▶️Clocking,Gapping & Installing Pistons Properly (Honda) "How To"🔧
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ต.ค. 2024
- ▶️Clocking,Gapping & Installing Pistons Properly (Honda) "How To"🔧.I put this video together the day after I had to do a complete engine tear down, so pardon the longevity of the video, I was lacking a lot of sleep due to a overnight engine over haul.
I pretty much go over the basic need to know knowledge on how to properly clock,gap & install the piston into the cylinders on the majority of Honda's such as D,B,H & K-series, look to your manual for the correct clocking & gaping information as each vehicle can differ. Download my "Free" (Honda Torque Specs) App for Android Here:tinyurl.com/maa...
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Hi can i use npr rings on stock oem b16a pistons?
Nthefastlane is this stock pistons or npr pistons?
Thank you so much for this info. I was thinking the ring orientation was like rocket science since other videos don't show exactly what's happening and have a drawn picture. The side by side book explaining and closeup footage was alot more information and easy to learn from.
The 3-piece oil ring installation !! The correct installation should be
as following: Install firstly the spacer ring on the piston and put its 2
edges at piston's pin side no matter L or R and the spacer edges should
not jump each other !!. Then starting opposite of this "ring spacing",
place one of the two (thin rings) by turning spirally until seated
properly and 1cm offset of this virtual axe !! Now place again the one
of the two (thin rings) by turning spirally until seated properly and
1cm offset of this virtual axe, but not at the same side as the previous
ring. So finally the 2 thin rings should be at the 150 and 210 degrees
(opposite of) the spacer ring's clearance. Now install (spirally) the
2nd from top compression-scraper (dark color) ring and finally install
(spirally) the top compression (chrome edged) ring!! Lubricate with
plenty engine oil and turn them around several times to insure
lubrication goes into rails. Now turn them to their final positions
before inserting piston into cylinder, ensure all ring edges should be
at left or right of piston pin and not at the same side of piston pin !!
by this way you can have the best compression sealing and oil scraping
back to crankcase. Never put a ring clearance at 90 degrees of piston
rod (because these sides have the most gasses pressure). I hope this
will help a lot, those who aren't professionals, but enthusiasts to
learn more !! Have a happy and succeeded installing, if you follow my
given steps !! :-D
Hi, do you have to file to specs the middle piston ring gap as well?
@@TheSilverSurfisher no not even honda does that.
your camera is great... focus really good
bro u just save me so much time and money i really appreciate it great vid💯
The easiest way I have found to clean out the piston grooves is a old ring that came off the piston or soak them in carburetor cleaner. Not carb spray. This comes in a gallon can like paint. Rinse with water and blow them off with air. They will look like brand new pistons.
Very good video. Thank you very much!
William Irizarry veri good video
Nice well done ! BTW Vinegar will de-carbon !
This guy put the ring on the wrong side of the grinder. listen to to uneven sound it was making when he turned the wheel, this is because the grinder was lifting the ends of the ring as it was turning. If you want a even cut always place the ring on the side of the grinder wheel that is rotating downward or you can place it as he did, but turn the wheel counter clockwise.
Good day. I really enjoyed the TH-cam video. How can I get the textbook you used in teaching?
All the engines i have worked on the bolts have gone into the caps and bolted to the connecting rods.
Always grind the ring inward not towards the cylinder.
super videos, grüße aus Deutschland! [Hondafanboy]
Nice work
Nice Video, Jeremy! I like the opening Rev limiter and burn-out.
How is the B18 running now after the overhaul?
What type of headgasket would you recommend?
I enjoy your thoroughness, and how you clean and check all specs!
Dan A Thanks Dan! Well It's at my shop about 75% fished, I've recorded everything for the "Top Mount Turbo Build Part 2" up until now. I have to fit and tig all of my intercooler piping and exhaust pipe. Then it's off to the dyno for some numbers which I'll get footage of that for you guy's.
Just curious as to what manual is that. I'm thinking about purchasing one.
It's called a Haynes repair manual. If you'd like to get the downloadable version that works right off your phone or your computer anytime you need it and not have to worry about the pages getting greased up, I sell them on my website here: www.nthefastlane.com/auto-repair-manuals
hi mate. Some documents showing as the piston rings oriantation, top ring look to piston pin 90 degree , some docs, top ring parallel the piston pin. Whic one is correct. I think if prevent the touch to piston skirt to cylinder walls, then we need piston ring gap must be paralell to piston pin. Top compression and secon ring gaps parallel to piston pim both edges. can you please your comments.
How do you knw the correct gap size ??
Nice video
Hi bro i have b20b wiseco piston if i change piston ring can i use npr piston ring
What grit and material ball hone did you use?
The ball hones are in my store. Link is pinned to the top comments.
I tried installing My pistons today I got 2’of 4 done.
Finally a Honda driver that's not a ricer
Ricers be like how do I replace the piston rings on my rotary
Awesome video. I have an h22a4 engine prwlude. Do you put the 1st and 2nd ring gap on the intake side ? And the oil gaps on the exhaust? Or vise versa? Also i read my cylinders are FRM material and do not hone. Do you have any insight boss , since you are the God of honda!
Great video!!
Thanks Jci!
Great video! Have you ever replaced your connecting rod bolts? Thinking of using some ARP connecting rod bolts.
tubejim101 No, but you just press them in. I have Manley H beams rods with Wiseco HD 9:0:1 pistons now.
How did those NPR rings work out for you? I'd love to use OEM on my Civic but they are discontinued. :(
Thanks you
question So do you only need to check the end gap on the compression ring?
the ring side clearance also needs to be checked, when your just re-ringing any piston
thank you for your video. It was a great help. I did this on a 98 Honda Civic with 250,000 miles lol, back in early Aug. Now the compression is great in all 4 cylinders! Doesn't burn oil anymore!! And the biggest issue fixed was the idling/misfire problem it had!!!! Thanks again! I really appreciate people like you that make DIY videos. This really helped out a lot! It's amazing that I was able to do this under $100 for the rings, honing tool, oil, assembly lube, rod bearings, and gaskets/head bolts. Amazing!!
Would the clocking work on a f22b1
Sir
What is the best aftermarket brand for Honda Civic D17A engine
The Honda parts is really expensive. Like $200 for the 4 pistons
So ring marked as #1 goes at the top then ring marked #2 goes second from top, then oil rings at bottom?
That is correct.
what about the rod bearing????
shouldnt you first hone the cylinders and then do the piston ring gapping?
***** It really doesn't matter because it's not really removing any size to the cylinder. If you hone first, the rings will be a little tougher to get in because of the x pattern scratching.
Is that car still running?
do the rings not move when the engine is running !
John Batchelor
As long as the cylinder walls, pistons, ring lands /grooves and the rings themselves are properly sized then movement is verry minomal if any at all. any shifting of tbe rings and we are talking only a few degrees takes tens of thousands of miles.
If your rings shift that means the pisto. and or cylinder are worn. New pistons, rings, and an expensive day at the machine shop for the block.
What’s the honing girt #
turn the tool lever the other way next time. from out to inside filing the end gap is better
What's brand pistons and rods did you install?
I ended up using Manley Rods/Wiesco HD Pistons 9:0:1.. All in my shopping cart under the video. Check the link.
Great videos!! Question, how do you know how much to take off or what's the spec for the ring gap
The vehicles manual tells you. For aftermarket, call the ring manufacture or a engine builder.
Do you think .024" gap on top rings is too much?, I ordered piston rings and they all have .022-.024" gap out of the box, the second rings gap is .016"
Or Do you know the piston rings gap limit on a d17a2 honda engine?
The service limit for the top ring for the D- series and B-series is 0.024in. It might be possible that you have the wrong rings. A d16 top ring should be between (0.006-0.012), 2nd Ring (0.012-0.018). I would definitely check to make sure you have the right rings because you were more than likely at the service limit for the top ring. I'm pretty certain it should not be that big of gap for the first ring. The first ring should always have a smaller gap than the 2nd ring.
Here are the D17A2 end ring gaps:
Top ring
standard(new): 0.006" to 0.012"
service limit 0.024"
2nd ring
standard(new): 0.012" to 0.018"
service limit 0.024"
Oil control ring
standard(new): 0.008" to 0.028"
service limit 0.031"
@@Nthefastlane thanks for replying, I will ordered oem piston rings now, I honed the cylinders but I dont think that's the problem because old rings gap is around
.014" - .016"
Hi mate. Once when i was installing my rings (the same brand as yours), I putted the N mark down instead up. Could this mistake take me engine to low compression? And can ruined the walls?
Should hurt much, If you have good compression and no oil burning just run it.
Wow, as much as I hate to disparage someone who is trying to help other people out, there are right and wrong ways to do everything. The reason the right way is so important in an engine is because while the wrong way may get the engine running again, and it might even run well and sound good for a while, it will most likely only be a short while and may leave you in a much worse position, with a badly worn engine, or a blown one. There are all sort of performance part manufacturers who make videos on how to correctly install / use their parts, and also many of the large parts retailers have them too. I would say that if you aren't a professionally trained mechanic, then maybe get your information from a manufacturer / seller who will give you the right information. Apart from the ring filing issues, there are quite a few things that made me gasp, including the idea that you can hone a bore successfully with the crank still in the block. Apart from the high possibility of damaging the crank/ journals, there is the issue of introducing contaminants to the motor, in this case debris from the ball heads of the hone tool, which wears away as it cuts the bore. This debris will be extremely abrasive and because it's mixed with oil is capable of finding it's way into all sorts of places that can't possibly be cleaned with a little spray of brake clean. Once the motor is back together and running this abrasive goes wherever it likes, upsetting critical clearances like oil pump rotor clearances, piston ring to land clearances, piston pin bore clearances, etc. While all these are not absolutely critical to keeping your engine running, they are critical to making it run well for a long mileage. In any engine building task, I would not use plastic except to seal a finished block/engine against moisture contamination. For everything else, particularly cleaning, using a soft lint free cloth is the go. The cloth will not scratch, or leave micro debris behind if you're careful and the absorbent nature of the cloth means it tends to catch and hold contaminants so you can safely remove them without leaving any behind in the engine. Oil can be used for lubricating bearing shells if the engine will be back together and started in a couple of hours. Any longer than this and the oil will have almost completely drained away leaving you with a dry bearing. Use engine assembly lube, then if you don't get it back together it's not critical as it won't drain off the bearing and will happily sit there till you have time to finish the job. Engine assembly lube is cheap and a tube lasts ages if you aren't rebuilding for a living. Stripping the engine back down because you scored the bearings on startup and can't get oil pressure up, or even worse a shell picked up and wedged itself piggyback on another one, seizing a brand new (sort of ) motor. Yes I've seen both these things happen, especially when crank journals are badly worn from high mileage. Potentially even worse (and more expensive) is to strip the motor because of poor performance / lifespan, and 'rebuild' it with all the same mistakes. While we're at it, on the use of hones, while I don't use ball hones (because I believe that only flat stones will give a flat finish to the cylinder walls), a lot of people obviously get reasonable results with them, IF THEY'RE USED RIGHT. buzzing a hone up and down a cylinder wall does not 'hone' a cylinder, it just roughens it, and using a ball hone it won't even flatten it or take high spots off if there are any. The idea of honing is to leave behind an approximation of the original factory 'cross hatch ' marks in the walls. I do say 'in' the walls because the marks should be deep enough to be clearly visible which just light honing won't do. The other reason I don't use ball hones is because you can't create any pressure against the wall. With a flat stone hone, I always screw the tension to as much as I can, to allow the stones to bite into the walls and produce cross hatching in the smallest number of revolutions. This means the hones cut as required, but take the least possible depth from the cylinder walls, with obvious benefits. The ideal cross hatch angle is about 60 degrees, which means moving the hone full depth in and out about 20 times a minute if the drill is only rotating at about 60 rpm. The hone should move the full depth of the bore each stroke, and to get that right usually you find you come out each end of the bore about half an inch to an inch each stroke. This will give you a nice 60 degree cross hatch, if it doesn't adjust your rotation to plunge speed till it does. Incidentally that's another good reason to only use flat stone hones, as the ball hones will flail madly if they have even one wire and ball strand exit the bore at either end, and you will have to stop the drill to get it back in the bore and start over. With either hone, obviously this technique makes hitting the crank at some stage pretty likely, but if you think you can short stroke the hone to get away with it, well you will have to move in and out faster to create the cross hatch, plus you will increase the ovalling in the centre of the bore which doesn't just increase your engine wear, but it makes it much more likely that your rings will break fairly early in the piece (rings are not meant to flex in and out each time they travel up and down a bore, so a parallel bore is best for engine longevity). To get back to the reason the 60 degree cross hatch is critical, the whole purpose of the cross hatching is to trap oil on the cylinder walls. The oil scraper rings take the excess off, that the second ring would not cope with, but the bore remains 'wet' , and in doing so it provides a lubrication film for the piston to bear on as it goes up and down, and in doing so it reduces wear in the bore dramatically. When a bore is 'buzz' honed, and there are no clear hone marks, or the angle is so small it cannot hold more than a small amount of oil, the piston bears mainly on the cylinder wall and cylinder wear can be very rapid (sometimes only 10,000 miles to totally worn beyond serviceability). I have stripped engines at 350,000 miles to find the factory hone marks still quite fresh, and the bore still measured within a few thou of the original bore size. The other factor in this is keeping ALL dirt out of your motor, so good quality air and oil filters, good oil and frequent changing of each. You can see why stray contaminants (dirt) in an engine during rebuilding is such a no-no.
Should I start on why it's a bad idea to use the numbers on the ends to identify rod cap direction of fitment? Probably not, but the short version is that the number is there to identify which rod the cap belongs to, as mixing up caps and rods is a no-no due to the way they are machined. While the number written (and not stamped for an important reason), on the rod cap usually coincides with the direction it should face, it does not always. The cap may have been stamped by a rebuilder at some stage while apart, and it wasn't done on matching sides with the rod, or it could be a cap from a different rod set that has been professionally resized by a machine shop and the two sets had numbers on opposite sides. There are a number of possibilities that mean that the numbers aren't 'always' on the same side though they usually are. You only need to ever get this cap direction wrong 'once', and at some point your motor will either seize, throw a rod or throw a leg out of bed (rod goes out through the side of the block 'windowing' it), and almost certainly the crank will be junk afterwards as well. If it sounds like it's worth learning this small but important part of rebuilding do yourself a favour and go and find a professional source of information. I'm pretty sure that Jegs would probably have a video on this, or as part of another rebuilding vid, I'd be very surprised if someone like Clevite, or Federal didn't have something on it, and if you really want to learn it, then I'm sure there are many institutes of tertiary learning who offer short courses on this sort of thing with qualified instructors doing the teaching.
NTFL, I have really tried to not flame you personally, because I don't think that's called for. If you don't know, well you just don't know, and I'd suggest that you did some courses too and got the benefit back in longer engine life and better performance. If you're going to try to tell me you're a fully qualified mechanic, then damn you got short changed, I'd go ask for your money back.
One other thing, if you think you're above all this and can just keep on putting out content like this on the web. What happens when someone follows your directions and then has an engine blow up after 500 or a thousand miles despite spending big on performance parts, and they shake their head and say "but I did everything exactly the way NTFL said to do it. Then they decide to come and find you to get their money back, or at least some satisfaction? Unfortunately for you , you live in just the right country for that to become a real possibility. Thankfully I don't live there. And if you think the web is anonymous still and no-one can find you, dream on.
camionjeep isn't 60 degrees a bit steep? everywhere i've researched says closer to 45 is optimal.
I didn't read it. Its too long
Lol who has time to write this much of their opinions
what size honning brush is that?
what size grid do u use for the honing tool for the cylinders
#280 grit stones will seat faster than one finished with #220 stones but ring manufacturers recommend #220.
I thought the bolts went through the rod cap not the other way around. Am I missing something?
+kyubipalex Arp's do. Most stock rods have the studs built into the rod, making a stud and nut combo.
Nthefastlane thank you for the clarification.
nic
What happens if you don't put the piston ring gaps in the right place?
Jeremy Mullins Lower cylinder compression,blow by and even possible to burn some oil.
NO, NO, NO !!! You are turning wrong way, should always turn backwards!!! And you only, only cut one end of the ring, NOT both!!! Don't teach wrong, if you don't know, how!!! OK ???
exactly! do it this way
why only one end ? what is problem with both?
You want to have one perfect end, straight,.., so just cut one end!!!
K
So do you gap both compression rings or just upper ring? .0014 to .0016 right.
didnt you clock the oil rings wrong? at first you corrected yourself...
My same question he said they should be across from b side n b side was on intake and u just turned it to what u originally said after correcting urself so did I just clock mine incorrectly ?
The very last position that I clock the oil control ring is to correct one, I stated that it was wrong and I moved it across from the compression ring.
But diagram showed as u explained to move it parallel to compression b which I though was intake side last spot u put the 2 oil rails where on exhaust side no?
@@Nthefastlane but the book said the 2 oil rails gaps should be on intake side just wana clarify there about 15 to 30 degrees from each other on left side of exhaust of piston front facing the engine correct?
No, if you look at the little arrow on the piston to the right, that faces the cam gears (aka) "front of engine". I took the oil control rings and move them up towards the intake side with the arrow facing towards the cams. Another way to know if it's the intake side or the exhaust side, look at the piston, at the top it shows (IN), this stands for intake. Hope this helps, if anyone needs to get ahold of me faster please post questions on my website forum, answer questions there. www.nthefastlane.com/forum
Now that s you put in a piston
Marked face means the DOT is faced up , not the letter. You installed yours upside down.
No, that is not always correct. Yes some piston rings come with a DOT. But other piston rings come with laser etched letters and numbers and that is what is referenced as the up position.
The piston rings with the laser etched numbers and letters do not have dots. The piston rings installed in this video were installed correctly.
cutting the ring the wrong direction, should never cut leaving a bur outwards i dont car if you are sanding its wrong, c ya
Oh wait! Dont tell me, you are BUILDING a MOTOR Correct?
Munees waran
G
Geez pull the engine out of the car so you don't leave the block full of honing grit. The grit will just grind your engine up.
crosstimbers2 just spray it down with break cleaner.... the pan is off so none of the grit stays in the engine
@@rickkroening5282 Not true. The grit is microscopic and remains in the surface texture of the cylinder bores. With the crank shaft in the engine you just wash the grit down all over the crankshaft. I think I done a lot more engines than you.
crosstimbers2 crosstimbers2 if you spray the crank journals down and make sure everything’s clean it’ll be fine. Minimal grit will be left. It won’t just grind it up like you say. I’m in the process of doing this exact thing. I’ll post a link for when I’m done.
@@rickkroening5282 I don't care what you think or what you are doing. I rebuilt engines starting about 50 years ago. Only a moron leaves one full of grit. By paying attention to details I have had my rebuilt engines last longer than factory engines. Pull the pan off of a new crate engine and you will find the factory does not even bother to remove all the pattern sand from the block casting process.
😮
why are you doing this in the car just take motor out
So much wrong in this video....