its still gonna sting.
Now to debunk some overhyped things. Tobirama's sensory ability is good, but nothing special. He appears to have to focus, and its move of a spacial awareness thing. So its not like it gives him pre-cognition once the fight begins.
The other thing is Kenjutsu. You MIGHT be able to argue Tobirama's would outclass Sasuke's to a degree, but Sasuke is better with advanced shuriken jutsu. So I believe they balance out. Lightning style kenjutsu is a wash, since they can both reasonably use it.
The only thing I'll call cap on, is Sasuke being equal to Naruto. He is, at best, equal to a Naruto that had given out 3x Kakashi chakra to 1000's of ninja once, and each 1 of those has the durability to tank the Ten Tails Cataclysm. Then later gave up an even greater amount of chakra than that, per cloak, to everyone again, including Sasuke. Using the Majestic Attire doesn't prove equal alone, It just proves that Sasuke can now use majestic attire.
Sasuke's able to balance the amaterasu with Naruto's wind style, not because they're using the same abount of chakra, but because they both have good chakra control. The way wind-style and fire style interact, in general, would mean that even if Sasuke could match the chakra density of the rasenshuriken with amaterasu, he'd still have to hold it back.
To me, before you can say EMS Sasuke and BSM/KCM2 Naruto were truly equals, you would have to objectively prove that those two chakra hand outs were negligible. And that EMS Sasuke would be able to do the same, and still be able to accomplish everything else he did after, but before the Hagoromo heal.
That doesn't really affect your conclusions, because I its not like I think Tobirama has that much chakra either. I just wanted to put it out there.
That's more than enough from me though. Still agreat video, and its nice to see that the community has evolved from the Tobirama
When Sasuke mentioned if he wanted to exact revenge on the leaf, Tobirama had the 'evil uchiha' slur in his hot keys. Lol he was about to do more with that finger than the Thousand years of death jutsu.
The problem with Tobirama is that he has a vast array of jutsu but he doesn’t have any jutsu that deals massive damage. He’s very similar to Hiruzen in my eyes. He solos non-ototsuki ninjas.
His chakra is large, dont forget a younger tobi defeated a younger mangekyo izuna. Many years would have passed. Tobirama is a creative fighter, he can defeat sauske. Its not like amaterasu or susano arrow is gonna touch him. 👍
I thought you were gonna be done with vs battles a couple months ago?
Edit:don’t stop btw I still somehow love them but I thought you said you didn’t like doing them
Hey Six. I got banned and I'm not sure why. I didn't even get a warning. Could we message or nah?
Didn't know if my message was loaded or not. So if you see another message of mine around here. Then sorry.
Lokking forward to this!
Itachi and Nagato vs Hashirama would be interesting I think. Or even Hashirama vs the rest of the edo tensei, could he beat them all or could a specific team cause him problems
Hashirama is murking unless you include kcm Minato, Tobirama,and hiruzen
Edo itachi was on a league of his own. Itachi only problem was his stamina , durability and chakra which were fully amplified due to his edo version as you will not run out of chakra and Itachi susano is really something very powerful. So yes edo Itachi along with edo nagato will slam edo Hashirama
Alive Tobirama > any version of Sasuke before Rinnegan Sasuke
Edo tobirama is similar
Yep
That's pretty Much It
no, tobirama is no where near madara’s level at all. Sasuke has the ems which gives him an amp that separates him from everybody. To suggest tobirama is stronger than an ems user even tho it’s known he’s weaker than madara just doesn’t make sense if he couldn’t fight ems madara how can he fight ems sasuke? He gets stomped.
@@xvingar6318 what ARE You saying brother?
EMS Sasuke stronger than ems MADARA?
When?
How?
What in the world?
You smoked some really weird Shit DUDE
Tobirama yes he wins every version of Sasuke But Rinnegan Sasuke
@@xvingar6318 lol EMS Madara> EMS Sasuke that’s how
@@ronaldportillo448 yeah
This Guy xvigar
smokes Shit That's why he's talking nonsense After nonsense
It’s full body sousanno I know I spelled that wrong 😂
Time for that Tobirama downplay from Six. Stepping stone fodder
If you think there’s any tobirama downplay join the discord
@@abrahamlincoln7907 that's a great quote abe 👌
Oh my god he said Tobirama > Ems Madara in speed is possible. The character development
@@angrydaniel2905 i highly doubt Tobirama was faster than ems Madara but eh
@@angrydaniel2905 six is a gigachad now
Why ya editing don't act like the pitch of ya voice change
just cause we didn't much of izuna, does not mean he is weaker than sasuke. He is compared to madara more or less obviously, and you gotta remember these guys grew up during war, it was common everyday for them. they trained all their life till their deaths.
1. He's featless
2. Don't remember any comparisons of izuna to Madara but even if there were any, it would be comparing MS Madara, not EMS
Tobi was a second born like me. We never get as much recognition
NIGGA IS THIS THE REAL SASUKE?!
@@sixfromtokyo yea man I'm the drawn up guy from the piece of paper and animated series. Its me,, I'm real
@@SasukeUchiha-xy4vj that's crazy
@@sixfromtokyo imagine how I feel. 🤔 6 is half of 12. I am literally a second born left handed leo abandoned my former life where everything I believed was a lie. Sasuke is more relatable altho Obi is the goat and I appreciate your video and responses. Makes you seem more real to me too
Going ems Sasuke he way too versatile with Amaterasu than just shooting it and both have juubito speed scaling so no you can't just use that too say Tobirama wins
Ayo six. Do you work at chase bank? I know it’s a weird question but I lost my debit card and needed help getting a new one sent in. I swear it was you who answered the phone. Thanks for the help family.
It's not me bruh...
bro made 3 of the main jutsu of the series and he got the drip , put some respect on my bois name
Tobirama puts the finger back up. ☝️
Been waiting for this one
Bruh where tf Seth and swag been? Are they strictly stream now?
They'll be back real soon :)
six can you do a sasuke vs minato all versions
Hey six, when do you think you'll stop letting Seth little bro you?
Can't recall a time he ever did that but, when do you think you'll stop being a loser?
@@sixfromtokyo probably around the time you get back on bars
Amen have a blessed day
Okay, there was a lot of analysis in this video. But you skimmed right over the fact that Tobirama should be faster AND have more chakra/endurance than all of Sasuke's forms. That is a huge deal. In all of your guys's videos you hype up and Minato mostly for his speed, saying he could simply blitz anyone he's faster than. I don't see how you couldn't even address this argument, if Tobirma is positively faster (I know you said that's if you take the madara statement to be true, but I mean yeah.. he also blitzes juubito and dodges a point blank attack from sage mode Madara). Like, c'mon bruh.
Also, you keep bringing up the fight with Edo tensei Tobi versus old hiruzen. This was a very unrefined Edo tensei, orochimaru States so himself when he later creates a way better one, backed up by Kabuto who refines it even more after that. These guys were at very low power compared to their alive versions, and yes I do think it's realistic for hashirama and tobirama to be that far above the third hokage in power, they were war children just like Madara. That being said, a very nerfed Tobirama doing good against old hiruzen is far more impressive than Sasuke v Kabuto.
I just simply don't see EMS Sasuke beating Tobirama. Sasuke got blitzed and experienced the most humbling experience when blind Madara made him look like a fly trapped in a spider's web, while Tobirama while weakened by edo tensei got a couple dodges from that same Madara a couple seconds prior.
To further prove my point, the EMS Sasuke you're using in the Juubito fight was on par to edo Tobirama but Sasuke was also buffed by both Kurama's chakra and Jugo's sage chakra, and according to Kakashi, Kurama's chakra is a 3x amp(I think it is, I don't remember Kakashi's exact line). The fact that EMS Sasuke buffed by Kurama and Jugo is equal to edo Tobirama shows that solo EMS Sasuke would be inferior to edo Tobirama, let alone Tobirama in his prime, not by a large margin though(for edo, I can see prime Tobirama mid diff EMS Sasuke). To top that argument off, both Naruto and Sasuke only managed to perform so well in the early stages of the battle because Tobirama and Minato were enabling them with their flying raijin seals.
I also think Tobirama's as fast as Minato, the former praises Minato's prowess in flicker, not specifically the flying raijin. How can Minato be faster in the flying raijin if both of them are a teleport? You can't be faster than the other if the both are instantaneous, Minato just developed the seal more I guess.
Going back to Juubito here, we see Juubito have the capabilities to clash and keep up with Sasuke and Naruto, while Tobirama and Minato were constantly perception blitzing Juubito with ease, and I'm positive Juubito's reaction time should be higher than EMS Sasuke's.
To end things off I personally think Tobirama's chakra finger flex is a valid argument her. Tobirama flexing one finger worth of chakra managed to dirty the entirety of Taka's underwear, including Sasuke and forced Orochimaru to prepare the control seal. Sure Hashirama boasted more power than Tobirama in that moment, but one finger was able to humble Sasuke to the point where he actually started stressing out(the drop of sweat).
In conclusion, I see any form of Tobirama low-mid diffing MS Sasuke, edo Tobirama would high diff Sasuke and prime Tobirama would easily mid diff EMS Sasuke all because he has a fairly developed susano'o.
But tobirama got absolutely destroyed by 1 Rinnegan madara without limbo, a weaker version of this madara was able to blitz sage mode naruto yet was comparable in taijutsu to sasuke. Sasuke only got killed because of Limbo which is the same technique that took out all the tailed beasts
@@christianramirez3754 Sasuke’s taijutsu was nowhere near Madara’s. He didn’t even spar with Madara, he just frozen in the air then stabbed. Tobirama actually contested against Madara for a couple seconds.
@@Chubbs2206 when madara was revived he fought madara for way longer than tobirama did, and managed to land a hit on his arm
I think a prime tobirama waxes sasuke .. when I say prime I mean prime tobirama vs sasuke prime (no six path) since tobirama didn’t get any amps from the sage it’s only fair .. sasuke would fold no question .. it took 20 s rank akatski like members to kill tobirama & 2 out of those 20 ninjas had kurama chakra beast forms (4 tail form like Naruto vs orochimaru)
Tobirama is faster than Madara who is faster than Ay
Ems vs tobirama is the closest. Only hope he has is ftg. However I doubt tobirama has anything beside his paper tandem bomb to do anything to the susanoo. Even then, he would only use that as an edo. The battle favors ems sasuke heavily. You could also say, since he knows that tobirama did the clan dirty he would have a hate/ms amp while fighting him.
An actual good take.
Also ninja storm 4 does a good job of showing the character progression in the character selection. Showing a distinct difference between ms nd 5 kage summit sasuke. In fact Karin mentioned his chakra 3 times during the 5 kage summit vs the one time for ms.
I always went for Sasuke since his Amaterasu kinda negs most of Tobirama kit
Completely agree
why would he need to do anything to the susanoo? As long as he doesn’t get hit, then he’ll make sasuke exhaust chakra using susanoo.
I need these everyday
Bro got them Seth the programer thumbnails now
SO wild thought. Indra and Asura were brothers, so their decedents should also be related. SO Naruto and Sasuke were related, just like Madara and Hashiyama. Also, Naruto married a distant cousin. WILD!!!
Another W from six what a good day
I wish Tobirama had a Kekkei Genkai like Hashirama
Tobirama's kekkei genkai is his Senju bloodline. He has crazy stamina, strong body, and amazing chakra reserves.
Sasuke doesnt have sage mode and is much slower than tobirama and will lose to any virsion of tobirama unless talking about rinnegan sasuke:
2 forms of proof:
1) madara only dodged tobirama due to sage mode, even if sasuke is wary he cannot dodge because unless you know where they will appear from the data book states youre dead.
2) this one is the most impressive speed feat tobirama has over sasuke and can even suggest that he could take him down with ease. When obito was about to blow everyone up with his truth seeker orb sasuke tried to form the ribcage before it even formed tobiramas clone, came in, stood for a second, took the orb went away and teleported obito and the orb away before the ribcage could form (obviously when he teleported back it was formed) whats so special about this is that IT WAS A CLONE THAT DID THAT. In the pannel where minato and tobirama were combining their attacks with naruto and sasuke. Tobirama proceeds to state that his "clones are slower at using flying raijin" so it was the origional that was apart of the attack.
The fact that a clone was that fast just means that the origional would blitz sasuke before he can even use his susanoo to defend him. Sage mode on madara was the only reason the war didnt end early multiple times lol (because really if hashirama didnt beat his ass tobirama would have 1 shot him)
There is 0 chance that anything less than rinnegan/ 6 paths sasuke would give tobirama a challange. Ap dont matter if your heads not attached to your neck
Are u serieus right neowww
So imma ask a question... did you watch the video til the end or did u just make a comment?
Sasuke is capable of fighting along side kcm 1.5 Naruto. This Naruto is compared in speed to minato which means sasuke with his ems on has relativistic speed. Datebook statements like that are exaggerated and take a different meaning most the time. Tobirama using a clone to stop a truth seeking orb from blowing up isn’t a impressive speed feat as everyone was ready for it including sasuke being able to put up his susanoo ribcage fully before it almost blew up. Sasuke wins.
@@xvingar6318 Sasuke’s definitely doesn’t win
@@HC-gm4fo proof?
Lol, I don’t think Sasuke has ever fought anyone he thought was stronger than him unless he was forced to.
Sees Sasuke vs the sound four and Sasuke vs Naruto five Kage