Katy Perry's Lawsuit - A Travesty For Songwriters
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Funny, I was just thinking about the utility of anti-plagiarism software and weather I could effectively author a program given my knowledge of theory, really lack thereof. Potential issues would be regional vs. international legal standards, potential liability in each context, input format(notation, MIDI, etc.), and platform. In regard to platform, aside from the OSes (desktop, mobile app, or web), consideration for plugins or extensions for DAWs might be desirable, but the caveat is each is not language independent and would need to be re-written for each ecosystem.
Would you potentially be interested in collaborating or at least helping to develop specifications to determine scope and feasibility? Authoring software can be a lengthy process and while I see a lot of places where bottlenecks could occur, I also think the core code would be reusable and could be a base from which other projects could be built. If you are interested, we should relocate this discussion.
Mary uhh.....I have a crush on you like hard. Yeah I know I'm at the age to have gotten over crushing on someone but, I can't help it. You're so beautiful it hurts, your talent is just a cut above, and your integrity is just oh my lord attractive. Congratulations Mary on your success.....you are just gorgeous! 🎶🌹🎶
When’s AC/DC going to lose their entire catalog to the owner of the G chord?
I _own_ the G chord. It's the only one I play well.
amerocker go get your money then
@@amerocker I've got the D chord covered. If we can find who owns C we can start a class action lawsuit against anyone in history who ever used a 1-4-5 chord progression. We'll be RICH! LOL
Michael Smith pretty sure it’s Johnny Marr coz he uses that shape all the time all over the fretboard
@@michaelsmith2017 Nail down the D and C and Neil Young is screwed!
Cool there goes basically the entire blues genre, every 4 chord song that exists, and practically all metal in e minor. Nice.
Led Zepplin...whoops
No more pentatonic minor for anybody!
A huge chunk of metal in e-minor has chromatic riffs, so a lot of it is unique.
What about the lick?
@@RetroPlus dude there goes the lick rip
Rick Beato and Adam Neely on your defence team? You can't lose!
Gavin MacDonald. My thoughts after watching Adam’s vid was that you’d have to question the competence of Perry’s lawyers. Haven’t seen Rick’s yet but will go back & watch it. The more noise made about this the better!
GO ON ADAM ME SON
Adam would be the best. He would explain why the lawsuit is frivolous.
Chris Garner good point
@@somemod8045 He talked about how you can't own a minor scale with the lawsuit.
He has no reputation since no one has heard of him and will soon forget about him.
I don't agree:
m.th-cam.com/video/UTTzh8DZkFY/w-d-xo.html
Wow. You gotta chill there. Just because you don't listen to him, doesn't mean he doesn't exist and has no reputation. Most artists don't know you even exist, does that mean you have no reputation?Although I don't agree with the lawsuit and think it's completely unnecessary, I do know that Katy Perry had a beginning as a "Christian" musician, however long that lasted and however long ago. It's not unreasonable to think that she would know who Flame or other similar musicians to him are.
All because when they bring in lawyers and 'experts' music is completely misunderstood-the entire western music tradition has recycled musical figures. what about Blues, as a genre, all of those I-IV-V progressions? It is absurd, and I refute the technical basis of this lawsuit, we need to resist this!
I agree with you and support your point, and I understand, however there's a technical error...you can't have copyright for a chord progression, but you are totally right and again, agree 1000%
Great example!! By this precedent, every single modern blues musician is subject to lawsuit by the original bluesmen and women.
Absolutely... How many songs can I play on guitar with 3-5 chords... almost all pop
Nothing to do with it; this song is simply almost a cover.
@@executionsquad3926 That is your expert opinion is it, like the anus, opinions proliferate ubiquitously. I don't like anonymous know it alls.
It's just lawyers and money ~ nothing to do with music
klivegee that could be the new title of dire straits new album
@@r4vr4c Didn't Warren Zevon already write 'Send money, guns and lawyers'?
Neither do Katy Perry or some random rap "artist"
It's good to protect artists from being stolen from. But unless it is a substantial part of the song and you can truly hear that it's the same composition/lyrics it's ridiculous.
There's a reason the KP lawsuit took 5 years, even in the legal circuit that usually has a slower pace. It's because Flame was adamant about it or his lawyers influenced him to continue.
Still marks a shit precedent
Musicians should now listen to Flame's other songs, find similarities and sue the shit out of him
Yeah, this should backfire at him.
I like that Idea a LOT!
Christian songs plagiarize everything else in the music world. The pious sacrimonious scumbags have been doing this for centuries. Same for their writings and everything else.
Their song use lyrics right out of the Bible and why can’t they come up with new tunes. Everyone has to redo the same songs over and over.....
There pigeon John and red cloud Christian but very oringinal in sound
As a fellow song writer and composer.... These cases are making writing especially complicated.
Song is copied:
m.th-cam.com/video/UTTzh8DZkFY/w-d-xo.html
Lol
@@executionsquad3926 oh, is that why he lost?
And I thought I was impressed with you before! Very well said Mary.
It was getting late, I was afraid that we were going to have a Tuesday without Mary; this was worth the wait.
I'm scared to comment, in case someone wants 43 percent of my two cents :-(
Those are ALL words I've used before.
Please PM me your lawyer's address. My team will be in contact
I became a musician in 1959 with my first guitar. I recently retired as a professor of sound engineering. Over the years I have come to hate the music industry, but I still love music. But I want nothing to do with it professionally. Intellectual property laws and copyright laws have become absurd. But this law suit should not even fit within the already absurd laws.
I will second your sentiment. I grew to hate everything about the industry while working in it. I wished I'd stayed working as a sound engineer/designer in theatre.
Don't apologize Mary, ever! Beato and Neely have their crowds, you have yours. I'm sure you reach some other individuals than them. You have your own space. Fill it up! And what you're saying here is very important and it is important that you say it too! And that you reach more people with this very important knowledge. Keep up the good work Mary!
I OWN the D chord! ....AND 4/4 time.
Don't you dare use either or I'll sue your ass.
These lawsuits are silly and it's not surprising that non-musician jurys have found in the plaintiffs favor. ...What they don't understand is the immense precedent they are setting for all music and the impact it could have.
You beat me to it lol. I'll claim 3/4 time and key of A. Seriously agree, the lawsuit was ridiculous and it could get in way of creativity for other music creators cause of fear of unintentionally copying a big popular song even if very little is in common with other song. I was surprised at the outcome of the lawsuit tbh
@@timtoongamer Anyone taken 6/8 yet? I might take C major too while I'm at it.
I claim the E minor scale, no more Metallica for anybody!!
I kinda think that there should be a time period when to sue haha. Dark horse has been out for a hot minute. You can’t wait forever.
And that’s how AC/DC Lost their entire catalog...
Don’t understand how a jury can rule in favour... Perry’s defence team must have been rubbish.
Not necessarily. While juries do a pretty good job, some juries do not, no matter how good the lawyering. For good reason, most parties settle because juries are inherently unpredictable.
it is amazing how much those two songs do not sound alike
That s a frigging lie. The main beat of the songs are near identical
Let's be honest, they sound super similar. But everything similar about them is so basic im sure hundreds of new FL studio users made similar shit on their first time
What reputation was damaged? I never heard of Flame before, now I have, result: he gets more plays and views.
He wanted 20 million dollars, ahahahahahahahahahaah that's a laugh. Because his song didn't make it he sues Katy for making a hit song.
Björn Eriksson it was a #1 gospel song and was nominated for a GRAMMY trust me Katy Perry's producers heard the song.
@@altonmassson that's assuming that all producers listen to every number 1 song on every chart in every genre every week. That is quite a deal of music because I play gospel music for my church and I have never heard of Flame or his song until this lawsuit. Plus, depending on the genre, number 1 does not always equate to $20,000,000. That just means that during a given period a song out sold other songs on a given chart list, not that it made millions of dollars. if I sell 10,000 units in a week under the genre of R&B and the next highest sells 9,800 on the same chart, that could make me a #1 artist, but not $20,000,000.
Oh and every blues player, why dont we hear of those lawsuits...exactly :)
Led Zeppelin was sued many times for ripping off blues songs. There is an old quote that says, "Good artists borrow and great artists steal."
One of he reasons why old blues artists didn't care was that they sold songs to labels and no longer had the rights to them. Many would have a stage name for each label and sell their rights to the song to each label. They made their money playing live and so do the blues performers of today.
not to mention the "amen break" prolly the most sampled song in history !
And all the gospel artists who've used this blues progression.
Uhhhh cause noone listens to or pays money for blue so there is no money to sue for
Blues as a style and its leading lights never had it so good, if a curtain bunch of British guitarist didn't rip them off with great reverence.
Where would we be today if back in the day someone could lay claim to the 12 bar turn around.
Fortunately Katy won the appeal. Lets hope it ends there. But if it does not, then the correct strategy moving forward is to deconstruct every release by Flame comparing it with every previous release looking for any similarities and then drafting a law suit for every single example.
By the standards being set by these juries and disingenuous musicologists every blues artist should be suing every other blues artist.
Except the old style was to see the rights to the labels so there was no incentive to sue for something they no longer owned.
I’m no expert but they don’t sound that similar to me. People just grasp at straws for 5 more minutes of fame and five more dollars. #TeamKaty
I love how she wants Rick Beato and Adam Neely on her defense team! Very smart choice, Mary!
To paraphrase Warren Zevon: "Send Lawyers, Guns and Money,... I'm going to write a song."
The stooges I. Wanna be your dog vs new order blue. Monday
John Mayer flat out says when playing the blues, who he is ripping off. Good music writing and playing should be encouraged.
Ummmm
Have you tried playing his "ripped off" blues?
@@RedemptionArtsTeam No one said Mayer ain't a good musician, just that say where he burrowed some inspiration.
But again, I guess rock n' roll was found in stolen gimmicks of previous acts. Imagine if a guy like Tommy Iommi wake up with Flame's mentality, every heavy metal band in the worl would be sued XD
I was referring to JMs playing, its really unique and different...nothing stolen or even borrowed there.
The only way you find out is if you try and play his stuff.
@@RedemptionArtsTeam he's genius at borrowing a tiny little part of his favorite musicians licks/styles. He combined and mixed it all with his own style, thus became his signature.
The music video for Michael Jackson's "Remember the Time" has a bigger claim of influence on "Dark Horse" than "Joyful Noise"
Bitcoin Motorist i was just thinking that!
Facts
What...u expect Michael Jackson to jump up outta the grave or something? C'mon...
@@cjhepburn7406 there's still people owning the song
@@cjhepburn7406 Lol exactly. I know I shouldnt have done this, but I couldn't help letting out a laugh
I also talked about this and I agree with you. I believe this should not be conducted together with a jury who know nothing about music. This should be a musicologist vs musicologist representing each side. Whoever representing Perry did a pisspoor job at presenting the value of melody vs a riff or ostinato.
The beat from the first example and the melody from the second are so astronomically simple that I don't understand how they can be proprietary at all...? Especially given how vastly different the arrangements sound when all the layers are together.
My sweet lord! I wish they'd stop, collaborate and listen... 😉
By George, I love the reference!
I see what you did there! Brilliant! Kudos!
Cmaj Amin Fmaj Gmaj
Ok just so all of you know, I own this now and will sue everybody who uses it, no matter what key.
You just copyrighted "Heart & Soul". You can now sue every child who gets near a piano. 🤣
Hi Mary, it is ridiculous, it is a bit like saying "you are not allowed to put green next to blue in your picture because i painted a lake in a field and your peacock feathers are ruining the vibe of my picture" So how many variations of seven notes in a 4/4 time signature is there, i am pretty sure that its all been used before. Well hopefully, it will all come to sense, all the best, Darren Ross.
It's not!
m.th-cam.com/video/UTTzh8DZkFY/w-d-xo.html
As a Christian and a lover of music, I was disappointed that Flame took Perry to court. Even more upset when he won. It does indeed set a problematic and, dare I say, unholy precedent
I agree. Sueing someone is net a very Christian thing to do. Flame needs to reread his Bible. Plus, with all of the music that has been written throughout the centuries, it's not surprising that parts of music are similar to music that has already been written.
Mary, thank you, but America's legal system is long foolish. SMH
America’s legal system is largely based off the British legal system.
The original legal system was almost perfect, and no it wasnt based on the british legal system they are both based on the isreal republic legal system
@@Clay300 Yeah you are almost right there. Common Law(aka Judicial Precedent or case law) is of English origin look it up. There is a theory by John Makdisi that says English Common Law was influenced by medievel Islamic Law.(Not Israel, that is how Israel is spelled not Isreal). Modern Israel was carved out of Ottoman Syria by the British after WWI, where they adopted many of the English based law practices we know today. Also NO legal system has been perfect in history, they are documents made by people who are flawed, and need to be revised in order to be applicable to the times. The laws Mary is speaking of are much more modern law practices developed in the late 1800s early 1900, when trademark and copyright laws were largely revised. They continue to be revised today, as more cases of precedence are ruled on by judges. England developed most of its copyright laws, along side the development of the printing press. History check complete. Sorry Mary for Trolling. I only was trying to state that American's legal system wasn't the only foolish system, Britain's is as well.
@@briancox8422 i believe laws are suppose to work for the people and not control the behavior of people through passing laws that do just that. looking into the history of the collapse of the roman empire and the story of Theodoric the great, i would say its all mostly based off Judaism at witch our constitution descends from Magna Carta coming from the biblical idea of the ten commandments.
@@Clay300 yeah except the Magna Carta has nothing to do with modern law really. The term Common Law came about in 1066 predating the Magna Carta first of all. Modern Law called Common Law/Judicial Law/Case Law is modern law and what our governments are based off of not the Magna Carta from 1215 that just limited the monarch originally. Modern or "English Law" was formed in Britain not somewhere else, the Americans adopted most of it and changed some stuff to make it seem like they were doing something. The British Legal System, is probably the most influential system in the world. There are only a few parts of the Magna Carta still in effect, and they don't really do much, now that Britain is a true democracy(sorta haha). What still holds on from the Magna Carta is it defends the freedom and rights of the English Church(most people aren't too active in the Church these days, just say they are and like to know it is there) another confirms the liberties and customs of London and other cities, and the MAIN ONE that still actual counts is trial by jury. Laws are meant to establish standards, keep order, resolve dispute(what we are dealing with), and protect liberties and freedoms.
Plagiarism, influence or not even remotely the same...
I really hope all musicians band together in this. I also hope this ridiculous decision is appealed and dropped.
G R Prolly case closed. Money's been taxed.
The musicologist for the plaintiff cracks me up. Someone send him a copy of Allen Forte & Steven Gilbert, Introduction to Schenkerian Analysis, New York & London, Norton, 1982.
Mark Hoover Whoa. Heavy.
Don’t know how I missed your take on this. Really agree with your take, and it has to be frightening for songwriters.
I mean how many songs use Am to C to G, or Am>C>D>G?
When Willy Dixon sued Zeppelin it wasn’t because they were playing the same blues progressions, it went can deeper into how a song is crafted.
These lawyers will take a case they think can be profitable for a cash out upon settlement.
Depressing.
The way her voice instantly changes from saying " chewsday tawks" and back into seriousness is lowkey hilarious
What is Chewsday Tawks?
As a guitarist I find I can play any random phrase of notes or any combination of chords and someone in the room will tell what song I was playing. It is often a tune I do not know and have never heard. I no longer write any music. It has all been written.
Let's all just claim the 4 chord songs.
I think you'll find that's mine 😉
Brendan Morales how do punk bands go about this using 3/4 power chords throughout an entire song? Only so many different combinations and permutations can be created with the amount of chords being played
I call dibs on I vi IV V. (I think Blink 182 already owns I V vi IV)
I own II - V - I now guys, be done with jazz
psoas oh man, way to corner the market. let’s hope the guy that owns the blues progression doesn’t hear about this case.
I hope Rick Beato is on the consulting team for the counter suit.
Excellent thoughts. thank you.
There is a finite number of combinations available, at some point there will be no original songs.
George Harrison's "This Song" (1976) about his lawsuit for "My sweet Lord" seems to be a perfect description for this nonsense case (even more the videoclip with lawyers showing vampire teeth)
I bought 'Thirty-Three and 1/3', by George Harrison, on vinyl new. My older sisters were surprised. It seemed that they didn't know that I knew who he was. And it was my older sisters whom raised me on Rock music, particularly The Beatles. "My experts tell me it's ok."
Academics are not experts in any expression based medium. I recently saw a segment in French news talking about some well known film director being interviewed. The interviewer brought up a scene in one of the director's films and spoke in detail about its meaning. The director replied that wasn't his actual meaning in the scene. Interviewer responds "....but I have a PH.D. in film studies..."
Ah, but you see academics have invented this absurd thing called "the death of the author", which basically means the author doesn't decide what their own creation is supposed to mean.
If it's "chewsday", does that mean you upload to "YouChewb"?
When she will be smashing rich, I advice her to buy a Powsh, a Woyce ow a Fewwawwi. Americans...
Her guitars were all built by famous "loosers", I guess? Her strats have "tram low" bars? Does she own a "know" caster, yet? Or one of those famous super heavy Logs?
Well done Mary! This got me to thinking - Will there be a rash of lawsuits in other music genres like the Blues? Such as, will some heirs to a Blues great get a high-priced lawyer and try to lay claim to every song written in the Blues Scale? Will country music songwriters go after one another over the general similarity of songs in that genre? It's a crazy world out there!
Every piece of music we write comes from somewhere else. Every note, chord, sound and pulse, comes from those who have gone before us, without exception. In fact they are resent and sometimes disguised in nature. All we (songwriters) do, is rearrange and 'colour' these 'provided' building blocks, to unlock a 'new' song or composition.
If there was no financial incentive regarding so-called plagiarism, then these lawsuits would simply never happen. It's the age old story of greed suffocating creativity. All artists should resist these moves to bring down fellow creatives. Pedantic lawyers are not the gatekeepers of creative influence... We are.
Well done!
Everyone here talking about blues songs....how about rap and hip hop? Same melody (none), same beats, same format, same vocal styling, same dance moves...etc etc.
This case definitely needs to go to appeal.
I am a computer coder, I love music, but, I don't know music.
Your presentation, sounds very logical, and to some extent, parallel to software coding.
I agree with you, I hope, Katy will appeal and win.
The lad's reputation has gone from 'literally zero repution, who even are you?' to 'oh, are you that greedy Christian weirdo that sued Katy Perry?'.
He won a Grammy, dude...
Do better;
@@nosajsamaniego4512 weird greedy Christian Grammy winner. Happy?
@@robbermakesmusic He won a Grammy, dude...;
Use commas, dude...;
Do better;
@@nosajsamaniego4512 Grammys suck. They have scammed many artists. and stop being a grammy nazi. This isnt school. It's a comment section, clearly it's understandable enough.
Random tip. Move your side facing camera a little more towards the front. The whole 'changing angles to make monologues more interesting' totally works but try small zooms and a 45 degree angle instead of a full profile shot
“Shit.”
-every blues musician ever after this legal finding
Quite dig the beat on top of each other - might “use it as influence” for my own song😂
Shiz... If I were to go through my Wilcoxen snare solo book, I could and would find rhythms that everyone has "stolen". There are only so many, until you get into obscure time signatures.
PrmFirestorm 086 See...u understand stuff.
Mary, please tell me you don't permanently keep your guitar rack right next to a radiator? A brilliant way to crack the finish.
This makes me so sad because when I'm writing music, I want to free myself. I want to express my thoughts and emotions, not be on high alert like a college undergrad writing an essay.
Thank you for putting your voice to this conversation. It's important and your insights are priceless.
Can one's reputation really be damaged when no one has heard of you prior to filing a frivolous lawsuit?
Not just worrying for music copyright law, but for ALL copyright law.
If it was brought up in court that an example of the claimed copyrighted material existed before the plaintiff’s work and the case wasn’t lost then what does copyright even mean?!?
A company I worked for had a copyright lawsuit brought against them for something considered fundamental in the industry. As soon as a documented instance of the practice in question that pre-dated the copyright was found the case was immediately decided in my company’s favor.
This opens the doors for anyone to copyright something that someone else is already doing, then sue them for copyright infringement as soon as they do it again after you gain the copyright.
Mary great job. This and Rick Beato's analysis shows this law suit is without merit.
Singer…Song writer and Music Lawyer me thinks…(you know just to fall back on Mary). I would be happy to have you in my corner anytime! Very smart and so well spoken on what is a tricky matter I guess so thanks for this. :)
That is insane and very scary. Here's hoping it is over turned. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thanks Mary for a concise and well-informed video! The research and time you must of put into this is inspiring.
At what point does "inspiration" become "infringement", if it is even copied off of an obscure song at all? (I don't even think it sounds like the "infringed" upon song at all). The lawsuit is frivolous and greedy and frightening for fellow musicians who have only 12 chords (7 or 8 in a single key) to work with. Just mathematically speaking, certain progressions, melodies, etc. Will be emulated, but that does not make it infringement.
"Ice Ice Baby" is a case of clear infringement, not "Dark Horse." Just plain foolishness. And this comes from a fellow follower of Christ. I think he (the artist and all involved in the prosecution) ought to be ashamed of himself!
Colton Allen 'only 12 chords to work with' ???? Look at the chord structure for something like the crusaders 'street life' .
@@geoffkeelerguitar9139 I think you misunderstand my comment. There are only 12 notes in the chromatic scale is what I mean.
Arthur Cole I love how everyone is citing Ice Ice Baby. Has there only been 2 cases of copyright infringement in the last 40 years? That's one every 20 years. Surley u/we can dodge that bullet? No?
So you're writing a song and deep into the process happen to hear a similarity between one section and some established song ... now you have to change that, which affects all the rest of the song ... How long can you extend such a chain of avoidance?
Keep your guitars away from that radiator!!!!!!!
I dont think they are on
This ruling goes against previous case or law of precedent.
An example case was John Lee Hooker and ZZ Top.
John Lee Hooker had no part of the suit. It was undertaken by the record company who had the rights to John Lee's Songs.
The case was thrown out.
Another example was the song Rolling Stone by the Rolling Stones that was basically Muddy Water's song Manish Boy which was also the same song as Hoochie Coochie Man.
There was no contest.
Hooker on a number of occasions played along with ZZ Top.
The Stones crashed Muddy Water's Performances a number of times and were always welcome.
The ideas in both of these songs are totally different. A basic beat that really isn't very original as this one isn't.
Even song ideas aren't copy right able such as being cheated on, losing a love, leaving on a train, someone dying are not copyright protected.
Musicians draw our inspiration from our experiences and we have huge volumes of public domain beats, chord progressions, or even lead riffs.
This case is pretty much the same as saying you own a D,A,G chord pattern or a Boogie Beat.
This case should be thrown out.
The ruling was an error in judgement by the court.
The guy that's doing the suing is an absolute idiot. What's next, suing someone for using similar words in a song? It's so petty and ridiculous
That Rad Guy Correction...rich idiot.
I agree with you Mary.. Flame has no weight in this case. To me it was really Flame who really got away with theft. Basic music building blocks and influence are not copyright protected.
So much for Christian behaviour!
Oh, you mean like Luke 6:29, 30?
i've never met a Christian in my life.
?
Claiming to control everything by right is a Christian thing.
Condemning pagans in courts they control is a Christian thing.
Hiring crooked lawyers is also a Christian thing.
This is all totally Christian.
@@crhu319 Jesus said all that did he? I think you've confused assholes with Jesus
Just a thought here...
The creation of a clear-cut documentation of what what music plagiarism is and is not. Define and create a standard for what is and is not considered acceptable, and where the line between derived inspiration and plagiarism is.
With vague and outdated laws concerning music plagiarism and copyright laws, the ability for trolls and shady legal practices will continue to run amok.
I, for one, feel if an artist derived inspiration from a piece of work that is out of copyright and can be proven, then the work isn't original, should cite the inspiration, and cannot own the complete wrights to the work...only what they have added. If another artist composes music based on the same out of copyright piece, neither will have legal claim to that element.
If it can be proven that Flame used an element of an older work (i.e. Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Liszt, Choppin...) that is a key element to his work, then that element is not original, cannot be owned, and should another artist use it will have no legal claim over it.
Works out of copyright and in the public domain should be fair game to derive inspiration from, "borrow" elements from, or use toward the creation of new works.
When comparing plagiarism in written works to music, at one point is it plagiarism? How much of a printed thought or message needs to be copied verbatim before it is considered plagiarism? A paragraph? A couple of sentences? One sentence? How does this translated to music and where is the cutoff?
The nonsense will continue until the industry implodes.
Chris McWethy
yes, i fully agree with you, this could be the next logical step, if not to reverse this veredict, at least to make this not happen again..
Behold, the new era of copyright trolls has arrived, Winter has finally come.
so interesting, excellent analysis!!!
Thanks for sharing Mary
fortunately, Perry has appealed.
Thank you so much for making this public and standing up for us who write and play music for a living. I have been a professional musician for over 50 + years playing with people from Randy Bachman to The Beach Boys, Paul Revere and the Raiders, Mary Wilson, Three Dog Night, Mitch Ryder, etc, etc. I am so appalled and (pissed) that this even got to court. This is total B.S. non-sense and so NOT fair to songwriters. It would be different if it were more obvious like George Harrison's honest mistake of using "He's so fine" in his "My Sweet Lord" song or something. These people are gold diggers and this is crap! Music should be shared, not copied or stolen but reeeeeeeally???? this lawsuit is so not right. My heart goes out to Katie Perry and her co-writers.
You had the chance to join the dark side - sue Shawn Mendes - and with this as precedent might have gotten away with it, but you didn't. Good on ya.
Clear and insightful analysis
They are grasping at straws because that guy is a nobody. And this is the only way he can make money.
Yet he won a pay to get award called a Grammy.
Amazing video, I continue to be surprised by your work.
Not "a jury". AN AMERICAN JURY. There is a rather distinct difference.
Only in the minds of the ego inflated and self-important is there a difference
Exactly. Only Americans can have a president that lies about using prostitution, to which they turn a blind eye and then is swayed by Christian standards to choose how to penalize musicians. Basically, it’s the country of double standards. 👎🏼 🇺🇸
Our 9th circuit court threw the Flame/Perry suit out just recently, thank Gawd.
I think the law suit shouldn't count as a law suit . the songs are different .
Flashing up the Art of Noise example made me smile. Moments in Love is still in my "Chill" playlist to this day. :)
The heading of this video uses the phrase “a travesty for” which clearly plagiarises an essay I wrote in 1962,which contained the identical phrase. You will be hearing from my lawyers.😉
I've studied basic intellectual property law in the US. A lot of these claims are ridiculous, like this one, the Stairway to Heaven suit. Thankfully, any precedent set in the cases only holds in the US. One thing I learned is that copyrights are limited to the country they are filed in. So a US artist has no standing to bring a copyright claim against someone residing in another country, unless the artist has also registered the work in that specific country.
Another thing I have found is that often the quality of one's legal representation has more influence on the outcome of a case than the merits of their arguments. In this light, I'm surprised Flame can afford attorneys that can keep up with Perry's legal team.
I remember the good old days when conflicts between musicians were ended with knives
Martin Wängelin Now now...not Christian...or maybe...
Copyright law is clear: only melody and lyrics are copyrightable.
However, solicitors over the last 25 years have increasingly superseded written law with their own subjective whims. I'm still steamed that Elastica settled out of court for a riff that sounded like Wire's 3 Girl Rhumba. That marked the beginning of the end of commons sense in copyright law.
This is outrageous. So wrong. We need a songwriter crowd source defense fund.
Good argument
Serious bonus points for the extensive reference section
Ok,
Maybe I’m just out of touch BUT I thought copyright was about melody.
More than 5 sequential notes is a no-no, everything else goes.
Hard to listen to the radio and not hear the proverbial four chord song (6-4-1-5 progression), the same old drops, same hooks, etc.
It just boggles my mind that this went through. I’ve heard both songs, I wouldn’t put them even in the same category.
Thanks for another great presentation, love your channel !!!
It's not a question of musical parameters or justice, it is a sign of our institutions being overtaken by religious extremist agenda.
😑 Why are you fear-mongering?
very well done in presenting this. and you can tell very easily that these songs are different not sure how you can sue a person when with how easily you where able to show how different these songs are this should have been cut and dry and this should not have even ended up in court.
You plagiarized my book as you used "the" equally often.
JP dJ Well put.
Using "the" exactly the same number of times would actually be quite the coincidence though... :D
@@KrumpusPlunk - how dare you with your krampus punk response, turning humor into seriousness. That's no coincidence.
The worst part about all this is that I want to be able to just ignore it and write whatever music I want, but that's not really possible. I don't think any sane musician would claim that what they do is 100% original, it's all based on years and years of culture and influences. It feels amazing to make music which is my own expression of musical ideas I've been exposed to all my life. I don't intentionally copy anyone, but I enjoy feeling like I'm responding to my favorite musicians. I enjoy feeling connected to the music that's come before me. I wish musicians didn't have to worry so much about proving we came up with everything ourselves.
Play metal nobody will sue you, no money in it! lol
Interesting statement, yet there is some truth in this. Although, there are bands that make a good living (i.e. the Metallica's, Black Sabbath's, Ozzy's etc...). It is really embraced to have some similar styles with personal flair mixed in.... at least within hard rock and metal. Folks speak clearly on who inspired and heavily influenced their sound. Hell I do! and it is a large range of styles. It speaks volumes on the type of people and mindsets that are in those areas. It's very similar to Blues, Classic Rock, OLD school hip hop, alt rock and other similar genres of music that don't have a massive team or ghost writers writing the music for an artist to "be the face" of the said entity. The artist entity that makes a company .... marketing .... radio ... massive sales. The more exposure ... money... and hands in the cookie jar.... = similar mess as this lawsuit. The other genres are not typically massive money makers like pop tunes.... so clearly this is one of the factors that stem these lawsuits.
Ask Iron maiden about that.
@@bparker111665 I'll see em in 6 hours ill let ya know
rjmcmooseknuckle I'm surprised there's any money in any music these days. Who still buys a record/ an MP3?
Right now copyright law falls apart with regards to music and plagerism as multiple different Computer Science programs have created complete catalogues of all 5 note combinations and have started working on rythmic derivations and minor variations on them.
If a song is 999 hours long, but contains every copyrightable verse, it all of a sudden becomes impossible to ever make a copyright for a song. Luckily for artists this case was tossed out, however since the music exists in sheet form now, you can simply play it yourself (simply hahah) and you now have a copyrighted recording that every single song ever would violate, and you would violate against every single song....
This is an awesome thought experiment, but also a real problem -- someone sufficiently motivated could reproduce this and publish it and they would have the same argument as the developers of the AI that did this had. Only the court would have no choice but to rule in their favor, or create new precident.
We need new laws.
I have no idea who this Flame guy is, but he probably ended up with about 47 bucks. What a colossal waste of time, money, and resources, not to mention the ripple effect this may have on musicians in general. Jackass.
Nice vid Mary. Thx for the info.
chris mackey Blame Katy Perry’s horrendous lawyer, where it really belongs.
How can you not know who Flame is? He won a Grammy!!!!!!!! You must be lying, there's no way you don't know who he is. Flame's lawyer said so.
(I'd never heard of him before this either).
I listened to the two versions and have to agree there is no copy write issue here. oddly enough as thin as this is, if member serves me the stairway to heaven case vs Spirit lost, even though that really is easily recognizable as plagiarism. just goes to show it's not about right or wrong, it's about who has the best lawyer.
It's just lazy people using the legal system to get as much undeserved money as possible.
It will be interesting if this gets to the point where few are bold enough to actually put any music out there and who and however any money is being made by "the industry" at this point dwindles enough they pull back on writing checks to lawyers.
Spot on Mary. Christian Henson's comment on this also came out today. Ms. Perry, appeal!
haha, there’s definitely satanic imagery in the video and lyrics
HolographicSweater
haha i agree, i imagine the judge watching some conspiracy videos on youtube, going deep down the rabbit hole of the illuminati and the egiptian roots of occultism haha, hey but in the end i stand by *music* and dont agree with the veredict, you can't own a scale or note..
The HolographicSweater What, Katy's or Flame's???