Old classics vs modern alternative cartridges
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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For extreme long distance I would pick the 408 Cheytac. Just my opinion
i wonder if vortex is going to warranty thier clock xD
Here you go working for Hornaday and bad mouth old reliable proven cartridge to sell for Hornaday.
I knew something was coming hearing said some nonsense.
Don't need to see anymore I am out of here
@@lurebenson7722 BYE BYE
@@abcertweld Exactly as we found with 3 of our shooters.
Respectfully, Seth
It amazing that when all the cartridges are mentioned they always go up against the old 30-06.
Great caliber. Very accurate as well.
That is The Benchmark Caliber !
That 30-06 is The Benchmark Caliber !
I’ve never been a 30-06 fan but I love the 300win. Just personal preference, if I’m going above 308 give me the 300win or 7mm rem.
Great video Pete, but the one thing that isn't talked about is that the modern cartridges are far more expensive than their older counter parts and harder to come by. I have 2 7mm Rem Mags and rounds are far easily found and much cheaper than its 7PRC counter part. Lets not talk about the Hornady debacle with the powder used, that they cant even meet their own advertise speeds on the box. Unless your a pro competition shooter, the older cartridges are just fine and more than adequate for the hunter shooting 500 m/y and in. Just my 2 cents. :-)
Exactly, these "ancient" cartridges get the job more than done, only reason those new ones really exist is because they need to make money. Not even to mention if you handload your 7mm Rem Mag you can easily outperform the 7PRC. They keep trying to reinvent the wheel.
@@duckgrape2455 He literally says this list doesn't apply to reloaders because of your exact reason. For people not wanting to get into reloading, the newer rounds are just better if you're shooting factory. Reloading isn't for everyone and some people still want to get the "best of the best". So yes, that market is aimed at those people.
And that's the whole point of being a company, is to make a profit. If making new cartridges means more profit, of course they're going to do that! And they're not trying to reinvent the wheel, they're just called optimizing. Speaking of wheels, go look at the tires from 1980 vs 2024. They're still tires, but they're BETTER. You'd be an idiot to buy the 1980 designs for 2024, and guess what, they're more expensive because that's how a free market works.
Kind of the same can be said for cartridges. Why buy older rounds when new rounds are better in every way? The only reason would be cost savings, in which case, sure don't buy the cartridges and stick with the cheaper one. Because you are right, they do still get the job done, just not AS good of a job.
500 yards? That's point blank range. We are talking about long range here. I "zero" my .338LM at 500 yards. Long range doesn't even start until after 1,000 yards.
@@samueldesousa3134 also 7mm PRC is just a simple copycat with a little Flitter here and there from the 2004 introduced but commercial not succesfull 7mm Blaser Magnum
@@lenzadlbergerguess your from Europe? I live in Switzerland and would love to get a 7mm wsm but there is nothing available here 🙄 guess the 7wsm would be also way more sexy than the hyped 7prc.
Friend and I took 13 Springbuck and 3 Kudu last weekend using a 30-06 and a 6.5 Swede
Couple freezers full of meat and 250+ years of legacy - whats not to love
IQ deficiency detected.
its not a flex to say you use something less efficient and neither of those cartridges are anywhere near that old. you can shoot a .45-70 out to 600 with iron sights, why are you such a bad hunter you need bottleneck cases. you probably used jacketed bullets too. shouldn't even be in the field. see how stupid that sounds. its like saying you drove across the country in a rusty ford taurus and bragging its not a newer car. ok.
Where u in Africa?
@@joshuarosenwald6490 where am I in Africa now? where do I live in Africa? or, have I been to Africa, but currently am not there? what are you asking me.
@@hotramen5952 lol I wasn't asking you anything! I was asking original commenter...im not even sure what you said?...read what u said you should clean that word salad up...maybe don't put so much dressing on lol!
308 for life.
This video should be titled: "Does your barrel last too long? Rather buy one these barrel burners"
Hahahaha
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
not only that, i can wander into a hardware store and buy 308 or 3006. ask them for 300 prc and they will think im giving them a part number for lawnmower spark plugs.
for normal people and practical shooters, performance is not the only factor.
😂😂😂🤦🏻
@@ghostlight69420Haha yeah. Is that for the Husqvarna weed eater?
I’ll take your word for it but some of those “old school” loads are much more plentiful and cheaper to source. For example 308 and 5.56 are very common in the US and is manufactured in large amounts for the military.
I’m all for people being free to speak their opinions. I’m not one of these ultra sensitive folks who gets triggered by someone disagreeing. Personally I love the old cartridges, but it is interesting to hear things like this.
Yeah but after a while it gets it gets tiring it's like listening to Democrats and how good the economy is doing you just get tired of it
I'll say it a 1000 times over..... No matter what new cartridge comes on the scene..... 30-06 is the benchmark to which everything is measured..... Sure the old '06 doesn't do everything the best, but it does "just enough" the best, and that's what the average shooter wants from a factory rifle with factory ammunition.
I've never heard a dead buck's spirit say "Jeez pal, I'm telling you that new High BC bullet really did a number on me" or "That faster twist rate sure killed me dead in a hurry"..... Nope..... All he would say is "The last thing I heard was bang, and now I'm here"
With modern components in modern rifles, the old '06 can compare just as good as it's counterparts. You'll still hit your target same spot as with some new Air Jordan endorsed PRC model. Oh..... shhhh.... Spoiler alert.... PRC = People's Republic of China = COMMIE!!..... 🤫🤫🤫🤣🤣🤣
PRC = precision rifle cartridge
@@KristinaBaker-ql5hi respectfully, that was sarcasm, ma'am. I am very much aware what PRC stands for, but thanks for pointing that out👍
🚨🚨 Trigger Alert! 🚨🚨 🤣
That aside, I don't need anything new...although the 'new' line Nosler cartridges are really nice, IMO...but yes, older cartridges still work fine.
I'm not a Creedmoor fanboy...I....just ....can't...sorry. No.
😅
Still my go to for hunting anything smaller than elk for food, but I step up to 338win mag elk and tougher.
Huh, didn't realize I was clicking on a Hornady commercial
🤣
What would you recommend? Pretty sure hornady has made the best cartridges for factory rifles for normal shooters.
any of the previous cartridges are perfect. I would recommend it over anything he recommends. largely due to availability and it still gets the job done. Also, some of it is damn cheaper@davidandre886
375 EnABLER. Seriously though, Hornady has designed excellent cartridges here and they have good market support. I just thought it was funny because the information presented could have been said in a 30 sec short.
In his defense Hornady has been the only one making new calipers to talk about
Can you point out on the doll exactly where the 30-06 hurt you
🤣
Dirty six...... nothing better. Or?
The 30-06 cartridge was designed for Black Powder and not modern propellants that burn way faster. And why most modern cartridges are designed with a sharper shoulder angle to increase efficiency.
@@johnmartin5147 pretty hard to be designed for modern powders in 1906…
And don’t sit down in a hurry with a 30-06 in your back pocket next time
The 30-06 was not designed for black powder. Smokeless powder had already been around for ~20 years when the 30-03 first came on the scene.
MR-21 was the original powder used in testing and production, a smokeless, not black, powder. In ~1930, they switched to another smokeless, IMR-1185
Even the 30-40 Krag was developed for smokeless powder, and it predates the 30-06 by about a decade. Other cartridges predating 30-06 that used smokeless - 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser and 7x57 Mauser.
Pieter visits America:
Hornady- Hey Petey you want a lil spendin cash
Pieter- Yes daddy 🤣🤣🤣
@@PetterBRagreed, and it’s even farther behind the 6.5x55.
@@PetterBR again I agree
@@PetterBR Minor disagreement. A lot of 260s won't chamber (or the mags are too small) the 155 gr Lapua Mega/156 gr Norma Oryx/160 gr Woodleigh Weldcore. For 140 gr bullets, yeah, 260 Rem is hard to beat. I prefer my 6.5x55 Tikka to either 260 or 6.5CM, tho.
@@PetterBRprobably dont find much 260 factory ammo or factory chamber guns for that matter lol but its a great case, ideal if you build a custom gun and handload
@@PetterBR availability does matter in this opinion. 260 is great but doesnt have near the rifle options or ammo options. I can see the creed having a major advantage there. Like i said you have to build a custom gun and handload to really benefit from a 260…now the 7 rem mag or 300 win mag vs the PRC equivalents…that is a opinion based discussion since both are available in guns and ammo
my 30-06 pushes a 215 berger at 2660fps, matches 6.5 creedmoore drop and drift with a huge amount more energy... if ur a handloader, the 30-06 is still incredible.
And 30-06 ammo is available everywhere. Best all-round hunting cartridge. Pieter seems to focus on long distance shooting, which is what he does.
@@Adventures4Lou very true, but the 30-06 is very very capable as a long range cartridge. If a 6.5 creedmoor can do it, the 30-06 with the right load is actually better, I think telling people not to buy a 30-06 is silly.
It may be similar drop and drift but it does it with quite a bit more recoil. For a match shooter that is a deal breaker.
@@440capnhook mine weighs about 10.5lbs, recoil is very manageable, if imagine with a muzzle brake it would be very comparable to a 6.5 creed or maybe even a 243.
I've got 212eldx that I plan to work a load for, and theoretically it matches external ballistics of the creedmoor with 143eldx. But yeah, outside of competition, I have zero interest in new cartridges. 6gt is my competition gun
How to start a fight,
Step 1: say 30-06 springfield sucks!
Step 2 :Sit back and relax!
Lol
Mr. Paul Mauser, and John Browning had it figured out a long time ago.
Me watching the video: Hmm, yes, makes sense, plan for the future.
My safe (full of Federal Value Pack .22lr and surplus, corrosive 7.62x39):
No you won't.
While I don't shoot long range anymore, and being 49. I still hunt deer and the occasional elk with model 70 in 30-06 that my grandfather gave me when I was 14. I guess that I'm to old to change.
I love watching young salesmen reinvent the wheel.
Old or new, get what works best for you. New and improved isn't always better. Ill take Old and reliable any day.
Its so funny watching a guy from South Africa wearing a sweater that has my childhood area code on it.
Somewhere in Ohio?
@@ryanleech789 yes. Northwest Ohio. I think the company Area 419 is in a small town called Delta. Not far from where I grew up.
419 for life.
You're funny, 😂keep smiling ... you sound like a car😅 salesman from the British Isles, trying to sell a Porsche, to a person needing a, "tool" to get to work . Like a V.W. sedan. It' ll get you there. Technology is great, but skill wins over, every time.
Battle tested & proven products work.
If you "have to" hit a target @ 2000 yards + ... I get on a sat. phone and call in what's needed.
Other wise, we are talking about toys.
You left out so much, to point out your favor paper guns.
Try encouraging people to go to local or matches within 2-3 states and watch, (& learn), while con'd. to work on fundamental & basics with a 1/2"-1", hundred yard .22 rim fire bolt action rifle, (while learning about trajectory, ballistics and Wind Drift).
Hanging/having one @ home, but to expensive to shoot every month, will not make them a better shooter.
.22 rim fire, 7.62X51 & 300 win. take care of everything I can see in my spotting scope.
And in push come to shove, in the USA, this ammo can be easily found and purchased.
Enjoy your toys, ...
I agree and disagree. Newer bullets have come a long way in terms of terminal ballistics. However, very few cartridges have taken as much or more large game in North America than 30-06 (most of those being classics as well).
The "classics" are the classics for a reason Pete.
Surprise not to see 280 Ackley Improved. Nosler brought it to Saami in 07” and it got approved. Great 7mm option less recoil then the 30-06, same performance as 7rem mag and a wider variety of bullets then the 270win. But I guess from a factory stand point ammo choice may not be available for some but at lest where I’m at there’s 10 different factory loads available to me. But if you a reloader then it’s even better.
Id have to agree that the 280 AI is probably the best balanced 7mm
It's not a Hornady cartridge... that's why
@@ReloadingWeatherby sadly correct
The original 280 Rem is a tragically overlooked cartridge.
@@timothythompson6549 agree 280 rem is so overlooked and it sucks Remington failed to market it properly. There’s still tons of factory loads I’ve seen on the shelves and online lately. I still have a ton of 280 brass and un-open boxes of 280 rem that I have setting over the years.
Both the 6.5x55 or a 260rem will out perform a 6.5CM.
The 260 Remington is an awesome cartridge. It is easy to tune and can win matches!
Nonsense.
30-06 with 165-180 gr.
You're welcome.
Check out the new 190 class monos.
Increasing bullet weight in the same cartridge does not give more energy.
@@rishirajsaikia1323Yes, it does- if that heavier bullet has a higher BC and the proper powders are used to keep velocity up.
Rubbish.
30-06 with 110 Vmax.
...for the feels...and head removal.
@@anthonykgarland
Hah!
You know, there's always someone that take the conversation waaay tooo far.
Heh heh heh, we need beers, Australia!
I have an old Browning 30-06 that might not be a match rifle, but since I rarely have to shoot farther than 200 yards, stuffed with my handloads it has never failed to put game in the freezer. Sure there are "new modern" cartridges that exceed the '06's performance, but for an older person that already has an old rifle in a older caliber, it's enough for me. I also shoot a 223 AI, a 22-250 AI, a 22-284, 6-284, and a few other wildcats. But I find myself reaching tor the old trusty '06 for most of my hunting.
😍😍
You can allways shop Sako TRG 22. For example, standard 308 win rifle has magazine for ammo 71.12 mm, Sako has 74.5mm magazine. Chamber also holds more pressure than standard saami. In this moment my 308 win at 178 bullets have 10.2 mils drop at 1050m, my 6.5 creed with 140 bullets at this same distance have 10.5 mils drop. Sou there is 308 and 308 :)
And a 243 still matches everything at 400 yards in your lineup
Nice job
@@Swampytheroot don’t forget 6mm Remington too
Piet, " the 30-06 sucks" | " the 308 sucks"
Henry, "bru you talking about me?"
Piet, "the 6.5x55 is a fossilised dinosaur that nobody should use."
Henry, "Friendship ended."
🤣😂🤣😂
I will take the 308 over the 6.5 😊 you started out the video talking about barrel life Sri.
In saying that i would take the 7mm 08, would never buy a 6.5 cm.
You guys are doing it wrong. Buy em all. I've got the 308, 6.5 cm and the 6.5 PRC. I honestly don't know if I could just pick one because they are all great in their own right. The PRC is kinda difficult to find ammo for and very expensive compared to the others but a great performer. The creedmoor just smashes deer and is very pleasant to shoot. The 308 doesn't try to destroy itself, ammo price/availability is great and it's overall performance is sufficient for most people.
Piet doesn't give a £u*k about barrel life.
@@moonray1276 he can afford not to
I would for use on elk or similar size game at reasonable ranges. Having the 180 grain option is definitely worth it.
Oh thank goodness, my beloved .270 Winchester wasn't on the list! 🤣
That's because he would have had to say the 6.8 western and hornady aren't paying him to say that
@@darren5956 Don't worry about it. It's one of the best kept secrets. And I know it's one flat shooter
it should be, and I literally came to comments to tell him he screwed up not mentioning 270 Win as it's the most effected by what he's talking about. 1-10 twist barrels in .270 is a tragedy. Optimal bullet design would be around the 156gr weight and nobody makes a barrel that would stabilize that in 270 Win. 6.8 Western is going to fail because of lack of available ammo and very few mid range cost rifles, but it should explode off the shelves based on the ballistics.
Yeah, I was waiting for it too.
He probably hates it but forgot it existed.
@darren5956 did you see your comment and my reply made it into his latest video haha
The 22, 6mm, 6.5mm were all standard size cartridges. Then you stepped up to magnum for 7mm and above. Furthermore, the moral of the video was "If Hornady designed it, shoot it."
If you need an intermediate recommendation, a 6.8 Western fits short action length with magnum bolt face (like 6.5 PRC). You get energies of heavy 30-06 with better ballistics. If it wasn't clear from the recommendations in the video, the classic long action case doesn't really fit the cartridge design trend because of its long aspect ratio. If you really need a standard bolt face long action cartridge, the closest one to the modern design sensibilities would be a 280 AI or 284 win, but i'm not sure if there are factory rifle offerings with the right twist (or even factory rifles whatsoever)
I agree in nearly every aspect of this video... but we have to talk about availability. It is quite impossible for me to aquire most of these new calibers as factory ammo. I'm not reloading myself, so i'm stuck with stuff from the shelf. Gun stores are not always the fastest updating their inventory up to new standards, so i have to depend mostly on "old" and common calibers.
So even as a hand loader why would I want to set aside loads/rifles I have spent hours upon hours developing that have killed game for years reliably to start all over with new reloading components that are hard to find and start that process all over again because somebody came out with a new whiz-bang cartridge. Im sure that many of these new cartridges do some things better than my old ones but dead is dead and I’m not starting over when I have something that works just fine.
Tikka make a 6.5x55. This round was probably the most ahead of its time ever. It used heavy bullets 140gr / 160gr. In a modern rifle like the Tikka, its pretty much the same thing as the 6.5cm.
Pretty much the same except that, in a modern rifle like your Tika or my CZ, the significantly larger case capacity of the 6.5x55 allows it to be hand loaded to performance levels that the creedmore can't hope to match without dangerously over pressure loadings. The creedmore is on my list to pick up someday but my two 6.5x55s make that purchase very much not a pressing one.
@@jrunestad4508The only benefit of the Creedmore is that it is a short action cartridge, but the Tikka is only made in a long action so there is no benefit. If you are buying a Tikka the Swede is the better choice.
And Mauser/Sauer make multiple models of rifles for the old Swedish round, it is still a popular cartridge. I have a M18 on order.
I'll stick with the older rounds 30/06 308 7mm remington mag 270 win or Weatherby.
5:52 "22 Creedmoor very fast vomiting Cartridge" you heared it here first! 🤣
😂 Now I can't un-hear it!
“The 30-06 is never a bad choice!” Craig Boddington
I'm keeping my old school stuff because they are tried and true, but last but not least, cheaper and readily available
Video never suggested selling your old stuff, its clearly for new shooters as stated multiple times 😅
I am sorry, this video is a Hornady promotion video. The 6.5x55 se in a European action from 1960 and up will do everything and more than 6.5 CR. Thank you for not trashing the .338 wm. Case and cartridge design decades ahead of its time.
True about the swede, but good luck finding guns and ammo, at least in the US. I’ll take the 6.5 creedmoor any day and all day long and twice on Sunday. Other than just being different, (which is a fine reason), there’s no reason here to buy a Swede.
Yes agreed with the ammo!!! Handloading for realized potential or very expensive European imprt ammo.
@@phild9813 You don't need a man bun to shoot a 6.5 swede.
Well you don't need a long action rifle to shoot 6.5 Swede.
I have rifles chambered in both and my Swede is nice but with factory ammo it really doesn't compare.
Any way, I have built medium/long action rifles, they are 284 Winchester and 338 RUM.
6.5 Swede wasn't even a consideration. 284 is just more of everything, more bullet, more ballistic coefficient, probably more FPS, Lapua brass, lots of 1,000 yard benchrest championships, etc.
338 RUM was just an exercise in how much bullet I could fit in a CIP length long action and a beginner ELR rifle that didn't need an extra large action for 338 Lapua or bigger.
With a short action I like 6.5 Creedmoor. If I was going for 6mm it would be 6 GT. The 6 GT is an evolution of 6 BR just stretched out to feed better from standard AICS short action magazines.
If I had the money for a top of the line ELR rig, I would probably choose it by which bullet I want to shoot, then figure out who makes the best chamber for that bullet, who makes the best barrel rifling for that bullet, then choose a chambering that has good lathe turned brass available that will put it in the velocity it needs. I might even get a super heavy test barrel to play around with barrel length and tuners to find nodes so I could have a better guess at what will work for my "competition" barrel.
You have no idea what you're talking about good Lord get off the internet 🥱
Sounds like you have childhood trauma and just hate 30-06 buddy
first two rifles were 6.5 Creedmoor???? you must be younger than I thought
My 6,5x55 shoots amazing groups. My 338lm is a work in progress with significantly more cost in components
None of the modern stuff is any good when a lot of the shooters using them cant maintain 1 moa at the distance those cartridges become more effective than the conventional counterparts
Re: recommending the purchase of a rifle chambered for a "vintage" cartridge, it depends on what you intend to do with it. If you want to target shoot and are within a relatively short drive of your loading bench, it's a different situation compared to a rifle that you might take with you on a multi-day hunting trek. It's a question of ammo availability; nearly any place that sells ammunition will inevitably have a box or two of many of the older cartridges... .308 Win, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, etc..., but isn't as likely to have the latest and greatest gee-whiz ballistic flavor of the month.
Ideally, you'd never forget your ammo at home, or never drop it in a puddle/river, or never lose it... but stuff happens; and as we see with electric cars, when things don't go according to plan and you are outside of your own "area", there's something to be said for common availability of that which you need in order to keep going.
Biggest risk in traveling to a hunt is the airline losing the ammo. Definitely with you - I'm headed to Limpopo in a couple weeks, bringing my 9.3x62 and my 6.5x55. If the carrier loses my ammo, every gun store in Jo'burg will have ammo for both of those rifles.
Why don’t folks talk about 6.5 284 Norma. Mine will take the nuts off a gnat at 1000.
Because they think the 6.5 PRC is all that has ever been
We build them all the time - broke, set, held, more records than all the new junk combined.
Do not put the 30-06 down , you can do more with that round then one thinks . As a handloader you can have it shoot like a 22lr to full with a 220 gr. Also do not put the 22-250. 308 have more uses then any other besides for what I stated the ammo is not going to be hard to find and get.
Perfect video Piet. Just enough data for informed decision making, but not too much to overload the brain. 🤘😎
Very good advertising for the big red machine, Hornady. Will agree these cartridges you highlighted are great for non handloaders and beginners.
7x57 is a very old design. And a great cartridge!!
Nice 16 minute Hornady add.
Here is the hint… they are doing it right…
Heres a hint i didnt ask you @@ewetho
all the new cartridges are great ballistically but the cost per round for factory ammo is typically higher.
The 30-06 is a great 30 caliber cartridge for 165/180 gr bullets without going magnum or over bore. I cut my teeth shooting military 30-06 1903 SPFD and 8mm Mauser 98 military rifles with steel but plates. I might have been 11 or 12, and yes they did recoil some but not bad enough to turn me off. I have shot competition and hunted with 6.5C & 270WIN. Also hunted with 7-08, 280REM, 270WIN and 30-06. Now days I hunt deer in the western US and use a 270. With a well built custom 270WIN. I get outstanding accuracy and velocity using factory Hornady 140 SST Superformance ammo. I will never take a shot past 500m and the 140SST in this ammo has a mv of better than 3100fps, enough umph to anchor deer. When hand loading my 30-06 in a MOD70 Classic Winchester I was able to get 180 grain bullets to a mv range of 28**fps without getting to max charge. To upgrade to the modern well thought out 6.5/7mm/300 PRC means a lot more powder burned and harder components to find and pricier factory ammo just to get speeds that are nice but not necessary. My dream cartridge would be a 7mm Mauser cartridge giver the "Creedoor" design elements. Elements like chamber designed specifically for 160gr bullets, sharper shoulder and less taper in the side wall, kinda a 280REM efficiently redesigned. BTW enjoy your videos and agree about the 22 & 6mm Creed's.
This changes if you reload ammunition.
.308 can use almost any rifle powder on the market, the Creedmoor cartridge family requires much slower burning propellants, which can be hard to find.
Same for the 303 Brit especially for cast bullet loads.
It's down right unamerican to not own at least one 30-06.
Yes, the M1 Garand during WW2 was partly responsible for this. I'm wondering if Piet knows what a Garand is.
No need to be so hard on the old dirty-06.
300 WM in Ruger PR it has faster twist rate and longer COAL. The COAL in RPR and twist rate is the same for 300 wm/PRC. So in that rifle the 300 prc gets just an inch more V0, but it has a marginal shorter barrel life. So its cheaper to get 300wm than 300 prc in that rifle, and gets the same results, the prc can theoretically shoot longer but...
You lost me when you said your first two rifles were 6.5 creed.
Surely prices and availability for ammunition should be a consideration, especially for new shooters coming into the sport. Performance aside, the price and availability for the PRC and Creedmore ranges will take a long time to rival the other cartridges mentioned, and that is assuming they will indeed be the standard of the future, which is a big 'if'.
Old Pete, allready influenced by marketing gimmicks
Marketing gimmicks like high bc bullets and developed with optimal designs that are objectively superior to designs from when houses were cheap
@@TheGunNerd some truth there, but very few hunters can "outshoot" the gun they are shooting, i have not had one single whitetail or blackbear complain that the 30-06 i took them with wasnt efficient enough. been using the same 30-06 for hunting since i got it new in 1988. ammo is EVERYWHERE and cheap for the most part. have been shooting "big" 200+G bullets out of it no problems and it just plain works, why would i ever replace it ? so i can brag that the bullet is a 100fps faster...so i can spend more money on ammo if i can find it....nope..ah must be so that i can have the latest greatest flashy new gun... guns are not cell phones, shouldnt have to replace then every 2 years. my 30-06 is now 36 years old and shoots like day 1, gets about 20 shots a year, should last a easy 50 more years and be killing things just as dead then as it does now. so why would i ever change or recommend anybody not use a .243, 7MM rem mag, 30-06 or .308 or .270? they all work great for hunting.
@brian770 most more modern rounds are hitting harder at farther distances, and if you can shoot good at way over there, why use an underpowered round? 6 creedmoor provides all the good things about 243 except availability (but it's catching up, just slowly) and that can be remedied with buying ammo online. Same with 7 prc. If you're shooting things far enough away to need a magnum, you're going to benefit from 7 prc. I will say tho old cartridges aren't bad, but why use an old round when a more modern one has inherent benefits? 30-06 is great no doubt. For deer and bear inside of 300 yards it's wasted performance. While I can't see myself replacing my ar10 in 308 any time soon (30 cal rocks up close), 6.5 creed has less recoil, availability is catching up to the point it makes almost just as much sense to go with it for availability, and it hits significantly harder at extended ranges. 270 has performance similar to 6.5 prc, which has the same benefits over the older counterpart. Don't switch if you already have an older cartridge, but if you're in the market for a new rifle, why go with 300 win mag when you could go 300 prc?
My old 7x57s didn't even get honorable mention in the 7mm category. 😭 All kidding aside, nice summary.
This episode is brought to you by Hornady 😂
I'm surprised there's not a 338 category.
In Australia for Sambar Deer we have a legal minimum bullet diameter of .270 (130gr), that keeps the old cartridges powering along and rules out the 6.5CM. Hopefully the rules get up with the times soon.
I am gonna buy a 6,5x55 SE now
🤣🤣🤣
@IMPACTSHOOTING the sweed comes with a 8 or 8.5 twist rate and loads up nicely to just under 6.5 PRC speeds . Maybe not quite the neck angle as the prc . But leaves the needs more for dead .
I mean it is extremly good, i have a old swedish mauser and it it extremly accurate, i love it.
The .300PRC has better barrel life than a .30-06?
I love my m96
6.5cm is great but it just doesn’t hit like .308. Feel like it’s very bullet specific for its distance.
5:22. 22-250 is my all-time favorite cartridge, but even with a built rifle with a quick (1-7, 1-6.5) twist, getting quality brass for it is incredibly difficult. Brands like Lapua/Peterson don't produce 22-250 brass anymore, so now you're back to fire-forming your own brass if you want something beyond average brass.
Modern design lacks velocity so if I can find a modern fast twist magnum action length cartridge with some 3,200 fps potential I'm in.
I have a .308win and a 6.5CM and I only realy use it to hunt under 300 meters. Both do 2760fps but the one is 130gr and the other 150gr. Within that range I prefer to use the 308 on bigger animals, because the tragectory of both are basically the same, but at that distance the .308 just has more energy on target. If i hunted over 400-450 meters the lighter 6.5 CM has more energy on target, but ja, I don’t shoot that far.
Well, there was that one blesbok at 450meters, and the 130gr 6.5 performed like a dream.
Yeah if your talking hunting 6.5 cred, but you cannot reasonably argue 6.5 is better for a dmr as 308 also shoots 7.62 nato
Winchester made the best 7mm in 1963. Efficiency, accuracy, plenty of power and light recoil. Sadly they didn't market the 284 Winchester and didn't offer it in their best rifles.
F-class has brought some life back to it though
Great video and information. Thank you with that said there’s a complete other side of the equation to think about let me explain.
I work with several professional hunters on a day-to-day basis are required to dispatch animals in neighborhoods, or surrounding areas that are public health and safety threats, where long range is not necessary. High velocity might be required, yes accuracy, but long range is not emphasized. The best cartridges to accomplish this job are things like the old standby .223 Remington with a 40 grain Vmax or a .204 Ruger with either a 24 grain NTX or 32 grain V-max or Sierra BlitzKing, minimizing penetration and containing the energy into the target. Not all jobs require extreme long range nor the energy and efficiency of most of these new offerings ment for long range matches and PRS.
Not trying to act like a know it all, but many professionals prefer small caliber for many applications still, and they are still cheaper, and easier to find ammunition for.
Keep up the great information, there are many aspects and view points to consider when making a decision on a purchase of a new weapon. Kinda like buying an automobile, you can buy a Corvette a minivan or a four-wheel-drive truck, whichever one meets your immediate needs first is the one you purchase.
I love myself some 223Rem 😍
I will say it is odd to know there are tens of thousands of dollars worth of custom rifles and reloading equipment in that room and you're talking about "bought not built" and shooting factory ammunition. Also, when you use the term "caliber" correctly it makes me so happy. Thank you for your videos as always.
Target shooting and Hunting is a total different science, all talk was accuracy, but none on energy.
The fact that he didn’t address the 270 and 6.8 western ( the 6.5 and 7mm prc biggest competition and is the only non-Hornady cartridge) tells me all I need to know
I don't think I'll replace my 308 with anything. But I would replace the 6.5cm with the 260Rem.
6.5 PRC:
General Barrel Life: 1,500 to 2,000 rounds
7mm PRC:
General Barrel Life: 1,500 to 2,000 rounds
.300 PRC
General Barrel Life: 1,000 to 1,500 rounds
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The expected barrel life of the 7 PRC is near identical to the 7 Rem Mag (PRC has slightly lower poeder capacity, but slightly higher max pressure), the .300 PRC is only alightly lower expected barrel life over the .300 Win Mag.
Ultimately, bore diameter, powder charge, powder burn temperature and the peak pressure are what determines barrel life. For many of these cartridges, their old school counterparts should have very similar expected barrel life.
@@marcmoore4115No they don't; it is closer to 5k rounds.
@@BLKSMShooting if you take the 7 Rem Mag and 7 PRC, run both with the same bullet and powder, at the same velocity, the barrel life will be near identical. That's not an opinion, just how the science works. If you really want me to, I'll run all the cartridges through GRT and the barrel life estimator I have.
Also, to rem mag or win mag having 5k barrel life... maybe if you shoot it extremely slowly and barely ever put proper heat into it. If you shoot a PRC the same way - then it will also have an extremely long barrel life.
In the old days you had to guess the distance, in modern days you need to guess the wind drift, heavy for caliber bullets drift less in the wind, a 140 grain 6.5 bullet has about half the wind drift of a 165 grain 308 bullet. So, bushveld hunting I do with my 308, Freestate and Karoo I prefer the 6.5 creedmoor.
I Never let other people tell me what i am going to do.
I will agree that having a 6-year-old firing a 30-06 was.....unwise. My father had me wait until I was 14. Common sense, really. For most healthy adult males, 30-06 recoil is fully manageable, except perhaps in some of these trendy short-barrel hunting rifles that weigh barely 6 lbs.
Yes!❤❤❤ WTF do you put a 30-06 into a child's hands for?
@@BLKSMShooting : Legally a 14-year-old is still a child, but there's a huge difference with a 6-year-old. At that age, my parents wouldn't allow anything more lethal than a squirt gun, and no, I don't resent them for it.
@BLKSMShooting only thing i can think of is too traumatize the kid. My grandfather had me fire old 12 Guage double barrel at about 4 years old (I never touched a shotgun again until I was in my late 30's)😅
@@corytheriault2365 That's nuts!
@andrewhirsch6472 if it's crazy and works 😆 he did start me on rifles about same time but he started at more reasonable .22 🤣
For hitting steel at 1000 and beyond, I would agree with much of what you say. I’ve spent my share of time sitting at public ranges and feel comfortable in reminding you that well over 90% of normal shooters have no business shooting past 300. 99% have no business shooting past 500. I also didn’t hear much about added recoil for the heavier bullets.
For new shooters looking to hunt deer the .243/257 Roberts/6mm creed are fine, I would also recommend looking at the classic 270/7mm08 if they are comfortable with the recoil. The 7mm and .300 PRC’s are designed for big, heavy bullets which makes for heavy recoil with loud booms and more likely to scare off new shooters. With normal hunting bullets like the 140/150 gr 7mm or 165/180 gr in the .30’s there’s no real advantage to having a PRC over any of the classics. The 300Win or even a good 308/30-06 with a 165 gr bullet is every bit as effective as a 30PRC/30 Nosler at the ranges most hunters encounter. Same thing goes for the range. I’ve shot public ranges from Georgia to California and the vast majority of public ranges don’t go beyond 200 yards. So let’s start our new shooters with something like the 270. Recoil mild enough for most shooters, effective on deer sized game at any ethical range for the average hunter, tons of bullet choices at much better prices and availability. I’ve even heard rumors of people taking elk with a 270 if you can believe that. 😉
1 last thing on my long winded rant… a good friend of mine in his 50’s, been hunting since we were kids, read all the articles, bought into the 300PRC hype and bought one, even though he didn’t like the recoil of his ‘06 with 165 gr bullets. After the first half box of 212 gr eld-x bullets he decided to finish sighting it in another day. When he pulls the trigger you can watch him flinch and close his eyes a split second before shooting. With the help of a lead sled we got him shooting halfway decent at 200. I don’t think anyone could argue the fact that he would be better off shooting a 7mm08 or 300 Savage with little to no recoil, no flinch or closing the eyes.
Barrel burners vs. Barrel for life. Stick with barrel for life, 308 win.
It’s not that time ago ballistics was an unknown subject.
The fact is that barrel life was and is a major concern.
There’s a well documented relation between barrel life and bullet on barrel drag surface and speed, meaning generally longer and faster projectiles kill barrels life.
To a new shooter id suggest buy a mild recoil cartridge 308 max but 223 better, stick to lighter native bullet weights and learn foundamentals, dont initially bother to reload.
The platform will probably exceed your capability at 90% of the shooting ranges youll practice in.
Then study Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting from Brian Litz and practice more.
Then start thinking about custom/heavy loads and Extended long range shooting.
You notice her never mentioned the 7mm-08. Nothing out there that can replace it!
7mm08 is my favourite, but I think when he says 7mm in general is the goldilocks of calibres you can take that as a win. It’s just that 7prc is the newest. I think if you have any 7mm your on the board.
A number of the arguments don’t seem to apply to the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x55 Swedish comparison. The difference between case length and COL for the CM is 22mm. For the Swede it is 25mm. Both in 1:8 twist. Seems to me the Sweede can handle longer sleeker bullets. Also, it has a lower chamber pressure.
I felt personally attacked within the first minute of the video when you said not to get a 30-06 lmao! Great video, but I’ll stick to my trusty 30-06, it does everything I need it too
The price of modern cartridges removes any of the " more efficient " claims
The cost has nothing to do with performance in this example, by your definition we should still be hunting with rocks?
Nope. The performance advantages Pieter talks about are marginal and insignificant unless one is competing on the paper-punching circuit. For competition, yes, it pays to be cutting edge, because millimeters and even fractions thereof can make the difference between money and a wasted trip. For hunters and infantrymen, all those minor efficiencies won't make a darn bit of difference in bagging the animal or surviving combat. What hunter has ever thought, "I could do this shot with a 6.5mm Creedmoor, but a 6.5mm Swedish? Too risky." Ridiculous.
💯
And thats only if you buy off the shelf . I get close to 6.5 prc speeds when hand loading my 6.5x55 . The factory rounds are way under powered because of the amount of ww2 and older rifles that are still around . But with a modern 6.5 sweed you can load up much better rounds .
@@davidheath2427 which bullets and which/how much powder? Just curious. I'm not leaning on mine too hard - abut 2400 fps with 160 gr Woodleigh PPSN on top of H4350. The way I look at it is I'd have to get over 2600 fps with that load to really move the needle on both ballistic arc and energy, and for me, the juice just ain't worth the squeeze. I have a tack-driving deer/hog slayer good for about 250 yards as it is. If I need to reach farther than that, I'll go out with my 280 AI anyway.
Also, the only rifle for which higher pressure loads is really an issue is the Norwegian Krag-Jorgensens. The Swedish small ring M96 is about as strong as any modern rifle.
@smokedbrisket3033 I'm using 153 grain Berger hunters and ar2206. Not sure what the American or hodges equivalent is of that powder . They are going at about 2740 . No sign of cartridge stresses. But all firearms are different. I'm using a modern rifle not an old military. Tika .
@@davidheath2427 - AR2206 is the same powder as Hodgdon Varget. Seems like kind of a fast powder for a 6.5 Swede. Anyway, I also have a T3X - a lefty. AFAIK, that's the only LH 6.5x55 made. Maybe JP Sauer makes one in LH, but they'd be the only other one.
I'm surprised you aren't using Woodleighs, too. Didn't realize you're in Oz. I correspond with the owner every few months, super nice guy. They're not quite back to full production after their fire in...2021 or 2022? Can't remember now.
the problem with the modern cartridge's is cost, whether buying factory or reloading the new stuff is double the cost in many cases
I can't hear what this guy's saying about the new cartridges because of the sound of my 30-06 dropping things
thats hilarious!
All my rifles shoot common military surplus ammo.
5.56, 7.62 x 39, 7.62 x51, etc… I don’t see the point of getting into a caliber you can’t trade for cigarettes or gas.
Someone forgot 27/6.8 caliber..??
It's a forgettable caliber. 😉😉
If they'd made 270 Win with a 9 twist from the get-go, I'd have one. A lot of us like long, heavy bullets, and you just can't get there with a 270 Win. A 170 or 175 gr bullet in .277 would be the bees knees, but you can't stabilize that with a 10 twist.
@@smokedbrisket3033 6.8 western to the rescue!
@@smokedbrisket3033there’s just no reason to go heavier than 150 with a 270 win though. Where she really shines is a 130 doing 3100+. It’s fast, flat, and hits hard.
@@ke5clr - with a 200 yard zero, every modern small bore (30 cal or smaller) bottle neck cartridge is flat out to around 300 yards, give or take a little. 270 is flatter than most, but by no more than a 3 - 5". And it isn't the flattest, even considering other older cartridges like 7mm RM, 280 AI, 264 win mag, and a number of others. Any cartridge that's flat enough to not have to adjust for elevation out to 300 yards on a deer or hog is flat.
MV isn't everything. If it were, I'd be hunting cape buffalo in a couple weeks with a 22-250, not my 9.3x62 (almost decided to bring my 404 Jeffery). Mass + SD = penetration.
@@smokedbrisket3033 I don’t disagree with anything you said there, my point was more that the 270 shines in that role especially on deer sized game. Of course there are much better options for larger animals although I would argue that the 270 is perfectly capable of taking even the largest African game with the right bullet.
If we're talking about punching paper at range, sure. With a SHTF weapon though, commonality is king. 9mm, .223/556, 308, and 12ga is where I'll be. Everything else is just trying to win "cool points."
Ok Pete you have never ruffled my feathers before until now . Did Hornady pay for this video. I will keep my .22-250 or a Ackley version any day over a 22 creedmoor. I will keep my 6 xc or 6 BRA over the 6 creedmoor any day. The 7 and 30 I can buy into. I’m happy with my .30-338 custom not going to get a 30 PRC .I love what you do for this community,Tahnks Big Time
Hi Bruce, I think a lot of people missed the premise of this video sadly. Its for new shooters, Im not saying sell your rifles and buy these instead. And no, no affiliation to Hornady
@@IMPACTSHOOTING, Exactly how I received the video as a newcomer. I still and will always have my inherited classics in .243, .270 and .308 but I am sold on getting a modern cartridge in the safe. Thanks.
I guess the exception would be things like a 1:10 243, with 55gr’s doing 3900’ish… while a 6 creed or GT would probably (definitely) be more practice, vaporising things within 150 yards is pretty dope 😂
Oh Pieter, don't be so hard on the 6.5X55 Swedish, it's a great round, kill untold numbers of deer, Elk & Moose in Europe & here in N. Ireland. It is reliable, will not burn out barrels, low recoil, great history & just looks cool. I recently sold my old STEYR pro-Hunter 6.5X55 Swedish & bought a Tikka T3x in 6.5x55 Swedish. I could have bought 6.5 Creedmoor, like my son did or 6.5 PRC, but frankly, why! My Tikka T3x 20" barrel with 50g N560, 130g SMK bullet is delivering 2819 Fps & the bullet does not drop to subsonic until it passes 1100 metres!😶. Come on! Your got to salute that for such an old girl!😂 As for long action, I also shoot .308 Win & .222Rem, both Short action.. Honestly, I never notice the difference. Also 3 rifles has lovely buttery action .
So come on Pieter, pull out a 6.5x55 swedish in a decent rifle & see just how far you can push the old girl against the 6.5 Creedmoor. You might even enjoy it.😅. Do I wait in vane? Keep up the good work!❤ the videos....
Its never be about the cartridge/chamber being the issue. The issue has always been the old Saami twist rates.
A fast twist 260rem will do everything a 6.5creed will do.....if properly throated
Damn commercial for Hornady
I have noticed guys who talk with thier hands, Love the Creedmoor.
Just buy a 30-06 and be done with it😂
But with modern powders, old cartridges can be turned up, with good brass you can run a 180 in a 30-06 close to 2900 wich is close to 300 win mag levels
.30-06 + 300 fps = .300 H&H Mag., and can be done, carefully in similar barrel lengths. To equal a .300 Win, you need ~400 fps increase... that's too much.
Maybe when these new .277 Fury bi-metal cases come out, maybe .06 length ones, too, and eventually magnums, we can push the '06 and .308 to insane levels, safely...
But Yes, I wholeheartedly agree: modern reloading techniques and components can make the '06 very current and competitive.
Despite all the Hornady-bashing in the comments, Hornady has their Superformance line of factory ammo and it runs ~200 fps faster than their standard load in the same bullet weight.
Quality Factory rifle with quality factory ammo, I'll take an Ought-six or a 7 Rem Mag any day over these new ones, many of which will be long forgotten in decades to come. Some truly are just reinventing the wheel, or improving upon decades-old or even century old designs that don't need fixing.
Marketing. Sales. Shiny ! New ! Bling! Whiz-Bang!
@scottcrawford3745 factvis I can load a 180 norma bondstrik with a 0.615 G1 BC to 2850 in a 26 inch 30-06 (I guess you can gou to 2900 I just dont whant to, 243 has simular case capacity as 6 creed so if it has the same twist I fail to see how 6 creed would out perform it, list goes on and on I get sales but ultimately if people understand internal ballistics then they'd be more inclined to shoot what they already have
The new stuff is great, but I don't see it as a replacement but rather an addition
@scottcrawford3745 the 7 rem mag and 300 win mag out pace the PRC cartridges, the PRC cartridges have the advantage with bullet seating
But there's space for all 4 in my safe...not that the bank whoud agree nore girlfriend...but there's still space
just love self-appointed Expert
Yo Piet, your clock needs some batteries.
Many of these depends on the range used and objective, a .308 will deliver more energy to the target than the 6.5 Creedmoor until around 600 or so yards and for hunting at that distance the bullet drop is not that great. If hunting or target shooting past that distance especially past 800 yards the 6.5 Creedmoor is a no brainer but if you never shoot past three hundred yards a .308 is the way to go. Most of us already have several firearms and keeping the cartridges the same or at least the same bullets for the new gun may make more sense than having to buy multiple types of cartridges and components for a tiny bit of gain on the new gun. If you are new to shooting I think this is a good video but something else to keep in mind is that certain cartridges are very common and will likely be easier to find especially if a large war breaks out and only NATO cartridges are being produced.