I was surprised to find this video recommended in my feed today. Now I know why -- this pinned comment. Glad to have watched it again. A splendid work.
I'd like to see a comparison of the changes between the 1988 OVA, the 1997 movie, and the 1999 CGI tv series to compare how faithful they all are to the book and how well they stand up to each other on their own. Or maybe a review of the movie Atragon (1963) and its political subtext regarding nationalism.
Did this video disapear for a while? Ive tried to find and rewatch but nil. All i could find was other reactions to your video. As u can imagine they mostly consisted of soylent green is delicious for your fellow comrade.
Guess I'll do my annual rewatch party now, though I'm sure in a few months the communists will find some other insect horror to self-identify with that will bring me back here.
I tried to explain this videos core argument to a friend a few days ago - it absolutely melted his brain. He had exactly backwards opinion on all of it. He simply could not understand that the original material was anti-fascist.
@@vancodling4223 its definitely because his brain was too small and not because the argument is fundamentally ill-conceived and founded on misunderstandings of Machiavellian political realism. I encourage you to read the book yourself in spite of how dry it is, given that Sargon definitely didn't.
Anyone with eyes to see could see the direction society has been falling for a long time. Its likely a civil/social-war/purge followed by the institution of a Heinlein model republic is the only chance to save Liberty and human dignity in the long run.
@stuka80 actually it was because Helldivers 2 restarted and endless debate about how to classify the fiction government of Starship Troopers. But you are also correct.
@@Bankrotas honestly, the Japanese animated Starship Troopers movies are light-years ahead of Verhoevens failed attempt at parodying something he knew nothing about.
I think PewDiePie got it right. Verhoven misunderstood the book by thinking it was fascist but ended up creating a society that wasn’t fascist other than obvious german aesthetics, and then general audiences misunderstood the movie as Verhoven making fascism look good. When the whole thing was simply Heinleins belief that citizenship is more than just a birthright, it’s a responsibility that is earned.
53:13 This is incorrect. The Terran Federation DOES hold the belief "that all life is a communal Darwinian struggle for primacy between district cultural or racial groups", it merely exchanges human "races" for the species of the galaxy, and the TF is more than willing to exterminate the bugs of Kledathu under the justification that if both races seek to expand, one must win out over the other. This is the same ideology as Nazism. You can't pretend the book doesn't defend the metaphor of fascism. It does. Claiming the humans are not the aggressor is also bunk, as the conflict with the other alien race the "Skinnies" shows that humans are oppressive and brutal to a race they have already essentially beaten, and it is heavily implied in the book that the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires could not possibly have been launched by Klendathu, as it would have taken millennia to travel the required distance. It was a false flag by the government to justify the war. The difference in moral philosophy can be highlighted by comparing it to Orson Scott Card's book Ender's Game. Where the entire plot is essentially the same, except that the author and main character decry the outcome as evil and unwarranted because of a misunderstanding and regret their actions, while in starship troopers, the war continues and the main character sees nothing wrong with exterminating alien
@@contentiouscritic You had to make several paragraphs just to explain the "Survival of the fittest". That's not even political, it's simple darwinian science. Just because they say it in a different way doesn't make it any less true. Everything we have is only because our ancestors fought for it and eventually created the means to sustain our co-existence; i.e. wealth. The Terran Federation are not fascists, the'yre realists.
@@kylevernon to embrace the philosophy that your race is superior and that survival of your race justifies the extermination of others is fascism. You are foolish to think otherwise. The greatest moral traditions of humanity call you to abandon racial or familial ties in favor of a morality that applies to all sentient minds and beings.
@@kylevernon my point about the false flag is that the bugs didn’t actually NECESSARILY represent an existential threat to mankind. They never actually attacked earth directly. That was invented to justify genocide.
The movie really does not do the mobile infantry justice. The amount of destruction an infantryman is capable of would make a space marine from WH40K blush.
Whoever did the voice over parts is pure cancer. I can't stand his fake Kraut and Tea-esque accent. Why the fuck is he rolling his R's? I literally couldn't make it past maybe the third voice over part. His stupid fake accent gives me cancer on my cancer.
@@bashpr0mpt719 Arch Warhammer? It's just how he talks. It's probably because he's a Norwegian (or Swede --- I don't know) who learned English from Brits. I can't imagine him not sounding pretentious with that background.
Has it really been 5 years? Wow. This has aged phenomenally well. I refer to it regularly when arguing with people about Starship Troopers and Fascism in general.
'Heinlein's Philosophy' But he left out the body painting, and the gender/body-swapping. Also, the bit where you should marry the girl you knew ever since she was little, as soon as you travel into the future and she is legal now,
Until such time as any treaty or mutually accepted boundaries of said space, neither party has responsibility to respect the lives of the other. If cows could fight back or were even capable of appeals for mercy, they wouldn't be food.
The culture shown in the film was truly equal. No racism. No sexism. Men and women actually liked each other. there was obvious prosperity and happiness. Even worse, merit is rewarded and cheered on by others. I can see why the modern socialist crowd were having night terrors over the film.
Imagine a society with so little fear of sexual assault, that in the MILITARY no less, men and women shower in the same room. Sleep in the same room, Dress in the same room.
as a russian kid watching this film in 90s I thought there was nothing wrong with it. I thought - "oh nice, so this is the american freedom of choice, no one is conscripted to army like in my own country".
Alex Bush CHOICE is the key difference Starship Troopers fans & Veterans!🕷I re-did the audiobook 📚 w sound 🔊 💥 effects and voice acting! 🎤 8 hrs. Please 🙏🏼listen 👂 and SHARE!!! FB page “Starship Troopers the book” th-cam.com/video/zwFMszIVGko/w-d-xo.html
1:09:46 I cant quite remember, but I think the movie "Enders game" (cant speak on behalf of the book) actually went a bit into this, how the alien bugs/swarms of that movie apparently were genuinely horrified when they found out that every single human being is an individual, not a hivemind. essentially they just thought they were just killing a few "drones" of humanity, the equivalent of a bit of a scuff/bruises for them, only to find out that killing even a single person is essentially the equivalent of killing an entire HIVE for them. Its an interesting concept, entities that have such a fundamentally different nature to us as humans, that comminications/understanding is either ludicrously difficult, or even impossible.
This is a retcon added in one of the book’s sequels and backported to the movie. Originally they didn’t think humans were intelligent, something so moronic it absolutely demanded a retcon, so in the sequels it got one and the interpretation you mention exists. Which I do agree is very interesting and quite plausible.
@ndelozier7156Starship troopers or Ender's Game? Because I don't remember that being a thing for the former but the latter definitely had it. The retcon wasn't that they realized they screwed up right as the war was ending, it's that their reason for fucking up was changed to be more believable, since no advanced species could plausibly look at modern day earth and assume humans weren't intelligent. I think it was added into later prints of the book too so you might've read one of those.
Yep, the formics are actually sympathetic since the queens are actually sapient and conscious. The arachnids are not. They are not conscious, they act mostly on instinct. Even the brain bugs are not sapient in the same way you and I are. That’s the huge difference. Formics were a highly advanced and sapient alien species, the arachnids are essentially alien animals.
It is what i would consider required reading for highschool students. History and Moral philosophy is exactly the sort of thing schools are missing. Bloody lessons learned from history, like the inevitable rise of slavery in any human colony and the various guises under which it operated in the last two centuries. Indentured servitude to sweatshops and beyond.
It's also the only science fiction novel on the West Point Required Reading List. Verhoeven completely twisted the novel and the Average American doesn't even know it because they don't know how to read and process a book.
I read this book in middle school (70's) and it formed the basis of much of my political beliefs I still hold today. I hate this movie with a burning passion.
Humans: *Establish a Peaceful Colony* Bugs: *Butcher Colonists like Animals* *Wipe out Civilian Population Center* Humans: *Attack Bugs* Movie Critics: "Is this Fascism?"
And to top it off, the colony was illegal specifically because it was in bug territory. The Federation wrote them off and wasn't going to retaliate for that very reason, viewing it as the bugs' right to defend their territory and the colonists' own fault for violating it. Then, the bugs launched more attacks and the Federation had to fight back.
@@Man_of_TomorrowI agree it’s quite like Israel. Except the thing you’re probably not thinking of is you quite literally are what the film is criticizing. You are unironically doing the “only good bug is a dead bug” about real people.
He didn't 'have a writer do it', Ed Neumeier, who was a fan of the novel wrote it. Paul Verhoven not reading it is irrelevant as the script didn't follow the book very closely anyway. As a fan of both the movie and the book, anyone who has read the book and think it would make a great commercial movie (commercial being the only way it'd get a budget anywhere near required) cover to cover is an idiot. While there are some things in the book I would love to see played out in live action, most of the book reads like a philosophy textbook.
@@Man_of_Tomorrow Dan Judex, the OP, did not comment on the script nor the story but on Paul Verhoven having loud unfounded opinions while acknowledging his ignorance by way of laziness. You're having a different conversation, completely "irrelevent" you could say.
@@Man_of_Tomorrow Nowhere did the OP say anything about the script. He was referring to Verhoven's outspoken and wildly incorrect opinion on the book without ever having actually reading it.
53:13 This is incorrect. The Terran Federation DOES hold the belief "that all life is a communal Darwinian struggle for primacy between district cultural or racial groups", it merely exchanges human "races" for the species of the galaxy, and the TF is more than willing to exterminate the bugs of Kledathu under the justification that if both races seek to expand, one must win out over the other. This is the same ideology as Nazism. You can't pretend the book doesn't defend the metaphor of fascism. It does. Claiming the humans are not the aggressor is also bunk, as the conflict with the other alien race the "Skinnies" shows that humans are oppressive and brutal to a race they have already essentially beaten, and it is heavily implied in the book that the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires could not possibly have been launched by Klendathu, as it would have taken millennia to travel the required distance. It was a false flag by the government to justify the war. The difference in moral philosophy can be highlighted by comparing it to Orson Scott Card's book Ender's Game. Where the entire plot is essentially the same, except that the author and main character decry the outcome as evil and unwarranted because of a misunderstanding and regret their actions, while in starship troopers, the war continues and the main character sees nothing wrong with exterminating alien
Super Earth is a lot different then the Earth Federation. The defense of the Earth Federation doesn't really apply to Super Earth, hell their 'elections' are done by Google style AI algorithms! lol
Sargon the 29th of October is #BlackMonday the Farmers of South Africa and their Supporters world wide are holding a protest. Contact me if you need information if you want to make a video on that.
Eh, the book isn't _specifically_ anti-Communist. It does the cranky author thing of complaining about every other society that came before the one it depicts, which of course is the correct form of society. It pretty much says that liberal democracies were a failed experiment (who's laughing now, huh?). Unlike EG Star Trek or The Culture, which were elegant enough to leave the reasons why their societies are so utopian as vague generalities, Starship Troopers just halts the narration to talk at you about them in very precise political terms, which are generally expected to be convincing. Now I actually have some respect for the honesty of just coming out and saying it out loud, and to its credit the book is somewhat decent at avoiding the common pitfall of completely torpedoing its narrative in favor of delivering pol-sci lessons - although not always. However, it does come off as very inelegant, especially with the hindsight of the modern age.
Heinlein wrote the bug to be a blatant comparison to communism and is critical of communism through the criticism of the bugs in the book. It's very anti-communist.
@@Blaze6108 I would say Heinlein is laughing, since most western democracies have devolved into oligarchies that don't actually care about their citizens, or peasants.
The Politics of Starship Troopers 00:00 Why are my favorite culture channels in love with Fascism? 02:14 Moral Idealism and Political Realism 3:47 Who was Robert Heinlein? 08:09 The Starship Troopers Universe 10:58 Violence 25:28 The Mobile Infantry 32:19 What is fascism? 35:46 The differences between Heinlein and Fascism 43:08 The similarities between Heinlein and Fascism 46:58 Is Starship Troopers a fascist book? 49:56 Is Starship Troopers a fascist movie? 53:54 Honest Propaganda 58:16 The Terran Federation did nothing wrong 1:03:16 You Want This, Unironically 1:12:25 Conclusion 1:18:16
I just realised something that I never realised before until watching this video, during Rasczak's classroom oration while Rico and Carmen are flirting, with Carmen frustrating his efforts, Diz is shown attempting to see what Rico is doing on his computer screen, right as Rasczak states "Something given has no value," the camera shows Rico and Diz. It seems like this is relevant to the relationship between the three characters, Diz is infatuated with Rico and as a result, she is less valuable to him as a romantic interest, while, similarly, Rico is infatuated with Carmen, which leads to Carmen resisting his advances in the long-term, and eventually going on to serve on a starship assignment, where she ends up in a relationship with Zander, who does not share the same intensity of infatuation that Rico had for Carmen, yet nevertheless he turns out to be more valuable to her as a romantic interest. You could just say that it was a long-distance/at war issue, and maybe that played a part, but I feel that Carmen did not seem very committed to the relationship to begin with, and was willing to let go and move on. Later in the film, you could say Diz earns Rico's love by following him wherever he went and being his comrade in battle, ultimately confessing that she always loved him since high school. The cherry on top of all of this is that, when Diz is dying to the wound inflicted by the Arachnid Warrior, is when Rico truly and passionately shows his love and sorrow for Diz, as she dies, soon to be unavailable forever. tl;dr Something given has no value.
Some things can only ever be given. Physically most men have the capability to take whatever women they want. That they make a moral choice against this does not obviate the animal reality. But love? Force cannot take that. And when someone is in an exquisitely vulnerable place, compassion given can have profound value. But this compassion does not slay personal responsibility. If it is wise compassion it demands it. For ultimately no change is sustainable without such. The either or dynamic presented is incredibly limited in the understanding and experience of what it means to be a human being.
Disregard Childish wants. Turn that need you've projected outwards into nurturing your own sense of self, your own development. Don't let yourself be Simping, lads and lasses.
Diz may not have been as physically attractive to Rico (give her a break, she had to go up against Denise Richards), demonstrating her competency and ability to care for Rico, elevated her status. Rico, being a typical man, was initially drawn to physical beauty.
I literally listened to a video game review on Spotify maybe a year ago that was making this exact claim. The hosts were saying that because the UNSC looked like the MI from the movie Starship Troopers, they must be the agressors, and it was obvious that the covenant were the good guys. Although they did feel the covenant were a tad problematic because their religion shared some similarity with Christianity.
The important part of the book, and one which I have personally experienced, is the part where Rico gets over "the hump." What is "the hump"? I experienced it about halfway through basic training in the Army. I was training during a hot and humid summer in the state of Alabama, a place as foreign to me as Mars. I was training with people from all races and places, some were citizens of other countries. We were under "total control" for our training period, without any freedom whatsoever. To me, a lazy young man who had been free to come and go, and do what I wanted for all of my young life, total hell. I wanted to quit, and quitting was indeed possible, easy in fact. I couldn't sleep for the stress, I hated everything about the Army, and I kicked myself for being so stupid as to enlist. But on a particularly hard day of training, which involved a long road march, a day on the obstacle course, and a largescale assault on my person by hundreds of fire ants, a strange thing happened. We were marching back in the early evening, the sun was sinking, our Drill Sergeant, a tough black man who took no nonsense was marching us to the mess hall for dinner. We sang cadence songs as we marched, and for no real reason, we started singing louder and louder, until our voices were thundering. At that moment, something inside my head clicked, and my entire outlook changed, I "saw the light." I realized that however hard the work was, however high the stress level was, I could handle it. I think of that time as the moment I became a man, and I am thankful for it. Perhaps I would have one day grown up without having to put myself through hell, but I doubt it. From that day I could see more, and my sense of judgment improved. Basic training was scarcely a down payment for the kind of training I would eventually endure, but I found myself able to handle it.
That's something i could only dream of. I'm pretty sure you - in the words of Jordan Peterson - transcended the suffering of human life in that very moment and found your peace in it. I wonder if JP had a moment similiar to this as well?...
Dude somebody find the writer and shake his hand, he’s a hero! He probably knew what kind of movie the director wanted to make, and was still able to write something with enough pro constitution/citizenship undertones that it slipped past the dummy. Legendary!
The director literally just took the script and directed it. The only input he had was in the aesthetics as evidence by the film itself. He never read the book.
@@Ojthemighty He read only about 2 chapters of it, but he got lazy (probably due to being a soshalist) and he just desperately wanted to create anti-freedom propaganda.
@@DesertStateNevada socialshit. Ive coined it, let it be so. But yes you are correct. Hes so lazy he didnt even watch his own movie to make sure it was fascist
Although this video is great, the Magnum Opus must be the video on how Britain ended the international slave trade, because it covers criminally under-taught history, rather than criminally abused literature.
>Bugs bomb a city killing 10 million >Bugs continue to send asteroids at Earth attempting to kill more >Humans fight back >Humans declared the aggressors.
I thought the implication was that the humans staged the attack on their own city to help fuel their military expansion and give them an alibi for invading Klendathu
Ammoniumbicarbonat: I never got that impression, I mean the physics of it are a tad off due to how space works but we see in Rico's call with his parents that it did happen. There really are no signs in the film that they have expansionist goals as if they did they likely would have invaded the Arachnid territory ages ago given how it has several worlds that humans can live on with no terraforming required.
The Sap Rises From Our Roots: Um no the Arachnids are one species with different castes of bug. A few humans ignored the Federation quarantine zone and were massacred but since the Federation did not even think of retaliating because they had entered bug territory of their own free will. It was only when the bugs attacked Terra and killed millions of innocent civilians that the Federation declared war. We are shown no other signs that humans were intruding on their space in the film and the fact that the Federation labeled it a Quarantine Zone implies that the official government stance was to avoid that area of space.
I have to say I was wrong about you. I thought along with a lot of people that your retreat from topical content was an admission of failure after all the drama. This was absolutely a cut above anything you've done before and I'll take responsibility and admit I misjudged you Sargon. You still did some silly-ass nonsense, but focusing on the content you have a passion for was absolutely the right move and it shows in the quality of this video. Well done.
Yeah, I kind of liken it to grinding against a 300meter thick wall with sandpaper.....It is addicting at first but now I know when to say something and when to shake my head and walk away because any attempt to educate in the specific scenario would be futile.
I just got banned from the Starship Troopers extermination discord for posting this video, why? Spreading a fascist apology video. These people made the video game btw its not some unofficial fan discord.
Verhoeven: The movie wasn't about the book...... So there is that...... Only reason the movie is called Starshiptroopers and licensed to the book is, because nobody was gonna fund the "lets mix up Nazi and American propaganda styles to make cautionary satire about the dangers of brainwashing, militarism, groupthink and propaganda". Specially in USA where it was to be produced. Heck the original idea was "Blue eyed white Americans in sign up for military and get brainwashed. Problem is it was the nazi military, but the propaganda they get looks really really lot like USA military news reels". Nobody would have greenlit that..... So lets make it sci-fi, we have made sci-fi and one can get away with more controversial stuff in sci-fi cladding. "Bug war in outputs nine" or something like that was the original title. Hey there is famous scifi book about something like infantry fighting grunts in aliens planets killing aliens..... If one licenses famous franchise name, it makes studios happy. So Starshiptroopers it is. The reason the movie and book don't match, is because they aren't supposed to match. Verhoeven did crazy amounts of research into military training films, propaganda etc, because that is what the movie is about. He didn't read the book, because the movie was never about it. The screenwriter Ed Neumeier just cheaply copied places names, persons names etc. from the book on top of an existing script. Because Heinlein Sci-fi sells well as a brand...... So it was easier to get production funding.
@@meinleiben2043 I was going to say exactly this. He goes on about how Fascism has all of these faults the movie doesn't have, which isn't what the movie is about at all. It's not meant as a serious study on fascism. He makes some good points but also seems to completely miss the overall point that it's meant to be a propaganda film entirely. It's ultimately about how the sacrifice is worth it for the greater cause. Hence why Carl sent his own best friends squad into what was basically a suicide mission. The movie is purely propaganda for this fictional war. Verhoven does what he does, and he does it well. It's a fun, wild movie. I say this as a huge fan of the book as well. There seems to be a lot of people who are deeply offended that a fictional society that will never exist is incorrectly labelled 'fascist', and how dare Verhoven make light of it! Why didn't they make the movie a 4 hour adaptation of a novel that has about 2 dramatic scenes? I mean the book is great, but its a textbook, not much in the way of characters or plot.
@@Man_of_Tomorrow no one is asking for this mega adaptation as a blockbuster action film. Anyone who has read the book knows that it’s a page turner because it makes you think, not because of how cool the fight scenes are.
I was an extra in Starship Troopers. Got to meet Michael Ironside, even played pool with him in the big rec tent they had. Was a great experience. Thanks for this vid
One thing that everyone seems to forget, or ignore, about the novel, is that the Federation actually does everything it can to diacourage Military service. Yet almost everyone seems to insist that Starship Troopers is some Militaristic Fascist manifesto. Blows my mind how people like to twist that.
Tbh I was surprised by how little action was contained in the book. It really felt like an excuse for Heinlein to espouse his political views, as Sargon said. There were a couple moments in the book that shook me, but probably the biggest one is when Frankel and Zim both do not address Zim's black eye that he received for striking Ted Hendrick during a freeze drill, and are only forced to when Hendrick openly admits to doing it. Zim was fairly brutal and distant from all his recruits, but when Rico is serving as an orderly for Frankel, he overhears Zim being tongue lashed, which he agrees with, for allowing Hendrick to hit him and that the entire incident was Zim's fault, yet Hendrick must pay the heavy price. The explanation Zim gives is that he underestimated Hendrick because he likes him, which is never displayed. Frankel scolds Zim, stating that he can not afford to either like or dislike any recruit. Johnny only hears this via eavesdropping through a wall and is shocked, and was one of the major events that led to his continued service in the MI.
53:13 This is incorrect. The Terran Federation DOES hold the belief "that all life is a communal Darwinian struggle for primacy between district cultural or racial groups", it merely exchanges human "races" for the species of the galaxy, and the TF is more than willing to exterminate the bugs of Kledathu under the justification that if both races seek to expand, one must win out over the other. This is the same ideology as Nazism. You can't pretend the book doesn't defend the metaphor of fascism. It does. Claiming the humans are not the aggressor is also bunk, as the conflict with the other alien race the "Skinnies" shows that humans are oppressive and brutal to a race they have already essentially beaten, and it is heavily implied in the book that the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires could not possibly have been launched by Klendathu, as it would have taken millennia to travel the required distance. It was a false flag by the government to justify the war. The difference in moral philosophy can be highlighted by comparing it to Orson Scott Card's book Ender's Game. Where the entire plot is essentially the same, except that the author and main character decry the outcome as evil and unwarranted because of a misunderstanding and regret their actions, while in starship troopers, the war continues and the main character sees nothing wrong with exterminating alien
@@contentiouscritic RE: ". . . and it is heavily implied in the book that the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires . . ." It was not even "implied" in the book that it was an asteroid that destroyed Buenos Aires. It was an interstellar missile with an H-bomb warhead, the same as with the Bug attack that "smeared our research station on Pluto." RE: ". . . as it would have taken millennia to travel the required distance. " Why would that be? In the book, the Bugs (and the Skinnies) have starships with their own version of a faster-than-light (FTL) drive.
I Joined the Marines as well brother, I did it because I felt I had to defend those who could not defend themselves. As a friend reminded me one day , " Marines are not the bad guys. Why is this? Because we are human shields for those who can't defend themselves".
The conscientious objector or moral pacifist only has the luxury of his high-mindedness when the threat is not yet at his door. Once it is - you'll see the proof of who he really is: a hypocrite or a coward. (With this kept in mind - just wars do exist, and you can still be skeptical of the cause. But when you resolve to stand up for something, stand up all the way.)
War is an evil like sickness is an evil. Soldiers are not evil, and the fighting of war is not evil like the resistance of they body to sickness. It is ideal that no sickness comes, but it is reality that all people must be prepared for sickness and prepare their bodies for its effects. It is ideal that no wars come, but it is reality that all people must prepare for war and prepare their minds for its effects. Until peace can be forged the enemy is met with force, War is no place for senseless cruelty or foolishness. Only brutality and efficency in the disarmament of the enemy. Wars are fought so that peace can be possible. A war with an impossible peace or a peace not sustainable is incomplete or ideotic. The morality of war's declaration is in the attainable goals, the morality of a war's prosecution is in the efficacy of the army in the attaining of the goal. Ultimately the faster the war ends, the better for all. A war can only be considered just if the goal is purposeful for the benefit of the citizenry, attainable or lacking that, imperative such as in the given example of starship troopers, and prosecuted with efficency toward the goals. Amoral wars are fought without attainable or imperative goals, without benefit to the citizenry of the soldiery, and inefficient in prosecution. This is my opinion.
Technically meritocratic, but one thing people are too PC to point out is that who it really invites. From the book: A "blind paraplegic" can be enlisted to count the hairs on a caterpillar by touch. Totally useless work, yet after two years he or she can vote. Virtually all seriously disabled people will enlist, while a lot of able folks will choose the civilian life. Then the disabled vote themselves and other disabled welfare from the public largesse. Sound familiar? To be totally un-PC, while in a "democracy" only half the people making the decisions are "below average" (as I heard a flaming liberal put it after the 2004 election), in Heinlein's idea, MOST of the people who make the decisions will end up being that.
@@TommygunNG the idea is to make it miserable enough to keep them from ever finishing their service. From the way it was explained most of the disabled attempting this are sent to test survival equipment. Which has a high mortality rate.
@@saltlife8221 Even a blind paraplegic? I do get your point. It's been too long since I read the book to know if that's actually in there. I hope Heinlein was thinking enough to put in something like that.
My man: Most people that think the Terran Federation are fasicsts do not believe that the bugs are "the good guys". Nor do they wish to side with them. The loonies that see the implication that humanity opened the conflict with these bugs as an allegory for the colonial expansionism of western Europe, and therefore believe that conflict is unjustified are mistaken at best and rasicts at worst.
@@Ounouh this is what the film was trying to get us NOT to do to other human beings. Making a comment like this means you're as low IQ as the people insinuating that the bugs are the good guys. Regardless of how one feels about the Israeli project, dehumanizing another person like this speaks volumes.
"...when Sargon the Great forced the Sumerians to cry uncle" (35:10) You gotta be kidding be,. Heinlein actually managed to get a reference to Sargon in the book.
Thanks to everyone who made this video possible. Below are some links if you'd like to want to read further about all this, support me (this video is demonetised, ofc), join my Discord server, or thank Arch Warhammer for his excellent guest appearance. Sources and reading list: www.minds.com/Sargon_of_Akkad/blog/the-politics-of-starship-troopers-899788292908392448 To support me or join my Discord server: www.patreon.com/sargon Guest-starring Arch Warhammer: th-cam.com/channels/hS9wazLlTUHSTeKVG39hZw.html
The movie may or not be bad, but it provides the necessary visuals for what might have been an otherwise dry video. In these times of shrinking attention spans encouraged by bloodsports and forced drama around the clock, 8800 viewers is pretty good for a content-rich 80-minute stretch.
Watching again after 5 years, this aged like a fine whiskey. Read the book as a kid, one of the first books I've read along with Ender's Game and the Hobbit, didn't like the movie as much due to the massive discrepancies when I first saw it, but it grew on me, and the positive message in a movie that was made to carry a negative message is just hilarious and satisfying.
Watching this post COVID hits different. Heinlein was prescient with his analysis of “science” and scientists not being necessarily virtuous by themselves, and yet they are still held up as infallible by those who don’t want the accountability of thinking critically.
Now you need to do "Politics of 40k" video with Sargon on your channel. The political system of the Imperium and why it exists, is.... fascinatingly unique.
Once the Brain bug absorbed the memories of the Mormon colonists, they would have known that the Federation had nothing to do with the colony and is actually avoiding confrontation with them. This means that they knew exactly what they were doing when they flung that asteroid at earth: picking a fight with a non-aggressor. In order to claim the bugs did nothing wrong, you have to underestimate their intelligence, which is Racism of Low Expectations.
Are we sure the bugs ACTUALLY sent the meteor? I interpreted there "attack" as a false flag to rally earths society to band together and fight a common enemy and justify invasion. By the way, I love this movie and I love that it can be viewed from so many angles and still be an awesome movie.
@Bill Whittaker this concept is explored in "enders game". The bugs attacked us as a form of communication. There are only a few "brain bugs" in a hive so having a small skirmish with their drones was just another way of saying hello. It's possible the same could be true in the Starship troopers film.
The thing that never sat right with me the the "fascism" of the movie was how well-off everyone seemed to be. In a socialist state in which everything was within the state, the civilians shouldn't have that much wealth. So I guess the explanation is that it was actually libertarianism with fascist imagery, and that's why everyone was so wealthy.
The idea that Verhooven stumbled backwards into a movie this good, is literally astounding. I'm a huge fan of his work, especially Robocop and Total Recall, so it isn't surprising that he can make a great movie, but that this movie managed to be a fairly effective translation of Heinlein's thesis in spite of Verhooven's professed complete misunderstanding thereof is one of the great ironies in all of cinema. Also, anyone who thinks Heinlein was a legit fascist needs to read "Stranger in a Strange Land" and then explain to me how the same author wrote both books. Thanks for this video, it was really well made, with an obvious amount of care, effort, and thought.
@Ryan Colligan Yes, those silly directors do stumble backwards into those 100 million dollar films since 1997. Funny that Verhoeven storyboarded every scene, but couldn't be bothered to read the book.
Settlements of Bantu-speaking peoples, who were iron-using agriculturists and herdsmen, were already present south of the Limpopo River (now the northern border with Botswana and Zimbabwe) by the 4th or 5th century CE. (See Bantu expansion.) They displaced, conquered and absorbed the original Khoisanspeakers, the Khoikhoi and San peoples. The Bantu slowly moved south. The earliest ironworks in modern-day KwaZulu-Natal Province are believed to date from around 1050 That's in South Africa. You only get Golden Ages when you have a monopoly on the area usually through conquering. A quick Google search proves that.
Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker wrote in 2007, "quantitative body counts-such as the proportion of prehistoric skeletons with ax marks and embedded arrowheads or the proportion of men in a contemporary foraging tribe who die at the hands of other men-suggest that pre-state societies were far more violent than our own." According to Pinker, the 17th-century philosopher Thomas Hobbes "got it right" when he called pre-state life a "war of all against all." This was written in context of native Americans who waged war as easily as they breathed.
Rasczak’s “recruiting” philosophy is the same as The Marine Corps’ - the few, the proud. It is an open challenge to anyone who thinks they can answer. No one forces you to join, you do so because you want to prove you can be counted among those ranks of the best. Or as Ric Flair said “to be the man, Wooooooo, you have to beat the man.”
I was thinking this sounded like a pretty good way to run a state, but, thanks to you, I'm reminded how insufferable most marines are, and, I'm not so sure any more.
Pretty consistent with my experiences with them as an army grunt. They've got amazing esprit-de-corps, and generally courageous blood-thirsty bastards, in the best grunt way.
Beaches are impossible to defend; the only method to survive would be to push on regardless of casualties. It makes a lot of sense Marines would have that kind of belief.
Anyone with eyes to see could see the direction society has been falling for a long time. Its likely a civil/social-war/purge followed by the intuition of a Heinlein model republic is the only chance to save Liberty and human dignity in the long run.
But it is de facto controlled by a military junta of Starfleet admirals. The Federation assembly is just window dressing like the Senate in Imperial Rome. This becomes especially clear after watching DS9.
"Service guarantees citizenship" is a double entendre. Not only will service bestow citizenship as a reward, but citizenship as a concept and the benefits it bestows cannot be guaranteed without service
In the Novel, The Bugs actually have subordinate species. The Skinnies are a client race that turn on the bugs and assist the Federation in taking down the bugs. I enjoyed the book more than the movie, because it went further into the reasons and thoughts behind the conflict. In the end of the novel, Rico's dad actually joins the MI and would have served under his own son. It's interesting to note that Zim wanted to fight, not train other soldiers, and I would have liked to have seen a movie that was closer to the book. I think it would have been more interesting to watch. Edit: Thank you for pointing out that rights come with responsibilities. I've been saying this for 20 years.
@The Rational Rifleman Yeah, the scene where he finds out his Dad had not gone to Buenos Aires with his Mother because of some business that delayed him by a day was one of the ones I liked.
You mentioned that Heinlein was in the Navy. but not that he was an Annapolis Graduate -- the elite naval equivalent of West Point. I believe that is the equivalent of your Britannia Royal Naval College. A very serious and difficult educational experience.
@@TheAzureNightmare Annapolis, class of 1929. Assigned to Aircraft Carrier USS Lexington. Contracted TB while serving on the USS Roper (Not Curable before antibiotics) Medically retired as disabled in 1934.
Ask anyone who calls the society fascist, and that will be the only thing they'll be able to cite as proof it's fascist. Then they'll laugh at you for "not getting it" before rage quitting.
Totally agree, this is a very in depth and well researched analysis of both the book and the movie. I cannot fault it and i have been thinking about many of these concepts for years. Of course the question is, how stable is the federation politically. Regardless, its unlikely this form of government will every get a chance, the lobby groups would make sure of that.
"They break the regulations for sentimental reasons." Ricco demanded his place. He stood firm, showing a willingness to fight for his citizenship. Sentimental perhaps but also exactly the sort of person they're trying to create at boot camp.
They'd also likely be willingly held accountable for deviating from the rules, if someone saw fit to pursue it. In other words taking up the risk on his behalf. Potentially creating a rippling manly bromance effect rocking the entire federation to its knees, begging for more...
.....aaaaaaaand so begins the 50 Shades of Rico's Roughnecks fan fiction. Rico and Dizzy? Nawwww... Rico and Carmen? Nuh-uhhh, no way... But a tender young Rico and his mentor Senpai Zim? Oh shit, it's already green lit by Netflix. Medic! -_-;;
such thing often happened back in the day. during ww1, and to a lesser extent during ww2 many underage young men were allowed to volunteer for the military on the strength of their felt, if not understood convictions, because recruiting sergeants and cos looked the other way. audie murphey is one such hero.
Sargon doesn't really post on this channel anymore. It got put in the TH-cam gulag. He has a new channel that he runs with friends. It's called "Podcast of the Lotus Eaters"
Anyone with eyes to see could see the direction society has been falling for a long time. Its likely a civil/social-war/purge followed by the intuition of a Heinlein model republic is the only chance to save Liberty and human dignity in the long run.
@@imreborbas9029 I guess the fact that the writer read it is what matters, directors I think get too much credit for movies when really all they do is boss people around they aren't always the creative force behind films.
_"I would say that my position is not too far from that of Ayn Rand's; that I would like to see government reduced to no more than internal police and courts, external armed forces - with the other matters handled otherwise. I'm sick of the way government sticks its nose in everything, now."_ -- Robert A. Heinlein, 1973 interview
These days it seems as if anyone so much as an inch to the right of Mao is quickly and angrily labelled a fascist. I shouldn't be surprised, but somehow I still find that shocking. That said, I'd like to recommend Heinlein's _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress._ Good stuff in there.
That quote is a bit stupid/naive, because you need more government (actually: bureaucracy) the more people are in your country. If you have "the wild open west" you dont need a lot of government, but if you have New York and its population density you need cops, people fixing roads and "city plumbing", schools, support for ("high") arts, ... and the current trend of Google, Twitter, Facebook & Co. clearly shows that private companies NEED some "opposing force" to protect the population from their dominance and one-sidedness. The problem is NOT "the government" as a system, the problem is "the INDOCTRINATED (= one-sided/non-objective) people making up this governement". THIS is the big problem we are facing ... the UNACCOUNTABILITY of bureaucrats for shit they do ... like wasting money on "too grand stuff" that people dont want. An example is our very own "scandal airport" here in Berlin, which has taken 10+ years to build by now and has cost BILLIONS that the state of Berlin doesnt have. No bureaucrat or politician will ever be held accountable for all the stuff that went wrong with that.
More like the author of this video intentionally misguided the viewers on what fascism and nazism are, including their economic system, to try to prove the absence of fascism ideology in Starship Troopers.
@@kicunya12 wrong to the point of imbecility. The requirements of fascism and the setup for Starship Troopers are diametrically opposed to each other. Any further comparison breaks down for the simple reason fascism simply can’t tolerate voluntary action or dissent. All things must serve the state. The Terran Federation tolerates both.
The closest adaption is probably the video game, but only touches on the politics. There was also an unfinished 3D CGI tv series, again not focusing on the politics.
You're right. The video game 'Starship Troopers Terran Ascendancy' has lots of nods to the book (starship names, actual M.I. powered armour, missions to destroy Arachnid queens etc) whilst maintaining the Paul Verhoeven film's aesthetic.
I strongly encourage everyone that watched the movie to read or at least, listen, to the book….the last half of the book talks about not just responsibility but also what it means to be responsible for and in charge of people….it used to be on the required reading list for cadets at West Point and was also on the recommended reading list for NCO’s….not sure if it is anymore. I pray in my life time that the book is made into a faithful adaption, complete with the power armor and of course the raid on the skinnies that take place in the first chapter of the book
Just think how many writers, production staff and editors it would have taken for the BBC to fuck it up. Here’s one man with mates who did a 1st class job on a shoe-string budget. Sargon, you bad-ass!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -C.S. Lewis.
@@Max-nc4zn “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology) Good find and so true
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If you want to find more from me: th-cam.com/channels/7edjYPNhTm5LYJMT7UMt0Q.html
I was surprised to find this video recommended in my feed today. Now I know why -- this pinned comment.
Glad to have watched it again. A splendid work.
Sure can see it
I'd like to see a comparison of the changes between the 1988 OVA, the 1997 movie, and the 1999 CGI tv series to compare how faithful they all are to the book and how well they stand up to each other on their own. Or maybe a review of the movie Atragon (1963) and its political subtext regarding nationalism.
+@@BioGoji-zm5ph+ Glad to see someone else remembers the old CGI series, fond childhood memories for me with that one.
Did this video disapear for a while? Ive tried to find and rewatch but nil. All i could find was other reactions to your video. As u can imagine they mostly consisted of soylent green is delicious for your fellow comrade.
Everyone re-watches, no one quits.
I'm re-watching this video for the third time. You could say that: I'm doing my part!
I've been wanting to watch this again, but I couldn't find it or watch it again until now.
Im doing my part
@@TheDandyMann watching for the first time. I am doing my part.
I watch this video and his takedown of the Green Brothers Environmental Determinism almost yearly.
@@Mattical1980 what's the name of the video? I've tried looking for it and can't find it
A throwback to a time when Carl was a static 2D vtuber.
Not really, he was already long since doing in person videos iirc. I think this was just a long form content throwback in style.
THE FATHER OF PNGTUBERS!
Still remember his vid where him and a mate had created rock slings from over a decade ago.
This isn't a throwback. It's just an old video.
I miss this format, to be honest.
I'm happy for Carl getting the Lotus Eaters off the ground, but I did like his older content more.
We are so back.
I'm doing my part.
It just fucking popped again for a strange reason. I wasn't even following the drama!
Guess I'll do my annual rewatch party now, though I'm sure in a few months the communists will find some other insect horror to self-identify with that will bring me back here.
@@nerofl89Just a couple months ago, they were on about the Imperium going ham against the Tyranids
@Dont-Blink Helldivers 2 is basically an unlicensed ST game and the commies are MALDING about it
It is 2018, people are calling Starship Troopers fascist
It is 2024, people are calling Starship Troopers fascist
Kinda expect another 5-6 years to roll around for a post about people still calling ST fascist
I tried to explain this videos core argument to a friend a few days ago - it absolutely melted his brain. He had exactly backwards opinion on all of it. He simply could not understand that the original material was anti-fascist.
@@vancodling4223 its definitely because his brain was too small and not because the argument is fundamentally ill-conceived and founded on misunderstandings of Machiavellian political realism. I encourage you to read the book yourself in spite of how dry it is, given that Sargon definitely didn't.
Yeah, all the leftists saying that really do need to go to hell already.
MANY SUCH CASES!
The enemy cannot push a dislike button, if you disable his hand.
Or the button, if you're TH-cam
Underrated comment.
And here we are..
Heh. The dislike button is useless these days.
Its so funny how 3 years ago this was written and here we sit now seeing it come to fruition.
Missed opportunity to end the video with "Would you like to know more?"
indeed.
M A S S I V E O V E R S I G H T
Practically Unwatchable :)
implied. were all here afterall.
Just like the fascists asked.
Id like a follow up on Carl's views on this video 5 years on, I think its aged brilliantly, much like Starship Troopers itself
Recently on the podcast, he referred to it as "probably the best video I've ever made". And yes, this is correct.
The older i get, the more i agree with the books idea's on civic virtue/duty amd its stance toward citizenship amd voting rights.
He kind of talks about it in his hell divers video.
How weird is it that five years later, this video is incredibly relevant.
Anyone with eyes to see could see the direction society has been falling for a long time. Its likely a civil/social-war/purge followed by the institution of a Heinlein model republic is the only chance to save Liberty and human dignity in the long run.
✅️💯
@@noneofyourbusiness43 Correct
because concepts like civic virtue, duty, personal accountability are timeless.
@stuka80 actually it was because Helldivers 2 restarted and endless debate about how to classify the fiction government of Starship Troopers.
But you are also correct.
So what I'm getting from this is... Anything can sound vaguely fascist if said with enough aggressiveness.
And Humanity did nothing wrong.
It’s not aggressiveness; it’s authority and resolution.
"And Humanity did nothing wrong."
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, we still made anime...
Fascism has nothing to do with "agressiveness". What an ice cold take.
@@Bankrotas honestly, the Japanese animated Starship Troopers movies are light-years ahead of Verhoevens failed attempt at parodying something he knew nothing about.
The Tyranids did nothing wrong either.
Everyone memes. No one quits.
COME ON YOU APE YOU WANNA MEME FOREVER!?
Everyone fights, no one quits, you get me?
WE GET YOU, SIR!
Slogan of the great Kekistani Meme War.
Don't do your job and I'll dox you myself!
the MI is not an army of conscripts. anyone can quit at anytime.
I think PewDiePie got it right. Verhoven misunderstood the book by thinking it was fascist but ended up creating a society that wasn’t fascist other than obvious german aesthetics, and then general audiences misunderstood the movie as Verhoven making fascism look good. When the whole thing was simply Heinleins belief that citizenship is more than just a birthright, it’s a responsibility that is earned.
53:13 This is incorrect. The Terran Federation DOES hold the belief "that all life is a communal Darwinian struggle for primacy between district cultural or racial groups", it merely exchanges human "races" for the species of the galaxy, and the TF is more than willing to exterminate the bugs of Kledathu under the justification that if both races seek to expand, one must win out over the other. This is the same ideology as Nazism. You can't pretend the book doesn't defend the metaphor of fascism. It does. Claiming the humans are not the aggressor is also bunk, as the conflict with the other alien race the "Skinnies" shows that humans are oppressive and brutal to a race they have already essentially beaten, and it is heavily implied in the book that the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires could not possibly have been launched by Klendathu, as it would have taken millennia to travel the required distance. It was a false flag by the government to justify the war.
The difference in moral philosophy can be highlighted by comparing it to Orson Scott Card's book Ender's Game. Where the entire plot is essentially the same, except that the author and main character decry the outcome as evil and unwarranted because of a misunderstanding and regret their actions, while in starship troopers, the war continues and the main character sees nothing wrong with exterminating alien
@@contentiouscritic You had to make several paragraphs just to explain the "Survival of the fittest". That's not even political, it's simple darwinian science. Just because they say it in a different way doesn't make it any less true. Everything we have is only because our ancestors fought for it and eventually created the means to sustain our co-existence; i.e. wealth. The Terran Federation are not fascists, the'yre realists.
@@contentiouscritic Also falso flags aren't inherent to fascism. Unless you're literally going to call both the USA and USSR fascists too.
@@kylevernon to embrace the philosophy that your race is superior and that survival of your race justifies the extermination of others is fascism. You are foolish to think otherwise. The greatest moral traditions of humanity call you to abandon racial or familial ties in favor of a morality that applies to all sentient minds and beings.
@@kylevernon my point about the false flag is that the bugs didn’t actually NECESSARILY represent an existential threat to mankind. They never actually attacked earth directly. That was invented to justify genocide.
This is the only review of Starship Troopers that I have seen that actually covers what is in the book and doesn't cherry pick to fit a narrative.
The movie really does not do the mobile infantry justice. The amount of destruction an infantryman is capable of would make a space marine from WH40K blush.
@@googleandsusansucks
th-cam.com/video/zwFMszIVGko/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HXactIkpFBzeGMAZ
Knowing Better does a better job
th-cam.com/video/JSg6eOmgvW8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FgqZupg5LXW2D4kc
Lmaooooo what!???? Bruh that just means it aligns so well with your own politics that you agree with the analysis.
@@plasmanip3998 maybe you can elaborate, nobody will pay attention to a comment from 10 months ago without some meat on it.
This is a suitable _Starship Troopers_ video, until it's banned or we find one better.
LOL. Fucking PERFECT comment. Bravo. Elect Akallisto.
You win sir
Did you find better one?
Whoever did the voice over parts is pure cancer. I can't stand his fake Kraut and Tea-esque accent. Why the fuck is he rolling his R's? I literally couldn't make it past maybe the third voice over part. His stupid fake accent gives me cancer on my cancer.
@@bashpr0mpt719 Arch Warhammer? It's just how he talks. It's probably because he's a Norwegian (or Swede --- I don't know) who learned English from Brits. I can't imagine him not sounding pretentious with that background.
"I need a new squad leader, you're it until you're dead or I find someone better" ~ Wedding Vows
Based
Epic :)
Truth
oh, this makes me laugh far more than it should.
You forgot part 2.
"And if I find someone better, don't forget to pay allimony."
Has it really been 5 years? Wow. This has aged phenomenally well. I refer to it regularly when arguing with people about Starship Troopers and Fascism in general.
It's incredibly valuable that someone has laid out Heinlein's philosophy in a quick and easily understandable way like this. Thank you.
'Heinlein's Philosophy'
But he left out the body painting, and the gender/body-swapping. Also, the bit where you should marry the girl you knew ever since she was little, as soon as you travel into the future and she is legal now,
@@RHatcherMD sounds based except for that last bit
Sorry, but I am too based to care what you think.@@themanofmovies8104
"Figuring things out for yourself is the only freedom anyone really has. Use that freedom" said no NPC ever
Though I could honestly see this being a good line for an npc in a sandbox game.
I just coded an NPC that uses that exact line. Your point is disproven sir. They are evolving.
Wake up sheeple!
doesn't JP talk about taking on responsibility, getting married, etc? Or is it ok when tradcons do it?
I always used to think this was a dumb throw away line, but now I realize it might be one of the most important lines in the movie.
The Terran federation did absolutely nothing wrong.
the federation went into bug space first.
Magnus did nothing wrong
Until such time as any treaty or mutually accepted boundaries of said space, neither party has responsibility to respect the lives of the other. If cows could fight back or were even capable of appeals for mercy, they wouldn't be food.
Magnus the Pious maybe
@@TentaclePentacle The Mormons did without The Federations permission, the bugs reacted by trying to destroy Earth (throwing meteors at it).
The culture shown in the film was truly equal. No racism. No sexism. Men and women actually liked each other.
there was obvious prosperity and happiness. Even worse, merit is rewarded and cheered on by others.
I can see why the modern socialist crowd were having night terrors over the film.
Imagine a society with so little fear of sexual assault, that in the MILITARY no less, men and women shower in the same room. Sleep in the same room, Dress in the same room.
Yeah, they're calling it "fascist" because they had good costumes that looked like WWII German uniforms. The society from ST was anything but fascist.
as a russian kid watching this film in 90s I thought there was nothing wrong with it. I thought - "oh nice, so this is the american freedom of choice, no one is conscripted to army like in my own country".
Alex Bush CHOICE is the key difference
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We do have the draft, we just don't always use it
@@torg2126yup. One world event away from conscriptions. We’re already registered for it
except we still have the draft, they just renamed it the "selective service" and all men are required to register for it when they turn 18.
@@DanielRichards644that's not the draft. It's just a way of collecting the information of young men in case of a draft.
Need to know more intensifies
Alex Carson it’s supposed to be [desire to know more intensifies]
Not if that desire becomes so Intense it transforms into a need
*likes the video before even watching*
“I’m doing my part”
I'm doing my part
I have seen pirated cam version and it's brilliant.
I'm doing my part.
Im doing my part too!!!
You sir are now a citizen. "I've done my part"
5 years later and this is still a definitive review of the movie and story over all. Love to see it.
congrats you've been mentally challenged for 5 years
1:09:46 I cant quite remember, but I think the movie "Enders game" (cant speak on behalf of the book) actually went a bit into this, how the alien bugs/swarms of that movie apparently were genuinely horrified when they found out that every single human being is an individual, not a hivemind. essentially they just thought they were just killing a few "drones" of humanity, the equivalent of a bit of a scuff/bruises for them, only to find out that killing even a single person is essentially the equivalent of killing an entire HIVE for them. Its an interesting concept, entities that have such a fundamentally different nature to us as humans, that comminications/understanding is either ludicrously difficult, or even impossible.
This is a retcon added in one of the book’s sequels and backported to the movie. Originally they didn’t think humans were intelligent, something so moronic it absolutely demanded a retcon, so in the sequels it got one and the interpretation you mention exists. Which I do agree is very interesting and quite plausible.
Macross Frontier also has this troupe
@@Betrix5060i recall it being a thing in the book too, something that the bugs had realized AFTER the war.
@ndelozier7156Starship troopers or Ender's Game? Because I don't remember that being a thing for the former but the latter definitely had it. The retcon wasn't that they realized they screwed up right as the war was ending, it's that their reason for fucking up was changed to be more believable, since no advanced species could plausibly look at modern day earth and assume humans weren't intelligent. I think it was added into later prints of the book too so you might've read one of those.
Yep, the formics are actually sympathetic since the queens are actually sapient and conscious. The arachnids are not. They are not conscious, they act mostly on instinct. Even the brain bugs are not sapient in the same way you and I are. That’s the huge difference. Formics were a highly advanced and sapient alien species, the arachnids are essentially alien animals.
"BRAIN NPCS? FRANKLY I FIND THE IDEA OF AN NPC THAT CAN THINK OFFENSIVE!"
People not understanding that you used the movie mostly for backdrop while you used Heinleins book as the premise for the majority of your statements.
It is what i would consider required reading for highschool students. History and Moral philosophy is exactly the sort of thing schools are missing. Bloody lessons learned from history, like the inevitable rise of slavery in any human colony and the various guises under which it operated in the last two centuries. Indentured servitude to sweatshops and beyond.
It's also the only science fiction novel on the West Point Required Reading List.
Verhoeven completely twisted the novel and the Average American doesn't even know it because they don't know how to read and process a book.
would it be possible for someone to make a better movie that did justice to the book?
I read this book in middle school (70's) and it formed the basis of much of my political beliefs I still hold today. I hate this movie with a burning passion.
It's okay as a popcorn flick...enjoyable even.
You just have to forget its name or that fact that you ever read the novel it wasn't based on...
Humans: *Establish a Peaceful Colony*
Bugs: *Butcher Colonists like Animals*
*Wipe out Civilian Population Center*
Humans: *Attack Bugs*
Movie Critics: "Is this Fascism?"
Sounds like Israel
@@Man_of_Tomorrow LOL that's funny Israel for example only attacks in self-defense
And to top it off, the colony was illegal specifically because it was in bug territory. The Federation wrote them off and wasn't going to retaliate for that very reason, viewing it as the bugs' right to defend their territory and the colonists' own fault for violating it. Then, the bugs launched more attacks and the Federation had to fight back.
And it was a false flag asteroid
@@Man_of_TomorrowI agree it’s quite like Israel. Except the thing you’re probably not thinking of is you quite literally are what the film is criticizing. You are unironically doing the “only good bug is a dead bug” about real people.
I will not eat ze bug, I will fight ze bug!
He's French, of course he's going to eat the bug.
@@sid2112thought he was danish.
@@odiedodieuk I'm sure I had Colonel DuBois in my mind when typing that last month.
If you will not eat ze bug ze bug will eat you!
Personal responsibility? Some one is getting demonetized.
The fool, he'll catch the attention of all the communist algorithm bots in the area! Lock and load, maggots!
"Sargon the great" ...Nice of Heinlein to reference you in his book
Paul Verhoven: "The book is fascist"
Also Paul Verhoven: Barely reads the book and instead has a writer do it.
He didn't 'have a writer do it', Ed Neumeier, who was a fan of the novel wrote it. Paul Verhoven not reading it is irrelevant as the script didn't follow the book very closely anyway. As a fan of both the movie and the book, anyone who has read the book and think it would make a great commercial movie (commercial being the only way it'd get a budget anywhere near required) cover to cover is an idiot. While there are some things in the book I would love to see played out in live action, most of the book reads like a philosophy textbook.
Sounds like a modern Antifa member. Too lazy to research.
@@Man_of_Tomorrow Dan Judex, the OP, did not comment on the script nor the story but on Paul Verhoven having loud unfounded opinions while acknowledging his ignorance by way of laziness. You're having a different conversation, completely "irrelevent" you could say.
@@Man_of_Tomorrow Nowhere did the OP say anything about the script. He was referring to Verhoven's outspoken and wildly incorrect opinion on the book without ever having actually reading it.
53:13 This is incorrect. The Terran Federation DOES hold the belief "that all life is a communal Darwinian struggle for primacy between district cultural or racial groups", it merely exchanges human "races" for the species of the galaxy, and the TF is more than willing to exterminate the bugs of Kledathu under the justification that if both races seek to expand, one must win out over the other. This is the same ideology as Nazism. You can't pretend the book doesn't defend the metaphor of fascism. It does. Claiming the humans are not the aggressor is also bunk, as the conflict with the other alien race the "Skinnies" shows that humans are oppressive and brutal to a race they have already essentially beaten, and it is heavily implied in the book that the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires could not possibly have been launched by Klendathu, as it would have taken millennia to travel the required distance. It was a false flag by the government to justify the war.
The difference in moral philosophy can be highlighted by comparing it to Orson Scott Card's book Ender's Game. Where the entire plot is essentially the same, except that the author and main character decry the outcome as evil and unwarranted because of a misunderstanding and regret their actions, while in starship troopers, the war continues and the main character sees nothing wrong with exterminating alien
Playing Helldivers 2 while listening so that I can learn to love SUPER EARTH even better
For democracy o7
God I wish that game would come to Xbox. Looks super fun.
For the Emperor!
Came back for a rewatch for this exact reason.
Super Earth is a lot different then the Earth Federation. The defense of the Earth Federation doesn't really apply to Super Earth, hell their 'elections' are done by Google style AI algorithms! lol
The culture war effort is your effort, at work, at school, in your community.
o dang d00d. Very interesting comment
Sargon the 29th of October is #BlackMonday the Farmers of South Africa and their Supporters world wide are holding a protest. Contact me if you need information if you want to make a video on that.
th-cam.com/video/RNzxUrYipMQ/w-d-xo.html
As spoken like a true beliver.
There will always be an battle of ideas man.
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE *CLICKS REPEATEDLY*
*also clicks repeatedly but adds a dot at the end, so the asterisks show instead of bolding*.
@@FrankSancisco oof, did not know that. Well, I already know more :)
Holy shit, who liberated this video from the TH-cam gulag? This is a victory against censorship if I've ever seen one.
Hell yes
I'm so glad to be able to see it again.
it was banned?
@@xnet-pvzok728 Yeah for a while you had to go on other platforms to watch it. Hopefully our friends inside will rise.
@@jero37 Why was it banned?
Verhoeven: "This book is anti-Communist, which makes me offended, hence it can only be fascist!"
Eh, the book isn't _specifically_ anti-Communist. It does the cranky author thing of complaining about every other society that came before the one it depicts, which of course is the correct form of society. It pretty much says that liberal democracies were a failed experiment (who's laughing now, huh?). Unlike EG Star Trek or The Culture, which were elegant enough to leave the reasons why their societies are so utopian as vague generalities, Starship Troopers just halts the narration to talk at you about them in very precise political terms, which are generally expected to be convincing.
Now I actually have some respect for the honesty of just coming out and saying it out loud, and to its credit the book is somewhat decent at avoiding the common pitfall of completely torpedoing its narrative in favor of delivering pol-sci lessons - although not always. However, it does come off as very inelegant, especially with the hindsight of the modern age.
Heinlein wrote the bug to be a blatant comparison to communism and is critical of communism through the criticism of the bugs in the book. It's very anti-communist.
@@Blaze6108 I would say Heinlein is laughing, since most western democracies have devolved into oligarchies that don't actually care about their citizens, or peasants.
That sums it up
Pretty much
The Politics of Starship Troopers 00:00
Why are my favorite culture channels in love with Fascism? 02:14
Moral Idealism and Political Realism 3:47
Who was Robert Heinlein? 08:09
The Starship Troopers Universe 10:58
Violence 25:28
The Mobile Infantry 32:19
What is fascism? 35:46
The differences between Heinlein and Fascism 43:08
The similarities between Heinlein and Fascism 46:58
Is Starship Troopers a fascist book? 49:56
Is Starship Troopers a fascist movie? 53:54
Honest Propaganda 58:16
The Terran Federation did nothing wrong 1:03:16
You Want This, Unironically 1:12:25
Conclusion 1:18:16
Needs more likes
+
Great thing to have. You have earned citizenship for your service!
@@metalgearrrex I'm doing my part
Hi where is it talking about science not being a moral Virtue
I just realised something that I never realised before until watching this video, during Rasczak's classroom oration while Rico and Carmen are flirting, with Carmen frustrating his efforts, Diz is shown attempting to see what Rico is doing on his computer screen, right as Rasczak states "Something given has no value," the camera shows Rico and Diz. It seems like this is relevant to the relationship between the three characters, Diz is infatuated with Rico and as a result, she is less valuable to him as a romantic interest, while, similarly, Rico is infatuated with Carmen, which leads to Carmen resisting his advances in the long-term, and eventually going on to serve on a starship assignment, where she ends up in a relationship with Zander, who does not share the same intensity of infatuation that Rico had for Carmen, yet nevertheless he turns out to be more valuable to her as a romantic interest. You could just say that it was a long-distance/at war issue, and maybe that played a part, but I feel that Carmen did not seem very committed to the relationship to begin with, and was willing to let go and move on. Later in the film, you could say Diz earns Rico's love by following him wherever he went and being his comrade in battle, ultimately confessing that she always loved him since high school. The cherry on top of all of this is that, when Diz is dying to the wound inflicted by the Arachnid Warrior, is when Rico truly and passionately shows his love and sorrow for Diz, as she dies, soon to be unavailable forever.
tl;dr Something given has no value.
Callum Cameron this needs more likes or you need to start reviewing movies.
@Callum Cameron ::: I was definitely Diz in high school, however, my love remained unrequited. Thirty-five years later... oof! Meh.
Some things can only ever be given. Physically most men have the capability to take whatever women they want. That they make a moral choice against this does not obviate the animal reality. But love? Force cannot take that. And when someone is in an exquisitely vulnerable place, compassion given can have profound value. But this compassion does not slay personal responsibility. If it is wise compassion it demands it. For ultimately no change is sustainable without such. The either or dynamic presented is incredibly limited in the understanding and experience of what it means to be a human being.
Disregard Childish wants. Turn that need you've projected outwards into nurturing your own sense of self, your own development.
Don't let yourself be Simping, lads and lasses.
Diz may not have been as physically attractive to Rico (give her a break, she had to go up against Denise Richards), demonstrating her competency and ability to care for Rico, elevated her status. Rico, being a typical man, was initially drawn to physical beauty.
Imagine if in fifty years people thought the HALO games were a satire of fascism and that the Covenant were the innocent ones.
I literally listened to a video game review on Spotify maybe a year ago that was making this exact claim. The hosts were saying that because the UNSC looked like the MI from the movie Starship Troopers, they must be the agressors, and it was obvious that the covenant were the good guys. Although they did feel the covenant were a tad problematic because their religion shared some similarity with Christianity.
Moviebob
@@diegodunn-humphrey512 don't you mean movieblob?
Gotta rewatch this again 5 years later
Same. It's a classic.
We are so back
ONLY TOOK 6 MONTHS
Rome wasn't built in a day.
6 months? It has been 2 years since he said he would do it.
Totally worth the wait, I think its one of the best Sargon has ever done.
@@policesquad .............@Sargon your on trial
and just over a hour to watch ! I needed a Tea brake half way through though.
The important part of the book, and one which I have personally experienced, is the part where Rico gets over "the hump." What is "the hump"? I experienced it about halfway through basic training in the Army. I was training during a hot and humid summer in the state of Alabama, a place as foreign to me as Mars. I was training with people from all races and places, some were citizens of other countries. We were under "total control" for our training period, without any freedom whatsoever. To me, a lazy young man who had been free to come and go, and do what I wanted for all of my young life, total hell. I wanted to quit, and quitting was indeed possible, easy in fact. I couldn't sleep for the stress, I hated everything about the Army, and I kicked myself for being so stupid as to enlist. But on a particularly hard day of training, which involved a long road march, a day on the obstacle course, and a largescale assault on my person by hundreds of fire ants, a strange thing happened. We were marching back in the early evening, the sun was sinking, our Drill Sergeant, a tough black man who took no nonsense was marching us to the mess hall for dinner. We sang cadence songs as we marched, and for no real reason, we started singing louder and louder, until our voices were thundering. At that moment, something inside my head clicked, and my entire outlook changed, I "saw the light." I realized that however hard the work was, however high the stress level was, I could handle it. I think of that time as the moment I became a man, and I am thankful for it. Perhaps I would have one day grown up without having to put myself through hell, but I doubt it. From that day I could see more, and my sense of judgment improved. Basic training was scarcely a down payment for the kind of training I would eventually endure, but I found myself able to handle it.
Thanks for sharing this story!
Thanks for sharing and your service
Jonathan Haidth, The Righteous Mind - he calls it 'hive switch'. Its literally a religious experience.
Literally my same experience in the navy
That's something i could only dream of. I'm pretty sure you - in the words of Jordan Peterson - transcended the suffering of human life in that very moment and found your peace in it.
I wonder if JP had a moment similiar to this as well?...
Dude somebody find the writer and shake his hand, he’s a hero! He probably knew what kind of movie the director wanted to make, and was still able to write something with enough pro constitution/citizenship undertones that it slipped past the dummy. Legendary!
The director literally just took the script and directed it. The only input he had was in the aesthetics as evidence by the film itself. He never read the book.
@@Ojthemighty He read only about 2 chapters of it, but he got lazy (probably due to being a soshalist) and he just desperately wanted to create anti-freedom propaganda.
@@DesertStateNevada socialshit. Ive coined it, let it be so.
But yes you are correct. Hes so lazy he didnt even watch his own movie to make sure it was fascist
Exactly the writer was a fan of the book and he dropped some of the most important sections of it into the movie verbatim.
I was actually surprised that he was too lazy to read the book. It does explain how the movie was so far off from the story.
This was peak Sargon, I enjoy the Lotus eaters stuff but he's already produced his Magnum Opus
This was a production of Sargon the individual. We're now deep into the saga of Sargon Inc.
Although this video is great, the Magnum Opus must be the video on how Britain ended the international slave trade, because it covers criminally under-taught history, rather than criminally abused literature.
>Bugs bomb a city killing 10 million
>Bugs continue to send asteroids at Earth attempting to kill more
>Humans fight back
>Humans declared the aggressors.
I thought the implication was that the humans staged the attack on their own city to help fuel their military expansion and give them an alibi for invading Klendathu
Clearly human is code for white male
Ammoniumbicarbonat: I never got that impression, I mean the physics of it are a tad off due to how space works but we see in Rico's call with his parents that it did happen. There really are no signs in the film that they have expansionist goals as if they did they likely would have invaded the Arachnid territory ages ago given how it has several worlds that humans can live on with no terraforming required.
BY OTHER HUMANS NO LESS
ONLY SPECIES THAT DOES THIS.
The Sap Rises From Our Roots: Um no the Arachnids are one species with different castes of bug. A few humans ignored the Federation quarantine zone and were massacred but since the Federation did not even think of retaliating because they had entered bug territory of their own free will. It was only when the bugs attacked Terra and killed millions of innocent civilians that the Federation declared war. We are shown no other signs that humans were intruding on their space in the film and the fact that the Federation labeled it a Quarantine Zone implies that the official government stance was to avoid that area of space.
I have to say I was wrong about you. I thought along with a lot of people that your retreat from topical content was an admission of failure after all the drama. This was absolutely a cut above anything you've done before and I'll take responsibility and admit I misjudged you Sargon. You still did some silly-ass nonsense, but focusing on the content you have a passion for was absolutely the right move and it shows in the quality of this video. Well done.
@Nordic Rune i assume you watched a different video then? If this is boring you, then maybe political discourse and philosophy arent your thing lol
What retreat? He's still doing it.
Yeah, I kind of liken it to grinding against a 300meter thick wall with sandpaper.....It is addicting at first but now I know when to say something and when to shake my head and walk away because any attempt to educate in the specific scenario would be futile.
lmao this is basically a copy-paste of the wikipedia page in video form
@Nordic Rune thats why people made cat videos on TH-cam for the likes of people like you , bye.
I just got banned from the Starship Troopers extermination discord for posting this video, why? Spreading a fascist apology video.
These people made the video game btw its not some unofficial fan discord.
Based. Keep up the good work.
You're stupid enough to think game devs personally run the Discords for their games? Are you 12?
Which one?
That’s because most people are average and normies do as they’re told.
At the beginning of the movie: “The social scientists (I.e. social engineers) brought the world to collapse.”
2020- 2021 in a nutshell
@@MrFryhead957 and still counting 2022
And 2023
2024 still applies
Cyberpunk 2020's book "NeoTribes" goes into this too, apparently.
Verhoeven: I directed Star-ship Troopers!
Sargon: Yeah well I read Star-ship Troopers.
Verhoeven: The movie wasn't about the book......
So there is that......
Only reason the movie is called Starshiptroopers and licensed to the book is, because nobody was gonna fund the "lets mix up Nazi and American propaganda styles to make cautionary satire about the dangers of brainwashing, militarism, groupthink and propaganda". Specially in USA where it was to be produced. Heck the original idea was "Blue eyed white Americans in sign up for military and get brainwashed. Problem is it was the nazi military, but the propaganda they get looks really really lot like USA military news reels". Nobody would have greenlit that.....
So lets make it sci-fi, we have made sci-fi and one can get away with more controversial stuff in sci-fi cladding. "Bug war in outputs nine" or something like that was the original title. Hey there is famous scifi book about something like infantry fighting grunts in aliens planets killing aliens..... If one licenses famous franchise name, it makes studios happy. So Starshiptroopers it is.
The reason the movie and book don't match, is because they aren't supposed to match. Verhoeven did crazy amounts of research into military training films, propaganda etc, because that is what the movie is about. He didn't read the book, because the movie was never about it.
The screenwriter Ed Neumeier just cheaply copied places names, persons names etc. from the book on top of an existing script. Because Heinlein Sci-fi sells well as a brand...... So it was easier to get production funding.
@@aritakalo8011 Nailed it.
@@aritakalo8011 Even if they don't match, the movie isn't Nazi at all. Verhoeven learly does not understand what fascism is.
@@meinleiben2043 I was going to say exactly this. He goes on about how Fascism has all of these faults the movie doesn't have, which isn't what the movie is about at all. It's not meant as a serious study on fascism. He makes some good points but also seems to completely miss the overall point that it's meant to be a propaganda film entirely. It's ultimately about how the sacrifice is worth it for the greater cause. Hence why Carl sent his own best friends squad into what was basically a suicide mission. The movie is purely propaganda for this fictional war. Verhoven does what he does, and he does it well. It's a fun, wild movie. I say this as a huge fan of the book as well. There seems to be a lot of people who are deeply offended that a fictional society that will never exist is incorrectly labelled 'fascist', and how dare Verhoven make light of it! Why didn't they make the movie a 4 hour adaptation of a novel that has about 2 dramatic scenes? I mean the book is great, but its a textbook, not much in the way of characters or plot.
@@Man_of_Tomorrow no one is asking for this mega adaptation as a blockbuster action film. Anyone who has read the book knows that it’s a page turner because it makes you think, not because of how cool the fight scenes are.
I was an extra in Starship Troopers. Got to meet Michael Ironside, even played pool with him in the big rec tent they had. Was a great experience. Thanks for this vid
Cool, a Roughneck.
One thing that everyone seems to forget, or ignore, about the novel, is that the Federation actually does everything it can to diacourage Military service. Yet almost everyone seems to insist that Starship Troopers is some Militaristic Fascist manifesto. Blows my mind how people like to twist that.
Tbh I was surprised by how little action was contained in the book. It really felt like an excuse for Heinlein to espouse his political views, as Sargon said.
There were a couple moments in the book that shook me, but probably the biggest one is when Frankel and Zim both do not address Zim's black eye that he received for striking Ted Hendrick during a freeze drill, and are only forced to when Hendrick openly admits to doing it. Zim was fairly brutal and distant from all his recruits, but when Rico is serving as an orderly for Frankel, he overhears Zim being tongue lashed, which he agrees with, for allowing Hendrick to hit him and that the entire incident was Zim's fault, yet Hendrick must pay the heavy price. The explanation Zim gives is that he underestimated Hendrick because he likes him, which is never displayed. Frankel scolds Zim, stating that he can not afford to either like or dislike any recruit. Johnny only hears this via eavesdropping through a wall and is shocked, and was one of the major events that led to his continued service in the MI.
53:13 This is incorrect. The Terran Federation DOES hold the belief "that all life is a communal Darwinian struggle for primacy between district cultural or racial groups", it merely exchanges human "races" for the species of the galaxy, and the TF is more than willing to exterminate the bugs of Kledathu under the justification that if both races seek to expand, one must win out over the other. This is the same ideology as Nazism. You can't pretend the book doesn't defend the metaphor of fascism. It does. Claiming the humans are not the aggressor is also bunk, as the conflict with the other alien race the "Skinnies" shows that humans are oppressive and brutal to a race they have already essentially beaten, and it is heavily implied in the book that the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires could not possibly have been launched by Klendathu, as it would have taken millennia to travel the required distance. It was a false flag by the government to justify the war.
The difference in moral philosophy can be highlighted by comparing it to Orson Scott Card's book Ender's Game. Where the entire plot is essentially the same, except that the author and main character decry the outcome as evil and unwarranted because of a misunderstanding and regret their actions, while in starship troopers, the war continues and the main character sees nothing wrong with exterminating alien
Verrhoven made his view plain, and everyone assumed he'd actually read the book.
@@jefftheriault5522 Verrhoven said in interviews that he didn’t read past chapter 2 and that the book was “boring”
@@contentiouscritic
RE: ". . . and it is heavily implied in the book that the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires . . ."
It was not even "implied" in the book that it was an asteroid that destroyed Buenos Aires. It was an interstellar missile with an H-bomb warhead, the same as with the Bug attack that "smeared our research station on Pluto."
RE: ". . . as it would have taken millennia to travel the required distance. "
Why would that be? In the book, the Bugs (and the Skinnies) have starships with their own version of a faster-than-light (FTL) drive.
Back here in 2024 after playing Helldivers 2 and wanting to hear this again.
Same lol, and i rewatched this movie while it was downloadinf
PS5
DEAD-DROP
th-cam.com/video/zwFMszIVGko/w-d-xo.html
Starship Troopers was what inspired me to enlist into the Marines. I couldn't really articulate why it did until now, thanks
You, trying to articulate it before this: "I like fascism."
Sorry, I couldn't resist. :D
I read Starship Troopers because it was on the Commandants reading list and our Sgt. gave it to us to read one day.
I Joined the Marines as well brother, I did it because I felt I had to defend those who could not defend themselves. As a friend reminded me one day , " Marines are not the bad guys. Why is this? Because we are human shields for those who can't defend themselves".
"I am easily swayed by propaganda and too stupid to understand to understand satire" There you go.
@@ArchLOL or he felt it conveyed the idea that earning citizenship gave it value. Or did you think the idea of value through work was being satirised?
It's easy to claim the moral high ground by being opposed to violence. But that ground is held up by those that aren't.
The conscientious objector or moral pacifist only has the luxury of his high-mindedness when the threat is not yet at his door. Once it is - you'll see the proof of who he really is: a hypocrite or a coward.
(With this kept in mind - just wars do exist, and you can still be skeptical of the cause. But when you resolve to stand up for something, stand up all the way.)
War is an evil like sickness is an evil.
Soldiers are not evil, and the fighting of war is not evil like the resistance of they body to sickness.
It is ideal that no sickness comes, but it is reality that all people must be prepared for sickness and prepare their bodies for its effects.
It is ideal that no wars come, but it is reality that all people must prepare for war and prepare their minds for its effects.
Until peace can be forged the enemy is met with force,
War is no place for senseless cruelty or foolishness. Only brutality and efficency in the disarmament of the enemy. Wars are fought so that peace can be possible. A war with an impossible peace or a peace not sustainable is incomplete or ideotic.
The morality of war's declaration is in the attainable goals, the morality of a war's prosecution is in the efficacy of the army in the attaining of the goal. Ultimately the faster the war ends, the better for all. A war can only be considered just if the goal is purposeful for the benefit of the citizenry, attainable or lacking that, imperative such as in the given example of starship troopers, and prosecuted with efficency toward the goals.
Amoral wars are fought without attainable or imperative goals, without benefit to the citizenry of the soldiery, and inefficient in prosecution.
This is my opinion.
Or in other words: "...you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall."
Like the old proverb:
"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us."
@Robert Gräfe
But if the pacifists were successful on both sides and talked everyone out of violence, it would work.
The system of government in Starship Troopers isn't fascist, it's essentially a meritocratic republic.
Technically meritocratic, but one thing people are too PC to point out is that who it really invites.
From the book: A "blind paraplegic" can be enlisted to count the hairs on a caterpillar by touch. Totally useless work, yet after two years he or she can vote.
Virtually all seriously disabled people will enlist, while a lot of able folks will choose the civilian life. Then the disabled vote themselves and other disabled welfare from the public largesse. Sound familiar?
To be totally un-PC, while in a "democracy" only half the people making the decisions are "below average" (as I heard a flaming liberal put it after the 2004 election), in Heinlein's idea, MOST of the people who make the decisions will end up being that.
@@TommygunNG the idea is to make it miserable enough to keep them from ever finishing their service. From the way it was explained most of the disabled attempting this are sent to test survival equipment. Which has a high mortality rate.
@@saltlife8221 Even a blind paraplegic?
I do get your point. It's been too long since I read the book to know if that's actually in there. I hope Heinlein was thinking enough to put in something like that.
@@TommygunNG he didn't do this half assed and it was explained during the medical examination.
Meritocratic stratocracy more like it, but still not really fascist
Its crazy that there are people who would ACTUALLY TAKE THE SIDE OF BUGS
Lots of westerners side with Hamas. 🤷♂
@@stab74 they are horrible if they side with hamas
Have you seen them? They are closer to bugs than humans.
My man:
Most people that think the Terran Federation are fasicsts do not believe that the bugs are "the good guys". Nor do they wish to side with them. The loonies that see the implication that humanity opened the conflict with these bugs as an allegory for the colonial expansionism of western Europe, and therefore believe that conflict is unjustified are mistaken at best and rasicts at worst.
@@Ounouh this is what the film was trying to get us NOT to do to other human beings. Making a comment like this means you're as low IQ as the people insinuating that the bugs are the good guys.
Regardless of how one feels about the Israeli project, dehumanizing another person like this speaks volumes.
"...when Sargon the Great forced the Sumerians to cry uncle" (35:10) You gotta be kidding be,. Heinlein actually managed to get a reference to Sargon in the book.
Time Travel CONFIRMED
Time travel makes you gay, so it IS a possibility
It seems he could predict more than the fall of today's sistems.
It's the circle of life!
Thanks to everyone who made this video possible. Below are some links if you'd like to want to read further about all this, support me (this video is demonetised, ofc), join my Discord server, or thank Arch Warhammer for his excellent guest appearance.
Sources and reading list: www.minds.com/Sargon_of_Akkad/blog/the-politics-of-starship-troopers-899788292908392448
To support me or join my Discord server: www.patreon.com/sargon
Guest-starring Arch Warhammer: th-cam.com/channels/hS9wazLlTUHSTeKVG39hZw.html
There is no order without chaos.
Hail Eris, all hail Discordia !
Sargon of Akkad my god you did it you did it
The movie may or not be bad, but it provides the necessary visuals for what might have been an otherwise dry video. In these times of shrinking attention spans encouraged by bloodsports and forced drama around the clock, 8800 viewers is pretty good for a content-rich 80-minute stretch.
You will of course do an analysis of my other favorite books as well, right?
Aw yea sargon should analyse the orson scott card books, starting with enders game
Watching again after 5 years, this aged like a fine whiskey.
Read the book as a kid, one of the first books I've read along with Ender's Game and the Hobbit, didn't like the movie as much due to the massive discrepancies when I first saw it, but it grew on me, and the positive message in a movie that was made to carry a negative message is just hilarious and satisfying.
Watching this post COVID hits different.
Heinlein was prescient with his analysis of “science” and scientists not being necessarily virtuous by themselves, and yet they are still held up as infallible by those who don’t want the accountability of thinking critically.
Finally! it's time to sit down and enjoy this feature length masterpiece *happily munches snacks
Arch Warhammer It’s quite good, except for that pompous twat he got to narrate the excerpts. I bet he probably doesn’t know anything about 40k either.
Now you need to do "Politics of 40k" video with Sargon on your channel.
The political system of the Imperium and why it exists, is.... fascinatingly unique.
You ruined the video, good job.
Get the fuck out of here Arch and go do a Vid on why The Flood vs Tyranids = Tyranids win.
After listening to several hours of your 40k material it was interesting hearing your voice on a different series and real quotes.
Once the Brain bug absorbed the memories of the Mormon colonists, they would have known that the Federation had nothing to do with the colony and is actually avoiding confrontation with them. This means that they knew exactly what they were doing when they flung that asteroid at earth: picking a fight with a non-aggressor.
In order to claim the bugs did nothing wrong, you have to underestimate their intelligence, which is Racism of Low Expectations.
@Bill Whittaker Actually, it was that Mormons don't have a functioning brain.
Unless what they read in the Mormon brain was the overwhelming sense of having a God-given right to settle that planet.
That is very interesting , "Rational Orc" - it sounds like Marxist Theory to me ......or am I wrong ?
Are we sure the bugs ACTUALLY sent the meteor? I interpreted there "attack" as a false flag to rally earths society to band together and fight a common enemy and justify invasion. By the way, I love this movie and I love that it can be viewed from so many angles and still be an awesome movie.
@Bill Whittaker this concept is explored in "enders game". The bugs attacked us as a form of communication. There are only a few "brain bugs" in a hive so having a small skirmish with their drones was just another way of saying hello. It's possible the same could be true in the Starship troopers film.
Sad state of affairs that this video doesn't have millions of views.
The thing that never sat right with me the the "fascism" of the movie was how well-off everyone seemed to be. In a socialist state in which everything was within the state, the civilians shouldn't have that much wealth. So I guess the explanation is that it was actually libertarianism with fascist imagery, and that's why everyone was so wealthy.
The idea that Verhooven stumbled backwards into a movie this good, is literally astounding. I'm a huge fan of his work, especially Robocop and Total Recall, so it isn't surprising that he can make a great movie, but that this movie managed to be a fairly effective translation of Heinlein's thesis in spite of Verhooven's professed complete misunderstanding thereof is one of the great ironies in all of cinema.
Also, anyone who thinks Heinlein was a legit fascist needs to read "Stranger in a Strange Land" and then explain to me how the same author wrote both books.
Thanks for this video, it was really well made, with an obvious amount of care, effort, and thought.
Verhooven did us all an unwitting favor - let's just be grateful .......and laugh a bit.....hahahahaha !
Why must anyone explain anything to you? Who are you?
@Ryan Colligan Yes, those silly directors do stumble backwards into those 100 million dollar films since 1997. Funny that Verhoeven storyboarded every scene, but couldn't be bothered to read the book.
Verhooven's patented _idiot savant_ directing style
r Colligan er
Now that was entertaining, time to wait for the backlash of the npcs telling us sargon is spreading fascist propaganda.
Mr.Uncensored Yes, we will all check out your channel. /s
Your videos are shit m8
@@MeNoOther same with africa
Settlements of Bantu-speaking peoples, who were iron-using agriculturists and herdsmen, were already present south of the Limpopo River (now the northern border with Botswana and Zimbabwe) by the 4th or 5th century CE. (See Bantu expansion.) They displaced, conquered and absorbed the original Khoisanspeakers, the Khoikhoi and San peoples. The Bantu slowly moved south. The earliest ironworks in modern-day KwaZulu-Natal Province are believed to date from around 1050
That's in South Africa. You only get Golden Ages when you have a monopoly on the area usually through conquering. A quick Google search proves that.
Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker wrote in 2007, "quantitative body counts-such as the proportion of prehistoric skeletons with ax marks and embedded arrowheads or the proportion of men in a contemporary foraging tribe who die at the hands of other men-suggest that pre-state societies were far more violent than our own." According to Pinker, the 17th-century philosopher Thomas Hobbes "got it right" when he called pre-state life a "war of all against all."
This was written in context of native Americans who waged war as easily as they breathed.
4 years later & it’s still a banger of a video
Who's here in 2024?
Me. Audiobook on TH-cam “Starship Troopers audiobook SFX”
Helldivers 2 brought me back lol
@@Mrdestiny17 Funnily I dove back into this not a month ago, to participate in internet feuding. Bt after a 3 hour play session ... YES
Me too. Great video
Helldivers brought me here as well.
Rasczak’s “recruiting” philosophy is the same as The Marine Corps’ - the few, the proud. It is an open challenge to anyone who thinks they can answer. No one forces you to join, you do so because you want to prove you can be counted among those ranks of the best. Or as Ric Flair said “to be the man, Wooooooo, you have to beat the man.”
I was thinking this sounded like a pretty good way to run a state, but, thanks to you, I'm reminded how insufferable most marines are, and, I'm not so sure any more.
That makes sense - after Vietnam, this book became required reading for every new lieutenant in the Marine Corps.
they are a bit vegan in that way xD
Pretty consistent with my experiences with them as an army grunt. They've got amazing esprit-de-corps, and generally courageous blood-thirsty bastards, in the best grunt way.
Beaches are impossible to defend; the only method to survive would be to push on regardless of casualties. It makes a lot of sense Marines would have that kind of belief.
The NPC cannot trigger, if you disable his hand.
HUMAN ON NPC HATE SPEECH IDENTIFIED
ME NOT NPC THOUGH
Best comment ever
while it may sound pendanic at this point, that LITERALLY made me laugh out loud!
Love that you got Arch to be your narrator.
Also, this book is eerily prophetic for our modern age....
Anyone with eyes to see could see the direction society has been falling for a long time. Its likely a civil/social-war/purge followed by the intuition of a Heinlein model republic is the only chance to save Liberty and human dignity in the long run.
Listening to this while crushing bugs in Helldivers 2
The Federation did nothing wrong.
The Administration did nothing wrong.
But it is de facto controlled by a military junta of Starfleet admirals. The Federation assembly is just window dressing like the Senate in Imperial Rome. This becomes especially clear after watching DS9.
but Han shot first....
i would like to know more.
I cheered for the shadows, the vorlons were cunts
This has to be one of the single most anticipated videos on this entire channel. Cannot wait to see this!
th-cam.com/video/RP0c-pQYy-E/w-d-xo.html
He has hyped this alot, so if it is shit...
Rick Astley, -Never Gonna Give You Up . Would be "Le Epic Troll".
We would REEEE louder than 1 million SJW's....
Oh my god that would be hilarious. I wouldn't even be mad.
Might have been the most anticipated on TH-cam period. Definitely on this channel. Thank goodness that it delivered so wonderfully.
"Service guarantees citizenship" is a double entendre. Not only will service bestow citizenship as a reward, but citizenship as a concept and the benefits it bestows cannot be guaranteed without service
Technocracy - check
Roving hyper violent bands - check
Government dole money - check
War with China - brewing
Welcome to 2021.
guess it's time to demand service for citizenship
@@Ike_of_pyke Where do I sign up at?
Sign me up too
Still waiting on the war. 2 years until retirement... I might have one war left in me.
In the Novel, The Bugs actually have subordinate species. The Skinnies are a client race that turn on the bugs and assist the Federation in taking down the bugs. I enjoyed the book more than the movie, because it went further into the reasons and thoughts behind the conflict. In the end of the novel, Rico's dad actually joins the MI and would have served under his own son. It's interesting to note that Zim wanted to fight, not train other soldiers, and I would have liked to have seen a movie that was closer to the book. I think it would have been more interesting to watch.
Edit: Thank you for pointing out that rights come with responsibilities. I've been saying this for 20 years.
In the last chapter of the book when Rico is now the LT of the Roughnecks his dad is the platoon sergeant. The last two men to get into the pods.
@The Rational Rifleman Yeah, the scene where he finds out his Dad had not gone to Buenos Aires with his Mother because of some business that delayed him by a day was one of the ones I liked.
The skinnies weren't a subordinate species. They were allied with the Bugs, and subsequently changed their alliance to humanity.
You mentioned that Heinlein was in the Navy. but not that he was an Annapolis Graduate -- the elite naval equivalent of West Point. I believe that is the equivalent of your Britannia Royal Naval College. A very serious and difficult educational experience.
@@sperg0101 I'm convinced that JP has a copy of starship troopers on him at all times now
@@sperg0101 Sargon interviewed him when all this started. I think they know each other professionally.
@@sperg0101 yeah. I'd like to see them do an in person interview. Sargon's getting good at them
Heinlein is a Ring-Knocker??
@@TheAzureNightmare Annapolis, class of 1929. Assigned to Aircraft Carrier USS Lexington. Contracted TB while serving on the USS Roper (Not Curable before antibiotics) Medically retired as disabled in 1934.
Twitter keeping this video relevant
All the people calling the movie fascist would quit a debate with Sargon in five minutes. Pure ignorance
@@marcosamell96 sadly, recent evidence suggests that they wouldn't quit, they'd just screech louder.
Or pull a fire alarm
The only thing fascist about “Starship Troopers” is it’s use of really cool looking nazi uniforms.
Ask anyone who calls the society fascist, and that will be the only thing they'll be able to cite as proof it's fascist. Then they'll laugh at you for "not getting it" before rage quitting.
Film only not the book. But it was blatant.
Those are Fascist uniforms you dope.
Black and grey is the fascist colors.
Nazi colors are black and brown.
@Payton Cantrell well with how they behave nowadays yes
@Payton Cantrell No. They aren't even anarcho communist like they claim. They are just punk rock democrats and trans fruit bootys.
This is probably the best thing Sargon has ever made.
Totally agree, this is a very in depth and well researched analysis of both the book and the movie. I cannot fault it and i have been thinking about many of these concepts for years. Of course the question is, how stable is the federation politically. Regardless, its unlikely this form of government will every get a chance, the lobby groups would make sure of that.
But he's completely wrong about it. The movie is a satire on facism it's not praising facism. I cannot believe Sargon completely missed the joke!
Magnum Opus
If you have not seen it check out Sargons To honor the dissidents.
@@WholeShebangComedy you clearly didnt read the book
"They break the regulations for sentimental reasons."
Ricco demanded his place. He stood firm, showing a willingness to fight for his citizenship. Sentimental perhaps but also exactly the sort of person they're trying to create at boot camp.
They'd also likely be willingly held accountable for deviating from the rules, if someone saw fit to pursue it. In other words taking up the risk on his behalf. Potentially creating a rippling manly bromance effect rocking the entire federation to its knees, begging for more...
.....aaaaaaaand so begins the 50 Shades of Rico's Roughnecks fan fiction.
Rico and Dizzy? Nawwww...
Rico and Carmen? Nuh-uhhh, no way...
But a tender young Rico and his mentor Senpai Zim? Oh shit, it's already green lit by Netflix. Medic! -_-;;
such thing often happened back in the day. during ww1, and to a lesser extent during ww2 many underage young men were allowed to volunteer for the military on the strength of their felt, if not understood convictions, because recruiting sergeants and cos looked the other way. audie murphey is one such hero.
Ahh, mention starship troopers on lotus eaters and this is suddenly recommended by TH-cam. Love it or hate the algo, I'm sometimes glad for it
Sargon doesn't really post on this channel anymore. It got put in the TH-cam gulag. He has a new channel that he runs with friends. It's called "Podcast of the Lotus Eaters"
So very relevant today. We're witnessing the unraveling of the 20th century democracy as Heinlein predicted.
Yes!
Anyone with eyes to see could see the direction society has been falling for a long time. Its likely a civil/social-war/purge followed by the intuition of a Heinlein model republic is the only chance to save Liberty and human dignity in the long run.
A hollywood director makes an adaption of a novel and does not read that novel....business as usual in hollywood.
He'd have to know how to read first and foremost.
I got over The Dark Tower "film" but now I am thinking about how much I cant stand Hollywood all over again.
It ended up playing out better. If he'd understood the source material he may have been able to altee it into real fascism.
at least the writer of the movie read the book. Pretty sure that's more than some adaptations can say...
@@imreborbas9029 I guess the fact that the writer read it is what matters, directors I think get too much credit for movies when really all they do is boss people around they aren't always the creative force behind films.
SERVICE.
GUARANTEES.
CITIZENSHIP.
That slogan is from the movie, not the book.
correct.
And?
Realistically It would be more accurate to say Service Guarantees First Class Citizenship.
Garomcfbgdd TREASON.
GUARENTEES.
FREEDOM.
Vive La Resistance'!!!😲
This video is gonna has a resurgence in the light of Hellraisers 2.
I’ve read this book at least four times. There’s a fantastic reason it was on The Marine Corps Commandant’s reading list.
Semper Fi
The Bandog only if it’s in crayon
@The Bandog did he also specify what color crayons he preferred?
The Bandog I thought the major was a lady suffragette
It is one of the very few fiction books that is required reading at West Point!
_"I would say that my position is not too far from that of Ayn Rand's; that I would like to see government reduced to no more than internal police and courts, external armed forces - with the other matters handled otherwise. I'm sick of the way government sticks its nose in everything, now."_
-- Robert A. Heinlein, 1973 interview
What a fascist!
1973 Government: I'm gonna stick my nose in everything.
2018 Government: Hold my beer.
Holy shit that is so fascist! I'm triggered 😂😂😂
These days it seems as if anyone so much as an inch to the right of Mao is quickly and angrily labelled a fascist. I shouldn't be surprised, but somehow I still find that shocking.
That said, I'd like to recommend Heinlein's _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress._ Good stuff in there.
That quote is a bit stupid/naive, because you need more government (actually: bureaucracy) the more people are in your country. If you have "the wild open west" you dont need a lot of government, but if you have New York and its population density you need cops, people fixing roads and "city plumbing", schools, support for ("high") arts, ... and the current trend of Google, Twitter, Facebook & Co. clearly shows that private companies NEED some "opposing force" to protect the population from their dominance and one-sidedness. The problem is NOT "the government" as a system, the problem is "the INDOCTRINATED (= one-sided/non-objective) people making up this governement".
THIS is the big problem we are facing ... the UNACCOUNTABILITY of bureaucrats for shit they do ... like wasting money on "too grand stuff" that people dont want. An example is our very own "scandal airport" here in Berlin, which has taken 10+ years to build by now and has cost BILLIONS that the state of Berlin doesnt have. No bureaucrat or politician will ever be held accountable for all the stuff that went wrong with that.
The Director's commentary just reinforces the notion that leftists can't tell the difference between Fascism and Liberalism.
The director wants to sell his movie and knows his audience more like.
More like the author of this video intentionally misguided the viewers on what fascism and nazism are, including their economic system, to try to prove the absence of fascism ideology in Starship Troopers.
@@kicunya12lol, lmao.
Go read vampire economy you communist.
@@kicunya12 wrong to the point of imbecility. The requirements of fascism and the setup for Starship Troopers are diametrically opposed to each other. Any further comparison breaks down for the simple reason fascism simply can’t tolerate voluntary action or dissent. All things must serve the state. The Terran Federation tolerates both.
@kicunya12 congrats. You're an idiot.
I’m absolutely loving these “Politics of” series of videos, please keep doing them
Thank you so much for this. Great content. If this is what replaces "This week in stupid" I'm extremely glad that you have taken this new direction.
nrylee how about having both
@@angusmatthews1806
How about having time to sleep, eat and not estranging yourself from friends and family?
Joehtosis calm down I’m just saying I would rather both dude
'This year in research'
Can we get a HBO or Netflix series based on Heinlein's actual source material without satirizing it? It is seriously needed.
The closest adaption is probably the video game, but only touches on the politics. There was also an unfinished 3D CGI tv series, again not focusing on the politics.
HBO is sjw, so dont do it through them please
You're right. The video game 'Starship Troopers Terran Ascendancy' has lots of nods to the book (starship names, actual M.I. powered armour, missions to destroy Arachnid queens etc) whilst maintaining the Paul Verhoeven film's aesthetic.
Not HBO please, it's only limited to the US.
Can I see some power armor, please?
21:08
"How about a trip to the outer rings? Zugama beach?"
"How about you take a trip to my outer ring and Zugama balls, dad?"
Best comment here
Rico: Zegema Beach? I always wanted to go there
Watkins: *cocks rifle* Good luck, it's not there anymore...
I strongly encourage everyone that watched the movie to read or at least, listen, to the book….the last half of the book talks about not just responsibility but also what it means to be responsible for and in charge of people….it used to be on the required reading list for cadets at West Point and was also on the recommended reading list for NCO’s….not sure if it is anymore. I pray in my life time that the book is made into a faithful adaption, complete with the power armor and of course the raid on the skinnies that take place in the first chapter of the book
th-cam.com/video/zwFMszIVGko/w-d-xo.html
_You'd better do your part, bucko. It's for your own damn good_
Tremendous work Sargon, and worth the wait
This is what the internet was for. And the internet is rewarding it. Over 100K views in 19 hours.
Just think how many writers, production staff and editors it would have taken for the BBC to fuck it up. Here’s one man with mates who did a 1st class job on a shoe-string budget. Sargon, you bad-ass!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-C.S. Lewis.
@@Max-nc4zn “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
Good find and so true
Sarcastic account apart. It must be hard to reiterate Petersons observations he accumulated over the years.
This has better quality than most of bbc documentaries
And I didn't even need a tele loisence to watch it.
That's why the Media is scared of youtubers.
The absolute best line in 100 years of entertainment "they sucked his brains out".
When Helldivers 2 comes out and everyone starts talking about Starship Troopers again.
Me: *Sips my nice cup of Liber-Tea.*