What an incredibly articulate and intelligent person she is. Its a pleasure to hear her speak because she does so with unparalleled clarity. Fascinating and informative.
She has a lovely, light, positive way of presenting her thoughts. Very intriguing dialogue with the host as well. Long form discussions like these make my commute go from too long to too short. Sitting in my parking space listening to another 10 minutes before I go inside.
Truth be told - they probably swear like truck drivers, and she suffers the same maladies that her kind suffer every month. So what else is new. Meditation can't cure everything.
Agreed. I won't give thumbs up for a pretty face, as that's an accident of birth. But her brilliant intellect is hers, and it's a beautiful thing in a woman.
@@nervinokaras Respectfully, I don't agree. Barring birth defects, I believe that everyone is born with great, unlimited potential. and that it's development depends on parenting, home environment, education and other societal influences. As well, I'm with Rupert Sheldrake and other cutting-edge researchers - the brain, as an organ, does not generate consciousness, but is the recipient of consciousness. Some people have learned how to connect with that "out there" better than others, but we can all connect.
I can see where it's not just shared interest, they actually make a cute couple in the sense that they're both share the same sort of koala-ish Mediterranean features..
@@markj7612 She would probably say her intellect was an accident of birth and circumstance. Since she doesn't believe in free will, ultimately everything that happens is a combination of determinism and randomness - you don't choose your parents, your upbringing, or time and place of your existence. But, I agree she is a brilliant person!
A very important subject that does not require understanding of why, but rather how to stay in attention and awareness to experience life fully. Knowing how to meditate and doing so seems to be the stepping stone to prepare for this state of sustained consciousness, rather than occasional consciousness that is recognized and identified.
She's captivating. Often, you'll watch her so much that you'll forget what she's saying. Now, I know why the skeptical Sam was able to give in. Home Sam, you get this one right man.
Excellent, non-dogmatic discussion, thanks. According to Vedanta and Buddhism, consciousness is independent of the body, and is the single awareness in which every experience occurs. Our local consciousness is “a reflection “ of this one consciousness in some way I frankly don’t grasp. The key is not the smell of coffee but the AWARENESS of the smell of coffee or not.
Lol, ever heard of the egg theory? This one consciousness live all lives that have been and will be, so its really just one of us here... and it exist outside space-time, so it can live all lives.
Cognitive scientist Donald D. Hoffmans theory that space time is doomed and consciousness is fundamental: creating it all, preceding the big bang has my attention.
Brett Hayvice - Yes, it a is very intriguing concept that I am starting to research also. However, I’m concerned this idea might be placing humans back up on a pedestal - the one we just got them down from - after thousands of years of religious dogma saying we are all the sons of a particular, imaginary ‘god.’ We’re told that women are here only to serve men and bear their children, and man has dominion over all (other) animals. The harm that has resulted from these iron-age ideas still continue to destroy untold countless lives. Many scientists are not anxious to go back to another ego-stroking idea that is unfounded on anything other than the timeless desire to feel special, gain power, and manipulate others.
Naked Singularity Asking whether or not consciousness is fundamental has nothing whatsoever to do with the primitive musings of the Bronze Age man. This is a category error.
What beautiful smiles, both of you! I love this conversation, and I wish I could have one like this with my wife. I love conversations like this...why does it chalk up to a fantasy at this point? How long does a moment last? In infinity, wouldn't there be just one, eternal moment? Damn, her laugh is like a a cluster of flowers, dancing among the grasses on a gentle slope of a great mountain in a sweet summer breeze, clouds drift happily above, occasionally giving shade to the stoic rocks, nestled amongst the trees....a deer, a bird too far in the distance to identify gliding freely, the trees whispering secrets yet to deep for the fragile human mind to grasp, but giving rise to joy beyond the mundane... Thanks Annaka, and Rich, much love to both of you ❤
Maybe you can help me out here...I might be missing something, but I'm getting the impression that her position is grounded in an assumption of consciousness somehow arising from matter? that the universe/big bang, all this happened and this is an exploration into theories of the nature of consciousness based on an assumption that matter precedes consciousness...?
@@esr71 She does come from a strictly Western rationality framework so yes, she would assume matter is all there is. However she does maintain an ipen mind by saying consciousness is still a mysterie and not proven to be linked to our neurology. In more recent discussion with Donald Hoffman she seems very receptive to his notion that what we perceive as reality is not reality at all. But as it stands I think she is still looking at it from a dualistic point of view. Just my interpretation from listening to a lot of discussions she had over the years, which I recently listened to.
I appreciate this conversation and I have great respect and admiration for RR and the podcast. I am just getting to know Annaka - in her own right. She is pleasant, patient, well-spoken and obviously passionate about her subject of study. I am only 27 minutes in... but I have to say, I didn't love the comment 'your husband has written many books about this so its not that new to anyone coming to you via him.' This came across a little bit like an invalidation of what she said and her work/book. Maybe I am being too sensitive on her behalf...
Amazing! Really enjoyed listening to you both dancing and exploring for over an hour. Time passed quickly. Thank you so much. As a meditator for over 20 years and interested in exploring beyond the mind via Enneagram, etc, I was hoping Annaka would throw some light on what is beyond the egoistic mind...perhaps a different kind of consciousness which in my view gives us a compass to live our life which does not harm other people, animals and the environment...and seek truth. Perhaps this is an inquiry through another book.
absolutely love this topic! only 2minutes into this podcast, and she asks the question about whether you were interested in the topic before reading the book etc and almost immediately i could feel this influx of consciousness pouring into my thoughts... I got the sense that "this" was an extremely vital and important experience allowing me to see parts of the story in a little more clarity and was able to connect important links that are in alignment to my exploration of what consciousness is... such an amazing experience to connect with and a great thing to able to hear another talking about these incredibly complex things that are interconnected with the knowledge, wisdom and teachings of my ancestors and the culture i grew up in. I am still very much a learner but a fixated, willing pupil to learn more about our states of consciousness and how it could be expressed through artworks (it helps me to unravel these mysteries that are super hard to explain in words.lol) I am a contemporary Maori artist living in New Zealand, my bloodline connects me to both Ireland and our Maori culture, however i affiliate more with the indigenous people of the land. Most of my art work is a reflection of things my Maori ancestors passed on to future descendants and i find myself delving deeper into the mystery of "consciousness" in both physical and spiritual forms....each page shedding new light of innerstanding and making more and more sense as we progress. Thank you Rich for creating and sharing this Podcast. Thank you Annaka for your openism.... I am now officially your number one fan :D
adding to the experience of this connection and insights currently being received, we have a belief system and understanding that we have two rivers of energy that exists within each and everyone of us, we call it Wairua, literally translates to as the two rivers...in this case, whilst listening to this podcast, I can now confidently say with absolute conviction, the maori term Wairua, (the two rivers) is a poetical expression that literally describes the physical stream of consciousness and the spiritual stream of consciousness that interconnect and overlap within each other and.... towards other consciousness that are open and receptive to it....ohhh we are just warming up! :D lol
From the outside in my case, I was seven years old and I made a conscious resolution of Intent that I couldn’t change the outcome and outside can circumstances that impacted us but I could save my family by my actions and what I did to imply that no one else in my family would ever have to suffer again after that in future so that is why I do what I do.
I have always been attracted to the mystery of experience because it is a well known fact that you can create feeling states in many ways - dancing, running, different ways of focussing, and many other ways. We are cocreators of both our own but also of the experiences of other living beings. - and consciousness is definitely more than the brain 🙃🎶💜🎵🦄
Annaka and this interview are both pure gold. I've never heard of her before, but she speaks the language of my heart so well. Wait, she's married to Sam Harris?! That man has great taste! ... On a more serious note: One way to externally check for the presence of consciousness in a species: Do members of that species toil away for years, scratching their heads, wondering what can cause them to not only behave, but to experience. That's not going to help us with cats and dogs, unfortunately, but if we ever come across alien life, ...
Not even just the matrix these days. Have you noticed every year there are more and more movies/documentaries regarding this topic. It’s like the majority of us innately wants answers, or at least a more advanced way to come to terms with it all. . It almost rings true that the universe is using “us” as a tool to figure itself out. If we went up a ladder of intelligence (or dimensions) , the top rung of the ladder would know everything, except how “it” exists to know everything. So it has to go back down through all the rungs infinitely to answer this one question about itself. Which it never will, causing a loop of attempts. We could be a product of that, or some deviation of that because who the fuck knows 🤷🏻♂️
I'll definitely will check the book out. Some of the open-ended questions about self, free will and consciousness brushed by in the conversation are very well answered by Daniel Dennett already.
@Vlasko60 I'll guess "behind" refers to "behind in public perception" in regards to fame and success. It doesn't devaluate the person in the "background" automatically. There is probably a critical angle on that quote, when you are focusing soely on status and power? In the case of Annaka, which i am reffering to, i fail to see her in any regards less important than her - more famous - husband. Just the opposite: Sam seems to be highly influenced by her and owes a good part of his success to her.
@Vlasko60 I am able to see your point, yet i can't overstate the power of words the way you do. I am more focused on the content and the intention behind a quote than it's wording. My quote is probably outdated but definitely not mean spirited or degrading in any way. If you want to read it like an insult to someone i am not even adressing, than it is your interpretation.
Why do I sense a similarity in her and her husband's speech pattern? Like the slow pause she makes before elaborating further on a point. Sam does that all the time...
Hey Curious Wolf, not to me, she seems to be quite spontaneous, when comparing with her better half, without belittling either of their knowledge base.
well they're definitely around each other enough to have influenced each other's speech and conversational rhythms, cadences and tempos. It also seems to me they're also relaxed because of all the meditation etc. They're also incredible intelligent and its important to them (and they're able to do this because of all of the meditation practice) to step back and think about what they're going to say and then be able to say near-perfect sentences and paragraph answers without all of the lingual, stuttering patterns that pockmark so many discussions of the (woefully-) average person.
If we understood the full reality of consciousness as well as the reality of Reality, we would see what makes this phenomena of resonance so. If we love something, we wish to know it completely and even 'be it' also. Just for fun and exploration can we let our imagination 'run free' for a while: What if 'Reality' groaned before awareness of 'words or thoughts' (before any differentiation of knowing) and ask of Itself, 'What am I or what can i unfold from my potential?' And to answer this It begins to sense in its groaning that it needs a way of knowing that can unfold from 'the knowing by way of groaning' to something that grows out of this 'groaning' that crosses the border between the yet to be unfolded (implicate order) and its unfolding as the explicate order. Such as this would suggest a Totality that includes both implicate and explicate order. Or we might say it includes a kind of awareness that wishes to also 'reflect" on itself as a further way of knowing itself and thereby beginning to allow a ever unfolding knowing of its own unbounded hidden potential. Out of such 'knowing' a kind of 'stage' such as 'time and space' gets 'projected' and a kind of play can take place on such of a projected stage that is all in some way an aspect of the hidden potential of the unfathomable Totality making itself known to Itself.
Thank you Rich for his wonderful interview again I love her work!And yes you totally should but maybe you have done it by now interview Donald Hoffman …. please go on with all the marvelous work you’ve done and you do , lots of love from the Netherlands!!!
When they were talking about not having a head it made me realize why we see consciousness as being housed in the head. I used to think it was because the brain is there. Now I think it's because most of our sensory inputs are received there....motion, hearing, taste, sight, smell...and of course it's the main center of communication input and output. It's an interesting exercise! And I think the only definition of consciousness that really means anything in a binary sense is the ability to feel pleasure vs pain (mental and/or physical)
Your unconscious has been processing for 3 weeks since your comment and your attention has been drawn back to the topic by this comment. Do you now automatically agree that it makes as much sense to imagine a location for consciousness as to imagine a location for language, mathematics, relationship, pattern, process or time? We see nothing but abstractions in the list. Are we happy now to think of consciousness as an abstraction? Seems to me the English language is still somewhat clumsy when trying to get a grip on the concept of existence. We use the same word when referring to concrete objects as when referring to abstract ones. We say the chair exists and we say the idea exists but these are radically different kinds of existences. Seems to me it would be a clarifying move if somebody invented a new word for referring to abstractions and we all adopted it and we all agree to let "existence" refer only to the concrete, to chairs, houses, planets, stars, galaxies, etc. We might even go further and invent another existential word for the odd stuff of physics, the kind of stuff most of us can't even begin to debate as to its concrete or abstract nature. On a related topic, it seems to me the words "energy" and "force" could use a bit of clarifying attention. Cheers!
When I first started recovery from addiction it was through 12 step. I truly loved it in the beginning. The journey of self discovery, growing wisdom and spiritual growth. What was interesting and unfortunate was the more I learned about non religious spirituality and meditation the more I realized that much of what 12 step teaches is the antithesis of real spiritual growth. The continually focusing on the past, the "addict" identity.... it all just seemed very much ego centered and past centered. I know it helps some people but for my own growth I needed to leave it behind. Constantly seeing myself as broken or this "us and them" dichotomy (normie vs "addict") was not beneficial to me. (In some cases harmful) Addict is an action word. It requires a behavior. It's NOT an identity.
Consciousness is 'universal conscious', experiencing 'experience' through lives in every being in the universe. Hence one is in everything and everything is in one.
@Thymoteo Eevi Great to know your 'opinionated hippy crap' too & I agree to disagree. It’s a shame especially when you do not even know how to quote my original comment, forget comprehension. Different people see different things and not sitting here to educate a troll & a keyboard warrior. Come back when you have 'experienced' some manners & learnt to read what is actually written. Forget existential debates for the moment. All the best.
The discussion of plant consciousness reminds me of a couple of sci if novellas I much enjoyed as a youth, “Vaster than Empires and More Slow”, and “The Word for World is Forest”, by Ursula K. Le Guin. Both of these posit a symbiotic relationship between a ‘living planet’ and its inhabitants. Sci FI is often ahead of it’s time, a harbinger of new discoveries, and I’m heartened to learn that scientists have begun to question their assumptions about the nature of consciousness.
Aargh! Right off the bat I put up a mental block, when they try to define consciousness, she says when using the word in its most basic sense, the closest word she uses to describe it is “experience”. But experience really assumes an object of awareness, in other words, being conscious of...something. That something could be a physical object, or even just an idea. My point is that experience is therefore a function of consciousness, not necessarily consciousness itself. Anyone who has studied ancient Eastern philosophy is familiar with the concept of pure consciousness, where there is no object of awareness. But I will try to put that aside and listen to the rest of the podcast. 🙂
Brother, all I can say is from personally scheduled, proper dosed psilocybin mushroom trips, I literally can feel and "see" that EVERYTHING is all in waves of different frequencies and ALL is part of this, NO EXCEPTIONS! And ALL is affected by your intentions!! I have cured my lifelong depression and anxiety once I understood that all this trying to explain or describe things is a waste of time and that you need to just surrender to life itself in order to be BORN AGAIN! God bless you on your journey's my friend!
You are dead right. That is exactly what eastern philosophy teaches. I think we have to be clear that the reason why Sam and his wife reject that is because they have equated the no-self idea with the body-am-I idea which in fact is exactly the mistake the Buddha was pointing to and which according to Buddhist belief is the root cause of suffering.
You are dead right. That is exactly what eastern philosophy teaches. Is it not possible that Sam and his wife reject that because they have equated the no-self idea with the body-am-I idea which in fact is exactly the mistake the Buddha was pointing to.?
Annaka speaks of "intuitions", when she actually seems to mean prejudice - things that we have been trained to accept as truth. Intuition can be something different - useful insights that come from outside our conditioned mind
I would love to have a one on one with her. As other commenters I've said she is lovely light in as a positive way of presenting her thoughts. I'll start with reading her book. I wonder if "awareness" the same as "experience"?
Thought experiment ; close your eyes for a minute and imagine that our US Congress and House was composed of similar people and her in the Oval office ......what would that be like ..
So why do we let old, white mens club run the show, not just in USA but all around the world? What is a politician qualified to do but to get re-elected? They decide budgets on education and health with no qualifications, except money owned as favors for campaign support. In USA especially there is no leash on the corporations and the two party democracy is a joke, two sides keeping each other in power not fighting over it as the circus might confuse you to think. Why aren't actually brilliant people leading? Likely they have more important stuff than waste their time in a broken system as a gear that can't really change anything.. But a beautiful idea, shame the madness of the mobs.
When she focuses again and again on “intuitions,” she seems to really be speaking about “preconceived notions,” or even societal assumptions. Those are really different concepts that she seems to confuse.
i have been conscious while out my body, it has happened a few times but as soon as i realize i am OBE i shoot back in my body, also i suffer from Sleep Paralysis and sometimes get attacks from shadow people,, i am 46 but this has been happening since i was 6/7 years old and i always panic when i slip into paralysis and i have tried to go with the paralysis as one person suggested and i ended up in the longest state of paralysis and it causes me trauma as last night i only slept for 2/3 hours then had an attack,, i have been watching consciousness video's, meditated for 20 years daily and i can sometimes quiet my mind and slip into a state of being where i am totally awake yet unconscious ,, it took over 15 years to master this and been told i have a strong gift but what use is that when i can't use it and feel cursed!, i have real premonitions and the gift of Insight, Foresight, yet the one thing i want to master is OBE but with sleep paralysis it is hard to achieve although i have had and seen video's of people claiming this can be used to OBE,, well it is not working for me,, can anyone relate? or am i just plain strange! any answers would be great as i am alone and trying to find my way,,,
I would first do a cleansing of the house . Having shadow people around is not a very good thing and probably they are other entities around too . They are probably getting in your way .
This debate is fascinating and probably the most important debate there is. I believe consciousness is actually no more and no less than observation. In the sequence of events that lead to awareness, it comes after sensing, and after the brain has prossessed and organised the sensory data, but before what we call experience, assessment and/or judgement. Looking at it this way it's easy to explain how a person can do something without their consciousness, which does ocassionally happen. During this time they are like a zombie-a physical body, no consciousness-able to perform functions, nonetheless. Consciousness as observation explains a number of other things as well.
Physicist Thomas Campbell has been saying that consciousness is fundamental and everything stems from that long before Donald Hoffman. In fact, his whole theoretical premise revolves around that. But it seems no one gives him credit for his ideas. Not really sure why.
I wouldn't get too hung up on that. People have been thinking consciousness is fundamental for a long long time. Personally I would just keep doing what is most important, always available to you, and in your power - to explore your own consciousness! Then if you find something new to contribute you can add to all of us just in the way Thomas has. But if you point is to refer people to Thomas Campbell I fully agree because I think he goes deeper than Hoffman.
Your point is well-taken David. Yes, i believe it would benefit people to read Campbell’s work. He puts forth some foundational principles from which one can grow. It’s just like all the sensation around Jordon Peterson...he makes many valid points; but everything he talks about was all laid out brilliantly in Benjamin Stewart’s film Kymatica back in 2010. I think people like to choose their own messengers when they are ready. But, really, no one needs a messenger; all the tools are within. Thanks.
You are the constant illumination that lights up both the experiences and the void. R.M. Her mind is fixed in an outward bent of understanding. This is a costly postponement for the very truth she seeks for she Is. The mind can serve you only so far before it too must be surrendered. And one cant surrender until it is seen through
@@jhunt5578 I think this would be a phenomenal conversation! Sam has stated that he has trouble defending eating meat and I bet if pressed, he would admit he was a hypocritical. And Rich is such a non-confrontational sweetheart that I bet it would be a very light conversation while pressing Sam on some of his shakier beliefs
@@jhunt5578 Veganism is great but you can't force it on people, it does more harm than good because it puts peoples backs up.....the shift will happen eventually and more and more people will become vegans.
Any forms of energies are the Existence interfering simultaneously on themselves transforming into new forms, managing old forms and manifesting changes of emotions, that is conciseness.
So here is what consciousness is.......awareness which can expand. We are part of a collective experiencing everything there is to experience. Tentacles of the creator.
"What is like to be a bat?" was first used to discuss consciousness by Douglas Hofstader in Goedel, Escher, Bach (I don't know if that other author you mentioned gives him credit). I don't think that much about consciousness can be said beyond what was said in this book from decades ago. What is it like to be a computer that passes the Turing test?
@therainman777 No, it was however a bit too constant for me (the giggling) and took away from the seriousness of the discussion I was enjoying (half the time I didn't even catch what they were giggling about "That's a bummer......" ha,ha,ha,ha??????????) Just a bit annoying - are they above criticism??? I hardly think so.
Possibly theres one big question that if we could find the answer,would render all of our present big questions about conciousness, just gaps and dots to connect and fill. The actual origins of conciousness possibly? It sounds like an impossibility but who knows what's possible? If enough people were to unify their focus,the possibilities are infinite.
Hermes worked out the riddle thousands of years ago it is simply the 1st hermetic principle all is mind mind is all we live in a conscious mind so everything is conscious including matter
Consciousness, the way Annaka uses it (and I agree) is not reliant on self awareness. Consciousness can be extremely basic. Any experiences or feelings that an entity has. No self awareness needed.
To me, consciousness is a mental process that repeats over and over again. It attempts to answer 2 questions 1) What is going on? 2) What should I do? I'm fairly sure consciousness exists in all living creatures.
Rich, it does not "beg the question" (13:46). It raises a question. Begging the question is assuming a version of your conclusion as a premise. It's not synonymous with bringing up a follow-on point or sparking another question.
Phillip Rosol wrote : "Aargh! Right off the bat I put up a mental block, when they try to define consciousness, she says when using the word in its most basic sense, the closest word she uses to describe it is “experience”. But experience really assumes an object of awareness, in other words, being conscious of...something. That something could be a physical object, or even just an idea. My point is that experience is therefore a function of consciousness, not necessarily consciousness itself. Anyone who has studied ancient Eastern philosophy is familiar with the concept of pure consciousness, where there is no object of awareness. But I will try to put that aside and listen to the rest of the podcast. 🙂" My reply:- You are dead right. That is exactly what eastern philosophy teaches. Is it not possible that the reason why Sam and his wife reject that is because they have equated the no-self idea with the body-am-I idea which in fact is exactly the mistake the Buddha was pointing to.
I am not familiar with Buddha thought so please bayer with... I've noticed that when the last something, as in "being conscious of...something", is no longer "there", then neither is consciousness. Parallel, is the observation that when a process runs out of feedstock then processing ceases. The wheels might still be going round but processing is not happening. I can see in the immaterial aspect of process something like the beginnings of an explanation for the immaterial nature of consciousness. Or, more directly, consciousness is the immaterial process of the brain. Adjusting the feedstock (say, hate to love) changes the process just as adjusting the processor does (via, say, beer or LSD). The notion of "pure consciousness" seems to me meaningless or at best some nebulous kind of reference to the potential for consciousness by virtue of the existence and nature of a processor and feedstock. Yes, no, maybe?
The brain apart from having other functions, is just a "Program Filter", decided by your Genome, operating in an Encoded Format, and an Avatar, along with an Environmental Program Book, both of which are Components of a 'Holographic Simulation', Displayed in a Display Register of "The Processing System of LIFE".
This lady is far too easy to fall in love with! I never heard of her before, but this podcast has given me the appetite to know more about what she does. She's so engaging, you can't help but want to listen to her and learn more.
She must be vulnerable enough to be willing to discover herself despite what her peers and communities may say or think. The journey to Truth is a Solo one.
Also at 33:07 - one angle of looking at consciousness is adopted by European sciento-mystics , however deals only with the conscious within mathematical realm, and it is called "Function of the conscious iteration" , with the randomizing machine at it's heart. The cruel problem with this theory to be rejected is that all numbers actually do match. Which , if you extend it into a philosophical aspect that Annika is dealing with in her book, points that consciousness is not just everything we can experience, but also endless in nature and self driven by the sheer self actualization in term of existence.
Really great podcast! Another question, where is consciousness in the internet and all the digital devices? So my guess is that it is not tied to matter.
Sam (Annaka's hubby) has talked about how you ask yourself (often out loud) where have I put my phone? He poses the question - who are we asking? Could it be to do with the two hemispheres? Is one hemisphere literally asking the other if it can recall where the phone actually is? If I happen to put the phone down with my left hand (although I'm right handed) is it likely that my right hemisphere could recall this but my left, somewhat noisy, vocal hemisphere hasn't got a clue?
Each individual is "" looking from" individual consciousness. "We" however, can only conceive of group consciosness, which relies on comparisons, and pset experiences (by definition , from past group perceptions). Her point regarding " career ending statements from existing scientists" says it all. This actually also answers the questions emerging regarding gravity, where (incorporating parallel realities) such reactions can be seen as escaping the gravity field of the froup consciousness. This explains the behaviour of the human race throughout history. Woe betide anyone who professes to know more that the status quo at the time. Career endingbtoday, but life anding in some arenas past and present.
Her comments about experience are close. I think Rupert Spira's definition is more expansive/inclusive: Consciousness is that IN which all experience appears, WITH which all experience is known, OUT of which all experience is made.
I can't see why the 'why' question of human consciousness is considered to be the 'hard problem'. I think it simply relates to complex decision making. If you were escaping from a fierce animal and were faced with a choice between jumping across a ravine or fighting the animal you would need to evaluate the options and assess the risk vs reward of each. You couldn't do that without reference points based on experience. If you fell and broke your leg, how would you know not to walk on it and damage it further without sensory information? Consciousness is relative to fitness (fitness in an evolutionary sense). For example we're not conscious of UV light because it serves no purpose to us, whereas to birds of prey it helps them to see urine trails of small animals.
You're missing the point. Your brain is like a meat computer which functions well on it's own, controlling your body and receiving inputs. The conscious experience is like the monitor being on, but nobody is watching (the "self" is what most people purport is watching). The hard problem is this: why is the screen on? Why isn't it just a computer doing all its functions perfectly well, why is it 'like something' to be you, rather than just an empty computational process?
@@leavethebasket7435 No, I think you're missing the point. Computers can't do contextual complexity that might require things like empathy, regret or cunning. Consciousness emerges where the screen needs to be watched. If it wasn't necessary it wouldn't exist as it would otherwise be a waste of energy.
@@milesfurnell that last point demonstates your misunderstanding of the logic of trait evolution. Some traits do in fact exist even though they currently waste energy/ resources, because they evolved in a context in which it was useful, that useful attribube ceased, yet the worthless traits continued. There are countless examples of this in just humans, for instance goosebumps, a tailbone with no function, tiny muscles that can move the ears, etc. Either way, the hard problem of consciousness isn't trying to explain its evolutionary origin. The hard problem is 'WHY is there any experience being had whatsoever?' How does the arrangement of atoms and their electrons into a system called a human create a "first person experience" of what it is like to be those atoms?
@@leavethebasket7435 If you'd like to understand more about consciousness and how it relates to evolution you can read the paper I wrote on it, entitled 'Frame dynamics - A theory of general evolution' which was published in the Springer journal Foundations of Science earlier this year. The question of why the arrangement of atoms and their electrons into a system called a human might give rise to a first person experience is rather reductive, in that it is misses out billions of layers of complexity and overlooks the metaphysical aspects of systemic interaction. Just as the conceptual aspects of the brand Apple could not be reduced to a set of physical components, consciousness cannot be reduced to a collection of neurons, let alone atoms. Leading figures in the field of consciousness studies, such as Tononi, Graziano, Seth and others have moved on from discussions about the hard problem given the naivety of the p-zombie conceivability argument and the fact that Information Integration Theory and Attention Schema theory both adequately describe why conscious experience arises.
The only person who actually wakes up with Sam Harris everyday
this comment is soooooooo underrrated
Boom!
You can only wake up once
@@hermansohier7643 are you sure about that
Sam Harris believes the Self is an illusion, so, if he's right, there is no Sam Harris to wake up with.
What an incredibly articulate and intelligent person she is. Its a pleasure to hear her speak because she does so with unparalleled clarity. Fascinating and informative.
She has a lovely, light, positive way of presenting her thoughts. Very intriguing dialogue with the host as well. Long form discussions like these make my commute go from too long to too short. Sitting in my parking space listening to another 10 minutes before I go inside.
Ditto feeling here, I can carry on with the most monotonous home chores endlessly without any trouble and wish the discussion never ends
A true modern philosopher. Excellent, rich, deep content. Thank you so much for this.
She is amazing and I'm even more amazed to learn that she and Sam Harris share their lives together...She's just so warm😊
I love Sam Harris, too...Sure would love to be a fly on the wall when they're having kitchen table discussions!!! Both incredible people!
@Vlasko60 the link is not accessible
Some *wild* intellectual intercourse going on in that relationship.
Truth be told - they probably swear like truck drivers, and she suffers the same maladies that her kind suffer every month. So what else is new. Meditation can't cure everything.
True. Do you think they fight about kids, the AC or relatives?
@@unclefester9113 believing it's about curing everything misses the point I think
As if my life wasn't already confusing enough, now I'm in love with Sam Harris's wife. Thanks a lot, Rich.
Agreed. I won't give thumbs up for a pretty face, as that's an accident of birth. But her brilliant intellect is hers, and it's a beautiful thing in a woman.
@@nervinokaras Respectfully, I don't agree. Barring birth defects, I believe that everyone is born with great, unlimited potential. and that it's development depends on parenting, home environment, education and other societal influences. As well, I'm with Rupert Sheldrake and other cutting-edge researchers - the brain, as an organ, does not generate consciousness, but is the recipient of consciousness. Some people have learned how to connect with that "out there" better than others, but we can all connect.
I can see where it's not just shared interest, they actually make a cute couple in the sense that they're both share the same sort of koala-ish Mediterranean features..
@@markj7612 She would probably say her intellect was an accident of birth and circumstance. Since she doesn't believe in free will, ultimately everything that happens is a combination of determinism and randomness - you don't choose your parents, your upbringing, or time and place of your existence. But, I agree she is a brilliant person!
@@markj7612 I agree.
A very important subject that does not require understanding of why, but rather how to stay in attention and awareness to experience life fully. Knowing how to meditate and doing so seems to be the stepping stone to prepare for this state of sustained consciousness, rather than occasional consciousness that is recognized and identified.
She is a beautiful human being.
A bigoted Jew like her Jew husband.
@@jessetoler8171 could you explain what you mean
Yes so beautiful.
She's captivating. Often, you'll watch her so much that you'll forget what she's saying. Now, I know why the skeptical Sam was able to give in. Home Sam, you get this one right man.
Everything said here is in Ashtavakra Gita, written thousands of years ago. Absolutely fascinating.
Excellent, non-dogmatic discussion, thanks. According to Vedanta and Buddhism, consciousness is independent of the body, and is the single awareness in which every experience occurs. Our local consciousness is “a reflection “ of this one consciousness in some way I frankly don’t grasp. The key is not the smell of coffee but the AWARENESS of the smell of coffee or not.
Lol, ever heard of the egg theory? This one consciousness live all lives that have been and will be, so its really just one of us here... and it exist outside space-time, so it can live all lives.
⁰gdhirë w
Cognitive scientist Donald D. Hoffmans theory that space time is doomed and consciousness is fundamental: creating it all, preceding the big bang has my attention.
It should. Its roots also date back thousands of years.
Brett Hayvice - Yes, it a is very intriguing concept that I am starting to research also. However, I’m concerned this idea might be placing humans back up on a pedestal - the one we just got them down from - after thousands of years of religious dogma saying we are all the sons of a particular, imaginary ‘god.’ We’re told that women are here only to serve men and bear their children, and man has dominion over all (other) animals. The harm that has resulted from these iron-age ideas still continue to destroy untold countless lives. Many scientists are not anxious to go back to another ego-stroking idea that is unfounded on anything other than the timeless desire to feel special, gain power, and manipulate others.
Me too. Do you know about Thomas Campbell and My Big Toe theory?
I wish D Hoffman and Campbell would talk.
It's a very interesting theory, I hope he succeeds in his efforts at making it mathematically rigorous.
Naked Singularity Asking whether or not consciousness is fundamental has nothing whatsoever to do with the primitive musings of the Bronze Age man. This is a category error.
Annaka is gorgeous without makeup. She is what every guy needs, beautiful inside and out.
What beautiful smiles, both of you! I love this conversation, and I wish I could have one like this with my wife. I love conversations like this...why does it chalk up to a fantasy at this point? How long does a moment last? In infinity, wouldn't there be just one, eternal moment? Damn, her laugh is like a a cluster of flowers, dancing among the grasses on a gentle slope of a great mountain in a sweet summer breeze, clouds drift happily above, occasionally giving shade to the stoic rocks, nestled amongst the trees....a deer, a bird too far in the distance to identify gliding freely, the trees whispering secrets yet to deep for the fragile human mind to grasp, but giving rise to joy beyond the mundane...
Thanks Annaka, and Rich, much love to both of you ❤
Love her energy ♡ brilliant lady.
Great book (highly recommend the audio book ) - great writer (and speaker) - great conversation - thanks!
Maybe you can help me out here...I might be missing something, but I'm getting the impression that her position is grounded in an assumption of consciousness somehow arising from matter? that the universe/big bang, all this happened and this is an exploration into theories of the nature of consciousness based on an assumption that matter precedes consciousness...?
@@esr71 She does come from a strictly Western rationality framework so yes, she would assume matter is all there is. However she does maintain an ipen mind by saying consciousness is still a mysterie and not proven to be linked to our neurology. In more recent discussion with Donald Hoffman she seems very receptive to his notion that what we perceive as reality is not reality at all. But as it stands I think she is still looking at it from a dualistic point of view. Just my interpretation from listening to a lot of discussions she had over the years, which I recently listened to.
Consciousness is the observer of thought, our brain is an antenna 📡
Sure. Well put.
But is it Observer Or Observation Or Both ?
There are no thoughts. So that is bs
Such an insightful and thought provoking episode!
I appreciate this conversation and I have great respect and admiration for RR and the podcast. I am just getting to know Annaka - in her own right. She is pleasant, patient, well-spoken and obviously passionate about her subject of study. I am only 27 minutes in... but I have to say, I didn't love the comment 'your husband has written many books about this so its not that new to anyone coming to you via him.' This came across a little bit like an invalidation of what she said and her work/book. Maybe I am being too sensitive on her behalf...
Amazing! Really enjoyed listening to you both dancing and exploring for over an hour. Time passed quickly. Thank you so much. As a meditator for over 20 years and interested in exploring beyond the mind via Enneagram, etc, I was hoping Annaka would throw some light on what is beyond the egoistic mind...perhaps a different kind of consciousness which in my view gives us a compass to live our life which does not harm other people, animals and the environment...and seek truth. Perhaps this is an inquiry through another book.
It's nice to see intelligent people being polite instead of arrogant. A lovely woman.
so the voice inside my head is real im so happy
great conversation love her and her husbands work, awesome that u had her on
Absolutely enjoyed the other hemisphere of Harris. 👍👊
absolutely love this topic! only 2minutes into this podcast, and she asks the question about whether you were interested in the topic before reading the book etc and almost immediately i could feel this influx of consciousness pouring into my thoughts... I got the sense that "this" was an extremely vital and important experience allowing me to see parts of the story in a little more clarity and was able to connect important links that are in alignment to my exploration of what consciousness is... such an amazing experience to connect with and a great thing to able to hear another talking about these incredibly complex things that are interconnected with the knowledge, wisdom and teachings of my ancestors and the culture i grew up in. I am still very much a learner but a fixated, willing pupil to learn more about our states of consciousness and how it could be expressed through artworks (it helps me to unravel these mysteries that are super hard to explain in words.lol) I am a contemporary Maori artist living in New Zealand, my bloodline connects me to both Ireland and our Maori culture, however i affiliate more with the indigenous people of the land. Most of my art work is a reflection of things my Maori ancestors passed on to future descendants and i find myself delving deeper into the mystery of "consciousness" in both physical and spiritual forms....each page shedding new light of innerstanding and making more and more sense as we progress. Thank you Rich for creating and sharing this Podcast. Thank you Annaka for your openism.... I am now officially your number one fan :D
adding to the experience of this connection and insights currently being received, we have a belief system and understanding that we have two rivers of energy that exists within each and everyone of us, we call it Wairua, literally translates to as the two rivers...in this case, whilst listening to this podcast, I can now confidently say with absolute conviction, the maori term Wairua, (the two rivers) is a poetical expression that literally describes the physical stream of consciousness and the spiritual stream of consciousness that interconnect and overlap within each other and.... towards other consciousness that are open and receptive to it....ohhh we are just warming up! :D lol
I would almost accept the idea that intuition is a manifestation of the universal consciousness in us, for us.
From the outside in my case, I was seven years old and I made a conscious resolution of Intent that I couldn’t change the outcome and outside can circumstances that impacted us but I could save my family by my actions and what I did to imply that no one else in my family would ever have to suffer again after that in future so that is why I do what I do.
I have always been attracted to the mystery of experience because it is a well known fact that you can create feeling states in many ways - dancing, running, different ways of focussing, and many other ways. We are cocreators of both our own but also of the experiences of other living beings. - and consciousness is definitely more than the brain 🙃🎶💜🎵🦄
Annaka and this interview are both pure gold. I've never heard of her before, but she speaks the language of my heart so well. Wait, she's married to Sam Harris?! That man has great taste! ... On a more serious note: One way to externally check for the presence of consciousness in a species: Do members of that species toil away for years, scratching their heads, wondering what can cause them to not only behave, but to experience. That's not going to help us with cats and dogs, unfortunately, but if we ever come across alien life, ...
Consciousness is a manifestation determined by your own reality.
Not even just the matrix these days. Have you noticed every year there are more and more movies/documentaries regarding this topic. It’s like the majority of us innately wants answers, or at least a more advanced way to come to terms with it all. . It almost rings true that the universe is using “us” as a tool to figure itself out.
If we went up a ladder of intelligence (or dimensions) , the top rung of the ladder would know everything, except how “it” exists to know everything. So it has to go back down through all the rungs infinitely to answer this one question about itself. Which it never will, causing a loop of attempts. We could be a product of that, or some deviation of that because who the fuck knows 🤷🏻♂️
This conversation soothes my soul!
This is my fav subject! 🧠🧘🏻♂️🙏🏼🌌
Look up universo consciente usa.com
Me too! Go read Henri Bergson - Matter and Memory if you have not done so.
danzigvssartre ill def check it out! Thanks
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. My perception is telling me an underlying knowledge is being hidden within discussions like this. 🧐😞
I'll definitely will check the book out. Some of the open-ended questions about self, free will and consciousness brushed by in the conversation are very well answered by Daniel Dennett already.
Perfect example for "'Behind every great man there's a great woman"
@Vlasko60 Why? Because a woman can get the best out of a man? And vica versa?
@Vlasko60 I'll guess "behind" refers to "behind in public perception" in regards to fame and success. It doesn't devaluate the person in the "background" automatically. There is probably a critical angle on that quote, when you are focusing soely on status and power? In the case of Annaka, which i am reffering to, i fail to see her in any regards less important than her - more famous - husband. Just the opposite: Sam seems to be highly influenced by her and owes a good part of his success to her.
@Vlasko60 I am able to see your point, yet i can't overstate the power of words the way you do. I am more focused on the content and the intention behind a quote than it's wording. My quote is probably outdated but definitely not mean spirited or degrading in any way. If you want to read it like an insult to someone i am not even adressing, than it is your interpretation.
Why do I sense a similarity in her and her husband's speech pattern? Like the slow pause she makes before elaborating further on a point. Sam does that all the time...
I guess when you live with someone for that long you start to mimic some of the things your partner does
Hey Curious Wolf, not to me, she seems to be quite spontaneous, when comparing with her better half, without belittling either of their knowledge base.
you get that from meditation
well they're definitely around each other enough to have influenced each other's speech and conversational rhythms, cadences and tempos. It also seems to me they're also relaxed because of all the meditation etc. They're also incredible intelligent and its important to them (and they're able to do this because of all of the meditation practice) to step back and think about what they're going to say and then be able to say near-perfect sentences and paragraph answers without all of the lingual, stuttering patterns that pockmark so many discussions of the (woefully-) average person.
If we understood the full reality of consciousness as well as the reality of Reality, we would see what makes this phenomena of resonance so. If we love something, we wish to know it completely and even 'be it' also. Just for fun and exploration can we let our imagination 'run free' for a while: What if 'Reality' groaned before awareness of 'words or thoughts' (before any differentiation of knowing) and ask of Itself, 'What am I or what can i unfold from my potential?' And to answer this It begins to sense in its groaning that it needs a way of knowing that can unfold from 'the knowing by way of groaning' to something that grows out of this 'groaning' that crosses the border between the yet to be unfolded (implicate order) and its unfolding as the explicate order. Such as this would suggest a Totality that includes both implicate and explicate order. Or we might say it includes a kind of awareness that wishes to also 'reflect" on itself as a further way of knowing itself and thereby beginning to allow a ever unfolding knowing of its own unbounded hidden potential. Out of such 'knowing' a kind of 'stage' such as 'time and space' gets 'projected' and a kind of play can take place on such of a projected stage that is all in some way an aspect of the hidden potential of the unfathomable Totality making itself known to Itself.
Thank you Rich for his wonderful interview again I love her work!And yes you totally should but maybe you have done it by now interview Donald Hoffman
…. please go on with all the marvelous work you’ve done and you do , lots of love from the Netherlands!!!
Love philosophical discussions 💗
When they were talking about not having a head it made me realize why we see consciousness as being housed in the head. I used to think it was because the brain is there. Now I think it's because most of our sensory inputs are received there....motion, hearing, taste, sight, smell...and of course it's the main center of communication input and output. It's an interesting exercise!
And I think the only definition of consciousness that really means anything in a binary sense is the ability to feel pleasure vs pain (mental and/or physical)
🙏🙏🙏
Your unconscious has been processing for 3 weeks since your comment and your attention has been drawn back to the topic by this comment. Do you now automatically agree that it makes as much sense to imagine a location for consciousness as to imagine a location for language, mathematics, relationship, pattern, process or time? We see nothing but abstractions in the list. Are we happy now to think of consciousness as an abstraction?
Seems to me the English language is still somewhat clumsy when trying to get a grip on the concept of existence. We use the same word when referring to concrete objects as when referring to abstract ones. We say the chair exists and we say the idea exists but these are radically different kinds of existences. Seems to me it would be a clarifying move if somebody invented a new word for referring to abstractions and we all adopted it and we all agree to let "existence" refer only to the concrete, to chairs, houses, planets, stars, galaxies, etc.
We might even go further and invent another existential word for the odd stuff of physics, the kind of stuff most of us can't even begin to debate as to its concrete or abstract nature.
On a related topic, it seems to me the words "energy" and "force" could use a bit of clarifying attention.
Cheers!
Qualia is much, much more than just pain and pleasure.
Thank you for this wonderful discussion!
Go Annika! You and hubby are a perfect team.
I have seen her now in 3 podcasts and this girl makes these guys all gigity and it makes me laugh
Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental.
- Erwin Schrodinger
we'll see about that
When I first started recovery from addiction it was through 12 step. I truly loved it in the beginning. The journey of self discovery, growing wisdom and spiritual growth. What was interesting and unfortunate was the more I learned about non religious spirituality and meditation the more I realized that much of what 12 step teaches is the antithesis of real spiritual growth. The continually focusing on the past, the "addict" identity.... it all just seemed very much ego centered and past centered. I know it helps some people but for my own growth I needed to leave it behind. Constantly seeing myself as broken or this "us and them" dichotomy (normie vs "addict") was not beneficial to me. (In some cases harmful) Addict is an action word. It requires a behavior. It's NOT an identity.
Yeah bro it sounds like programming.
Thank you, Annaka!!
Consciousness is 'universal conscious', experiencing 'experience' through lives in every being in the universe. Hence one is in everything and everything is in one.
yes
yup.
@Thymoteo Eevi Great to know your 'opinionated hippy crap' too & I agree to disagree. It’s a shame especially when you do not even know how to quote my original comment, forget comprehension. Different people see different things and not sitting here to educate a troll & a keyboard warrior. Come back when you have 'experienced' some manners & learnt to read what is actually written. Forget existential debates for the moment. All the best.
Experience is reality .
The discussion of plant consciousness reminds me of a couple of sci if novellas I much enjoyed as a youth, “Vaster than Empires and More Slow”, and “The Word for World is Forest”, by Ursula K. Le Guin. Both of these posit a symbiotic relationship between a ‘living planet’ and its inhabitants. Sci FI is often ahead of it’s time, a harbinger of new discoveries, and I’m heartened to learn that scientists have begun to question their assumptions about the nature of consciousness.
Aargh! Right off the bat I put up a mental block, when they try to define consciousness, she says when using the word in its most basic sense, the closest word she uses to describe it is “experience”. But experience really assumes an object of awareness, in other words, being conscious of...something. That something could be a physical object, or even just an idea. My point is that experience is therefore a function of consciousness, not necessarily consciousness itself. Anyone who has studied ancient Eastern philosophy is familiar with the concept of pure consciousness, where there is no object of awareness.
But I will try to put that aside and listen to the rest of the podcast. 🙂
Brother, all I can say is from personally scheduled, proper dosed psilocybin mushroom trips, I literally can feel and "see" that EVERYTHING is all in waves of different frequencies and ALL is part of this, NO EXCEPTIONS! And ALL is affected by your intentions!! I have cured my lifelong depression and anxiety once I understood that all this trying to explain or describe things is a waste of time and that you need to just surrender to life itself in order to be BORN AGAIN! God bless you on your journey's my friend!
You are dead right. That is exactly what eastern philosophy teaches. I think we have to be clear that the reason why Sam and his wife reject that is because they have equated the no-self idea with the body-am-I idea which in fact is exactly the mistake the Buddha was pointing to and which according to Buddhist belief is the root cause of suffering.
You are dead right. That is exactly what eastern philosophy teaches. Is it not possible that Sam and his wife reject that because they have equated the no-self idea with the body-am-I idea which in fact is exactly the mistake the Buddha was pointing to.?
Gosh, I just love her!
Very positive. Changed my life by tripping and meditation. I see life in all eyes I look into.
What about these iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis?
38:00 I´d say that "awareness" is a more pure word than "experience", when talking about consciousness....
Can you define the difference?
She uses the word experience for people that are only starting out trying to comprehend
@ There is all the while awareness of coming and going experiences.
Annaka speaks of "intuitions", when she actually seems to mean prejudice - things that we have been trained to accept as truth. Intuition can be something different - useful insights that come from outside our conditioned mind
Rich has the best laugh!
Great guest.
Thank you for sharing another wonderful podcast. The question that comes to me is the case of Alzheimer’s in regards to being conscience. ❤️🇨🇦
I would love to have a one on one with her. As other commenters I've said she is lovely light in as a positive way of presenting her thoughts. I'll start with reading her book. I wonder if "awareness" the same as "experience"?
What a powerful letter from Amy! Thank you for sharing this!
Sorry my podcast jumped to a previous show. Disregard this 😉
A great book! Should be called the “good book!”
Very good
Thought experiment ; close your eyes for a minute and imagine that our US Congress and House was composed of similar people and her in the Oval office ......what would that be like ..
Gigi ... here's your answer ... "AWESOME!!!" "😀"
THEIR CORPORATE CHARTER EMPLOYEES!! AND YOUR NOT THATS WHY THEY DONT LISTEN !!😈😠😡😎👮💂👺👹👽💀🙊🙉🙈💩
Much better, but any sentient human would be better than the orange buffoon.
Gigi Fiorelli Remember that those who choose to go into this corrupt political situation should in many ways be immediately barred
So why do we let old, white mens club run the show, not just in USA but all around the world? What is a politician qualified to do but to get re-elected? They decide budgets on education and health with no qualifications, except money owned as favors for campaign support. In USA especially there is no leash on the corporations and the two party democracy is a joke, two sides keeping each other in power not fighting over it as the circus might confuse you to think. Why aren't actually brilliant people leading? Likely they have more important stuff than waste their time in a broken system as a gear that can't really change anything.. But a beautiful idea, shame the madness of the mobs.
When she focuses again and again on “intuitions,” she seems to really be speaking about “preconceived notions,” or even societal assumptions. Those are really different concepts that she seems to confuse.
i have been conscious while out my body, it has happened a few times but as soon as i realize i am OBE i shoot back in my body, also i suffer from Sleep Paralysis and sometimes get attacks from shadow people,, i am 46 but this has been happening since i was 6/7 years old and i always panic when i slip into paralysis and i have tried to go with the paralysis as one person suggested and i ended up in the longest state of paralysis and it causes me trauma as last night i only slept for 2/3 hours then had an attack,, i have been watching consciousness video's, meditated for 20 years daily and i can sometimes quiet my mind and slip into a state of being where i am totally awake yet unconscious ,, it took over 15 years to master this and been told i have a strong gift but what use is that when i can't use it and feel cursed!, i have real premonitions and the gift of Insight, Foresight, yet the one thing i want to master is OBE but with sleep paralysis it is hard to achieve although i have had and seen video's of people claiming this can be used to OBE,, well it is not working for me,, can anyone relate? or am i just plain strange! any answers would be great as i am alone and trying to find my way,,,
I would first do a cleansing of the house . Having shadow people around is not a very good thing and probably they are other entities around too . They are probably getting in your way .
This debate is fascinating and probably the most important debate there is. I believe consciousness is actually no more and no less than observation. In the sequence of events that lead to awareness, it comes after sensing, and after the brain has prossessed and organised the sensory data, but before what we call experience, assessment and/or judgement. Looking at it this way it's easy to explain how a person can do something without their consciousness, which does ocassionally happen. During this time they are like a zombie-a physical body, no consciousness-able to perform functions, nonetheless. Consciousness as observation explains a number of other things as well.
Physicist Thomas Campbell has been saying that consciousness is fundamental and everything stems from that long before Donald Hoffman. In fact, his whole theoretical premise revolves around that. But it seems no one gives him credit for his ideas. Not really sure why.
I wouldn't get too hung up on that. People have been thinking consciousness is fundamental for a long long time. Personally I would just keep doing what is most important, always available to you, and in your power - to explore your own consciousness! Then if you find something new to contribute you can add to all of us just in the way Thomas has.
But if you point is to refer people to Thomas Campbell I fully agree because I think he goes deeper than Hoffman.
Your point is well-taken David. Yes, i believe it would benefit people to read Campbell’s work. He puts forth some foundational principles from which one can grow. It’s just like all the sensation around Jordon Peterson...he makes many valid points; but everything he talks about was all laid out brilliantly in Benjamin Stewart’s film Kymatica back in 2010. I think people like to choose their own messengers when they are ready. But, really, no one needs a messenger; all the tools are within. Thanks.
I love the way you guys converse about this subject. I feel like science and spirituality should not be mutually exclusive.
You are the constant illumination that lights up both the experiences and the void. R.M. Her mind is fixed in an outward bent of understanding. This is a costly postponement for the very truth she seeks for she Is. The mind can serve you only so far before it too must be surrendered. And one cant surrender until it is seen through
That intro song is way to loud compared to the talking volume. Its like when commercials on tv are a little bit louder.
Welcome to TH-cam
Rich you could speak to Dr Ian Mcgilchrist-you are such an amazing interviewer-he speaks about the laterality of the right and left hemispheres
OK SAM! ...I am envious. :)
Next guest, Sam Harris 😀
Get Sam to stop being a hypocrite claiming akrasia, lab meat and net positive wellbeing when it comes to Veganism.
@@jhunt5578 I think this would be a phenomenal conversation! Sam has stated that he has trouble defending eating meat and I bet if pressed, he would admit he was a hypocritical. And Rich is such a non-confrontational sweetheart that I bet it would be a very light conversation while pressing Sam on some of his shakier beliefs
@@jhunt5578 Veganism is great but you can't force it on people, it does more harm than good because it puts peoples backs up.....the shift will happen eventually and more and more people will become vegans.
Great podcast!
Any forms of energies are the Existence interfering simultaneously on themselves transforming into new forms, managing old forms and manifesting changes of emotions, that is conciseness.
So here is what consciousness is.......awareness which can expand. We are part of a collective experiencing everything there is to experience. Tentacles of the creator.
"What is like to be a bat?" was first used to discuss consciousness by Douglas Hofstader in Goedel, Escher, Bach (I don't know if that other author you mentioned gives him credit). I don't think that much about consciousness can be said beyond what was said in this book from decades ago. What is it like to be a computer that passes the Turing test?
thanks Rich !!
Definitely ALL OF REALITY is conscious. I don't care for the giggling, but a good talk about fascinating ideas.
@therainman777 No, it was however a bit too constant for me (the giggling) and took away from the seriousness of the discussion I was enjoying (half the time I didn't even catch what they were giggling about "That's a bummer......" ha,ha,ha,ha??????????) Just a bit annoying - are they above criticism??? I hardly think so.
Love it! Thank you :)
🙏🙏🙏Buddha taught this 2500 years ago 🙏🙏🙏namo Shakyamuni🙏🙏🙏 a hand full of leaves vs a Forrest 🙏🙏there are 4 groups of Sentient ☸️☸️☸️
yep. these techie types are so far behind. ngl, its embarrassing really.
Possibly theres one big question that if we could find the answer,would render all of our present big questions about conciousness,
just gaps and dots to connect and fill.
The actual origins of conciousness possibly? It sounds like an impossibility but who knows what's possible?
If enough people were to unify their focus,the possibilities are infinite.
Hermes worked out the riddle thousands of years ago it is simply the 1st hermetic principle all is mind mind is all we live in a conscious mind so everything is conscious including matter
Well stop the presses! We immediately need to let everyone know.
Imagine your comment and Dr. Cox: th-cam.com/video/DufvM4FceHk/w-d-xo.html
Consciousness and self awareness are not the same. Consciousness is experiencing itself through our self awareness.
Consciousness, the way Annaka uses it (and I agree) is not reliant on self awareness. Consciousness can be extremely basic. Any experiences or feelings that an entity has. No self awareness needed.
Good show.
To me, consciousness is a mental process that repeats over and over again. It attempts to answer 2 questions 1) What is going on? 2) What should I do? I'm fairly sure consciousness exists in all living creatures.
Plants are living creatures. So are the simplest of animals. Amoebas. Sponges. Bacteria. Viruses. Are they all conscious
@@mareezy I would say yes as long as they effectively answer these two questions.
Can u give a list of all the books mentioned? Thanks
Rich, it does not "beg the question" (13:46). It raises a question. Begging the question is assuming a version of your conclusion as a premise. It's not synonymous with bringing up a follow-on point or sparking another question.
Phillip Rosol wrote :
"Aargh! Right off the bat I put up a mental block, when they try to define consciousness, she says when using the word in its most basic sense, the closest word she uses to describe it is “experience”. But experience really assumes an object of awareness, in other words, being conscious of...something. That something could be a physical object, or even just an idea. My point is that experience is therefore a function of consciousness, not necessarily consciousness itself. Anyone who has studied ancient Eastern philosophy is familiar with the concept of pure consciousness, where there is no object of awareness.
But I will try to put that aside and listen to the rest of the podcast. 🙂"
My reply:-
You are dead right. That is exactly what eastern philosophy teaches. Is it not possible that the reason why Sam and his wife reject that is because they have equated the no-self idea with the body-am-I idea which in fact is exactly the mistake the Buddha was pointing to.
I am not familiar with Buddha thought so please bayer with...
I've noticed that when the last something, as in "being conscious of...something", is no longer "there", then neither is consciousness. Parallel, is the observation that when a process runs out of feedstock then processing ceases. The wheels might still be going round but processing is not happening.
I can see in the immaterial aspect of process something like the beginnings of an explanation for the immaterial nature of consciousness. Or, more directly, consciousness is the immaterial process of the brain. Adjusting the feedstock (say, hate to love) changes the process just as adjusting the processor does (via, say, beer or LSD).
The notion of "pure consciousness" seems to me meaningless or at best some nebulous kind of reference to the potential for consciousness by virtue of the existence and nature of a processor and feedstock.
Yes, no, maybe?
The brain apart from having other functions, is just a "Program Filter", decided by your Genome, operating in an Encoded Format, and an Avatar, along with an Environmental Program Book, both of which are Components of a 'Holographic Simulation', Displayed in a Display Register of "The Processing System of LIFE".
This lady is far too easy to fall in love with! I never heard of her before, but this podcast has given me the appetite to know more about what she does. She's so engaging, you can't help but want to listen to her and learn more.
She must be vulnerable enough to be willing to discover herself despite what her peers and communities may say or think. The journey to Truth is a Solo one.
Also at 33:07 - one angle of looking at consciousness is adopted by European sciento-mystics , however deals only with the conscious within mathematical realm, and it is called "Function of the conscious iteration" , with the randomizing machine at it's heart. The cruel problem with this theory to be rejected is that all numbers actually do match. Which , if you extend it into a philosophical aspect that Annika is dealing with in her book, points that consciousness is not just everything we can experience, but also endless in nature and self driven by the sheer self actualization in term of existence.
32o , excellent explanation of why she started writing...why didn't i look at writing that way
Really great podcast!
Another question, where is consciousness in the internet and all the digital devices?
So my guess is that it is not tied to matter.
Janis
Could it not be?
My brain is scrambled really interesting though
Sam (Annaka's hubby) has talked about how you ask yourself (often out loud) where have I put my phone?
He poses the question - who are we asking? Could it be to do with the two hemispheres? Is one hemisphere literally asking the other if it can recall where the phone actually is? If I happen to put the phone down with my left hand (although I'm right handed) is it likely that my right hemisphere could recall this but my left, somewhat noisy, vocal hemisphere hasn't got a clue?
Each individual is "" looking from" individual consciousness. "We" however, can only conceive of group consciosness, which relies on comparisons, and pset experiences (by definition , from past group perceptions). Her point regarding " career ending statements from existing scientists" says it all.
This actually also answers the questions emerging regarding gravity, where (incorporating parallel realities) such reactions can be seen as escaping the gravity field of the froup consciousness. This explains the behaviour of the human race throughout history. Woe betide anyone who professes to know more that the status quo at the time. Career endingbtoday, but life anding in some arenas past and present.
Her comments about experience are close. I think Rupert Spira's definition is more expansive/inclusive: Consciousness is that IN which all experience appears, WITH which all experience is known, OUT of which all experience is made.
I can't see why the 'why' question of human consciousness is considered to be the 'hard problem'. I think it simply relates to complex decision making. If you were escaping from a fierce animal and were faced with a choice between jumping across a ravine or fighting the animal you would need to evaluate the options and assess the risk vs reward of each. You couldn't do that without reference points based on experience. If you fell and broke your leg, how would you know not to walk on it and damage it further without sensory information? Consciousness is relative to fitness (fitness in an evolutionary sense). For example we're not conscious of UV light because it serves no purpose to us, whereas to birds of prey it helps them to see urine trails of small animals.
You're missing the point. Your brain is like a meat computer which functions well on it's own, controlling your body and receiving inputs. The conscious experience is like the monitor being on, but nobody is watching (the "self" is what most people purport is watching). The hard problem is this: why is the screen on? Why isn't it just a computer doing all its functions perfectly well, why is it 'like something' to be you, rather than just an empty computational process?
@@leavethebasket7435 No, I think you're missing the point. Computers can't do contextual complexity that might require things like empathy, regret or cunning. Consciousness emerges where the screen needs to be watched. If it wasn't necessary it wouldn't exist as it would otherwise be a waste of energy.
@@milesfurnell that last point demonstates your misunderstanding of the logic of trait evolution. Some traits do in fact exist even though they currently waste energy/ resources, because they evolved in a context in which it was useful, that useful attribube ceased, yet the worthless traits continued. There are countless examples of this in just humans, for instance goosebumps, a tailbone with no function, tiny muscles that can move the ears, etc.
Either way, the hard problem of consciousness isn't trying to explain its evolutionary origin. The hard problem is 'WHY is there any experience being had whatsoever?' How does the arrangement of atoms and their electrons into a system called a human create a "first person experience" of what it is like to be those atoms?
@@leavethebasket7435 If you'd like to understand more about consciousness and how it relates to evolution you can read the paper I wrote on it, entitled 'Frame dynamics - A theory of general evolution' which was published in the Springer journal Foundations of Science earlier this year.
The question of why the arrangement of atoms and their electrons into a system called a human might give rise to a first person experience is rather reductive, in that it is misses out billions of layers of complexity and overlooks the metaphysical aspects of systemic interaction. Just as the conceptual aspects of the brand Apple could not be reduced to a set of physical components, consciousness cannot be reduced to a collection of neurons, let alone atoms.
Leading figures in the field of consciousness studies, such as Tononi, Graziano, Seth and others have moved on from discussions about the hard problem given the naivety of the p-zombie conceivability argument and the fact that Information Integration Theory and Attention Schema theory both adequately describe why conscious experience arises.
best high.