They have gotten first dibs on Korean talent for so many years that the first time they don't win in free agency, they're acting like petulant children
This is why I appreciate Thorin waiting until most/all of the information is out and then dropping the massive video breaking it all down. I don't want to watch 3 separate hype-beast videos in a row from Yamato or Dom just trying to farm extra clicks from the ongoing drama. 1 big breakdown video from the best in the game is what I like. Although, I might eventually go back and see if the others had any different takes to add to the situation.
Yeah the fan response is absolutely insane and none of it is based on complete information. Tried to fill in a key gap for them, but no one cared and it just got downvoted and ignored. I don't understand why people absolutely refuse to qualify and put into context the things they hear second and third hand. I saw people saying it was malpractice and equal to extortion from Zeus and his agent, even. The truth is that this is all just a nothingburger, T1 dropped the ball and are either sore losers for it or trying to save face because they're afraid of fan backlash and the agent is responding because of that same backlash - they even said 'please stop being mean because wtf'. Neither T1 or the agent should need to put out PR statements... it's just so fucking stupid and at the end of the day, the choice was Zeus' and he chose HLE.
@@hmj9783 he sounds like he's getting paid by Zeus and the agency. It's funny how he paints T1 as slave owners when T1 is known to be the org that treats it's players the best. While at the same time backing an unknown agency who he saids will never lie to protect it's "stellar" reputation.😂😂😂😂 Cause all agents are angels and trustworthy, right?
Btw the fact that Hanwha just basically went "Hi we would like to offer Zeus great contract terms with a world-class salary and contract length befitting of the player and his Legacy. Also we currently plan to keep the rest of the roster (insane roster)". and then just was like "we would like to have a response before 3PM on the opening of the transfer market to make sure we dont miss any other players". Like here is a interesting thing people dont think about. If HLE wanted to give T1 the time for a counteroffer (Which they dont lmao), thenthey would have to be super shady to Doran. Like they would have to effectively act like, to another insane regional player btw, like he still had a spot. The thing here is just... HLE didnt really do anything wrong. The agency sort of abided by the terms that their TOP BIDDER HLE was giving them (They were not unreasonable) and then communicating intent to T1. T1 fails to meet contract obligations, and as a last resort seemingly wanted the personal meeting, which HLE didnt want cause they need an answer. Then HLE AND Zeus + Agency waits 40 more minutes for you to give a communication or meet their conditions (not a counteroffer, meet their stated conditions) and they get a counteroffer or a "wait bro". This isnt the last day of your exam and you rushing to study last minute, your a MASSIVE company and a legacy esports organisation... and this is how contract negotiations are conducted? And if you didnt wanna meet HLEs offer cause that wouldnt be profitable... thats fine? This is the way sports work. Not everyone is Totti, not everyone is Billy Bean. He was loyal based on these findings, but they just didnt manage to acquire him. Whether thats due to internal processes or external pressure from HLE and the Agency doesnt matter. Review, learn, change processes and move on. Dont go on a crusade against a player who was nearly a 2x worlds MVP.
I don't understand why this concept of a "verbal agreement" is always brought up in LoL. A player just saying "I guess I'll play for you" doesn't mean anything beyond them just being willing to stick around given the current situation. If you think that's binding in any way then lmao.
I think it’s like before any negotiations/contracts they just asked if he would like to stay and he said yes. Then T1 decided to keep lowballing him thinking Zeus would stay no matter what
@@yegor576 high highs and low lows. They don't call him zeShy for nothing. Still better than Doran but we will see if he gets Faker buff and we will see if Zeus shits the bed without Faker controlling him.
Yeah this is the problem with written communication. There is so much wiggle room for interpretation that this can become a massive drama. Honestly fans should be always rooting for the player over the orgs. Look at the edg fans that supported Deft on his worlds win run. They loved the guy and might have been upset but supported his descisions.
Even if this whole shenanigan didn't happen, its evident that Zeus is the most obvious player to leave t1. We almost saw it when he dragged out the process of resigning with t1 in 2023 when the presence of LPL bag is in the market. It even come to his own mouth that he are willing to leave the team if the price is right, literally in a korean show, out of all the members, he's the one who are actively chase the bag. That's why the idea that T1 lowballed him, is kinda off considering that T1 knows that Zeus is the most unstable to retain in that group. I think the problem lies when t1 doesn't all in on their first negotiation, which is not even outrageous thing to do, considering that they already retaining another big contract for keria and oner, and paying faker, whose contract is literally biggest in the league, literally they are jusy operating like a business entity, not putting all the chips in its first negotiation.
it makes zero sense for Zeus to leave T1 if the money was right. 400k isnt even much for T1, whose fees are managed by SKT's foundation according to everyone who spouts the same nonsense when LCk cap is mentioned; better yet T1's salary cap is arbitrarily doubled compared to the rest of LCk teams, already showing bias given to T1 from Riot. Why cant T1 even cough up that extra 400k? Because they low balled Zeus and tried to make him sign unfavorable contract.
This is what I’ve been saying. If T1 wanted Zeus, they could’ve gotten him. Instead of dropping the bag off the bat, they tried to squeeze the contract. Both are fine tactics, but maybe not if you’ve dumped a bunch of money on branding that needs the player to stay….They fumbled the contract, simple as that. I can see fans deep in the kool-aid thinking that just being on T1 is enough to convince someone to take lower pay, but surely the org didn’t also think that would be enough too.
Joe Marsh self reported so bad when he bagged on the agent for ‘having a history of valuing money over x’ >absolutely did not offer the requested contract
Oh my god this is amazing proof how much T1 org and T1 fans deserve each other. Glad Zeus is free of that, well, sort of free, let's hope some T1 mental doesn't jump on him after HLE eliminates T1
So basically Zeus and his agent did exactly what they are allowed to do, and T1 the organization and T1 fans are angry because of entitlement issues. What a surprise.
Not really. The inconsistencies are with the Agency's statements. How is it a lowball if the offer is within range of the actual contract signed? Besides it doesnt matter anyway because Negotiations usually start low then you start working towards the compromise offer. This is why its called contract negotiations. Take note this is an agency with bad history in the Nuguri situation. You dont get why T1 is angry. Its not about entitlement. Marin left for money, didnt receive any backlash. Someone who back then felt like the most important player in T1. Why? Because he told the team straight up "I wanna leave". No drama, no ghosting, no lies. All of old T1 players are well-loved and still cheered for and welcomed. Bang, Wolf, Huni, Peanut, Mata, Sky etc. You didn't think that the exception to the rule is the anomaly? Why Zeus situation is different? I'll tell you why, because the agency or Zeus wasn't upfront. Even in their own timeline they gave its ridiculous. 10 minutes for a counteroffer? They had all the time in the world. Hanwa didn't set the deadline as the agency claimed. You think they will put up a "no-comment" if what Joe Marsh said isn't true? If what he said wasn't true they'd be quick to deny that. And Joe know better than to misquote a company the size of Hanwa Life Insurance. The only reason why they said no-comment because its a non-answer, acknowledging the truth will hurt their own player. You guys are so ready to believe the worse case for T1, its disgusting you didn't even give it much thought. As well as the three clown creators who pretend to look at things objectively but is just farming T1 hatred for content (because let's be real, without that they offer nothing to the table). They don't get why the likes of Caedrel gets views (tiktok my ass Monte, you are just obnoxious and toxic)
@@cardmasher4265 "How is it a lowball if the offer is within range of the actual contract signed?" The offer may not be anywhere near the actual contract signed. Yes they are both 1+1 contracts but we do not know who had the choice of extension on the T1 contract. We know the HLE contract is player choice. 1+1 Player Choice is literally the best most powerful contract in all of esports. 1+1 Team choice is literal dogshit; one of the worst contracts possible as it allows a team to extend your contract to jail you if you so wish and stops you from being able to re-test the market if you have your best year ever locking you in at the current rate. Now if it comes out the T1 contract was also player choice fair. But that hasn't been disclosed so going around saying the contracts were the same is bad faith at best and outright malicious at worst.
In germany, a verbal agreement is a legal contact. But it's the same with a written contract if there is no proof it was agreed on. There is nothing u can do/enforce. So yes, Germany has verbal agreements as legal in theory, but if u don't record the conversation, it's nothing too
I was so worried about T1 for next year. But thankfully Thorin came in clutch with this video. Can rest easy now knowing the universe itself will bend over backwards to spite Thorin by making T1 still win.
A benefit I have as a new league player is I don't really follow a team I might root for a team like t1 in the final but I can just enjoy good lol without getting to invested.
I would recommend not commenting your opinion on which team played better... ever. If you say X team or player played better today that means you are the biggest player/team X glazer/fanboy and you hate and think their opponent sucks, always sucked and is worse than trash. Welcome to the league of legends community.
TLDR: T1 grossly mismanaged the reaquisition of Zeus. If they were truly ready/able to match any offer as Joe said, they would have just matched HLE's offer. Either they wouldn't match (incompetence), or couldnt match. The agent/agency did literally nothing outside the norm of contract negotiations Literally anyone who has any amount of experience with traditional sports would know stuff like this is just part of free agency. These leverage tactics are not only commonplace in ANY high stakes contract negotiation, but especially in the sports contract world, they are pretty much industry standard. It sounds to me like Zeus's agent Got him exactly what he wanted. He finessed SKT to drive up his market value to HLE, meanwhile SKT was arrogantly nickel and diming the financials and length of contract through the course of 5+ offers/counteroffers. One thing to note that I havn't heard others discussing is in Joe's own words "Our intent was to make sure all of our players got the highest salary for their position". Why is everyone assuming that Zeus is only worth the highest current salary for a top laner? According to HLE he is worth 400k MORE then that. Player agencies would now use this contract as precedent for the market value of the best top laner in korea. Or at least they would if contracts were public info lol (never gonna happen, sorry all future top laners)
So how did SKT secure Faker, Guma, Oner, Keria? Are you sure Zeus was being the dumb snake here who will lose out on $$$$ because of his stupid move. Who knows if HLE will win worlds ever and who knows they will stick around. Samsung sold their league team after winning 2x and going to finals 3x. Only way this is a win for Zeus if at the very least he wins 3x worlds in a roll and becomes faker 2.0. That ain't happening.
@Marek7_ Korean esports especially T1 doesn't compare to NBA. Every pro gamer says goal is to get on T1 and stay there Zeus is not only selfish but dumb like thorin's take here. For Zeus to do better than last year, he needs to win worlds 3x straight, then become Faker. He won't do shit Anything he does this year and for the rest of his career will be a failure. He won't the lottery and threw the ticket away.
@Marek7_ and look what happened to Kawhi since 2019.... Also, it don't compare to Zofgk dominance. Zeus might be playing in NA in a few years with HLE completely out of the league scene.
@@leaguefixesyourmatches8259 ah yes. Zeus must be selfish and greedy because he made the best choice for his career 😂. HLE is a much better team than T1 rn, and he got a longer contract and 400k higher salary.
The Zeus Heresy: -Faker is Big E, sitting on the Golden Throne forced to be sacrificed one million T1 fans daily to sustain his powers lest the legacy of T1 die. -Joe Marsh is Sanguinius, dead on the ground after Zeus's betrayal. -Oner, the reliable, loyal defensive wall is Rogal Dorn. -Gumayusi, the aggressive bot lane carry is Leman Russ because he always had a bit of that dog in him. -Keria is Jaghatai Khan because he just wants to roam and kill freely (alternatively could be Alpharius Omegon because we're not 100% sure if he's loyalist or not, lmao).
@@DoctorDucky250I don't know about Joa Marsh being Sangi.. He isn't exactly beloved by everybody 😂 maybe he's Manis, getting his head chopped off because in his anger he forgot all strategy 😄 Also would that make the Agend Erebus? 🤔
@@THEkullerpuller I'm cool with Joe Marsh being the first casualty of the Heresy. Who would Zeus slay on his flagship to stoke the wrath of Faker? Bengi? Lol.
Hey Thorin, the crusade of top CEO/Fame guys playing video game while in important meeting is like Elon Musk playing Diablo 4 while Engineer is in a meeting with him talking about how Rocket was 1 second away from disaster, somehow everyone loves him. But the guy who ran FTX got sent to prison got memed on playing League of Legends in meetings. LOL
All this speculation all the time. Every year it’s boasted that this and this team wins but all depends on team‘s chemistry no matter how good the individual players are. HLE and Gen.G are certainly hungry but whether all teams with their changes - albeit not a lot in 2025 - will click has to be seen first. It is particularly true for Zeus as he has never played for another team than T1. Every season there are many surprises. I am interested to see how DPlus Kia will do and their very young and talented homegrown toplaner Siwoo …
I love this video, because the story sounds like "T1 is trying to use hype and branding to trick a player into taking much less salary." Who cares about ZOFGK now we have DOFGK. Makes T1(I would say Joe Marsh) sound very greedy. Sounds like they bribe and spoil (like a private chef) their players while paying them much less money then deserves. Have you seen Joe Marsh at Worlds he treats the players like they're babies and not human beings. This just makes Joe Marsh sound like a douche and an idiot. Got what he deserves. Also makes T1 sound like they weren't interested and in no way wanted to pay what Zeus wanted. Sorry T1 fans but Joe Marsh didn't care about your precious ZOFGK. That was hoping for you. Happy for Zeus and HLE. Aren't we tired of seeing the same team when Worlds every year? Would be nice to see a new org like HLE win one.
Its not fun when a team just throws money at something and expects it to work, HLE has history of being very sus on their deals and salaries overcoming the stablished cap, if HLE makes it work it will be overall unhealthy for the scene.
Are you dense. Zofgk would have made T1 $$$$$. Having to cancel/refund zofgk set them back for years. Even if T1 was evil, they would have given whatever Zeus wanted cause it hugely benefits T1. Also, Zeus was leaving anyway. When players want more $$$/terms they hold out and WAIT for weeks. Zeus signed within one day of free agency. He wanted out and who knows if HLE exists in 3 years. Remember even Samsung sold their lol team after winning worlds 2x? Now Samsung is T1's sponsor.
The damage is unfortunately done. The fanbase was weaponized against Zeus and his agent through the leak. Justice would be a defamation suit against the T1 org. Well played to Zeus.
can we just all agree on the fact t1 should had offerd a big bag for all the obvious reasons. for a team having so much money they being cheapskates to everyone except faker. misplayed boys xd
That's not how proper negotiations are done though. As someone making the offer, T1 should start with an offer that it wants, expecting for Zeus to counter-offer and eventually having to pay higher. Offering very high from the start would have put them in a weak position.
@@justice2708 how did that turn out in the end though? Lol. If T1 really wanted Zeus to stay, these "negotiations" would have been done a long time ago. All of the other players had their contracts finalized, but Zeus. Why was he saved for last? He should have been the first. Guess they did not find him as important to the team. 🤣
@@Invictus-Solaris they were all done around the same time?1 week b4 the free agency as announced for the re-sign of other members? just that zeus and his agent wanted to go FA to test the market
@@Invictus-Solaris idk if you have ever done negotiations related to price before... but an important component of any negotiation is what other interested parties are willing to pay. T1 (at least by Joe's AMA) doesn't know what other teams are offering. Without info on this, how would T1 be able to match other offers? Especially of what Joe said is true, which is that Zeus's agent doesn't share any counteroffer of his own. Really just seems that Zeus has his mind on HLE from the start, and taking T1 for a ride :).
@justice2708 if they wanted Zeus they would have given him what he wanted. It was said they didn't present "counter offers," they would have made an original offer that T1 tried to negotiate. You say T1 doesn't want to negotiate from a position of weakness like they ever had a strong position. The moment they let Zeus hit FA they had 0 leverage.
I don't think T1 sues, it's already a massive resource waste after getting a loss from a marketing standpoint that you lost one of the reasons the team is profitable. Unless T1 have solid evidence of their call logs to prove they got fucked by the agency then there's no point pursuing this.
@@waffen98 I agree with the part that The Play didn't do anything illegal but saying that T1 lost in a negotiation is kinda wrong since they weren't allowed to have an actual negotiation LOL
@@williamrupnick5861 all of it is hearsay from both party. Unless Zeus tells exactly what happened we will never know who actually is at fault and like I said there's no point, at the end of the day Zeus got a slightly worse deal from HLE than what they started but a good deal nonetheless. I mean the man is young, Ruler went back to GEN. What's stopping T1 from offering another one to Zeus in the upcoming years, Zeus is not the end of the world for T1. It's their midlaner Faker who should worry T1 if he wants to retire after his contract ends.
T1 was mediocre with Zeus as well, they always just stepped up during worlds, Zeus is obviously better than Doran but It's really not as big of a difference as you make it out to be.
The strangest thing is out of all the people you can lowball...why would you do it for Zeus? The only equal players to him are Bin and Kiin. You can't replace Faker obviously but you can definitely play the negotiation game with Oner, Gumayusi or Keria. These three players can be replaced; not easily, but it's possible. The bottleneck is clearly Zeus and the pool of top laners as good as him. If you couldn't see that and prioritize Zeus, it's just skill issue 🤷
as far as we know T1 has repeatedly said they got no response on counteroffers and could not get in contact with zeus. They wanted to pay any amount to be honest as long as Zeus signed but timing got to close to the line. It is telling when Zeus wanted a 2 year contract and his agent is complaining about 1+1 but then he signs a 1 year with HLE. if Zeus actually relied on map macro that is handled by keria and faker, then he will lose value.
33:29 well they DID try to sign Zeus way earlier but as stated before, the agency stalled (which is obviously within their rights). This argument/analogy doesn't seem very thought through.
Throin is wrong though... U cant just simply give zeus a raise as t1.. its more deeper then that If u do give him it..the other 3 would demand the same raise.. and it would close the Gap between fakers pay and the other 4..then u need to up fakers too... Running a organization is not as simple as throin make it out to be...
Thorin sounds so stupid about other T1 players not checking their market value. It's always about money, why go to another team when you have a good brand in your current one. Massive L, this is so hard to listen to because of the clear bias.
I feel like any t1 related video produced by thorin and iwd will not be as reliable as others considering that they are doing this out of spite from the org and the fanbase, like it hard to trust whether or not the are doing this in pursuit of truth or just of out spite.
lmfao, "good brand" my ass, he now can win it all this year while being paid more, less stress and make an even better resume and legacy, players want to WIN and get PAID while doing so
Who is benefiting from the branding the most? Zeus? Faker? No, it's not the players. It's the organization. T1 is making the money from the branding. Unless the players are getting an actual cut of the merch sales based on the branding that wouldn't be possible without them, the branding only means something to T1, their merchandise, execs, and fans. I don't think the players need to consider that when looking for a better contract.
when it comes to T1, getting an unbias take will be difficult. from my experience, there's no middle ground with T1, you either have fans that excuse T1 no matter what or the T1 detractors who aren't willing to give T1 the benefit of the doubt. but it's good to have both sides of the equation to come to a proper conclusion.
@@yjchong8587 he's playing devil's advocate to get views. Innocent Zeus who "tried so hard to stay on T1" then signs with HLE on first day of FA...."I will never. Leave T1"
like zeus is not bad, but he also had bad times, everyone forgets TF top and ad kennen top which did poorly which were zeus's choice in picks. its why everyone joked its zeshy. we will see how zeus is on HLE.
So 20 y.o. player who in conversation for goat in he’s role, the only one similar is Chinese, player that you could re-sing all year long in the end didn’t get contract he wants. I’ll understand everything, but if t1 was rly interested in Zeus, knowing that teams would throw bags in to him in offseason, they could re-sign him long time ago. That’s look like they don’t want to spend on him at all, they only mad is because they can’t sign kiin, but why they so sure kiin would leave better team for t1, huh?
It's because T1 thinks they are the best and pinnacle company for any esports player. That hubris is what caused them to misplay their cards with Zeus. If they really valued ZOFGK leading into worlds, they'd already strike contracts with all members beforehand not wait until Zeus is on FA. People need to stop infantilizing the players as though they are too stupid to make a decision. Most likely Zeus 2023 during FA made a decision to stay with T1, but got tired of the k-pop idolness outside of the game of League, so this Zeus 2024 FA he isn't going to make the same mistake.
If this drama taught me anything, it is that T1 has gotten way too comfortable always getting exactly what they want.
Yeah the more you think about T1’s complaints, the less sense they make. They act very entitled and expect everyone else to treat them like royalty.
They have gotten first dibs on Korean talent for so many years that the first time they don't win in free agency, they're acting like petulant children
I want to imagine African villages decked out in ZOFGK 2025 merchandise. 😆
That would be sick
It wouldn't even be the first time in LoL history, Excel sent their unsold merch to Africa a while ago lol
This is why I appreciate Thorin waiting until most/all of the information is out and then dropping the massive video breaking it all down. I don't want to watch 3 separate hype-beast videos in a row from Yamato or Dom just trying to farm extra clicks from the ongoing drama. 1 big breakdown video from the best in the game is what I like. Although, I might eventually go back and see if the others had any different takes to add to the situation.
He is just hating T1 as usual and now praises Zeus because he left for HLE.
@@hmj9783 you are actually delusional please see a psychiatrist for your hallucinations
Yeah the fan response is absolutely insane and none of it is based on complete information. Tried to fill in a key gap for them, but no one cared and it just got downvoted and ignored. I don't understand why people absolutely refuse to qualify and put into context the things they hear second and third hand. I saw people saying it was malpractice and equal to extortion from Zeus and his agent, even. The truth is that this is all just a nothingburger, T1 dropped the ball and are either sore losers for it or trying to save face because they're afraid of fan backlash and the agent is responding because of that same backlash - they even said 'please stop being mean because wtf'. Neither T1 or the agent should need to put out PR statements... it's just so fucking stupid and at the end of the day, the choice was Zeus' and he chose HLE.
This is such a dumb comment
@@hmj9783 he sounds like he's getting paid by Zeus and the agency. It's funny how he paints T1 as slave owners when T1 is known to be the org that treats it's players the best. While at the same time backing an unknown agency who he saids will never lie to protect it's "stellar" reputation.😂😂😂😂 Cause all agents are angels and trustworthy, right?
3 hour T1 trashing video dropped just in time for my gaming session. Nice
Btw the fact that Hanwha just basically went "Hi we would like to offer Zeus great contract terms with a world-class salary and contract length befitting of the player and his Legacy. Also we currently plan to keep the rest of the roster (insane roster)". and then just was like "we would like to have a response before 3PM on the opening of the transfer market to make sure we dont miss any other players". Like here is a interesting thing people dont think about. If HLE wanted to give T1 the time for a counteroffer (Which they dont lmao), thenthey would have to be super shady to Doran. Like they would have to effectively act like, to another insane regional player btw, like he still had a spot.
The thing here is just... HLE didnt really do anything wrong. The agency sort of abided by the terms that their TOP BIDDER HLE was giving them (They were not unreasonable) and then communicating intent to T1. T1 fails to meet contract obligations, and as a last resort seemingly wanted the personal meeting, which HLE didnt want cause they need an answer. Then HLE AND Zeus + Agency waits 40 more minutes for you to give a communication or meet their conditions (not a counteroffer, meet their stated conditions) and they get a counteroffer or a "wait bro". This isnt the last day of your exam and you rushing to study last minute, your a MASSIVE company and a legacy esports organisation... and this is how contract negotiations are conducted?
And if you didnt wanna meet HLEs offer cause that wouldnt be profitable... thats fine? This is the way sports work. Not everyone is Totti, not everyone is Billy Bean. He was loyal based on these findings, but they just didnt manage to acquire him. Whether thats due to internal processes or external pressure from HLE and the Agency doesnt matter. Review, learn, change processes and move on. Dont go on a crusade against a player who was nearly a 2x worlds MVP.
I don’t think anyone is implying that HLE did anything wrong. From what I’ve seen it’s he said she said with the Agency vs T1.
The funniest thing is the automatic assumption that Kiin would join T1 over Gen.G.
True, no sane players would go to Trash1. This organization treat their players as shit. That's why players want to leave the team.
@@CapstheTrueGOATofLoL649look at your id lololol
I don't understand why this concept of a "verbal agreement" is always brought up in LoL. A player just saying "I guess I'll play for you" doesn't mean anything beyond them just being willing to stick around given the current situation. If you think that's binding in any way then lmao.
Telling that you wanna leave when season is not over yet, quite stupid idea in any sport and could turn worse for you
I think it’s like before any negotiations/contracts they just asked if he would like to stay and he said yes. Then T1 decided to keep lowballing him thinking Zeus would stay no matter what
@@leaguefixesyourmatches8259 you’re such a crybaby. All you’ve done is whine on every comment.
@@leaguefixesyourmatches8259 zeus got more money, zeus happy, T1 lost zeus, T1 sad
@@yandenditt lol. Is HLE gonna be around in 3 years? Zeus going to NA?
This is going to take me multiple days to finish, but I’m watching the entire thing.
Hey Thorin, since we got a vid for the Los Ratones, can we expect one for Dom and Yamato's team as well?
is dat confirmed to happen ?
What does that have to do with T1 and the topic of Zeus? This is an important video showing you the greed of T1s management.
@@sodaron and I made another comment relevant to the topic as well. Not all comments on a video will be relevant to the video.
Watching this again on youtube because it's too good. This is the content we pay for, cooking frauds alive
Where else did u watch it
Most fun sh*t, it’s t1 fans who runs around and convinces everyone that Zeus was holding them back and they upgrade roaster right now
@@yegor576 high highs and low lows. They don't call him zeShy for nothing. Still better than Doran but we will see if he gets Faker buff and we will see if Zeus shits the bed without Faker controlling him.
Yeah this is the problem with written communication. There is so much wiggle room for interpretation that this can become a massive drama. Honestly fans should be always rooting for the player over the orgs. Look at the edg fans that supported Deft on his worlds win run. They loved the guy and might have been upset but supported his descisions.
Even if this whole shenanigan didn't happen, its evident that Zeus is the most obvious player to leave t1. We almost saw it when he dragged out the process of resigning with t1 in 2023 when the presence of LPL bag is in the market. It even come to his own mouth that he are willing to leave the team if the price is right, literally in a korean show, out of all the members, he's the one who are actively chase the bag.
That's why the idea that T1 lowballed him, is kinda off considering that T1 knows that Zeus is the most unstable to retain in that group. I think the problem lies when t1 doesn't all in on their first negotiation, which is not even outrageous thing to do, considering that they already retaining another big contract for keria and oner, and paying faker, whose contract is literally biggest in the league, literally they are jusy operating like a business entity, not putting all the chips in its first negotiation.
it makes zero sense for Zeus to leave T1 if the money was right. 400k isnt even much for T1, whose fees are managed by SKT's foundation according to everyone who spouts the same nonsense when LCk cap is mentioned; better yet T1's salary cap is arbitrarily doubled compared to the rest of LCk teams, already showing bias given to T1 from Riot.
Why cant T1 even cough up that extra 400k? Because they low balled Zeus and tried to make him sign unfavorable contract.
This is what I’ve been saying. If T1 wanted Zeus, they could’ve gotten him. Instead of dropping the bag off the bat, they tried to squeeze the contract. Both are fine tactics, but maybe not if you’ve dumped a bunch of money on branding that needs the player to stay….They fumbled the contract, simple as that. I can see fans deep in the kool-aid thinking that just being on T1 is enough to convince someone to take lower pay, but surely the org didn’t also think that would be enough too.
3 hours? Thorin really has been thinking
3 hour thorins thoughts?? bring it on brother
3 Hours of laughter, let it begin!
Joe Marsh self reported so bad when he bagged on the agent for ‘having a history of valuing money over x’
>absolutely did not offer the requested contract
Seeing both statments from either side looks like t1 wanted him for cheap or didnt want to agree to the years
T1 was offering a competitive offer matching HLE? Where is the cheap offer angle coming from. The 1+1 contract was also offered by HLE?
@@w1nterf0x_19 1+1 player option from HLE
@@w1nterf0x_19did you listen to any of this video?
I'd highly recommend so you can educate yourself
Oh my god this is amazing proof how much T1 org and T1 fans deserve each other.
Glad Zeus is free of that, well, sort of free, let's hope some T1 mental doesn't jump on him after HLE eliminates T1
a 3 hour long thorins thoughts holy moley, this might have to be a monday work podcast
the moment they said they wanted to meet after the deadline I couldn't take them seriously
The emphasis on "delta" is such a great throwback to SI episode 76. Did anyone ever win the Riot Syntax Symposium?
So basically Zeus and his agent did exactly what they are allowed to do, and T1 the organization and T1 fans are angry because of entitlement issues. What a surprise.
Not really. The inconsistencies are with the Agency's statements. How is it a lowball if the offer is within range of the actual contract signed? Besides it doesnt matter anyway because Negotiations usually start low then you start working towards the compromise offer. This is why its called contract negotiations. Take note this is an agency with bad history in the Nuguri situation.
You dont get why T1 is angry. Its not about entitlement. Marin left for money, didnt receive any backlash. Someone who back then felt like the most important player in T1. Why? Because he told the team straight up "I wanna leave". No drama, no ghosting, no lies. All of old T1 players are well-loved and still cheered for and welcomed. Bang, Wolf, Huni, Peanut, Mata, Sky etc. You didn't think that the exception to the rule is the anomaly? Why Zeus situation is different? I'll tell you why, because the agency or Zeus wasn't upfront. Even in their own timeline they gave its ridiculous. 10 minutes for a counteroffer? They had all the time in the world. Hanwa didn't set the deadline as the agency claimed. You think they will put up a "no-comment" if what Joe Marsh said isn't true? If what he said wasn't true they'd be quick to deny that. And Joe know better than to misquote a company the size of Hanwa Life Insurance. The only reason why they said no-comment because its a non-answer, acknowledging the truth will hurt their own player.
You guys are so ready to believe the worse case for T1, its disgusting you didn't even give it much thought. As well as the three clown creators who pretend to look at things objectively but is just farming T1 hatred for content (because let's be real, without that they offer nothing to the table). They don't get why the likes of Caedrel gets views (tiktok my ass Monte, you are just obnoxious and toxic)
@@cardmasher4265
"How is it a lowball if the offer is within range of the actual contract signed?"
The offer may not be anywhere near the actual contract signed.
Yes they are both 1+1 contracts but we do not know who had the choice of extension on the T1 contract. We know the HLE contract is player choice. 1+1 Player Choice is literally the best most powerful contract in all of esports. 1+1 Team choice is literal dogshit; one of the worst contracts possible as it allows a team to extend your contract to jail you if you so wish and stops you from being able to re-test the market if you have your best year ever locking you in at the current rate.
Now if it comes out the T1 contract was also player choice fair. But that hasn't been disclosed so going around saying the contracts were the same is bad faith at best and outright malicious at worst.
@cardmasher4265
L take clown.
HLE doesn't need to comment because they WON.
Why would they create drama?
T1 fans are so delusional its hilarious.
In germany, a verbal agreement is a legal contact. But it's the same with a written contract if there is no proof it was agreed on. There is nothing u can do/enforce.
So yes, Germany has verbal agreements as legal in theory, but if u don't record the conversation, it's nothing too
I was so worried about T1 for next year. But thankfully Thorin came in clutch with this video. Can rest easy now knowing the universe itself will bend over backwards to spite Thorin by making T1 still win.
The AMA is just Architect of Korean E-Sports, Based Joe Marsh being Architect of Korean E-Sports, Based Joe Marsh. Love it
man, the thumbnail bangs
We T1 fans got cucked, its over
sorry, but I'm only taking a 23+1 yr contract.
Thorin is the f ing GOAT who else would give us a 3hr breakdown, ❤
Guy can drop a video within a week about some random Twitter drama but that rekkles video he swears is coming for years he still can’t drop
Just stay patient... it will be glorious
Mega vid, been waiting on this
Fuck sake, I did not expect Thorin to drop the Horus Heresy reference, that one got me good.
A benefit I have as a new league player is I don't really follow a team I might root for a team like t1 in the final but I can just enjoy good lol without getting to invested.
I would recommend not commenting your opinion on which team played better... ever.
If you say X team or player played better today that means you are the biggest player/team X glazer/fanboy and you hate and think their opponent sucks, always sucked and is worse than trash.
Welcome to the league of legends community.
Idk why they didn't just sign Zika the lpl top laner and not have to cancel the merch preorder
TLDR: T1 grossly mismanaged the reaquisition of Zeus. If they were truly ready/able to match any offer as Joe said, they would have just matched HLE's offer. Either they wouldn't match (incompetence), or couldnt match. The agent/agency did literally nothing outside the norm of contract negotiations
Literally anyone who has any amount of experience with traditional sports would know stuff like this is just part of free agency. These leverage tactics are not only commonplace in ANY high stakes contract negotiation, but especially in the sports contract world, they are pretty much industry standard. It sounds to me like Zeus's agent Got him exactly what he wanted. He finessed SKT to drive up his market value to HLE, meanwhile SKT was arrogantly nickel and diming the financials and length of contract through the course of 5+ offers/counteroffers. One thing to note that I havn't heard others discussing is in Joe's own words "Our intent was to make sure all of our players got the highest salary for their position". Why is everyone assuming that Zeus is only worth the highest current salary for a top laner? According to HLE he is worth 400k MORE then that. Player agencies would now use this contract as precedent for the market value of the best top laner in korea. Or at least they would if contracts were public info lol (never gonna happen, sorry all future top laners)
So how did SKT secure Faker, Guma, Oner, Keria? Are you sure Zeus was being the dumb snake here who will lose out on $$$$ because of his stupid move. Who knows if HLE will win worlds ever and who knows they will stick around. Samsung sold their league team after winning 2x and going to finals 3x.
Only way this is a win for Zeus if at the very least he wins 3x worlds in a roll and becomes faker 2.0. That ain't happening.
Like these T1 fans couldn't handle any sports free agency. I'm trying to imagine them handle the Kawhi Leonard free agency in 2019.
@Marek7_ Korean esports especially T1 doesn't compare to NBA. Every pro gamer says goal is to get on T1 and stay there
Zeus is not only selfish but dumb like thorin's take here. For Zeus to do better than last year, he needs to win worlds 3x straight, then become Faker. He won't do shit
Anything he does this year and for the rest of his career will be a failure. He won't the lottery and threw the ticket away.
@Marek7_ and look what happened to Kawhi since 2019.... Also, it don't compare to Zofgk dominance. Zeus might be playing in NA in a few years with HLE completely out of the league scene.
@@leaguefixesyourmatches8259 ah yes. Zeus must be selfish and greedy because he made the best choice for his career 😂. HLE is a much better team than T1 rn, and he got a longer contract and 400k higher salary.
I need, and i mean NEED, Horus Heresy T1 memes now xD
The Zeus Heresy:
-Faker is Big E, sitting on the Golden Throne forced to be sacrificed one million T1 fans daily to sustain his powers lest the legacy of T1 die.
-Joe Marsh is Sanguinius, dead on the ground after Zeus's betrayal.
-Oner, the reliable, loyal defensive wall is Rogal Dorn.
-Gumayusi, the aggressive bot lane carry is Leman Russ because he always had a bit of that dog in him.
-Keria is Jaghatai Khan because he just wants to roam and kill freely (alternatively could be Alpharius Omegon because we're not 100% sure if he's loyalist or not, lmao).
@@DoctorDucky250 This comment is fantastic! Zeus never wanted this...
@@DoctorDucky250I don't know about Joa Marsh being Sangi.. He isn't exactly beloved by everybody 😂 maybe he's Manis, getting his head chopped off because in his anger he forgot all strategy 😄
Also would that make the Agend Erebus? 🤔
@@THEkullerpuller I'm cool with Joe Marsh being the first casualty of the Heresy. Who would Zeus slay on his flagship to stoke the wrath of Faker? Bengi? Lol.
@ good question 😄 maybe Chovy? Also who is Malcador in this story? Kkoma maybe? 😂
Thorin is the goat of advertising
He is good at stirring controversy.
Hey Thorin, the crusade of top CEO/Fame guys playing video game while in important meeting is like Elon Musk playing Diablo 4 while Engineer is in a meeting with him talking about how Rocket was 1 second away from disaster, somehow everyone loves him. But the guy who ran FTX got sent to prison got memed on playing League of Legends in meetings. LOL
3 hour thorins thoughts what a legend!
All this speculation all the time. Every year it’s boasted that this and this team wins but all depends on team‘s chemistry no matter how good the individual players are. HLE and Gen.G are certainly hungry but whether all teams with their changes - albeit not a lot in 2025 - will click has to be seen first. It is particularly true for Zeus as he has never played for another team than T1. Every season there are many surprises. I am interested to see how DPlus Kia will do and their very young and talented homegrown toplaner Siwoo …
Holy crap 3 hours, nice
I love this video, because the story sounds like "T1 is trying to use hype and branding to trick a player into taking much less salary." Who cares about ZOFGK now we have DOFGK. Makes T1(I would say Joe Marsh) sound very greedy. Sounds like they bribe and spoil (like a private chef) their players while paying them much less money then deserves. Have you seen Joe Marsh at Worlds he treats the players like they're babies and not human beings. This just makes Joe Marsh sound like a douche and an idiot. Got what he deserves. Also makes T1 sound like they weren't interested and in no way wanted to pay what Zeus wanted. Sorry T1 fans but Joe Marsh didn't care about your precious ZOFGK. That was hoping for you. Happy for Zeus and HLE. Aren't we tired of seeing the same team when Worlds every year? Would be nice to see a new org like HLE win one.
Its not fun when a team just throws money at something and expects it to work, HLE has history of being very sus on their deals and salaries overcoming the stablished cap, if HLE makes it work it will be overall unhealthy for the scene.
Are you dense. Zofgk would have made T1 $$$$$. Having to cancel/refund zofgk set them back for years. Even if T1 was evil, they would have given whatever Zeus wanted cause it hugely benefits T1.
Also, Zeus was leaving anyway. When players want more $$$/terms they hold out and WAIT for weeks. Zeus signed within one day of free agency. He wanted out and who knows if HLE exists in 3 years. Remember even Samsung sold their lol team after winning worlds 2x? Now Samsung is T1's sponsor.
@@swe872even if HLE wins worlds, what if they pull a Samsung and sell their league team. HLE doesn't need a league team to make $$$$$
@@swe872even if HLE wins worlds, what if they pull a Samsung and sell their league team. HLE doesn't need a league team to make $$$$$
@swe872 That's sports and business. If you worked and could go from 250k a year to 750k a year you wouldn't switch jobs?
Big ups for the 40k references
The damage is unfortunately done. The fanbase was weaponized against Zeus and his agent through the leak. Justice would be a defamation suit against the T1 org. Well played to Zeus.
You cant say he doesn't check his notes
can we just all agree on the fact t1 should had offerd a big bag for all the obvious reasons.
for a team having so much money they being cheapskates to everyone except faker.
misplayed boys xd
That's not how proper negotiations are done though. As someone making the offer, T1 should start with an offer that it wants, expecting for Zeus to counter-offer and eventually having to pay higher. Offering very high from the start would have put them in a weak position.
@@justice2708 how did that turn out in the end though? Lol. If T1 really wanted Zeus to stay, these "negotiations" would have been done a long time ago. All of the other players had their contracts finalized, but Zeus. Why was he saved for last? He should have been the first. Guess they did not find him as important to the team. 🤣
@@Invictus-Solaris they were all done around the same time?1 week b4 the free agency as announced for the re-sign of other members? just that zeus and his agent wanted to go FA to test the market
@@Invictus-Solaris idk if you have ever done negotiations related to price before... but an important component of any negotiation is what other interested parties are willing to pay.
T1 (at least by Joe's AMA) doesn't know what other teams are offering. Without info on this, how would T1 be able to match other offers?
Especially of what Joe said is true, which is that Zeus's agent doesn't share any counteroffer of his own.
Really just seems that Zeus has his mind on HLE from the start, and taking T1 for a ride :).
@justice2708 if they wanted Zeus they would have given him what he wanted.
It was said they didn't present "counter offers," they would have made an original offer that T1 tried to negotiate.
You say T1 doesn't want to negotiate from a position of weakness like they ever had a strong position.
The moment they let Zeus hit FA they had 0 leverage.
Lovely content
I don't think T1 sues, it's already a massive resource waste after getting a loss from a marketing standpoint that you lost one of the reasons the team is profitable. Unless T1 have solid evidence of their call logs to prove they got fucked by the agency then there's no point pursuing this.
You can’t sue people who have done nothing illegal just because you lost in a negotiation
@@waffen98 I agree with the part that The Play didn't do anything illegal but saying that T1 lost in a negotiation is kinda wrong since they weren't allowed to have an actual negotiation LOL
@@thienhuynh7962clearly you didnt watch video. T1 was the ONLY team allowed to negotiate with Zeus for months
@@williamrupnick5861 all of it is hearsay from both party. Unless Zeus tells exactly what happened we will never know who actually is at fault and like I said there's no point, at the end of the day Zeus got a slightly worse deal from HLE than what they started but a good deal nonetheless. I mean the man is young, Ruler went back to GEN. What's stopping T1 from offering another one to Zeus in the upcoming years, Zeus is not the end of the world for T1. It's their midlaner Faker who should worry T1 if he wants to retire after his contract ends.
@@williamrupnick5861yeah in 22 they re-signed him after msi to the end of 2023
can you please do a football podcast as well? I reckon it would do well
Please no, he's already acting like Skip Bayless. If he does actual sports, he will be the second coming of Skip.
Holy shit. I used to watch Thorin back in 2015-2016 or so, what the FUCK happened to this guy?
esports
Thorin preaching common sense to deranged children.
Jfc 2 hour lets go
This.. was a long video indeed.
No Zeus is up on the Academy List
3 hours bro? Three hour long video. I know these are supposed to not be edited but jesus.
3 hour banger lol
i think T1 will be so mediocre without Zeus. Doran is a fine player but you CANNOT replace a star with a lightbulb
Isn't Zeus the worst performer when Faker got Injured?
T1 was mediocre with Zeus as well, they always just stepped up during worlds, Zeus is obviously better than Doran but It's really not as big of a difference as you make it out to be.
Bro said that like zeus was the carry 😂, dawg did you watch T1 games?
Bro, have you seen them without Faker? Poby make them all play like shit. They need Faker as a system. Mediocre my ass, you amnesiac or something?
They would be top 3/4 but most likely trophy less, something similar to 2020-2021
This is a verbal curbstomping lol
The only time I see this guy happy is when he does sponsor reads
The strangest thing is out of all the people you can lowball...why would you do it for Zeus? The only equal players to him are Bin and Kiin. You can't replace Faker obviously but you can definitely play the negotiation game with Oner, Gumayusi or Keria. These three players can be replaced; not easily, but it's possible. The bottleneck is clearly Zeus and the pool of top laners as good as him. If you couldn't see that and prioritize Zeus, it's just skill issue 🤷
How do u know that they lowball zeus tho? both sides have different stories?
as far as we know T1 has repeatedly said they got no response on counteroffers and could not get in contact with zeus. They wanted to pay any amount to be honest as long as Zeus signed but timing got to close to the line. It is telling when Zeus wanted a 2 year contract and his agent is complaining about 1+1 but then he signs a 1 year with HLE. if Zeus actually relied on map macro that is handled by keria and faker, then he will lose value.
@@miguelweerasinghe24zeus contract with hle is 1+1 on player side. But the contrac t1 offer is 1+1 t1 side. Do you notice the difference
Keria is irreplaceable. Thats why they give him last pick.
@@miguelweerasinghe24 Zeus was leaving anyway. He was NOT staying
33:29 well they DID try to sign Zeus way earlier but as stated before, the agency stalled (which is obviously within their rights). This argument/analogy doesn't seem very thought through.
You mean the agency decided to test free agency after (rightly) determining that the T1 offer was a lowball?
you should stick to a dead game cs thou u r mediocre there as well haha
Throin is wrong though... U cant just simply give zeus a raise as t1.. its more deeper then that
If u do give him it..the other 3 would demand the same raise.. and it would close the Gap between fakers pay and the other 4..then u need to up fakers too...
Running a organization is not as simple as throin make it out to be...
Okay? If you dont have the dough then Tough Titties lmfao, its literally a free market bro its south korea not north korea
Thorin sounds so stupid about other T1 players not checking their market value. It's always about money, why go to another team when you have a good brand in your current one. Massive L, this is so hard to listen to because of the clear bias.
I feel like any t1 related video produced by thorin and iwd will not be as reliable as others considering that they are doing this out of spite from the org and the fanbase, like it hard to trust whether or not the are doing this in pursuit of truth or just of out spite.
lmfao, "good brand" my ass, he now can win it all this year while being paid more, less stress and make an even better resume and legacy, players want to WIN and get PAID while doing so
Who is benefiting from the branding the most? Zeus? Faker? No, it's not the players. It's the organization. T1 is making the money from the branding. Unless the players are getting an actual cut of the merch sales based on the branding that wouldn't be possible without them, the branding only means something to T1, their merchandise, execs, and fans. I don't think the players need to consider that when looking for a better contract.
Brand isn’t as important when esports is a failing industry. You should get your bag asap
when it comes to T1, getting an unbias take will be difficult. from my experience, there's no middle ground with T1, you either have fans that excuse T1 no matter what or the T1 detractors who aren't willing to give T1 the benefit of the doubt. but it's good to have both sides of the equation to come to a proper conclusion.
Thorin otw to strawman arguments be like
@@yjchong8587 he's playing devil's advocate to get views. Innocent Zeus who "tried so hard to stay on T1" then signs with HLE on first day of FA...."I will never. Leave T1"
OFGK were carried by Zeus and now it's time to see how they really are
i mean when faker was out in 2023, zeus also had shit times, guma has always been the most stable during t1's worst.
like zeus is not bad, but he also had bad times, everyone forgets TF top and ad kennen top which did poorly which were zeus's choice in picks. its why everyone joked its zeshy. we will see how zeus is on HLE.
@@miguelweerasinghe24bro he was sh*t when Faker got subbed. But Delight and Peanut is just as effective of a shotcaller if not more
We gonna see how good Zeus is when Faker isn't controlling him.
@@miguelweerasinghe24thorin doesn't remember zeshy.
Dom, Thorin, and Monte aka the 3 stooges need to retire. These church of Choke'vy plebs have gone off the rails.
Delicious tears
Is there a hidden point in your head that you're not telling anyone or are you just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole?
So 20 y.o. player who in conversation for goat in he’s role, the only one similar is Chinese, player that you could re-sing all year long in the end didn’t get contract he wants. I’ll understand everything, but if t1 was rly interested in Zeus, knowing that teams would throw bags in to him in offseason, they could re-sign him long time ago. That’s look like they don’t want to spend on him at all, they only mad is because they can’t sign kiin, but why they so sure kiin would leave better team for t1, huh?
It's because T1 thinks they are the best and pinnacle company for any esports player. That hubris is what caused them to misplay their cards with Zeus. If they really valued ZOFGK leading into worlds, they'd already strike contracts with all members beforehand not wait until Zeus is on FA. People need to stop infantilizing the players as though they are too stupid to make a decision. Most likely Zeus 2023 during FA made a decision to stay with T1, but got tired of the k-pop idolness outside of the game of League, so this Zeus 2024 FA he isn't going to make the same mistake.