On Nov 5, 2022 EVgo sent me a message with subject "EV Fast Charging Station Decommissioning Notice" saying "You’ve previously charged at Walmart in Huntington Beach. Unfortunately, due to circumstances outside of our control, our chargers at this location will be removed from service as of Tuesday, November 8." Only 3 days notice! This was the nearest and oldest EVgo station to me and it was completely removed! The charging parking spots were quickly turned into more curbside reserved pickup parking! Also, the EVgo to the north of me also at the Walmart in Garden Grove was also removed sometime in Nov 2022. Both of these EVgo stations were both built late 2016 or early 2017 with 2 DC Fast plugs (50kW) ABB units and 1 Level 2 plug. I assume EVgo's lease expired. The next nearest EVgo station is in a strip mall and has been down for many months! EA built two stations near me. The closet in the Bank of America parking lot. It has 4 plugs but usually only 1 or NONE are working! The one further away is in the Target parking lot. That one has 6 plugs but usually only 3 are working.
Thanks! That's unfortunate. It's pretty interesting that EVgo's total site count is stable, but that means that the number of sites they are decommissioning is completely offsetting the number of new Ultium Ready sites they are putting in.
@@newscoulomb3705 This week I received 2 email messages from EVgo with subject "Check out the new EVgo station near you". Both new stations are in CHASE Bank Parking lots about 10-11 Miles from me (vs less than 1 mile from my house for the old Walmart site). Both sites have 1-2 350kW Stations and 2 100kW Stations. Sat 3/4: 1x 350kW, 2x 100kW, 10 Miles in Cypress, CA Tue 3/7: 2x 350kW, 2x 100kW, 11 Miles in Los Alamitos, CA
@@mikekimura2532 Thanks for the heads up! I seem to recall a few CHASE banks with EVgo sites. If that's a lasting partnership, it will be great for their urban support sites.
I think it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Realistically, Tesla could have made hundreds of millions of dollars by now if they started opening their Superchargers 5 to 6 years ago, but hundreds of millions isn't billions. I'm going to visit one of the unlocked Superchargers soon, and I'm going to give some deeper thoughts on the issue. Regardless, it's a huge net benefit, and Tesla deserves accolades for opening the Superchargers (regardless of their motivation). However, there are still some issues with the rollout, and it might not be the "game changer" that some people believe it is.
Hey Eric, have you noticed that on PlugShare quite a few of the future 'coming soon' DC fast charger locations are being removed? I think it's because some EV drivers are complaining that the sites aren't in the ground yet because they don't understand or know how to toggle off the sites with the wrench icon. The future sites being removed on PlugShare is a major disservice to the EV community for those of us looking to the future and anticipating easier EV road tripping. Notably in Kansas along I-70 nearly all of the future sites were removed. Luckily throughout my home state of New Mexico, all of the future sites are still listed and I've visited most of them to take drone photos and update people on the progress.
I have seen that before, but I'm not sure that's from people complaining about the "Coming Soon" sites. I know people do complain, but I think they are doing it more to be the squeaky wheel. Most of the time when I see "Coming Soon" sites removed, it is because something fell through with the contract, site funding, etc. Sometimes, it's because the charging provider had an alternative/backup site that the built instead. With EA, I think they are pulling back some of their installed sites because of the new hardware they are using. Primm in NV is one example.
I can't speak for any of the locations you've mentioned, but I've noticed a trend for older (mainly 50kw and L2) stations that have broken and rather than repairing them, they just remove them. There used to be a Chargepoint charger about a block from my house that falls into that category. There are also 8 Chargepoint L2 chargers next door to where I used to work that were also removed because a couple broke. Up until just recently, in the city where I live (about 120k people) the ONLY DCFC was EA. The local electric utility used to have a few DCFC installed downtown (they called it Electric Ave. 🙄), but they removed all of them. Thankfully the local Hyundai dealer just installed a few CPE250 units, but they're _expensive_ and they're only available when the dealership is open (they're behind a gate). It's a shame, and going backwards from where we need to be going.
Yep, EVgo has removed a few sites around Columbus and Pittsburgh. Both places have four of the new Ultium ready sites in slightly different locations though. I’ve also noted that the ChargePoint DCFCs at Easton Town Center have been out of service for more than a year now. They were also Tritium units that probably had some problems and the site host either can’t or won’t repair them.
👍🏻 How secure are the networks in support of these services? I imagine the upcoming either Tesla Phone, or X rebrand of Twitter, is going to incorporate the charge services; for those not part of the Tesla User network.. I have seen a street side hook up, like set where you would see a parking meter; was interesting- you carry a particular 'wand', is telescoping,.. Have you seen such?
Thanks for all the news Eric. I was not aware of the EVgo and ChargePoint stations going off line. I am suspecting they will upgrade after they figure out hire to navigate the federal funding. Also totally agree that federal funding for opening existing chargers has to be much reduced from installation of new sites. I have been exclusively using Electrify America, currently with a Porsche plan, but will probably will continue with their $0.31/kWh pricing. But I still do appreciate the other networks when I am in locations like national parks, and ChargePoint is what is available.
Thanks! With the Taycan, I can totally see prioritizing Electrify America, though we're seeing more of the 350 kW units from EVgo, which gives you a few more options. I think it's a really interesting question for how these companies proceed with any NEVI funding. For companies like ChargePoint and EVgo, who already have funds earmarked from GM, Mercedes, Nissan, Volvo, etc., the NEVI funds might make those charging sites completely free (no cost) to build out, but I hope they consider using those additional funds to expand the sites further. Also, I'm really hoping that they take the time to improve some of their existing sites. I think mixed power sites are a great option, so I'm really hoping to see ChargePoint and EVgo add their Express Plus and Delta 350 kW chargers to their existing 50 kW sites. Especially their CEC grant-funded sites along I-5 and Highway 99.
That generation of Tritium chargers used 3G modems and they’ve been going offline in 2022 as the cell providers turned off 3G. Should ChargePoint have been proactively upgrading them? Yes. Did they? No. As far as your opinion about Tesla shouldn’t get NEVI money for a 3D printed adapter, aren’t you neglecting to acknowledge the multi-billion dollar effort by Tesla to envision, build, deploy, monitor, support and repair the supercharger network that the 3D printed CCS connector is completely dependent on? Capitalism isn’t fair. Far from it. If Tesla was prescient enough to be ready for this moment shouldn’t they be rewarded? And if others need way more money per charger actually shouldn’t they be punished by not giving them money-wasting contracts? Love your content as always since it’s good to hear a dissenting viewpoint from the increasingly normative Tesla centric voices.
These are needed. It's the exact same mindset of that neighborhood gas station. I haven't driven by it yet as Wal Mart is the place of last resort for us for shopping, but I believe that EVGo pulled the unit from the Stow, OH. Wal Mart as it also no longer shows up in plugshare. That only leaves a very poorly rated and always broken Chargepoint charger in a flak jacket part of the city of Akron for a DCFC charging area. The EVGo charger was infamous for continuously being ICED and the neanderthals doing the ICEing doing so knowingly and wanting to go to fisticufss over their assholery. Still, these need to be around for the exact reasons you mentioned.
I’ve heard that Tesla Destination chargers might be counted as part their “opening” to non-Tesla EVs. Given that most Destination chargers are not really public and already useable by non-Tesla EVs, I hope not. In Colorado most if not all the ChargePoint stations are owned by a local utility or local government not by ChargePoint. Colorado has been supporting the building of a network of DCFC (mostly ChargePoint) in rural communities across the state. EA, EVgo, and Tesla to a lesser extent, are limited to urban centers and the Interstates. If you live and travel where we do it is mostly all ChargePoint for DCFC.
In WI, EVgo has removed a few 50kW units in the greater Milwaukee area with no apparent intention of replacing them. As far as I can tell these represented their only presence in the state, so are they leaving WI?
Interesting. I doubt they are abandoning WI. Between GM specifying 52 metropolitan regions for their "Ultium Ready" sites and their EVgo eXtend program with Pilot/Flying J, I expect EVgo to by operating with a decent number of >100 kW sites in almost every state.
The number of sites in and around the Bay Area that are either gone or useless is high. Everything seems poised for some major event - has the promise of future government funding simply caused a massive freeze? The effect on the ground is chaos. The loss of the EVgo - Walmart relationship has hit our short-range car hard. Dixon, Windsor, American Canyon, Brentwood gone. Idle sites in Hayward, Pinole, Walnut Creek, Saranap plus the decision by EA to upgrade I80/50 corridor almost all at once (Vacaville, Sparks, Truckee, Folsom). ChargePoint is not a coherent network and EVgo is on the ropes. The oil companies have been moving into this space in a big way but too early to see much benefit.
I just drove from Vegas up to Medford 2 weeks ago. Infrastructure from here to Bakersfield is similar aside from EA stations closed for upgrades and rest stops closed for maintenance. The 99 was great. The 5 from Sacramento up to Oregon was the same as when I drove it last July. Kingman Arizona needs attention. That's an important location in need of more charge stations. Charging infrastructure grew the most under the last administration. Charge Point has joined EvGo, letting the Bolt plug in and go.... No app needed.
I moved out of Utah a year and a half ago but I used those chargers. Infrequently as I could- because their pricing was awful. I remarked upon it when I had to use them. Maverik seemed to want to make them profitable from day one and there were much cheaper options in the area. EA had the I-15 corridor covered so well I took a 24kWh eGolf from Park City to Zion NP and only needed their chargers once. Then a quartet of CPE250s dropped into Orem and they were free at first. I think a lot of locals started to hit those for free energy instead of a UCAIR charger and the Maverik usage dropped to near zero. The Tritium CP50 units also acted up and didn't get great maintenance, one always had a garbled screen.
Yes, they weren't great, and the Tritium units aged poorly as well. It's been a while since I used them as well. The last time I went up that route, I used EA exclusively in Utah.
@@newscoulomb3705 I think they just rolled them all up like a carpet when that line on the balance sheet stayed red for too long. Hard to blame capitalists for doing capitalist things. If only the incentives were there for operational credits instead of installation only, like it is with wind energy.
Thanks Eric. To my thinking these are all teething pains, EV's are not ICE, there's a different dynamic, you can't fill your car at home or your coop. I guess the question is the percentages, is it worth it for a charger company to run a grid across the country? Well maybe it's not financially feasible, maybe that's what's happening, supply and demand, things are working out realistically, will everyday EV drivers with two or three hundred mile range EV's miss a location? You'd know that better than me, but in six years it hasn't been an issue for us.
You’re not imagining things, DC fast chargers are vanishing. EVgo pulled their units from the outlet mall in North Bend, WA and no word if they’re gonna be upgraded. The Moab Chargepoint has a PlugShare comment that it’s out of warranty and Rocky Mountain Power won’t pay for out of warranty repairs. I have changed my mind about grocery store chargers needing to be < 100kW. I’ve noticed grocery store 150kW EA stations in cities are overrun with local ID4, Ioniq 5, Polestars, etc. There’s already queues for these chargers and the idea of slower chargers being adequate for local residents is simply not true. If you want people to hate their EV experience, then make them camp at Safeway for 75 mins after already waiting 45 mins to get to the front of the line for access.
Thanks for the update. That sucks about those sites, and hopefully, ChargePoint can figure out how to work with Rocky Mountain Power. I still think 50 to 100 kW is valid for grocery stores, and ironically, it is for the exact reasons you just sited. For the same power drop and cabinet as a 150 kW charger, you can install three 50 kW dispensers or 1.5 of the 100 kW (shared power) dispensers. More stalls mean less of a chance that you have to wait to access a stall. The other factor driving the issue you addressed is Electrify America's pricing structure. There's a reason Tesla largely abandoned their free Supercharging years ago: People in cities abuse it. So the issue with grocery store chargers isn't the speed, but rather, it's the fact that people are using them to charge to full (even when many of those people have the ability to charge at home). A couple of alternatives should be considered for grocery store charging, including reduced per kWh rates for store customers, and per min "parking fees" after 30 to 45 minutes.
@@newscoulomb3705 50kW today is like 24kW in 2017. 50kW is too low now for todays common 82kWh or bigger packs. We need to encourage throughput and time efficiency. 50kW does neither of those things. Grocery stores and sit down restaurants are ill suited for 50kW these days because the market has moved on. You can perhaps argue that 50kW is good for malls but then you’re arguing about the continued existence of malls.
@@anthonyc8499 I somewhat agree, but it depends. I think, ultimately, it comes down to total site power and the ability to distribute that power. It's also a matter of matching the charging speeds (i.e., times) to the needs of the business. A grocery store should, on average, expect a customer to spend 45 minutes on site. If the expectation is that an EV owner with an 80 kWh pack can charge to 80% within 45 minutes, that would only require a 100 kW (200 A) charger. However, given the large number of smaller battery EVs that are still on the road (especially in cities), being able to split that 100 kW also makes a lot of sense. Honestly, I think EVgo's current model fits both of our concerns well. A couple of split-power 100 kW and a couple of split-power 350 kW (essentially, 175 kW x 2) dispensers would fill the needs for most grocery stores. For bigger cities, maybe double the number of chargers, but don't change the basic model.
The maverick charger I think you’re talking about in particular I can still see it under J1772 as they still have the ChargePoint CT 400 their, they just removed the tritium.
@@newscoulomb3705 never mind I just checked and they removed that as well. It used to be here: 6527 N Highway 36 Tooele, UT 84074 United States It looks like from Yelp they did a remodel recently and my guess is thats when they removed it. Looks like they were losing so much money they just didn’t want to have it anymore.
@@uwucaffeineaddiction4023 Yes, I saw that they added a Best Western site with L2 AC there, which is a great option. Just not for travelers. I wonder whether UCAIR only covered installation costs but not operating costs.
If I stop for a meal or I want to do a shop for groceries, etc, then I'd prefer 50kw chargers because they give me the time I need, without having to run to the car half way through. Also, in my TM3 RWD I can accept a 50kwh charge all the way to ~90% SOC, so it's not that slow.
Exactly. Most of the bigger battery/faster charging EVs can pull a full 50 kW up to 90% or higher, so it also makes for a valid meal stop way before you go low in the battery. A long range EV can easily drive for a couple of hours before dipping below 50%, and by that time, a lot of people might be thinking about stopping for a meal.
Yes, that's what I was afraid of. It's possible that EVgo lost their leases at Walmart sites (possibly due to Electrify America getting those contracts?).
@@newscoulomb3705- I know there are a couple of WM EVgo locations in North Central Ohio which have dropped off of Plugshare. These were installed back about 2016. There has been some duplication added (EA) in the years since, fortunately, which keeps this long East-West stretch driveable. I-75 in NW Ohio and SE Michigan could use some charger capacity, especially for winter travel. A jagged path is required to minimize distances between chargers.
@@newscoulomb3705 With 20/20 hindsight I think the EVgo Walmart leases are ending because Walmart is going to rollout their own DCFC network. I think the EAs at Walmarts and Sam's Clubs will probably remain as the leases are probably 10 (if not at least 5) year leases.
CCS may be at the end of the line at 350 kw maximum capacity.As better batteries are developed the need for 1000+ chargers will be needed.How will ccs fit in the mix?
Man, the Delano EVgo was so nice. The Bakersfield one was madness, every time. I disagree that it was a good site, but I'll still miss it. The infrastructure isn't being built up fast enough on my corridor between Fresno and LA. If the State of CA chargers just replace them, it'll be a big loss.
The 50KW fast charging sites in Indianapolis were removed; there are some new larger installs (EVgo and Electrify America), but fewer locations total. I agree that the loss of these sites is painful.
as I understand, Tesla will only retrofit about 10% of existing with the Magic Dock. All other new of the 7.5 k are new construction, part of their expansion plans. As far as loosing chargers, we had one hosted by a energy co-op that went missing, but it was moved to their new offices and is now in a better spot. I had heard the surge pricing utilities make DCFC hosting sites pay make it a net loss venture unless FreeWire is in play, so maybe some folks are removing them for economic reasons. Thx for the vid. I enjoyed watching.
All POTUS ever seem to take credit for way too much...edit: Maryland has no missing chargers. I say give Tesla all the money and have them deploy fresh superchargers with ccs and retrofit their current gear. They will be far more efficient at deployment vs. all other brands. Won't have a fancy screen or card reader tho, so....
I suspect Tesla will mostly install new chargers to install adapters. Especially if need longer cords. But if have to retro fit existing chargers as well, that’s okay if it fills a gap.
Yes, Tesla is supposed to open about 7,500 chargers to non-Tesla EV owners as "part of the deal." If they are building new chargers, I think it is perfectly fine that they get the full funding that everyone else gets for installing new chargers. I simply think there needs to be a different level of funding for retrofitting existing chargers. That funding should apply to others as well... Say if ChargePoint or EVgo upgrade existing chargers.
@@anthonyc8499 Hopefully, they install those chargers at a different location in Baker, like what they did in Kettleman City. We don't need anymore 50+ charging stall sites.
@@newscoulomb3705 Over/under on Tesla SuperCharger site in Stateline/Primm being made available for CCS users before EA (or anyone else) brings a public charger online there?
Tesla builds fully functioning charge sites for 1/2 the cost of the competition, so federal money goes much farther when you give it to Tesla. Why wouldn't you want to fund the most efficient, cost effective and reliable supplier of EV charging stations? Don't be a fool.
Unfortunately, other people did interpret it that way, so I've had to address that on a number of occasions. Currently, people are using it to invalidate and undermine certain public charging providers, claiming that they are completely reliant on government funding when, in actuality, many of the chargers they are building right now were funded through business partnerships and investments.
They should not take out all of the 50 KW chargers. They should leave them and install higher powered units in other sites. We need more chargers around, not fewer. It would be way better to have more lower powered chargers than just a few high speed chargers. You end up with a Leaf taking up a 350 KW charger for a much longer time because they can't accept the higher power. Also there is going to be a need for Chademo for many years to come. The new 2023 Nissan Leaf is an awesome vehicle. There are still a lot of other Chademo cars that are going to be on the road for a long time yet. We need more Charge point 50 KW and AC chargers in all current gas stations and at businesses.
Evgo removed one of two evse machines at a mall in Sanford Fl months ago. The sign does say coming soon for a replacement but the last time we were there, no joy. Stopped at three EVgo stations in Tampa Fl last November, all three were down. Not good. On the other hand, EA has replaced all 8 machines at a site on the north side of Tampa. The three previous stops there had half of them down. Kudos to EA for that at least
On Nov 5, 2022 EVgo sent me a message with subject "EV Fast Charging Station Decommissioning Notice" saying "You’ve previously charged at Walmart in Huntington Beach. Unfortunately, due to circumstances outside of our control, our chargers at this location will be removed from service as of Tuesday, November 8." Only 3 days notice! This was the nearest and oldest EVgo station to me and it was completely removed! The charging parking spots were quickly turned into more curbside reserved pickup parking!
Also, the EVgo to the north of me also at the Walmart in Garden Grove was also removed sometime in Nov 2022. Both of these EVgo stations were both built late 2016 or early 2017 with 2 DC Fast plugs (50kW) ABB units and 1 Level 2 plug. I assume EVgo's lease expired. The next nearest EVgo station is in a strip mall and has been down for many months!
EA built two stations near me. The closet in the Bank of America parking lot. It has 4 plugs but usually only 1 or NONE are working! The one further away is in the Target parking lot. That one has 6 plugs but usually only 3 are working.
Thanks! That's unfortunate. It's pretty interesting that EVgo's total site count is stable, but that means that the number of sites they are decommissioning is completely offsetting the number of new Ultium Ready sites they are putting in.
@@newscoulomb3705 This week I received 2 email messages from EVgo with subject "Check out the new EVgo station near you". Both new stations are in CHASE Bank Parking lots about 10-11 Miles from me (vs less than 1 mile from my house for the old Walmart site). Both sites have 1-2 350kW Stations and 2 100kW Stations.
Sat 3/4: 1x 350kW, 2x 100kW, 10 Miles in Cypress, CA
Tue 3/7: 2x 350kW, 2x 100kW, 11 Miles in Los Alamitos, CA
@@mikekimura2532 Thanks for the heads up! I seem to recall a few CHASE banks with EVgo sites. If that's a lasting partnership, it will be great for their urban support sites.
Oh I had no clue that was the reason behind Tesla's decision to open their charging network.
I think it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Realistically, Tesla could have made hundreds of millions of dollars by now if they started opening their Superchargers 5 to 6 years ago, but hundreds of millions isn't billions.
I'm going to visit one of the unlocked Superchargers soon, and I'm going to give some deeper thoughts on the issue. Regardless, it's a huge net benefit, and Tesla deserves accolades for opening the Superchargers (regardless of their motivation). However, there are still some issues with the rollout, and it might not be the "game changer" that some people believe it is.
Hey Eric, have you noticed that on PlugShare quite a few of the future 'coming soon' DC fast charger locations are being removed?
I think it's because some EV drivers are complaining that the sites aren't in the ground yet because they don't understand or know how to toggle off the sites with the wrench icon. The future sites being removed on PlugShare is a major disservice to the EV community for those of us looking to the future and anticipating easier EV road tripping. Notably in Kansas along I-70 nearly all of the future sites were removed. Luckily throughout my home state of New Mexico, all of the future sites are still listed and I've visited most of them to take drone photos and update people on the progress.
I have seen that before, but I'm not sure that's from people complaining about the "Coming Soon" sites. I know people do complain, but I think they are doing it more to be the squeaky wheel.
Most of the time when I see "Coming Soon" sites removed, it is because something fell through with the contract, site funding, etc. Sometimes, it's because the charging provider had an alternative/backup site that the built instead. With EA, I think they are pulling back some of their installed sites because of the new hardware they are using. Primm in NV is one example.
I can't speak for any of the locations you've mentioned, but I've noticed a trend for older (mainly 50kw and L2) stations that have broken and rather than repairing them, they just remove them. There used to be a Chargepoint charger about a block from my house that falls into that category. There are also 8 Chargepoint L2 chargers next door to where I used to work that were also removed because a couple broke. Up until just recently, in the city where I live (about 120k people) the ONLY DCFC was EA. The local electric utility used to have a few DCFC installed downtown (they called it Electric Ave. 🙄), but they removed all of them. Thankfully the local Hyundai dealer just installed a few CPE250 units, but they're _expensive_ and they're only available when the dealership is open (they're behind a gate). It's a shame, and going backwards from where we need to be going.
Are you talking about the charging situation in Salem?
Yep, EVgo has removed a few sites around Columbus and Pittsburgh. Both places have four of the new Ultium ready sites in slightly different locations though. I’ve also noted that the ChargePoint DCFCs at Easton Town Center have been out of service for more than a year now. They were also Tritium units that probably had some problems and the site host either can’t or won’t repair them.
👍🏻 How secure are the networks in support of these services?
I imagine the upcoming either Tesla Phone, or X rebrand of Twitter, is going to incorporate the charge services; for those not part of the Tesla User network..
I have seen a street side hook up, like set where you would see a parking meter; was interesting- you carry a particular 'wand', is telescoping,.. Have you seen such?
Thanks for all the news Eric. I was not aware of the EVgo and ChargePoint stations going off line. I am suspecting they will upgrade after they figure out hire to navigate the federal funding.
Also totally agree that federal funding for opening existing chargers has to be much reduced from installation of new sites.
I have been exclusively using Electrify America, currently with a Porsche plan, but will probably will continue with their $0.31/kWh pricing.
But I still do appreciate the other networks when I am in locations like national parks, and ChargePoint is what is available.
Thanks! With the Taycan, I can totally see prioritizing Electrify America, though we're seeing more of the 350 kW units from EVgo, which gives you a few more options.
I think it's a really interesting question for how these companies proceed with any NEVI funding. For companies like ChargePoint and EVgo, who already have funds earmarked from GM, Mercedes, Nissan, Volvo, etc., the NEVI funds might make those charging sites completely free (no cost) to build out, but I hope they consider using those additional funds to expand the sites further.
Also, I'm really hoping that they take the time to improve some of their existing sites. I think mixed power sites are a great option, so I'm really hoping to see ChargePoint and EVgo add their Express Plus and Delta 350 kW chargers to their existing 50 kW sites. Especially their CEC grant-funded sites along I-5 and Highway 99.
That generation of Tritium chargers used 3G modems and they’ve been going offline in 2022 as the cell providers turned off 3G. Should ChargePoint have been proactively upgrading them? Yes. Did they? No.
As far as your opinion about Tesla shouldn’t get NEVI money for a 3D printed adapter, aren’t you neglecting to acknowledge the multi-billion dollar effort by Tesla to envision, build, deploy, monitor, support and repair the supercharger network that the 3D printed CCS connector is completely dependent on? Capitalism isn’t fair. Far from it. If Tesla was prescient enough to be ready for this moment shouldn’t they be rewarded? And if others need way more money per charger actually shouldn’t they be punished by not giving them money-wasting contracts?
Love your content as always since it’s good to hear a dissenting viewpoint from the increasingly normative Tesla centric voices.
Spend the money where you get the best value..
These are needed. It's the exact same mindset of that neighborhood gas station. I haven't driven by it yet as Wal Mart is the place of last resort for us for shopping, but I believe that EVGo pulled the unit from the Stow, OH. Wal Mart as it also no longer shows up in plugshare. That only leaves a very poorly rated and always broken Chargepoint charger in a flak jacket part of the city of Akron for a DCFC charging area. The EVGo charger was infamous for continuously being ICED and the neanderthals doing the ICEing doing so knowingly and wanting to go to fisticufss over their assholery. Still, these need to be around for the exact reasons you mentioned.
I’ve heard that Tesla Destination chargers might be counted as part their “opening” to non-Tesla EVs. Given that most Destination chargers are not really public and already useable by non-Tesla EVs, I hope not. In Colorado most if not all the ChargePoint stations are owned by a local utility or local government not by ChargePoint. Colorado has been supporting the building of a network of DCFC (mostly ChargePoint) in rural communities across the state. EA, EVgo, and Tesla to a lesser extent, are limited to urban centers and the Interstates. If you live and travel where we do it is mostly all ChargePoint for DCFC.
In WI, EVgo has removed a few 50kW units in the greater Milwaukee area with no apparent intention of replacing them. As far as I can tell these represented their only presence in the state, so are they leaving WI?
Interesting. I doubt they are abandoning WI. Between GM specifying 52 metropolitan regions for their "Ultium Ready" sites and their EVgo eXtend program with Pilot/Flying J, I expect EVgo to by operating with a decent number of >100 kW sites in almost every state.
Rant on! I love hearing your opinions and your videos are always extremely interesting. 😊
Thanks!
The number of sites in and around the Bay Area that are either gone or useless is high. Everything seems poised for some major event - has the promise of future government funding simply caused a massive freeze? The effect on the ground is chaos. The loss of the EVgo - Walmart relationship has hit our short-range car hard. Dixon, Windsor, American Canyon, Brentwood gone. Idle sites in Hayward, Pinole, Walnut Creek, Saranap plus the decision by EA to upgrade I80/50 corridor almost all at once (Vacaville, Sparks, Truckee, Folsom).
ChargePoint is not a coherent network and EVgo is on the ropes. The oil companies have been moving into this space in a big way but too early to see much benefit.
I just drove from Vegas up to Medford 2 weeks ago. Infrastructure from here to Bakersfield is similar aside from EA stations closed for upgrades and rest stops closed for maintenance. The 99 was great. The 5 from Sacramento up to Oregon was the same as when I drove it last July.
Kingman Arizona needs attention. That's an important location in need of more charge stations.
Charging infrastructure grew the most under the last administration.
Charge Point has joined EvGo, letting the Bolt plug in and go.... No app needed.
I moved out of Utah a year and a half ago but I used those chargers. Infrequently as I could- because their pricing was awful. I remarked upon it when I had to use them. Maverik seemed to want to make them profitable from day one and there were much cheaper options in the area. EA had the I-15 corridor covered so well I took a 24kWh eGolf from Park City to Zion NP and only needed their chargers once. Then a quartet of CPE250s dropped into Orem and they were free at first. I think a lot of locals started to hit those for free energy instead of a UCAIR charger and the Maverik usage dropped to near zero. The Tritium CP50 units also acted up and didn't get great maintenance, one always had a garbled screen.
Yes, they weren't great, and the Tritium units aged poorly as well. It's been a while since I used them as well. The last time I went up that route, I used EA exclusively in Utah.
@@newscoulomb3705 I think they just rolled them all up like a carpet when that line on the balance sheet stayed red for too long. Hard to blame capitalists for doing capitalist things. If only the incentives were there for operational credits instead of installation only, like it is with wind energy.
@@ElectricNed Unfortunately, if this soured them on chargers, they might not be willing to consider something like Freewire.
Thanks Eric.
To my thinking these are all teething pains, EV's are not ICE, there's a different dynamic, you can't fill your car at home or your coop. I guess the question is the percentages, is it worth it for a charger company to run a grid across the country? Well maybe it's not financially feasible, maybe that's what's happening, supply and demand, things are working out realistically, will everyday EV drivers with two or three hundred mile range EV's miss a location? You'd know that better than me, but in six years it hasn't been an issue for us.
You’re not imagining things, DC fast chargers are vanishing. EVgo pulled their units from the outlet mall in North Bend, WA and no word if they’re gonna be upgraded. The Moab Chargepoint has a PlugShare comment that it’s out of warranty and Rocky Mountain Power won’t pay for out of warranty repairs.
I have changed my mind about grocery store chargers needing to be < 100kW. I’ve noticed grocery store 150kW EA stations in cities are overrun with local ID4, Ioniq 5, Polestars, etc. There’s already queues for these chargers and the idea of slower chargers being adequate for local residents is simply not true. If you want people to hate their EV experience, then make them camp at Safeway for 75 mins after already waiting 45 mins to get to the front of the line for access.
Thanks for the update. That sucks about those sites, and hopefully, ChargePoint can figure out how to work with Rocky Mountain Power.
I still think 50 to 100 kW is valid for grocery stores, and ironically, it is for the exact reasons you just sited. For the same power drop and cabinet as a 150 kW charger, you can install three 50 kW dispensers or 1.5 of the 100 kW (shared power) dispensers. More stalls mean less of a chance that you have to wait to access a stall.
The other factor driving the issue you addressed is Electrify America's pricing structure. There's a reason Tesla largely abandoned their free Supercharging years ago: People in cities abuse it. So the issue with grocery store chargers isn't the speed, but rather, it's the fact that people are using them to charge to full (even when many of those people have the ability to charge at home).
A couple of alternatives should be considered for grocery store charging, including reduced per kWh rates for store customers, and per min "parking fees" after 30 to 45 minutes.
@@newscoulomb3705 50kW today is like 24kW in 2017. 50kW is too low now for todays common 82kWh or bigger packs. We need to encourage throughput and time efficiency. 50kW does neither of those things. Grocery stores and sit down restaurants are ill suited for 50kW these days because the market has moved on. You can perhaps argue that 50kW is good for malls but then you’re arguing about the continued existence of malls.
@@anthonyc8499 I somewhat agree, but it depends. I think, ultimately, it comes down to total site power and the ability to distribute that power. It's also a matter of matching the charging speeds (i.e., times) to the needs of the business. A grocery store should, on average, expect a customer to spend 45 minutes on site.
If the expectation is that an EV owner with an 80 kWh pack can charge to 80% within 45 minutes, that would only require a 100 kW (200 A) charger. However, given the large number of smaller battery EVs that are still on the road (especially in cities), being able to split that 100 kW also makes a lot of sense.
Honestly, I think EVgo's current model fits both of our concerns well. A couple of split-power 100 kW and a couple of split-power 350 kW (essentially, 175 kW x 2) dispensers would fill the needs for most grocery stores. For bigger cities, maybe double the number of chargers, but don't change the basic model.
The maverick charger I think you’re talking about in particular I can still see it under J1772 as they still have the ChargePoint CT 400 their, they just removed the tritium.
Great catch. Thanks! I'll try to see if I can find more information based on the J1772 PlugShare site.
@@newscoulomb3705 never mind I just checked and they removed that as well. It used to be here:
6527 N Highway 36
Tooele, UT 84074
United States
It looks like from Yelp they did a remodel recently and my guess is thats when they removed it. Looks like they were losing so much money they just didn’t want to have it anymore.
@@uwucaffeineaddiction4023 Yes, I saw that they added a Best Western site with L2 AC there, which is a great option. Just not for travelers. I wonder whether UCAIR only covered installation costs but not operating costs.
Got my Mach e for 4 months now. First cross country I ran at 10%
If I stop for a meal or I want to do a shop for groceries, etc, then I'd prefer 50kw chargers because they give me the time I need, without having to run to the car half way through. Also, in my TM3 RWD I can accept a 50kwh charge all the way to ~90% SOC, so it's not that slow.
Exactly. Most of the bigger battery/faster charging EVs can pull a full 50 kW up to 90% or higher, so it also makes for a valid meal stop way before you go low in the battery. A long range EV can easily drive for a couple of hours before dipping below 50%, and by that time, a lot of people might be thinking about stopping for a meal.
EvGo site cleanly removed at Walmart in Chino Hills CA. It's like it has never been there.
Yes, that's what I was afraid of. It's possible that EVgo lost their leases at Walmart sites (possibly due to Electrify America getting those contracts?).
@@newscoulomb3705- I know there are a couple of WM EVgo locations in North Central Ohio which have dropped off of Plugshare. These were installed back about 2016. There has been some duplication added (EA) in the years since, fortunately, which keeps this long East-West stretch driveable. I-75 in NW Ohio and SE Michigan could use some charger capacity, especially for winter travel. A jagged path is required to minimize distances between chargers.
EVgo in Oregon also evaporating rapidly.
@@stevewausa which locations?
@@newscoulomb3705 With 20/20 hindsight I think the EVgo Walmart leases are ending because Walmart is going to rollout their own DCFC network. I think the EAs at Walmarts and Sam's Clubs will probably remain as the leases are probably 10 (if not at least 5) year leases.
CCS may be at the end of the line at 350 kw maximum capacity.As better batteries are
developed the need for 1000+ chargers will be needed.How will ccs fit in the mix?
Man, the Delano EVgo was so nice. The Bakersfield one was madness, every time. I disagree that it was a good site, but I'll still miss it. The infrastructure isn't being built up fast enough on my corridor between Fresno and LA. If the State of CA chargers just replace them, it'll be a big loss.
The 50KW fast charging sites in Indianapolis were removed; there are some new larger installs (EVgo and Electrify America), but fewer locations total. I agree that the loss of these sites is painful.
could be that no money was being made , its really only reason to pull or not repair
as I understand, Tesla will only retrofit about 10% of existing with the Magic Dock. All other new of the 7.5 k are new construction, part of their expansion plans. As far as loosing chargers, we had one hosted by a energy co-op that went missing, but it was moved to their new offices and is now in a better spot. I had heard the surge pricing utilities make DCFC hosting sites pay make it a net loss venture unless FreeWire is in play, so maybe some folks are removing them for economic reasons. Thx for the vid. I enjoyed watching.
All POTUS ever seem to take credit for way too much...edit: Maryland has no missing chargers. I say give Tesla all the money and have them deploy fresh superchargers with ccs and retrofit their current gear. They will be far more efficient at deployment vs. all other brands. Won't have a fancy screen or card reader tho, so....
Depending upon one provider for all EV charging would be a huge mistake no matter who it was.
Rant on! Totally agree!
The locals pronounce Delano with a "Long A".
Hey , Just wanted to let you know I talked to Sean, got my downpayment in on of those Ranger EV's. Thanks for the hook up.
Awesome! Congratulations!
I suspect Tesla will mostly install new chargers to install adapters. Especially if need longer cords. But if have to retro fit existing chargers as well, that’s okay if it fills a gap.
Tesla promised to double their number of chargers. Not clear if they mean stalls or locations.
Yes, Tesla is supposed to open about 7,500 chargers to non-Tesla EV owners as "part of the deal." If they are building new chargers, I think it is perfectly fine that they get the full funding that everyone else gets for installing new chargers. I simply think there needs to be a different level of funding for retrofitting existing chargers. That funding should apply to others as well... Say if ChargePoint or EVgo upgrade existing chargers.
@@newscoulomb3705 Baker supercharger is funded for an expansion and Tesla is getting $1,600,000 to put at least 50% CCS plugs on the new stalls.
@@anthonyc8499 Hopefully, they install those chargers at a different location in Baker, like what they did in Kettleman City. We don't need anymore 50+ charging stall sites.
@@newscoulomb3705 Over/under on Tesla SuperCharger site in Stateline/Primm being made available for CCS users before EA (or anyone else) brings a public charger online there?
Tesla builds fully functioning charge sites for 1/2 the cost of the competition, so federal money goes much farther when you give it to Tesla. Why wouldn't you want to fund the most efficient, cost effective and reliable supplier of EV charging stations? Don't be a fool.
I did not interptret the current White House as taking credit for past electrification. I respectfully disagree with your statement.
Unfortunately, other people did interpret it that way, so I've had to address that on a number of occasions. Currently, people are using it to invalidate and undermine certain public charging providers, claiming that they are completely reliant on government funding when, in actuality, many of the chargers they are building right now were funded through business partnerships and investments.
My understanding is Tesla is not giving CCS support to existing chargers. It will be added to newly installed chargers.
I heard it was supposed to be a mix of new and existing chargers, but around 7,500 total.
They should not take out all of the 50 KW chargers. They should leave them and install higher powered units in other sites. We need more chargers around, not fewer.
It would be way better to have more lower powered chargers than just a few high speed chargers.
You end up with a Leaf taking up a 350 KW charger for a much longer time because they can't accept the higher power. Also there is going to be a need for Chademo for many years to come.
The new 2023 Nissan Leaf is an awesome vehicle. There are still a lot of other Chademo cars that are going to be on the road for a long time yet.
We need more Charge point 50 KW and AC chargers in all current gas stations and at businesses.
Evgo removed one of two evse machines at a mall in Sanford Fl months ago. The sign does say coming soon for a replacement but the last time we were there, no joy. Stopped at three EVgo stations in Tampa Fl last November, all three were down. Not good. On the other hand, EA has replaced all 8 machines at a site on the north side of Tampa. The three previous stops there had half of them down. Kudos to EA for that at least
Charging sites are unsafe in Califmexifornistan...especially for females....LOL!