For real, also the fractions where a big part of the players identity, this is a game about war. 2 fractions in endless fight, this is not about inclusion and love.
I think that would cool, but it’ll divide dev resources. Like DF/TWW map quality is insane and having to make 2 different maps with different characters/quests lines with the same scope/ quality would be a frankly insane task.
Ye that's true but we do pay a monthly fee plus money for every expansion so it's not like we aren't paying enough for them to put some work into the game, plus the cash shop
Ye i personally preferred it when they hated each other back in og wow there was general hatred for the other faction it was like man united v arsenal, rangers v celtic now its all friendly and seems far removed from what wow once was
Once the threats escalated to the point where all of Azeroth or even the mortal plane itself were at stake, the faction war stopped making sense. I don’t mind minor skirmishes or political tension, but going back to how it was in 2004 would come off as pretty silly at this point.
@@TheLuminousLynx111 Yes. Stories evolve... or they die. The story had to move beyond where it was. We had about 26 years (from Warcraft 1 to the end of BFA) for that story. It was tedious. (IMHO)
@@grimwanderer certainly seems like a lot of people share your view and i guess after all someone has to either win the war or a peace needs to come it cant remain a constant war where it remains equal
In retail that's definitely the case now they couldn't go back, what do you think if they made classic plus would you prefer that style or to be separated
To me, it make sense that the hord and the alliance would eventually make peace. That goal was established by leaders on both sides ever since warcraft 3. And after decades of interactions with eac hothers, of course they would all start to adopt aspects of the other side. Keeping the war and factions set in stone would be rather boring honnestly.
@@TheLuminousLynx111 Peace has been made and broken time and time again to the point where it's almost become comical. It's the longest "will they won't they" in history and I think everyone is tired of it. Conflicts should happen yes, but it should no longer be limited to alliance vs horde.
Going through the comments it does seem like the majority are sick of the conflict now, I would be Interested to see which player base prefers which side of the argument, something tells me retail players would lean towards peace and classic players more towards carrying on the war between factions, but that's purely a guess
@TheLuminousLynx111 hahaha, no thats not the problem, but look at wow now and look at it 15 years ago, almost everything is "cute" and "fluffy" horde can join guildes with alliance... this all its not wow anymore... (for me!) There are no smelly nerdy dudes kn development anymore. Now there sit blue haired emilys who have never played or even made a game.
100% agree with you there, wtf is a vulpera doing in this game🙄 it's gone down a completely different trajectory from where it first started that's for sure, the old lore was brutal the orcs murdering the dranei on draenor to the new lore of anduin being sad 😔
@@TheLuminousLynx111 THANK YOU! i had the vulpera all the time in my head😂😂😂 its just a shame... i mean there was "cute stuff" in wow already, and thats absolute okay, but now the game is just a big fluffy inclusive rainbow blobb....
It's madness isn't it,even the posts they put on Facebook/instagram at times I look at them shake my head and type out why wow has gone so far away from what it was, but then I delete it because I think they don't care and I cba with responding to the idiots
I guess you need paladins and shaman on both factions for some balance reasons but they could have gone with the same route that Swtor did. You have the same classes on both sides with the same function of the skills but that is the only common thing they have. Classes are named different, looks different, the skills have different names and graphics etc.
Thing is do we need balance across the board, would it perhaps be better to have horde be better in some areas and alliance in others, but I definitely like your idea of different names for things if we are having balance
Balance has nothing to do with this, Blizz could never consistently make that happen. Remember just how objectively better the Horde racials were compared to Alliance in Vanilla? Or how outright better the Blood Elf Paladins were in TBC before they got changed? The Horde was objectively more powerful as a faction during early WoW, both PvP and PvE, but it had nothing to do with two classes being faction exclusive.
Was just discussing this with a friend who is also a long time WoW player. We think it needs to end but not in just a strait-laced ending fashion. Add a third faction. A blended faction. Each person on each side can start in this third faction, but additionally, every current character would have a choice/chance to join this third faction. However, if you join this blended faction, you cant go back. Youre exiled from all of your faction’s cities and reputations.
Would you have anything unique in this faction to be different to the other 2 factions, say like a class horde and alliance can't choose ? And where would their main city be? Cool idea I like it
Illidan and his followers should have been the 3rd big faction in BC, but instead they made them villains for no reason. WoW writing at its peak I'd say. 😅
@@JohnRengo-h4w i agree. The buddy i refer to in my above comment is also with you 100%. He’s wanted Naga as a playable race for years. Especially considering he was a hero in WC3. I am glad we ‘sorta’ got that redemption for him in Legion though.
@@TheLuminousLynx111 ill have to contemplate this. We hadnt got that far in our discussions but i love brainstorming ideas such as these. Another point to ask is - would/could racial bonuses change for the faction change?? No more human hearthstone silliness?? Id love it! Going off of my og comment, it would make sense to give the rep gain bonuses back to characters who join the 3rd faction considering the idea behind losing all rep gains if youd join the 3rd faction
Rather be able to play with my friends over keeping the factions unable to do PVE together. I do like the idea of faction specific classes and would not be upset if this came back.
I don't think one approach is necessarily better than the other. Warcraft III is pretty beloved but ROC ended with both factions working together, TFT had nothing to do with the factions, And the Rexxar campaign was about fighting racism. At the same time, the faction divide does bring a lot of unique flavour. It comes down a lot to execution and capturing the nuance of the story. Faction unity has been fumbled in the current era because the two factions sorta just become good friends overnight with little of the baggage of a literal genocide and world war only a few years prior. They should be doing more of what they did with Heartlands, where there are plenty of autonomous opposing forces to peace within the factions despite the official truce. Where are the Night Elves and Worgen clamouring for justice? What about the Garrosh/Sylvanas loyalists? What about the stolen territory during the Cataclysm and BFA? Stuff like that. It can even be woven into War Mode where players can support factionalist radical groups. In the end I think Blizzard chose the path of faction unity because they wanted world ending threats as the central plots of expansions (hard to weave in cohesive faction conflict when there's a literal apocalypse) and now they want to move closer to a fully undivided player base. If they had doubled down on faction divide I think they would have had to commit fully to the faction conflict narrative, otherwise I don't know how you can really meaningfully keep it interesting and fresh if it's just a backdrop. Great video!
You make a lot of great points there, nice to enjoy reading someone's comments, I think retail is too far gone in terms of the points I was trying to get across in this video, it would have to be implemented If they did a classic plus, which surely they will do at some point little work for easy money is right up blizzards street 😅
The problem is Metzen and the other writers decided to focus on the faction conflict which became arguably the most iconic part of WoW, even though it was completely inconsistent with WC3. If someone wanted to make a new version of WoW which isn't a borderline fanfiction, then got rid of the faction conflict, people would literally say its a fanfic and not true to the original. There are many more elements which are like this in WoW, the vast majority of the community is just simply not aware.
People have to understand that the faction conflict in WoW was already heavily nonsensical in Vanilla after the events of Warcraft 3, since that game pretty much made the Horde a "good" faction which wouldn't start wars unless its for the greater good. The writers took many other creative liberties as well, so the faction conflict and factions themselves which people uphold as a core element of WoW are pretty much inconsistencies/plotholes at best. However it only became worse and worse as the story went on, as the Alliance and Horde teamed up multiple times to save the world even in Vanilla. Them being consistent allies then simply going back to massacare each other is just stupid, period. In WotLK, when we raid ICC, the stronghold of the Scourge and the Lich King, the enemy to all life on Azeroth, they literally start an aerial mini-battle during the siege. How nonsensical is that? 😂😂 Then I haven't mentioned the question of how they replenish their numbers after these long and bloody conflicts, like, how does the Horde keep up with food supplies when Orgrimmar was built in a desert? Storwmind has farmlands in Goldshire and Westfall to produce crops. The Horde literally has nothing in those barren wastelands, yet the story treats it like the numbers of the Horde and Alliance are equal. Overall, the entire faction conflict was flawed to its core in every way imaginable, including gameplay too, not suprisingly. Its quite interesting, the community would universally agree the faction conflict IS WoW, yet 99% have no idea of what I said above. I always thought the race fantasy should have been the focus of WoW, with the Horde, Alliance, Night Elves and Forsaken all being separate.
I also think it would be good to completely break horde and ally and have each race fend for themselves with complex web of relations and reputations that strongly affect you as a player. Like Everquest did. Nail some race reps at hated (like orcs and humans or orcs and night elves), but open others. Yes maybe two different types of elves will hate each-other, but what do Humans of Stormwind care about their petty differences, let all elves in regardless! And the whole things with Dark-irons, don't even get me started. Such a huge opportunity missed out on involving Blackrock mountain in this tangled web of reputations. Vanilla tried it but very superficially.
That would be an unreal idea that, sadly I think we would only get something Iike that in a private server, would be unreal to have an open world RPG game like skyrim to explore more of the lore in wow
This wouldn't make a lot of sense. The Tauren, Trolls and Orcs should be in the Horde, along with the Ogres Rexxar recruited in Warcraft 3. Similarly, the Gnome-Dwarf-Human trio should remain in the Alliance, but I agree that each race's fantasy should have been focused more. The Kaldorei and Forsaken should have been their own thing as well.
I've also loved the faction conflict, yes, but as stated by others, I do agree that it's meaningless now, with all the threats Azeroth has faced, starting from TBC actually, which is still considered classic WoW. But I think, imo, if a faction conflict based game would be so successful, more MMOs would do it, especially to a bigger scale. Look at ESO, started with 3 factions, restrictions, etc. and now we can all play together, and even ANY race in ANY faction. If faction segregation would be so successful with players, I think more games would do it, but apparently not.
While your points are valid and make sense, I think I like the conflict between the Alliance and Horde ending. Throughout Warcraft's history, there have been many times where both factions have tried to reach peace with one another, with outside influences often being what led to them continuing to fight. It makes sense that sooner or later the two sides would come together, especially to protect their home world which is constantly under siege. Gameplay-wise, the majority of people really just want to easily play with their friends. It'd suck to meet someone who likes to play WoW, but the fact they only have a fully-geared/leveled character on the opposite faction from you meant you were out of luck on playing together unless one of you rolled a new toon. It also limits the choices of new players who might want to play with their friends, but are more interested in the faction said friends aren't a part of. The majority of people who play MMOs really want to play with their friends, so limiting them from doing so is always a net-negative. It's not the same as, for example, Morrowind, which is a single-player game, so your house/faction choices limiting you make far more sense. That all said, both factions getting their own unique questlines and zones would be cool, as that wouldn't interfere with the accessibility.
I think the ship has sailed for retail in terms of having factions be separate as for all the reasons you have listed from story driven and player wise, but if they ever did a classic plus I'd love to see it go down the route of unique faction identity
Sorry... but in a 20 year old game, the faction conflict had become tired and boring. BFA and the whole Sylvanas story arc proved that. Moving past that was the best thing the game has done. (IMHO)
Bro it's not that time magically made it tired and boring. Boot up Warcraft 3 and you will feel the raw appeal of it still standing there as strong as ever. They just banished everyone talented from the company and are left with people who can't tell a good story.
Agreed. Garrosh was supposed to largely be the end of it. After Legion there was no reason to go back to faction warfare. The "soul" of warcraft IS the factions coming together. People still whining over "faction pride" haven't been playing for years and years tearing their hair out over how the story started to tie itself into knots trying to justify these two factions fighting. It was stupid, it was tired, and it made me quit once before.
@@Bramandin Respectfully disagree.. WoW storytelling is pretty good. Not only telling good stories ... but telling them in interesting ways (not just spoon-feeding the story to you ... or making you buy novels to get the story). Siren Isle is a good example. There is a cool narrative there if you read all the stone tablets, the letters / diaries you find in game, etc.
@@grimwanderer Ok man, we can agree to disagree. I find major ways in which wow is telling stories to be glaringly bad. Also I don't see how you disagree about Warcraft 3.
A game like wow need conflict, not to say we need to be at war all the time but just a I just don't like you, can't trust you type of vibe. In time of need we will band together and take down the big boss but then we go are separate ways and go back to our old way. If you ask me it was from wrath to mop that did this the best.
Im sick of the "war" in warcraft frankly, mostly because they cant write a compelling war story anymore, the whole 4th war sucked, and im glad that is done and dusted, i think trying to reconcile with the egos and factions at play is more interesting then "oh the horde and alliance are at war again"
We are running out of compelling characters as well, it won't be long before nobody cares about those either, as everyone's favourite characters are the ones from years ago nobody seems bothered by the new ones they introduce
@@TheLuminousLynx111 yeah in short retail killed the Faction uniqueness and its bad :P, sadly modern blizz is like this they dont understand what makes wow truly fun and they only deliver a product made for people who only gets something fun out of the game from numbers (better gear).
I don't think many of the original team are even working for blizzard anymore, which is probably what had caused it to go down the path it has gone down
What do you mean here? That Cata gave Alliance OP racials? Or the Horde? The latter faction had the edge over the other since Vanilla, both passive and active racials were way better for the Horde overall. I don't remember Cata changing this for PvE, Horde is still just better, but Alliance races got some care for PvP. I'm just confused by the wording of the comment.
@@JohnRengo-h4w Horde had the op racials. Alliance had a pve advantage in vanilla. TBC & Wotlk Horde had an advantage but it wasent that big. But in cata blizzard made it very large, the devs even admitted they made it on purpose.
@ I mean that’s subjective. There’s been some good story beats and some bad ones. I really enjoyed Legion, Dragonflight, and I’m enjoying TWW. None of these involve a faction war.
@@LeviathonX Thats objectively not true. WoW retconned WC3 on many levels, but later expansions kept retconning stuff over and over, making more and more nonsensical decisions as it went on. I wouldn't use the word "evolved", it implies the story grew or changed in a positive way, that is has become more. Sadly Metzen and the writing team didn't dissapoint when it came to just absurdly nonsensical writing.
I'm going to be Honest here we need new faction divides no more horde no more alliance we need a good vers evil arc where Our Chars can choose if we want to try and destroy the world or Save it we don't get much of a choice on the narrative of the story. I can guaranty there are F ton of players that would love to play the evil side regardless of weather they win or not. Take lotro's Monster system it's great. all they really need to do is take all the races allied races included and create a new Faction with them all. create a Quest line where you are either the leader or the right hand of the leader and Create Content for it. it would create some jobs.
That would be awesome to see how that would pan out, I mean they have seasons of discovery/mastery and they did mop remix so they could implement a system like that on a server like that to see how it is perceived
I would definitely prefer there to be unique differences between each faction making you think which faction suits you best compared to now where it makes zero difference
@@TheLuminousLynx111the story is exactly why they can't justify the faction conflict anymore. You had to play Mists, Legion, then BFA to understand this frustration
Ye sadly in retail the storyline is hard to follow for old time players never mind new, classic plus would be the only way to have a different storyline which would be easier to follow
The answer isn't quite so binary. Regardless of if the Horde and Alliance are at war or not, it has no bearing on whether or not the story is good. The alternatives do not decide the quality of the storytelling. The factions have never been more at odds than they were during Battle for Azeroth, and that expansion is to this day still hated by many for its story. The simple answer is, a good story is a good story. Regardless of the positions of the factions. What the world needs is a variety of narratives explored with good quality writing. A LOT of factors decide the quality of the story, but the interpolitical state of the factions has no bearing on it whatsoever.
The horde v alliance being at war of course has a massive effect on the story it's the 2 main factions 😅 but this video was more about playing each faction from a gameplay point of view and not the over arcing story in the background
Of course it has, consistency is a key element to good writing. You can't make two factions like each other then make them start a war out of nowhere. WoW had significant issues with its worldbuilding when considering finer details like geopolitics, technological advancement or agriculture, and there were many retcons and inconsistencies. We never even got official info on how populous each of the races are or how big the world truly is outside of the game. I remember there is an Unreal Engine 4 showcase of what the Azuremyst Isle could look realistically, it was amazing. Not just because it had modern visuals, but also because it made the area massive and immersive, with the Exodar being a colossal object in the background. If that video was canon, it would add so much flavor to the world, let alone if we had others like it.
Faction identity needs to become a focus again! Faction exclusive classes was amazing!
Weirdly not many seem to be for this as much as I thought, I'm all for it though
For real, also the fractions where a big part of the players identity, this is a game about war. 2 fractions in endless fight, this is not about inclusion and love.
I think that would cool, but it’ll divide dev resources. Like DF/TWW map quality is insane and having to make 2 different maps with different characters/quests lines with the same scope/ quality would be a frankly insane task.
Ye that's true but we do pay a monthly fee plus money for every expansion so it's not like we aren't paying enough for them to put some work into the game, plus the cash shop
Ye i personally preferred it when they hated each other back in og wow there was general hatred for the other faction it was like man united v arsenal, rangers v celtic now its all friendly and seems far removed from what wow once was
Once the threats escalated to the point where all of Azeroth or even the mortal plane itself were at stake, the faction war stopped making sense. I don’t mind minor skirmishes or political tension, but going back to how it was in 2004 would come off as pretty silly at this point.
Ye we definitely can't go back that way now, but should we have ever brought the 2 factions closer together in the first place?
@@TheLuminousLynx111 Yes. Stories evolve... or they die. The story had to move beyond where it was. We had about 26 years (from Warcraft 1 to the end of BFA) for that story. It was tedious. (IMHO)
@@grimwanderer certainly seems like a lot of people share your view and i guess after all someone has to either win the war or a peace needs to come it cant remain a constant war where it remains equal
Which Version of the Game are you all currently playing?
The answer is yes, but I think its better overall to allow horde and alliance "players" to play together.
In retail that's definitely the case now they couldn't go back, what do you think if they made classic plus would you prefer that style or to be separated
I think people are missing the point its not should we go back to it. but should we have ever deviated from the rivalry
To me, it make sense that the hord and the alliance would eventually make peace. That goal was established by leaders on both sides ever since warcraft 3. And after decades of interactions with eac hothers, of course they would all start to adopt aspects of the other side. Keeping the war and factions set in stone would be rather boring honnestly.
Do you believe the peace should last or at some point should something happen to reignite the feud ?
@@TheLuminousLynx111 Peace has been made and broken time and time again to the point where it's almost become comical. It's the longest "will they won't they" in history and I think everyone is tired of it. Conflicts should happen yes, but it should no longer be limited to alliance vs horde.
Going through the comments it does seem like the majority are sick of the conflict now, I would be Interested to see which player base prefers which side of the argument, something tells me retail players would lean towards peace and classic players more towards carrying on the war between factions, but that's purely a guess
Wow is about war between 2 fractions, not love and inclusion. Hopefully blizz will understand that one day.
So you're telling me you aren't a fan of it being body type one and body type 2 instead of male and female 🤣
@TheLuminousLynx111 hahaha, no thats not the problem, but look at wow now and look at it 15 years ago, almost everything is "cute" and "fluffy" horde can join guildes with alliance... this all its not wow anymore... (for me!) There are no smelly nerdy dudes kn development anymore. Now there sit blue haired emilys who have never played or even made a game.
100% agree with you there, wtf is a vulpera doing in this game🙄 it's gone down a completely different trajectory from where it first started that's for sure, the old lore was brutal the orcs murdering the dranei on draenor to the new lore of anduin being sad 😔
@@TheLuminousLynx111 THANK YOU! i had the vulpera all the time in my head😂😂😂 its just a shame... i mean there was "cute stuff" in wow already, and thats absolute okay, but now the game is just a big fluffy inclusive rainbow blobb....
It's madness isn't it,even the posts they put on Facebook/instagram at times I look at them shake my head and type out why wow has gone so far away from what it was, but then I delete it because I think they don't care and I cba with responding to the idiots
I guess you need paladins and shaman on both factions for some balance reasons but they could have gone with the same route that Swtor did. You have the same classes on both sides with the same function of the skills but that is the only common thing they have. Classes are named different, looks different, the skills have different names and graphics etc.
Thing is do we need balance across the board, would it perhaps be better to have horde be better in some areas and alliance in others, but I definitely like your idea of different names for things if we are having balance
Balance has nothing to do with this, Blizz could never consistently make that happen. Remember just how objectively better the Horde racials were compared to Alliance in Vanilla? Or how outright better the Blood Elf Paladins were in TBC before they got changed? The Horde was objectively more powerful as a faction during early WoW, both PvP and PvE, but it had nothing to do with two classes being faction exclusive.
Was just discussing this with a friend who is also a long time WoW player. We think it needs to end but not in just a strait-laced ending fashion. Add a third faction. A blended faction. Each person on each side can start in this third faction, but additionally, every current character would have a choice/chance to join this third faction. However, if you join this blended faction, you cant go back. Youre exiled from all of your faction’s cities and reputations.
Would you have anything unique in this faction to be different to the other 2 factions, say like a class horde and alliance can't choose ? And where would their main city be? Cool idea I like it
Illidan and his followers should have been the 3rd big faction in BC, but instead they made them villains for no reason. WoW writing at its peak I'd say. 😅
I remember reading the original manuals thinking eh I don't understand why illidan is bad here 😆
@@JohnRengo-h4w i agree. The buddy i refer to in my above comment is also with you 100%. He’s wanted Naga as a playable race for years.
Especially considering he was a hero in WC3. I am glad we ‘sorta’ got that redemption for him in Legion though.
@@TheLuminousLynx111 ill have to contemplate this. We hadnt got that far in our discussions but i love brainstorming ideas such as these.
Another point to ask is - would/could racial bonuses change for the faction change?? No more human hearthstone silliness?? Id love it! Going off of my og comment, it would make sense to give the rep gain bonuses back to characters who join the 3rd faction considering the idea behind losing all rep gains if youd join the 3rd faction
Rather be able to play with my friends over keeping the factions unable to do PVE together. I do like the idea of faction specific classes and would not be upset if this came back.
I don't think one approach is necessarily better than the other. Warcraft III is pretty beloved but ROC ended with both factions working together, TFT had nothing to do with the factions, And the Rexxar campaign was about fighting racism. At the same time, the faction divide does bring a lot of unique flavour.
It comes down a lot to execution and capturing the nuance of the story. Faction unity has been fumbled in the current era because the two factions sorta just become good friends overnight with little of the baggage of a literal genocide and world war only a few years prior. They should be doing more of what they did with Heartlands, where there are plenty of autonomous opposing forces to peace within the factions despite the official truce. Where are the Night Elves and Worgen clamouring for justice? What about the Garrosh/Sylvanas loyalists? What about the stolen territory during the Cataclysm and BFA? Stuff like that. It can even be woven into War Mode where players can support factionalist radical groups.
In the end I think Blizzard chose the path of faction unity because they wanted world ending threats as the central plots of expansions (hard to weave in cohesive faction conflict when there's a literal apocalypse) and now they want to move closer to a fully undivided player base. If they had doubled down on faction divide I think they would have had to commit fully to the faction conflict narrative, otherwise I don't know how you can really meaningfully keep it interesting and fresh if it's just a backdrop.
Great video!
You make a lot of great points there, nice to enjoy reading someone's comments, I think retail is too far gone in terms of the points I was trying to get across in this video, it would have to be implemented
If they did a classic plus, which surely they will do at some point little work for easy money is right up blizzards street 😅
The problem is Metzen and the other writers decided to focus on the faction conflict which became arguably the most iconic part of WoW, even though it was completely inconsistent with WC3. If someone wanted to make a new version of WoW which isn't a borderline fanfiction, then got rid of the faction conflict, people would literally say its a fanfic and not true to the original.
There are many more elements which are like this in WoW, the vast majority of the community is just simply not aware.
People have to understand that the faction conflict in WoW was already heavily nonsensical in Vanilla after the events of Warcraft 3, since that game pretty much made the Horde a "good" faction which wouldn't start wars unless its for the greater good. The writers took many other creative liberties as well, so the faction conflict and factions themselves which people uphold as a core element of WoW are pretty much inconsistencies/plotholes at best.
However it only became worse and worse as the story went on, as the Alliance and Horde teamed up multiple times to save the world even in Vanilla. Them being consistent allies then simply going back to massacare each other is just stupid, period. In WotLK, when we raid ICC, the stronghold of the Scourge and the Lich King, the enemy to all life on Azeroth, they literally start an aerial mini-battle during the siege. How nonsensical is that? 😂😂
Then I haven't mentioned the question of how they replenish their numbers after these long and bloody conflicts, like, how does the Horde keep up with food supplies when Orgrimmar was built in a desert? Storwmind has farmlands in Goldshire and Westfall to produce crops. The Horde literally has nothing in those barren wastelands, yet the story treats it like the numbers of the Horde and Alliance are equal.
Overall, the entire faction conflict was flawed to its core in every way imaginable, including gameplay too, not suprisingly. Its quite interesting, the community would universally agree the faction conflict IS WoW, yet 99% have no idea of what I said above. I always thought the race fantasy should have been the focus of WoW, with the Horde, Alliance, Night Elves and Forsaken all being separate.
I also think it would be good to completely break horde and ally and have each race fend for themselves with complex web of relations and reputations that strongly affect you as a player. Like Everquest did. Nail some race reps at hated (like orcs and humans or orcs and night elves), but open others. Yes maybe two different types of elves will hate each-other, but what do Humans of Stormwind care about their petty differences, let all elves in regardless!
And the whole things with Dark-irons, don't even get me started. Such a huge opportunity missed out on involving Blackrock mountain in this tangled web of reputations. Vanilla tried it but very superficially.
That would be an unreal idea that, sadly I think we would only get something Iike that in a private server, would be unreal to have an open world RPG game like skyrim to explore more of the lore in wow
This wouldn't make a lot of sense. The Tauren, Trolls and Orcs should be in the Horde, along with the Ogres Rexxar recruited in Warcraft 3. Similarly, the Gnome-Dwarf-Human trio should remain in the Alliance, but I agree that each race's fantasy should have been focused more. The Kaldorei and Forsaken should have been their own thing as well.
FOR THE HORDE
When sylvannas screams that, goosebumps every time
"What can Blizzard do to bring back that sense of faction pride?"
Nothing, because Blizzard doesn't exist anymore.
Would you want it back or you happy with the direction of the factions merging?
I've also loved the faction conflict, yes, but as stated by others, I do agree that it's meaningless now, with all the threats Azeroth has faced, starting from TBC actually, which is still considered classic WoW.
But I think, imo, if a faction conflict based game would be so successful, more MMOs would do it, especially to a bigger scale. Look at ESO, started with 3 factions, restrictions, etc. and now we can all play together, and even ANY race in ANY faction. If faction segregation would be so successful with players, I think more games would do it, but apparently not.
The game lost its flavor a looooong time ago. It's soul is long dead and it now feels something like farmville instead of WARcraft
Yep sadly I agree with you, I loved the lore of wow up until wrath after that it went down hill
systemcraft
While your points are valid and make sense, I think I like the conflict between the Alliance and Horde ending. Throughout Warcraft's history, there have been many times where both factions have tried to reach peace with one another, with outside influences often being what led to them continuing to fight. It makes sense that sooner or later the two sides would come together, especially to protect their home world which is constantly under siege. Gameplay-wise, the majority of people really just want to easily play with their friends. It'd suck to meet someone who likes to play WoW, but the fact they only have a fully-geared/leveled character on the opposite faction from you meant you were out of luck on playing together unless one of you rolled a new toon. It also limits the choices of new players who might want to play with their friends, but are more interested in the faction said friends aren't a part of. The majority of people who play MMOs really want to play with their friends, so limiting them from doing so is always a net-negative. It's not the same as, for example, Morrowind, which is a single-player game, so your house/faction choices limiting you make far more sense.
That all said, both factions getting their own unique questlines and zones would be cool, as that wouldn't interfere with the accessibility.
I think the ship has sailed for retail in terms of having factions be separate as for all the reasons you have listed from story driven and player wise, but if they ever did a classic plus I'd love to see it go down the route of unique faction identity
Sorry... but in a 20 year old game, the faction conflict had become tired and boring. BFA and the whole Sylvanas story arc proved that. Moving past that was the best thing the game has done. (IMHO)
Bro it's not that time magically made it tired and boring. Boot up Warcraft 3 and you will feel the raw appeal of it still standing there as strong as ever. They just banished everyone talented from the company and are left with people who can't tell a good story.
Agreed. Garrosh was supposed to largely be the end of it. After Legion there was no reason to go back to faction warfare.
The "soul" of warcraft IS the factions coming together. People still whining over "faction pride" haven't been playing for years and years tearing their hair out over how the story started to tie itself into knots trying to justify these two factions fighting. It was stupid, it was tired, and it made me quit once before.
@@Bramandin Respectfully disagree.. WoW storytelling is pretty good. Not only telling good stories ... but telling them in interesting ways (not just spoon-feeding the story to you ... or making you buy novels to get the story). Siren Isle is a good example. There is a cool narrative there if you read all the stone tablets, the letters / diaries you find in game, etc.
@@grimwanderer Ok man, we can agree to disagree. I find major ways in which wow is telling stories to be glaringly bad. Also I don't see how you disagree about Warcraft 3.
the faction conflict is not boring, its the writing thats boring
I agree!
A game like wow need conflict, not to say we need to be at war all the time but just a I just don't like you, can't trust you type of vibe. In time of need we will band together and take down the big boss but then we go are separate ways and go back to our old way. If you ask me it was from wrath to mop that did this the best.
mop coming this year 😀
Im sick of the "war" in warcraft frankly, mostly because they cant write a compelling war story anymore, the whole 4th war sucked, and im glad that is done and dusted, i think trying to reconcile with the egos and factions at play is more interesting then "oh the horde and alliance are at war again"
We are running out of compelling characters as well, it won't be long before nobody cares about those either, as everyone's favourite characters are the ones from years ago nobody seems bothered by the new ones they introduce
why care about that anymore. its not important anymore
I thought it was an interesting talking point
Yes due to cata killing the alliance on purpose by giving them insane racials, Horde has become a wannabe alliance.
Ooooh calling horde a wannabe alliance will ruffle a few die hard horde feathers 😆
@@TheLuminousLynx111 yeah in short retail killed the Faction uniqueness and its bad :P, sadly modern blizz is like this they dont understand what makes wow truly fun and they only deliver a product made for people who only gets something fun out of the game from numbers (better gear).
I don't think many of the original team are even working for blizzard anymore, which is probably what had caused it to go down the path it has gone down
What do you mean here? That Cata gave Alliance OP racials? Or the Horde? The latter faction had the edge over the other since Vanilla, both passive and active racials were way better for the Horde overall. I don't remember Cata changing this for PvE, Horde is still just better, but Alliance races got some care for PvP. I'm just confused by the wording of the comment.
@@JohnRengo-h4w Horde had the op racials.
Alliance had a pve advantage in vanilla.
TBC & Wotlk Horde had an advantage but it wasent that big.
But in cata blizzard made it very large, the devs even admitted they made it on purpose.
No. The story evolved since WC3. It’s time to move on.
Evolved for the better or worse?
@@TheLuminousLynx111 for the worse
@ I mean that’s subjective. There’s been some good story beats and some bad ones. I really enjoyed Legion, Dragonflight, and I’m enjoying TWW. None of these involve a faction war.
@@LeviathonX Thats objectively not true. WoW retconned WC3 on many levels, but later expansions kept retconning stuff over and over, making more and more nonsensical decisions as it went on. I wouldn't use the word "evolved", it implies the story grew or changed in a positive way, that is has become more.
Sadly Metzen and the writing team didn't dissapoint when it came to just absurdly nonsensical writing.
I'm going to be Honest here we need new faction divides no more horde no more alliance we need a good vers evil arc where Our Chars can choose if we want to try and destroy the world or Save it we don't get much of a choice on the narrative of the story. I can guaranty there are F ton of players that would love to play the evil side regardless of weather they win or not. Take lotro's Monster system it's great. all they really need to do is take all the races allied races included and create a new Faction with them all. create a Quest line where you are either the leader or the right hand of the leader and Create Content for it. it would create some jobs.
Hell We have multiple Worlds now from argus to draynor yay to new Ideas
That would be awesome to see how that would pan out, I mean they have seasons of discovery/mastery and they did mop remix so they could implement a system like that on a server like that to see how it is perceived
man "blood" elfs were such a mistake. I will never get over it. Imagine if horde only got second generation, Draenor, DKs and alliance got wardens.
I would definitely prefer there to be unique differences between each faction making you think which faction suits you best compared to now where it makes zero difference
i dont think people care enough about story anymore tbh
Ye story has gone out the window I think, it's systems over story
@@TheLuminousLynx111the story is exactly why they can't justify the faction conflict anymore. You had to play Mists, Legion, then BFA to understand this frustration
Ye sadly in retail the storyline is hard to follow for old time players never mind new, classic plus would be the only way to have a different storyline which would be easier to follow
The answer isn't quite so binary.
Regardless of if the Horde and Alliance are at war or not, it has no bearing on whether or not the story is good. The alternatives do not decide the quality of the storytelling. The factions have never been more at odds than they were during Battle for Azeroth, and that expansion is to this day still hated by many for its story.
The simple answer is, a good story is a good story.
Regardless of the positions of the factions.
What the world needs is a variety of narratives explored with good quality writing. A LOT of factors decide the quality of the story, but the interpolitical state of the factions has no bearing on it whatsoever.
The horde v alliance being at war of course has a massive effect on the story it's the 2 main factions 😅 but this video was more about playing each faction from a gameplay point of view and not the over arcing story in the background
Of course it has, consistency is a key element to good writing. You can't make two factions like each other then make them start a war out of nowhere. WoW had significant issues with its worldbuilding when considering finer details like geopolitics, technological advancement or agriculture, and there were many retcons and inconsistencies. We never even got official info on how populous each of the races are or how big the world truly is outside of the game.
I remember there is an Unreal Engine 4 showcase of what the Azuremyst Isle could look realistically, it was amazing. Not just because it had modern visuals, but also because it made the area massive and immersive, with the Exodar being a colossal object in the background. If that video was canon, it would add so much flavor to the world, let alone if we had others like it.