This was the most honest interview I have seen reference AP and watch brands in general. I have been a long time client of AP and I mean first one purchased back in 2006. Quite frankly they don’t give a dam about client retention. I know so many people who have been given ceramic perpetual calendar after buying just one other watch so with very little history. I know people who get three to four watches a year but old long term clients who desire certain models don’t get a looking or a call. It is a disgrace how they treat clients and soon enough they will fall from grace as bad news spread ten times more than good.
This is just a matter of supply and demand. Poor customer service is everywhere at luxury places, problem is people. I've had my fair share of issues with service all over the world, but yes, we live in an imperfect system. I understand AP can't make everyone happy, but for me personally their watches are the best, so I'll just wait until it's my time.
Visited the AP store in Harrods in London. Very rude and disrespectful SA who "greeted" me. Went across the aisle and bought a Lange 1. The service in the Lange boutique was on a different level. I am so done with AP 🖕
The service in Harrods has become particularly poor in recent years - Rolex and AP being the prime suspects. Mere meters across the hall at JLC and ALS, as you’ve mentioned there is a world of difference
Very Knowledgable, well spoken & insightful collector ! Such a great interview, could hear this guy keep talking for so much longer!!! Can't wait for the second part.
Fully agree with the observations. I had 3 APs in the last 5 years and all sold it. I knew about the issues that AP chronos have but wanted to experience having one as esthetically they look damn good! After 1 week already the minutes subdial start to fail. I immediately brought it back to the dealer and got my money back. Never again an AP chrono in my life! Got a Patek chrono nowadays (5170), by faaaaar superior! The only AP I had for almost 5 years and was very happy with was the Dual Time. The movement is from JLC so I knew it was trustworthy and good. Never had any issues with it! If you consider buying an AP RO just stick to the time & date complication, anything more complicated you can generally expect troubles in the future. As for the boutique experience, not great at all. Hardly any pieces you can see in the flesh and the sales person is not very interested to show you either. Imagine you have to build up a spent history with such people..nah, I will take my $100k I want to spent on a watch somewhere else where I am appreciated and people are more passionate to sell you that watch..
@@watchesinsingapore reselling limited editions of 88 for such a popular brand is going to get you black listed by any brand. for every royal oak sold there is at least 100 people waiting in line for it, more so for such a limited edition. why would they sell to someone who is going to profit off it instead of collecting it? AP has many issues but the blacklisting is the least of it
Problem is because AP have production of 40.000 pices on year…they are focus on real clients..not of flipers and grey sellers …now is problem to give 100.000eu for AP but it’s not problem when you made profit on AP +100.000eu and more …who is this man in AP that he must get everithing what he can sell for bigger profit…you must respect anather people who want to buy AP and wear him all life…
Late summer this year I went to AP house in New York, and they were unreal friendly. The SA was super kind and showed us a ton of pieces and made our day. He genuinely was having fun bringing over tray after tray of watches to check out and try on. He mentioned AP is trying hard to change their image of being sort of "gatekeeper" types, and I think they did a good job at least at that location. Their google reviews are top notch too, so if you're even in NYC, it's worth checking them out. I showed up unannounced with no appointment, or any history with AP.
I’m only angry on AP funky limited editions..but AP is n1.. if AP hadn't hired Gerald Genta to make a sports watch ,PP nautulis wouldn't exist.. AP royal oak was declared the best design in the 20th century, a watch that defeated the quartz crisis, and they showed that steel on AP is more expensive than gold on other manufactories… To me, PP Nautulis looks like an old TV…beautiful is only travel time chronograph… Nautilus jumped in price because people realized they were paying too much for the RM marketing brand.. AP is also the only manufactory owned by the founder's family from the Holy Trinity…AP is n1..most beautiful luxury watch!
My personal experience. I have a blue 15400 and an OR. Firstly, the former is ALWAYS off. It barely could register correct time. I have sent it in for servicing several times and every single time they tell me it is magnetised. None of my watches sit on any winder so the AP must have an internal magnet. Interestingly none of my other watches sitting right next to it ever got "magnetised". Another instance was similar to Nop's, terrible customer service that left me with much embarrassment. The last straw was this particular sales person who would rather play with his phone than engage me in a conversation when I was looking for a diver - any diver. Never in my two decades of watch collecting have I been so upset with a brand. Never again. Thanks for bringing this up.
My experience in the AP House was very different from what's been commented here. AP House Bangkok (I'm a local.) Has one of the BEST customer assistance and overall service. They are extremely nice and I can feel that they genuinely care about their customers.
AP boutique has been among my worst customer experience ever, I do live in Geneva, sales associate was rude and so arrogant that I almost laught before telling him that in fact I was making over 10 times the money he was making then left for good, I ended up buying a Vacheron Constantin Overseas and customer experience was really very special
Really a big fan of VC. Always under the radar, yet true watch lovers know the art of their products. Service is good and everyone’s humble. I just got my hands on the open work perpetual calendar Overseas and I am very happy about.
Walked by Bucherer in Geneva today. Pricing for a regular GP at over 15K is just nuts. Same everywhere, like TAG. I started around 2007, preowned. The watch market is unsustainable. As for AP attitude, I have heard regularly it is synonymous to putting your finger in your back throat.
Girard Perregaux is much much bether than Tag Heuer …GP made everithing inhouse,they also made movements for others manufacture’s..producition is small,and watch is very quality! Golden age for GP will come in next 2years ! For me GP is like Zenith,JLC,Piaget.. …don't trust the watch dealers too much, their aim is to give you another brand or a watch for which they don't have a solution instead of AP royal oak or offshore..
AP and many other Swiss brands need to be careful of losing loyal customers. I’ve owned 5 APs in my life. I still have 3 of them. But I have moved on to GP because when I was getting married,my in-laws wanted to get a watch as a wedding present and I asked AP for a 16202. Long story short, after interviews and such, I was told “cannot”. So I was cool, things have changed. And now, I have stopped buying ANY production watches. I only look at neo vintage (not vintage) models from GP and Minerva. Stuff from the 1990’s. No need to suck up to any ADs and consider “spend history” and such. And the neo-vintage era had such magnificent watches and often they are so much cheaper than production watches. Collector engagement is so important. I don’t many fancy dinner and such. I mean education GTG over pizza and such. What many Swiss watch brands don’t realize is that we collectors value what our peers say about the brand. No amount of direct brand fancy market can compete with what our fellow collectors say about the brand. Also many new collectors have become lazy. They don’t realize that collecting is 30 % research, 40% trying on fellow collectors watches over meet ups, and only 30% buying. With c24 and such gaining strength daily, we no longer have to rely on ADs. Anyway, just my humble thoughts ☀️🙏🏻
@@watchesinsingapore i actually respect how careful AP is with their brand protection. The trouble is that when’s real collector like myself wants one, I already bought 5 and still had 4 in my collection (after 15 years), for my wedding no less, then this is where AP may want to “retune” their allocation priorities to look beyond spend history and such.
@@marcn8750you don’t get too many compliments with a neo vintage unless they into it too. Buying AP, Rolexes etc are also big life accomplishments, you did well in life kind of achievement awards
I enjoyed the episode but one point of improvement, maybe lower the gain of the accompanying music, it’s tad loud and I really want to hear your conversations more clearly.
Nice to see Nop! I've had the pleasure of meeting with him in the past and yes, his love for AP is infectious. My journey into AP started towards 2011 and back then I collected 2x pieces from the 15300 reference, one ST and the other an OR. During the time that I had them, I too had issues. The 15300 needed servicing and repair on more than one occasion. During one trip, I took my Steel AP to the flagship boutique in Geneva and they also performed a repair/service, but I also recall back then many on the forums claiming the movement reference had known issues. It also randomly stopped working once (ceased to run, and the crown felt like it was binding), and since I live in Sri Lanka, this meant flying into Singapore each time to get to the (closest) service centre. Since then my tastes gravitated towards Patek and Rolex more, and so far I've yet to have any serious issues with either manufacture; my most recent PP being a 5170G from the ION boutique, and a RG 36mm DayDate on President bracelet. The level of service and support from the Geneva Master Time team at Wheelock is an example to everyone else, and it is another reason I find myself more partial to considering another PP down the road. Edit: Nop makes an excellent point re. that we shouldn't feel "grateful" that brands like AP 'take the time' to even meet us as lowly customers. One time I connected with my usual contact at AP (at their Liyat tower boutique) and I wanted to look at a Royal Oak Chrono. I was going to buy this on sight, no questions asked, but the store manager wanted me to "wire transfer" funds in advance of my even seeing the watch. Honestly, this just killed AP for me. I feel more comfortable with PP in general, because I haven't had any bad experiences and conversing with them over the years, you immediately get a sense that they have a sense of respect for their customers. It's not the money transaction alone that drives them and this is a stark comparison with AP Singapore.
@@watchesinsingapore This only happened to me a decent while back (since 2016). What's strange is my AP contact at the start even sent press materials (brochures) etc. via airmail. However closer to 2019 when SG/HK stock was pretty limited already, they started to take a "Simlim square style negotiation tactic". They also missed out on a sale in 2019 as I embarked from SG aboard the Queen Mary II to HK on a week's voyage (the greatest extent my sea-legs would take me!) and I was desperately trying to find stock - ether AP and Patek. (Scroll down for further AP antics, but PP won). I'm not sure what directed this cash-grab approach, especially when dealing with a (repeated) past customer and I wholly expressed my intention to take it on the spot. Back to the Royal Oak - it's really bitter sweet for me now. When I had the 15300ST, I absolutely loved the watch. But at the same time AP as a brand started making strange moves, like pandering to Hollywood, and like their boutique attitude taking on this super "rich snob" level of arrogance. This was well beyond obnoxious. The psychology of it is pretty crazy too, but I suppose we as customers are also very much to blame. I suppose we've fed the frenzy, and from a business perspective, we - their clients - are just sales on a balance sheet. It's really a shame as I would have liked to get back to introducing a few APs back into my collection - but I think for now, this chapter is closed for me. Thanks!
@@bsodmike Thanks for sharing! I suppose this is what happens when your demand is so strong. No hesitation in treating existing customers poorly when you have a fresh bag waiting to come in.
PP 😂😂😂 one Italian collector came to familly Stern and ask 3 Nautulis with Olive green dial ,Mr. Stern give him 2nautulis Olive green dial and discontinued nautulis blue dial..this are profiters not collectors…😂😂😂
Twice now I’ve sold watches that had unpleasant buying experiences attached to them. The brands have to understand that those of us who love watches and have some connections we always have options. The difference between a luxury experience and plain vanilla consumer experience is the quality of the service and their desire to keep you as a customer. Compare the experience of buying a watch at Lange to buying something at AP
I have been following Nop for a long time on social media, so I was excited for this episode to hear what happened to his AP journey. This episode was kind of a let down. I thought there would be more transparency like with sunnyboy’s EWC video. Nop is clearly holding back, only talking mainly about the code and perpetual that he didn’t buy from boutique. Let’s talk jumbo and skeleton. Yes, the brand should not have a say, but I am sure they wanted to sell to true collectors. Nop didn’t share, but I am sure he sold his allocations at a good margin, which is also fair. His money after all. But being salty after being caught for selling the watches after a short period of time, isn’t who I thought he was as a collector. Settle the dispute. List down your allocations, state the time before you sold. Let us see how long you held the watches and if the blacklist is justified. 1 year I short honestly. 2-3 years is fine.
There's definitely a lot more stories, some which he may be comfortable sharing publicly, some of which he may not be. Regardless, I only had 90mins to film the podcast and shoot the watches, so I tried to keep things short in order to discuss other topics (Bvlgari, Parmigiani, his own brand, etc.). Who knows, perhaps he'll be willing to do another session in the future that deep dives into his AP horror stories. If that's something you'd want to see, let us know.
I'm one of those clients who had a relationship with AP, who after I gifted my son a RO and he sold it afterwards was treated like shit, even though I kept mine...
I sent in my 14790ST military dial for servicing… my wife wanted to pay via her card for miles, but they told me that only the registered owner of the watch must pay for it. I was stunned by this crap rule. I love my watch, but I have pushed AP to the bottom of the rank when it comes to my favourite brands because of this.
Went to the AP boutique at MBS Singapore a few days ago at around 815pm. The first thing the SA did when I went in was to look at his watch as if he is rushing to close shop. Then when I wanted to register my interest for a model, he didn’t even bother to check or verify my details on the card he told me to complete. It’s like I have to beg him to take my money? Haha. Wont go back to AP again.
Thank you for this podcast! I never got treated that bad, arrogant and like a piece of shit, having already 4 pieces from Pre Boutique Ära… Changed AP Boutique 2 times and contacted customer service without any change. For me the chapter is closed as well. Already sold 3 out of 4 of my APs. There are so many other fantastic brands…
The whole luxury industry start to treat their customers as foolish,like Hermes Chanel,if you want to quota bags you need buy lots of garbage from the store to have a chance to be offered.Same like luxury watches market too,like Rolex or AP.😢
I used to laugh about people talking about AP movements being more problematic than hublot movements, well, not so sure right now, some of the higher end hublot chronos use zenith movement.
A 20 plus k watch is far from a necessity and when someone decides to spend that kind of money on a luxury good, the company should be thankful and go out of their way to treat their customers right. A unnecessary purchase such as a high end watch should accompany great after care service as well as a great buying experience.
Funny part is that AP "Sales assistant" who cant even afford to buy a link of the watch that their selling acts like they own the botique and customers who can pay thier salary double or even triple wants them to lick their arse. Funny world indeed.
I don’t see any value in AP watches. It’s mostly hype. The movement sounds outdated by a few decades. The designs are repetitive and the engineering on them is non existent. They are just stainless steel watches sold with a huge premium. Not worth it. Better go for a VC or a Patek. A Langa even
Really enjoying your podcasts with the watch collectors. It gives a consumer perspective to the watch collection journey which I think a lot of people can relate to... I must say, You are doing an awesome job hosting these podcasts... Keep up the good work.. 😍🙏🏽🙌🏽
Tudor is not a bad choice. Availability not as bad as rolex or ap. It's good enough for jay chou or Beckham, it's good enough for most of us. A watch doesn't bring anything material to anyone's table nor define who u are.
They are paid to endorse for the brands they don’t really wear Tudor . Don’t believe, google them and their recent photos and the watches they wear (apart from those sponsored events) 😂😂😂
@Ash-kj6zm yeah, I'm aware of the endorsement, I think those watches looks good on them👍 or rather they look great without watches anyway. Not like you will not know them without a Rolex or AP. Point is a watch doesn't define who u are. No need to pursue them like it's the next best thing. If you are worthy of living with such brands, they will come to you.
You got to look at what led the hype, it was Rolex, then Patek, AP and VC. Things will fall in the same reverse order. VC Overseas has fallen, next is AP and they have problems because AP is a one trick pony.
VC produce only 20.000watches on year..soon will be 50th anniversary of overseas ..and Overseas will in future present Equation of Time and Twin beat perpetual..+ VC have the same rank of collectors like Hennry Graves ex PP..
I heard some horrific stories about AP's QC and problems with their chronograph movements from a reputabale and trustful seller. I couldn't believe what I was told. Of course, owners pay for the servece regardless of the guarantee period. All I can say is: do not make your life complicated ! Avoid complicationas in watches !
They doing in-house sale is a mistake, AP sales staff r salaried & I don’t see much enthusiasm for them to close a deal. ADs are more hungry & they embrace customer networking.
Wanted to buy AP but now watches at the boutique , went to VC and from that day stopped buying APs , better finishing , better quality , much much better experience
Anyway personally I think AP is a one trick pony riding on the Royal Oak. Code 11.59 is a disastrous flop. Lots of people dumping the AP now since there are many Microbrands doing better for a fraction of the prices. No one will pay AP prices anymore. You've been warned!
"I look forward to comments from salty AP fanboys" LOL! my quick input: sold all of mine for pretty much exactly all the reasons Nop mentions. Far better watches, variety, value, service and quality from Vacheron and Patek in the AP price range.
I disagree, watches above 100k should not be held onto for the market to correct itself. I think the market has corrected and will continue to get closer to msrp over the years
Hell yea , your money your choice ! No point In begging these brands . You do you that’s all that matters . Oh man especially love the recap back to old days with forums SWX was a gem for lurking around to find great pick ups , those were good days , totally not a fan of current uppety kinds these brands “namely those same 2-3” good to hear sentiments shared from a sensible collector .
First! I guess I'm not the only crazy guy to wonder why AP service was so bad when I brought in my 26300st for a possible rust on the bracelet pins.😂 no it didn't get fixed, but eventually I'd have to get it fixed using an external craftsman
I greatly appreciated the video content, however, the background music was very disruptive. It might be better to choose a less intrusive score or reduce its volume to accentuate the interview, rather than detract from it. I would prefer it without the background "music/noise" that is very annoying. Thanks for your efforts!
Is AP even listening?? Product quality in today’s technologically super-advanced world, product quality or even design per se, can NEVER sustain differentiation. The essential differentiator will always be customer experience. The rule that all businesses should heed is this: people like people who like them. Love your customers & your customers will live you in return - & (over time) become your biggest fans AND ambassadors..
I know the boutique in Capri Island, south Italy they dont let me go in because i'm poor but i've seen many many VIP getting out the shop very happy after wasting 100k each. So they are not rude you need to be rich to be allowed.
Bought 2 pieces within two months costing more than $70k in 2020....till now still waiting for the one piece that I wanted back then...zero news even after many calls to the customer service person that kind of serve me.
I recently went for an interview with AP for a role as a salesperson. The manager of the store told me why AP is the way it is. They mentioned that 1. No customer is above AP even if they have millions of dollars in the bank to spend, if they wanted a certain piece there are 100’s of people who are also willing to spend the same amount of money x 3. The reason they have to be so picky is so they can make sure you are a true AP patriot and not someone that’s going to flip their watch after 5-10 years. 2. AP and their customers are always at the same level. This has to be established from the start. As mentioned above no customers are above AP. Just a mutual respect just like buying a Ferrari. 3. AP makes roughly 50 thousand watches compared to Rolex 1 million + watches a year. So do the math. Do they want flippers or keepers?
I like that..I am the poorest owner of an AP watch in the history of the AP manufacture since 1875..I worked 8,000 hours to buy myself an AP royal oak offshore,black themes (H series,stainless steel)...it is a lucky watch for me..H the series was only produced for one year...the last year of the iconic design..a true AP
I've only liked 2 AP's But they are such a blend watch company period their pieces aren't special when compared to the money you can spend on so many better watches. Go with Breguet, Lange, Omega, Vacheron, or Zenith.
Visited AP house in Zurich to be told i couldnt even dream of getting a RO if i didnt at least buy a CODE... Followed by being told "but we dont want you to buy a watch you dont like" 🤦🏻♂️
There is no reason climbing higher than Lange or JLC. JLC provided movements for AP and Patek. The only difference is that AP and Patek use luxurious metals and stuff and their finish is extra in order to sustain the status of something immaculate looking, but in terms of quality of their movements, JLC does not back off, same for Lange. The only other reason you might like AP or Patek is for the deisng and if you REALLY have to get the legendary Jenta design of the AP Royal Oak or Patek Nautilus (even though it is ugly as sin for me). That's it. If we gonna talk extremes - FP Journe When we go to Lange or JLC... Oh, man... So many cool watches. Zeitwerk, Reverso, Polaris and so on. They don't have the... "prestige" of the so called "holy trinity" (hilarious), but they make beast of a quality watches. And of course you will always have the backbone provided by Omega and Rolex with the latter trying to be something they are not and in my opinion should have prices similar to Omega.
If a nightclub is super full and you want to get it no matter what, is not as easy as when the place has low attendance… this guy doesn’t understand the demand is just too high nobody has watches
Buying AP watches from the boutique is a joke. They just play the customers and ultimately sell to gray market for profit or the ones they select/like. Very disappointing.
Bought my first AP 43 mm, the same exact one on the video where it shows it has loosened. This was my first AP as I was obsessed with owning one of them. Well the winding on the watch didnt work with in the first 5-6 months. Now it randomly stops at any given time. So my experience with QC first hand is awful. How do you spend 43k eu. And get something that brakes within a year. AP should get their sh1t together imo.
I’ve always had great experiences with AP and can understand that the long wait for an allocation is expected. However in the mean time I am driven to explore other Brands and spending money elsewhere simply because it’s been 4 years and just have to scratch the itch😂
Problem is because AP have production of 40.000 pices on year…they are focus on real clients..not of flipers and grey sellers …now is problem to give 100.000eu for AP but it’s not problem when you made profit on AP +100.000eu and more …who is this man in AP that he must get everithing what he can sell for bigger profit…you must respect anather people who want to buy AP and wear him all life…
No one can tell you what to do with your watches??? Of course, but AP not going to give a shit about your sales since they have others to support their brand. 😂
This was the most honest interview I have seen reference AP and watch brands in general. I have been a long time client of AP and I mean first one purchased back in 2006. Quite frankly they don’t give a dam about client retention. I know so many people who have been given ceramic perpetual calendar after buying just one other watch so with very little history. I know people who get three to four watches a year but old long term clients who desire certain models don’t get a looking or a call. It is a disgrace how they treat clients and soon enough they will fall from grace as bad news spread ten times more than good.
There are many on youtube like this, collectors swearing off AP. Nothing new.
This is just a matter of supply and demand. Poor customer service is everywhere at luxury places, problem is people. I've had my fair share of issues with service all over the world, but yes, we live in an imperfect system. I understand AP can't make everyone happy, but for me personally their watches are the best, so I'll just wait until it's my time.
Bruh please next time no background music like in the elevator or hotel restrooms. Your video content is dope 10/10 love it. Cheers
it really got to you eh LOL
Visited the AP store in Harrods in London. Very rude and disrespectful SA who "greeted" me. Went across the aisle and bought a Lange 1. The service in the Lange boutique was on a different level. I am so done with AP 🖕
Fully agree! Lange is perfect!
The service in Harrods has become particularly poor in recent years - Rolex and AP being the prime suspects. Mere meters across the hall at JLC and ALS, as you’ve mentioned there is a world of difference
you bought a Lange 1 out of spite?
So you bought a 50k Lange 1 to spite AP?
Ok.
@@BobbyTable no. But AP made the decision easier.
Very Knowledgable, well spoken & insightful collector ! Such a great interview, could hear this guy keep talking for so much longer!!! Can't wait for the second part.
Glad you enjoyed it! 4 parts in total, with the second coming this week
Fully agree with the observations. I had 3 APs in the last 5 years and all sold it. I knew about the issues that AP chronos have but wanted to experience having one as esthetically they look damn good! After 1 week already the minutes subdial start to fail. I immediately brought it back to the dealer and got my money back. Never again an AP chrono in my life! Got a Patek chrono nowadays (5170), by faaaaar superior! The only AP I had for almost 5 years and was very happy with was the Dual Time. The movement is from JLC so I knew it was trustworthy and good. Never had any issues with it! If you consider buying an AP RO just stick to the time & date complication, anything more complicated you can generally expect troubles in the future. As for the boutique experience, not great at all. Hardly any pieces you can see in the flesh and the sales person is not very interested to show you either. Imagine you have to build up a spent history with such people..nah, I will take my $100k I want to spent on a watch somewhere else where I am appreciated and people are more passionate to sell you that watch..
I also testify to AP worst costumer service ever, London boutique is the worst.
You hit a spot on point on their customer service and the unrealistic expectations they have of their customers.
Gotta bring the watches to the grave unless you want to be blacklisted 💀😂
@@watchesinsingapore reselling limited editions of 88 for such a popular brand is going to get you black listed by any brand. for every royal oak sold there is at least 100 people waiting in line for it, more so for such a limited edition. why would they sell to someone who is going to profit off it instead of collecting it? AP has many issues but the blacklisting is the least of it
Problem is because AP have production of 40.000 pices on year…they are focus on real clients..not of flipers and grey sellers …now is problem to give 100.000eu for AP but it’s not problem when you made profit on AP +100.000eu and more …who is this man in AP that he must get everithing what he can sell for bigger profit…you must respect anather people who want to buy AP and wear him all life…
This is happening across all brands. Even smaller brands are becoming very cocky when comes to pricing. Walk. No business for them let them starve
ow they will, the recession will make sure of that
Late summer this year I went to AP house in New York, and they were unreal friendly. The SA was super kind and showed us a ton of pieces and made our day. He genuinely was having fun bringing over tray after tray of watches to check out and try on. He mentioned AP is trying hard to change their image of being sort of "gatekeeper" types, and I think they did a good job at least at that location. Their google reviews are top notch too, so if you're even in NYC, it's worth checking them out. I showed up unannounced with no appointment, or any history with AP.
Same experience in Japan, it is sad to see what is happening with how AP treats its customers.
Sad to see what the brand has become
I’m only angry on AP funky limited editions..but AP is n1.. if AP hadn't hired Gerald Genta to make a sports watch ,PP nautulis wouldn't exist.. AP royal oak was declared the best design in the 20th century, a watch that defeated the quartz crisis, and they showed that steel on AP is more expensive than gold on other manufactories… To me, PP Nautulis looks like an old TV…beautiful is only travel time chronograph… Nautilus jumped in price because people realized they were paying too much for the RM marketing brand.. AP is also the only manufactory owned by the founder's family from the Holy Trinity…AP is n1..most beautiful luxury watch!
REALLY?? with the Japanese staff??? Because Japan is known for its first class customer service and treatment even at the lowest level of retail sales
@@saijinkai That is what making it even sadder. The Tokyo boutique manager was moved to Nagoya as well, things has gone down the hill since
My personal experience. I have a blue 15400 and an OR. Firstly, the former is ALWAYS off. It barely could register correct time. I have sent it in for servicing several times and every single time they tell me it is magnetised. None of my watches sit on any winder so the AP must have an internal magnet. Interestingly none of my other watches sitting right next to it ever got "magnetised". Another instance was similar to Nop's, terrible customer service that left me with much embarrassment. The last straw was this particular sales person who would rather play with his phone than engage me in a conversation when I was looking for a diver - any diver. Never in my two decades of watch collecting have I been so upset with a brand. Never again. Thanks for bringing this up.
My experience in the AP House was very different from what's been commented here. AP House Bangkok (I'm a local.) Has one of the BEST customer assistance and overall service. They are extremely nice and I can feel that they genuinely care about their customers.
AP boutique has been among my worst customer experience ever, I do live in Geneva, sales associate was rude and so arrogant that I almost laught before telling him that in fact I was making over 10 times the money he was making then left for good, I ended up buying a Vacheron Constantin Overseas and customer experience was really very special
Vacheron customer service is amazing. The best in my experience.
Really a big fan of VC. Always under the radar, yet true watch lovers know the art of their products. Service is good and everyone’s humble. I just got my hands on the open work perpetual calendar Overseas and I am very happy about.
@@jasonlau3634 big piece, congrats!
Lmao the 10x comment completely disqualifies you anyway. Sales rep did a great job filtering you out
@@joachim5080yes, its so important to "filter out" people who don't take abuse from shop assistants... wait, what? 😂
Walked by Bucherer in Geneva today. Pricing for a regular GP at over 15K is just nuts. Same everywhere, like TAG. I started around 2007, preowned. The watch market is unsustainable. As for AP attitude, I have heard regularly it is synonymous to putting your finger in your back throat.
At least it's only a finger
Girard Perregaux is much much bether than Tag Heuer …GP made everithing inhouse,they also made movements for others manufacture’s..producition is small,and watch is very quality! Golden age for GP will come in next 2years ! For me GP is like Zenith,JLC,Piaget..
…don't trust the watch dealers too much, their aim is to give you another brand or a watch for which they don't have a solution instead of AP royal oak or offshore..
AP and many other Swiss brands need to be careful of losing loyal customers.
I’ve owned 5 APs in my life. I still have 3 of them.
But I have moved on to GP because when I was getting married,my in-laws wanted to get a watch as a wedding present and I asked AP for a 16202. Long story short, after interviews and such, I was told “cannot”.
So I was cool, things have changed.
And now, I have stopped buying ANY production watches. I only look at neo vintage (not vintage) models from GP and Minerva. Stuff from the 1990’s. No need to suck up to any ADs and consider “spend history” and such. And the neo-vintage era had such magnificent watches and often they are so much cheaper than production watches.
Collector engagement is so important. I don’t many fancy dinner and such. I mean education GTG over pizza and such. What many Swiss watch brands don’t realize is that we collectors value what our peers say about the brand. No amount of direct brand fancy market can compete with what our fellow collectors say about the brand.
Also many new collectors have become lazy. They don’t realize that collecting is 30 % research, 40% trying on fellow collectors watches over meet ups, and only 30% buying. With c24 and such gaining strength daily, we no longer have to rely on ADs.
Anyway, just my humble thoughts ☀️🙏🏻
Thanks for sharing! Can't believe that you'd even need to interview for a watch allocation
@@watchesinsingapore i actually respect how careful AP is with their brand protection.
The trouble is that when’s real collector like myself wants one, I already bought 5 and still had 4 in my collection (after 15 years), for my wedding no less, then this is where AP may want to “retune” their allocation priorities to look beyond spend history and such.
@@marcn8750you don’t get too many compliments with a neo vintage unless they into it too. Buying AP, Rolexes etc are also big life accomplishments, you did well in life kind of achievement awards
GP is greate choise for weding gift… Girard-Perregaux it bears the name of a watchmaker and his wife..👍 I’m big fan of AP !
@@felixmarks9352 I’m a fan of both AP and GP 🥂
I enjoyed the episode but one point of improvement, maybe lower the gain of the accompanying music, it’s tad loud and I really want to hear your conversations more clearly.
Wow, this was a great episode and guest. I'm glad I found this channel!
I had a bad customer experience the first time at AP but it was good the 2nd and 3rd time I went back. At the end of the day, I love AP watches
Nice to see Nop! I've had the pleasure of meeting with him in the past and yes, his love for AP is infectious.
My journey into AP started towards 2011 and back then I collected 2x pieces from the 15300 reference, one ST and the other an OR. During the time that I had them, I too had issues. The 15300 needed servicing and repair on more than one occasion. During one trip, I took my Steel AP to the flagship boutique in Geneva and they also performed a repair/service, but I also recall back then many on the forums claiming the movement reference had known issues.
It also randomly stopped working once (ceased to run, and the crown felt like it was binding), and since I live in Sri Lanka, this meant flying into Singapore each time to get to the (closest) service centre.
Since then my tastes gravitated towards Patek and Rolex more, and so far I've yet to have any serious issues with either manufacture; my most recent PP being a 5170G from the ION boutique, and a RG 36mm DayDate on President bracelet. The level of service and support from the Geneva Master Time team at Wheelock is an example to everyone else, and it is another reason I find myself more partial to considering another PP down the road.
Edit: Nop makes an excellent point re. that we shouldn't feel "grateful" that brands like AP 'take the time' to even meet us as lowly customers. One time I connected with my usual contact at AP (at their Liyat tower boutique) and I wanted to look at a Royal Oak Chrono. I was going to buy this on sight, no questions asked, but the store manager wanted me to "wire transfer" funds in advance of my even seeing the watch. Honestly, this just killed AP for me.
I feel more comfortable with PP in general, because I haven't had any bad experiences and conversing with them over the years, you immediately get a sense that they have a sense of respect for their customers. It's not the money transaction alone that drives them and this is a stark comparison with AP Singapore.
That sucks to hear! Glad you've moved on to better things
@@watchesinsingapore This only happened to me a decent while back (since 2016). What's strange is my AP contact at the start even sent press materials (brochures) etc. via airmail.
However closer to 2019 when SG/HK stock was pretty limited already, they started to take a "Simlim square style negotiation tactic".
They also missed out on a sale in 2019 as I embarked from SG aboard the Queen Mary II to HK on a week's voyage (the greatest extent my sea-legs would take me!) and I was desperately trying to find stock - ether AP and Patek. (Scroll down for further AP antics, but PP won).
I'm not sure what directed this cash-grab approach, especially when dealing with a (repeated) past customer and I wholly expressed my intention to take it on the spot.
Back to the Royal Oak - it's really bitter sweet for me now. When I had the 15300ST, I absolutely loved the watch. But at the same time AP as a brand started making strange moves, like pandering to Hollywood, and like their boutique attitude taking on this super "rich snob" level of arrogance. This was well beyond obnoxious.
The psychology of it is pretty crazy too, but I suppose we as customers are also very much to blame. I suppose we've fed the frenzy, and from a business perspective, we - their clients - are just sales on a balance sheet.
It's really a shame as I would have liked to get back to introducing a few APs back into my collection - but I think for now, this chapter is closed for me. Thanks!
@@bsodmike Thanks for sharing! I suppose this is what happens when your demand is so strong. No hesitation in treating existing customers poorly when you have a fresh bag waiting to come in.
I had the same experience from the same branch. Ridiculous.
PP 😂😂😂 one Italian collector came to familly Stern and ask 3 Nautulis with Olive green dial ,Mr. Stern give him 2nautulis Olive green dial and discontinued nautulis blue dial..this are profiters not collectors…😂😂😂
Excellent video and glad that Nop called AP out. Not sure if they’ll care but more people should know before they sink their money into the brand.
he complains because he can no longer make a profit on AP watches because he is on the black list… I am the first against such profiteers.
I bought an AP royal oak, within a few months the top crown just popped out. Hearing you talking about it just make sense about the QC of this watch.
Yikes, hope the repair was smooth
Twice now I’ve sold watches that had unpleasant buying experiences attached to them. The brands have to understand that those of us who love watches and have some connections we always have options.
The difference between a luxury experience and plain vanilla consumer experience is the quality of the service and their desire to keep you as a customer. Compare the experience of buying a watch at Lange to buying something at AP
Exactly, thats why I discarded 2 of my RO.. Glad that I do not need to deal w AP anymore.
I have been following Nop for a long time on social media, so I was excited for this episode to hear what happened to his AP journey.
This episode was kind of a let down. I thought there would be more transparency like with sunnyboy’s EWC video. Nop is clearly holding back, only talking mainly about the code and perpetual that he didn’t buy from boutique. Let’s talk jumbo and skeleton.
Yes, the brand should not have a say, but I am sure they wanted to sell to true collectors. Nop didn’t share, but I am sure he sold his allocations at a good margin, which is also fair. His money after all. But being salty after being caught for selling the watches after a short period of time, isn’t who I thought he was as a collector.
Settle the dispute. List down your allocations, state the time before you sold. Let us see how long you held the watches and if the blacklist is justified.
1 year I short honestly. 2-3 years is fine.
There's definitely a lot more stories, some which he may be comfortable sharing publicly, some of which he may not be. Regardless, I only had 90mins to film the podcast and shoot the watches, so I tried to keep things short in order to discuss other topics (Bvlgari, Parmigiani, his own brand, etc.).
Who knows, perhaps he'll be willing to do another session in the future that deep dives into his AP horror stories. If that's something you'd want to see, let us know.
Discerning viewer. You’re very right on the monetary gain aspect.
@@watchesinsingaporedefinitely would like to see. A video like Sunnyboy’s but in Singapore context will really educate collectors both new and old.
Sure thing! Thanks for taking the time to comment
So my question would be, if he sold at a loss such as the code, is it the same as selling with a profit?
Same with Rolex. Rude sales people so went next door to omega and sales rep was very nice and bought a ceramic Seamaster
AP customer service is 👎🏻. They need need to seriously clean house with their arrogant and self serving sales staff and management.
I'm one of those clients who had a relationship with AP, who after I gifted my son a RO and he sold it afterwards was treated like shit, even though I kept mine...
The same think will be in PP …
I sent in my 14790ST military dial for servicing… my wife wanted to pay via her card for miles, but they told me that only the registered owner of the watch must pay for it. I was stunned by this crap rule. I love my watch, but I have pushed AP to the bottom of the rank when it comes to my favourite brands because of this.
Sad to hear, doesn't make any sense!
that's good for safety.. in case of theft, resale or repair, only you can bring/repair your AP!
@@felixmarks9352so basically you cant sell it used after buying it. Lol
Happy to wait it out; I agree (retail) prices are quite silly these days.
Market prices are dropping a lot too. Could be a good time to buy grey as well and not deal with any nonsense
AP watches are not worth paying list prices....
Why you dont buy Corum than?
AP is worth more than money because it is an investment, prestige and reputation... there will always be buyers...I have big respect for AP ..
Went to the AP boutique at MBS Singapore a few days ago at around 815pm. The first thing the SA did when I went in was to look at his watch as if he is rushing to close shop.
Then when I wanted to register my interest for a model, he didn’t even bother to check or verify my details on the card he told me to complete.
It’s like I have to beg him to take my money? Haha.
Wont go back to AP again.
Hahaha AP in a nutshell
Singapore people in general are rude so i won't be surprise if the sales associate is way ruder than other countries 😂
Thank you for this podcast! I never got treated that bad, arrogant and like a piece of shit, having already 4 pieces from
Pre Boutique Ära…
Changed AP Boutique 2 times and contacted customer service without any change. For me the chapter is closed as well. Already sold 3 out of 4 of my APs. There are so many other fantastic brands…
Nice interview. Watch dealers are like a messy divorce now. They want half your money, even after the relationship ends!
The whole luxury industry start to treat their customers as foolish,like Hermes Chanel,if you want to quota bags you need buy lots of garbage from the store to have a chance to be offered.Same like luxury watches market too,like Rolex or AP.😢
The winding stem falling off has been a long term issue with AP. Just ppl keep quiet bec they're afraid of resale value going down.
I used to laugh about people talking about AP movements being more problematic than hublot movements, well, not so sure right now, some of the higher end hublot chronos use zenith movement.
Spirit of big Bang use el primero movement…like Daytona from 1988-2000
The experience purchasing a watch vs the watch; can be such a fine line
Went to their store in dallas texas and the sales man was rude and dismissive
so sorry about that. They don't work on commission.
Yes, AP Dallas is horrible
When are we going to get to see the watches on the table and in that box??
In future episodes when they are relevant. There are no APs in that box so no point showing anything in this episode
A 20 plus k watch is far from a necessity and when someone decides to spend that kind of money on a luxury good, the company should be thankful and go out of their way to treat their customers right. A unnecessary purchase such as a high end watch should accompany great after care service as well as a great buying experience.
Sadly these companies are made up of humans, and humans fall into arrogance and hubris easily... VERY easily.
Funny part is that AP "Sales assistant" who cant even afford to buy a link of the watch that their selling acts like they own the botique and customers who can pay thier salary double or even triple wants them to lick their arse. Funny world indeed.
Power trip perhaps
Does anyone know what brand that watch case/box is?
Let me ask him for you
It's an AP box. The boutique returns the watch to you in that box after servicing.
@@cslim8978 Thank you!
I don’t see any value in AP watches. It’s mostly hype. The movement sounds outdated by a few decades. The designs are repetitive and the engineering on them is non existent. They are just stainless steel watches sold with a huge premium. Not worth it. Better go for a VC or a Patek. A Langa even
AP staffs is so arrogant n unfriendly...
This is the same case in Hong Kong. I stop buying AP entirely. AP customer service is atrocious.
Two well spoken and cultured hunks, discussing watches.
Nop is indeed a hunk! I'm just a fat asian kid haha. Appreciate you taking the time to watch
Really enjoying your podcasts with the watch collectors. It gives a consumer perspective to the watch collection journey which I think a lot of people can relate to... I must say, You are doing an awesome job hosting these podcasts... Keep up the good work.. 😍🙏🏽🙌🏽
Glad you enjoy it!
AP sounds like a curse.
AP stands for Always Problem
@@watchesinsingapore Agreed Perfectly.
Tudor is not a bad choice. Availability not as bad as rolex or ap. It's good enough for jay chou or Beckham, it's good enough for most of us. A watch doesn't bring anything material to anyone's table nor define who u are.
They are paid to endorse for the brands they don’t really wear Tudor . Don’t believe, google them and their recent photos and the watches they wear (apart from those sponsored events) 😂😂😂
@Ash-kj6zm yeah, I'm aware of the endorsement, I think those watches looks good on them👍 or rather they look great without watches anyway. Not like you will not know them without a Rolex or AP. Point is a watch doesn't define who u are. No need to pursue them like it's the next best thing. If you are worthy of living with such brands, they will come to you.
You got to look at what led the hype, it was Rolex, then Patek, AP and VC. Things will fall in the same reverse order. VC Overseas has fallen, next is AP and they have problems because AP is a one trick pony.
VC produce only 20.000watches on year..soon will be 50th anniversary of overseas ..and Overseas will in future present Equation of Time and Twin beat perpetual..+ VC have the same rank of collectors like Hennry Graves ex PP..
Great video!!! Nop is rocking as usual 💥💥
Thanks for watching!
I heard some horrific stories about AP's QC and problems with their chronograph movements from a reputabale and trustful seller. I couldn't believe what I was told. Of course, owners pay for the servece regardless of the guarantee period. All I can say is: do not make your life complicated ! Avoid complicationas in watches !
They doing in-house sale is a mistake, AP sales staff r salaried & I don’t see much enthusiasm for them to close a deal. ADs are more hungry & they embrace customer networking.
Wanted to buy AP but now watches at the boutique , went to VC and from that day stopped buying APs , better finishing , better quality , much much better experience
Great to hear! I've had great experiences with VC so far
Please show us the watches on the table
There will be shots of them in future parts of this episode when it fits. No APs were in that box so didn't show the watches in this video.
Good guest and good questions
Anyway personally I think AP is a one trick pony riding on the Royal Oak. Code 11.59 is a disastrous flop. Lots of people dumping the AP now since there are many Microbrands doing better for a fraction of the prices. No one will pay AP prices anymore. You've been warned!
"I look forward to comments from salty AP fanboys" LOL!
my quick input: sold all of mine for pretty much exactly all the reasons Nop mentions. Far better watches, variety, value, service and quality from Vacheron and Patek in the AP price range.
Couldn't agree more!
I disagree, watches above 100k should not be held onto for the market to correct itself.
I think the market has corrected and will continue to get closer to msrp over the years
Hell yea , your money your choice ! No point In begging these brands . You do you that’s all that matters . Oh man especially love the recap back to old days with forums SWX was a gem for lurking around to find great pick ups , those were good days , totally not a fan of current uppety kinds these brands “namely those same 2-3” good to hear sentiments shared from a sensible collector .
First! I guess I'm not the only crazy guy to wonder why AP service was so bad when I brought in my 26300st for a possible rust on the bracelet pins.😂 no it didn't get fixed, but eventually I'd have to get it fixed using an external craftsman
Hope you get it fixed soon!
Luv aps but dont support the brand due to this and some of their watches seem to be questionable quality for a holy trinity brand
I greatly appreciated the video content, however, the background music was very disruptive. It might be better to choose a less intrusive score or reduce its volume to accentuate the interview, rather than detract from it. I would prefer it without the background "music/noise" that is very annoying. Thanks for your efforts!
Thanks for the feedback!
i agree
Is AP even listening?? Product quality in today’s technologically super-advanced world, product quality or even design per se, can NEVER sustain differentiation. The essential differentiator will always be customer experience. The rule that all businesses should heed is this: people like people who like them. Love your customers & your customers will live you in return - & (over time) become your biggest fans AND ambassadors..
with the premiums they charge ap should never have qc issues
I think every brand is trying to outdo each other in bad service and attitude. 😂😂😂😂😂
The best competition
😂😂😂😂😂….. there should be an award for that.
Ferarri: Challenge accepted.
I know the boutique in Capri Island, south Italy they dont let me go in because i'm poor but i've seen many many VIP getting out the shop very happy after wasting 100k each.
So they are not rude you need to be rich to be allowed.
Bought 2 pieces within two months costing more than $70k in 2020....till now still waiting for the one piece that I wanted back then...zero news even after many calls to the customer service person that kind of serve me.
Liked & subscribed before I even watched a video.
Don’t let me down please and always tell the truth.
Definitely, thank you for the support
I recently went for an interview with AP for a role as a salesperson. The manager of the store told me why AP is the way it is. They mentioned that 1. No customer is above AP even if they have millions of dollars in the bank to spend, if they wanted a certain piece there are 100’s of people who are also willing to spend the same amount of money x 3. The reason they have to be so picky is so they can make sure you are a true AP patriot and not someone that’s going to flip their watch after 5-10 years.
2. AP and their customers are always at the same level. This has to be established from the start. As mentioned above no customers are above AP. Just a mutual respect just like buying a Ferrari.
3. AP makes roughly 50 thousand watches compared to Rolex 1 million + watches a year. So do the math. Do they want flippers or keepers?
That manager is either delusional or full of shit
I like that..I am the poorest owner of an AP watch in the history of the AP manufacture since 1875..I worked 8,000 hours to buy myself an AP royal oak offshore,black themes (H series,stainless steel)...it is a lucky watch for me..H the series was only produced for one year...the last year of the iconic design..a true AP
Theyre overrated
its one thing to make great watches but keeping your customers happy is something else... they are king and you are not
well spoken gent!
Wow it's my podcast idol! Thanks for watching bro
Nice info, but pls remove the audio loop. Gives me a headache.
Sorry for that! Will do
Unbearable background track, stayed 2 minutes
@@whosbehindthedoor8788 Thanks for watching!
I've only liked 2 AP's But they are such a blend watch company period their pieces aren't special when compared to the money you can spend on so many better watches. Go with Breguet, Lange, Omega, Vacheron, or Zenith.
Sunny Wangs experience with AP made me look at them differently.
Indeed, and props to him for making a video talking about it!
Would be better without the music.
Visited AP house in Zurich to be told i couldnt even dream of getting a RO if i didnt at least buy a CODE...
Followed by being told "but we dont want you to buy a watch you dont like" 🤦🏻♂️
Well what do you want AP to do? Flood the market with millions of royal oaks..? I am sure you wouldn’t want them then anymore anyway
Has to do with the hype
There is no reason climbing higher than Lange or JLC.
JLC provided movements for AP and Patek. The only difference is that AP and Patek use luxurious metals and stuff and their finish is extra in order to sustain the status of something immaculate looking, but in terms of quality of their movements, JLC does not back off, same for Lange. The only other reason you might like AP or Patek is for the deisng and if you REALLY have to get the legendary Jenta design of the AP Royal Oak or Patek Nautilus (even though it is ugly as sin for me). That's it. If we gonna talk extremes - FP Journe
When we go to Lange or JLC... Oh, man... So many cool watches. Zeitwerk, Reverso, Polaris and so on. They don't have the... "prestige" of the so called "holy trinity" (hilarious), but they make beast of a quality watches.
And of course you will always have the backbone provided by Omega and Rolex with the latter trying to be something they are not and in my opinion should have prices similar to Omega.
Très intéressant
If a nightclub is super full and you want to get it no matter what, is not as easy as when the place has low attendance… this guy doesn’t understand the demand is just too high nobody has watches
Very interesting to listen. But the music. Please tone it down.
Will do, thanks for the feedback
True ap has terrible service … travelled all the way to Barcelona twice for nothing !
AP Royal Joke
😂
whats this brother job or career?
Singapore Prime Minister
Buying AP watches from the boutique is a joke. They just play the customers and ultimately sell to gray market for profit or the ones they select/like. Very disappointing.
Rolex have been playing that game before all this covid era reseller BS.
Nice mic stand! 🤣🤣🤣
Haha someone finally noticed it
Bought my first AP 43 mm, the same exact one on the video where it shows it has loosened. This was my first AP as I was obsessed with owning one of them. Well the winding on the watch didnt work with in the first 5-6 months. Now it randomly stops at any given time. So my experience with QC first hand is awful. How do you spend 43k eu. And get something that brakes within a year. AP should get their sh1t together imo.
Not very confidence inspiring 🫠
take Rolex.. if any upgrade go PP
skip AP.. bad customer service
AP 📉
I’ve always had great experiences with AP and can understand that the long wait for an allocation is expected. However in the mean time I am driven to explore other Brands and spending money elsewhere simply because it’s been 4 years and just have to scratch the itch😂
The fact that it's been 4 years since you last got an allocation sounds like a very fun and pleasant experience 🙂
AP watches are garbage quality....had a lot of issues with all my AP watches over the years....never touching that bad quality brand again
Buy corum and lose 80% of money 👌
AP has lost so many lifers, simply because of an inflated ego... so sad. Rolex will always take care of you lol
Famous friend, wei?
I believe he's referring to someone else for this one.
AP = always problem
Con-artists.
Problem is because AP have production of 40.000 pices on year…they are focus on real clients..not of flipers and grey sellers …now is problem to give 100.000eu for AP but it’s not problem when you made profit on AP +100.000eu and more …who is this man in AP that he must get everithing what he can sell for bigger profit…you must respect anather people who want to buy AP and wear him all life…
No one can tell you what to do with your watches??? Of course, but AP not going to give a shit about your sales since they have others to support their brand. 😂
Haha ridiculous, sheep
Having heard all of these stories, perhaps I should just scoot over to VC instead 😂
You definitely should! 1000% better in service and customer satisfaction
@@andreashaltner are they great for first time customers? It's a dream of mine to one day own a VC watch and I think i am close to it.