Almost everything that he said would also apply to judo in Japan. In fact I think that judo would edge wrestling out where you are. Grappling first then add in in the striking or teach them Karate and you have a formidable fighter. Traditional karate appears to be a grappling art with strikes. Uechi doesn’t have Naihanchi but that Kata is a perfect example of grappling with strikes.
Judo in japan is almost only Olympic style now. I think you would be right if you said judo 50 years ago but maybe not today. It’s all sport and I think wrestling slightly edges it out due to both the leg techniques and the ability to get back up from the ground. Both of which are mostly gone from current judo even in japan. And for the karate, you would be correct in theory but maybe not average practitioners. The average practitioner of karate doesn’t train the the level of a wrestler which is a huge factor. Most karate guys can’t use the techniques under pressure while almost every wrestler can. I think that’s a big factor here. If karate drilled and trained like wrestling then you would be on to something. That’s something I’m hoping to encourage. What styles do you train? Also - I also do shorin-ryu and Naihanchi is one of my top three favorite kata in both systems
Yeah, the points you make about newaza and the leg grab takedowns are a few caveats that I was also wondering about when it came to judo. As far as my point on Karate, it’s that if one took a good wrestler and taught him or her Karate, they would be extremely formidable because of the how they trained. Due to intensity, drilling, and pressured testing they would already know how to manipulate, move, and control their opponents body, with resistance, with the added elements of strikes from Karate. I also, assume that they will take that same drilling, and live, pressure testing style of training into their Karate practice. So, I am in no disagreement with your points on Karate. My styles are boxing (western) and ShorinjiKempo (the Japanese version from Shikoku, not Shaolin Kung Fu). I wrestled but only during my freshman year in high school.
His entire argument hinges around the fact that wrestling is only for people seriously into competition. What breaks the logic of this is that pretty much only high schools and colleges have wrestling teams/gyms and with state/country sanctioned matches. If all of a sudden wrestling was dropped from schools, no one would do it. If it all schools started BJJ (or any other martial art really) and the state/country organized matches and competitions, BJJ would then become as competitive as wrestling is now.
Id agree, but I don't necessarily think that destroys his argument. A lot of his argument has to do with intensity levels in training. I can think of a few styles which, technique wise, can make an equal argument to usability in self-defense, but none of them have the intensity or culture of wrestling. From how often they drill moves to perfection, to how they deal with chaos. In theory any martial art could snatch these benefits by changing how they train, but how the world is set up right now I get his point. Originally, I was super against it because I'm like, I know muay thai/karate/bjj guys who train crazy hard and can do all these things. But then I notice he is talking about averages and not the top tear. I think the biggest issue, which i should have gone into more, is how the inaccessibility outside of schools makes it extremely impractical for adults to learn at a decent level.
@@StrykeTeamOfficial But why does wrestling have a culture of intensity? Because it is in schools done by young people who have the time, energy, and recovery level to do train at that intensity. A 35 year old BJJ/Karate/TMA practitioner does not have the time to train 2+ hours a day, or the body to recover and be able to do that 5 days a week. If the schools all swapped to another martial art, that art would have an intensity culture. So you can't really compare the intensity of a martial art when one is ONLY done by guys 14-24 years old and the others are open to everyone. His video was called "The ACTUAL Best Martial Art For Self-Defense" but 90% of his points were talking about how intense wrestlers train and how hard they go in competition. To compare apples to apples you would have to compare people in other martial arts who train at the same intensity/amount. And you shouldn't compare averages for this same reason. If a dojo has a very intense class for advanced people but also a kids class, is it now not good for self defense because the kids class is glorified babysitting? Of course not.
@@william_hartman I mean... I am not sure i completely agree with that intensity part. While the focus on competition is fully based on it being a highschool sport and that part would change the average, wrestling is naturally more intense than most training. BJJ training, even in competition based schools, is often less grulling than wrestling just due to the rule set and styles of the competition. There are a lot of bjj techniques that require less expolosive movements so the pace can be a lot slower. I also think its a naturally higher pace than many striking arts depending on your style. You do make a point of competition teams being a better comparison though. When you make it competition teams only the argument does become weaker. I would still put it in my top 5 though just purely off the skillset. --- how about this. Hop on the channel with me and lets do a breakdown of this thing!
I go to a Carlson Gracie school. They don’t let us coast at all. Tons of pressure and we have to learn over time how to deal with it. Wrestlers get tapped even by those that don’t compete. I’d say every wrestler I’ve seen is on the level of about a 1-2 stripe while belt. I’m currently a bluebelt. His points and tone come off as elitist to me 😶
I get your point but I also think it comes down to the averages more than personal experience. He may be over exaggerating the high school wrestler ideal but I think it's pretty legitimate for a college level wrestler instead. The common MMA/BJJ joke of the Legendary Character the D1 Wrestler exists for this reason I think.
@@StrykeTeamAbroad Yeah there are some talented D1 wrstlers I've sparred against but they only dominated me as a white belt in BJJ and a lot of these guys were much larger as well.
Also, checkout Chadi's page for things Judo which the guy didn't mention. Espeically if they teach Ne-Waza Judo is more than capable and up there with wrestling. I cross train in both BJJ and Judo
@@EthanNoble I would give Judo a lot of credit as a street-effective martial art. Still not sure if i think on average it would take wrestling in its current form but old Judo back when it had leg takedowns on top of its current stuff I would probably put it on top.
@@StrykeTeamOfficial Absolutely. It's a shame many judo schools don't practice Ne-Waza (ground techniques). My Sensei has a blackbelt in both BJJ and Judo so we train both to bridge that gap and be dynamic on the ground. He's old school from Brazil
Almost everything that he said would also apply to judo in Japan. In fact I think that judo would edge wrestling out where you are. Grappling first then add in in the striking or teach them Karate and you have a formidable fighter. Traditional karate appears to be a grappling art with strikes. Uechi doesn’t have Naihanchi but that Kata is a perfect example of grappling with strikes.
Judo in japan is almost only Olympic style now. I think you would be right if you said judo 50 years ago but maybe not today. It’s all sport and I think wrestling slightly edges it out due to both the leg techniques and the ability to get back up from the ground. Both of which are mostly gone from current judo even in japan. And for the karate, you would be correct in theory but maybe not average practitioners. The average practitioner of karate doesn’t train the the level of a wrestler which is a huge factor. Most karate guys can’t use the techniques under pressure while almost every wrestler can. I think that’s a big factor here. If karate drilled and trained like wrestling then you would be on to something. That’s something I’m hoping to encourage. What styles do you train?
Also - I also do shorin-ryu and Naihanchi is one of my top three favorite kata in both systems
Yeah, the points you make about newaza and the leg grab takedowns are a few caveats that I was also wondering about when it came to judo. As far as my point on Karate, it’s that if one took a good wrestler and taught him or her Karate, they would be extremely formidable because of the how they trained. Due to intensity, drilling, and pressured testing they would already know how to manipulate, move, and control their opponents body, with resistance, with the added elements of strikes from Karate. I also, assume that they will take that same drilling, and live, pressure testing style of training into their Karate practice. So, I am in no disagreement with your points on Karate. My styles are boxing (western) and ShorinjiKempo (the Japanese version from Shikoku, not Shaolin Kung Fu). I wrestled but only during my freshman year in high school.
@@ken2000X ahhh ok. Now that I understand what you were saying more I agree with you about karate.
Wrestlers are typically the toughest guys, they are. If you do boxing and wrestling for 6 months you can beat a lifelong martial artist.
His entire argument hinges around the fact that wrestling is only for people seriously into competition. What breaks the logic of this is that pretty much only high schools and colleges have wrestling teams/gyms and with state/country sanctioned matches. If all of a sudden wrestling was dropped from schools, no one would do it. If it all schools started BJJ (or any other martial art really) and the state/country organized matches and competitions, BJJ would then become as competitive as wrestling is now.
Id agree, but I don't necessarily think that destroys his argument. A lot of his argument has to do with intensity levels in training. I can think of a few styles which, technique wise, can make an equal argument to usability in self-defense, but none of them have the intensity or culture of wrestling. From how often they drill moves to perfection, to how they deal with chaos. In theory any martial art could snatch these benefits by changing how they train, but how the world is set up right now I get his point. Originally, I was super against it because I'm like, I know muay thai/karate/bjj guys who train crazy hard and can do all these things. But then I notice he is talking about averages and not the top tear. I think the biggest issue, which i should have gone into more, is how the inaccessibility outside of schools makes it extremely impractical for adults to learn at a decent level.
@@StrykeTeamOfficial But why does wrestling have a culture of intensity? Because it is in schools done by young people who have the time, energy, and recovery level to do train at that intensity. A 35 year old BJJ/Karate/TMA practitioner does not have the time to train 2+ hours a day, or the body to recover and be able to do that 5 days a week. If the schools all swapped to another martial art, that art would have an intensity culture. So you can't really compare the intensity of a martial art when one is ONLY done by guys 14-24 years old and the others are open to everyone.
His video was called "The ACTUAL Best Martial Art For Self-Defense" but 90% of his points were talking about how intense wrestlers train and how hard they go in competition. To compare apples to apples you would have to compare people in other martial arts who train at the same intensity/amount. And you shouldn't compare averages for this same reason. If a dojo has a very intense class for advanced people but also a kids class, is it now not good for self defense because the kids class is glorified babysitting? Of course not.
@@william_hartman I mean... I am not sure i completely agree with that intensity part. While the focus on competition is fully based on it being a highschool sport and that part would change the average, wrestling is naturally more intense than most training. BJJ training, even in competition based schools, is often less grulling than wrestling just due to the rule set and styles of the competition. There are a lot of bjj techniques that require less expolosive movements so the pace can be a lot slower. I also think its a naturally higher pace than many striking arts depending on your style. You do make a point of competition teams being a better comparison though. When you make it competition teams only the argument does become weaker. I would still put it in my top 5 though just purely off the skillset. --- how about this. Hop on the channel with me and lets do a breakdown of this thing!
I go to a Carlson Gracie school. They don’t let us coast at all. Tons of pressure and we have to learn over time how to deal with it. Wrestlers get tapped even by those that don’t compete. I’d say every wrestler I’ve seen is on the level of about a 1-2 stripe while belt. I’m currently a bluebelt. His points and tone come off as elitist to me 😶
I get your point but I also think it comes down to the averages more than personal experience. He may be over exaggerating the high school wrestler ideal but I think it's pretty legitimate for a college level wrestler instead. The common MMA/BJJ joke of the Legendary Character the D1 Wrestler exists for this reason I think.
@@StrykeTeamAbroad Yeah there are some talented D1 wrstlers I've sparred against but they only dominated me as a white belt in BJJ and a lot of these guys were much larger as well.
Also, checkout Chadi's page for things Judo which the guy didn't mention. Espeically if they teach Ne-Waza Judo is more than capable and up there with wrestling. I cross train in both BJJ and Judo
@@EthanNoble I would give Judo a lot of credit as a street-effective martial art. Still not sure if i think on average it would take wrestling in its current form but old Judo back when it had leg takedowns on top of its current stuff I would probably put it on top.
@@StrykeTeamOfficial Absolutely. It's a shame many judo schools don't practice Ne-Waza (ground techniques). My Sensei has a blackbelt in both BJJ and Judo so we train both to bridge that gap and be dynamic on the ground. He's old school from Brazil