I'm pretty sure new Hyrule takes place on a completely different and distant land that was founded. This is why it doesn't match up because it's not the original Hyrule
I kind of realize I goofed up on that after uploading the video. It’s been a while since I played through spirit tracks. I guess I just always thought the water levels receded. Thank you for correcting me though
7:10 Note that in Spirit Tracks the water level has not receded. New Hyrule was founded in a different land from where Old Hyrule was after Tetra and Link set off on an expedition to find new land to settle.
It’s been years since I played the game, and after uploading the video I realized I made that mistake, although I do believe some of the water receded, but not completely. I could be wrong though
@@Mister_E_Gaming Would be interesting to revisit the Spirit Tracks map with the water level lowered back down to uncover new unique ruins from before the flood.
@@Mister_E_Gaming There is no evidence to support that the water receded, but even if it did, it wouldn't make a difference since New Hyrule is an entirely different continent. It is nowhere near old Hyrule.
I really don't like the Game Theory video that uses a non-canon game as the linchpin for a unified timeline theory that the devs have gone on record as stating they never thought of that possibility. Age of Calamity is indeed a timeline split since it clearly shows an altered series of events.
I think when I do a deeper dive into the grand timeline I think I’ll look at it from one perspective without the noncanon games, and one with the noncanon games, as long as they can fit in and don’t change the timeline. Personally I think it’s interesting that the original hyrule warriors kinda lines up as an explanation for all the different pieces of evidence from each timeline, but I’m curious as to what timeline you think botw and totk are in if you don’t think the timelines converge? I lean towards the child timeline
@@Mister_E_Gaming That sounds like a good approach. To the game's credit, Hyrule Warriors does have a good story that avoids disrupting any lore (AFAIK) and is fairly easy to include in a potential timeline. As for BotW and TotK, I'm torn between child and forgotten timelines. Either one works, but I truly believe as long as Aonuma is in charge he's never going to answer that in any definitive way. Tho, he did imply in one interview that it's definitely NOT connected to the adult timeline.
I always interpreted the game theory video not as saying "This IS canon" but rather as saying "This SHOULD be canon because if it was it would work well for explaining BOTW"
Currently, I think the Forgotten timeline is the most likely placement. Tho, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo puts it in the Child timeline after FSA or very early on after the era of myth before the Zonai re-founded Hyrule.
Yup very possible after FSA For 1 Zelda looks like FSA Zelda with the ponytail big time 2 Ganon eyes are red like FSA Ganondorf the second eyes in the downfall Ganon had white eyes canonically 3 gerudos are shown like in FSA which was the child and only timeline up to breath where gerudos existed 4 map looks like a evolution of FSA and to evolve into what breath map would become 5 the zora and ugly zora would go pretty will after FSA and of the references Twilight princess gave us of the carvings in castle town to what Breath would end up being 6 there is a part in the trailer in 2D side scrolling that looked very reminiscent of FSA lower hyrule castle of the end of that game before falling into Ganondorf the second 7 link is hurting Ganon with sword that doesn’t even resemble the master sword and only other time Ganon was able to be hurt with out the MS was FSA? Hmm?!! 8 the ending of FSA with Zelda room with the triforce shining would go very nicely as a foreshadowing of Tri All this would go very nicely of Zelda qoute of skyward bond and drift in time and ember of twilight Even if timelines Marged the child would still be the main future branch going into But again I could end up being absolutely wrong and Nintendo will just end up doing Whatever since they unfortunately don’t Give a Flying F about story lore anymore But hey will see I already got my preorder for EOW I will reserve my hype and keep a low expectation so I don’t feel disappointed especially after what Tears did.
@@JuilanXAnime3188 Since my original comment, I looked closely at the Gerudo that appear in the second trailer and accompanying websites. I noticed a big clue. They have short pointed ears. Gerudo with pointed ears have only appeared in BotW and TotK. So to me, that solidifies it for me taking place at the beginning of the new timeline after the era of myth.
I think it makes by far the most sense to be placed in one of 4 places. 1. Post LA and Oracles but before ALBW 2. Post TFH but before AoL. 3. And finally Post FSA. 4. Prior to TOTK. Of those I think 1 and 2 are by far the most likely. It make sense for them to reuse and expand the map of Alttp with those placements. It also can easily fit lore wise, with the game being why Ganon was sealed in ALBW if 1 is correct or the setup for the golden era of Hyrule that is mentioned in AOLs manual for number 2. It COULD be post FSA or prior to TOTK but I kinda don't think that's likely. Just feels wrong to me. As for BOTW and TOTKs placement I think they are set millenia after either FSA or AoL. The director of the games has mentioned the refounding of Hyrule theory being plausible, and if that's the case it just doesn't make sense for that to take place anywhere besides after those games. It can't be in the Adult Timeline because Wind Waker destroyed both the Master Sword AND Hyrule. Plus all Zora became Rito and you'd have to jump through hoops to explain why they're 2 groups now.
It looks like we pretty much came to the same conclusions, so I’m glad I’m not alone in my thinking. Although some new information could come out later with the game’s release to throw all these theories out of wack
4:08 I interpret this a little differently. Nintendo isn't saying some of the older games may not have happened. They are saying that they happened so long ago that the characters in the game can't tell what is history, legend, or myth. The devs specifically modeled this aspect of the newer games on the idea that this happens in real life. For example, the story of Troy was thought to be a myth until the remains of the actual city were found in 1871. And the purpose of all this is to essentially do a soft reboot without de-canonizing any of the earlier games. They unhooked canon from the newer games so they can avoid being beholden to it.
That makes sense too. Do you think Echoes of Wisdom will be more connected to botw and totk with the soft reboot if they are going that route? Placing it on that part of the timeline rather than the other parts?
@@Mister_E_Gaming I honestly don't think we have enough information to say for sure yet, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is. The thing that has me thinking they might, is the mountains to the north-east. They correspond to Mt. Hebra in Zelda 3 but they are colored in grey with a snowy climate similar to both Hebra and Mount Lanayru as they appeared in the latest games. One thing's for sure. I can't wait to play the game and find out more!
A good rule of thumb for Zelda Theories is to take all geographical and graphical evidence with a grain of salt (more like a spoonful). The devs have stated multiple times that they recycle graphics from the previous game they made for convenience without consideration of story or lore. And the same goes for geography which they make arbitrary changes to just to keep the maps interesting. (TotK being based on ideas for DLC is an exception to that rule to a certain degree.) So for the most part, the graphics are due to reusing the Link's Awakening remake engine and the geography is due to reusing and expanding the ALttP map.
Yes that is true. Although certain maps do have connections with each other that are supposed to be connected, like link between worlds lining up with link to the past. I’m not exactly sure how well twilight princess and wind waker line up with ocarina of time though, even though they aren’t too far apart in the timeline
@@Mister_E_Gaming Indeed. Direct sequels that take place in the same location do tend to share base maps as is natural. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess seem to match up pretty well with Ocarina with some differences. Another thing to take into consideration is scale. To the best of my knowledge not one single map is a 1:1 representation of their fictional "reality". The one I consider closest to that is BotW/TotK since we know it was loosely based on Kyoto (IIRC) but was scaled down by half because things felt too far apart. Personally I'm hoping the next big open-air Zelda title is at least the original size they were going to use for BotW with the clock extended so the day/night cycle feels more significant.
I agree with the timeline placement. It seems like the most logical choice. Also, Wind Waker is such a good game! The artstyle is fantastic and still holds up today
I don't know if this will help or just muddy the waters more, but Spirit Tracks Hyrule is supposed to be a completely different land that was named Hyrule in honor of the original Hyrule that was destroyed in the flood.
I kinda realized I goofed when I was in the late stages of editing and uploading the video for that point. It’s been quite a few years since I played spirit tracks and I guess I always assumed it was the same land, just after the water levels receded. It doesn’t really muddy the waters too much though, just kind of further solidifies it not being in that timeline. I appreciate the correction though!
I always considered the 3 timelines to be more representative of the 3 triforce pieces being split. Link dying is more or less symptomatic of the original 2 timelines. When Zelda sends link back, it splits the timeline into one representing courage (Link's child timeline) and one wisdom (Zelda's Adult timeline). The fallen hero timeline is just the universe balancing itself out with the creation of a third timeline to represent power. Yes I know the triforce still exists in all 3, but removing a representative of one aspect would cause issues. We even see that in wind waker.
That’s a pretty interesting take, but it’s a cool concept! I can’t say I’ve heard that one before but it does make sense. Do you think botw and totk is representative of them coming back together?
Yup not only that but people have absolutely missed this very crazy timeline reference to lore which is why I say Nintendo knew what there were doing back then because ITS TO DAMN PERFECT Adult - BLUE WATER flood 🌊 wisdom nayru link is removed Child - Green prosperity 🌳 courage faroe link exist to protect Downfall - RED 🔥 destruction power DIN link is defeated Ganon wins Yeah there is no way Nintendo just made that with out knowing NO WAY IN HELL
The new zelda's design is almost the same as adult zelda from ocarina of time. I was thinking maybe they released a game between ocarina of time and a link to the past. I doubt it, tho since I can't trust nintendo's design choice like that.
So many of the Zelda designs are super similar to each other with very slight differences. I couldn’t find one that was one for one. The closest designs were the adult version in ocarina, and the oracle games, in my opinion
I think it's going to be a prequel to Link's Awakening, and retcon that Link's origin as this one. Ganon has a 2-sided trident, like the nightmare of his does, something he lacks in Alttp.
I also noticed that there’s only been a couple iterations of him where he’s had the 2-sided trident. And since they’ve moved stuff around before with the official timeline I could definitely see them doing that. I didn’t even consider them possibly separating incarnations of Link like that
I just feel like pointing out something people rarely notice. In the prologue to Minish Cap, there is a stain glass inage that appears to depict Ganon. Which completely throws out the idea that the Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time is the first incarnation of the character in the timeline. Which MEANS there's absolutely nothing stopping us from placing any game with a DIFFERENT Ganon/Ganondorf BEFORE OoT. I suppose it's possible that it's a different being altogether, after all, Malladus, the Demon King from Spirit Tracks also takes on a pig-like beast form, but... He's still the Demon King, just like Demise, and just like Ganondorf became. Sure, we know that people can become demons, as Vaati also did so, but would Malladus be a separate Demon King from Ganon and Demise, or the same Demon King in a new form and under a new name?
Well I think Vaati is described as a demon too sometimes, but not a demon king, so that adds to it. In that stained glass that creature is next to an octorok and some keese. I always assumed it was just depicting a moblin because it’s red, and Ganon/ganondorf has never been shown as a red pig form like that before. I could be wrong though
@@Mister_E_Gaming Vaati is only described as a demon, but it's important to note because if anyone can become a demon, then it's possible someone can become a demon king. But it could actually be a moblin, though. The story is about the origin of monsters, after all. But at the same time, I still think due to the sheer size of the pig in the image, that it would be more important than a moblin or anything else. I could be wrong, though.
@@Normal-Ladit says everything about someone's opinion and tolerance for low quality. It also says that they're not worth listening to about Zelda because they have brain rot.
When tears of the kingdom first came out I assumed it was the story of 10,000 years prior, but then I realized it didn’t line up with the tapestry. After I was done with my video I realized my mistake, but I appreciate the correction from you!
It is my theory that the Breath of the Wild trilogy is on a completely separate timeline from the one we know. There are multiple discrepancies that prevent those games from fitting anywhere in the classic timeline.
@@greatcanyonxatu253 They are after Oot timeline this is confirmed both by the Zora monument in Botw and Aonuma, source Game informer March 2017 page 48 and there aren´t multiple discrepancies, every time someone has said this it is that they misunderstand something about the lore and not an actually discrepancies.
@@Ahouro I never said it wasn't a similar timeline. In this new one, all the games still happened, just with various differences here and there. For example: Link must have kept the Master Sword after Wind Waker, and not leaving it behind in Ganondorf's forehead, otherwise it couldn't have been present in the future. Additionally, if Breath of the Wild was really that far flung into the future, there wouldn't still be remains of Lon Lon Ranch from Ocarina of Time.
@@cellisch3753 go to 4:09 in the video. The era of prosperity takes place after all the games except for BOTW and TOTK, according to official timeline material from Nintendo
Ive given up on "a handful of timelines" and just accepted that we have a Zelda multiverse. Two timelines alone, by definition already means there is not one universe, not one timeline. I think at some point (rather early on) Nintendo wanted to maintain "one collection of timelines" but since that book came out - the games have expanded so much.
I feel like in recent times, timelines and universes have been conflated, but they shouldn’t be. Like in the Flash tv show, they differentiate the two, as the Flash rewrote the timeline and nobody in that timeline remembered things from the previous one, but people from the parallel universes remembered stuff from the previous timeline when they were there. It gets all sorts of mixed up and confusing
@@Mister_E_Gaming So true. Sonic Prime did great solidifying my already more science based ideas about Shatterverses, while "timeline" is a really dumb energy-from-nothing theory that a new world just pops into existence randomly, and has a copied history, that somehow FOLLOWS into both at the same time. Even a theory so dumb should just postulate two dimensions, that were identical up to a point. My idea on Zelda is that Downfall timeline really just is "the timeline" insofar fans need one to exist. OoT link was not even meant to be born and those Adult/Child timelines are ADDITIONAL spinoffs working entirely a lot like Link's awakening. As their directorial vision starts taking a lot from that conversation with Capcom staff (like the current director Fujibayashi), and from The Flight of Dragons 1987 as a crutch. It's a lot like giving Donkey Kong Country away to Western developers. Sort of paradoxically, the strong continuity with ooT related games is because THOSE are the odd ones out. It's not linear, it's parallel, when they say "might not exist". OoT Ganondorf might not exist DURING the existence of TotK Ganondorf bowing to King rauru. Wind Waker might not exist because that is parallel to Awakening. Howeve in the ACTUAL canon I rationalize they still integrated it. And that is through Ganondorf. HE DOES travel between these alterantive timelines, or sinks into Zelda's dream like Zelda was the wind Wish. OoT is Zelda's worry about the evil dark man, and doesn't ACTUALLY happen because it only exists for Link, the player. She in her premonition then has him sealed to Sacred Realm, which IS Wind Waker, the holding PLACE of Triforce. This takes place in the dragon Hoju inside the brain of Dark Dragon Ganondorf. so it's a lot like inception, Mummy Ganondorf DREAMS the world where OoT Hyrule falls to ruin by his hand, and that DREAMT Zelda, dreams that Adult timeline even happens. These are somewhat real events, because this sort of telepathy is the Godly power of Hylia to recognize, that's the root concept in "the Legend." Zelda records these events in her heart whether they "happen" or not. She is the shroedinger's cat here, in the ACTUAL meaning Shroedinger intended his metaphor. It's a direct callback to George Lucas reporting that Star Wars is the story of Princess Leia, as a reponse tot he fact that American cowboy myth that Lucas draws from comes from Akira Kurosawa's movies like Rashomon and The Sven Samurai, or perhaps it was the Magnificent Seven.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 there’s so much there that if that really were true, most fans probably wouldn’t be able to comprehend all of that. If they did go that route though it would be super interesting to have a ganondorf focused game with all of that tied into it
I was assuming this game takes place exact same time as Links Awakening. That Ganon fight is at the end of LTTP and falling into the void sends him into some kind of dream world (koholint)
That wouldn’t make sense though due to Link’s awakening taking place entirely while he’s out at sea. He gets into a ship wreck, passes out and gets stuck in the dream of the Wind Fish, then wakes up, and he’s still at sea floating on some debris
@@jeremythetechguy at the end of Link’s Awakening it shows him waking up, still at sea, so unless it’s a giant inception type of deal, but there’s nothing to suggest that right now
Discounting the Adult Timeline because the Zora evolved into the Rito makes no sense, since Tears of the Kingdom shows both species existing at the founding of Hyrule.
That’s a fair point but because of the story of the Rito in that timeline, the tears of the kingdom founding of hyrule seems like a re-founding many years closer to the end of the timeline, kind of similar to the founding of new hyrule in spirit tracks
We don't know if the Zonai era is after the rest of the games, if anything the evidence in game would suggest it's actually just the original founding of Hyrule, after Skyward Sword, but before everything else. Moreover the appearance of the Gerudo and Sheikah in Echoes of Wisdom implies it's closer to the current day of BOTW than far, so it's likely after the Zonai era wherever it is.
That’s very true. The main thing that makes me thinks the past section of tears of the kingdom, is strictly due to the appearance of the Rito species, and they don’t exist until after the flood in wind waker
Yeah, no. The official reasoning for the "Fallen" timeline (I prefer calling it the "Forgotten" timeline) makes no damn sense. There are a couple of better ideas for how the Forgotten Timeline makes sense.
@@BinknotLink Nintendo never said that Link was killed in that fight, just defeated and because of Link´s defeat we know that Ganondorf got the full Tri-force which would differ from the other two splits.
@@Ahouro I don't know how many times I've pointed that out, but people keep saying he dies. Regardless, it's still arbitrary and doesn't reflect anything that actually happens in the game. Especially since there are still at least 3 points at which they had a opportunity for better explanations. 1 - Skyward Sword has an untapped split due to time travel shenanigans. 2 - Minish Cap has an actual canonical "bad ending" event if you don't reach the last boss in time to save Zelda. Not as clear cut, but at least it ties to a solid game over screen. 3 - Ocarina of Time has exactly 1 point at which you must travel back to Link's Childhood in order to progress in the game. It isn't as solid, but it at least corresponds to something every player MUST do to finish the game. However it's almost as sloppy as "Link is defeated" since it implied that every time you travel back and forth through time, a new timeline is created where the Hero is gone. BONUS - Since Zelda II has a canonical "Game Over" screen where Link fails to stop Ganon from being resurrected, there's an opportunity there for Nintendo to do another timeline split. But again it's a sloppy one.
Personally I think the style has grown on me. Do you think a hd-2d style would’ve been better? With dx being a Gameboy game it might’ve not translated over well to the switch unless they beefed up the art a little bit, although I do love links awakening dx
I'm pretty sure new Hyrule takes place on a completely different and distant land that was founded.
This is why it doesn't match up because it's not the original Hyrule
I kind of realize I goofed up on that after uploading the video. It’s been a while since I played through spirit tracks. I guess I just always thought the water levels receded. Thank you for correcting me though
7:10 Note that in Spirit Tracks the water level has not receded. New Hyrule was founded in a different land from where Old Hyrule was after Tetra and Link set off on an expedition to find new land to settle.
It’s been years since I played the game, and after uploading the video I realized I made that mistake, although I do believe some of the water receded, but not completely. I could be wrong though
@@Mister_E_Gaming Would be interesting to revisit the Spirit Tracks map with the water level lowered back down to uncover new unique ruins from before the flood.
@@Mister_E_Gaming There is no evidence to support that the water receded, but even if it did, it wouldn't make a difference since New Hyrule is an entirely different continent. It is nowhere near old Hyrule.
I'm fairly certain that the weapons we saw link use in the trailer were purposely generic blue weapons that weren't meant to signify anything.
That’s very possible, but it’s weird he used a generic blue sword to fight ganon
I really don't like the Game Theory video that uses a non-canon game as the linchpin for a unified timeline theory that the devs have gone on record as stating they never thought of that possibility.
Age of Calamity is indeed a timeline split since it clearly shows an altered series of events.
I think when I do a deeper dive into the grand timeline I think I’ll look at it from one perspective without the noncanon games, and one with the noncanon games, as long as they can fit in and don’t change the timeline. Personally I think it’s interesting that the original hyrule warriors kinda lines up as an explanation for all the different pieces of evidence from each timeline, but I’m curious as to what timeline you think botw and totk are in if you don’t think the timelines converge? I lean towards the child timeline
@@Mister_E_Gaming That sounds like a good approach.
To the game's credit, Hyrule Warriors does have a good story that avoids disrupting any lore (AFAIK) and is fairly easy to include in a potential timeline.
As for BotW and TotK, I'm torn between child and forgotten timelines. Either one works, but I truly believe as long as Aonuma is in charge he's never going to answer that in any definitive way. Tho, he did imply in one interview that it's definitely NOT connected to the adult timeline.
I always interpreted the game theory video not as saying "This IS canon" but rather as saying "This SHOULD be canon because if it was it would work well for explaining BOTW"
@@Articfoxgamez that’s kind of how I interpreted it too, and personally I think it would be cool if the non-canon games could fit into the timeline
This game actually takes place in the “we don’t even care about the story anymore” timeline, confirmed by eiji aonuma
Honestly, I wouldn’t doubt that lol
Currently, I think the Forgotten timeline is the most likely placement. Tho, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo puts it in the Child timeline after FSA or very early on after the era of myth before the Zonai re-founded Hyrule.
Yup very possible after FSA
For
1 Zelda looks like FSA Zelda with the ponytail big time
2 Ganon eyes are red like FSA Ganondorf the second eyes in the downfall Ganon had white eyes canonically
3 gerudos are shown like in FSA which was the child and only timeline up to breath where gerudos existed
4 map looks like a evolution of FSA and to evolve into what breath map would become
5 the zora and ugly zora would go pretty will after FSA and of the references Twilight princess gave us of the carvings in castle town to what Breath would end up being
6 there is a part in the trailer in 2D side scrolling that looked very reminiscent of FSA lower hyrule castle of the end of that game before falling into Ganondorf the second
7 link is hurting Ganon with sword that doesn’t even resemble the master sword and only other time Ganon was able to be hurt with out the MS was FSA? Hmm?!!
8 the ending of FSA with Zelda room with the triforce shining would go very nicely as a foreshadowing of Tri
All this would go very nicely of Zelda qoute of skyward bond and drift in time and ember of twilight
Even if timelines Marged the child would still be the main future branch going into
But again I could end up being absolutely wrong and Nintendo will just end up doing Whatever since they unfortunately don’t Give a Flying F about story lore anymore
But hey will see I already got my preorder for EOW I will reserve my hype and keep a low expectation so I don’t feel disappointed especially after what Tears did.
@@JuilanXAnime3188 Since my original comment, I looked closely at the Gerudo that appear in the second trailer and accompanying websites.
I noticed a big clue.
They have short pointed ears.
Gerudo with pointed ears have only appeared in BotW and TotK.
So to me, that solidifies it for me taking place at the beginning of the new timeline after the era of myth.
great video. Keep making Zelda theories.
@@colinsilver7225 thank you man! I really appreciate it!
Since it’s the same engine of Links Awakening it should be sequel to links Awakening but in hyrule
It’s possible, but the story with Link Between Worlds makes me think it can’t happen in between
I think it makes by far the most sense to be placed in one of 4 places.
1. Post LA and Oracles but before ALBW
2. Post TFH but before AoL.
3. And finally Post FSA.
4. Prior to TOTK.
Of those I think 1 and 2 are by far the most likely. It make sense for them to reuse and expand the map of Alttp with those placements. It also can easily fit lore wise, with the game being why Ganon was sealed in ALBW if 1 is correct or the setup for the golden era of Hyrule that is mentioned in AOLs manual for number 2. It COULD be post FSA or prior to TOTK but I kinda don't think that's likely. Just feels wrong to me.
As for BOTW and TOTKs placement I think they are set millenia after either FSA or AoL. The director of the games has mentioned the refounding of Hyrule theory being plausible, and if that's the case it just doesn't make sense for that to take place anywhere besides after those games. It can't be in the Adult Timeline because Wind Waker destroyed both the Master Sword AND Hyrule. Plus all Zora became Rito and you'd have to jump through hoops to explain why they're 2 groups now.
It looks like we pretty much came to the same conclusions, so I’m glad I’m not alone in my thinking. Although some new information could come out later with the game’s release to throw all these theories out of wack
You speak very well. Subscribed!
Thank you! I appreciate the compliment and subscription!
Interesting
4:08 I interpret this a little differently. Nintendo isn't saying some of the older games may not have happened. They are saying that they happened so long ago that the characters in the game can't tell what is history, legend, or myth.
The devs specifically modeled this aspect of the newer games on the idea that this happens in real life. For example, the story of Troy was thought to be a myth until the remains of the actual city were found in 1871.
And the purpose of all this is to essentially do a soft reboot without de-canonizing any of the earlier games. They unhooked canon from the newer games so they can avoid being beholden to it.
That makes sense too. Do you think Echoes of Wisdom will be more connected to botw and totk with the soft reboot if they are going that route? Placing it on that part of the timeline rather than the other parts?
@@Mister_E_Gaming I honestly don't think we have enough information to say for sure yet, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is.
The thing that has me thinking they might, is the mountains to the north-east. They correspond to Mt. Hebra in Zelda 3 but they are colored in grey with a snowy climate similar to both Hebra and Mount Lanayru as they appeared in the latest games.
One thing's for sure.
I can't wait to play the game and find out more!
A good rule of thumb for Zelda Theories is to take all geographical and graphical evidence with a grain of salt (more like a spoonful).
The devs have stated multiple times that they recycle graphics from the previous game they made for convenience without consideration of story or lore. And the same goes for geography which they make arbitrary changes to just to keep the maps interesting. (TotK being based on ideas for DLC is an exception to that rule to a certain degree.)
So for the most part, the graphics are due to reusing the Link's Awakening remake engine and the geography is due to reusing and expanding the ALttP map.
Yes that is true. Although certain maps do have connections with each other that are supposed to be connected, like link between worlds lining up with link to the past. I’m not exactly sure how well twilight princess and wind waker line up with ocarina of time though, even though they aren’t too far apart in the timeline
@@Mister_E_Gaming Indeed. Direct sequels that take place in the same location do tend to share base maps as is natural.
Wind Waker and Twilight Princess seem to match up pretty well with Ocarina with some differences.
Another thing to take into consideration is scale. To the best of my knowledge not one single map is a 1:1 representation of their fictional "reality". The one I consider closest to that is BotW/TotK since we know it was loosely based on Kyoto (IIRC) but was scaled down by half because things felt too far apart.
Personally I'm hoping the next big open-air Zelda title is at least the original size they were going to use for BotW with the clock extended so the day/night cycle feels more significant.
@@TrueKoalaKnight yes. It’s like I said in the video with the four swords adventures map, where it’s a more stylized version of the map
It could be at the end of the timeline were it would merge the timelines together then lead to the botw games
That’s very possible!
I think Echoes of Wisdom should take place in the Downfall Timeline. Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda game.
I agree with the timeline placement. It seems like the most logical choice. Also, Wind Waker is such a good game! The artstyle is fantastic and still holds up today
I don't know if this will help or just muddy the waters more, but Spirit Tracks Hyrule is supposed to be a completely different land that was named Hyrule in honor of the original Hyrule that was destroyed in the flood.
I kinda realized I goofed when I was in the late stages of editing and uploading the video for that point. It’s been quite a few years since I played spirit tracks and I guess I always assumed it was the same land, just after the water levels receded. It doesn’t really muddy the waters too much though, just kind of further solidifies it not being in that timeline. I appreciate the correction though!
W man keep grinding
Thank you man! I appreciate that!
I always considered the 3 timelines to be more representative of the 3 triforce pieces being split. Link dying is more or less symptomatic of the original 2 timelines. When Zelda sends link back, it splits the timeline into one representing courage (Link's child timeline) and one wisdom (Zelda's Adult timeline). The fallen hero timeline is just the universe balancing itself out with the creation of a third timeline to represent power. Yes I know the triforce still exists in all 3, but removing a representative of one aspect would cause issues. We even see that in wind waker.
That’s a pretty interesting take, but it’s a cool concept! I can’t say I’ve heard that one before but it does make sense. Do you think botw and totk is representative of them coming back together?
@@Mister_E_Gaming yeah I always Considered those two games to be after the timeline repairs itself somehow.
Yup not only that but people have absolutely missed this very crazy timeline reference to lore which is why I say Nintendo knew what there were doing back then because ITS TO DAMN PERFECT
Adult - BLUE WATER flood 🌊 wisdom nayru link is removed
Child - Green prosperity 🌳 courage faroe link exist to protect
Downfall - RED 🔥 destruction power DIN link is defeated Ganon wins
Yeah there is no way Nintendo just made that with out knowing NO WAY IN HELL
The new zelda's design is almost the same as adult zelda from ocarina of time. I was thinking maybe they released a game between ocarina of time and a link to the past. I doubt it, tho since I can't trust nintendo's design choice like that.
So many of the Zelda designs are super similar to each other with very slight differences. I couldn’t find one that was one for one. The closest designs were the adult version in ocarina, and the oracle games, in my opinion
I think it's going to be a prequel to Link's Awakening, and retcon that Link's origin as this one. Ganon has a 2-sided trident, like the nightmare of his does, something he lacks in Alttp.
I also noticed that there’s only been a couple iterations of him where he’s had the 2-sided trident. And since they’ve moved stuff around before with the official timeline I could definitely see them doing that. I didn’t even consider them possibly separating incarnations of Link like that
I just feel like pointing out something people rarely notice. In the prologue to Minish Cap, there is a stain glass inage that appears to depict Ganon. Which completely throws out the idea that the Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time is the first incarnation of the character in the timeline. Which MEANS there's absolutely nothing stopping us from placing any game with a DIFFERENT Ganon/Ganondorf BEFORE OoT.
I suppose it's possible that it's a different being altogether, after all, Malladus, the Demon King from Spirit Tracks also takes on a pig-like beast form, but... He's still the Demon King, just like Demise, and just like Ganondorf became. Sure, we know that people can become demons, as Vaati also did so, but would Malladus be a separate Demon King from Ganon and Demise, or the same Demon King in a new form and under a new name?
Well I think Vaati is described as a demon too sometimes, but not a demon king, so that adds to it. In that stained glass that creature is next to an octorok and some keese. I always assumed it was just depicting a moblin because it’s red, and Ganon/ganondorf has never been shown as a red pig form like that before. I could be wrong though
@@Mister_E_Gaming Vaati is only described as a demon, but it's important to note because if anyone can become a demon, then it's possible someone can become a demon king.
But it could actually be a moblin, though. The story is about the origin of monsters, after all. But at the same time, I still think due to the sheer size of the pig in the image, that it would be more important than a moblin or anything else. I could be wrong, though.
On the fourth timeline called the convoluted timeline.
Makes sense 😂
When he said he usally explains Fortnite lore I immediately went "nah bro"💀
Why?
@@Mister_E_Gamingbecause fortnite is a god-awful game
@Rincewind19 so other people can't like it ? How does thay effect this video
@@Normal-Ladit says everything about someone's opinion and tolerance for low quality. It also says that they're not worth listening to about Zelda because they have brain rot.
@@Rincewind19Hello fellow Wizzard.
Breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom timeline takes place after the 3
Yes, that’s what I said in my video! 😁
@@Mister_E_Gaming and what about Hyrule warriors
@@thomasjohnson8391 currently those are noncanon, but I did mention them in my video too!
Bro the stock photo of balloons is impeccable.
I assume you have to be talking about the framed picture on my wall. I appreciate it man! 😂
indeed. balloons are cool :)
It takes place after Zelda: Wand of Gamelon.
That’s the only timeline where Zelda can be playable
Totk past don´t happens 10,000 years before Botw, 10,000 years is when the tapestry happen, Totk past happens earlier than that.
When tears of the kingdom first came out I assumed it was the story of 10,000 years prior, but then I realized it didn’t line up with the tapestry. After I was done with my video I realized my mistake, but I appreciate the correction from you!
It is my theory that the Breath of the Wild trilogy is on a completely separate timeline from the one we know. There are multiple discrepancies that prevent those games from fitting anywhere in the classic timeline.
@@greatcanyonxatu253 that’s also very true. I hope with the new master works book we get more of an explanation on the timeline
@@greatcanyonxatu253 They are after Oot timeline this is confirmed both by the Zora monument in Botw and Aonuma, source Game informer March 2017 page 48 and there aren´t multiple discrepancies, every time someone has said this it is that they misunderstand something about the lore and not an actually discrepancies.
@@Ahouro I never said it wasn't a similar timeline. In this new one, all the games still happened, just with various differences here and there. For example: Link must have kept the Master Sword after Wind Waker, and not leaving it behind in Ganondorf's forehead, otherwise it couldn't have been present in the future. Additionally, if Breath of the Wild was really that far flung into the future, there wouldn't still be remains of Lon Lon Ranch from Ocarina of Time.
Zelda’s design in Echoes of Wisdom is actually pretty similar to the Oracle Games
That’s what I was thinking it seemed the closest to out of all the other designs, but there are still a few differences
This is a terrible angle to take video from. I do appreciate a good theory either way though 😊
What’s terrible about it?
Why do you keep calling it the era of prosperity? Ain't that the one between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap
@@cellisch3753 go to 4:09 in the video. The era of prosperity takes place after all the games except for BOTW and TOTK, according to official timeline material from Nintendo
@@Mister_E_GamingThen there are two eras of prosperity now apparently
Ive given up on "a handful of timelines" and just accepted that we have a Zelda multiverse. Two timelines alone, by definition already means there is not one universe, not one timeline. I think at some point (rather early on) Nintendo wanted to maintain "one collection of timelines" but since that book came out - the games have expanded so much.
I feel like in recent times, timelines and universes have been conflated, but they shouldn’t be. Like in the Flash tv show, they differentiate the two, as the Flash rewrote the timeline and nobody in that timeline remembered things from the previous one, but people from the parallel universes remembered stuff from the previous timeline when they were there. It gets all sorts of mixed up and confusing
@@Mister_E_Gaming So true. Sonic Prime did great solidifying my already more science based ideas about Shatterverses, while "timeline" is a really dumb energy-from-nothing theory that a new world just pops into existence randomly, and has a copied history, that somehow FOLLOWS into both at the same time. Even a theory so dumb should just postulate two dimensions, that were identical up to a point.
My idea on Zelda is that Downfall timeline really just is "the timeline" insofar fans need one to exist. OoT link was not even meant to be born and those Adult/Child timelines are ADDITIONAL spinoffs working entirely a lot like Link's awakening. As their directorial vision starts taking a lot from that conversation with Capcom staff (like the current director Fujibayashi), and from The Flight of Dragons 1987 as a crutch. It's a lot like giving Donkey Kong Country away to Western developers. Sort of paradoxically, the strong continuity with ooT related games is because THOSE are the odd ones out.
It's not linear, it's parallel, when they say "might not exist". OoT Ganondorf might not exist DURING the existence of TotK Ganondorf bowing to King rauru. Wind Waker might not exist because that is parallel to Awakening.
Howeve in the ACTUAL canon I rationalize they still integrated it. And that is through Ganondorf. HE DOES travel between these alterantive timelines, or sinks into Zelda's dream like Zelda was the wind Wish. OoT is Zelda's worry about the evil dark man, and doesn't ACTUALLY happen because it only exists for Link, the player. She in her premonition then has him sealed to Sacred Realm, which IS Wind Waker, the holding PLACE of Triforce. This takes place in the dragon Hoju inside the brain of Dark Dragon Ganondorf. so it's a lot like inception, Mummy Ganondorf DREAMS the world where OoT Hyrule falls to ruin by his hand, and that DREAMT Zelda, dreams that Adult timeline even happens. These are somewhat real events, because this sort of telepathy is the Godly power of Hylia to recognize, that's the root concept in "the Legend." Zelda records these events in her heart whether they "happen" or not. She is the shroedinger's cat here, in the ACTUAL meaning Shroedinger intended his metaphor. It's a direct callback to George Lucas reporting that Star Wars is the story of Princess Leia, as a reponse tot he fact that American cowboy myth that Lucas draws from comes from Akira Kurosawa's movies like Rashomon and The Sven Samurai, or perhaps it was the Magnificent Seven.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 there’s so much there that if that really were true, most fans probably wouldn’t be able to comprehend all of that. If they did go that route though it would be super interesting to have a ganondorf focused game with all of that tied into it
I was assuming this game takes place exact same time as Links Awakening. That Ganon fight is at the end of LTTP and falling into the void sends him into some kind of dream world (koholint)
This game is what’s happening in Hyrule while Link is off dreaming. That would also explain the same art style.
That wouldn’t make sense though due to Link’s awakening taking place entirely while he’s out at sea. He gets into a ship wreck, passes out and gets stuck in the dream of the Wind Fish, then wakes up, and he’s still at sea floating on some debris
@@Mister_E_Gaming or is the whole “out at sea” thing part of the dream?
@@jeremythetechguy at the end of Link’s Awakening it shows him waking up, still at sea, so unless it’s a giant inception type of deal, but there’s nothing to suggest that right now
@@Mister_E_Gaming ahh man you’re right. Damn that would have been cool.
Discounting the Adult Timeline because the Zora evolved into the Rito makes no sense, since Tears of the Kingdom shows both species existing at the founding of Hyrule.
That’s a fair point but because of the story of the Rito in that timeline, the tears of the kingdom founding of hyrule seems like a re-founding many years closer to the end of the timeline, kind of similar to the founding of new hyrule in spirit tracks
@@Mister_E_Gaming Nothing in the game suggests a re-founding. It's quite clear that there was never a Hyrule before Rauru founded it.
@PenneySounds actually, the director of the game, Hidemaro Fujibayashi, suggest that it is the refounding and gives credence to that theory
@@Mister_E_Gaming Then how is there a sage in OOT named after that founding king?
How do you know King Rauru wasn’t actually named after the sage?
We don't know if the Zonai era is after the rest of the games, if anything the evidence in game would suggest it's actually just the original founding of Hyrule, after Skyward Sword, but before everything else.
Moreover the appearance of the Gerudo and Sheikah in Echoes of Wisdom implies it's closer to the current day of BOTW than far, so it's likely after the Zonai era wherever it is.
That’s very true. The main thing that makes me thinks the past section of tears of the kingdom, is strictly due to the appearance of the Rito species, and they don’t exist until after the flood in wind waker
the devs did say that it is a possibility for Hyrule to be destroyed and re founded
and that's what i believe to have happened
@@BinknotLink I believe that too. It’s kind of similar to Spirit Tracks where they founded New Hyrule
Yeah, no. The official reasoning for the "Fallen" timeline (I prefer calling it the "Forgotten" timeline) makes no damn sense. There are a couple of better ideas for how the Forgotten Timeline makes sense.
yeah according to the fallen timeline anytime link dies in a game a new timeline would be created
@@BinknotLink Nintendo never said that Link was killed in that fight, just defeated and because of Link´s defeat we know that Ganondorf got the full Tri-force which would differ from the other two splits.
@@Ahouro I don't know how many times I've pointed that out, but people keep saying he dies. Regardless, it's still arbitrary and doesn't reflect anything that actually happens in the game. Especially since there are still at least 3 points at which they had a opportunity for better explanations.
1 - Skyward Sword has an untapped split due to time travel shenanigans.
2 - Minish Cap has an actual canonical "bad ending" event if you don't reach the last boss in time to save Zelda. Not as clear cut, but at least it ties to a solid game over screen.
3 - Ocarina of Time has exactly 1 point at which you must travel back to Link's Childhood in order to progress in the game. It isn't as solid, but it at least corresponds to something every player MUST do to finish the game. However it's almost as sloppy as "Link is defeated" since it implied that every time you travel back and forth through time, a new timeline is created where the Hero is gone.
BONUS - Since Zelda II has a canonical "Game Over" screen where Link fails to stop Ganon from being resurrected, there's an opportunity there for Nintendo to do another timeline split. But again it's a sloppy one.
how about a timeline where it didn't look like that stupid links awakening remake and looked more like zelda dx.
Personally I think the style has grown on me. Do you think a hd-2d style would’ve been better? With dx being a Gameboy game it might’ve not translated over well to the switch unless they beefed up the art a little bit, although I do love links awakening dx