ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- We all call it a 4:00 crown case, but the truth is, the crown isn't at 4:00? Just where the heck is it? Let's find out!
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Thank you for watching!
So, does this mean that when replacing a faulty nh36 movement , I need not concern myself with the crown position on the replacement movement, as long as my old day wheel is intact and can be used in the New Movement?
This is correct.
You can use your old day wheel. Or you can but a NH36 that comes with a 3:45 wheel. Also a warning, old day wheels from 7S26 (36) A and B versions do not work with 7S26C, NH or 4R movements, at all, the engaging mechanism is different it has nothing to do with crown position.
Great video Marc! I had the same realization about 2 years ago and when I explained the math to a buddy his eyes just glazed over. You are a better teacher than I am.
LOL. We are all a bit nutty.
I recently came to the same realization after buying one of your practice watches and deciding to replace the movement. When looking at the two options available for the NH36, they were for 3 and 3.8. Being a watch mod newbie and a detail junkie, I had to reconcile the difference before buying. I appreciate what you are doing and all of the content you put out. Thanks Marc.
Thanks Tim!
Absolutely fascinating episode Marc! Always love seeing you flex those engineer muscles 💪
You totally need to put “It’s not a 4 o’clock crown, it’s a 3:46:27 crown” on a t shirt or something!
LOL. I'll sell 2 of them. :)
@@islandwatch ...at least 3...I’ll buy one!
@@islandwatch make it 4...
On a coffee mug ?😉
Make it 5 🤣
I’m a data analyst at a big utilities company in the NJ/Long Island areas and I find myself thinking of little details from my work as I doze off to sleep. This is such a small detail, I love it. Great video!
He's made me appreciate watches and I picked up a few but I don't think I'm really a "watch guy" but I just love seeing someone who is passionately nerding out about some weird thing about a thing he's interested in that no one else should care about, and yet you're taken along by just his questioning and persistence and how much he cares. It's like a universal language.
Great episode, I would love to see more of this kind.
Noted.
HAHA! Thanks Marc, that was a fun clear refresher. It's amazing how most of us labored through so many maths from childhood to college then forget almost all of it by the age of 30.
I swear that "maths" is a Mandela Effect. I KNOW it was always called "math" back in my day!!!
I never forget.
@@ZommBleed no, it's a British thing.
I was shopping for dive watch cases just a couple days ago for a Seiko mov't. and was wondering why some of them were described as either 3 o'clock or 3.8 o'clock. Now this confirms what I figured. Thanks, Marc! :D
All I know is, the fact that the day and date line up perfectly on my SKX means it’s a keeper for life. Bought it at LIW.
Truth!
Bought mine little over a year ago from LIW and couldn't be happier!!
Ahhh... but do the bezel and chapter ring line up? 😉
If everything lines up, it's probably a fake.
The most deserved 👍 ever. Thanks!
No need to apologise,I watch and learn....very informative and interesting.Thank you.
I appreciate that!
Great video! Many thanks for sharing. The older Seiko 7002 has a very similar case to the SKX (you can put the same bracelet on etc), but it has a only date movement and the crown is exactly at 4:00.
Yes, exactly
Love the Red October Watch! Keeping my eye out for a possible “Re-Release” of that one!
Thank you
I definitely feel like a need now. Have not thought about math this much since college.
Like being back in school, it's a lesson that needs to be learned. Instead of always handing out the lesson.
Thank you.
You are welcome
Loved this episode! Could not stop smiling all the way through 😅😂🤣
Great video showing the difference. Thanks for taking the time. I prefer the NH38 or Miyota 9039 myself. I'll choose a no-date, no ghost position every time when the option is offered. If the time should ever come to replace the movement I don't have to worry about matching the date disc colors, etc. Finally, not having a cut out on the dial just gives the trinket dial better symmetry to my eyes. One of the favorites I own is the OMEGA Railmaster with the no date 8806 movement. It's essentially the same as the 8800 minus the date. The dial on that is a thing of beauty without the date.
Thanks for the feedback, Mike.
Love the way you think Mark! And it makes perfect sense, you're left handed!
Great tutorial, thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks, now when I hear people say 4 o’clock crown I’m going to correct them vigorously.
Do it!!!!!
Fantastic idea! I'm joining in!
Lol. I’m not sure I ever needed to know or ponder that but now I know. Somehow it was interesting enough to keep watching.
It's like a train wreck, you gotta watch
Another knowledge gained. Thanks Marc...
My pleasure!
Thanks Mark, I enjoyed that learning.
Glad to hear it!
From one engineer to another, thoroughly enjoyable geek out!
Very interesting. I'm a software engineer and have written clock algorithms for user interfaces, so definitely right up my street! Thank you Marc :-)
How many software engineers does it take to change a light bulb? tio Jimmy
Enjoy it, thank you.
That was a wonderful bit of OCD, Marc! I, for one, loved it. That's the kind of information I will never forget once I assimilate it. Perhaps you could answer another question that has been bothering me for quite a while now- What is the terminal velocity of an unladen Swallow?
LOL.
Always wondered about that, thanks for the explanation
Glad to help
Loved it!
Thanks!!
different date wheel??!? Why can't they just have two sets of holes/slots on the wheel so that it can be aligned either way?
I love the sweaping hand wall clock
If there ever was a question if you are or not an engineer all went away with this episode. Very interesting presentation, I would not have wondered on my own but now I know.
LOL. Yeah, I got issues
Wow that is interesting. I always wondered why the low numbers on the date window were bigger than the larger numbers.
When they came up with offset crown positions, Daini went with 3:46 and Suwa went to 4:00. The new Seiko Land Turtles seem to have a true 4:00 position on the crown
Good point however the 7002 which had a Daini movement had the crown at 4 o'clock this was also made after the Suwa factory shut in 1981....
Land turtles, will check that out.
@@Andrew.W75 Good observation, I knew about that. It’s because that was a Suwa design case (6309 slim and 7538), they “fixed it” with the SKX release
@@d3xmeister Does the true 4:00 crown position have something to do with the 4:30 date position choice on the land turtle?
@@MattandDianeOlsen Possible
Seiko used to make 4 o'clock crowns like the original Willards and 6105-8000s but for some reason they switched to 3:45. Some Chinese companies make homages to vintage seiko drivers with true 4 o'clock crowns which can mess up the day window if you swap out the dials
It is interesting, I wonder why the swap. Just for ease of movements maybe.
Hahaha I've been eyeing my islander this morning and saw your notification about the 4 o'clock position and I can't unsee this
LOL
I never thought about this before, but it would surely bother me too if I had.
Thank you for both introducing me to and solving the conundrum simultaneously. 😆
Happy to help!
This was awesome.. feeds my engineering brain.
Thanks mark. Very informative. I've recently purchased the parts to do my first build. A Seiko Samurai with a 3oclock crown and for the life of me I couldn't work out why there is a difference between the 3 and 4 o'clock movements. You have answered my question. Thanks.
Keep up the good work. I also have a keen eye on the build as well. Cheers.
Glad I could help
Thanks for the great explanation! My brain hasn’t worked that hard in a long time. Lol
Have a great day! 👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸
Thanks!
Great vid ,cool info thank u Marc
Very cool! Thanks 🤝
Thank you too!
Brilliant! Watching the day/date line up at 4 o'clock (sorry, 3.46!), was revelatory and strangely satisfying. Call it geekery, call it smarts - there ain't enough of it in the YT horology universe!
Thank you.
Interesting. Thanks.
You're welcome
Brilliant.
Thanks Joe.
Thanks Mark - you have totally messed up my OCD now I know my beloved SKX007J is imprecise by design - the excuse I needed to swap it for a 63MAS :)
LOL
I always assumed the 3 and 4 o clock movements were the same. Just in different cases. Thanks
They are, sort of
I tried to stuff the movement and dial from my ISL-21 in to a Seiko SNK80x case and the hands were too tall but I discovered how you keep your chapter rings lined up. Simple. I'd do the same with the bezel, put pegs on the insert so it locks in perfectly aligned into the bezel then put the teeth onto the actual watch case so it is perfectly aligned. Then put the click spring that jumps one tooth to the next on the bezel itself and a gasket inboard of the springs to center it.
Good engineering!
For the first 2 minutes of the video I just went what the hell is Mark talking about. And then it hit me. And then I was like oh my God that is awesome. Mark, you're such a nerd. And such a watch enthusiast. And that's why we love buying from your brand.
Glad you enjoyed!!!!
Oh I wish I had a mathematical mind.when you explain it it makes sense but I could never figure that out like you did with such ease.
Thank you
This is the exact reason why I have not purchased any of the recent ‘affordable’ Seiko Willard reissues … the crown is not at 4! Peter Korea made a great video on this a year (or so) ago. The original 6105-8110 had its crown at the 4 marker, yet Seiko persists in not doing so on their cheaper reissue models. Why? I cannot explain. Until then, I wear my Turtles, a Steeldive and Smiths homages. Thanks for another great video, Marc.
Welcome, Eddie.
Excellent episode, do enjoy this type of content. Thank you 👍👍
Thank you.
learned this when i was ordering a NH36 movement for a build - had only two version listed - crown at 3 or at 3.8
That works.
@@islandwatchDoes the NH36 crown 3,8 works in my early SKX007 with a 7S26A then?
I love "Watch Nerd" videos. It proves to me that I am in a "community" of people who share an interest. I guess my high school teacher was right; I will need math later in my life.
Great vid Mark.
Now, I can sleep tonight.
Us that own a 7002 and an SKX are familiar with the 4.00/3.45 crown thing! They still both get called the 4.00 o'clock though!
Yeah, annoying!
Tuesday 29th still didn't line up on the 4 o'clock crown NH36 movement. 😂
That's EXACTLY the kind of stuff I use to go and sleep :-). Thanks Marc for this funny one. I actually realized my SKX009 crown was not at 4 a few days ago...
It works! Zzzzzz
We have been lied to!!! The 5 Seiko principles are probably a lie too 😭😭 I don't know how to live anymore
Thank you for showing the math that was really cool I'm not good at math so it's kind of exciting that I can understand this
Love this
Thank you
There are 30 deg between hour markers, so each degree represents 2 minutes past the hour. So 23 deg past three is 46 minutes past three.
Man, I love this channel because of videos like these; and I'm not even a math person.
Thank you
I noticed that when I got an SKX and then again on your ISL20 I got over a year ago.
Bugged me a bit but just rolled with it. But every time I reach for them to set the time , the ocd comes back. Lol Thanks for clearing that up Marc! I'll be able to breathe easier next time they go on wrist.
Now you know!
That was fun, ok next calculation, the Jacob & Co. Astronomia Tourbillon. That would be extra fun.
Bonus points.
Just to confuse things, the 6105 8009 has a true 4 o'clock crown as does the NH powered, near clone that appeared recently.
Yup.
My old school 7002 diver has a true 4 o'clock crown. They changed it with the skx line and everyone started calling it a 3:45 crown.
tell me you're an engineer without telling me you're an engineer lol
Yeah, this would do it.
As a modder this video answered some nagging questions for me. Cheers Marc.
Thanks Dave
You just really re-defined what it means to be OCD in my mind. With that said, this was interesting.
Hey Marc, at least the case is not too late, the crown is just a little bit before 4 o'clock, better than right on time.
True!
That was a rabbit hole I did not need to go down. 😳
Yeah, sorry.
Thanks Marc, can you put me down for one of those new Long Island Watch-themed vernier caliper & circular slide rule combo sets?
LOLOL
Great video! I really enjoyed seeing all the math done out, I have thought about this before LOL.
Glad you liked it!
It's 3:45ish. I do movement swaps for SKXs and clients were always asking if I could get an NH36 into a 7002 case. You can't because the 7002 is ACTUALLY a 4 o'clock crown and the day wheel will be off.
Correct.
I have an old Seiko diver from 1982 where the crown is placed exactly outside the 4 o'clock position. How can I find a new NH36 atomatic movement who will fit in this old case. Great video thanks for sharing.
What movement does it have in it? I think you are probably out of luck.
Nice! I'm not a math whiz but you made it understandable.
Seiko's divers that came before the SKX had the crown at a true 4 o'clock position, the 7002, 6309 & 6105 etc. Not sure why this changed with the SKX, but I also have a Daini made 7019-6010 from 1970 which has the crown at 3:45 like the SKX!
I wonder, it must have something to do with the 7S26 and the desire to have one date wheel for both.
@@islandwatch Good point, just thinking the 7002 which the 7S26 is developed from didn't have a day wheel, just a date. Could the day wheel in the 7S26 be the reason they moved the crown?
Muc off does OK but probably not strong enough? But is good anyway as you can spray it on brakes etc. My engine on 50yr old bmw r60 came up well when I first used it. But we.re not talking shiny. 😊
Spoken like a true engineer 👍
Haha! Great video! I haven’t modded or replaced a watch movement so I never thought it this but it was definitely interesting!
Glad it was helpful!
Loved it!
If anyone doubted that you were an engineer before selling watches their doubts are gone now!!! 😆
LOL. True
I enjoyed the episode, but I'm a nerd so I'm going to enjoy anything with math. 😊
Great, enjoy! Do the Math Clock!
So this only applies if the dial has day/date window. If you have a dial with only a day window you can use the movement in a 3 o’clock or a 4 o’clock crown.
I'm glad I'm no longer OCD now that age had has caught up. The reason I like the four o'clock position is that it keeps the crown out of the way. I wonder how many crowns get ripped off Tanks and Santos. ALSO, some high end watches have the dates off the 3 o'clock or 6 o'clock
(contd.) position and the number and cut-out are "crooked ", why can't they straighten the number to read squarely with the dial numbers? It shouldn't be harder than reprinting the date wheel and restamping the face. What do you think Mark?
At 6:57 you say the day is expanded to fit the window when it can, but I think you meant to say the *date* is expanded to fit the window when it can.
I love this stuff!
Me too!
4 o clock is an 18.5 minute past movement. That's how I mount the dial when modding using these movements.
if in doubt find out. That's why you started & run Long Island Watches. If you really love what you do you'll never work a day in your life. YOU JUST PROVED IT!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Bart!
Arithmetic always gave me agida. I have a MA in history, but have to take my shoes and socks off to add up to 20.
Was interesting.thanks
Thanks for watching.
Good show. You obviously have some standards for accuracy. I am still an advocate for crown guards as I have read the crown is the most accessible/vulnerable area on a mechanical watch to insure longevity. Years ago Gevril had a "unlocked crown indicator" on some mechanical watches. Heard Rolex tried to purchase it but did not succeed.
LOL, loved this episode!
Thanks!
Just cost cutting at the minute scale by the watch company, saves them from having to print both day and date wheels for a true 4:00 position, simply mass produce cases with the slightly off 4:00 crown position to use the same date wheel in both positions.
My Orient Triton handled the 4:00 crown by placing the date window at 4:00 and not having a day of week indicator.
The 34627 crown. As always, amazing video, thank you sir 👏👏👏
My pleasure!
Great video as always.But when i saw the watch that we are building i stop that frame and honestly i was disapointed how it looks so far.Maybe I'm the only one who thinks we're doing
something that's seen so much in the world of watches - blue dial etc.,and we had a chance to make somethig more unique that would been recognized as a true Island watch.
Of course this is just mine opinion and maybe you will tell as what you would choose.Greetings from Serbia,i think you know my country :)
No worries. I sell what the masses want, not what 2 out of 10 want.
I dig that stuff too 😉👍🏻
Right on!
I've noticed that my Seiko 5 Actus 6106 from 1970 has a four o' clock crown, but the 5s and my SKX with 7s26 has the ~3:46 placement.
Yup, they are.
Next, Mark explains the effects of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle on Seiko rehaut alignment... 😏
Ha! And I'll use a cat.
Talk about seikos with the crown at 4 o'clock too. 62mas reissue is not 3.8, it's 4 o'clock. Most vendors just look the other way. Us modders need clarity.