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man, 2 from 3 gods are dead and they can't work together then your theory is a trash, and if you don't know Myrkul created spirit-eater curse to maintain his existance in Mask of the Betrayer, it's another fact to destroy your theory
That's definitely Jergal. Why else he would be in a Jergal temple. In the agree with you, Jergal is definately instructed, either by AO or Kelemvor. I think there is a divine plot going on and the player is in the middle of it: 1) the game promote certain pieces of Forgotten Realms lore more than other to set the scene: Dead Three (Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal) and Shar/Selune . that's a chekhov's gun. 2) we know that tadpole's are infused with shadow magic, which is difference than regular magic. Regular Magic is based on Waeve (Mystra) and Shadow Magic is based on Shadow Weave, controlled by Shar. This brings the question whether mind flayers are in cahoots with Shar. Shadow Magic cannot be undone with regular magic. The party will need a spellcaster that uses Shadow Magic to get rid of the tadpoles. Also, Shar being the goddess of secret, I assume her clergy won't be aware of her plot, hence Shadowheart's lack of knowledge in this topic.
Also shadowheart isn't high up on the church, so isn't likely to be involved in any plots. I think this is what is likely to turn her away from shar if you keep working on her. Bit likenin dragonage, where you can harden or soften the companions
Well we can say for certain that it is not the physical form of Jergal because per D&D lore, deities cannot take physical form on the physical plane. They can only act through champions and avatars. So at best he may be an avatar of Jergal.
Unfortunately I dont know enough about Baldurs Gate and D&D lore to give any theory's but this shit was interesting and getting me more hyped about the game. Thank you !!
4:32 there’s also a dialogue for your cleric character that plays when you enter the chapel first.. something along the lines of ‘I can feel divine presence’ where shadow heart chimes in about who is that patron god
Following previous comment: 3) The game also talks about Sundering. during the event of the Sundering, Shar was a major deity. She used the Shadow Magic and Shadovar Netherese empire to expand her rule. At the end of the Sundering, the Netherese lost, and her power has been reduced significantly by AO. It is only normal that she will plot a comeback. 4) The Dead Three were powerful deities prior to Time of Trouble (happened before the Sundering) at the end of which they were dead. by the end of the Sundering they are back but reduced to average/minor deities. It is fair to assume that they are plotting a comeback. BG I & II were about Bhaal's plot to come back as a deity. 5) All other major deities like Mystra, Kelemvor will oppose a Shar & Dead Three plot
Thanks for the video - it got me thinking about my last playthrough where I found a book in the Dank Crypt across from the entrance above a chest. The book (On Death & Resurrection) is an excerpt from the ongoing Metatext that is rebound by Losefa Eglin who was excommunicated from the Church of Deneir. The first line is "Of what value a life?" - I would love to hear your thoughts on how this plays into the bigger picture you laid out in this video BTW I think that is the nerdiest thing I've ever written... kind of proud of that ;)
I don't think he is Jergal. I think he is a Chosen of Jergal. The temple he is buried in is likely very very old, Jergal has been a small power since he relinquished his position to the Dead Three, sometime around the fall of Netheril. I believe that whoever hthe hooded skeleton is, he is a Chosen that Jergal "stored" in the temple way way back then, as a failsafe of sort against an event he knew was coming. Why do I believe that? 1°) first, there is the quote on the sarcophagus "here lies the guardian of tombs. Through knowledge comes atonement." If the body in the tomb is Jergal, it makes no sense: why would a god need atonement through knowledge? Instead I think the guardian of tombs is a title of a high ranking priest of Jergal. The fact that he is entombed in a temple of his god with a cadre of skeleton (who were likely former members of Jergal"s clergy, considering the place they were in and the fact they animated when his tomb was disturbed) land the fact that he needs "atonement through knowledge" likely comes from him having displeased Jergal and Jergal having punished him by revealing a secret unfit for mortal ears to him and then emprisonning him until said secret would play out. This knowledge also explains why he doesn't want to be here but thinks he has to. 2°) Neither Ao nor Kelemvor are likely to use Jergal as a patsy to go against the Dead Three. Both are big boys with their own avatars and means of action. If Kelemvor wanted to go against the Dead Three, he would send one of his own avatars (he knows that Jergal used to serve Myrkul and is a previous god of death, he also knows that Jergal is all in all a rather passive deity). Ao would simply blast the Dead Three to kingdom come. Furthermore whatever the Dead Three have planned, it's unlikely to stir Ao to react: he barely batted an eye when Cyric freed Kezef, killed Leira, Mask and Mystra or wrote the Cyrinishad. The only thing that seems to make him react is a conflict between Gods and Primordials: he separated Abeir from Toril to prevent a war and was pissed someone touched the Tablets of Fate because it ended up bringing the two planets together again. We also know that a Chosen that has displeased his divinity can't be "unchosen": Samaster, a Chosen of Mystra, became completely insane upon the power of the godess entering him and created the Cult of the Dragon and invented the Dracoliches. Mystra was unable to do anything about it and it was Lathander that had to step in and blast him through an avatar.
Btw, why did I mention Netheril in this? The Temple of Jergal, while not really big, is clearly well equipped. It’s full stone with carvings and beautiful statues and could clearly house several dozen people. Jergal is currently a demigod (in fact, in older editions, he wasn’t even that: he was an exarch, a kind of divine being that takes his power from a god and is worshipped as part of their clergy. He was to the god of Death kinda like Saint-Peter to Jesus: a servant with great abilities but not quite divine). A demigod in DnD has a few hundred to a few thousands worshippers. That seems like a big place of worship for such a small church, especially in the wilderness like that. That’s why I believe that this church of Jergal may date back to before the advent of the Dead Three, when Jergal was still a major deity with millions of worshippers.The Dead Three became gods at an unspecified date but soon after the fall of Netheril, likely around -330 DR. So the church is around 2000 years old which, considering its state, is not impossible.
This would fit my theory that the Dark Urges story of the game is Jergal wanting to take back his power from The Dead Three. This Avatar of Jergal is there to assist us in our battle against The Dead Three, and the Dark Urges path is us giving in to Jergal to become cruel and destructive enough to face them, and perhaps us even becoming an Avatar of Jergal or Jergal himself. If we go evil enough, and we can kill The Dead Three and take their power, become a god, as Larian hinted, that we actually become Jergal himself.
TL;DR He is 100% either Jergal himself or one of his clergy, the Scriveners of Doom. He is found in a crypt in what is obviously a Temple of Jergal, and when he resurrects party members he says "By Doom and Dusk, i strike thy name from the Archives! Rise!", actively naming three things that are associated with Jergal: Doom, as in the Scriveners of Doom, and Dusk, as in the time of the day when Scriveners pray for their spells, and the Archives, which is where they record the names of the dead. For context, here are direct quotes from the forgotten realms wiki: "The church of Jergal is small and secretive, a rigidly organized, almost monastic order of scribes known as the Scriveners of Doom. Based largely in lifeless stone mausoleums and dry, dusty crypts, its members spend their days maintaining and extending vast archives of scrolls listing how sentients under their purview passed away and their destination in the afterlife." "Clerics of Jergal pray for their spells at dusk, a time of day representative of the end of life." Seems to me like Larian pretty much read this wiki page and lifted the details straight from it! One reason i think he could be Jergal himself is that he actually voluntarily stepped down from his post out of boredom, giving his powers to the Dead Three. That means he has the opportunity and motive to stir up some shit in the material plane. On the other hand, as you mentioned he says that he's not there voluntarily, which points towards him being ordered by Kelemvor.
Man, imagine the look on my face when I came to this conclusion on my own and find videos of others who also pieced it together: minor vindication! Also, consider this: think about the temple door when we first meet Shadowheart. There is a Netherese sigil sitting right next to it. Considering that Jergal was a greater deity during the age of Netheril, it hints at our friend indeed being Jergal since that is when he was worshipped most. Anyway, good content as always!
08:39 ~ it is important to note that @WolfheartFPS is forgetting that undead male says his presence at the camp is not his choice. That makes his statement about being Merkal rather odd, as he could still be Merkal, because saying Merkal is walking a very different path is meaningless, as he is not there by choice… 😅 🌒🌕🌘
Don't know if it is possible but would love a twist where it is the protagonist from BG1 and 2. An alternate ending/ continuation of a story where the protagonist from BG1 and 2 failed to replace Bhaal. BG3 being a plot that happens because of a fallen hero's story would be new. He gives off the vibe of a student of Gorion and his "situation" might be demigod/torn soul after his interaction with Jon Irenicus. not likely to be right yet would be something we haven't seen before.
Maybe if he was played as Evil and ascended, Solar wasn't by his side and thus torn, torn in the fight with Melissan and didn't take over to Cyric thus relegated to avatar. Either way...
@@arielsoler2504 Please, come on we have never picked up a franchise's continuation from where a prior story's hero fell. We always pick up where the "antagonist" just "magically comes back.
I wonder if the Absolute has something to do with Myrkul, and maybe Bane also, as those who wear the symbol of the Ansolute have something representing a skull in a triangle which is very close to the symbol Myrkul, but wil also a raised hand which is the symbole of Bane. Along with the third god of the Dead Three, Bhaal, they are Quasi-Dieties in the 5th Edition, so they might plot for more power. After all it's more or less the same story for Bhaal in the first Baldur's Gate who did plot his come back from divine death.
I know this may be a little off topic, but is there any news on an update for the game? Last I heard there was supposed to be a big update after the holidays, possibly new classes/races? Anything beyond that? Any info is greatly appreciated! Love the DnD lore videos and pretty much everything about Baldur's Gate, very interesting!
I put 35 hours or so into BG3, then stopped, doing 90% of the overland quests (for 1 run, I know different choices would have opened up other quests/options) and maybe 1% of the underdark. I idn't stop bc of bugs, and I was a day 1 downloader. I stopped because the game was so good I didn't want to miss out on too many *_*"First Kiss"*_* experiences so-to-speak. I hit the original lvl 4 soft lvl. cap and called it a day essentially. What I don't understand is why more people aren't going nuts in anticipation over this game. Wastelands 3 was received exceptionally well, and as much as I really, really enjoyed it (best RPG of 2020 _imo,)_ but it still wasn't quite up to the BG3 lvl. Actually, I don't think there has been a true turn based CRPG that has hit these notes since, well darnit, Divinity: Original Sin 2. Lol, but excluding games made by Lariam we are going back to Dragonage: Origins. Yeah yeah, real-time with pause, but I essentially played it as a turn based game. When I look at BG3 for what it was when I stopped playing about 1 week after launch, it had nailed everything that you could ask for out of a true CRPG. l'll admit, real-time with pause would be nice, but besides that, with the understanding that the few quests that weren't finished will obviously be done, and the (what were for me) minor bugs (weird views when panning the camera, certain helmets or armor/clothing pieces making my character appear bald, especially on the Avatar Card page...cough cough...Cyberpunk 2077 Mirrors, Wets suits...cough...) things seemed like they were coming along fantastic. Balance was _decent_ and will never be perfect, no game is, and I'd rather have rule exploits left in than removed or nerfed for people to use as they see fit. People who want a challenge will use things normally, people who want an extreme power fantasy will just use a trainer anyway, so I love that they are just trying to stick as close to the rules as possible and only tweaking things that are just 100% broken without a live D/GM running the session. Lariam sold quite a few copies of D: OS 1, millions of copies of D: OS 2 (which still continues to sell pretty well), yet the BG3 hype has nearly completely fallen off a cliff. I honestly don't get it. A year or so out, with a pretty darn **HUGE** pre-release demo, I'd think that people would be frothing to play this game. Add to that the fact that it runs great on 4 year old $500 HP Desktops (Well, you may want more than the 4/8 A Pavilion Pro offered in 2016 as turns go by much faster with a 6/12 or 8/16 because the AI is pretty damn good and takes a few seconds to make up it's _mind_ sometimes, but graphically a 4GB 570/580 or 3GB 1060 handles what are some damn impressive CRPG graphics very well), I am at a loss as to why more people aren't frothing to play this. With D: OS2 bringing in a ton of new fans, Wast5elands doing exceptional and this being the sequel to **BALDUR's-Fricken_GATE 2/ToB,** yeah, I'd think that more mainstream fans, along with the 8-some-odd million who bought the original BG2, would be banging down Lariam Studio's door. Idk, this is a huge release for me. BG1 essentially got me back into _real_ CRPG's, DA: Origins was the last AAA quality level (or where AAA quality should be) CRPG released until D: OS2 (Yes, Wasteland 2 and D: OS1 were very good, but they didn't have all the QoL that AAA releases have, especially when it comes to voice acting, limited re-use of assets per square meter of game world; the little things that A and AA games typically can't put in the budget) CRPG for, quite literally, a decade! Yes we had New Vegas, The Witcher 2 and 3, 59 Final Fantasies, and a ton of **GREAT** RPG's, but they were all action based with varying degress of that X-Com meets high fantasy/futurism meets a great story that bends, dips, weaves and changes based on small and large dialogue options meets the old Gold box Games meets great animations, voice acting, and a fantastical easy to suspend disbelief world. Yikes that was a mouthful. Anyway, I'm still pretty hyped, and can't wait for the full version to be released. I also have a funny feeling the level cap is going to go way up past the 10/12 they keep toying with. Their worlds are just too big (in a good way) to put a low cap on. Even with a great story, most people don't want to play the last 45 hours of a game at max level. One of the downsides of a huge open-world with a bazillion quests, is some people will do most of them, so the level cap will need to go up...or they can end it early and use the rest for BG4, or and expansion, but I'd rather they just throw the jambalaya in front of us and let us pig out. BG 1 had a lvl cap or 8 and was maybe 15 hours longer than the pre-release version I played (where I capped after roughly half the content, at least XP-wise, skipping the highest level areas pretty much completely). So yep, raise the cap. If they need to pull us back to 10 for a sequel (I'd rather start at 1 with a new character altogether as I'm not a big fan of DnD CRPG's that start near the Epic levels, but that may just be me) then I'm fine with that. There's just so much here already, and you can tell the surface has barely been scratched, a low cap makes just as much sense as how the hype for this game has dropped off; none.
in regard to why people aren't talking about it much yet, is because its single player. In person community will be easier to find once it has been out for a bit and people hear about it from word of mouth. In MMO's and team comp games everyone being ready on release is part of the competition. Not so with place at your own pace single player.
Could Withers be the Withers of Tomb of Annihilation on p 145 and 254 a servant and trap engineer of Acererak? Acererak is an archlich and in his words a creator of gods.
I find it hilarious that Larian makes some undead (the chosen of Jurgal a dead god based on not only the book of dead gods but also the fact that he says I strike thy name from the archives when you choose to revive a companion and also the fact that if you are a cleric and pass a wisdom check dialog with him claiming he has great divine power of that of a chosen of a god to which he replies "I will answer no further questions, in that regard.") dedicated to "balance" yet failed to apply that same logic to druids who lose access to all of their druidic spells if they fail to maintain balance within themselves and instead wrote them as some reclusive savages aside from Halsin no no other druid you meet acts/speaks true to the druidic ways. And no the shadow druids arent actually using druid magic they draw from shadow magic but have some form of twisted druid ideology
Also one more thing he definately isnt a god at least unless Larian also decided to retcon the fact that in 5e DnD Gods cant themselves act in the mortal planes. (anymore) Used to be they could. in i thin 3e and before
here lies the guardian of tombs... that is what is written there, the gradian of tombs is jergal {slade, James Butler (November 1996). Netheril: Empire of Magic (The Winds of Netheril). (TSR, Inc.), pp. 40-42. ISBN 0-7869-0437-2}.
My prediction is that the underlining story is similar to DOS 2 with some slight changes. Baal had spawns. Tadpoles have a spark of divinity. Shadow curse, etc. This is their Fane.
Rly? O_o I save my next play for patch ... this game is awesome, but i try to keep myself from burnout as hard as i can. :D So if i had outdated info, i stand corected. :D
I'm sorry but I can spoil who it is and who sent him for you after digging in the game files. [Spoiler below] [Major Spoiler Alert, datamining included] In the file "CHA_Crypt_Jergal.lsj" (yeah spoiled already), you can find the following dev comment after the script. "After the party has slain a group of undead scholars, the judge of death--Jergal--climbs out of his sarcophagus to greet them. He has been locked inside for years by the god Helm to atone for his part in raising the Dead Three, wicked gods who are now plotting to conquer the realms. Jergal is emotionless and excessively formal, both resigned to his fate and that of others. He is here to assist the party because that is his divine oath, not out of any true desire to act. Players can attempt to goad or attack him, but to minimal effect, as he is functionally immortal. His only goal was to see their faces, so he can find them at camp later to offer further assistance. " In the file "GLO_Jergal_attackedByPlayer.lsj" following dev comment can be found. "AD that plays if the player decides to attack Jergal. Jergal is a god and completely invulnerable, so he sees this entire assault as pointless." Moving to "CAMP_Jergal.lsj" the dev comment don't really reveal anything new. "Jergal, a god of the dead, awaits the player in camp. He is bound by the judgment of another god - Helm - to assist the players as penance for past crimes. He provides resurrection services to the players." There is a cuple of additional scripts but they mostly deal with interactions before the undead are killed and teleport (preventing him from teleporting to camp before you leave area "Avoid dupe"), as well as player and follower reactions/skillcheck towards the Jergal Statue. Anyway with that revealed you where pretty much spot on WolfhearthFPS, just missed a small part of the puzzle :) Edit: just want to link to CHUBBLOT who had similar results, pastebin.com/dawnXzS3
Just to note, the tablets of feat don't have any real important ether then keeping abir and toril separate, Ao was angry on the gods for their behaviour towards their followers, that the gods ceard more for their on need instead of the mortals, that why in the end of the trilogy novels of the time of trubel he destroyed the tablets and change the rules of gods and mortals.
I think it’s presumptuous to assume that this random skeleton is a god, but then again, you have one of Mystral’s ex’s in the party so take everything with a big slab of salt I guess.
He was asked "Are you a chosen of Kelemvor?" to which he replied "No, although Kelemvor chose well to bless one such as yourself." So if he is Kelemvor himself, then he is referring to himself in the third person. Still possible? Of course hence why I stated in the video "this doesn't mean that it can't be Kelemvor."
WolfheartFPS Well I have seen examples of people (both in games and IRL) of people refering to themselves in third person. ;) In games I would even argue that its more common among NPCs with a non standard relation to mortality than among regular people.
@@Sandman75238 maybe I always recruit her at the beach she never tried to kill my MC. I read she'll try to kill you if you don't meet her and recruit her there.
@@demi191 that must be it. She also doesnt like laezel so i tried to party without her but still didn't work. Ill keep trying. Thank you for your help.
I personally don't think it looks too bad but I feel like Larian was too worried about the player being too put off by him if he looked more undead, more creepy/terrifying, things like that. So they decided to make him look just a bit more human.
@@Karak971 There's a problem with the texture though: his skin stop just at the neck and seems to "float" their, like there was still muscles and stuff under it to keep it in place. The line is pretty well defined, too, not at all ragged like decomposing flesh should be. While the part on his actual face is nicely done, the neck does indeed look like an halloween mask.
Click read more for datamined information about this NPC. Spoiler warning. Yes, the NPC is Jergal. "Jergal, a god of the dead, awaits the player in camp. He is bound by the judgment of another god - Helm - to assist the players as penance for past crimes. He provides resurrection services to the players."
@WolfHeartFPS The skeleton is NIOT wearing a hood! Secondly he is most likely Vecna or a servant of Vecna trying to find his hand and eye (that's my guess anyway).
I have a question for all the people that have been following and or even playing BG3. I’m a huge fan of the original series, does this “bg3” game have anything to do with the original series? Seems like there are no old NPCs, barely any references, and zero meaningful connection to the originals.
Supposedly, this happens in Faerun and once you get past Ch. 4 then you will get to the city of Baldur's Gate. But any of the original NPC's and connection to the originals? I haven't seen any yet. The Underdark is there but the rest with NPC's? Nah. I do hope they do something about it otherwise it *will* feel like a BG skin over Divinity which will keep me from picking up BG3. And, also supposedly, this - BG3 - is set 100 years ahead of the end of BG2. So.. maybe no one lives that long? Though you'd think someone would.
At the end of bg2 TOB it lists credits and little short epilogs of the different character's endings. It does have some of them die of old age. other simply disappear.
@@amysthe-wise-one8493 Throne of Bhaal happened in 1369 DR. Descent into Avernus, a tabletop prequel to BG3 is set in 1494DR. So 125 years later. So we’re likely around 130 years after the end of BG2:ToB. It’s not that long for a dwarf or an elf but off the top of my head I can’t see one that is likely to appear in the game.
bro i enjoy your vids saw a few of your pathfinder wrath of rightous ones but i dont enjoy seeing your face, nothing wrong with it but if i wanted to "interact" or see a human face i wouldnt be sitting here watching baldurs gate 3 vids i always have to scroll down to watch it
This guys is just a joke NPC right? He looks exactly like Fane from DOS2. He even has the gold just like the Eternals from DOS2. I could never take this guy serious if he was an actual NPC in the game.
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Maybe he's a mummified Aasimar? (God am i bad at name) or just a mummified Devine touched
Or a friendly lich (or is it lych...?)
man, 2 from 3 gods are dead and they can't work together then your theory is a trash, and if you don't know Myrkul created spirit-eater curse to maintain his existance in Mask of the Betrayer, it's another fact to destroy your theory
That's definitely Jergal. Why else he would be in a Jergal temple. In the agree with you, Jergal is definately instructed, either by AO or Kelemvor. I think there is a divine plot going on and the player is in the middle of it:
1) the game promote certain pieces of Forgotten Realms lore more than other to set the scene: Dead Three (Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal) and Shar/Selune . that's a chekhov's gun.
2) we know that tadpole's are infused with shadow magic, which is difference than regular magic. Regular Magic is based on Waeve (Mystra) and Shadow Magic is based on Shadow Weave, controlled by Shar. This brings the question whether mind flayers are in cahoots with Shar. Shadow Magic cannot be undone with regular magic. The party will need a spellcaster that uses Shadow Magic to get rid of the tadpoles. Also, Shar being the goddess of secret, I assume her clergy won't be aware of her plot, hence Shadowheart's lack of knowledge in this topic.
That last bit is especially true since Shadow mentions that her memory has been partially wiped by the temple of Shar
Also shadowheart isn't high up on the church, so isn't likely to be involved in any plots. I think this is what is likely to turn her away from shar if you keep working on her. Bit likenin dragonage, where you can harden or soften the companions
there is always the chance that this is just a priest of jergal. like a devine magic version of a lich, i think that is what mummies are in DnD.
@@alex-uw4mm True but nothing we've ever read (at least to my knowledge) would lead us to believe any of those mummies are invulnerable.
Well we can say for certain that it is not the physical form of Jergal because per D&D lore, deities cannot take physical form on the physical plane. They can only act through champions and avatars. So at best he may be an avatar of Jergal.
The question of the Hooded skelly sounded for me as a homage to the "what can change the nature of a man" question from another D&D game
Anything that you think can, can. Planescape Torment
Maybe he's a miniature giant space hamster in disguise.
whoa... time to rethink the analysis
Or he could be morte after he found his body
No Fizz, he can't be Boo
@@단승호 but he can be morte
DON'T TEACH MY HAMSTER TO SUCK EGGS!
Unfortunately I dont know enough about Baldurs Gate and D&D lore to give any theory's but this shit was interesting and getting me more hyped about the game. Thank you !!
No problem happy to hear. Thanks for watching.
why do you call it "shit" then?
@@t-love8351 An exaggeration and term term for excitment
one of the best early acces title ive seen, it even has its own little mysteries
4:32 there’s also a dialogue for your cleric character that plays when you enter the chapel first.. something along the lines of ‘I can feel divine presence’ where shadow heart chimes in about who is that patron god
This analysis is so good it needs a part 2.
thanks Mark
I'm finding it hard to keep playing this game in early access. Now I can see why some people are waiting for the full experience
Following previous comment:
3) The game also talks about Sundering. during the event of the Sundering, Shar was a major deity. She used the Shadow Magic and Shadovar Netherese empire to expand her rule. At the end of the Sundering, the Netherese lost, and her power has been reduced significantly by AO. It is only normal that she will plot a comeback.
4) The Dead Three were powerful deities prior to Time of Trouble (happened before the Sundering) at the end of which they were dead. by the end of the Sundering they are back but reduced to average/minor deities. It is fair to assume that they are plotting a comeback. BG I & II were about Bhaal's plot to come back as a deity.
5) All other major deities like Mystra, Kelemvor will oppose a Shar & Dead Three plot
bhaal is a deity now
Thanks for the video - it got me thinking about my last playthrough where I found a book in the Dank Crypt across from the entrance above a chest. The book (On Death & Resurrection) is an excerpt from the ongoing Metatext that is rebound by Losefa Eglin who was excommunicated from the Church of Deneir. The first line is "Of what value a life?" - I would love to hear your thoughts on how this plays into the bigger picture you laid out in this video
BTW I think that is the nerdiest thing I've ever written... kind of proud of that ;)
I'm new to the Balders Gate world and loving all of the lore . You really put a ton of time and effort into these videos and it's much appreciated.
I don't think he is Jergal. I think he is a Chosen of Jergal. The temple he is buried in is likely very very old, Jergal has been a small power since he relinquished his position to the Dead Three, sometime around the fall of Netheril. I believe that whoever hthe hooded skeleton is, he is a Chosen that Jergal "stored" in the temple way way back then, as a failsafe of sort against an event he knew was coming. Why do I believe that?
1°) first, there is the quote on the sarcophagus "here lies the guardian of tombs. Through knowledge comes atonement." If the body in the tomb is Jergal, it makes no sense: why would a god need atonement through knowledge? Instead I think the guardian of tombs is a title of a high ranking priest of Jergal. The fact that he is entombed in a temple of his god with a cadre of skeleton (who were likely former members of Jergal"s clergy, considering the place they were in and the fact they animated when his tomb was disturbed) land the fact that he needs "atonement through knowledge" likely comes from him having displeased Jergal and Jergal having punished him by revealing a secret unfit for mortal ears to him and then emprisonning him until said secret would play out. This knowledge also explains why he doesn't want to be here but thinks he has to.
2°) Neither Ao nor Kelemvor are likely to use Jergal as a patsy to go against the Dead Three. Both are big boys with their own avatars and means of action. If Kelemvor wanted to go against the Dead Three, he would send one of his own avatars (he knows that Jergal used to serve Myrkul and is a previous god of death, he also knows that Jergal is all in all a rather passive deity). Ao would simply blast the Dead Three to kingdom come. Furthermore whatever the Dead Three have planned, it's unlikely to stir Ao to react: he barely batted an eye when Cyric freed Kezef, killed Leira, Mask and Mystra or wrote the Cyrinishad. The only thing that seems to make him react is a conflict between Gods and Primordials: he separated Abeir from Toril to prevent a war and was pissed someone touched the Tablets of Fate because it ended up bringing the two planets together again.
We also know that a Chosen that has displeased his divinity can't be "unchosen": Samaster, a Chosen of Mystra, became completely insane upon the power of the godess entering him and created the Cult of the Dragon and invented the Dracoliches. Mystra was unable to do anything about it and it was Lathander that had to step in and blast him through an avatar.
Btw, why did I mention Netheril in this? The Temple of Jergal, while not really big, is clearly well equipped. It’s full stone with carvings and beautiful statues and could clearly house several dozen people.
Jergal is currently a demigod (in fact, in older editions, he wasn’t even that: he was an exarch, a kind of divine being that takes his power from a god and is worshipped as part of their clergy. He was to the god of Death kinda like Saint-Peter to Jesus: a servant with great abilities but not quite divine). A demigod in DnD has a few hundred to a few thousands worshippers. That seems like a big place of worship for such a small church, especially in the wilderness like that. That’s why I believe that this church of Jergal may date back to before the advent of the Dead Three, when Jergal was still a major deity with millions of worshippers.The Dead Three became gods at an unspecified date but soon after the fall of Netheril, likely around -330 DR. So the church is around 2000 years old which, considering its state, is not impossible.
Fairly sure the dude's Jergal and that Helm put him there to wait for you.
This would fit my theory that the Dark Urges story of the game is Jergal wanting to take back his power from The Dead Three.
This Avatar of Jergal is there to assist us in our battle against The Dead Three, and the Dark Urges path is us giving in to Jergal to become cruel and destructive enough to face them, and perhaps us even becoming an Avatar of Jergal or Jergal himself. If we go evil enough, and we can kill The Dead Three and take their power, become a god, as Larian hinted, that we actually become Jergal himself.
Love it man!!! So much to think about!
"Hooded" skeleton? Am I missing something?
Yeah, he most definitely doesn’t have a hood and is not a skeleton.
@@Razor1138 he is called this in the game, I didn't make it up lol
@@WolfheartFPS Fair enough...I still say he's a Lich.
maybe the hood is referring to the flesh covering only his head
@@Razor1138 i would rather think he is some kind of mummy cause being able to ressurect ppl sounds like a cleric thing not a wizard spell
i saw the video 2 years ago.. came back to check the NPC... and i am again amazed how many dialogue options there are
I think it’s a archlynch, possibly a Priest of Jurgal that vomited a grave offense out of ignorance, that amulet may be his phlactory
He appeared to me after TPK in the caves behind the Druid Grove. After that he remained in my camp.
Wolfheart this is one of the best videos you have made...watched it multiple times.
Thanks for the feedback! Glad you enjoyed it
Well mistra and kelemvor were lovers when human when she was known as midnight, so could be her to stops you going splat
TL;DR He is 100% either Jergal himself or one of his clergy, the Scriveners of Doom. He is found in a crypt in what is obviously a Temple of Jergal, and when he resurrects party members he says "By Doom and Dusk, i strike thy name from the Archives! Rise!", actively naming three things that are associated with Jergal: Doom, as in the Scriveners of Doom, and Dusk, as in the time of the day when Scriveners pray for their spells, and the Archives, which is where they record the names of the dead.
For context, here are direct quotes from the forgotten realms wiki:
"The church of Jergal is small and secretive, a rigidly organized, almost monastic order of scribes known as the Scriveners of Doom. Based largely in lifeless stone mausoleums and dry, dusty crypts, its members spend their days maintaining and extending vast archives of scrolls listing how sentients under their purview passed away and their destination in the afterlife."
"Clerics of Jergal pray for their spells at dusk, a time of day representative of the end of life."
Seems to me like Larian pretty much read this wiki page and lifted the details straight from it! One reason i think he could be Jergal himself is that he actually voluntarily stepped down from his post out of boredom, giving his powers to the Dead Three. That means he has the opportunity and motive to stir up some shit in the material plane. On the other hand, as you mentioned he says that he's not there voluntarily, which points towards him being ordered by Kelemvor.
Thanks for another great video!
Man, imagine the look on my face when I came to this conclusion on my own and find videos of others who also pieced it together: minor vindication!
Also, consider this: think about the temple door when we first meet Shadowheart. There is a Netherese sigil sitting right next to it. Considering that Jergal was a greater deity during the age of Netheril, it hints at our friend indeed being Jergal since that is when he was worshipped most.
Anyway, good content as always!
How many dialogue variations this game has? I played for tens of hours and I still find new stuff and now I see even more new stuff...
Loved this video! It will make that NPC and the story so much interesting. Thank you for sharing your lore knowledge with us!
No problem George thanks for watching
Dang I missed the scene where you meet this guy but saw him at camp & resurrecting party members. Cool trying to guess his lore.
Wow man love the in depth work checking it out with different characters and all. Well done, thanks for the lore videos :-).
Hey, it's Fane from divinity original sin 2. ;p
08:39 ~ it is important to note that @WolfheartFPS is forgetting that undead male says his presence at the camp is not his choice. That makes his statement about being Merkal rather odd, as he could still be Merkal, because saying Merkal is walking a very different path is meaningless, as he is not there by choice… 😅
🌒🌕🌘
Don't know if it is possible but would love a twist where it is the protagonist from BG1 and 2. An alternate ending/ continuation of a story where the protagonist from BG1 and 2 failed to replace Bhaal. BG3 being a plot that happens because of a fallen hero's story would be new. He gives off the vibe of a student of Gorion and his "situation" might be demigod/torn soul after his interaction with Jon Irenicus. not likely to be right yet would be something we haven't seen before.
Maybe if he was played as Evil and ascended, Solar wasn't by his side and thus torn, torn in the fight with Melissan and didn't take over to Cyric thus relegated to avatar. Either way...
dude wtf ? nope pls
@@arielsoler2504 Please, come on we have never picked up a franchise's continuation from where a prior story's hero fell. We always pick up where the "antagonist" just "magically comes back.
no lore video today but fortunately I stumbled on this, even our fireplace is here :)
haha I know. I was in belgium visiting Larian!
Oh, I missed lore videos so much; I would say that Jyrgal seems the most likely option at the moment
then we shall do some more!
Thanks, @@WolfheartFPS , on your way to your 50k billions ;-)
Spoiler miners working; Kelemvor wouldn't assume a form of undead I am pretty sure
I don't blame anyone, @@topmackl ^_^
great vid. never thought of it but you bring up a good point about nergal
I wonder if the Absolute has something to do with Myrkul, and maybe Bane also, as those who wear the symbol of the Ansolute have something representing a skull in a triangle which is very close to the symbol Myrkul, but wil also a raised hand which is the symbole of Bane.
Along with the third god of the Dead Three, Bhaal, they are Quasi-Dieties in the 5th Edition, so they might plot for more power. After all it's more or less the same story for Bhaal in the first Baldur's Gate who did plot his come back from divine death.
I know this may be a little off topic, but is there any news on an update for the game? Last I heard there was supposed to be a big update after the holidays, possibly new classes/races? Anything beyond that? Any info is greatly appreciated! Love the DnD lore videos and pretty much everything about Baldur's Gate, very interesting!
The "Absolute" also have 3 leading figures. Not much to go on, but could pay homage to the dead three.
I put 35 hours or so into BG3, then stopped, doing 90% of the overland quests (for 1 run, I know different choices would have opened up other quests/options) and maybe 1% of the underdark. I idn't stop bc of bugs, and I was a day 1 downloader. I stopped because the game was so good I didn't want to miss out on too many *_*"First Kiss"*_* experiences so-to-speak. I hit the original lvl 4 soft lvl. cap and called it a day essentially.
What I don't understand is why more people aren't going nuts in anticipation over this game. Wastelands 3 was received exceptionally well, and as much as I really, really enjoyed it (best RPG of 2020 _imo,)_ but it still wasn't quite up to the BG3 lvl. Actually, I don't think there has been a true turn based CRPG that has hit these notes since, well darnit, Divinity: Original Sin 2. Lol, but excluding games made by Lariam we are going back to Dragonage: Origins. Yeah yeah, real-time with pause, but I essentially played it as a turn based game. When I look at BG3 for what it was when I stopped playing about 1 week after launch, it had nailed everything that you could ask for out of a true CRPG. l'll admit, real-time with pause would be nice, but besides that, with the understanding that the few quests that weren't finished will obviously be done, and the (what were for me) minor bugs (weird views when panning the camera, certain helmets or armor/clothing pieces making my character appear bald, especially on the Avatar Card page...cough cough...Cyberpunk 2077 Mirrors, Wets suits...cough...) things seemed like they were coming along fantastic. Balance was _decent_ and will never be perfect, no game is, and I'd rather have rule exploits left in than removed or nerfed for people to use as they see fit. People who want a challenge will use things normally, people who want an extreme power fantasy will just use a trainer anyway, so I love that they are just trying to stick as close to the rules as possible and only tweaking things that are just 100% broken without a live D/GM running the session.
Lariam sold quite a few copies of D: OS 1, millions of copies of D: OS 2 (which still continues to sell pretty well), yet the BG3 hype has nearly completely fallen off a cliff. I honestly don't get it. A year or so out, with a pretty darn **HUGE** pre-release demo, I'd think that people would be frothing to play this game. Add to that the fact that it runs great on 4 year old $500 HP Desktops (Well, you may want more than the 4/8 A Pavilion Pro offered in 2016 as turns go by much faster with a 6/12 or 8/16 because the AI is pretty damn good and takes a few seconds to make up it's _mind_ sometimes, but graphically a 4GB 570/580 or 3GB 1060 handles what are some damn impressive CRPG graphics very well), I am at a loss as to why more people aren't frothing to play this.
With D: OS2 bringing in a ton of new fans, Wast5elands doing exceptional and this being the sequel to **BALDUR's-Fricken_GATE 2/ToB,** yeah, I'd think that more mainstream fans, along with the 8-some-odd million who bought the original BG2, would be banging down Lariam Studio's door.
Idk, this is a huge release for me. BG1 essentially got me back into _real_ CRPG's, DA: Origins was the last AAA quality level (or where AAA quality should be) CRPG released until D: OS2 (Yes, Wasteland 2 and D: OS1 were very good, but they didn't have all the QoL that AAA releases have, especially when it comes to voice acting, limited re-use of assets per square meter of game world; the little things that A and AA games typically can't put in the budget) CRPG for, quite literally, a decade! Yes we had New Vegas, The Witcher 2 and 3, 59 Final Fantasies, and a ton of **GREAT** RPG's, but they were all action based with varying degress of that X-Com meets high fantasy/futurism meets a great story that bends, dips, weaves and changes based on small and large dialogue options meets the old Gold box Games meets great animations, voice acting, and a fantastical easy to suspend disbelief world. Yikes that was a mouthful.
Anyway, I'm still pretty hyped, and can't wait for the full version to be released. I also have a funny feeling the level cap is going to go way up past the 10/12 they keep toying with. Their worlds are just too big (in a good way) to put a low cap on. Even with a great story, most people don't want to play the last 45 hours of a game at max level. One of the downsides of a huge open-world with a bazillion quests, is some people will do most of them, so the level cap will need to go up...or they can end it early and use the rest for BG4, or and expansion, but I'd rather they just throw the jambalaya in front of us and let us pig out. BG 1 had a lvl cap or 8 and was maybe 15 hours longer than the pre-release version I played (where I capped after roughly half the content, at least XP-wise, skipping the highest level areas pretty much completely). So yep, raise the cap. If they need to pull us back to 10 for a sequel (I'd rather start at 1 with a new character altogether as I'm not a big fan of DnD CRPG's that start near the Epic levels, but that may just be me) then I'm fine with that. There's just so much here already, and you can tell the surface has barely been scratched, a low cap makes just as much sense as how the hype for this game has dropped off; none.
in regard to why people aren't talking about it much yet, is because its single player. In person community will be easier to find once it has been out for a bit and people hear about it from word of mouth. In MMO's and team comp games everyone being ready on release is part of the competition. Not so with place at your own pace single player.
Well done ! Your theory is really good.
really enjoyed the vid, good content.
I disagree. I think Kith’rak Voss is, by far, the most interesting and best voice acted character in the early access.
Kithraks character seems to be pretty straight forward. This video was more so about NPCs who have a ton of mystery behind them
Keep grinding!
He’s A LICH! (Also, you can pick pocket him and get a few resurrection scrolls)
a lich isn't divine as far i know
Actually, this video seems to be getting relatively popular for the lore one; that's cool
Could Withers be the Withers of Tomb of Annihilation on p 145 and 254 a servant and trap engineer of Acererak? Acererak is an archlich and in his words a creator of gods.
I find it hilarious that Larian makes some undead (the chosen of Jurgal a dead god based on not only the book of dead gods but also the fact that he says I strike thy name from the archives when you choose to revive a companion and also the fact that if you are a cleric and pass a wisdom check dialog with him claiming he has great divine power of that of a chosen of a god to which he replies "I will answer no further questions, in that regard.") dedicated to "balance" yet failed to apply that same logic to druids who lose access to all of their druidic spells if they fail to maintain balance within themselves and instead wrote them as some reclusive savages aside from Halsin no no other druid you meet acts/speaks true to the druidic ways. And no the shadow druids arent actually using druid magic they draw from shadow magic but have some form of twisted druid ideology
And why? all to give you access to resurrections without needing scrolls or a high level cleric as it should be in any DnD style game
Also one more thing he definately isnt a god at least unless Larian also decided to retcon the fact that in 5e DnD Gods cant themselves act in the mortal planes. (anymore) Used to be they could. in i thin 3e and before
here lies the guardian of tombs... that is what is written there, the gradian of tombs is jergal {slade, James Butler (November 1996). Netheril: Empire of Magic (The Winds of Netheril). (TSR, Inc.), pp. 40-42. ISBN 0-7869-0437-2}.
Good find!
The thing that saved your from fall damage after
Nautiloid crash was a tadpole itself, I think that was already explained.
This is a possibility, but when was it explained to our character? I don't recall that.
My prediction is that the underlining story is similar to DOS 2 with some slight changes. Baal had spawns. Tadpoles have a spark of divinity. Shadow curse, etc. This is their Fane.
Volo also is super intriguing, though not as much interesting :P
Speaking of, Harbs Narbs did a lore special about Volo recently :
th-cam.com/video/M5HZmzhmLUI/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=HarbsNarbs
Apparently it's Jergal.
He appears to be more of a wight than a pure skeleton.
It’s Fane. They brought Fane back lol
The bigest mistery about hooded skeleton is why is he called hooded skeleton, when he is not wearing hood, nor he is skeleton. :D
Lol they actually changed this with an update
Rly? O_o
I save my next play for patch ... this game is awesome, but i try to keep myself from burnout as hard as i can. :D
So if i had outdated info, i stand corected. :D
He’s now the “talkative skeleton” haha
Is he maybe a baelnorn lich?
Definitely shaping up to be a great game!
I cant wait for this game to be in full release, im not playing EA so i dont ruin my full game experience
hell yeah!
I'm sorry but I can spoil who it is and who sent him for you after digging in the game files.
[Spoiler below]
[Major Spoiler Alert, datamining included]
In the file "CHA_Crypt_Jergal.lsj" (yeah spoiled already), you can find the following dev comment after the script.
"After the party has slain a group of undead scholars, the judge of death--Jergal--climbs out of his sarcophagus to greet them. He has been locked inside for years by the god Helm to atone for his part in raising the Dead Three, wicked gods who are now plotting to conquer the realms. Jergal is emotionless and excessively formal, both resigned to his fate and that of others. He is here to assist the party because that is his divine oath, not out of any true desire to act. Players can attempt to goad or attack him, but to minimal effect, as he is functionally immortal. His only goal was to see their faces, so he can find them at camp later to offer further assistance. "
In the file "GLO_Jergal_attackedByPlayer.lsj" following dev comment can be found.
"AD that plays if the player decides to attack Jergal. Jergal is a god and completely invulnerable, so he sees this entire assault as pointless."
Moving to "CAMP_Jergal.lsj" the dev comment don't really reveal anything new.
"Jergal, a god of the dead, awaits the player in camp. He is bound by the judgment of another god - Helm - to assist the players as penance for past crimes. He provides resurrection services to the players."
There is a cuple of additional scripts but they mostly deal with interactions before the undead are killed and teleport (preventing him from teleporting to camp before you leave area "Avoid dupe"), as well as player and follower reactions/skillcheck towards the Jergal Statue.
Anyway with that revealed you where pretty much spot on WolfhearthFPS, just missed a small part of the puzzle :)
Edit: just want to link to CHUBBLOT who had similar results, pastebin.com/dawnXzS3
Just to note, the tablets of feat don't have any real important ether then keeping abir and toril separate, Ao was angry on the gods for their behaviour towards their followers, that the gods ceard more for their on need instead of the mortals, that why in the end of the trilogy novels of the time of trubel he destroyed the tablets and change the rules of gods and mortals.
I think it’s presumptuous to assume that this random skeleton is a god, but then again, you have one of Mystral’s ex’s in the party so take everything with a big slab of salt I guess.
I'm just here for the ride
He is jergal for sure 100%
কিপ ইউপিভিতে কন্টেন্ট সির!!
Wait, how does his answer exclude him being Kelemvor? If he is Kelemvor hw would not be a chosen of himself right? ^^
He was asked "Are you a chosen of Kelemvor?" to which he replied "No, although Kelemvor chose well to bless one such as yourself." So if he is Kelemvor himself, then he is referring to himself in the third person. Still possible? Of course hence why I stated in the video "this doesn't mean that it can't be Kelemvor."
WolfheartFPS
Well I have seen examples of people (both in games and IRL) of people refering to themselves in third person. ;)
In games I would even argue that its more common among NPCs with a non standard relation to mortality than among regular people.
@@pontusvongeijer1240 also it was common in nobility to referring in third person.
This guy may well be Jergal…
Thank so much.. got Lore +1
You are the best.
Does he show up at your camp if you miss his encounter in the crypt?
He should yes
Great video, how did you get shadowhart to join your party. She says yes to join but will not come with me. Possible bug ?
Did you tell another companion to stay in camp before asking her to join? If so try reloading another save.
@@demi191 yes only had 3 in my party. Reloaded from a prior save. But she says. Ill see you on the road but still 3 in my party.
Does it have anything to do with the fact that she join my camp and i had to talk her out of killing me
@@Sandman75238 maybe I always recruit her at the beach she never tried to kill my MC. I read she'll try to kill you if you don't meet her and recruit her there.
@@demi191 that must be it. She also doesnt like laezel so i tried to party without her but still didn't work. Ill keep trying. Thank you for your help.
I can’t hear the word Jergal again lol
This game is so good, loving your content!
I like him but the model looks terrible. it looks like a skeleton is wearing a halloween mask
THIS!
I personally don't think it looks too bad but I feel like Larian was too worried about the player being too put off by him if he looked more undead, more creepy/terrifying, things like that. So they decided to make him look just a bit more human.
@@Karak971 There's a problem with the texture though: his skin stop just at the neck and seems to "float" their, like there was still muscles and stuff under it to keep it in place. The line is pretty well defined, too, not at all ragged like decomposing flesh should be. While the part on his actual face is nicely done, the neck does indeed look like an halloween mask.
@@TheLokiel hm I hadnt noticed that during my playthroughs, ill have to look again
@@Karak971 No need, you can see it in this video. Just look here: th-cam.com/video/vtJe0vmHKFM/w-d-xo.html
Why was his character not finished? No hood, skin on face then skeleton body?
Click read more for datamined information about this NPC. Spoiler warning.
Yes, the NPC is Jergal.
"Jergal, a god of the dead, awaits the player in camp. He is bound by the judgment of another god - Helm - to assist the players as penance for past crimes. He provides resurrection services to the players."
goddess Lara, the raider of tombs!
loll
@WolfHeartFPS The skeleton is NIOT wearing a hood! Secondly he is most likely Vecna or a servant of Vecna trying to find his hand and eye (that's my guess anyway).
He isn’t!? 😂 lol I know but he is actually still called the hooded skeleton in the game.
@@WolfheartFPS NOPE, he's called the "Talkative Skeleton" .
He is the talkative skeleton at camp but the hooded skeleton in the crypt.
@@WolfheartFPS ok
@@WolfheartFPS I'll talk to him at the graveyard dinner tonight...lol
I don’t think AO would give a hoot about any of this
looking forward to trolls and illithids as playable character races. i'll happily trade humans, elves and hobbits for that option!
Jergal is the best.
I have a question for all the people that have been following and or even playing BG3. I’m a huge fan of the original series, does this “bg3” game have anything to do with the original series? Seems like there are no old NPCs, barely any references, and zero meaningful connection to the originals.
So far, no.
Supposedly, this happens in Faerun and once you get past Ch. 4 then you will get to the city of Baldur's Gate. But any of the original NPC's and connection to the originals? I haven't seen any yet. The Underdark is there but the rest with NPC's? Nah. I do hope they do something about it otherwise it *will* feel like a BG skin over Divinity which will keep me from picking up BG3.
And, also supposedly, this - BG3 - is set 100 years ahead of the end of BG2. So.. maybe no one lives that long? Though you'd think someone would.
At the end of bg2 TOB it lists credits and little short epilogs of the different character's endings. It does have some of them die of old age. other simply disappear.
@@amysthe-wise-one8493 Throne of Bhaal happened in 1369 DR. Descent into Avernus, a tabletop prequel to BG3 is set in 1494DR. So 125 years later. So we’re likely around 130 years after the end of BG2:ToB. It’s not that long for a dwarf or an elf but off the top of my head I can’t see one that is likely to appear in the game.
The Skeleton is Jergal. Oh yeah, Spoiler alert. Also the overgod AO is (Alpha Omega)
Fane!
It is just a free ress scroll. Tha's all.
It’s vecna
Fails isnt pronounced fells its FEYLS
Yea I always screw that one up. Mouth doesn’t like to move that way (it’s kind of an accent thing)
@@WolfheartFPS lmao where are you from?
Update central New York area
@@WolfheartFPS thats a spicy accent mate. But i love ur content even if some words are pronounced stragely haha. You make goooood ass content man
Much appreciated
bro i enjoy your vids saw a few of your pathfinder wrath of rightous ones but i dont enjoy seeing your face, nothing wrong with it but if i wanted to "interact" or see a human face i wouldnt be sitting here watching baldurs gate 3 vids i always have to scroll down to watch it
Jergal
or his avatar
Why is its model so bad? Skin ends at necks end, bandages on its arms levitating in the air... Its so lame in a game of 2020.
Lame for a game in early access ?
@@WolfheartFPS Yes.
@@silurusdominus tough crowd!
This guys is just a joke NPC right? He looks exactly like Fane from DOS2. He even has the gold just like the Eternals from DOS2. I could never take this guy serious if he was an actual NPC in the game.
Ok.
this game sucks
He is not hooded 😂
Amazing video as per usual
Thanks. That is what he was called back then