I've added a turbo intercooler from a Subaru to the exhaust of my diesel heater. I chose this because it has metal ends. Most others have plastic ends and wouldn't survive the heat. With a small fan on the intercooler It extracts so much heat from the diesel exhaust that the outlet from the intercooler is barely warm. There's an amazing amount of condensation coming from inside the intercooler that the pipe leaving it needs to run downwards to drain this away.
I think this is a great idea. I have been running a diesel heater for 3 years and have experimented quite a bit. I also have an egr, but I'm not convinced it will work effectively longer than a couple of weeks at the most. The problem is egr's are designed to run at much higher temperatures of an engine. So I fear the cooler with soon get carbon build up, then it would choke up the exhaust port, then you're into a full stripdown and decoke. Good luck and I hope it works. Personally I've opted to run a mix of used cooking oil. Engine oil is a waste of time, its soon builds up petrified carbon deposits.
Hi MoreDteTV, UK Plumber here and without a doubt i would say that you would be better off as per your previous video using the exhaust gasses going directly through the radiator rather than transferring the heat to water. Unless you can provide a method perhaps let's say you get a Plate Heat Exchanger from a Combi Boiler, run the Exhaust Gasses through the Flow and Return paths. and ofcourse your Central Heating Water (Radiator Water) pumped through the Hot and Cold of the plate heat exchanger you could perhaps gain more efficiency getting a better heat transfer. And please for the love of god, i know its a low water content set up. Get a PRV or Expansion Vessel set up. or for the sake of being cheap, have it open vented. connect a 90 piece perhaps on the top of the radiator (usually where the air vent is) : I'd use a 1/2" - 15mm Bent Compression Elbow with a tall section of 15mm pipe above the appliance at perhaps 2m above the radiator to prevent the Pump firing the water out the radiator. And Finally. get the Radiator off the floor a couple of inches! they work off of convection and require cold air to come underneath the radiator, and the hot air rising up through the radiator creates a natural draught in a way. allowing it to emit more heat via Convection! Good Luck! Ingenius work! Fair Play!
@@Catrik I can see this being a fault too, with these rigs sort of being a budget way to boost efficiency i believe that exhausting directly into the rad will reap the highest amount of heat at the cost of longevity.
The water should the go into the 2nd heat exchanger on the exhaust discharge end for maximum heat transfer. The coldest water against the coolest exhaust gas temperature so that the highest temperature exhaust is against the highest temperature water. Much more efficient and capable of much higher total heat transfer. Counter flow designs is used for all teat transfer applications. Do the test again with the flow reversed.
I was just about to comment this, just makes me think of how i run my water cooled pc i run clean cool air into the second rad in the loop so that the heat polluted air is going out the first rad taking as much heat as possible before it gets fresh air.
Counter flow means the hottest exhaust hits the coldest water. You have it way backwards. Bigger differential quicker heat transfer. Hottest exhaust with hottest water less heat transfer than hottest exhaust with coldest water
Didn't you get that backwards? Higher temperature difference means higher energy transfer. But I do not think it makes any difference in this case, because the heat output is relatively low, the temperature difference anywhere in the loop is probably not that much. But regardless, that would be an interesting test.
Absolutely brilliant. Such a coincidence I finally fitted mine, for my living room two nights ago One ford galaxy egr fitted it to the exhaust of my outside diesel heater that heats my living room. I could not just passed the pipe straight through the wall because there was no available space for a radiator. I had to run the pipes 10 ft across the outside of the house then pass them through the house wall another 8 ft under touch the radiator to the wall 60 cm by 60 cm single rad . I used a 10 watt circulation pump from eBay. And I've used what's known as a dosing funnel that's why I've left attached to the radiator as it's header tank! First night was awful I could barely get the radiator warm that was mainly airlocks. I seem to solve the airlock by turning on the drain tap wow what source of hot water for outside use. The highest temperature I got was about 28 c. So today I got out my expanding foam gun on fire rated expanding foam an insulated all the external pipes successfully apart from the exhaust just burnt it off even though I put heat wrap over the exhaust already. To put you in the picture my living room is 17 1/2 ft by 10 ft. With a small kitchenette that I always leave the door open of. Well tonight I got the temperature up in the room to 22 degrees c. The outside temperature was 4 degrees c. So I'm delighted with this. I'm seeing your video tonight has inspired me because I was thinking these egrs are not big enough. So for my next project which is a radiator in the top landing connected to a all-in-one diesel heater
Hey Chris sounds like a cool setup you have and the temps you’re getting sound good when it’s that cold outside. I do need to play with the air locks in the next edition of the setup but I really believe it should work really well considering it’s literally wasted heat normally. Thanks for the comment bud 👍👍
Excellent idea with the EGR valves I have been thinking of something similar to help reduce the running costs of a hot-tub, Thanks for making this, looking forward to mk2.
Just subscribed to both channels, you could refit the EGR back together as you had it, but at the joint make a block to go in between with a drain cock on it to drain the condensation, alter the water pipes like you said, but incorporate an air drain valve. Great idea in the first place. 👍🙏
You really are a legend!! Fantastic idea! Could you mount the EGR cooler horizontally in your original setup? That would allow the condensation to run out still and make it back to the sweet setup you originally had
I was going to say the same as James about mounting the egr coolrs horizontally as in bolted together as per the original setup at the start of your video , with the exhaust outlet one being lower than the inlet one , also , the first commenter is correct , the colder water returning from the radiator must go into thd exhaust outlet end of the egr coolers , thermosyphon will aßist the circulation pump ( which should be on the cool outlet side of the radiator , ).... I've had the parts to do the same experiment for several years, but not had the time spare to actually do it , so thanks for publishing this , i now know i t will be worth doing , cheers ,
An alternative to a pressure relief valve would be an expansion tank, either open like old central heating systems or one from a car that is closed with a pressure cap. This would ensure the water system is always topped up.
Further care must be taken when judging the total amount of water in the radiator system, too little and you risk the water boiling. The more powerful the diesel heater the more water/bigger radiator is needed
small tip if you connect the radiator better it will work even better. the warm one at the front should be at the top left and the return at the bottom right. and what can also be beautiful and practical is to place everything on the radiator and keep the water pipe short so that you can simply hang the system on the wall, for example
I believe most modern radiators have a blockage in the centre of the bottom rail which forces the circulation from one bottom port across the top rail & out the other bottom port. I'm pretty sure old Victorian & early 20th Century ones were designed to run by thermosyphon (without a pump) so were connected top one side to bottom the other side.
@ I am an installation technician plumber and the way we connect radiators in the Netherlands is hot at the top and cold out at the bottom. That's why I thought it was strange that you put hot at the bottom and also cold at the bottom.The only way to know is to look in the radiator. In the Netherlands we use central heating boilers with pumps that pump the water around.
@@janreitsma1096 that's useful, thank you. If I get around to building a thermosyphon system I may well be buying radiators from the Netherlands rather than UK
I sawed off the combustion chamber, and relocated thermocouple. The combustion tube fits nicely in a car exhaust pipe, with an approximate 90 degree sweep to verticle. This pipe protruded into the combustion chamber of a Polaris hydronic boiler tank, heating approximately 37 gallons. At half throttle, 4 hours approximately to 140 degrees on initial run.
Cool project... another option would be to just use an air to air exchanger.. Run the exhaust from the diesel heater thru an appropriate sized radiator.. maybe a heater core or something like that.. and have a fan on that radiator. Might need a couple of them to extract all the heat.
one valid reason to keep the exhaust hot is to make the exhaust gases float up and away. i have a pool heating that pulls "too much" heat from my wood burners exhaust, and it leads to the exhaust gases lingering around close to the ground, which is especially annoying when there is no breeze blowing and i start the fire. im just standing in smoke for 10 minutes. 140°C is ofc warmer than needed, but probably hard to control without a complex system to extract the right amount of heat.
Hey! Love the vid, 1 thing I would suggest is the water should flow into the bottom of the egr coolers so that it flows up as it heats, and then flow into the top of the radiator so that it sinks down as it cools, this will also assist the pump as the water wants to flow up as it heats and down as it cools, this may also help the pump as the water will cool off in the rad and then flow through the pump, it will also ensure that it always has water to pull from the rad and will never get airlocked, also yes definitely should change the outlet/ inlet setup on the egrs to eliminate air bubbles and help flow, also may be a good idea to raise the radiator so it’s the highest point as it’s open and air can escape there, this could also help by allowing more air into the bottom of the radiator for convection airflow.
That is called thermo- syphon , and yes , you are quite correct ,. Many side vakve engined cars depended purely on this to keep their engines cool , which is why their radiadors were much taller than the engine ,
If you know anyone who can 3d print a top cowl for the radiator you can send the hot blown air down through the radiator fins and get all the combined heat blown out from underneath. If the rad is bolted to a wall so the bottom is about 2 feet from the floor, you'll get low level heat that'll radiate across the floor before rising straight up to the ceiling/roof.
Good idea with the egr's, but I would turn the pump around and pull from the radiator. Yes, I would cut and turn them other pipes to be inline like you said.
I’ve thought about doing something VERY similar to this, except running off of a small single cylinder air cooled engine that runs an automobile. The EGR cooler would be inline on the exhaust of the small single cylinder motor to heat up coolant for the cabin heater in the car.
Ah……Yeah mr cool 😎 guy Nathan 😊 Great video showing what can be done 👍🏻 Looking at the comments you’ve lots on great ideas that’ll keep you working on this project for a while until it’s fine tuned 😀 Happy Christmas 🎄 to you and all your family 🤩
i have a diesel heater in my shed it works spot on i did route the exhaust pipe in the water of my ultrasonic cleaner to heat the water quicker with it being 25 litres i takes it time getting to temp its loads faster with the exhaust going in and out of the water.
What I can’t see is whether the flows in the exhaust cooler are opposite to each other; it’s my understanding that the hot exhaust and cold water have to pass in opposite directions for optimal transfer. And since we’re scooping things from wreckers yards, look at BMWs- they have (or had) cyclonic separators that removed water vapour from breather lines to prevent engine oil dilution from condensation.
For your heating loop you can try waterless coolant. Bit of a fuss making sure there's no water in the system before putting the coolant in but it doesn't expand/ cause pressure like water and has better heat transfer properties, only by a few degrees but every little helps.
Nice 1 fella but before you cut and weld just turn the EGRs horizontal so the gas and water flow. I have a single EGR on my Crafter with a water pump as I don't like cold starts on a diesel. The heater blows hot air to clear the screen and exhaust gas to start warming the engine.
why didnt i do it earlier, thank you for the idea, im change my heater ASAP. At the moment, exhaust goes straight through radiator and yes, it is really hot on the heater side and basically cold on the exhaust side so yes, water is better i see, thanks again for the idea
It sure sticks in my craw too, all that lost heat. Have you ever thought of creating a preheating setup with regard to the air intake? I have a length of stainless steel chimney flue of the same diameter as the ducting (Ebay) and a long exhaust pipe. I intend to wrap the flue pipe with the exhaust (I think it will bend to the right diameter) and then feed air through the heated flue pipe into the heater. This should, in theory, heat the air prior to it entering the heater, thereby reclaiming some of the lost exhaust heat. It will not be anything like as efficient as your water setup, but it should improve matters. With my own diesel heater installation, the hot air has to travel some distance before entering the living room, so the hotter the air the better. I have all the bits, I just need to fit them now.
Pretty much as I suggested to do the setup like mine. I have an expansion vessel and a pressure gauge but see very little pressure increase running the twin EGR coolers and a double radiator. But plenty of heat recovered.
I am an insulation FAN , and i think that an insulation mat custom made for your sistem will make some difference, also a better desighn of the circulation of the glycol sistem "Thermal -Gravitational-Driven circuit" will give some redundancy (in case of the power outage) ,and finnaly some accumulation tank for the intermittency of the sistem usage. Great phisics applied case, something we sould find i our kids study cases in Scools.
I did the ninja radiator. Although good so far. I have bought a kia sedona 2.9 intercooler. Little square all aluminium intercooler about 20quid used on ebay. I think there would be no restriction at all with this with 45mm in and out. and also long term no carbon clog up inside the heater. Just need to make some adaptors to plumb it up.
If you put your heat exchanger back in your sleek design from the beginning of the video.... Then rotate the heat exchanger a quarter turn clockwise. Have the exhaust from the diesel heater enter the exchanger with a 90° elbow. That should also solve your condensation drainage problem, and also put you back in a better form factor.
Stainless EGR made by calsonic for tractor is on ebay, got one but still not sure how much coolant, what pump, expansion tank and a heater matrix with heater…so a lot of things to consider.
Improvements: You want to move the water pump into the COLDEST part of the cooling system. This ideally would be after the outlet of the radiator. Pumps dont like heat. Heat kills them. You also want to make sure water flow direction through the radiator forces coolant flow THROUGH the radiator to extract the most amount of heat. It appears that you are only looping the bottom tank of the radiator. This does very little to get coolant moving up top. In a STEAM radiator setup, this works. In a LIQUID radiator setup, this doesnt work. So flow direction should be egr cooler BOTTOM, egr cooler TOP (This pushes air put of the coolers because air floats and the top port is exit) Assuming radiator has vertical tubes you want to connect egr coopler top to Radiator TOP. Radiator BOTTOM (the radiator is your reservoir where you want gas to collect so flow is reversed) to water pump inlet, water pump outlet to egr cooler bottom. This orientation assures that the water pump isnt overheated, air collects only in top of the radiator, and there are no other obstructions. It also assures that the entire radiator has moving coolant flow for maximum output and efficiency. Removing the loops in the egr coolers by cutting the elbows off and attaching hose perpendicular to the cooler is ideal.
As you cool the exhaust it will become much more corrosive so choose materials very carefully & make sure that any condensed liquid will fully drain. If you can get the exhaust really cool, then CPVC becomes an option for the final run to the outdoor vent.
This is spot on mate. I've been thinking of this kind of set-up since i've installed my diesel heater. I do not like the idea of plugging the exhaust straight into the radiator; i think the EGR method is a much better way. The water pump flow rate will have a massive impact on how hot the water will get, as im sure you know, if it's going through the EGR too fast, it will not have enough time to heat-up. Of course the flow will need to be adjusted depending on the diesel heater kw output, EGR cooler size and total volume of water in the whole circuit. What's your pump flow rate? Are you using neat water, or some sort of heat transfer fluid (car coolant, radiator oil)? Again, that's a decent video! Glad there's still people like you about
Hey Graham a few people have mentioned this, luckily the egr coolers are stainless and I guess it’s literally being used in the same way as it would in a car so hopefully it doesn’t rust out to soon 👍
Would the egr coolers fit together flat faces roger with a ninety in to the top then the coolant outlets would face towards each other. Worth a try so no need to cut and weld. Love the channel.
In "small home" you could run room heat off the hot air and water heating off the exhaust, even in a small workshop it's much better to clean hands and things in warm water.
What I will do is to make an “leg” full of sand for the webasto from square metal pipe 100x100, maybe 120x120 and in interior I will put in the middle the egr. This will work perfectly. You will not have that much loss oh heating during the egr route. And also this will look more clean for haters eyes 👀
Mount the hot inlet in the top of the radiator and the return af the buttom. And mount the water pump at the return to expand the life of the water pump An you are on stop by the pipe work of the egr to lean the flow and reduce restrictions. Bonus would be to let the water run thru a floor heating or af buffertank the have a buffer of the heat. And great job. Think Webasto water heater would have a better efficiency and lover dc consumption. Se this comparison of dc using: Webasto: Fan in combustion chamber. Water pump Glowplug China heater Same as Webasto and additional fan to move air around. And Webasto is more silent
Only @3:27 in the video and had a thought, dangerous I know but, real shame to change the configuration of the EGR coolers as not only did they look cool, they were quite compact, so was thinking: A slightly longer exhaust pipe from the heater to the OG config of egr coolers but with them rotated 90° would probably solve the condensation build-up issues? The flow would still then be all downhill, still be compact (even more so to the whole heater footprint) with the added bonus of them still looking as cool as.. also a bit of exhaust wrap around the whole lot would make it look less cool, but improve efficiency maybe? Just throwing ideas out there. Thanks for making the vids on this mate
Infrared thermometers are not recommended for measuring shiny metal surfaces because the metal's low emissivity can lead to inaccurate readings - Paint a dark patch, preferably matt black, as a 'target' fir IR thermometer.
What are your thoughts on flipping the hoses around? The cool water return goes to warmest part of the exhaust first. Would the water heat up faster? Would gravity help flow rate through the egr restrictions? What if you return back to the "good looking setup" but turn it 90 degrees? The air flow should keep the condensation working downwards and out the exhaust. On a side note: I commonly hear remarks about the "front room" from the British. What's the story here? Is the front room supposed to be the nicest room for when guests enter or something?
If u put the heat exchangers in parallel off a manifold u would double the efficiency of the system with it going through both and will create a larger area at a higher temperature and try to eliminate any pipes from going up and down air will collect in those areas and create a air lock m8
Never seen such a small diesel heater, only 5kw (the 8kw ones are EXACTLY the same as the 5's even inside. As for this radiator setup, once you decide on a plumbing route, consider an adjustable heater output angle... obviously liquids take the longest to change temperature, but once it's warmed up, if you were to adjust or split the outgoing hot air from the heater...and blow it across the radiator...it would increase output the same way a heater core in a vehicle produces heat. So you still have output airflow, but you add that moving air across the hot radiator from the exhaust & now use the radiator as a heater core with a fan behind it.
Connect the return from the radiator to the lower (second) egr cooler and the flow to the radiator from the first one for better heat, the way you have it you will not get the best heat transfer from the exhaust.
So depending on how hot you can get the water. Run it through a Honda civic aluminum radiator with a fan blowing through the radiator. Second source of heat through wasted exhaust.
What I can’t see is whether the flows in the exhaust cooler are opposite to each other; it’s my understanding that the hot exhaust and cold water have to pass in opposite directions for optimal transfer. And since we’re scooping things from wreckers yards, look at BMWs- they have (or had) cyclonic separators that removed water vapour from breather lines to prevent engine oil dilution from condensation. I’d put one on the exhaust after the exhaust coolers
I wonder with a 8kw heater with a manifold/reservoir set up you could probably be able to run multiple rooms. I would probably put thermal wrap around the exhaust and I believe that changing the input/output to more suitable location for an easier convection current to flow.
8kW cheap chinese diesel fired air heaters don’t exist. Chinese have conned you. Here’s how to check for yourself. Diesel contains about 10.5kWh of energy; With inefficiencies, you would need to feed it with about 1 litre of diesel per hour. Check that against the item specificationd.🙂
There's an inherent limit to using a radiator, as it warms up the water you're using steals less and less heat from the exhaust until the rad reaches an equilibrium. If you rigged up a car heat exchanger and fan (may not be needed) it would keep the water closer to ambient temperature, but you would lose the benefit of a nice radiant heat sink.
Oh I forgot to say I added a circulation fan. It was a purpose shop made one. But attaches magnetically to the base of the radiator. With another magnetic temperature sensor but only switches on when he senses heat coming from the radiator that really boosted my tiny radiator in a big room I dare say anyone could make one from a PC fan
Hey bud that sounds good to I like the look of the log burner fans that work off heat, I don’t know if they would work on the cooler diesel heater setups but they do look good.
Thought about this a long time ago also, but what actually happens when you cool you exhaust like this (because you "heat exchange" it to the radiator basically)? I will turn into vapor and I do think that would not be a problem either if you could just use the gravity to empty it outside. Put the heater higher, and exhaust to the outside in a down slope. But if you don't have that down slope it will probably fill it with vapor/liquid.
What about using a car radiator instead of the household one? Then fans can be mounted and used to circulate hot air. Admittedly this would be better in a workshop setup
Nope. Water is a very good medium for cooling. It’s a water pump, not an oil pump. Flow rate through the heat exchanger will be reduced. Need any more reasons?
@@marcinpisok3753 I don’t take offence. I just challenge outright lies or mistakes. I don’t believe you know much about Physics or you would not suggest such an absurd change of fluid. You are completely wrong in your assertion. I don’t know your level of education, but it is most certainly not scientific based or is at a very low level. Further, does water burn? Hydrocarbons do. Please look up a few facts, before you make such silly claims.
Im intrigued, what id like to try if i go for this, is just how far you can send the hot water which effectively could warm two rooms at the same time? Maybe keep adding rads to heat 3 or four different places at once
Hey bud yes that thought is on my mind how far could you go with it, if the longer pipes where insulated then that would keep more heat in the system. It would need a bigger heater say 5-8kw and let’s say you wanted to run a few radiators I would then think about the water diesel heater mentioned in the video to that heats water up a lot faster but with no air blowing out.
Interesting idea. What other heat losses did you find from the exhaust system ? Saw an installation video that said the control wires needed to be on top when the exhaust and air intakes were side mounted. Any ideas as to why they might be saying that please ? Noted this setup is not that.
Thanks bud 👍 the cooler setup literally pulled all the heat from the exhaust it was cold on exit, I’ve not mounted a heater on its side yet so unsure why they would mention that about the cables. I don’t think it would make any difference 👍
A thermal camera would have been much better. Those IR meters are useless without proper knowledge of emissivity and proper setup. Anyway , good demonstration. Shove a thermometer on that radiator instead of "I'm using my face". Measure the water temperature coming out of the EGR (and going into). Another thermometer at the exhaust pipe end to measure the temperature of the exhaust gases. Collect the condensate -> how much ml per hour. Otherwise this is just a lot of talk... You welcome , looking forward to a video with more data.
Faaaaaaffffff 😂😂 just loop some metal pipe for the exhaust ! That will emit plenty of the exhaust heat energy ! No pumps ! No water ! No extra 12v power ! Just exhaust pipe ! 😂
All good in principle but don't think the tiny amount of heat gained is worth the extra hassle , a 5kw heater will keep a very large well insulated room warm.
Hey Gavin it is abit of faff for sure for just a small amount of heat, if say you where off grid and that was your only source of heat then I do think it’s worth the effort as once setup it would fun indefinitely. If you have mains and say a house with insulation then you’d probably not bother. On the other hand I like having contraptions like this about as it keeps my thoughts and will it work ideas at bay 👍
I think this is the very first application where 'EGR' is logical used😂😂😂
Great idea 👍
I've added a turbo intercooler from a Subaru to the exhaust of my diesel heater. I chose this because it has metal ends. Most others have plastic ends and wouldn't survive the heat. With a small fan on the intercooler It extracts so much heat from the diesel exhaust that the outlet from the intercooler is barely warm. There's an amazing amount of condensation coming from inside the intercooler that the pipe leaving it needs to run downwards to drain this away.
I think this is a great idea. I have been running a diesel heater for 3 years and have experimented quite a bit. I also have an egr, but I'm not convinced it will work effectively longer than a couple of weeks at the most.
The problem is egr's are designed to run at much higher temperatures of an engine. So I fear the cooler with soon get carbon build up, then it would choke up the exhaust port, then you're into a full stripdown and decoke.
Good luck and I hope it works.
Personally I've opted to run a mix of used cooking oil. Engine oil is a waste of time, its soon builds up petrified carbon deposits.
That's a damn good idea, I am thinking about getting a diesel heater for my garage and this would make it so much better.
Hi MoreDteTV, UK Plumber here and without a doubt i would say that you would be better off as per your previous video using the exhaust gasses going directly through the radiator rather than transferring the heat to water.
Unless you can provide a method perhaps let's say you get a Plate Heat Exchanger from a Combi Boiler, run the Exhaust Gasses through the Flow and Return paths. and ofcourse your Central Heating Water (Radiator Water) pumped through the Hot and Cold of the plate heat exchanger you could perhaps gain more efficiency getting a better heat transfer.
And please for the love of god, i know its a low water content set up. Get a PRV or Expansion Vessel set up. or for the sake of being cheap, have it open vented. connect a 90 piece perhaps on the top of the radiator (usually where the air vent is) : I'd use a 1/2" - 15mm Bent Compression Elbow with a tall section of 15mm pipe above the appliance at perhaps 2m above the radiator to prevent the Pump firing the water out the radiator.
And Finally. get the Radiator off the floor a couple of inches! they work off of convection and require cold air to come underneath the radiator, and the hot air rising up through the radiator creates a natural draught in a way. allowing it to emit more heat via Convection!
Good Luck! Ingenius work! Fair Play!
I would think that exhausting into the radiator is not good long term, as the moist air and condensation would corrode it from the inside.
@@Catrik I can see this being a fault too, with these rigs sort of being a budget way to boost efficiency i believe that exhausting directly into the rad will reap the highest amount of heat at the cost of longevity.
@@Catrik how long is long term? It should last more than a couple of years and most people lose interest in that time
@dantronics1682 Lose interest in what? Keeping their building warm? I don't know how long they would last in use like this.
The water should the go into the 2nd heat exchanger on the exhaust discharge end for maximum heat transfer. The coldest water against the coolest exhaust gas temperature so that the highest temperature exhaust is against the highest temperature water. Much more efficient and capable of much higher total heat transfer. Counter flow designs is used for all teat transfer applications. Do the test again with the flow reversed.
I was just about to comment this, just makes me think of how i run my water cooled pc i run clean cool air into the second rad in the loop so that the heat polluted air is going out the first rad taking as much heat as possible before it gets fresh air.
I wouldn't mind some teat transfer applications! 😉
Counter flow means the hottest exhaust hits the coldest water. You have it way backwards. Bigger differential quicker heat transfer. Hottest exhaust with hottest water less heat transfer than hottest exhaust with coldest water
Didn't you get that backwards? Higher temperature difference means higher energy transfer. But I do not think it makes any difference in this case, because the heat output is relatively low, the temperature difference anywhere in the loop is probably not that much. But regardless, that would be an interesting test.
Absolutely brilliant. Such a coincidence I finally fitted mine, for my living room two nights ago One ford galaxy egr fitted it to the exhaust of my outside diesel heater that heats my living room. I could not just passed the pipe straight through the wall because there was no available space for a radiator. I had to run the pipes 10 ft across the outside of the house then pass them through the house wall another 8 ft under touch the radiator to the wall 60 cm by 60 cm single rad . I used a 10 watt circulation pump from eBay. And I've used what's known as a dosing funnel that's why I've left attached to the radiator as it's header tank! First night was awful I could barely get the radiator warm that was mainly airlocks. I seem to solve the airlock by turning on the drain tap wow what source of hot water for outside use. The highest temperature I got was about 28 c. So today I got out my expanding foam gun on fire rated expanding foam an insulated all the external pipes successfully apart from the exhaust just burnt it off even though I put heat wrap over the exhaust already. To put you in the picture my living room is 17 1/2 ft by 10 ft. With a small kitchenette that I always leave the door open of. Well tonight I got the temperature up in the room to 22 degrees c. The outside temperature was 4 degrees c. So I'm delighted with this. I'm seeing your video tonight has inspired me because I was thinking these egrs are not big enough. So for my next project which is a radiator in the top landing connected to a all-in-one diesel heater
Hey Chris sounds like a cool setup you have and the temps you’re getting sound good when it’s that cold outside. I do need to play with the air locks in the next edition of the setup but I really believe it should work really well considering it’s literally wasted heat normally. Thanks for the comment bud 👍👍
Can't wait for the next one! i'm preety sure you will crack this mate, well done and well said!!! excellent.
Excellent idea with the EGR valves I have been thinking of something similar to help reduce the running costs of a hot-tub, Thanks for making this, looking forward to mk2.
Cracking job there Nathan. Love the ingenuity - top work.
Thanks Karl 🙏
Just subscribed to both channels, you could refit the EGR back together as you had it, but at the joint make a block to go in between with a drain cock on it to drain the condensation, alter the water pipes like you said, but incorporate an air drain valve. Great idea in the first place. 👍🙏
You really are a legend!! Fantastic idea! Could you mount the EGR cooler horizontally in your original setup? That would allow the condensation to run out still and make it back to the sweet setup you originally had
Hey James really appreciate that mate 👍 I like the idea of that I will definitely work on it a little more and make a part 2 on the setup thank you
I was going to say the same as James about mounting the egr coolrs horizontally as in bolted together as per the original setup at the start of your video , with the exhaust outlet one being lower than the inlet one , also , the first commenter is correct , the colder water returning from the radiator must go into thd exhaust outlet end of the egr coolers , thermosyphon will aßist the circulation pump ( which should be on the cool outlet side of the radiator , ).... I've had the parts to do the same experiment for several years, but not had the time spare to actually do it , so thanks for publishing this , i now know i t will be worth doing , cheers ,
An alternative to a pressure relief valve would be an expansion tank, either open like old central heating systems or one from a car that is closed with a pressure cap. This would ensure the water system is always topped up.
Further care must be taken when judging the total amount of water in the radiator system, too little and you risk the water boiling. The more powerful the diesel heater the more water/bigger radiator is needed
small tip if you connect the radiator better it will work even better. the warm one at the front should be at the top left and the return at the bottom right.
and what can also be beautiful and practical is to place everything on the radiator and keep the water pipe short so that you can simply hang the system on the wall, for example
I believe most modern radiators have a blockage in the centre of the bottom rail which forces the circulation from one bottom port across the top rail & out the other bottom port.
I'm pretty sure old Victorian & early 20th Century ones were designed to run by thermosyphon (without a pump) so were connected top one side to bottom the other side.
@ I am an installation technician plumber and the way we connect radiators in the Netherlands is hot at the top and cold out at the bottom. That's why I thought it was strange that you put hot at the bottom and also cold at the bottom.The only way to know is to look in the radiator. In the Netherlands we use central heating boilers with pumps that pump the water around.
@@janreitsma1096 that's useful, thank you. If I get around to building a thermosyphon system I may well be buying radiators from the Netherlands rather than UK
I sawed off the combustion chamber, and relocated thermocouple. The combustion tube fits nicely in a car exhaust pipe, with an approximate 90 degree sweep to verticle. This pipe protruded into the combustion chamber of a Polaris hydronic boiler tank, heating approximately 37 gallons. At half throttle, 4 hours approximately to 140 degrees on initial run.
So simple, yet so clever
Excellent. I have purchased a dirt cheap EGR cooler online to install on a air cooled petrol tractor I have (it has a enclosed cab).
I have used a 10kw Water heater with 2 egr coolers to heat my jacuzzi. From 7c to 38c in about 2 hours 😁 works great
Cool project... another option would be to just use an air to air exchanger.. Run the exhaust from the diesel heater thru an appropriate sized radiator.. maybe a heater core or something like that.. and have a fan on that radiator. Might need a couple of them to extract all the heat.
impressive - well done, LPG boat gas engineer
one valid reason to keep the exhaust hot is to make the exhaust gases float up and away. i have a pool heating that pulls "too much" heat from my wood burners exhaust, and it leads to the exhaust gases lingering around close to the ground, which is especially annoying when there is no breeze blowing and i start the fire. im just standing in smoke for 10 minutes. 140°C is ofc warmer than needed, but probably hard to control without a complex system to extract the right amount of heat.
So you could also get another rad and make it in to a muffler for the exhaust for more heat recovery.
Hey! Love the vid, 1 thing I would suggest is the water should flow into the bottom of the egr coolers so that it flows up as it heats, and then flow into the top of the radiator so that it sinks down as it cools, this will also assist the pump as the water wants to flow up as it heats and down as it cools, this may also help the pump as the water will cool off in the rad and then flow through the pump, it will also ensure that it always has water to pull from the rad and will never get airlocked, also yes definitely should change the outlet/ inlet setup on the egrs to eliminate air bubbles and help flow, also may be a good idea to raise the radiator so it’s the highest point as it’s open and air can escape there, this could also help by allowing more air into the bottom of the radiator for convection airflow.
That is called thermo- syphon , and yes , you are quite correct ,. Many side vakve engined cars depended purely on this to keep their engines cool , which is why their radiadors were much taller than the engine ,
If you know anyone who can 3d print a top cowl for the radiator you can send the hot blown air down through the radiator fins and get all the combined heat blown out from underneath.
If the rad is bolted to a wall so the bottom is about 2 feet from the floor, you'll get low level heat that'll radiate across the floor before rising straight up to the ceiling/roof.
Good idea with the egr's, but I would turn the pump around and pull from the radiator. Yes, I would cut and turn them other pipes to be inline like you said.
I’ve thought about doing something VERY similar to this, except running off of a small single cylinder air cooled engine that runs an automobile. The EGR cooler would be inline on the exhaust of the small single cylinder motor to heat up coolant for the cabin heater in the car.
Ah……Yeah mr cool 😎 guy Nathan 😊 Great video showing what can be done 👍🏻 Looking at the comments you’ve lots on great ideas that’ll keep you working on this project for a while until it’s fine tuned 😀 Happy Christmas 🎄 to you and all your family 🤩
i have a diesel heater in my shed it works spot on i did route the exhaust pipe in the water of my ultrasonic cleaner to heat the water quicker with it being 25 litres i takes it time getting to temp its loads faster with the exhaust going in and out of the water.
Hey Barry nice setup always good when an idea actually works 👍 spot on
What I can’t see is whether the flows in the exhaust cooler are opposite to each other; it’s my understanding that the hot exhaust and cold water have to pass in opposite directions for optimal transfer.
And since we’re scooping things from wreckers yards, look at BMWs- they have (or had) cyclonic separators that removed water vapour from breather lines to prevent engine oil dilution from condensation.
For your heating loop you can try waterless coolant. Bit of a fuss making sure there's no water in the system before putting the coolant in but it doesn't expand/ cause pressure like water and has better heat transfer properties, only by a few degrees but every little helps.
Nice 1 fella but before you cut and weld just turn the EGRs horizontal so the gas and water flow. I have a single EGR on my Crafter with a water pump as I don't like cold starts on a diesel. The heater blows hot air to clear the screen and exhaust gas to start warming the engine.
You could fit a condensation drain on the exhaust and an expansion vessel on the water circuit.
very good idear makes total sense Great video keep it up the good work
why didnt i do it earlier, thank you for the idea, im change my heater ASAP. At the moment, exhaust goes straight through radiator and yes, it is really hot on the heater side and basically cold on the exhaust side so yes, water is better i see, thanks again for the idea
It sure sticks in my craw too, all that lost heat.
Have you ever thought of creating a preheating setup with regard to the air intake? I have a length of stainless steel chimney flue of the same diameter as the ducting (Ebay) and a long exhaust pipe. I intend to wrap the flue pipe with the exhaust (I think it will bend to the right diameter) and then feed air through the heated flue pipe into the heater. This should, in theory, heat the air prior to it entering the heater, thereby reclaiming some of the lost exhaust heat. It will not be anything like as efficient as your water setup, but it should improve matters. With my own diesel heater installation, the hot air has to travel some distance before entering the living room, so the hotter the air the better. I have all the bits, I just need to fit them now.
Awesome buddy glad you have it a bash! 😊
Another great informative video Nathan..Ah Yeah
Thanks simon 👍👍
You may need to vent it or provide pressure relief, a simple header tank from a car with pressure cap??
Pretty much as I suggested to do the setup like mine. I have an expansion vessel and a pressure gauge but see very little pressure increase running the twin EGR coolers and a double radiator. But plenty of heat recovered.
I am an insulation FAN , and i think that an insulation mat custom made for your sistem will make some difference, also a better desighn of the circulation of the glycol sistem "Thermal -Gravitational-Driven circuit" will give some redundancy (in case of the power outage) ,and finnaly some accumulation tank for the intermittency of the sistem usage.
Great phisics applied case, something we sould find i our kids study cases in Scools.
I did the ninja radiator. Although good so far. I have bought a kia sedona 2.9 intercooler. Little square all aluminium intercooler about 20quid used on ebay. I think there would be no restriction at all with this with 45mm in and out. and also long term no carbon clog up inside the heater. Just need to make some adaptors to plumb it up.
If you put your heat exchanger back in your sleek design from the beginning of the video.... Then rotate the heat exchanger a quarter turn clockwise.
Have the exhaust from the diesel heater enter the exchanger with a 90° elbow.
That should also solve your condensation drainage problem, and also put you back in a better form factor.
Stainless EGR made by calsonic for tractor is on ebay, got one but still not sure how much coolant, what pump, expansion tank and a heater matrix with heater…so a lot of things to consider.
Improvements:
You want to move the water pump into the COLDEST part of the cooling system. This ideally would be after the outlet of the radiator. Pumps dont like heat. Heat kills them.
You also want to make sure water flow direction through the radiator forces coolant flow THROUGH the radiator to extract the most amount of heat. It appears that you are only looping the bottom tank of the radiator. This does very little to get coolant moving up top. In a STEAM radiator setup, this works. In a LIQUID radiator setup, this doesnt work. So flow direction should be egr cooler BOTTOM, egr cooler TOP (This pushes air put of the coolers because air floats and the top port is exit) Assuming radiator has vertical tubes you want to connect egr coopler top to Radiator TOP. Radiator BOTTOM (the radiator is your reservoir where you want gas to collect so flow is reversed) to water pump inlet, water pump outlet to egr cooler bottom.
This orientation assures that the water pump isnt overheated, air collects only in top of the radiator, and there are no other obstructions. It also assures that the entire radiator has moving coolant flow for maximum output and efficiency.
Removing the loops in the egr coolers by cutting the elbows off and attaching hose perpendicular to the cooler is ideal.
As you cool the exhaust it will become much more corrosive so choose materials very carefully & make sure that any condensed liquid will fully drain. If you can get the exhaust really cool, then CPVC becomes an option for the final run to the outdoor vent.
This is spot on mate. I've been thinking of this kind of set-up since i've installed my diesel heater.
I do not like the idea of plugging the exhaust straight into the radiator; i think the EGR method is a much better way.
The water pump flow rate will have a massive impact on how hot the water will get, as im sure you know, if it's going through the EGR too fast, it will not have enough time to heat-up. Of course the flow will need to be adjusted depending on the diesel heater kw output, EGR cooler size and total volume of water in the whole circuit.
What's your pump flow rate?
Are you using neat water, or some sort of heat transfer fluid (car coolant, radiator oil)?
Again, that's a decent video! Glad there's still people like you about
Great job. Don’t forget that the condensation is corrosive
Hey Graham a few people have mentioned this, luckily the egr coolers are stainless and I guess it’s literally being used in the same way as it would in a car so hopefully it doesn’t rust out to soon 👍
Would the egr coolers fit together flat faces roger with a ninety in to the top then the coolant outlets would face towards each other. Worth a try so no need to cut and weld. Love the channel.
In "small home" you could run room heat off the hot air and water heating off the exhaust, even in a small workshop it's much better to clean hands and things in warm water.
What I will do is to make an “leg” full of sand for the webasto from square metal pipe 100x100, maybe 120x120 and in interior I will put in the middle the egr. This will work perfectly. You will not have that much loss oh heating during the egr route.
And also this will look more clean for haters eyes 👀
Mount the hot inlet in the top of the radiator and the return af the buttom.
And mount the water pump at the return to expand the life of the water pump
An you are on stop by the pipe work of the egr to lean the flow and reduce restrictions.
Bonus would be to let the water run thru a floor heating or af buffertank the have a buffer of the heat.
And great job.
Think Webasto water heater would have a better efficiency and lover dc consumption.
Se this comparison of dc using:
Webasto:
Fan in combustion chamber.
Water pump
Glowplug
China heater
Same as Webasto and additional fan to move air around.
And Webasto is more silent
Serving suggestion. Keep a good fall on the exhaust to drain off the condensation.
Only @3:27 in the video and had a thought, dangerous I know but, real shame to change the configuration of the EGR coolers as not only did they look cool, they were quite compact, so was thinking: A slightly longer exhaust pipe from the heater to the OG config of egr coolers but with them rotated 90° would probably solve the condensation build-up issues? The flow would still then be all downhill, still be compact (even more so to the whole heater footprint) with the added bonus of them still looking as cool as.. also a bit of exhaust wrap around the whole lot would make it look less cool, but improve efficiency maybe? Just throwing ideas out there. Thanks for making the vids on this mate
I too was thinking turning them 90° would solve the condensation trap problem.
Infrared thermometers are not recommended for measuring shiny metal surfaces because the metal's low emissivity can lead to inaccurate readings - Paint a dark patch, preferably matt black, as a 'target' fir IR thermometer.
Case and point, exhaust temp right after the EGR setup was lower than the water temperature by 15C, definitely because of the shiny surface.
What are your thoughts on flipping the hoses around? The cool water return goes to warmest part of the exhaust first. Would the water heat up faster? Would gravity help flow rate through the egr restrictions? What if you return back to the "good looking setup" but turn it 90 degrees? The air flow should keep the condensation working downwards and out the exhaust.
On a side note: I commonly hear remarks about the "front room" from the British. What's the story here? Is the front room supposed to be the nicest room for when guests enter or something?
Can you use oil instead of water? Thinking of a simple oil pump, oil-filled radiator for housing, oil going through the egr and back?
great solution , can we make a floorheating in the van or use for shower ? happy xmas everybody !
If u put the heat exchangers in parallel off a manifold u would double the efficiency of the system with it going through both and will create a larger area at a higher temperature and try to eliminate any pipes from going up and down air will collect in those areas and create a air lock m8
Never seen such a small diesel heater, only 5kw (the 8kw ones are EXACTLY the same as the 5's even inside. As for this radiator setup, once you decide on a plumbing route, consider an adjustable heater output angle... obviously liquids take the longest to change temperature, but once it's warmed up, if you were to adjust or split the outgoing hot air from the heater...and blow it across the radiator...it would increase output the same way a heater core in a vehicle produces heat. So you still have output airflow, but you add that moving air across the hot radiator from the exhaust & now use the radiator as a heater core with a fan behind it.
Connect the return from the radiator to the lower (second) egr cooler and the flow to the radiator from the first one for better heat, the way you have it you will not get the best heat transfer from the exhaust.
Excellent project :)
Thanks bud 👍
So depending on how hot you can get the water. Run it through a Honda civic aluminum radiator with a fan blowing through the radiator. Second source of heat through wasted exhaust.
..I bet its like the 'temperature at Motown Records,in there...
Three Degrees, Four Tops...Only kidding!...great vid again(hot!)...Ah Ye!...
Haha my workshop isn’t the easiest to warm 😂 I will find a solution to keep me warm in the winter 👍
y pipe the cooler inlet stacking adds to much resistence parallel makes it cool better with out limiting flow rate
Small expansion tank at the top ?
What I can’t see is whether the flows in the exhaust cooler are opposite to each other; it’s my understanding that the hot exhaust and cold water have to pass in opposite directions for optimal transfer.
And since we’re scooping things from wreckers yards, look at BMWs- they have (or had) cyclonic separators that removed water vapour from breather lines to prevent engine oil dilution from condensation. I’d put one on the exhaust after the exhaust coolers
I wonder with a 8kw heater with a manifold/reservoir set up you could probably be able to run multiple rooms. I would probably put thermal wrap around the exhaust and I believe that changing the input/output to more suitable location for an easier convection current to flow.
Like if you use a hot water heater as the reservoir and a manifold to spit the heat from the tank
8kW cheap chinese diesel fired air heaters don’t exist. Chinese have conned you.
Here’s how to check for yourself. Diesel contains about 10.5kWh of energy; With inefficiencies, you would need to feed it with about 1 litre of diesel per hour. Check that against the item specificationd.🙂
Why would there be condensation in tne EGR coolers? Are there condensatiom issues on production vehicles fitted with egr coolers?
Exhaust gases always have water in it that condensades as it cools down.
There's an inherent limit to using a radiator, as it warms up the water you're using steals less and less heat from the exhaust until the rad reaches an equilibrium. If you rigged up a car heat exchanger and fan (may not be needed) it would keep the water closer to ambient temperature, but you would lose the benefit of a nice radiant heat sink.
Oh I forgot to say I added a circulation fan. It was a purpose shop made one. But attaches magnetically to the base of the radiator. With another magnetic temperature sensor but only switches on when he senses heat coming from the radiator that really boosted my tiny radiator in a big room I dare say anyone could make one from a PC fan
Hey bud that sounds good to I like the look of the log burner fans that work off heat, I don’t know if they would work on the cooler diesel heater setups but they do look good.
Can you run the water the opposite direction and the pump will push water from the top downward through your EGR?
Water should pump out the bottom of the radiator into the bottom cooler air pushes to the top.
Ah ye! Genius mate nice one.
Thanks Jim always appreciated mate 👍
Thought about this a long time ago also, but what actually happens when you cool you exhaust like this (because you "heat exchange" it to the radiator basically)? I will turn into vapor and I do think that would not be a problem either if you could just use the gravity to empty it outside. Put the heater higher, and exhaust to the outside in a down slope. But if you don't have that down slope it will probably fill it with vapor/liquid.
thats a great idea man
Are you mixing water and exhaust or heating the water with the exhaust
What about using a car radiator instead of the household one? Then fans can be mounted and used to circulate hot air. Admittedly this would be better in a workshop setup
Maybe run the EGR coolers in parallel to improve the flow?
What about thermo syphon and get rid of the pump?
Fill radiator with oil rather than water.
It will take longer to heat up but it will do it's job well after you switch the heater off. Also much safer
Nope. Water is a very good medium for cooling. It’s a water pump, not an oil pump. Flow rate through the heat exchanger will be reduced. Need any more reasons?
Thank you.
Please don't get offended.
Different medium for different applications.
@@marcinpisok3753oil will heat up faster and lose heat faster, it’s got a lower heat capacity
@@oliver90ownerparaffin & transformer oil have similar viscosity to water & aren't electrically conductive so protect from cathodic/anodic corrosion.
@@marcinpisok3753 I don’t take offence. I just challenge outright lies or mistakes. I don’t believe you know much about Physics or you would not suggest such an absurd change of fluid. You are completely wrong in your assertion. I don’t know your level of education, but it is most certainly not scientific based or is at a very low level.
Further, does water burn? Hydrocarbons do. Please look up a few facts, before you make such silly claims.
Be keen to see how effective a stove top fan atop the radiator would distribute the heat.
Hey Raymond I’ve seen those stove fans and they interest me, do you know what sort of heat they need before they start spinning?
@@MoreDteTv A lot more than that from this test.🙂
Im intrigued, what id like to try if i go for this, is just how far you can send the hot water which effectively could warm two rooms at the same time? Maybe keep adding rads to heat 3 or four different places at once
Hey bud yes that thought is on my mind how far could you go with it, if the longer pipes where insulated then that would keep more heat in the system. It would need a bigger heater say 5-8kw and let’s say you wanted to run a few radiators I would then think about the water diesel heater mentioned in the video to that heats water up a lot faster but with no air blowing out.
@MoreDteTv I'll be subscribing to go through more of your videos definitely worth learning more on this set up
You *_must_* use a corrosion inhibitor such as antifreeze because you're using different metals so you'll get cathodic erosion.
13:13 Ah yes the _EGR Coola Heata Dubry Ferkin Twin Turbo Ten Thousand_ my favourite
Interesting idea. What other heat losses did you find from the exhaust system ?
Saw an installation video that said the control wires needed to be on top when the exhaust and air intakes were side mounted. Any ideas as to why they might be saying that please ? Noted this setup is not that.
Thanks bud 👍 the cooler setup literally pulled all the heat from the exhaust it was cold on exit, I’ve not mounted a heater on its side yet so unsure why they would mention that about the cables. I don’t think it would make any difference 👍
@MoreDteTv cheers, will be taking one apart next year to investigate.
I was always wondering why this isn't a thing. The exhaust temp is like 400f 😂.
good thinking
Put these egr-coolers horisontal, then they can be in their pretty compact assy
Ah yeh 👍
Thanks mate
Does your pump keep clicking constantly?
Yes the fuel pump ticks at different speeds depending how high you have it turned up, the later green top pumps are super quiet so can’t be heard 👍
@@MoreDteTv thank you, will look into these gree ones next year.
Are you talking about 5° or five Fahrenheit?
I’m in the uk so will always speak of degrees 👍
You could probably get away with just one heat exchanger?
Why not put the exhaust directly throught the radiator? Would simplify stuff a lot.
just take the u shaped egr cooler set up and set it on the side to make a c shaped cooler and just 90 into it.
A thermal camera would have been much better. Those IR meters are useless without proper knowledge of emissivity and proper setup. Anyway , good demonstration.
Shove a thermometer on that radiator instead of "I'm using my face". Measure the water temperature coming out of the EGR (and going into). Another thermometer at the exhaust pipe end to measure the temperature of the exhaust gases. Collect the condensate -> how much ml per hour. Otherwise this is just a lot of talk... You welcome , looking forward to a video with more data.
I think it was me that mentioned heating water and pupming it around a system.
Faaaaaaffffff 😂😂 just loop some metal pipe for the exhaust ! That will emit plenty of the exhaust heat energy ! No pumps ! No water ! No extra 12v power ! Just exhaust pipe ! 😂
Condensation and corrosion.
All good in principle but don't think the tiny amount of heat gained is worth the extra hassle , a 5kw heater will keep a very large well insulated room warm.
Hey Gavin it is abit of faff for sure for just a small amount of heat, if say you where off grid and that was your only source of heat then I do think it’s worth the effort as once setup it would fun indefinitely. If you have mains and say a house with insulation then you’d probably not bother. On the other hand I like having contraptions like this about as it keeps my thoughts and will it work ideas at bay 👍
What if the water boils and you start building steam pressure?
You have to fit a car radiator cap, or something, to the system for safety.
6:54 Oh, my! 😳