Sage Naruto vs The Sannin - The Real Winner?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2022
- In this video me and @Swagkage go over our opinion/interpretations of how a hypothetical fight between Sage Naruto and all 3 sannin would go. We were being as honest as possible giving our actual interpretations and trying to figure out who wins we mainly talk about Pain arc Naruto and then towards the end we go over War arc Naruto a little bit.
Ninjutsu are useless ALMOST...: • Ninjutsu have lost ALL...
Thanks for Watching :)
Np daddy 😜🥰
Do a video on Konohamaru Sarada and Mitsuki, saying how these bums can get stronger. I think Sarada is super simple, give her an MS power on par with the new characters like Eida and her brother. Mitsuki is already a scientific augmented character, have him go to his father for augments. Konohamaru honestly is just slacking, if Kakashi can be strong with no Sharingan, Konohamaru can at least not be lacking against weak ass foes and actually do something useful.
If you wanna vid topic. Try sakumo vs anyone. Obviously he no diffs the sannin. But sakumo has to be kage level
Swag kage said naruto beat the asura path with just a punch when you can see there is a rasengan in his hands at 7:26
(sorry i just wanted to state this out)
@@nagatoshines WTF 😳
Funnily, Swag just had to mention Madara at least once. Even funnier, Six (or the editor) acknowledged it.
This kid is the ultimate Madara Simp, haha
Lmao
He can't make a video without at least mentioning him at least once
It’s hilarious but it’s still relevant so far
I mean mentioning Madara was relevant in order to discuss Tsunade's feats/strength
In defense of jiraiya, had we seen him in the war arc he’d have probably gotten a massive boost in power like every other war arc character did.
Jiraiya should have fought Edo Nagato
@@humanitysfinest9795 Edo Nagato stomps Jiraiya no diff....he can absorb whatever Jiraiya does and just Shinra tensei Jiraiya gg...his movements were also stated to be better than the six paths of pain
@SEMIR Orochimaru no arms fought toe to toe with teen 4 tailed Naruto while Jiraiya got slapped by kid 4 tailed Naruto.... Jiraiya only has one giant rasengan....unlike Naruto who can use Shadow clones and do a lot of giant rasengans....you are forgetting Orochimaru's durability.... Orochimaru's snake hydra also was going toe to toe with Itachis's susanoo and he was even laughing at it and saying you really think the sword can hurt me....till he realised that it was the totsuka blade... Which btw Itachis's susanoo has the Yata mirror....and Naruto's giant rasengan gets blocked easily by Madara's hunanoid susanoo...again remember this is no armed Orochimaru....Full power Orochimaru smacks Jiraiya bruh
@@DS-dw3pz orichimaru with no arms did not fight toe to to with 4 tailed naruto lol, he 'died' like seventeen times. the only reason he survived is bc he has the shed skin hax to survive death. that's like saying danzo fought toe to toe with kage summit sasuke
@@RyokoEarth your example is pure crap... durability is one of the feats of Orochimaru and you have to accept that... Danzo you could say that since he kept using stolen sharingans and kept dying and even Sasuke against Killer Bee had to get Karin's help to keep healing after getting serious blows.... Orochimaru reviving himself is part of him....yes he was being overpowered but he still kept his ground and did hurt the 4 tailed abit...he nvr died or was really injured at the end of the fight....that's considered great for someone with no arms
An additional argument for the pain statement for Jiraiya: Even if Jiraiya does beat the 6 paths after knowing their secret, its not due to battle power, Jiraiya has many hax abilities that we never see Naruto use that can remove pains from the battlefield completely or stun them, i.e. can not revive them, for example the frog belly that leads to a pain being replaced by the time of the konoha fight, and the pains did not know about frog song at the time, so if Jiraiya had waited for all 6, he could catch them all in one frog song genjutsu. Sage Naruto has to fight some of the pains multiple times, while if Jiraiya had the knowledge he could systematically remove them to only fight each pain once. It could just be an argument for Jiraiya having better counterhax to Pain, rather than being outright stronger, as he would have better tactics to deal with a specific one of Pain's abilities, that would be irrelevant against Sage Naruto. It would be like saying Kakashi in the early-mid war arc beats KCM 2 + Sage Mode Naruto because he can hit Obito in Kamui while Naruto can't. It's a situational statement potentially regarding abilities that would be irrelevant in one on one combat with any other characters, and are reliant on battle knowledge that Pain would have been lacking against Jiraiya that he has when fighting Naruto, so Naruto performs better in an even worse matchup against Pain.
I like and agree with this point
I agree. Even tho naruto is stronger, it doesn’t mean jiraiya would preform worse under particular situations
Nah Jiraiya is not taking down all five that Naruto took down
I mean this is the crux of Kakashi vs Guy. (Aside from DMS) outright strength and power vs counterhax and trickery.
Also, Jirayia beat Kisamé outright, without Itachi, the toad stomach was an instant win condition.
This is a fair assessment
I was so excited over people powerscaling the Akatsuki as a unit, but I've found that there's almost no interesting matchup for them. Either Obito, Pain, and Itachi stomp and the rest are overkill or the entire group gets stomped
Really excited to see if the Sanin have more interesting matchups. Also yay, Swag's here!
Akatsuki vs part one Kage (hiruzen,onoki,ay,yagura,and rasa)or Edo Kage (third raikage,mu,second mizukage,and rasa)
@@gameuniverse5973 Yo wait, those two actually sound pretty fun. I'm pretty sure Akatsuki still wins, just not as handily as they usually do (I'm not a proper powerscaler, I'm just a casual fan of Swag, Seth, & Six, so take my opinion with a grain of salt lol)
I feel like Akatsuki vs the 4kage is an interesting matchup
@@tribopower the 4kage? Do you mean the 5kage? Also, which ones? I believe Swag's already made a video on the 4th war 5 Kage vs Akatsuki, and Obito, Pain, and Itachi combined stomped
@@jayd.doubledubs no he means the hokage from the war, Hiruzen, Tobirama, Minato, and Hasirama. Even with Itachi Obito and Pain the akatski lose, if Hashirama was not included it would be more interesting
This is the first interesting naruto VS video concept I've seen in a while
Sigh sees sage Kabuto vs five Kage or sage mode Minato,six tailed Naruto vs kisame,war arc Kakashi vs Edo itachi or Edo Nagato,pain vs third raikage,and white mask Obito vs ems Madara maybe one day you will get videos made by someone
Its a running concept that has been done plenty of times over.
@@PassTheButter I'm certain it has, I never implied it wasn't. That's why I said it was the first time I've seen it
oo
It's not really relevant to the topic of Naruto vs Jiraiya, but I would like to point out that Naruto actually used a Rasengan to destroy the Asura Path. In both manga and anime you can see the vestiges of it after he's hit him and if you look closely you can see that Naruto has his hand in the position he takes with the rasengan.
Yeah swag said this a lot in the past and I could’ve swore he corrected himself in a more recent video but I guess he forgot lol
I think Swag is just so used to saying it's a punch.
@@lucazaroli6761 nah I think he just hates jiraiya
@@justinbarnes1818 slander for no reason, I need to make a channel just negate some of it😂
Wait do they really not know that Naruto used Rasengan against Asura Path?
The Preta path didn't tank/catch the massive rasengan. He already had his absorption barrier up when they made contact. You can even see the rasengan starting to deform from being absorbed in the first panel. 8:05
The editor made a mistake. The panel they were referring to was at 8:01. You can see the preta path catch the rasengan.
@@reddolphin8663 the Rasengan is a mass of swirling chakra, undergoing constant chakra control. So the initial hit wouldn't be tanking the hit, but slowing the Rasengan, then subsequently absorbing it. We've seen Naruto throw a Rasengan shuriken at Pain and they absorbed it faster than Jiraya's because it was no longer under Naruto's chakra control
@@JoseSerrato0420 They absorbed it faster cus they already had the barrier up. The preta path would completely ignore any "chakra control"
@@kilokilo7254 it does not? The way Naruto defeated the Preta path was by taking in an overabundance of Senjutsu chakra that messed with the Preta path's ability to control it. If the Preta path ignored chakra control it would've gone for Naruto's own chakra instead of his nature chakra but Naruto focused on making that the primary chakra that was absorbed. In the Boruto manga, Naruto also did this by continuously expelling chakra feigning trying to keep the rasengan maintained, just to overpower an enemy that could absorb chakra. Just because Pain is OP doesn't mean they're not bound by the same rules as others, just that they can circumvent it. When the Preta path did have the barrier up there was a dent when hit by the Rasenshuriken, the absorption wasn't automatic with a high level, hard to control attack.
@@JoseSerrato0420 Sage energy becomes a part of Naruto's chakra pool, which get's absorbed by the Preta Path as well as his own chakra. But the sage energy is much more abundant and has much more of an effect, so Naruto didn't have to focus on him absorbing that only.
Any dent is just a visual flair, not an indication of effort, when Madara absorbs jutsu it's instant, including the rasenshuriken and particle style.
The idea of what Pain is saying is that if Jiraiya had the slug, feeding him info just like Naruto had, Jiraiya would have had a much easier time. Knowing a had of time about their shared field of view, how each path works, and they are all linked as one, and they are also dead most likely would have allowed him to be much more conservative in the chakra he used and would have had a much easier time coming up with strategies.
We all know Naruto lost to Pain while he had intel, now imagine the fight with no shadow clone recharges, with only Ma and Pa and with no intel, Pain would have swept.
Exactly, i personally think Pain may have been toying around a bit but i think if Jiraiya had the same intel he would have performed WAY better than he did. I also don't like how they're taking some statements as concreate but others they say are up to interpretation. Like Pa saying Naruto surpassed his predecessor alright sure but in what way? He could have just meant by mastering Sage Mode he surpassed Jiraiya but they take that as blatant fact.
Though they take the statement from Pain which is also VERY blatant as it could possibly mean something else. I ain't saying Jiraiya could beat Naruto but they're definitely down playing Jiraiya quite a bit here, also with the Preta path "tanking" the massive rasengan it sure looks like he's just absorbing it to me not sure wtf they're talking about.
@@CovenantArmada exactly! I know I’m late but the statements they were talking about were so false. Like saying “tsunade is stronger than jiraya because she fought madara and jiraya never fought someone like that”. Like what? Didn’t Tsunade get her ass demolished by pain to where she was in a coma the whole arc? Like am I missing something? That’s why I stopped watching swag I only watch Seth because he comes up with concrete facts 🎯 unlike the biased swag even six doesn’t make sense at all.
@@PlayTari tsunade was in a coma because she used all her Chakra to protect everyone in the village when pain destroyed it.
@@theNicholas2756 she used the same amount if not more against madara lol like what
@@PlayTari the war arc broke a lot of established canon. Even Kakashi could suddenly spam kamui even though he could only use it 2-3 times
That pain statement where he says they couldn’t have won feels more like nagato having respect for jiraiya and assuming that jiraiya could possibly have come up with a plan to beat the paths
Haven’t watched the vid yet but know that since Swag is here we boutta here a lot of Jiraiya disrespect
You were right they acted as if jiraiya is astronomically weaker than the other two when all the sannin are meant to be relative.
Gotta give Tsunade props for being the only female character in the whole series that isn't extremely annoying or just fodder
Temari says hi and Mei
@@quefloyd4294 Temari is cool but Mei is the ultimate fodder
Tsunade is legit the only cool female character in Naruto, shit crazy!
@@The300Player she overpowered Madara flame destroyer cut the slander!😂
@@SweaterSwagg because she is the only one Kishimoto treated like an actual character and not some dumb love interest for someone else
33:29, a minor correction, orochimaru didn't take sage kabuto's power, all he took was his own chakra and released sage mode (ch 593 last page)
Yeah I was wondering if I was just remembering it wrong. Because Sasuke and everyone were looking at him like they were about to fight him until he said it. But I think in Boruto he should be sage Kabuto level or higher one way or another. I don't think he'd be comfortable being weaker than Kabuto LMFAO
@@Picmanreborn “new body, who’s this” lmao. Naw definitely and he has a better body that doesn’t appear to be dying on him. Along with continuing his research and making people like mitsuki using his own dna. Yeah I think orochimaru is at least sage mode kabuto level. Bare minimum.
@@Picmanreborn Ehh, I would disagree about Orochimaru being uncomfortable being much weaker than Kabuto, as he's a lot more passive after he got revived, and was interested in seeing how things would turn out.
@@naveenjacob2440passive towards the hidden leaf yes, his ambitions obviously hasn’t stopped.
Saying Tsunade is stronger than Jiraiya because she fought Madara… *with four other kage level ninja alongside her*, while Jiraiya fought Pain solo, seems pretty dubious.
Madara was way stronger than 6 paths of pain and Tsunade and Onoki carried the other Kages during the War Arc fight.
@@jaries9027 but to be fair, none of the 5 kage beating pain especially if they’re going in blind. Sure you could maybe argue some would do better than jiraiya did, but at the end of the day, none of them are beating him solo with no intel so I think some of swags points against jiraiya were kinda biased cause he’s made it clear in his past videos that he doesn’t like him or atleast it’s implied the way he talks about him.
@@jaybronx98 if a casual fan went and watch swags videos they'll be led to believe all his bs biases. Jiraiya was fighting full power pain, granted only 3 of them but theyre not the ones that naruto beat coz they were also recovering. Yes Deva is not the only one recovering in the fight as konan stated it. Deva was the only one unable to use his abilty. Which is why those 3 can block Jiraiyas physical attacks but was sent flying even tho naruto didnt heat them physically
@@secondnotion9506why Naruto is stronger than Jiraiya is because he reacted way better and also has better feats, rasenshuriken...more rasengans at a time with his clones...and war arc SM Naruto he can do so many giant rasengans and few rasenshurikens
Its not about the fight in totality here, it's that Tsunade has the AP to actually hurt Madara. That's not something Jiraya can do, and he gets off guarded by a Pain that scales to Kakashi.
Needless to say Tsunade wipes the floor with Jiraya
I believe Tsunade had a mental amp during the Madara fight not only because of the will of fire, but also seeing the way that Madara used her grandfather’s cells as well as his arsenal of jutsu. He not only tried to trample on the will of fire but insulted the most powerful and essential clan in the construction of the hidden leaf. Other than Yamato she would not have seen anyone use wood release sense her grandfather. That boy Madara is a DEMON 😂
@EditorKishanKumarI dk where you got that Nagato defeat Itachi from nowhere lol
Finally the most accomplished Konochi in the verse gets her credit
Sage Mode is no joke, Naruto went to, "I can't even touch sasuke" to "yeah I body him low diff"
When?
Wtf when?😂😂😂
@@unknownplayer7667 from his fight with kakuzu when naruto doesnt have any buffd physically, just learned the rasenshuriken ( so he would get blitzed by sasuke ) to sage mode naruto that fought pain that is stronger than the sasuke that caught killer bee with the amaterasu and all
@@navami4653 narutos base gets a lot stronger..sage mode isnt a big amp..naruto in base was reactin to, dodging and being able to create rasenshurukens and throw them at pain all in base..then he went sage mode and then became SLIGHTLY stronger than the weakened pain..so he went from having mid-end relativity with pain in base to them having high end relativity in sage mode..its a tiny amp. also MS sasuke obliterates sm naruto we can debate it anytime.
@@ichigo-rz6qk SM naruto obliterates sasuke
The only issue I have with this is Jiraiya went in blind to Pains power and abilities. But he was able to figure it out during the fight. Naruto was being informed of their powers and Abilities before engaging in the battles and could adjust effectively. Yes Sage Naruto is stronger than Sage Jiraiya. But if you put Sage Naruto in Jiraiya’s position in the Rain Village, then id say he would perform worse.
Naruto got caught in the situation that killed Jiraya, but Pain needed Naruto alive.
@@FleetAdmirableDon't forget, Jiraiya didn't have to worry about his Sage Mode running out due to ma and pa, and that time limit is literally the only reason Naruto got caught.
@@dominiccampbell181in this situation, he would still have ma and pa
Naruto without ma pa helping him collect sage mode still beat 90% of pain .
If he had ma and pa help collect energy, pain would be easy . Tendo wouldn't have recovered in time .
Naruto only difficulty was keeping sage mod whole fight , with sage mode pain couldn't really touch him until Naruto was out of sage mode.
For everyone who is saying that they don’t show the panel where the Preta Path absorbs the Large Rasengan, they do just at the wrong point. They show it at 8:01
Six if you see this pls edit this into your pinned comment
do people genuinely think jiraiya could so anything to pain though? Chibaku tensei? The rods? Shinra tensei? Like idc how much people like jiraiya, you have to do some serious mental gymnastics to make it sound believable. Jiraiya's taijutsu doesnt work as he stated himself when there were only 3 paths, his ninjutsu gets absorbed and also straightup tanked as we saw in this video. Against all 6 paths he probably would never reach sagemode to begin with, and even if he manages this and starts blasting the frog song, dont forget it only worked so well because they were in the hidden rain and the pipes caused them not to be able to escape the genjutsu before it hit them. So, if Jiraiya were to fight them anywere else, he gets murked.
@@Zeziliath So do you think naruto could do any better? If you put naruto in Jiraiya’s situation, there is no chance he kills a single path of pain. He wouldn’t be able to get into sage mode, and if he somehow did, he wouldn’t be able to maintain it. He might even struggle, maybe even lose, against konan.
@@unknownplite mf saw pain said that naruto pushed him farther than anyone and still says this. Mf doesn't watch the show 🤣
@@ziggibear1920 He only pushed him that far because he was prepared for the fight with knowledge and prep. Give an actual decent argument next time.
So there were two points that I’m surprised didn’t get brought up in the video when arguing Naruto vs Tsunade. The first being Sage Naruto’s fear of managing to out react the Third Raikage and redirecting his blow into him. Now while Tsunade could heal this off, if Naruto managed to redirect one of her punches, that could cause some serious issues. Especially since it seems like with Sage Mode, the main training you can do with it once mastered is shorten the charge up time, extend the duration, and extend your range of senses. It’s not until Sage Mode is combined with something else that you can go beyond that ceiling.
Point number 2 and this is the huge one, the Rasenshuriken’s ability to sever cells from the chakra network. Tsunade said while performing the autopsy on Kakazu that she couldn’t heal those cells once they were disconnected from the chakra network. And given how Sage Naruto can make the Rasenshuriken expand once it’s thrown, Tsuande just needs to be tagged by one of his two shots and she’s fucked. Mitotic Regeneration won’t be able to heal those wounds, assuming she lives one of them.
Otherwise, great video!
She cannot heal the cells due to the fact that its structure is completely destroyed and is beyond repair, however the 100healings makes new cells instead of healing the damage ones. Just like how she said she might not be able to heal lees leg because of the damage in the bone but we clearly see her heal her spinalcord after madara stabbed her.
@@ChristopherJohnAbenion While this is true, there is only so many times the body can make new cells. And let's say it's a situation where half of her body is caught by a Rasenshuriken, if it doesn't physically rip her in half, that's still half a body she essentially has to create new cells for. That's going to rapidly drain her 100 Healings technique and shorten her lifespan by a not insignificant amount.
@@TheXehanorto the thing about in science is that multiplication and Division are the same, approximately there are 36trillion cells in the human body, each one is capable of dividing into 60 times, so in conclusion by applying the same
principle naruto would have to kill tsunade 60 times before she dies, assuming she wont run out of chakra. Otherwise even if he cut her body like madara did would not make any significant effect, it would be just like you cut your self with a knife while slicing vegies.
Your Versus concept have been going crazy. Keep it up g, one of my favorite series that you’re doing rn 😮💨💪🏾🤌🏾✨
Six always uploading right before I go on break @ work, the timing is immaculate
Sage Kabuto (No Edo summons) VS The 5 Kage? Been dying to get this talked about !!
kills them all
Sage Kabuto vs war arc Tsunade?
@@Sweetlesishere Kabuto would just outlast the 100 healings jutu that if he can't put her in the flute genjutu
@@luciandemciuc3960 ooh that's right good point although I'm not sure if he would outlast the seal since his regeneration isn't as good as
an Edo Tensei. He should also probably be faster than her I think
kabuto easily takes it he was a perfect sage with sage mode and had all of orochimaru's power not to mention had the sound 4's abilities/kekkei genkai and also jugo's clan kekkei genkai which was basically another variant of sage mode and had top tier genjutsu even enough to affect edo itachi and ems sasuke, itachi who is debatably the best genjutsu user of all time + has mangekyo sharingan and sasuke who has the eternal mangekyo sharingan and has high genjutsu resistance feats and plus was stated to be the second closest person to hagoromo otsutsuki in early war arc . also im pretty sure he can absorb chakra and debatably has the best sage mode in the series.. not to mention he scales to edo itachi/mkcm naruto/ems sasuke/edo nagato tier of characters who all in my opinion slam five kage
Been waiting for this
The weird Jiraiya hate from Six, Swag, and Seth is so annoying. I’m not saying he’s even close to sage naruto or pain but the hate these guys have for the character makes any video involving him a terrible watch. It’s the same when they bring up tobirama.
Jiraiya even being said by anyone to beat ay or killer bee is why I don't like him even tho he gets one shot blitz
Stop being a fanboy, nobody hates Jiraya.
But Jiraya is overrated. And this guys are speaking facts .
@@alex47775
Nah I’m not a fanboy jiraiya isn’t even one of my favorite characters and I don’t really overrate him strength wise but when they open the discussion with “Jiraiya sucks” then you know they just hate the character. They also do the same to Kakuzu and tobirama meanwhile they wank and love a character like sasori. They have clear biases
Depends on how you look at it. There are a lot of holes left for us to Think about. But yea dont underestimate jiraiya and deff not Tobirama. Dont see any non godlvl shinobis being able to handle him outside the likes of hashirama, Madara, sasuke naruto etc.
@@gameuniverse5973
1)Hiruzen stated to be the strongest Hokage
2) Statement puts Jiraiya Sage mode as above all the Kage.
3) Base Jiraiya is stronger than Hiruzen
I wonder how much of Naruto's initial success against pain was due to his stronger sage mode, and how much was due to Pain being fatigued from spanking the whole village before he got there.
Like did Naruto devastate pain with punches that they tanked from jiraya, or was pain simply tired to the point where he could no longer tank such blows?
Sage Naruto was that dude she told you not to worry about 😂
lol
I've never understood the confusion on Pain's statement of Jiraiya being able to win had he known Pain's secret.
It seems pretty clear and obvious that if Jiraiya had known of Nagato being separate he could have tracked him down and killed him while Frog Song was active.
THIS, as much as it doesn't seem it, Jiraya is pretty tactical. If he gets all 6 paths and knows about Nagato, he just tries to sneak out and find Nagato to kill solo.
I always saw it as that sees pain main secret is that his real body is pretty vurnable compared to his corpses
But see ur just assuming that’s what pain meant but that’s not stated
@@jasonmoukala8909 that’s literally what he said we just saw jiraya get murked , that’s the only way for Jiraya to win
@@jasonmoukala8909 no...this is what we call, "implied truths" or, things that, when taking context and other facts we've learned into account, are most likely true.
For example, we know that Jiraya recognized one of them could absorb Ninjutsu, he specifically says that he can't use Ninjutsu here. We also know he says that, "can't use Taijutsu" due to the linked vision he deduced during combat.
So, if he does know how some of the techniques works and could not defeat them until he brought out the frog song, then what other secret would pain be talking about?
Perhaps that there are other bodies- since he was still Losing to less Pains while knowing their secret.
The only other secret that would actually help him is knowing there are more, so his frog song could catch more.
Yes there is technically "assumption" there, but it is a highly educated one based on the situation presented.
It's nice to see Swag make an appearance
Not to mention that Naruto has actually gotten into a fight with Tsunade and knows full well how strong she is, so even without the pre-cognition from Sage Mode he would still be very wary of being hit by her even once.
Hear me out tho shes far smarter then he is combat and generally and knows not to underestimate him. on top of that she knows how sage mode works to an extent and there's more win Conditions for her then there are for him
@@ethanwaldervanzandt3516 trash take
@@ethanwaldervanzandt3516she gets blitz by base naruto using rassenshurken. Sage mode would just rip her arms off, same for jiriaya if he’s in sage mode she’s not touching him
@@therealbnasty3719tsunade hh speedblitz jiraiya bfr
@@narancia2815 he was too distracted by 106
I understand there would probably be scheduling issues, but if six, swag, and Seth did all their naruto discussion videos together that would make my year (this comment aged poorly)
Man your videos are the best when driving
Swag colab, let’s goooooo!
So Naruto did better against Pain because of the intel Jiriya gathered during their fight..
His Sage mode had the benefit of having 2 extra heads on his shoulders. They provided intel and supplementary abilities like water jets and sniffing out invisible enemies.
Jiriya also instantly countered Konan with oil and could reverse summon dimensions to trap enemies, multiple times in a single encounter.
He was a monster and only died after letting his guard down and choosing to go back after losing his arm to get even more intel.
cope
@@Mr2258502 Denial
I agree that he isn't multiple tiers below SM Naruto like this guys overexageratte except the war arc one but still weaker than SM Naruto no matter which one
@@DS-dw3pz Maybe, I’d have to go back and look at all their feats
Jiraya has a bunch more versatile jutsu and more sage endurance than naruto, i think it would be a toss up even though jiraya has notably less ap
just a pet peeve but im tired of people saying naruto killed the asura path with a punch, mans clearly used a rasengan and people been misinterpreting it for years. good vid otherwise
7:25
Saw the title and thumbnail, interesting enough to snag my attention. Then I recognized that laugh and saw Swag’s icon pop up, too?! Immediate like, bro. W video, blessing us with 42 minutes of this.
Ft. Swag you already know it’s a banger.
Naruto had full intel in the fight, Jiraya had no intel. Jiraya killed 3 paths with no knowledge on their home turf. Naruto lost with 1 path out of commission and after Pain just fought an entire battle against an entire village.
Your point?
all of the pain paths got fully healed, besides jiraya killed 3 of the weakest paths, naruto killed 5 fighting against all of them at once, losing only to the strongest of them
@@mateusdossantos1998 They were physically healed but Nagato has only a limited amount of stamina and chakra. The author illustrated this by having all the Pains collapsing just prior to fighting Naruto and him not able to use Tendo for the first few minutes.
Pain also was trying to capture not kill, the two fights aren’t even
The two fights are incomparable.
He actually killed 3+1. The last one got even captured inside a frog and brought back to the Leaf for investigation.
If Jiraya wanted, he could have escaped and survived with one arm missing.
@@susmir3845 I mean those are facts …
I'm glad Swagkage brought up how strong Tsunade was in the War Arc. In Six's previous Itachi vs The Sannin video, I had a long debate about how Tsunade was the key to beating Itachi's Susano
can she speed blitz totsuka blade....?
@@Flootyy you'd have to see my comment thread from the previous video but essentially I said Itachi more than likely wins. I was playing devil's advocate and looking for scenarios where the Sannin could beat Itachi. Basically Orochimaru and Jiraiya would have to distract Itachi so Tsunade could slip past the Mirror and hit Itachi from the back. If they could manage to pull it off Tsunade easily kills Itachi but it relies so much on the Sannin working flawlessly to avoid Itachi's genjutsu and Susano
She’s not though her strength comes from chakra the yata mirror will still block her shit and then she’s getting sealed almost immediately if not put in genjutsu. People seem to forget Itachi was a specialist in genjutsu before the match starts he would get them all in genjutsu and have them sealed because actually trying to fight them as a team would be crazy.
@@KareemReacts I'm aware, that's why I said she'd have to get past the Yata mirror. As far as the genjutsu, it was well established if someone is able to disturb your chakra with theirs, they can help you out of genjutsu. Problem is Itachi's MS abilities, speed, and hyper intelligence. Sannin only really have teamwork on thier side and would have to work flawlessly to get past Itachi's MS abilities. Itachi wins 9/10 but IF Jiraiya and Orochimaru can hold off and distract Itachi enough for Tsunade to slip past the mirror, she has been shown to easily punch through Susano and Itachi can not take that punch.
@@Jaccard4 Agreed he can’t take that punch.
Bro this video is actually an interesting concept
Need more videos like this six. Longer if possible
Man, why everyone sh*t on Jiraiya? If Jiraiya would have survived the Pain fight he would have benefited from the massive power increase everyone received during the war arc. So a hypothetical "war arc" Jiraiya could have been a beast. Perhaps he would have trained with Naruto and finally mastered Sage Mode. Good video but it would have been interesting to include the hypothetical War arc Jiraiya.
For everyone in the comments arguing in the comments about which of the Sannin is the strongest, I think it was stated somewhere that the power dynamics between the three of them are like Rock Paper Scissors. I think it is based on the Japanese version which is something like Toad Snake Slug so the matches between the three of them would go like this:
Orochimaru(Snake)>Jiraiya(Toad)
Jiraiya(Toad)>Tsunade(Slug)
Tsunade(Slug)>Orochimaru(Snake)
Even if one of them is stronger than the others they should still at least all be relative. So no, Jiraiya does not stomp Orochimaru even if you think he is stronger.
This is actually a interesting thing and nobody comments about it
But the only thing wrong with this comparison is that orochimaru(snake)>jiriaya(toad)-tusade(slug)
Nvr have I thought Jiraiya is stronger than Orochimaru...war arc Orochimaru stomps Jiraiya...
@DS thats largely because everyone gets a buff for war arc. im sure jiraiya wouldve had something too if he didnt lose to pain beforehand
40 mins of prime content :o came through clutch w this one six
I Bet this video is 10/10
Always great to hear you guys together. Sage Naruto Is on of my favorite versions. Hope Sage mode makes a good comeback on Boruto.
Sage mode Naruto was gonna come back but borushiki and code teaming up ruined it
I really hate when they say that Naruto blows up the asura path with one punch, you can very clearly see he uses a rasengan. Granted it doesn't make a significant difference in terms of power scaling I just really wish they could get that right lol
This content is like just food for thought but I fw it
I think Orochimaru is easily the strongest of the three based on Hiruzen and his take on Oros strength though
Hiruzen is weak
@@lealta1481 that is an absolutely retarded take thank you
Well ye he is very old by the time he died but I bet he was rlly strong in his prime
@@Doceli-dg3cn I mean I feel like people forget that even in his old age he was considered the strongest of the five Kage and even the Edo nerf Hiruzen was pretty damn ridiculous.
@DerricsRevenge also I believe Monkey king enma is considered the strongest summon in naruto (not including 6 path summons)
I don't agree with your arguments on this vid. Jiriya went in completely blind, didn't know the numbers of the enemy, and thought the fight was over and thus was surprised by the Asura path. Which is the only thing in Naruto Shippuden to have like futuristic weaponry. Like having a cut off hand is a huge downer.
Hey Six I thought Tsunade got an amp from Dan after he was released from edo he went to see her. In the anime it shows him kissing her seal. I always thought that like Minato used his chakra to replenish the seal on the nine tails turing Pain fight, that Dan replenished her seal with his chakra. I’m not sure if it’s in manga too or not but I know for a fact in anime Dan does this before she activates her seal and starts attacking Madara.
Bro thank god Swag is alive! Do sage naruto vs Danzo!!!!!!
Good job six you swag and seth are my favorites TH-cams 😍 when comes to factual naruto content 👌 this a 5 star 🌟 video 📹 and I don't really give out five stars a lot so really good job to both and swag
I just wanted to point something out about the 2 nerf fighters statement for Orochimaru and jiraiya. They are under 2 different type of nerfs imagine 2 master class fighters 1 has broken arms but can still use there legs meanwhile the other 1 is drunk high under all type of drugs and can barely stand to throw a punch. 1 of these nerfs are much more severe than the other atleast the broken arm guy can still fight with the legs the other guy can’t even stand properly to throw a punch
I don't necessarily disagree with the ranking in power level / threat level / combat potency that puts imperfect sage Jiraiya below the rest of the Sanin, and especially below Sage Nartuo, but the one thing about Jiraiya that I think is getting downplayed in this respective battle, is that because of his ability to sync with Ma & Pa he has infinite imperfect sage mode, whereas Naruto when he runs out has to reverse summon a clone back to himself to re-fill his sage chakra, and in that window when fighting pain, there is a window of vulnerability where he would be weaker than the rest of the Sanin.
Based on the fact that we're granting Naruto the re-fill clones at all seems to imply the thought would be it wouldn't be possible to defeat the sanin, especially strength of a hundred seal Tsunade in one go, so I think if Naruto doesn't do some serious work in his first Sage Mode meter and force Tsunade into a healing role to recover the massive damage to her team to buy time for the reverse summoning, I can't imagine a universe where Naruto is able to get back into Sage Mode without being killed outright by any of the Sanin that connect.
Can you help me understand why he's faster and more durable with some in-universe context?
@@TheJhed3 He can't cuz that's CAP. They talking out their ass in these comments lmao
@Darren Francis Tsunade is relative to the Raikage who is close to kcm 1 Naruto. With simple power scaling she should be a little faster and more durable since she can get cut in half and Naruto can’t.
🥚cellent topic. Haven’t even watched yet. Already excited. Naughty bells are on 😈
When you were discussing tsinade i think you forgot it's a shonen manga and characters can get random buffs to keep up with whatever threat
This is a random inconsequential thing to even bring up, but it's not that ma and pa were more willing to use frog song for Naruto because they liked him more or something, it's more likely that they were more willing to use it because they were facing a Pain that had killed Jiraya.
Base Orochimaru at Sage Jiraiya level is a crazy take IMO. They're all relative in their base forms. And each one has a transformation: Tsunade -> 100 Healings; Jiraiya -> Sage Mode; Orochimaru -> 8 Headed Serpent. They're all once again relative in their transformed states.
I'm not saying they're all exactly equal. But they're like Naruto and Sasuke or Kakashi and Guy in the sense that they remain relative to each other even if one is slightly stronger at different points. Each 1v1 is a HIGH diff fight.
Yeah they really downplayed jiraiya. Also saying orochimaru in the war is equal to sage kabuto is wack
Haven't watched the full video (yet) but I seriously thought this was a 1v1 gauntlet style not him vs ALL 3 at once.
Yeah to go on about your point, numerous times in part 1 it's practically stated they're equals. Each have a "beyond Sannin" transformation/mode/level however you want to say it. If we're being technical, Orochimaru has 2 cause he's only equal to Hiruzen given the usage of edo tensei but regardless.
To lend more credence, the databook we know says the Hydra surpasses Orochimaru himself, Jiraiya when activating sage mode says he's gone from Sannin to Toad Sage and Tsunade's 100 Healings is the pinnacle of her byakugou seal ninjutsu (& of medical ninjutsu) as it takes her Creation Rebirth to another level combined with the Strength of 100 Seal's physical & overall massive chakra boost that was stored inside the seal.
While Pain Arc Sage Naruto is stronger than the 3, there's little to suggest he's even capable of defeating all 3 at once even in their base states. There's even less to suggest he's beating all 3 in their leveled up states where they maybe a tier below this Naruto & Kage Summit Sasuke (pre-Kakashi fight). Honestly, KCM or Early War Arc Sage Naruto may be able to take them on in 1v3 but for sure Initial KCM2 or Mastered KCM can.
He couldn’t even damage 4 tails naruto, he was cut in half by it whereas Jiraiya wasn’t. That is not to say base jiraiya is stronger, but they should somewhat be relative
@Darren Francis 4 tailed Naruto almost killed Jiraiya but he would've killed orochimaru if he didn't have regeneration, he literally cut him in half. Jiraiya was also holding back more than orochimaru considering orochimaru was trying to kill him.
@Darren Francis True but Orochimaru couldn't even damage 4 tails Naruto and mainly survived because of regen so kinda contentious to place him above Jiraiya for that.
Was just listening to the audio and got so confused at 14:28 lol, but when i actually checked the video it had me dyin
Great video man, request for Kakashi VS Orochimaru, which tbh I don't know why you haven't done yet
They did it actually. It's in the video Swagkage vs Six | Naruto debates
@@huzopnet340 oh now that you mention it, I remember
42 mins of shitting on jiraya. Kind of unfair arguement
Nah, it's just you being a Jiraya fanboy.
Enjoyed the video. Sad to hear that one of my favorite characters (Jiraiya) just didn't get enough feats in the series. Smh
If it makes you feel better, they were downplaying the hell out of Jiraiya. They didn't mention that Jiraiya can summon swamps big enough to submerge giant summons, or the rest of his hax
@@takatotakasui8307 Dude every Jiraiya ability is not hax nonsense, he's one of the most powerful ninja to have lived LMAO. C'mon y'all
@@SweaterSwagg Not sure what point you're trying to make, but Jiraiya actually does use a lot of hax abilities that Naruto never learns. He uses more varied summonings, jutsu that traps opponents inside frogs, he has many espionage techniques that could be used to escape, and uses one of the most powerful genjutsu in the series
@@takatotakasui8307 Genjutsu isn't even his specialty btw. I don't think enough people realize what this means. This man literally has one of the most powerful genjutsu traps in his arsenal and genjutsu isn't his field of expertise. There's no telling what other crazy ninjutsu abilities he has at his disposal. Remember, the Preta path has the unique ability to absorb ninjutsu which probably meant that most of Jiraiya's arsenal was useless. Sage mode or otherwise. Despite that handicap, he was still able to use a strong genjutsu to take down three Pain bodies in one fell swoop and then got taken down only because he was taken off guard and had his arm ripped off (no more handsigns for complex techniques) and at the end of it all he was STILL in a position to get away and live to fight another day but he decided against it solely in order to find out Pain's identity for the sake of everyone else.
Jiraiya is an absolute BEAST of a fighter and it sucks that people diss on the man just because he fought his one battle against the six paths of hax.
It's cool how Kakashi said, after fighting one path of pain, that it was just insane that Juriah took on all six at the same time.
Bro I asked for sage naruto vs orochimaru like 3 years ago and it’s finally time to see my wish come true.
15:36 isn't the 100 healing seal and miotitic chakra built up over time? Isn't her max chakra output probably less than pain arc possibly? Hard to qualify but I guess we would have to go off of her healing the whole village during the pain arc. She is related to Hashirama though so she probably has more chakra anyway though
Tsunade in like a few weeks recovered enough in the war arc to use hundred healings throughout it with even being able to power up onoki cube to the point it was as big as the mountain
@@gameuniverse5973 I was just suggesting that we don't know how strong she is before the war arc and in between her nerfed part one showing, and that her output offensively is probably only equal to the total strength of the leave village at the time since she was healing people.
Pretty based video, I think Orochimaru V.S Tsunade would be a really interesting fight to have seen in the manga (I'm talking War Arc)
War arc orochimaru claps
@@orochimarupr981Boruto Orochimaru is not necessarily equivalent to War Arc
Ngl I see the preta path absorbing the massive rasengan in the first panel, not catching it. The sound effect is in fact the “zwo….” sound effect, and I see a little bit of the rasengan being sucked into him.
They show earlier in one of the panels of the Preta Path putting their face against the Odama Rasengan and catching it. If I find the time stamp I will send another reply
8:01
@@TheEternalFlame57 oh I missed that one, it doesn’t really make sense given context of panels after it but maybe if I went back and read the chapter that feat would fit better
@@TheEternalFlame57 the crazy part is that konohamaru's rasengan is stronger by this metric
@@Sweetlesishere didn't konohamaru attack the naraka path instead of the preta?
Definitely a fun idea
37:10 I can see orochimaru using his 3 gate summons and just blocking a massive rasenshuriken
💯 it appears to explode nearly on contact. His rasen shuriken doesn’t have the same destructive power as 4-tails Naruto.
Not only that Pain had no issues dodging it even weakened so Orochinaru should be able to do the same.
While I agree that jiraiya is weaker than Naruto, we can’t act like both of their fights with pain were the same. The amount of help Naruto had was insane: every frog summon, hinata, the 9 tails, minato, and not to mention that pain already fought the entire village.
Dawg EXACTLY, can't believe how they hoe'd Jiraiya lmao! Plus Pain had the element of surprise, Konan, and home court advantage 🤦
@@SweaterSwagg tell Jiraya to react to 4tails Kurama 😂…my mans Pain was fast enough react to 6 tails Kurama
@@Rck-vert Obviously base jjraiya is slower than sage Naruto so idk why you brought that up. My only point for this post was that their fights against pain were not the same . Naruto had way more help so of course he did better.
14:17 This is a certified swagkage madara moment
I wish he still wore that sage robe it's simple but effective
During the akatsuki suppression mission and it’s more blatant during Naruto vs pain especially when pa compare Naruto to his predecessors is that Naruto is shown standing in between jiryha and minato and that after pain arc Naruto is never really compared to jiryha as a milestone that Naruto has to surpass the same way he is with minato in regards to battle power as a shinobi it’s more like really wish you were still here so I didn’t have to end the cycle of hatred on my own
It would be using someone else’s idea but I saw something where you switch Naruto and sasukes fights. Y’all should do that since like who cares if someone thought of the idea, you’d bring something different to it
I believe it was ThunderGods and Lost Horizons 👌🏾
@@jalencunningham2012 yeah so just give them a quick shout out and do a vid lol
@@asc8048 Shippuden Naruto beats almost dead orochimaru,rasenshuriken Naruto loses to Deidara, rasenshuriken Naruto loses to itachi,sage mode Naruto loses to killer bee and dies in the five Kage summit,kcm one Naruto probably beats Kabuto with Itachi help
@@gameuniverse5973 rasenshuriken naruto beats deidarra especially if he runs wild with the 9 tails
Rasenshuriken naruto does lose to itachi
Sage mode naruto beats killer bee high - extreme difficulty
Kcm naruto beats kabuto with minor help from itachi
Hey six, got a question for you. Would hundred healings potentially negate the drawbacks of the 8th gate release? And if so how much more powerful would this make a hypothetical might guy? Maybe would change some matchups for him
For that fight if he had constant regen I think it would allow him to keep it up for much longer than before but I don’t think he’d be able to survive using it regardless. You can still be killed with 100 healings but considering he almost killed Madara (according to Madara himself) adding another amp might’ve been enough to end it plus he has more time and it would heal his broken limps from the drawbacks so yeah he may win but I don’t see him surviving the technique
i meannnnn, it all boils down to
who is faster?
8th gates body disintegration
or
100 healings regenerations
if 100 healing can keep up, well shit Gai's gonna be unstoppable
The biggest weakness of the 8th gate is the short duration and the fact that it kills you. Hundred healings most likely wouldn't stop you from dying but it would help with the stress the 8th gate puts on your body during combat potentially increasing your capability for strength and speed, in addition you would be able to use the technique significantly longer. Just a thought and I wanted to see what my boy had to say about it affecting matchups involving guy.
Ion think it negates it for the fact it’s also an amp, Not only is the 8th gate a MASSIVE amp plus an amp that got Sakura to KCM level so the regen would have to regenerate the 100 healings amp AND the 8th gate amp at the same time this burning out the chakra
It probably gives you more time but you would eventually die but it would further amp your stats
6:30 The only thing I've ever seen for it is him soloing them out in the great Toad stomach individually and Frog singing each of them for the killing blow
you should do a vid where you guys find out the weakest naruto character that can solo Earth. like all of the military and weapons that we have lol
Hebi Sasuke i don't see any part one chars taking a nuke except for like Minato,itachi,and kisame maybe guy if he can use the eight gate
Do you think it's possible that Tsunade could have gotten stronger after rebuilding her byakugou seal post five kage summit?
The boruto manga says the byakugou seals chakra bit by bit "Everyday" when Sakura explained it to Sarada - its not a set limit - Also Tsunade punched the real madara after he regen'd through edo tensei he switched to a wood clone to avoid being sealed.
ok but if jiraiya went to fight pain w the same prep time naruto had?? like he walked in blind & clueless and had to figure out that they all have shared vision & each one can use a different jutsu… all while keeping up w pain. naruto not only knew how their vision/chakra rods worked, but he had katsuyu in his pocket literally saying “ninjutsu doesn’t work on this one” lmao. if jiraiya has that cheat code on i kinda feel like he does as well as naruto against pain idk
I think that the three times stronger argument for the Sanin is part of the amp that we saw for Tsunade during the war arc (being part of a team fighting for a bigger cause), that would put Orochimaru and Jiraiya closer to war arc Tsunade (?)
Utataka (anime pain fight)vs Jiraiya (pain fight)both did decent against pain with no info but who did better enough to win in a fight
At 7:50 the only thing that I'd like to mention about some things that I believe is unfair is it's flat out stated the paths are stronger in the hidden rain. I don't think it changes the argument much but I do think it's relevant to say that jiriya wasn't just losing to the same strength paths Naruto fought.
Deva path jumped from being slightly above SM Naruto by himself to fighting 4TC Naruto
@Darren Francis It was flat out stated they were stronger in the rain village than in the leaf
Read it bro i literally said naruto wins lol
@Darren Francis That just means they can’t use Chibaku Tensai… Which they didn’t need to beat Naruto to begin with.
Well one thing you could consider if you wanted to is the Boruto anime cannon, which is technically canon to the manga. In there, there was an arc with Boruto and Sasuke where they meet up with young Naruto training with Jiraiya and they had to fight against an Otsutsuki. Even though Jiraiya got recked he still landed some good hits. Another thing you could consider is how much the scientific ninja tools amped up the clone jiraiya (kashin koji)
@ATTTICUS no, it's not.
@@NimbusTM Yes it is, the anime is canon. This is well known information
@ATTTICUS It is canon. The other guy is misinformed. The anime is all canon, and purposefully builds/fills in the story for the manga. If you watch closely, some Amado hints are given in the anime before being revealed in the manga.
1:31 Now I wanna see The Sanin vs the Six Paths of Pain.
I feel Pain wins cause he scales above them individually and Pain has very good crowd control (Pain’s summons) so they don’t have the team work buff
@@TheEternalFlame57 pain might win but it's gonna be really difficult, as according to tsunade, orochimaru + jiraiya is already enough to fend off/retreat safely against pain
@@TheEternalFlame57 the sanin have enough summons to fight the animal path temporarily
Well... Jiraiya got folded, Orochimaru gets destroyed in that animation from the games that is cannon because Kishimoto was on it. And well Tsunade kinda lost to pain aswell no? Maybe it would be closer but they kinda got stomped on their own
They would do decent but lose probably
7:20 swag has multiple times said that this is a punch when it's clearly rasengan. I mean there's a difference isn't there?
Gotta bring out the crinkle paper for swag
Naruto also can sense people in sage mode so naruto would of known if he get surprised attack however jiraya couldn’t
Sage mode gives the user sensory skills. Pain was just faster than Jiraya sensory.
@@Rck-vert Isn't Naruto blitzing jiraiya then aswell?
@@reddolphin8663 yes
Jiraiya stated he is stronger than Tsunade- means he is stronger than Tsunade.
How can you argue with that?
Where has anyone stated in the manga that he is stronger than her? In your wet dreams? .
Pretty sure he never once says he's outright stronger than tsunade. Even if he did it would be contradicted by feats and statements such as jiraya saying tsunade almost killed him multiple times and tsunades feats against madara in the war arc.
@@crescentmoon4375 -He only said that she almost killed him ONE time and it wasn't a battle, he didn't even tried to defend himself, he just took the hit.
-I can easily argue that Jiraiya would do better in war arc than Tsunade did bc of his feats in databook which says his ninjutsu supprassed all other Kages/Nations, his better summons, and his frog song.
-He says he would kill her if she betrays the village, if you don't belive I can give you scan.
-Tsunade had problems fighting against part one Kabuto
- Poisoned Jiraiya at 30% of his power was relative to Tsunade at 100% during the fight against the Orochimaru.
-Also if you want to say that Tsunade scales to Madara in terms of speed, than Jiraiya scales to Urashiki in terms of speed.
And when consider Madara feats he had later, than it shows he was holding back his speed as well during their fight
+he can use the Dark Swamp at any moment- this jutsu temporarly worked on Otsutsuki's
22:27 Well one way to prove that is by using Jugo's statement that says Sasuke was nerfed and weaker from his fight with Itachi then Karin says that 5 Kate summit Sasuke fighting samurai is stronger than his curse mark level 2
I feel like the “secret” was the Naraka Paths rez ability
You guys are right about Sage Naruto being stronger than Sage Jaraiya. However, Naruto had a lot of prep time plus prior knowledge of Pains weakness
Sage Jiraiya whoops Naruto's ass LMAO. Y'all in here tweaking!
Edit: Spelling cuz i r intelligent
@@SweaterSwagg How? Sage Naruto is just simply superior to sage Jiraiya. Along with other things, it's blatantly said by Fukasaku
Again years after the Sasuke - Jiraya video, Uciha fanboy is underestimating Jiraya.
Information is important, fighting the unknown is much harder than fighting the enemy you have intel on. And one more thing. Nagato and the 6 paths of pain are on home court when they fight Jiraya alone.
Nagato and 6 paths are fighting the entire Konoha village in an offensive attack for quite some time now, before the moment when Naruto shows up.
It is not mentioned or analyzed or said much about Nagato using the paths as proxy and puppetiring them and how much stronger Nagato is in direct fight, even his edo tensei form. Assuming Nagato out of his comfy village and in some shitty tree house near Konoha is absolutely the same shows your lack of intricate knowledge on the matter.
Yo Six, try to do VS battles where it is techniques vs techniques. Put the fighters on even footing in power and speed, and let their intellect and jutsu decide the winner.
Tobirama vs sage Kabuto or Sasori and Minato vs kisame equal stats are the funnest in my option
@@gameuniverse5973
Shikamaru vs. Itachi with equal stats.
Neji vs. The 4th Raikage with equal stats
Hidan vs. Jiraiya with equal stats
There's so many possibilities with this. Lol
7:55 Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a silly point? I thought the Preta Path's whole thing was that it absorbs chakra? The invisible, extended force of Naruto's punch putting it out of commission and Jiraiya coming at it with a giant rasengan are two entirely different kinds of attacks. One is an extension of taijutsu that that specific Path of Pain has zero resistance to, and the other is ninjutsu, which that Path of Pain is quite literally designed to counter. Whether or not it got hit by the rasengan's force for a few split moments, the massive bulk of the attack was absorbed. And I mean... of course? The Preta Path absorbs ninjutsu and that's pretty much it. Of course it won't be able to deal with a raw, empowered punch like it could a giant, concentrated ball of chakra coming right at it. And what is the conclusion there, that a single punch from Sage Naruto is more destructive than the full force of Sage Jiraiya's giant rasengan? That's totally possible, but using this display to prove it seems really weak to me, personally.
I think orochimaru folds sage naruto. Simply using the edo tensei he used in part 1. We talking as if kishimoto had a smooth continuity and consistency as he wrote naruto but that's not the case. If the hiruzen vs orochimaru fight happened in shippuden, then we all know the scale of the battle might have been bigger than naruto's pain fight simply because orochimaru can summon hashirama. Even if he could use only 5 - 10% of his original power, that hashirama would fold sage Naruto. Not mentioning if that edo hashirama could use sage mode too. We all know kishimoto didn't think of sage mode back in early naruto that's why edo hashirama didn't use it. Now yes orochimaru's nerfed shippuden version probably gets folded by sage naruto. And I haven't even mentioned tobirama.
GUYS I have a question: Is there any way to calculate how big boost is a perfect sage mode?
(to base Naruto for example)
Sort of, we know that the worst version of the curse mark is 10x amp. And we know that curse mark is an attempt at using nature energy similar sage mode in order to say it’s >>10 amp. But that’s the best I’ve heard, and it’s very vague
@@kylesegal642 thx its at least something
@@SajSen02 He went from probably lifting like 200 at best to lifting stone statues that’s weighing around 10 tons probably way more and it give’s him a durability boost and a really good Pain tolerance that’s all i know so you can probably find out how much of a strength boost with what i said
Not a bad way to think about it
My only rational argument for the idea that it can be interpreted as sage jiraiya is stronger than all 6 pains, is that he is getting up there in years and we know old age is a big nerf. Maybe his stamina wasnt as good as it would be in his younger years and so from suprises and a long fight he was weakened significantly before fighting all 6 pains and thus appeared significantly weaker than them. Idk thats my only rational reasoning, but i cant even remember the fight that well at this point so admittedly it may be completely wrong
16:45 - I could maybe see an argument for a mental amp via the same amp that people like Kakashi (War Arc Kamui spam go brrrrrr) seem to get over the war arc, but I am not sure it applies. Previously I had just assumed that literally a good half of the main cast got some level of amp in the war arc (Chouji being Juubi level anyone?) , but now I am less certain. Like it feels wrong to me to place Tsunade above Sage Jiraiya, but I suppose in retrospect I am seriously overhyping Sage Jiraiya.