Could you do the 1980 live performance of Linda Ronstate/Blue Byou with the graph software? I know you did You're No Good a few years ago, but her vocals are so amazing and they seem so perfect even in comparison with the studio version. Thanks.
#1 - Best to listen with headphones #2. They are this amazing! Heard them live with no mics or equipment. This level of talent really does exist. I am sure they fine tune professional recordings as all artist do for the best quality sound.
My understanding is that most of the a cappella groups will use pitch correction or timing adjustments in post for convenience, especially nowadays when most of them are recording their tracks separately at home and then mixing and resinging parts or making the pitch and timing corrections in post. They are all very accomplished singers, it's just a time saver, usually. Geoff from VoicePlay discusses it (I believe) in his interview with The Charismatic Voice. Many a Cappella groups do have some of their live performances on YT so you can hear their live sound (with a mix board, of course).
Thanks as always for the great lesson in listening. When I hear a soprano like this who is so tuned and flattened I can't help hearing in my head the voice of Margery MacKay in the film Sound of Music (dubbing "Climb Ev'ry Mountain"). It is so warm and clear and powerful. It is not perfect, but she is such a professional, knowing how to get the sound she wants or needs.
This is such a great video. I definitely had to chuckle as I watched your reaction and realized what was going on. Definitely makes me want to hear their true voices.
@@MegaJogadora Exactly. Obviously the producers of their music added effects to create the "wall of sound" choir effect, possibly multiple takes spliced together, and maybe some pitch correction to lock in all those parts to sound like one. I think the misunderstanding about the video is what really threw people for a loop. People actually thought they were singing in this video. It's obvious they're not since they look so calm, like they do in all their videos which are recorded after the fact (as virtually all music videos are).
Well said, “ turning human voices into a keyboard.” That about sums it up. It makes me appreciate growing up in the 60s and 70s. Thank you for your insights Fil!
I so agree with you, I enjoy natural voices. I have commented before about the imperfections being beautiful, giving us that connection with the vocalist that we, as listeners want. Miss the energy that you get with live performances. Always fun and informative.
Woow great reaction! All the while, I thought they were having a video acting on a rendered audio and did not notice the corrections. Thank you I learned from you on this video and learned about pitch correction software. But, I like the songs and the arrangments of the songs.
To quote Bob Seger: "Today's music ain't got the same soul." Geez, even more true today. Thanks to the abuse of technology, we'll soon just be listening to robots. The humanness totally stripped out of it. "Humanness? ... Oh how quaint, " the industry says. This type of thing doesn't soothe the soul. Too fake. Thanks Fil. I'm depressed now. "I reminisce about the days of old."
You don't have to get depressed or reminisce, you can just keep playing your old days, I am 66 years old, but can find brilliant music in every decade 😊
@@W0rdsandMus1c I love all kinds of music from all different periods, but it isn’t so brilliant if technology manipulates it to the point where it’s soulless - and that is sad. I agree with Fil (and Bob, who I was quoting).
Why does it matter music is music. Regardless of tools. You sound like.my art teacher who are so elitist and thought digital painting is not really art. If you are so entitled and think higher above others that you cant enjoy anything anymore and keep reminiscing about old past, then thats just sad. Its boomer.mentality and a little bit dramatic. Technology and peoples taste changes with time. That goes for art too. You either catch up, or keep living in the past and be left out.
What an excellent analysis!! I WILL admit to being a bit disappointed learning how MUCH pitch correction is happening. I knew there had to be postproduction work, but I didn't realize just how much! I STILL think Voctave is the best sounding vocal ensemble currently making music. Other a cappella groups (no names) are excellent as well, but I suspect they use even more correction in their studio releases than Voctave. Even the top-tier groups sound far more 'off pitch' when live than Voctave. Again, this was informative and enjoyable at the same time! That's not easy!
I think people have gotten the wrong idea about this video from all the reaction channels. This vocal performance wasn't captured with this video. This is a video recorded for the song, not a live performance video recording (they look too calm for that). I don't think Voctave ever explicitly started this was "live" so people shouldn't get the impression as if the singers decided to deceive their audience (that's the feel I get from reading some of the other comments). It was arranged and sung a Cappella, but it's obvious that the vocals were produced in the studio after recording (by whatever production team worked on it). Doesn't mean they can't sing as well (or on pitch) or needed the production to "correct their voices" because they are not good. It would be nice if their channel also released some of the rehearsal recordings. Listening to some live recordings will reveal their vocal skill and blend in an unprocessed state. I think all the major acappella groups' producers use some production techniques on the vocal recordings for their studio albums to give a tighter / more modern sound and be competitive with the rest of the industry (which is virtually all processed) for radio playability.
One side effect of the heavily over-produced vocals in so much of today's music, is that people start forgetting what human voice actually sounds like. So when they go to a live performance it doesn't sound the 'same' and they feel short changed. And people get impatient with real sound and the differences of human qualities. The skill, talent and kick out of using the voice is its uniqueness.
So true! People forget, or maybe don't realise, that it's your body that resonates, gets 'turned on' or engaged by the sounds/vibrations/ energies of music, and it doesn't have to be perfect or even polished. Your body knows the difference.
I totally agree. I watch videos of young artists that are supposed to be singing live without any technical help. Then you go into the comments and everyone keeps saying that they are the most talented and sing better than anyone. It's a real shame that the youth of today or a high percentage of them actually believe that. Everyone always wants to cut corners and not do the hard work. It's a real shame that using those aids has become so infused in the music industry today.
@@ShaunaTeaken I love how you describe sound and our bodies...vibrations, yup. I appreciate the chanting, oh shoot, that's really really deep, though I cannot listen to it, I feel it in my spine, where as other tones vibrate through out my body. ~ Take care ~ ☮💫
@@marysalvi242 I mean...the most basic definition of sound is vibrations in the air. Those are the 2 things you need to create sound. So, vibrations is the best way to describe it.
I've watched this group live many times. Most perform with Voices of Liberty at EPCOT Disneyworld. Even though there may be some autotune in the production, it's not much. They are everybit as good live! Go listen to some of the videos of Voices of Liberty, then do your reaction.
@@driggs2821 yes, it was. He posted another video where they're actually live which proves how much this was pitch corrected. You are ridiculously defensive. Are you sleeping with the soprano or something?
They're not doing a bunch of auto-tuning. When you see their out of the recording studio videos, like the ones they did in a house, they are lipsynching to the produced track. Tara Simons, a vocal coach who does reactions on yt, was fangirling over them and they invited her to a live concert. They actually are that good. You can watch when they are rehearsing with Kristie of Pentatonix and her then fiance Jeremy and they can't get over how phenomenal they are. It's legit. Kirstie Maldonado, Jeremy Lewis and Voctave Rehearsing before the recording th-cam.com/video/rjZpz0EvnV8/w-d-xo.html
@@stephaniezimbalist3757 he never said they weren't good. He said this video is pitch corrected and produced to a point that it no longer sounds natural, which, it is. It's obvious. No one's pitch is that perfect. He even proved it with his other video about them.
Hello) Very interesting reaction) And I kept thinking, why doesn't such music touch the strings of the soul) It sounds like it's harmonious, the voices are beautiful))) That's why I like to listen to my favorite performers at solo live concerts)) Thanks) I learned a lot of new things for myself) And special thanks for the subtitles)
I couldn't agree with you more. Part of what makes things beautiful is the unique qualities that we can discover in them. The human voice is no exception. A "perfect" voice is much different than a well trained voiced professionally used. Thanks for your very good work, as always. By the way, I just watched your video covering Pete Seeger and I wondered if you might consider covering a Phil Ochs tune or two?
Many years ago I worked in a recording facility and we had a medium-sized professional choir singing a mixture of contemporary and classic pieces (it was A cappella). The Producer spent the whole session tapping his tuning fork and we did countless retakes as the pitch drifted during a take. It was a shame because the relative pitch of the singers was great, it was just the producer felt we couldn't edit cleanly as the pitch wasn't constant. It was a long time before digital gadgets and I did the 1/4"editing with a razorblade, editing tape, chinagraph pencil and a trusty EMI editing block :)
Thanks for making all these great videos! This one video seems like a case where you don’t want vocal isolation and the frequency analysis of that one line, but rather a *spectrograph* of the whole audio (no vocal isolation). The results are visually harder to parse (since for all notes you’re seeing the intensity of all frequency components - fundamentals and harmonics - rather than just the fundamental of one voice), but I bet that there are also telltale visual hallmarks of pitch correction and autotuning that show up on the full spectrograph.
That is a shame. Also as a singer I hear recordings like this that are supposed be "live" and I judge my voice based on a very unrealistic target. We need more real unmodified voices.
Hi Fil. I'm surprised to see you say you cannot enjoy a performance. A real attraction to me of your channel is seeing your obvious enjoyment of performances from Karen Carpenter to Led Zeppelin, and everything in between. Those performances cannot possibly all be in styles of music you prefer, so it must be that you can enjoy any artist giving a good performance of whatever they are trying to achieve. Please keep on bringing a little bit of extra positivity into my days.🙂
I feel the same as you, disappointed that an a cappella group would use pitch correction when it is all about the blending of natural voices. I think they probably are all great singers who don't need it. Such a shame. I discovered the all male a cappella group Home Free last year & fell in love with their sound & talent. Many of their fans that go to their concerts say they sound the same live as their studio versions.
I love Home Free. All of their pieces are amazing but my favorites: Elvira with the Oak Ridge Boys; Ring of Fire with Avi Kaplan; Children Go Where I Send Thee with Kenny Rogers. Again, amazing group.
@@Alydra_ I think why those were at the top for me, because of growing up with Elvira and Ring of Fire and then being a Kenny Rogers fan starting from his KR and the First Edition says.
Hello Fil, Robert Jackson from Papillion, Nebraska. I want to tell you, Thank You for breaking down, how and why, music/video is created from Recordings, Production, all the way into our body, Mind, and finally into our Soul as Spiritual Beings. You have Many wonderful, "Gift's", beyond just your Musical Raw Talent as an artist. Every time I watch one of your video's I walk away richer in Music, Full stop! I live Music. My Historical Time Stamp of any memory from my life is connected to what was playing on my radio. As time goes by, "as I age", the only thing in my life that stays the same. Instant recall, of the words, sound, emotions, & the Year along with many instances of the actual Month or day associated with my Life event. I, "plug in" to my Headphones and fire up my Music Libraries and playlists looking for song's that are just below my play list where the single song's live that I search out. Most of the time the title of the song doesn't trigger a memory, until the song starts to play. It could of been 30+ years since I have heard the song and 8 out of 10 time's, I will be able to sing along with the song still knowing the majority of the words, then . . . . . I will have an emotional response to old friends or life event that was taking place during the debut week of the song. Mostly Joy, some times hurt & regret. but even though I may have remembered a sad moment, I will still leave with a smile on my face because I will remember the Good of the Past friendships before the song is over. That is when I will play it again Start to finish. Lights out, volume cranked up, my left hand cupped over my left ear so I can stay in tune as I sing and feel the Song's emotional draw. Love the Videos, Sharing with everyone I know. Again, Thank you! Robert Jon Jackson
@Wings of Pegasus Wow, once again you really are so impressive with, never mind about your wide range of musical talent, your absolute love of music that even with this video, it is towards the absolute messing around with all of this pitch correction that is turning singers into robots..geez, this is a prime example of what your trying so hard and doing a perfect way of getting all of us who sing, play instruments, and like you, love music to start hearing the difference between real vocals and the machinal sound of today. This brings me back years ago where I was going to do a cd release party as a backup singer and my friend whose ear was better then mine, kept playing a note and saying, "you can't hear your not on it??" lol I know I was close enough as you say for the human ear not to have heard it (I hope ; ) the thing was the band was so freaking loud, I truly was getting a physical reaction of feeling ill..thanks again, Fil!
I wasn't sure how to describe what I was hearing. It was nice but was devoid of feeling or emotion. Sad this is done when it isn't really necessary. I prefer listening to a natural voice, with or without mistakes. Thank you Fil, for the analysis!
Thanks for the analysis. I'm a big fan of Voctave but I'm not a professional. But I still do enjoy the vision of Voctave and what they present. I think the key issue is honesty, and the video does present a live performance. If Voctave was to just come out or even put it on the comments that the video is just accompaniment, that the audio was actually mixed and recorded with a studio polish, then it would be okay? In that case it would just come down to a matter of taste? As a casual consumer I really enjoy the "product" Voctave presents, but I really did think this was a live performance before this video. It's a bit disappointing but I'm still able to enjoy Voctave for what they do, though I would prefer if they were upfront about how they did these.
Well they actually don't do any lip syncing, they just would play the original audio in the background and sing along with it. They themselves have admitted it. As a matter of fact, most of them don't even know how to lip sync. Lol
Fil... i have loved many of your reviews ( Heart, Karen Carpenter etc.)I do not know about pitch correction, so please bear with me, but Voctave takes pride in never using auto-tune ( is that the same thing?) I have personally talked and listened to 100's of people via live chat/video sites and heard vocal coaches , some whom have 800,000 to over a million subscribers ( from Broadway singers, opera singers, sound techs and christian singers),who have seen them live and rave about how amazing they sound.They are all currently or have been singing for years, with the Voices Of Liberty at Epcot Center, Disney Florida. They know real Disney! ( those performances I have seen personally) It is all done with no microphones and sung in a semi circle. They are incredible. At their live shows they do numbers with no mics at all, as well.
Yes live they won't be using any pitch correction. Auto-tune is different to pitch correction, I have a video demonstrating the difference. They definitely aren't using auto-tune as it wouldn't work with the vibrato, hence why it's pitch correction. Unfortunately a lot of vocal coaches aren't producers and only really have experience of singing so they can't hear the tools being used. Any half decent producer will spot pitch correction a mile off due to it's mechanical sound and snapping to 440hz equal temperament. Great singers aren't always on the lines, that's why when the voices are forced to be it sounds like a piano.
I was so excited to see this group, I was waiting for little hummingbirds, bluebirds, flowers and butterflies to start flying around. And then there was an auto-tune machine that came in and crushed all of them. You can be harsh, but pitch-corrected.
Hey brother- I sincerely hope you took a minute to get that sunshine blown at ya. It was super fun to pick you apart. Just felt like giving you a giant tip of the hat from the bowels of the youtube cesspool. Just old Lucky shooting from the hip, Like I always do. Hope I put a smile on your face my friend!!!! as you have done for me many times.
I'm bummed that this was the first analysis I've seen of a capella music on your channel - I love a capella, though I'm not a follower of this group, and I'd been hoping to hear your thoughts on some of my favorites, but this sure makes it feel like we won't get to see that anytime soon. I love how deeply you analyze the performances you review, but the production choices made on this video meant that was really what you needed to talk about. I know all the major vocal bands have to constantly struggle to find the right balance between studio wizardry to compete with popular radio tastes and staying true to a capella. Thanks for staying true and honest in your analysis, though
Except that his "analysis" was completely wrong on a fundamental level. He complained about producer Jamey Ray using effects that were not even used on this recording.
When Jamey comes out and states that this is not what's happening then I will believe it. It's because of the studio setting that makes the viewers think that these are "live, unaltered recordings", because most people do not know how the process works. Until then...it's "too" perfect not to have some of this post production processing....but I still love it!!!@@driggs2821
I heard a bit of the new West Side Story and the trailers I've heard are awful. Ansel Elgort is Autotuned within an inch of his life, at least in the trailers I've listened to. They should just make these movies with Daleks. They have perfect pitch anyway, as everyone knows.
Keep in mind that all of the actors in the original West Side Story did not use their own voices and were lip syncing (except Rita Moreno who did some of her own singing, which she lip synced during the filming). I was disappointed when I found this out because I truly believed that those beautiful songs and voices were the real deal. It would have been a little better if they were lip syncing to their own pre- recorded voices, but someone else (who didn’t receive credits) did the singing.
@@rickiovine2170 I do keep that in mind. But automated pitch correction is destroying the soul of music. Something the original didn't suffer from. This allowed the beautiful tunes to literally sing through. The acting chops were well covered by the wonderful cast. I will wait to hear the new version in full and see how it goes, but I suspect I will be grinding my teeth at it.
@@rickiovine2170 but at least they were dubbed by other singers with ‘real’ voices. Marni Nixon was the voice of nearly every Hollywood musical actress for decades (she died recently, I believe), she wasn’t Natalie wood, but her voice was a real voice.
@@rickiovine2170 to have to lip sync to another singers great voice in a film is nothing new and has been done for many, many decades. But to lip sync in a film and have the original singers outstanding voices also auto tuned is a crime and should not be rewarded by watching the movie or listen to the music. Why produce music where the voices are altered with and they sound soul-/lifeless. Every music produced and sold where the singers voice has been corrected through auto tune or pitch correction needs to be labeled "caution: the voice has been auto tuned/pitch corrected"
Really interesting to see a vocal analysis of Acappella, (strangely) I always assume that I'm hearing their vocals untouched. Can you do an analysis of any Pentatonix performance, (only 5 voices) I love to see just how much of their sound is actually created in the studio.
If you want to see/hear a recording of their vocals untouched, you'll have to rely on amateur recordings from people in the audience of a live show. Always bear in mind that 99% of professional/official footage of live performances will have lots of post production added to it before being uploaded - such as an edited mix, added pitch correction on vocals, overdubbed instruments and vocals added in to certain parts etc. Even if you're watching a live performance being streamed in real time, the mix you're hearing won't necessarily be the same as it sounds at the show.
I hesitated before adding this comment because I think Fil actually believes everything he’s saying, however being a member of an a cappella group, we spend a lot of time rehearsing tuning and some of our coaches have pretty good ears so that The results may actually look auto tuned on the graph. I know that the arranger/leader/coach for this group is an experienced barbershop singer, and I’d take exception with Fil’s assumption that the pitch correction is that prominent. I’m not listening with ‘studio monitors’, but it doesn’t sound bad to me. My second issue is with his assumption that hearing the solo in the center implies that it’s recorded separately. The other thing we learn in a cappella singing is to Balance against the Melody part or soloist, whether using one or multiple microphones. Personally, I’d like to believe that they are just that good. Get over yourself.
The pitch correction is actually audible, before having it confirmed on a pitch monitor. But also singing naturally with a 0 cent deviation in pitch either way is something even Pavarotti couldn't achieve, for good reason. Through many, many analysis videos, even classical singers, it's impossible as singing with perfect pitch doesn't conform to equal temperament 440hz tuning, which is how the pitch correction here is being applied. Also, yes it is possible to blend voices and 'mix' voices naturally making one more prominent dynamically, but impossible to sing the wrong side of a condensor mic singing away from it and have it pick up the vocal as clearly as it comes across in the video. If you watch carefully, you can even see some of the vocal phrases aren't quite in sync with the singer singing them due to another take being used.
This was extremely clear to me on this one. It sounds, to me? Like they did this, then ... "time washed" the voices? To make them sound like an old Disney, full choir. *Caution- brain hurt coming*- So, they wanted that sound? But with a modern flair. LET THEM SING. LEAVE ARTISTS ALONE. STOP STRIPPING DNA, from VOCALISTS, lol- damn!
Hi Phil always love your reactions. Voctave really is an outstanding group. You just need to hear them live to see. If you really want to hear an amazing singer with spot on vocal pitch. Check out David Phelps " most resonant high notes" video. You'll be amazed.
Have you ever heard of The Real Group? They're a Swedish jazz A Cappella group. Been around since 1984. Great stuff. Highly recommend their stuff. Their live performance videos on youtube are incredible. One of those groups that is amazing in studio and even greater live.
Fil, thank you and now I am crying 😢. I can't listen to the radio anymore. I am a singer. I've worked to train my voice for 26 years, to hone my craft as a musician...I am sickened by the digitization of musicians in this manner. It's insidious and deceitful. What's more, it's without integrity. I just can't. I'm broken. (I will, however, continue to watch your videos 😉)
Please Don't! This is just the recording industry that is committing these travesties and they are well known for the cheapest way to get their product out. There are plenty of jobs for singers that can actually sing without any of these crutches. Don't be disheartened by this fakery you will still be able to sing as well as you do when the power goes off.
@@charliecampbell6851 Of all of the comments you could have made why did you make that to this one? Voctave certainly don't need you to White Knight for them and you won't get a medal for doing so.
Hi Phil... I'd love to hear you talk about Bob Dylan's rendition of Hard Times Come Again No More. I'm interested in the way he uses voice quality and color to tell the story, without messing with the melody or the timing.
I'd like to take a break from pitch perfection and pretty voices with analysis of singers like Dylan or maybe Tom Waits, Lou Reed, or Lucinda Williams. I love singers who use color and expression as much as those who have technique.
It would be interesting to compare some of the old acapella groups such as the Ink Spots or even Manhattan Transfer, to these more modern versions. Not in a these guys are good and those are bad. More like how do they approach arranging the music and how they use the voice as an instrument.
Well, the Manhattan Transfer rarely sang without accompaniment, so that would be an apples to oranges comparison. More relevant would be Singers Unlimited, who had several albums of a cappella performances, as well as a Christmas album that is on my permanent Christmas playlist. Bonnie Herman, Don Shelton, Gene Puerling, and Len Dresslar, all jingle singers in LA back in the 1970s, were the original lineup, and a couple of them had been members of The Hi-Los in the 1960s as well. A sample: th-cam.com/video/qGqSq4Ii5YY/w-d-xo.html
Fil, Please try Pentatonix! Hallelujah, 90’s Dance Medley, or Home Free singing End of the Road by Boyz to Men. I’m so excited to hear your thoughts on their particular voices.
My thoughts: I think when it comes down to it, they released this like any other singers and artists would do when they release their official videos: use auto tune. Yes, they may be talented enough to do it live, but there’s no difference or shame of them using it for their official video on TH-cam like others do, wanting it to be the best as possible for the public to listen to. It’s like saying it’s disappointing that Home Free or Pentatonix release a video simply because auto tune was used. The way they do their videos is just their style, it’s not like they intend to trick you that no auto tune is used, heck, if you want to hear them live unedited, they have a few videos released saying “live performances” in the video title. If y’all need to, see them at their tours.. and if you want almost perfection (like completed edited produced songs like this) then by all means, you can find many songs like this and their other full released “official videos” here on TH-cam!
I think the problem is a lot of people don't understand how widespread it is and think this is live amd unedited. It's a shame, as music doesn't conform to 440hz tuning so live will always sound better or 'best', I don't know why so many singers don't understand this. Ironically trying to sound 'perfect' comes across as worse!
Fil, Fil, Fil: I'm getting there. Thanks to your analysis videos and examples of pitch correction and autotune I am getting educated. ANALYSIS SUGGESTION: compare original music videos to recent remastered versions of the same song. I started listening to a couple of original music videos done 30+ years ago by singer / songwriters and comparing them to TH-cam vids of the same song after it had been remastered in the last 5-10 years (James Taylor, Neil Young, Tracy Chapman, Billy Joe Armstrong). All three of these singers have what I would consider naturally resonate voices. [Not intentional vibrato, but 'resonate -- don't know how else to describe it.] Point is the remastered versions do sound different. And - as you have pointed out -- the vocals in the remasters have lost some of the resonate quality of the singers' voices. Well, that's my diagnosis.
That _is_ disappointing, but it shows why some technically superior performances can leave you cold. All my life I've attended community orchestra, band, quartet, etc., performances to support friends and family, and I always assumed my pride and support in them is why I often enjoyed their "imperfect" performance more than some professional recordings. I'm sure this is going to sound obvious to people who've been in the know for a long time, but as someone who only really started to understand the extent of pitch correction and such in the last year, the warmth and energy of unadulterated music simply is more authentic sounding and easier to connect with as an audience. Sigh.
Yes! Even the less developed skill levels of young students playing & singing together is just an altogether great experience. It’s something that connects the performers & their audience. There’s nothing that can replace the experience.
I couldn't agree more. I love the old traditional church hymns, but as sung by a local congregation, just about keeping it together. On the other hand, the perfect performances by professional choirs, with an "arrangement", seem to lose all the soul and the spirit of the music. "Perfection" is rarely better.
Another reason to go and see groups and singers live if possible and hopefully not have to experience the vocal manipulation. There is such a powerful human connection to a live unadulterated voice.
I have seen Voctave live on multiple occasions. They sound absolutely incredible. And it was clear that they were not using any sort of pitch correction then. To be honest it didn't sound hardly any different from the recordings, which blew me away the first time I heard them. They're truly fantastic musicians. If you get the chance, go see them, you won't regret it.
I spent the first twelve years of my life listening to Salisbury Cathedral Choir, and then the Deller family (Alfred, Mark and the Deller Consort) rehearsing in our living room. After that formative experience, this video sounds quite ghastly. If you listen to Mike Wedgwood singing “Show of our Lives” with Caravan, you’ll not be surprised to know that it was recorded in two takes, unmodified. You’ll also not be surprised to hear, Fil, that Mike Wedgwood was also the Head Chorister in Salisbury Cathedral. I actively dislike this noise and it sounds auto-tuned, it really does.
These are good singers. But your critique is spot on. The beauty of the human voice cannot be duplicated, but now you can fool around with a voice to where it no longer sounds human. PITY! I enjoyed your critiques of Elvis, Roy, Judy, Barbara, Karen and also the Everly's. Their voices were very individual and Identifiable. Even when some tried to impersonat them, they always fell short, Like fine art, they were originals. This music sounds just like what it is. It's from that perfect Disney, "MAKE BELIEVE, Some Day My Prince Will Come," world. We can use some of the good put back in a lot of the areas in our lives, bot why do they need to keep to pushing perfection where it just doesn't fit.
Great lesson on what not to do. Put that product on elevator music. That’s the only time something will go up and down instead of being “dead on the line.”
This is legit a music video so everyone just chill out. It’s a music video, not a live performance. So just enjoy the music, enjoy the arrangement, enjoy the story in the songs and in the characters in the voices. Thats obviously how they sound, as in thats obviously their vocal tone and colors. You legit CAN hear their humanity, so lets not critique them for clout or personal feelings of superiority. Just chill out. This review was unnecessary, focus on their live performances, if thats your thing..this is literally a music video.
Was the expectation thought that we think this was a love audio? Tons of artists have these kind of video clips where they are seen in the studio, but it's obvious the track is edited for release
There are great singers who do not need autotune/pitch correction and there are singers like Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash who have less than perfect voices. Autotune and pitch correction only take away from what people can do naturally-warts and all.
I'd love to see you do something with Take 6. I have seen them live numerous times long before there was Melodyne or AutoTune. As far as I know, none have perfect pitch but their accuracy and the complexity of what they do harmonically is second to none. Sorry, Vocative is just an "also ran"
I find this very sad and disappointing. I can instantly hear auto tune/pitch correction in a recording. The soprano/s sound cartoonish! I can't stand this kind of "technology". This is not at all pleasing to my ear, at least. The human voice, at its best, is beautiful in its perfection as well as in its imperfection. I dislike the way vibrato is manipulated and .... I'll stop now. This is a hard pass from me! Thanks Fil.
Funny thing is, you can hear in their live performances they're just as good if not the same...so people like you pretending that these folks are nothing but "technology" laden voices is....amusing to say the least.
I'm a little confused. I thought you said that they aren't really singing live but a previously recorded track. You pointed out on the last soloist that she wasn't standing in front for the mic. At one point she looks up, and it seems someone instructs her to move forward which she does. You can definitely hear the volume increase as she moves forward. If she's not singing live, why does it matter where she stands and why would the volume increase when she gets closer to the mic? .....help!
Snow White...Sleeping Beauty.... Mulan.... Pocahontas.... Pinocchio Melody These are all songs I love but there's no vulnerability in this track..a shame. Acapella means your voice and only your voice. However with pitch correction or autotune it's not their voice. This is really acapella?
Yes, it is. I'm no expert or music producer; I am a Voctave fan. That being said, I heard Kate Lott and Ashley Espinoza, two of the vocalists, back in September of 2021, in their time with Voices of Liberty. I've also seen TH-cam videos from audience members at performances where they sang on stage. I can tell you, after listening to all of that, these folks are just that insanely talented. I get that many artists today, or more likely producers, use pitch correction to clean up a track. That's just simply not the case here.
Now that I watch your channel, when we see videos like this, it totally sucks, because it's fake. I'd rather hear the real singing and mistakes, etc.. Thank you for all your insight, knowledge and education that you provide. It helps me to understand and enjoy music and what it means so much more
But it's not fake. There was no auto tune or pitch correction on this track. I know this firsthand, from the producer himself, Jamey Ray. WoP doesn't know what he's talking about.
Firstly, thank you for your honesty here. I would have never known so much was going on. Very sad. I love the real voice and all that entails. Throw the gimmicks away! And secondly, thank you once again for teaching me something. Every time I come here seems to be a learning session for me. And I am here often!
Just wondering if you've watched Bo Burnham's "Can't Handle This -Kanye Rant" and what is your take on how Bo uses autotune so creatively in this particular performance?
You should give it a watch, it's a masterclass in using tech/auto tune creatively. Also don't be put off by the Kanye reference in the title or that Bo is generally labelled a comedian, he is, in actual fact, a musical genius. Despite requesting it, I didn't actually think you'd do an acappella analysis so thank you for listening. X
So true about the pitch correction. The chords suffer because of it. A real musician will automatically tune to the chord, not the note, and with the attempt at making the voices all sound on tune, the chords are flat and boring. A capella requires voices that are "off pitch" in the right way.
Have you heard Voces8? They are wonderful. May It Be, Bridge Over Troubled Water, A Nightingale Sang in Barkley Square etc. Check out their channel. Based in London.
I don't know if they use tuning on their recordings or if the videos are live. They do perform live but being in Canada I have never had the opportunity.
Fil, if you are digging into a cappella stuff, please have a listen to the Quebe Sisters. Tremendous singers and players doing bluegrass/swing material that is as pure as it gets. If you like Alison Krauss, you'll love the Quebes.
Listening to the pitch correction.....for some reason makes me think of the song "Mr. Roboto" they don't need any of the pitch correction etc they are fantastic all on their own
Thank you Fil for another outstanding lesson on why I find todays artist's talents questionable. I was watching a Rick Beato vid with him talking to a young lady about a LZ tune and her reason for not liking it was it didn't USE auto tune, it had a guitar solo, UNBELIEVABLE, smh. What a shame today's youth like this substandard crap. If you could check out any live performance on the Voice (America) that would be great. If they auto tune the contestants, that would be one more thing I wouldn't waste my time watching on TV. Janet from Louisiana ☮🖤🤘
I would love to hear your thoughts on Geoff Castelucci, Tim Foust, and Avi Kaplan, and whether or not any(or all) are using corrective software. I love listening to a good Bass singer, but certain ones literally hurt my ears to listen to, and I'm wondering if pitch correction or Auto-Tune is to blame for the odd issue I'm having. Of the three I listed, only one vocalist is not causing the issue. I also have a similar issue with certain Bass singers in groups. If it is Auto-Tune/pitch correction, it's both a revelation, and a shame, as it ruins the enjoyment of a good arrangement.
That is interesting to know. Thank you. What it is I'm hearing with especially one Bass singer in particular is a droning 'buzz' at the lowest growled note they do. It's very jarring, almost like the effect when a speaker has blown and the bass notes pouring out of it does this odd crackling, buzzing noise out of the speaker because it's broken. It's far worse with headphones, and soft volume. I never get that issue with someone like Richard Anthony Sterban, Thurl Ravenscroft, or Tennessee Ernie Ford, and never even considered the post recording processes might be what's odd about them until watching Fil's analysis of waveforms.
Actually, they do no autotune. They all sing professionally at WaltDisneyWorld live without mics so they are that good. Maybe go see them live and you will see. Live they actually sound better. Try listening to “Where are you Christmas?” When they use A little boy to sing a part and you can tell the difference between his voice and theirs, and you will see. Most of these people have advanced music degrees and have worked on their voices for years. There are some recordings of them live in concert online, you will see. Obviously you are not a professional a cappella singer and haven’t sung this way for years. Tiffany, the second soprano to sing, has been at Disney since the 80s and CJ, one of the basses longer than that.
i would guess all the acapella groups do this to their stuff I'm curious if even g. castellucci, the guy that explaines what to do to produce the deep bass voice vocally, uses that
I think G. Castellucci and/or other members of VoicePlay have openly admitted that they have 'tweaked' and 'done tricks' to vocal tracks in post production in order to reach a desired effect and impact. I bet that includes some pitch correction, too.
If anything, Voctave uses the least amount of pitch correction amongst the bigger modern a cappella groups. Voiceplay uses way more than you hear here.
I always learn from Fil. Intellectually honest and fair. The art comes first.
Yes, very much appreciated.
I love your honest (and educational) reviews.
Could you do the 1980 live performance of Linda Ronstate/Blue Byou with the graph software? I know you did You're No Good a few years ago, but her vocals are so amazing and they seem so perfect even in comparison with the studio version. Thanks.
Oh yes! And it's a Roy Orbison song, too. Maybe that could be a two-parter with these phenomenal vocalists!
#1 - Best to listen with headphones #2. They are this amazing! Heard them live with no mics or equipment. This level of talent really does exist. I am sure they fine tune professional recordings as all artist do for the best quality sound.
7:32 An angel has just entered. Hilarious how he's so casual about it.
My understanding is that most of the a cappella groups will use pitch correction or timing adjustments in post for convenience, especially nowadays when most of them are recording their tracks separately at home and then mixing and resinging parts or making the pitch and timing corrections in post.
They are all very accomplished singers, it's just a time saver, usually. Geoff from VoicePlay discusses it (I believe) in his interview with The Charismatic Voice. Many a Cappella groups do have some of their live performances on YT so you can hear their live sound (with a mix board, of course).
Thanks as always for the great lesson in listening. When I hear a soprano like this who is so tuned and flattened I can't help hearing in my head the voice of Margery MacKay in the film Sound of Music (dubbing "Climb Ev'ry Mountain"). It is so warm and clear and powerful. It is not perfect, but she is such a professional, knowing how to get the sound she wants or needs.
This is such a great video. I definitely had to chuckle as I watched your reaction and realized what was going on. Definitely makes me want to hear their true voices.
Please do look for their live videos online.
There are a lot of live videos. Voctave's singers are perfect alive as well.
@@MegaJogadora Exactly. Obviously the producers of their music added effects to create the "wall of sound" choir effect, possibly multiple takes spliced together, and maybe some pitch correction to lock in all those parts to sound like one.
I think the misunderstanding about the video is what really threw people for a loop. People actually thought they were singing in this video. It's obvious they're not since they look so calm, like they do in all their videos which are recorded after the fact (as virtually all music videos are).
@@TheSeeking2know yeah 👏👏 I heard Tiffany singing "I just have seen Jesus" alive. Stunning!!!!
Well said, “ turning human voices into a keyboard.” That about sums it up. It makes me appreciate growing up in the 60s and 70s. Thank you for your insights Fil!
I so agree with you, I enjoy natural voices. I have commented before about the imperfections being beautiful, giving us that connection with the vocalist that we, as listeners want. Miss the energy that you get with live performances. Always fun and informative.
Woow great reaction! All the while, I thought they were having a video acting on a rendered audio and did not notice the corrections. Thank you I learned from you on this video and learned about pitch correction software. But, I like the songs and the arrangments of the songs.
To quote Bob Seger: "Today's music ain't got the same soul." Geez, even more true today. Thanks to the abuse of technology, we'll soon just be listening to robots. The humanness totally stripped out of it. "Humanness? ... Oh how quaint, " the industry says. This type of thing doesn't soothe the soul. Too fake. Thanks Fil. I'm depressed now. "I reminisce about the days of old."
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@@cwbyjnkies Excuse me? If you're suggesting that I shut up, think again.
You don't have to get depressed or reminisce, you can just keep playing your old days, I am 66 years old, but can find brilliant music in every decade 😊
@@W0rdsandMus1c I love all kinds of music from all different periods, but it isn’t so brilliant if technology manipulates it to the point where it’s soulless - and that is sad. I agree with Fil (and Bob, who I was quoting).
Why does it matter music is music. Regardless of tools. You sound like.my art teacher who are so elitist and thought digital painting is not really art.
If you are so entitled and think higher above others that you cant enjoy anything anymore and keep reminiscing about old past, then thats just sad.
Its boomer.mentality and a little bit dramatic. Technology and peoples taste changes with time. That goes for art too. You either catch up, or keep living in the past and be left out.
What an excellent analysis!! I WILL admit to being a bit disappointed learning how MUCH pitch correction is happening. I knew there had to be postproduction work, but I didn't realize just how much! I STILL think Voctave is the best sounding vocal ensemble currently making music. Other a cappella groups (no names) are excellent as well, but I suspect they use even more correction in their studio releases than Voctave. Even the top-tier groups sound far more 'off pitch' when live than Voctave. Again, this was informative and enjoyable at the same time! That's not easy!
The keyboard chord you played was a powerful demonstration of the problem with overzealous pitch correction. Thank you.
I think people have gotten the wrong idea about this video from all the reaction channels. This vocal performance wasn't captured with this video. This is a video recorded for the song, not a live performance video recording (they look too calm for that). I don't think Voctave ever explicitly started this was "live" so people shouldn't get the impression as if the singers decided to deceive their audience (that's the feel I get from reading some of the other comments).
It was arranged and sung a Cappella, but it's obvious that the vocals were produced in the studio after recording (by whatever production team worked on it). Doesn't mean they can't sing as well (or on pitch) or needed the production to "correct their voices" because they are not good.
It would be nice if their channel also released some of the rehearsal recordings. Listening to some live recordings will reveal their vocal skill and blend in an unprocessed state.
I think all the major acappella groups' producers use some production techniques on the vocal recordings for their studio albums to give a tighter / more modern sound and be competitive with the rest of the industry (which is virtually all processed) for radio playability.
One side effect of the heavily over-produced vocals in so much of today's music, is that people start forgetting what human voice actually sounds like. So when they go to a live performance it doesn't sound the 'same' and they feel short changed. And people get impatient with real sound and the differences of human qualities. The skill, talent and kick out of using the voice is its uniqueness.
You are absolutely correct.
So true! People forget, or maybe don't realise, that it's your body that resonates, gets 'turned on' or engaged by the sounds/vibrations/ energies of music, and it doesn't have to be perfect or even polished. Your body knows the difference.
I totally agree. I watch videos of young artists that are supposed to be singing live without any technical help. Then you go into the comments and everyone keeps saying that they are the most talented and sing better than anyone. It's a real shame that the youth of today or a high percentage of them actually believe that. Everyone always wants to cut corners and not do the hard work. It's a real shame that using those aids has become so infused in the music industry today.
@@ShaunaTeaken I love how you describe sound and our bodies...vibrations, yup. I appreciate the chanting, oh shoot, that's really really deep, though I cannot listen to it, I feel it in my spine, where as other tones vibrate through out my body. ~ Take care ~ ☮💫
@@marysalvi242 I mean...the most basic definition of sound is vibrations in the air. Those are the 2 things you need to create sound. So, vibrations is the best way to describe it.
I've watched this group live many times. Most perform with Voices of Liberty at EPCOT Disneyworld. Even though there may be some autotune in the production, it's not much. They are everybit as good live! Go listen to some of the videos of Voices of Liberty, then do your reaction.
I'm sure they actually sound better than this live, as their voices would be unrestricted.
@@wingsofpegasus This recording was not pitch corrected. You don't know what you're talking about.
@@driggs2821 yes, it was. He posted another video where they're actually live which proves how much this was pitch corrected.
You are ridiculously defensive. Are you sleeping with the soprano or something?
They're not doing a bunch of auto-tuning. When you see their out of the recording studio videos, like the ones they did in a house, they are lipsynching to the produced track. Tara Simons, a vocal coach who does reactions on yt, was fangirling over them and they invited her to a live concert. They actually are that good. You can watch when they are rehearsing with Kristie of Pentatonix and her then fiance Jeremy and they can't get over how phenomenal they are. It's legit.
Kirstie Maldonado, Jeremy Lewis and Voctave Rehearsing before the recording th-cam.com/video/rjZpz0EvnV8/w-d-xo.html
@@stephaniezimbalist3757 he never said they weren't good. He said this video is pitch corrected and produced to a point that it no longer sounds natural, which, it is. It's obvious. No one's pitch is that perfect. He even proved it with his other video about them.
Once again Fil, spot on with your critique. I wish more reviewers could be half as objective.
Fil, have you listened to "Mary, did you know" with Mark Lowery ft. Voctave. I absolutely loved it. Mark wrote the song, FYI.
It makes me happy to hear you say what I never could express "The imperfection of a (singing) voice is perfect."
It really is.
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Hello) Very interesting reaction) And I kept thinking, why doesn't such music touch the strings of the soul) It sounds like it's harmonious, the voices are beautiful))) That's why I like to listen to my favorite performers at solo live concerts)) Thanks) I learned a lot of new things for myself) And special thanks for the subtitles)
Great analysis, you’re very intelligent 👍🏻😎💚
I couldn't agree with you more. Part of what makes things beautiful is the unique qualities that we can discover in them. The human voice is no exception. A "perfect" voice is much different than a well trained voiced professionally used. Thanks for your very good work, as always. By the way, I just watched your video covering Pete Seeger and I wondered if you might consider covering a Phil Ochs tune or two?
Love your videos - I'm entertained and educated. The best way to learn about your profession!
Awesome analysis Fil and thank you for sharing.
Many years ago I worked in a recording facility and we had a medium-sized professional choir singing a mixture of contemporary and classic pieces (it was A cappella). The Producer spent the whole session tapping his tuning fork and we did countless retakes as the pitch drifted during a take. It was a shame because the relative pitch of the singers was great, it was just the producer felt we couldn't edit cleanly as the pitch wasn't constant. It was a long time before digital gadgets and I did the 1/4"editing with a razorblade, editing tape, chinagraph pencil and a trusty EMI editing block :)
Thanks for making all these great videos! This one video seems like a case where you don’t want vocal isolation and the frequency analysis of that one line, but rather a *spectrograph* of the whole audio (no vocal isolation). The results are visually harder to parse (since for all notes you’re seeing the intensity of all frequency components - fundamentals and harmonics - rather than just the fundamental of one voice), but I bet that there are also telltale visual hallmarks of pitch correction and autotuning that show up on the full spectrograph.
👍😀Great analysis, as always, Fil ❗
That is a shame. Also as a singer I hear recordings like this that are supposed be "live" and I judge my voice based on a very unrealistic target. We need more real unmodified voices.
Hi Fil. I'm surprised to see you say you cannot enjoy a performance. A real attraction to me of your channel is seeing your obvious enjoyment of performances from Karen Carpenter to Led Zeppelin, and everything in between. Those performances cannot possibly all be in styles of music you prefer, so it must be that you can enjoy any artist giving a good performance of whatever they are trying to achieve.
Please keep on bringing a little bit of extra positivity into my days.🙂
Only because the vocals weren't live!🙂
I feel the same as you, disappointed that an a cappella group would use pitch correction when it is all about the blending of natural voices. I think they probably are all great singers who don't need it. Such a shame. I discovered the all male a cappella group Home Free last year & fell in love with their sound & talent. Many of their fans that go to their concerts say they sound the same live as their studio versions.
I love Home Free. I was excited too that he was doing this analysis, but, shame. Be interested if he did a Home Free one, though!
Me too, I am also a Home Fry. I hope there is no pitch correction.
I love Home Free. All of their pieces are amazing but my favorites: Elvira with the Oak Ridge Boys; Ring of Fire with Avi Kaplan; Children Go Where I Send Thee with Kenny Rogers.
Again, amazing group.
@@patriciasnyder6915 Yes! Love all of those, though I am currently fascinated with their Helplessly Hoping cover.
@@Alydra_ I think why those were at the top for me, because of growing up with Elvira and Ring of Fire and then being a Kenny Rogers fan starting from his KR and the First Edition says.
Love your vids...would you consider analyzing the voice of Canada's Anne Murray?
Hello Fil,
Robert Jackson from Papillion, Nebraska. I want to tell you, Thank You for breaking down, how and why, music/video is created from Recordings, Production, all the way into our body, Mind, and finally into our Soul as Spiritual Beings. You have Many wonderful, "Gift's", beyond just your Musical Raw Talent as an artist. Every time I watch one of your video's I walk away richer in Music, Full stop! I live Music. My Historical Time Stamp of any memory from my life is connected to what was playing on my radio. As time goes by, "as I age", the only thing in my life that stays the same. Instant recall, of the words, sound, emotions, & the Year along with many instances of the actual Month or day associated with my Life event.
I, "plug in" to my Headphones and fire up my Music Libraries and playlists looking for song's that are just below my play list where the single song's live that I search out. Most of the time the title of the song doesn't trigger a memory, until the song starts to play. It could of been 30+ years since I have heard the song and 8 out of 10 time's, I will be able to sing along with the song still knowing the majority of the words, then . . . . . I will have an emotional response to old friends or life event that was taking place during the debut week of the song. Mostly Joy, some times hurt & regret. but even though I may have remembered a sad moment, I will still leave with a smile on my face because I will remember the Good of the Past friendships before the song is over. That is when I will play it again Start to finish. Lights out, volume cranked up, my left hand cupped over my left ear so I can stay in tune as I sing and feel the Song's emotional draw. Love the Videos, Sharing with everyone I know. Again, Thank you! Robert Jon Jackson
Thanks for the kind words!
@Wings of Pegasus Wow, once again you really are so impressive with, never mind about your wide range of musical talent, your absolute love of music that even with this video, it is towards the absolute messing around with all of this pitch correction that is turning singers into robots..geez, this is a prime example of what your trying so hard and doing a perfect way of getting all of us who sing, play instruments, and like you, love music to start hearing the difference between real vocals and the machinal sound of today. This brings me back years ago where I was going to do a cd release party as a backup singer and my friend whose ear was better then mine, kept playing a note and saying, "you can't hear your not on it??" lol I know I was close enough as you say for the human ear not to have heard it (I hope ; ) the thing was the band was so freaking loud, I truly was getting a physical reaction of feeling ill..thanks again, Fil!
I wasn't sure how to describe what I was hearing. It was nice but was devoid of feeling or emotion. Sad this is done when it isn't really necessary. I prefer listening to a natural voice, with or without mistakes. Thank you Fil, for the analysis!
I have to admit that the song from Snow White took me back to my childhood!
Thanks for the analysis. I'm a big fan of Voctave but I'm not a professional. But I still do enjoy the vision of Voctave and what they present. I think the key issue is honesty, and the video does present a live performance. If Voctave was to just come out or even put it on the comments that the video is just accompaniment, that the audio was actually mixed and recorded with a studio polish, then it would be okay? In that case it would just come down to a matter of taste? As a casual consumer I really enjoy the "product" Voctave presents, but I really did think this was a live performance before this video. It's a bit disappointing but I'm still able to enjoy Voctave for what they do, though I would prefer if they were upfront about how they did these.
Well they actually don't do any lip syncing, they just would play the original audio in the background and sing along with it. They themselves have admitted it. As a matter of fact, most of them don't even know how to lip sync. Lol
Great detective work. I like when you find out the dishonesty of auto tune. Disney has become synonymous with dishonesty.
Fil... i have loved many of your reviews ( Heart, Karen Carpenter etc.)I do not know about pitch correction, so please bear with me, but Voctave takes pride in never using auto-tune ( is that the same thing?) I have personally talked and listened to 100's of people via live chat/video sites and heard vocal coaches , some whom have 800,000 to over a million subscribers ( from Broadway singers, opera singers, sound techs and christian singers),who have seen them live and rave about how amazing they sound.They are all currently or have been singing for years, with the Voices Of Liberty at Epcot Center, Disney Florida. They know real Disney! ( those performances I have seen personally) It is all done with no microphones and sung in a semi circle. They are incredible. At their live shows they do numbers with no mics at all, as well.
Yes live they won't be using any pitch correction. Auto-tune is different to pitch correction, I have a video demonstrating the difference. They definitely aren't using auto-tune as it wouldn't work with the vibrato, hence why it's pitch correction. Unfortunately a lot of vocal coaches aren't producers and only really have experience of singing so they can't hear the tools being used. Any half decent producer will spot pitch correction a mile off due to it's mechanical sound and snapping to 440hz equal temperament. Great singers aren't always on the lines, that's why when the voices are forced to be it sounds like a piano.
Check this group live...they are fenomenal
Great analysis, Fil. Thank you.
I was so excited to see this group, I was waiting for little hummingbirds, bluebirds, flowers and butterflies to start flying around.
And then there was an auto-tune machine that came in and crushed all of them.
You can be harsh, but pitch-corrected.
Hey brother- I sincerely hope you took a minute to get that sunshine blown at ya. It was super fun to pick you apart.
Just felt like giving you a giant tip of the hat from the bowels of the youtube cesspool.
Just old Lucky shooting from the hip, Like I always do. Hope I put a smile on your face my friend!!!!
as you have done for me many times.
I'm bummed that this was the first analysis I've seen of a capella music on your channel - I love a capella, though I'm not a follower of this group, and I'd been hoping to hear your thoughts on some of my favorites, but this sure makes it feel like we won't get to see that anytime soon. I love how deeply you analyze the performances you review, but the production choices made on this video meant that was really what you needed to talk about. I know all the major vocal bands have to constantly struggle to find the right balance between studio wizardry to compete with popular radio tastes and staying true to a capella. Thanks for staying true and honest in your analysis, though
Except that his "analysis" was completely wrong on a fundamental level. He complained about producer Jamey Ray using effects that were not even used on this recording.
When Jamey comes out and states that this is not what's happening then I will believe it. It's because of the studio setting that makes the viewers think that these are "live, unaltered recordings", because most people do not know how the process works. Until then...it's "too" perfect not to have some of this post production processing....but I still love it!!!@@driggs2821
I heard a bit of the new West Side Story and the trailers I've heard are awful. Ansel Elgort is Autotuned within an inch of his life, at least in the trailers I've listened to. They should just make these movies with Daleks. They have perfect pitch anyway, as everyone knows.
Keep in mind that all of the actors in the original West Side Story did not use their own voices and were lip syncing (except Rita Moreno who did some of her own singing, which she lip synced during the filming). I was disappointed when I found this out because I truly believed that those beautiful songs and voices were the real deal. It would have been a little better if they were lip syncing to their own pre- recorded voices, but someone else (who didn’t receive credits) did the singing.
@@rickiovine2170 I do keep that in mind. But automated pitch correction is destroying the soul of music. Something the original didn't suffer from. This allowed the beautiful tunes to literally sing through. The acting chops were well covered by the wonderful cast. I will wait to hear the new version in full and see how it goes, but I suspect I will be grinding my teeth at it.
@@rickiovine2170 but at least they were dubbed by other singers with ‘real’ voices. Marni Nixon was the voice of nearly every Hollywood musical actress for decades (she died recently, I believe), she wasn’t Natalie wood, but her voice was a real voice.
@@rickiovine2170 to have to lip sync to another singers great voice in a film is nothing new and has been done for many, many decades. But to lip sync in a film and have the original singers outstanding voices also auto tuned is a crime and should not be rewarded by watching the movie or listen to the music. Why produce music where the voices are altered with and they sound soul-/lifeless.
Every music produced and sold where the singers voice has been corrected through auto tune or pitch correction needs to be labeled "caution: the voice has been auto tuned/pitch corrected"
Please react to Home Free. It would be interesting to get your take on the band.
You should have a listen to Voces8 or even my favourite vocal "group" Tenebrae. Another fine video Fil.
Really interesting to see a vocal analysis of Acappella, (strangely) I always assume that I'm hearing their vocals untouched. Can you do an analysis of any Pentatonix performance, (only 5 voices) I love to see just how much of their sound is actually created in the studio.
Dude, if he's getting on Voctave this hard, who don't use pitch correction, he's going to hate any of the other groups that actually use it.
Concur
If you want to see/hear a recording of their vocals untouched, you'll have to rely on amateur recordings from people in the audience of a live show.
Always bear in mind that 99% of professional/official footage of live performances will have lots of post production added to it before being uploaded - such as an edited mix, added pitch correction on vocals, overdubbed instruments and vocals added in to certain parts etc.
Even if you're watching a live performance being streamed in real time, the mix you're hearing won't necessarily be the same as it sounds at the show.
I wish the music industry would stop using auto tune except for special effects like in Chers Believe
I hesitated before adding this comment because I think Fil actually believes everything he’s saying, however being a member of an a cappella group, we spend a lot of time rehearsing tuning and some of our coaches have pretty good ears so that The results may actually look auto tuned on the graph. I know that the arranger/leader/coach for this group is an experienced barbershop singer, and I’d take exception with Fil’s assumption that the pitch correction is that prominent. I’m not listening with ‘studio monitors’, but it doesn’t sound bad to me.
My second issue is with his assumption that hearing the solo in the center implies that it’s recorded separately. The other thing we learn in a cappella singing is to Balance against the Melody part or soloist, whether using one or multiple microphones.
Personally, I’d like to believe that they are just that good. Get over yourself.
Oh come on!!! I am very willing to believe they are actually very good but this video is very obviously not live...you can feel the disconnect.
The pitch correction is actually audible, before having it confirmed on a pitch monitor. But also singing naturally with a 0 cent deviation in pitch either way is something even Pavarotti couldn't achieve, for good reason. Through many, many analysis videos, even classical singers, it's impossible as singing with perfect pitch doesn't conform to equal temperament 440hz tuning, which is how the pitch correction here is being applied. Also, yes it is possible to blend voices and 'mix' voices naturally making one more prominent dynamically, but impossible to sing the wrong side of a condensor mic singing away from it and have it pick up the vocal as clearly as it comes across in the video. If you watch carefully, you can even see some of the vocal phrases aren't quite in sync with the singer singing them due to another take being used.
You might not agree with him, but you don't have to be so rude, Fil is never rude about the artists
@@W0rdsandMus1c too bad some of his fans isnt. He liked comments bodyshaming the singers, is that the definition of nice?
It's the only way everyone knows I've read their comment! I read every one.
This was extremely clear to me on this one. It sounds, to me? Like they did this, then ... "time washed" the voices? To make them sound like an old Disney, full choir. *Caution- brain hurt coming*- So, they wanted that sound? But with a modern flair.
LET THEM SING. LEAVE ARTISTS ALONE. STOP STRIPPING DNA, from VOCALISTS, lol- damn!
Love your passion!!👍✌️
Phil, I love the video, but don't be surprised if you go to Disney one day and find your on the Space Mountain "no fly list"
Hi Phil always love your reactions. Voctave really is an outstanding group. You just need to hear them live to see. If you really want to hear an amazing singer with spot on vocal pitch. Check out David Phelps " most resonant high notes" video. You'll be amazed.
Have you ever heard of The Real Group? They're a Swedish jazz A Cappella group. Been around since 1984. Great stuff. Highly recommend their stuff. Their live performance videos on youtube are incredible. One of those groups that is amazing in studio and even greater live.
Fil, thank you and now I am crying 😢. I can't listen to the radio anymore. I am a singer. I've worked to train my voice for 26 years, to hone my craft as a musician...I am sickened by the digitization of musicians in this manner. It's insidious and deceitful. What's more, it's without integrity. I just can't. I'm broken. (I will, however, continue to watch your videos 😉)
Please Don't! This is just the recording industry that is committing these travesties and they are well known for the cheapest way to get their product out. There are plenty of jobs for singers that can actually sing without any of these crutches. Don't be disheartened by this fakery you will still be able to sing as well as you do when the power goes off.
Cry no longer, this video is all crap. Voctave doesn't tune their recordings.
@@charliecampbell6851 Of all of the comments you could have made why did you make that to this one? Voctave certainly don't need you to White Knight for them and you won't get a medal for doing so.
Hi Phil... I'd love to hear you talk about Bob Dylan's rendition of Hard Times Come Again No More. I'm interested in the way he uses voice quality and color to tell the story, without messing with the melody or the timing.
I'd like to take a break from pitch perfection and pretty voices with analysis of singers like Dylan or maybe Tom Waits, Lou Reed, or Lucinda Williams. I love singers who use color and expression as much as those who have technique.
It would be interesting to compare some of the old acapella groups such as the Ink Spots or even Manhattan Transfer, to these more modern versions. Not in a these guys are good and those are bad. More like how do they approach arranging the music and how they use the voice as an instrument.
Well, the Manhattan Transfer rarely sang without accompaniment, so that would be an apples to oranges comparison. More relevant would be Singers Unlimited, who had several albums of a cappella performances, as well as a Christmas album that is on my permanent Christmas playlist. Bonnie Herman, Don Shelton, Gene Puerling, and Len Dresslar, all jingle singers in LA back in the 1970s, were the original lineup, and a couple of them had been members of The Hi-Los in the 1960s as well. A sample: th-cam.com/video/qGqSq4Ii5YY/w-d-xo.html
@@driggs2821 Yes you're right. I was working from memory of them in the seventies.
The look on your face says it all on this one!!
you should go see them live......you have no idea.
Yes I'm sure live they're great as it'll be purely their voices unedited, as I say in the video it's a shame this video is altered.
Another great video. There's all sorts of singers I'd like to see you do...one is The Seekers.
Fil, Please try Pentatonix! Hallelujah, 90’s Dance Medley, or Home Free singing End of the Road by Boyz to Men. I’m so excited to hear your thoughts on their particular voices.
Once again perfection becomes the enemy of the good. Will we never learn?
My thoughts:
I think when it comes down to it, they released this like any other singers and artists would do when they release their official videos: use auto tune. Yes, they may be talented enough to do it live, but there’s no difference or shame of them using it for their official video on TH-cam like others do, wanting it to be the best as possible for the public to listen to. It’s like saying it’s disappointing that Home Free or Pentatonix release a video simply because auto tune was used.
The way they do their videos is just their style, it’s not like they intend to trick you that no auto tune is used, heck, if you want to hear them live unedited, they have a few videos released saying “live performances” in the video title. If y’all need to, see them at their tours.. and if you want almost perfection (like completed edited produced songs like this) then by all means, you can find many songs like this and their other full released “official videos” here on TH-cam!
I think the problem is a lot of people don't understand how widespread it is and think this is live amd unedited. It's a shame, as music doesn't conform to 440hz tuning so live will always sound better or 'best', I don't know why so many singers don't understand this. Ironically trying to sound 'perfect' comes across as worse!
Fil, Fil, Fil: I'm getting there. Thanks to your analysis videos and examples of pitch correction and autotune I am getting educated. ANALYSIS SUGGESTION: compare original music videos to recent remastered versions of the same song. I started listening to a couple of original music videos done 30+ years ago by singer / songwriters and comparing them to TH-cam vids of the same song after it had been remastered in the last 5-10 years (James Taylor, Neil Young, Tracy Chapman, Billy Joe Armstrong). All three of these singers have what I would consider naturally resonate voices. [Not intentional vibrato, but 'resonate -- don't know how else to describe it.] Point is the remastered versions do sound different. And - as you have pointed out -- the vocals in the remasters have lost some of the resonate quality of the singers' voices. Well, that's my diagnosis.
That _is_ disappointing, but it shows why some technically superior performances can leave you cold. All my life I've attended community orchestra, band, quartet, etc., performances to support friends and family, and I always assumed my pride and support in them is why I often enjoyed their "imperfect" performance more than some professional recordings. I'm sure this is going to sound obvious to people who've been in the know for a long time, but as someone who only really started to understand the extent of pitch correction and such in the last year, the warmth and energy of unadulterated music simply is more authentic sounding and easier to connect with as an audience. Sigh.
It's how I felt happened to pentatonix after Avi left. They are still technically brialiant singers but it sounds incredibly stilted and non human.
Yes! Even the less developed skill levels of young students playing & singing together is just an altogether great experience. It’s something that connects the performers & their audience. There’s nothing that can replace the experience.
I couldn't agree more. I love the old traditional church hymns, but as sung by a local congregation, just about keeping it together. On the other hand, the perfect performances by professional choirs, with an "arrangement", seem to lose all the soul and the spirit of the music. "Perfection" is rarely better.
Another reason to go and see groups and singers live if possible and hopefully not have to experience the vocal manipulation. There is such a powerful human connection to a live unadulterated voice.
Even "live" isn't as advertised.
I have seen Voctave live on multiple occasions. They sound absolutely incredible. And it was clear that they were not using any sort of pitch correction then. To be honest it didn't sound hardly any different from the recordings, which blew me away the first time I heard them. They're truly fantastic musicians. If you get the chance, go see them, you won't regret it.
@@agiles95
Your check is in the mail.
@@20alphabet you're a joke. An absolute joke.
@@charliecampbell6851
What's wrong with you ?
It appears Millie Vanillie (sp?) was just ahead of their time.
Great tech you have! I see what you are saying. And if you can hear it, which I can't that is amazing.
I spent the first twelve years of my life listening to Salisbury Cathedral Choir, and then the Deller family (Alfred, Mark and the Deller Consort) rehearsing in our living room. After that formative experience, this video sounds quite ghastly. If you listen to Mike Wedgwood singing “Show of our Lives” with Caravan, you’ll not be surprised to know that it was recorded in two takes, unmodified.
You’ll also not be surprised to hear, Fil, that Mike Wedgwood was also the Head Chorister in Salisbury Cathedral.
I actively dislike this noise and it sounds auto-tuned, it really does.
Could you do a comparison of When a Man Loves a Woman sung by three different people: Percy Sledge, Micheal Bolton, and Home Free?.
These are good singers. But your critique is spot on.
The beauty of the human voice cannot be duplicated, but now you can fool around with a voice to where it no longer sounds human. PITY!
I enjoyed your critiques of Elvis, Roy, Judy, Barbara, Karen and also the Everly's. Their voices were very individual and Identifiable. Even when some tried to impersonat them, they always fell short, Like fine art, they were originals.
This music sounds just like what it is. It's from that perfect Disney, "MAKE BELIEVE, Some Day My Prince Will Come," world.
We can use some of the good put back in a lot of the areas in our lives, bot why do they need to keep to pushing perfection where it just doesn't fit.
I prefer to listen to the natural voice and not auto corrected or auto tuned which takes the feeling and soul and warmth out of the song
Have you ever analyzed Home Free? They are my favorite acapella band❤️
Would love to hear that. I also like Austin’s solos with Sebastian at the keyboard ❣️
Great lesson on what not to do. Put that product on elevator music. That’s the only time something will go up and down instead of being “dead on the line.”
You recently did a video on Dean Martin and the "flaws" are what made him such a treasure. "Perfect" is not perfect!
This is legit a music video so everyone just chill out. It’s a music video, not a live performance. So just enjoy the music, enjoy the arrangement, enjoy the story in the songs and in the characters in the voices. Thats obviously how they sound, as in thats obviously their vocal tone and colors. You legit CAN hear their humanity, so lets not critique them for clout or personal feelings of superiority.
Just chill out. This review was unnecessary, focus on their live performances, if thats your thing..this is literally a music video.
Was the expectation thought that we think this was a love audio? Tons of artists have these kind of video clips where they are seen in the studio, but it's obvious the track is edited for release
There are great singers who do not need autotune/pitch correction and there are singers like Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash who have less than perfect voices. Autotune and pitch correction only take away from what people can do naturally-warts and all.
I'd love to see you do something with Take 6. I have seen them live numerous times long before there was Melodyne or AutoTune. As far as I know, none have perfect pitch but their accuracy and the complexity of what they do harmonically is second to none. Sorry, Vocative is just an "also ran"
I find this very sad and disappointing. I can instantly hear auto tune/pitch correction in a recording. The soprano/s sound cartoonish! I can't stand this kind of "technology". This is not at all pleasing to my ear, at least. The human voice, at its best, is beautiful in its perfection as well as in its imperfection. I dislike the way vibrato is manipulated and .... I'll stop now. This is a hard pass from me! Thanks Fil.
Funny thing is, you can hear in their live performances they're just as good if not the same...so people like you pretending that these folks are nothing but "technology" laden voices is....amusing to say the least.
I'm a little confused. I thought you said that they aren't really singing live but a previously recorded track. You pointed out on the last soloist that she wasn't standing in front for the mic. At one point she looks up, and it seems someone instructs her to move forward which she does. You can definitely hear the volume increase as she moves forward. If she's not singing live, why does it matter where she stands and why would the volume increase when she gets closer to the mic? .....help!
Snow White...Sleeping Beauty.... Mulan.... Pocahontas.... Pinocchio Melody
These are all songs I love but there's no vulnerability in this track..a shame. Acapella means your voice and only your voice. However with pitch correction or autotune it's not their voice. This is really acapella?
Yes, it is. I'm no expert or music producer; I am a Voctave fan. That being said, I heard Kate Lott and Ashley Espinoza, two of the vocalists, back in September of 2021, in their time with Voices of Liberty. I've also seen TH-cam videos from audience members at performances where they sang on stage. I can tell you, after listening to all of that, these folks are just that insanely talented. I get that many artists today, or more likely producers, use pitch correction to clean up a track. That's just simply not the case here.
Now that I watch your channel, when we see videos like this, it totally sucks, because it's fake. I'd rather hear the real singing and mistakes, etc.. Thank you for all your insight, knowledge and education that you provide. It helps me to understand and enjoy music and what it means so much more
But it's not fake. There was no auto tune or pitch correction on this track. I know this firsthand, from the producer himself, Jamey Ray. WoP doesn't know what he's talking about.
I did not expect that!!! hmmm... I don't think they need it!
Firstly, thank you for your honesty here. I would have never known so much was going on. Very sad. I love the real voice and all that entails. Throw the gimmicks away! And secondly, thank you once again for teaching me something. Every time I come here seems to be a learning session for me. And I am here often!
Just wondering if you've watched Bo Burnham's "Can't Handle This -Kanye Rant" and what is your take on how Bo uses autotune so creatively in this particular performance?
Not yet!
You should give it a watch, it's a masterclass in using tech/auto tune creatively. Also don't be put off by the Kanye reference in the title or that Bo is generally labelled a comedian, he is, in actual fact, a musical genius. Despite requesting it, I didn't actually think you'd do an acappella analysis so thank you for listening. X
So true about the pitch correction. The chords suffer because of it. A real musician will automatically tune to the chord, not the note, and with the attempt at making the voices all sound on tune, the chords are flat and boring. A capella requires voices that are "off pitch" in the right way.
Have you heard Voces8? They are wonderful. May It Be, Bridge Over Troubled Water, A Nightingale Sang in Barkley Square etc. Check out their channel. Based in London.
I don't know if they use tuning on their recordings or if the videos are live. They do perform live but being in Canada I have never had the opportunity.
I second that. They are fantastic.
Thank You....I've been asking about them for some time. I was wondering just how they do it.
Please do an analysis of bass singer Geoff Castelucci. Thanks!
Fil, if you are digging into a cappella stuff, please have a listen to the Quebe Sisters. Tremendous singers and players doing bluegrass/swing material that is as pure as it gets. If you like Alison Krauss, you'll love the Quebes.
Looks like we're about one step away from a Milli Vanilli comeback tour.
Hi Fil
Yet another good video.
Can you look into Home free I reckon they use a lot of effects they’re voices just don’t seem completely natural to me
Listening to the pitch correction.....for some reason makes me think of the song "Mr. Roboto" they don't need any of the pitch correction etc they are fantastic all on their own
But isn’t this kind of what Disney would have wanted done to their songs when presented on the screen?
Thank you Fil for another outstanding lesson on why I find todays artist's talents questionable. I was watching a Rick Beato vid with him talking to a young lady about a LZ tune and her reason for not liking it was it didn't USE auto tune, it had a guitar solo, UNBELIEVABLE, smh. What a shame today's youth like this substandard crap. If you could check out any live performance on the Voice (America) that would be great. If they auto tune the contestants, that would be one more thing I wouldn't waste my time watching on TV. Janet from Louisiana ☮🖤🤘
I'd like to hear your analysis of Voiceplay and Geoff (low bass singer) videos.
I would love to hear your thoughts on Geoff Castelucci, Tim Foust, and Avi Kaplan, and whether or not any(or all) are using corrective software.
I love listening to a good Bass singer, but certain ones literally hurt my ears to listen to, and I'm wondering if pitch correction or Auto-Tune is to blame for the odd issue I'm having. Of the three I listed, only one vocalist is not causing the issue.
I also have a similar issue with certain Bass singers in groups. If it is Auto-Tune/pitch correction, it's both a revelation, and a shame, as it ruins the enjoyment of a good arrangement.
A lot of Basses in a cappella groups use an octavizer in post production to thicken the sound of their low notes.
That is interesting to know. Thank you.
What it is I'm hearing with especially one Bass singer in particular is a droning 'buzz' at the lowest growled note they do.
It's very jarring, almost like the effect when a speaker has blown and the bass notes pouring out of it does this odd crackling, buzzing noise out of the speaker because it's broken.
It's far worse with headphones, and soft volume.
I never get that issue with someone like Richard Anthony Sterban, Thurl Ravenscroft, or Tennessee Ernie Ford, and never even considered the post recording processes might be what's odd about them until watching Fil's analysis of waveforms.
Actually, they do no autotune. They all sing professionally at WaltDisneyWorld live without mics so they are that good. Maybe go see them live and you will see. Live they actually sound better.
Try listening to “Where are you Christmas?” When they use A little boy to sing a part and you can tell the difference between his voice and theirs, and you will see. Most of these people have advanced music degrees and have worked on their voices for years. There are some recordings of them live in concert online, you will see. Obviously you are not a professional a cappella singer and haven’t sung this way for years. Tiffany, the second soprano to sing, has been at Disney since the 80s and CJ, one of the basses longer than that.
Yes I said that live they won't sound like this, but this is definitely pitch corrected unfortunately so we don't hear their live sound.
i would guess all the acapella groups do this to their stuff
I'm curious if even g. castellucci, the guy that explaines what to do to produce the deep bass voice vocally, uses that
I think G. Castellucci and/or other members of VoicePlay have openly admitted that they have 'tweaked' and 'done tricks' to vocal tracks in post production in order to reach a desired effect and impact. I bet that includes some pitch correction, too.
If anything, Voctave uses the least amount of pitch correction amongst the bigger modern a cappella groups. Voiceplay uses way more than you hear here.