If I was a hunter I'd just go 300 Win Mag. Easy to find factory ammunition, no need to worry about reloading as you don't shoot lots of round like target shooters.
@@redrock425 exactly. The majority of hunters don't need more than a 180gr. bullet in .30cal anyway. We have elk and bear here in Michigan, but they tend to run smaller than their western cousins. For me, I rarely use anything more than 165gr. In 300WM. 7mm08 is what I use for everything else. If I were to venture out west for some elk I'd go with heavier bullets.
@@hammerheadms I reload but as you say it's not cheap to get set up for centrefire rifles. I target shoot so it's worth it, but modern factory ammunition for hunting is very good these days.
I saw a joke about a 50bmg necked down to .22 A 30cal or even slightly larger would be a good idea though for something designed specifically for really long range shooting. Could load it lighter. Making it legal in more countries along with not being a 50 anymore. Reduce recoil and use the length of the cartridge to set it up for really really good ballistics coefficient.
@bmxriderforlife1234 It was done in the late 80's or early 90's at a place called Ft Hood. DU was milled down to .30 cal and loaded into sabots into .50 bmg casings. DU requires around 7000 fps to achieve what the mission called for. The Barrett is still on base with 1,200 rounds of the custom ammo
Interesting comment. After numerous conversations with two of the top people that work with both small and medium to large caliber weapons systems for both industry and the DOD... getting to 7,000 fps in small arms or tank guns...is easier said than done. Turning (or machining) DU requires rather special provisions as well. They may have possibly found a way around the hyper velocity gouging that starts to be a problem in the low to mid 6,000 fps range (see: EML IEEE Transactions in Magnetics) but I am not aware of anything being fielded in gun launched weapons systems that has made it into the open (versus possibly classified) literature. In powder driven guns there was a definite threshold reached before 6,500 fps...in my experience with both .30 and .50 caliber variants, and it wasn't hard to find (think close to 95 - 100% of the shots exhibited gouging)! And you better not overlook it when it happens with a follow-on shot! Also, I recommend ADPA/NDIA conferences and publications, along with IEEE... for reliable information in these areas. P.S.:. There was a smooth-bore .50 caliber fletchette rifle and ammunition developed utilizing a DU APFSDS penetrator that was looked at in the 60's to 70's that would have had extremely good external ballistics and was said to be able to defeat 2 feet of concrete...but there might have been some undesirable side effects to carrying around any quantity of unshielded gamma-emitters!d@@bmxriderforlife1234
Unfortunately the .300 PRC was Not around while Chris was Alive . I am absolutely certain that Chris would of Loved shooing the .300 PRC . I personally miss Chris a lot one hell of good guy !
@@thorseim7177 I gave up counting all the gun manufacturers making 300PRC , It was quite a few. I have an old 300WBY Mag and let me tell you. I dont miss loading those belted magnum cases which are a PITA. The 300PRc gets rid of all that and is easy to load , can take a 250 grn bullet, I can actually use the mags instead of trying to do all this with a 300wm and loading 1 round at a time , That is if I can find one with a chamber big enough to take it.
@@PatriotPaulUSA So you're saying that to load a 300 WM that performs similarly to the 300 PRC that the 300 WM will not fit in the magazine because it's too long? I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense.
Absolutely agree. I've got experience on both the 300 PRC and the 300WM. I'm currently using the 300 PRC and loving it. I also fall into the "unless" category. I've managed to stretch it out to a mile on an 18" round plate so far with great success. However, I often suggest the 300WM to others, because most simply aren't going to use it in a way to appreciate the benefit. Especially if they are strictly hunting with it. At the shorter distances(
And what is the reason the bullet can't be seated the same length for the win mag? I load 225gr elds for my win mag even longer than any 300 PRC. I looked at the 300 PRC, but went for the real deal, 300 Norma Magnum. I haven't seen any factory PRC going at 2960fps with 225gr elds like I send them out of my Bighorn TL3 LA win mag. This BS about the 300 PRC benefits over the 300 win mag have to stop. The only benefits are for those that don't reload and if you dont reload, you should stay out of these discussions.
I went from 300 WM & Weatherby Mag to 300 PRC just to get away from reloading belted cartridges. 300 PRC is a dream to load, that alone was enough for me.
@@Sean-pw3yr and what step is that? I load 308, 6.5 needmoor and 300 wm and load all of them the same. I set the fl die on the wm in a way that it headspaces from the shoulder.
@@tiputipu777 a FL die doesn’t resize down to the belt, if you keep resizing it will develop extra brass above the belt, if you want to circumvent this and get brass life collet belt sizer, it’s an extra step and one I prefer to avoid as it’s time consuming. I can get better performance out of non belted cartridges and to be perfectly honest I don’t believe 300 win needs a belt, it was a marketing ploy for the times when “belted” cartridges were the hot thing.
Love these cartridge reviews and comparisons. Sure brings things into perspective and some balance on practicality. I have owned dozens of rifles in the last 50yrs and I have found that sometimes it gets hard to sell off a gun if it's not popular caliber. Example, I had a Browning BLR in 7mm WSM that I was trying to sell but people only wanted a 7mm Rem Mag. I ended up trading that gun for another one at a gun show which was a fair deal. However, for the next couple years, I kept seeing that same guy with that same gun on display at several gun shows and I don't know if he ever did sell it. I just kept avoiding eye contact.
@@ertattajust built my first custom. Terminus action,Proof barrel in 6.5 cm. Jp enterprises chassis. Nightforce atacr 7x35...thing is a shooter and I'll probably never go for a factory rifle again hahaha. Since it's a hand tight barrel setup... I intend on getting a 300 or a 7 wsm barrel for it when I reach the limits of the Creedmoor... If I need more after that will probably go to a medium action or long.... But I set this gun up to be my elr fun rig. So I have a 70 moa base... I think with the base and scope I should be able to get out to 2700 ish yards hahaha... But the goal for this winter is a mile with the creed. And 750 yards for 22 lr 😆
300 PRC is my pick...2miles is my lick.lol I started out shooting 270 Win. Then went to 7mm Rem Mag. Then got involving range precision with 6.5 Creedmoor. Later I wanted a little more and changed to 6.5 PRC. Then my buddy got me into a mile plus and I went to 300 PRC. I LOVE IT. GREAT VIDEO RON.
Sounds like a natural progression, Trey. I like ringing steel out to about 1,000, but after that the mirage etc. sort of takes the fun out of it for me. But glad you're enjoying it.
Thank you for another GREAT comparison. 👍 If I were 19 instead of 69, I would probably want a .300 PRC, instead of a .300 Win Mag. However, the .300 Win Mag is what I have. I'm not a long-range target-shooter. 300 to 400 yards is as far as I ever intend to shoot. Thus, I cannot justify the time, effort, and expense of adapting to a whole new cartridge whose performance is almost indistinguishable from my existing rifle. Shucks, I guess I could drag out good ol' Uncle Jimmy's .300 Weatherby Magnum if I truly felt the need for that scosh-teenth more. Again, thanks for this excellent, fascinating comparison! I truly appreciate the ballistic details, which make for a totally B.S.-free presentation. You present opinions and conclusions logically based on facts. I like that. Great work!😎👍👏
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one... As I've said on lots of these 30cal videos I'm not the biggest fan of any of them but if I wanted to get something in it, it would probably be the PRC but that's because I like shooting steel at long range just as much as I like hunting and I tend to gravitate to guns configured so I can do both even if I have to pull the stock for hunting and drop my barreled action in a different stock or even a chassis. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Hmmm...300WM has been the king at 1000yds for decades. And an even better hunter in the field. LOL...I remember when everybody said the 300WSM would dethrone the WM! And then it was the RUM...LOL! Where are they now???
@@Master...deBaterNew calibers are never going to dethrone a proven cartridge. Like it or not the 300 PRC is a better designed cartridge. Much work went into the design, and it does what it was made to do shoot heavy for caliber bullets with a more efficient case that is more forgiving to even work a load for. It has a market. However, the newer 7mm PRC outperforms it. We will have to see if it in fact has an effect on the 300 PRC's sales. Only time will tell. Personally, any cartridge without a belt is better than any with a belt. When you have a good shoulder belt are unnecessary and often that is a weak spot and they split after multiple reloading if the headspace is even slightly off. BTW records get broken as time goes by with people using better equipment.
@@garrytalley8009I do like the PRC...I just think it's a product in search of a market...rather than an answer to an existing demand. It does nothing that the 300wm can't do. With heavy bullets the win mag actually has better velocities. The only real difference is that the PRC houses the bullet outside the case...while the WM houses it inside. Which in the end is 6 of one, half dozen of another. The PRC has less case capacity...but the bullet in the WM takes up some powder space. As far as the belt is concerned...most handloaders simply headspace off the shoulder in both cases...rendering the belt a non-issue. I never Fl resize my brass...I simply bump the shoulder back a couple thou which prevents working the belt area altogether. And keeps my brass fireformed to the chamber for optimum accuracy. I also load my bullets out to max mag length which negates any ogive issues on long, heavy bullets. The 300wm does everything the PRC can do...yet does it in a standard length action rather than having to jump to a mag length action. Which can negatively affect accuracy.
@@Master...deBaterWe all have our opinions. Every new cartridge is made for a reason. The PRC family of cartridges are designed to be more efficient, and they are. They do have a drawback as far a feed ability. But they are easier to make a load for, make a better chamber seal because of the shoulder and they have a shorter burn column. And for general hunting purposes at most usual ranges all the existing hunting cartridges do the job. It is not searching for a market. The market is doing well with the 7mm PRC as well as any. There really isn't a debate on any of these cartridges. Now if you want one that never took off there are a few like the 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum. You will have no debate on that one either. Priority case, no reloading dies, and it's been out for 7 years, and I had not even known that until recently. Looks like it is not bad, but Weatherby wanted to stick with that silly shoulder design and a belted case. Very huge mistake. Have fun debating. No debate here.
Thank you Ron for the comparison. Love my .300 WM as well as my 7mm RM. If I was still shooting and hand loading I would love to try out the.300 PRC. Always had the most fun working up loads for cartridges and rifles. Take care and have a good weekend.
Thanks Ron: I'll stick with my 300 WM. I have trouble seeing a gray or brown deer or pronghorn at 300 yards. I use good glass and sit behind that glass a lot. Trying to pick out most game animals past 300 yards is very difficult. You are correct if I where to also use my rifle for long range target shooting I could see me going up to the 300 PRC. On a range, I know where the targets are and how far they are. unlike a game animal on the open range.
Hi Ron, great info as per normal and couldnt agree more I recently looked into winmag and prc and bought a bergara 300prc purely because i would like to get into longer range shooting down the track, have been shooting lithgow 308 out to 1000 and really enjoying it to date. A workmate also bought a Bergara at the same time in 300WM for hunting camel and buffalo , we had both gone out together with new guns for break in and sighting at 100m and it was pretty much apples for apples with no noticeable difference. To date after 9 months i have not fired a factory round through mine as there is none available in west oz, even brass was painful as i had to buy lapua as thats all i could get - very exy. Workmate had no problems getting WM factory ammo up to 220g, The 300prc theory is all great with heavy slugs ,i have been using 220 hdy so far but i started thinking about the whole deal when i loaded up some excess sierra 308tmks 178g and thought that with the smaller projies in 300prc there will be a pretty big jump to the lands, yet to test and more an experiment but i do think it would limit choices of higher velocity lighter hunting rounds compared to WM with shorter throat Hopefully me and workmate can get out to do 1000m comparison between the two in the near future. Anyhow , my 2 cents is if you dont handload and if in Oz , dont buy a PRC, apart from that i luv mine and enjoy wasting lots of money finding the perfect handload for it . PS im finding costs lots more than the 308 handloads lol Thanks Ron Cheers Rob
Excellent video comparing hunting bullet to hunting bullet. The PRC shooter is likely to load 225 gr or 230gr Match bullets with G1 BC .823 where it will outperform by a larger margin at distance. At least on paper the PRC should also shoot some really small groups.
Exactly, Geoff, and loading a 220gr 0.654 BC1 round in a 300WM is going to be over the max OAL... of course many magazines will still work with it - but you're not comparing apples to apples. Looking on Hornady's Match loadings, they offer a 178gr ELD Match with G! 0.547 for the 300WM, but a 225gr with 0.777 G1 for the 300 PRC... that is a HUGE terminal difference in drop and windage.
I guess with custom rifles twist rates aren’t an issue, but you aren’t gonna find a 1:8 in a WM factory rifle. That’s where the PRC really would shine in a factory offering. Being able to stabilize those longer pills.
@@rkm237 Kevin, I think Ron is great and love his videos, but if he did some hand loading of long range precision rounds it would open up a window into a world that an increasing number of us enjoy. If you can shoot out you can shoot in, but if you only shoot in then going out is going to be a real problem. But Ron does mention it will make you a better shooter.
Why does any cartridge need to be contained to book spec saami lengths? Idk why ppl seem to think you cant load a long bullet in a 300 win mag lol ive loaded them to 3.52 mag lengths just fine and they work great. A berger 215 hybrid and h1000 in a win mag is the best combo going for both hunting and target
@@redrock425 depth of long heavy bullets in the powder charge for the WM...this causes pressure differences that are the bane of long range target shooters. Unless you are going to be shooting at 1000m regularly there isn't a reason to go with the PRC and if you are then the PRC wins from bullet seating.
It's no magnum by any means. If you're happy with your 30-06 that's great but don't rain on anyone else's parade that want more out of a cartridge. Try the 500-yard shots he talked about. You won't even get a point blank zero with a 30-06 to 300 yards with any bullet load.
A large gun dealer in my area said the biggest problem with the 300prc, and many of the other new rounds (i.e. 6.8 Western) is ammo or even brass availability. That's a hard sell for allot of people when you can't even roll your own!
Making a cartridge more accurate doesn't just benefit long range target shooting, it's just as beneficial for hunting. In modern times we have much more complex test equipment and computers. They discovered that seating a bullet so that the boat tail goes down into the shoulder and the rest of the bullet is above that creates a much more consistent and accurate cartridge. Don't seat the bearing surface of a bullet past the neck. Seating a bullet deep into the case below the shoulder isn't a great idea. Most older cartridges were designed that way though. 7 rem mag is one of my favorite cartridges, and all factory ammo is seated deep. I normally load all my ammo though.
I went with 300 PRC because I am a hand loader and I do shoot a lot of long range, when it came to choosing my first 30 cal magnum rifle the PRC had enough small advantages to convince me to try it
You can always buy a custom barrel with a faster twist and have it chambered in 300 WM and throated for those longer bullets and head-space off of the shoulder... Only saying that because I'm heavily invested in 300 WM. If I feel the need for more, I'll jump to 338 LM.
The PRC is less about out performing the good old 300 Win-mag with higher muzzle velocities and impact energy. It's all about tight grouping at distance. Ron you said it right when you said "Precision"... Precise and tight groups to win Gold trophies. OH.... and it works as a hunting rifle to if you like to use expensive hard to find brass! Another great video too Ron
I like precision rifles for shooting, including hunting. Animals deserve clean death and hunters should be shooters not merely trigger pullers. My take
The venerable ole .300 Winchester Magnum has always had its haters, but it’s proven to be a versatile performer able to change with the times. I have a few rifles chambered in it ranging from a 24” M77 Mark II, a Weatherby stainless Mark V, a pre ‘64 Model 70, and last year I built a 27” 1:9 twist Crown Ridge Barrel Works Remage Model 700 Remington in a MDT chassis that I reload 230 grain A-Tips for and reach out to a mile or a little more. The .300 WM has always proven itself to be a winner despite its so called shortcomings.
Very good vid thank you. Hornady stuck the cartridge in a match grade chamber in a fast twist barrel that combination with a parallel tight throat is what the benchresters use for ultimate accuracy 😊
Ron touched on it but when you travel it's much easier to find commonly used cartridges. If you travel a few hours to a deer camp and you're the only one shooting a 7mm STW, you had better be sure you have the loads you need. Now make that camp Alaska or Africa. Whoops!
My Ruger 77 Mark ii SS from 1999 300 win mag is my old long range shooting with a Simons scope. It was my first 🦌 Deer rifle I payed for one of the best round I'v used.
Haha I’m having a hard time on what custom 300 rifle to build for my first one. Seeing how you just did a review on this is awesome, can’t wait to watch this video. Thanks in advance:).
If you only shoot factory ammo. Choose which ever cartridge you want. For reloading, a beltless cartridge is better. If you full length resize, the belt leads to clambering issues after about 3 reloadings. There is plenty of information on this issue. There is ways to remedy it, but takes an extra step in the reloading process.
So... if you have a 300 Win Mag keep it even for long range stuff fur or steel but if you are in the market to purchase a 300 Class cartridge look to the 300PRC for the all around weapon.
Great video, the PRC takes over in the High BC bulletin weights unless u have a fast twist barrel on the 300 win mag. I also find less recoil with the PRC or at least less violent muzzle rise
One consideration was a statement issued to Tactical-Life: “The 300 Precision Rifle Cartridge (PRC), released by Hornady earlier this year, was tested and selected by the Department of Defense for its extended long range sniper program following a rigorous evaluation process that saw the new Hornady 300 PRC outperform the 300 Norma Mag as well as several other cartridges in testing past 2,000 yards.”
Wow, what? Outperformed the Norma, kinda find that hard to believe being that the Norma has a fatter case capacity. Wonder what’s at play here being that the DoD is a mess right now.
ertatta, they were testing for more than just MV and reach. Goal is, I believe, to get the highest hit percentage at specific distances. Precision (accuracy) then trumps velocity.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors very true but I’ve never heard anyone state that the Norma had issues making precision hits on target. I could maybe see if they were looking for a maybe more economical alternative to the Norma, but other than that I’m not seeing an advantage for the PRC here.
@@ertatta There's many parameters the military has to consider related to ammunition and weapons platform logistics, supply, weight, size and packaging, cost to the military, the needs of tacticians. Some of this might have also come into play between the Norma and PRC.
I'm starting to really like these videos. Something to note for beginners, but if you're shooting off the bench, you can use your rifle as a single-shot rifle and have the bullet seated out as much as you need. Traditionally, you should seat the bullet to meet up with the lans and grooves of the barrel as close as possible, but seating the bullet out farther than factory loads will generally help improve accuracy. Doing so will eliminate the problem of eating into the powder capacity, and since you're shooting off a bench you shouldn't have feeding problems with loading these one at a time.
With the ammo and reloading difficulty today, I would stick to the 300 win mag maninly because I have a better chance of finding brass and availble ammo. Those two cartridges are too close to chose one or the other.
@@Keifsanderson right I think this may be backwards. Right now if yoi can find primers and powders the rare bird brass amd rarebird bullets can be located. Ive been shooting more 28 and 16 gauge than 12 and 20 because I load less shot and powder and the cases and wads are available.
Your latest and greatest comment hit me right in the feels. I realize that since the 6.5 creedmoor came out I have just ran to the gun shop to buy the latest and greatest. The best one I have is my 6.5 prc it is very accurate to 1000 yards or a 100 yards and puts deer meat in the freezer. I was seriously considering buying a 300 prc mostly for hunting but occasionally shooting steel. But I already have a very lonely and neglected 300 winny in my safe...I think I will stick with that one and my 6.5s and not run to the gun store for the latest and greatest...this time. Lol
I'm seeing more factory loads available now. Barnes, Federal, Hornady added a CX load. Weatherby offers several loads now. 300 PRC wasn't built for speed, it was built for precision, as was the 6.5 needmore. I use a Christianson Arms Mesa for hunting, Bergara ( weighs 12 Lbs ), for long range fun.
I was looking for a cartridge like the 300wm but for long range target. 300wm has tons of factory ammo available and this was a primary concern, but it was all hunting loads. 300prc only really has Hornady but it is target, so that won.
Thank you for these excellent comparison videos, sir. I would be interested in a 100m/100yd accuracy test with two *nearly* identical .300 WM/ .300 PRC rifles with SAAMI spec chambers. As you pointed out with the .300 WM chamber throat starting at .315", I think the accuracy/ consistency of the old Win Mag might be slightly less than the .300 PRC due to bullet yaw upon initially contacting the chamber throat. Much like target revolvers, accuracy is all about the "jump" from chamber to rifling and that has a big effect on internal ballistics.
One could certainly make those tests, but they never prove if it was the cartridge or the individual rifle. Or the ammo. Many things from brass consistency and powder load consistency to seating depth to muzzle crown and much more can change precision. All else being equal, however, I suspect the tighter throat of the PRC would have to give it a slight edge. Then again, the average factory hunting rifle in 300 WM doesn't have to shoot 1/4 MOA to hit the vitals of any pronghorn out to 800 yards. Basic MOA will do it.
You can load a 300 win mag well passed SAAMI COALand still be more than 20 thou off the lands. 300 win mag is as good as PRC if you hand load, it’s actual a little faster, but if you want factory ammo then yes PRC
I like to put clays or paper plates at different ranges. As far out as I can consistently hit a 5 inch target is my range on a deer. I personally keep it inside 300 yards for deer. I know people that can hit a 3 inch target at 600 yards more often than I can at 300. Once you have an accurate rifle and cartridge load...it's all up to the shooter. A person might find they can shoot a 280 ackley or 6.5 prc more accurately than a 300 win mag.
Sheer recoil means it’s harder to make a rifle accurate with the win mag, regardless of the shooter. Add the shooter and it gets even harder. That’s the biggest reason I won’t be jumping up to a big 30 soon. Keep it under 60 grains powder and 180 grains of bullet or under and you will probably never need a custom rifle and Probably not have a flinch. That’s my philosophy anyway.
@@jcarry5214 I agree entirely. I'm a smallish guy (5'7" & 155Lbs) and a 180 gr 30-06 is all the recoil I need from a rifle that I might fire all day. No need for anything bigger. Hunting steel plate is pretty easy (they dont move much) and when you get one, they're really hard to chew on.
I think Ron put it best, if you already have a Win Mag there's not a huge difference in ballistics so no reason to run out and buy another rifle unless... The rifles are about the same cost and ammo is close in price. If I ever want to get rid of my Win Mag I would definitely give the PRC a try. Just not enough to push me over yet. Besides my Remington 700 is like part of the family. Great video Ron!
I hand load 210 Bergers over Vhitavouri N565. My 300 Win Mag will put 5 in a penny at 100, and 5 in a can of Kodiak at 600. The PRC and Creedmoor cartridges are just a bunch of marketing hype.
my new xmas present was a new 300 WM and 200 pieces of brass ,my simple decision was bases on not finding any brass for the PRC except for Lapua not going there unless I only wanted 20 ,thanks Ron, Happy New Year
I find that my .300 Weatherby Mark V is all the .308 diameter/caliber, cartridge/rifle I "need". However, like any self avowed "gun-nut" with a safe full of myriad caliber and configured bangers, I base my next firearm purchase solely on want, and never on need; or an in-the-weeds dissection of conjurable ballistics. If need, or the hottest tack driving laser ray-gun on the planet were the determining factors in any decision to buy or not to buy, my father's .30-06 Mauser action rebuild that I inherited would, be more than sufficient to cover the bases I want or "need" to touch.
The hitting power out of the PRC is enough to knock the snot out of a elk/moose. I’ll take the PRC just for the power and accuracy. Idc if I’m slapping targets at 900 yards.
As always,good job Ron.I do enjoy the 300 Winchester and have used it quiet successfully,but the reason I gravitate to magnums,is not to load light bullets to lightning fast speeds,but instead you can load heavier bullets to better speeds.I am old school in that I believe a long heavy bullet is always better than a shorter,lighter bullet,especially when shooting larger game,or you're on an expensive hunt.With that being said,I would like to,and probably will try a 300PRC.I always wanted to shoot heavier bullets in my win mag,but stayed with 200 gr. Nosler Partition.I really like the idea of having quality 220-250 gr. bullets,and since I am going to be moving to Africa to live,I think this would make a great medium to large game round.Besides,it's always fun to get a new round to play with and experiment with,and yes I do handload,so though it may not be as readily available as the win mag,I can hopefully be able to stockpile enough ammo to the PRC beast.Thanks again,keep up the good work.
I’ve settled on my new cartridge Ron. Gone for a 300 rum, 30 degree neck, unbelted case and seeing the barrel will be new 1:8.5 twist 30 incher. Like a 300prc but more betterer. Give cubby a carrot for me, does their teeth wonders.
Easy one, if you're not already invested. 300 PRC for a factory rifle. 300 Win mag for a custom rifle. 300 Win Mag for ammunition availability for hunting. I'm not invested, and target shoot, so 300 PRC it is for me.
I love your videos...really enjoy the campfire chat approach. The PRC sounds intriguing, but I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze IF you've got a quality .300 WM. I don't currently own either, but as my plan is to build a custom rifle from a 1917 action, I'm not sure if the .300 PRC would work in the standard magazine...merits some research for sure.
Thanks for the info Ron. As a handloader I guess I just have a hard time getting excited about this prc cartridge. The belt on my 300 win mag certainly doesn't bring anything great to the table, but it doesn't hurt anything either. My pet load drives a 212 grain eldx at 2875. The precision hunter 300 prc load claims to send the same bullet at 2860 fps. If I just shot factory ammo, I might sing a different tune
I like the PRC for what it is, I don't own a win mag, and am much more likely to shoot long range than shoot deer or elk, so the PRC fits my most likely need and can fill the freezer in a pinch.
@@Kmecha84 nothing wrong with the nosler offerings, from what I've seen on their specs they're speed demons and don't necessarily do heavy for caliber bullets which is kind of where I was leaning (of course you can always have a fully custom rifle made with your own throat specs and magazine length etc) But my reasoning with the 300PRC was due to the military picking it up (in limited quantities) for long range shooting, and with Hornady being one of the biggest ammo manufacturers in the country and in the world I don't see them letting their own creation die off. I think 300PRC is going to stick around because honestly it's just a "better" 300WM that can push those heavy bullets just a touch faster without moving to a full magnum length action.
@@Kross8761 the 300 wm is definitely here to stay for the long haul, alot of followers and for good reason. I understand what you're saying with heavy for caliber bullets but how heavy are you wanting to go? 30 Nosler claims 4196 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle with a 210 gr accubond. with the 1:8 twist that it has, it'll shoot heavier bullets no problem. Also nothing wrong with the 300 prc it's a great offering
@@Kmecha84 I'm mostly concerned with muzzle velocity with those heavy bullets, the 212gr is the "light" bullet for 300PRC, and it can go up to 250gr with the appropriate twist rate, but 220-230 is what I'm looking for, and the 300PRC is pushing the 225gr ELD-M at about 2950 out of a 26" barrel which is still supersonic at 2000+ yards and will still reliably expand out to 1600. (At extended ranges, "match" bullets expand at velocities that "hunting" bullets won't, I wouldn't use them closer than 500-600 yards, but past that, they usually perform better than hunting bullets) I'm less concerned with muzzle energy numbers and more concerned with the velocity that a round requires to reliably expand. You can have an FMJ that has an excellent muzzle energy on paper, but since it doesn't expand it just pencils through and pokes a small hole, meanwhile a bullet that expands magnificently might have a meager raw muzzle energy, but it performs spectacularly. I agree that the Win Mag is here to stay, and I don't think the PRC is going to "dethrone" it, but I think there are new options that *are* "better", it's just that many people don't need or want or want to PAY for "better"
300 PRC is great for long range but for under 400 yards the good old 300 win mag is a great hunting caliber for elk, bear or even deer. I really like the 300 wsm for hunting in a little lighter rifle and because I reload it’s the best all around 300 for my needs! If I were looking for a new gun that 300 PRC would sure be a great 300 to hunt and target shoot combo!
The 300 Win Mag, when following SAAMI specs, is limited to bullets with a relatively shorter ogive. The SAAMI specs on the PRC allow much longer, sleeker ogives that give it an advantage at long distances. It is not just a matter of the base of the bullet being in the case. With the Win Mag, the most efficient bullets would have the OGIVE down inside the neck of the cartridge. In addition, the jump to the lands would be huge (causing poor accuracy). This is where things get confusing for some people. Yes, IF the PRC uses the same short-ogived, less aerodynamic bullets as the Win Mag, the performance is fairly close. The PRC, however, is not limited to those bullets and when using long-ogived, high-BC bullets performs better at long range. Factory ammo with these fancy bullets is available. To further confuse things, many 300 Win Mags are modified from the SAAMI specs in order to perform better at long range. They can be put on longer actions (to use longer-ogived bullets), use faster-twist barrels, and have modified chambers. They require custom ammo to perform at their best, so factory ammo is not an option.
@@Gunker02 He is not using a SAAMI spec 300Win Mag cartridge or rifle. At about 20 seconds into the 300PRC v 300Win Mag video, there is text that says he is using a 1:9 twist barrel and a cartridge OAL of 3.780" for the 300Win Mag. The SAAMI spec is 1:10 twist for the barrel and 3.34" OAL. There is an image that shows the loaded cartridge and it is much longer than would fit in the magazine of a typical 300Win Mag rifle. Note that he is single loading. His shooting is still impressive, though!
Dan, the reason you see it so crammed down is because SAAMI specs limit overall cartridge length to 3.34". Chambers and throats are reamed to best accommodate that and magazines are often/usually just long enough to fit it. Yes, you can seat bullets out farther, but only if your rifle magazine accepts them (unless you want to hand feed single-shot style) and the bullet doesn't jam into the rifling when chambered. Be careful, handloaders.
I have been loading for the 300 Winchester Mag for years and I shoot out to 1000 yards tournaments and hunting. I won’t shoot past 600 yards hunting. 7:00 I Have found that 180 grain Hornady interbond bullets are a lot more accurate that lower grain bullets
Same thing for .270 WSM vs 6.8 Western.... I reload my own ammo, and own a few rifles ("A few??" my wife speaking here... ) but I don't have any 6.8 Western... After looking at the numbers, I am not interested in a 6.8 Western (which is a superb caliber) because I don't see enough advantages over the .270 WSM to change or by another rifle...
Kinda same slight advantages you see in the comparison in Ron’s video. The 6.8 has a longer neck for bullet seating & new factory rifles for 6.8 are 1:7.5 twist to take advantage of 175gn projectiles.
They gotta get people to CONSOOM and sell new rifles somehow. And people fall for it every couple years. Im not talking about competitive shooters, but your average Joe who shoots 3 times a year to sight in and then a elk or deer under 300 yards. Its amazing how gullible people are really.
I have a 300prc because I walked into a gun shop one day and they had an mrad at between 3-4k and that was the caliber it was in. Traded a bunch of guns as fast as I could.
Lapua is making brass for the win mag and prc. For the people that don’t reload go with the 300 win mag. Loading the 300 prc will take less steps because it is belt less. The Sammi reamer size for the 300 prc need to be revised. Clickers on a few reloads with 300 prc is to commen.
For hunting and ammo availability 300wm. For making money/living from shooting matches 300prc. Its a niche caliber because there really is no difference at ethical hunting ranges. Its only better out past any known ethical range of hunting. Paper and steel targets dont move, animals do.
The 300 W mag I believe has more platforms to fire the round from meaning more diversity in firearms choices. The old standard bolt action is great but many carbine’s and even pistol carbine’s are available. That’s a pretty big plus it gives it a also a option as a home protection and Zombie Apocalypse flash mob diversity.
One shot one kill on a bull elk this year with a 300 prc (an inexpensive CVA factory rifle, shooting factory ammo with under 1/2 inch 100yd groups out of the box) …… although, admittedly I quintuple checked that I’d packed my ammo b4 heading out on the trip because you may not find it local for sale.
Hmm. My next rifle will be a 6.5 CM AR-10 build. Will use that for deer and smaller. My next bolt action build will be something .300 range, either a .300 win mag, .300 PRC, or .300 Norma. Have to see what happens with ammo availability and prices over the next couple years. The Military is adopting the 300 Norma so Ammo availability should go up and price should come down there eventually. We'll see.
This dude narrates like the ballistic version of Morgan Freeman. Job well done. I learn so much from Mr. Spomer.
Morgan Freeman has big hand spoomer has little hands.
At least I know I can can almost always find 300WM on the store shelves. Can't go wrong with the old reliable Win Mag.
Load your own ammo. Problem solved.
If I was a hunter I'd just go 300 Win Mag. Easy to find factory ammunition, no need to worry about reloading as you don't shoot lots of round like target shooters.
@@TexanUSMC8089 some of us don't have the time, space, or tools to be able to do that. It's not like it's a cheap hobbie to get into either.
@@redrock425 exactly. The majority of hunters don't need more than a 180gr. bullet in .30cal anyway. We have elk and bear here in Michigan, but they tend to run smaller than their western cousins. For me, I rarely use anything more than 165gr. In 300WM. 7mm08 is what I use for everything else. If I were to venture out west for some elk I'd go with heavier bullets.
@@hammerheadms I reload but as you say it's not cheap to get set up for centrefire rifles. I target shoot so it's worth it, but modern factory ammunition for hunting is very good these days.
The great .30cal race to the top.
Will somebody just go ahead and neck down a .50BMG case for a .30cal and get this over with 🤯
I saw a joke about a 50bmg necked down to .22
A 30cal or even slightly larger would be a good idea though for something designed specifically for really long range shooting.
Could load it lighter. Making it legal in more countries along with not being a 50 anymore. Reduce recoil and use the length of the cartridge to set it up for really really good ballistics coefficient.
Probably get about 50 shots before your rifle is s smooth bore 😂
well they is a wildcat that is just say a short 50 they cut the case down and necked it to a 30 cal
@bmxriderforlife1234 It was done in the late 80's or early 90's at a place called Ft Hood. DU was milled down to .30 cal and loaded into sabots into .50 bmg casings. DU requires around 7000 fps to achieve what the mission called for. The Barrett is still on base with 1,200 rounds of the custom ammo
Interesting comment. After numerous conversations with two of the top people that work with both small and medium to large caliber weapons systems for both industry and the DOD...
getting to 7,000 fps in small arms or tank guns...is easier said than done. Turning (or machining) DU requires rather special provisions as well. They may have possibly found a way around the hyper velocity gouging that starts to be a problem in the low to mid 6,000 fps range (see: EML IEEE Transactions in Magnetics) but I am not aware of anything being fielded in gun launched weapons systems that has made it into the open (versus possibly classified) literature. In powder driven guns there was a definite threshold reached before 6,500 fps...in my experience with both .30 and .50 caliber variants, and it wasn't hard to find (think close to 95 - 100% of the shots exhibited gouging)! And you better not overlook it when it happens with a follow-on shot! Also, I recommend ADPA/NDIA conferences and publications, along with IEEE... for reliable information in these areas.
P.S.:. There was a smooth-bore .50 caliber fletchette rifle and ammunition developed utilizing a DU APFSDS penetrator that was looked at in the 60's to 70's that would have had extremely good external ballistics and was said to be able to defeat 2 feet of concrete...but there might have been some undesirable side effects to carrying around any quantity of unshielded gamma-emitters!d@@bmxriderforlife1234
Chris Kyle had no long range accuracy issues with the Win Mag ;). Another great comparison. Thank you Ron.
Unfortunately the .300 PRC was Not around while Chris was Alive . I am absolutely certain that Chris would of Loved shooing the .300 PRC . I personally miss Chris a lot one hell of good guy !
@@secretsquirrel1534 no doubt he would love the 300 prc.
@@thorseim7177 I gave up counting all the gun manufacturers making 300PRC , It was quite a few. I have an old 300WBY Mag and let me tell you. I dont miss loading those belted magnum cases which are a PITA. The 300PRc gets rid of all that and is easy to load , can take a 250 grn bullet, I can actually use the mags instead of trying to do all this with a 300wm and loading 1 round at a time , That is if I can find one with a chamber big enough to take it.
@@PatriotPaulUSA give me a case that causes no trouble
@@PatriotPaulUSA So you're saying that to load a 300 WM that performs similarly to the 300 PRC that the 300 WM will not fit in the magazine because it's too long? I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense.
Absolutely agree. I've got experience on both the 300 PRC and the 300WM. I'm currently using the 300 PRC and loving it. I also fall into the "unless" category. I've managed to stretch it out to a mile on an 18" round plate so far with great success. However, I often suggest the 300WM to others, because most simply aren't going to use it in a way to appreciate the benefit. Especially if they are strictly hunting with it. At the shorter distances(
And what is the reason the bullet can't be seated the same length for the win mag? I load 225gr elds for my win mag even longer than any 300 PRC. I looked at the 300 PRC, but went for the real deal, 300 Norma Magnum. I haven't seen any factory PRC going at 2960fps with 225gr elds like I send them out of my Bighorn TL3 LA win mag. This BS about the 300 PRC benefits over the 300 win mag have to stop. The only benefits are for those that don't reload and if you dont reload, you should stay out of these discussions.
Ok mr you go and know it all
I went from 300 WM & Weatherby Mag to 300 PRC just to get away from reloading belted cartridges. 300 PRC is a dream to load, that alone was enough for me.
I've never had an issue with loading belted cartridges or even noticed a difference
@@tatsuhirosatou5513 one less step on non-belted cartridges.
@@Sean-pw3yr and what step is that? I load 308, 6.5 needmoor and 300 wm and load all of them the same. I set the fl die on the wm in a way that it headspaces from the shoulder.
Nice to know 🙂 for the future reference Thank you for the insight 👍... I reload about 50% of the time
@@tiputipu777 a FL die doesn’t resize down to the belt, if you keep resizing it will develop extra brass above the belt, if you want to circumvent this and get brass life collet belt sizer, it’s an extra step and one I prefer to avoid as it’s time consuming. I can get better performance out of non belted cartridges and to be perfectly honest I don’t believe 300 win needs a belt, it was a marketing ploy for the times when “belted” cartridges were the hot thing.
As Paul Harrell would say "not enough difference to make a difference." I would have liked to see ULD ballistics out to 1500 or 1750 yds
Love these cartridge reviews and comparisons. Sure brings things into perspective and some balance on practicality. I have owned dozens of rifles in the last 50yrs and I have found that sometimes it gets hard to sell off a gun if it's not popular caliber. Example, I had a Browning BLR in 7mm WSM that I was trying to sell but people only wanted a 7mm Rem Mag. I ended up trading that gun for another one at a gun show which was a fair deal. However, for the next couple years, I kept seeing that same guy with that same gun on display at several gun shows and I don't know if he ever did sell it. I just kept avoiding eye contact.
Lol I agree but you just need to find the right guy, I would absolutely LOVE a BLR in 7WSM
Those WSM & SAUM chamberings are making quite a comeback in the long range precision world whether for hunting or purely target.
I'm building a wsm in the short action.....
And if I get to a point(I might) that I need more for elr. Then I'll go with a longer action
@@prone_wolf8871 all the 7 SAUM shooters seem very excited about the new Big Horn medium action.
@@ertattajust built my first custom.
Terminus action,Proof barrel in 6.5 cm.
Jp enterprises chassis. Nightforce atacr 7x35...thing is a shooter and I'll probably never go for a factory rifle again hahaha.
Since it's a hand tight barrel setup...
I intend on getting a 300 or a 7 wsm barrel for it when I reach the limits of the Creedmoor...
If I need more after that will probably go to a medium action or long....
But I set this gun up to be my elr fun rig.
So I have a 70 moa base... I think with the base and scope I should be able to get out to 2700 ish yards hahaha...
But the goal for this winter is a mile with the creed. And 750 yards for 22 lr 😆
Thks Ron for ALL your videos. The way you break things down in a simple way is awesome!
Thank you Mr. Railey.
I was just telling my buddy how we needed a 300prc. Of course he asked why. I answered "because".
300 PRC is my pick...2miles is my lick.lol
I started out shooting 270 Win.
Then went to 7mm Rem Mag.
Then got involving range precision with 6.5 Creedmoor. Later I wanted a little more and changed to 6.5 PRC.
Then my buddy got me into a mile plus and I went to 300 PRC.
I LOVE IT.
GREAT VIDEO RON.
Sounds like a natural progression, Trey. I like ringing steel out to about 1,000, but after that the mirage etc. sort of takes the fun out of it for me. But glad you're enjoying it.
The Bob Ross of outdoors and hunting!
Thank you for another GREAT comparison. 👍
If I were 19 instead of 69, I would probably want a .300 PRC, instead of a .300 Win Mag. However, the .300 Win Mag is what I have.
I'm not a long-range target-shooter. 300 to 400 yards is as far as I ever intend to shoot. Thus, I cannot justify the time, effort, and expense of adapting to a whole new cartridge whose performance is almost indistinguishable from my existing rifle.
Shucks, I guess I could drag out good ol' Uncle Jimmy's .300 Weatherby Magnum if I truly felt the need for that scosh-teenth more.
Again, thanks for this excellent, fascinating comparison! I truly appreciate the ballistic details, which make for a totally B.S.-free presentation.
You present opinions and conclusions logically based on facts. I like that.
Great work!😎👍👏
Age is in the head bud. 69 is the new 30.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one... As I've said on lots of these 30cal videos I'm not the biggest fan of any of them but if I wanted to get something in it, it would probably be the PRC but that's because I like shooting steel at long range just as much as I like hunting and I tend to gravitate to guns configured so I can do both even if I have to pull the stock for hunting and drop my barreled action in a different stock or even a chassis. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Hmmm...300WM has been the king at 1000yds for decades. And an even better hunter in the field. LOL...I remember when everybody said the 300WSM would dethrone the WM! And then it was the RUM...LOL! Where are they now???
@@Master...deBaterthe RUM is a beast of a cartridge, just not a good idea for a hunting rifle.
@@Master...deBaterNew calibers are never going to dethrone a proven cartridge. Like it or not the 300 PRC is a better designed cartridge. Much work went into the design, and it does what it was made to do shoot heavy for caliber bullets with a more efficient case that is more forgiving to even work a load for. It has a market. However, the newer 7mm PRC outperforms it. We will have to see if it in fact has an effect on the 300 PRC's sales. Only time will tell. Personally, any cartridge without a belt is better than any with a belt. When you have a good shoulder belt are unnecessary and often that is a weak spot and they split after multiple reloading if the headspace is even slightly off. BTW records get broken as time goes by with people using better equipment.
@@garrytalley8009I do like the PRC...I just think it's a product in search of a market...rather than an answer to an existing demand. It does nothing that the 300wm can't do. With heavy bullets the win mag actually has better velocities. The only real difference is that the PRC houses the bullet outside the case...while the WM houses it inside. Which in the end is 6 of one, half dozen of another. The PRC has less case capacity...but the bullet in the WM takes up some powder space. As far as the belt is concerned...most handloaders simply headspace off the shoulder in both cases...rendering the belt a non-issue. I never Fl resize my brass...I simply bump the shoulder back a couple thou which prevents working the belt area altogether. And keeps my brass fireformed to the chamber for optimum accuracy. I also load my bullets out to max mag length which negates any ogive issues on long, heavy bullets. The 300wm does everything the PRC can do...yet does it in a standard length action rather than having to jump to a mag length action. Which can negatively affect accuracy.
@@Master...deBaterWe all have our opinions. Every new cartridge is made for a reason. The PRC family of cartridges are designed to be more efficient, and they are. They do have a drawback as far a feed ability. But they are easier to make a load for, make a better chamber seal because of the shoulder and they have a shorter burn column. And for general hunting purposes at most usual ranges all the existing hunting cartridges do the job. It is not searching for a market. The market is doing well with the 7mm PRC as well as any. There really isn't a debate on any of these cartridges. Now if you want one that never took off there are a few like the 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum. You will have no debate on that one either. Priority case, no reloading dies, and it's been out for 7 years, and I had not even known that until recently. Looks like it is not bad, but Weatherby wanted to stick with that silly shoulder design and a belted case. Very huge mistake. Have fun debating. No debate here.
Thank you Ron for the comparison. Love my .300 WM as well as my 7mm RM. If I was still shooting and hand loading I would love to try out the.300 PRC. Always had the most fun working up loads for cartridges and rifles. Take care and have a good weekend.
Thanks Matt.
Thanks Ron:
I'll stick with my 300 WM. I have trouble seeing a gray or brown deer or pronghorn at 300 yards. I use good glass and sit behind that glass a lot. Trying to pick out most game animals past 300 yards is very difficult.
You are correct if I where to also use my rifle for long range target shooting I could see me going up to the 300 PRC. On a range, I know where the targets are and how far they are. unlike a game animal on the open range.
Hi Ron, great info as per normal and couldnt agree more
I recently looked into winmag and prc and bought a bergara 300prc purely because i would like to get into longer range shooting down the track, have been shooting lithgow 308 out to 1000 and really enjoying it to date.
A workmate also bought a Bergara at the same time in 300WM for hunting camel and buffalo , we had both gone out together with new guns for break in and sighting at 100m and it was pretty much apples for apples with no noticeable difference.
To date after 9 months i have not fired a factory round through mine as there is none available in west oz, even brass was painful as i had to buy lapua as thats all i could get - very exy. Workmate had no problems getting WM factory ammo up to 220g,
The 300prc theory is all great with heavy slugs ,i have been using 220 hdy so far but i started thinking about the whole deal when i loaded up some excess sierra 308tmks 178g and thought that with the smaller projies in 300prc there will be a pretty big jump to the lands, yet to test and more an experiment but i do think it would limit choices of higher velocity lighter hunting rounds compared to WM with shorter throat
Hopefully me and workmate can get out to do 1000m comparison between the two in the near future.
Anyhow , my 2 cents is if you dont handload and if in Oz , dont buy a PRC, apart from that i luv mine and enjoy wasting lots of money finding the perfect handload for it . PS im finding costs lots more than the 308 handloads lol
Thanks Ron
Cheers
Rob
Thanks Rob. Let us know if you find advantages in the PRC at 1,000.
What is Oz?
@@actionjksn Hey mate, Oz is just short (Slang) for Australia
Cheers
Rob
@@robcullen9984
Yeah, I didn't think you were shooting camels in Wyoming. Buffalo maybe.
Excellent video comparing hunting bullet to hunting bullet. The PRC shooter is likely to load 225 gr or 230gr Match bullets with G1 BC .823 where it will outperform by a larger margin at distance. At least on paper the PRC should also shoot some really small groups.
Exactly, Geoff, and loading a 220gr 0.654 BC1 round in a 300WM is going to be over the max OAL... of course many magazines will still work with it - but you're not comparing apples to apples. Looking on Hornady's Match loadings, they offer a 178gr ELD Match with G! 0.547 for the 300WM, but a 225gr with 0.777 G1 for the 300 PRC... that is a HUGE terminal difference in drop and windage.
I guess with custom rifles twist rates aren’t an issue, but you aren’t gonna find a 1:8 in a WM factory rifle. That’s where the PRC really would shine in a factory offering. Being able to stabilize those longer pills.
@@rkm237 Kevin, I think Ron is great and love his videos, but if he did some hand loading of long range precision rounds it would open up a window into a world that an increasing number of us enjoy. If you can shoot out you can shoot in, but if you only shoot in then going out is going to be a real problem. But Ron does mention it will make you a better shooter.
Why does any cartridge need to be contained to book spec saami lengths? Idk why ppl seem to think you cant load a long bullet in a 300 win mag lol ive loaded them to 3.52 mag lengths just fine and they work great. A berger 215 hybrid and h1000 in a win mag is the best combo going for both hunting and target
So in short. A 300prc factory load beats a 300wm hand load
Hand load both, 300prc widens the gap because you can use 230g and 250g
If you have a factory chamber on the WM. If it's custom throated the WM may just have the edge.
@@redrock425 depth of long heavy bullets in the powder charge for the WM...this causes pressure differences that are the bane of long range target shooters. Unless you are going to be shooting at 1000m regularly there isn't a reason to go with the PRC and if you are then the PRC wins from bullet seating.
Thanks for the video! Looks like 300PRC is the one for me. I'll mostly be hunting paper and steel, and only occasionally hunting critters.
I have never had any problem getting hits out to 300 with my .30/06.
The first” beltless magnum” lol.
Good vid. Ron🤠
It's no magnum by any means. If you're happy with your 30-06 that's great but don't rain on anyone else's parade that want more out of a cartridge. Try the 500-yard shots he talked about. You won't even get a point blank zero with a 30-06 to 300 yards with any bullet load.
A large gun dealer in my area said the biggest problem with the 300prc, and many of the other new rounds (i.e. 6.8 Western) is ammo or even brass availability. That's a hard sell for allot of people when you can't even roll your own!
Wonderful job Mr. Spomer as always! Perfect content...currently mulling this over now, probably go with the 300 Win Mag...
Its 2023, the 300prc is already forgotten
I love the 300win.mag. It's a go getter.Finding ammo is also easier.
Making a cartridge more accurate doesn't just benefit long range target shooting, it's just as beneficial for hunting. In modern times we have much more complex test equipment and computers. They discovered that seating a bullet so that the boat tail goes down into the shoulder and the rest of the bullet is above that creates a much more consistent and accurate cartridge. Don't seat the bearing surface of a bullet past the neck. Seating a bullet deep into the case below the shoulder isn't a great idea. Most older cartridges were designed that way though. 7 rem mag is one of my favorite cartridges, and all factory ammo is seated deep. I normally load all my ammo though.
I went with 300 PRC because I am a hand loader and I do shoot a lot of long range, when it came to choosing my first 30 cal magnum rifle the PRC had enough small advantages to convince me to try it
300 mag is hard to find brass for and finding a good load is not a piece of cake. I'd say you're right about getting away from belted cases.
You can always buy a custom barrel with a faster twist and have it chambered in 300 WM and throated for those longer bullets and head-space off of the shoulder... Only saying that because I'm heavily invested in 300 WM. If I feel the need for more, I'll jump to 338 LM.
Great video Ron, I'm happy I didn't drink the PRC cocktail.
The PRC is less about out performing the good old 300 Win-mag with higher muzzle velocities and impact energy. It's all about tight grouping at distance. Ron you said it right when you said "Precision"... Precise and tight groups to win Gold trophies.
OH.... and it works as a hunting rifle to if you like to use expensive hard to find brass!
Another great video too Ron
I like precision rifles for shooting, including hunting. Animals deserve clean death and hunters should be shooters not merely trigger pullers. My take
The venerable ole .300 Winchester Magnum has always had its haters, but it’s proven to be a versatile performer able to change with the times. I have a few rifles chambered in it ranging from a 24” M77 Mark II, a Weatherby stainless Mark V, a pre ‘64 Model 70, and last year I built a 27” 1:9 twist Crown Ridge Barrel Works Remage Model 700 Remington in a MDT chassis that I reload 230 grain A-Tips for and reach out to a mile or a little more. The .300 WM has always proven itself to be a winner despite its so called shortcomings.
Ruger M77 mark ii SS from the 90's
Is my best shooting 300 win mag rifle
Never seen one problem with the M77
Rifles.👍🏽
As Paul Harrell would say: Not enough of a difference, to make a difference. Great video as always Ron!
Very good vid thank you.
Hornady stuck the cartridge in a match grade chamber in a fast twist barrel that combination with a parallel tight throat is what the benchresters use for ultimate accuracy 😊
Ron touched on it but when you travel it's much easier to find commonly used cartridges. If you travel a few hours to a deer camp and you're the only one shooting a 7mm STW, you had better be sure you have the loads you need. Now make that camp Alaska or Africa. Whoops!
Thank you!
My Ruger 77 Mark ii SS from 1999
300 win mag is my old long range shooting with a Simons scope. It was my first 🦌 Deer rifle I payed for one of the best round I'v used.
It’s the throat angle that makes the 300 PRC so accurate.
It’s also probably got the best barrel life out of any 30 cal magnum which is a huge plus
partially its also the fact it can take those huge long bullets and has a faster twist to stabilize them. It also has a longer magazine to hold them.
@@PatriotPaulUSA Amen to that that’s big facts literally
Excellent video Ron. 👍👍
Thanks 👍
Haha I’m having a hard time on what custom 300 rifle to build for my first one. Seeing how you just did a review on this is awesome, can’t wait to watch this video. Thanks in advance:).
Go 300Norma to really take advantage of modern ultra high BC projectiles.
If you only shoot factory ammo. Choose which ever cartridge you want. For reloading, a beltless cartridge is better. If you full length resize, the belt leads to clambering issues after about 3 reloadings. There is plenty of information on this issue. There is ways to remedy it, but takes an extra step in the reloading process.
Exactly! Well said
So... if you have a 300 Win Mag keep it even for long range stuff fur or steel but if you are in the market to purchase a 300 Class cartridge look to the 300PRC for the all around weapon.
Yes
Great video, the PRC takes over in the High BC bulletin weights unless u have a fast twist barrel on the 300 win mag. I also find less recoil with the PRC or at least less violent muzzle rise
Great comparison. You covered all the major points wonderfully.
Thanks for sharing your insights on these Ron.
Sure thing!
One consideration was a statement issued to Tactical-Life:
“The 300 Precision Rifle Cartridge (PRC), released by Hornady earlier this year, was tested and selected by the Department of Defense for its extended long range sniper program following a rigorous evaluation process that saw the new Hornady 300 PRC outperform the 300 Norma Mag as well as several other cartridges in testing past 2,000 yards.”
Wow, what? Outperformed the Norma, kinda find that hard to believe being that the Norma has a fatter case capacity. Wonder what’s at play here being that the DoD is a mess right now.
ertatta, they were testing for more than just MV and reach. Goal is, I believe, to get the highest hit percentage at specific distances. Precision (accuracy) then trumps velocity.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors very true but I’ve never heard anyone state that the Norma had issues making precision hits on target. I could maybe see if they were looking for a maybe more economical alternative to the Norma, but other than that I’m not seeing an advantage for the PRC here.
@@ertatta There's many parameters the military has to consider related to ammunition and weapons platform logistics, supply, weight, size and packaging, cost to the military, the needs of tacticians. Some of this might have also come into play between the Norma and PRC.
@@exothermal.sprocket But in the end SOCOM and the US Army chose 300 Norma Magnum instead of 300 PRC.
I'm starting to really like these videos. Something to note for beginners, but if you're shooting off the bench, you can use your rifle as a single-shot rifle and have the bullet seated out as much as you need. Traditionally, you should seat the bullet to meet up with the lans and grooves of the barrel as close as possible, but seating the bullet out farther than factory loads will generally help improve accuracy. Doing so will eliminate the problem of eating into the powder capacity, and since you're shooting off a bench you shouldn't have feeding problems with loading these one at a time.
I shoot 215 Berger’s and 245 Berger’s in my prc and 215s in the win mag. Pretty much the same thing, whatever floats your boat.
Great review. This answered all the questions I had regarding differences for .300 PRC.
With the ammo and reloading difficulty today, I would stick to the 300 win mag maninly because I have a better chance of finding brass and availble ammo. Those two cartridges are too close to chose one or the other.
Nevermind brass and bullets. I can't find primers and powder.
@@Keifsanderson right I think this may be backwards. Right now if yoi can find primers and powders the rare bird brass amd rarebird bullets can be located.
Ive been shooting more 28 and 16 gauge than 12 and 20 because I load less shot and powder and the cases and wads are available.
Your latest and greatest comment hit me right in the feels. I realize that since the 6.5 creedmoor came out I have just ran to the gun shop to buy the latest and greatest. The best one I have is my 6.5 prc it is very accurate to 1000 yards or a 100 yards and puts deer meat in the freezer. I was seriously considering buying a 300 prc mostly for hunting but occasionally shooting steel. But I already have a very lonely and neglected 300 winny in my safe...I think I will stick with that one and my 6.5s and not run to the gun store for the latest and greatest...this time. Lol
I'm seeing more factory loads available now. Barnes, Federal, Hornady added a CX load. Weatherby offers several loads now. 300 PRC wasn't built for speed, it was built for precision,
as was the 6.5 needmore. I use a Christianson Arms Mesa for hunting, Bergara ( weighs 12 Lbs ),
for long range fun.
I was looking for a cartridge like the 300wm but for long range target. 300wm has tons of factory ammo available and this was a primary concern, but it was all hunting loads. 300prc only really has Hornady but it is target, so that won.
Subbed bc of this video, this VS has been plauging my brain
Thank you for these excellent comparison videos, sir. I would be interested in a 100m/100yd accuracy test with two *nearly* identical .300 WM/ .300 PRC rifles with SAAMI spec chambers. As you pointed out with the .300 WM chamber throat starting at .315", I think the accuracy/ consistency of the old Win Mag might be slightly less than the .300 PRC due to bullet yaw upon initially contacting the chamber throat. Much like target revolvers, accuracy is all about the "jump" from chamber to rifling and that has a big effect on internal ballistics.
One could certainly make those tests, but they never prove if it was the cartridge or the individual rifle. Or the ammo. Many things from brass consistency and powder load consistency to seating depth to muzzle crown and much more can change precision. All else being equal, however, I suspect the tighter throat of the PRC would have to give it a slight edge. Then again, the average factory hunting rifle in 300 WM doesn't have to shoot 1/4 MOA to hit the vitals of any pronghorn out to 800 yards. Basic MOA will do it.
You can load a 300 win mag well passed SAAMI COALand still be more than 20 thou off the lands. 300 win mag is as good as PRC if you hand load, it’s actual a little faster, but if you want factory ammo then yes PRC
Could you please do a video on the 22 grendel. Wild cat
I like to put clays or paper plates at different ranges. As far out as I can consistently hit a 5 inch target is my range on a deer. I personally keep it inside 300 yards for deer. I know people that can hit a 3 inch target at 600 yards more often than I can at 300. Once you have an accurate rifle and cartridge load...it's all up to the shooter. A person might find they can shoot a 280 ackley or 6.5 prc more accurately than a 300 win mag.
Sheer recoil means it’s harder to make a rifle accurate with the win mag, regardless of the shooter. Add the shooter and it gets even harder. That’s the biggest reason I won’t be jumping up to a big 30 soon. Keep it under 60 grains powder and 180 grains of bullet or under and you will probably never need a custom rifle and Probably not have a flinch. That’s my philosophy anyway.
@@jcarry5214 I agree entirely. I'm a smallish guy (5'7" & 155Lbs) and a 180 gr 30-06 is all the recoil I need from a rifle that I might fire all day. No need for anything bigger. Hunting steel plate is pretty easy (they dont move much) and when you get one, they're really hard to chew on.
@@csjrogerson2377 yeah I just got my first two dental crowns. Steel game and big antler soup are even less appealing than before.
Ron, the one on your left my right over rules them all! 300RUM baby! Thanks!
Yes, the RUM is faster, but some 30-378 Wby. Mag. loads are faster yet.
300 PRC for when you want to hit an Elk with the power of Thors Hammer
Love how you sprinkle education into your videos!
Thanks for the break down Ron
Fantastic review and very honest, thank you Ron ❤
I think Ron put it best, if you already have a Win Mag there's not a huge difference in ballistics so no reason to run out and buy another rifle unless... The rifles are about the same cost and ammo is close in price. If I ever want to get rid of my Win Mag I would definitely give the PRC a try. Just not enough to push me over yet. Besides my Remington 700 is like part of the family. Great video Ron!
I think the accuracy potential of the prc is awesome
good luck finding it and if you do paying less than 100bucks a box
I hand load 210 Bergers over Vhitavouri N565. My 300 Win Mag will put 5 in a penny at 100, and 5 in a can of Kodiak at 600. The PRC and Creedmoor cartridges are just a bunch of marketing hype.
@@dalton6786I just picked up Hornady match 300 PRC 225 gr for 51$ a box 250$ later I’m set for a while. There’s quite a bit of PRC here in montana.
my new xmas present was a new 300 WM and 200 pieces of brass ,my simple decision was bases on not finding any brass for the PRC except for Lapua not going there unless I only wanted 20 ,thanks Ron, Happy New Year
Happy New Year, Bruce! Thank you for watching!
Those old belted magnums are fun to reload. Enjoy
Guess I am just old school I was stuck with my 65x55 my 270 and a 300 Win Mag. They have all work just fine for a good number of years
be interesting to hear your thoughts on the new 7mm prc
I find that my .300 Weatherby Mark V is all the .308 diameter/caliber, cartridge/rifle I "need". However, like any self avowed "gun-nut" with a safe full of myriad caliber and configured bangers, I base my next firearm purchase solely on want, and never on need; or an in-the-weeds dissection of conjurable ballistics. If need, or the hottest tack driving laser ray-gun on the planet were the determining factors in any decision to buy or not to buy, my father's .30-06 Mauser action rebuild that I inherited would, be more than sufficient to cover the bases I want or "need" to touch.
The hitting power out of the PRC is enough to knock the snot out of a elk/moose. I’ll take the PRC just for the power and accuracy. Idc if I’m slapping targets at 900 yards.
As always,good job Ron.I do enjoy the 300 Winchester and have used it quiet successfully,but the reason I gravitate to magnums,is not to load light bullets to lightning fast speeds,but instead you can load heavier bullets to better speeds.I am old school in that I believe a long heavy bullet is always better than a shorter,lighter bullet,especially when shooting larger game,or you're on an expensive hunt.With that being said,I would like to,and probably will try a 300PRC.I always wanted to shoot heavier bullets in my win mag,but stayed with 200 gr. Nosler Partition.I really like the idea of having quality 220-250 gr. bullets,and since I am going to be moving to Africa to live,I think this would make a great medium to large game round.Besides,it's always fun to get a new round to play with and experiment with,and yes I do handload,so though it may not be as readily available as the win mag,I can hopefully be able to stockpile enough ammo to the PRC beast.Thanks again,keep up the good work.
Thanks Thomas.
Exactly!
My 300 prc is a dream to shoot. Love it
I've been putting 220 eld-x bullets in my 308 loads on a lighter powder charge. Talk about a neat little piledriver...
I’ve settled on my new cartridge Ron. Gone for a 300 rum, 30 degree neck, unbelted case and seeing the barrel will be new 1:8.5 twist 30 incher. Like a 300prc but more betterer. Give cubby a carrot for me, does their teeth wonders.
The Win Mag is essentially a commodity while the PRC is few and far between.
Easy one, if you're not already invested. 300 PRC for a factory rifle. 300 Win mag for a custom rifle. 300 Win Mag for ammunition availability for hunting.
I'm not invested, and target shoot, so 300 PRC it is for me.
I love your videos...really enjoy the campfire chat approach. The PRC sounds intriguing, but I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze IF you've got a quality .300 WM. I don't currently own either, but as my plan is to build a custom rifle from a 1917 action, I'm not sure if the .300 PRC would work in the standard magazine...merits some research for sure.
Thanks for the info Ron. As a handloader I guess I just have a hard time getting excited about this prc cartridge. The belt on my 300 win mag certainly doesn't bring anything great to the table, but it doesn't hurt anything either. My pet load drives a 212 grain eldx at 2875. The precision hunter 300 prc load claims to send the same bullet at 2860 fps. If I just shot factory ammo, I might sing a different tune
I like the PRC for what it is, I don't own a win mag, and am much more likely to shoot long range than shoot deer or elk, so the PRC fits my most likely need and can fill the freezer in a pinch.
I was mauling over 300 prc or 30 nosler. I went with the 30 nosler and no looking back 😀
@@Kmecha84 nothing wrong with the nosler offerings, from what I've seen on their specs they're speed demons and don't necessarily do heavy for caliber bullets which is kind of where I was leaning (of course you can always have a fully custom rifle made with your own throat specs and magazine length etc)
But my reasoning with the 300PRC was due to the military picking it up (in limited quantities) for long range shooting, and with Hornady being one of the biggest ammo manufacturers in the country and in the world I don't see them letting their own creation die off.
I think 300PRC is going to stick around because honestly it's just a "better" 300WM that can push those heavy bullets just a touch faster without moving to a full magnum length action.
@@Kross8761 the 300 wm is definitely here to stay for the long haul, alot of followers and for good reason. I understand what you're saying with heavy for caliber bullets but how heavy are you wanting to go? 30 Nosler claims 4196 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle with a 210 gr accubond. with the 1:8 twist that it has, it'll shoot heavier bullets no problem. Also nothing wrong with the 300 prc it's a great offering
@@Kmecha84 I'm mostly concerned with muzzle velocity with those heavy bullets, the 212gr is the "light" bullet for 300PRC, and it can go up to 250gr with the appropriate twist rate, but 220-230 is what I'm looking for, and the 300PRC is pushing the 225gr ELD-M at about 2950 out of a 26" barrel which is still supersonic at 2000+ yards and will still reliably expand out to 1600. (At extended ranges, "match" bullets expand at velocities that "hunting" bullets won't, I wouldn't use them closer than 500-600 yards, but past that, they usually perform better than hunting bullets)
I'm less concerned with muzzle energy numbers and more concerned with the velocity that a round requires to reliably expand. You can have an FMJ that has an excellent muzzle energy on paper, but since it doesn't expand it just pencils through and pokes a small hole, meanwhile a bullet that expands magnificently might have a meager raw muzzle energy, but it performs spectacularly.
I agree that the Win Mag is here to stay, and I don't think the PRC is going to "dethrone" it, but I think there are new options that *are* "better", it's just that many people don't need or want or want to PAY for "better"
Ron I love the frost in the beard partner. Such poise such wisdom in that beard
300 PRC is great for long range but for under 400 yards the good old 300 win mag is a great hunting caliber for elk, bear or even deer. I really like the 300 wsm for hunting in a little lighter rifle and because I reload it’s the best all around 300 for my needs! If I were looking for a new gun that 300 PRC would sure be a great 300 to hunt and target shoot combo!
Shouldnt be shooting past 400 yds hunting anyways. Too many variables you cannt control past that. Its called hunting for a reason.
love the content. i would like to see a comparison of all the 300s in the future. i like the 300
Cool video. Thanks for you’re expertise. I know a lot about shooting, and you amaze me. Thx
The 300 Win Mag, when following SAAMI specs, is limited to bullets with a relatively shorter ogive. The SAAMI specs on the PRC allow much longer, sleeker ogives that give it an advantage at long distances. It is not just a matter of the base of the bullet being in the case. With the Win Mag, the most efficient bullets would have the OGIVE down inside the neck of the cartridge. In addition, the jump to the lands would be huge (causing poor accuracy).
This is where things get confusing for some people. Yes, IF the PRC uses the same short-ogived, less aerodynamic bullets as the Win Mag, the performance is fairly close. The PRC, however, is not limited to those bullets and when using long-ogived, high-BC bullets performs better at long range. Factory ammo with these fancy bullets is available.
To further confuse things, many 300 Win Mags are modified from the SAAMI specs in order to perform better at long range. They can be put on longer actions (to use longer-ogived bullets), use faster-twist barrels, and have modified chambers. They require custom ammo to perform at their best, so factory ammo is not an option.
You should check out MarkandSamafterwork on YT. he shoots 250gr out of both of these cartridges at like 3000m(I think) and the 300wm had more impacts.
@@Gunker02 He is not using a SAAMI spec 300Win Mag cartridge or rifle. At about 20 seconds into the 300PRC v 300Win Mag video, there is text that says he is using a 1:9 twist barrel and a cartridge OAL of 3.780" for the 300Win Mag. The SAAMI spec is 1:10 twist for the barrel and 3.34" OAL. There is an image that shows the loaded cartridge and it is much longer than would fit in the magazine of a typical 300Win Mag rifle. Note that he is single loading.
His shooting is still impressive, though!
@@jfess1911 oh ok. Well that makes sense. In that case maybe I will opt for the 300 prc instead. I'm looking hard at the HMR
@@Gunker02 Good luck with your project!
Exactly, Well said J Fess
Right on
Greatly enjoy shooting my 300prc in my HMR with a nomad 30 attached. All day shooter if you can find the ammo or the powder to load it
I love how they always show a 300 WM with the bullet crammed down in the case, like you can't pull the bullet out some and maximize the case capacity
Dan, the reason you see it so crammed down is because SAAMI specs limit overall cartridge length to 3.34". Chambers and throats are reamed to best accommodate that and magazines are often/usually just long enough to fit it. Yes, you can seat bullets out farther, but only if your rifle magazine accepts them (unless you want to hand feed single-shot style) and the bullet doesn't jam into the rifling when chambered. Be careful, handloaders.
one thing you should also mention is that offerings from hornday are pretty cheap for a large cartridge.
I have been loading for the 300 Winchester Mag for years and I shoot out to 1000 yards tournaments and hunting. I won’t shoot past 600 yards hunting. 7:00 I Have found that 180 grain Hornady interbond bullets are a lot more accurate that lower grain bullets
@@lyndseymarieburke1834 im also a fan of heavier bullets in general
Same thing for .270 WSM vs 6.8 Western.... I reload my own ammo, and own a few rifles ("A few??" my wife speaking here... ) but I don't have any 6.8 Western... After looking at the numbers, I am not interested in a 6.8 Western (which is a superb caliber) because I don't see enough advantages over the .270 WSM to change or by another rifle...
Kinda same slight advantages you see in the comparison in Ron’s video. The 6.8 has a longer neck for bullet seating & new factory rifles for 6.8 are 1:7.5 twist to take advantage of 175gn projectiles.
I noticed Browning is chambering the 300 PRC in a magnum action. So here we go full circle right back to the 300 H&H, after half a century.
They gotta get people to CONSOOM and sell new rifles somehow. And people fall for it every couple years. Im not talking about competitive shooters, but your average Joe who shoots 3 times a year to sight in and then a elk or deer under 300 yards. Its amazing how gullible people are really.
I have a 300prc because I walked into a gun shop one day and they had an mrad at between 3-4k and that was the caliber it was in. Traded a bunch of guns as fast as I could.
Lapua is making brass for the win mag and prc. For the people that don’t reload go with the 300 win mag. Loading the 300 prc will take less steps because it is belt less. The Sammi reamer size for the 300 prc need to be revised. Clickers on a few reloads with 300 prc is to commen.
For hunting and ammo availability 300wm. For making money/living from shooting matches 300prc. Its a niche caliber because there really is no difference at ethical hunting ranges. Its only better out past any known ethical range of hunting. Paper and steel targets dont move, animals do.
Great video, very thorough, reasons and purpose for each round is so helpful. Could not find this type of info anywhere. Thank you.
When I wish to use a 300 Mag. I'll stay with my 300 Win Mag.
I really like the 7mm RM over those anyway.
Take care.
one has the issue of magazine length. In Alaska one has the issue of ammo availability in the Bush.
Big deal is twist. just put a barrel on
Good stuff old timer thanks
The 300 W mag I believe has more platforms to fire the round from meaning more diversity in firearms choices. The old standard bolt action is great but many carbine’s and even pistol carbine’s are available. That’s a pretty big plus it gives it a also a option as a home protection and Zombie Apocalypse flash mob diversity.
Another great video sir. 👍👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it
One shot one kill on a bull elk this year with a 300 prc (an inexpensive CVA factory rifle, shooting factory ammo with under 1/2 inch 100yd groups out of the box) …… although, admittedly I quintuple checked that I’d packed my ammo b4 heading out on the trip because you may not find it local for sale.
So pretty much sticking with my 300 wm lol.
Hmm.
My next rifle will be a 6.5 CM AR-10 build.
Will use that for deer and smaller.
My next bolt action build will be something .300 range, either a .300 win mag, .300 PRC, or .300 Norma. Have to see what happens with ammo availability and prices over the next couple years.
The Military is adopting the 300 Norma so Ammo availability should go up and price should come down there eventually. We'll see.