The New Space Race!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2024
- This week we're back with another special episode! David comes on to lead Marques and Andrew through a discussion about internet for all via Starlink satellites and some of the effects it can have on astronomy and observers of the night sky. It's a big topic but also a fun discussion with plenty of expert interviews.
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:15 What is Starlink?
11:34 Background on satellites being deployed
17:30 How they affect astronomy
26:25 Space treaty talk
30:38 Digging deeper
38:31 Canva (Sponsored)
39:44 Truebill (Sponsored)
40:50 Talking to more experts
53:10 Regulation
01:07:31 Storyblocks (Sponsored)
01:08:44 Ending discussions
01:25:07 Outro
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Special thanks to:
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Dr. Jeremy Tregloan-Reed: bit.ly/3kzhAeQ
Dr. Jonathan McDowell: www.planet4589.org/
Dr. Josef Koller: bit.ly/3zzRvjR
Robin Dickey: bit.ly/2ZrI9dP
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Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Great video and I like that you guys are talking a out the new space race! There were a few misconceptions though, such as the view of the 60 starlink satellites shown. Those were a line of just launched satellites, and they were in the process of orbit raising. They were so obvious because they were not in their optimal orbit yet, and once they get there they are much harder to see and won't be nearly as obvious in the night sky. Would love to see in interview with Everyday Astronaut who you've talked about on the podcast before!
I complement the research that one of podcasters has done, but his knowledge clearly is limited in that area. The (mis)information that the satellites can easily be visible in their final orbit is a good example of that. You guys could benefit from have someone with a better grasp of space related technologies fact-checking your contents in advance. EDA would be a good call!
Yup agreed. These satellites are not going to be visible by naked eyes
Definitely get @Everyday Astronaut on the podcast to talk about this!
I'd like to add several points.
1) Satellite internet will be mostly a winner take all market, there will not be dozens of companies competing. Launch is major cost for deploying a satellite constellation and Starlink, which is owned by SpaceX has the lowest launch cost in the industry. When SpaceX's Starship is completed it will reduce Starlink's launch cost by another 90%, enabling them to be drastically cheaper than anyone. Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin may be able to catch up, but only if they can get their reusable rocket working. Other than that, China will compete but everyone else will have to contract with Starlink, Blue Origin, or China to launch their satellites and then somehow provide lower cost internet to compete. It will be like trying to build a better Google or Amazon.
2) Elon & China are the best bet to prevent Kessler syndrome. Elon will invest in the satellite R&D to prevent collisions, setting the standard for the industry. He won't risk the mission to Mars to save a few bucks on satellites. Funding the mission to Mars is the only reason SpaceX is building Starlink to begin with. China has top down control and has shown it will squash companies that don't protect the CCP's interest. I doubt it will let a bunch of companies recklessly launch satellites that may threaten their GPS system.
If you actually listen to the podcast, the issue is not seeing them on the night sky. Its the Kessler syndrome or destroying out atmosphere
You guys should really invite people that actually follow SpaceX and all the other companies in detail. There's plenty of TH-camrs as well who could've told you so much more accurate info about everything happening with Starlink and SpaceX.
>> Suggestions: Everyday Astronaut, Marcus House, Scott Manley or just anyone from the NASASpaceflight channel. I'm sure there's plenty more, but they're the top TH-camrs.
Yeah, agreed. There are some points made here that are outdated or incorrect. Would've been nice to see some other youtubers that know more about these topics.
Get Everyday astronaut to the show!!
Yes. There is a lot of misinformation on this podcast. They need to stick with what they know. And if they want to get outside the ev/tech segment, they need to have an expert on that subject
@@rishi_sk Tim Dodd yes, or Scott Manley, or anyone from NSF
@@Tazman55x yea I specifically mentioned Tim Dodd because they have already seen him and discussed about him in an earlier episode.
Okay. The starlink satellite train is only shown for a few hours after launch. But you can not see them like a train after they fully deploy.
that is not true, I saw them in the sky last week when I was walking my dog, it was at dusk and they were only visible for like 15 min (from brazil btw)
@@brisotlucas correct, that would have been a recent launch of 60 that had not gotten to it's 550km orbital altitude which takes a few months.
@@goguen55 ooh ok, makes sense, I did not know there was a recent launch
@@brisotlucas atleast I think that's likely what you saw. The launch was September 13th/14th depending on your timezones.
You may not be able to see it but giant automatic telescopes can.
Haven't even started the podcast yet and I already know I'll like David's opinion in this already. We need more David, his Pixel video on his personal channel was absolutely phenomenal
Whats his channel?
@@ximeromero th-cam.com/channels/tWpk3VvhcusiTBAYU5l5ZA.html
Also you guys should really bring on Scott Manley, probably the most respected Space TH-camr and also an Astronomer
Scott Manley would be great on the podcast!! Would also love to see Tim Dodd the Everyday Astronaut.
Or anyone from NasaSpaceFlight. But Scott's work history would already be a fun episode :D
David changed his clothes!
...FINALLY!!😃🤭
Bro I was almost gonna ask him on discord, why he wears the EXACT same outfit literally every single day. And then I saw some photos of him in a different outfit, so I didn't ask him.
Idk if I'm just tripping but it looks like he's wearing Game Theory merch
I love how informatoive this episode was, compred to the usual banter and rnt episodes. Would love to see more like this in the future.
You need to invite Tim Dodd - the EverydayAstronaut!
Do more episodes like this! Focusing on one topic that is tech focused but drives a wider more interesting discussion
But bring someone with knowledge about spacex and a astronomical professionals. It’s way too one sided
Andrew's comment about intelligent life was everything
Totally geeking out here. I just love how the conversation just starts from ground zero.
This channel is sooo informative. Great educational content. Love MKBHD
The Starlink satellites are below Hubble, btw.
Only 20 mins in and this video is amazing. Learning a lot. Grossly underrated, deserves more views
Thanks Guys for this Podcast channel, This literally gets me through my work day every day !!!! Awesome
Just want you guys to know i love this type of episode. This is the kind of subject i wish i had a group of friends i could talk/discuss/debate/theorize about this kind of topic with. All my current friends eyes just glaze over when i start talking about this kinda stuff.
Great content, I love to watch your podcasts and the other videos, but for this one, in my opinion, it would have been great if you invited someone who has a better understanding of what Starlink/SpaceX is doing. Because the desire to start talking to you through the screen was through the roof :)
Also, Starlink is great not only for people from far off regions, which by itself is pretty significant, especially considering that in the end, it’s just a regular router that you can share with others, which brings the cost down, but also for people who got stuck in the area that got struck by some natural disaster or something like that and they are literally cut off from everything. The ability to just plug in that thing to a battery or a generator and have good internet access can't be underestimated in this situation.
I wish you could turn this into a daily morning show. Now that I work from home semi-permanently, this YT podcast works well. Especially in my timezone, it's usually published by the time it's morning where I am.
I'm thankful for this episode. It's not an issue that's talked about all that often in popular media
Love downloading podcasts on YT and listening them at work 🙌🏼
Loving your podcast guys, you’ve got so many awesome guests! Also didn’t know that the TH-cam video has chapters - could you add them to your RSS feed as well? :)
❤ This is the best waveform content ever imo, I loved the "history of internet" one and this one as well. I imagine it takes months to put together but its such a valuable and arguably ever green educational content that not many podcasts strive for, but if you did I'd watch every episode (it could be its own show). Love how its presented as well from "how much of the world doesn't have internet? Well guess what - good news. Yeah, but also no silver bullet" it takes you along your thought process. Superbly done 👌
33:42 was amazing😂Keep killing it man
I hope this gets some recognition. TBH I realise the "fear" astronomers have of Starlink and other companies making a constellation of satellites that block their ability to study space. But doesn't them trying to regulate it, block the ability of SpaceX and other companies to provide worldwide internet? Which is equally as important, and I'm not saying regulation isn't needed (on both ends), but I feel like this episode was saturated with the shortcomings of SpaceX's (and others) mission, without showing their affect on poorer countries access to internet - which in theory can create more innovators that would be able to work with (and not against) SpaceX's plan for global constellations in order to further astronomical acemedia/knowledge. I just feel you guys relied too heavily on the "dystopian" aspect of their goal without supporting the good things that come with it.
Open for discussion, plz reply with your thoughts :)
I completely agree with you! Definitely need an expert from the other side to play devil's advocate. They also left out lots of info about mitigation efforts and that once the satellites have reached there final orbit they are not visible with the eye. And that they are so low in orbit that even if a satellite does collide, it will de orbit on its own within a few years.
Loved the episode and loved that you guys went to the effort to bring in the voices of the astronomers affected, definitely want more of this! However you really should bring in people that know more about SpaceX or Starlink in the future. For one thing Kessler Syndrome, while absolutely a major problem that needs regulation or a solution in place going forward, will not be affected by Starlink much at all. Starlink satellite orbits are so low that without constant adjustment with their onboard ion engine they actually naturally decay and fall back to earth in just a few months. If a Starlink satellite is destroyed all that debris will fall back down to earth very quickly due to friction from the upper atmosphere. Even if the ENTIRE SATELLITE CONSTELLATION disintegrated orbit will be clear in less than a year.
Once again don’t want to be too harsh, I love that you guys are discussing this and overall thoroughly enjoyed the video and absolutely want more like this. Keep up the great work, guys!
We should be looking at Active Debris Removal - no trash left behind especially for higher orbits.
Quickly becoming my favorite podcast!
I watched this whole thing in one sitting. This was great.
that intro was convincing somehow !!
great dialog so far
How were you talking about Bezos and Branson flights and aren’t talking about Inspiration 4?!
Their guest just Googled the info, he's not someone actually following what's happening in this area.
@@ChristianMCI yeah, but they did talked about Bezos and Branson flights. I am suprised they’ve not talked about I4…
@@ChristianMCI exactly. They should have had an expert talk about this. It's just an amateur talking to other amateurs.
Maybe they shot it before the launch?
@@Tazman55x Nothing wrong with them being regular people discussing this topic. They're allowed to have opinions on space exploration too. Nowhere in this podcast did they say "we're experts and what we're saying is fact". It's literally just normal people going "here's what i think about what i see happening with this" and that's it. They don't necessarily NEED experts on the panel for that. There's plenty of other podcasts that offer that if that's what you want.
marques’ reactions to the different technologies were 12/10
I'm watching this on starlink right now, and it's great
That thumbnail looks soo cute! David, Andrew and Marques with those space backgrounds and giggles on their faces look like 5 year olds getting ice-cream!!!!!💗✌
I'm 100% for more satellites! There's so many places that don't have good access to internet, And I also think it'd be cool to see them up there. I think it would add to your camping trip.
I think this kind of topic would benefit a lot if you had a guest expert.
That’s a tough one in particular, everyone would benefit if more people were connected but slowing down scientific research is no joke. A lot of innovation here on earth has came out of astrophysics advancements.
If radio interference is a problem maybe we can think of smarter ways to mitigate the problem, like communication between observatories and satellite internet providers in order to switch them of when passing field of view. For visual interference it’s tough, you loose data in any case but maybe coordinated scheduling can help.
Love listening to these on the way to wrk
Is this a Radio Lab episode?
Fantastic.
Starlink satellites are not visible when they reach their parking orbit, just at dusk for a few days after they've been launched
Fasinating discussion.
Things Evolve & this issue will as well. Have some faith in man's ability to meet challenges as they present themselves.
Hi, there was a similar problem in commercial and non-commercial aviation at one point ( relating to the conversation about satellites and collisions) Naw we have TCAS mostly in commercial but now coming to private Aviation as well. Stops people from flying into each other in simple terms. Hopefully they will have something like this which will be a standard in the future of satellite technology.
Regarding satellite internet. Distance and inverse square law not only effects overall speed and throughput, but latency. Lower Earth orbit satellites have the capability to be faster than some of the long haul fiber links to Europe and Asia because they are so much closer. They also have the opportunity to have less switch hops, which further reduces latency. You will never be able to achieve the same speeds and throughput, but it does offer the opportunity for lower latency.
Hughes Net and others are far more "available", because they are in geo sync orbit, and they need far less satellites than Starlink to achieve full Earth coverage, but it is pretty slow and very very latent.
Love this episode. Just geeking out >>>>
Love the podcast!
33:45 i was not read for this 😂😂😂
1:23:25 Marques is built like a belter but still hocking Earth. Sabaka!
Epitome of one sided view “once all starling satellites are launched, you would see more satellites than stars”. That’s wrong in so many levels. These (or any) satellites are not visible by naked eyes!
Also starlinks are spread around orbit so only couple will be passing in your cone of view at any moment.
Bro watch the video, problem is not our vision, but astronauts and their expensive instruments
Great discussion. The question of limiting satellites from companies/countries is a little like our dilemma with the proliferation of nuclear arms. Some countries have that nuclear access and want to prevent other countries from wielding that kind of "control"/power. The global balancing act is both scary, treacherous, and necessary.
"It all comes down to basic physics... The faster you can move your wavelength, the closer you have to be to that wave" - David.
🤣🤣
Really cool to learn about a the practicality of throwing a bunch of high tech boxes up in space. At the risk of sounding a bit nonchalant about the concerns posed. I do think that it’s easy to look at what’s going on right now and say that it’s not enough. I think of big issues like this as gravitational objects in space funnily enough, that the closer we get to them and the larger they are, the more they will pull in and influence the course of public awareness, opinion and policy. So as this becomes more of an issue and draws more attention, through discussions like this, we will put forth a commensurate amount of effort to solve the problem.
This makes me want you guys to dive into more space stuff, specifically about the James Webb telescope!
For me, this is the best Waveform podcast. I love it's journalist style and a very thorough discussion of the subject
I believe you should have had a representative from Starlink to set the facts. You can only visualize the satellites with naked eye when they recently launch but once they are where they are supposed to be then you cant see them with the human eye. They are also super small which will disintegrate with 100% efficacy when re-entering orbit in the case that it crashes so it will leave no possibility of projectile incidents.
In regards to astronomers, the benefits of starlink heavily outweighs the cons experienced by astronomers. Accessible internet will affect billions of people's lives in multitude of ways whereas few thousand astronomers have to work around the satellites. It is a matter of perspective, there will always be downsides to everything when it comes to space and in this case, there is mainly benefits opposed to any cons.
33:30 was so cool
I really love this video, David really leads a good introduction into it and I really love the worries but also showing what kinda solutions should be considered and thought of as well
Love tht war of the worlds cut in. V clean
Amazing Episode!!
if you guys wanna talk space, you should do it with someone who knows their shit like Tim Dodd
This
Legit. A bit painful to listen to in all honesty... but great topic to cover
I don't know who edited this podcast, but this editor needs to be on the MKBHD channel.
Nice podcast dude.
I'd be so down for more space episodes
Really great topic to focus on, would have been better if a Starlink representative also told his views on the matter.
you guys missed the military aspect of it. 40k is just starlink, but the military is sending a bunch with spacex aswell.
I'm happy to have heard all this from you guys, very eye opening. It makes me think about how many others don't pay attention to this, and it's something we should. I loved this episode, I love hearing good people talk about these topics. Thanks for keeping me in the loop!
when me and my mom first saw the starlink satellites we thought aliens arrived. this was a couple years ago now and we just saw these crazy lights flying across the sky in a perfect line. it was crazy to experience for the first time.
Something to note about Starlink....it does require the user to also be within proximity of one of its ground stations to operate. Like you can't use this in the middle of the ocean, even if there is a Starlink constellation above you. They are supposed to be releasing a new version that does not require the ground base station connection.
That's not true anymore. The new sats going up have laser interlinks between them specifically for areas where there can't be any ground stations.
@@ChristianMCI from what I’m reading, this hasn’t happened yet. Most recent articles show Starlink is still setting up new ground stations as of August. I know it’s in their plans to do laser links between satellites, but not seeing anything as to when that’s happening.
And if we’re following Tesla and Elon as examples of promises and timing….it may never happen lol.
@@shanemooon The last Starlink launch had sats with laser links. I'd highly recommend watching Marcus House to keep up with everything space related. He does a really good weekly video.
@@ChristianMCI there is a little bit of ambiguity regarding this. While they may be sending up the new laser equipped satellites, it requires a full constellation of them to work. The 1800 satellites currently in the sky aren’t able to talk to each other. So with the new ones, at a pace of 50 or so satellites per month as published by Starlink, it would take another couple years before the need for proximity to ground stations goes away.
@@shanemooon well they're still going to need ground stations, just not in every region. It will help a lot with countries where they won't be allowed to operate. And I believe the last time it was mentioned, Starship would be able to send ~400 sats per launch, so it will accelerate once Starship is operational. They have the first orbital test most likely by the end of the year.
I think after few years Pixel lineup will have "satellite photography" instead of "Astrophotography"
Missed opportunity to bring on Tim Dodd, "the everyday astronaut"
This seems to be a winner take all/most market, so once Starlink is fully operational there wouldn’t be much room for Amazon or OneWeb to compete. China will probably launch their own regardless so that’s 2 constellations
this is good one
Super interesting guys!
Strap in boys. I brought some popcorn.
Would have been nice to hear from someone more knowledgeable about Starlink as they did with the astronomers. I appreciate listening to balanced and informed discussions otherwise all we hear are academics denouncing companies without proposing possible solutions.
Agreed. I didn’t like this episode. Too biased and misinformative. I’m actually really disappointed
1:00:58 actually, the infrastructure IS there and in most cases, literally underneath their feet, BUT companies like AT&T found that it's cheaper to pay a lobbyists to payoff a Senator or Governor versus put money into setting up a network in these areas. The wild part is, back to the "underneath feet," the internet that is State run in most cases is faster-due to not intentionally throttling-and cheaper than the top ISP's. So, 98% of these rural areas with little to no internet isn't based on infrastructure it's actually corruption.
This is a David Imel appreciation comment.
Episodes in which David is on are my favorites of the podcast, his explainer videos make this podcast really stand out.
One thing to note here is Starlink train of light is only visible during parking orbit to final designated orbit. After that they are not visible like this.
Quite a bit of inaccurate and missed information here, but the podcast is overall great and really enjoy the expansion of science and tech topics.
Care to shed some light on what they're inaccurate about?
@@RudeCanine you can't see the starlink satellites once they are where they are supposed to be. The train of them that is showed in the video is when they are launched and that is the only time you can see them with your human eyes but once they reach the point of orbit where they'll be "parked" then you cant see them. Also, there is no issue of projectile debris coming down to earth since they are super small and will disintegrate on free fall and are designed to be that way.
33:36 its totally a funny transition of MKBHD
13:07 Come on Marques, only 400 satellies?? Here at ISRO in India, couple of years ago we launched 104 satellies in a single trip. One single rocket took 104 satellies with it and the mission was a huge success!!
I loved this episode. Not sure how accurate the information talked here is though.
I live on a US Military base in Japan in a barracks (essentially a dorm building), and I have gigabit ethernet right now for $135 a month with Mediati. I see pretty good ping in most games
Airlines are already trying to partner with Starlink as well
Can these Starlight (low-obit satellites) not have pre-determined zones that they can't cross over... So a registered observatory can see through certain areas of the atmosphere... and also areas where rockets are launched.
10:45 ive seen these satellites in orbit here in brazil and boy, it was scary 🥴 i didn’t know what they were until i saw it on the news and twitter
When are the new shirt designs dropping? They look crispy!
Which shirts? Every thing here is available!
I love MKBHD!
This podcast was really well done, more David please
I love listening to these podcasts, but when it comes to more complex topics, you guys should invite/involve your viewers. You should still publish what you do now, but add one where it’s more of a live debate versus a recorded one. There are some fantastic ideas, and I think if you created more of a live atmosphere, it would elevate the channel. A combination of experts, students, and enthusiasts would make it more engaging.
They had one in a video couple of weeks ago I think, where they had done discussion on Discord Stage.
Low cost to orbit might be an incredible opportunity for students and entrepreneurs. There could be a lot of innovation in space. Internet isn't the only benefit of having inexpensive satellites and space cargo.
Because SpaceX has dropped the cost of rocket by 10x and is trying to drop it another 10x using starship, launching satellites will be something even Amateur astronomers will be able to do. So yeah they create a problem but also have a solution.
That could be interesting, though I suppose the clogging up of near-earth orbit space still remains as an issue
Low cost to orbit could also be incredible for universities and entrepreneurs to run experiments and commercial projects.
@@stormixgaming8389 the issue isn’t clogging it up, the issue is having objects that you don’t know where they are. If you know where they are, satellites can move around them and avoid debris. Eventually we will need a way to clean up LEO though.
@@andrewc662 yup, and if costs drop even further, some could even set up telescopes on the moon!
Where I live Hughes Net is basically the only option. 5G has just come and that's nice and I have an order in for Starlink.
Y'all talk towards the end how it might be a worth it tradeoff if it just meant not being able to take space pics
But that massively ignores how important amd crucial it is to be able to collect that data
Bard:
Here is a starting point for designing a framework for a global polling system for worldwide voting on policy based on the regional percentages of populations said policies are to affect:
**1. Eligibility**
* All citizens of the world would be eligible to vote, regardless of their country of residence.
* Voters would need to register with the global polling system in order to cast a ballot.
* Voter registration would be open to all citizens of the world who are at least 10 years old.
**2. Voting**
* Voting would be conducted online using a secure voting platform.
* Voters would be able to vote on a variety of policy issues, including those that affect their region specifically.
* The voting platform would be translated into multiple languages to ensure that all voters have access to it.
**3. Results**
* The results of each vote would be published on the global polling system's website.
* The results would be calculated based on the regional percentages of populations affected by the policy in question.
* For example, if a vote is being held on a global policy that would affect all regions equally, then each region would have an equal say in the outcome. However, if a vote is being held on a regional policy that would only affect a certain region, then that region would have a greater say in the outcome.
**4. Implementation**
* The global polling system would be implemented in partnership with governments and international organizations around the world.
* The system would be funded by a combination of government contributions and private donations.
**Challenges**
There are a number of challenges that would need to be addressed in order to implement a global polling system. These include:
* Ensuring that the system is secure and that votes cannot be tampered with.
* Ensuring that all voters have access to the system, regardless of their location or language skills.
* Building trust and confidence in the system among the global public.
* Overcoming the logistical challenges of conducting a global election.
Despite these challenges, I believe that a global polling system has the potential to be a powerful tool for democracy and global governance. By giving all citizens of the world a voice in the decisions that affect them, such a system could help to create a more just and equitable world.
Here are some additional thoughts on how to design the framework for a global polling system:
* The system should be designed to be as user-friendly as possible. Voters should be able to easily register and cast their ballots, regardless of their technical expertise.
* The system should be transparent and accountable. Voters should be able to understand how the system works and how their votes are being counted.
* The system should be fair and impartial. All voters should have an equal opportunity to participate in the voting process and to have their votes counted.
The system could also be designed to include features such as:
* A public forum where voters could discuss policy issues and learn more about the different options.
* A way for voters to track their votes and see how the results are developing.
* A mechanism for voters to challenge the results of a vote if they believe that there has been fraud or misconduct.
By carefully considering the challenges and opportunities, it is possible to design a global polling system that is secure, accessible, fair, and impartial. Such a system could have a profound impact on democracy and global governance.
Good ep
Marquess’ face when he heard “megapixels” lol
put on vr glasses, look up and see the stars through a satellite telescope via the super fast internet that you've got everywhere. Maybe the sky at night will be more beautiful with loads of satellites flying around?
As much as I love the phone & EV rumors and discussions, this absolutely piqued my interest and has to be my favorite episode to date. More deep dives into these bleeding edge technological issues would be much appreciated!
If you want to learn more about Space please check out Everyday Astronaut and Scott Manley. MKBHD has 0 knowledge on space, as demonstrated by this insane and moronic podcast.
@@FireLyfe agreed! Everyday astronaut is amazing!
@@FireLyfe I’ll do some deep dives and see what is vs isn’t over my head, but I will always appreciate these sorts of base level discussions that can get the lay person to understand some of the concepts & be able to do deeper dives themselves.
Is that a Game theorists hoodie, cool! And I think Marques is talking about Gravity and not Interstellar.
Can y’all do a story on transatlantic/underwater cable?
💀 😂 2:58
Marques thinking calculating 🤔 💭
Does launching some telescopes to GEO fully solve the astronomy issue? The cost of launch is falling rapidly, in large part bc of SpaceX
Eh, comparing Virgin Galactic, Blue Origin and SpaceX is not a fair comparison, especially Blue Origin. Blue is launching sub orbital rides to space for a few minutes, SpaceX has been launching for years and can land orbital class boosters, oh and they are building the world's most powerful rocket EVER in Texas right now.
"The inverse square law"
Oh yeah or as Michael Reeves calls it: "light get more dim when it more farther away"