Not even just a friend, a partner. Not in the romantic type, but a person he could actually fight side by side with and not have to worry his Semblance would get in the way.
It's really interesting in this episode how the Ace Ops lost in the manner of the characters from Aesop's fables that didn't learn from their stories. Clover, the fisherman, his fable was all about patience. But rather than waiting until Tyrian was safely locked up, he had to try to arrest Qrow right away. Qrow was willing to wait and go back with him to figure things out. Clover jumped the gun and forced a fight to start where he was disadvantaged, and died for it. Marrow, the dog with the bone, dropped his bone in a lake because he was jealous of his reflection's bone and wanted to take it too. When Marrow froze Weiss's summon, he released Weiss, who he had already frozen & captured, and paid the price. Harriet, the hare who lost to the tortoise, was all about overconfidence. She just had to chase after Ruby to prove she was faster. Harriet would have fared better against literally any other member of team RWBY, could have tied them up faster than they could react, but she didn't. She just couldn't resist a race/fight against another speedster, and even ended up knocking herself out in the end. The Elm & the Vine are about support and holding on to each other, but they didn't do any of that in their fight. Blake & Yang had better teamwork, Elm & Vine split themselves up too much and allowed them to be focused one-at-a-time by their opponents. The Vine needs the support of the Elm but she didn't/couldn't do shit to protect him up there while she was down on the ground, and so he fell.
wiseguy149 I love this idea, but I dint think many RWBY fans really looked into it like this. Although I do like the parallel between their stories and their characters I think they could’ve done the Clover thing a little different just to get that point across because without looking at their fables this man Clover was literally like, “Capture the mass murderer ooooorrrr Qrow? Hmmm I’m gonna go for Qrow, seems like the best plan here, yep no flaws.” but I’m not gonna be butt hurt about the decision, just don’t think it was a good decision to follow through with his fable now and in this fashion.
Clover's weapon is called Kingfisher, which also plays into who he is, and his mistakes. Kingfishers are diving birds, but they can't see what's underwater. So when they dive, they have to take it on blind faith that they're going to be okay.
@Snap Black To be fair, the only time he’s seen Tyrian fight is when the three of them absolutely manhandled him in the alley (besides his confrontations with civilians). He probably figured it would be best to take out Qrow first (since his semblance basically nullified his good luck) and then beat Tyrian afterward because he wasn’t difficult to beat last time, and now he has less aura.
I'm glad Aaron saw the Smash Bros parallel with Qrow and Tyrian vs Clover, because that's exactly the way I saw it. Clover had three stocks. Qrow's aura was hurt from the crash, Clover got out early and so was full aura or near to it, and for all Qrow or Clover knew, Tyrian had had enough time to recharge his aura, so Qrow stands no chance of winning if he doesn't team up with someone. He would have prefered to team up with Clover against Tyrian, but that wasn't happening, so he took what he could get to come out on top so he could go help RWBY (and probably get Robyn help without her being arrested). As for Clover, people tend to default to the argument of "he's blindly loyal to Ironwood," but I think it's more that he was more confident that he could easily subdue Tyrian in a 1v1 compared to Qrow. As stated, Qrow's aura was already in bad shape, so it would have seemed to Clover that the quickest way to win here would be to let Tyrian get a few licks in on Qrow, finishing his aura, then subdue Tyrian with Kingfisher (which he is shown to be able to do pretty handily without outside interference), then focus on Qrow now that he has no aura. A lot of people blew up about Clover's decision-making here, but it's not as if he was just going to let Tyrian get away. His weapon is perfectly suited for subduing opponents at a range; there was no way Tyrian could escape in this open environment and there was little chance that he would have been able to seriously injure Qrow before Clover could step in.
I also think this was an assessment of Semblances. Clover probably considered the synergy of Bad Luck and Good Luck Tyrian, and figured he's at his strongest alone---which he often is as we get from Ace Ops team ups were it not for Qrow. Then there's the fact that they all beat Tyrian already. But they were aware of how they needed to work together to do that. Robyn is ranged, Qrow is their melee fighter, and Clover can subdue/redirect. They perfectly took him down. Now they were divided and had a battle of wills, as in who's would survive the first brawl and last the second.
This explaination really helps! This scene infuriated me so much when I saw it and I could find any way to justify the descision making. I even thought up a detailed way to fix the scene and still have the same outcome. However, there's still a problem: Qrow didn't have to fight at all. He could've just flow away while Tyrian fought Clover. This is what happens when you don't explain the limitations of a power. Qrow's crow ability is not tied to arua... probably, so when can and can't he use it? I usually defend RWBY, but I try not to be bias.
Regarding the Tyrian-Qrow teamup, the reason Qrow went for it was because Clover was 100% focused on capturing Qrow. In the first part of the fight once Tyrian arrived, Qrow was focusing on Tyrian while Clover was only attacking Qrow. Even after Tyrian proposed the truce Qrow attempted to attack Tyrian and Clover interrupted it with his fishing hook. It was at that point he turned and looked at Tyrian and nodded. Basically clover was tunnel visioned on his most recent order, capturing Qrow. Strategically Qrow knew he couldn't win fighting both of them and would have preferred to take down Tyrian, but wasn't given that option. It comes down to the same inflexibility you all talked about in the RWBY vs the rest of the Ace Ops fight. Clover wasn't budging on his orders. Tyrian is a wanted criminal and an agent of Salem, but the most recent order was to capture Qrow and so he 100% prioritized that. He didn't think on his own and assess what the bigger threat was.
Both Qrow and Clover acted dumb in this fight. They should've either kept the fight a 1v1v1, or Qrow and Clover should've teamed up vs Tyrian and then settle their differences afterwards. Props to Tyrian for playing them both.
If you think about it, this is Weiss' first solo victory against a person. Vol. 2: Weiss vs. Chainsaw guy, Weiss loses Vol. 3: Weiss vs. Flint Coal, Weiss loses (Yang was fighting Neon) Vol. 5: Weiss vs. Vernal, Weiss loses (Cinder may have gotten the last hit, but Vernal broke her Aura) Vol. 7: Weiss vs. Marrow, Weiss wins!
I dont think people notice how Clover was going for ONLY QROW until he teamed up with Tyrian. In clovers mind Qrow was his mission. We see the ASOPS dont ask any questions and follow orders. Qrow seeing Tyrian was still up made his decision to go after him. But Clover literally got in his way every single time. Not helping at all trying to use the moments he was distracted to capture him. Qrow could either keep fighting 1v1v1 or turn it iinto a 2v1. But Clover obviously wasnt going to help him.
RE: Qrow pairing with Tyrion against Clover not being a "smart" or "good" choice...Tyrion was the only one offering to pair up. If Clover had even showed the slightest inclination to help Qrow attack Tyrion, I'd bet Qrow would have gladly chosen that partnership instead. However, Clover attacked Qrow while he was going after Tyrion. Ultimately, no one except Tyrion made smart choices out of that group (Robyn included), and they all have to pay the rather hefty consequences.
It's not just they didn't have heart, they were arguing with one another on how it should be done too. Harriet basically saying she'll kill them if necessary. Marrow arguing with her about it, saying that it is too excessive. Even Vine argued with Elm about it.
Another angle you could take for the team up is that Qrow and Tyrian took the crash head on while Clover escaped. Clover would be close to 100% where as Qrow and Tyrian's aura would have been depleted from the crash. Assuming the three are completely even in terms of skill, the fight can only go one of three ways. If it remained a free for all, Clover would have come out on top due to having more aura and endurance and if Qrow and Clover teamed up, Clover could have easily defeated Qrow after he was exhausted from fighting Tyrian. Or the two weakened fighters could team up to take on the stronger threat and then hopefully duke it out. Qrow's biggest mistake was hoping Tyrian wouldn't escape Clover's binding.
I really like Blind Wave's break downs about the pairing in all the fights. Ace Ops definitely had some questionable things, but I agree that there are many factors that could affect how they played out certain things. Marrow easily could've stopped the whole thing, so they made him hesitant, Harriet could've handled anyone else, but she was hard headed and stubborn, Elm was too vengeful and hotheaded, and Vine... well, could've been more aggressive? I dunno. RWBY definitely knows how to take care of each other to say the least. I think back to how Clover declared Ace ops to be hand picked to focus on assets and leave zero liabilities. But RWBY is aware of each other other's weaknesses and seem benefit from that I guess? Ruby egged Harriet on knowing she could handle her, also blocked Marrow's attack from Weiss because she knows Weiss often needs time to strategize her attacks and is therefore exposed. Yang and Blake gathered their bearings and worked together, which is when they're at their best, and took out Vine, who was affecting their synergy at first. Of course there is a lot of flaws with this fight, but it's still an amazing one and can be explained in a way. Here's to more good ones at least!
@SSS The reason the Ace Ops lost wasn't because they weren't powerful. They were hella powerful. They lost so easily because they simply just did not have the teamwork. Notice how Blake and Yang were really struggling with Elm and Vine when nobody was working together and the Ops were beating them out of pure strength. But then Yang and Blake began their synergy and working together, something Elm and Vine can't do. Once they used teamwork to their advantage, they team targeted the biggest threat aka Mr. Stretchy Arms. After they took out the biggest threat, they easily handled the smaller threat, being Elm. Not only that, but I'm sure including teamwork, a big factor in the AceOps loss was Vine getting defeated. It lowered their morale and boosted team RWBY's, and I'm somebody who can tell you this: morale is a big part of fighting, especially as a team.
Back in episode 4 of this volume Marrow said that the Ace Ops weren't friends just teammates and that could be one of the key things that gave RWBY the win in the end. They have been so close they knew not only how to work alone but also how they best work together. RWBY and JNR have been friends for years now and know how to cover each other's weaknesses while the Aces just rely on each individually being good and don't really work together as much.
It is worth noting that the Ace Ops could've captured RWBY immediately had Marrow used his stopping ability right at the beginning, but I guess he just wasn't too much into the idea of fighting the people he bonded with all this time
If he wasn’t into the idea, then why not use the “stop” ability right away so there wouldn’t be any fighting? Oh right, because he read the script and it said everyone had to be dumb that day
I love Ruby's Line in this after Harriett said "We are the best Hunters in Atlas." And Ruby goes, "You Were." It's like Ruby is saying, You may be cool, but I'm the main protagonist, so you will lose. I knew Clover died and I was dreading this episode. I thought they could have been a good team, a friend that Qrow wouldn't have to worry about during a fight. It's unfair to give him a true friend then take them away.
To be fair on robyns actions she just got told 1 Iron wood somebody she thought she could trust and help just is seemingly betraying her 2 robyn the entire volume is about how she cares about it and wants to help mantle so when it turns out mantle is going to be left to die she obviously gets pissed as fuck i mean up to this point she been fed up with what mantle has had to suffer lack of protective wall grimm attacks the warehouse shit the heat shutting off ect so this thing with it be left to die realy sent her over the edge anger wise
I think Qrow was targeting Clover so heavily because Clover targeted him so heavily. He turned on Tyrian on two occassions, ignoring Tyrian's offer for an alliance UNTIL Clover kept going after him. Clover showed he wasn't willing to team up and only Tyrian really gave that offer. Plus, Qrow had a lot of personal feelings clouding his judgement in that battle.
Sorry, but from a writing stand point, I don't buy this justification. The problem with the writing here is WHY Qrow and Clover were targeting each other so hard and WHY clover wasn't willing to team up temporarily. It really makes no sense. Qrow's personal feelings clouding his judgement? What feelings would cause him to team up with Tyrian against Clover? His deep hatred for Tyrian for poisoning him and attacking his niece? Or his good personal relationship with Clover up to this point? The motivation for this fight was a dim spot in an otherwise really good volume.
HiIeric117 clover isn’t the type of soldier who follows his orders to the point. If he gets a new order to capture qrow, then he needs to capture qrow ASAP. Therefore it makes sense to me why he would choose to go after qrow,
@@KasaiKouhai Sure, I can see that maybe starting the fight. But it makes no sense after the crash. He has orders to capture both Qrow and Tyrian and you're telling me that he chooses to focus on Qrow? Whaaat? It's nonsensical.
There are countless comments that explain this better than me so I'll just say what people didn't say. Qrow completed his illusion of 'Scarecrow' and lost his mind. Robyn attacked, because last time she let Atlas militery have it's way, her city's wall didn't get repaired. Also she was thinking, if she gets to Atlas they will arrest her along with Qrow and her city will be left for dead. Adrenaline rush, subsequent fear of loss. People just look at the surface of this entire senario and say its trash, and dont try to go deep and think what would the characters are thinking at the moment.
Qrow fought Clover because of math. Clover would not focus on Tyrian despite Qrow actively trying to avoid Clover to focus on the bigger threat. Mathematically, Qrow has a better chance of surviving if he's the 2 in the 2v1.
@@a3-radio Mathematically Clover killed himself because he refused to let Qrow handle Tyrian. He could've just as easily NOT attacked when Qrow was facing Tyrian and instead focused on the actual murderer first. But no, he decided bringing Qrow into custody was more important than the serial killer they had just arrested.
While I'm sure a bunch of people have already commented about this, I'm just going to throw this out there. Qrow teamed up with Tyrian only after realizing that Clover wasn't going to give him the choice. At every opportunity Qrow tried to focus Tyrian, but Clover attacked him at every turn. This is also why Qrow joined the fight on the plane. Clover had to intention of ever thinking for himself and standing down. The running theme of this episode was how NONE of Ironwood's top men ever thought for themselves. I think Winter put it best when she said "Ironwood is making the tough decisions so we don't have to" and repeatedly saying that her personal feelings don't matter. This definitely was not a matter of causing a lot of in fighting for the sake of drama or whatever. This was actually foreshadowed and executed pretty well for the most part. They could have made the Qrow-Clover-Tyrian fight a little longer to more clearly paint the picture of what was going on to cause less confusion. There were A LOT of people angry and confused at this episode and they misplaced blame for who was at fault. I'm really glad that you all handled this very maturely.
@@rainingcomplete3018 actually, they don't. before he dies he admits he was wrong, but that he felt it was his job to take the fall. Also, he's been established as VERY cocky and reckless thanks to his semblance.
Qrow kept trying to attack just Tyrian but everytime he tried Clover would stop and attack him. Tyrian was the only one giving Qrow an option. If Clover had just talked with Qrow the same way Tyrian did and made a deal to take out Tyrian than it would've been fine. So this was Clover's fault for being focused on the current mission of arresting Qrow.
That is a bit of a stretch, blaming clover for qrow siding with a literally mass murder it's the equivalent of you stealing something from someone and blaming them for having nice things The situation wasn't well handle by any party, but qrow has the biggest portion of the blame
@@a3-radio You gave a bad example compared to that situation in show. Qrow was trying to attack just Tyrian at first, and it would have been all fine if Clover also went after Tyrian first. Instead Clover just kept trying to attack Qrow. Qrow can't fight both of them at once and Tyrian suggested a truce of taking Clover down first so that they can have their own fight. Considering that it was Tyrian who kept trying to break up Qrow and Clover's fight, Qrow didn't really have any better options. Clover would have just continued to attack Qrow and eventually they would both be too weak to fight Tyrian. Of course, the team up with Tyrian didn't work out but there was no better option since Clover just forced Qrow's hand.
@@noox13 I understand your point I do, but "my only option is to team up with a murderer" from a person as theoretically experience as qrow is not just a bad decision it's as good as killing the dude himself, this isn't 1st season Ruby with no experience, this is a experience warrior that knows the horrible consequences of his decisions, it's unfortunate because a good 1v1v1 would have been an excellent way to send clover off instead of having both characters make poor decisions. And about my example I guess you are right, it would be more similar to being the get away driver in a bank robbery
Relatively speaking, the Free-for-all was a battle between order (Clover) and chaos (Tyrian), while Qrow was the voice of reason. He knew 2v1 could have resulted in detaining Tyrian, who was in only for fun, while Clover is confident to battle both OR best-case-scenario, 1 K.O., resume the 1v1; something Tyrian could accomplish, as pointed out (15:55).
I'd love to see a "RWBY Soundtrack" Reaction and Discussion from these guys. What Jeff and Casey-Lee Williams (and all the other talented unmentioned people) do with the soundtrack is my favorite use of music in any show or movie. The Williams' basically release a whole new album, which has songs that provide insight and background to the characters, giving them new dimensions and development.
The worst part is even if Tyrian was the one to stab Clover, Qrow will still take the blame for his death because there's always that little bit in the back of his mind that says it's his fault because of his quirk.
marrow can make as many prople as he wants to stay but he cant hold to many people for long. His power works off line of sight if he sees you you’re staying.
Marrow's semblance seems to be a "cone of effect", so he can only do one *direction* at a time.....he did (temporarily) freeze multiple targets coming at him in the wake of Tyrian's massacre at the Election Night party....but they were all approaching from the same vector.
RWBY Vs Ace Ops: How to use the Power of Friendship in an anime fight the right way. Where actual knowledge of your friends’ fighting styles, thought patterns, strengths, and weaknesses led to the win and not a Zenkai boost. As well as a knowledge of what can set your opponent off.
Personally, I really liked the Ace Ops fight. They were divided among themselves and even arguing with one another on how to handle team RWBY. We only ever seen them fight a Poltergeist Grim and that was with Clover. We've seen RNGR/JNRR fight one before in Volume 4 but that's not really comparable, considering it wasn't team RWBY plus how much time passed.The Ace Ops were paired cause of their semblances work well together. That doesn't account for personality and or fighting styles. I honestly feel like it's kinda dumb to pair people for that reason, if you're a hunter/huntress then you need to learn how to adapt to any future partners. Ruby had to adapt back when she was with RNGR/JNRR, and I think she did well: Like shooting Nora with a electric dust fused bullet back in vol 4. Blake had to adapt Sun's back then too. Also, like Tai said to Yang, you can't just solely rely on your semblance. The Ace Ops don't even have their leader or his semblance. We don't really know how many times Clover's good luck has activated. I think the mistake some people make is that Clover's semblance only affects him, but it's like Qrow's, it affects everyone. You can say Clover's Semblance affected Tyrian when Clover's weapon cut the seat restraint. BUT you can also that was Qrow's bad luck. It's a toss up, they don't cancel out each other out. We saw that back with the Geist grim too in the tunnels. I feel like when they're together their semblance is like the saying "A blessing in disguise" or "Bad luck disguised as good luck." Also, all the Ace Ops fell cause of their fables. The lucky fisherman not being patient. Clover not waiting to arrest Qrow. (I also put some of the blame on Robyn tho) The rabbit being too competitive. Ruby is like the Tortoise of the story. Her fight was the last finished, and she probably knew she there was a chance she wouldn't win against Harriet. But, taking it slow and steady, Harriet is a semblance that is no longer in play for the Ace Ops. Marrow could've used her help against Weiss when he froze her, but the her competitive nature got the best of her. The dog with a bone jumping into the water without thinking because he was jealous of his reflection and wanted it's bone. Marrow froze the Gigas summon, but doing so released Weiss. The Elm and Vine support each other, but Elm and Vine were split among themselves. Blake and Yang took them out together one by one, focusing on Vine first. Which, if you look at the faces of all the Ace Ops when that happened, they really started questioning themselves and it also lowered their morale. Then Yang used her semblance to break the ground that allowed Elm to root herself. With no more support, Blake and Yang were able to defeat her as well.
@@PrimalInfinity yeah saw that and it was cool but ORNJ should be smart enough to attack at the same time. But yeah neo got nerfed a bit. From what I heard that was an animation error with distance.
The weak answer to the contrivance of Qrow and Tyrion teaming up is it was an emotionally charged decision. Qrow went into this volume sceptical of Ironwood and Atlas, allowed himself to trust both as time went on (despite what is clearly years of mistrust, as well as his innate fear of opening up to anyone in general), and, like with his sister two volumes back, his hope and trust were let down, here; when Clover took the order. Add to that a layer of arrogance and pride that Qrow DOES have from time to time (he does see himself as an exceptional circumstance in this grand plot, not a pawn for someone else), and it wouldn't take much convincing in that situation, that Qrow's best bet is to remove the pawn threat in Clover, then beat Tyrion, because in his eyes, deep down, he's the only one there who can. Obviously, more than once, Qrow is as much a victim of his own folly as he is his own semblance. Contextually, the team up makes little sense other than to create some chaos. It's one of the primary reasons why, despite looking fantastic, practically on par with Monty's stuff, it's a little too contrived a scenario. I'm a lot more interested, if anything, in seeing the full extent of the fallout with Qrow.
Also, Qrow's and clover's semblances are likely at work here. Clover' semblance benefits him, specifically and he wants to do his job. Qrow's makes things worse for everyone. put them together and Clover gets his excuse for an arrest. Plus, clover is shown to be VERY cocky with his own semblance to the point of carelessness.
There is a theory as to why the Ace-Ops were defeated: They didn't learn the moral of the fables they are based on. I hope you guys can check out the OST's. It's crazy how much foreshadowing and context the lyrics provide for the series.
I have a different take on why the Ace-Ops was defeated: 1 - Some of the Ace-Ops weren't serious, if all of them were serious from the beginning then team RWBY wouldn't stand a chance. 2 - They got overconfident and cocky thinking that they would win easily, they forgot that team RWBY was improving little by little. 3 - Clover wasn't there, most of the success of the Ace-Ops was probably due to the "Good Luck Semblance" which made it easier for them, without the "Good Luck Semblance" they got overconfident and lost.
When I first watched this episode I was also very confused by the decision to essentially ignore Tyrian and fight each other. Though the more I thought about it, the more it started to make sense. This show has always used the characters' inspirations as a part of their personality and story line. For instance, Ironwood, being the Tin Man, has his downfall when he forgets his heart. Lionhart's downfall is when his cowardice takes over. It then makes sense that Qrow's downfall, being the scarecrow, would be when he doesn't use his brain. Logically, it makes sense to make sure you take down the insane serial killer first, but that's the point of him ignoring that to fight Clover. In this moment he's forgetting to use his brain and just acting on instinct and frustration which leads to him losing what could have been an incredible friendship with the one person he can be around without his semblance messing up their life.
On top of that, he TRIES to attack Tyrian. Even after Tyrian suggests they team up. But every time he attacks Tyrian, Clover hits him in the back. He doesn't have a choice at that point.
The trouble with a "Good luck" semblance is....everyone's luck runs out eventually.....and that was sheer hubris on Clover's part, not teaming back up with Qrow again.
This episode show that with Team RWBY get a Mary Sue fight... 1 Ruby power is her changing to flower petals an doing the same with other when touching them. So i ask how she breakthrough a safe room door? And to add this on how the Hell did Ruby not get O.K in that fight, all she did is run an take hits from a real Speedster that was not pulling her punches. 2 the delayed bomb charge on the rock up to Blake then Blake shadow a clone with bomb in side it? What this broken ass shit...Is RWBY try to cut an paste Naruto in this show now? 3 Yang punch the ground and the Ace go up? How? She should have flew into the wall and kinetic energy doesn't work like that, a punching down does not push something up It was like watching the Yang VS Tifa death match that has all good looks but it was a rigged fight.
This new "social distancing" setup made me realize that you guys have the lights matching with your Team REAC shirts... but it's missing the correct order so I guess you could just swap them out while editing right?
technically that altercation started because of Clover. he was his own undoing. He had a job to get the world's most dangerous serial killer in a cell, and instead he jumped the gun and decided he wanted to arrest Qrow on the spot. Qrow even agreed to go peacefully and talk things out, but nope. Couldn't wait.
I’m inclined to agree... she actively escalated a situation that Qrow was trying to de-escalate. If she had allowed Qrow to talk to Clover they may have been able to make it Atlas which would have been the best case scenario and was also what Qrow wanted to do.
@@14s0cc3r14 except Qrow's the one who continues to ask for them to stop while clover says it has to be this way. and Clover does actually say he IS going to arrest qrow, even saying to Robyn it's going to happen, don't make me arrest you too before she fires.
The thing is, she just saw ironwood declare martial law and turn on a large number of his allies with no explanation, the exact thing she's been afraid of all this time, after ruby sends a message outlining his plan to leave mantle and it's people to die. We've spent the arc seeing her asking for information and trying to fix the walls while the streets crawling with Grimm, and shut out. It's she's very likely to believe it, and it's going to hit her hard. plus Tyrian, the man who massacred her men, has been riling her up, and even the characters mention their tired and on edge after the night's events. also, Qrow's and clover's semblances are likely at work here. Clover' semblance benefits him, specifically and he wants to do his job. Qrow's makes things worse for everyone. put them together and Clover gets his excuse for an arrest. I am not saying she was completely right, but she's not the only one at fault here.
Clover's death really upset a lot of more hardcore fans when this episode first came out, so I'm glad to see you guys take a much more positive approach to it, even if you weren't fully on board with it. Clover kind of forced Qrow to team up with Tyrian because Clover was deadset on bringing them both in and was overconfident enough to try.
I have a different take on why the Ace-Ops was defeated: 1 - Some of the Ace-Ops weren't serious, if all of them were serious from the beginning then team RWBY wouldn't stand a chance. 2 - They got overconfident and cocky thinking that they would win easily, they forgot that team RWBY was improving little by little. 3 - Clover wasn't there, most of the success of the Ace-Ops was probably due to the "Good Luck Semblance" which made it easier for them, without the "Good Luck Semblance" they got overconfident and lost.
10:24 well said my friend well said Combine that with Tyrian laughing and you see what happens in my mind when I have an alliance with another player against one annoying or unfair player in a free for all xD
Well, some of the aces weren't going to hurt/kill. Same can't be said for rwbyq. And tbf: Qrow didn't pair with tyrian until clover kept attacking him instead of tyrian
After that discussion, I'm convinced Qrow couldnt beat clover. For one he'd be holding back and two his own semblance can work against him double fold as it did in this fight because he is subject to his own bad luck and is working against clover''s good luck that techincally makes qrow have more bad luck. His only option was to team up with tyrian
Marrow can only stop one direction, not person. He stopped the entire crowd in the episode where the bad guys blamed Penny for the attacks so the good guys could get away.
Clover focussed on Qrow because at this point Tyrian had lost his Aura recently and could only have recovered a little in the meantime, not to mention just been in a crash. Tyrian was at this point far less of a threat than he would usually be whereas Qrow was much closer to full power (he did quite well in the crash relative to Tyrian). If he teamed up with Qrow to put down Tyrian first then he would be left with Qrow nearly at full capacity as an opponent, however if he can weaken Qrow while it is still a free for all then he stands a much better chance against two weakened opponents. Unfortunately for Clover Tyrian is a much better at playing this type of game than him, Tyrian saw right through it and twisted the battle back against Clover. Qrow obviously was given very little choice in who to fight under the circumstances that were thrust upon him. Qrow's biggest error was getting emotional at Clover's behaviour enough that he was distracted from Tyrian once Clover became vulnerable.
The RWBY/Ace Ops fight- I feel like you guys hit most of the nails on this one, but the one other thing I'd point out is that the Ops were missing their lucky charm leader. As established in the fight against the geist, its Clover who organises them and decides who focuses on what. Without him, leadership defaulted to Harriet, who was hot-headed, competetive and hyper focussed on her speed rivalry that she refused to focus on the other fighters. If Vine or Elm could have kept Ruby occupied, Harriet could probably take down Weiss, Blake and Yang with relative ease. So even without taking his semblence into account, they were hamstung by Clover's absence. As for Qrow/Clover- I do think they could have made the characters decision making a bit more clear, but when thought about they do make sense. And not for the whole 'Clover is a nationalist focussing on his last orders' thing. When Tyrian shows up during their 1v1 its very telling that Qrow immediately abandons fighting Clover in order to attack Tyrian, only for Clover to interfere. He does this several times. Hell, even when Tyrian first proposes his alliance, Qrow disregards it and once again goes straight for Tyrian only to be nearly disarmed by Clover's fishing pole. So, why is Clover focussing on Qrow? Well, I interpreted it as him being confident that he could beat Tyrian in a 1v1 (where his semblence would give a huge advantage) but not so sure about Qrow (whose semblence levels the playing field). So he decides to try and take Qrow down first (thinking that no-way would he and Tyrain ever ally together meaning Qrow would be trying to fight against 2 skilled opponents at once) so that he can then have an easier, almost sure to win fight after once Qrow is subdued. Qrow on the other hand, is focussing on the one he's got the bigger grudge against regardless of the fact that Clover is probably the bigger threat to him, at least until he realises that Clover will not allow him to focus on Tyrian. And while I agree they should have focussed on Tyrian, its not because he's the 'bigger threat'. Because, frankly, he's not. As skilled as Tyrian is, he's at best on par with Qrow. They were pretty even back in vol 4 until Ruby got involved and Qrow had to split his attention to protect her from both Tyrian and his own semblence. And as we see in this fight, Clover is more than capable of not only holding his own against both Tyrian and Qrow at the same time but in fact completely subduing one and disarming the other. Tyrian wouldn't have had a chance in a 1v1 against Clover and against Qrow it'd be a close-run thing and if theres no one else around to get in the way, that would probably go Qrow's way too.
There's also the matter of aura levels in the Qrow/Clover/Tyrian fight. While we don't have an exact idea of where they stood, Clover was likely nearly full, Qrow was just in a plane crash, and Tyrian was in a plane crash while his aura was recovering. As such, odds were that Qrow was likely to last longer than Tyrian, making him more of a threat to Clover.
How that conversation should have gone if they were reasonable: “Clover, I’ll let you take me in without a fight so all three of us can have a conversation with James, but first we have to make sure Tyrian is in a prison cell.” “Okay.”
The Ace Ops are each based on one of Aesops tales and each one's biggest flaw is the moral of their own story. Clover - Impatience Harriet - Overconfidence Elm and Vine - Teamwork Marrow - Indecision
I don't really like the argument that Team RWBY won because they have better teamwork. I mean, of course they work well but it was never said the Ace Ops didn't, I guess most people assume that because of Marrow's comment about Blake and Yang never being apart in the earlier episodes, but that was probably something more to their ship than teamwork... the Ace Ops are professionals who have work together far longer than RWBY, they only don't see themselves as "friends" (or that's what Harriet says, but they sure act like friends quite a lot). I'm fine with team RWBY winning but I think it has more to do with AceOps being overconfident and emotionally conflicted (Harriet and Elm were angry, Marrow didn't want to fight). I still think that at least one of team RWBY should've lost juuuuust to keep the power level in check tho...
I am fine (grudgingly) with RWBY beating the AceOps if the plot called for it. I just wish they had to earn that win. It was way too easy. I don't accept that they got that good that quick. Basically the best huntsman in the world now? Seems like the AceOps were nerfed just to give RWBY a big win.
When people say "RWBY had better teamwork" I roll my eyes because that fight was two 1v1s and one 2v2, the latter being because Blake and Yang apparently aren't allowed to be apart from each other in any scene EVER. I guess a 2 out of 4 team up somehow equals good teamwork for the team overall.
I agree with everything you said but I can invent a reasonable excuse on why the Ace-Ops lost the fight, here's my excuse: 1 - Some of the Ace-Ops weren't serious, if all of them were serious from the beginning then team RWBY wouldn't stand a chance. 2 - They got overconfident and cocky thinking that they would win easily, they forgot that team RWBY was improving little by little. 3 - Clover wasn't there, most of the success of the Ace-Ops was probably due to the "Good Luck Semblance" which made it easier for them, without the "Good Luck Semblance" they got overconfident and lost.
One of the big reasons, which I really like, for the AceOps vs RWBY fight is that the AceOps are coworkers. They were picked to be efficient and they are working together. Team RWBY are friends and that gives them a huge advantage over the AceOps. It would've been cool to maybe see a closer, more intense fight but overall RWBY has reasons why they should win,they are also very skilled. Then on top of that everything everyone else has been saying about the weakness/strengths, the fable morals etc.
I appreciate the logic they discuss behind why team RWBY would be able to win against the Ace Ops rather than all the people thinking the ace ops should have just won simply because they're Atlas special operative Huntsmen. It's similar to Emerald and Mercury embodying CFVY but Yang being able to go toe to toe with Mercury. Just because you're a year two student or a special forces unit doesnt guarantee a victory. Especially if the way you fight is very lacking in speed and mobility and all around lacking in anything aside from brute force like CFVY.
If I'm being honest, a smash brothers alliance perfectly describes Qrow's action in a light we can understand. I also realized that Weiss didn't even get hit, she wasn't moved from her position against her will, the Knight fighting the whole time. It goes to show that Marrow was reluctant the whole time.
I was surprised but Tyrion can be an incredibly supportive fighter. Especially the 15:52 moment. He’s great at matching his teammate’s flow and fighting in tandem. While he’s bat shit insane, he’s still a amazing teammate if he truly has your back.
That whole Qrow-Clover-Tyrian fight was such a writers' fart... Anyone else, but psycho serial killer, would make more sense - even ignoring bigger picture etc.
I love how both Qrow and Clover forgot that Tyrian is a Murderous Murdering Murderer who works for The Evil Incarnate and decided that he was less of a threat than the other guy...
Honestly, something that might get over looked. WE know how much qrow is stupidly insecure and hates his semblance. He feels cursed and pretty much is. So in a 3 for all fight, where one person is roughly evenly matched between qrow and tyrian, In a pure 1v1 qrow probably thinks its a death sentence to have to fight clover. he has all the advantages that qrow has had to not have. If qrows goal is to fight clover but not kill him, and clovers goal is to beat qrow, then not only is CLOVERS semblance working against Qrow, but qrows own semblance is both bringing misfortune Against his goal of Beating clover and also not killing him. It was a death sentence if qrow didnt work with tyrion due to the nature of theiur relationship as friends, and opponents, and also that there was a third member in the fight.
I know this comment is a little different from the rest but I think you'd like 10 little roosters. It's another show made by Roosterteeth and it's fine to just jump right into without actually knowing the people involved. To summarise it's a murder mystery.
I 100% with Eric: Qrow and Clover should have teamed up against Tyrian, defeat him and THEN fight between them again. The stakes changed the moment Tyrian get loose. Tyrian was ALSO a "WANTED" person and objectively at a higher level than Qrow. So Clover should have proposed a deal to Qrow but not Tyrian to Qrow. But... The writers had to make the characters stupid for the sake of the plot. That episode got me extremely frustrated, I'm glad to see Eric thinks the same way about the fight with Clover-Tyrian-Qrow.
LOL. Sorry, but how is Tyrian objectively better than Qrow? They were on pretty even footing back in vol 4 and Tyrian only got the upper hand because Qrow had to focus on protecting Ruby from both himself and from Tyrian. With no outside interference, that fight could go either way. And with Qrow's semblence, it pushes the odds more in his favour. And you're not looking at Clover's side of this. He's probably very confident at being able to take down Tyrian 1v1 (his 'good luck' makes that an almost certainty) but Qrow (whose semblence counters Clover's) is more of a gamble. If he assumed that there was no way Qrow would team with Tyrian, then it makes perfect sense to focus on him first.
@@adamhughes4387 I did not say Tyrian was better than Qrow but more dangerous. Tyrian is a killer psychopath, not Qrow. If someone has to be arrested first, it is objectively Tyrian. As for their respective skills/strenght, I would say the two are evenly matched (yes Qrow has his bad luck but Tyrian has his "erasing" aura semblance which he didn't even use against Qrow back in V4) but that is not the point like I said. As for Clover, the argument that working with Qrow against Tyrian might be a bad combination is fragile ; the two precisely fought together against Tyrian in the previous episode and they held their ground pretty well. It is clear Robyn helped but it is not just like Clover and Qrow's semblances cancelled each other out and Robyn's semblance overcame Tyrian's. It makes no sense, it is not just about semblances.
@@alexandreolle2340 When you said Tyrain was 'objectively at a higher level than Qrow' I assumed you meant fighting ability. If not then my mistake. You're right that Tyrian, due to pyscotic nature and serial killer tendencies, is much more dangerous than Qrow to not only Clover but a whole load of other people too. I never said that Clover and Qrow is a bad combination. I said that Clover might be more confident at being able to take Tyrian 1v1 than he would be against Qrow. Clover has luck on his side fighting against Tyrian and his weapon is perfectly suited to disarmed and disabling opponents at range, which is a perfect counter to Tyrian's erractic close quarters combat. We've seen Clover twice be able to tie Tyrian up without any real issue. But his fighting style is less suited to fighting Qrow and while Clover would still benefit from his good luck charm, he'd also be hindered by Qrow's bad luck. As for the fight in the last episode, I didn't see a single thing that could 100% be attributed to either Qrow or Clover's semblence. And Robyn's semblence is of no use in a fight anyway. That fight was won because three skilled opponents worked together pretty effectively to take down a lone opponent. That fight was so short its unlikely either of the fortune semblences even had a chance to effect it.
@@adamhughes4387 I was refering to the "WANTED" aspect just before writing about the "level", so what I had in mind was the level of dangerosity but I should have made that more clear too. As for Clover, I agree he has two reasons (fighting style and semblance) to favour fighting against Tyrian rather than Qrow. Now about a combination of Clover and Qrow against Tyrian (regardless of the obvious priority to capture him), the thing is that both Clover and Qrow can control their semblances (as any other semblance). Even if it was made clear that it is extremely difficult to have total control on your own semblance (even for a trained huntsman) and that luck semblances are apparently harder to control, we can assume that Clover and Qrow are sufficiently skilled to control their semblances in such a way that Tyrian would be at a very significant disadvantage. And during their fight with Robyn, I think it happened. Like you said, Clover was able to tie Tyrian up pretty easily. Is it just because of Clover's skills ? Because of his skills combined with his semblance used on himself ? Because of his skills, his semblance used on himself and Qrow's used on Tyrian ? I think it is the last option but we can't really say. I don't think luck semblances need time to work, it was never said (or I missed it). We had several examples with Qrow with an unfortunate event happenning even if he didn't want it implying that his semblance is always at work and can translate into something tangible at any moment. And that is precisely what is tricky about luck semblances during fights ; it is likely Clover and Qrow were using their semblances but impossible to see when they manifested themselves in a concrete way on Tyrian. So back to the Qrow-Tyrian-Clover, I'm deeply convinced that the logical way would have been to have 1) Clover and Qrow teaming up against Tyrian and arrest him again then 2) get back to Atlas and discuss with Ironwood. But I think I know why the writers decided to go the way they did ; it is because of the tales Qrow and Clover are based on. I don't remember the names of the corresponding characters but at some point, Qrow is supposed to lose his mind and Clover his patience. Which indeed happened: Qrow lost his mind when he learnt Ironwood called for his arrest, when he saw Clover going at him straight for it without hesitation, when Tyrian got loose and provoked him. And Clover did not have the patience to wait to land in Atlas to arrest Qrow or even discuss with Ironwood. But all of this seemed rushed to me, very sudden and thus not right. Tyrian is such a threat, Qrow should have never consider teaming up with him, I mean Qrow is smart goddamnit. Same for Clover ; painted as a cool-wise-rational guy all the way and suddenly he wants to arrest Qrow without second thought. I get the loyalty thing and I know it makes sense overall but I can't help to feel it was rushed.
If Qrow actually gets blamed for Lucky Charms death, Atlas has the most incompetent police force in the world. The footprints alone are clear, not to mention the fingerprints. Sure, they will arrest him, but if this goes to trial, its BS.
At 4.30 he says what the entire fandom thought of this scene and fight. "What the fuck is this?" Its stupidly handled, excuted and just makes no sense. What really makes it worse is Robyn shoots an arrow at someone with an aura so it wouldn't hit him anyway and he has a good luck semblance. The whole scene is garbage
I really hate this episode or more specifically one particular event in this episode, Robyn was an idiot for firing the first shot and Qrow and Clover were idiots for continuing to fight each other instead of taking care of Tyrian together.
Watch next week's Reaction to RWBY 7x13 Finale Early HERE: www.patreon.com/posts/37811330
Hi! Blind Wave whens the next twitch stream?
Qrow finally gets a friend
The world: NOPE
The World says: MUDA
Actually it’s his friend’s fault
Mr. Stuff Doer so?? The point is that he lost a friend not why....
Not even just a friend, a partner. Not in the romantic type, but a person he could actually fight side by side with and not have to worry his Semblance would get in the way.
I mean... I guess he's pretty unlucky.
It's really interesting in this episode how the Ace Ops lost in the manner of the characters from Aesop's fables that didn't learn from their stories.
Clover, the fisherman, his fable was all about patience. But rather than waiting until Tyrian was safely locked up, he had to try to arrest Qrow right away. Qrow was willing to wait and go back with him to figure things out. Clover jumped the gun and forced a fight to start where he was disadvantaged, and died for it.
Marrow, the dog with the bone, dropped his bone in a lake because he was jealous of his reflection's bone and wanted to take it too. When Marrow froze Weiss's summon, he released Weiss, who he had already frozen & captured, and paid the price.
Harriet, the hare who lost to the tortoise, was all about overconfidence. She just had to chase after Ruby to prove she was faster. Harriet would have fared better against literally any other member of team RWBY, could have tied them up faster than they could react, but she didn't. She just couldn't resist a race/fight against another speedster, and even ended up knocking herself out in the end.
The Elm & the Vine are about support and holding on to each other, but they didn't do any of that in their fight. Blake & Yang had better teamwork, Elm & Vine split themselves up too much and allowed them to be focused one-at-a-time by their opponents. The Vine needs the support of the Elm but she didn't/couldn't do shit to protect him up there while she was down on the ground, and so he fell.
wiseguy149 I love this idea, but I dint think many RWBY fans really looked into it like this. Although I do like the parallel between their stories and their characters I think they could’ve done the Clover thing a little different just to get that point across because without looking at their fables this man Clover was literally like, “Capture the mass murderer ooooorrrr Qrow? Hmmm I’m gonna go for Qrow, seems like the best plan here, yep no flaws.” but I’m not gonna be butt hurt about the decision, just don’t think it was a good decision to follow through with his fable now and in this fashion.
Clover's weapon is called Kingfisher, which also plays into who he is, and his mistakes.
Kingfishers are diving birds, but they can't see what's underwater. So when they dive, they have to take it on blind faith that they're going to be okay.
@@ToaArcan That's also a really interesting thing I never knew about the Kingfishers. Certainly changes the perspective.
Never looked into their fables but that's fantastic.
@Snap Black To be fair, the only time he’s seen Tyrian fight is when the three of them absolutely manhandled him in the alley (besides his confrontations with civilians). He probably figured it would be best to take out Qrow first (since his semblance basically nullified his good luck) and then beat Tyrian afterward because he wasn’t difficult to beat last time, and now he has less aura.
Once Vine got knock out, andf the other 3 looking, and the music starts up, man I get such chills everytime, wow
💯
15:56 "Man, he could've stabbed him in the back!"
This comment didn't age well.
if it was Calvin could have been another detective Calvin moment.
I'm glad Aaron saw the Smash Bros parallel with Qrow and Tyrian vs Clover, because that's exactly the way I saw it. Clover had three stocks. Qrow's aura was hurt from the crash, Clover got out early and so was full aura or near to it, and for all Qrow or Clover knew, Tyrian had had enough time to recharge his aura, so Qrow stands no chance of winning if he doesn't team up with someone. He would have prefered to team up with Clover against Tyrian, but that wasn't happening, so he took what he could get to come out on top so he could go help RWBY (and probably get Robyn help without her being arrested). As for Clover, people tend to default to the argument of "he's blindly loyal to Ironwood," but I think it's more that he was more confident that he could easily subdue Tyrian in a 1v1 compared to Qrow. As stated, Qrow's aura was already in bad shape, so it would have seemed to Clover that the quickest way to win here would be to let Tyrian get a few licks in on Qrow, finishing his aura, then subdue Tyrian with Kingfisher (which he is shown to be able to do pretty handily without outside interference), then focus on Qrow now that he has no aura. A lot of people blew up about Clover's decision-making here, but it's not as if he was just going to let Tyrian get away. His weapon is perfectly suited for subduing opponents at a range; there was no way Tyrian could escape in this open environment and there was little chance that he would have been able to seriously injure Qrow before Clover could step in.
I also think this was an assessment of Semblances. Clover probably considered the synergy of Bad Luck and Good Luck Tyrian, and figured he's at his strongest alone---which he often is as we get from Ace Ops team ups were it not for Qrow. Then there's the fact that they all beat Tyrian already. But they were aware of how they needed to work together to do that. Robyn is ranged, Qrow is their melee fighter, and Clover can subdue/redirect. They perfectly took him down. Now they were divided and had a battle of wills, as in who's would survive the first brawl and last the second.
Ahhh, interesting. I see...
This explaination really helps! This scene infuriated me so much when I saw it and I could find any way to justify the descision making. I even thought up a detailed way to fix the scene and still have the same outcome.
However, there's still a problem: Qrow didn't have to fight at all. He could've just flow away while Tyrian fought Clover. This is what happens when you don't explain the limitations of a power. Qrow's crow ability is not tied to arua... probably, so when can and can't he use it? I usually defend RWBY, but I try not to be bias.
Tyrian: "You guys should fight!"
Robin: "You're right!"
Tyrian: "...I didn't actually think that would work."
Great fight spectacle. Absolutely dumb premise.
@@DocMicrowave I get it. Trust is fragile. It wouldn't take much to shatter any alliance robin had with James.
@@DocMicrowave What's the dumb bit? After all, Robyn was also going to go to jail.
@kereminde
She wasn't on the arrest order, remember? Clover even says that.
@@DeathKnight5608 Because trusting Ironwood has turned out so well for his other allies, am I right?
Regarding the Tyrian-Qrow teamup, the reason Qrow went for it was because Clover was 100% focused on capturing Qrow.
In the first part of the fight once Tyrian arrived, Qrow was focusing on Tyrian while Clover was only attacking Qrow. Even after Tyrian proposed the truce Qrow attempted to attack Tyrian and Clover interrupted it with his fishing hook. It was at that point he turned and looked at Tyrian and nodded. Basically clover was tunnel visioned on his most recent order, capturing Qrow. Strategically Qrow knew he couldn't win fighting both of them and would have preferred to take down Tyrian, but wasn't given that option.
It comes down to the same inflexibility you all talked about in the RWBY vs the rest of the Ace Ops fight. Clover wasn't budging on his orders. Tyrian is a wanted criminal and an agent of Salem, but the most recent order was to capture Qrow and so he 100% prioritized that. He didn't think on his own and assess what the bigger threat was.
yeah, he never help block hit to him, and tried a few time to just hit him, and ignore clover, where clover kept making it hard for Qrow to fight.
The reason Qrow went for it is because the writing is garbage
@@Finnyke written like that for a reason
It’s still a trash reason,focusing on the most recent order to capture Qrow as compared to first stoping Tyrian who is a bigger threat? It’s stupid
Both Qrow and Clover acted dumb in this fight. They should've either kept the fight a 1v1v1, or Qrow and Clover should've teamed up vs Tyrian and then settle their differences afterwards. Props to Tyrian for playing them both.
Vol1 - This Will be the Day
Vol2 - Time to Say Goodbye
Vol3 - When it Falls
Vol4 - Let's Just Live
Vol5 - Triumph
Vol6 - Rising
Vol7 - Trust Love
This will be the day, we say goodbye, for when it falls, so lets just live, through the triumph and when we rise, we trust love.
@@rnjrgreen8723 nice
If you think about it, this is Weiss' first solo victory against a person.
Vol. 2: Weiss vs. Chainsaw guy, Weiss loses
Vol. 3: Weiss vs. Flint Coal, Weiss loses (Yang was fighting Neon)
Vol. 5: Weiss vs. Vernal, Weiss loses (Cinder may have gotten the last hit, but Vernal broke her Aura)
Vol. 7: Weiss vs. Marrow, Weiss wins!
I've always thought of her as the DND Wizard who always ends up in a !v1 against Martial Classes.
I dont think people notice how Clover was going for ONLY QROW until he teamed up with Tyrian. In clovers mind Qrow was his mission. We see the ASOPS dont ask any questions and follow orders. Qrow seeing Tyrian was still up made his decision to go after him. But Clover literally got in his way every single time. Not helping at all trying to use the moments he was distracted to capture him. Qrow could either keep fighting 1v1v1 or turn it iinto a 2v1. But Clover obviously wasnt going to help him.
RE: Qrow pairing with Tyrion against Clover not being a "smart" or "good" choice...Tyrion was the only one offering to pair up. If Clover had even showed the slightest inclination to help Qrow attack Tyrion, I'd bet Qrow would have gladly chosen that partnership instead. However, Clover attacked Qrow while he was going after Tyrion.
Ultimately, no one except Tyrion made smart choices out of that group (Robyn included), and they all have to pay the rather hefty consequences.
Yeah people overlook that Clover teamed up with Tyrion first.
I mean, he's a trained serial killer, pretty sure that means he understand intelligent decisions while in combat
I think the Aces didn't have as much heart in arresting RWBY as RWBY did in staying free.
Also Ace Ops didnt have as much heart in abandoning the people of Mantle to die, as RWBY had in trying to save them.
Yes, this is more how I feel instead of they not having teamwork, especially since they were mostly fighting separated.
@@Kosomaddo "RWBY had in trying to save them" More like dying together with them, considering they have no plan whatsoever, but whatever...
Borsuq They would rather die fighting than live in fear and regret of abandoning the rest of the world which is what Ironwood resigned himself to do.
It's not just they didn't have heart, they were arguing with one another on how it should be done too. Harriet basically saying she'll kill them if necessary. Marrow arguing with her about it, saying that it is too excessive. Even Vine argued with Elm about it.
The last time that I’m aware of that they used the art style from the shot where Tyrian kills clover was when Yang lost her arm.
Another angle you could take for the team up is that Qrow and Tyrian took the crash head on while Clover escaped.
Clover would be close to 100% where as Qrow and Tyrian's aura would have been depleted from the crash.
Assuming the three are completely even in terms of skill, the fight can only go one of three ways.
If it remained a free for all, Clover would have come out on top due to having more aura and endurance and if Qrow and Clover teamed up, Clover could have easily defeated Qrow after he was exhausted from fighting Tyrian.
Or the two weakened fighters could team up to take on the stronger threat and then hopefully duke it out.
Qrow's biggest mistake was hoping Tyrian wouldn't escape Clover's binding.
"It's a Smash Bros alliance." That... was a surprisingly good summary of the situation.
Volume 1-7 themes: This will be the day, Time to say goodbye, when it falls, let’s just live, the triumph, rising and trust in love.
Shannon Hollis oh my god I hated that part where they talked about that........ I got so triggered 😂😂😂
@@jjmmm515 until Volume 6 I thought of Volume 4 as basically *the* RWBY theme song
Robyn: Ironwood underestimated me
-7 seconds later
*faceplants into the metal*
Ladies and gentlemen the people's champ
I really like Blind Wave's break downs about the pairing in all the fights. Ace Ops definitely had some questionable things, but I agree that there are many factors that could affect how they played out certain things. Marrow easily could've stopped the whole thing, so they made him hesitant, Harriet could've handled anyone else, but she was hard headed and stubborn, Elm was too vengeful and hotheaded, and Vine... well, could've been more aggressive? I dunno.
RWBY definitely knows how to take care of each other to say the least. I think back to how Clover declared Ace ops to be hand picked to focus on assets and leave zero liabilities. But RWBY is aware of each other other's weaknesses and seem benefit from that I guess? Ruby egged Harriet on knowing she could handle her, also blocked Marrow's attack from Weiss because she knows Weiss often needs time to strategize her attacks and is therefore exposed. Yang and Blake gathered their bearings and worked together, which is when they're at their best, and took out Vine, who was affecting their synergy at first.
Of course there is a lot of flaws with this fight, but it's still an amazing one and can be explained in a way. Here's to more good ones at least!
@SSS The reason the Ace Ops lost wasn't because they weren't powerful. They were hella powerful. They lost so easily because they simply just did not have the teamwork. Notice how Blake and Yang were really struggling with Elm and Vine when nobody was working together and the Ops were beating them out of pure strength. But then Yang and Blake began their synergy and working together, something Elm and Vine can't do. Once they used teamwork to their advantage, they team targeted the biggest threat aka Mr. Stretchy Arms. After they took out the biggest threat, they easily handled the smaller threat, being Elm. Not only that, but I'm sure including teamwork, a big factor in the AceOps loss was Vine getting defeated. It lowered their morale and boosted team RWBY's, and I'm somebody who can tell you this: morale is a big part of fighting, especially as a team.
Back in episode 4 of this volume Marrow said that the Ace Ops weren't friends just teammates and that could be one of the key things that gave RWBY the win in the end. They have been so close they knew not only how to work alone but also how they best work together. RWBY and JNR have been friends for years now and know how to cover each other's weaknesses while the Aces just rely on each individually being good and don't really work together as much.
It is worth noting that the Ace Ops could've captured RWBY immediately had Marrow used his stopping ability right at the beginning, but I guess he just wasn't too much into the idea of fighting the people he bonded with all this time
Marrow's the token good teammate, really.
If he wasn’t into the idea, then why not use the “stop” ability right away so there wouldn’t be any fighting?
Oh right, because he read the script and it said everyone had to be dumb that day
@@ToaArcan Marrow's loyal like a dog
@@14s0cc3r14 Because the rest of the Ops would've captured RWBY and maybe he didn't want that to happen because they're his new pals
Nicky Book Wanting to not capture them is different than not wanting to fight them
“It gives me...personal feelings” My favorite line this episode
I love Ruby's Line in this after Harriett said "We are the best Hunters in Atlas." And Ruby goes, "You Were." It's like Ruby is saying, You may be cool, but I'm the main protagonist, so you will lose. I knew Clover died and I was dreading this episode. I thought they could have been a good team, a friend that Qrow wouldn't have to worry about during a fight. It's unfair to give him a true friend then take them away.
To be fair on robyns actions she just got told
1 Iron wood somebody she thought she could trust and help just is seemingly betraying her
2 robyn the entire volume is about how she cares about it and wants to help mantle so when it turns out mantle is going to be left to die she obviously gets pissed as fuck i mean up to this point she been fed up with what mantle has had to suffer lack of protective wall grimm attacks the warehouse shit the heat shutting off ect so this thing with it be left to die realy sent her over the edge anger wise
By the way, the song this episode was sung by a quartet, with Casey and 3 guest singers, including Dawn Bennet who is Elm's voice actress.
I think Qrow was targeting Clover so heavily because Clover targeted him so heavily. He turned on Tyrian on two occassions, ignoring Tyrian's offer for an alliance UNTIL Clover kept going after him. Clover showed he wasn't willing to team up and only Tyrian really gave that offer. Plus, Qrow had a lot of personal feelings clouding his judgement in that battle.
Sorry, but from a writing stand point, I don't buy this justification. The problem with the writing here is WHY Qrow and Clover were targeting each other so hard and WHY clover wasn't willing to team up temporarily. It really makes no sense.
Qrow's personal feelings clouding his judgement? What feelings would cause him to team up with Tyrian against Clover? His deep hatred for Tyrian for poisoning him and attacking his niece? Or his good personal relationship with Clover up to this point? The motivation for this fight was a dim spot in an otherwise really good volume.
HiIeric117 clover isn’t the type of soldier who follows his orders to the point. If he gets a new order to capture qrow, then he needs to capture qrow ASAP. Therefore it makes sense to me why he would choose to go after qrow,
@@KasaiKouhai Sure, I can see that maybe starting the fight. But it makes no sense after the crash. He has orders to capture both Qrow and Tyrian and you're telling me that he chooses to focus on Qrow? Whaaat? It's nonsensical.
@@HiIeric117 They both think they can take on Tyrian, i expect, and consider the other the greater threat.
In Clover's experience, Tyrian went down pretty easily. So he thinks Qrow is the bigger threat. He was wrong.
There are countless comments that explain this better than me so I'll just say what people didn't say.
Qrow completed his illusion of 'Scarecrow' and lost his mind.
Robyn attacked, because last time she let Atlas militery have it's way, her city's wall didn't get repaired. Also she was thinking, if she gets to Atlas they will arrest her along with Qrow and her city will be left for dead.
Adrenaline rush, subsequent fear of loss.
People just look at the surface of this entire senario and say its trash, and dont try to go deep and think what would the characters are thinking at the moment.
Dude, the Olympics were cancelled this year. No need for the mental gymnastics
I agree with all of this.
@@14s0cc3r14 I'm just trying help self-proclaimed critics people and others who dont get it. Nothing gymnastics-y about this.
Love Moustache Helping self-proclaimed critics by being the self-proclaimed arbiter of truth? How very humble of you
@@14s0cc3r14 besides the more information and feedback from different perspectives the better right?
Qrow fought Clover because of math. Clover would not focus on Tyrian despite Qrow actively trying to avoid Clover to focus on the bigger threat. Mathematically, Qrow has a better chance of surviving if he's the 2 in the 2v1.
Then mathematically if he is the 2 in the 2v1 he killed clover
@@a3-radio Mathematically Clover killed himself because he refused to let Qrow handle Tyrian. He could've just as easily NOT attacked when Qrow was facing Tyrian and instead focused on the actual murderer first. But no, he decided bringing Qrow into custody was more important than the serial killer they had just arrested.
@@minusxero That's how I felt too, but read Memelord McTasty
's comment (one of the top comments) and my reply.
I have been waiting to see y'all reaction for this moment.
I’m sorry but Qrows a murder is the best unintentional pun ever
While I'm sure a bunch of people have already commented about this, I'm just going to throw this out there.
Qrow teamed up with Tyrian only after realizing that Clover wasn't going to give him the choice. At every opportunity Qrow tried to focus Tyrian, but Clover attacked him at every turn. This is also why Qrow joined the fight on the plane. Clover had to intention of ever thinking for himself and standing down.
The running theme of this episode was how NONE of Ironwood's top men ever thought for themselves. I think Winter put it best when she said "Ironwood is making the tough decisions so we don't have to" and repeatedly saying that her personal feelings don't matter.
This definitely was not a matter of causing a lot of in fighting for the sake of drama or whatever. This was actually foreshadowed and executed pretty well for the most part. They could have made the Qrow-Clover-Tyrian fight a little longer to more clearly paint the picture of what was going on to cause less confusion.
There were A LOT of people angry and confused at this episode and they misplaced blame for who was at fault. I'm really glad that you all handled this very maturely.
@@rainingcomplete3018 actually, they don't. before he dies he admits he was wrong, but that he felt it was his job to take the fall. Also, he's been established as VERY cocky and reckless thanks to his semblance.
Qrow kept trying to attack just Tyrian but everytime he tried Clover would stop and attack him. Tyrian was the only one giving Qrow an option. If Clover had just talked with Qrow the same way Tyrian did and made a deal to take out Tyrian than it would've been fine. So this was Clover's fault for being focused on the current mission of arresting Qrow.
That is a bit of a stretch, blaming clover for qrow siding with a literally mass murder it's the equivalent of you stealing something from someone and blaming them for having nice things
The situation wasn't well handle by any party, but qrow has the biggest portion of the blame
@@a3-radio
You gave a bad example compared to that situation in show.
Qrow was trying to attack just Tyrian at first, and it would have been all fine if Clover also went after Tyrian first. Instead Clover just kept trying to attack Qrow. Qrow can't fight both of them at once and Tyrian suggested a truce of taking Clover down first so that they can have their own fight. Considering that it was Tyrian who kept trying to break up Qrow and Clover's fight, Qrow didn't really have any better options. Clover would have just continued to attack Qrow and eventually they would both be too weak to fight Tyrian.
Of course, the team up with Tyrian didn't work out but there was no better option since Clover just forced Qrow's hand.
@@noox13 I understand your point I do, but "my only option is to team up with a murderer" from a person as theoretically experience as qrow is not just a bad decision it's as good as killing the dude himself, this isn't 1st season Ruby with no experience, this is a experience warrior that knows the horrible consequences of his decisions, it's unfortunate because a good 1v1v1 would have been an excellent way to send clover off instead of having both characters make poor decisions.
And about my example I guess you are right, it would be more similar to being the get away driver in a bank robbery
Relatively speaking, the Free-for-all was a battle between order (Clover) and chaos (Tyrian), while Qrow was the voice of reason. He knew 2v1 could have resulted in detaining Tyrian, who was in only for fun, while Clover is confident to battle both OR best-case-scenario, 1 K.O., resume the 1v1; something Tyrian could accomplish, as pointed out (15:55).
I'd love to see a "RWBY Soundtrack" Reaction and Discussion from these guys. What Jeff and Casey-Lee Williams (and all the other talented unmentioned people) do with the soundtrack is my favorite use of music in any show or movie. The Williams' basically release a whole new album, which has songs that provide insight and background to the characters, giving them new dimensions and development.
The worst part is even if Tyrian was the one to stab Clover, Qrow will still take the blame for his death because there's always that little bit in the back of his mind that says it's his fault because of his quirk.
marrow can make as many prople as he wants to stay but he cant hold to many people for long. His power works off line of sight if he sees you you’re staying.
Marrow's semblance seems to be a "cone of effect", so he can only do one *direction* at a time.....he did (temporarily) freeze multiple targets coming at him in the wake of Tyrian's massacre at the Election Night party....but they were all approaching from the same vector.
RWBY Vs Ace Ops: How to use the Power of Friendship in an anime fight the right way. Where actual knowledge of your friends’ fighting styles, thought patterns, strengths, and weaknesses led to the win and not a Zenkai boost. As well as a knowledge of what can set your opponent off.
Personally, I really liked the Ace Ops fight. They were divided among themselves and even arguing with one another on how to handle team RWBY. We only ever seen them fight a Poltergeist Grim and that was with Clover. We've seen RNGR/JNRR fight one before in Volume 4 but that's not really comparable, considering it wasn't team RWBY plus how much time passed.The Ace Ops were paired cause of their semblances work well together. That doesn't account for personality and or fighting styles.
I honestly feel like it's kinda dumb to pair people for that reason, if you're a hunter/huntress then you need to learn how to adapt to any future partners. Ruby had to adapt back when she was with RNGR/JNRR, and I think she did well: Like shooting Nora with a electric dust fused bullet back in vol 4. Blake had to adapt Sun's back then too. Also, like Tai said to Yang, you can't just solely rely on your semblance.
The Ace Ops don't even have their leader or his semblance. We don't really know how many times Clover's good luck has activated. I think the mistake some people make is that Clover's semblance only affects him, but it's like Qrow's, it affects everyone. You can say Clover's Semblance affected Tyrian when Clover's weapon cut the seat restraint. BUT you can also that was Qrow's bad luck. It's a toss up, they don't cancel out each other out. We saw that back with the Geist grim too in the tunnels. I feel like when they're together their semblance is like the saying "A blessing in disguise" or "Bad luck disguised as good luck."
Also, all the Ace Ops fell cause of their fables.
The lucky fisherman not being patient. Clover not waiting to arrest Qrow. (I also put some of the blame on Robyn tho)
The rabbit being too competitive. Ruby is like the Tortoise of the story. Her fight was the last finished, and she probably knew she there was a chance she wouldn't win against Harriet. But, taking it slow and steady, Harriet is a semblance that is no longer in play for the Ace Ops. Marrow could've used her help against Weiss when he froze her, but the her competitive nature got the best of her.
The dog with a bone jumping into the water without thinking because he was jealous of his reflection and wanted it's bone. Marrow froze the Gigas summon, but doing so released Weiss.
The Elm and Vine support each other, but Elm and Vine were split among themselves. Blake and Yang took them out together one by one, focusing on Vine first. Which, if you look at the faces of all the Ace Ops when that happened, they really started questioning themselves and it also lowered their morale. Then Yang used her semblance to break the ground that allowed Elm to root herself. With no more support, Blake and Yang were able to defeat her as well.
Oscar got the first solid hit on Neo, that I can recall too.
That was stupid.
@@ElvenPrince Honestly the entire confrontation between JNOR and Neo bothers me a shitload. No spoilers, but man it feels like Neo got nerfed.
@@PrimalInfinity yeah saw that and it was cool but ORNJ should be smart enough to attack at the same time. But yeah neo got nerfed a bit. From what I heard that was an animation error with distance.
@@PrimalInfinity But...she won.
@@ElvenPrince Ornj huh? Fun name.
Qrow: lets go and talk to james personally
Robin: nah i wanna fight in a flying vehicle
Qrow: hmmm alright then lets do that.
Right!? They made all the characters dumb in this episode to push the plot forward
One of my least favorite episodes in this volume.
Let's not forget the now infamous (and nonsensical) Neo Punch by the farm boy.
12:25 And thats three "Oh dang!"
The weak answer to the contrivance of Qrow and Tyrion teaming up is it was an emotionally charged decision.
Qrow went into this volume sceptical of Ironwood and Atlas, allowed himself to trust both as time went on (despite what is clearly years of mistrust, as well as his innate fear of opening up to anyone in general), and, like with his sister two volumes back, his hope and trust were let down, here; when Clover took the order.
Add to that a layer of arrogance and pride that Qrow DOES have from time to time (he does see himself as an exceptional circumstance in this grand plot, not a pawn for someone else), and it wouldn't take much convincing in that situation, that Qrow's best bet is to remove the pawn threat in Clover, then beat Tyrion, because in his eyes, deep down, he's the only one there who can.
Obviously, more than once, Qrow is as much a victim of his own folly as he is his own semblance.
Contextually, the team up makes little sense other than to create some chaos. It's one of the primary reasons why, despite looking fantastic, practically on par with Monty's stuff, it's a little too contrived a scenario.
I'm a lot more interested, if anything, in seeing the full extent of the fallout with Qrow.
Also, Qrow's and clover's semblances are likely at work here. Clover' semblance benefits him, specifically and he wants to do his job. Qrow's makes things worse for everyone. put them together and Clover gets his excuse for an arrest.
Plus, clover is shown to be VERY cocky with his own semblance to the point of carelessness.
Awesome reaction to these awesome battles! :) The Ace Ops holds those Ls losing to team RWBY and their leader Clover being killed.
There is a theory as to why the Ace-Ops were defeated: They didn't learn the moral of the fables they are based on.
I hope you guys can check out the OST's. It's crazy how much foreshadowing and context the lyrics provide for the series.
I have a different take on why the Ace-Ops was defeated:
1 - Some of the Ace-Ops weren't serious, if all of them were serious from the beginning then team RWBY wouldn't stand a chance.
2 - They got overconfident and cocky thinking that they would win easily, they forgot that team RWBY was improving little by little.
3 - Clover wasn't there, most of the success of the Ace-Ops was probably due to the "Good Luck Semblance" which made it easier for them, without the "Good Luck Semblance" they got overconfident and lost.
Wow this Ep. is so fitting for whats going on in the US right now.
Ruby: I got you.
Harriet: I can still headbutt & kick you!
It made me happy that Penny asserted her moral objections to Winter.
When I first watched this episode I was also very confused by the decision to essentially ignore Tyrian and fight each other. Though the more I thought about it, the more it started to make sense. This show has always used the characters' inspirations as a part of their personality and story line. For instance, Ironwood, being the Tin Man, has his downfall when he forgets his heart. Lionhart's downfall is when his cowardice takes over. It then makes sense that Qrow's downfall, being the scarecrow, would be when he doesn't use his brain. Logically, it makes sense to make sure you take down the insane serial killer first, but that's the point of him ignoring that to fight Clover. In this moment he's forgetting to use his brain and just acting on instinct and frustration which leads to him losing what could have been an incredible friendship with the one person he can be around without his semblance messing up their life.
On top of that, he TRIES to attack Tyrian. Even after Tyrian suggests they team up. But every time he attacks Tyrian, Clover hits him in the back. He doesn't have a choice at that point.
"What would you guys do without me?"
Get their asses kicked by Team RWBY, apparently.
ITS BEACON ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!
And so Penny got her wish from earlier this volume!
When Clover said: "I trust James with my Life!", I said "and it'll cost you that, too." then *stab*
The trouble with a "Good luck" semblance is....everyone's luck runs out eventually.....and that was sheer hubris on Clover's part, not teaming back up with Qrow again.
This episode show that with Team RWBY get a Mary Sue fight...
1 Ruby power is her changing to flower petals an doing the same with other when touching them. So i ask how she breakthrough a safe room door? And to add this on how the Hell did Ruby not get O.K in that fight, all she did is run an take hits from a real Speedster that was not pulling her punches.
2 the delayed bomb charge on the rock up to Blake then Blake shadow a clone with bomb in side it? What this broken ass shit...Is RWBY try to cut an paste Naruto in this show now?
3 Yang punch the ground and the Ace go up? How? She should have flew into the wall and kinetic energy doesn't work like that, a punching down does not push something up
It was like watching the Yang VS Tifa death match that has all good looks but it was a rigged fight.
This new "social distancing" setup made me realize that you guys have the lights matching with your Team REAC shirts... but it's missing the correct order so I guess you could just swap them out while editing right?
Yayyyy :) I love seeing you guys reacting to this. Sad it's almost done :(
14:53 Whelp, somebody on CRWBY watched Rogue One, that's for sure.
I blame the fisherman boy's death on ROBYN -_- WHO starts a fight on a small plane that carries a murderous psychopath on board?!
technically that altercation started because of Clover. he was his own undoing. He had a job to get the world's most dangerous serial killer in a cell, and instead he jumped the gun and decided he wanted to arrest Qrow on the spot. Qrow even agreed to go peacefully and talk things out, but nope. Couldn't wait.
THEEYE SEESALL We actually don’t know that.
Clover: “I’ve been ordered to arrest you”
Qrow: “let’s talk to James”
Robyn: “let’s fight”
Qrow: “lol nvm let’s fight”
I’m inclined to agree... she actively escalated a situation that Qrow was trying to de-escalate. If she had allowed Qrow to talk to Clover they may have been able to make it Atlas which would have been the best case scenario and was also what Qrow wanted to do.
@@14s0cc3r14 except Qrow's the one who continues to ask for them to stop while clover says it has to be this way. and Clover does actually say he IS going to arrest qrow, even saying to Robyn it's going to happen, don't make me arrest you too before she fires.
The thing is, she just saw ironwood declare martial law and turn on a large number of his allies with no explanation, the exact thing she's been afraid of all this time, after ruby sends a message outlining his plan to leave mantle and it's people to die. We've spent the arc seeing her asking for information and trying to fix the walls while the streets crawling with Grimm, and shut out. It's she's very likely to believe it, and it's going to hit her hard.
plus Tyrian, the man who massacred her men, has been riling her up, and even the characters mention their tired and on edge after the night's events.
also, Qrow's and clover's semblances are likely at work here. Clover' semblance benefits him, specifically and he wants to do his job. Qrow's makes things worse for everyone. put them together and Clover gets his excuse for an arrest.
I am not saying she was completely right, but she's not the only one at fault here.
Clover's death really upset a lot of more hardcore fans when this episode first came out, so I'm glad to see you guys take a much more positive approach to it, even if you weren't fully on board with it. Clover kind of forced Qrow to team up with Tyrian because Clover was deadset on bringing them both in and was overconfident enough to try.
honestly all I want is a RWBY OST reaction. it adds so much to the story!
13:45 Well... I mean, she is 4’1”.
I have a different take on why the Ace-Ops was defeated:
1 - Some of the Ace-Ops weren't serious, if all of them were serious from the beginning then team RWBY wouldn't stand a chance.
2 - They got overconfident and cocky thinking that they would win easily, they forgot that team RWBY was improving little by little.
3 - Clover wasn't there, most of the success of the Ace-Ops was probably due to the "Good Luck Semblance" which made it easier for them, without the "Good Luck Semblance" they got overconfident and lost.
4:48 WHY'D HE JUST JUMP??
HES GOT LUCK ON HIS SIDE
Bro im donnneeeee
When I showed my friend V7 as soon as we got to Clover's death he just yelled out "HE FUCKING KILLED HIM!"
10:24 well said my friend well said
Combine that with Tyrian laughing and you see what happens in my mind when I have an alliance with another player against one annoying or unfair player in a free for all xD
Tyrian... I love that guy
The ace-ops were based off the aesop's fables.
Well, some of the aces weren't going to hurt/kill. Same can't be said for rwbyq. And tbf: Qrow didn't pair with tyrian until clover kept attacking him instead of tyrian
My (D&D-based) mental shorthand for this episode: When the Paladin(s) go from Lawful Good to Lawful Stupid.
After that discussion, I'm convinced Qrow couldnt beat clover. For one he'd be holding back and two his own semblance can work against him double fold as it did in this fight because he is subject to his own bad luck and is working against clover''s good luck that techincally makes qrow have more bad luck. His only option was to team up with tyrian
Marrow can only stop one direction, not person. He stopped the entire crowd in the episode where the bad guys blamed Penny for the attacks so the good guys could get away.
i'd like to point out that ruby herself i feel is really nerfed in non grimm fights because the weapons pretty tailored to fight monsters.
"With friends like these." Is the Dark brotherhood showing up?
I never understood why anyone would be shocked by Clover’s death. Like, who would ever think Tyrion would do anything differently?
Oke so I screamed my lungs out!!! No!!! Why did he have to die??? No....
Clover focussed on Qrow because at this point Tyrian had lost his Aura recently and could only have recovered a little in the meantime, not to mention just been in a crash. Tyrian was at this point far less of a threat than he would usually be whereas Qrow was much closer to full power (he did quite well in the crash relative to Tyrian). If he teamed up with Qrow to put down Tyrian first then he would be left with Qrow nearly at full capacity as an opponent, however if he can weaken Qrow while it is still a free for all then he stands a much better chance against two weakened opponents. Unfortunately for Clover Tyrian is a much better at playing this type of game than him, Tyrian saw right through it and twisted the battle back against Clover. Qrow obviously was given very little choice in who to fight under the circumstances that were thrust upon him. Qrow's biggest error was getting emotional at Clover's behaviour enough that he was distracted from Tyrian once Clover became vulnerable.
The RWBY/Ace Ops fight- I feel like you guys hit most of the nails on this one, but the one other thing I'd point out is that the Ops were missing their lucky charm leader. As established in the fight against the geist, its Clover who organises them and decides who focuses on what. Without him, leadership defaulted to Harriet, who was hot-headed, competetive and hyper focussed on her speed rivalry that she refused to focus on the other fighters. If Vine or Elm could have kept Ruby occupied, Harriet could probably take down Weiss, Blake and Yang with relative ease. So even without taking his semblence into account, they were hamstung by Clover's absence.
As for Qrow/Clover- I do think they could have made the characters decision making a bit more clear, but when thought about they do make sense. And not for the whole 'Clover is a nationalist focussing on his last orders' thing.
When Tyrian shows up during their 1v1 its very telling that Qrow immediately abandons fighting Clover in order to attack Tyrian, only for Clover to interfere. He does this several times. Hell, even when Tyrian first proposes his alliance, Qrow disregards it and once again goes straight for Tyrian only to be nearly disarmed by Clover's fishing pole. So, why is Clover focussing on Qrow? Well, I interpreted it as him being confident that he could beat Tyrian in a 1v1 (where his semblence would give a huge advantage) but not so sure about Qrow (whose semblence levels the playing field). So he decides to try and take Qrow down first (thinking that no-way would he and Tyrain ever ally together meaning Qrow would be trying to fight against 2 skilled opponents at once) so that he can then have an easier, almost sure to win fight after once Qrow is subdued.
Qrow on the other hand, is focussing on the one he's got the bigger grudge against regardless of the fact that Clover is probably the bigger threat to him, at least until he realises that Clover will not allow him to focus on Tyrian.
And while I agree they should have focussed on Tyrian, its not because he's the 'bigger threat'. Because, frankly, he's not. As skilled as Tyrian is, he's at best on par with Qrow. They were pretty even back in vol 4 until Ruby got involved and Qrow had to split his attention to protect her from both Tyrian and his own semblence. And as we see in this fight, Clover is more than capable of not only holding his own against both Tyrian and Qrow at the same time but in fact completely subduing one and disarming the other. Tyrian wouldn't have had a chance in a 1v1 against Clover and against Qrow it'd be a close-run thing and if theres no one else around to get in the way, that would probably go Qrow's way too.
Clover arrived to the Geist fight way later, they had already worked really well together without him. All he did was call out for the dust pieces.
There's also the matter of aura levels in the Qrow/Clover/Tyrian fight. While we don't have an exact idea of where they stood, Clover was likely nearly full, Qrow was just in a plane crash, and Tyrian was in a plane crash while his aura was recovering. As such, odds were that Qrow was likely to last longer than Tyrian, making him more of a threat to Clover.
How that conversation should have gone if they were reasonable:
“Clover, I’ll let you take me in without a fight so all three of us can have a conversation with James, but first we have to make sure Tyrian is in a prison cell.”
“Okay.”
The Ace Ops are each based on one of Aesops tales and each one's biggest flaw is the moral of their own story.
Clover - Impatience
Harriet - Overconfidence
Elm and Vine - Teamwork
Marrow - Indecision
I don't really like the argument that Team RWBY won because they have better teamwork. I mean, of course they work well but it was never said the Ace Ops didn't, I guess most people assume that because of Marrow's comment about Blake and Yang never being apart in the earlier episodes, but that was probably something more to their ship than teamwork... the Ace Ops are professionals who have work together far longer than RWBY, they only don't see themselves as "friends" (or that's what Harriet says, but they sure act like friends quite a lot). I'm fine with team RWBY winning but I think it has more to do with AceOps being overconfident and emotionally conflicted (Harriet and Elm were angry, Marrow didn't want to fight).
I still think that at least one of team RWBY should've lost juuuuust to keep the power level in check tho...
I am fine (grudgingly) with RWBY beating the AceOps if the plot called for it.
I just wish they had to earn that win. It was way too easy. I don't accept that they got that good that quick. Basically the best huntsman in the world now?
Seems like the AceOps were nerfed just to give RWBY a big win.
When people say "RWBY had better teamwork" I roll my eyes because that fight was two 1v1s and one 2v2, the latter being because Blake and Yang apparently aren't allowed to be apart from each other in any scene EVER. I guess a 2 out of 4 team up somehow equals good teamwork for the team overall.
I agree with everything you said but I can invent a reasonable excuse on why the Ace-Ops lost the fight, here's my excuse:
1 - Some of the Ace-Ops weren't serious, if all of them were serious from the beginning then team RWBY wouldn't stand a chance.
2 - They got overconfident and cocky thinking that they would win easily, they forgot that team RWBY was improving little by little.
3 - Clover wasn't there, most of the success of the Ace-Ops was probably due to the "Good Luck Semblance" which made it easier for them, without the "Good Luck Semblance" they got overconfident and lost.
It was explained in volume 8 that they lost because of feelings or something like that.
One of the big reasons, which I really like, for the AceOps vs RWBY fight is that the AceOps are coworkers. They were picked to be efficient and they are working together. Team RWBY are friends and that gives them a huge advantage over the AceOps. It would've been cool to maybe see a closer, more intense fight but overall RWBY has reasons why they should win,they are also very skilled. Then on top of that everything everyone else has been saying about the weakness/strengths, the fable morals etc.
I appreciate the logic they discuss behind why team RWBY would be able to win against the Ace Ops rather than all the people thinking the ace ops should have just won simply because they're Atlas special operative Huntsmen. It's similar to Emerald and Mercury embodying CFVY but Yang being able to go toe to toe with Mercury. Just because you're a year two student or a special forces unit doesnt guarantee a victory. Especially if the way you fight is very lacking in speed and mobility and all around lacking in anything aside from brute force like CFVY.
If I'm being honest, a smash brothers alliance perfectly describes Qrow's action in a light we can understand. I also realized that Weiss didn't even get hit, she wasn't moved from her position against her will, the Knight fighting the whole time. It goes to show that Marrow was reluctant the whole time.
NEXT WEEK NEXT WEEK NEXT WEEK!!!!
Cinder will need all 4 maiden powers in order to beat Salem.
Lowkey disappointed we didn't get to see Neo-as-Ruby try to disarm/surprise Oscar by wordlessly planting a kiss on him or something.
although we DID get ren
Qrow and Tyrion is the scariest team up !
I was surprised but Tyrion can be an incredibly supportive fighter. Especially the 15:52 moment. He’s great at matching his teammate’s flow and fighting in tandem. While he’s bat shit insane, he’s still a amazing teammate if he truly has your back.
well the Clover/Crow ship has sunk
Until it’s actually stated by the writers themselves, it never sailed in the first place.
That whole Qrow-Clover-Tyrian fight was such a writers' fart... Anyone else, but psycho serial killer, would make more sense - even ignoring bigger picture etc.
And Crow will probably start drinking again
I love how both Qrow and Clover forgot that Tyrian is a Murderous Murdering Murderer who works for The Evil Incarnate and decided that he was less of a threat than the other guy...
Qrow did not forget. He went after Tyrian consistently
@@KevSB07 Clover was also more impatient, but so far that's fit with what we've seen of him - diving in and trusting his good luck to get him through.
Honestly, something that might get over looked. WE know how much qrow is stupidly insecure and hates his semblance. He feels cursed and pretty much is. So in a 3 for all fight, where one person is roughly evenly matched between qrow and tyrian, In a pure 1v1 qrow probably thinks its a death sentence to have to fight clover. he has all the advantages that qrow has had to not have. If qrows goal is to fight clover but not kill him, and clovers goal is to beat qrow, then not only is CLOVERS semblance working against Qrow, but qrows own semblance is both bringing misfortune Against his goal of Beating clover and also not killing him. It was a death sentence if qrow didnt work with tyrion due to the nature of theiur relationship as friends, and opponents, and also that there was a third member in the fight.
I know this comment is a little different from the rest but I think you'd like 10 little roosters. It's another show made by Roosterteeth and it's fine to just jump right into without actually knowing the people involved. To summarise it's a murder mystery.
I 100% with Eric: Qrow and Clover should have teamed up against Tyrian, defeat him and THEN fight between them again.
The stakes changed the moment Tyrian get loose. Tyrian was ALSO a "WANTED" person and objectively at a higher level than Qrow.
So Clover should have proposed a deal to Qrow but not Tyrian to Qrow.
But... The writers had to make the characters stupid for the sake of the plot.
That episode got me extremely frustrated, I'm glad to see Eric thinks the same way about the fight with Clover-Tyrian-Qrow.
LOL. Sorry, but how is Tyrian objectively better than Qrow? They were on pretty even footing back in vol 4 and Tyrian only got the upper hand because Qrow had to focus on protecting Ruby from both himself and from Tyrian. With no outside interference, that fight could go either way. And with Qrow's semblence, it pushes the odds more in his favour.
And you're not looking at Clover's side of this. He's probably very confident at being able to take down Tyrian 1v1 (his 'good luck' makes that an almost certainty) but Qrow (whose semblence counters Clover's) is more of a gamble. If he assumed that there was no way Qrow would team with Tyrian, then it makes perfect sense to focus on him first.
@@adamhughes4387 I did not say Tyrian was better than Qrow but more dangerous. Tyrian is a killer psychopath, not Qrow. If someone has to be arrested first, it is objectively Tyrian. As for their respective skills/strenght, I would say the two are evenly matched (yes Qrow has his bad luck but Tyrian has his "erasing" aura semblance which he didn't even use against Qrow back in V4) but that is not the point like I said.
As for Clover, the argument that working with Qrow against Tyrian might be a bad combination is fragile ; the two precisely fought together against Tyrian in the previous episode and they held their ground pretty well. It is clear Robyn helped but it is not just like Clover and Qrow's semblances cancelled each other out and Robyn's semblance overcame Tyrian's. It makes no sense, it is not just about semblances.
@@alexandreolle2340 When you said Tyrain was 'objectively at a higher level than Qrow' I assumed you meant fighting ability. If not then my mistake. You're right that Tyrian, due to pyscotic nature and serial killer tendencies, is much more dangerous than Qrow to not only Clover but a whole load of other people too.
I never said that Clover and Qrow is a bad combination. I said that Clover might be more confident at being able to take Tyrian 1v1 than he would be against Qrow. Clover has luck on his side fighting against Tyrian and his weapon is perfectly suited to disarmed and disabling opponents at range, which is a perfect counter to Tyrian's erractic close quarters combat. We've seen Clover twice be able to tie Tyrian up without any real issue. But his fighting style is less suited to fighting Qrow and while Clover would still benefit from his good luck charm, he'd also be hindered by Qrow's bad luck.
As for the fight in the last episode, I didn't see a single thing that could 100% be attributed to either Qrow or Clover's semblence. And Robyn's semblence is of no use in a fight anyway. That fight was won because three skilled opponents worked together pretty effectively to take down a lone opponent. That fight was so short its unlikely either of the fortune semblences even had a chance to effect it.
@@adamhughes4387 I was refering to the "WANTED" aspect just before writing about the "level", so what I had in mind was the level of dangerosity but I should have made that more clear too. As for Clover, I agree he has two reasons (fighting style and semblance) to favour fighting against Tyrian rather than Qrow. Now about a combination of Clover and Qrow against Tyrian (regardless of the obvious priority to capture him), the thing is that both Clover and Qrow can control their semblances (as any other semblance). Even if it was made clear that it is extremely difficult to have total control on your own semblance (even for a trained huntsman) and that luck semblances are apparently harder to control, we can assume that Clover and Qrow are sufficiently skilled to control their semblances in such a way that Tyrian would be at a very significant disadvantage. And during their fight with Robyn, I think it happened. Like you said, Clover was able to tie Tyrian up pretty easily. Is it just because of Clover's skills ? Because of his skills combined with his semblance used on himself ? Because of his skills, his semblance used on himself and Qrow's used on Tyrian ? I think it is the last option but we can't really say. I don't think luck semblances need time to work, it was never said (or I missed it). We had several examples with Qrow with an unfortunate event happenning even if he didn't want it implying that his semblance is always at work and can translate into something tangible at any moment. And that is precisely what is tricky about luck semblances during fights ; it is likely Clover and Qrow were using their semblances but impossible to see when they manifested themselves in a concrete way on Tyrian.
So back to the Qrow-Tyrian-Clover, I'm deeply convinced that the logical way would have been to have 1) Clover and Qrow teaming up against Tyrian and arrest him again then 2) get back to Atlas and discuss with Ironwood. But I think I know why the writers decided to go the way they did ; it is because of the tales Qrow and Clover are based on. I don't remember the names of the corresponding characters but at some point, Qrow is supposed to lose his mind and Clover his patience. Which indeed happened: Qrow lost his mind when he learnt Ironwood called for his arrest, when he saw Clover going at him straight for it without hesitation, when Tyrian got loose and provoked him. And Clover did not have the patience to wait to land in Atlas to arrest Qrow or even discuss with Ironwood. But all of this seemed rushed to me, very sudden and thus not right. Tyrian is such a threat, Qrow should have never consider teaming up with him, I mean Qrow is smart goddamnit. Same for Clover ; painted as a cool-wise-rational guy all the way and suddenly he wants to arrest Qrow without second thought. I get the loyalty thing and I know it makes sense overall but I can't help to feel it was rushed.
If Qrow actually gets blamed for Lucky Charms death, Atlas has the most incompetent police force in the world. The footprints alone are clear, not to mention the fingerprints.
Sure, they will arrest him, but if this goes to trial, its BS.
When u realise Weiss is tryin to take wolf bois life
she was trying to break his aura!
Turian reminds me of Joker from Batman
React to the new trailer of Attack on Titan! Plessss
At 4.30 he says what the entire fandom thought of this scene and fight. "What the fuck is this?" Its stupidly handled, excuted and just makes no sense. What really makes it worse is Robyn shoots an arrow at someone with an aura so it wouldn't hit him anyway and he has a good luck semblance. The whole scene is garbage
So was I the only one that was against team rwby this entire season, like from the moment they started lying to ironwood
I really hate this episode or more specifically one particular event in this episode, Robyn was an idiot for firing the first shot and Qrow and Clover were idiots for continuing to fight each other instead of taking care of Tyrian together.