James Smith modern bikes are so overpriced and more show than go, performance wise , bikes havent come far at all since the early 90s, they just look gayer boring and a bit of handling improvement. I prefer the rawness of pre mid 80s and there was a realistic price tag for what you bought, not rorted with overpriced delicate bs they have on them today, they have no character
@@TheFykle have you actually ridden a modern 450? i guarantee you haven't. the bikes now have come a long way. the new 450s and 250s are insanely fast, have way better suspension and braking.
The KTM isn't geared for high end it's power band is smooth throughout the entire room range I have the KTM 525 and it's instant power soon as you touch the throttle instead of having to get up to like 4+ krpm for the 2 strokes power to come on strong now don't get me wrong I was always a 2 stroke guy all I've owned till this KTM 525 it's a whole other beast and I've owned and ridden raced kx 125s cr 250s and loved them never even thought of purchasing a 4 stroke till I was at track riding my cr 250 and a guy there let me hope on his 2014 Yamaha 450 and I was amazed the bike felt so nimble and the power was always on tap climbing hills in 2nd gear 1/3 throttle I'd be doing in 2nd in power and in on my cr 250 4 stroke tech has come leaps and bounds from the xr days
@@TheFykle I've owned 3 250fs and never had to rebuild one. I put a piston in every year and adjust the cams. That's it. I have however blown up an 85 and a 125
All this shows is a comparison of gearbox ratios and final drive gearing, which will be quite different because the Cr is a Motocross bike and the KTM is a dessert spec bike! Also the Cr 500 can go over 100mph with the right gearing! The CR 500 engine makes more power!
Don't mean to sound rude, but you clearly don't know much about engines my friend. Also consider that a Cr 500 engine can very easily be tuned to produce 80+ BHP.
joe davis your simply stuck in the old era of 2 strokes can't be beaten. Yes they can be tuned to 80hp but so can a 450 4stroke that's completely irrelevant u dipstick. A 4 stroke has it's power from idle to redline. A 2 stroke not so much. Just fukn move on old boi
Mate I ride 450's and I love them. You cant tune a 450 to 80 or 90 BHP you dipstick!! You would be lucky to add 10 BHP over stock with massive investment! I'm no 2T fan boy, I just like facts!!!
Apply 25 years of engineering to the cr500 and I think we have found a winner, could you imagine if honda continued to work on the 500, injection, modern materials, any 2 stroke upgrades since then
Electric vehicles batteries have more pollution than Diesels. And what about the power stations ? There is not enough space on this earth to hide all the nuclear waist to recharge all the planned electric vehicles they want to build. Four Strokes makes more poisonous gas than Two Strokes. It's all about money.
Because I read in a USA motorcycle magazine that the EPA tested the motors and found that Two Strokes were cleaner because they only burn the oil half way. They must go back to the Seventies/ beginning Eighties and chech their files. But by now it would be burned out.
Jason Shea ktm and husqy and Suzuki kept making 2ts for a while after everyone else quit, don’t follow the brand so I don’t know what year though. The ktm 2 strokes r awesome my bro has the 300 and it’s got an insane amount of low end for a 2 stroke.
Why does everyone keep saying the KTM has desert gearing? So fucking tired of everyone using that as an excuse why the KTM won is doesn't have gearing setup for desert racing you obviously have never rode a 450 or 525 exc they just have the power available to pull hard even down low in a higher gear where as the 2 strokes don't have the power down low in low rpm to pull through the gearing I own and ride a KTM 525 exc it's just as at home on a mx track as it is in trail riding hill climbing or straight aways
@brdman the KTM is not a fucking desert bike for the last time! Know what the fk your. Spouting off about before using. It as an excuse or. Better yet just don't say shit you know nothing about. . desert gearing a d or it's a desert bike SMFH
The only thing desert about the Dakar ktm is THAT IT HAS. DAKAR IN THE NAME. And it's the name of a popular. Enduro race. That's mostly in the desert the only thing different. About a factory Dakar. Ktm 450 or 525 Is cosmetic they put a steering dampner on it. a billet gas cap a slightly larger gas tank and a GPS monitor and. A skid plate.That's about it they might put a softer set of knobbys on it tire wise the irc d5b's and that's a big maybe I'm just bringing that up because that's what's on my Dakar 525 rather than the factory michilins other than those things and a ugly Dakar graphic kit. They put on No? power adders. No changes in; Trans gearing no different clutch And finally last but I'm sure don't least the same damn sprockets that come on reg. 450s!!!!!!!a
I can still remember the first time I rode my 1985 CR500 and how insanely fast it was. I to this day don`t know why I ended up getting to busy at work and giving it to my kid....Cheers in WA ST
I bought my CR 500 in 1996. what a machine!! Lived in Grande Cache, Alberta, Canada at the time. It's right in the middle of the rocky mountains, and its dirt bike heaven!!
People can say what they want, but my opinion is you just can’t make a better looking bike than ktm. Everything about it looks like an artist was commissioned to make it. Gorgeous work and I shall have one soon!
I had an 89 CR500 with a wide ration HRC transmission kit. The kit replaced 3rd, 4th and 5th gears - the top of 4th was equivalent to the top of the stock 5th gear. That bike probably would have left the 450 behind.
Amazing! I didn't think it was possible to get more horsepower out of an engine that fires once every two revolutions. The Honda is water cooled, too. I couldn't tell whether the KTM was or not. Hmm...So the four stroker, with all its extra cams, valve springs, valves and followers can be made to put out as much power thanks to incredible metallurgy. But I'm still thinking it's an insane number of extra parts!
The fact of the matter is JAPAN AND JAPANESE PEOPLE MAKE THE BEST MOST BAD ASS MOTOCROSS DIRTBIKES, STREETBIKES , CARS, COOL HOUSES , EARTHQUAKE BUILDINGS, SWORDS, MARTIAL ARTS, FOODS , SNACKS , I LOVE JAPAN AND I LOVE THE JAPANESE PEOPLE , IF I COULD LIVE ANYWHERE OTHER THAN USA WHERE I WAS BORN AND LIVE I WOULD CHOOSE JAPAN !!!
Why all the hating about gear ratios and so forth?? I love both of the bikes and think they sound amazing flying down the beach together on song! One is a classic and one is obviously newer and more refined.. who cares they are both beautiful bikes
to those saying the ktm has newer technology, it's also 50cc less and has half the power strokes of a 500cc 2 stroke. so the honda had a serious advantage. i'm fairly impressed that it won.
@@ApocGuy honda can have double the horsies than the ktm but its verry much made docile for such big 500cc 2 stroke monocylinder. It would overheat and kill the driver if it had more power than allready has.
Nice outcome. I grew up in the 80s so 2 strokes will always be my thing. Ktm aint no slouch but cmon. Honda rules. Where's my R 3 wheeler, im ready to rip.
Desert Mountain Preppers no side by side comparison its cuz its a ktm add. The cr500 disappears in the fog it's so fast the KTM was given all it had but I could still see it
stupid fun, only one way to find out, didnt know jonny was doing the dakar this year. :) a 2011 ktm 450 rr Rallye passed me , while i (ktm 2012 500) was pinned in sixth ,geared to the max doing 160ks and the rallye kept pulling. Amazing bikes
The ktm acTually is a close ratio gearing. So that excuse is invalid its also about 4 seconds slower on a good size mx track compared to a ktm 450 with same rider a pro rider racing both. So another excuse invalid
TaeTooCold if the cr is Faster why isnt it pulling ahead of the ktm 450? I have the ktm 450 dakar racer and motor and trans wise Its Sams as a stock 450 tahey did nothi g to motor or trans. Only diffrence is tank a steering stabalizer. An alum 1 peice skid plate and i believe possibly different rims or hubs and a "in my opinion" ugly graphics kit. You cr 500 guys cRy. And use every excuse you can why the ktm smaller discplament 4 cycle bike won i wonder how much worse you guys would get if the cr was racing. Ohh say a ktm 525 exc.
****This isnt a hate comment or bashing on either brand/rider/machine**** Both awesome bikes but the purpose built motocross bike with shorter gearing lost on a long legged drag race..... what does that really tell us? Put the KTM Dakar bike on the motocross track and the Cr500 most likely will win, while the suspension settings, extra weight and gearing ratio limit the KTM. Apples to oranges comparison in my opinion. Each is built for a purpose and each serves their respective individual purpose well! 👊✊ Ride on!
Adam Yoder the 450 4 stroke can rev out to 11,000 rpm and it has an extra gear. The CR500 depending on ports and pipe is usually out of breath by 8500 rpm. Top speed the modern 450 wins every time. Now. If you can put it down the 500 could out run it in a drag race depending on available traction.
Did this race on a rail bed in 2007 with a 525 exc...other buddy on a 95 cr500. I was on a WR400 fully ported, polished, high compression piston, gray wire cut...revved to the moon. The CR out accelerated us the first few hundred feet, then we started to catch up and eventually overtake him. We all got up to top gear, fullthrottle...my bud on the 525 thought he had it but my bike could rev higher than his, so I crept up and overtook him. This was about gearing and, ability to over rev. I'm sure with proper gears the CR would have taken us. I didn't mention though, the XR650R that was geared for highway use totally kill all of us. He started out back but blew by all of us with ease....
Great video !!!! Lots of comments from both sides - blue smoke and 4 stroke. Winners and losers. Each defending their own. I came for the bikes. Both are awesome machines.awesome. I, too, thought the 500 would top out north of 100mph. I've ridden both blue smokes and 4 strokes. Both street and dirt. Always had fun on both.. Thanks for posting.
Also did you notice all the starts were rolling starts which gave the 4 stroke an advantage. 2 strokes wake up IMMEDIATELY and off a proper mx start would've pulled ahead by a bike length out two and kept it on an track.
Moon gears. I'm running 15/46 on my 1990 500r and it flat pulls for days. Never has a 450cc 4stroke nosed me out in a straight line drag. In glamis or hardpac. And I suffer from the shorter ratio tranny that all CRs had from 85-90 91 on honda spread them out and there is a substantial difference in stock form. The late model tranny let's the big Rs power really shine.
Hardly fair with the 2 different gearboxes Gear up the CR500 to Dakar Spec like we used for the Finke Desrt Race, then compare the two. CR500's here were doing 170kph - 185kph in Finke spec (GPS calculated)
I own 2 well-built kx500's, (one in an aluminum frame), a well built crf450 and a well built rmz 450. The Kawis destroy the 4 strokes in any straight line race, especially up a steep quarter mile sand hill (we've raced many times). The 4 strokes are faster on a track (we've raced many times). Who still doesn't know this?
I'm very surprised. I expected the desert racer to have a higher top speed due to gearing, but while it's hard to tell from the video angle it looks like the KTM actually beats the 500 everywhere. From the rolling start, the KTM jumps ahead. Give the CR500 a head start, and in a very short time the KTM overhauls it. That's what I thought I was seeing (hard to tell), and then they confirmed it in the interviews at the end. A 2 stroke engine with a narrow power band needs a 10 speed box to keep it on the pipe. Yes, the 500 is so big it has "enough" power anywhere in the rev range.... but not enough to beat the 450. For that it needs to be on the pipe all the time, more gears needed... and then I think it should win. But this is the same reason electric will beat 4T and 2T. It's even more extreme than the 450 in that it only needs ONE gear. CR500 needs 10 gears, 450 KTM needs 6 gears, electric only needs 1 gear to do roughly the same thing.
Just came back to say that after researching this the modern 4 strokes are simply more powerful. It's not gearing or other excuses, it's as simple as that. Stock cr500's dyno about 55hp only. Yes, there might be some racing bikes tuned up for more, but generally only 55hp. The ktm450 and 500 4 strokes make a bit more.
777vikingfan Uhhh, ya it will be, Reed valves bent open from holding it wide open for so freaking long. Bad move on a 2 stroke engine, they're made to flex open & shut frequently not stick open all at once for ever & ever... straight from a certified bike mechanics.
How about adding a tooth to the front sprocket on the CR? Looks like its already geared up, not sure how much more you can get out of it on top speed... they are great on steep hills.
To comment on most people's comment.... it isn't just a gear ratio there is real power needed to pull that gear too. Size of rider and air displaced is a huge one. I have an older Superkart motor. Pole position at Laguna Secain single cylinder 250cc class. World Superkart Challenge. Karl Reth's engine. I was untouchable in the desert running that motor! Ran it for years. four strokes get out on me by a few bikes and my HP overcomes them usually around 60 mph or so. Most guys run motor cross gearing and think they are fast. Man you have a lot to learn. BTW from other comments on other threads . Yes you cut a specific chain for specific gear ratio for specific wheel base length.. no steeering stabilizer and over 100 mph my 2001 cr250 is rock steady. Big guy, 10paddle, 250cc. Spanking yo ass. Oldsmobile, competition, sand highway at over 100mph through the whoops. Then slap more gear on for more mph at Ocotillo Wells.
Early 90's, all my buddies were rocking BA yz250 smokers, I was on a 82 RM465 smoker(I was the new guy), I loved the torque on Single track, but those guys were better riders, and they smoked me on the track, lol. I dusted them in the sand, I then got a CR500 that ran on avgas, HOLY powerband, what a bike, sometimes it scared me, I only dared us it at the dunes. I'd love a modern 500 smoker with a great powervalve, frame, suspension and brakes. Changing a top end on a smoker is SO easy, cranks change easy enough too. Current 450s, like a YZ450 OR ktm SX OR xc, THEY ARE FANTASTIC, times are GREAT!
Put the cr500 up against a normal ktm450sx. Not the Dakar version. The cr500 is built for motocross, so put it up against a bike made for motocross. Not a bike made to get across the desert as fast as possible
COOL!! This video has proven decisively via careful planning, use of awesome drone video footage and two skilled riders that I wouldn’t piss on a KTM450 if it was on fire, awful
The two bikes make a music chord at 1:19! Its an A#sus4 as far as I can tell. You can hear the two bikes glide into and then later out of that chord. its quite cool!
nothing will ever compare to the big 2 stroker's either you know how to ride them or don't 4 stroker's are for the lazy don't get me wrong their awesome but I grew up on old yz's hodakas and stuff though
for real tho i would do the same with my 2000 kx 250 stock bore piped front to back vforce3 reeds an striker carb and i kept up to my buddys 2019 ktm 450 sxf witch is piped and geared
Its around 30years because the cr500 engine design is from 1985-1987's era :) No exhaust valve or emphasis on getting the most out of the size. It's basically lacking development because they thought it was more than enough "as it is" back in the day. Imagine if they upped the rev range with 1000rpm and made it have a modern piston to help with rotating mass speed increase, added an exhaust valve to allow for same low end with more top end. More power, same torque or more, same reliability, better fuel economy, "4-stroke like torque curve" etc..
I mean in 1986 the CR500 produced 65 horsepower, 47 lb/ft of torque, and weighed 225lbs Up until recently 450 four strokes made around 50-55hp and 35-37 lb/ft, weighing 240lbs The bikes have just recently hit the 60hp rating
ted s Same for you. But people agreed with me, so deal with it, it's true, if you don't say what I said is true, then you're just a biased 500cc fanboy, now I love 500cc, but they are up to no match against 450s in MX and SX, hence why barely anyone uses it for racing?
With the same amount of work done to the CR500 as the KTM, I’m certain it would have won. The KTM has a modified trans with an added gear and various other mods that would ultimately help with top speed. A CR500 engine can make close to 80 hp with the factory cylinder, head, and cases if properly built.
i agree that ktm is factory racing built must be atleast 50k into it sink that into the cr 500 would be a very different story and outcome alot of these people have no clue what there talking about 4 strokes do not have more power lol everyone knows a 2 stroke makes 2x the equivalent power of a 4 stroke i know this as i also ride a 2000 kx 250 all done up and i also have 2 450r ones a 2005 and the other is a 2016 Honda of course lol a buddy of mine has a 2019 ktm 450 sx my 20 year old kx 250 keeps up to that thing maybe a quarter of a bike length away if that an im running a 48 tooth back an a 14 tooth front
@@brandonblackbeard5894 you need to realize again like you said 2 strokes are 2x the power meaning a 1000 4t should be equal to the 500 but that 450 beat it which should impress you
@@leperdthecrazycatx1dtm442 doesn't really impress me that modern technology is basically doing what old bike could do like 20 years ago lol keeps up if not beat modern bikes thats more impressive to me personally..also just because it's 2x the power of equivalent motor size doesn't mean anything gearing is what the difference really is you can have a 125 with with low gearing that would smoke most 450's out there
450s just have the newest technology that's why there faster now all 4 strokes I should say have new technology really comes to the track tho thats where it shoes
+Ethan Ellis EFI for one. 2 stroke dirt bikes just got that this year. 4 stroke technology has been advancing every year. Most manufacturers haven't done shit to the 2 stroke platforms in a decade or more
Bischlarbo69 efi doesn't make a 2 stroke more powerful son and there's not a lot more u can do to a 2 smoke. Maybe bigger piston valves and porting. Just change with the times and accept that 4 stroke is the best weapon for a track
both bikes are great!!! I chose the CR. I find the new style of 4 strokes are amazing and the power is predictable and in troubled situations I find it pretty handy to have the knowledge, I guess with the 500 with lots of seat time a person would get to know the beast and be able to manage and know when its a holy shit moment or a HOLY F@$K moment please keep in mind I ride around the Rocky Mountains, now the area of both bikes that makes me chose the cr500 is the maintenance...… I am no mechanic its just the simplicity of the two stroke engine and the costs of keeping it in good order is simple for me, I did have a 2013 crf450r and what a great bike!! very easy to handle. power through out anywhere and anytime I needed it, now I don't trust myself enough to spruce up the top end so I took it in...…. when I seen the bill from the dealer I kind felt ripped off but hey it was understandable with what the mechanic had to do and the special knowledge and tools he had to get it right, with the 500 I do the top end myself anyhow im gonna look for another video that has better number...
yeah man my '69 Honda S-90 did 124 in the quarter at Englishtown Drag Race Facility back in 1971 when men were men and Honda 90's ruled man......was running 1 to 1 gearing with a titanium wampus bar so I guess you could say i was sorta cheating...
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I would still say its a win from the CR500. A bike from the 1990s geared for short sprint and it still keeps up with a modern bike geared for top end!
James Smith modern bikes are so overpriced and more show than go, performance wise , bikes havent come far at all since the early 90s, they just look gayer boring and a bit of handling improvement.
I prefer the rawness of pre mid 80s and there was a realistic price tag for what you bought, not rorted with overpriced delicate bs they have on them today, they have no character
@@TheFykle have you actually ridden a modern 450? i guarantee you haven't. the bikes now have come a long way. the new 450s and 250s are insanely fast, have way better suspension and braking.
kylehansenmusic good luck with your expensive rebuilds with your farting machines
The KTM isn't geared for high end it's power band is smooth throughout the entire room range I have the KTM 525 and it's instant power soon as you touch the throttle instead of having to get up to like 4+ krpm for the 2 strokes power to come on strong now don't get me wrong I was always a 2 stroke guy all I've owned till this KTM 525 it's a whole other beast and I've owned and ridden raced kx 125s cr 250s and loved them never even thought of purchasing a 4 stroke till I was at track riding my cr 250 and a guy there let me hope on his 2014 Yamaha 450 and I was amazed the bike felt so nimble and the power was always on tap climbing hills in 2nd gear 1/3 throttle I'd be doing in 2nd in power and in on my cr 250 4 stroke tech has come leaps and bounds from the xr days
@@TheFykle I've owned 3 250fs and never had to rebuild one. I put a piston in every year and adjust the cams. That's it. I have however blown up an 85 and a 125
All this shows is a comparison of gearbox ratios and final drive gearing, which will be quite different because the Cr is a Motocross bike and the KTM is a dessert spec bike! Also the Cr 500 can go over 100mph with the right gearing! The CR 500 engine makes more power!
joe davis how do you know it makes more power?? Your just putting that our there cos your butt hurts now
Don't mean to sound rude, but you clearly don't know much about engines my friend. Also consider that a Cr 500 engine can very easily be tuned to produce 80+ BHP.
joe davis your simply stuck in the old era of 2 strokes can't be beaten. Yes they can be tuned to 80hp but so can a 450 4stroke that's completely irrelevant u dipstick. A 4 stroke has it's power from idle to redline. A 2 stroke not so much. Just fukn move on old boi
Mate I ride 450's and I love them. You cant tune a 450 to 80 or 90 BHP you dipstick!! You would be lucky to add 10 BHP over stock with massive investment! I'm no 2T fan boy, I just like facts!!!
joe davis and the facts are the 5002t in this race got a hiding
So, KTM is just finally where Honda was 22 years ago. Cool.
Yup just way more$ and a pain to work on.
Yeah it also has 50cc more and still lost
@@b34tzz40 add a tooth on the front and drop 2 on the rear then things would be different
Yheeaaa!!!
Jeremy H. Exactly
Apply 25 years of engineering to the cr500 and I think we have found a winner, could you imagine if honda continued to work on the 500, injection, modern materials, any 2 stroke upgrades since then
Gear that cr500 with some taller gearing and it would cut the head off that Ktm
Nah bro
@@keva6856 Yes, son...
Kaplan motorcycle they will tell you too 500 will rr rrr rrrrrip your house of the foundation.
usually 4 strokes have faster top speed
@@juomahullu It depends what the gearing is.....
I like the CR 500 better
1:15 to 1:20 that harmonisation is beautiful
Mixing gas and hauling ass !! 2 strokes will always rule !! Dam you EPA......
git er did!!!!!
You're living in an old era the 450 is the fastest dirtbike made to date..... with that being said I love 2 strokes
Mike Norton the EPA is pretty important though.
Electric vehicles batteries have more pollution than Diesels. And what about the power stations ? There is not enough space on this earth to hide all the nuclear waist to recharge all the planned electric vehicles they want to build. Four Strokes makes more poisonous gas than Two Strokes. It's all about money.
Because I read in a USA motorcycle magazine that the EPA tested the motors and found that Two Strokes were cleaner because they only burn the oil half way. They must go back to the Seventies/ beginning Eighties and chech their files. But by now it would be burned out.
4stroke motors have done nothing but increase the price ofbikes that is why motox is in decline 10k for a new bike. Thats crazy
Yamaha is the only maker of 2 strokes
Jason Shea ktm and husqy and Suzuki kept making 2ts for a while after everyone else quit, don’t follow the brand so I don’t know what year though. The ktm 2 strokes r awesome my bro has the 300 and it’s got an insane amount of low end for a 2 stroke.
SEAT TIME I agree 100% $$$$$
2017 ktm 300 2stroke i own one jackass
New 300 two strokes cost nearly 11000$
Moto gearing vs. desert gearing....
Exactly
Why does everyone keep saying the KTM has desert gearing? So fucking tired of everyone using that as an excuse why the KTM won is doesn't have gearing setup for desert racing you obviously have never rode a 450 or 525 exc they just have the power available to pull hard even down low in a higher gear where as the 2 strokes don't have the power down low in low rpm to pull through the gearing I own and ride a KTM 525 exc it's just as at home on a mx track as it is in trail riding hill climbing or straight aways
@brdman the KTM is not a fucking desert bike for the last time! Know what the fk your. Spouting off about before using. It as an excuse or. Better yet just don't say shit you know nothing about. . desert gearing a d or it's a desert bike SMFH
The only thing desert about the Dakar ktm is THAT IT HAS. DAKAR IN THE NAME. And it's the name of a popular. Enduro race. That's mostly in the desert the only thing different. About a factory Dakar. Ktm 450 or 525 Is cosmetic they put a steering dampner on it. a billet gas cap a slightly larger gas tank and a GPS monitor and. A skid plate.That's about it they might put a softer set of knobbys on it tire wise the irc d5b's and that's a big maybe I'm just bringing that up because that's what's on my Dakar 525 rather than the factory michilins other than those things and a ugly Dakar graphic kit. They put on No? power adders. No changes in; Trans gearing no different clutch And finally last but I'm sure don't least the same damn sprockets that come on reg. 450s!!!!!!!a
@brdman The CR500 is an MX ...
I can still remember the first time I rode my 1985 CR500 and how insanely fast it was. I to this day don`t know why I ended up getting to busy at work and giving it to my kid....Cheers in WA ST
Has your kid still got it bud?
I bought my CR 500 in 1996. what a machine!! Lived in Grande Cache, Alberta, Canada at the time. It's right in the middle of the rocky mountains, and its dirt bike heaven!!
Wow 👌 Awesome, always wanted to live in a log cabin in the rockies 😅 🇺🇸
Still cool to see an old CR sort of hang with a modern factory Build. I bet both are stupid fast
Cr 500 ❤🤘🏻❤
Ride this bike ,
21 years and i love it!!!
The best powerfull 2 Strokes bike!
Ride hard ....
500 CR is the best ✔️🔥🔥🔥🔥
ANBS Kunks kx500 is the best!
gerardorockerman69 CR500 THE BEST OF THE BEST IN 2 KAWA 3 YAM 4 SUZ
Kx500 is the best.
Jfhfnhnbasaha@@gerardorockerman69
But it lost
People can say what they want, but my opinion is you just can’t make a better looking bike than ktm. Everything about it looks like an artist was commissioned to make it. Gorgeous work and I shall have one soon!
I had an 89 CR500 with a wide ration HRC transmission kit. The kit replaced 3rd, 4th and 5th gears - the top of 4th was equivalent to the top of the stock 5th gear. That bike probably would have left the 450 behind.
nah
No matter who wins the 2 stroke sound is euphoric 🤘
Amazing! I didn't think it was possible to get more horsepower out of an engine that fires once every two revolutions. The Honda is water cooled, too. I couldn't tell whether the KTM was or not. Hmm...So the four stroker, with all its extra cams, valve springs, valves and followers can be made to put out as much power thanks to incredible metallurgy. But I'm still thinking it's an insane number of extra parts!
The fact of the matter is JAPAN AND JAPANESE PEOPLE MAKE THE BEST MOST BAD ASS MOTOCROSS DIRTBIKES, STREETBIKES , CARS, COOL HOUSES , EARTHQUAKE BUILDINGS, SWORDS, MARTIAL ARTS, FOODS , SNACKS , I LOVE JAPAN AND I LOVE THE JAPANESE PEOPLE , IF I COULD LIVE ANYWHERE OTHER THAN USA WHERE I WAS BORN AND LIVE I WOULD CHOOSE JAPAN !!!
I miss my 500’s. All these years later and their still valid.
Why all the hating about gear ratios and so forth?? I love both of the bikes and think they sound amazing flying down the beach together on song! One is a classic and one is obviously newer and more refined.. who cares they are both beautiful bikes
So cool how this video showed absolutely nothing at all. Glad I wasted my time!
It shows a lot to Riders I guess you're just not a rider
Good for you dickhead
to those saying the ktm has newer technology, it's also 50cc less and has half the power strokes of a 500cc 2 stroke. so the honda had a serious advantage. i'm fairly impressed that it won.
EFI, better overall technology, and i bet it has more horsies on wheel than Honda.
@@ApocGuy honda can have double the horsies than the ktm but its verry much made docile for such big 500cc 2 stroke monocylinder.
It would overheat and kill the driver if it had more power than allready has.
Nice outcome. I grew up in the 80s so 2 strokes will always be my thing. Ktm aint no slouch but cmon. Honda rules. Where's my R 3 wheeler, im ready to rip.
Wide ratio 6 speed gearing
Vs
Close ratio 5 speed motocross gearing
Bad videoing doesn't show a true side by side race.
Desert Mountain Preppers no side by side comparison its cuz its a ktm add. The cr500 disappears in the fog it's so fast the KTM was given all it had but I could still see it
stupid fun, only one way to find out, didnt know jonny was doing the dakar this year. :) a 2011 ktm 450 rr Rallye passed me , while i (ktm 2012 500) was pinned in sixth ,geared to the max doing 160ks and the rallye kept pulling. Amazing bikes
The CR is faster , has stock gearing and sprockets . The KTM is set up for racing has taller gears
Fr3ShPRiNC3 it's for track so shorter gearing for acceleration around corners and stuff
christopher krause no to for the desert and to go as fast as possible, not a supercross bike
Fr3ShPRiNC3 cr 500 is a mans bike everyone knows it's the king along with the kx500
The ktm acTually is a close ratio gearing. So that excuse is invalid its also about 4 seconds slower on a good size mx track compared to a ktm 450 with same rider a pro rider racing both. So another excuse invalid
TaeTooCold if the cr is Faster why isnt it pulling ahead of the ktm 450? I have the ktm 450 dakar racer and motor and trans wise Its Sams as a stock 450 tahey did nothi g to motor or trans. Only diffrence is tank a steering stabalizer. An alum 1 peice skid plate and i believe possibly different rims or hubs and a "in my opinion" ugly graphics kit. You cr 500 guys cRy. And use every excuse you can why the ktm smaller discplament 4 cycle bike won i wonder how much worse you guys would get if the cr was racing. Ohh say a ktm 525 exc.
The sheer violence of the CR500 is what made it so much fun!
That 500 is looking sweet!
Kris Morel
Hell ya it does 👍
****This isnt a hate comment or bashing on either brand/rider/machine****
Both awesome bikes but the purpose built motocross bike with shorter gearing lost on a long legged drag race..... what does that really tell us? Put the KTM Dakar bike on the motocross track and the Cr500 most likely will win, while the suspension settings, extra weight and gearing ratio limit the KTM. Apples to oranges comparison in my opinion. Each is built for a purpose and each serves their respective individual purpose well! 👊✊ Ride on!
Adam Yoder
Adam Yoder the 450 4 stroke can rev out to 11,000 rpm and it has an extra gear. The CR500 depending on ports and pipe is usually out of breath by 8500 rpm.
Top speed the modern 450 wins every time.
Now. If you can put it down the 500 could out run it in a drag race depending on available traction.
Looks to me aside the gearing difference they were pretty much dead even the old 2 smoker 500 still king
Love how everyone is defending the 500 like it matters. They both are badass stupid fast bikes.
It's all in the gearing.
I still like the Honda 2 stroke better. It’s 22 year difference and the cr500r has 1 less gear. I like 2 strokes any day over a farty 4 stroke.
Apparently these dudes that say no “MX or Enduro riders ride a two stroke for a reason” has never heard of Graham Jarvis. 😅
Also all mx or enduro riders ride both 2 strokes and 4 strokes. Even Graham
Did this race on a rail bed in 2007 with a 525 exc...other buddy on a 95 cr500. I was on a WR400 fully ported, polished, high compression piston, gray wire cut...revved to the moon. The CR out accelerated us the first few hundred feet, then we started to catch up and eventually overtake him. We all got up to top gear, fullthrottle...my bud on the 525 thought he had it but my bike could rev higher than his, so I crept up and overtook him. This was about gearing and, ability to over rev. I'm sure with proper gears the CR would have taken us.
I didn't mention though, the XR650R that was geared for highway use totally kill all of us. He started out back but blew by all of us with ease....
Two stroke !
Great video !!!!
Lots of comments from both sides - blue smoke and 4 stroke. Winners and losers. Each defending their own. I came for the bikes. Both are awesome machines.awesome. I, too, thought the 500 would top out north of 100mph. I've ridden both blue smokes and 4 strokes. Both street and dirt. Always had fun on both..
Thanks for posting.
2 stroke: braaaaaapp!
4 stroke: poo-oooop lol
That's simplistic, realistic... and fuckin hilarious 👍🏽
Tf 2 strokes sound like EEEEEEEEEE
ha pussy 4 stroke sounds like woooo 2 stroke sounds like weeee
The sound of a cr500 is fucking amazing
Also did you notice all the starts were rolling starts which gave the 4 stroke an advantage. 2 strokes wake up IMMEDIATELY and off a proper mx start would've pulled ahead by a bike length out two and kept it on an track.
vetb882. Two strokes make power at higher revs! So... your wrong!
The cr500 looked like it jumped the stsrt
Sounds like a xr650 would have beat both if top speed is all that matters. Or a sportster
A stock ktm 450 can go 125 mph, completely stock :)
Marcus Bevzyuk not on sand it doesn't.
true.. but the 450 will smoke it on the track
dualsport rider
A stock XR650 doesn't beat anything. And a stock KTM 450 doesn't run 125mph.
Gear the cr 15 / 42
Moon gears. I'm running 15/46 on my 1990 500r and it flat pulls for days. Never has a 450cc 4stroke nosed me out in a straight line drag. In glamis or hardpac. And I suffer from the shorter ratio tranny that all CRs had from 85-90 91 on honda spread them out and there is a substantial difference in stock form. The late model tranny let's the big Rs power really shine.
@@staffyrubber23 moon gears?
Hardly fair with the 2 different gearboxes
Gear up the CR500 to Dakar Spec like we used for the Finke Desrt Race, then compare the two.
CR500's here were doing 170kph - 185kph in Finke spec (GPS calculated)
I own 2 well-built kx500's, (one in an aluminum frame), a well built crf450 and a well built rmz 450. The Kawis destroy the 4 strokes in any straight line race, especially up a steep quarter mile sand hill (we've raced many times). The 4 strokes are faster on a track (we've raced many times). Who still doesn't know this?
Exactly. It should win by more tbh.
“I LOVE the smell of two -stroke smoke in the morning “
I'm very surprised. I expected the desert racer to have a higher top speed due to gearing, but while it's hard to tell from the video angle it looks like the KTM actually beats the 500 everywhere. From the rolling start, the KTM jumps ahead. Give the CR500 a head start, and in a very short time the KTM overhauls it. That's what I thought I was seeing (hard to tell), and then they confirmed it in the interviews at the end.
A 2 stroke engine with a narrow power band needs a 10 speed box to keep it on the pipe. Yes, the 500 is so big it has "enough" power anywhere in the rev range.... but not enough to beat the 450. For that it needs to be on the pipe all the time, more gears needed... and then I think it should win.
But this is the same reason electric will beat 4T and 2T. It's even more extreme than the 450 in that it only needs ONE gear. CR500 needs 10 gears, 450 KTM needs 6 gears, electric only needs 1 gear to do roughly the same thing.
Just came back to say that after researching this the modern 4 strokes are simply more powerful. It's not gearing or other excuses, it's as simple as that. Stock cr500's dyno about 55hp only. Yes, there might be some racing bikes tuned up for more, but generally only 55hp. The ktm450 and 500 4 strokes make a bit more.
yamaha yz250 makes 48.8hp and 43.3nm, honda crf 450x does 44.8hp and 43nm. both are completly stock.
@@stamlight4 and that is completely bullshit
@@stamlight4 a 250f is nearly making that kind if power
WOW a 22 year old bike VS state of art modern bike.
Sad that the old Honda was even in the race.
One of these bikes will be in the shop getting worked on a lot!.....it ain’t the Honda!!!
777vikingfan it ain't the KTM buddy
777vikingfan
Uhhh, ya it will be, Reed valves bent open from holding it wide open for so freaking long. Bad move on a 2 stroke engine, they're made to flex open & shut frequently not stick open all at once for ever & ever... straight from a certified bike mechanics.
Two stroke piston gets replaced a whole lot more often than a four stroke.
Lol you are correct 😉
Old 2 strokes and reliability ant good boomer. But you were joking so thanks for testing me
How about adding a tooth to the front sprocket on the CR? Looks like its already geared up, not sure how much more you can get out of it on top speed... they are great on steep hills.
its already geared for top end
@@jimmytache963 Not as much as it can be though. It can be made just as fast or faster than the KTM
Different sprockets can play a big part in this.
To comment on most people's comment.... it isn't just a gear ratio there is real power needed to pull that gear too. Size of rider and air displaced is a huge one. I have an older Superkart motor. Pole position at Laguna Secain single cylinder 250cc class. World Superkart Challenge. Karl Reth's engine. I was untouchable in the desert running that motor! Ran it for years. four strokes get out on me by a few bikes and my HP overcomes them usually around 60 mph or so. Most guys run motor cross gearing and think they are fast. Man you have a lot to learn. BTW from other comments on other threads . Yes you cut a specific chain for specific gear ratio for specific wheel base length.. no steeering stabilizer and over 100 mph my 2001 cr250 is rock steady. Big guy, 10paddle, 250cc. Spanking yo ass. Oldsmobile, competition, sand highway at over 100mph through the whoops. Then slap more gear on for more mph at Ocotillo Wells.
I'd like to see this on a track ? Cr500 is a beast
Early 90's, all my buddies were rocking BA yz250 smokers, I was on a 82 RM465 smoker(I was the new guy), I loved the torque on Single track, but those guys were better riders, and they smoked me on the track, lol.
I dusted them in the sand, I then got a CR500 that ran on avgas, HOLY powerband, what a bike, sometimes it scared me, I only dared us it at the dunes. I'd love a modern 500 smoker with a great powervalve, frame, suspension and brakes. Changing a top end on a smoker is SO easy, cranks change easy enough too.
Current 450s, like a YZ450 OR ktm SX OR xc, THEY ARE FANTASTIC, times are GREAT!
1985 through 87 were the beastly cr500s. After that they were de tuned. An 85 would have beat the ktm
the 85 would have been left in the dust by the 450
I have ported kx65 it was on dyno 41hp i leave 450 4storkes in dust whit my kx65
@@elmeri5780 stfu stock 85 has 40hp on bakc wheel and ur 450 has like same amount but is weigh more
@@TJ-ev7wd you mom weigh more than rekka auto
@@elmeri5780 stfu kid tow stork always better!!!!1111!!1!!
Question, was that CR 500 motor ever used for shifter cart racing?
Put the cr500 up against a normal ktm450sx. Not the Dakar version. The cr500 is built for motocross, so put it up against a bike made for motocross. Not a bike made to get across the desert as fast as possible
Danny Kyle
Than you should take a KX500. King of the dessert
Danny Kyle be the same thing
Danny Kyle
Well said
That ktm is not a dakar desert bike lol thats just xcf 450 with a few boltons
Wow what a performance! In race a 22 years with the new bike technology! Honda it was great!
COOL!! This video has proven decisively via careful planning, use of awesome drone video footage and two skilled riders that I wouldn’t piss on a KTM450 if it was on fire, awful
The two bikes make a music chord at 1:19! Its an A#sus4 as far as I can tell. You can hear the two bikes glide into and then later out of that chord. its quite cool!
nothing will ever compare to the big 2 stroker's either you know how to ride them or don't 4 stroker's are for the lazy don't get me wrong their awesome but I grew up on old yz's hodakas and stuff though
I would love to lend my CR250 for a repeat. Guaranteed to surprise.
for real tho i would do the same with my 2000 kx 250 stock bore piped front to back vforce3 reeds an striker carb and i kept up to my buddys 2019 ktm 450 sxf witch is piped and geared
So your telling me there is a 20yr difference ?
Its around 30years because the cr500 engine design is from 1985-1987's era :) No exhaust valve or emphasis on getting the most out of the size. It's basically lacking development because they thought it was more than enough "as it is" back in the day.
Imagine if they upped the rev range with 1000rpm and made it have a modern piston to help with rotating mass speed increase, added an exhaust valve to allow for same low end with more top end. More power, same torque or more, same reliability, better fuel economy, "4-stroke like torque curve" etc..
2 hear both of these bikes wide open and the different sound is amazing ❤
But the cr would absolutely smash that ktm around a motocross track!!
are u joking
What was the gearing and sprocket ratios. I can make a 125 go faster.
Make the final gearing the same on each bike then repeat. Otherwise it's a void test. Weighing them as well would have been nice.
One of the old motocross mags. set a record at the salt flats on a old air cooled KTM 500 motocross two stroke at over 120 mph. In the eighties.
Simple answer: KTM has way taller, top speed gearing, and the CR has motocross gearing
Honda cr 500 2 strokes 👍👍👍
Love to see them run the same gearing an throw a kx500 in for good measure
Do you like MX?
@@XXX-cr5cf yeah love it
@@bradmarshall8363 do u ride?
@@XXX-cr5cf only cock an bikes yes
@@bradmarshall8363 cocks and bikes?
I mean in 1986 the CR500 produced 65 horsepower, 47 lb/ft of torque, and weighed 225lbs
Up until recently 450 four strokes made around 50-55hp and 35-37 lb/ft, weighing 240lbs
The bikes have just recently hit the 60hp rating
Who cares what the top speed of MX bikes are?
Fred Crider III 450s are better than 500 in MX and SX even..
YourFriendlyDirtBiker agreed
4 real
ted s Same for you. But people agreed with me, so deal with it, it's true, if you don't say what I said is true, then you're just a biased 500cc fanboy, now I love 500cc, but they are up to no match against 450s in MX and SX, hence why barely anyone uses it for racing?
Fred Crider III
With the same amount of work done to the CR500 as the KTM, I’m certain it would have won. The KTM has a modified trans with an added gear and various other mods that would ultimately help with top speed. A CR500 engine can make close to 80 hp with the factory cylinder, head, and cases if properly built.
i agree that ktm is factory racing built must be atleast 50k into it sink that into the cr 500 would be a very different story and outcome alot of these people have no clue what there talking about 4 strokes do not have more power lol everyone knows a 2 stroke makes 2x the equivalent power of a 4 stroke i know this as i also ride a 2000 kx 250 all done up and i also have 2 450r ones a 2005 and the other is a 2016 Honda of course lol a buddy of mine has a 2019 ktm 450 sx my 20 year old kx 250 keeps up to that thing maybe a quarter of a bike length away if that an im running a 48 tooth back an a 14 tooth front
@@brandonblackbeard5894 you need to realize again like you said 2 strokes are 2x the power meaning a 1000 4t should be equal to the 500 but that 450 beat it which should impress you
@@leperdthecrazycatx1dtm442 doesn't really impress me that modern technology is basically doing what old bike could do like 20 years ago lol keeps up if not beat modern bikes thats more impressive to me personally..also just because it's 2x the power of equivalent motor size doesn't mean anything gearing is what the difference really is you can have a 125 with with low gearing that would smoke most 450's out there
Would take any of the old school 500's from the late 80's early to mid 90's. Love their style.
KX500 being the ultimate IMO.
Always the best HONDA CR500 of course no comments 👏👌👍👍
Honda ❤ ❤ 💪
are both bikes stock?
I love Honda!
Nice harmony sound, 2 stroke and 4 stroke together.
Waste of time
it's just fun,,,,,,relax.
Guys the 450 is 2018, the cr500 is 22 years old, plus the 450 is a factory race bike with taller gearing
Sounds like an aero plane
cuz they are fast like them
I made a short comedy sketch against that wall at the end
People think 500 2ts are unbeatable. Clearly they havnt owned a decent 450.
They are unbeatable. 450's aren't as exciting, and don't have that intense power band. Therefore, 450 = beaten
450s just have the newest technology that's why there faster now all 4 strokes I should say have new technology really comes to the track tho thats where it shoes
jake hanus can u tell me the new technologys??
+Ethan Ellis EFI for one. 2 stroke dirt bikes just got that this year.
4 stroke technology has been advancing every year. Most manufacturers haven't done shit to the 2 stroke platforms in a decade or more
Bischlarbo69 efi doesn't make a 2 stroke more powerful son and there's not a lot more u can do to a 2 smoke. Maybe bigger piston valves and porting. Just change with the times and accept that 4 stroke is the best weapon for a track
Cr500 for the win change of sprocket size or gear ratio completely different race
Bullshit vid.
What were the sprocket sizes of both bikes?? That makes a huge difference
i could not understand a fucken word they said. i only speak English.
The CR has nothing to do with top speed. It's about who makes it to the next curve fastest. The CR wins every time.
neither match the speed of an old KTM495
jchavins nor my cbr900rr
1vs1 on my ktm 520 2t
jchavins
Maybe not, but nothing could fuck with my old 500 maaco. Hahahaha, freaky fast,,put this cr500 to SHAME!
Tommy 1 C. No nothing could destroy the mighty maico 700
both bikes are great!!! I chose the CR. I find the new style of 4 strokes are amazing and the power is predictable and in troubled situations I find it pretty handy to have the knowledge, I guess with the 500 with lots of seat time a person would get to know the beast and be able to manage and know when its a holy shit moment or a HOLY F@$K moment please keep in mind I ride around the Rocky Mountains, now the area of both bikes that makes me chose the cr500 is the maintenance...… I am no mechanic its just the simplicity of the two stroke engine and the costs of keeping it in good order is simple for me, I did have a 2013 crf450r and what a great bike!! very easy to handle. power through out anywhere and anytime I needed it, now I don't trust myself enough to spruce up the top end so I took it in...…. when I seen the bill from the dealer I kind felt ripped off but hey it was understandable with what the mechanic had to do and the special knowledge and tools he had to get it right, with the 500 I do the top end myself anyhow im gonna look for another video that has better number...
I had a 15-39 sprockets and a CR-250 cdi and went 115 on a road race
track on my CR-500
yeah man my '69 Honda S-90 did 124 in the quarter at Englishtown Drag Race Facility back in 1971 when men were men and Honda 90's ruled man......was running 1 to 1 gearing with a titanium wampus bar so I guess you could say i was sorta cheating...
Sprockets the same size on each bike?
Anyone know what year front fender and number plate that is on the CR500 ?
Any year cr 500 will smoke a brand new modern bike.
Regardless both bikes are sweeet. I’d be happy with either one. Both are still fast.
Hey what type of reed on the cr500 and is that a oem ignition on it