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Nice video, love this movie. Question, why was Trump pictured right after Stalin and Hitler? Are you saying he falls in the same category? If you believe that, I need to know because I don't support fascist/socialist/communist ideals. Trump can be crude, rude, wrong, and many other things, but implying Trump is in the same boat as those two is anti-american and incorrect. In my opinion, it's close to treason. You can believe whatever you want, but I do not support communists, especially comrades Biden/Harris. I'm not trying to start a war here, just trying to get your position clarified, I think mine is clear.
Service guarantees citizenship, not military service guarantees citizenship... SMH, why did you even pretend you read the book? Most of the citizens aren't in the military they served through other means. If you don't have a stake in something you tend to make poor choices, which is something you seem like you would know a lot about.
The reason Rico was whipped was because in the books, the armor was bulletproof power armor. It’s like master chief removing his helmet in the middle of a fire fight
@@flexprime2010 The only reason why its like that on the table top is to be able to tell what the model is at a glance and to be able to pick out where it is.
@William Casey - Kind of... but if one looks a bit, they will discover that said nations usually have vastly reduced budgets and the defence sector is but an afterthought in their society. Netherland, modern Germany and their ilk may have military branches that do not waste energies in infighting, but also have no money to spend and the military career is seen mostly as a dead end for nincompoops in their society. It's hard to keep a rivalry up when everybody is depressed and worried.
The Japanese thought that too and it crippled their war effort in WW2. Nope, you should not treat any part of your fellow soldiers as enemies. Nothing good comes from it.
@@shiroamakusa8075 I think the rivalry is more of a "He has better privileges! " and "I am more cooler!" than actually actively deny intels among each other.
Rico getting whipped for letting a man be killed in a live-fire drill actually makes some sense in that screwy world: Rico and others were stopping to talk to each other as live ammunition is whizzing around them when they had to stay mobile at all costs. That was beyond stupid for Rico to permit it and no wonder one of them was killed. It was actually relatively lenient under the circumstances.
That live fire drill was literally designed to kill people tho.. in that scene you can see the course is just casually built around the rest of the training ground where other recruits are jogging and doing other things. The emphasis was put on who wants to be the squad leader over working as an effective fireteam as well, for all their worship of the military its pretty clear that this society probably long ago forgot about how to actually fight and train for wars properly.
Corporal punishment virtually never works to achieve the desired ends. Oh, it might temporarily discourage SOME behavior...maybe, but the discouragement only works IF the punishment is comparable in severity to the crime and ONLY for so long as the authority doling out the punishment is watching. As another commenter noted, the exercise was designed to kill people. What do you think happens when you run a strong electrical charge through the body of someone who has their finger on the trigger of a gun? The same thing that happens every single other time you run a current through muscle tissue, it uncontrollably expands and contracts. The exercise was so dumb and sadistic that even a high school PE teacher couldn't come up with it.
@@ryanstewart5727 The idea is to discourage the other soldiers, not Rico himself, Furthermore he was punished for having a person under his command be put in more danger than was necessary, punishing small mistakes like this happens alot in medicine if the patient dies, even if the direct cause was out of anyones control. Not only that but someone died, the 2 people who were punished for the death was, The person responsible for the shooting(just cause the electricity made them fire isnt an excuse, thats poor trigger discipline along with carelessly aiming the gun back down range cause of the shock), and the commanding officer who was responsible for his team. And finally this is a Facist Military run Government designed to emulate Nazi Germany and alot of the elements present in 1984. What else do you expect
@@Lordgrayson I would expect a society advanced enough to make the very laws of physics their bitch to not be stupid enough to think that corporal punishment actually works to produce long term change. It's something they would absolutely be aware of too because WE learned it before the alternate history diverged. I get that the writers were going for a "this society is bad" vibe, but you can do that without having them be terminally stupid.
Half these complaints are real things in militaries. Training officers often ARE responsible for any screw ups by those they train. Questioning a superior can and is treated as insubordination. Inter-service rivalries are common.
Interservice rivalries are not common. Look it's pretty simply one force wins the wars. The Airforce. The army fucks around trying to figure out how to read. The navy is too busy 'testin out, them cheeks'. The Marines are at fashion week trying out new uniforms, and the coast guard.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA But in seriousness Star Ship Troopers is actually very much like the modern military. If your trainee fucks up you will be held responsible, If you tell someone to remove a helmet when they shouldn't and they get fucked up, you will feel the wrath, you can ignore 'unlawful' orders but you had better make DAMN sure you are right. Punishments are very much doladed out based on how much the CO likes you (unless its a DUI then you fucked no matter what)
15:00 "Or you could just run off to war completely unprepared for the battle you're about to be engaged in." I really wish this happened only in fiction. Hell, for every complaint in this video, you could find a real-life comparison.
CT68 the best real comparison for that comment is the battle for Guadalcanal in ww2 the marines had ww1 equipment and it was a massive cluster fuck and was almost a defeat.
Well, that is the point of satire. Verhoeven was born in Amsterdam in 1938, and made a movie emphasizing the parallels he saw between the book, Nazi Germany, and the US.
I like that in the books when you sign up for the Military, they give you 24 hours to reconsider and think about it. If you come back great, if you don’t it’s fine and you aren’t reprimanded.
It's literally the same shit irl except you get way more than just 24 hours by the time all the paperwork is done and you stepped in that plane it can take months and you can decide to stop at any point in time.
@@NautilusSSN571 yes but the book you didn't even need to tell them you quite you just don't show. Also any point during your service you can quite in the boon which is kinda interesting.
The idea of having a efficient form of warfare that minimises human casualties is based on the idea of human life having value. Once you abandon that idea all that stuff about inefficient leadrrship, organisation, tactics and equipment become secondary concerns. At that point it's about feeding enough meat into the grinder so the meat never realizes it's got value. And if you have enough humans reproduce you can just keep turning the handle. It's never about winning. It's about going on indefinitely.
Or, ya know, the efficient form uses things that make humans obsolete, like what’s better? A weak squeamish flesh bag that needs armor, food, sleep, time to poop etc, and might deny orders because “it is just plain wasteful”?Or robots that can kill anything they see 24/7, can self repair and won’t have any chance of going rogue.
@@Awesomotron2k But it takes 9 months to pop a baby out and if you are smart about things, 18 years worth of training at least, with all the supplies and shit to give to a solder to have them do their job, a robot in a decent factory can be pumped out in maybe a few minutes in a scifi world (I don't know the way robots are handled in this universe) also no time needed to pay teachers to teach they can just copy and paste some code, no money wasted on regular amounts of food cuz there robots, and the federation has access to multiple planets worth of shit, resources are most likely not a problem.
@@kaiserhundkek2531 robots can’t be trusted we will require humans but not in numbers I have a theory about training the soldiers to prime and not militarise everyone like have an army which is small but can hit hard and are not cannon fodder like give each solider a sort of exo suit and instead of 5 years of training with the majority being bookcamp urge that up to 15 years of training with the weapons and to get commanding officers who actually care about thier soldiers and those who know when to retreat especially when your army is small but can hit hard.
The way how the Soviets loved to fight - waves of meat sent out into the mincer. A lot of the people who were told to charge were the people they "conscripted" from lands they took over, not to say that a Russian's life wasn't "light" for their govt to throw away as well. but a lot of the people on the frontlines weren't Russians, and had snipers aiming at their backs, if they thought about running away. Germany started thinking about optimizing its force later, when able-bodied and military trained men started "running out" (dying).
@@TargunYssboern A point but the 2 can be interchangeable when lives are on the line. Now Lt Peacock irrc was ok as a soldier...but was something of an idiot as an officer particularly when it came to map reading.
I will say, that the majority of brand new LT'S in the army are a bunch of bumbling idiots, at least at first, they are taught to be *leaders* taught that their orders will be followed simply because they are given, and that's not entirely true, like anything it takes time to develop the skills and understanding that it takes to be a leader. Understanding that you dont know everything, and that utilizing the experience of those who are under you to the fullest. Is the right way to go about it. Also be very aware that there is no such thing as an LT who has common sense. That is most certainly a learned skill.
Doogie Himmler...that killed me! Also, your take on how the Mobile Infantry lines up against the bugs on Klendathu is spot on. An 18th century regiment of American Revolution era Patriots with muskets would be more effective than these saps.
Except this is a criticism which applies to the Verhoeven-shredded narrative of the movie, and not the book which was the source. Verhoeven hatred the book, refused to read it, and wanted, from the beginning, to make a sci-fi movie about the Nazis that shaped his young life as they walked over his home country in WW2.
@@MonkeyJedi99 yeah cus the video is about the movies. In the book the MI were in power armor with jump jets and tactical nukes and things like "firing lines" don't even apply. Because of course the authoritarian warmongers of the book were also totally smart and are going to win! Props to Veerhoven for shredding that narrative.
@@ntfoperative9432well The patriots are more likely to be militia and thus undisciplined and untrained compared to a standing army They might work for ambushes and such but ain’t no way you are going to beat one of the most powerful armies in the world by shooting them once in a while
The book was quite a bit different. Troops had jump suits in the book. I've seen clips where the producer said the move wouldn't be worth watching if all the troops had to do is fly around in suits and shoot down at the bug's. The Doogie Himler gag was LoL.
@@Prich319 The Arachnids in the book aren't stupid; they just cannot comprehend the value of unitary human life or any reason why they'd want to negotiate humanity because theirs is a hive intelligence whose closest human equivalent is mental communism that actually works. Not only are they capable of building underground cities with technology, they have space ships and even a means of communicating with and allying themselves alongside other intelligent species, like the "skinnies".
@@stevenschnepp576 The plot was at first only inspired by the book, and meant to be a comedy/satire. Later it was adapted to be a film adaptation of the book. Oh, and of course, that would both be a lot more expensive to produce, but also created a more boring movie that absolutely wouldn't be as memorable as it is today. It would be more realistic and follow the book more closely, yes, but the movie isn't trying to do either.
I believe it was Ellen Ripley, wise warrior/sage, in the movie Aliens that offered up one of the greatest strategies committed to celluloid, when she offered up this GENIUS absolute GEM when dealing with an alien species such as this: "NUKE 'EM FROM ORBIT"!!!!
You should look at the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k. I bet you’ll have fun with that. EDIT: I didn’t imagine a joke of a comment would be taken seriously. I mean yeah it would be fun to see it but I originally thought his channel would mostly focus on movies. (Until he pointed out he would focus on other mediums and genres.) but still I am glad people really wanted to see that video.
The thing is about the IOM is that there is a reason for their society. chaos corrupts all and its hard to move things forward while there is an evil space hell force that will corrupt everything you do.
So how does that keep them from developing A.I s. I'll cut them some slack they do have the whole age of iron , and they sorta did chug the god emporer of man kool aid a long time ago.
@@mrmaxwell346 They did develope A.I. - it's just usually either done where bunch of zelouts hunt them down, or said A.I. kill everyone off (Men of Iron - basically super powered robot revolt). And chaos does mess with A.I.s and you don't want your city sized mech turning on you now do you?
@@jerminnigor4095 Yeah, but there is a LOT of dumb independent of that. Part of their Imperium had a war against another part over heresy (because EVERYTHING is heresy) What was this heresy? They were confused about what calendar to use. They regularly lose entire star systems...not losing them to enemies, but they just forget they have them for decades at a time. etc etc etc
@Aspiring Marauder IS DAT SUM ANGRY MARINES REFERENCE? FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUCK YOU!
@Aspiring Marauder there is no way a space marine is using 10 inch thick armor, get yourself a ruler and see just how much 10 inches is. Space marine armor is more like 10 mm thick.
@@Sargonarhes I am sure it is thicker than that, in the novel they use mechanized exoskeletons, think fallout 4 power armor but with mininuke launcher, gatlin laser, jetpack etc, they at least have a couple inches of plating but 10 inches is way to much.
That women at the desk in a white suit? At 20:44? I think her initial was E not A unfortunately. That would of been funny tho for sure. Unless it's another scene?
Simply swapping the underslung shotgun for a grenade launcher would probably be enough for the infantry to dominate most bug engagements, as long as they have enough ammo anyhow
Scientology: The Spirits Within. Those two were good movies. I somehow lost *both* of them somewhere. I'm usually very good about only losing things in my own house to turn up later, not into some black hole void forever, which seems to be the case all these years later since I still can't find them.
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure you meant to say 'especially with Rico looking like Big Boss from Metal Gear'. These are not 'good movies' but they are fun.
You forgot to mention that rico's the one that told the guy to take off the helmet. Also a point is that this military needs an enemy to function. And it could be that they see the bugs as the last resort enemy, so it could be that they wont develop actually battlefield defying equipment so they can preserve this threat as a threat.
@Julian Dacosta I am familiar with all of them; I am also acquainted with human nature, which evolved tribally not unlike our simian ancestors. War is inevitable and as such, armed groups develop with every human group that has an interest in competition and survival against other groups. Imperialism, fascism, and the military industrial complex are all infinitesimally young next to man's history and inherent need for combat.
5 bucks says the us air force could wipe out united citizen federations attempt to invade with ease just by using missiles on their troops muhahahahaha hell even the us abandoned the hummer for better armored vehicles to protect their troops in combat
The thing is, The Federation has all the aesthetics of fascism (the appearance of it), but none of the practicality of it. The citizens have some additional rights, but it's less segregation and more minor nepotism, which also really doesn't affect the lives of ordinary people. This is to the point where civilians actively mock people who take on Federal service, and in some quarters it's even seen wasting your life (in the book Johnny's dad goes on a big tirade against it). Also, far from being manipulated into military service, people are actively discouraged from joining. At every turn of the application process individuals are told that it will be incredibly hard, that they'll probably get hurt or killed and that their lives will be better in the civilian world. While I personally don't agree with corporal punishment, the book at least makes the argument that it's generally preferable to prison (when it's done it's done, there is no stigma, it's a short sharp shock that doesn't just make people into more hardened criminals). The book also emphasises personal freedom as a key value in their society, not exactly a fascistic concept. I ultimately don't agree with Heinlen's analysis, but his concepts are a lot more nuanced than the simplistic label of 'muh fascism' would imply. Even if you don't agree with him the book is certainly a stimulating read, well worth it.
I feel that it is a very misunderstood book it's not fascism, it's representative democracy but the act of gaining suffrage is federal service. A service that the state is required to offer you if you require it, and it has to be something you can do. If you're a pacifist, they can't send you to the military...
The fact is that even if the boom states one thing, it doesn't mean it works. Marx wrote extensively about Communism so it means it works because it's wrotings say so? It doesn't take much for a Starship Troopers govt to go full fascist since it's already set to be extremely militaristic and tyrannical.
@@phantomsoldier497 The notions that 'freedom isn't free' and that 'rights come with responsibility' are core to the very idea of democratic liberalism - a system and philosophy that fascism and communism challenged directly in the 20th century. Heinlein was writing in the aftermath of WWII and reflecting on how frail freedom truly is - the bugs represent a direct threat that can't be reasoned or compromised with, the antithesis to the individuality and self-autonomy that we strive toward. Neither the book or film are 'hur dur, fascism go brrr', and they don't really totally agree or disagree - but it's more like a conversation between intelligent and insightful creative visionaries. Heinlein might be saying you have to earn and maintain freedom even if reluctantly, Verhoeven might be warning against taking it too far lest you lose what it is you valued so much. They're both valid and thought-provoking POVs which provide lucid and unsubtle social critiques in their own cultural contexts.
That still doesn't justify how garbage their military is. Frankly, I side with the bugs. They didn't start the war. The federation did in order to send people to their deaths as a culling mechanism. A true perversion of war. It's unsurprising though. This Federation was founded by valance horny ex-military humans addicted to battle.
remember the book, where the armor has been done correctly? the anime version ones... where Rico got whipped not for tampering with a helmet but for shooting a nuke too close to his own men?
@@allamericanslacker2378 Still it was one of many examples that book Federation actually do cares for it's men and woman. I remember the scene with the disabled recruiter, who walks around with two very real looking and feeling arms and legs after closing times.
The original movie only uses a couple flavors from the book itself. The main reason being budget for the movie, the book itself covers Mech suit base weaponry, and most of the games in the series get much closer to cannon than the movie did.
Right,. What the fuck is he talking about? banter and rivalry is one thing, and fighting a war is another. He acts like they would be fighting each other in war.
Oh? so I guess the "real" military is perfect. Well pack it up boys! No need to solve any problem in the (US) military cos it's so perfect (despite not really winning a war in over ~60 years)
@@mikejohnstonbob935 I also sometimes have the desire to project my idiotic, uninformed and generic thoughts onto what people say, even when what they say has barely anything to do with what I'm thinking. the difference between you and I is that I often think before I project, and maybe even re-read the comment I'm about to project onto. try it sometime - you may even find you'll sound less like an idiot.
Lieutenant isn't a rank you're promoted into, it's the opening rank when you come out of the Academy, it's generally good for them to listen to their veteran sergeants to help make the best decision Though, since the UCF doesn't split enlisted and officer ranks, it's probably possible that most lieutenants did come from the enlisted path
All officers started as enlisted in the book. Pretty sure they had to also do at least one combat drop too. But the book also had orbital insertion and powered armor, so there are a few differences between book and movie
@@codyabbott1863You couldn’t hit NCO without a combat drop and you couldn’t commission until you were already an NCO. (It’s been years since I last read the book so take this with a grain of salt)
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess this guy hasn't had the displeasure of dealing with any real world militaries. Either as a soldier or as a civilian. In real life, the following are accepted as being normal: - Rivalries between branches. - Poor Intel often leading to failure. - Conflicting advice from Drill SGTs - General cock-ups. - Poor resource deployment. - Infantry being morons. - Training that is outdated. - Weapons that are outdated. - Doctrine that is outdated. - Not enough training. - Higher ups covering their asses. - Everyone covering their asses. - Morons being promoted. - Frequent incompetent officers. I could go on but half of his criticisms, while maybe valid, are very much based in what actually occurs in military service. ST just displays all of that with a very pessimistic and cynical slant, so elements are exaggerated.
Nice imput man. I also think that all the power games between different parts of the goverment or allied goverments also plays a role in the cluster which is war.
Historically violence has been the deciding factor of conflict. A government without the ability to defend itself, and acquire resources wont last long. Creating competitive rivalries between branches, and creating a sense of pride and elitism also seems to be a normal thing for military and paramilitaries throughout history.
Well. I quess is okay as long as the soldier who are supossed to work togheter start fighting eachother or trying to get all glory for themselves. Everybody should try to do better no matter what.
@@user-nu8in3ey8c From my limited service, rivalries between the Army and USMC, or the Navy, or the Air Force, are very common. I've only ever done one NATO deployment but, surprise, there was quite a bit of competition between us and the Brits. It's usually in good fun but some idiots don't quite get that and will sometimes start shit or throw a punch. I don't think it's manufactured, it's more like buyer's remorse but with a faction rather than a game console or car.
Apparently it's different depends on what military you serve and what types of government you have. British military used to allow you to buy into the commission instead of earning it, but hey, they still conquered half of the world.
Starship Troopers has this huge pro-military slant because the writer for the book Robert Heinlein was extremely pro-military, which is kind of funny since one of the next books he penned was "Stranger in a Strange Land" was extremely popular with hippies... He was an odd dude.
Yes, because you cannot have a liberal democracy without people willing to defend it from others who'd seek to impose their ideologies and/or faith upon you and your fellows and you cannot have a sustainable democracy unless those ruling it have demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice everything, including their own lives and freedom (temporarily), for the good of their fellow citizens. A Heinleinian democracy is the only sane iteration of democracy, without which nations decay.
@@3dcomrade No, but those who freed them from imperialists _WERE_ willing to sacrifice everything, including their own lives, to achieve victory. The Tet Offensive alone is a grand example. Militarily? It failed and most of the attacking forces were slaughtered BUT...by systematically probing the South for weaknesses and showing their resolve to the American people, they won a psychological victory that broke the Americans' resolve to continue fighting. Every man who threw himself at South Vietnam's defense KNEW he'd probably die but, that it'd ultimately be worth it. My words stand.
@@Mr.Ambrose_Dyer_Armitage_Esq. the Tet Offensive did not destroy the capabilities of the North Vietnam Army. As they are still able to fill the gaps left by fallen Viet Congs in the South(to conserve the insurgrncy) and also keeping the regular Army intact to face a probable American attack to the North
"Sky Marshals only accountable to military veterans" Didn't Sky Marshall Deans resign after the absolute disaster that was Klendathu? Making military strategy accountable to military strategists seems like a good idea for saving lives and incentivising highly effective military tactics. There are a lot of problems with the movies, but this isn't one of them. Interestingly, in the book, the mobile infantry is far more technologically advanced elite troopers, to the point where one person can easily take out hundreds of bugs with little effort, with advanced jump jets and a lot of other really cool tech. However, the bugs can reproduce extremely fast and have a massive numbers advantage. The movie(s) sort of gloss over all this and make the mobile infantry regular army grunts like today that die by the hundreds. The second and third movies sort of give the MI the tech they had from the start.
@@pt8306 I think the reason why the mobile infantry (funny name given that all infantry is basically mobile) was so different in the movies was because they didn't know for sure they would get the rights to the books and had hence change costumes enough for plausible deniability.
@@Nonsense010688 They also didn't had a budget to make all of that "sweet sweet tech", at the time CGI was at it's begginings, there were tecnical limitations to what they could rapresent from the book
Service Guarantees Citizenship (on a side note, why'd you call the book authoritarian? People who've never read the book are the only ones who make that mistake in my experience)
A few military things: 12:45 : Interservice rivalry is definitely a thing across all military's ever. The US military during WW2 is a good example; Major military cities often had to deal with drunken street brawls between Sailors, Marines and Soldiers. However, when the time came to actually fight (almost) everyone was able to put it aside and work together. Of course it can be taken to far - The Imperial Japanese Army and Navy fought over literally every cent and piece of scrap metal, which when combined with the near non-existence of any kind of civilian government, spelled doom for any chance of effective cooperation. 14:38 : "Fighting the Last War Syndrome" is definitely a consistent issue whenever a country initially goes to war; see The Entire Western World during WWI; France and England during WWII; America during Vietnam; America during the War on Terror. What really matters is being able to quickly learn the lessons of the new war and apply them effectively. 21:28 : Eh, true to life at least. Even in the modern military we emphasize both speed and safety in accomplishing tasks, although which takes priority depends on the situation. 22:43 : The whole "junior officer is given command of a squad of veterans" is trope because it is extremely common across all militaries, of all time periods. Everyone in the modern military has at least one story of an incompetent Lieutenant or Ensign fresh from OCS, who doesn't know what they're doing and makes things harder for senior and junior enlisted alike. This is because Enlisted and Officer are two entirely different career paths; a lieutenant is a direct equivalent to a private, different only in what kind of training they've received. 25:18 : "Military Intelligence is a contradiction in terms" - Groucho Marx. Military Intelligence is weird. It is a key part in any military option, often a deciding factor, and yet it is very hard to get right. No matter how good you are, no matter how much information you've gathered, it often comes down to making an educated guess and hoping you're right. "High Confidence" = 75-99% sure.
Mentions inter service rivalry but does not mention Imperial Japan. The rivalry was so intense the Japanese army of the time had to build it's own fleet of aircraft carriers because the IJN could not be trusted to provide air support or even transport army aircraft so they could do it themselves.
The faults of the movie version of the UCF make sense when you realize that their entire society is based on little more than the ideal of collective sacrifice. It's a parody of Jiongoistic fascism, where the objective of war isn't the pragmatic achievement of victory but rather in the perpetual creation of a permanent class of hero-citizens whose only job is to further the cult of sacrifice (and therefore loyalty to the regime) to the next generation. If anything the stupidly high death counts are actually an essential ingredient to the whole system rather than a flaw, think Imperial Japan.
Or it could be just to pretend something's going on and have something the masses can be entertained/emotional with. Maybe they are completely beyond a necessary point of fighting and just needs control tools.
It seems like there's no real problems on earth. So they keep the war machine constantly grinding in order to control their population and keep the military in power. With a constant stream of new veterans that perpetuate those wars.
You're definitely right about the movie's. The book version was actually quite competent and surprisingly humanitarian. Particularly where the military was concerned.
Mhm. The series gets a bad rep for being 'fascist' when it's basically an idealistic liberal globalist society. To the point where the military doesn't conscript you, or try to convince you to join. They try to get you to QUIT. It's like the Federation in Star Trek if they still used money and weren't a galactic force but a budding extra-solar one. Except the first time they find aliens in Starship Troopers, the aliens don't offer them help. They try to murder everyone.
@@enderoctanus they dealwith the most glaring problem with democracy, people only in it for self gain are less able to sway people who have personally given blood for the society
@@irishcream9004 you mean like a 1-party system? If history has taught us anything, it's that anyone not given a voice in government will likely become a marginalized people and be oppressed. It works in the novel because it's a work of fiction.
Well the lazy half-wit who made the first movie didn't even bother fully ready the book, so the movie is an incredibly lazy straw man of the first few chapters of the book. I'd say the society in the book is actually fairly competent.
So tired of people claiming "this is what the book says" who clearly haven't read the actual book - y'all are passing around a "coles notes" version written by a libertarian who wants to pretend that Bob Heinlein was as stupid as Ayn Rand (and/or himself). The book is very, very clear that anyone who wants to become a citizen has the right to do so, even if they are so inept and incompetent that the state has to create a make-work position for them to do their "service", and that "service" includes the entire civil service down to the trash-pickers, NOT JUST THE MILITARY. And it's equally clear that our hero Johnny only wants to go into the military because he's got the hots for Carmen. (And, reading between the lines, that the author wants him to because he's got a story to tell, and it wouldn't be as interesting if Johnny was a trash picker.) The whole lengthy induction process is in order for the state to find out what position(s) the applicant would be most useful in, because they CANNOT be refused for any reason save outright criminal behavior. And, once the process is complete, the applicant is given a short list of options to choose from - and a "cooling off" period in which they can decide against taking any of the offered positions and return to their non-citizen life without any penalties whatsoever. IF they choose to proceed, they must complete their service or be discharged for cause: they aren't allowed to back out after they start, because that would be really, really, really, really expensive for the state if they are in a military branch, and a violation of principles of fair treatment if they aren't (why should non-military inductees be allowed to leave if military ones aren't?) because training is /enormously/ expensive - which the book proceeds to illustrate in detail. Heinlein was an elitist, not a libertarian, and his concept of "elite" was "intelligent, self-motivated, ambitious AND empathetic", and he couldn't have cared less about gender, race, religion, or even sexual orientation, because anyone of any label could turn out to be one of his elites. He thought the state was absolutely obligated to provide the most extensive education each person was able to complete, and a basic minimum standard of living that enabled their children to focus entirely on their education, regardless of whether the parents were competent to breathe. This book was one of several treatises on this elitism, with the specific focus that citizenship (defined as the right to engage in politics on any level, including the franchise) should be earned, not endowed, but /anyone/ had the right to earn it (and that non-citizens had the same rights as citizens, just not the privilege of governing). NOT a libertarian.
While I've been aware there was an original (expectedly) misrepresented source material, I've seen/heard nothing, up to now, that's peaked my interest in it, I thank you. Where would you suggest I start? 🤔 (assuming 'the start' but you never know 😂)
Well written, this novel is also on the reading list in the Marine Corps for its lessons in command and leadership. It is most certainly not some fascist hand guide to the future.
I wouldn't say he's definitely not a libertarian - definitely not anarcho-anything, I give you. But the fact is, the democracy in Starship Troopers (the book) is quite similar to the ideas of democracy of the old political-economical school from which modern libertarians derive, besides the one thing - universal franchise (which is only universal if you exclude everyone who doesn't get to vote, which is something around 20% of the population of a typical democracy today; much more than at the start of 20th century, but hardly universal). Look at what Heinlein's state does - it provides free education, it provides security (military and emergency services), and that's basically it. It doesn't stamp all over free enterprise. It doesn't try to destroy anything private. It's strong on personal responsibility, and abhors group responsibility in all forms. Johnny's father is a successful businessman without getting the franchise - the franchise is seen as another responsibility, *not* a privilege. The political power is very limited in practice (we don't know much about how limited it is de jure). Even at the height of the war with the bugs (and their allies), they don't stoop to conscription or nationalization. They still do their best to protect territories that aren't _quite_ theirs, but also aren't enemies. So, in no way fascist. Or nationalist. Or racist. Or white-supremacist. Or sexist. Definitely free market democracy in the old sense (i.e. "majority doesn't give you the right to dictate to others"). Not anarcho-liberal, but something that most libertarians I know would be quite happy with. Even if you might find some things objectionable (e.g. corporal punishment, especially with regards to kids), we're talking about a society that's closer to liberal (in the old sense) than anything we've had in the past thousand years. The film, on the other hand, had nothing to do with the book. The studio just acquired rights to filming the book, slapped the name on a film they already "had", renamed a few characters and just put it out there. So, for people claiming it's a smart satire of the book or Heinlein's ideas... nope. It's a satire of american jingoism, something that survives to this day, despite the advances in american girth :)
@@CrowColdblade The bugs as psionic to some extent. I.e. they can consume the minds of humans and communicate with each other telepathically. They also reproduce by shooting their spores at other planets in the first place. So bugs attacking Earth, rather than it being a false flag, is plausible. Although a fascist government staging a false flag attack to justify war would hardly be anything new...
Yeah Paul Verhoeven is a dumbass. He never even read the novel (refused to, actually) and just wanted the movie to be all about fascism and demanded bugs instead of the "actual" Arachnids so that Federal Fascism would be front and center instead of the actual complex story of two high tech space-faring races playing politics with one another. End result, hack writers had to find a way for literal bugs to destroy Buenos Aires (instead of the canon occurrence of an Arachnid Special Operations Team inserting through the defense grid to plant nukes in BA.)
Though it has the same name as Heinlein's classic novel, this movie has many shades of Joe Haldeman's classic, "The Forever War." Both novels were compared heavily against each other, though the authors had nothing but praise for each other. In Haldeman's work, Earth's government facilitates a war with an alien race on the flimsiest of pretexts and then keeps it going seemingly forever. There is no end in sight, just the next battle.
Heinlein's Terran Federation is not comparable. Because the only people allowed to serve are volunteer citizens, and because all citizens have an incentive to preserve the government they had to sacrifice to become a part of, war is inherently disadvantageous to wage. They can't conscript civilians (that'd dilute their offerings and empower weaklings contrary to Federal principle) so, it'd mean they just be expending their brothers and sisters in arms in a war of attrition with the hopes that the same people who spurned them as morons and meatheads would be willing to change their minds and likely die in combat for a system they bitch about constantly.
@@plankdorodo3122 clearly you don't know anyone who served. Otherwise, that military intelligence joke was invented by all-talk blowhard civvies who thought gender studies would make a great and useful degree.
@Your Neighbor Is A Bot it's the truth. Gotta wonder if you're American with that comment. If not, you don't have a leg to stand on, much less the authority to comment on the matter.
@@warfightersanonymous7760 this. Exactly this is a prime example for why everyone else (not us- Americans and even a good amount of us citizens ) are laughing at us-americans. The amount of arrogance and ignorance combined with stupidity is just loudicously ridiculous. "If you're not American you have no right to say anything about american whatsoever, as you are an inferior being". Funniest part about all this is that you are stupid or ignorant enough to not understand this. Go on and give the rest of the world more things to laugh about. It could be sad if you wouldn't be that proud, arrogant and ignorant,behaving like superior beings. How is the Corona virus pandemic without an public health care system and an idiotic child (at best) for president ? America first ! (place in the Corona ranking). Thanks for the laugh;)
When the first movie was released, I was serving in the Army. The part I simply could not wrap my mind around, was the HUNDREDS of rounds of ammunition that could fit in a standard 5.56 mm rifle magazine. They hold 30 rounds in real life........PERIOD. Look at the magazine that Rico tosses to Diz while saying, "Make 'em count". It's an M-16 or Morita mag with a plastic cover on it! LOL Even Rob Heinlein would have gone straight to cringe factor 10.....No wait 11 (it's one higher). Once again, Great Video. Thanks :D
There is a big disconnect between the book and the movies, the Director of the film never read the book. In the book the mobile infantry wore advanced armour, and trained in all environments with all types of weapons.
I’m pretty sure he did read it because he’s commented that he hated the message (mainly the military worship), which is why he made the movie lambast it.
The CGI looking movie is: "Starship Troopers: Traitor of Mars" if anyone was wondering. @Media Zealot Could you add that to your info part? Just in case anyone, like me, was wondering what it was. Thanks!
Paul Vahoeven wanted to show male frontal nudity as well, but couldn't in America. He could only get away with showing a penis in Hollow Man because it's seen through a thermal imaging camera.
It's the scriptwriting, just in its unpredictability. It's tough dealing with big content civs, so much information to deal with, so many inconsistencies, conflicting continuities, etc. I wrote the Dinohattan episode in one day, this one took me quite a bit longer. My Tuvok scene harvesting is more efficient than ever, I basically just have a text doc full of Tuvok quotes that I've copied and pasted from series transcripts. I also slowly watch Voyager during downtime, and take note of any interesting moments. It's just a matter of reading through the doc and slotting a few quotes into my script. Now that I'm using premiere pro, taking the actual scenes is a lot quicker. The cutaway scenes and little mashup sections add another day's work, but I feel like it's worth it. Thanks for recognising my struggles!
Unfortunately, history is full of regimes that share most of the Federation’s flaws and, at the very least, survived long enough to do an awful lot of damage.
Except the Nazis weren't the "bad guys". Their enemies were and they convinced you there is a pandemic and Iraq had WMDs and a whole host of other deceptions. Think about that
@@smallhatshatethetruth7933 People have to find out on their own the big lie. The big H is an article of faith in the West. And Marxism has replaced religion for many people.
@@hideousruin Been fired from a job, suspended by another, been reported to the police twice and been threatened with physical violence several times but I'm still not bothered by the risk
"None of these [Military] branches get along...' Meanwhile, in every real world Naval Academy: Singing: "We're not The Air Force, Lounging On the Golf Course"
@@levimalone4433 While I can understand why you would not be sure if it was supposed to be satirical, this is also the same channel, who when he "reviewed" or talked about the Kryptonians from Man of Steel, he made part of the video an impromptu dubstep/rave music video, using their Kryptonian terraforming machine thing as a part-of-a-city sized subwoofer. Media Zealot, or at least every one of his videos I have watched, is just having fun...being a sarcastic, satire loving, jerk. XD If you haven't watched that episode about the Kryptonians and you enjoyed this one in the least, you should do so, it was pretty good.
@midgetydeath so it ended up being a satire of fascism because the director was trying to do the opposite of what the book was doing, but ended up do what the book did.
Yeah and he is just pointing out the examples of how retarded their society is. It doesnt matter if it was made that way or not. Certainly the writers of the movie knew a lot of this crap.
>a handful of Mormons land in Bug territory, despite the fact that the Federation told them explicitly not to. >the bugs respond by completely annihilating Buenos Aries >the bugs refuse diplomacy and only seek domination >"The bugs are justified" Yeah, okay you bug sympathizer.
Did the bugs actually destroy Buenos Aires? Meteor launched from Klendathu (bug homeworld) on the opposite side of the galaxy would have to have a FTL engine in it, which bugs don't have. Bugs shouldn't be able to endanger humans in any capacity. Seems like "BUSHDID911" kinda operation.
Can you direct me to any passage of the book or movies where anyone from the Federation actually attempts diplomacy with the bugs? In SST3 and Traitor of Mars it's pretty clear at least 2 Sky Marshalls effectively became Bug COLLABORATORS. The closest anyone gets to actual diplomacy is: "My name is Johnny Rico and I say KILL 'Em ALL!"
8:33 That seems entirely fair. If you try and pull any stunts in pilot training irl, you're out. If your instructor can't drill that into your head and stop you, they're out.
The "bug meteor" that hit Earth always struck me as a major plot flaw. If it was travelling at sub-light speed it would have taken millennia to reach Earth, (easily detected) and if it was travelling at faster than light speed it would have destroyed the whole planet. Media Zealot raises a point I never thought of - that it might have been a false flag by the Federation to justify the war. The more I think about it, the more that makes sense.
@@TheKrensada The novel or movies have to actually add in scenes insinuating that its a false flag operation for it to be one. Much like in action movies where the good guy is never seen to reload or run out of bullets,(you wouldnt assume Rambo has a magical firearm of unlimited ammo in his possesion) the asteroid travelling across the galaxy at impossible speeds is just a product of movie magic. All these people talking about it being a false flag are just making up stuff that is not an actual part of the movie to try to reinforce the "facism" story that they are painting.
I know I'm late to this, but it'd take more than millennia. Way more. We're talking millions, maybe billions, of years depending on where it came from.
@@tjanderson5892 They show Klendathu being on the opposite side of the galaxy, iirc. Crossing the galaxy at the speed of light would take like 200,000 years, and that rock would be moving substantially slower, or else it would've done WAY more damage when it hit.
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 Nop 'To me the background to 40K was always intended to be ironic. [...] The fact that the Space Marines were lauded as heroes within Games Workshop always amused me, because they're brutal, but they're also completely self-deceiving. The whole idea of the Emperor is that you don't know whether he's alive or dead. The whole Imperium might be running on superstition. There's no guarantee that the Emperor is anything other than a corpse with a residual mental ability to direct spacecraft. It's got some parallels with religious beliefs and principles, and I think a lot of that got missed and overwritten. ' - Rick Priestley, in a December 2015 interview with Unplugged Games en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000 PS: when Starship Troopers came out in 1997, very few people understood it was a satire, critics included. It is only during the XXIth century that wide audience started to get its point Regarding 40K, back in the 90's, everyone were mostly aware of its satire. It is only on the XXIth century that wide people started misses it point Go figure Board Games. Geek were more aware maybe. Now 40K is mainstream, for wide audience, like movie and videogame audience... Oh, Wait! *An open Mind is like a fortress with its gates unbound and unguarded* Dawn of War 2004.
It really is strange that this futuristic militarist society doesn’t seem to have any armored or mechanized forces whatsoever. 100% of their ground forces are lightly-armed infantry. No tanks, trucks, half-tracks, artillery, or cars. So they have literally zero artillery or fire support beyond the occasional airstrike. Not since before the domestication of the horse have human militaries been without some kind of highly-mobile mounted troops.
I tried to make the Federation in Stellaris but it was impossible with their governing ethics being all over the place. Even trying to look up an idea let me I to giant diatribes of political theory and ethics where no agreed on anything.
Branches don't get along as it is. Even among the same branch, in the army the infantry looks down on any MOS that isn't 11,68, or a specific 13 series MOS. And even among the infantry, different division look down on each other, so that's accurate af
@@devilkingaming4619 I drank a lot of it in my day. I was ready to call somebody a dirty leg until I realized jumping was dumb as hell to do in real life.
@@xLionsxxSmithyx Aye, there's many folk who'd probably be ace in the military but who just can't mesh in the regular world - they get one diagnosis - legitimate or otherwise - or get in trouble with the law too much - and that's it, their best bet is to wait for fucking WWIII before the bar is lowered enough. Yet for whatever reason all of the wackadoos I've met get into the fucking Coast Guard, don't ask me how. I had trouble with the law as a kid, was sitting down with the Navy recruiter to try and join up - maybe get a medical gig - but the criminal rec was more than they were willing to forgive. Of course the fucking Marine recruiter was perched in the doorway to the Navy office like a fucking vulture - stuck his head in like "Heeeeeeey, we'll take you!"
0:52 Have you actually read it? I have, and I don't see it as fascism or militarism. To start with the Federation defines Citizens as any man or woman who has completed SOME kind of national service, not just soldiers. Scientists, Pilots, Doctors, and others can all vote provided they work for the federal government at some point. Further, the Federation actually discourages military service and tries to turn away recruits. If that weren't enough, every person is entitled to serve in some capacity should they desire to do so - including those with disabilities. This is not Nazism, it is simply a form of restricted democracy.
@drgenmo8340 covid proved that humans will obey unconditionally. The government did not do mass executions of dissidents. They just slandered and called them spreaders of misinformation and the dumb masses obeyed.
Most criticisms have nothing to do with the book and the director didn't even read the book. The book universe was not actually fascist and the movies were basically propaganda themselves.
Actually, in the movie it isn't Fascist either, even though it was suppose to be... You LITERALLY have a voting class that ANYONE is allowed to become a part of. That's literally the opposite of Fascism... Add to that we NEVER see the government lie or cover up its action, and even the war was in self-defense. It's ridiculous how not Fascist the Fascist government is in the movie...
I’m going to say, “no you are wrong”. Heinlein was Fascist leaning individual. He wrote the novel to depict a society with Fascism without Hitler and Nazi bad guy shit. The movies were directed by a left wing Socialist who took the job against his friends and family’s advice. He purposely did it so other left wingers wouldn’t shit over Heinleins work. He made the movie as neutral as he could do
A lot of people claim I am a super Tuvok fanboy. And it's partly true - He was my favourite character from Voyager, and I appreciate him even more now. But the real reason I chose him, is simply because he is a relentless source of cynicism, which fits perfectly with what I'm doing here. Jeff Goldblum's characters' quotes worked well for the very same reason. Indeed, every universe deserves a resident cynic, if only to keep everyone honest.
Well since he characterized the gocetment (my autocorrect just changed the properly spelled word to this, wtf) totally incorrectly, he actually might want to. Despite the Hugo boss style outfits, nothing actually fascist was portrayed in this movie.
@@reverendrico5631 Well I found a lot of different definitions of facism, so I guess as nobody has a clear understanding, at least none that most other pople will agree on, it is easy to call something facist. I for example like the more simple one 'Everything for the state, nothing against the state, nothing outside the state'. If the state is like god of a religion it´s probably facism.
@@SirMarshalHaig In the book, the UCF is fighting a war of annihilation against an alien hivemind that can't be negotiated with. Johnny Rico's friend, Carl, (in the movie played by Neil Patrick Harris) dies when the bugs attack his lab on Pluto. The UCF is also allied with an avian-like alien species against the bugs, and even with their help, bug attacks can still penetrate to Earth's solar system. In summation, you are fighting against genocidal, unthinking monsters and losing, and you think it's bad to devote everything and everyone to the fight?
@@millitron3666 Funny, when did I say that? I talked about the definition of facism, not about fighting aliens. But concerning your post, didn´t these 3rd party aliens used to be allied with the bugs first and changed their position then? So they could negotiate an alliance with the bugs and with the Federation...sounds like someone can talk to the bugs, so how genocidal and unthinking are they, if they were allied with someone else before?
@@SirMarshalHaig I might be mistaken, but I believe the other aliens were not allied with the bugs, they just fought the UCF in a different war. My point was just that, in the face of annihilation, fascism is moral. Extinction is worse than tyranny.
There are PLENTY of other differences between the book and the movie, but I think those three are just because it was a movie: not a lot of good CGI for the suits and no real understanding of military tactics on the part of the writers/directors.
Like entire chapters of characters discussing morality after in Universe current events... Like the discussion after the GUILTY verdict, or the "death" during training only being in a simulation in the book, with the flogging being for firing a nuke that "killed" a soldier in a sim.
@@Thomas-fz9xw it was a movie that never meant to be serious... while it share the name of main characters and book title, Starship trooper movie was more of satire of current society at that time. like the invasion was satire parody of gulf of tonkin. the first landing was satire of omaha beach where it was a meat grinder and failed of strategy. or the third one is satire about religious with was the thing in current society. The whole movie was parody satire of society at that time and history of US, same with Robocop (since both directed by one). The bug was satire as a perfect communist party with military tactic of human wave/bugs which got portrayed in the book and movie. the society of Starship troopers movie like US society at that time where veterans are elites of the society which is very true at that time if we look at the congressman and how much power military had during those time in US. The military tactic in the first movie was dumb down on purpose to be a satire movie. it never meant to be serious...
@@boocomban “the studios always wanted not to have a layer of lightness, a layer of irony, sarcasm, satire.” -Paul Verhoeven in an interview with Chris O'falt www.indiewire.com/2016/11/paul-verhoeven-slams-starship-troopers-remake-fascist-update-perfect-trump-presidency-1201747155/ Is this perhaps what you're talking about?
@@zmcg Yeah, the first movie was like "Let's use Soviet human wave tactics and don't give our boys good weapons." I really liked the book version troops. I wish there could be a fantasy, non-lore based version of the movie but with the Imperium of Man's Space Marines.
"this guy Baba somehow gained the rank of lieutenant..." option 1: he went to Officer Training School, and finished it. not everyone who finishes school has to have been good at it. any school, mind you. they just have to be passable. option 2: he was field-promoted, as was the case in World War I and II when there was no one else. also, Traitor of Mars is anime in disguise, and this trope is well-known one in that medium. "... despite being a bumbling idiot." - Murphy's Law 62: "The most dangerous thing in the world is a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass." its actually pretty realistic that way.
Hell, avoiding this kinda thing is why in the book MI officers are required to have been in combat and nominated for OTS. Sure realistically it has all kinds of problems of its own (makes it hard to maintain an officer corps in times of peace for one), but at least you know they're capable in combat!
Question is, why do you even need a permit to have a child in a civilisation that keeps killing troops by thousands on a daily basis and needs replacements...
Because after 200 years from now they finally reduced the Chinese and Indian population to something reasonable and are not going to let that happen again. Lol
They need the replacements to be registered at birth. You may be surprised to know but there are lots of people who aren't registered at birth even in modern US society.
Wow. I hadn't realised the guns were actually missing iron sights. Your comparisons to World War I were also interesting. The rest, I was already aware of... then again, I might've watched this before and just missed those details.
Brian CP and fifty seconds in he said the novel was meant to show the authors love of authoritarianism. So his actual awareness of score materials is somewhat questionable.
@@reverendrico5631 Everytime I hear people saying that Heinlein loved fascism...when he was borderline Libertarian...(granted, Starship Troopers wasn't exactly too deep into individual values but he wrote a lot more other stuff and never said that the UCF was his ideal Government)
Joshua Sharwood yeah he wasn’t in favor of any of that. He was an icon of the hippies because they misread the message of one of his books. He spent years telling hippies to fuck off as a readily. His point was that free love and group marriages would destroy any concept of society as we understand and why that was a bad thing. As for misogynistic and xenophobic; well given how subjective those words have become, I’d have to see a pretty damn good argument for that. I’ve seen his quotes dropped out of context and come off that way. Of course people intentionally ignoring the context of his words is a consistent problem when discussing his works.
14:20 It's really fitting that the "Mobile Infantry Administration" shares an acronym with "Missing In Action". They are nowhere to be found when they should be taking responsibility for their f*ck ups, blame always ends up on some grunt or something.
I re-watched this and thought to myself "Maybe it's impossible to do the whole "military sci fi/space marine aesthetic and NOT come off with a big degree of Fascist aesthetic as well" - then I remembered Halo. Then I realized that was the first time I thought about Halo in over ten years. Man, Halo was wholesome af. If you take it at face-value, it should be positively grimdark - you have what's essentially the Alien UN waging a generation-long genocide crusade against a haggered humanity, an extinct race that's extinct because they built life-ending superweapons supervised by temperamental mechanical constructs, and a galaxy-devouring space plague with the most fucking pedantic and self-fellating hive mind I've seen from a ripoff of Audrey II - this should be some Warhammer 40k-levels of depression but it just approaches everything with this sense of "can-do" grounded optimism. It's like the anti-Starship Troopers in this regard, which is funny because Starship Troopers was one of its biggest influences.
Halo has fasc in it, but for most citizens, its basically star trek and only gets wierd when genocide comes calling. Well, out colony stuff is not quite like that, but thats anotehr discussion.
@@BoraHorzaGobuchulindeed. Verhoeven deliberately made his movie (the first one) into a critique of American society as he saw it could develop. As with so many books made into films, it doesn't necessarily follows the book to the letter.
1.- A harsh society, divided by design. Rebellion becomes inevitable. 2:55 2.- A militaristic society where quality military hardware is scarce, and military tactics and strategy are severely lacking. 12:06 3.- A society utterly devoted to war, whit a dysfunctional military administration, puts their civilisation at great risk. 20:58
In my NCO class, we agreed that we were adults and used the same room to change into our PT gear; until the guy assigned to guard duty decided to make it creepy and chill while the girls were changing. A-hole ruined a good thing.
I hope you remember you will see unattractive women in the shower if your dream comes to pass. Even if everyone is a fit, well trained soldier, ugly people would still exist
@99legion Allowing women in the military is fine, as long as they're required to pass the same test to get the same job. The problem is that many countries' militaries give female recruits easier fitness tests, which means they aren't able to keep up in real combat.
"This is a live-fire exercise! I expect extreme caution on my assault course!" *Random people walking on all sides of the course.* I guess that means the people who miss are also missing those random extras as well...
No the Federation is a lot better than modern society their media is honest, their government officials own up to their mistakes, they protect their borders, they don't infringe on your rights to be left the fuck alone, their education system doesn't indoctrinate the youth
@@michaelkeha Protect their borders from who? Who is the enemy that's invading? Sounds like racist dog whistle to blame economic issues on the "other".
29:00 "It was a sleeper agent all along" Was this actually confirmed? It seems equally possible the brain bug's capture was legitimate and corrupting the Sky Marshal was simply improvisation and opportunity.
To be frank, the Starship Troopers' form of government reminds me of nothing more than ancient Rome. While it was not a requirement to be a veteran to vote, all public offices required at least 10 years of military service. During the Republic era, this prevented the rise of a leisure/political class. So, the concept isn't as out there as it might first seem. Also, since people can choose to become a citizen through military or civil service, I don't think it will have nearly the destabilizing effect that you are thinking it will. A dual class system causes problems mostly due to the underclass wanting rights that they cannot get. Here, there is relatively easy social mobility, which would stop it from being a culture breaker.
Very similar because you could earn your citizenship as a member of the Auxilia, albeit it required 25 years of hard military service, but once a citizen it was not just you, but your line as well. You can certainly see the connection to the Federation Military.
@conan263 Marus Licinius Crassus would like a word with you about capitalism during the late Republic. He'd like you to have a seat on his solid gold sofa while you wait, and put your feet up on the ivory table. Don't bother to wipe your boots, though, it's not like he can't afford to replace it.
One of the few people who understand history and can see the obvious similarities between the Terran Federation and Republican Rome. This very type of government is what raised Rome from a city state to an empire, and of course the deviation from civic service and responsibility due to the results of empire is what caused it to decline and fall. Nothing at all to do with Facism, mainly repeated by people who read reviews from other people who actually either never read the book or did and didn't understand it or history.
@conan263 Someone evidently doesn't really know what capitalism is. I'm not particularly fond of capitalism, but it helps to at least know the stuff you'd find in an economics 101 textbook...
And look what happened to the Roman Republic. In the book they talk about the system like it is perfect, that it cannot possibly fail and say its all thanks to the military veterans who seized control and established the system. All the while seeming to ignore signs that suggest things are not as wonderful as they make it out. They say their justice system is perfect because it teaches people to obey the law, except they find it necessary to execute criminals. Are these people just poor students? Or perhaps you are just aren't good teachers... The failure of the invasion in the book also raises questions about their education. The attack failed because ships came out of hyperspace too close and crashed into each other. Are you so focused on 'history and moral philosophy' that you don't bother to teach mathematics and physics? Your so worried about teaching recruits how to be proper citizens that you never taught them how to fly the spaceship?
No you didn't. You can absolutely get punished for showing up with a new tattoo that doesn't adhere to Dress and Appearance standards, but it wouldn't be for defacing government property. Soldiers, sailors and airmen are not government property and nothing in the UCMJ says they are. Either your friend is full of shit, or you are.
I saw his documentation, a friend of my father's, this was in Germany in 1961. Watch who you call full of shit! I didn't say it was legal, I said it happened. But I guess everything that happens in the military is legal, right?
@@brendanmontague2143 This is a commonly repeated old wives tale. If the military generated paperwork for it, then yeah, it was definitely legal. I am not saying they didn't get fined, I am saying it wasn't for "Defacing Government Property".
You should look at Wakanda from Black Panther (2017). I heard that it has so many problems as being a practical example of an advanced ancient civilization, especially one controlled by humans.
No the guard have access and use artillery, tanks, air support, orbital bombardment and actual fucking tactics. anyone charging a titan with a bayonet is ether bait/a distraction for these other forces to use to kill said titan/evacuate or its a last stand and they're already dead. A Guardsmen die but any commander worthy of the position doesnt waste their lives needlessly. Side note: Penal legions are not really guardsmen and thus can be used in such pants on head retarded ways, at least in the eyes of the imperium.
@@_Ekaros The shockwaves caused by the Titan's steps would make most Guards puke their own lungs out of pressure...and then you got to deal with the Void Shield...so no. There is a reason why the Emperor conquered everything in his path, but when he got to Mars he went all "OK, so, let's talk this out"
When a “dumb bug hoard” manages to accurately target asteroids and then launch them at a distant planet at enough speed to bypass physics with a slow moving projectile And you barely train your troops in how to fight your main enemy
do you think that they made the shots of humans swarming in a similar fashion to the bugs on accident? They clearly wanted you to know that the federation is not very smart/this is not a realistic story.
As a retiree, somethings about their weapons, armor, and tactics what you said are true. They are all designed around stopping civil disputes. The U.S. military trained for jungle warfare for years. Then fighting against the Russians in open field combat. Not until 9/11 tactics changed to urban combat. Same with our weapons. We still used a M2 machine gun. A variant of the m16, the M4. We had flak jackets that were very well known to be useless. So yeah. I agree they were very unprepared, but they didn't expect anything but dumb uncoordinated things walking around due to the random conflicts. So basically Vietnam of the first year. EDIT: Terrible grammar I suppose??
Jason Leon the tactics were bad for sure I would have preferred to bombard the planet with millions of large meteors before any ground troops are even sent to the area.
Jason Leon, just so we are both on the same page about the M2 it is not a variant of the M16 but a .50 cal heavy machine gun. The M4 is a variant of the M16 but pretty much the same thing with a short barrel and a collapsible stock.
First thing that damn Sky Marshal should know is bug can accurately fire meteor from their planet that nearly million light year away with precision in human life time. That mean meteor travel faster than light before came to solar orbit (you seen it slow down to anti-meteor missile can shoot down). No thing in this damn universe can do this if they don't have futuristic knowledge like FTL deep space travel. That mean this specie bug is not dumb it just look dumb.
@@streetfighterguy1909 If I meant a m16 is a variant of the M2 I would use a coma, not a period. Though I will agree that it does look that way. I need to fix it.
I've seen this film and read the novel multiple times. The deviations from the source material were deliberate on Paul Verhoeven's part. Originally the film had nothing to do with the novel, but when Verhoeven found out it was going to be licensed, he decided to subvert what he felt were the militaristic and proto-fascist readings of the novel (whether or not Heinlein intended them). Hence the film came out swinging with an anti-war, anti-authoritarian message; the corruption, incompetence, and sheer stupidity of the UCF were by design. Just like how Robocop was about police corruption of the 1980s, the Starship Troopers film was based on the buildup in the late 1990s that led to the War on Terror, which was launched just 4 years after the film's release. Like Orwell's "1984" it was intended as a cautionary tale about militarism and imperialism. It's one of those films I still go back and watch today.
It's all of the above. Orwell's writings are frequently described as such based on his experiences in India and the Spanish Civil War, as well as how he identified politically. This does not invalidate your other point, which I agree with. londonhuawiki.wpi.edu/index.php/The_Influences_of_George_Orwell%27s_1984
@@EksaStelmere I found the quote you're referring to. "I stopped after two chapters because it was so boring. It is really quite a bad book. I asked Ed Neumeier to tell me the story because I just couldn't read the thing. It's a very right-wing book. And with the movie we tried, and I think at least partially succeeded, in commenting on that at the same time. It would be eat your cake and have it. All the way through we were fighting with the fascism, the ultra-militarism. All the way through I wanted the audience to be asking, 'Are these people crazy?'" www.empireonline.com/movies/features/paul-verhoeven/ The same article also points out how Heinlein had written the book to espouse the virtues of military service, in response to criticisms of the US nuclear testing program. So Verhoeven was probably not that far off base.
Long ago, I read the book before I saw the movie and the movie fighting confused the hell out of me. The infantry in the book were all in powered armor that was dropped individually like paratroopers from orbit. They had jump jets in their boots and carried missile launchers, bombs, and flame throwers. I remember the book saying that guns had been discarded because most ammo was spent making the other guy duck instead of shooting at you. So when I saw the movie it seemed obvious that they barely read the book. I think a lot of problems with this civilization was that it was represented in bad movies.
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Sounds like your taking a shit
YOU'LL KEEP CREATING
AND YOU'LL WIN
Nice video, love this movie. Question, why was Trump pictured right after Stalin and Hitler? Are you saying he falls in the same category? If you believe that, I need to know because I don't support fascist/socialist/communist ideals. Trump can be crude, rude, wrong, and many other things, but implying Trump is in the same boat as those two is anti-american and incorrect. In my opinion, it's close to treason. You can believe whatever you want, but I do not support communists, especially comrades Biden/Harris. I'm not trying to start a war here, just trying to get your position clarified, I think mine is clear.
You don't understand political ideologies just like the person that made the film and it is pretty clear that you didn't read the book...
Service guarantees citizenship, not military service guarantees citizenship... SMH, why did you even pretend you read the book? Most of the citizens aren't in the military they served through other means. If you don't have a stake in something you tend to make poor choices, which is something you seem like you would know a lot about.
"Somehow gained the rank of Leiutenant despite being a bumbling idiot." Most realistic part of the movie IMO.
I like that idea run away naked lol🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
yes, i agree
@@insertcolorherehawk3761 dude I'm active duty right now. Pretty sure I know my basic rank structure lol.
@@obsidianthurisaz5106 Fair enough, though I originally deleted the comment because I realized just how stupid fictional societies could be
Now Captain, that's not nice to say . . .
The reason Rico was whipped was because in the books, the armor was bulletproof power armor. It’s like master chief removing his helmet in the middle of a fire fight
dunno in 40k all main char remove their helmets
In 40k in the books all the characters wear their helmet unless the helmet is damaged
@@SupremeGrand-MasterAzrael maybe but you can check the minis, they have more than not their helmet off
@@flexprime2010 The only reason why its like that on the table top is to be able to tell what the model is at a glance and to be able to pick out where it is.
So, the Halo TV show
“The Soviets are our adversary. Our enemy is the Navy.” - Curtis LeMay
Interservice rivalry is a fine Terran tradition.
@William Casey - Kind of... but if one looks a bit, they will discover that said nations usually have vastly reduced budgets and the defence sector is but an afterthought in their society.
Netherland, modern Germany and their ilk may have military branches that do not waste energies in infighting, but also have no money to spend and the military career is seen mostly as a dead end for nincompoops in their society.
It's hard to keep a rivalry up when everybody is depressed and worried.
Soviet is a rivalry we might or might not fit he one day, but pentagon budget war against the navy is the war we fight every year
The Japanese thought that too and it crippled their war effort in WW2. Nope, you should not treat any part of your fellow soldiers as enemies. Nothing good comes from it.
@@shiroamakusa8075 I think the rivalry is more of a "He has better privileges! " and "I am more cooler!" than actually actively deny intels among each other.
You wanted to say a japanese tradition
Rico getting whipped for letting a man be killed in a live-fire drill actually makes some sense in that screwy world: Rico and others were stopping to talk to each other as live ammunition is whizzing around them when they had to stay mobile at all costs. That was beyond stupid for Rico to permit it and no wonder one of them was killed. It was actually relatively lenient under the circumstances.
That live fire drill was literally designed to kill people tho.. in that scene you can see the course is just casually built around the rest of the training ground where other recruits are jogging and doing other things. The emphasis was put on who wants to be the squad leader over working as an effective fireteam as well, for all their worship of the military its pretty clear that this society probably long ago forgot about how to actually fight and train for wars properly.
@@EdgeO419
?
Corporal punishment virtually never works to achieve the desired ends. Oh, it might temporarily discourage SOME behavior...maybe, but the discouragement only works IF the punishment is comparable in severity to the crime and ONLY for so long as the authority doling out the punishment is watching.
As another commenter noted, the exercise was designed to kill people. What do you think happens when you run a strong electrical charge through the body of someone who has their finger on the trigger of a gun? The same thing that happens every single other time you run a current through muscle tissue, it uncontrollably expands and contracts. The exercise was so dumb and sadistic that even a high school PE teacher couldn't come up with it.
@@ryanstewart5727 The idea is to discourage the other soldiers, not Rico himself, Furthermore he was punished for having a person under his command be put in more danger than was necessary, punishing small mistakes like this happens alot in medicine if the patient dies, even if the direct cause was out of anyones control.
Not only that but someone died, the 2 people who were punished for the death was, The person responsible for the shooting(just cause the electricity made them fire isnt an excuse, thats poor trigger discipline along with carelessly aiming the gun back down range cause of the shock), and the commanding officer who was responsible for his team.
And finally this is a Facist Military run Government designed to emulate Nazi Germany and alot of the elements present in 1984. What else do you expect
@@Lordgrayson I would expect a society advanced enough to make the very laws of physics their bitch to not be stupid enough to think that corporal punishment actually works to produce long term change. It's something they would absolutely be aware of too because WE learned it before the alternate history diverged.
I get that the writers were going for a "this society is bad" vibe, but you can do that without having them be terminally stupid.
Half these complaints are real things in militaries. Training officers often ARE responsible for any screw ups by those they train. Questioning a superior can and is treated as insubordination. Inter-service rivalries are common.
Interservice rivalries are not common. Look it's pretty simply one force wins the wars. The Airforce. The army fucks around trying to figure out how to read. The navy is too busy 'testin out, them cheeks'. The Marines are at fashion week trying out new uniforms, and the coast guard.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
But in seriousness Star Ship Troopers is actually very much like the modern military. If your trainee fucks up you will be held responsible, If you tell someone to remove a helmet when they shouldn't and they get fucked up, you will feel the wrath, you can ignore 'unlawful' orders but you had better make DAMN sure you are right. Punishments are very much doladed out based on how much the CO likes you (unless its a DUI then you fucked no matter what)
romad20000 I mean, Navy has better pilots, sooooo...
Marines are the men's department anyways....
so many real military forces share traits that could have them cathegorized as too stupid to really exist? who would have thought.
I dont think you assume a system is stupid u dont understand
15:00 "Or you could just run off to war completely unprepared for the battle you're about to be engaged in." I really wish this happened only in fiction. Hell, for every complaint in this video, you could find a real-life comparison.
CT68 the best real comparison for that comment is the battle for Guadalcanal in ww2 the marines had ww1 equipment and it was a massive cluster fuck and was almost a defeat.
Well, that is the point of satire.
Verhoeven was born in Amsterdam in 1938, and made a movie emphasizing the parallels he saw between the book, Nazi Germany, and the US.
America handling COVID-19.
@@m0nkEz The movie is a failure of a satire though
Send your donations to the Ukraine please! For freedom’s sake😂😊
I like that in the books when you sign up for the Military, they give you 24 hours to reconsider and think about it. If you come back great, if you don’t it’s fine and you aren’t reprimanded.
It's literally the same shit irl except you get way more than just 24 hours by the time all the paperwork is done and you stepped in that plane it can take months and you can decide to stop at any point in time.
That is unless, war is declared.
I think its actually 48hr but ya the book had some interesting ideas.
@@NautilusSSN571 yes but the book you didn't even need to tell them you quite you just don't show. Also any point during your service you can quite in the boon which is kinda interesting.
NOOO ITS MILITARISTIC FASCIST, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
The idea of having a efficient form of warfare that minimises human casualties is based on the idea of human life having value. Once you abandon that idea all that stuff about inefficient leadrrship, organisation, tactics and equipment become secondary concerns. At that point it's about feeding enough meat into the grinder so the meat never realizes it's got value. And if you have enough humans reproduce you can just keep turning the handle. It's never about winning. It's about going on indefinitely.
Or, ya know, the efficient form uses things that make humans obsolete, like what’s better? A weak squeamish flesh bag that needs armor, food, sleep, time to poop etc, and might deny orders because “it is just plain wasteful”?Or robots that can kill anything they see 24/7, can self repair and won’t have any chance of going rogue.
@@kaiserhundkek2531 I'd say robots are expensive. Life is cheap.
@@Awesomotron2k But it takes 9 months to pop a baby out and if you are smart about things, 18 years worth of training at least, with all the supplies and shit to give to a solder to have them do their job, a robot in a decent factory can be pumped out in maybe a few minutes in a scifi world (I don't know the way robots are handled in this universe) also no time needed to pay teachers to teach they can just copy and paste some code, no money wasted on regular amounts of food cuz there robots, and the federation has access to multiple planets worth of shit, resources are most likely not a problem.
@@kaiserhundkek2531 robots can’t be trusted we will require humans but not in numbers I have a theory about training the soldiers to prime and not militarise everyone like have an army which is small but can hit hard and are not cannon fodder like give each solider a sort of exo suit and instead of 5 years of training with the majority being bookcamp urge that up to 15 years of training with the weapons and to get commanding officers who actually care about thier soldiers and those who know when to retreat especially when your army is small but can hit hard.
The way how the Soviets loved to fight - waves of meat sent out into the mincer.
A lot of the people who were told to charge were the people they "conscripted" from lands they took over, not to say that a Russian's life wasn't "light" for their govt to throw away as well. but a lot of the people on the frontlines weren't Russians, and had snipers aiming at their backs, if they thought about running away.
Germany started thinking about optimizing its force later, when able-bodied and military trained men started "running out" (dying).
"Some how gained the rank of lieutenant, despite being a bumbling idiot"
Thats pretty accurate
Foxhole Norman comes to mind...Band of Brothers
I found the E-4 mafia, everybody. 🤣
@@TargunYssboern A point but the 2 can be interchangeable when lives are on the line. Now Lt Peacock irrc was ok as a soldier...but was something of an idiot as an officer particularly when it came to map reading.
I will say, that the majority of brand new LT'S in the army are a bunch of bumbling idiots, at least at first, they are taught to be *leaders* taught that their orders will be followed simply because they are given, and that's not entirely true, like anything it takes time to develop the skills and understanding that it takes to be a leader. Understanding that you dont know everything, and that utilizing the experience of those who are under you to the fullest. Is the right way to go about it. Also be very aware that there is no such thing as an LT who has common sense. That is most certainly a learned skill.
As an LT myself, I strongly disagree. Hey sergeant, which button do I push if my feelings are hurt?
Damnit, I fooked it up - plz don't tell the CO.
Doogie Himmler...that killed me!
Also, your take on how the Mobile Infantry lines up against the bugs on Klendathu is spot on. An 18th century regiment of American Revolution era Patriots with muskets would be more effective than these saps.
Yeah, because at least they would fire by rank, and not just the front most rank
Except this is a criticism which applies to the Verhoeven-shredded narrative of the movie, and not the book which was the source.
Verhoeven hatred the book, refused to read it, and wanted, from the beginning, to make a sci-fi movie about the Nazis that shaped his young life as they walked over his home country in WW2.
@@MonkeyJedi99 yeah cus the video is about the movies. In the book the MI were in power armor with jump jets and tactical nukes and things like "firing lines" don't even apply. Because of course the authoritarian warmongers of the book were also totally smart and are going to win! Props to Veerhoven for shredding that narrative.
They just werent ready for their enemy they thought the bugs were just dumb animals
@@ntfoperative9432well
The patriots are more likely to be militia and thus undisciplined and untrained compared to a standing army
They might work for ambushes and such but ain’t no way you are going to beat one of the most powerful armies in the world by shooting them once in a while
The book was quite a bit different. Troops had jump suits in the book. I've seen clips where the producer said the move wouldn't be worth watching if all the troops had to do is fly around in suits and shoot down at the bug's.
The Doogie Himler gag was LoL.
Which only makes it obvious he didn't take much anything from the book, as the Arachnids in the book used technology.
@@stevenschnepp576 Stupi species don't build spaceships.
@@Prich319
The Arachnids in the book aren't stupid; they just cannot comprehend the value of unitary human life or any reason why they'd want to negotiate humanity because theirs is a hive intelligence whose closest human equivalent is mental communism that actually works. Not only are they capable of building underground cities with technology, they have space ships and even a means of communicating with and allying themselves alongside other intelligent species, like the "skinnies".
@@stevenschnepp576 The plot was at first only inspired by the book, and meant to be a comedy/satire. Later it was adapted to be a film adaptation of the book. Oh, and of course, that would both be a lot more expensive to produce, but also created a more boring movie that absolutely wouldn't be as memorable as it is today. It would be more realistic and follow the book more closely, yes, but the movie isn't trying to do either.
I believe it was Ellen Ripley, wise warrior/sage, in the movie Aliens that offered up one of the greatest strategies committed to celluloid, when she offered up this GENIUS absolute GEM when dealing with an alien species such as this: "NUKE 'EM FROM ORBIT"!!!!
It's the only way to be sure!
"Hold on, hold on one second. This installation has a substantial dollar value attached to it."
Ripley truly is one of the most badass people to grace humanity.
Purge the xenos! Who needs land armies when you can just blow the planet up amirite.
The insects shoot plasma right of their asses that destroy their ships in orbit
You should look at the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k. I bet you’ll have fun with that.
EDIT: I didn’t imagine a joke of a comment would be taken seriously. I mean yeah it would be fun to see it but I originally thought his channel would mostly focus on movies. (Until he pointed out he would focus on other mediums and genres.) but still I am glad people really wanted to see that video.
The thing is about the IOM is that there is a reason for their society. chaos corrupts all and its hard to move things forward while there is an evil space hell force that will corrupt everything you do.
So how does that keep them from developing A.I s. I'll cut them some slack they do have the whole age of iron , and they sorta did chug the god emporer of man kool aid a long time ago.
Well yeah it's intentionally stagnant and broken - heck only reason why it's holding itself together is it's size alone.
@@mrmaxwell346 They did develope A.I. - it's just usually either done where bunch of zelouts hunt them down, or said A.I. kill everyone off (Men of Iron - basically super powered robot revolt). And chaos does mess with A.I.s and you don't want your city sized mech turning on you now do you?
@@jerminnigor4095 Yeah, but there is a LOT of dumb independent of that. Part of their Imperium had a war against another part over heresy (because EVERYTHING is heresy) What was this heresy? They were confused about what calendar to use.
They regularly lose entire star systems...not losing them to enemies, but they just forget they have them for decades at a time. etc etc etc
In the book the troopers are also wearing power armor and carrying powerful weaponry like mini tac-nukes.
Don't forget the firepills! :D
@Aspiring Marauder that the movie made changes from the source material.
@Aspiring Marauder IS DAT SUM ANGRY MARINES REFERENCE?
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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUCK YOU!
@Aspiring Marauder there is no way a space marine is using 10 inch thick armor, get yourself a ruler and see just how much 10 inches is. Space marine armor is more like 10 mm thick.
@@Sargonarhes I am sure it is thicker than that, in the novel they use mechanized exoskeletons, think fallout 4 power armor but with mininuke launcher, gatlin laser, jetpack etc, they at least have a couple inches of plating but 10 inches is way to much.
Are we just going to ignore the amazingly clever hidden pun that is Admiral A. Phid?
Not to mention female named Snopp, which means dick in Swedish
I missed it. Thanks.
@@SwedishEmpire1700 Her name is SNAPP, not SNOPP.
That women at the desk in a white suit? At 20:44? I think her initial was E not A unfortunately. That would of been funny tho for sure. Unless it's another scene?
@@Wally480 *would've
Simply swapping the underslung shotgun for a grenade launcher would probably be enough for the infantry to dominate most bug engagements, as long as they have enough ammo anyhow
Starship Troopers 4: The Spirits Within
Starship Troopers 5: Advent Children
What the f*ck!?!
Those are actually pretty good. Aside for Rico looking like Big Boss from Metal Gear.
Scientology: The Spirits Within.
Those two were good movies. I somehow lost *both* of them somewhere. I'm usually very good about only losing things in my own house to turn up later, not into some black hole void forever, which seems to be the case all these years later since I still can't find them.
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure you meant to say 'especially with Rico looking like Big Boss from Metal Gear'.
These are not 'good movies' but they are fun.
You forgot to mention that rico's the one that told the guy to take off the helmet.
Also a point is that this military needs an enemy to function. And it could be that they see the bugs as the last resort enemy, so it could be that they wont develop actually battlefield defying equipment so they can preserve this threat as a threat.
A military doesn't need an enemy to function. It's there in case there _IS_ an enemy. Have you ever cared to study history or even read the novel?
@@Mr.Ambrose_Dyer_Armitage_Esq. have you heard of a military industrial complex. Or imperialism, fascism or just runaway propaganda?
@Julian Dacosta
I am familiar with all of them; I am also acquainted with human nature, which evolved tribally not unlike our simian ancestors. War is inevitable and as such, armed groups develop with every human group that has an interest in competition and survival against other groups. Imperialism, fascism, and the military industrial complex are all infinitesimally young next to man's history and inherent need for combat.
@@juliandacosta6841 have you heard of Russia? the ultimate scapegoat
@@jamesbyrd3740 I have heard of Russia. Some conspiracy theorists are blaming the Ukraine war on them.
I'm basically watching these for all the Tuvoc clips.
Eric Staples I love those too; my personal favorite is “Fire suppression is out!” from the Smokers episode. xD
Tuvok
5 bucks says the us air force could wipe out united citizen federations attempt to invade with ease just by using missiles on their troops muhahahahaha
hell even the us abandoned the hummer for better armored vehicles to protect their troops in combat
He does seem to like the guy...well him and Patrick Stewart shooting things
The thing is, The Federation has all the aesthetics of fascism (the appearance of it), but none of the practicality of it. The citizens have some additional rights, but it's less segregation and more minor nepotism, which also really doesn't affect the lives of ordinary people.
This is to the point where civilians actively mock people who take on Federal service, and in some quarters it's even seen wasting your life (in the book Johnny's dad goes on a big tirade against it).
Also, far from being manipulated into military service, people are actively discouraged from joining. At every turn of the application process individuals are told that it will be incredibly hard, that they'll probably get hurt or killed and that their lives will be better in the civilian world.
While I personally don't agree with corporal punishment, the book at least makes the argument that it's generally preferable to prison (when it's done it's done, there is no stigma, it's a short sharp shock that doesn't just make people into more hardened criminals). The book also emphasises personal freedom as a key value in their society, not exactly a fascistic concept.
I ultimately don't agree with Heinlen's analysis, but his concepts are a lot more nuanced than the simplistic label of 'muh fascism' would imply. Even if you don't agree with him the book is certainly a stimulating read, well worth it.
I feel that it is a very misunderstood book it's not fascism, it's representative democracy but the act of gaining suffrage is federal service. A service that the state is required to offer you if you require it, and it has to be something you can do. If you're a pacifist, they can't send you to the military...
The fact is that even if the boom states one thing, it doesn't mean it works. Marx wrote extensively about Communism so it means it works because it's wrotings say so?
It doesn't take much for a Starship Troopers govt to go full fascist since it's already set to be extremely militaristic and tyrannical.
@@phantomsoldier497 The notions that 'freedom isn't free' and that 'rights come with responsibility' are core to the very idea of democratic liberalism - a system and philosophy that fascism and communism challenged directly in the 20th century. Heinlein was writing in the aftermath of WWII and reflecting on how frail freedom truly is - the bugs represent a direct threat that can't be reasoned or compromised with, the antithesis to the individuality and self-autonomy that we strive toward.
Neither the book or film are 'hur dur, fascism go brrr', and they don't really totally agree or disagree - but it's more like a conversation between intelligent and insightful creative visionaries. Heinlein might be saying you have to earn and maintain freedom even if reluctantly, Verhoeven might be warning against taking it too far lest you lose what it is you valued so much. They're both valid and thought-provoking POVs which provide lucid and unsubtle social critiques in their own cultural contexts.
That still doesn't justify how garbage their military is. Frankly, I side with the bugs. They didn't start the war. The federation did in order to send people to their deaths as a culling mechanism. A true perversion of war.
It's unsurprising though. This Federation was founded by valance horny ex-military humans addicted to battle.
The Federation is an anti-democratic totalitarian regime with a hard on for war and death.
remember the book, where the armor has been done correctly? the anime version ones... where Rico got whipped not for tampering with a helmet but for shooting a nuke too close to his own men?
In the book, he didn't even shoot a nuke. It was a dummy round used for training.
@@allamericanslacker2378 now I remember, you are right. It has been a long time since I read it... I need to read it again...
@@allamericanslacker2378 he also only got 5 lashes.
@@allamericanslacker2378 Still it was one of many examples that book Federation actually do cares for it's men and woman. I remember the scene with the disabled recruiter, who walks around with two very real looking and feeling arms and legs after closing times.
@@Myuutsuu85 I never said otherwise.
The original movie only uses a couple flavors from the book itself. The main reason being budget for the movie, the book itself covers Mech suit base weaponry, and most of the games in the series get much closer to cannon than the movie did.
"none of these branches seem to get along with each other." oh, you mean like every real military ever?
Right,. What the fuck is he talking about? banter and rivalry is one thing, and fighting a war is another. He acts like they would be fighting each other in war.
Oh? so I guess the "real" military is perfect. Well pack it up boys! No need to solve any problem in the (US) military cos it's so perfect (despite not really winning a war in over ~60 years)
@@mikejohnstonbob935 I also sometimes have the desire to project my idiotic, uninformed and generic thoughts onto what people say, even when what they say has barely anything to do with what I'm thinking. the difference between you and I is that I often think before I project, and maybe even re-read the comment I'm about to project onto. try it sometime - you may even find you'll sound less like an idiot.
@@rigel1088 america has been an near constant war since ww2...
@@realdookoos that's literally not true, there are no offical wars, we're not at war with any country and we haven't been since a while now
Lieutenant isn't a rank you're promoted into, it's the opening rank when you come out of the Academy, it's generally good for them to listen to their veteran sergeants to help make the best decision
Though, since the UCF doesn't split enlisted and officer ranks, it's probably possible that most lieutenants did come from the enlisted path
You can get a brevet commission or frocked
I think there are field commissions
I liked band of brothers. Following winters career
All officers started as enlisted in the book. Pretty sure they had to also do at least one combat drop too. But the book also had orbital insertion and powered armor, so there are a few differences between book and movie
@@codyabbott1863You couldn’t hit NCO without a combat drop and you couldn’t commission until you were already an NCO. (It’s been years since I last read the book so take this with a grain of salt)
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess this guy hasn't had the displeasure of dealing with any real world militaries. Either as a soldier or as a civilian.
In real life, the following are accepted as being normal:
- Rivalries between branches.
- Poor Intel often leading to failure.
- Conflicting advice from Drill SGTs
- General cock-ups.
- Poor resource deployment.
- Infantry being morons.
- Training that is outdated.
- Weapons that are outdated.
- Doctrine that is outdated.
- Not enough training.
- Higher ups covering their asses.
- Everyone covering their asses.
- Morons being promoted.
- Frequent incompetent officers.
I could go on but half of his criticisms, while maybe valid, are very much based in what actually occurs in military service. ST just displays all of that with a very pessimistic and cynical slant, so elements are exaggerated.
Nice imput man. I also think that all the power games between different parts of the goverment or allied goverments also plays a role in the cluster which is war.
Historically violence has been the deciding factor of conflict. A government without the ability to defend itself, and acquire resources wont last long. Creating competitive rivalries between branches, and creating a sense of pride and elitism also seems to be a normal thing for military and paramilitaries throughout history.
Well. I quess is okay as long as the soldier who are supossed to work togheter start fighting eachother or trying to get all glory for themselves.
Everybody should try to do better no matter what.
@@user-nu8in3ey8c From my limited service, rivalries between the Army and USMC, or the Navy, or the Air Force, are very common. I've only ever done one NATO deployment but, surprise, there was quite a bit of competition between us and the Brits.
It's usually in good fun but some idiots don't quite get that and will sometimes start shit or throw a punch.
I don't think it's manufactured, it's more like buyer's remorse but with a faction rather than a game console or car.
I guess that's what happens when a civie gives their take on something they haven't done or seen irl.
It's like WW1 in space
*DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG HAVE ENTERED THE CHAT*
death korps of krieg shoots the comissar for cowardice
Did someone say 'die for the Emperor'?
I will lay down my life for the emperor
The difference being, the Krieg fuck shit up.
The Troopers get shit fucked up.
@yo wtf put the mask back on Kreigers fuck everything, including their homeworld's own atmosphere. Movie Mobile Infantry get fucked by everything.
"You get the promotion after proving yourself". Evidently somebody hasn't been in the military.
I just thought you hang around long enough without fucking anything up catastrophically and get pushed into it, silly me.
Just remember regulations and lead pt.
Robert Heinlein was; I'm not sure if Paul Verhoeven was or not.
@@jenniferbrewer5370 Verhoeven is a great film maker. But he fails to understand fascism or the military beyond aesthetic sense.
Apparently it's different depends on what military you serve and what types of government you have. British military used to allow you to buy into the commission instead of earning it, but hey, they still conquered half of the world.
Starship Troopers has this huge pro-military slant because the writer for the book Robert Heinlein was extremely pro-military, which is kind of funny since one of the next books he penned was "Stranger in a Strange Land" was extremely popular with hippies... He was an odd dude.
Yes, because you cannot have a liberal democracy without people willing to defend it from others who'd seek to impose their ideologies and/or faith upon you and your fellows and you cannot have a sustainable democracy unless those ruling it have demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice everything, including their own lives and freedom (temporarily), for the good of their fellow citizens. A Heinleinian democracy is the only sane iteration of democracy, without which nations decay.
@@Mr.Ambrose_Dyer_Armitage_Esq. Vietnam and Indonesia has shown not everything has to be sacrificed for survival
@@3dcomrade
No, but those who freed them from imperialists _WERE_ willing to sacrifice everything, including their own lives, to achieve victory. The Tet Offensive alone is a grand example. Militarily? It failed and most of the attacking forces were slaughtered BUT...by systematically probing the South for weaknesses and showing their resolve to the American people, they won a psychological victory that broke the Americans' resolve to continue fighting. Every man who threw himself at South Vietnam's defense KNEW he'd probably die but, that it'd ultimately be worth it.
My words stand.
@@Mr.Ambrose_Dyer_Armitage_Esq. the Tet Offensive did not destroy the capabilities of the North Vietnam Army. As they are still able to fill the gaps left by fallen Viet Congs in the South(to conserve the insurgrncy) and also keeping the regular Army intact to face a probable American attack to the North
@@3dcomrade
...
"Sky Marshals only accountable to military veterans"
Didn't Sky Marshall Deans resign after the absolute disaster that was Klendathu? Making military strategy accountable to military strategists seems like a good idea for saving lives and incentivising highly effective military tactics. There are a lot of problems with the movies, but this isn't one of them.
Interestingly, in the book, the mobile infantry is far more technologically advanced elite troopers, to the point where one person can easily take out hundreds of bugs with little effort, with advanced jump jets and a lot of other really cool tech. However, the bugs can reproduce extremely fast and have a massive numbers advantage. The movie(s) sort of gloss over all this and make the mobile infantry regular army grunts like today that die by the hundreds. The second and third movies sort of give the MI the tech they had from the start.
all so to public as others exept marauder ones got boot after theyre fuck ups
@Zerebrat Eightyseven Yeah the strateghies make sense in the books, in the movies it's more like a meat grinder
jeeps ma dauce woud have been improvement
@@pt8306 I think the reason why the mobile infantry (funny name given that all infantry is basically mobile) was so different in the movies was because they didn't know for sure they would get the rights to the books and had hence change costumes enough for plausible deniability.
@@Nonsense010688 They also didn't had a budget to make all of that "sweet sweet tech", at the time CGI was at it's begginings, there were tecnical limitations to what they could rapresent from the book
Service Guarantees Citizenship
(on a side note, why'd you call the book authoritarian? People who've never read the book are the only ones who make that mistake in my experience)
I've read the book, and while I think Heinlein's vision is foolish and wrong, It's decidedly not authoritarian.
@@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump I'd argue it's idealistic rather then foolish, but yeah otherwise I agree.
Yeah the book lays out a near perfect libertarian society in my opinion, the public has no sway or say over the private and vice versa
@@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump ever read his other novels? the moon is a harsh mistress shows a much different set of ideologies.
I agree. Novel is literally a paradise for those who don't try to join the military or look for a life as a politician.
A few military things:
12:45 : Interservice rivalry is definitely a thing across all military's ever. The US military during WW2 is a good example; Major military cities often had to deal with drunken street brawls between Sailors, Marines and Soldiers. However, when the time came to actually fight (almost) everyone was able to put it aside and work together. Of course it can be taken to far - The Imperial Japanese Army and Navy fought over literally every cent and piece of scrap metal, which when combined with the near non-existence of any kind of civilian government, spelled doom for any chance of effective cooperation.
14:38 : "Fighting the Last War Syndrome" is definitely a consistent issue whenever a country initially goes to war; see The Entire Western World during WWI; France and England during WWII; America during Vietnam; America during the War on Terror. What really matters is being able to quickly learn the lessons of the new war and apply them effectively.
21:28 : Eh, true to life at least. Even in the modern military we emphasize both speed and safety in accomplishing tasks, although which takes priority depends on the situation.
22:43 : The whole "junior officer is given command of a squad of veterans" is trope because it is extremely common across all militaries, of all time periods. Everyone in the modern military has at least one story of an incompetent Lieutenant or Ensign fresh from OCS, who doesn't know what they're doing and makes things harder for senior and junior enlisted alike. This is because Enlisted and Officer are two entirely different career paths; a lieutenant is a direct equivalent to a private, different only in what kind of training they've received.
25:18 : "Military Intelligence is a contradiction in terms" - Groucho Marx. Military Intelligence is weird. It is a key part in any military option, often a deciding factor, and yet it is very hard to get right. No matter how good you are, no matter how much information you've gathered, it often comes down to making an educated guess and hoping you're right. "High Confidence" = 75-99% sure.
Mentions inter service rivalry but does not mention Imperial Japan. The rivalry was so intense the Japanese army of the time had to build it's own fleet of aircraft carriers because the IJN could not be trusted to provide air support or even transport army aircraft so they could do it themselves.
@@lolroflroflcakes
But... I did. I did mention Imperial Japan. Literally in the first paragraph.
Look at the Japanese army vs the navy?
What!? You expect the average viewer to read your whole comment now? Preposterous!:D :D :D
@Dahn Seems like that guy acted exactly the way your average 18 year old does today!
The faults of the movie version of the UCF make sense when you realize that their entire society is based on little more than the ideal of collective sacrifice. It's a parody of Jiongoistic fascism, where the objective of war isn't the pragmatic achievement of victory but rather in the perpetual creation of a permanent class of hero-citizens whose only job is to further the cult of sacrifice (and therefore loyalty to the regime) to the next generation. If anything the stupidly high death counts are actually an essential ingredient to the whole system rather than a flaw, think Imperial Japan.
Or it could be just to pretend something's going on and have something the masses can be entertained/emotional with. Maybe they are completely beyond a necessary point of fighting and just needs control tools.
@Silverknight171 Yeah, a bit. Better to live with meaning and die than to live with none and just exist for decades, purposeless.
That's why you should read the book. The guy who directed the movie didn't even read the book or attempt to understand it.
It seems like there's no real problems on earth. So they keep the war machine constantly grinding in order to control their population and keep the military in power. With a constant stream of new veterans that perpetuate those wars.
Tell me you have a child's understanding of the material without say you have a child's understanding of the material.
You're definitely right about the movie's. The book version was actually quite competent and surprisingly humanitarian. Particularly where the military was concerned.
Extremely humanitarian. I mean, the punishment for quitting the military and going home is...you won't be allowed to vote. Really cruel. xD
Mhm. The series gets a bad rep for being 'fascist' when it's basically an idealistic liberal globalist society. To the point where the military doesn't conscript you, or try to convince you to join. They try to get you to QUIT. It's like the Federation in Star Trek if they still used money and weren't a galactic force but a budding extra-solar one. Except the first time they find aliens in Starship Troopers, the aliens don't offer them help. They try to murder everyone.
@@enderoctanus they dealwith the most glaring problem with democracy, people only in it for self gain are less able to sway people who have personally given blood for the society
@@irishcream9004 you mean like a 1-party system? If history has taught us anything, it's that anyone not given a voice in government will likely become a marginalized people and be oppressed. It works in the novel because it's a work of fiction.
Well the lazy half-wit who made the first movie didn't even bother fully ready the book, so the movie is an incredibly lazy straw man of the first few chapters of the book.
I'd say the society in the book is actually fairly competent.
So tired of people claiming "this is what the book says" who clearly haven't read the actual book - y'all are passing around a "coles notes" version written by a libertarian who wants to pretend that Bob Heinlein was as stupid as Ayn Rand (and/or himself). The book is very, very clear that anyone who wants to become a citizen has the right to do so, even if they are so inept and incompetent that the state has to create a make-work position for them to do their "service", and that "service" includes the entire civil service down to the trash-pickers, NOT JUST THE MILITARY. And it's equally clear that our hero Johnny only wants to go into the military because he's got the hots for Carmen. (And, reading between the lines, that the author wants him to because he's got a story to tell, and it wouldn't be as interesting if Johnny was a trash picker.)
The whole lengthy induction process is in order for the state to find out what position(s) the applicant would be most useful in, because they CANNOT be refused for any reason save outright criminal behavior. And, once the process is complete, the applicant is given a short list of options to choose from - and a "cooling off" period in which they can decide against taking any of the offered positions and return to their non-citizen life without any penalties whatsoever. IF they choose to proceed, they must complete their service or be discharged for cause: they aren't allowed to back out after they start, because that would be really, really, really, really expensive for the state if they are in a military branch, and a violation of principles of fair treatment if they aren't (why should non-military inductees be allowed to leave if military ones aren't?) because training is /enormously/ expensive - which the book proceeds to illustrate in detail.
Heinlein was an elitist, not a libertarian, and his concept of "elite" was "intelligent, self-motivated, ambitious AND empathetic", and he couldn't have cared less about gender, race, religion, or even sexual orientation, because anyone of any label could turn out to be one of his elites. He thought the state was absolutely obligated to provide the most extensive education each person was able to complete, and a basic minimum standard of living that enabled their children to focus entirely on their education, regardless of whether the parents were competent to breathe.
This book was one of several treatises on this elitism, with the specific focus that citizenship (defined as the right to engage in politics on any level, including the franchise) should be earned, not endowed, but /anyone/ had the right to earn it (and that non-citizens had the same rights as citizens, just not the privilege of governing).
NOT a libertarian.
Well said!
While I've been aware there was an original (expectedly) misrepresented source material, I've seen/heard nothing, up to now, that's peaked my interest in it, I thank you. Where would you suggest I start? 🤔 (assuming 'the start' but you never know 😂)
Well written, this novel is also on the reading list in the Marine Corps for its lessons in command and leadership. It is most certainly not some fascist hand guide to the future.
I wouldn't say he's definitely not a libertarian - definitely not anarcho-anything, I give you. But the fact is, the democracy in Starship Troopers (the book) is quite similar to the ideas of democracy of the old political-economical school from which modern libertarians derive, besides the one thing - universal franchise (which is only universal if you exclude everyone who doesn't get to vote, which is something around 20% of the population of a typical democracy today; much more than at the start of 20th century, but hardly universal).
Look at what Heinlein's state does - it provides free education, it provides security (military and emergency services), and that's basically it. It doesn't stamp all over free enterprise. It doesn't try to destroy anything private. It's strong on personal responsibility, and abhors group responsibility in all forms. Johnny's father is a successful businessman without getting the franchise - the franchise is seen as another responsibility, *not* a privilege. The political power is very limited in practice (we don't know much about how limited it is de jure). Even at the height of the war with the bugs (and their allies), they don't stoop to conscription or nationalization. They still do their best to protect territories that aren't _quite_ theirs, but also aren't enemies.
So, in no way fascist. Or nationalist. Or racist. Or white-supremacist. Or sexist. Definitely free market democracy in the old sense (i.e. "majority doesn't give you the right to dictate to others"). Not anarcho-liberal, but something that most libertarians I know would be quite happy with. Even if you might find some things objectionable (e.g. corporal punishment, especially with regards to kids), we're talking about a society that's closer to liberal (in the old sense) than anything we've had in the past thousand years.
The film, on the other hand, had nothing to do with the book. The studio just acquired rights to filming the book, slapped the name on a film they already "had", renamed a few characters and just put it out there. So, for people claiming it's a smart satire of the book or Heinlein's ideas... nope. It's a satire of american jingoism, something that survives to this day, despite the advances in american girth :)
This comment has made me want to read the book. This is some mad detail .
"These bugs really must be smart if they can launch a precision attack against Earth from millions of years in the past."
Which is why we know the federation launced the asteroid at earth. Just like they set up colonies in bug space to provoke a reaction from the bugs.
@@CrowColdblade Bugs still attacked first. The first contact ever was a catastophic case of bug agression.
Cough, Shin Getter Robo, cough.
@@CrowColdblade The bugs as psionic to some extent. I.e. they can consume the minds of humans and communicate with each other telepathically. They also reproduce by shooting their spores at other planets in the first place. So bugs attacking Earth, rather than it being a false flag, is plausible. Although a fascist government staging a false flag attack to justify war would hardly be anything new...
Yeah Paul Verhoeven is a dumbass.
He never even read the novel (refused to, actually) and just wanted the movie to be all about fascism and demanded bugs instead of the "actual" Arachnids so that Federal Fascism would be front and center instead of the actual complex story of two high tech space-faring races playing politics with one another.
End result, hack writers had to find a way for literal bugs to destroy Buenos Aires (instead of the canon occurrence of an Arachnid Special Operations Team inserting through the defense grid to plant nukes in BA.)
Though it has the same name as Heinlein's classic novel, this movie has many shades of Joe Haldeman's classic, "The Forever War." Both novels were compared heavily against each other, though the authors had nothing but praise for each other. In Haldeman's work, Earth's government facilitates a war with an alien race on the flimsiest of pretexts and then keeps it going seemingly forever. There is no end in sight, just the next battle.
Heinlein's Terran Federation is not comparable. Because the only people allowed to serve are volunteer citizens, and because all citizens have an incentive to preserve the government they had to sacrifice to become a part of, war is inherently disadvantageous to wage. They can't conscript civilians (that'd dilute their offerings and empower weaklings contrary to Federal principle) so, it'd mean they just be expending their brothers and sisters in arms in a war of attrition with the hopes that the same people who spurned them as morons and meatheads would be willing to change their minds and likely die in combat for a system they bitch about constantly.
kind of like neoliberal empire under neocon warmonger leadership, what we have now
I'm sure most people who have served in the military can tell you military intelligence is an oxymoron
They are too occupied killing some civilians in another country, I think
Dave Mustaine was right
@@plankdorodo3122 clearly you don't know anyone who served. Otherwise, that military intelligence joke was invented by all-talk blowhard civvies who thought gender studies would make a great and useful degree.
@Your Neighbor Is A Bot it's the truth. Gotta wonder if you're American with that comment. If not, you don't have a leg to stand on, much less the authority to comment on the matter.
@@warfightersanonymous7760 this. Exactly this is a prime example for why everyone else (not us- Americans and even a good amount of us citizens ) are laughing at us-americans. The amount of arrogance and ignorance combined with stupidity is just loudicously ridiculous. "If you're not American you have no right to say anything about american whatsoever, as you are an inferior being". Funniest part about all this is that you are stupid or ignorant enough to not understand this. Go on and give the rest of the world more things to laugh about. It could be sad if you wouldn't be that proud, arrogant and ignorant,behaving like superior beings. How is the Corona virus pandemic without an public health care system and an idiotic child (at best) for president ? America first ! (place in the Corona ranking). Thanks for the laugh;)
When the first movie was released, I was serving in the Army. The part I simply could not wrap my mind around, was the HUNDREDS of rounds of ammunition that could fit in a standard 5.56 mm rifle magazine. They hold 30 rounds in real life........PERIOD. Look at the magazine that Rico tosses to Diz while saying, "Make 'em count". It's an M-16 or Morita mag with a plastic cover on it! LOL Even Rob Heinlein would have gone straight to cringe factor 10.....No wait 11 (it's one higher). Once again, Great Video. Thanks :D
Rob The Crazy Ronin future tech
If you can make caseless boolits, you can (maybe) double the number on same box
@Dan Gurău They actually shoot a 5.56 mm round like the U.S. Army M-4. Almost no kick at all lol.
The United Citizen Federation Would Like to Know Your Location.
Would you like to know more?
There is a big disconnect between the book and the movies, the Director of the film never read the book. In the book the mobile infantry wore advanced armour, and trained in all environments with all types of weapons.
I’m pretty sure he did read it because he’s commented that he hated the message (mainly the military worship), which is why he made the movie lambast it.
@@miyuedelfelt2676 He didn't read it. he said he read the first chapter and then dismissed it as facist propaganda
@@darnis6497 his opinion on the message wasn’t wrong though.
@@miyuedelfelt2676 Except for the part where it completely is. Starship Troopers isn't facist at all.
@@darnis6497 ok, it’s not fascist, it’s just jingoistic bullshit, and boot licking.
The CGI looking movie is: "Starship Troopers: Traitor of Mars" if anyone was wondering.
@Media Zealot
Could you add that to your info part? Just in case anyone, like me, was wondering what it was. Thanks!
wolfhunter98 Thank you so much I thought it was a video game on account of looking like Deus Ex
@gabe pambukci Never said was any good. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Wizard Lords the first CGI was barely enough for me... oh, and the OVAs, but still mediocre
I wouldn’t call it “copious”. Female Breasts are tremendous, and so is equality. Also Johnny was being repaired not experimented on.
Paul Vahoeven wanted to show male frontal nudity as well, but couldn't in America. He could only get away with showing a penis in Hollow Man because it's seen through a thermal imaging camera.
Justin Last gimmie Dina Meyers (Dizz) any day. I saw this flick just after being dumped, I’m happy with the loyal badass.
charles hetrick Dina Meyers is still HOT as the surface of the sun. DR was ruined both mental and physically by Charlie sheen.
@@charleshetrick3152 Youre absolutely right, thats why i married one of those. 11 years in, still a loyal badass :D
Nils Holgersson at plus +20 years mine is a little angrier than I’d have expected but still a loyal badass.
so what's more complicated, writing the script or finding the right Tuvok clips to use?
Tuvok is his spirit animal.
It's the scriptwriting, just in its unpredictability. It's tough dealing with big content civs, so much information to deal with, so many inconsistencies, conflicting continuities, etc. I wrote the Dinohattan episode in one day, this one took me quite a bit longer.
My Tuvok scene harvesting is more efficient than ever, I basically just have a text doc full of Tuvok quotes that I've copied and pasted from series transcripts. I also slowly watch Voyager during downtime, and take note of any interesting moments. It's just a matter of reading through the doc and slotting a few quotes into my script. Now that I'm using premiere pro, taking the actual scenes is a lot quicker. The cutaway scenes and little mashup sections add another day's work, but I feel like it's worth it.
Thanks for recognising my struggles!
Thanks. Keep up the good work
Unfortunately, history is full of regimes that share most of the Federation’s flaws and, at the very least, survived long enough to do an awful lot of damage.
Doesn't the UCF in the story also survived till now?
Except the Nazis weren't the "bad guys". Their enemies were and they convinced you there is a pandemic and Iraq had WMDs and a whole host of other deceptions. Think about that
@@smallhatshatethetruth7933 People have to find out on their own the big lie. The big H is an article of faith in the West. And Marxism has replaced religion for many people.
@@hideousruin Pfft I expose it in public while wearing an NSDAP badge
@@hideousruin Been fired from a job, suspended by another, been reported to the police twice and been threatened with physical violence several times but I'm still not bothered by the risk
"None of these [Military] branches get along...'
Meanwhile, in every real world Naval Academy:
Singing: "We're not The Air Force,
Lounging On the Golf Course"
thats you government military that does that, its not the same every where, and he said that it draw a lot of parallel to our system.
@@mat5637 bs, here everyone shit on air force, and marine
At least the chair force doesn't hang out with crayon eaters :P
Honestly we're would your military be if it wasn't for your airforce in WW2 probably renamed the luftwafa
Eh, ultimately they do fight together though, it's less overt hostility and more just poking fun at each other, at worst it's just basic rivalry.
The movie is a satire. Its meant to be ridiculous and over the top.
The movie is, yes. Some people are saying this review is as well, but I'm not convinced.
@@DolFan316 i had the same thought towards the beginning but by the end it felt too serious haha
@@levimalone4433 While I can understand why you would not be sure if it was supposed to be satirical, this is also the same channel, who when he "reviewed" or talked about the Kryptonians from Man of Steel, he made part of the video an impromptu dubstep/rave music video, using their Kryptonian terraforming machine thing as a part-of-a-city sized subwoofer. Media Zealot, or at least every one of his videos I have watched, is just having fun...being a sarcastic, satire loving, jerk. XD If you haven't watched that episode about the Kryptonians and you enjoyed this one in the least, you should do so, it was pretty good.
@midgetydeath so it ended up being a satire of fascism because the director was trying to do the opposite of what the book was doing, but ended up do what the book did.
Yeah and he is just pointing out the examples of how retarded their society is. It doesnt matter if it was made that way or not. Certainly the writers of the movie knew a lot of this crap.
>a handful of Mormons land in Bug territory, despite the fact that the Federation told them explicitly not to.
>the bugs respond by completely annihilating Buenos Aries
>the bugs refuse diplomacy and only seek domination
>"The bugs are justified"
Yeah, okay you bug sympathizer.
Did the bugs actually destroy Buenos Aires? Meteor launched from Klendathu (bug homeworld) on the opposite side of the galaxy would have to have a FTL engine in it, which bugs don't have. Bugs shouldn't be able to endanger humans in any capacity. Seems like "BUSHDID911" kinda operation.
@@uFFFO Steel meteors can't melt Buenos Aries!
@@TiberianFiend All the resulting fires sure did.
Can you direct me to any passage of the book or movies where anyone from the Federation actually attempts diplomacy with the bugs? In SST3 and Traitor of Mars it's pretty clear at least 2 Sky Marshalls effectively became Bug COLLABORATORS. The closest anyone gets to actual diplomacy is:
"My name is Johnny Rico and I say KILL 'Em ALL!"
@@TiberianFiend 7-eleven was a part time job
8:33
That seems entirely fair. If you try and pull any stunts in pilot training irl, you're out. If your instructor can't drill that into your head and stop you, they're out.
The "bug meteor" that hit Earth always struck me as a major plot flaw. If it was travelling at sub-light speed it would have taken millennia to reach Earth, (easily detected) and if it was travelling at faster than light speed it would have destroyed the whole planet. Media Zealot raises a point I never thought of - that it might have been a false flag by the Federation to justify the war. The more I think about it, the more that makes sense.
Where's the evidence the bugs sent it? Think about that
@@TheKrensada The novel or movies have to actually add in scenes insinuating that its a false flag operation for it to be one. Much like in action movies where the good guy is never seen to reload or run out of bullets,(you wouldnt assume Rambo has a magical firearm of unlimited ammo in his possesion) the asteroid travelling across the galaxy at impossible speeds is just a product of movie magic. All these people talking about it being a false flag are just making up stuff that is not an actual part of the movie to try to reinforce the "facism" story that they are painting.
I know I'm late to this, but it'd take more than millennia. Way more. We're talking millions, maybe billions, of years depending on where it came from.
@@proudpapaprick not really sure why it would be anywhere close that far/long at all.
@@tjanderson5892 They show Klendathu being on the opposite side of the galaxy, iirc. Crossing the galaxy at the speed of light would take like 200,000 years, and that rock would be moving substantially slower, or else it would've done WAY more damage when it hit.
Starship Troopers tells us the story of how the Imperium of Man came to be
I thought that was Event Horizon
Except with Warhammer it's hard to tell if it is supposed to be a over the top satire or completely serious and edgy.
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 Nop
'To me the background to 40K was always intended to be ironic. [...] The fact that the Space Marines were lauded as heroes within Games Workshop always amused me, because they're brutal, but they're also completely self-deceiving. The whole idea of the Emperor is that you don't know whether he's alive or dead. The whole Imperium might be running on superstition. There's no guarantee that the Emperor is anything other than a corpse with a residual mental ability to direct spacecraft. It's got some parallels with religious beliefs and principles, and I think a lot of that got missed and overwritten.
'
- Rick Priestley, in a December 2015 interview with Unplugged Games
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000
PS: when Starship Troopers came out in 1997, very few people understood it was a satire, critics included. It is only during the XXIth century that wide audience started to get its point
Regarding 40K, back in the 90's, everyone were mostly aware of its satire. It is only on the XXIth century that wide people started misses it point
Go figure Board Games. Geek were more aware maybe.
Now 40K is mainstream, for wide audience, like movie and videogame audience... Oh, Wait!
*An open Mind is like a fortress with its gates unbound and unguarded* Dawn of War 2004.
No it didnt.
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 Same as here!
It really is strange that this futuristic militarist society doesn’t seem to have any armored or mechanized forces whatsoever. 100% of their ground forces are lightly-armed infantry. No tanks, trucks, half-tracks, artillery, or cars. So they have literally zero artillery or fire support beyond the occasional airstrike. Not since before the domestication of the horse have human militaries been without some kind of highly-mobile mounted troops.
Like USA in Vietnam. Because terrain don't allow it.
@@butthurt3297 But the terrain allows it...
Because they don't want to win, but to wage endless (and fruitful for generals) war.
Yeah, weird, almost like the director was trying to save money on his way to making a accidentally making movie with no actual fascism in it
I tried to make the Federation in Stellaris but it was impossible with their governing ethics being all over the place. Even trying to look up an idea let me I to giant diatribes of political theory and ethics where no agreed on anything.
Branches don't get along as it is. Even among the same branch, in the army the infantry looks down on any MOS that isn't 11,68, or a specific 13 series MOS. And even among the infantry, different division look down on each other, so that's accurate af
Don’t forget the Airborns looks down on practically everyone but special operations.
@@Mudoh415 yeah absolutely, especially the 82nd they chug that airborne Kool aid daily.
@@devilkingaming4619 I drank a lot of it in my day. I was ready to call somebody a dirty leg until I realized jumping was dumb as hell to do in real life.
@@Mudoh415 I was 10th mtn myself, I gave everyone hell cause I was freezing my ass off lol
@@devilkingaming4619 I legit went to Airborne school to avoid that assignment. I was not ready for that cold.
As Quigon Jin would have told them: "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent"
That can be said for alot of people trust me on this 🤣
"This guy somehow earned the rank of Lieutenant - despite being a bumbling idiot ill suited to life in the infantry"
*The feels*
As doc can confirm Lt is lost in land nav again.
to be fair lieutenants are the officer's version of the private, so yeah i can see him being a bumbling idiot
@@ryanbraat1821 ButterBar manages to get lost in the port a shitter. The door wasnt shown on the map
I'm amazing at land Nav, only reason I'm not in the military is because I'm too mentally ill.... Fml.
@@xLionsxxSmithyx Aye, there's many folk who'd probably be ace in the military but who just can't mesh in the regular world - they get one diagnosis - legitimate or otherwise - or get in trouble with the law too much - and that's it, their best bet is to wait for fucking WWIII before the bar is lowered enough. Yet for whatever reason all of the wackadoos I've met get into the fucking Coast Guard, don't ask me how.
I had trouble with the law as a kid, was sitting down with the Navy recruiter to try and join up - maybe get a medical gig - but the criminal rec was more than they were willing to forgive. Of course the fucking Marine recruiter was perched in the doorway to the Navy office like a fucking vulture - stuck his head in like "Heeeeeeey, we'll take you!"
0:52 Have you actually read it? I have, and I don't see it as fascism or militarism. To start with the Federation defines Citizens as any man or woman who has completed SOME kind of national service, not just soldiers.
Scientists, Pilots, Doctors, and others can all vote provided they work for the federal government at some point. Further, the Federation actually discourages military service and tries to turn away recruits.
If that weren't enough, every person is entitled to serve in some capacity should they desire to do so - including those with disabilities. This is not Nazism, it is simply a form of restricted democracy.
Rico's constant promotions and demotions and near executions Etc remind me of the Korean Admiral Yi soon shin
Sounds like separatist or even bug propaganda but ok
They get inside your head.
@@goatwarrior3570 Well, it's more reasonable to pick the winning and more powerful side.
You would be surprised what people put up with if there is political and financial stability
this statement is so true for the so called "western democracies" that I reside in
With the coronavirus "pandemic" being an example of this conspiracy.
@drgenmo8340 covid proved that humans will obey unconditionally. The government did not do mass executions of dissidents. They just slandered and called them spreaders of misinformation and the dumb masses obeyed.
@@smallhatshatethetruth7933 You're a fucking retard if you think "Western Democracies" are the worst things in the world right now.
I love how the debate show is titled "Who do we Blame This Time?"
Most criticisms have nothing to do with the book and the director didn't even read the book. The book universe was not actually fascist and the movies were basically propaganda themselves.
Neither the writer nor the director of the movie read the book
@@knightingale9833 bingo
Actually, in the movie it isn't Fascist either, even though it was suppose to be... You LITERALLY have a voting class that ANYONE is allowed to become a part of. That's literally the opposite of Fascism... Add to that we NEVER see the government lie or cover up its action, and even the war was in self-defense. It's ridiculous how not Fascist the Fascist government is in the movie...
The movie was a satire propaganda film.
I’m going to say, “no you are wrong”. Heinlein was Fascist leaning individual. He wrote the novel to depict a society with Fascism without Hitler and Nazi bad guy shit. The movies were directed by a left wing Socialist who took the job against his friends and family’s advice. He purposely did it so other left wingers wouldn’t shit over Heinleins work. He made the movie as neutral as he could do
I love your usage of Tuvok clips, they’re absolutely hilarious!
Every universe needs a Tuvok!
A lot of people claim I am a super Tuvok fanboy. And it's partly true - He was my favourite character from Voyager, and I appreciate him even more now. But the real reason I chose him, is simply because he is a relentless source of cynicism, which fits perfectly with what I'm doing here. Jeff Goldblum's characters' quotes worked well for the very same reason. Indeed, every universe deserves a resident cynic, if only to keep everyone honest.
It's MAGAZINES, not clips.
garreswe Lol!
He is like the voice of common sense which is so often lacking.
You should've looked into the book on the philosophy of the Federation.
Well since he characterized the gocetment (my autocorrect just changed the properly spelled word to this, wtf) totally incorrectly, he actually might want to. Despite the Hugo boss style outfits, nothing actually fascist was portrayed in this movie.
@@reverendrico5631 Well I found a lot of different definitions of facism, so I guess as nobody has a clear understanding, at least none that most other pople will agree on, it is easy to call something facist. I for example like the more simple one 'Everything for the state, nothing against the state, nothing outside the state'. If the state is like god of a religion it´s probably facism.
@@SirMarshalHaig In the book, the UCF is fighting a war of annihilation against an alien hivemind that can't be negotiated with. Johnny Rico's friend, Carl, (in the movie played by Neil Patrick Harris) dies when the bugs attack his lab on Pluto. The UCF is also allied with an avian-like alien species against the bugs, and even with their help, bug attacks can still penetrate to Earth's solar system. In summation, you are fighting against genocidal, unthinking monsters and losing, and you think it's bad to devote everything and everyone to the fight?
@@millitron3666 Funny, when did I say that? I talked about the definition of facism, not about fighting aliens. But concerning your post, didn´t these 3rd party aliens used to be allied with the bugs first and changed their position then? So they could negotiate an alliance with the bugs and with the Federation...sounds like someone can talk to the bugs, so how genocidal and unthinking are they, if they were allied with someone else before?
@@SirMarshalHaig I might be mistaken, but I believe the other aliens were not allied with the bugs, they just fought the UCF in a different war. My point was just that, in the face of annihilation, fascism is moral. Extinction is worse than tyranny.
Actually, I'm not bothered by Starship Troopers. This movie is hilarious and infinitely quotable.
The troops in the book version are actually better trained, equipped and tactical. The directors of the movies threw that shit out the window
There are PLENTY of other differences between the book and the movie, but I think those three are just because it was a movie: not a lot of good CGI for the suits and no real understanding of military tactics on the part of the writers/directors.
Like entire chapters of characters discussing morality after in Universe current events...
Like the discussion after the GUILTY verdict, or the "death" during training only being in a simulation in the book, with the flogging being for firing a nuke that "killed" a soldier in a sim.
@@Thomas-fz9xw it was a movie that never meant to be serious... while it share the name of main characters and book title, Starship trooper movie was more of satire of current society at that time. like the invasion was satire parody of gulf of tonkin. the first landing was satire of omaha beach where it was a meat grinder and failed of strategy. or the third one is satire about religious with was the thing in current society. The whole movie was parody satire of society at that time and history of US, same with Robocop (since both directed by one). The bug was satire as a perfect communist party with military tactic of human wave/bugs which got portrayed in the book and movie. the society of Starship troopers movie like US society at that time where veterans are elites of the society which is very true at that time if we look at the congressman and how much power military had during those time in US. The military tactic in the first movie was dumb down on purpose to be a satire movie. it never meant to be serious...
@@boocomban “the studios always wanted not to have a layer of lightness, a layer of irony, sarcasm, satire.” -Paul Verhoeven in an interview with Chris O'falt
www.indiewire.com/2016/11/paul-verhoeven-slams-starship-troopers-remake-fascist-update-perfect-trump-presidency-1201747155/
Is this perhaps what you're talking about?
@@zmcg Yeah, the first movie was like "Let's use Soviet human wave tactics and don't give our boys good weapons." I really liked the book version troops. I wish there could be a fantasy, non-lore based version of the movie but with the Imperium of Man's Space Marines.
Something about Starship Troopers really bugs me....
And bugs make fascism look sexy.
@@jontlchiu Bugs represent communism. Humans represent fascism (in the movies, that is). That's why they're perfect reflections of each other.
[/rimshot]
I carry a can of RAID, at all times
"this guy Baba somehow gained the rank of lieutenant..." option 1: he went to Officer Training School, and finished it. not everyone who finishes school has to have been good at it. any school, mind you. they just have to be passable. option 2: he was field-promoted, as was the case in World War I and II when there was no one else. also, Traitor of Mars is anime in disguise, and this trope is well-known one in that medium.
"... despite being a bumbling idiot." - Murphy's Law 62: "The most dangerous thing in the world is a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass." its actually pretty realistic that way.
They're dangerous cause they can't landnav for shit, and can get troops sent to the wrong places.
@@muffinsanobviousname thanks for simplifying it.
Hell, avoiding this kinda thing is why in the book MI officers are required to have been in combat and nominated for OTS. Sure realistically it has all kinds of problems of its own (makes it hard to maintain an officer corps in times of peace for one), but at least you know they're capable in combat!
Question is, why do you even need a permit to have a child in a civilisation that keeps killing troops by thousands on a daily basis and needs replacements...
Because even if they are dying like flys, you still have to transport them to they destination.
Because after 200 years from now they finally reduced the Chinese and Indian population to something reasonable and are not going to let that happen again. Lol
The ironic part is, we need to have that in our real life current society (even though its impossible)
They need the replacements to be registered at birth. You may be surprised to know but there are lots of people who aren't registered at birth even in modern US society.
Wow. I hadn't realised the guns were actually missing iron sights.
Your comparisons to World War I were also interesting.
The rest, I was already aware of... then again, I might've watched this before and just missed those details.
I don't like how you try to justify the bug atrocities by the end.
This is bug propaganda.
That would be magazine sir, clips are not the same as magazines.
@CommandoDude I mean its still incorrect, but you do you fam.
Oh sorry, what I ment was
"I don't really get what you mean when you say that we should just make up definitions to already defined words."
@@johnnygreenface
That was just pathetic, try again. I mean it, btw, in case you don't get it
@CommandoDude that's literally like calling a car a carriage
@@GTAmaniac1 try searching the term "motor carriage" your mind will be blown.
It's almost like the whole movie is a satire
Yes, and this video understands that.
He says that like 30 seconds in
Brian CP and fifty seconds in he said the novel was meant to show the authors love of authoritarianism. So his actual awareness of score materials is somewhat questionable.
@@reverendrico5631 Everytime I hear people saying that Heinlein loved fascism...when he was borderline Libertarian...(granted, Starship Troopers wasn't exactly too deep into individual values but he wrote a lot more other stuff and never said that the UCF was his ideal Government)
Joshua Sharwood yeah he wasn’t in favor of any of that. He was an icon of the hippies because they misread the message of one of his books. He spent years telling hippies to fuck off as a readily. His point was that free love and group marriages would destroy any concept of society as we understand and why that was a bad thing.
As for misogynistic and xenophobic; well given how subjective those words have become, I’d have to see a pretty damn good argument for that. I’ve seen his quotes dropped out of context and come off that way. Of course people intentionally ignoring the context of his words is a consistent problem when discussing his works.
14:20
It's really fitting that the "Mobile Infantry Administration" shares an acronym with "Missing In Action".
They are nowhere to be found when they should be taking responsibility for their f*ck ups, blame always ends up on some grunt or something.
Did you even read the book?
I re-watched this and thought to myself "Maybe it's impossible to do the whole "military sci fi/space marine aesthetic and NOT come off with a big degree of Fascist aesthetic as well" - then I remembered Halo. Then I realized that was the first time I thought about Halo in over ten years. Man, Halo was wholesome af. If you take it at face-value, it should be positively grimdark - you have what's essentially the Alien UN waging a generation-long genocide crusade against a haggered humanity, an extinct race that's extinct because they built life-ending superweapons supervised by temperamental mechanical constructs, and a galaxy-devouring space plague with the most fucking pedantic and self-fellating hive mind I've seen from a ripoff of Audrey II - this should be some Warhammer 40k-levels of depression but it just approaches everything with this sense of "can-do" grounded optimism. It's like the anti-Starship Troopers in this regard, which is funny because Starship Troopers was one of its biggest influences.
I prefer Warhammer Fantasy/AoS than 40k tbh.
Halo has fasc in it, but for most citizens, its basically star trek and only gets wierd when genocide comes calling. Well, out colony stuff is not quite like that, but thats anotehr discussion.
It was intentionally fascitisized and dumbed down by Verhoven.
@@BoraHorzaGobuchulindeed. Verhoeven deliberately made his movie (the first one) into a critique of American society as he saw it could develop. As with so many books made into films, it doesn't necessarily follows the book to the letter.
Skymarshall "Amy Snapp"? What was the alternative? Skymarshall "Pop Tart"?
Nice
general grievous Time to kill some Jedi scum
@@CareraDrift yes it is
@@generalgrievous2202 hello there
@@ntfoperative9432 *sigh* general kenobi.
Suddenly questioning whether the narrator has what it takes to be a citizen.(=
Hahahaha
Fucking gold.
you can tell he's an ignorant left wing wingnut.
@@vegaswould yep as soon as I heard nationalism. He's a leftist
Same, the narrator's definitely a lefty
1.- A harsh society, divided by design. Rebellion becomes inevitable. 2:55
2.- A militaristic society where quality military hardware is scarce, and military tactics and strategy are severely lacking. 12:06
3.- A society utterly devoted to war, whit a dysfunctional military administration, puts their civilisation at great risk. 20:58
Man and women in the same shower sounds like a great future.
Male and female Romans had shower together.
In my NCO class, we agreed that we were adults and used the same room to change into our PT gear; until the guy assigned to guard duty decided to make it creepy and chill while the girls were changing. A-hole ruined a good thing.
I hope you remember you will see unattractive women in the shower if your dream comes to pass. Even if everyone is a fit, well trained soldier, ugly people would still exist
@deenr qqwe is that supposed to deter me? You see ugly people at a nude beach too. Doesn't stop people from going.
@99legion
Allowing women in the military is fine, as long as they're required to pass the same test to get the same job. The problem is that many countries' militaries give female recruits easier fitness tests, which means they aren't able to keep up in real combat.
The original novel is a wonderful masterpiece, the movie (meant to be a sort of parody) was actually really wonderful.
How was the original a masterpiece
@@cm9241 It is a masterpiece of facist propaganda written by a man who was very proud the US won World War II and very sad the NAZI’s lost.
@History Eraser Button one thing that can be said for Starship Troopers is that it is much better written than Mien Kampf
@@davidwright7193 really ironic that the movie was the opposite of that. I liked it more than the novel.
Parody is a strong word considering the director didn't actually read the book.
"This is a live-fire exercise! I expect extreme caution on my assault course!" *Random people walking on all sides of the course.* I guess that means the people who miss are also missing those random extras as well...
Book version, the live fire was from the drill sergeants, who were not aiming for their fellow drills.
Even the astra militarium knows that if you cant beat the bugs just nuke them
Remember guys military grade means the lowest cost for the function needed. Now apply that thinking to a whole society and you get the UCF
except a lot of militay hardware is not really lowest cost - its exactly as much as it needs to cost - thats not really the same thing.
Not sure about lowest cost, more of lowest quality some supplier managed to sell. The price is probably not the lowest or even reasonable.
Please put a comma before and after "guys".
Military grade means neither lowest quality nor lowest cost.
@@xBINARYGODxnope. US and NATO tend to be filled with ballooned price tags m8
Funny, hearing you describe it makes it sound like society now... all we need is giant bugs and we can all start showering together
No the Federation is a lot better than modern society their media is honest, their government officials own up to their mistakes, they protect their borders, they don't infringe on your rights to be left the fuck alone, their education system doesn't indoctrinate the youth
@@michaelkeha Protect their borders from who? Who is the enemy that's invading? Sounds like racist dog whistle to blame economic issues on the "other".
Exactly what a cowardly civilian would say.
29:00 "It was a sleeper agent all along" Was this actually confirmed? It seems equally possible the brain bug's capture was legitimate and corrupting the Sky Marshal was simply improvisation and opportunity.
With all that being said, the first is still a great film.
I doubt it was ever implied that the movie was bad.
It's atrocious.
At least the animated sequels have power armor.
To be frank, the Starship Troopers' form of government reminds me of nothing more than ancient Rome. While it was not a requirement to be a veteran to vote, all public offices required at least 10 years of military service. During the Republic era, this prevented the rise of a leisure/political class. So, the concept isn't as out there as it might first seem.
Also, since people can choose to become a citizen through military or civil service, I don't think it will have nearly the destabilizing effect that you are thinking it will. A dual class system causes problems mostly due to the underclass wanting rights that they cannot get. Here, there is relatively easy social mobility, which would stop it from being a culture breaker.
Very similar because you could earn your citizenship as a member of the Auxilia, albeit it required 25 years of hard military service, but once a citizen it was not just you, but your line as well. You can certainly see the connection to the Federation Military.
@conan263 Marus Licinius Crassus would like a word with you about capitalism during the late Republic. He'd like you to have a seat on his solid gold sofa while you wait, and put your feet up on the ivory table. Don't bother to wipe your boots, though, it's not like he can't afford to replace it.
One of the few people who understand history and can see the obvious similarities between the Terran Federation and Republican Rome. This very type of government is what raised Rome from a city state to an empire, and of course the deviation from civic service and responsibility due to the results of empire is what caused it to decline and fall. Nothing at all to do with Facism, mainly repeated by people who read reviews from other people who actually either never read the book or did and didn't understand it or history.
@conan263 Someone evidently doesn't really know what capitalism is.
I'm not particularly fond of capitalism, but it helps to at least know the stuff you'd find in an economics 101 textbook...
And look what happened to the Roman Republic. In the book they talk about the system like it is perfect, that it cannot possibly fail and say its all thanks to the military veterans who seized control and established the system. All the while seeming to ignore signs that suggest things are not as wonderful as they make it out. They say their justice system is perfect because it teaches people to obey the law, except they find it necessary to execute criminals. Are these people just poor students? Or perhaps you are just aren't good teachers...
The failure of the invasion in the book also raises questions about their education. The attack failed because ships came out of hyperspace too close and crashed into each other. Are you so focused on 'history and moral philosophy' that you don't bother to teach mathematics and physics? Your so worried about teaching recruits how to be proper citizens that you never taught them how to fly the spaceship?
I actually new a guy who got fined for "defacing government property" for a tattoo his supiriors where displeased of.
Bullshit
No you didn't. You can absolutely get punished for showing up with a new tattoo that doesn't adhere to Dress and Appearance standards, but it wouldn't be for defacing government property. Soldiers, sailors and airmen are not government property and nothing in the UCMJ says they are. Either your friend is full of shit, or you are.
I saw his documentation, a friend of my father's, this was in Germany in 1961.
Watch who you call full of shit! I didn't say it was legal, I said it happened. But I guess everything that happens in the military is legal, right?
Haven't seen the guy in 20 some odd years, but I think it was something like 8 bucks a month far a year or so.
@@brendanmontague2143 This is a commonly repeated old wives tale. If the military generated paperwork for it, then yeah, it was definitely legal. I am not saying they didn't get fined, I am saying it wasn't for "Defacing Government Property".
Entertaining video. After the last few years I'd be hesitant to call any of this "too stupid to really exist" though!
You should look at Wakanda from Black Panther (2017). I heard that it has so many problems as being a practical example of an advanced ancient civilization, especially one controlled by humans.
The infantry here is basically just like the Warhammer 40k Imperial Guard. "THE TITAN IS COMING! Get me my bayonet!"
No the guard have access and use artillery, tanks, air support, orbital bombardment and actual fucking tactics. anyone charging a titan with a bayonet is ether bait/a distraction for these other forces to use to kill said titan/evacuate or its a last stand and they're already dead. A Guardsmen die but any commander worthy of the position doesnt waste their lives needlessly. Side note: Penal legions are not really guardsmen and thus can be used in such pants on head retarded ways, at least in the eyes of the imperium.
@@Fallout10mm ... It is a MEME my friend.
r/whoosh
@@_Ekaros The shockwaves caused by the Titan's steps would make most Guards puke their own lungs out of pressure...and then you got to deal with the Void Shield...so no.
There is a reason why the Emperor conquered everything in his path, but when he got to Mars he went all "OK, so, let's talk this out"
Literally lost everything when I heard "Dougie Himmler"
Then I heard "Heinrich Hauser"
I loved that line too!
Yeah, this whole video is retarded, but "Doogie himler" made me spit my coke into my moniter.
I thought it was "Heinrich "Dic" Hauser"
When a “dumb bug hoard” manages to accurately target asteroids and then launch them at a distant planet at enough speed to bypass physics with a slow moving projectile
And you barely train your troops in how to fight your main enemy
do you think that they made the shots of humans swarming in a similar fashion to the bugs on accident? They clearly wanted you to know that the federation is not very smart/this is not a realistic story.
As a retiree, somethings about their weapons, armor, and tactics what you said are true. They are all designed around stopping civil disputes. The U.S. military trained for jungle warfare for years. Then fighting against the Russians in open field combat. Not until 9/11 tactics changed to urban combat. Same with our weapons. We still used a M2 machine gun. A variant of the m16, the M4. We had flak jackets that were very well known to be useless.
So yeah. I agree they were very unprepared, but they didn't expect anything but dumb uncoordinated things walking around due to the random conflicts. So basically Vietnam of the first year.
EDIT: Terrible grammar I suppose??
Jason Leon the tactics were bad for sure I would have preferred to bombard the planet with millions of large meteors before any ground troops are even sent to the area.
well klandathu was a desert, so more or less Afghanistan.
Jason Leon, just so we are both on the same page about the M2 it is not a variant of the M16 but a .50 cal heavy machine gun. The M4 is a variant of the M16 but pretty much the same thing with a short barrel and a collapsible stock.
First thing that damn Sky Marshal should know is bug can accurately fire meteor from their planet that nearly million light year away with precision in human life time. That mean meteor travel faster than light before came to solar orbit (you seen it slow down to anti-meteor missile can shoot down). No thing in this damn universe can do this if they don't have futuristic knowledge like FTL deep space travel. That mean this specie bug is not dumb it just look dumb.
@@streetfighterguy1909 If I meant a m16 is a variant of the M2 I would use a coma, not a period. Though I will agree that it does look that way. I need to fix it.
I've seen this film and read the novel multiple times. The deviations from the source material were deliberate on Paul Verhoeven's part. Originally the film had nothing to do with the novel, but when Verhoeven found out it was going to be licensed, he decided to subvert what he felt were the militaristic and proto-fascist readings of the novel (whether or not Heinlein intended them). Hence the film came out swinging with an anti-war, anti-authoritarian message; the corruption, incompetence, and sheer stupidity of the UCF were by design. Just like how Robocop was about police corruption of the 1980s, the Starship Troopers film was based on the buildup in the late 1990s that led to the War on Terror, which was launched just 4 years after the film's release. Like Orwell's "1984" it was intended as a cautionary tale about militarism and imperialism. It's one of those films I still go back and watch today.
Verhoeven is on record as never reading the book. I don't have the link on me, but I can probably find it if you like.
Movie is still GREAT for its own reasons in my opinion.
It's all of the above. Orwell's writings are frequently described as such based on his experiences in India and the Spanish Civil War, as well as how he identified politically. This does not invalidate your other point, which I agree with.
londonhuawiki.wpi.edu/index.php/The_Influences_of_George_Orwell%27s_1984
@@EksaStelmere I found the quote you're referring to.
"I stopped after two chapters because it was so boring. It is really quite a bad book. I asked Ed Neumeier to tell me the story because I just couldn't read the thing. It's a very right-wing book. And with the movie we tried, and I think at least partially succeeded, in commenting on that at the same time. It would be eat your cake and have it. All the way through we were fighting with the fascism, the ultra-militarism. All the way through I wanted the audience to be asking, 'Are these people crazy?'"
www.empireonline.com/movies/features/paul-verhoeven/
The same article also points out how Heinlein had written the book to espouse the virtues of military service, in response to criticisms of the US nuclear testing program. So Verhoeven was probably not that far off base.
@@FrozEnbyWolf150 That's the one. Fairly sad thing for him to say since Heinlein was a liberal. Back when that word meant something at least.
Long ago, I read the book before I saw the movie and the movie fighting confused the hell out of me. The infantry in the book were all in powered armor that was dropped individually like paratroopers from orbit. They had jump jets in their boots and carried missile launchers, bombs, and flame throwers. I remember the book saying that guns had been discarded because most ammo was spent making the other guy duck instead of shooting at you. So when I saw the movie it seemed obvious that they barely read the book. I think a lot of problems with this civilization was that it was represented in bad movies.
So blizzard copied exactly from this book for Starcraft. Bug enemies power armor psi op
The director freely admitted that he never bothered to read it. He made it quite clear he had zero interest in the movie other than as a paycheck.
Did the book ever talk why didn't they just orbit bomb the bugs? Or even just carpet fire bomb them?
They lived deep underground. Deep enough to survive the impact apparently.
I think the movie was more "inspired by" than adapted from the books. The two are barely related, but I think the movie stands on its own.
THESE VULCAN CUT-INS GIVE ME LIFE! I LUV THIS CHANNEL!
Read the book. The Federation is much less idiotic in the source material.
Fact doesn’t change that this is actually an amazing movie and has to be my favourite
"Dougie Himmler" roflmao.
@Deathcoldan It's a shortened nickname of "Douglas".
@@franohmsford7548 Thank you. I never watched that show, and always wondered where "Doogie" came from.