Christianity As Mystical Fact 2/12: Rudolf Steiner - Greek philosophers as harbingers of the Logos.

Jeff and I continue on our voyage of discovery into Rudolf Steiner's transformational book "Christianity As Mystical Fact: And the Mysteries of Antiquity". We look at the connection between Christ as the Logos and ancient Greek philosophers like Heraclitus, Pythagoras, Empedocles who were initiates of ancient mystery centers.
GA 8. rsarchive.org/Books/GA008/Eng...
During the fall and winter of 1901-02, Steiner gave a series of lectures called “Christianity as Mystical Fact” to members of the Theosophical Society. The lectures were rewritten and issued as a book later that year. They mark a watershed in the development of Western esotericism. Steiner wrote of the idea behind his book:
“The title Christianity as Mystical Fact was one I gave to this work eight years ago, when I gathered together the content of lectures given in 1902. It was meant to indicate the special approach adopted in the book. Its theme is not just the mystical side of Christianity in a historical presentation. It was meant to show, from the standpoint of a mystical awareness, how Christianity came into being.
“Behind this was the idea that spiritual happenings were factors in the emergence of Christianity, which could only be observed from such a point of view. It is for the book itself to demonstrate that, by ‘mystical,’ I do not in any way imply a vague intuition rather than strict scientific argument. In many circles, mysticism is understood as just that, and therefore it is distinguished from the concerns of all ‘genuine’ science.
“In this book, however, I use the term to mean a ‘presentation of spiritual reality’―a reality accessible only to a knowledge drawn from the sources of spiritual life itself. Anyone who denies the possibility of such knowledge in principle will find its contents hard to comprehend; any reader who accepts the idea that mysticism may coexist with the clarity of the natural sciences, may acknowledge that the mystical aspect of Christianity must be described mystically.”
#rudolfsteiner #greekphilosophy #heraclitus #logos

[@forbearancemp5283]

Profound observation around the hour mark Jeff. Such a fantastic discussion as always guys!

[@jeffbarney3584]

Thank you.

[@billg302]

I disagree with the notion that you can not have hot without cold. It's like saying you can not have a person without an anti person. Temperature's existence is only dependent on heat or the absence of heat. It's a linguistic nuance that we have a word for the absence of heat that we call cold.

[@TheExceptionalState]

When you go out and shiver and do you say "It is very absent of heat today" or do you say "It is cold". If you answered the former, then congratulations for you are being consistent in your belief. If you didn't then I suggest that the "linguistic nuance" is indeed hinting at a fact.

[@billg302]

I am not denying the fact that cold exists. Linguistically, we created a word to describe the absence of heat. Cold and hot are opposites, most definitely. I am not denying that.
I have difficulty understanding your analogy 15 minutes in where you said that hot could not exist without cold.
Cold is the absence of heat, but heat is not the absence of cold. Temperature is the vibration of molecules. The higher the vibration, the hotter the temperature appears to be. We can slow this vibration to near zero but never completely stop them from vibrating.

[@billg302]

Perhaps it is this vibration that Steiner/Heraclitus is referring to. As we continue to think and increase our vibration, we unlock the omnipotent potential that latently exists within us.

[@TheExceptionalState]

Sticking with your motion and non-motion picture of vibreating atoms Heraclitus' position appears to me to be that it would be equally correct to describe motion and stillness as the two extremes of a polarity. So that in a hot system stillness must be added to cool it and vice versa.
I think Steiner would also point out that we can talk about non-phyiscal heat. E.g. Have warm emotions or chilling sensations which is a soul experience that can be had without any theorteical knowledge about the speed of atoms. @@billg302

[@jameskaplin502]

And God spoke all these words: “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath. ~ Exodus 20: 1-4. You can tie the Hebrews with the Greeks to the fire because you shall not make idols of anything in the heavens or Air or Earth or Water but there is no mention of Fire and the God of the Israelites is of the fire nature which those who say that Yahweh was a lunar being which is just a reflection of the sun because the law had to be laid down before the arrival of the Christ or the Logos. You gentlemen do very good work and inspiring for all who can take up their cross into initiation. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. ~ Matthew 3:11

[@jeffbarney3584]

Beautiful. Thank you. And thank you for your ongoing significant involvement. This ties it all together for me.

[@TheExceptionalState]

Thanks for your kind words James
adding to the above ..... and the angel of the Lord and then the Lord manifested himself to Moses in the fire of the burning bush.
Exodus 3:1-6:
Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the far side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight-why the bush does not burn up.” When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!” And Moses said, “Here I am.” “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

[@jameskaplin502]

@@TheExceptionalState I have been taking in the Exodus series from Jordan Peterson and the panel is extraordinary but it would be exceptional if both you and Jeff were there to give an Anthroposophical insight to this sacred scripture. When they got to Exodus 20, I had that epiphany about the Fire being excluded and what it meant and then it was easily tied to your work and for me the synchronicities keep me playing the glass bead game. I know many people like to dismiss what the Catholic Church offers but in my catholic education I was exposed to sacred scriptures, philosophy, the doctors of the church and much of the ancient wisdom of the Greek philosophers which has laid down the foundation for me to take in the knowledge of Rudolf Steiner.

[@jeffbarney3584]

@@jameskaplin502 I'll bet @Kate77777 has support for you excellent exposure via the church

[@TheExceptionalState]

Hi James. For me the links between Moses and Elijah specifically in relation to fire are very interesting and even more so given that these were the 2 beings surrounding Christ during the Transfiguration.
To the extent that the Catholic church is interested in propagating truth and understanding I would not hesitate to consider myself to be Catholic. Equally so for the truths revealed through Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc etc@@jameskaplin502