I realise I came across a little more intense or bothered in this video than I really am. Obviously I'm just talking about a comic book character and it's all for fun in the end. People have been asking me to emote or engage more during my videos and this was my attempt to do that. Sorry if it comes across as weird as a result. If you are thinking about purchasing comics in the future consider using my affiliate marketing link here to help support the channel: amzn.to/2Vxyn5N
I'd want to ask, why did you assume that the Presence counted as one of the gods that has walked the Earth? I'd actually ask one thing: Has the Presence ever actually... Walked on the Earth? I'm genuinely not sure.
He's walked the Earth several times particularly in the New 52 Phantom Stranger. I actually referenced that comic in this video. It's not an assumption to say that a being constantly referred to as a god is a god lol.
I think a lot of people miss the point of the Lucifer and presence story. The presence tells lucifer he had a similar relationship with his creator. Part of it was making your own choices and to ascend past your beginnings.
I read comics every now and then, I like DC comics stuff as much as the next guy, but never bothered looking into all this, just reading those as stories. But I really like your approach, your research is much appreciated, sat through the whole video without pausing or skipping, really well done.
Silk Man also said iirc that there will be other creations and other makers which should further indicate that The Presence isn't supreme or omnipotent (Imo there isn't omnipotence in fiction, but whatever).
Since you mentioned in the video you wanted to know if you changed anyone's mind with this, I want to say you actually did with me. I had really enjoyed your Mordru video but had been a little skepetical about the veracity of some of the scaling with The Presence because I had always thought it was supposed to be this invincible, all knowing, all powerful being in DC cosmology. I think the whole "look at the argument holistically" was a really good point to put in there. I had actually felt like nitpicking the blight example because till now I had interpretted as a empty boast considering the angel he had said it too was claiming the opposite if I recall, but considering the context, the weight of other super clear examples of The Prescence being fallible from other comics, and the implications of his origin what the Blight said made perfect sense.
Would it be possible for you to make a video ranking the strongest characters published in DC? I have seen your cosmology video but I would love a more in depth scope of the residents of these realms especially how the various residents of the godsphere scale to one another.
The most powerful being in the DC universe is the customer, you know... the people who actually pay for DC content. If there was no customer, there would be no DC universe. It's sort of a meta-narrative cop-out to say this, but it's true.
The reason people claim that is because big comic book channels like Variant and Comic Drake had stated this in one of their videos. Since people feel like they can rely on them,this myth grows.
Really liking your DC vids my man! You should do a ranking of the most powerful beings in DC later down the line when you analyze all these beasts powers
I love DC but wish they'd put out some lorebooks Star Wars style; filled with trivia and thoroughly explained things. I wanna know what happened to the Black Racer before and after Willy Walker (Hehehe, Walker). Also... Blight? You met my boy Antagon? What was I talking about... Oh yeah great vid man!
I stopped seeing the presence as all-powerful when the weakening monitor Rox Ogama implied that he wounded the presence in final crisis. Not surprisingly, there was more evidence from previous tie in issues that proved he was actually hurt, if not dead.
I remember a lot of people denying that scan and saying that it was Darkseid who died. That's strange for Darkseid to own the Pax Dei army, Spectre, and the Radiant.
@@imsobored124 Radiant explained in Final crisis Revelations that she and the spectre can only be killed if the presence (god) is dead...In the final issue of final crisis, we see the bodies of both the spectre and Radiant drained and possibly lifeless further confirming that it was the presence not Darkseid.
@@imsobored124 can you then explain why the Pax Dei army of angels were described as vengeful during the final battle? What were they avenging other than their fallen god? Yes, Mandrakk drained their powers... Which is essentially killing god's vengeance and mercy. The spectre is only the spectre because of his powers, without it, he's basically a dude wearing a cape.
@@imsobored124 "you assumed" no mate, that's not enough. Why didn't the angel's also help during other crisis? Mandrakk said he left the "dying god" not dead god. The presence could have survived the attack who knows? All we know is that he was left in such a state that aspects of him could be essentially killed. Also, Rox Ogama was banished and was weakening as a result. The lanterns were able to kill him because he was a lot more weaker than when he previously infected ultraman and the miracle machine also helped.
@@imsobored124 Grant Morrison always refers to the presence as "god" in all his stories except the context is different which in this case wasn't, as in the next panel mandrakk brags about draining the spectre and radiant (servants of God as he described) who by the way aren't agents of Darkseid but the presence. Radiant and spectre getting drained is more than enough proof if you consider the the statement the radiant made in final crisis revelations...it wasn't a random statement, it was supposed to lead up to that moment. About the army of angels, Think about it- why would the angel's be vengeful if they weren't affected by Mandrakk? Your argument of them randomly appearing to fight mandrakk while vengeful doesn't add up...at all!
I hate that claim and everything that those people use as "proof" is as bad as the "proof" that Sitama fans use to prove that he's Omnipotent and Limitless and can One punch everything in Fiction and reality. Same goes for Alien X but both are just as retarded.
@@gabrielhughes8221 I've debated against someone who legitimately thought that because Sitama is apparently limitless and can One punch Lucifer (Samael) Morningstar and that Samael is only Star Level and Sitama is Universe level.
Personally I quickly felt something wasn’t right about the Prescience being the most powerful thing ever in DC even before I stumbled into this video. Like there is that Overvoid, then the Prime-Monitor, as well as The Writer(?), then there is Mxy in World’s Funnest where the writers made him boundless or something like that. Then there was the Prescience stating that he did not create himself. And now that you mentioned more DC characters that surpass the Prescience, such as Mordu, I feel that the Prescience would not even make it in a top ten list.
Great points and generally love your channel but this times you came off as a bit biased my friend, maybe just in my perception though. As much as in the comments there are the edgy ones making fun about presence fanboys, so csn one notice how they are very similar in their hate for the character, coming off as a bit of comic book snobs at times. I think the presence isn't the most powerful entity in dc (until some writer makes it that way again at least) but some of the 'debunks' here were really interpretated after your own liking, like the default scaling of hekate just bc of that statement about the other gods who walked on earth, I doubt the presence was taken into consideration in that comic, other than that quite the informative video. Nice work
The Hecate being stronger than The Presence stuff is some of the most blatant scaling I presented here dude. There are like 6 different pieces of strong evidence all pointing towards it. I went over most of it towards the end of my Mordru video. Like you understand that The Presence was born from the collective unconscious/the dreaming right? I proved that several times over in this video a lone. Because the collective unconscious is just ONE PART of Hecate's being. The Presence was literally born from a small part of Hecate. But yeah dude I'm totally being biased right, despite her being repeatedly stated to be above him and despite The Presence needing to create Eclipso to siphon and limit her powers slightly because otherwise she would be unstoppable. Not to mention that the coming of the Upside Downman (who is equal to Hecate) was literally said to be worse than the coming of the Great Darkness the first time and that was something that The Presence was heavily rivalled by and may even have died against if not for Swamp Thing. You can't use this whole author intent thing, you don't know the authors intent, you cannot possibly ever know the authors intent. Once the comic exists it exists separately from the author and anything that happens in it is open to deconstruction. Also for the record The Presence was literally directly mentioned in this comic, he was trying to make an alliance with Hell against the Otherkind, implying he can't defeat them on his own lol. So there goes your random head canon theory that the statements don't include The Presence.
@@WebCamParrot I think Doctor Fate is also beyond the presence too because he is above the likes of Arion who is one of the Lords of order and he was able do defeat the The Darkworld which is the Great Darkness. And another is that he was able to do combat with Mordru on various times who is also beyond The Presence too. And lastly he was able to destroy the Sphere of gods which is something that is beyond the presence too. All these feats make even Classic Strange seem weak.
Nabu has some some outer scans but Arion is mostly weak when he appears as his magic source keep changing. Arion went from using the darkworld to the sun to equipment like helmet of fate that give power. Arion might be the strongest when utilising darkworld and that's why Merlin who is a rival of mordru is currently using Arion to steal the power of the great darkness.@@itzthedapperlionyt4332
@Scorpinok300 one above all is NOT the writer. He's a character in marvel. There was only one time that he was portrayed as jack Kirby. When f4 traveled to heaven but still heaven in marvel is really obscure since we know there is also a heaven that was banished from world tree by odin
With how many writers work on something like the DC universe, it’s pretty much impossible to have a single all powerful god. Someone like the presence could be created by a writer to be the true god, but then someone else can come along and add more lore that makes him lesser to others. Just about anyone you point to as being the supreme omnipotent being has had someone contest or contradict them at some point.
9:26 you could argue when lucifer said the dark presence wasnt his father he was being metaphorical, but when confronted by Gabriel Lucifer went on to say he didnt kill the presence, if the presence were dead he would know, especially if he were the one to do it. the dark presence lucifer chopped up wasnt the real deal, he also called the presence omnipotent and said anything Gabriel THINKS happened was just a part of his plan. they literally could not be any more in your face about that not being the presence. The presence has been confirmed by some authors to be the overvoid (if you want to ignore word of god statements that's completely fair). On the page when the specter becomes the oversoul he still calls god supreme (obviously referring to the presence as that's the only person the specter calls god.) 14:04 the collective unconscious is not above the presence, even if you want to say its what hes referring to in that panel (which i highly doubt, im pretty sure its literally just a meta joke about the artists of DC), he only says it "shaped" him, not created him. its been shown when perpetua is given energies from the source to create the multiverse the collective unconscious is just one of the powers gifted, and given that the source is a part of the presence or vice versa (i dont really care either way) it would make the collective a power granted by the presence. What he likely means when he says it shaped him (assuming he's referring to the collective) is people wanted to believe in a god so the light (the presence) was shaped into a god by the collective, this would also tie into the eclipso "god is dead" panel. we're also shown the different forms of lucifer and one of them if the hand of the great darkness, when asked about it the author confirmed the great darkness is an aspect of lucifer. you can argue against twitter confirmations all day but that's literally on the page.
Much of this comment is really nitpicking stuff. First of Lucifers conversation with Gabriel is prior to him investigating anything and knowing what actually goes on and just makes assumptions based on Gabriel telling him that God is dead and Lucifer was correct about The Presence planning for Gabriel to stab him and his "death" but non of that implies that it is not the real Presence everyone calls him God/Yahweh/The Presence anything else is headcanon. Trying to use his omnipotence statements as counter evidence doesn´t work either since the comic clarifies that these omni terms aren´t literal once by Elaine admitting so herself and by the statement that the void is beyond the omniscience of The Presence and if one wher eto use this exact argument for a character like Darksied everyone would laugh (rightfully so) WOG is really useless when the Comics contradict it Overovid>Presence Likewise trying to say that shaped is not synonymus with created in that Lucifer 2000 panel is just straight up coping. The Presence claims that nobody is his own maker/creator and Lucifer replies that The Presence is his own maker and The Presence replies that this ain´t true and that he was shaped by external forces. So unless you think The Presence is retarded asf and strawmanned Lucifers whole point he is saying he was created. There also plenty of other instances where this idea is reinforced. Perpetua is above the cu of the multiverse but as was shown multiple times there are lesser versions and aspects of the cu like the dreaming and the cu in it´s truest state goes beyond Perpetua. Maybe go less of what a random twitter statement says and go off what is actually on the page like you preach, the scan says that these are "possible versions" of Lucifer not aspects these are things he could have been or will be at some point. The great evil beast is specifically not Lucifer. Cain says it is no fallen angel, Zatara says it is far greater thna Satan and Lucifer himself talks about it as a distinct entity, and the geb itself says to Spectre that the voice of gods doens´t talk through him which makes no sense ogf it was an aspect of Lucifer who is a creation of The Presence.
@@Dreamcaster06 "Lucifer says word for word "That's ridiculous. if he were dead, i'd know. And i'd definitely know if i were the one who did it. Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. Whatever HAPPENED, whatever you THINK happened, it was a part of his design, that old bastard never does anything without a plan." There's nothing contradicting the Overvoid being a part of the Presence. Lucifer is the great darkness Michael is the Source Presence is the Over-void and all 5 are his creations. Im not arguing shaped isnt synonymous with created, im saying it doesnt have to be, and i believe that statement was actually referring to the DC artists, not the collective. I simply presented an explanation for IF you want to believe its the collective he's talking about. It's literally stated on the page (Lucifer 2018 issues #10) "can you not feel your AVATARS at your shoulder? All those Lucifers you HAVE BEEN and COULD BE" considering the great darkness already exists, its fair to say it doesnt fit into the "could be" category and rather fits into the "Have been" category. Unless you think she's saying the great darkness could retroactively become an avatar of lucifer, which 1, makes absolutely 0 sense, and 2 would still mean Lucifer is capable of overpowering the great darkness. but like it said, it obviously fits into the "Has been an avatar" category. the way i see it, the source is Michael because spectre kind of straight up said so, and mandrakk said the power of the source is the power of the presence (Michael is the power of the presence) and the darkness is Lucifer because its straight up stated on page and by an author "this is an avatar of Lucifer" Making Michael and Lucifer the hands of darkness and light that fought before creation began
@@TFF_Onida Almost nothing here adreses anything I said it´s not enganging with any of the counter examples etc. That was at the beginning of the run and like I said what Lucifer says here is correct since The Presence wanted Gabriel to stab him, doens´t adress my point lol Overovid didn´t know what creation is The Presence does and Michael being the source was never stated. I already gave an argument why shaped has to mean created and this aslo doesn´t adress any of the other examples that show cu>Presence Lucifer becoming something that looks like the great darkness doens´t mean he overpowered it what also in that sma estory it is stated that Lucifer came to be in the darkness so it preceded him and I offered many more reasons why it can´t be the same entity as Lucifer which you like so much I said just ignored. Spectre said the uni friedn is perhaps an aspect of Michael that isn´t the source. Cronos says that a portion of the godwave is the power of The Presence which is just referring to the god waves power that birthed all the gods it has nothing to do with Michael.
@@Dreamcaster06 Webcamparrot said the presence isnt the strongest and used Lucifer beating him as a point. i said Lucifer, by his own admission cant beat the presence, he said the presence is more powerful than him (calls him omnipotent) and says the dark god thing isnt the presence to begin with, it just has "some of him in there" Over-void knew what creation was, it didnt know what the FLAW was. The FLAW was perpetua's multiverse which was corrupted, as pointed out by the hands. If you want to believe "shaped" is referring to "created' then feel free to do so, but i'd argue if he's saying he was created he'd be referring to the artists of DC not the CU. As for addressing the CU > Presence thing, i said the CU is just another power gifted to perpetua by the source in order to create the multiverse hence why the CU is beyond perpetua, its not her power it's of the source which is beyond beyond perpetua. Presence >> Source >> CU He didnt "become something that looks like the great darkness" the great darkness was his avatar. as stated ON THE PAGE and by the WRITER. It straight up says so, if you dont think it makes sense that's your own business but that's what it says on the page. let me repeat: "can you not feel your AVATARS at your shoulder? All those Lucifers you HAVE BEEN and COULD BE" considering the great darkness already exists, its fair to say it doesnt fit into the "could be" category and rather fits into the "Have been" category. Specter says the Flaming hand is Michael or one of the other arch angels, when green lantern John stewert talked to the source itself, the source says, he IS the flaming, and mandrakk says the power of the source is the power of the presence, and michael is the power of the presence so the source is the flaming hand which is either Michael or the presence.
@@TFF_Onida Parrot used the Lucifer as a point to say The Presence isn´t supreme at no point was he saying Luicfer>Presence. And that you are not my father statement is clearly metaphorical literally everyone at every other point calls him The Presence. Great more head canonm Mandrak says in unexpexted trhat he entered the flaw before it became the tripitch multiverse. So this flaw stuff was before Perpetua was a thing. Overvoid had no idea what the muiltiverse was the source activly sends hands to create stuff. The Presence is not beyond the source and as I said what Perpetua was given is just a lesser form of the cu still not adressing the many showings of the cu being beyond The Presence. The comic never says the word great darkness and idk why you are ignoring all the reasons I gavew why he can´t be the great darkness like how desperat can one be to force his own headcanon into the comic. The source says it is a manifestation of him lol not that it is the hand. Also you just repeating the Cronos argument and even still saying Mandrak after I corredted you just shows how ignorant you are. I feel like arguing with you is pointless all you do is repeat yourself add more head canon and ignore most of my points don´t you feel stupid forcing your inconsistent fanfictions into the comic?
Dude great informative video as well and really love your content.U explain them so properly with their exact comic panels to back your words.Great Work as well as.Would be very hyped if their was a video on the dreaming as well as exploring the strongest beings in marvel too.Keep up the great work and have a great day.Thanks as all was for making my day great with your videos.
(7:16) As an SCP fan, I can't help but note the last dichotomy Grant brings up in that statement. *Is* and *Isn't* I've got nothing else beyond that, just that I think it's funny.
3 years later. thank you for making this video, I always thought the presence was DCs true god but seeing this I am grateful you have so much knowledge on this topic.
@@micahbernard2532 that's the wonder of it You didn't. And so I did what I do. Isn't it a wonder how wrong you can do, and the best thing you can do to fend off your irk is to put yourself in a position where you have power But you don't , you have never have any powers I crept into your mind that easily, I invaded it, I've offended the peace of your mind and assaulted it, by just a question How weak are you, it's funny, I have plenty of time to lose so I'll lose it on some other stuffs Good bye, And you're still wrong, fool.
DC's god isn't the most powerful, Spawn's God wasn't the most powerful. Poor God. oh well at least both have endless numbers of people ignoring the evidence and claiming their at the top (even though for DC you have everything in this video and more and for Spawn a being more powerful appears in the same story where Spawn beats god because that is the being that gives Spawn the power to do it)
Hello WebcamParrot can you do Strange Visitor Superman, Red death Flash, God Flash, God Green Lantern, Volthoom, Perpetua, Batman who laughs, Mother Night/Father Time, Endless members, Imperiex, Krona, High Father, Phantom Stranger, John Constitine, Raven, Rama Kushna, The Word, CAS, Swamp Thing, Takion, Starbreaker, The Merciless, Barbatos, Ellain Balocc, Micheal, Ares, Bat-Mite, Black Racer, Captain Adom Moniter, Decreator, Doctor Fate, Zitanna, Kismet, Empty Hand, The Infinite Man, etc................
@@gabrielhughes8221 I think they're above greater beings, Oblivion claimed to be there before creation itself, and that he'll be there after creation, when he claims everything
@@tanyasaffell4943 Right yeah I'd remember. For right on both side of DC and Marvel comics never make it clear enough who is the Superior God. But by this their cant say because of the Comic Code they go by because of Religious beliefs. That's why On DC comics publishers God go by many names , titles and different aspects of God or gods. the first appearance of "The Voice" was in the 1940 origin of the Spectre - but they have traditionally used surrogate concepts and names rather than refer to the Abrahamic deity directly. The comics are published under the Comics Code, a set of ethical guidelines drawn up in the 1950s in reaction to anti-comic book hysteria. The Code does not explicitly refer to God, but does say that "ridicule or attack on any religious or racial group is never permissible."[2]Later revisions of the Code are phrased in terms of respecting religious beliefs and religious institutions, which may account for the comics' hesitancy when dealing with God. The lack of a central doctrine means that multiple "aspects" of God have been introduced by different writers. So it stated that in DC comics publishers but it also go out to Marvel as well.
sounds like you just don't like The presence or what he represents. Also you have to decide which presence the first one left and Elaine Belloc became the next one. First one is supreme and infinite and eternal.
Coriel Gaming Its not that he doesn’t like the Presence, he doesn’t like the misconception wank The Presence gets. The first one, which he mentions in the video, while he is infinite and eternal, was made by the dreaming and formed by the Collective Unconscious as said in the video.
@@van8510Well isn’t that the case with everything else? The dreaming always existed ever since the first being or entity. The presence is just one of trillions dreamed up.
So I'm a casual DC fan so forgive me if this is kind of a stupid question. So the Presence is basically God as we know him, but he is not the creator of all things and is beneath various other beings outside the Source?
Soo, I have a few questions to ask: First, what comics are these from and what issue?I just want to read the comics cause I haven’t even seen any reference to the Presence in any DC comics but only in Vertigo Comics. 13:52 , 15:39 , and 17:50 Second, clarify me if I’m wrong but you claimed that the Hand, the Voice, and the Presence are not the part of a grand being which I assume is God. But then you said that God went on a ramble saying that he IS the Presence so wouldn’t you be contradicting your statement? Third, so how would Prayala’s origin fit with the history of Perpetua? Would her being the Darkness before Creation in terms of within the DC Multiverse was created or rebooted or Creation has in before the Source was created? Other than that I think you view of the Source and the Overvoid really cleared things up for me lol
Pralaya is basically dc’s version of oblivion, meaning she is only the embodiment of the void before and after creation so she isn’t as powerful as the presence but is just the personification of the end of everything
That's the jazz what happened befor Lucy deside to fly out into the void. The convo with the presence...I just can't remember the convo for the life of me
I absolutely love all of your content! Please never stop! Preach the Truth brother! I kinda would like some more marvel characters though. Anyway another great video
Nah, Death doesn’t necessarily have power over anyone she claims, she’s just there for them when they die. Dream even says in Sandman that Lucifer and the Presence are the most powerful beings he’s aware of, and since Death is his sister, she would obviously be included in that as well.
@@TheIdiotNamedJoe then explain when the presence was killed by gabriel, and when he said himself that he is neither the supreme being and there are some above him and luci knows that, and when the writer said that the presence was shape by an external force which is all the beings that exist by worshipping and imagining he is real like DREAM and even the writer said that The Presence was Created by Dream of all humanity means Morpheus created The Presence since he is the Dream Itself
@@TheIdiotNamedJoe read all the articles the DC Writers said about The Presence being shape by External Force(which was said is all the Dreamers all humanity who Worship something it doesn't exist and this belief created The Presence himself which said by the writer himself that The Presence was shaped through the Dream of External Forces means that even the Presence is bound to the siblings known as Death Destiny Dream Desire Delerium Despair Destruction Because The Presence was shown to be created by Dream of believers And died in the hand of Gabriel and even he stated himself that Luci has the power to kill him means he is bound to Dream and Death. And Destiny is to be said know all that things that happen and never happen like The Watchers so means that he has the power to sees The Presence Destiny because even The Presence himself stated "true i am eternal but even i was SHAPE BY EXTERNAL BEINGS, you know who they are"
Thanks for this, it all makes sense and was very interesting. Also good to here this stuff, I thought he was the all powerful being only below the writer, seems I was wrong
Good video. Please take these points into consideration. I think the fact that the Presence says "shaped by forces external" implies that that shaped his personality. It's possible that he still existed but the minds of humans shaped him into a form that we understand. If god was just a product of the dreaming than Morpheus would be considered more powerful, but he says that he's weaker than lucifer. As for your point about the Upside Down Man and how he is a more powerful aspect of the great darkness i think the fact that the light and the darkness are considered equals implies that the light could have an aspect that is just as powerful. You also say that if a creature was able to absorb the Presence power than it would be more powerful. By that logic Parasite should be more powerful than Superman. I think it's useful to consider that every character has poor matchups. Metallow is weaker than superman but since he uses kryptonite he could win against him. Many people have good matchups with the Presence but he is still considered one of the most powerful. I think considering almost every character was created by the Presence, and usually the hero's win, than technically the Presence wins. I also think retcon corps retcons are apart of the The Plan. The Presence transcends time and he would probably realize that the retcons would happen. Same with Constantine and magic. If all magic could escape the plan than what would be the point of the plan? Destiny of the endless can see events in the future even when they are shaped by magic. The reason why comics explicitly state that things aren't in the plan is because everything else is. Lex luthor isn't outside of time and space and he didn't create everything so his plans are not considered as valid. Your smart but the Presence is a character that you should give the benefit of the doubt. I think that's the point of his character. He's not the strongest though, you've convinced me of that. Please consider my arguments and maybe I can convince you.
The Presence is very explicitly having a conversation with Lucifer about how no one can be their own maker. Lucifer even specifically says that "he seems to be doing ok" and The Presence literally tells him "No" and then explains how he was created by forces external to him. I DID cover this in the video extremely explicitly. pay more attention. Also Morpheus isn't even as strong as the Dreaming so I don't see how that affects anything. It wasn't necessarily The Dreaming either as I also explained in the video it's more likely to be The Collective Unconscious which the Dreaming is a small part of. The small fraction of The Great Darkness is the only part of The Great Darkness that was even remotely implied to be "equal" to the light. The full real Great Darkness is far beyond that. If Parasite literally killed Superman and absorbed all of his power yes he would be stronger than Superman lol. That has never happened though. Even if this being isn't The Presence he still clearly has all of his power and would literally just be stronger than him but we know it definitely is The Presence anyway so it's irrelevant. Heroes aren't created by The Presence, they were created by Ahl the God of Superheroes a far more powerful being. And it's impossible for Ret Con corporation to be inside the plan as I explained because they are outside the Overvoid and we know that even stuff just past the source is beyond The Plan let alone something completely outside of the Overvoid. Also Ret Con Corporation are also outside time lol to a far greater extent than The Presence is actually. What you are basically asking me to do is give The Presence special treatment I wouldn't give ANY other character because your baseless head canon says I should? No I wont be doing that lol. Also if you think I nitpicked ANYTHING in this extremely in-depth video you should probably be concerned about brain damage.
@@WebCamParrot I believe the word the Presence used was "shaped" not created. Maybe the parasite was a bad example. Would you say Rouge from marvel is more powerful than hulk if she's able to absorb his powers? And if your saying that a battle with a mind controlled character actually counts than you don't seem to know how comic battles work. Yes heros were created by the presents. Batman is made out of adams. The Presence made adems. Ahl is the god of the superhero concept. Retcon corp is outside of the Overvoid but its decisions that go into creation would be apart of the plan. Since the Presence is outside of time than he would know that they would be making those decisions and would have planned accordingly. I'm not asking you to give the Presence special treatment im just saying that you seem to be giving everyone else the benefit of the doubt and not him. When a character is said to be one of the most powerful it may be wise to assume that he is. The voice of god and god are two different things. When they said "the most powerful god to walk the earth" they were referring to lowercase-"g". When zeus calls himself king of the gods, he isn't saying he's king of the presence. In the new gods when they said the "old gods" died in a war, they weren't referring to the presence. There has always been a distinction between Pandimensional beings like the Presence Uppercase-"G" and gods like zeus. Morpheus said he was older than the gods but was created by the Presence. I tried talking to you in a polite way. Since you seem to be so sensitive about this i don't think there is a way to talk to you about this without you getting peeved. Putting "lol" at the end of every paragraph seems passive aggressive. I'm actually sad now because i really enjoyed your videos but you said i had brain damage so now I need to unsubscribe.
Yes The Presence used the word "shaped" and in the context of the actual conversation he was talking about his MAKER. As I have now told you both in the video and here. If Rogue is able to kill and absorb all of Hulks powers yes she would be stronger than him. She literally has all of his powers plus her own! How could she not be stronger than him. Ahl is explicitly the creator of Superheroes not The Presence. The Presence didn't even create humans, humans created The Presence as I proved several times over. It doesn't matter if The Presence knows what Ret con corporation is or what they are doing (he doesn't know anything about them for the record) he wouldn't be able to do anything about it anyway plan or otherwise. Just so you know Ret con corporation creates every single story written on the overvoid including The Presence and can erase everything on it including The Presence. So no The Plan does not include their actions, The Presence isn't even aware of them he's just a fictional character to Ret con. I'm not giving ANYONE the benefit of the doubt. Everything I said is based on what actually happens in the comics and I proved as much. The Presence is extremely powerful, he's just not the supreme being. I literally proved IN THE VIDEO several times that The Voice of God and God are different names for the exact same being. The Presence literally said himself more than once that they are. Also The Presence isn't an old god so completely inept analogy. Dream of the Endless is older than The Presence. As I explained in the video The Presence was retroactively brought into existence.On top of this we know that the endless exist in other creations too and there are creations older than the Presence like the one the Jin En Mok come from. Yes and The Presence is a "god" lower case g. He's not an old god though. You are also pulling that Zeus statement out of your ass and even if it exists there is obvious context to it. The only context to the Constantine and Nabu statements is that we have several other pieces of evidence to confirm that The Presence is weaker and that he was clearly involved in the event and Constantine and Nabu BOTH know that he has been on earth before. I'm not inclined to be polite when you call hours of my own meticulous research "biased" based on nothing and after presenting a far more biased account that I ever did. Especially after I go to great lengths to prove everything I am saying with mountains and mountains of evidence. The "lol" wasn't intended to be passive aggressive, it was intended to be outright socially aggressive. I am laughing at your suggestion because it is laughable lol. It was Constantine and Nabu actually and Constantine is very very aware of how strong The Presence is. They have interacted several times. If nothing suggests the statement is wrong it's not wrong and actually there are several things suggesting it is true so. Please do unsubscribe if this is the dishonest attitude you are going to take with my videos in the future. I don't want you here.
"Whatever you are, you may have some of him in you. Perhaps you stole his power as you stole mine, but you are not my father." that sounds super direct and not metaphorical at all
It is metaphorical lol, he's talking about how The Presence has begun to act like a tyrant and dominator of creation, something that Lucifer had never seen in him prior to his change. It's very similar to the cliche "I don't know who you are but you are not my father" line that get thrown around a ton in fiction. That's all it is. Trying to say it's just Lucifer being an idiot and thinking it's not The Presence when he knows that it is and we are directly shown that it is kind of robs all of the narrative weight from the scene and just makes it really really dumb too.
Idk if you’re informed on god of war but I think it’d be dope to see you do a video on Kratos and powerscale him since some people tend to believe he’s only town level but I fw your content
I never heard of the mattius guy. But sounds like he doesn't give a fuck about story or continuity at face value. Like a guy that just wants to soapbox in his comics.
Nah if anything Dematteis is doing the opposite of that. People ask him for his opinion and he gives it but then qualifies it by saying that it's just his interpretation not the ONLY interpretation. He's basically saying the story comes first.
Lol Presence is DC's GOD and supreme being but even it says that its onlt DC's supreme being and he literally destroys the fouth wall where he says he himself shaped by EXTERNAL forces, which in this concept is US, i mean comic readers in real world, think about it, we believe in DC and pay for it go forward, we believe its writers and animators to put new storys characters and worlds for it flourish into new multiverses as the latest one we call DCEU, Carey literally says it was humans who shaped The Presence he just doesnt say which humans. So Presence is DC's god as long as we believe it is to be and DC's writers may create a new one a stronger one as long as we pay for DC to continue.
The Dematteis Justice League from the 80s is a pretty good place to start when it comes to the JL if you want the more classic League stuff. JLD Vol 1 is the only real place to start when it comes to the Justice League Dark and if you want something more modern for the regular Justice LEague the current Scott Snyder run is great. There are a ton of good Justice League comics though, the Grant Morrison stuff isn't bad either.
The Presence is definitely one of the most powerful beings in DC, but I consider him to be nigh omnipotent alongside Lucifer Morningstar and the Great Evil Beast. The Over void on the other hand is full omnipotent and views the megaverse/omniverse in DC as a speck of dust.
You mentioned The Source was an aspect of Michael or vice-versa. They are both described as limitless supplies of energy, something which I've always found interesting, but couldn't find any evidence supporting. Do you have any scans proving that to be true? Also, who's hand do you think is the Unseen Hand pulling together Connective Energies from The Source for Perpetua and The Hands in "At Multiverse's End"? It clearly wasn't Perpetua's, so, any theories? Also, I don't think The Presence was made from beliefs, simply because he differs in almost every aspect from the believed Judo-Christian God for him to be actually be shaped by those beliefs. I mean, for one, your average Christian wouldn't imagine Lucifer as a handsome blonde guy, so how could he be shaped from beliefs if he's not what people believe him to be?
Nope we use tiering system not the presence like tier 1A -outerversal Tier 1b- hyperversal Tier 1c- complex multiversal Tier 2A multiversal+ Tier 2b multiversal Tier 2c low multiversal and also superman fanboys say the same thing about superman and guess what Cosmic armor and milkman man are beyond the presence.
It's very simple actually. The reason people believe that the Presence and the Darkness merged, is because of the yin yang ☯️ symbolism in the corner panels. 3:48 -3:59. Cause people have this idea of yin yang meaning opposites are fused together. Joined at the Hip. It's what some people view the Force as being inherently neutral.
I think they could still retcon some stuff and say that The Presence is just like an avatar of the true god and that all the statements from other beings who think they're more powerful, are just them being ill-informed. Though I think Pralaya is probably the true omni, then again Mother Night is similar.
i just finished reading justice league dark #27 and im dissapointed , you ignored half the story about blight."it was all part of the presences plan after all to create a spirit of redemption" hohoho
The black soil is rich in foul decay, but glorious life springs from it. No matter how dazzling the flourishes of life, in the end all decays to black humis. Perhaps evil is the humis formed in virtue's own decay, and within this humis does virtue grow its greatest strengths.
"so he is fighting himself for no reason and then merges with hell to fight himself" makes as much sense as actual Christianity (sorry if that's too edgy but that joke was basically free) otherwise pretty much every point is perfect
Well being that Lucifer broke the presence's will and tore a page out of the book of Destiny I guess that kind of implies he is not all powerful or at the very least isn't omniscient.. but the point at the beginning of this video is misleading because that great darkness is called the Great Evil Beast and is a part of the presence.. it's his dark half basically.. they're two sides of the same coin essentially.
What does that have to do with anything. There are higher and lower infinities. The Great Darkness just isn't a part of The Presence and never has been.
It was The Presence. Gabriel stabbed him and then he came back corrupted. The Angels literally saw him turning into that being. When Lucifer was saying that it was not his father, he was not being literal.
@@marvinmoore2080 Even if you want to believe that, Lucifer stated that the dude literally stole Presence's power making him more powerful than The Presence.
So the existence of the Presence is similar to that of Mab from the series "Merlin" wherein the magicfolks will not exist if the people will no longer believe in them.
I stopped overhyping a character cause it's just stupid but I don't overhype the presence cause it seems kinda like something to start drama and how some fanboys says it's the pressence plan when forgetting he's a fictional character and the joke ain't funny. Just my opinion tho
It doesn't help that people in generally have a hard time keeping things separate. Meaning lets say a person personal faith starts clouding their judgement into thinking a fictional character that uses some of the same names and some of the same stories. As if its all the same thing, but its human nature to try and combine things and make them simpler to comprehend.
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
I realise I came across a little more intense or bothered in this video than I really am. Obviously I'm just talking about a comic book character and it's all for fun in the end.
People have been asking me to emote or engage more during my videos and this was my attempt to do that. Sorry if it comes across as weird as a result.
If you are thinking about purchasing comics in the future consider using my affiliate marketing link here to help support the channel: amzn.to/2Vxyn5N
WebCamParrot YESSS. I waited for this video for so long. Ever since your Mordru video
Please do a wonder woman video
I'd want to ask, why did you assume that the Presence counted as one of the gods that has walked the Earth?
I'd actually ask one thing: Has the Presence ever actually... Walked on the Earth?
I'm genuinely not sure.
He's walked the Earth several times particularly in the New 52 Phantom Stranger. I actually referenced that comic in this video.
It's not an assumption to say that a being constantly referred to as a god is a god lol.
@@WebCamParrot
Webcam if your interested in doing
Martian manhunter or wonder woman
Tell me
Is this like a personal attack or something
Aizen: "Hi grandfather! Is this all still part of the plan?"
No its attacking the people how over Hipes you as if you were god
🤣
@@paradoxglitch1108 The Presence is the DC equivalent to the Abrahamic God so...
@@Cabolt44 did you watch the video
I think a lot of people miss the point of the Lucifer and presence story. The presence tells lucifer he had a similar relationship with his creator. Part of it was making your own choices and to ascend past your beginnings.
That never happened.
I read comics every now and then, I like DC comics stuff as much as the next guy, but never bothered looking into all this, just reading those as stories.
But I really like your approach, your research is much appreciated, sat through the whole video without pausing or skipping, really well done.
There is also one character from Sandman series that predated DC multiverse. His name is Silk or something like that.
The Silkman yeah. The Jin En Mok predate The Presence as well.
Silk Man also said iirc that there will be other creations and other makers which should further indicate that The Presence isn't supreme or omnipotent (Imo there isn't omnipotence in fiction, but whatever).
The same character lucifer destroyed in Nirvana
@@WebCamParrot Plus Lucifer created his own multiverse. Does that mean he is basically new Presence in his multiverse?
@@kubahavlicek1933 He needed Michael's death in order to create his own Multiverse iirc. But yeah, he's basically The Presence there.
Behind every godlike man is an abysmal horror of a woman.
🤣🍻
Don't you trash my girl Pralaya; she's utterly, terrifyingly beautiful. 😍
Since you mentioned in the video you wanted to know if you changed anyone's mind with this, I want to say you actually did with me. I had really enjoyed your Mordru video but had been a little skepetical about the veracity of some of the scaling with The Presence because I had always thought it was supposed to be this invincible, all knowing, all powerful being in DC cosmology.
I think the whole "look at the argument holistically" was a really good point to put in there. I had actually felt like nitpicking the blight example because till now I had interpretted as a empty boast considering the angel he had said it too was claiming the opposite if I recall, but considering the context, the weight of other super clear examples of The Prescence being fallible from other comics, and the implications of his origin what the Blight said made perfect sense.
Would it be possible for you to make a video ranking the strongest characters published in DC? I have seen your cosmology video but I would love a more in depth scope of the residents of these realms especially how the various residents of the godsphere scale to one another.
Trigon
@@yourlifetrulymatters ?
@@achimpanzee9210 Trigon
@@RyanGFC mind proving it?
@@achimpanzee9210 Prove what? I was just saying what the first guy said.
Top 5 most powerful DC characters?
number 5 the presence
@Gasper Vidovic Damn bro he got you on the one
@Ankit Bhattacharya The Writer? Hahahahah.
@@mnicols-4640 the writer is actually a character
@Ankit Bhattacharya hatt chutiya.
Please make a video on
The Great Evil Beast and Monitor Dax Novu
The most powerful being in the DC universe is the customer, you know... the people who actually pay for DC content. If there was no customer, there would be no DC universe. It's sort of a meta-narrative cop-out to say this, but it's true.
Facts lol
Really love your videos because you really know about the topics your talking about
The reason people claim that is because big comic book channels like Variant and Comic Drake had stated this in one of their videos. Since people feel like they can rely on them,this myth grows.
Really liking your DC vids my man! You should do a ranking of the most powerful beings in DC later down the line when you analyze all these beasts powers
I love DC but wish they'd put out some lorebooks Star Wars style; filled with trivia and thoroughly explained things. I wanna know what happened to the Black Racer before and after Willy Walker (Hehehe, Walker). Also... Blight? You met my boy Antagon? What was I talking about... Oh yeah great vid man!
There is one it’s called all you need to know about DC
I stopped seeing the presence as all-powerful when the weakening monitor Rox Ogama implied that he wounded the presence in final crisis. Not surprisingly, there was more evidence from previous tie in issues that proved he was actually hurt, if not dead.
I remember a lot of people denying that scan and saying that it was Darkseid who died. That's strange for Darkseid to own the Pax Dei army, Spectre, and the Radiant.
@@imsobored124 Radiant explained in Final crisis Revelations that she and the spectre can only be killed if the presence (god) is dead...In the final issue of final crisis, we see the bodies of both the spectre and Radiant drained and possibly lifeless further confirming that it was the presence not Darkseid.
@@imsobored124 can you then explain why the Pax Dei army of angels were described as vengeful during the final battle? What were they avenging other than their fallen god? Yes, Mandrakk drained their powers... Which is essentially killing god's vengeance and mercy. The spectre is only the spectre because of his powers, without it, he's basically a dude wearing a cape.
@@imsobored124 "you assumed" no mate, that's not enough. Why didn't the angel's also help during other crisis? Mandrakk said he left the "dying god" not dead god. The presence could have survived the attack who knows? All we know is that he was left in such a state that aspects of him could be essentially killed. Also, Rox Ogama was banished and was weakening as a result. The lanterns were able to kill him because he was a lot more weaker than when he previously infected ultraman and the miracle machine also helped.
@@imsobored124 Grant Morrison always refers to the presence as "god" in all his stories except the context is different which in this case wasn't, as in the next panel mandrakk brags about draining the spectre and radiant (servants of God as he described) who by the way aren't agents of Darkseid but the presence. Radiant and spectre getting drained is more than enough proof if you consider the the statement the radiant made in final crisis revelations...it wasn't a random statement, it was supposed to lead up to that moment. About the army of angels, Think about it- why would the angel's be vengeful if they weren't affected by Mandrakk? Your argument of them randomly appearing to fight mandrakk while vengeful doesn't add up...at all!
Another great video
The claim that alien x is omnipotent is more pathetic
I hate that claim and everything that those people use as "proof" is as bad as the "proof" that Sitama fans use to prove that he's Omnipotent and Limitless and can One punch everything in Fiction and reality.
Same goes for Alien X but both are just as retarded.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki lol well what you say is so true.
@@gabrielhughes8221 I've debated against someone who legitimately thought that because Sitama is apparently limitless and can One punch Lucifer (Samael) Morningstar and that Samael is only Star Level and Sitama is Universe level.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki I'd believe that , yeah people like that always make Saitama something that he is not.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki no limits fallacy
Personally I quickly felt something wasn’t right about the Prescience being the most powerful thing ever in DC even before I stumbled into this video. Like there is that Overvoid, then the Prime-Monitor, as well as The Writer(?), then there is Mxy in World’s Funnest where the writers made him boundless or something like that. Then there was the Prescience stating that he did not create himself. And now that you mentioned more DC characters that surpass the Prescience, such as Mordu, I feel that the Prescience would not even make it in a top ten list.
He isnt
Great points and generally love your channel but this times you came off as a bit biased my friend, maybe just in my perception though. As much as in the comments there are the edgy ones making fun about presence fanboys, so csn one notice how they are very similar in their hate for the character, coming off as a bit of comic book snobs at times. I think the presence isn't the most powerful entity in dc (until some writer makes it that way again at least) but some of the 'debunks' here were really interpretated after your own liking, like the default scaling of hekate just bc of that statement about the other gods who walked on earth, I doubt the presence was taken into consideration in that comic, other than that quite the informative video. Nice work
The Hecate being stronger than The Presence stuff is some of the most blatant scaling I presented here dude. There are like 6 different pieces of strong evidence all pointing towards it. I went over most of it towards the end of my Mordru video.
Like you understand that The Presence was born from the collective unconscious/the dreaming right? I proved that several times over in this video a lone. Because the collective unconscious is just ONE PART of Hecate's being. The Presence was literally born from a small part of Hecate. But yeah dude I'm totally being biased right, despite her being repeatedly stated to be above him and despite The Presence needing to create Eclipso to siphon and limit her powers slightly because otherwise she would be unstoppable. Not to mention that the coming of the Upside Downman (who is equal to Hecate) was literally said to be worse than the coming of the Great Darkness the first time and that was something that The Presence was heavily rivalled by and may even have died against if not for Swamp Thing.
You can't use this whole author intent thing, you don't know the authors intent, you cannot possibly ever know the authors intent. Once the comic exists it exists separately from the author and anything that happens in it is open to deconstruction. Also for the record The Presence was literally directly mentioned in this comic, he was trying to make an alliance with Hell against the Otherkind, implying he can't defeat them on his own lol. So there goes your random head canon theory that the statements don't include The Presence.
@@WebCamParrot Why you gotta be a dick about it?
@@WebCamParrot I think Doctor Fate is also beyond the presence too because he is above the likes of Arion who is one of the Lords of order and he was able do defeat the The Darkworld which is the Great Darkness. And another is that he was able to do combat with Mordru on various times who is also beyond The Presence too. And lastly he was able to destroy the Sphere of gods which is something that is beyond the presence too. All these feats make even Classic Strange seem weak.
Nabu has some some outer scans but Arion is mostly weak when he appears as his magic source keep changing. Arion went from using the darkworld to the sun to equipment like helmet of fate that give power. Arion might be the strongest when utilising darkworld and that's why Merlin who is a rival of mordru is currently using Arion to steal the power of the great darkness.@@itzthedapperlionyt4332
He's still better then the one above all.
Are you sentient
Agreed
@Scorpinok300 one above all is NOT the writer. He's a character in marvel. There was only one time that he was portrayed as jack Kirby. When f4 traveled to heaven but still heaven in marvel is really obscure since we know there is also a heaven that was banished from world tree by odin
Perpetua is equal to TOAA!!!!
@Scorpinok300 toaa suffers the same situation like the presence
With how many writers work on something like the DC universe, it’s pretty much impossible to have a single all powerful god. Someone like the presence could be created by a writer to be the true god, but then someone else can come along and add more lore that makes him lesser to others. Just about anyone you point to as being the supreme omnipotent being has had someone contest or contradict them at some point.
It came from Variant Comics he had the most powerful DC character video a put The Presence on top but can we blame him for that
9:26 you could argue when lucifer said the dark presence wasnt his father he was being metaphorical, but
when confronted by Gabriel Lucifer went on to say he didnt kill the presence, if the presence were dead he would know, especially if he were the one to do it. the dark presence lucifer chopped up wasnt the real deal, he also called the presence omnipotent and said anything Gabriel THINKS happened was just a part of his plan. they literally could not be any more in your face about that not being the presence.
The presence has been confirmed by some authors to be the overvoid (if you want to ignore word of god statements that's completely fair).
On the page when the specter becomes the oversoul he still calls god supreme (obviously referring to the presence as that's the only person the specter calls god.)
14:04 the collective unconscious is not above the presence, even if you want to say its what hes referring to in that panel (which i highly doubt, im pretty sure its literally just a meta joke about the artists of DC), he only says it "shaped" him, not created him.
its been shown when perpetua is given energies from the source to create the multiverse the collective unconscious is just one of the powers gifted, and given that the source is a part of the presence or vice versa (i dont really care either way) it would make the collective a power granted by the presence. What he likely means when he says it shaped him (assuming he's referring to the collective) is people wanted to believe in a god so the light (the presence) was shaped into a god by the collective, this would also tie into the eclipso "god is dead" panel.
we're also shown the different forms of lucifer and one of them if the hand of the great darkness, when asked about it the author confirmed the great darkness is an aspect of lucifer. you can argue against twitter confirmations all day but that's literally on the page.
Much of this comment is really nitpicking stuff.
First of Lucifers conversation with Gabriel is prior to him investigating anything and knowing what actually goes on and just makes assumptions based on Gabriel telling him that God is dead and Lucifer was correct about The Presence planning for Gabriel to stab him and his "death" but non of that implies that it is not the real Presence everyone calls him God/Yahweh/The Presence anything else is headcanon. Trying to use his omnipotence statements as counter evidence doesn´t work either since the comic clarifies that these omni terms aren´t literal once by Elaine admitting so herself and by the statement that the void is beyond the omniscience of The Presence and if one wher eto use this exact argument for a character like Darksied everyone would laugh (rightfully so)
WOG is really useless when the Comics contradict it Overovid>Presence
Likewise trying to say that shaped is not synonymus with created in that Lucifer 2000 panel is just straight up coping. The Presence claims that nobody is his own maker/creator and Lucifer replies that The Presence is his own maker and The Presence replies that this ain´t true and that he was shaped by external forces. So unless you think The Presence is retarded asf and strawmanned Lucifers whole point he is saying he was created. There also plenty of other instances where this idea is reinforced. Perpetua is above the cu of the multiverse but as was shown multiple times there are lesser versions and aspects of the cu like the dreaming and the cu in it´s truest state goes beyond Perpetua.
Maybe go less of what a random twitter statement says and go off what is actually on the page like you preach, the scan says that these are "possible versions" of Lucifer not aspects these are things he could have been or will be at some point. The great evil beast is specifically not Lucifer. Cain says it is no fallen angel, Zatara says it is far greater thna Satan and Lucifer himself talks about it as a distinct entity, and the geb itself says to Spectre that the voice of gods doens´t talk through him which makes no sense ogf it was an aspect of Lucifer who is a creation of The Presence.
@@Dreamcaster06
"Lucifer says word for word "That's ridiculous. if he were dead, i'd know. And i'd definitely know if i were the one who did it. Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. Whatever HAPPENED, whatever you THINK happened, it was a part of his design, that old bastard never does anything without a plan."
There's nothing contradicting the Overvoid being a part of the Presence.
Lucifer is the great darkness Michael is the Source Presence is the Over-void and all 5 are his creations.
Im not arguing shaped isnt synonymous with created, im saying it doesnt have to be, and i believe that statement was actually referring to the DC artists, not the collective. I simply presented an explanation for IF you want to believe its the collective he's talking about.
It's literally stated on the page (Lucifer 2018 issues #10) "can you not feel your AVATARS at your shoulder? All those Lucifers you HAVE BEEN and COULD BE" considering the great darkness already exists, its fair to say it doesnt fit into the "could be" category and rather fits into the "Have been" category. Unless you think she's saying the great darkness could retroactively become an avatar of lucifer, which 1, makes absolutely 0 sense, and 2 would still mean Lucifer is capable of overpowering the great darkness. but like it said, it obviously fits into the "Has been an avatar" category.
the way i see it, the source is Michael because spectre kind of straight up said so, and mandrakk said the power of the source is the power of the presence (Michael is the power of the presence)
and the darkness is Lucifer because its straight up stated on page and by an author "this is an avatar of Lucifer"
Making Michael and Lucifer the hands of darkness and light that fought before creation began
@@TFF_Onida Almost nothing here adreses anything I said it´s not enganging with any of the counter examples etc.
That was at the beginning of the run and like I said what Lucifer says here is correct since The Presence wanted Gabriel to stab him, doens´t adress my point lol
Overovid didn´t know what creation is The Presence does and Michael being the source was never stated.
I already gave an argument why shaped has to mean created and this aslo doesn´t adress any of the other examples that show cu>Presence
Lucifer becoming something that looks like the great darkness doens´t mean he overpowered it what also in that sma estory it is stated that Lucifer came to be in the darkness so it preceded him and I offered many more reasons why it can´t be the same entity as Lucifer which you like so much I said just ignored.
Spectre said the uni friedn is perhaps an aspect of Michael that isn´t the source. Cronos says that a portion of the godwave is the power of The Presence which is just referring to the god waves power that birthed all the gods it has nothing to do with Michael.
@@Dreamcaster06
Webcamparrot said the presence isnt the strongest and used Lucifer beating him as a point. i said Lucifer, by his own admission cant beat the presence, he said the presence is more powerful than him (calls him omnipotent) and says the dark god thing isnt the presence to begin with, it just has "some of him in there"
Over-void knew what creation was, it didnt know what the FLAW was. The FLAW was perpetua's multiverse which was corrupted, as pointed out by the hands.
If you want to believe "shaped" is referring to "created' then feel free to do so, but i'd argue if he's saying he was created he'd be referring to the artists of DC not the CU.
As for addressing the CU > Presence thing, i said the CU is just another power gifted to perpetua by the source in order to create the multiverse hence why the CU is beyond perpetua, its not her power it's of the source which is beyond beyond perpetua. Presence >> Source >> CU
He didnt "become something that looks like the great darkness" the great darkness was his avatar. as stated ON THE PAGE and by the WRITER. It straight up says so, if you dont think it makes sense that's your own business but that's what it says on the page. let me repeat:
"can you not feel your AVATARS at your shoulder? All those Lucifers you HAVE BEEN and COULD BE" considering the great darkness already exists, its fair to say it doesnt fit into the "could be" category and rather fits into the "Have been" category.
Specter says the Flaming hand is Michael or one of the other arch angels, when green lantern John stewert talked to the source itself, the source says, he IS the flaming, and mandrakk says the power of the source is the power of the presence, and michael is the power of the presence so the source is the flaming hand which is either Michael or the presence.
@@TFF_Onida Parrot used the Lucifer as a point to say The Presence isn´t supreme at no point was he saying Luicfer>Presence. And that you are not my father statement is clearly metaphorical literally everyone at every other point calls him The Presence.
Great more head canonm Mandrak says in unexpexted trhat he entered the flaw before it became the tripitch multiverse. So this flaw stuff was before Perpetua was a thing. Overvoid had no idea what the muiltiverse was the source activly sends hands to create stuff.
The Presence is not beyond the source and as I said what Perpetua was given is just a lesser form of the cu still not adressing the many showings of the cu being beyond The Presence.
The comic never says the word great darkness and idk why you are ignoring all the reasons I gavew why he can´t be the great darkness like how desperat can one be to force his own headcanon into the comic.
The source says it is a manifestation of him lol not that it is the hand. Also you just repeating the Cronos argument and even still saying Mandrak after I corredted you just shows how ignorant you are.
I feel like arguing with you is pointless all you do is repeat yourself add more head canon and ignore most of my points don´t you feel stupid forcing your inconsistent fanfictions into the comic?
7:27 -"heres statement in full"
Proceeds to read last paragraph.
He does present the whole quote on screen so it is in full
Dude great informative video as well and really love your content.U explain them so properly with their exact comic panels to back your words.Great Work as well as.Would be very hyped if their was a video on the dreaming as well as exploring the strongest beings in marvel too.Keep up the great work and have a great day.Thanks as all was for making my day great with your videos.
On a scale of 1 to "I did not care for the Godfather" how hot is this take?
You know DC’s a “special” verse when it’s god isn’t even it’s most powerful character
LMAO. Facts though
Spawn's universe is the exact same way
Incredibly Warhammer40k is considered a stronger verse.
@@abdoul5176 Ah Papa Nurgle brewing up some new diseases and Slaanesh just keeps raping the Aeldari with spikes.
@@Dream-qy9ir Even Supernaturals God has an equally powerful sister.
(7:16) As an SCP fan, I can't help but note the last dichotomy Grant brings up in that statement. *Is* and *Isn't*
I've got nothing else beyond that, just that I think it's funny.
IS and IS NOT.
3 years later. thank you for making this video, I always thought the presence was DCs true god but seeing this I am grateful you have so much knowledge on this topic.
video is wrong tho
5 month later and you're just wrong lol, even on a metaphysical level
@@Peppers_mintus did I ask?
@@micahbernard2532 that's the wonder of it
You didn't. And so I did what I do. Isn't it a wonder how wrong you can do, and the best thing you can do to fend off your irk is to put yourself in a position where you have power
But you don't , you have never have any powers
I crept into your mind that easily, I invaded it, I've offended the peace of your mind and assaulted it, by just a question
How weak are you, it's funny, I have plenty of time to lose so I'll lose it on some other stuffs
Good bye,
And you're still wrong, fool.
@@Peppers_mintus what the fuck are you talking about I gave you one second of thought when I wrote that comment LMFAO.
The presence and the Great darkness is basically he one above all and the one below all
DC's god isn't the most powerful, Spawn's God wasn't the most powerful. Poor God. oh well at least both have endless numbers of people ignoring the evidence and claiming their at the top (even though for DC you have everything in this video and more and for Spawn a being more powerful appears in the same story where Spawn beats god because that is the being that gives Spawn the power to do it)
God is above and beyond everything.
The Presence and Spawn's god are not the same as God.
@@davidnewhart2533 I was making a joke about the hole point of this video, you can see what i'm referring to in it's title
@@davidnewhart2533 Yahweh isn’t above everything lol
Herecy
Burn the heretic
For the Presence!
Hello WebcamParrot can you do Strange Visitor Superman, Red death Flash, God Flash, God Green Lantern, Volthoom, Perpetua, Batman who laughs, Mother Night/Father Time, Endless members, Imperiex, Krona, High Father, Phantom Stranger, John Constitine, Raven, Rama Kushna, The Word, CAS, Swamp Thing, Takion, Starbreaker, The Merciless, Barbatos, Ellain Balocc, Micheal, Ares, Bat-Mite, Black Racer, Captain Adom Moniter, Decreator, Doctor Fate, Zitanna, Kismet, Empty Hand, The Infinite Man, etc................
Webcam could you please do a wonder woman video
This video is exactly what I wanted to see.
Keep up the good work!
So Pralaya is DC's equivalent of Oblivion from Marvel?
Correct.
It makes me wonder if both of them are just aspects of a greater being
@@crossfire4691 it could be There alot of claimed stated otherwise.
@@gabrielhughes8221 I think they're above greater beings, Oblivion claimed to be there before creation itself, and that he'll be there after creation, when he claims everything
@@tanyasaffell4943 Right yeah I'd remember. For right on both side of DC and Marvel comics never make it clear enough who is the Superior God. But by this their cant say because of the Comic Code they go by because of Religious beliefs. That's why On DC comics publishers God go by many names , titles and different aspects of God or gods. the first appearance of "The Voice" was in the 1940 origin of the Spectre - but they have traditionally used surrogate concepts and names rather than refer to the Abrahamic deity directly. The comics are published under the Comics Code, a set of ethical guidelines drawn up in the 1950s in reaction to anti-comic book hysteria. The Code does not explicitly refer to God, but does say that "ridicule or attack on any religious or racial group is never permissible."[2]Later revisions of the Code are phrased in terms of respecting religious beliefs and religious institutions, which may account for the comics' hesitancy when dealing with God.
The lack of a central doctrine means that multiple "aspects" of God have been introduced by different writers.
So it stated that in DC comics publishers but it also go out to Marvel as well.
So if the presence isn’t the all powerful dc character then who really is?
My first guess is Milkman Man
no one is, there are an infinite number of stories that view the previous one as fiction, so its an ever growing thing therefore no one is on top
@@shady8045 unless we get some Featherine esc character then yeah
probably the Overvoid
depends on what u think its canon
uwu or the unwritten (also known as the leviathan of all stories) if not then Greg Freely
sounds like you just don't like The presence or what he represents. Also you have to decide which presence the first one left and Elaine Belloc became the next one. First one is supreme and infinite and eternal.
Coriel Gaming Its not that he doesn’t like the Presence, he doesn’t like the misconception wank The Presence gets. The first one, which he mentions in the video, while he is infinite and eternal, was made by the dreaming and formed by the Collective Unconscious as said in the video.
@@van8510 he definitely doesn't like the presence
@@van8510Well isn’t that the case with everything else? The dreaming always existed ever since the first being or entity. The presence is just one of trillions dreamed up.
@@van8510There is no “most powerful being” in dc. There are just powerful characters that do things and those things have some impact.
Always Happy When I See You Posted A New Video! Can You Please Do A Video On Thanos Or Thor Next?
Hey, would you please make a video on batman? His stealth, intelligence and equipment are the most underrated aspects of him.
What?
@@mr.raider7865
What do you mean by, "what"? What I said is pretty self-explanatory.
What?
Oh, I see. It's a meme. Cool.
For me, the only thing above the presence is overvoid.
No
L L yes
So I'm a casual DC fan so forgive me if this is kind of a stupid question. So the Presence is basically God as we know him, but he is not the creator of all things and is beneath various other beings outside the Source?
If the presence can kick perpetua ass, then the presence can kick anyone's ass. the presence is !!!!!
Perpetua gets stomped by alot of characters 😂😂
Questions : Can we put the TRUE Darkside on the same level of existence than the presence?
No.
Awesome video.
Soo, I have a few questions to ask:
First, what comics are these from and what issue?I just want to read the comics cause I haven’t even seen any reference to the Presence in any DC comics but only in Vertigo Comics. 13:52 , 15:39 , and 17:50
Second, clarify me if I’m wrong but you claimed that the Hand, the Voice, and the Presence are not the part of a grand being which I assume is God. But then you said that God went on a ramble saying that he IS the Presence so wouldn’t you be contradicting your statement?
Third, so how would Prayala’s origin fit with the history of Perpetua? Would her being the Darkness before Creation in terms of within the DC Multiverse was created or rebooted or Creation has in before the Source was created?
Other than that I think you view of the Source and the Overvoid really cleared things up for me lol
Funny, I was just coming from a video of Seth and Chuck's about Alien X being not omnipotent.
Pralaya is basically dc’s version of oblivion, meaning she is only the embodiment of the void before and after creation so she isn’t as powerful as the presence but is just the personification of the end of everything
I love your vids. Theyre very informative
That's the jazz what happened befor Lucy deside to fly out into the void. The convo with the presence...I just can't remember the convo for the life of me
I absolutely love all of your content! Please never stop! Preach the Truth brother! I kinda would like some more marvel characters though. Anyway another great video
Could someone give me a list of the comics referenced here? Just so I don't have to jump back through the whole video please
How can Pralaya and Mother Night (mother of the endless) both be the embodiment of the nothingness that predated creation?
if The Presence Died, those it mean Death is above him?
Nah, Death doesn’t necessarily have power over anyone she claims, she’s just there for them when they die. Dream even says in Sandman that Lucifer and the Presence are the most powerful beings he’s aware of, and since Death is his sister, she would obviously be included in that as well.
@@TheIdiotNamedJoe then explain when the presence was killed by gabriel, and when he said himself that he is neither the supreme being and there are some above him and luci knows that, and when the writer said that the presence was shape by an external force which is all the beings that exist by worshipping and imagining he is real like DREAM and even the writer said that The Presence was Created by Dream of all humanity means Morpheus created The Presence since he is the Dream Itself
@@StrikerCup79 what the fuck are you talking about you lunatic?
@@TheIdiotNamedJoe read all the articles the DC Writers said about The Presence being shape by External Force(which was said is all the Dreamers all humanity who Worship something it doesn't exist and this belief created The Presence himself which said by the writer himself that The Presence was shaped through the Dream of External Forces means that even the Presence is bound to the siblings known as
Death
Destiny
Dream
Desire
Delerium
Despair
Destruction
Because The Presence was shown to be created by Dream of believers
And died in the hand of Gabriel and even he stated himself that Luci has the power to kill him means he is bound to Dream and Death.
And Destiny is to be said know all that things that happen and never happen like The Watchers so means that he has the power to sees The Presence Destiny because even The Presence himself stated "true i am eternal but even i was SHAPE BY EXTERNAL BEINGS, you know who they are"
Kinda want to see everyone tweet this video to Comics Explained
tbh i feel like alot of people just mistake the presence for the one above all, i know i do sometimes
The One Above All isn't omnipotent either.
They often compare them in battles
Well, at least Marvel has TOAA
Anyone amped by the Astral Regulator or the House of Ideas says "Hi"
The Presence was defeated so many times and killed some many times
Proof the presence was defeated so many times?
@@MarkSamurai5 wasn't the presence beaten by Lucifer once?
And yet the people who "defeated him" were defeated by one on his creations
Thanks for this, it all makes sense and was very interesting. Also good to here this stuff, I thought he was the all powerful being only below the writer, seems I was wrong
The fact is that you care more about DC's continuity WAY more than DC does
Good video. Please take these points into consideration.
I think the fact that the Presence says "shaped by forces external" implies that that shaped his personality. It's possible that he still existed but the minds of humans shaped him into a form that we understand. If god was just a product of the dreaming than Morpheus would be considered more powerful, but he says that he's weaker than lucifer.
As for your point about the Upside Down Man and how he is a more powerful aspect of the great darkness i think the fact that the light and the darkness are considered equals implies that the light could have an aspect that is just as powerful.
You also say that if a creature was able to absorb the Presence power than it would be more powerful. By that logic Parasite should be more powerful than Superman. I think it's useful to consider that every character has poor matchups. Metallow is weaker than superman but since he uses kryptonite he could win against him. Many people have good matchups with the Presence but he is still considered one of the most powerful.
I think considering almost every character was created by the Presence, and usually the hero's win, than technically the Presence wins.
I also think retcon corps retcons are apart of the The Plan. The Presence transcends time and he would probably realize that the retcons would happen. Same with Constantine and magic. If all magic could escape the plan than what would be the point of the plan? Destiny of the endless can see events in the future even when they are shaped by magic. The reason why comics explicitly state that things aren't in the plan is because everything else is.
Lex luthor isn't outside of time and space and he didn't create everything so his plans are not considered as valid.
Your smart but the Presence is a character that you should give the benefit of the doubt. I think that's the point of his character. He's not the strongest though, you've convinced me of that. Please consider my arguments and maybe I can convince you.
and If your gonna nitpick the comics than please alow others to nitpick your arguments. Thats just how things work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Presence is very explicitly having a conversation with Lucifer about how no one can be their own maker. Lucifer even specifically says that "he seems to be doing ok" and The Presence literally tells him "No" and then explains how he was created by forces external to him. I DID cover this in the video extremely explicitly. pay more attention.
Also Morpheus isn't even as strong as the Dreaming so I don't see how that affects anything. It wasn't necessarily The Dreaming either as I also explained in the video it's more likely to be The Collective Unconscious which the Dreaming is a small part of.
The small fraction of The Great Darkness is the only part of The Great Darkness that was even remotely implied to be "equal" to the light. The full real Great Darkness is far beyond that.
If Parasite literally killed Superman and absorbed all of his power yes he would be stronger than Superman lol. That has never happened though. Even if this being isn't The Presence he still clearly has all of his power and would literally just be stronger than him but we know it definitely is The Presence anyway so it's irrelevant.
Heroes aren't created by The Presence, they were created by Ahl the God of Superheroes a far more powerful being. And it's impossible for Ret Con corporation to be inside the plan as I explained because they are outside the Overvoid and we know that even stuff just past the source is beyond The Plan let alone something completely outside of the Overvoid. Also Ret Con Corporation are also outside time lol to a far greater extent than The Presence is actually.
What you are basically asking me to do is give The Presence special treatment I wouldn't give ANY other character because your baseless head canon says I should? No I wont be doing that lol.
Also if you think I nitpicked ANYTHING in this extremely in-depth video you should probably be concerned about brain damage.
@@WebCamParrot I believe the word the Presence used was "shaped" not created.
Maybe the parasite was a bad example. Would you say Rouge from marvel is more powerful than hulk if she's able to absorb his powers? And if your saying that a battle with a mind controlled character actually counts than you don't seem to know how comic battles work.
Yes heros were created by the presents. Batman is made out of adams. The Presence made adems. Ahl is the god of the superhero concept.
Retcon corp is outside of the Overvoid but its decisions that go into creation would be apart of the plan. Since the Presence is outside of time than he would know that they would be making those decisions and would have planned accordingly.
I'm not asking you to give the Presence special treatment im just saying that you seem to be giving everyone else the benefit of the doubt and not him. When a character is said to be one of the most powerful it may be wise to assume that he is.
The voice of god and god are two different things.
When they said "the most powerful god to walk the earth" they were referring to lowercase-"g". When zeus calls himself king of the gods, he isn't saying he's king of the presence. In the new gods when they said the "old gods" died in a war, they weren't referring to the presence. There has always been a distinction between Pandimensional beings like the Presence Uppercase-"G" and gods like zeus. Morpheus said he was older than the gods but was created by the Presence.
I tried talking to you in a polite way. Since you seem to be so sensitive about this i don't think there is a way to talk to you about this without you getting peeved. Putting "lol" at the end of every paragraph seems passive aggressive. I'm actually sad now because i really enjoyed your videos but you said i had brain damage so now I need to unsubscribe.
Also It was Constantine who said she was the most powerful god. Unreliable narrator.
Yes The Presence used the word "shaped" and in the context of the actual conversation he was talking about his MAKER. As I have now told you both in the video and here.
If Rogue is able to kill and absorb all of Hulks powers yes she would be stronger than him. She literally has all of his powers plus her own! How could she not be stronger than him.
Ahl is explicitly the creator of Superheroes not The Presence. The Presence didn't even create humans, humans created The Presence as I proved several times over.
It doesn't matter if The Presence knows what Ret con corporation is or what they are doing (he doesn't know anything about them for the record) he wouldn't be able to do anything about it anyway plan or otherwise. Just so you know Ret con corporation creates every single story written on the overvoid including The Presence and can erase everything on it including The Presence. So no The Plan does not include their actions, The Presence isn't even aware of them he's just a fictional character to Ret con.
I'm not giving ANYONE the benefit of the doubt. Everything I said is based on what actually happens in the comics and I proved as much. The Presence is extremely powerful, he's just not the supreme being.
I literally proved IN THE VIDEO several times that The Voice of God and God are different names for the exact same being. The Presence literally said himself more than once that they are. Also The Presence isn't an old god so completely inept analogy.
Dream of the Endless is older than The Presence. As I explained in the video The Presence was retroactively brought into existence.On top of this we know that the endless exist in other creations too and there are creations older than the Presence like the one the Jin En Mok come from.
Yes and The Presence is a "god" lower case g. He's not an old god though. You are also pulling that Zeus statement out of your ass and even if it exists there is obvious context to it. The only context to the Constantine and Nabu statements is that we have several other pieces of evidence to confirm that The Presence is weaker and that he was clearly involved in the event and Constantine and Nabu BOTH know that he has been on earth before.
I'm not inclined to be polite when you call hours of my own meticulous research "biased" based on nothing and after presenting a far more biased account that I ever did. Especially after I go to great lengths to prove everything I am saying with mountains and mountains of evidence. The "lol" wasn't intended to be passive aggressive, it was intended to be outright socially aggressive. I am laughing at your suggestion because it is laughable lol.
It was Constantine and Nabu actually and Constantine is very very aware of how strong The Presence is. They have interacted several times. If nothing suggests the statement is wrong it's not wrong and actually there are several things suggesting it is true so.
Please do unsubscribe if this is the dishonest attitude you are going to take with my videos in the future. I don't want you here.
Its Actually really Informative
"Whatever you are, you may have some of him in you. Perhaps you stole his power as you stole mine, but you are not my father." that sounds super direct and not metaphorical at all
It is metaphorical lol, he's talking about how The Presence has begun to act like a tyrant and dominator of creation, something that Lucifer had never seen in him prior to his change.
It's very similar to the cliche "I don't know who you are but you are not my father" line that get thrown around a ton in fiction. That's all it is.
Trying to say it's just Lucifer being an idiot and thinking it's not The Presence when he knows that it is and we are directly shown that it is kind of robs all of the narrative weight from the scene and just makes it really really dumb too.
Idk if you’re informed on god of war but I think it’d be dope to see you do a video on Kratos and powerscale him since some people tend to believe he’s only town level but I fw your content
You gonna do a video on the God of Superheros?
I never heard of the mattius guy. But sounds like he doesn't give a fuck about story or continuity at face value. Like a guy that just wants to soapbox in his comics.
Nah if anything Dematteis is doing the opposite of that. People ask him for his opinion and he gives it but then qualifies it by saying that it's just his interpretation not the ONLY interpretation. He's basically saying the story comes first.
Lol Presence is DC's GOD and supreme being but even it says that its onlt DC's supreme being and he literally destroys the fouth wall where he says he himself shaped by EXTERNAL forces, which in this concept is US, i mean comic readers in real world, think about it, we believe in DC and pay for it go forward, we believe its writers and animators to put new storys characters and worlds for it flourish into new multiverses as the latest one we call DCEU, Carey literally says it was humans who shaped The Presence he just doesnt say which humans. So Presence is DC's god as long as we believe it is to be and DC's writers may create a new one a stronger one as long as we pay for DC to continue.
I want to start reading JL and Justice league dark comics What do you recommend to read
The Dematteis Justice League from the 80s is a pretty good place to start when it comes to the JL if you want the more classic League stuff. JLD Vol 1 is the only real place to start when it comes to the Justice League Dark and if you want something more modern for the regular Justice LEague the current Scott Snyder run is great.
There are a ton of good Justice League comics though, the Grant Morrison stuff isn't bad either.
WebCamParrot Do you mean JLD 2018 or the first ever volume
Thanks btw
The first volume 2011/2012.
WebCamParrot I started with the 2018 one
Do I need to read the 2011 one before the new volume to understand better ??
Not at all they have very separate story-lines, but for what it's worth I preferred 2011/2012, both are very good though.
Do a Man-Thing vid😤
Hey bro can you do all versions of hulk vs all version of Goku in the future match up.
So then who is and why????
Please give me a simple answer.
The Presence is definitely one of the most powerful beings in DC, but I consider him to be nigh omnipotent alongside Lucifer Morningstar and the Great Evil Beast. The Over void on the other hand is full omnipotent and views the megaverse/omniverse in DC as a speck of dust.
Now im intrigued and love to know more bout ahl and a video that talk bout how stromg and powerful he is
Theres only one DC god... Jack Kirby
You mentioned The Source was an aspect of Michael or vice-versa. They are both described as limitless supplies of energy, something which I've always found interesting, but couldn't find any evidence supporting. Do you have any scans proving that to be true? Also, who's hand do you think is the Unseen Hand pulling together Connective Energies from The Source for Perpetua and The Hands in "At Multiverse's End"? It clearly wasn't Perpetua's, so, any theories? Also, I don't think The Presence was made from beliefs, simply because he differs in almost every aspect from the believed Judo-Christian God for him to be actually be shaped by those beliefs. I mean, for one, your average Christian wouldn't imagine Lucifer as a handsome blonde guy, so how could he be shaped from beliefs if he's not what people believe him to be?
No matter how many people are more powerful than the presence it doesn’t change the fact that we always scale god tier characters to him😂
Nope we use tiering system not the presence like tier 1A -outerversal
Tier 1b- hyperversal
Tier 1c- complex multiversal
Tier 2A multiversal+
Tier 2b multiversal
Tier 2c low multiversal
and also superman fanboys say the same thing about superman and guess what
Cosmic armor and milkman man are beyond the presence.
that really is what makes him God of DC is that everyone has to one up him
@@puckry9686 CAS was created by the monitors
@@puckry9686CAS is nowhere near him.
Story of Superman Superman: *erases prallaya through sheer chadness*
Pretty much, yeah.
It's very simple actually. The reason people believe that the Presence and the Darkness merged, is because of the yin yang ☯️ symbolism in the corner panels. 3:48 -3:59. Cause people have this idea of yin yang meaning opposites are fused together. Joined at the Hip. It's what some people view the Force as being inherently neutral.
I think they could still retcon some stuff and say that The Presence is just like an avatar of the true god and that all the statements from other beings who think they're more powerful, are just them being ill-informed. Though I think Pralaya is probably the true omni, then again Mother Night is similar.
Omnipotence doesnt exist in fiction, along with pralaya not even being the strongest person in DC
Kinda hate seeing this stuff, just makes comics way less enjoyable for me.
I don't understand
i just finished reading justice league dark #27 and im dissapointed , you ignored half the story about blight."it was all part of the presences plan after all to create a spirit of redemption" hohoho
That music got me in a speedrunning mood.
Isn’t the source the supreme being? Because of the god wave and all?
Kaito Nova Prime Well he actually makes a comment about that in the video. He shows that the Source is just an aspect of the Spectre
Dream *Aspect of Michael
75 86 yeah my bad
The one above all can kick the presents ass all day long
Rick Ledford no
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 what is above omnipotence and omnipresence
This guy takes L and another L then it keeps piling earth
The black soil is rich in foul decay, but glorious life springs from it. No matter how dazzling the flourishes of life, in the end all decays to black humis. Perhaps evil is the humis formed in virtue's own decay, and within this humis does virtue grow its greatest strengths.
10:20 is crazy head cannon
Not crazy headcanon just being consistent with the story
@@ultraviolett2489 its headcanon by definition nothing in the comic support his claim
@@killcount4750 Other than the fact that Lucifer refers to him as the Presence multiple times in the comic.
@@PauloJrchannel untill he realized it wasn't his father at the end that was the point
@@killcount4750 Not what happened there was no such moment of realisation
Now I see why DC and Marvel comic books fans are pathetic.
Is the parliament of trees and the green an outerversal construct like the red ?
"so he is fighting himself for no reason and then merges with hell to fight himself" makes as much sense as actual Christianity (sorry if that's too edgy but that joke was basically free) otherwise pretty much every point is perfect
Noice
Well being that Lucifer broke the presence's will and tore a page out of the book of Destiny I guess that kind of implies he is not all powerful or at the very least isn't omniscient.. but the point at the beginning of this video is misleading because that great darkness is called the Great Evil Beast and is a part of the presence.. it's his dark half basically.. they're two sides of the same coin essentially.
I proved it's not his Dark half literally in the video! Antagon is the Dark Side of The Presence not The Great Darkness.
And as we know half of infinity is still infinite so that doesn't really speak to the narrative you're trying to push
What does that have to do with anything. There are higher and lower infinities. The Great Darkness just isn't a part of The Presence and never has been.
I actually agree with the video I was thought the presence was the strongest character in dc but thank for telling me this
He is the strongest character in dc
@@denrao2420 no he's not he has clearly stated that there beings higher than and he's not omnipotent no one is
@@name2913 he never stated that
Which comic was it when the presence showed up?
Reminder that The Presence is the Supreme being and always will be.
I am the supreme being the presence is a false God
I created the entire dc multiverse
kneel before me
@@Endgame707 nope.
@@IdkBroEssays ok
The Presence is the most powerful being and the being that Lucifer fought wasn't The Presence
It was The Presence. Gabriel stabbed him and then he came back corrupted. The Angels literally saw him turning into that being. When Lucifer was saying that it was not his father, he was not being literal.
@@nameisnotimportant4856 uh I'm pretty sure he was and he never got along with his old man in the first place
@@marvinmoore2080 Even if you want to believe that, Lucifer stated that the dude literally stole Presence's power making him more powerful than The Presence.
@@nameisnotimportant4856 if so then how was Lucifer was able to kill that guy because The Presence is way more powerful than Lucifer
@@marvinmoore2080 Consider reading the actual comic.
So the existence of the Presence is similar to that of Mab from the series "Merlin" wherein the magicfolks will not exist if the people will no longer believe in them.
Yea he is lol
No
Yes he is.
@@ChillytheSilliestbilly Characters like Hecate have multiple statements above him
No one is and no there isn’t
@@ChillytheSilliestbilly Just saying no isn’t an actual counter argument
Great video! Thanks for sharing.
I stopped overhyping a character cause it's just stupid but I don't overhype the presence cause it seems kinda like something to start drama and how some fanboys says it's the pressence plan when forgetting he's a fictional character and the joke ain't funny.
Just my opinion tho
It doesn't help that people in generally have a hard time keeping things separate. Meaning lets say a person personal faith starts clouding their judgement into thinking a fictional character that uses some of the same names and some of the same stories. As if its all the same thing, but its human nature to try and combine things and make them simpler to comprehend.