I just want to tell you how much appreciate you and your work. I love this game and i don't have friends playing it anymore. They are all gone. Listening to your videos feels like I'm talking to a long-time friend with whom I've raided and played in the past. Its weird lol. Thanks for making content.
I don't even play anymore but still love to tune into Hiru's videos. Feel exactly the same as you. Just like talking to a friend about some neat stuff in a fantasy world.
The Kobold analogy reminded me of the lemurs in Madagascar. They are still scared of birds to this day even though the eagle that used to hunt them has been extinct for hundreds of years.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the thorns in Durotar, Barrens and Jaedenar. That would've fit the vines well. Also drawing parallels between OGs and dragon aspects is interesting. Malygos/Yogg (magic), Deathwing/Y'Shaarj (most powerful, both caused a cataclysm), Alex/vines god (power over life), Ysera/C'thun (sleep), Noz/N'zoth (schemes spanning millennia)
Those thorns already have a lore behind them. They sprouted from the places where the Blood of Agamaggan was left. He was a beastial demigod that fought the Burning Legion during the War of the Ancients. He also had the appearance of a huge Boar.
There was a Cata PTR questline in Silithus that had C'Thun coming back. People's heads were turning into tentacles!! Shame they didn't follow through on that idea yet. Here's hoping a future xpac has the OG's returning in force.
Hearthstone lore overall is amazing, and it was be a dream to be able to explore some of their stories in wow. A gang of evil folk try to take dalaran, players go to a dalaran forever in battle and can choose a side gaining different benefits and transmogs depending on who they help. with the good guys losing and dalaran being stolen At the end dalaran is taken and assaults uldum, people are able to choose to stay or swap sides, and assist in defending the land or raise the plague lords. The bad guys lose but escape with the plaguelord of undeath After that dragonblight comes under attack, allowing you to raise and customize your own dragon mount, colors, armor, and while in dragonblight it even has abilities allowing you to fight on its back. Yet again people choose a side, defending the temple, or assaulting it. with both sides losing as the bad guys win but galakrond refuses to obey. All leading to a raid against the undead corpse of galakrond, everyone working together to stop the threat. Or even a timewalking raid of ICC but with tons of legendary heroes who have been raised as death knights, the final fight being arthas and jaina, both as the lich king and queen.
@@hirumaredx all this would be possible if Alliance vs Horde wouldn't really matter anymore and we'd be freed from the shackles... Or as optional content but I highly doubt Blizzard has enough devs to create 2 teams - one for the main story big stuff and one for the side story fun stuff
For a long time my biggest hope for a wow expansion was a “The Black Empire” expansion.. one where Yogg’Saron, C’thun and N’zoth we’re all released and controlling their respective continents. With some all out H.P love craft insanity systems that aren’t specifically mechanical systems, but also Aesthetic and Musically just like Bloodborne. Wow or an mmo in general has soooo much potential to produce a massive scaled H.P Lovecraftian world. Shit it didn’t even need to be Azeroth that turns into it, all we needed was for Nyalotha to be an actual friggen Zone or whole other world, not just a raid. Blizzard really fuked us with that one
Vividly remember reading somewhere that Old gods cannot die because they're not living things. They're from another plane of existence and what we see in-game are just fractures of their manifestation. We haven't killed any of them, we merely "pushed them back". So it's entirely possible that we'll see them or hear of them again pretty soon.
We axed N'zoth with a titan relic inside of Ny'alotha. Nothing in the BfA narrative suggests we got a diet N'zoth, and the same cannot be said of any other Old God we fight in the game. Moreover, traditional Warcraft lore says the only way to kill something eldritch, be it elementals or demons, and perhaps Old Gods too, is to traverse into their realm to do it. Hence another suggestion that N'zoth may be gone gone. The one missing link is that the exact nature of Ny'alotha is never really contextualised into Warcraft lore. The lore of Visions plus the raid at 8.3 suggests to me that Ny'alotha is a realm of "dreams" not unlike the Emerald Dream, but instead representing the vision N'zoth had for the way the world should be in the reborn Black Empire. It has this otherworldly feel (we access it through either a portal or by drinking Wrathion's Black Goo Ayahuasca) and there is a strong suggestion that it is neither the Black Empire nor real. However, it may also be like a pocket dimension, like the the Elemental Planes that were created by the titans to contain the elemental lords, or like Mar'dum which Sargie created to contain all the demons he killed in the Great Dark. So I don't want Blibsnarl to tell me that he isn't dead because at one point the titans figured killing the old gods would also destroy the World Soul of Azeroth. I want this question to be in the open. Frankly, people complain about the characterisation of N'zoth in BfA, but I thought it was quite well-made. I don't want all my questions to be answered inequivocally by rushed lines of quest text or dialogue. I want enough information to get a glimpse of the world, but no definitive answers that shut down all the fun geek-outs of discussing and speculating upon these finer points in the lore.
4:51 There is actually such an entity in Cthulhu mythos and (without revealing their full name because of four very specific letters it contains which could flag an offensive language detector here or something) they would basically be to the Old Gods what Alexstrasza is to dragonkind; their official title is "The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young" who is also supposedly benevolent towards mortals by nature (or at least more so than the other Old Gods would be, anyway) so they would more likely be the leader of an allied faction if players were to somehow go into the actual Void realm in the future or something
Soggoth the Slitherer is in Darkshore and is dead but Soggoth was revived in Battle for Azeroth. In Hearthstone with Its flavor text reads: "Don't tell Soggoth, but in the future he gets totally owned by the Master's Glaive and his skull becomes a tourist attraction."
There is also an old god in new darkphathom deeps. Before Aku'mai an old god whispers to you. The interesting part about it is that the voice of that god is nowhere near as similar as the other we got. Actually sounds like a cthulu like being
Again on Xal'atath, Deus Ex Machina are sudden and random plot contrivances that take place to dramatically shift a narrative. Xal'atath's importance and her role in the resolution of the plot was not random and not sudden, quite the contrary - her importance to the Old Gods was established from the get-go, and her on architecting her return to the center of events is also very deliberate and set in 8.1.5. Hence, it's not a deus ex machina by any stretch of the definition, it was 100% designed. You can think it's bad storytelling, but that's opinion and has no bearing on the fact that Xal'atath has enough characterisation that her role in the plot does not feel to fantastic, stretched or shoehorned
The fifth old god shown in chronicles is probably Xalatath's old body. She was devoured by the others early on and hints at this with the stuff she whispers. Further, y'saarj likely ate the most of her, followed by yogg saron, explaining why those two are the most powerful.
Something about your voice you’re made for content lol I found your yugiho channel like 3 months ago and it made me find dual links lmao I’m bad but I’m 29 so it’s super nostalgic xD
When Y'Shaarj was ripped the well of eternity was created its essentially like an open wound on Azeroth. Following the events of the war of the ancients is the shattering.
the truth is the vagueness is what kept it interesting since the new writers don't even know what to write about the unknown parts(specially the old gods)and every time they try to flesh it out they just make it way worse and way more stupid to the point that some of us aren't interested in the lore anymore Nyalotha raid was just weak, it was on the level of super mario writing, they shouldn't have touched it if they have no idea what to do with it.
The whole monkey thing is basically learning by model and bad consequences it can happen. It's I think the fundamental principle of how all religions came to be. Model learning trying to explain knowledge long forgotten. Nobody remembers why this rule was made but its still being kept. There must be so many laws worldwide that exist because of that principle and are long long no longer needed. I think its a bug in nature itself. I don't know if it applies to mammals only.. you require at least a nervous system with memory function for this bug to occur but the troubleshooting is quite easy and we should start applying it more often.
Couple years ago, i had a idea on the new expansion, after third defeat of the old god i started to think about how "weak" they seems to be, and after killing N'zoth, i was almost sure that this could actually happen We heard so many future whispers about what is coming, i mean, how can N'zoth not have seen his death? That got me thinking, he must have wanted to die for something to happen, We have so many main characters dead already and nostalgia from Shadowlands only cheer people up, now how to milk the nostalgia and satisfy loremasters + give perfect content? ... Now thats hard and easy at the same time, a Story how the 6th old god revealed himself on Azeroth, corrupting everyone and making life to grow impossible, the only chance for survival we have, is now to go back in time to the land of Old Kalimdor, and defeat all 6 Old gods at their Prime. with the lore twist defeating Galakrond (may be wrong cuz i dont really know the timelines between galakrond and old gods there) Why is it hard and easy? hard its because you have to make a continent good enough to ressemble our Azeroth what we know now, and easy .. because everyone by now knows how the game looks, its almost done just by itself. The only - for is i can think of is, We will be once again "Heroes,Champions,TimeTravelers,Granny's boys"
I like the idea that Nzoth is dead more because of the Heart of Azeroth detethering the Old God in a way that allowed the Knifu to kill him that he did not account for, because Afterall the Old Gods are cocky assholes that see too many paths forward, that when it came time for the important moment, he didn't pick the right path to follow. The other two Old Gods though I think are totally alive, they just got the Old God equivalent of a concussion from their avatars being defeated and can and maybe will come back at some point once they've slept it off.
The title had me thinking about the last boss in the blackfathom deeps, Akuma, because I think they reference it as an old God when you're running to him
Y'shraaj was the one who buried himself so deep into Azeroth. But look at the Chronicle picture. The end of Y'shraaj is shown with eyes, looking towards the unknown creature. There is something hidden inside Azeroth.
If he old gods are outside of the cycle of death, doesn’t it seem odd we’ve gone from and old god expansion to one about the cycle of death, and Mooney trying to break that cycle…
i do remember that in 3th warcraft guide there was an note that are 5 old gods, but then (don't remember where is exactly) blizz confirm 4 only (+1 fake). So?
For all we know, Zovaal could unleash a secret 5th-6th Old God on Azeroth against us while he tries to obtain the power of the First Ones himself. However, the illustrator of the page also said he just put that there cause why not, which also makes sense. But idk…
All the old gods have been dealt with in one patch, nzoth actually got the better side of the coin, cause he got multiple patches, and was also the only old god to be the final boss of an expansion.
Also it is never specified that old gods can die. My theory is that only death could free them from thier prisons so they planned to die. We essentially set them free unto the cosmos, from whence the came.
One of my fav videos so far! I’ve always loved the Old Gods and their lore. Also I really like how you ended this video with the possibility of The Old Gods still being out there and still alive, plus whatever song you were putting at your “you cannot kill thoughts” segment really gave me hope and felt epic
This inspires the idea of a great way to end WoW, and launch WoW 2. Since we have knowledge of space, and have spacefaring races at our side, we could move on to a new story. WorldS of Warcraft. You and your crew venture from world to world to rid planets of old god grasps. Freeing the people and enlisting them in an intergalactic war against these ancient fiends.
There's also that part in ardenweald where the former night warrior I forgot his name who is a stag now. When you ask them about their past they mention they became a night warrior to save their world from a dark foreign evil god which spawned minions very close to the faceless ones.
That bit about the vines...could it be related to the Emerald Dream in any way? The Emerald Dream was corrupted by the Old Gods, but did they ever confirm which Old God was primarily responsible for that corruption?
Yogg Sharon. Part of his essences touch the Emerald Dream thus creating the Emerald Nightmare. Is like Azeroth is in a continue state of dream, that realm of dream it was the Ysera "domain". Yogg Sharon corrupt this real and turn part of it into a Nighmare real, his domain.
@@maxotak I read somewhere in the wiki that Yogg opened the Emerald Dream to the Old Gods but it was N'Zoth was behind the corrupting events like Xavius - though this could just be a placeholder explanation or an attempt to make N'Zoth stpry-relevant to players as I think it was stated during early BfA
Bruh..what if, and I'm just going wild with my imagination and is a stretch but, Teldrassil is linked to or IS Xal'atath? 5th Old God with roots = the great tree Digging into skulls = the countless dead Night Elves when Sylvanas burned it
Especially since the titans themselves were incapable of killing them without destroying the planet, and even when they killed Yasharaj he still maintained influence on the mortal plane through the Sha and other shit I don’t think Old Gods are these one and done deals, I think they definitely aren’t gone away entirely. I think in the post 8.3 dialogue Alleria mentions that while Nzoths big voice is gone, there’s now a ton of smaller voices filling the void, which might mean that Nzoth just had babies and we will have to contend with that at a later date
@@Marqrk I really think that was just kinda saying that smaller gods are basically trying to fill the void. The same thing was said by Malfurion after killing Rag.
N'Zoth was only a reference in a random whisper in a rare toy in Cata. For 10 years, a decade, the community alone build interest in this character, Blizzard didn't needed to do anything to hype him up. A writer's dream! And BfA put him in a dumpster and lighted it on fire, for the sake of some First Ones we never heard of before. And they have the nerve to ask why we don't care for BfA and Shadowlands!!!
TRUE! N'Zoth was the communitie's character. So many videos and forums/reddit posts over the decade and Blizzard was blind to it all and just gave him a (bad)Patch
When did someone from Blizzard ask "why we don't care for BfA and Shadowlands!!!" like did a employee of note actual ask such a dumb question to the community?
@@AsprosOfAzeroth So they didn't actually ask why we don't like it. You just made it up so your complaint has more weight to it. I don't disagree with your statement. But pretending someone said something to suit your narrative better is not great.
What if we got shadowlands so they have time to pull off the next expansion "N'Zoth won and Shadowlands was just a fever dream, all hail the Black Empire!" (or maybe something catchier.. a man can dream...
The Old Gods are my favorite part of Warcraft lore. Their Lovecraftian darkness, and mystery lend the lore a gravity that it would otherwise be missing.
I think wow lost its touch during Wrath when they merged with activision. Ulduar was the last legit raid made by old blizzard. Although I did not play mists or BFA its like Ysharaj and N'Zoth were beyond the scopes of the new writing and design team. I mean when I went into AQ 40 I legit thought I was going insane when I heard C'thun randomly whispering to me.
Yes fighting beings like old gods used to fell so grand with us needing help from the keepers to defeat yog But now it's just find sword find old god kill old god done
Tbh I used to feel the same, though dragons always beat them out by a little, but honestly they've been used so stupidly that I have a hard time really liking them. They're a huge part of the massive writing issue blizzard has with *corruption* basically making every significant or important character either mind controlled or insane. It's an especially bad issue with dragons, where seemingly every damn important dragon dies because of insanity or corruption. I'd love them alot more *if* they were actually handled intelligently and nkt just used as a writers cop-out. But sadly, blizzard doesn't seem capable of that.
Would be even better if Blizzard gave at least SOME official reference to Lovecraft himself for building their whole main plot around his inventions... - even though they changed a few letters in their names around. It's a matter of respect. A lot of modern folks use his inventions and profit from it.
With this hidden old god being so reminiscent of Cthulhu specifically it does lead to interesting possibilities. Cthulhu was not just any old god. He was relatively weak but also the high priest of the old gods. He could logically be used to bring back the other ones.
@PatrickMcCurry You seem to be mistaking and confusing both the names and the categories and the titles for the various beings of the lovecraft mythos.....and then making the logical error of assuming that there was some correlation between the appearance or powers or roles or history of Cthulhu and C'thun. They are totally different. Howard Lovecraft would never have been upset that Metzen was a fan and made the name reference...because Lovecraft very much enjoyed having other authors write things to happen in his fictional worlds. And Metzen did not disappoint; but C'thun is not a direct copy of anything in the mythos....nor does the term "Old God" translate the same. Lovecraft wrote Cthulhu as a "Great Old One". But that is not to be confused with the category of (Other Gods/Outer Gods) ...which exist outside the normal universe. And it certainly is not meant to be confused with the category of (Elder Gods) which were sometimes benevolent and helpful to mortals once in a while. And it certainly isn't meant to be confused with the category of (Elder Things, Elder Ones, Old Ones) which are just supposed to have been aliens that visited Earth a billion years ago and tampered with the life that would eventually result in Humans; and which were enemies of Cthulhu's category.
I would interpret the “leafs” a on the cathululu old god as actually looking more like the “Flipper” ends of a giant squid. Love the story though man, keep up the great work.
I think the tiny detail that many have missed, the Cthulhu looking one, is nothing more than just an homage to H.P Lovecraft. Since the old gods and the void and all that, is taken directly from the works of Lovecraft. That being said, it can also be used as a seed for introducing yet another old god.
Note on the candle thing. You said most of the main world doesn't need to worry about the caves. Isn't there still a cave where dwarfs heavily warn not to enter one they collapse the entrance of? Forgot the zone, probably burning steps? Dont know if they are still there
There as some people like me that have given up on playing WoW (for now) yet have no intentions of giving up following the lore/story. We have been burned too many times to continue to have faith in the WoW. God forbid they decide to reintroduce Arthas during this expansion (Something I would have welcomed a year ago). One of the last remaining "unsundered" characters for me.
I stopped playing wow back in february after 11 years and i must admit that it really hurts me the way the game has gone into, hope it gets back on its feet soon because all the memories we all have playing this game can't be erased
Justice for N'zoth!!! I'm still not over how Blizz butchered him in Bfa. I really really hope they will bring him back, maybe along with all of the old Gods :)
This video got me to think about it, but maybe it might be possible we were helping Nzoth with the miracle of childbirth. If I’m remembering it right Alleria mentions in the post raid dialogue that while Nzoth’s voice is now gone, there’s a ton of new voices echoing through the void, so it’s possible that old gods can reproduce through their own willing deaths, which is why he made so many choices that just kind of let us into Nyalotha and to his true body with the one weapon that could kill him. This kind of fits with the other Old Gods too because he haven’t *really* killed them in the way we did Nzoth. For both Cthun and Yogg, they were kinda just poking their heads out of their time out box and we just bonk them til they go back down, and Yasharraj was literally ripped from the planet and destroyed by Titans, so it’s likely that he wasn’t prepared to split on death and as a result only left the sha behind rather than full on old gods.
Some Guildmates and I were discussing after our first NZoth kill in BFA, one night. The idea we'd settled upon included main themes that the Old Gods colluded to plant the idea in the mortal heroes' thoughts that they could be killed. If they presented themselves as such they could work in the shadows and still continue their less obvious work without suspicion. It also allows the devs to pinpoint a villain and send adventurers out to kill said villain, resulting in epic raid content. Two birds, one stone. However our theories maintained that the Old Gods we're not dead, at all. We theorized even Yshaarj was alive in a manner of speaking. Given the cosmic nature of their origin we suspected they were more like mushrooms and jellyfish, thinking and willing with their entire bodies rather than a central brain or thinking center; that their origin concept had evolved beyond individual parts and transcended to a higher level. We believe their ability to telepathically communicate and influence at the range of the location of their tendrils in various parts of the world support that idea. So, by presenting a 'head', so to speak, that protrudes from the world they can be 'killed' in order to allow people to forget about them. They do their best work in the shadows, in whispers, in quiet influence. They don't need to be the figure head of their faction so long as their will is delivered to the masses, which they can do through the mass of their tendrils. To note, we specifically believe Yshaarj was heavily damaged, crippled, and incapable of reforming or expanding influence as a result of the assault by the Titans. So much damage was done to the corporeal body at that time we suspect he would be functioning like fragments of an earthworm cut in pieces, able to move and think independently but severely damaged and showing the result of that damage plainly and evidently.
I mean that's the whole deal with the Sha in MOP, right? Yshaarj is alive in some esoteric sense and still causing problems, just in a less focused or organised/intelligent manner.
For the longest time I felt that the powers that influenced the Everbloom on WoD were Old God in origin. As I was immediately reminded of the Flood from Halo. I even pieced together clues in my head that the orcs were developed in a method akin to the curse of flesh. But how, if there were no Old Gods present? I think it was explained in a WoW chronicle, Idk but I like the thought that the Everbloom creatures were a type of Old God we hadn’t seen before.
The everbloom is based on a plant that threatened to consume all of dreanor called the evergrowth. It sprouted sporemounds all over the planet but when Aggramar discovered the planet he destroyed most of it and created Grond the elemental giant to continue his fight. Grond actually broke down into other colossus like magnaron which eventually became ogron, ogres, and orcs. The plant guys in draenor basically want to bring back the evergrowth but don't have the same spores to do so. One such spore actually drops from aggramar when you kill him in the form of a artifact relic.
@@jamestomlin5525 it's out in the middle of the ocean, and has a definite N'zoth like eyeball staring at you. Makes sense since Nzoth is the one who said "I LIKE DEALS". So that one makes perfect sense to me.
5:15 hearthstone players were always confused for that, Blood of the Ancient One, came out of nowhere, the strongest minion in the game (strongest one can get without buffs). 30/30 massive beast that looks different than your average Katraxxi or other Qiraji, too big and serpent like to be a minion
@@Menolith yeah i know why the stats are 30 attack, max HP of heroes, it doesn't matter, what i mentioned is how big this thing is and how different from all the other minions it is. A slitherer style monster but without legs and with many arms instead of tentacles, it's entirely unique
I agree with you. Deathwing, a 12/12, would EASILY be able to kill Rexxar, a hero, with one single swipe or fire breath. Despite that, Rexxar has 30 hp and would easily survive an attack by Deathwing in full force. HP and Attack are just stats. What’s interesting is that there’s nothing else that looks like it, except Y’shaarj’s Hearthstone art.
I agree with what you're saying, however some could say that if the Old Gods, as powerful as they are, are just pawns, a fraction of the void's power? Well damn that makes the void lords all the more terrifying hypothetically
I agree with you, but I also didn’t like that the appearances made canon by Hearthstone look so much like things that already exist. C’thun and Yogg-Saron were strange, writhing masses of flesh unlike anything else, but N’zoth is basically just an enormous octopus/kraken, and Y’shaarj is essentially just a Chinese dragon/sha. I feel like they would’ve looked different it it wasn’t because of Hearthstone. I just wanted a nose and ear old god, damn it.
You had me at “old god”. Wonderful video and delightful information! I’m a sucker for any old god and void stuff. I’m also pleased to see you continuing your work and I will continue to be a fan.
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh N'zoth Ny'alotha wgah'nagl ftagn!" "In his house at Ny'alotha dead N'zoth waits dreaming" "Y'ai 'ng'ngah Yogg'saron h'ee-l'geb f'ai throdog uaaah" (Unknown Meaning)
Originally the works of H.P. Lovecraft. Though i inserted WoW Old God names in place of lovecraft's ones.. First quote is from The Call of Cthulhu (and has a translation) and the second is from... dunwich horror i think. Really great books if you like horror, or are a fan of Old God like things (commonly referred to as cosmic horror) change "N'zoth Ny'alotha" to "Cthulhu R'lyeh" and "yogg'saron" to "yog'sothoth" and you have the original quotes
The old god lore and stories are one of the most interesting, and well conceived stories in Warcraft. The way they infest and corrupt young Azeroth's races and lands. Their ancient battles with the titans and elementals. It's arguably the most original and unique story telling that Warcraft has to offer. Everything after that like the whole orcs vs humans thing is just ripped from Tolkien.
Could the fifth possible old good just be a Xel'naga? I still love the idea that the WarCraft universe and the StarCraft universe are the same but with the planets be very very far away from another.
I appreciate the love for 'Old Gods' that people show in this comment section. But personally, I am tired of fighting against old gods. I like Shadowlands story because it is fresh - our adversary is finally neither old gods nor burning legion
4:43 The Evergrowth? Just like the "void planets" in the skybox during the Star Augur Etraeus fight where if you actually look isn't certainly void infested because the vines enveloping the planet split off unlike any tentacles.
I've been saying since 9.0 that i think there's an old god in shadowlands. I think the forbidden knowledge of the first ones that zovall is seeking contains a way to summon the old god, and it will be the final boss of the expansion. Old god madness explains his desire to reforge the universe. It's already been established that the void has infiltrated the shadowlands, so it makes sense to me
@@lightests would it though? It would just be another completely random lore tidbit that comes out of nowhere and doesn't tie-in with anything or make any sense. It wouldn't fix the issues of the current state of the lore
Surprised you didn't mention 'The Old God Pentagram/Hexagram' theory, it is said that the Old Gods will resurrect at six points forming a Hexagram around Azeroth, the locations are said to be; Northrend - Yogg Saron Darkshore / Ashenvale Tirisfal Glades / Ghostlands Silithus - C'Thun STV Vale of Eternal Blossoms - Y'Shaarj If you visit these locations all will contain; Void, Twilight Hammer or Faceless Ones, etc... Furthermore, each one of these locations have a raid/dungeon; Ulduar, Blackfathom Deeps, ZA, AQ, ZG and Siege of Orgrimmar
Since the "death" of Illidan in TBC and his return as a savior of Azeroth and Jailer of Sargeras, I believe the Old Gods are not dead and can return on future expansions where the devs put some random explanation of why they can't be killed by normal means( ex: rip of from the planet or using a Good looking black dragon with a Dagger to weaken then. ) --> Just like Arthas says in Warcraft 3: "Does anyone stays dead anymore?" About the Old God on Draenor, I don't believe is possibile since Aggramar pass there ages ago and we dont have mention of him fighting old gods( Unless the Genesaurs and botanis are created by one) and usually they corrupt worlds with souls. If that point it's true, then Draenor could had a Old God sometime in past and have a "soul god" just like Azeroth. If not, then the presence of Void in Draenor can be from the corruption that cames from Guldan and years of fel magic. By the way, I love your Lore and theories. Good Job Hirumaredx!
Dranei brought the void to draenor. When 2 of the 3 Naaru ran out of light. The void influenced the orc souls and brought them back as a spirit(Oshungun). Well than Guldan siphoned one of the turned Naaru and used its power when the orcs sieged Karabor. But it was ChoGall who worshipped the void so when they crossed the dark portal the old gods started whisper to him.
I JUST FOUND OUT YOU DO DND STUFF!?!?!? it was autoplaying after i was watching Crit Role and i recognized your voice anywhere ... good shit my dood i appreciate your grit and grind
@@davidrafael1769 Oh is she? i havent read any of the books, haven't even played since legion i just love the lore but i probably shouldn't be speculating lol
Look up giant squids, they have 2 long tentacles that end up in leaf like structure at the end and some tentacles in the game have that tip so it can still be squid related not rly plant base
Speculation. The 5th Old God is Xal'atath. She was killed by the other Old Gods before the arrival of the Titans. Her body is buried deep under the Dragon Isles. A portion of her spirit was inside the dagger (now free) but the vast majority of it slumbers in a pocket dimension that connects the Emerald Dream and Ardenweald. (That's why you can see both plants and skeletons in her artwork at Chronicles) those two connected realms represent the cycle of life and death.
LOL, a Deuce Ex Machina? Deus (Day-Us) is how it's pronounced. But ya, why do they have to make everything a mystery? Just damn decide if they're actually dead or not.
At the Nighthold before the final fight. Alternate Gul'dan states that we (Horde players) will die like our old Warchief. Ahaha... But who cares because in the end Death will consume our world, She will make sure of that. Medivh also tells Khadgar that the Door sometimes must be forced open for the greater good and he must have an open mind. So Legion foreshadows Shadowlands so many times... that you are left wandering is it a plot jole or did everyone know about the Jailer.
I have a theory that the 5th Old God image in Chronicle Vol III is Xal'atath. I theorize that she is basically C'thylla from the Cthulhu mythos, the secret daughter of the great old one. Her purpose in the mythos is to birth Cthulhu when he is inevitably destroyed. Cthylla's is described as looking like a winged octopus with several eyes, and she can change how many appendages she has and the size of them and her wings. Another key thing about Cthylla is that it states she can take on a humanoid form. Xal'atath is connected to N'Zoth is some way that much is pretty clear, she takes on a humanoid form in BfA and she is believed to be an Old God that was not known. My theory is that when N'Zoth lost to Y'shaarj on what is now the Broken Shore he realized he is able to be killed and so he created a sort of "daughter" as a contingency plan for when he does get destroyed by something. This daughter I think is Xal'atath and her purpose is basically to resurrect N'Zoth.
Me, pre Cata era: RP server, NE druid, make up a wild god just to explain her fascination with mushrooms, spore magic, etc. Cata: Proof that said wild god could've had a form of grip on Azeroth's wilderness as a living, elusive form of 'raw nature' similar to an elemental, or a nature-aligned old god-like creature MoP: RP more, come up with Druids of the Spore, connection to Emerald Nightmare, design an actual physical form for it Every xpac afterwards: Me finding more and more little info nuggets and zones that seem to strongly emphasize the powers of said wild god, like Crimson Fen in Gorgrond, the red flora near the EN raid in Legion, the swamps of Nazmir / former jungle of Vol'dun, and so far, the 'cycle' from Ardenweald This video: Shows an image that looks almost exactly like how I personally have envisioned that wild god for years o_o I swear I made that thing up, but Blizz seems to constantly hint that it exists!
![The Maw Quest So Dark, It Was Removed From The Beta - [Unknown Side of WoW]](/img/n.gif)
I just want to tell you how much appreciate you and your work. I love this game and i don't have friends playing it anymore. They are all gone. Listening to your videos feels like I'm talking to a long-time friend with whom I've raided and played in the past. Its weird lol. Thanks for making content.
I second this. There are times that I'll watch Hiru while I'm about to fall asleep because of a sense of comfort in his videos.
I don't even play anymore but still love to tune into Hiru's videos. Feel exactly the same as you. Just like talking to a friend about some neat stuff in a fantasy world.
@@SeeIn2D He is really good at this! glad to see others feel this way. Take care friend!
@@empee418 Right? he is really good. And all the work in his videos, you can see he truly loves the game.
True. Hiru is one of my fav, I always watch his videos before bed. His voice is so calming.
The Kobold analogy reminded me of the lemurs in Madagascar. They are still scared of birds to this day even though the eagle that used to hunt them has been extinct for hundreds of years.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the thorns in Durotar, Barrens and Jaedenar. That would've fit the vines well. Also drawing parallels between OGs and dragon aspects is interesting. Malygos/Yogg (magic), Deathwing/Y'Shaarj (most powerful, both caused a cataclysm), Alex/vines god (power over life), Ysera/C'thun (sleep), Noz/N'zoth (schemes spanning millennia)
Those thorns already have a lore behind them. They sprouted from the places where the Blood of Agamaggan was left. He was a beastial demigod that fought the Burning Legion during the War of the Ancients. He also had the appearance of a huge Boar.
There was a Cata PTR questline in Silithus that had C'Thun coming back. People's heads were turning into tentacles!! Shame they didn't follow through on that idea yet. Here's hoping a future xpac has the OG's returning in force.
I wish i didn't read this comment and played silithus in cata instead, that story sounds awesome! ...if it were followed through with
All I want is Canon Mean Streets of Gadgetzan. They could even use the gangs for different set rewards like convents.
YES! But they should make is optional content in the world and nothing that impacts the main story or rewards anything too important.
Hearthstone lore overall is amazing, and it was be a dream to be able to explore some of their stories in wow.
A gang of evil folk try to take dalaran, players go to a dalaran forever in battle and can choose a side gaining different benefits and transmogs depending on who they help. with the good guys losing and dalaran being stolen
At the end dalaran is taken and assaults uldum, people are able to choose to stay or swap sides, and assist in defending the land or raise the plague lords. The bad guys lose but escape with the plaguelord of undeath
After that dragonblight comes under attack, allowing you to raise and customize your own dragon mount, colors, armor, and while in dragonblight it even has abilities allowing you to fight on its back. Yet again people choose a side, defending the temple, or assaulting it. with both sides losing as the bad guys win but galakrond refuses to obey.
All leading to a raid against the undead corpse of galakrond, everyone working together to stop the threat.
Or even a timewalking raid of ICC but with tons of legendary heroes who have been raised as death knights, the final fight being arthas and jaina, both as the lich king and queen.
@@hirumaredx all this would be possible if Alliance vs Horde wouldn't really matter anymore and we'd be freed from the shackles...
Or as optional content but I highly doubt Blizzard has enough devs to create 2 teams - one for the main story big stuff and one for the side story fun stuff
@@Gebirges personally I’d like all cities to become neutral unless you go in marked for PvP
I dont play wow anymore but i like your videos ♠
I have to say, best choice of music in all of your videos by far.
I literally just did this quest this morning before work. As I drive to work, this is the first video recommended to me as I open TH-cam.
CIA chill 😔
For a long time my biggest hope for a wow expansion was a “The Black Empire” expansion.. one where Yogg’Saron, C’thun and N’zoth we’re all released and controlling their respective continents. With some all out H.P love craft insanity systems that aren’t specifically mechanical systems, but also Aesthetic and Musically just like Bloodborne.
Wow or an mmo in general has soooo much potential to produce a massive scaled H.P Lovecraftian world.
Shit it didn’t even need to be Azeroth that turns into it, all we needed was for Nyalotha to be an actual friggen Zone or whole other world, not just a raid. Blizzard really fuked us with that one
Vividly remember reading somewhere that Old gods cannot die because they're not living things. They're from another plane of existence and what we see in-game are just fractures of their manifestation. We haven't killed any of them, we merely "pushed them back".
So it's entirely possible that we'll see them or hear of them again pretty soon.
We axed N'zoth with a titan relic inside of Ny'alotha. Nothing in the BfA narrative suggests we got a diet N'zoth, and the same cannot be said of any other Old God we fight in the game. Moreover, traditional Warcraft lore says the only way to kill something eldritch, be it elementals or demons, and perhaps Old Gods too, is to traverse into their realm to do it. Hence another suggestion that N'zoth may be gone gone. The one missing link is that the exact nature of Ny'alotha is never really contextualised into Warcraft lore. The lore of Visions plus the raid at 8.3 suggests to me that Ny'alotha is a realm of "dreams" not unlike the Emerald Dream, but instead representing the vision N'zoth had for the way the world should be in the reborn Black Empire. It has this otherworldly feel (we access it through either a portal or by drinking Wrathion's Black Goo Ayahuasca) and there is a strong suggestion that it is neither the Black Empire nor real. However, it may also be like a pocket dimension, like the the Elemental Planes that were created by the titans to contain the elemental lords, or like Mar'dum which Sargie created to contain all the demons he killed in the Great Dark. So I don't want Blibsnarl to tell me that he isn't dead because at one point the titans figured killing the old gods would also destroy the World Soul of Azeroth. I want this question to be in the open.
Frankly, people complain about the characterisation of N'zoth in BfA, but I thought it was quite well-made. I don't want all my questions to be answered inequivocally by rushed lines of quest text or dialogue. I want enough information to get a glimpse of the world, but no definitive answers that shut down all the fun geek-outs of discussing and speculating upon these finer points in the lore.
Is this some way to tell us to not blow out the candles in that choose your own adventure of a kobold cave?
4:51 There is actually such an entity in Cthulhu mythos and (without revealing their full name because of four very specific letters it contains which could flag an offensive language detector here or something) they would basically be to the Old Gods what Alexstrasza is to dragonkind; their official title is "The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young" who is also supposedly benevolent towards mortals by nature (or at least more so than the other Old Gods would be, anyway) so they would more likely be the leader of an allied faction if players were to somehow go into the actual Void realm in the future or something
black blood of the earth is a reference to 'big trouble in little china'
Soggoth the Slitherer is in Darkshore and is dead but Soggoth was revived in Battle for Azeroth. In Hearthstone with Its flavor text reads: "Don't tell Soggoth, but in the future he gets totally owned by the Master's Glaive and his skull becomes a tourist attraction."
There is also an old god in new darkphathom deeps. Before Aku'mai an old god whispers to you. The interesting part about it is that the voice of that god is nowhere near as similar as the other we got. Actually sounds like a cthulu like being
That was N'zoth actually!
Again on Xal'atath, Deus Ex Machina are sudden and random plot contrivances that take place to dramatically shift a narrative. Xal'atath's importance and her role in the resolution of the plot was not random and not sudden, quite the contrary - her importance to the Old Gods was established from the get-go, and her on architecting her return to the center of events is also very deliberate and set in 8.1.5. Hence, it's not a deus ex machina by any stretch of the definition, it was 100% designed. You can think it's bad storytelling, but that's opinion and has no bearing on the fact that Xal'atath has enough characterisation that her role in the plot does not feel to fantastic, stretched or shoehorned
The fifth old god shown in chronicles is probably Xalatath's old body. She was devoured by the others early on and hints at this with the stuff she whispers.
Further, y'saarj likely ate the most of her, followed by yogg saron, explaining why those two are the most powerful.
Something about your voice you’re made for content lol I found your yugiho channel like 3 months ago and it made me find dual links lmao I’m bad but I’m 29 so it’s super nostalgic xD
When Y'Shaarj was ripped the well of eternity was created its essentially like an open wound on Azeroth. Following the events of the war of the ancients is the shattering.
the truth is the vagueness is what kept it interesting since the new writers don't even know what to write about the unknown parts(specially the old gods)and every time they try to flesh it out they just make it way worse and way more stupid to the point that some of us aren't interested in the lore anymore
Nyalotha raid was just weak, it was on the level of super mario writing, they shouldn't have touched it if they have no idea what to do with it.
Love ya work dude!
The whole monkey thing is basically learning by model and bad consequences it can happen.
It's I think the fundamental principle of how all religions came to be. Model learning trying to explain knowledge long forgotten.
Nobody remembers why this rule was made but its still being kept.
There must be so many laws worldwide that exist because of that principle and are long long no longer needed.
I think its a bug in nature itself. I don't know if it applies to mammals only.. you require at least a nervous system with memory function for this bug to occur but the troubleshooting is quite easy and we should start applying it more often.
Couple years ago, i had a idea on the new expansion, after third defeat of the old god i started to think about how "weak" they seems to be, and after killing N'zoth, i was almost sure that this could actually happen
We heard so many future whispers about what is coming, i mean, how can N'zoth not have seen his death? That got me thinking, he must have wanted to die for something to happen, We have so many main characters dead already and nostalgia from Shadowlands only cheer people up, now how to milk the nostalgia and satisfy loremasters + give perfect content? ... Now thats hard and easy at the same time, a Story how the 6th old god revealed himself on Azeroth, corrupting everyone and making life to grow impossible, the only chance for survival we have, is now to go back in time to the land of Old Kalimdor, and defeat all 6 Old gods at their Prime. with the lore twist defeating Galakrond (may be wrong cuz i dont really know the timelines between galakrond and old gods there)
Why is it hard and easy? hard its because you have to make a continent good enough to ressemble our Azeroth what we know now, and easy .. because everyone by now knows how the game looks, its almost done just by itself. The only - for is i can think of is, We will be once again "Heroes,Champions,TimeTravelers,Granny's boys"
I like the idea that Nzoth is dead more because of the Heart of Azeroth detethering the Old God in a way that allowed the Knifu to kill him that he did not account for, because Afterall the Old Gods are cocky assholes that see too many paths forward, that when it came time for the important moment, he didn't pick the right path to follow.
The other two Old Gods though I think are totally alive, they just got the Old God equivalent of a concussion from their avatars being defeated and can and maybe will come back at some point once they've slept it off.
The title had me thinking about the last boss in the blackfathom deeps, Akuma, because I think they reference it as an old God when you're running to him
Akumai*
Y'shraaj was the one who buried himself so deep into Azeroth. But look at the Chronicle picture. The end of Y'shraaj is shown with eyes, looking towards the unknown creature. There is something hidden inside Azeroth.
If he old gods are outside of the cycle of death, doesn’t it seem odd we’ve gone from and old god expansion to one about the cycle of death, and Mooney trying to break that cycle…
The "leaves" on the artwork are not leaves, but flippers.
i do remember that in 3th warcraft guide there was an note that are 5 old gods, but then (don't remember where is exactly) blizz confirm 4 only (+1 fake). So?
For all we know, Zovaal could unleash a secret 5th-6th Old God on Azeroth against us while he tries to obtain the power of the First Ones himself.
However, the illustrator of the page also said he just put that there cause why not, which also makes sense. But idk…
would not be the first 1patch oldgod fight we had lol.
@@Theigzorn Of course not. I mean, look at the last 3 one patch Old Gods we've killed, with N'Zoth being the first full powered one we've defeated.
All the old gods have been dealt with in one patch, nzoth actually got the better side of the coin, cause he got multiple patches, and was also the only old god to be the final boss of an expansion.
@@hirumaredx Holy shit, thank you!
No prob
Also it is never specified that old gods can die. My theory is that only death could free them from thier prisons so they planned to die. We essentially set them free unto the cosmos, from whence the came.
I really enjoy these as a complete WoW outsider
Thanks!
One of my fav videos so far! I’ve always loved the Old Gods and their lore. Also I really like how you ended this video with the possibility of The Old Gods still being out there and still alive, plus whatever song you were putting at your “you cannot kill thoughts” segment really gave me hope and felt epic
This inspires the idea of a great way to end WoW, and launch WoW 2.
Since we have knowledge of space, and have spacefaring races at our side, we could move on to a new story. WorldS of Warcraft.
You and your crew venture from world to world to rid planets of old god grasps. Freeing the people and enlisting them in an intergalactic war against these ancient fiends.
There's also that part in ardenweald where the former night warrior I forgot his name who is a stag now. When you ask them about their past they mention they became a night warrior to save their world from a dark foreign evil god which spawned minions very close to the faceless ones.
That was on another planet. Azeroth specifically only has 4 known Old Gods
@@ryanm7654 Right I mentioned "their world" but it leaves alot of room for more old god stuff not just on azeroth but on other worlds
I don't really like playing wow anymore, but your videos are still fun to watch
the old god of the cycle could potentially represent the emerald nightmare instead
That would be a major retcon. So probably will happen.
4:35 could be squid tentacles and not leaves.
But why wouldn't the top right hand corner "old god" just refer to Xal'atath?
They are the ENDLESS VOID, speakers of the infinite truths. ITs very possible that there are infinite N'zoths, one for every possible future.
Those aren’t leaves in the top right of the photo. They’re tentacles like from a squid.
I preupvote before watching... still waiting for the thrown weapon story :V
daaamn, this was a good vid man
That bit about the vines...could it be related to the Emerald Dream in any way?
The Emerald Dream was corrupted by the Old Gods, but did they ever confirm which Old God was primarily responsible for that corruption?
Yogg Sharon. Part of his essences touch the Emerald Dream thus creating the Emerald Nightmare.
Is like Azeroth is in a continue state of dream, that realm of dream it was the Ysera "domain". Yogg Sharon corrupt this real and turn part of it into a Nighmare real, his domain.
@@maxotak I read somewhere in the wiki that Yogg opened the Emerald Dream to the Old Gods but it was N'Zoth was behind the corrupting events like Xavius - though this could just be a placeholder explanation or an attempt to make N'Zoth stpry-relevant to players as I think it was stated during early BfA
Yogg created the entrance for the old gods, then n'zoth took over, so while yogg created the emerald nightmare, n'zoth grew it.
This means that blizzard are still baiting me with "to be continued" story still. Fuck that.
I don't see the leaves he is talking about to me they look like the 2 longer tentacles squids have or krakens with the wider ends
Can I get a source on the Gadgetzan thing? I remember seeing/hearing about it but I'd like a source
Candles...
It is dark in caves... 😅
Still waiting for the second moon to crack open and hatch something. It will probably be just a space chicken, but I still need to see it hatch.
Space boomkin
that is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die
I hope the Jailer uses N'Zoth as his little bitch in the final raid.
with all respect. Howmany Titans hat inspected Azeroth. And they all didnt sense one ?
You no take candle!
What if Nzoth was in the sky and we were just fighting its shadows.
"Or was this horrible writing", well, that question has been answered
Bruh..what if, and I'm just going wild with my imagination and is a stretch but, Teldrassil is linked to or IS Xal'atath?
5th Old God with roots = the great tree
Digging into skulls = the countless dead Night Elves when Sylvanas burned it
what is the addon u using for the quest?
Santa Clause is 6th old god.
Partial woo.
I am part of the "the old gods are still alive" group. I refuse to believe we killed them so easily
Especially since the titans themselves were incapable of killing them without destroying the planet, and even when they killed Yasharaj he still maintained influence on the mortal plane through the Sha and other shit
I don’t think Old Gods are these one and done deals, I think they definitely aren’t gone away entirely. I think in the post 8.3 dialogue Alleria mentions that while Nzoths big voice is gone, there’s now a ton of smaller voices filling the void, which might mean that Nzoth just had babies and we will have to contend with that at a later date
@@Marqrk I really think that was just kinda saying that smaller gods are basically trying to fill the void. The same thing was said by Malfurion after killing Rag.
@@Marqrk Honestly, it wouldn't be a stetch for 10.0 to be an old-god expansion.
@@tnecniw neat, we never had one of those. Killed all of them in patches removed from the actual progression of most expansion arcs.
@@Keldiur yeah it’s really weird how every time an old god pops up it’s essentially a side quest from the main game
N'Zoth was only a reference in a random whisper in a rare toy in Cata. For 10 years, a decade, the community alone build interest in this character, Blizzard didn't needed to do anything to hype him up. A writer's dream!
And BfA put him in a dumpster and lighted it on fire, for the sake of some First Ones we never heard of before. And they have the nerve to ask why we don't care for BfA and Shadowlands!!!
TRUE!
N'Zoth was the communitie's character. So many videos and forums/reddit posts over the decade and Blizzard was blind to it all and just gave him a (bad)Patch
When did someone from Blizzard ask "why we don't care for BfA and Shadowlands!!!" like did a employee of note actual ask such a dumb question to the community?
@@OldReaver if they understood why we didn't like BfA, Shadowlands wouldn't have happened.
@@AsprosOfAzeroth So they didn't actually ask why we don't like it. You just made it up so your complaint has more weight to it. I don't disagree with your statement. But pretending someone said something to suit your narrative better is not great.
What if we got shadowlands so they have time to pull off the next expansion "N'Zoth won and Shadowlands was just a fever dream, all hail the Black Empire!" (or maybe something catchier.. a man can dream...
The Old Gods are my favorite part of Warcraft lore. Their Lovecraftian darkness, and mystery lend the lore a gravity that it would otherwise be missing.
I think wow lost its touch during Wrath when they merged with activision. Ulduar was the last legit raid made by old blizzard. Although I did not play mists or BFA its like Ysharaj and N'Zoth were beyond the scopes of the new writing and design team. I mean when I went into AQ 40 I legit thought I was going insane when I heard C'thun randomly whispering to me.
Yes fighting beings like old gods used to fell so grand with us needing help from the keepers to defeat yog
But now it's just find sword find old god kill old god done
Tbh I used to feel the same, though dragons always beat them out by a little, but honestly they've been used so stupidly that I have a hard time really liking them. They're a huge part of the massive writing issue blizzard has with *corruption* basically making every significant or important character either mind controlled or insane. It's an especially bad issue with dragons, where seemingly every damn important dragon dies because of insanity or corruption.
I'd love them alot more *if* they were actually handled intelligently and nkt just used as a writers cop-out. But sadly, blizzard doesn't seem capable of that.
Would be even better if Blizzard gave at least SOME official reference to Lovecraft himself for building their whole main plot around his inventions... - even though they changed a few letters in their names around. It's a matter of respect. A lot of modern folks use his inventions and profit from it.
I had no idea Y'shraaj was a serpent like old god. Almost like a cloud serpent...
oooh nice connection never realized that lol
Was Y'shaarj not supposed to have 7 heads? Maybe it was meant metaphorically but it would be nice to know for sure.
@@petermaguire8139 Yeah, remember that those words were written way before an official design of Y'shaarj was ever coined.
@@petermaguire8139 He was. We just haven’t seen the rest of the Body. He is supposed to be the biggest Old God
I even thought they look like the seven deadly sins of pandaria.
With this hidden old god being so reminiscent of Cthulhu specifically it does lead to interesting possibilities. Cthulhu was not just any old god. He was relatively weak but also the high priest of the old gods. He could logically be used to bring back the other ones.
Damn, that’s an interesting idea.
I can see Xal'atath being the final Old God, and intending on bringing back the others, after she attains more power.
@PatrickMcCurry You seem to be mistaking and confusing both the names and the categories and the titles for the various beings of the lovecraft mythos.....and then making the logical error of assuming that there was some correlation between the appearance or powers or roles or history of Cthulhu and C'thun. They are totally different. Howard Lovecraft would never have been upset that Metzen was a fan and made the name reference...because Lovecraft very much enjoyed having other authors write things to happen in his fictional worlds. And Metzen did not disappoint; but C'thun is not a direct copy of anything in the mythos....nor does the term "Old God" translate the same. Lovecraft wrote Cthulhu as a "Great Old One". But that is not to be confused with the category of (Other Gods/Outer Gods) ...which exist outside the normal universe. And it certainly is not meant to be confused with the category of (Elder Gods) which were sometimes benevolent and helpful to mortals once in a while. And it certainly isn't meant to be confused with the category of (Elder Things, Elder Ones, Old Ones) which are just supposed to have been aliens that visited Earth a billion years ago and tampered with the life that would eventually result in Humans; and which were enemies of Cthulhu's category.
I would interpret the “leafs” a on the cathululu old god as actually looking more like the “Flipper” ends of a giant squid. Love the story though man, keep up the great work.
I was just about to post that, yeah!
this
I think the tiny detail that many have missed, the Cthulhu looking one, is nothing more than just an homage to H.P Lovecraft. Since the old gods and the void and all that, is taken directly from the works of Lovecraft. That being said, it can also be used as a seed for introducing yet another old god.
Note on the candle thing. You said most of the main world doesn't need to worry about the caves. Isn't there still a cave where dwarfs heavily warn not to enter one they collapse the entrance of? Forgot the zone, probably burning steps? Dont know if they are still there
The barrens, they dug up a relic, and that is what they warn of.
Uldaman, no, they said they dug up something that *should* always remain burried
old god stuff
It’s nothing new. Pretty sure that ended up being a relic
That intro to the kobold discussion showcases just how much we need playable Hozen in this game
Thanks for not giving up on WoW.
There as some people like me that have given up on playing WoW (for now) yet have no intentions of giving up following the lore/story. We have been burned too many times to continue to have faith in the WoW.
God forbid they decide to reintroduce Arthas during this expansion (Something I would have welcomed a year ago). One of the last remaining "unsundered" characters for me.
I think most people gave up on Blizzard and their ability to make a good game, a living world, interesting lore, and great characters.
@@Maria_Erias yet here you are watching a video about wow lore😂 dumb as hell.
I stopped playing wow back in february after 11 years and i must admit that it really hurts me the way the game has gone into, hope it gets back on its feet soon because all the memories we all have playing this game can't be erased
Justice for N'zoth!!! I'm still not over how Blizz butchered him in Bfa. I really really hope they will bring him back, maybe along with all of the old Gods :)
This video got me to think about it, but maybe it might be possible we were helping Nzoth with the miracle of childbirth. If I’m remembering it right Alleria mentions in the post raid dialogue that while Nzoth’s voice is now gone, there’s a ton of new voices echoing through the void, so it’s possible that old gods can reproduce through their own willing deaths, which is why he made so many choices that just kind of let us into Nyalotha and to his true body with the one weapon that could kill him.
This kind of fits with the other Old Gods too because he haven’t *really* killed them in the way we did Nzoth. For both Cthun and Yogg, they were kinda just poking their heads out of their time out box and we just bonk them til they go back down, and Yasharraj was literally ripped from the planet and destroyed by Titans, so it’s likely that he wasn’t prepared to split on death and as a result only left the sha behind rather than full on old gods.
N'zoth won. All of Shadowlands has been his nightmare city
I still bear His gift, waiting patiently for His return.
@@Marqrk Could just be the void he left being filled by numerous smaller old gods.
Bfa was just a bad expac
Some Guildmates and I were discussing after our first NZoth kill in BFA, one night. The idea we'd settled upon included main themes that the Old Gods colluded to plant the idea in the mortal heroes' thoughts that they could be killed. If they presented themselves as such they could work in the shadows and still continue their less obvious work without suspicion. It also allows the devs to pinpoint a villain and send adventurers out to kill said villain, resulting in epic raid content. Two birds, one stone. However our theories maintained that the Old Gods we're not dead, at all. We theorized even Yshaarj was alive in a manner of speaking. Given the cosmic nature of their origin we suspected they were more like mushrooms and jellyfish, thinking and willing with their entire bodies rather than a central brain or thinking center; that their origin concept had evolved beyond individual parts and transcended to a higher level. We believe their ability to telepathically communicate and influence at the range of the location of their tendrils in various parts of the world support that idea.
So, by presenting a 'head', so to speak, that protrudes from the world they can be 'killed' in order to allow people to forget about them. They do their best work in the shadows, in whispers, in quiet influence. They don't need to be the figure head of their faction so long as their will is delivered to the masses, which they can do through the mass of their tendrils.
To note, we specifically believe Yshaarj was heavily damaged, crippled, and incapable of reforming or expanding influence as a result of the assault by the Titans. So much damage was done to the corporeal body at that time we suspect he would be functioning like fragments of an earthworm cut in pieces, able to move and think independently but severely damaged and showing the result of that damage plainly and evidently.
I mean that's the whole deal with the Sha in MOP, right? Yshaarj is alive in some esoteric sense and still causing problems, just in a less focused or organised/intelligent manner.
For the longest time I felt that the powers that influenced the Everbloom on WoD were Old God in origin. As I was immediately reminded of the Flood from Halo. I even pieced together clues in my head that the orcs were developed in a method akin to the curse of flesh.
But how, if there were no Old Gods present? I think it was explained in a WoW chronicle, Idk but I like the thought that the Everbloom creatures were a type of Old God we hadn’t seen before.
The everbloom is based on a plant that threatened to consume all of dreanor called the evergrowth. It sprouted sporemounds all over the planet but when Aggramar discovered the planet he destroyed most of it and created Grond the elemental giant to continue his fight. Grond actually broke down into other colossus like magnaron which eventually became ogron, ogres, and orcs. The plant guys in draenor basically want to bring back the evergrowth but don't have the same spores to do so. One such spore actually drops from aggramar when you kill him in the form of a artifact relic.
Here is something to cover, where is The Darkmoon Fair even located on Azeroth if it even is on Azeroth
It's in a pocket realm, I think this was mentioned in the lore as the leader had to makes deals to acquire it.
@@jamestomlin5525 it's out in the middle of the ocean, and has a definite N'zoth like eyeball staring at you. Makes sense since Nzoth is the one who said "I LIKE DEALS". So that one makes perfect sense to me.
5:15 hearthstone players were always confused for that, Blood of the Ancient One, came out of nowhere, the strongest minion in the game (strongest one can get without buffs). 30/30 massive beast that looks different than your average Katraxxi or other Qiraji, too big and serpent like to be a minion
IIRC it was confirmed to be an "agent of the Old Gods," and that its stats are a gameplay mechanic rather than a lore argument.
@@Menolith yeah i know why the stats are 30 attack, max HP of heroes, it doesn't matter, what i mentioned is how big this thing is and how different from all the other minions it is. A slitherer style monster but without legs and with many arms instead of tentacles, it's entirely unique
I agree with you. Deathwing, a 12/12, would EASILY be able to kill Rexxar, a hero, with one single swipe or fire breath. Despite that, Rexxar has 30 hp and would easily survive an attack by Deathwing in full force. HP and Attack are just stats. What’s interesting is that there’s nothing else that looks like it, except Y’shaarj’s Hearthstone art.
Damn I love you guys!
Great teamwork, great video. From now on I will use this video to prove the return of the Black Empire! :v
Old god lore always excites me, but imo it was more interesting before they were branded as mere pawns for the void lords or whatever they are called
I mean, they are basically the Great Old Ones, who are pawns of the Outer/Ultimate Gods
I agree with what you're saying, however some could say that if the Old Gods, as powerful as they are, are just pawns, a fraction of the void's power? Well damn that makes the void lords all the more terrifying hypothetically
Was there ever a time when the old gods were not pawns? O.o
I agree with you, but I also didn’t like that the appearances made canon by Hearthstone look so much like things that already exist. C’thun and Yogg-Saron were strange, writhing masses of flesh unlike anything else, but N’zoth is basically just an enormous octopus/kraken, and Y’shaarj is essentially just a Chinese dragon/sha. I feel like they would’ve looked different it it wasn’t because of Hearthstone.
I just wanted a nose and ear old god, damn it.
@@Syngrafer All fun and games until the void rockets two flesh masses at the planet that then become the ear and nose old gods
You had me at “old god”. Wonderful video and delightful information! I’m a sucker for any old god and void stuff. I’m also pleased to see you continuing your work and I will continue to be a fan.
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh N'zoth Ny'alotha wgah'nagl ftagn!"
"In his house at Ny'alotha dead N'zoth waits dreaming"
"Y'ai 'ng'ngah Yogg'saron h'ee-l'geb f'ai throdog uaaah"
(Unknown Meaning)
From where is that ?
Originally the works of H.P. Lovecraft. Though i inserted WoW Old God names in place of lovecraft's ones.. First quote is from The Call of Cthulhu (and has a translation) and the second is from... dunwich horror i think.
Really great books if you like horror, or are a fan of Old God like things (commonly referred to as cosmic horror)
change "N'zoth Ny'alotha" to "Cthulhu R'lyeh" and "yogg'saron" to "yog'sothoth" and you have the original quotes
The old god lore and stories are one of the most interesting, and well conceived stories in Warcraft. The way they infest and corrupt young Azeroth's races and lands. Their ancient battles with the titans and elementals. It's arguably the most original and unique story telling that Warcraft has to offer.
Everything after that like the whole orcs vs humans thing is just ripped from Tolkien.
aren't old gods like HP Lovecraft copies or smth?
@@nenadseat4029 let him live his fantasy :'c
Good video just finished watching it :)
Good comment just finished reading it :)
@@zipp4910 thank you :) good comment to you too. Just finished reading it :)
Could the fifth possible old good just be a Xel'naga?
I still love the idea that the WarCraft universe and the StarCraft universe are the same but with the planets be very very far away from another.
Quests like the kobold one is why Legion was the best expansion.
No i did not like legion.
I appreciate the love for 'Old Gods' that people show in this comment section.
But personally, I am tired of fighting against old gods.
I like Shadowlands story because it is fresh - our adversary is finally neither old gods nor burning legion
uh oh. sorry about 9.2 lol
I'm more and more leaning towards SL being the madness induced by N'zoth. God I hope that's true.
That'd be a great way to backtrack on this trash they've come up with.
4:43 The Evergrowth? Just like the "void planets" in the skybox during the Star Augur Etraeus fight where if you actually look isn't certainly void infested because the vines enveloping the planet split off unlike any tentacles.
Evergrowth isn't related to the Old Gods tho.
It's the result of excessive Spirit in Draenor, which caused Life to fall out of balance.
Instant favorite episode. Keep it up Hiru and team!
I've been saying since 9.0 that i think there's an old god in shadowlands. I think the forbidden knowledge of the first ones that zovall is seeking contains a way to summon the old god, and it will be the final boss of the expansion. Old god madness explains his desire to reforge the universe.
It's already been established that the void has infiltrated the shadowlands, so it makes sense to me
Oh god this would revive the story so much
@@lightests would it though? It would just be another completely random lore tidbit that comes out of nowhere and doesn't tie-in with anything or make any sense. It wouldn't fix the issues of the current state of the lore
Surprised you didn't mention 'The Old God Pentagram/Hexagram' theory, it is said that the Old Gods will resurrect at six points forming a Hexagram around Azeroth, the locations are said to be;
Northrend - Yogg Saron
Darkshore / Ashenvale
Tirisfal Glades / Ghostlands
Silithus - C'Thun
STV
Vale of Eternal Blossoms - Y'Shaarj
If you visit these locations all will contain; Void, Twilight Hammer or Faceless Ones, etc... Furthermore, each one of these locations have a raid/dungeon; Ulduar, Blackfathom Deeps, ZA, AQ, ZG and Siege of Orgrimmar
One of the best "Unknown Side of WoW" videos so far for sure.
Since the "death" of Illidan in TBC and his return as a savior of Azeroth and Jailer of Sargeras, I believe the Old Gods are not dead and can return on future expansions where the devs put some random explanation of why they can't be killed by normal means( ex: rip of from the planet or using a Good looking black dragon with a Dagger to weaken then. )
--> Just like Arthas says in Warcraft 3: "Does anyone stays dead anymore?"
About the Old God on Draenor, I don't believe is possibile since Aggramar pass there ages ago and we dont have mention of him fighting old gods( Unless the Genesaurs and botanis are created by one) and usually they corrupt worlds with souls. If that point it's true, then Draenor could had a Old God sometime in past and have a "soul god" just like Azeroth. If not, then the presence of Void in Draenor can be from the corruption that cames from Guldan and years of fel magic.
By the way, I love your Lore and theories. Good Job Hirumaredx!
Dranei brought the void to draenor. When 2 of the 3 Naaru ran out of light. The void influenced the orc souls and brought them back as a spirit(Oshungun).
Well than Guldan siphoned one of the turned Naaru and used its power when the orcs sieged Karabor. But it was ChoGall who worshipped the void so when they crossed the dark portal the old gods started whisper to him.
I JUST FOUND OUT YOU DO DND STUFF!?!?!? it was autoplaying after i was watching Crit Role and i recognized your voice anywhere ... good shit my dood i appreciate your grit and grind
I also do Yu-Gi-Oh stuff aswell!
@@hirumaredx YOU'RE SAYING YOU KNOW ALL THIS LORE AND ITEMS ALONG WITH YGO?!?!? Well I know how im spending the rest of my week, GG
Well this video was actually researched and written by my channel manager Felplague, but yeah.
Since the day you where born, the very forests of loarderon *whispered* the name Arthas.
Wouldn't it be weird if the hidden old god was elune? Maybe an old god that turned traitor like sargeras did to the other titans.
I stopped playing in legion but isn't elune just a sister of that tree lady from shadowlands?
@@davidrafael1769 Oh is she? i havent read any of the books, haven't even played since legion i just love the lore but i probably shouldn't be speculating lol
Look up giant squids, they have 2 long tentacles that end up in leaf like structure at the end and some tentacles in the game have that tip so it can still be squid related not rly plant base
Hey could you make a "unknown side of FFXIV" video? Much appreciated buddy.
Nobody cares about ff14
Speculation.
The 5th Old God is Xal'atath. She was killed by the other Old Gods before the arrival of the Titans. Her body is buried deep under the Dragon Isles.
A portion of her spirit was inside the dagger (now free) but the vast majority of it slumbers in a pocket dimension that connects the Emerald Dream and Ardenweald. (That's why you can see both plants and skeletons in her artwork at Chronicles) those two connected realms represent the cycle of life and death.
LOL, a Deuce Ex Machina? Deus (Day-Us) is how it's pronounced. But ya, why do they have to make everything a mystery? Just damn decide if they're actually dead or not.
At the Nighthold before the final fight. Alternate Gul'dan states that we (Horde players) will die like our old Warchief. Ahaha... But who cares because in the end Death will consume our world, She will make sure of that. Medivh also tells Khadgar that the Door sometimes must be forced open for the greater good and he must have an open mind. So Legion foreshadows Shadowlands so many times... that you are left wandering is it a plot jole or did everyone know about the Jailer.
I have a theory that the 5th Old God image in Chronicle Vol III is Xal'atath. I theorize that she is basically C'thylla from the Cthulhu mythos, the secret daughter of the great old one. Her purpose in the mythos is to birth Cthulhu when he is inevitably destroyed. Cthylla's is described as looking like a winged octopus with several eyes, and she can change how many appendages she has and the size of them and her wings. Another key thing about Cthylla is that it states she can take on a humanoid form.
Xal'atath is connected to N'Zoth is some way that much is pretty clear, she takes on a humanoid form in BfA and she is believed to be an Old God that was not known.
My theory is that when N'Zoth lost to Y'shaarj on what is now the Broken Shore he realized he is able to be killed and so he created a sort of "daughter" as a contingency plan for when he does get destroyed by something. This daughter I think is Xal'atath and her purpose is basically to resurrect N'Zoth.
Me, pre Cata era: RP server, NE druid, make up a wild god just to explain her fascination with mushrooms, spore magic, etc.
Cata: Proof that said wild god could've had a form of grip on Azeroth's wilderness as a living, elusive form of 'raw nature' similar to an elemental, or a nature-aligned old god-like creature
MoP: RP more, come up with Druids of the Spore, connection to Emerald Nightmare, design an actual physical form for it
Every xpac afterwards: Me finding more and more little info nuggets and zones that seem to strongly emphasize the powers of said wild god, like Crimson Fen in Gorgrond, the red flora near the EN raid in Legion, the swamps of Nazmir / former jungle of Vol'dun, and so far, the 'cycle' from Ardenweald
This video: Shows an image that looks almost exactly like how I personally have envisioned that wild god for years
o_o I swear I made that thing up, but Blizz seems to constantly hint that it exists!